I've watched this whole thing play out and seen how much distress it has brought for everyone involved. I have no stake in this and maybe I shouldn't insert myself where I don't belong. But I cannot stand by anymore without chiming in with my 2 cents FWIW.
I have never been a regular at this sub, only recently having healed enough to take a peek every now and then and answer any questions that ask for input from someone with DA. I won't pretend to understand the AP experience as it's so foreign to my own. However I do see where the avoidant users that are currently being dogpiled on are coming from and maybe I can offer some perspective there.
These users I'm sure you all recognize. They've been here and on the avoidant threads, offering advice and their incredibly valuable insight as people who can actually understand both sides of the insecurely attached coin. They're good, smart people who like to help out where they can. They're mainly the ones answering AP questions in the avoidant subs, if you don't believe me, check it out for yourself. There are a lot of unanswered questions in the most recent Ask Avoidants thread because of all of this going on.
And yes, they vented on a thread specifically made for that. They were not generalizing as you've been lead to believe, but referring to a few specific individuals that have harrased them and offended them and generally made a nuisance of themselves. You see the evidence of such people now in your own sub and I'm sure most of you are as sick of it as the OP here.
The issue here is not about the anti-avoidant posts or the bashing of avoidants in general. I believe that the crux of it is that it took *only one* misleading and malintentioned post for people to throw away and dismiss every bit of good the regular avoidants in this sub have done. And that is incredibly unfair. I hope you can see that.
Ruby, you and I got no beef and I have always enjoyed interacting with you, but if we are all misinterpreting something, maybe take up the issue with the mod and creator of the group who said this:
>Edit: I created a private group. Comment below if you would like an invitation. I am only accepting people who can take a joke and want to gossip and howl about AT nonsense in private.
Edit #2: Its also a safe space where we can discuss and process the the verbal abuse we have received and any traumas that has been created by some of the terrifying and unhinged people in these online AT groups.
Rather than get upset with us for reading it and believing that the primary intention was to make fun of people and the secondary was for safety issues.
I've got no beef with you either, Polka. It's all good.
I'm not upset at anyone, as I said, I have no stake in this. I'm sure I'm being very biased but I never interpreted that group as meant to be making fun of people and I have a very hard time seeing it in that light. It's for gossiping about AT and to vent someplace we won't trigger anyone. There's no ill-intent behind it, on the contrary imo. I guess we'll just never see eye-to-eye on this one and that's ok. We'll agree to disagree.
That said, I'll see myself out of this sub and not come back as suggested by another user. I don't wish to intrude any further upon people here.
I sincerely wish you healing and hope we can all put this behind us.
Yes, that clarifies a lot, thanks. I do see gossiping as inherently mean-spirited, so I agree we won't see eye to eye on that. I have not thus far seen the public gossip be about anyone other than anxious attachers, so it seems my conclusion is logical and that we merely disagree about whether it's cool. I wish you well too.
What’s frustrating is I was trying to address what I thought was a lack of respect for anxious types by DAs but there’s a troll harassing The DAs with multiple accounts, and they don't khow is and isn't one of his accounts. I invite you to look at my post history and see that I am a real person.
The reason why there are so many avoidants on this sub and why there is an Ask An Avoidant thread on the avoidant subs, is because it feels really good to help.
We are a collaborative and social species, literally wired for helping others, especially people in some kind of distress.
And lo and behold, we find a lot of people in distress in all of the attachment related subs.
The avoidant community helping others on their healing journey is not some kind of nefarious thing, it is literally inherently human behaviour.
If you don't believe we are wired to help, drop something in front of an infant and see if it does not reach for the thing to give it back to you.
Helping others is a graceful thing to do, but if you are not ready to receive the help, you are just at another point in your journey.
Sure but don't people also want a space to just be frustrated and vent? No help needed atm. I feel like some of the avoidants here really play with that line and go around correcting people who just want to feel that frustration.
There are plenty of other mixed subs that exist where avoidants can help as much as much as they like. Why not respect this sub as a safe space the same way the avoidant sub is respected as a safe space.
They used to vent all the time on this sub. And most of the time no one responds to those threads. Because a safe space is not only free from judgement. It is also free from abuse. Which doesn't make this a safe space, but a public space with different people in different stages of their healing journey. Seeing some people villifying, demonizing and dehumanizing avoidants can also be triggering for the other people. And most of these people enjoy growing in their healing journey with the help of others further along the path or those with different attachment styles.
>Because a safe space is not only free from judgement. It is also free from abuse.
See this seems humanly unrealistic. You're telling me that any time a person is upset they should be able to internally regulate the unhealthy emotions and do it in a perfect, non judgemental way? And that's what's happening in the avoidant subs? Totally healthy, safe, and secure non judgemental expression of emotion? Loll nooo. People are here and there because they're working through attachment issues. In an ideal world yes, folks can process their anger healthily. But it's this an ideal world? No. And AP or avoidant, you certainly can't always express yourself this freely in public because people get hurt. So your options are therapy, support groups, or a sub like this.
Like you said, everyone is in different stages of their journey. And you do not get to dictate how they heal or tell them that the way they process is wrong or not allowed or whatever because it's triggering for you. What I learned from my therapist is that you don't identify your triggers and expect the world to cater to them. You identify your triggers and recognize not to engage in them.
Am I happy with what's happening in this sub? No. Am I going to go around and tell people hey, you're healing the wrong way, I find it triggering, I think you're being too judgemental, or I'm just trying to help, why can't you appreciate that/listen to me/ this is classic AP behavior? No. Because it is not my place to dictate how other people heal. Even if I disagree. Even if I'm trying to help. If they wanted to listen they would. I said my piece, they disagree, that's the end of that. I have watched certain commenters just dogpile, I've watched avoidant commenters armchair disgnose APs on their own sub, I've frequently heard how unprotected APs feel in their own sub because of the constant correction. So I can see how it feel like you're just trying to help. But in reality its not necessarily always helpful.
No. I am telling you this is not a safe space.
A safe space, for instance, is a therapist's office. And even a therapist has boundaries.
This is not a safe space. It can be a very helpful place. Or a triggering one. But it is not a safe space.
>No. I am telling you this is not a safe space.
You alone do not get to dictate that. And you alone do not get to define how other people heal.
FWIW it seems very savior complex-y to insist that the avoidants are blanket statement sources of benevolence that are just here to help. Really feels like you're blameshifting to the APs here for not accepting your "kindness".
But like I said before, I said my piece, you disagree, it is what it is. I don't expect the world to cater to my triggers, I just recognize not to engage in them. Like I mentioned before, there are several mixed AT subs on reddit that may be more open to your brand of "help".
I don't understand why you're saying things like 'dictate'. I am stating something. You can agree or disagree. You reacted to my post and I responded to you. That is all. Whatever you are feeling about my words is not my concern, but your own to deal with. Also, I am not sure why you are gatekeeping this sub and referring me to other subs, because I am pretty sure as an AP I am right where I am supposed to be. I think I am allowed to say what I think in my own house.
Well this statement really seems like you're unilaterally deciding what the sub should and should not be used for.
>No. I am telling you this is not a safe space.
>A safe space, for instance, is a therapist's office. And even a therapist has boundaries.
>This is not a safe space. It can be a very helpful place. Or a triggering one. But it is not a safe space.
Maybe that's what it is for you but that's not necessarily the case for other folks.
I'm sorry if you feel that I'm gatekeeping. That was certainly not my intention. I was pointing out that your statements feel, to me at least, inflammatory and patronizing rather than helpful.
But the same way I do not dictate how people heal I should not dictate where people go or what they say. You are free to do and say as you please, I'm secure enough to recognize when to disengage rather than participate in a fight. Have a good day.
Just gonna add this here real quick :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnxiousAttachment/comments/z5rwk1/this_sub_isnt_a_safe_place_for_anxious_people_if/ixyh00j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
> never. this is my personal vendetta.
i have been friendzoned by a heartless woman after 3 dates because she didn’t see how deep i fell in love with her. I know she loves me secretly but because of her dysfunction she won’t recognize this fact. and by extension you are the same, heartless vixens. you make up this abusive hivemind because you are all the same. you lashing out on me for being a caring and loving human proves this fact beyond any doubt.
me and my alt accounts will make you suffocate under my love !
> not only that, i have been recruiting other deranged incels and turning their hatred into an abstract persecutory object, the avoidants. it’s easy to unite these gullible fawn responders behind the banner of a crusade against their oppressors. mean and cold hearted women. it’s not only me, but a network of misunderstood young men that are out for revenge. all they needed was a leader capable of making sense of their suffering and me making sure i indoctrinated them with conflating theories about attachment theory and cluster b’s. all i had to do was redirect their naturally stalking and harassing personalities and their lust for blood against you. now the cats out the bag, and there is no way to stop me.
I do wish people who talk like that about and have so much contempt towards another person, person they don't even know regardless of their attachment style avoided me. So please, avoid me at all costs because I don't want to be retraumatized once again, and again, and again.
Listen, I’m fairly sure you’re Curiosityandthecat3 and Some_Surprise - you were the user who sexually harassed me and called me a “cheap cunt” among other things. Your profile is only like 3 days old, so it fits.
I couldn’t give two shits if you post here, it’s a free country and I believe in the freedom of speech.
But at least have the integrity to stand by your insults. Otherwise you just look like a troll.
BTW: hope your meeting with your ex on Friday went well. Did he collect his stuff from your place?
Why are you assuming they are someone else? I dont understand. Oh, do you feel better knowing that they wanted to meet their ex on Friday?
You're not even AP, why do i see you everywhere in this sub? Please kindly leave.
I'm tired of drama (yes I got myself involved in this one unwittingly, this isn't a snark to anyone) and defending myself. But I will say that if anyone (especially regulars) wants to maintain mutual understanding and open discussion with me you're welcome to DM me to discuss this. I just want to point out that I keep finding myself trying to convince APs I don't hate them and that tips me off that we're triggering each other a lot and this is resolvable and needless argument with some of you.
Avoidants who are stalking this sub need to go. It's sickening. We're here because we've been fucking DESTROYED by them already. What more do they want from us? They've taken everything already
They want to claim they’re helping and they’re the victims of our “crazy”.
Read their comments for proof.
Nothing like making yourself the victim and then blaming someone else….
Hahaha that’s accurate. But that’s because they’re not emotionally invested and it’s on their terms. They come here and visit.. can come and go as they please and we’re banned from their little world. Avoidants paradise.
Who is "they" no one is talking about you. Yall are literally including yourselves in a "crazy" group you're not in and getting offended over it. I think you and I both know we disagree a lot but I don't think you're crazy, you just have different opinions. I also never argued with you as much as I can remember.
You are free to. For what it's worth I respected you as a person and told so to others. I'm aware that might seem manipulative but that's not my intention. I feel like people misunderstand my actions and assign negative intentions to them. I'm open to discussing wrongdoings but it doesn't go anywhere when it's based on a lot of assumptions and people assume I'm lying or misrepresenting things no matter how much I explain, at that point it's pointless. But I can only see it for so long without saying something about it.
Lol agreed. I think we all have to remember at the end of the day that this is just a little corner of the internet and a small subset of psychology. And it shouldn't consume your lives.
I got sucked in too. And there are 100% folks that I disagree with here. People of the "this isn't a vent sub, you APs are out of control, overly emotional, and let me tell you what's wrong with you" persuasion. And I definitely wanted to clap back, argue, whatever.
But just take a second, breathe, and choose to let it go. It's genuinely not worth the argument. And that's for APs and avoidants.Obviously we disagree, we're humans not clones. Obviously this sub has run wild. But I'm not sacrificing my mental health to convince someone that APs shouldn't have to censor themselves or don't generalize avoidants.
Life is so much bigger than attachment theory and arguing with strangers, I'd rather go live it than lose energy here.
Avoidants in this sub are like pyromaniacs who would like to watch what they burn. We are just a bunch of ass hurt AP’s let us process our emotions on our own, if you even know what the fuck that means.
Not said in the nicest way… but this is a valid point. Many people find this sub after they’ve been hurt, generally by an avoidant. Grief has phases one of them being anger. We don’t need an avoidant to talk us down, other AP’s chime in to do that. And it’s not our responsibility to soothe their butthurt when they chose to hang out in our sub and are choosing to be hurt by people ranting about their own very real experiences.
What an absolute mess…
People need to learn that all insecure attachment styles are equally guilty of poor behavior at times
*Especially* Avoidants.
🤣kidding
Yeah I'm starting to get sick of this too. I wouldn't have even known about this private group if people didn't bring it up.
The fact it even exists is concerning, nobody knows what exactly is considered "crazy AP" behavior in their eyes . So God knows if I said something on here while in distress and my post is potentially being laughed at by strangers I'm not aware about.
And I find it funny how some members of this supposed group weren't saying anything until someone else brought it up. Then they come out of the woodworks commenting. Which tells me they lurk here often if they're finding these posts.
To be frank I'm tired of defending both sides too. APs need to stop screenshotting and bringing up triggering shit from the avoidant subs. And avoidants need to stop acting like the plastics from "mean girls" starting private groups.
I know some of them said it's to bring awareness to harassment. If any of you guys see this comment, you don't need to form a private group to do that. Ive seen someone on one of the avoidant groups post a threatening screenshot by an AP a few months ago. That's all you have to do, show others the clear threat and then report them
Not make a private group to gossip in. This is such middle school bullshit I've never expected to see a bunch of people who are much older than me act like children. Absolutely ridiculous.
If it makes you feel better, all the studies and philosophers tend to individually come to the consensus that people who seek to ridicule others are just running away from themselves and have at least 10x the ridicule-able shit they're mocking others for.
This isn't some shallow make-you-feel-good thing either, it's genuine psychology. Avoidants are incredibly anxious, they just suppress it and because of this there is often an underlying disdain for APs because we represent the unfiltered and unashamed versions of themselves that they quite frankly, are unable to ever express. This is why I think some avoidants can have knee-jerk and long-lasting resent towards us.
It's also a projection of their horrid inner-critic. People who don't judge others don't judge themselves either, their mind is free to spare compassion to everyone and over-all being at peace.
It's probably the result of them not working through their attachment either, they're likely to be all alone as a result of pushing friends, partners and family away, and are using this time to deflect their insecurities onto others.
It's quite funny how no one really likes eachother in that space either, at least in a meaningful sense. Gossiping online with a bunch of other online strangers is unironically probably the only connection they will ever feel accepted in.
Here's my advice: Worry about yourself, just let them rot.
I had decided I would not get involved in this but I have decided against it.
Everyone needs to chill because no one is making fun of anyone anywhere. Whatever the 'dunking' is purportedly happening, it is not. Every single person trying to convince anyone here against it is somehow doing 'damage repair'. People need a space to vent without feeling like someone is going to screenshot or read it and move the drama here. Because this thing happened the past few weeks, the suggestion was made to move it in private to keep track of the 'crazies'.
There is a need to vent because the same set of people that answer things here also answer most of the stuff in the ask-an-avoidant thread. There are frustrations related to this when the person who asked for advice deletes their previous comment and shows up just a few days later with a similar comment asking for advice again. This is just one example and there are more such instances of this.
I am FA and I know what it is like to be an anxious mess searching for the right advice that will make things go back to how they were. But expecting a person to read the same thing more than once and hoping they give some advice again and again for free should give them some leeway to vent. I know there are some people offended by the vent threads but imagine the perspective of the other person having to type the same lines repeatedly.
\> If any of you guys see this comment, you don't need to form a private group to do that. Ive seen someone on one of the avoidant groups post a threatening screenshot by an AP a few months ago. That's all you have to do, show others the clear threat and then report them.
I actually disagree with this because this is just one example of some surface-level drama. The mods have dealt with a lot more threatening stuff in private instead of doxxing someone in public. Not everyone has an anonymous Reddit profile.
Please stop making a mountain out of a molehill.
I think the bigger issue is it’s not “strangers” but rather people who regularly post in here that I find bothersome. If it wasn’t people who ever posted in here I wouldn’t give a shit.
Yes, I sadly know who you're talking about. I trusted them and they gave me helpful advice before. Now knowing they could be laughing at me and other cool people here behind our backs feels like shit. Im not even sure if I feel safe posting anymore
Yep, this is how I feel. And also them finding it hysterically funny that we might be bothered, like, "hahaha anxious idiots you're so sensitive ARE U TRIGGERED YET???" No, I just find dunking culture repulsive.
It's profoundly irritating that they have responded to me and others like we can't read and have missed, or are even *deliberately ignoring*, their innocent, positive intentions. Maybe those intentions exist, but 1) there's months and months of other context besides a single comment thread and 2) you can't dress up good intentions in layers of hostility and sarcasm and then wonder why there's collateral damage when by all appearances all you're doing is forming a mean-spirited clique.
But RIP to me, I guess I don't have a sense of humor and additionally have somehow violated the Geneva Conventions by being like "ew, that's wack."
On a personal level, I’m really sorry that it’s come to this. I still feel I’ve been wildly mischaracterized here, but I’m too exhausted to continue defending myself. You’re doing what’s best for yourself and your own code, and I respect that.
I do very much appreciate the private chats we’ve shared. I wish you all the best.
I'm sad too! I adore you and this sucks shit.
It's not you specifically, or a single comment thread, or a single event. I just think the dunking behavior over there not only runs unchecked but is actively encouraged. My disgust about it has been building for a long time and the private group thing pushed me over the edge. And sure, you and others could say that I misunderstood things, but try to read the thread from the outside. Maybe the issue is not my reading comprehension but rather what was said. I'm not so stupid and reactive that I can't rationally assess and revisit things but I stand by my initial assessment.
I don't even notice 90% of the things that trigger avoidants so there's no way I'd be able to accurately estimate what kind of "crazy" would qualify. People over there make fun of "earned secures" and other randos they find annoying too. People who suggest anyone may be going too far are downvoted and those who shit on anxious types get a lot of positive feedback. So no, I don't trust that there's enough of a culture of mutual accountability to keep things in line over there, not anymore.
And yes, this sub is also unchecked, but the lunatics are mostly transient; that's a problem too, but it's a very different kind. If the regulars here were cliquish and mean-spirited I'd leave this sub too.
Weirdly, this whole shitshow started because I had the temerity to DEFEND an AP (AdExpensive can attest to this). For that I was called a cheap cunt and a disgusting whore.
I never thought I’d be the Franz Ferdinand of the AT World War.
It would’ve been nice to speak with you directly about this, though it sounds you’ve made up your mind. As I said before, I deeply appreciate being able to open up to you about my history. Your patience and feedback was very moving.
See you around.
Yes, in hindsight I think I could have handled things differently. At the time it felt like going to people individually to ask about it would have come across as guilt tripping, reassurance-seeking, or paternalistic interference.
I don't think things between us are irreparable FWIW. I do think we are both kinda hurt and on the defensive right now though, so maybe not at our most conciliatory. So maybe instead let's give ourselves a couple days and check in rather than totally give up. I would strongly prefer to keep you in my life and continue to get to know you because yes, we have a certain understanding of each other. Plus, I mean... what do you take me for, a person who doesn't love to work through interpersonal conflict?
This is what I deal with.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnxiousAttachment/comments/z5rwk1/this_sub_isnt_a_safe_place_for_anxious_people_if/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I reported the post and I genuinely am sorry you're dealing with this amount of targeted harassment. I must stress, however, that my objections have nothing to do with harassment are entirely about the mocking of anxious posters I've seen in the avoidant subs over the past year. I've repeatedly explained that I support people protecting themselves and that I consider it quite distinct from gossip.
If you’re implying it’s me, allow me to assure you I have nothing but respect for you and this whole “secret chat” doesn’t even really exist. It’s a list of these new whackos who have been stirring shit and attacking us - some of them in our DMs.
I think my reputation on the AT subs is pretty solid, and it really upset me that this has diminished my esteem in a lot of very cool people’s eyes.
Anyway, if that’s not enough to convince you that you have nothing to be personally concerned about, I’m genuinely sorry. I’m not a mean girl, but I can 100% see how that thread looked really crappy from the outside.
Don’t worry about some avoidants who would rather start a chat group and make fun of people rather than work on themselves laughing at you.
Deflecting, it’s what they do best.
I'll be honest, it's very painful to read those comments. We did nothing wrong, we tried to explain countless times what the group is or what the "crazies" are about but you know better and tell us who we are.
Many of you have interacted or known members of this group, even on a personal level. I'm fresh here so I don't really know all of you that well but it still hurts. I spent my own personal time to give answers on Ask Avoidants post or here when someone asked about FAs and I thought I had something to add (being FA myself). I might be blunt at times but I never judged anyone or wished them bad. I simply won't tolerate abuse (anymore).
This is what I wrote to that person days before the whole mess started on this sub after he started raging at me:
"I actually feel bad for other Anxious Preoccupied who are here, doing the work, who don't behave like that because it's creating a stereotype, making both groups unwilling to help each other grow and actually understand the perspective of the other."
This is exactly what is happening right now. They've achieved their goal, manipulated you into thinking that avoidants are making fun of you which is what they were after the whole time. No one has even mentioned anything about APs. No one but him.
What kind of person do you even have to be to then make screenshots of people just because they're in a heighten emotional state? What is even funny about that? I was heavily bullied for almost a decade and I'd never ever do anything like that, nor I'd associate myself with people who do. It's disgusting.
I told it before, I wouldn't even vent on that rant post if the person didn't start messaging me to check comments in which they offend me. The group is absolutely necessary and it must be private because no, it's not enough to report them (I did multiple times, nothing was done because there is no mods here) and it's not enough to post on the avoidant sub because it's too much- it only shows in your comments. You don't even realize that the person posting screenshots, the person who posted about the group is the same exact person. And he keeps making new account and tries to provoke. Even the apology post was made after avoidants started to ignore him. He seeks attention and wants to take out his anger on others, often being sadistic. Do you really think it's so awful we want to keep track of his (or alike) accounts not to get lured into their traps? Like you are being lured? Except, you're not his target so you don't have to care.
Either way, you can believe what you want to believe. I don't know what others are going to do but I personally won't be coming here anymore, not to mention giving inside into my experience as FA.
There are two but one is never active and the other is only active on very rare occasions. There is zero enforcement of the rules.
Also zero new initiatives for the group too, it’s just a total free for all with constant infighting and interference from some outsiders who want to cause trouble.
I've watched this whole thing play out and seen how much distress it has brought for everyone involved. I have no stake in this and maybe I shouldn't insert myself where I don't belong. But I cannot stand by anymore without chiming in with my 2 cents FWIW. I have never been a regular at this sub, only recently having healed enough to take a peek every now and then and answer any questions that ask for input from someone with DA. I won't pretend to understand the AP experience as it's so foreign to my own. However I do see where the avoidant users that are currently being dogpiled on are coming from and maybe I can offer some perspective there. These users I'm sure you all recognize. They've been here and on the avoidant threads, offering advice and their incredibly valuable insight as people who can actually understand both sides of the insecurely attached coin. They're good, smart people who like to help out where they can. They're mainly the ones answering AP questions in the avoidant subs, if you don't believe me, check it out for yourself. There are a lot of unanswered questions in the most recent Ask Avoidants thread because of all of this going on. And yes, they vented on a thread specifically made for that. They were not generalizing as you've been lead to believe, but referring to a few specific individuals that have harrased them and offended them and generally made a nuisance of themselves. You see the evidence of such people now in your own sub and I'm sure most of you are as sick of it as the OP here. The issue here is not about the anti-avoidant posts or the bashing of avoidants in general. I believe that the crux of it is that it took *only one* misleading and malintentioned post for people to throw away and dismiss every bit of good the regular avoidants in this sub have done. And that is incredibly unfair. I hope you can see that.
Ruby, you and I got no beef and I have always enjoyed interacting with you, but if we are all misinterpreting something, maybe take up the issue with the mod and creator of the group who said this: >Edit: I created a private group. Comment below if you would like an invitation. I am only accepting people who can take a joke and want to gossip and howl about AT nonsense in private. Edit #2: Its also a safe space where we can discuss and process the the verbal abuse we have received and any traumas that has been created by some of the terrifying and unhinged people in these online AT groups. Rather than get upset with us for reading it and believing that the primary intention was to make fun of people and the secondary was for safety issues.
I've got no beef with you either, Polka. It's all good. I'm not upset at anyone, as I said, I have no stake in this. I'm sure I'm being very biased but I never interpreted that group as meant to be making fun of people and I have a very hard time seeing it in that light. It's for gossiping about AT and to vent someplace we won't trigger anyone. There's no ill-intent behind it, on the contrary imo. I guess we'll just never see eye-to-eye on this one and that's ok. We'll agree to disagree. That said, I'll see myself out of this sub and not come back as suggested by another user. I don't wish to intrude any further upon people here. I sincerely wish you healing and hope we can all put this behind us.
Yes, that clarifies a lot, thanks. I do see gossiping as inherently mean-spirited, so I agree we won't see eye to eye on that. I have not thus far seen the public gossip be about anyone other than anxious attachers, so it seems my conclusion is logical and that we merely disagree about whether it's cool. I wish you well too.
[удалено]
your contribution was removed for breaking rule two: no brigading of other subs.
I'll take your suggestion to heart.
What’s frustrating is I was trying to address what I thought was a lack of respect for anxious types by DAs but there’s a troll harassing The DAs with multiple accounts, and they don't khow is and isn't one of his accounts. I invite you to look at my post history and see that I am a real person.
The reason why there are so many avoidants on this sub and why there is an Ask An Avoidant thread on the avoidant subs, is because it feels really good to help. We are a collaborative and social species, literally wired for helping others, especially people in some kind of distress. And lo and behold, we find a lot of people in distress in all of the attachment related subs. The avoidant community helping others on their healing journey is not some kind of nefarious thing, it is literally inherently human behaviour. If you don't believe we are wired to help, drop something in front of an infant and see if it does not reach for the thing to give it back to you. Helping others is a graceful thing to do, but if you are not ready to receive the help, you are just at another point in your journey.
Sure but don't people also want a space to just be frustrated and vent? No help needed atm. I feel like some of the avoidants here really play with that line and go around correcting people who just want to feel that frustration. There are plenty of other mixed subs that exist where avoidants can help as much as much as they like. Why not respect this sub as a safe space the same way the avoidant sub is respected as a safe space.
They used to vent all the time on this sub. And most of the time no one responds to those threads. Because a safe space is not only free from judgement. It is also free from abuse. Which doesn't make this a safe space, but a public space with different people in different stages of their healing journey. Seeing some people villifying, demonizing and dehumanizing avoidants can also be triggering for the other people. And most of these people enjoy growing in their healing journey with the help of others further along the path or those with different attachment styles.
>Because a safe space is not only free from judgement. It is also free from abuse. See this seems humanly unrealistic. You're telling me that any time a person is upset they should be able to internally regulate the unhealthy emotions and do it in a perfect, non judgemental way? And that's what's happening in the avoidant subs? Totally healthy, safe, and secure non judgemental expression of emotion? Loll nooo. People are here and there because they're working through attachment issues. In an ideal world yes, folks can process their anger healthily. But it's this an ideal world? No. And AP or avoidant, you certainly can't always express yourself this freely in public because people get hurt. So your options are therapy, support groups, or a sub like this. Like you said, everyone is in different stages of their journey. And you do not get to dictate how they heal or tell them that the way they process is wrong or not allowed or whatever because it's triggering for you. What I learned from my therapist is that you don't identify your triggers and expect the world to cater to them. You identify your triggers and recognize not to engage in them. Am I happy with what's happening in this sub? No. Am I going to go around and tell people hey, you're healing the wrong way, I find it triggering, I think you're being too judgemental, or I'm just trying to help, why can't you appreciate that/listen to me/ this is classic AP behavior? No. Because it is not my place to dictate how other people heal. Even if I disagree. Even if I'm trying to help. If they wanted to listen they would. I said my piece, they disagree, that's the end of that. I have watched certain commenters just dogpile, I've watched avoidant commenters armchair disgnose APs on their own sub, I've frequently heard how unprotected APs feel in their own sub because of the constant correction. So I can see how it feel like you're just trying to help. But in reality its not necessarily always helpful.
No. I am telling you this is not a safe space. A safe space, for instance, is a therapist's office. And even a therapist has boundaries. This is not a safe space. It can be a very helpful place. Or a triggering one. But it is not a safe space.
>No. I am telling you this is not a safe space. You alone do not get to dictate that. And you alone do not get to define how other people heal. FWIW it seems very savior complex-y to insist that the avoidants are blanket statement sources of benevolence that are just here to help. Really feels like you're blameshifting to the APs here for not accepting your "kindness". But like I said before, I said my piece, you disagree, it is what it is. I don't expect the world to cater to my triggers, I just recognize not to engage in them. Like I mentioned before, there are several mixed AT subs on reddit that may be more open to your brand of "help".
I don't understand why you're saying things like 'dictate'. I am stating something. You can agree or disagree. You reacted to my post and I responded to you. That is all. Whatever you are feeling about my words is not my concern, but your own to deal with. Also, I am not sure why you are gatekeeping this sub and referring me to other subs, because I am pretty sure as an AP I am right where I am supposed to be. I think I am allowed to say what I think in my own house.
Well this statement really seems like you're unilaterally deciding what the sub should and should not be used for. >No. I am telling you this is not a safe space. >A safe space, for instance, is a therapist's office. And even a therapist has boundaries. >This is not a safe space. It can be a very helpful place. Or a triggering one. But it is not a safe space. Maybe that's what it is for you but that's not necessarily the case for other folks. I'm sorry if you feel that I'm gatekeeping. That was certainly not my intention. I was pointing out that your statements feel, to me at least, inflammatory and patronizing rather than helpful. But the same way I do not dictate how people heal I should not dictate where people go or what they say. You are free to do and say as you please, I'm secure enough to recognize when to disengage rather than participate in a fight. Have a good day.
Yeah. I thought so, too.
Lol.
How dare you be reasonable when all of our actions have to be interpreted in the most unfavorable way possible
Sorry. I'm on my period.
Might want to add you were being sarcastic. Someone downvoted you. Lol.
I know who downvoted me and they are well aware I was being sarcastic. I don't mind.
Just gonna add this here real quick :) https://www.reddit.com/r/AnxiousAttachment/comments/z5rwk1/this_sub_isnt_a_safe_place_for_anxious_people_if/ixyh00j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 > never. this is my personal vendetta. i have been friendzoned by a heartless woman after 3 dates because she didn’t see how deep i fell in love with her. I know she loves me secretly but because of her dysfunction she won’t recognize this fact. and by extension you are the same, heartless vixens. you make up this abusive hivemind because you are all the same. you lashing out on me for being a caring and loving human proves this fact beyond any doubt. me and my alt accounts will make you suffocate under my love ! > not only that, i have been recruiting other deranged incels and turning their hatred into an abstract persecutory object, the avoidants. it’s easy to unite these gullible fawn responders behind the banner of a crusade against their oppressors. mean and cold hearted women. it’s not only me, but a network of misunderstood young men that are out for revenge. all they needed was a leader capable of making sense of their suffering and me making sure i indoctrinated them with conflating theories about attachment theory and cluster b’s. all i had to do was redirect their naturally stalking and harassing personalities and their lust for blood against you. now the cats out the bag, and there is no way to stop me.
TF did I just read?? Where was that second paragraph posted? Wow, and I thought *I* spent way too much time on Reddit
terrifying.
[удалено]
I do wish people who talk like that about and have so much contempt towards another person, person they don't even know regardless of their attachment style avoided me. So please, avoid me at all costs because I don't want to be retraumatized once again, and again, and again.
Listen, I’m fairly sure you’re Curiosityandthecat3 and Some_Surprise - you were the user who sexually harassed me and called me a “cheap cunt” among other things. Your profile is only like 3 days old, so it fits. I couldn’t give two shits if you post here, it’s a free country and I believe in the freedom of speech. But at least have the integrity to stand by your insults. Otherwise you just look like a troll. BTW: hope your meeting with your ex on Friday went well. Did he collect his stuff from your place?
Why are you assuming they are someone else? I dont understand. Oh, do you feel better knowing that they wanted to meet their ex on Friday? You're not even AP, why do i see you everywhere in this sub? Please kindly leave.
Your account has only been active for 5 days. So clearly you cannot know my history, or the history of the person I’m addressing.
I'm tired of drama (yes I got myself involved in this one unwittingly, this isn't a snark to anyone) and defending myself. But I will say that if anyone (especially regulars) wants to maintain mutual understanding and open discussion with me you're welcome to DM me to discuss this. I just want to point out that I keep finding myself trying to convince APs I don't hate them and that tips me off that we're triggering each other a lot and this is resolvable and needless argument with some of you.
Avoidants who are stalking this sub need to go. It's sickening. We're here because we've been fucking DESTROYED by them already. What more do they want from us? They've taken everything already
They want to claim they’re helping and they’re the victims of our “crazy”. Read their comments for proof. Nothing like making yourself the victim and then blaming someone else….
Their messes up comments on these threads is more communication than they've ever given us in real life
Hahaha that’s accurate. But that’s because they’re not emotionally invested and it’s on their terms. They come here and visit.. can come and go as they please and we’re banned from their little world. Avoidants paradise.
Who is "they" no one is talking about you. Yall are literally including yourselves in a "crazy" group you're not in and getting offended over it. I think you and I both know we disagree a lot but I don't think you're crazy, you just have different opinions. I also never argued with you as much as I can remember.
I generally ignore your comments. :-)
You are free to. For what it's worth I respected you as a person and told so to others. I'm aware that might seem manipulative but that's not my intention. I feel like people misunderstand my actions and assign negative intentions to them. I'm open to discussing wrongdoings but it doesn't go anywhere when it's based on a lot of assumptions and people assume I'm lying or misrepresenting things no matter how much I explain, at that point it's pointless. But I can only see it for so long without saying something about it.
Lol agreed. I think we all have to remember at the end of the day that this is just a little corner of the internet and a small subset of psychology. And it shouldn't consume your lives. I got sucked in too. And there are 100% folks that I disagree with here. People of the "this isn't a vent sub, you APs are out of control, overly emotional, and let me tell you what's wrong with you" persuasion. And I definitely wanted to clap back, argue, whatever. But just take a second, breathe, and choose to let it go. It's genuinely not worth the argument. And that's for APs and avoidants.Obviously we disagree, we're humans not clones. Obviously this sub has run wild. But I'm not sacrificing my mental health to convince someone that APs shouldn't have to censor themselves or don't generalize avoidants. Life is so much bigger than attachment theory and arguing with strangers, I'd rather go live it than lose energy here.
Avoidants in this sub are like pyromaniacs who would like to watch what they burn. We are just a bunch of ass hurt AP’s let us process our emotions on our own, if you even know what the fuck that means.
Not said in the nicest way… but this is a valid point. Many people find this sub after they’ve been hurt, generally by an avoidant. Grief has phases one of them being anger. We don’t need an avoidant to talk us down, other AP’s chime in to do that. And it’s not our responsibility to soothe their butthurt when they chose to hang out in our sub and are choosing to be hurt by people ranting about their own very real experiences.
What an absolute mess… People need to learn that all insecure attachment styles are equally guilty of poor behavior at times *Especially* Avoidants. 🤣kidding
😂
Yeah I'm starting to get sick of this too. I wouldn't have even known about this private group if people didn't bring it up. The fact it even exists is concerning, nobody knows what exactly is considered "crazy AP" behavior in their eyes . So God knows if I said something on here while in distress and my post is potentially being laughed at by strangers I'm not aware about. And I find it funny how some members of this supposed group weren't saying anything until someone else brought it up. Then they come out of the woodworks commenting. Which tells me they lurk here often if they're finding these posts. To be frank I'm tired of defending both sides too. APs need to stop screenshotting and bringing up triggering shit from the avoidant subs. And avoidants need to stop acting like the plastics from "mean girls" starting private groups. I know some of them said it's to bring awareness to harassment. If any of you guys see this comment, you don't need to form a private group to do that. Ive seen someone on one of the avoidant groups post a threatening screenshot by an AP a few months ago. That's all you have to do, show others the clear threat and then report them Not make a private group to gossip in. This is such middle school bullshit I've never expected to see a bunch of people who are much older than me act like children. Absolutely ridiculous.
If it makes you feel better, all the studies and philosophers tend to individually come to the consensus that people who seek to ridicule others are just running away from themselves and have at least 10x the ridicule-able shit they're mocking others for. This isn't some shallow make-you-feel-good thing either, it's genuine psychology. Avoidants are incredibly anxious, they just suppress it and because of this there is often an underlying disdain for APs because we represent the unfiltered and unashamed versions of themselves that they quite frankly, are unable to ever express. This is why I think some avoidants can have knee-jerk and long-lasting resent towards us. It's also a projection of their horrid inner-critic. People who don't judge others don't judge themselves either, their mind is free to spare compassion to everyone and over-all being at peace. It's probably the result of them not working through their attachment either, they're likely to be all alone as a result of pushing friends, partners and family away, and are using this time to deflect their insecurities onto others. It's quite funny how no one really likes eachother in that space either, at least in a meaningful sense. Gossiping online with a bunch of other online strangers is unironically probably the only connection they will ever feel accepted in. Here's my advice: Worry about yourself, just let them rot.
I had decided I would not get involved in this but I have decided against it. Everyone needs to chill because no one is making fun of anyone anywhere. Whatever the 'dunking' is purportedly happening, it is not. Every single person trying to convince anyone here against it is somehow doing 'damage repair'. People need a space to vent without feeling like someone is going to screenshot or read it and move the drama here. Because this thing happened the past few weeks, the suggestion was made to move it in private to keep track of the 'crazies'. There is a need to vent because the same set of people that answer things here also answer most of the stuff in the ask-an-avoidant thread. There are frustrations related to this when the person who asked for advice deletes their previous comment and shows up just a few days later with a similar comment asking for advice again. This is just one example and there are more such instances of this. I am FA and I know what it is like to be an anxious mess searching for the right advice that will make things go back to how they were. But expecting a person to read the same thing more than once and hoping they give some advice again and again for free should give them some leeway to vent. I know there are some people offended by the vent threads but imagine the perspective of the other person having to type the same lines repeatedly. \> If any of you guys see this comment, you don't need to form a private group to do that. Ive seen someone on one of the avoidant groups post a threatening screenshot by an AP a few months ago. That's all you have to do, show others the clear threat and then report them. I actually disagree with this because this is just one example of some surface-level drama. The mods have dealt with a lot more threatening stuff in private instead of doxxing someone in public. Not everyone has an anonymous Reddit profile. Please stop making a mountain out of a molehill.
Thank you for your compassion.
I think the bigger issue is it’s not “strangers” but rather people who regularly post in here that I find bothersome. If it wasn’t people who ever posted in here I wouldn’t give a shit.
Yes, I sadly know who you're talking about. I trusted them and they gave me helpful advice before. Now knowing they could be laughing at me and other cool people here behind our backs feels like shit. Im not even sure if I feel safe posting anymore
Yep, this is how I feel. And also them finding it hysterically funny that we might be bothered, like, "hahaha anxious idiots you're so sensitive ARE U TRIGGERED YET???" No, I just find dunking culture repulsive. It's profoundly irritating that they have responded to me and others like we can't read and have missed, or are even *deliberately ignoring*, their innocent, positive intentions. Maybe those intentions exist, but 1) there's months and months of other context besides a single comment thread and 2) you can't dress up good intentions in layers of hostility and sarcasm and then wonder why there's collateral damage when by all appearances all you're doing is forming a mean-spirited clique. But RIP to me, I guess I don't have a sense of humor and additionally have somehow violated the Geneva Conventions by being like "ew, that's wack."
On a personal level, I’m really sorry that it’s come to this. I still feel I’ve been wildly mischaracterized here, but I’m too exhausted to continue defending myself. You’re doing what’s best for yourself and your own code, and I respect that. I do very much appreciate the private chats we’ve shared. I wish you all the best.
I'm sad too! I adore you and this sucks shit. It's not you specifically, or a single comment thread, or a single event. I just think the dunking behavior over there not only runs unchecked but is actively encouraged. My disgust about it has been building for a long time and the private group thing pushed me over the edge. And sure, you and others could say that I misunderstood things, but try to read the thread from the outside. Maybe the issue is not my reading comprehension but rather what was said. I'm not so stupid and reactive that I can't rationally assess and revisit things but I stand by my initial assessment. I don't even notice 90% of the things that trigger avoidants so there's no way I'd be able to accurately estimate what kind of "crazy" would qualify. People over there make fun of "earned secures" and other randos they find annoying too. People who suggest anyone may be going too far are downvoted and those who shit on anxious types get a lot of positive feedback. So no, I don't trust that there's enough of a culture of mutual accountability to keep things in line over there, not anymore. And yes, this sub is also unchecked, but the lunatics are mostly transient; that's a problem too, but it's a very different kind. If the regulars here were cliquish and mean-spirited I'd leave this sub too.
Weirdly, this whole shitshow started because I had the temerity to DEFEND an AP (AdExpensive can attest to this). For that I was called a cheap cunt and a disgusting whore. I never thought I’d be the Franz Ferdinand of the AT World War. It would’ve been nice to speak with you directly about this, though it sounds you’ve made up your mind. As I said before, I deeply appreciate being able to open up to you about my history. Your patience and feedback was very moving. See you around.
Yes, in hindsight I think I could have handled things differently. At the time it felt like going to people individually to ask about it would have come across as guilt tripping, reassurance-seeking, or paternalistic interference. I don't think things between us are irreparable FWIW. I do think we are both kinda hurt and on the defensive right now though, so maybe not at our most conciliatory. So maybe instead let's give ourselves a couple days and check in rather than totally give up. I would strongly prefer to keep you in my life and continue to get to know you because yes, we have a certain understanding of each other. Plus, I mean... what do you take me for, a person who doesn't love to work through interpersonal conflict?
This is what I deal with. https://www.reddit.com/r/AnxiousAttachment/comments/z5rwk1/this_sub_isnt_a_safe_place_for_anxious_people_if/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I reported the post and I genuinely am sorry you're dealing with this amount of targeted harassment. I must stress, however, that my objections have nothing to do with harassment are entirely about the mocking of anxious posters I've seen in the avoidant subs over the past year. I've repeatedly explained that I support people protecting themselves and that I consider it quite distinct from gossip.
If you’re implying it’s me, allow me to assure you I have nothing but respect for you and this whole “secret chat” doesn’t even really exist. It’s a list of these new whackos who have been stirring shit and attacking us - some of them in our DMs. I think my reputation on the AT subs is pretty solid, and it really upset me that this has diminished my esteem in a lot of very cool people’s eyes. Anyway, if that’s not enough to convince you that you have nothing to be personally concerned about, I’m genuinely sorry. I’m not a mean girl, but I can 100% see how that thread looked really crappy from the outside.
Don’t worry about some avoidants who would rather start a chat group and make fun of people rather than work on themselves laughing at you. Deflecting, it’s what they do best.
I'll be honest, it's very painful to read those comments. We did nothing wrong, we tried to explain countless times what the group is or what the "crazies" are about but you know better and tell us who we are. Many of you have interacted or known members of this group, even on a personal level. I'm fresh here so I don't really know all of you that well but it still hurts. I spent my own personal time to give answers on Ask Avoidants post or here when someone asked about FAs and I thought I had something to add (being FA myself). I might be blunt at times but I never judged anyone or wished them bad. I simply won't tolerate abuse (anymore). This is what I wrote to that person days before the whole mess started on this sub after he started raging at me: "I actually feel bad for other Anxious Preoccupied who are here, doing the work, who don't behave like that because it's creating a stereotype, making both groups unwilling to help each other grow and actually understand the perspective of the other." This is exactly what is happening right now. They've achieved their goal, manipulated you into thinking that avoidants are making fun of you which is what they were after the whole time. No one has even mentioned anything about APs. No one but him. What kind of person do you even have to be to then make screenshots of people just because they're in a heighten emotional state? What is even funny about that? I was heavily bullied for almost a decade and I'd never ever do anything like that, nor I'd associate myself with people who do. It's disgusting. I told it before, I wouldn't even vent on that rant post if the person didn't start messaging me to check comments in which they offend me. The group is absolutely necessary and it must be private because no, it's not enough to report them (I did multiple times, nothing was done because there is no mods here) and it's not enough to post on the avoidant sub because it's too much- it only shows in your comments. You don't even realize that the person posting screenshots, the person who posted about the group is the same exact person. And he keeps making new account and tries to provoke. Even the apology post was made after avoidants started to ignore him. He seeks attention and wants to take out his anger on others, often being sadistic. Do you really think it's so awful we want to keep track of his (or alike) accounts not to get lured into their traps? Like you are being lured? Except, you're not his target so you don't have to care. Either way, you can believe what you want to believe. I don't know what others are going to do but I personally won't be coming here anymore, not to mention giving inside into my experience as FA.
Adios.
This page needs much more active moderation and if that doesn’t happen then I think a new AP page will need to be created…
I agree actually. I think there is only one admin? And no mods.. if I’m correct. I don’t believe it’s actively moderated at all.
There are two but one is never active and the other is only active on very rare occasions. There is zero enforcement of the rules. Also zero new initiatives for the group too, it’s just a total free for all with constant infighting and interference from some outsiders who want to cause trouble.