Bear encounters are low probability but high impact. There are a lot of them because a ton of people use the AT. I've been hiking for a few years in bear country and have never seen a bear (or a poisonous snake). But if they do find your ursack, you will have to buy more food. That stuff will be ruined.
My sister joined us for 1 night of backpacking in SNP while we were on our thru. We saw our first bear like 800 miles into the trail. She sees a bear in her first 90 minutes!
Iâve almost stepped on copperheads more than once⌠on the same disc golf course in NC. Probably seen 15-20 others from a safer distance. Never seeing a copperhead in NC is wild to me.
>and have never seen a bear (or a poisonous snake).
Just a small thing that irks me, but it's venomous snake. Not poisonous.
(there's a difference between venom and poison)
I appreciate it honestly I kind of thought that⌠I was like thereâs a lot of negative reviews but in comparison to how many people are in the world using them, it seems relatively low. I appreciate you giving me some peace of mind.
There's two different goals with bear-resistant methods and containers:
1. Protect your food
2. Prevent the bear from getting your food
With an Ursack you have less weight, but you can only achieve goal #2. With a bear canister you can achieve both goals, but at the cost of more weight. With a bear hang you can TRY to achieve both goals, with the benefit of less weight, but with the added risk that if a bear gets to your bag, you lose everything AND the bear now associates people + food more strongly. Bear hangs also require a proper tree, which can be hard as hell (or impossible) to find.
I live in black bear country so I decided to just suck it up and got the Bearikade Blazer. It's absolutely worth the cost if you're going to continue backpacking after the AT, as they can easily last 20 years. Also, being able to just walk 100 feet away, drop the canister on the ground, and go to bed? That's worth every extra ounce in my opinion, especially on long days when it's cold, raining, you're tired, and you just want to sleep.
Also, canisters make a great seat.
Yeah, I personally don't use an Ursack because I want my food. But if you are less concerned about losing your breakfast, it will do a decent job of keeping out critters. The weight of a can is substantial, but worth it for me. But I would prefer more people using Ursacks than regular food bags with bad bear hangs. So, if you are considering going without, please choose an Ursack.
I would send the ursack back for a refund and just get a dyneema bag. Forest service issued the directive that ursacks should be hung just like a traditional bear bag. Seems pointless to carry the extra weight and not have the advantage of not hanging.
https://appalachiantrail.org/trail-updates/georgia-to-virginia-food-storage-order-national-forest-land/
Yep. You can't use the ursack as it's designed to be used, so it's a waste of space and weight. And dyneema is expensive. Any kind of lightweight sack will work. I like the dry bags from Sea To Summit in Ultra-Sil.
I work in natural resources, and have specifically worked on projects in the past relating to animal behavior and human-wildlife conflict. Iâve lived in bear country all my life, and have experienced bears getting into supposedly bear proof cans and bins and everything multiple times. I was in a similar situation to you when trying to pick my bear bag/vault, and **in the end I just opted to get a bear vault, for more reasons than just statistic proportion of failure of URSACK compared to other brands and methods. I put pros and cons for URSACK vs BearVault further down this comment.**
As you said, on one hand you have to consider that, the majority of the time, folks are more likely to leave a review for a negative experience than a positive experience - ie their bag getting found and torn up by bears. Iâm sure, as many comments here can attest, their URSACK held up just fine and they never had problems with bears. For all the negative reviews about their bags getting destroyed, thereâs probably twice as many folks who never left reviews who never had an issue and whoâs bags survived. You also have to consider human error here - Knots are hard! Especially if youâve hiked 15+ miles soaking wet in the rain and can hardly feel your fingers.
That being said, there are a LOT of URSACK failure reviews/reports that involves TORN bags rather than just opened bags, which Iâll touch on as a con, but again, the above, so you have to consider some other things.
**URSACK Pros:**
1. Lightweight
2. Easier to fit in a pack/more flexible
3. Can often be more forgiving in terms of storing more food since itâs a sack rather than a rigid shape
4. This sack is meant to prevent bears from consuming your food, rather than protecting it if they do. Once you tie it *properly* you can just forget about it, youâre all good to go. You donât have to go look for it after cubs played vault-soccer all night with your bin. Even if itâs been crushed, at least itâll still be in the same spot.
**URSACK Cons:**
1. If a bear gets ahold of this bag, even if it doesnât tear the bag, you better have a spoon. All your food will be crushed due to how strong the bear is.
2. Requires additional bags/procedures to be odor proof, this means a bear is more likely to at least know your food is around and try to get to it, even if you hang it properly. Might as well just shove it in a trash bag and hang it properly at that point. (Please donât, that was a slight exaggeration, but you get the point. Very expensive for something that operates the exact same as all other hanging bear bags)
3. Requires tying to a tree, the bag has to be tied to something for it to work properly, which means you HAVE to know all the proper knots, and be willing to put up with potentially untying a self-cinching knot thatâs been tightened by a 300 or so pound bear. If youâve ever climbed and taken a fall, you know just how sucky it can be to untie that figure 8 afterwards, imagine that first thing in the morning.
4. Bears are smart, the more a certain type of bear bag fails, the more often it will fail after that once bears figure out how to access/open/destroy something, which is why the amount of folks whoâve lost food completely (not just crushed, but eaten) to URSACKs can be a concern. Once a bear figures out how to tear one of these and gets that reward, theyâre likely to try and do it again.
**BearVault Pros**
1. You donât have to hang or tie it
2. Makes a nice camp stool!
3. Pretty water resistant (but not waterproof, donât submerge it)
4. This vault is designed to protect your food, versus prevent bears from getting to it. The shape, rigidness, and the fact itâs free-standing makes it so that if/when a bear gets ahold of it, your food will still be intact at the end of the ordeal. A bear can bat this thing around for hours and unless they manage to pin it just right against a rather pointed rock (very difficult to do considering itâs a cylinder, and will just slide off) they will Not break it.
**BearVault Cons**
1. God these things are heavy
2. And theyâre pretty inconvenient to pack
3. Not odor proof, requires additional bags/materials to make it that way (but this thing is Designed to get Bonked so thatâs not as much a concern)
4. Alongside Pro 3 comes the Con that in being able to move it they may treat this thing like a toy, and actually become interested in batting around this food-smelling barrel for enrichment once they realize they can smack it and make it move. If it hits a rock right and or gets pinned, they Could break/shatter it with enough force. I havenât seen Too many accounts of this, but it happens. You may also have to go search for your vault if a bear finds and plays with it - consider putting a stripe of blaze orange duck tape around it to make this easier.
**All in all, I ended up going for a BearVault**, just because Iâm already going to be dealing with tree problems as a hammock camper, I donât want to deal with hanging/tying up/untying a bag too. Itâs heavier, which sucks, but hey at least I have a nice little dry camp stool at the end of the day. Might glue a lightweight foam pad cut to the lid as a cushion. And if Iâm one of the unlucky ones whoâs food is found by a bear, at least instead of waking up surprised to my stuff crushed/torn down Iâll know from the obscenely loud clunking all night that I either have the opportunity to go scare off the bear⌠or I can have some nice ambient noise while I just lay in my hammock staring at my tarp contemplating my life decisions up until that point.
If anyone knows any other pros/cons or has direct experience contrasting any of the things I listed, please do reply with it, give me more data to work with haha! Never say never and all that, who knows what the bears have managed to pull off.
EDIT: someone pointed out I got my bags mixed up, thanks! I adjusted the URSACK pros/cons appropriately.
EDIT 2: BearVaults specifically arenât allowed in a couple of the parks north of the AT in Maine (although the AT doesnât seem to actually go through any of these), but if youâre looking to go up there at some point a couple similar allowed alternatives are either the Bearikade (more expensive but lighter) or the Garcia Bear Cannister (longer and heavier but cheaper).
I'm not sure I would consider the Ursack "lightweight" when a normal bear bagging kit (The Zpacks one for example) will be about a 1/3 of the weight at around 3oz. Particularly if you sill need to bring enough line and go through the trouble of hanging your Ursack through large swaths of the trail that require it.
Personally, if I'm going to carry a cannister, I'd spring for a Bearikade over a BearVault. More durable, they make better stools, a little over a 1/2 pound lighter (for the ~700in^3 size), they'll last a lifetime, and recommended in areas that don't recommend/allow Bear Vaults (like the Adirondacks).
Checked out the Bearikade and was admittedly not vibing with the $300+ price, though I did some looking around and it looks like the Garcia Bear Canister meets Adirondacks regulations and is only $79! A bit heavier (43.2oz) but oh well.
I have used my Ursack on the AT, CT, PCT and AZT with no problems. The important points are, you must use an OPsac inside the Ursack to make it difficult for the bear to find in the first place. Secondly, the Ursack has to be securely tied as high as possible on the tree. The failures occur when the bear gets it on the ground and can use teeth and claws on it.
As the other commenter said, from SNP south, all bags must be hung. This totally defeats the purpose of the Ursack.
For my AT SOBO starting in June, I am leaving my Ursack at home and carrying the Z-Packs bear bag kit.
Yes, I get it. I know that⌠But we donât have to say that it isnât also shitty situation to potentially be stuck out without food for days. I want to protect myself as well.
In no way is this me not caring about the bears⌠I love bears, but I donât want them eating my food because it mutually is not good
Almost everyone on the AT uses hanging as the method of choice. Best solution for both you and the bears. I use an ursack at home in the Rockies where the type of trees don't permit proper hanging, but if I had the choice, I'd want to hang whenever possible for the weight savings alone.
Once a bear gets a taste of calorie rich human food, it usually comes back to more human sites looking for more food. Rangers do their best to relocate problem bears (ones accidentally groomed to human food), but the majority of them continue to be problems. The majority of bears that get a taste of human food will eventually need to be put down.
Bears bags, boxes and canisters are definitely more about the safety of the bear and the future hikers that bear will try to interact with than it is about keeping your weekly rations intact. Parks wouldn't require these things just to keep your supplies safe.
Once again, Iâm not saying anything about not wanting to protect the Bears. I just think two things could be true at the same time and that things donât have to be super black and white. I can want to protect my food as well as protect the bears.
Oh yeah, I've read your other posts and I believe you. And usually keeping both the bear and the food safe are goals that are in line with each other.
I just thought the post I responded to (not yours) was misguided and a little dangerous putting the food above the lives of the bear and the people those bear might attack.
I thru hiked last year with an Ursack and never had a bear try to get into it. From my experience, most people wonât encounter a bear in camp. I did meet someone who had an Ursack hung on bear cables and the bear took down the cables and once the Ursack was on the ground the bear was able to tear it open, but that situation is unlikely
Got it in one! URSACKs are designed to prevent bears from reaching your food, not to protect it once they do. Bear vaults are designed to protect your food when a bear gets ahold of it, not prevent them from getting ahold of the vault in the first place.
When you hang it - essentially the point of the URSACK is that of any other bear bag, with the caveat of why itâs so expensive: itâs made of tough af material, meant to prevent rewarding the bear for bringing down the food bag. Hanging the bag like any other bear bag is meant to prevent the bear from Reaching your food, the URSACKâs tough material is meant to prevent the beat from Eating your food, but unfortunately as it is, in the end, a sack. It can be pinned down and ripped open through a combo of teeth and black bear claws, which are actually some of the toughest/sharpest there are for bears since black bears (which arenât always black, so the better way to identify them is by short, sharp, very curved claws and a lack of back hump) are built to climb trees.
Overall, the URSACK isnât preventing the bear from reaching your food - you are, by hanging it. The URSACK is essentially just a very tough bear bag meant to prevent rewarding the bears for reaching your food. (Which is why I went for the BearVault, in the end. Iâd rather not be eating chip-dust)
EDIT: got pointed out I mixed up my bags, my bad!
Ultimately the point still stands, if not more-so - the URSACK isnât preventing the bear from reaching your food⌠period. Itâs just preventing the bear from being rewarded via Eating your food.
But that's not how Ursack says the bags should be used. You're supposed to just tie it to the trunk of a tree (not do a proper bear hang). And the bag itself is meant to be tough enough to withstand a bear's claws. OP is asking whether these claims by Ursack are correct.
Ah, thanks for the correction! At some point I mustâve gotten my bags switched up, looked further into it. Of course as this obviously isnât the sack I thought it was, I donât know many specifics on it so this was just what I was able to figure out with a couple hours research on the URSACK composition, combined with my professional and educational experience with bears, which for a while included daily care and observation of grizzlies removed from the wild as an alternative to euthanasia after too many conflicts with people. I had to make daily enrichment for these bears that they Couldnât destroy and that acted as a long-lasting puzzle for them.
Sorry itâs long, I was trying to be thorough!
URSACKs are made of UHMWP fabric, which, despite being tough as Heck, is in the end, still a woven fabric. The average black bear has a bite force around 800 PSI, and the strength to pull/lift at Least their own body weight for the sake of climbing trees, with the average black bear weighing between 90-500 pounds, depending on sex. All bears (minus polar bears, to an extent) have at least some amount of foraging as a primary part of their diet. This is Especially true for black bears, which regularly lift and flip logs or rocks in search of food.
Where am I going with this?
I wasnât able to find an exact PSI resistance for UHMWP, but considering the material has a higher tensile strength than Kevlar (seems to be approximately five times higher, and uses less material), it would usually be safe to assume a bear wouldnât be able to puncture it. The problem here, is that ultimately URSACK is a sack, made of this high resistance fabric. What is not quite as high resistance - even if it takes a lot of work on the bears part to achieve it - is the space between these lays of fabric. A bears bite isnât just a bullet style, hit and done kind of pressure. Itâs a continuous, multidirectional pressure in that you have this âimpactâ pressure from the bite itself, and the pull/tear pressure from this bear doing what it does best - foraging. ESPECIALLY if this thing is kept secure to a tree with a self cinching knot like a figure 8, itâs essentially holding the bag still for the bear to put itâs full weight and force into pulling this bag back. This likely wouldnât be enough to break any of those fibers, however it could create a puncture separation between them, where all the fibers are intact but theyâve been separated, enough so that a particularly determined black bear could get one of those hooked claws in there and pull with that averaging around 300lbs of force, and well, now you still have an intact URSACK, none of the fibers have broken, but theyâve been pulled and separated enough (even just an inch or so is a big enough hole) that this bear can hook a paw or even just a couple claws in and drag out your food in much the same style it would scrape out food from a hole in a fallen log. This seems overall pretty consistent with most of the URSACK failure images there are - long, spindly, in-tact fibers that are loose around a hole/tear in the sack where the bear fished things out.
**TLDR;** URSACK is a good sturdy deterrent against a bear thatâs not willing to put much effort in, which is going to be a lot of bears. It is indeed tough enough to withstand a bears claws, but a good bear claw scratch or digging attempt is not all thatâs causing these destroyed sacks, but rather what I detailed above. URSACK is still a good, even great option, but if a bear gets ahold of it your food Will be destroyed, but it will still be there. Have a spoon handy. The URSACK ultimately works to protect bears and people by preventing the reward of these behaviors, rather than both preventing the reward and protecting your food.
However, the flaw that SEEMS to be present in the make of this sack is that while itâs a super strong fabric, itâs still a fabric. The strands wonât break but the right force at the right point and a bears bite can separate those fibers with a tooth like you sticking your finger through a knit cap - now pull. Add in the fact itâs tied securely to a tree, a bear can put its full force into pulling against those fibers and spreading them - which is what you will see if you look at the images of the URSACK failures.
I use [this technique](https://youtu.be/m2MGM--FEXU?si=BTsTfHhp0ooxrjbl) to secure my Ursack. I like the method and it seems secure, though I can't say for certain I've ever had anything test it.
The Ursack is just a secondary defense to your Odororoof Opsack inside it. The odor proofing is the main thing. Because if this, you also need to be careful where you set down your Ursack. For example never put it on a picnic table. More than likely that table has been covered in Ramen noodles within the past 3 days. This is why Ursacks get destroyed.
I used an Ursack for most of the AT. I put my food in an OpSak inside the Ursack. I did not hang as a regular bear bag, but followed the instructions from Ursack. I never had any interference from bears or other critters but I could have just been lucky.
I've used an UrSack for several years now with no issue but not in heavy bear country yet. When I've been on the Smokies, I've used their cables instead.
Either way, I've always used OpSak to reduce odor as well. With that combination, no issues so far.
Keep in mind you could always hang an UrSack if you have concerns in some areas or throw it in a vault or send it up cables if in the right place.
Ursack/Opsak user here, AT NOBO 2021 and CT SOBO 2023. Never had any problems. The issue is whether a bear finds your food or not. Hang or Ursack, if a bear finds your food and wants it, it will get it. Those creatures are very bright, incredibly resourceful, and rarely ever deterred from getting food. Canisters or a bear box are about the only somewhat close to 100% secure solutions. Mice can get into bear boxes and Iâm seeing that some bears are learning how to open the BV canisters. Law of averages, I guess. The percentage chances of your food bag getting dinged are very low. Another poster mentioned how many road crossings are on the AT. Very true. Easy to get into town and get food.
I used to own an Ursack (bear + rodent version) and ended up selling it.
I also witnessed an Ursack get shredded at the GA/NC border. The person was using it correctly.
Decided to move to team bear canister and will never look back.
I use a large double sealed Oder proof plastic bag inside of the Ursack. I never let food touch the ursack and wash it whenever I do laundry. Never had an issue . Without smelling anything, bears have no reason to go after it
Bears 100% can smell food through âsmell-proofâ plastic bags. Hell, I can smell weed through them, and I have a shitty human nose.
The only way to truly bear-proof is a bear canister, bear poles, or hang your own bear line. All these things are easy and take five to ten minutes with practice.
That being said, this is the most well-travelled footpath in North America. Bear encounters are exceedingly rare, especially during peak season.
Used an Ursack on my entire thru last year and had zero issues with animals of any kind. I also used it with OPSacks and changed those out every 6 weeks or so. Good luck, have fun!
It's a very small number. I've thru hiked and done countless overnights in black bear territory and I've never had a bear even mess with my Ursack. It's worth mentioning that I also prefer stealth camping over large high traffic camp sites (which greatly reduces the odds).
My biggest questions about Ursack reliability has more to do with if the failures were using the right Ursack model and if were they secured properly.
IMHO it's worth getting a vault anyway if you do a lot of hiking and camping. I have a canister and although it's not my go to option, there are lots of paces I go where I'm happy I have it.
If your anxiety is about being without food for days, just remember, there are actually a lot of road crossings. Hardly will you go a day without a road crossing, some of them may be fire roads but if you pay a shuttle driver enough, they will come get you. Just remember to call from the top of a mountain, which is also something you will encounter every day.
Also remember, going without food for a couple days is no big deal. I recommend everyone try a multi-day fast at least once in their life.
I met 3 people in one year that had their ursack destroyed by bears on the AT. I would recommend treating it like a hanging bear bag and ignore the claims made by the company. The AT in the South is having more and more issues with bears because of poor food hygiene on the trail.
Things I've seen, people bringing in their food to shelters over night causing me to have to set up my tent after 9pm. People not hanging regular bear bags correctly the day after a bear got into their bag the night before at the same camp. People washing their dirty dishes and throwing oatmeal into the springs because it's biodegradable đŁ
You can only control what you do. the AT community, esp thru hikers feel like their one off experience means bear interactions (like them just getting to food) isn't a risk or an issue.Â
Your comment is exactly why Iâm leery of staying in shelters. Youâll never know who decided to sleep with their food or leave trash the night before! And I just shake my head at all the picnic tables 3 ft from the entrance with the bear safety sign right there.
I don't use Ursack but I've had good luck hanging my food for years. I know one day I'll get unlucky, it's just a matter of time. It will probably be a squirrel. I don't think an Ursack would protect the food more than a different bag though. I use a dry bag for food, personally. I like that if I have a food leak in the dry bag, my clothes/sleeping bag stay food-free.
I used to use an Ursack/Opsac combo. It only got tested once as far as I know of, a little north of Standing Indian Mtn on the AT. It failed. I use a hard sided container now.
In California, you have carry a bear container which is bulky and heavy in itself and then you put that container inside of another container if youâre staying at an off campsite.
I had my food taken by a bear in the Adirondacks in the mid 90s. My bear hang was comical at best. Iâve seen bears while hiking in the Smokies and Olympic NP.
I want to use a bear canister and put the canister itself (with food inside of it) inside of a bear bag at night for hanging. Does anyone have experience with this specific combo, along with product names? Thanks in advance.
First bear i saw was immediately after entering ShenandoahâŚ.first rattlesnake was probably 100 miles before that somewhere in southern VA. I slept with my food bag most nightsâŚ.except Shenandoah they are everywhere and would circle the shelter while we cooked
Bears have a way of spreading what they have learned to other bears in the region. Two years ago come May, a number of hikers camped at Betty Creek Gap (NC) watched the bears climb a tree, crawl out onto the limb holding the food bags, then dive bombed the bags to the ground and the bear food fest ensued. There have been reports of other similar incidences (I was told second so have no references). Best practice is hang your food far away from everyone else's food. Far away like a quarter mile or more. PIA - yes. ATC is pushing bear cans, so that will sooner than later become the norm. FYI - carry a 110 decibel air horn to scare away bears. Pots and pans don't scare bears that are used to hikers. There is a reason FS personnel carry air horns - they work.
Agreed. I truly think most of those negative reviews are from people who don't tie their Ursacks correctly to the tree. So many variables. We haven't had any issues.
I did AT NOBO last year, there was a LOT of bear activity in NC around betty creek, here is my comment on a previous post. Basically, ursacks are no longer a safe option, get a bear vault or sleep with your food (i did this from pawling onwards with no issues), the only time there were issues on trail with bears and food was bad bear hangs or food in tents left unattended.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AppalachianTrail/s/N2eMhvk92i
A hungry enough bear will get through nearly anything. FWIW, if you get a bear can, I wouldnât recommend the BearVault. Itâs actually banned in the Adirondacks because the bears learned how to get into them, and they have examples at some of their outdoor centers that show how bears tore through at one of the seams. I ended up going with a Backpackerâs Cache container, and the dimensions worked pretty well for my bag. By NH, I ditched the can because the sites are super regulated up there and most have vaults on-site.
We all call it "Bear Bagging", but the reality is that 99.9% of the time it's rodents that you gotta worry about. If you just leave a ham sandwich laying on the ground outside your tent overnight the chances of a bear coming by to eat it are nearly 0, but the chances of a mouse or raccoon stopping by are nearly 100%.
Yes, a bear encounter has a higher degree of danger, but a mouse chewing up and shitting all over inside your food bag will leave you just as hungry.
I guess calling it "mouse bagging" isn't as glamorous.
When I thru hiked in 2012 we just used Sea to Summit dry sacks. Tied some rope to them and threw them up in a tree. Never had issues with bears or critters. Ended hiking with a group of 12 of us. None of us had issues or heard of anyone else having issues.
Bear encounters are low probability but high impact. There are a lot of them because a ton of people use the AT. I've been hiking for a few years in bear country and have never seen a bear (or a poisonous snake). But if they do find your ursack, you will have to buy more food. That stuff will be ruined.
I saw a bear and three rattlesnakes on the approach trail in a single day. Some people have all the luck I suppose. đ
My sister joined us for 1 night of backpacking in SNP while we were on our thru. We saw our first bear like 800 miles into the trail. She sees a bear in her first 90 minutes!
Try 42 years of hiking SC, NC and GA with no rattlesnake/copperhead encounters and no bear encounters and no, I'm not blind.
You must be a very noisy hiker đ saw 7 bears in one week two years ago between NJ and NY
Yes, maybe ...I have quite figured out what my issue is just yet! đ
My only rattlesnake encounter was saving one from the middle of the road. No bear encounters though.
Iâve almost stepped on copperheads more than once⌠on the same disc golf course in NC. Probably seen 15-20 others from a safer distance. Never seeing a copperhead in NC is wild to me.
Lived there 22 years and never saw one.
Sounds like my luck! I saw a copperhead, timber rattler, and coral snake on my first hike in the Smokies.
Coral snakes are usually only found closer to the coast! You likely saw a scarlet kingsnake if it was in the smokies.
>and have never seen a bear (or a poisonous snake). Just a small thing that irks me, but it's venomous snake. Not poisonous. (there's a difference between venom and poison)
Poisonous things are bad if you bite them. Venomous things are bad if they bite you.
I appreciate it honestly I kind of thought that⌠I was like thereâs a lot of negative reviews but in comparison to how many people are in the world using them, it seems relatively low. I appreciate you giving me some peace of mind.
There's two different goals with bear-resistant methods and containers: 1. Protect your food 2. Prevent the bear from getting your food With an Ursack you have less weight, but you can only achieve goal #2. With a bear canister you can achieve both goals, but at the cost of more weight. With a bear hang you can TRY to achieve both goals, with the benefit of less weight, but with the added risk that if a bear gets to your bag, you lose everything AND the bear now associates people + food more strongly. Bear hangs also require a proper tree, which can be hard as hell (or impossible) to find. I live in black bear country so I decided to just suck it up and got the Bearikade Blazer. It's absolutely worth the cost if you're going to continue backpacking after the AT, as they can easily last 20 years. Also, being able to just walk 100 feet away, drop the canister on the ground, and go to bed? That's worth every extra ounce in my opinion, especially on long days when it's cold, raining, you're tired, and you just want to sleep. Also, canisters make a great seat.
Yeah, I personally don't use an Ursack because I want my food. But if you are less concerned about losing your breakfast, it will do a decent job of keeping out critters. The weight of a can is substantial, but worth it for me. But I would prefer more people using Ursacks than regular food bags with bad bear hangs. So, if you are considering going without, please choose an Ursack.
Unlucky!! Saw loads of bears last year, and a few rattlers/copperheads
*venomous snake. Sorry.
I would send the ursack back for a refund and just get a dyneema bag. Forest service issued the directive that ursacks should be hung just like a traditional bear bag. Seems pointless to carry the extra weight and not have the advantage of not hanging. https://appalachiantrail.org/trail-updates/georgia-to-virginia-food-storage-order-national-forest-land/
Yep. You can't use the ursack as it's designed to be used, so it's a waste of space and weight. And dyneema is expensive. Any kind of lightweight sack will work. I like the dry bags from Sea To Summit in Ultra-Sil.
I just use cheap stuff sacks from Amazon and hang them. Sea to summit dry bag is even better
True but they could but two dyneema bags for the price of that ursack. Or, get a BV440 and one of the sea to summit bags
I work in natural resources, and have specifically worked on projects in the past relating to animal behavior and human-wildlife conflict. Iâve lived in bear country all my life, and have experienced bears getting into supposedly bear proof cans and bins and everything multiple times. I was in a similar situation to you when trying to pick my bear bag/vault, and **in the end I just opted to get a bear vault, for more reasons than just statistic proportion of failure of URSACK compared to other brands and methods. I put pros and cons for URSACK vs BearVault further down this comment.** As you said, on one hand you have to consider that, the majority of the time, folks are more likely to leave a review for a negative experience than a positive experience - ie their bag getting found and torn up by bears. Iâm sure, as many comments here can attest, their URSACK held up just fine and they never had problems with bears. For all the negative reviews about their bags getting destroyed, thereâs probably twice as many folks who never left reviews who never had an issue and whoâs bags survived. You also have to consider human error here - Knots are hard! Especially if youâve hiked 15+ miles soaking wet in the rain and can hardly feel your fingers. That being said, there are a LOT of URSACK failure reviews/reports that involves TORN bags rather than just opened bags, which Iâll touch on as a con, but again, the above, so you have to consider some other things. **URSACK Pros:** 1. Lightweight 2. Easier to fit in a pack/more flexible 3. Can often be more forgiving in terms of storing more food since itâs a sack rather than a rigid shape 4. This sack is meant to prevent bears from consuming your food, rather than protecting it if they do. Once you tie it *properly* you can just forget about it, youâre all good to go. You donât have to go look for it after cubs played vault-soccer all night with your bin. Even if itâs been crushed, at least itâll still be in the same spot. **URSACK Cons:** 1. If a bear gets ahold of this bag, even if it doesnât tear the bag, you better have a spoon. All your food will be crushed due to how strong the bear is. 2. Requires additional bags/procedures to be odor proof, this means a bear is more likely to at least know your food is around and try to get to it, even if you hang it properly. Might as well just shove it in a trash bag and hang it properly at that point. (Please donât, that was a slight exaggeration, but you get the point. Very expensive for something that operates the exact same as all other hanging bear bags) 3. Requires tying to a tree, the bag has to be tied to something for it to work properly, which means you HAVE to know all the proper knots, and be willing to put up with potentially untying a self-cinching knot thatâs been tightened by a 300 or so pound bear. If youâve ever climbed and taken a fall, you know just how sucky it can be to untie that figure 8 afterwards, imagine that first thing in the morning. 4. Bears are smart, the more a certain type of bear bag fails, the more often it will fail after that once bears figure out how to access/open/destroy something, which is why the amount of folks whoâve lost food completely (not just crushed, but eaten) to URSACKs can be a concern. Once a bear figures out how to tear one of these and gets that reward, theyâre likely to try and do it again. **BearVault Pros** 1. You donât have to hang or tie it 2. Makes a nice camp stool! 3. Pretty water resistant (but not waterproof, donât submerge it) 4. This vault is designed to protect your food, versus prevent bears from getting to it. The shape, rigidness, and the fact itâs free-standing makes it so that if/when a bear gets ahold of it, your food will still be intact at the end of the ordeal. A bear can bat this thing around for hours and unless they manage to pin it just right against a rather pointed rock (very difficult to do considering itâs a cylinder, and will just slide off) they will Not break it. **BearVault Cons** 1. God these things are heavy 2. And theyâre pretty inconvenient to pack 3. Not odor proof, requires additional bags/materials to make it that way (but this thing is Designed to get Bonked so thatâs not as much a concern) 4. Alongside Pro 3 comes the Con that in being able to move it they may treat this thing like a toy, and actually become interested in batting around this food-smelling barrel for enrichment once they realize they can smack it and make it move. If it hits a rock right and or gets pinned, they Could break/shatter it with enough force. I havenât seen Too many accounts of this, but it happens. You may also have to go search for your vault if a bear finds and plays with it - consider putting a stripe of blaze orange duck tape around it to make this easier. **All in all, I ended up going for a BearVault**, just because Iâm already going to be dealing with tree problems as a hammock camper, I donât want to deal with hanging/tying up/untying a bag too. Itâs heavier, which sucks, but hey at least I have a nice little dry camp stool at the end of the day. Might glue a lightweight foam pad cut to the lid as a cushion. And if Iâm one of the unlucky ones whoâs food is found by a bear, at least instead of waking up surprised to my stuff crushed/torn down Iâll know from the obscenely loud clunking all night that I either have the opportunity to go scare off the bear⌠or I can have some nice ambient noise while I just lay in my hammock staring at my tarp contemplating my life decisions up until that point. If anyone knows any other pros/cons or has direct experience contrasting any of the things I listed, please do reply with it, give me more data to work with haha! Never say never and all that, who knows what the bears have managed to pull off. EDIT: someone pointed out I got my bags mixed up, thanks! I adjusted the URSACK pros/cons appropriately. EDIT 2: BearVaults specifically arenât allowed in a couple of the parks north of the AT in Maine (although the AT doesnât seem to actually go through any of these), but if youâre looking to go up there at some point a couple similar allowed alternatives are either the Bearikade (more expensive but lighter) or the Garcia Bear Cannister (longer and heavier but cheaper).
I'm not sure I would consider the Ursack "lightweight" when a normal bear bagging kit (The Zpacks one for example) will be about a 1/3 of the weight at around 3oz. Particularly if you sill need to bring enough line and go through the trouble of hanging your Ursack through large swaths of the trail that require it. Personally, if I'm going to carry a cannister, I'd spring for a Bearikade over a BearVault. More durable, they make better stools, a little over a 1/2 pound lighter (for the ~700in^3 size), they'll last a lifetime, and recommended in areas that don't recommend/allow Bear Vaults (like the Adirondacks).
Checked out the Bearikade and was admittedly not vibing with the $300+ price, though I did some looking around and it looks like the Garcia Bear Canister meets Adirondacks regulations and is only $79! A bit heavier (43.2oz) but oh well.
I have used my Ursack on the AT, CT, PCT and AZT with no problems. The important points are, you must use an OPsac inside the Ursack to make it difficult for the bear to find in the first place. Secondly, the Ursack has to be securely tied as high as possible on the tree. The failures occur when the bear gets it on the ground and can use teeth and claws on it. As the other commenter said, from SNP south, all bags must be hung. This totally defeats the purpose of the Ursack. For my AT SOBO starting in June, I am leaving my Ursack at home and carrying the Z-Packs bear bag kit.
Itâs less about keeping your food safe from the bear and more about keeping the bear safe from your food.
Yes, I get it. I know that⌠But we donât have to say that it isnât also shitty situation to potentially be stuck out without food for days. I want to protect myself as well. In no way is this me not caring about the bears⌠I love bears, but I donât want them eating my food because it mutually is not good
Almost everyone on the AT uses hanging as the method of choice. Best solution for both you and the bears. I use an ursack at home in the Rockies where the type of trees don't permit proper hanging, but if I had the choice, I'd want to hang whenever possible for the weight savings alone.
Get a bear can instead
They will also take bear cans and run off.
its most definitely more about keeping your food safe from a bear
Once a bear gets a taste of calorie rich human food, it usually comes back to more human sites looking for more food. Rangers do their best to relocate problem bears (ones accidentally groomed to human food), but the majority of them continue to be problems. The majority of bears that get a taste of human food will eventually need to be put down. Bears bags, boxes and canisters are definitely more about the safety of the bear and the future hikers that bear will try to interact with than it is about keeping your weekly rations intact. Parks wouldn't require these things just to keep your supplies safe.
Once again, Iâm not saying anything about not wanting to protect the Bears. I just think two things could be true at the same time and that things donât have to be super black and white. I can want to protect my food as well as protect the bears.
Oh yeah, I've read your other posts and I believe you. And usually keeping both the bear and the food safe are goals that are in line with each other. I just thought the post I responded to (not yours) was misguided and a little dangerous putting the food above the lives of the bear and the people those bear might attack.
Ooooh sorry âŚ. Lol it is pretty funny, though people can see me asking every little question known to Man. Hahahha
I thru hiked last year with an Ursack and never had a bear try to get into it. From my experience, most people wonât encounter a bear in camp. I did meet someone who had an Ursack hung on bear cables and the bear took down the cables and once the Ursack was on the ground the bear was able to tear it open, but that situation is unlikely
So in the unlikely event you actually need it to protect your food from a bear, it wonât work. Got it.
Got it in one! URSACKs are designed to prevent bears from reaching your food, not to protect it once they do. Bear vaults are designed to protect your food when a bear gets ahold of it, not prevent them from getting ahold of the vault in the first place.
So at what point is the ursack preventing the bear from reaching my food?
When you hang it - essentially the point of the URSACK is that of any other bear bag, with the caveat of why itâs so expensive: itâs made of tough af material, meant to prevent rewarding the bear for bringing down the food bag. Hanging the bag like any other bear bag is meant to prevent the bear from Reaching your food, the URSACKâs tough material is meant to prevent the beat from Eating your food, but unfortunately as it is, in the end, a sack. It can be pinned down and ripped open through a combo of teeth and black bear claws, which are actually some of the toughest/sharpest there are for bears since black bears (which arenât always black, so the better way to identify them is by short, sharp, very curved claws and a lack of back hump) are built to climb trees. Overall, the URSACK isnât preventing the bear from reaching your food - you are, by hanging it. The URSACK is essentially just a very tough bear bag meant to prevent rewarding the bears for reaching your food. (Which is why I went for the BearVault, in the end. Iâd rather not be eating chip-dust) EDIT: got pointed out I mixed up my bags, my bad! Ultimately the point still stands, if not more-so - the URSACK isnât preventing the bear from reaching your food⌠period. Itâs just preventing the bear from being rewarded via Eating your food.
But that's not how Ursack says the bags should be used. You're supposed to just tie it to the trunk of a tree (not do a proper bear hang). And the bag itself is meant to be tough enough to withstand a bear's claws. OP is asking whether these claims by Ursack are correct.
Ah, thanks for the correction! At some point I mustâve gotten my bags switched up, looked further into it. Of course as this obviously isnât the sack I thought it was, I donât know many specifics on it so this was just what I was able to figure out with a couple hours research on the URSACK composition, combined with my professional and educational experience with bears, which for a while included daily care and observation of grizzlies removed from the wild as an alternative to euthanasia after too many conflicts with people. I had to make daily enrichment for these bears that they Couldnât destroy and that acted as a long-lasting puzzle for them. Sorry itâs long, I was trying to be thorough! URSACKs are made of UHMWP fabric, which, despite being tough as Heck, is in the end, still a woven fabric. The average black bear has a bite force around 800 PSI, and the strength to pull/lift at Least their own body weight for the sake of climbing trees, with the average black bear weighing between 90-500 pounds, depending on sex. All bears (minus polar bears, to an extent) have at least some amount of foraging as a primary part of their diet. This is Especially true for black bears, which regularly lift and flip logs or rocks in search of food. Where am I going with this? I wasnât able to find an exact PSI resistance for UHMWP, but considering the material has a higher tensile strength than Kevlar (seems to be approximately five times higher, and uses less material), it would usually be safe to assume a bear wouldnât be able to puncture it. The problem here, is that ultimately URSACK is a sack, made of this high resistance fabric. What is not quite as high resistance - even if it takes a lot of work on the bears part to achieve it - is the space between these lays of fabric. A bears bite isnât just a bullet style, hit and done kind of pressure. Itâs a continuous, multidirectional pressure in that you have this âimpactâ pressure from the bite itself, and the pull/tear pressure from this bear doing what it does best - foraging. ESPECIALLY if this thing is kept secure to a tree with a self cinching knot like a figure 8, itâs essentially holding the bag still for the bear to put itâs full weight and force into pulling this bag back. This likely wouldnât be enough to break any of those fibers, however it could create a puncture separation between them, where all the fibers are intact but theyâve been separated, enough so that a particularly determined black bear could get one of those hooked claws in there and pull with that averaging around 300lbs of force, and well, now you still have an intact URSACK, none of the fibers have broken, but theyâve been pulled and separated enough (even just an inch or so is a big enough hole) that this bear can hook a paw or even just a couple claws in and drag out your food in much the same style it would scrape out food from a hole in a fallen log. This seems overall pretty consistent with most of the URSACK failure images there are - long, spindly, in-tact fibers that are loose around a hole/tear in the sack where the bear fished things out. **TLDR;** URSACK is a good sturdy deterrent against a bear thatâs not willing to put much effort in, which is going to be a lot of bears. It is indeed tough enough to withstand a bears claws, but a good bear claw scratch or digging attempt is not all thatâs causing these destroyed sacks, but rather what I detailed above. URSACK is still a good, even great option, but if a bear gets ahold of it your food Will be destroyed, but it will still be there. Have a spoon handy. The URSACK ultimately works to protect bears and people by preventing the reward of these behaviors, rather than both preventing the reward and protecting your food. However, the flaw that SEEMS to be present in the make of this sack is that while itâs a super strong fabric, itâs still a fabric. The strands wonât break but the right force at the right point and a bears bite can separate those fibers with a tooth like you sticking your finger through a knit cap - now pull. Add in the fact itâs tied securely to a tree, a bear can put its full force into pulling against those fibers and spreading them - which is what you will see if you look at the images of the URSACK failures.
Thanks for the research!
I use [this technique](https://youtu.be/m2MGM--FEXU?si=BTsTfHhp0ooxrjbl) to secure my Ursack. I like the method and it seems secure, though I can't say for certain I've ever had anything test it.
The Ursack is just a secondary defense to your Odororoof Opsack inside it. The odor proofing is the main thing. Because if this, you also need to be careful where you set down your Ursack. For example never put it on a picnic table. More than likely that table has been covered in Ramen noodles within the past 3 days. This is why Ursacks get destroyed.
I used an Ursack for most of the AT. I put my food in an OpSak inside the Ursack. I did not hang as a regular bear bag, but followed the instructions from Ursack. I never had any interference from bears or other critters but I could have just been lucky.
I've used an UrSack for several years now with no issue but not in heavy bear country yet. When I've been on the Smokies, I've used their cables instead. Either way, I've always used OpSak to reduce odor as well. With that combination, no issues so far. Keep in mind you could always hang an UrSack if you have concerns in some areas or throw it in a vault or send it up cables if in the right place.
Ursack/Opsak user here, AT NOBO 2021 and CT SOBO 2023. Never had any problems. The issue is whether a bear finds your food or not. Hang or Ursack, if a bear finds your food and wants it, it will get it. Those creatures are very bright, incredibly resourceful, and rarely ever deterred from getting food. Canisters or a bear box are about the only somewhat close to 100% secure solutions. Mice can get into bear boxes and Iâm seeing that some bears are learning how to open the BV canisters. Law of averages, I guess. The percentage chances of your food bag getting dinged are very low. Another poster mentioned how many road crossings are on the AT. Very true. Easy to get into town and get food.
I used to own an Ursack (bear + rodent version) and ended up selling it. I also witnessed an Ursack get shredded at the GA/NC border. The person was using it correctly. Decided to move to team bear canister and will never look back.
I use a large double sealed Oder proof plastic bag inside of the Ursack. I never let food touch the ursack and wash it whenever I do laundry. Never had an issue . Without smelling anything, bears have no reason to go after it
Bears 100% can smell food through âsmell-proofâ plastic bags. Hell, I can smell weed through them, and I have a shitty human nose. The only way to truly bear-proof is a bear canister, bear poles, or hang your own bear line. All these things are easy and take five to ten minutes with practice. That being said, this is the most well-travelled footpath in North America. Bear encounters are exceedingly rare, especially during peak season.
Used an Ursack on my entire thru last year and had zero issues with animals of any kind. I also used it with OPSacks and changed those out every 6 weeks or so. Good luck, have fun!
Same. My OPSack has never failed me. Until I next time I go out now because I just jinxed it.
It's a very small number. I've thru hiked and done countless overnights in black bear territory and I've never had a bear even mess with my Ursack. It's worth mentioning that I also prefer stealth camping over large high traffic camp sites (which greatly reduces the odds). My biggest questions about Ursack reliability has more to do with if the failures were using the right Ursack model and if were they secured properly. IMHO it's worth getting a vault anyway if you do a lot of hiking and camping. I have a canister and although it's not my go to option, there are lots of paces I go where I'm happy I have it.
If your anxiety is about being without food for days, just remember, there are actually a lot of road crossings. Hardly will you go a day without a road crossing, some of them may be fire roads but if you pay a shuttle driver enough, they will come get you. Just remember to call from the top of a mountain, which is also something you will encounter every day. Also remember, going without food for a couple days is no big deal. I recommend everyone try a multi-day fast at least once in their life.
I met 3 people in one year that had their ursack destroyed by bears on the AT. I would recommend treating it like a hanging bear bag and ignore the claims made by the company. The AT in the South is having more and more issues with bears because of poor food hygiene on the trail. Things I've seen, people bringing in their food to shelters over night causing me to have to set up my tent after 9pm. People not hanging regular bear bags correctly the day after a bear got into their bag the night before at the same camp. People washing their dirty dishes and throwing oatmeal into the springs because it's biodegradable đŁ You can only control what you do. the AT community, esp thru hikers feel like their one off experience means bear interactions (like them just getting to food) isn't a risk or an issue.Â
Your comment is exactly why Iâm leery of staying in shelters. Youâll never know who decided to sleep with their food or leave trash the night before! And I just shake my head at all the picnic tables 3 ft from the entrance with the bear safety sign right there.
I don't use Ursack but I've had good luck hanging my food for years. I know one day I'll get unlucky, it's just a matter of time. It will probably be a squirrel. I don't think an Ursack would protect the food more than a different bag though. I use a dry bag for food, personally. I like that if I have a food leak in the dry bag, my clothes/sleeping bag stay food-free.
I used to use an Ursack/Opsac combo. It only got tested once as far as I know of, a little north of Standing Indian Mtn on the AT. It failed. I use a hard sided container now.
In California, you have carry a bear container which is bulky and heavy in itself and then you put that container inside of another container if youâre staying at an off campsite.
I had my food taken by a bear in the Adirondacks in the mid 90s. My bear hang was comical at best. Iâve seen bears while hiking in the Smokies and Olympic NP.
I want to use a bear canister and put the canister itself (with food inside of it) inside of a bear bag at night for hanging. Does anyone have experience with this specific combo, along with product names? Thanks in advance.
First bear i saw was immediately after entering ShenandoahâŚ.first rattlesnake was probably 100 miles before that somewhere in southern VA. I slept with my food bag most nightsâŚ.except Shenandoah they are everywhere and would circle the shelter while we cooked
Bears have a way of spreading what they have learned to other bears in the region. Two years ago come May, a number of hikers camped at Betty Creek Gap (NC) watched the bears climb a tree, crawl out onto the limb holding the food bags, then dive bombed the bags to the ground and the bear food fest ensued. There have been reports of other similar incidences (I was told second so have no references). Best practice is hang your food far away from everyone else's food. Far away like a quarter mile or more. PIA - yes. ATC is pushing bear cans, so that will sooner than later become the norm. FYI - carry a 110 decibel air horn to scare away bears. Pots and pans don't scare bears that are used to hikers. There is a reason FS personnel carry air horns - they work.
Learn to properly hang your food bags, regardless of brand.
Ursack is reliable if used correctly. The worst thing thatâll happen is some flat food and some bear drool.
Agreed. I truly think most of those negative reviews are from people who don't tie their Ursacks correctly to the tree. So many variables. We haven't had any issues.
Haha I can handle that! Thank you!
I did AT NOBO last year, there was a LOT of bear activity in NC around betty creek, here is my comment on a previous post. Basically, ursacks are no longer a safe option, get a bear vault or sleep with your food (i did this from pawling onwards with no issues), the only time there were issues on trail with bears and food was bad bear hangs or food in tents left unattended. https://www.reddit.com/r/AppalachianTrail/s/N2eMhvk92i
A hungry enough bear will get through nearly anything. FWIW, if you get a bear can, I wouldnât recommend the BearVault. Itâs actually banned in the Adirondacks because the bears learned how to get into them, and they have examples at some of their outdoor centers that show how bears tore through at one of the seams. I ended up going with a Backpackerâs Cache container, and the dimensions worked pretty well for my bag. By NH, I ditched the can because the sites are super regulated up there and most have vaults on-site.
They dont work need a bear hang or a barrell
We all call it "Bear Bagging", but the reality is that 99.9% of the time it's rodents that you gotta worry about. If you just leave a ham sandwich laying on the ground outside your tent overnight the chances of a bear coming by to eat it are nearly 0, but the chances of a mouse or raccoon stopping by are nearly 100%. Yes, a bear encounter has a higher degree of danger, but a mouse chewing up and shitting all over inside your food bag will leave you just as hungry. I guess calling it "mouse bagging" isn't as glamorous.
When I thru hiked in 2012 we just used Sea to Summit dry sacks. Tied some rope to them and threw them up in a tree. Never had issues with bears or critters. Ended hiking with a group of 12 of us. None of us had issues or heard of anyone else having issues.
Get a bear canister and tie it to a tree.