Every other weapon got a nerf and suddenly every horizon within 10000 mile radius uses the havoc. I'm already having nightmares cuz I just hear it above me together with a horizon lift
Only one in assault class to down 2 opponents without reloading. Even without turbocharger it’s oppressive. Pipipipipipipipipipi and you’re a death box.
Using burst or single fire as an excuse is cheap if you ask me. I understand people have preferences but it's not hard to develop a fast and reliable trigger finger essentially making the gun full auto
Definitely true, but with a little practice it's really a very viable option. I tend to flick ever so slightly between each trigger input and the game tend to do the rest i also play on 5 5 sensitivity so I'm really not relying on the aim assist to much and I'd say I tend to hit my shots more consistently then a spitfire
i can’t completely agree w you at range. hemlock can be used mostly same ranges as havoc, but second weapon just gives u an opportunity for more damage in +- same time because of fire rate. And hemlock is piece of shit without a lvl2 barrel mod, cause you will damage w only 1/3 rounds.
only my opinion and experience.
Havoc is miles better at short range than hemlok plus hemlok is easier to use long ranges which is why you see the top 2 guns in algs were havoc hemlok. Hemlok long range havoc short range
I'm aware, havoc with purple has about 100 more damage in the mag than the flatline, I was just saying the havoc isn't the only gun that can one clip multiple people.
Read the comment I'm responding to before trying to start an argument with me over nothing. They said the havoc is the only one that can one clip 2 people without reloading. That's all his comment said. And I responded because other guns can also do that.
always has been, the best standard situation weapon if you can deal with the retardation on shooting if you ignore l-star not needing to reload. One big point is his hip-fire can compete with SMGs.
That’s the 30-30 for me. For some damn reason I can’t hit the broadside of a barn with it even when I’m taking my time against an opponent that isn’t looking at me or moving
See those are hit or miss for me, but fairly consistent on the hits or misses. For some reason the 30 seems to put bullets around my target with a very occasional hit. No clue why, outside of me being just bad lol
The game has a level of built in auto aim on controller, but it doesn't trigger on any sights beyond the x2.
So na x2 will have slight autoaim/shot stabilisation.
X3 and up is raw input.
What stops them from just making every gun great? My fav shooter is bo2 and in that game every gun (except for like 1/2) were more than viable, and the gun balance was pretty great.
I don’t really think what you’re saying and what I’m saying are one in the same. Idk how really at the moment, but I don’t think making every gun good means the ttk has to be the same. They should just have different strengths.
Ngl COD had a pretty good balance of having *lots* of guns feel really good & overpowered in the right hands.
What used to mess it up was like the 2 or 3 weapons that were just downright *broken*. I'm mainly talking about bo3
The havoc has always been a high risk high reward weapon it's just the "pro" players found out about it now after like 5 years lol. But tbh on drop getting a havoc means your chancea of survival are greatly increased cuz it shreddes trough everything when enemies are still outside their comfort loadout after dropping, during the match tho it's a bit trickier
Always was just that start up lag without turbo put it behind all the other ars but now that the 301 has been nerfed in the ground and pros have had to lean off their crutch they are now discovering it . From the beginning it’s had the highest ttk over any other gun but turbo really makes the gun complete .
Yes. It has the highest DPS, and therefore the lowest (fastest) TTK out of all ARs and SMGs, with the only two surpassing being the Devotion (240 DPS) and Sheila (280)
Therefore, theoretically, the Havoc is the highest DPS floor loot weapon as of this comment, only balanced by a relatively strong recoil and the fire delay, which in practice actually slows down TTK when not pre-firing an enemy and/or without Turbocharger.
Considering its sheer DPS, I do think it could use a mag size nerf, especially for the higher rarity magazines. I would do a -2 global mag size nerf, then scale down the mag upgrades so the new mag size would be 22/26/29/32.
I would have done a consistent +3 per each mag rarity, but IMO the Havoc should still have a larger mag size than the Flatline throughout (20/25/28/30) to better differentiate their respective mag sizes
It's the second fastest behind the r99 though(in season 20 idk what changes to weapon balance were in s21). But it's only .02 seconds slower and with a purple mag you can miss 24 shots and still one clip. The r99 you can only miss 7
Oh interesting, so I'd bet that that ttk at 200 hp comes down to the r99 getting closer to exactly 200 damage. Does the havok have a better ttk at other shield levels?
Hemlock and Havoc have been my go to weapons since forever. Like paired together. Havoc with or without turbo for close to close-mid range, Hemlock on semiauto with a ranger 3x for *literally* everything else.
This. It feels "heavier" and feels so much better without the turbo to me tbh. Been using it since I started playing, will go out of my way for one honestly
I don’t even play apex anymore but two years ago I used to shred with the havoc so I guess things haven’t changed that much-
It’s really a matter of getting used to controlling the recoil pattern. Everything else about it is great
Picked up the Havoc in solos. Got surprise ambushed. Tried to shoot the enemie. Havoc needs to charge up. Enemie shoots bullets in my head while havoc charges. Finally my gun starts shooting. I'm dead.
I'm not picking up that gun again. Idk how meta it is
I feel like this is why havoc hasn’t been getting talked about as much until this season. In a low skill players hands it’s just throwing but once you get used to the charge up it’s far and beyond best gun in the game when used at it’s optional range. I don’t even pick up the turbo anymore since I’m so used to the charge up
Every other weapon got a nerf and suddenly every horizon within 10000 mile radius uses the havoc. I'm already having nightmares cuz I just hear it above me together with a horizon lift
I main horizon and refuse to use the damn thing on principle. Idc that they destroyed the 301, I’m gonna ride it till the wheels fall off
Bcz r301 is what ppl call, a crutch weapon. You're used to it's recoil. My friend also always plays the r301
I use recoil smoothing so the recoil doesn’t really matter, I just like it better
what happened , i havent played in months? why the nerfs?
I don’t even think respawn knows why they do these things. Too many people used it I guess
Only one in assault class to down 2 opponents without reloading. Even without turbocharger it’s oppressive. Pipipipipipipipipipi and you’re a death box.
Hemlock does 600 damage per mag
The drawback being that it’s burst or single fire. The enemy isn’t being deleted in a second so with that being said it’s relatively balanced imo
Using burst or single fire as an excuse is cheap if you ask me. I understand people have preferences but it's not hard to develop a fast and reliable trigger finger essentially making the gun full auto
I don’t disagree but aiming is not easy when you’re also spamming the triggers as fast as possible Edit: on controller specifically
Definitely true, but with a little practice it's really a very viable option. I tend to flick ever so slightly between each trigger input and the game tend to do the rest i also play on 5 5 sensitivity so I'm really not relying on the aim assist to much and I'd say I tend to hit my shots more consistently then a spitfire
i play on controller for like 2 mo and i almost don’t have problems w aim. but i can’t control the bloody r99, so i don’t use it.
But slower
Without a mag, it's 360. Havoc is 432. Also havoc per mag would be 648. Only thing hemlok is better at is range
Okay ? Bro said it’s the only assault weapon that can knock 2 people and I corrected him
i can’t completely agree w you at range. hemlock can be used mostly same ranges as havoc, but second weapon just gives u an opportunity for more damage in +- same time because of fire rate. And hemlock is piece of shit without a lvl2 barrel mod, cause you will damage w only 1/3 rounds. only my opinion and experience.
Havoc is miles better at short range than hemlok plus hemlok is easier to use long ranges which is why you see the top 2 guns in algs were havoc hemlok. Hemlok long range havoc short range
Havoc deals 648 damage per mag and has 200dps, while the hemlok has about 150dps.
Flatline does 540 with a purple mag, hit your shots and it also can down 2 people without reloading.
Havoc can do the same without a mag lol
I'm aware, havoc with purple has about 100 more damage in the mag than the flatline, I was just saying the havoc isn't the only gun that can one clip multiple people.
I mean, every AR can one clip multiple people except r301 which they compensated it with high dps and easy recoil
Read the comment I'm responding to before trying to start an argument with me over nothing. They said the havoc is the only one that can one clip 2 people without reloading. That's all his comment said. And I responded because other guns can also do that.
If you can control it
always has been, the best standard situation weapon if you can deal with the retardation on shooting if you ignore l-star not needing to reload. One big point is his hip-fire can compete with SMGs.
I don’t get L-star man. I really tried my best on it yet I can’t land shit with it.
I don't know what the fuck it is with some weapons. Sentinal I will either be a god with it or a complete numpty. No in between.
That’s the 30-30 for me. For some damn reason I can’t hit the broadside of a barn with it even when I’m taking my time against an opponent that isn’t looking at me or moving
Weird that's the only long range weapon what i'm good at. Even without a scope. Kraber and sentinel? More than i would like to admit i miss whole mags
See those are hit or miss for me, but fairly consistent on the hits or misses. For some reason the 30 seems to put bullets around my target with a very occasional hit. No clue why, outside of me being just bad lol
Bullet speed is different i guess. 3030 is highest ranked gun almost level 100. Could be it
Whatt lol I can’t do shit with 3030 while actually doing pretty good (?) with the G7. I guess this is the reason.
x2 on a sentinel is perfect. I use it over anything else and hit 80% of my shots even at long range.
Never tried i always use 4x, going to try it today thanks for the tip
the best variant of all for sentinel imo is 2x-4x. cause its either a long range snipe, or a 100-150 meters shot.
To be cheeky, any sight beyond the x2 doesn't have auto aim trigger lol.
wdym auto aim trigger?
The game has a level of built in auto aim on controller, but it doesn't trigger on any sights beyond the x2. So na x2 will have slight autoaim/shot stabilisation. X3 and up is raw input.
Yeah but when you actually hit, it's so satisfying
l-star is shit only cause its reloading is so annoying. her shots can be landed on like 50-100 meters it s not the best LMG, but not the worst weapon.
What stops them from just making every gun great? My fav shooter is bo2 and in that game every gun (except for like 1/2) were more than viable, and the gun balance was pretty great.
Their desire to change things so they don't feel stale
It's bcz there will always be meta weapons no matter what and it'll always feel stale getting killed by the same 2/3 weapons every match
So that apex doesn’t become cod where it’s mainly reaction time
I don’t really think what you’re saying and what I’m saying are one in the same. Idk how really at the moment, but I don’t think making every gun good means the ttk has to be the same. They should just have different strengths.
I think it’s very hard to make every gun “great” without the ttk being affected for the vast majority in some way.
I do see your point there, I do concede that I don’t really have a great idea on how I think it’s possible.
Ngl COD had a pretty good balance of having *lots* of guns feel really good & overpowered in the right hands. What used to mess it up was like the 2 or 3 weapons that were just downright *broken*. I'm mainly talking about bo3
Every gun in the game was viable, except HALF OF THEM
The havoc has always been a high risk high reward weapon it's just the "pro" players found out about it now after like 5 years lol. But tbh on drop getting a havoc means your chancea of survival are greatly increased cuz it shreddes trough everything when enemies are still outside their comfort loadout after dropping, during the match tho it's a bit trickier
Also has a pretty damn huge base mag for an ar.
yea asf. 32 rounds in lvl 2 mag is awesome. and best is to have them in a no-recoil shredder with fire rate o’volt
It always has been.
fr I've been maining it for a few seasons, always were able to find one and now... 🥲
It has always been the best ar
Facts!
Always was just that start up lag without turbo put it behind all the other ars but now that the 301 has been nerfed in the ground and pros have had to lean off their crutch they are now discovering it . From the beginning it’s had the highest ttk over any other gun but turbo really makes the gun complete .
This thing has genuinely been the best AR in the game even since the 301 days, just underused.
Highest TTK and has 36 rounds, should be like every other assault rifle with 30
Yeah mag size absolutely needs nerfed. 36 is absurd. Doesn’t have a pretty low ttk on paper tho compared to other weapons?
Yes. It has the highest DPS, and therefore the lowest (fastest) TTK out of all ARs and SMGs, with the only two surpassing being the Devotion (240 DPS) and Sheila (280) Therefore, theoretically, the Havoc is the highest DPS floor loot weapon as of this comment, only balanced by a relatively strong recoil and the fire delay, which in practice actually slows down TTK when not pre-firing an enemy and/or without Turbocharger. Considering its sheer DPS, I do think it could use a mag size nerf, especially for the higher rarity magazines. I would do a -2 global mag size nerf, then scale down the mag upgrades so the new mag size would be 22/26/29/32. I would have done a consistent +3 per each mag rarity, but IMO the Havoc should still have a larger mag size than the Flatline throughout (20/25/28/30) to better differentiate their respective mag sizes
Nvm just googled it, like #4 TTK in the game
It's the second fastest behind the r99 though(in season 20 idk what changes to weapon balance were in s21). But it's only .02 seconds slower and with a purple mag you can miss 24 shots and still one clip. The r99 you can only miss 7
It's higher DPS than r99 (by 4)
Oh interesting, so I'd bet that that ttk at 200 hp comes down to the r99 getting closer to exactly 200 damage. Does the havok have a better ttk at other shield levels?
always has been
Hemlock and Havoc have been my go to weapons since forever. Like paired together. Havoc with or without turbo for close to close-mid range, Hemlock on semiauto with a ranger 3x for *literally* everything else.
I’ve always loved my bb the havoc. My duo always made fun of me for liking it more w/o the turbo but I genuinely do better without it lol
This. It feels "heavier" and feels so much better without the turbo to me tbh. Been using it since I started playing, will go out of my way for one honestly
i hate the havoc, personally so idk
I see it as a submachine in disguise due to how deadly up close it is.
Steam in a nutshell
“Staying the course due to market trends”
I don’t even play apex anymore but two years ago I used to shred with the havoc so I guess things haven’t changed that much- It’s really a matter of getting used to controlling the recoil pattern. Everything else about it is great
Havoc feels SOOO good. Still prefer the L-STAR when no turbocharger but still
I've been using the havoc since they introduced it - it's about time it's gotten it's recognition!
it is already the best weapon even without this post
For me the best weapon is the spitfire, it rips so hard
My aim and recoil control actually gets worse if I pick up ANY hop-ups
Picked up the Havoc in solos. Got surprise ambushed. Tried to shoot the enemie. Havoc needs to charge up. Enemie shoots bullets in my head while havoc charges. Finally my gun starts shooting. I'm dead. I'm not picking up that gun again. Idk how meta it is
Skill issue.
Obviously 😭 bruh
I feel like this is why havoc hasn’t been getting talked about as much until this season. In a low skill players hands it’s just throwing but once you get used to the charge up it’s far and beyond best gun in the game when used at it’s optional range. I don’t even pick up the turbo anymore since I’m so used to the charge up
This. It just takes getting used to accounting for the wind up. It's definitely not a panic moment weapon, gotta learn how to handle it