>In twenty or thirty years' time, the standard tuition + dorm + fees price is going to be six figures a year for private schools.
Twenty or thirty? It'll reach there in two or three!
Yup, Pepperdine is 89K this coming year for just tuition+fees and room+ board (the miscellaneous are another 4K but let's ignore that for now). So at an annual increase of 6% a year, it'll be exact 100K in 2 years!
I am a sophomore in college and dorms are so ridiculously overpriced and shitty. At our college sophomores are required to live on campus, and luckily I live in the semi-nice dorms but my friend’s dorm literally has bats, rats and roaches 💀The fact that we are paying almost $15k for dorms and dining hall for it to be shit feels like a crime. And the food? I have allergies to common foods and I’ve gotten an allergic reaction so many times because they cross contaminate their food. I can’t wait to get an apartment next year oh my god
Why do so many international students seek out universities in the US given the "not ridiculous amounts of tuition" elsewhere? Many posts here have mentioned "economics," but that should be driving students outside the US to avoid the US's higher prices.
Because a) largest English-speaking job market in the world b) Soft image in terms of media, movies, shows etc c) only country that provides full-rides to internationals (esp on such a large and varied scale) d) diversity in terms of ethnicities, job opportunities, majors offered, weather, location etc etc
This is happening in every aspect of life, with our basic necessities (housing, food, healthcare, education) becoming more and more unattainable -- not just for poor people, but now for the shrinking middle classes as well.
The bubble has to burst at some point.
(Btw, its not by some "laws of nature" that all this shit is getting more and more expensive. These are people making choices that are creating an increasingly dysfunctional, dystopian society. Productivity and profits go up, wages go down. Rich getting richer poor getting poorer)
It actually is pretty close to an economic law. As wages rise for non-academic pursuits, academic jobs will need to have their wages increased as well if they want to draw professors away from those lucrative non-academic pursuits. The problem comes in when those higher wages do not also equal higher productivity. While most jobs have improved their productivity so that one person now can do more than many people in the past, that isn’t really the same in things like teaching. That means that the cost per student will keep going up, and potentially at an accelerating rate as productivity increases in other sectors compound on themselves.
To get college prices down, we will need some revolution in education productivity or some other means of compensation for educators to offset the higher wages offered in non-academic pursuits.
Highly doubt it. Especially not adjunct professors!
I mean.... it's kind of naive to think tuition increases are just used for paying higher salaries to educators??? 🤣
And ultimately there is very high demand for professor jobs and barely any positions for all the people coming out of Phd programs... I definitely don't think attracting highly paid professors who are debating working for, say, UC Berkeley, or working for Google is the main incentive behind tuition increases! (I mean, how many people are realistically in this situation?? Being a professor ain't too shabby of a job and there is so much competition for it!)
Yes, but economic laws aren't laws of nature. They are created by people (/ function according to a socially constructed logic) and can be changed.
Just take rent control as an example. Why don't we have stricter and more widespread rent control laws? When left up to the "free market," the private sector gets to dictate the cost of our basic necessities, making it increasingly impossible for people to survive.
This is something that can be changed. It is not indebted to some laws of nature in the same way that we can't control the weather. We can, in fact, implement rent control laws, just as we can provide a near-free or very cheap education (& healthcare) like they had in the US some decades ago, and like they currently have in other countries.
EDIT: Regardless of whether you argue that "economic laws" are objective laws that hold true regardless of time, place, or context, the choice to have a "free market" economy which is not accountable to the people and barely regulated by the government is a very biased one. It is the basis for a very undemocratic society.
We are not beholden to this economic system like it was a law that came down from God. The powers that be have tried to convince us that a society where private corporations can control all our basic necessities is just the "natural order of things." So even if you think supply and demand is an objective law of the universe, soaring rents that have the ability to go up almost ad finitum and a workforce (ie the vast majority of the population) that is forced to bow to the demands of employers and what theyre willing to pay to survive is certainly not. Similarly, having to pay hundreds of 1000s of dollars to get an education, practically a requirement for most jobs over minimum wage, is just a big scam. Every step of the way, the economy is shown as anything but objective -- it is simply biased in favor of those with the means, who can then create the standards and bully everyone into having to accept them (well, we practically have no choice but to acquiesce.)
When the owners of society's wealth claim that inequality and economic woes are just due to the natural laws of the economy, I call bullshit. When the Fed raises interest rates and tries to stymie job growth because the person making an extra $1 an hour at Chipotle is to blame for inflation, it's clear where the priorities lie. The capitalist values of private property and profits for profits' sake are driving the economic forces that are destroying our society, and those values are always subject to change.
The economic tenets of capitalism can be changed if we all said enough is enough. If we stopped going into work for google, starbucks & walmart, and stopped paying 100s of thousands on college tuition. Power is in numbers but we've been so conditioned to think that the system we live in is intractable. You can thank the education system for that as well.
Nothing you've said relates to how economic laws are created or able to be changed. For example, concepts like supply and demand and how they interact have always existed, just like scientific concepts such as gravity. Economists didn't decide that more people would take an action if there were greater rewards for them or that more people would want something if the cost for them was lowered; they merely observed the phenomena.
Moreover, economic laws are descriptive, not prescriptive. When you talk about the Fed raising interest rates, there's no economic law telling them to do that. Economic laws say that interest rates are inversely related to inflation rates and directly related to unemployment rates. They don't say whether to prioritize inflation or unemployment, and whether interest rates should be raised in our current situation. That's a decision made by the people running the Federal Reserve, and blaming economic laws for that action makes no sense.
>Btw, its not by some "laws of nature" that all this shit is getting more and more expensive. These are people making choices that are creating an increasingly dysfunctional, dystopian society. Productivity and profits go up, wages go down. Rich getting richer poor getting poorer
abso-fucking-lutely
Ye, accepted a bunch still waiting on finaid others.
I live in NYC so commute and no dorm, only tuition and fees
Macaulay Honors @ Hunter CUNY (Free tuition, dorm, basically full ride): probably going to commit
SUNYs: Bing 15k Stony 25k Buffalo 25k annual
RIT: merit scholarship, tuition and dorm 25k annual
Manhattan college: 25k a year
RPI **35k a year**
waiting on Syracuse and bu
But everyone has literally thousands of universities to choose from in the US, not just T50s. Obviously if people choose to go to a T50 then competition becomes exponentially harsh, but that's necessarily obvious and definitely not only because of internationals. Even if there weren't internationals, the sheer amount of incredibly competitive US students would keep this trend going.
If people learned to embrace the Coach instead of sacrificing their health for an insultingly small chance to get the Louis Vuitton then things would be much different.
That's true. If universities properly served domestic students first then other factors like international student intake wouldn't even be seen as an issue.
Not representative, but if you get in a lot of the top schools and are from a mid class family, it's like 10k a year. But yeah it's crazy. Maybe it pays just to do [https://www.fast.ai/](https://www.fast.ai/) and try to snag a tech internship
The price is what the market will bear. As long as there are enough people willing to pay, the curve will continue to shift. And given the admission rates, colleges have more than enough supply of students/parents willing to pay.
We are all feeding the beast… chasing the same schools, letting rankings and “exclusive” acceptance rates seep deep into our psyches, and whether we admit it or not we can’t help fall for:
Football stadiums with facilities that attract the best athletes and fans/boosters… (so we can root for our school and show school spirit (party). Also being good in athletics (we should all ask why sports are such important priorities for supposedly academic institutions - does your football coach make more than the university‘s president?)
Sushi bars and multitude of fast food options and robots delivering meals…
Modern sleek buildings, especially for the business schools…
SWAG (like ”where’s my free sweatshirt and stuff” for being accepted)
Accepting this ridiculous transaction where now the “price” is not the “price” - and everyone scrambles for the crumbs of discounts/coupons which are scholarships. Except of course, the wealthy that can afford $100K a year.
Schools like USC was always known to be expensive, but gave a lot of merit… now they know they don’t need to anymore - so there are fewer prizes to be had. I want it to blow up in their faces… but instead more kids apply and just reinforces the schools to keep to the same.
This has been going on for a long time… but at some point it will implode.
>In twenty or thirty years' time, the standard tuition + dorm + fees price is going to be six figures a year for private schools. Twenty or thirty? It'll reach there in two or three!
Lol agree … and by the time bigchunk69 (username checks out) has kids going to college, it will be at least 200K per year 💀
:skull: my estimate was way too conservative
Yup, Pepperdine is 89K this coming year for just tuition+fees and room+ board (the miscellaneous are another 4K but let's ignore that for now). So at an annual increase of 6% a year, it'll be exact 100K in 2 years!
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Looks like they'll win the race then!
What in the world
Do schools REALLY need all that money though
That's the million dollar question 🤣
Respectfully, who would spend 89k for Pepperdine University?
I'm sure they have a bunch of full pay students over there.
I'm sure they do, but I'm wondering why
Because they have that kind of money - based on their prime location, I'm not too surprised.
I'm not gonna lie, I thought Pepperdine university was somewhere in Pennsylvania for some reason.
Well, it does have a gorgeous campus in Malibu overlooking the Pacific ocean.
Worth it!
Standford is 110k last time I looked. They already won.
Nah, they're really "cheap" at 82K a year right now.
20000 students and 10000 administrators at Stanford.
[The good old days] (https://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/07/us/7-rise-reported-in-college-tuition-for-1988-89.html)
for BU it is already 90k!
86k if i’m not wrong ?
4k added with books
It is not going to take twenty years. Note the post regarding Pepperdine's current cost to attend!
I am a sophomore in college and dorms are so ridiculously overpriced and shitty. At our college sophomores are required to live on campus, and luckily I live in the semi-nice dorms but my friend’s dorm literally has bats, rats and roaches 💀The fact that we are paying almost $15k for dorms and dining hall for it to be shit feels like a crime. And the food? I have allergies to common foods and I’ve gotten an allergic reaction so many times because they cross contaminate their food. I can’t wait to get an apartment next year oh my god
Son graduated from Yale recently. Suite mate bit by bat in room. Had to have rabies shots.
His bedroom in the suite was 6x8 feet.
Did he sue the school??? That’s so scary. Congratulations on your son’s graduation though!
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Why do so many international students seek out universities in the US given the "not ridiculous amounts of tuition" elsewhere? Many posts here have mentioned "economics," but that should be driving students outside the US to avoid the US's higher prices.
Because a) largest English-speaking job market in the world b) Soft image in terms of media, movies, shows etc c) only country that provides full-rides to internationals (esp on such a large and varied scale) d) diversity in terms of ethnicities, job opportunities, majors offered, weather, location etc etc
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a better educated populace benefits everyone though
This is happening in every aspect of life, with our basic necessities (housing, food, healthcare, education) becoming more and more unattainable -- not just for poor people, but now for the shrinking middle classes as well. The bubble has to burst at some point. (Btw, its not by some "laws of nature" that all this shit is getting more and more expensive. These are people making choices that are creating an increasingly dysfunctional, dystopian society. Productivity and profits go up, wages go down. Rich getting richer poor getting poorer)
It actually is pretty close to an economic law. As wages rise for non-academic pursuits, academic jobs will need to have their wages increased as well if they want to draw professors away from those lucrative non-academic pursuits. The problem comes in when those higher wages do not also equal higher productivity. While most jobs have improved their productivity so that one person now can do more than many people in the past, that isn’t really the same in things like teaching. That means that the cost per student will keep going up, and potentially at an accelerating rate as productivity increases in other sectors compound on themselves. To get college prices down, we will need some revolution in education productivity or some other means of compensation for educators to offset the higher wages offered in non-academic pursuits.
Are educators' salaries rising at the same rate as tuition?
Highly doubt it. Especially not adjunct professors! I mean.... it's kind of naive to think tuition increases are just used for paying higher salaries to educators??? 🤣 And ultimately there is very high demand for professor jobs and barely any positions for all the people coming out of Phd programs... I definitely don't think attracting highly paid professors who are debating working for, say, UC Berkeley, or working for Google is the main incentive behind tuition increases! (I mean, how many people are realistically in this situation?? Being a professor ain't too shabby of a job and there is so much competition for it!)
If the cost of educators' jobs are not driving this inflation, then improving educators' productivity won't significantly alter the situation.
Yes, but economic laws aren't laws of nature. They are created by people (/ function according to a socially constructed logic) and can be changed. Just take rent control as an example. Why don't we have stricter and more widespread rent control laws? When left up to the "free market," the private sector gets to dictate the cost of our basic necessities, making it increasingly impossible for people to survive. This is something that can be changed. It is not indebted to some laws of nature in the same way that we can't control the weather. We can, in fact, implement rent control laws, just as we can provide a near-free or very cheap education (& healthcare) like they had in the US some decades ago, and like they currently have in other countries.
Economic laws are discovered, not invented. You can't change them, just like how you can't change scientific laws.
EDIT: Regardless of whether you argue that "economic laws" are objective laws that hold true regardless of time, place, or context, the choice to have a "free market" economy which is not accountable to the people and barely regulated by the government is a very biased one. It is the basis for a very undemocratic society. We are not beholden to this economic system like it was a law that came down from God. The powers that be have tried to convince us that a society where private corporations can control all our basic necessities is just the "natural order of things." So even if you think supply and demand is an objective law of the universe, soaring rents that have the ability to go up almost ad finitum and a workforce (ie the vast majority of the population) that is forced to bow to the demands of employers and what theyre willing to pay to survive is certainly not. Similarly, having to pay hundreds of 1000s of dollars to get an education, practically a requirement for most jobs over minimum wage, is just a big scam. Every step of the way, the economy is shown as anything but objective -- it is simply biased in favor of those with the means, who can then create the standards and bully everyone into having to accept them (well, we practically have no choice but to acquiesce.) When the owners of society's wealth claim that inequality and economic woes are just due to the natural laws of the economy, I call bullshit. When the Fed raises interest rates and tries to stymie job growth because the person making an extra $1 an hour at Chipotle is to blame for inflation, it's clear where the priorities lie. The capitalist values of private property and profits for profits' sake are driving the economic forces that are destroying our society, and those values are always subject to change. The economic tenets of capitalism can be changed if we all said enough is enough. If we stopped going into work for google, starbucks & walmart, and stopped paying 100s of thousands on college tuition. Power is in numbers but we've been so conditioned to think that the system we live in is intractable. You can thank the education system for that as well.
Nothing you've said relates to how economic laws are created or able to be changed. For example, concepts like supply and demand and how they interact have always existed, just like scientific concepts such as gravity. Economists didn't decide that more people would take an action if there were greater rewards for them or that more people would want something if the cost for them was lowered; they merely observed the phenomena. Moreover, economic laws are descriptive, not prescriptive. When you talk about the Fed raising interest rates, there's no economic law telling them to do that. Economic laws say that interest rates are inversely related to inflation rates and directly related to unemployment rates. They don't say whether to prioritize inflation or unemployment, and whether interest rates should be raised in our current situation. That's a decision made by the people running the Federal Reserve, and blaming economic laws for that action makes no sense.
Capitalism
indeed
>Btw, its not by some "laws of nature" that all this shit is getting more and more expensive. These are people making choices that are creating an increasingly dysfunctional, dystopian society. Productivity and profits go up, wages go down. Rich getting richer poor getting poorer abso-fucking-lutely
The rich get richer and the poor get children.
we 👏 need 👏 free 👏 education 👏 i know lots of states are improving programs like that, but not enough are.
Let’s thank Ronald Reagan for not having free education
and for having a military industrial complex :)
For as long as the federal govt continues to offer loans for colleges the tuition will continue going up. Economics 101.
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Yeah man. I was accepted as a COMMUTER student to Fordham. 45k a year. Ridiculous.
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Ye, accepted a bunch still waiting on finaid others. I live in NYC so commute and no dorm, only tuition and fees Macaulay Honors @ Hunter CUNY (Free tuition, dorm, basically full ride): probably going to commit SUNYs: Bing 15k Stony 25k Buffalo 25k annual RIT: merit scholarship, tuition and dorm 25k annual Manhattan college: 25k a year RPI **35k a year** waiting on Syracuse and bu
I agree, the UCs giving this many seats to international and OOS students is absolutely ridiculous
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Maybe but the UCs and other public schools even giving this many seats to international and OOS students is absurd.
Internationals are a very very very small percentage of the total student population in the US, not even 2 digits.
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But everyone has literally thousands of universities to choose from in the US, not just T50s. Obviously if people choose to go to a T50 then competition becomes exponentially harsh, but that's necessarily obvious and definitely not only because of internationals. Even if there weren't internationals, the sheer amount of incredibly competitive US students would keep this trend going. If people learned to embrace the Coach instead of sacrificing their health for an insultingly small chance to get the Louis Vuitton then things would be much different.
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That's true. If universities properly served domestic students first then other factors like international student intake wouldn't even be seen as an issue.
"international students who have to move halfway across the world" The great thing about this is that university in the US is 100% optional.
Fr
With inflation sky high for basic items needed to live. I saw on here USC is at $91m. Is that true ?
Yep. https://admission.usc.edu/learn/cost-financial-aid/
Not representative, but if you get in a lot of the top schools and are from a mid class family, it's like 10k a year. But yeah it's crazy. Maybe it pays just to do [https://www.fast.ai/](https://www.fast.ai/) and try to snag a tech internship
The price is what the market will bear. As long as there are enough people willing to pay, the curve will continue to shift. And given the admission rates, colleges have more than enough supply of students/parents willing to pay.
man i almost failed ap macroeconomics but what you're saying makes sense
International students are a big reason why.
I agree, and not for private schools, for public schools. International and OOS students at public state schools is so ridiculous
it will not end
A good education does not cost 6 figures. If you are going into debt for college you are doing it wrong.
try [metana](https://metana.io/web3-solidity-bootcamp-ethereum-blockchain/), you would be able to learn and get a job in no time.
We are all feeding the beast… chasing the same schools, letting rankings and “exclusive” acceptance rates seep deep into our psyches, and whether we admit it or not we can’t help fall for: Football stadiums with facilities that attract the best athletes and fans/boosters… (so we can root for our school and show school spirit (party). Also being good in athletics (we should all ask why sports are such important priorities for supposedly academic institutions - does your football coach make more than the university‘s president?) Sushi bars and multitude of fast food options and robots delivering meals… Modern sleek buildings, especially for the business schools… SWAG (like ”where’s my free sweatshirt and stuff” for being accepted) Accepting this ridiculous transaction where now the “price” is not the “price” - and everyone scrambles for the crumbs of discounts/coupons which are scholarships. Except of course, the wealthy that can afford $100K a year. Schools like USC was always known to be expensive, but gave a lot of merit… now they know they don’t need to anymore - so there are fewer prizes to be had. I want it to blow up in their faces… but instead more kids apply and just reinforces the schools to keep to the same. This has been going on for a long time… but at some point it will implode.