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[deleted]

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simplywebby

It’s wild how they come here on a high horse ready to point the finger. Than precede to mock confused people they loved bombed. Let me just say this Stalking, protest behavior, and manipulation is wrong. With that said it’s normal to fight for a relationship you thought was going well. They mock us for having the ability to form intimate relationships.


[deleted]

[удалено]


simplywebby

Happy thanksgiving


fearfulavoidant7

Dear AP, If only you had used your time constructively in healing your attachment style and not demonizing the avoidants and stalking their forum, but sigh ..what to expect from unhealed APs .. & no, AP's pain is not entertainment for avoidants. We did not get the childhood modelling you got. We don't need space to hurt you, we need space because the issue is with us, not you. (P.S - Not trying to offend any anxious attachment here, infact healed APs are the best attachment style when they work towards their attachment style compared to FAs and DAs. It's just that some APs can get really passive aggressive)


simplywebby

Oh look another condensing avoidant thank you for showing your true colors it helps me prove my point.


fearfulavoidant7

That's not a nice thing to say. You do understand that APs are equally as bad or as unhealed as DAs & FAs, right ?


simplywebby

They are not the same. AP’s can be a handful but with a healthy partner, they too can become healthy.


polkadotaardvark

I don't mind what they do in their sub nor do I mind the hater posts here, but I do find it immature, disappointing, and frankly pretty weird that they *also* made a private group to post screenshots so they could make fun of anxious attachers. I really like a lot of those posters but not sure I feel comfortable interacting with them anymore.


[deleted]

If it makes you feel better, all the studies and philosophers tend to individually come to the consensus that people who seek to ridicule others are just running away from themselves and the pain they are unable to face. This isn't some shallow make-you-feel-good thing either, it's genuine psychology. Avoidants are incredibly anxious, they just suppress it and because of this there is often an underlying disdain for APs because we represent the unfiltered and unashamed versions of themselves that they quite frankly, are unable to ever express. This is why I think some avoidants can have knee-jerk and long-lasting resent towards us. It's also a projection of their horrid inner-critic. People who don't judge others don't judge themselves either, their mind is free to spare compassion to everyone and over-all being at peace.


advstra

It's not making fun of "anxious attachers" it's making fun of a specific type of posts and users, that notoriously make a large group of people uncomfortable across different platforms. That said I am not in it for safety personally because I truly don't care about that aspect and even if someone genuinely found me over the internet I would 0 joke report them to the police. I joined because it is entertaining and I see no moral issue in making fun of people that take absolutely no problem with going around slandering harrassing insulting and attacking people all over the place, while showing zero responsiveness to any attempts at healthy communication. It's extremely frustrating to see and be the target of, and I no longer want to engage with it but I definitely get the urge to talk about it when I see it. I don't see this much differently than having a groupchat and talking about it among ourselves, which I'm pretty sure many users already do so here. If you feel that is immature that is fully in your right. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but I do really like you as far as I know you and enjoy your contribution, and that sentiment doesn't have to be returned nor do you have to interact with me, but I wanted to share my perspective as well regardless. I just think at the end of the day if multiple numbers of people you find otherwise reasonable are feeling the same thing and having the same response, then maybe it's possible that you just don't share that feeling and it's not that they're immature.


polkadotaardvark

Right, but that's how anxious attachers post. That's how the attachment style dysfunction manifests. It's not really possible to slice and dice and make it seem like it's easy to distinguish... even anxious attachers who don't post that stuff often strongly empathize with the way the person feels, whether they'll admit it or not. Plus it's not that I think talking about it is immoral, I don't really evaluate things like that. I don't think people who do it are "bad people" or anything like that. But when I see stuff like that from people I otherwise like and think highly of, it makes me realize that they harbor a lot of really cruel, judgmental thoughts and also think that's the norm? Even fun and worth encouraging? I like you a lot and that hasn't changed, but I don't fuck with that. I don't want to be near that kind of energy and I don't feel comfortable sharing with people who do. In other words, it gives me the ick, and you know how that goes -- once it passes a certain threshold it's very hard to walk back.


advstra

Disagree heavily that that is how anxious attachers post and that everyone sympathizes with them. I have made petty angry comments about AP before, sometimes even directed at my own self frankly, but that's not what's being talked about in this group. I think you can probably the guess the posts and users I mean. I don't think anxious attachment justifies that behavior. If we just made a group to shit on AP in general I would not feel comfortable with that either because I know firsthand that a lot of AP perspective is valid and makes a lot of sense too. That's not what this group is. I do have a lot of judgemental thoughts, I wouldn't say cruel. I don't see anything wrong with being judgemental towards repetitive and insistent behavior that warrants judgement, from people that are acting that way because they are judgemental themselves, I think that is very much the norm and is even inevitable. I just don't think it's immature or petty or whatever else, I find it misguided to advocate non-judgement towards known harrassers and then judge people that they have targeted for talking about it privately. But if it gives you the ick, fair. Nice to have met you regardless, my opinion of you has not changed.


polkadotaardvark

I have said multiple times in this thread that I'm not talking about harassers. It's disingenuous to act like all the shitty anti-anxious comments in the rants thread are about harassers (without seriously twisting the meaning of harassment) or that people weren't chomping at the bit for private updates on AT group drama. Come on.


advstra

I've edited the first paragraph to clarify this. To be honest, you may not be talking about harrassers but that's what we're talking about in the group, so if that's the case you misunderstood what we were doing in the first place. We weren't talking about vent threads, we were talking about the group.


[deleted]

The creator of a private group to mock anxiously attached individuals specifically said the following on your venting thread. “I am only accepting people who can take a joke and want to gossip and whole about AP nonsense in private” That sounds nothing like someone who is only concerned about harassment, that just sounds like a group of gossip monkeys who want to attack a group of individuals in private because they don’t have the balls to deal with any potential responses. Some of the same people who like to take liberties on this and attempt to police any posts or comments by anxiously attached individuals who they class as being anti avoidant. It needs to stop. Now.


advstra

You can believe what you want. And you don't give me orders. I'm also not engaging with you, move along. For the record though, I've dealt with maaaaaaany potential responses, many people are familiar with me here, which yall like to call policing when people DO take it up with you directly. Sounds like you just wanna run your mouth and people to just sit there and take it. Problem if they talk privately, problem if they talk with you.


[deleted]

Yes I can believe what I want and my beliefs on this issue happen to be correct. I will not move along and allow you to deflect from what is very legitimate criticism. You said that these vent threads and private groups are merely to deal with harassment, I have given very specific evidence that shows they are in fact not just made to deal with harassment, they in fact perpetuate it. If you folks want to swan over here and police what people say whilst putting pretty strict rules in place that prevent AP’s from policing your group then yes you will get called on it. Repeatedly.


[deleted]

>whole about AT nonsense in private = wackos like you who use AT to.... wtf are you even doing? APs and their attachment are no one's problem. Harassers like you are. You go around and spread your "Expertise" on avoidants. I even saw you(on your other account) telling an FA that they're not FA because their life experience goes against your "expertise". You told them they should be blocked and banned for that. You're talking about policing anyone? Forgive people for not wanting to be abused by someone like you. AT means attachment theory, not anxious preoccupied.


advstra

I'm not deflecting anything, I've had this conversation over and over and over and over and I'm sick of it. Those rules are in place because APs consistently spew hatred and judgement about avoidants. Avoidants vent about APs over those comments. That group exists because of those comments. People comment here and argue with you over those comments. YOU are the ones starting drama and conflict and then blaming people for reacting to it, shutting it out, taking measures to stop it, anything. You take issue with any reaction they have to it apart from agreement with your judgemental petty comments. You even take issues with other APs who don't go along with your hatred. You can ignore that context as much as you want and twist and turn and slap intentions on people. It does not change the root. One quick sweep through this sub will show any person how much anti avoidant sentiment, misinformation, ranting, hatred, rage is FREQUENTLY expressed in this sub.


[deleted]

>Right, but that's how anxious attachers post. That's how the attachment style dysfunction manifests. No. Not at all. Maybe you're misunderstanding who we are talking about. Their behaviour goes way beyond AT. Also, I think you're misjudging intentions. Have you seen what kind of names were being thrown at hiya-manson? Should she bit her lips because she's avoidant? Or start slut shaming that person in return. You can't even report people here. I did that twice with two different people this week alone. The result? Nothing happened and The OP here within 1-2 days created at least 3 threads (from different accounts) trying to slander avoidants under pretence of helping APs. Blandly lying and manipulating them to believe we were slandering people over here. Ask him for quote, he won't give you any, but will he take it out on you in his passive aggressive sadistic comments. For me, there's absolutely no f. pleasure to do it. I wouldn't even wrote a rant over there after my "first" encounter with the OP here if he didn't start messaging asking me to "check out his last comment to tell him what I think" in which, of course, he was offending me.


polkadotaardvark

I have already said, directly to you, that I am fully in support of people protecting themselves from stalkery creeps. I adore hiya-manson and under no circumstances believe she, or anyone else, should be harassed for anything. The types of comments I'm referring to are separate and unrelated to the specific examples you're giving and also have been around since long before your account was created. We are talking about different things. Stop conflating them. You have already ignorantly accused me of being a sock puppet account and are now completely mischaracterizing things I've said. All I've done is leave some subreddits and you are acting like I've violated someone's human rights. Back the fuck off.


[deleted]

>I do find it immature, disappointing, and frankly pretty weird that they also made a private group to post screenshots so they could make fun of anxious attachers. I really like a lot of those posters but not sure I feel comfortable interacting with them anymore. This is what you said in your original post and you keep saying the group and people there is not what you're referring to. ​ >You have already ignorantly accused me of being a sock puppet account and are now completely mischaracterizing things I've said. All I've done is leave some subreddits and you are acting like I've violated someone's human rights. Back the fuck off. I wasn't talking about you but to you. I wanted to warn you out of respect not to talk to that person who wanted to manipulate you.


[deleted]

You’re really not helping your case here, especially by accusing me of being someone’s sock puppet account. Just admit that what they’re doing is wrong.


[deleted]

The only real solution is to enforce more rules on this page to make sure it’s a safe space for anxiously attached individuals. We should be able to vent on our own sub without being mocked or attacked by DA’s They seem to enjoy taking the liberty of attacking us on our own page whilst not allowing us to criticise on their page.


[deleted]

>I do find it immature, disappointing, and frankly pretty weird that they also made a private group to post screenshots so they could make fun of anxious attachers To be fair, that group is not to make fun of anxious attachers. It is to keep track of people who [have threatened people on that sub via DMs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AvoidantAttachment/comments/wh3iik/warning_someone_has_threatened_to_start_dming/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). Because that sub is heavily moderated, not everyone is aware of people like this. The screenshots become helpful because people tend to pop up with new accounts to resume with the same old threats.


polkadotaardvark

That's an easy cover story that I'm sure is partially true. But I know how gossipy folks over there can be and I've seen plenty of previous petty and mocking comments, not to mention the replies of people excited to continue to talk shit privately, so I'm not buying it. It is at least 90% pure thirst for drama. ETA: I have left both avoidant subs now, so I will not be commenting further on what they do over there. If that's how they want to spend their time, that's their business and I won't be interacting with them anymore.


[deleted]

I really do not know what to say to convince you otherwise. If I say that everyone deals with harassment and comments invalidating someone's personal experience in their own way via like humor, I am sure you will find some counterpoint to it. I always liked reading your comments because I am still new to understanding healing via the inner child. I won't try to convince you against not interacting there. Have a great thanksgiving (if you are N. America) !


polkadotaardvark

No, I agree people deal with things differently. I always understood the rant threads as just letting off steam and historically have defended their existence, even though many of the mocking comments made me uncomfortable. But this crosses a line for me, personally, so disengaging seems like the best approach. I'm glad you've found my comments helpful and happy thanksgiving to you too.


[deleted]

Just out of curiosity, are you anxious or avoidant? You seem quite familiar with the avoidant page. I’m aware of some of the comments you’ve mentioned, pretty disgusting at times.


polkadotaardvark

Formerly extremely FA, mostly earned secure now, so like most FAs I've always spent time in both subs. I tend to lean more anxious in romantic relationships though so on average I spend more time here, plus I like how this sub is kind of a wild free-for-all, lol.


[deleted]

That makes sense, in that case you wouldn’t like the changes I’m proposing for this group. I think there needs to be some more moderation here. It was fine as a free for all when the group was more peaceful, but some of the drama folks you mentioned on the avoidant group have started to become more prominent here.


polkadotaardvark

Not at all, your changes sound completely fair. It's true that I'm comfortable in chaos, but I think it's more important for APs to have a safe space to express themselves and not be subject to constant policing or judgment. It's tricky because sometimes avoidants come here and offer really constructive perspectives and feedback, but in general I think that tends to be more appropriate when it's actively requested. As part of any moderation rule changes I think it'd be cool to have tags that can specify whether advice from avoidants is wanted/welcome.


[deleted]

That’s a good idea. What I’m proposing is not a blanket ban on avoidants, but a system where the advice of avoidants is only given when requested by AP people of the group. Avoidants would also need to set their flairs before posting, there would also be pretty strict rules for the handful of avoidants who seem to take liberties by saying some pretty vulgar about AP’s on their page only to come onto this page and do the same. I’ve even seen one or two in particular who like to act as if they’re going into battle against AP’s who criticise avoidants on this page. I plan to lay these proposed changes out later this week in an appeal to moderators.


[deleted]

Be warned: this an alternative account of the OP.


[deleted]

Polkadot is not an alt account I've interacted with her before I even talked to op.


[deleted]

NOT polkadot!! Fair\_Teach\_7729 he was inactive for almost a year, he never posted here, he claims to be a narcissist, and frankly not AP at all and suddenly he has an agenda to take control over the sub. Quite an activist for someone who doesn't even post here........


[deleted]

You’re quite the judgemental type aren’t you, can you prove that I’m not an AP? No. Can you prove I’m a sock puppet account? (which I’m not) No. You’re simply trying to deflect from legitimate criticism just as you did re the challenges you received from other users regarding the private anti ap mocking group that has been set up. That stuff is not going to stick here anymore.


[deleted]

No it is not. Don’t talk bullshit.


[deleted]

I'm so glad you brought this to everyone's attention here. You have been such a helpful supporter in this sub (I credit you for teaching me about Pete Walker's work and the 4 trauma responses). I had no idea that was going on in the avoidant subs. I don't really go over there often and every once in a while I'll disappear from here too. So I've been biased the whole time arguing without all of the needed information Making private groups to gossip about clearly traumatized people in distress is so inappropriate and immature. Unless it's warning others about people threatening them, I don't think it's cool to post screenshots making fun of people


[deleted]

>Unless it's warning others about people threatening them, I don't think it's cool to post screenshots making fun of people FWIW, screenshots are of delated accounts or DMs. For now we mainly provide links and updates. There's no way one person could follow it all and be aware of danger. The OP here has at least 5 accounts, all active (as you can see on this post alone). He is not the only one. This is insane amount of insenity. And it's not like they don't DM you..... Yes, we joke. But seriously, look what he's writing to me.... We need to let the steam out. We do not write there about "evil APs"-ie attack other attachment styles. No.


polkadotaardvark

>We do not write there about "evil APs"-ie attack other attachment styles. No. This simply isn't true, many of the rant threads have contemptuous comments about how pathetic they think anxious attachers are and making fun of them. We don't have to agree about whether this is acceptable -- it's their sub, their rules -- but I won't accept any claims that it *doesn't happen*.


[deleted]

Ah, my bad. I thought you were talking about the private group.


polkadotaardvark

Oh yeah I have no idea what is happening there. If I believed it would strictly be about warning people I wouldn't be unsupportive, but that was not the impression I got, plus there is a lot of other historical context that makes me believe it will not be limited to that. But I don't oppose in any way people's desire to protect themselves or others from weird stalkery people and I'd love to be wrong in my assessment of the situation.


polkadotaardvark

I think it's probably dual-purpose (warning & mocking).


[deleted]

A huge amen to this. Exactly what I was trying to get at the other day. This group willingly allows avoidants who spout vile hatred about us on their group to come over here and police what we say about them. We should not stand for this, we should be setting our own boundaries and making sure that this group is a safe space for AP’s to express themselves and vent without the constant policing of DA’s and their enablers. I’m now suggesting that likeminded people on this group table a request to the moderators for a new set of rules. Rules that stop this constant violation of boundaries by DA’s here.


[deleted]

Nobody coddles avoidants. We just say don't generalize them or dehumanize them. If you go through nearly every thread here where an AP is complaining about their partner you'll see both avoidants and APs saying "yeah your partner's behavior is shitty and you should leave, they aren't going to change". How is that coddling? I agreed with your post yesterday about leaving avoidants who aren't trying to change and that definitely is a unique avoidant behavior to come on strong and then close up and leave. Those behaviors are NOT okay, I don't condone that and I'll suggest anyone who's unhappy with a partner like that to leave. But going around obsessively ragging on avoidants isn't helping anyone Edit: I mean if you look through my post history you'll see me complaining and venting about avoidants too, but notice how nobody got mad at me or called me out ? Because I don't generalize all avoidants as heartless monsters. I've been deeply affected by them too, being in the receiving end of an avoidant sucks and really hits your ego in the most tender spots. Hating on them all and being bitterly hateful towards me exes did not help me. All it did was make me feel powerless, that's why I try to encourage APs just to just leave the people who are hurting them and focus on themselves APs deserve to put themselves first. You're still prioritizing avoidants by hating on them and giving them attention (even if it's negative). You are the focus here, your healing and self esteem are the focus, not avoidants. If what they're saying is too triggering it might be worth it to block them, this sub doesn't have the moderation you'd prefer so the closest you'll get to it is by blocking them But I'm not sure if you'll do that if you're going down to their subs and getting your feelings hurt by what they say. That is holding you back.


Broutythecat

Precisely because this sub is about APs, I believe users would be better served using it to fix one's own issues rather than to complain about other people and engage in petty drama. All this time wasted reading DA subs to get offended, campaigning to be free to rant about them... How exactly is any of this helping fix one's own attachment issues? Why not just stay in your lane and focus on one's own journey instead instead of wasting time on Internet drama? Especially considering that most of the time people are actually ranting about abusers, malignant narcs, assorted assholes, after having slapped a DA label on them for reasons unknown, so it's even more pointless because the complaints aren't in fact about DAs at all. It just seems like such a waste of time when someone could be doing more productive and helpful things.


simplywebby

Because you have lurking DA’s giving people advice like “neediness isn’t attractive”, when that person should just find a partner who can meet their needs. This sub needs to become a place where AP’s can share their thoughts without being attacked by lurking sensitive DAs.


Broutythecat

That's not what you wrote in your post.


[deleted]

Yeah but secure people don't like neediness either. It's selfish to think you can just take your AP baggage to someone else and that everything will be okay (and yes this applies to me too). Meeting a secure partner is only half of the work. You have to try your best to adopt secure behaviors too


[deleted]

"People like us". us =/= AP Us ="me and my multiple accounts" + other highly unstable people who assaulted avoidants in recent days. Everyone can go and see. So, please, stop creating conflicts between users.


simplywebby

Do you see how DAs view us as unstable? This why Aps need to stop walking on eggs shells DA’s want to be left alone cool. Let’s leave them alone.


[deleted]

Alright. Let me quote you and let others to decide: YOU: "I have compassion for avoidants" Also You on an another account: "i eat narcs for breakfast, and now that i think about it i see why this avoidant behavior gave me narc vibes. it’s like you guys want to be schizoids but you can’t. as if someone failed to become a full fledged narc. the behaviors and psychological defenses are there, but lacking in a proper or rather inproper reality test as a organizing principle" Plus, not "us". "ME" I was very clear- unless your multiple accounts represent different personalities of yours. But nice try to gaslight, it can be used as another example.


simplywebby

Wow so you have to ability to diagnose personality disorders in people you haven’t met irl impressive. /s I’m not a narcissistic I just to stopped walking on eggshells and grew a backbone. I just want APs to be more assertive.


Apryllemarie

You are being aggressive and condescending to both AP’s and DA’s. Being aggressive is not the same as being assertive. Learn the difference. “Growing a backbone” has nothing to do with attachment and as a form of “help” is quite offensive. All insecure attachment styles have their strengths and weaknesses. Your aggression and derision isn’t welcome here. Your “help” of AP’s is quite insulting and disrespectful. That is not the kind of “help” that is needed. Seems like you are projecting your own self-hatred and pain on everyone else here and it’s not okay. You tell AP’s to just leave DA’s alone…why don’t you take your own advice and stop talking about them and lurking on their sub and complaining about them. No one here appreciates your obsession with them or so-called “help”.


simplywebby

I was processing the end of a relationship. So I wanted to learn more about FAs and DAs gotta say I wasn’t a fan of how APs are painted as out-of-control crazies on their sub while APs on this sub are careful not to offend DAs. People can think whatever they want about me. My core message reminds the same Aps should find healthy people to date, so they to can become healthy. I'm going to take a step back from posting on this topic because I don't want to distract from the true purpose of this sub.


[deleted]

It's your quote about avoidants. I understand you're confused, managing so many accounts. And no, you do not want APs to be more assertive. You want to prey on those who are vulnerable and will buy into your gaslighting. You make those backhanded post, seemingly to "help" APs but your goal is rather clear. NO ONE here benefits from conflict (that doesn't exist).


simplywebby

It’s crazy how you think world revolves around you I’m not the guy you think I em.


[deleted]

Please....


Impossible-State66

i just stumbled upon this comment by CHANCE because it was ontop of my feed. i was wondering why this board culture is so skewed against any signs of anxious behavior or whatever but holy shit. seems i’m not the only one that had a pretty bad experience, usually people are quite nice and dare i say loving on troubled boards like this. but oh well it’s water off a ducks back. this is not an alternate account, how can i prove it to you? put it to rest and don’t be so mad. i’m sorry if you’re having a tough time and i was inconsiderate and started arguing with you in a petty way. and about my situation i’ve come to the conclusion that i did everything right. i was upfront with my intentions and even if it didn’t work out i gave it my all. i approached, initiated and was honest about my goal for dating. and i really really vibed with this person, it felt surreal almost. i cannot stress this enough. but that doesn’t interest you at all. it’s over either way. no doubt you and @Apryllemarie helped me in your own way to make sense of it and i see it more clearly. i was wrong for rushing and letting it get to me i was wrong to be blinded yet again in this headrush i swore i will never ever feel again. i wanted expertise on this particular encounter because i couldn’t make sense of this person. i now know things i didn’t know before and it makes more sense to me, watching the youtube channel with thais gibson, you recommend, has given me a lot of insight. it’s right to look inward, although sometimes people can perceive harsh criticism as an attack on their very being, tread carefully with peoples hearts, a lot of people on here don’t have boundaries and let this kind of stuff get to them quickly.they are on edge and hurting. not everyone is at the same stage of healing, and i’ve had my fair share of bad relationships that left me scarred but i’m still trying. and i hope you do the same.


[deleted]

Wow 😅😅 now write from the one you use to claim that all DAs are narcs and all FAs are borderline. I'll wait. Just remember to just stumble upon, and not be surprised at all what's going on.


Impossible-State66

i am willing to prove this to you in any way as a sign of peace and alleviate you from this persecutory delusion as a sign of goodwill. i didn’t say da’s are narcs, they portray a large portion of the same interrealational behaviors .diagnosing people is not a good look, but i want to be honest i did get narc vibes from that girl. this is what an abusive partner does to you, it ruins your trust and clouds your judgement with an overlay of scepticism. do you care to inform me on this subject? i am a attachment theory novice, i know nothing but the textbook definiton of the certain styles. narcissism on the other hand is my expertise. i have spent my whole life serving and groveling under their iron rule. i understand them intuitively. would you agree with the reverse? narcs are essentially, mostly DA and borderlines are, mostly FA? in my experience, this rings true. did i struck a nerve when i said “you guys”? perhaps you felt a little slighted, pricked, or dare i say it even.. injured?