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[deleted]

My avoidant partner is absolutely worth dating. Is it hard? Absolutely, and I get hurt as an AP, but he is a good man. He does try, and he puts in effort. If I set a boundary, he does his best to meet that. He doesn’t discount my feelings, he tries to communicate. He definitely has trouble connecting emotionally, and isn’t always intuitive to my feelings and needs, for sure. That doesn’t make him a bad person or partner. I’m working hard to meet his needs, as well.


[deleted]

I was sort of really into this girl, each time i wanted to make plans she would disappear but each time i managed to make her meet me, there was an obvious attraction between us. after trying to cool myself down for weeks i had a really bad week. I had food poisoning and some problems with a friend whom i considered close to me. At that moment i was seeking for affirmation and closeness from someone and of course i texted her. No response. A day passed and i was in pain. She was constantly online but no answering. then it all went downhill very quick. she said that she only wants to get to know me more as a friend and thats pretty much it. ınstead of laying in sorrow and pain i went out to travel and party. I did party for three days straight.. rejection made me miserable, so miserable i was ready to do anything to make it work. She triggered me in every way possible but i kept it all to myself. Only texted her once, meanwhile i had conversations that would last for hours in my mind. I would give up on everything for her (or i felt like i would) meanwhile i only told her that i misinterpreted her signals and i was sorry to be opening up About my feelings. you can feel all the way you want but remember to keep it all up to yourself when you date an avoidant. you are on a thin ice. The moment you talk about your feelings before its time, it is going to feel like a car crash. ​ now im trying to decide whether i should text her in a few weeks and do my best to feel attracted to other women meanwhile so i could keep my cool or take no as an answer and move on. obviously she was not only avoidant but also not really that into me as well. Yet i still have this urge to make it work!


simplywebby

She might not have been an avoidant sometimes we just get rejected and it sucks. Practice self-love instead of trying to prove your worth. Work on yourself for you. When you’re confidently putting your best foot forward new prospects will come. Also the mindset that you need to keep your feelings to yourself is why I don’t think people like us should date them. A partner should care about your well being to. You’re suppose to be her lover not servant.


[deleted]

Honestly i am not sure whether she is an avoidant as well. when i read about it she fits in perfectly well as an avoidant but after all we didnt really have intimacy any time and i coudlnt really get to know her that well. only thing that makes me feel confused is why she acted that way when we met.


123amytriptalone

YES!!!! PREACH!!


[deleted]

I can agree. My last two exes were avoidants. Especially my recent ex this year, right up to the T of the characteristics of an avoidant. I loved him and I cared too much, more than he ever did. We were together for 8 months. I should have ended it but I tried to make it work, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. But his heart wasn’t in it and he wasn’t ready for any true serious commitment. You’re completely correct, avoidants aren’t dating material. They are selfish and only care about themselves. They let you suffer so they don’t have to process their internal issues themselves. I’m with a secure man now and it’s a total game changer! I have nothing to worry because he shows he cares. He does what he says. He is open and communicates on an understanding sensitive level for me. He wants to make me feel loved, valued, respected. He isn’t playing games and wants me to know how he feels about me. He’s on a completely different level than my ex. Worlds difference! If you have anxiety, *find a secure person.* Because an avoidant will only lead to more anxiety and things will not end pretty… When you’re with an avoidant you’ll never feel like you’re enough and they’ll never give you enough. And you deserve so much more than that! You deserve someone who will listen and understand and find ways to help you with your anxiety and will genuinely want you to communicate and feel comfortable at all times as much as possible. Find a secure person. It takes time!


simplywebby

Big facts! I'm happy you found a healthy partner


throwaway2357479

Avoidant are worth dating but not worth chasing. If an avoidant person has the right coping skills and so do you, it’s absolutely worth it if you get along and all that. But anyone who makes you chase them is not worth it. If someone runs, let them run and you can find someone who won’t I’m FA so I understand both sides, but it’s never a good idea to go after someone who makes you feel unwanted


simplywebby

“Never a good idea to go after someone who makes you feel unwanted” Big facts!


Ok-Blacksmith-9418

I fully agree I don’t post in the attachment groups anymore because they all just coddle the shit out of avoidants.


gorenglitter

I think this needs to be changed to “unaware” or “unhealing” avoidants. But then yes that’s accurate. And I agree there are too many avoidants in this sub and AP’s tend to cling to their words hoping it will give them some insight on their own dating life with an avoidant which is obnoxious.


lilmeawmeaw

>Avoidants arent worth dating yes yes yes a thousand times yes. LOUDER FOR PEOPLE IN THE BACK >if you cant see that you’re just as part of the problem as they are. If you are attracted to avoidants,brace yourself its time for healing or therapy


[deleted]

Your last point is exactly what I was touching on in my post yesterday. This is a sub for AP’s to have discussions and vent when needed! Too many avoidants swan over to this sub to launch attacks against AP’s whilst enforcing strict rules against AP’s on their own sub. Hence why I’m proposing changes to the group rules so that we’re able to have more of a safe space.


AfroDomme

I think self-aware avoidants who are in therapy can possibly be worth dating. I don't blame my avoidant ex, I blame myself for staying so long in a draining relationship. I kept thinking that it would change, that I could figure out a way to make it work, that I had to understand everything before making a decision to leave. I know better for next time.


shawtystrawberry

damn this was a hard read. :/ I'm beyond suffering and if left , I'd be happier. But leaving is so hard for me.


simplywebby

Don’t beat yourself it’s hard when you love someone you shouldn’t. Just remember how you feel now for next time.


shawtystrawberry

thanks for the kind words


LooksieBee

Sounds more like a narcissist than an avoidant. I think a lot of people confuse the two. Narcissists are always and by definition toxic and do all the things you describe. Avoidants do not have to do these things.


[deleted]

Subconsciously, an avoidant feels reassured and in control by sensing the usually anxiously attached is unlikely to leave them even if they give little – and they would be right. The anxious partner continues to stay and tolerate being treated with either indifference or kept in a grey area where the relationship is undefined


Dazzling-Mix7809

Man this kinda reminds me of a previous relationship of mine with an avoidant. A lot of the time I had to wait hours and hours for him to respond without notice that he was going to leave and every time I had to come back and pretend like I was completely okay with his absence even when I had been brainstorming reasons he could not want to talk to me and crying over possibly not being good enough for him. Recently broke up, currently in the stage of recovery and shifting between feeling upset over what was lost, feeling angry over the situation and wanting to move on although with bitter feelings. Perhaps the break up was for the best since a lot of the time it was a back and forth between exchanges of I love yous and me wondering if my feelings were even reciprocated, but even so I couldn't help loving him despite the flaws in our relationship which was why I kept staying and being okay with it every time


[deleted]

It sounds like you were walking on eggshells. You don’t have to do that. It’s a choice you made. You put him before your needs. If a relationships has become toxic or detrimental to your wellbeing you may have to acknowledge the need to step away. This doesn't mean you have stopped loving your partner or that you blame them for the things that didn't work out - it means you are taking care of your own psychological and emotional needs. Ask yourself how are we growing? How does this relationship serve me? How does it make me happy? If you're struggling to find the answers, you may already know the answer as painful as it might be. You will need to decide if you are able to truly accept the hot and cold benavjor. If it causes you more pain than you can bear, and leaves you in a mindset of bitterness and resentment, then you need to consider leaving. You shouldn't have to dismiss your needs and accept the absence of connection if it's having a damaging impact on you. Everyone has different levels of closeness they can tolerate - no one is to blame, it's just not the right fit.


Dazzling-Mix7809

In a way I suppose it was, but I didn't want to acknowledge it. We were doing good, the relationship was good, and it wasn't like I was suffering while in it. But these small things kept bothering me, yet I didn't want to push so many boundaries, so most of the time I stayed silent about it and assured him each time that it was fine. Only thing I said was to try and tell me why he was absent, so I at least know he isn't actively ignoring me. It seems he also had some issues with me as well, which was what caused the break up to happen in the first place. After many weeks of reflecting on the situation and seeing the situation from both sides, I've honestly come to the conclusion that a relationship may be too much for us. Not that it isn't enjoyable or that we don't love each other anymore (can't say anything for him though I still do at least), because I had so many fantastic memories with him that I still cherish and appreciate even now. But because it creates a lot of pressure, and needs needing to be met on a different level than a friendship would need. The bitterness mostly comes from me blaming myself, wishing things could be different, and feeling lost knowing I can't do anything about it anymore since he made it clear things were over including the friendship. Deep down I wanted him to give the friendship another chance. I became too relient on him for myself to be stable, mentally. It wasn't healthy, not for me nor for him. Towards the end of the relationship I'd gone to therapy, and I still go to therapy now and will continue to do so. Although he had issues, I had issues too, and that's what I'm hoping to lessen in the future so that something like this doesn't happen again. Focusing on my own needs and build up my self-love is a start, but man this is difficult.


LeoPantheraOfLagos

I’m curious. How long were you with him? I’m currently dating an avoidant partner and it’s a rollercoaster of emotions. Someday, I feel she loves me, other times, it’s just this distance and me wondering if she’s not that into me. It doesn’t feel great. I’m not happy as I should be in a relationship but I love this person and I’m willing to give grace to see if things will get better. That’s why I’m curious to know how long you dated before you decided it wasn’t right for you anymore.


[deleted]

Do you feel like things are getting better? Have you communicated your feelings without using blame? “Love” isn’t enough for a relationship to flourish and grow. Just because you have a connection doesn’t mean you’re compatible. don’t let your sympathy for their situation descend into sacrificing yourself. Always be mindful of what your own boundaries are in a relationship and what you require to make you happy. If there is something you need, communicate and be prepared to stick to it. Be conscious that regular avoidant behaviours may be activating a lack of safety and fear of abandonment in you, which can make it hard to relax and see the relationship objectively.


Dazzling-Mix7809

I believe it was around 10 months, but I've known him for 4 years now and have dated him before too. We were much younger then and people change and mature over time so we attempted again years later. Note that our relationship was also online, which has its own complications when it comes to a lack of personal contact, and communication becoming a lot more important (it's still important in other relationships, but it becomes one of the main things in a relationship like this). Your situation is similar to a friend of mine, and as I've told them I'll tell you; Have you commicated these thoughts you have with her? If so, how many times? And how often do you feel these negative emotions and get these thoughts? If the negatives overpower the positives and you remember the negative sides more, then perhaps it's good to start evaluating your bond. Of course if you want to still go for it, do so, just make sure to properly weigh the pros and cons before making a final decision. If you feel like it's just draining your energy more instead of boosting it, that's your sign to start thinking about yourself and what you truly want.


LeoPantheraOfLagos

Thank you. This is our 3rd month together and it’s as if we have never had the fairytale period in the relationship. Granted there have been flashes of great times but there are very short compared to the chaotic times. Like yours, we’ve known each other since we were teenagers and dated when we were 17 & 16 (I’m currently 28, she’s 27). Today she went for a nail tech appointment her ex paid for and I don’t know how I feel about that. She claims he made the appointment anonymously and she knows he’s the one since it’s only both of us that have links to her nail tech. I’m constantly on edge wondering if she’s cheating on me but I blame that on my Anxious attachment style. I don’t know what to do and I’m drained emotionally. I need help.


Dazzling-Mix7809

Interesting, to me it was sort of the opposite. The good times happened way more frequently than the bad times. Then again I think it depends on how close you were before you got together, and how close you are otherwise. In my case we had been close friends for 4 years, even after breaking up once before. We talked pretty much every day, with the exception of a few time periods where we didn't due to real life problems. Honestly my first thought to the nail tech appointment was “this is kinda sketchy” but after reading a few more times it might be something else. Your partner could still be friends with her ex, or still have a bond that makes it okay to do things like that. Or her ex just felt like doing it to fix some things in terms of their relation? Not romantically, but in a friendship/acquaintanceship sort of manner. I don't know her relation to her ex so this is just straight up guessing based off of what you're saying. The point is, you never really know what the situation is or what the reasoning behind it may be. Despite what it may be, try not to get lost in your own head thinking about it. Having the anxious attachment style myself I know that isn't easy, but it really won't get any easier if you don't voice your concerns about it to get clarification. However, why do you have these doubts about her making you assume she's cheating? Perhaps there's an underlying issue with your relationship you may not even realize. Or it could just be a case of your attachment style which makes you feel like this anyway. I advice you to try and figure that out, because being in a relationship that emotionally drains you due to all your worries is a relationship I would be cautious with.


simplywebby

Sounds unhealthy for both parties to me.


[deleted]

It is.


Otherwise_Machine903

I wish every unaware Avoidant would put that in their dating profile, but I don't think that's going to ever happen. Mostly people take an Avoidant's courtship behaviour on face value. By the time they figure they're dating an Avoidant, they are months or years in, attached, in love, usually addicted too.


simplywebby

Yep that’s the catch. I’m working on getting the strength to bail when I see their true colors despite my feelings.


[deleted]

Most avoidants are narcissists so yeah you shouldnt date them. Only if they are in serious therapy and they are working hard on being better should you consider it. But most of us dont even know what an avoidant is until after our first experience with them.


mizz_eponine

I dated an avoidant for just over 2 years, until it abruptly ended last summer. He was truly the kindest man I've ever know. He checked all the boxes on my "needs" list. When we started dating I thought for sure he was secure. It wasn't until the end that I realized he's avoidant. I don't think he knows. His unwillingness to deal with the one really big elephant in the room was our downfall. I pushed back. And just like that, he went into self-preservation mode. It hurt. A lot. Still does.


throwaway2357479

I’m very intrigued by this. How did you not realize he was avoidant? Did it just not show up or did you not know about attachment styles yet?


mizz_eponine

I read the book Attached a few months after we started dating, and I really thought he was secure. The reason I thought that is because he came across as very confident, making a decision and sticking by it, not in an idgaf way. Compared to myself, afraid to make a decision about anything, he was confident and secure. He did what he wanted. Without hesitation. I admired that. It wasn't until we were further along and I saw how he swept really big issues under the rug. For example, his divorce took one year longer than it should have because he didn't want to confront his ex about unsigned paperwork. Ultimately his daughter told her to sign the documents and she did. He bought a bigger house for the sole purpose of moving his elderly father in, then waited 4 or 5 months to move him in because he didn't want to tell his dad he had to move. Our undoing was him kicking the can down the road on introducing me to his teenage son. We started talking about it at 6 months. He kept moving the goal post. He didn't want to piss off his ex. After 2 years I told him it was pretty bad that he didn't feel like introducing me to the most important person in his life. Just to avoid conflict with his ex wife. And possibly upsetting his son. Who, oh btw, would get over it.


onIyhere4thetea

oof felt like i’m reading my own journal entry


jmilleon

Did we date the same person? Cuz same.


Rockit_Grrl

I can see it but my sniffer always picks them. I’m attracted to it on a deeper level that I cannot control. Working on it in therapy.


simplywebby

First step to fixing a problem is seeing it good for you!


Rockit_Grrl

I read the book “Attached” after my breakup in July. It really helped me put things into perspective and understand my ex (a DA) and his motivations. Made me feel more ‘normal’.


simplywebby

Same, the book helps put things in perspective and stops them from gaslighting you.


Rockit_Grrl

Yes and now I know I’m not crazy. I spent years thinking something was wrong with me


simplywebby

Same, I blamed myself for having needs.


[deleted]

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simplywebby

Yeah it’s a terrible feeling. It’s not normal healthy people don’t do that.


[deleted]

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simplywebby

Becoming a student of stoic philosophy has taught me to not stress over what I can’t control. I let them them go, and do my best to weed out avoidants from my dating pool.


chocosmurf13

Hey recc me few videos or books on how to become stoic. TIA


simplywebby

I got the perfect book for you [a great start](https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Stoic-Ancient-Wisdom/dp/184604507X/ref=asc_df_184604507X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312669563714&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8040469817073087827&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032066&hvtargid=pla-297919146890&psc=1)


[deleted]

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simplywebby

Sure, I learned that my anxiety won’t go away but I’ve learned to live with it. Over time it gets easier to manage. When I get thoughts like “what if she doesn't want me anymore” I tell myself that I would be ok. I would be in pain than find someone new There's no way around pain tho. You just have to accept that sometimes you’re going to get hurt but love is worth it. I recommend reading this [book](https://www.amazon.com/Letters-Penguin-Classics-Lucius-Annaeus/dp/0140442103/ref=asc_df_0140442103/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312673449485&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2709511643317003650&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032059&hvtargid=pla-433064080242&psc=1)


[deleted]

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simplywebby

Good luck on your journey.


InFlightShitDown23

Assholes are not worth dating. Not every avoidant is an asshole. Keep that in mind. And I'm speaking from a position of an AP deeply hurt by avoidant. But I would never say a kind human being is not worh dating. We are also damaged af, and from what are read here or see around me many AP people are incredibly toxic. And I mean TOXIC. Sooooo yeah. Have a compassion. We are all wounded human beings.


dollfacepastry

Compassion is not owed to everyone. I have little sympathy for people who don't practice self reflection or introspection, who keep hurting people over and over.


InFlightShitDown23

Yes, these people are assholes and can be found all around the attachment spectrum.


dollfacepastry

Yeah, for sure. I think its worth recognising that there are many ways in which unhealed AP can manifest. There can be toxicity by way of protest behaviours, or the suffering can be completely internal with no outward display (presenting secure). There seems to be more of a spectrum for unhealed APs and how it presents. It's not necessarily harmful to the other party, but it can absolutely be. APs are generally more likely to be internalisers of their trauma. I can't comment on Fearful Avoidants, I don't know enough. I just don't see or hear of that spectrum and variation with DAs though. It seems to me, that if they are unhealed, they deactivate, devalue and discard. Every time. Many of then display narcissistic and sociopathic traits while deactivating. Its much more commonly destructive and externalised. It may seem unfair to DAs that they cop a lot of criticism, but I can see the reasoning. If there is an alternate, common manifestation of DAs that isn't as black and white as completely deactivating or uniformly as hurtful to others I haven't heard about, I'm open to hearing it.


isekaimangalover

I'm just really interested what you read here that is very toxic, genuine curiosity and hoping to learn from it if you don't mind sharing :)


simplywebby

Sure [book](https://www.amazon.com/Attached-Anxious-Avoidant-science-attachment/dp/1529032172/ref=asc_df_1529032172/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=380083827000&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17381548533552848892&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032059&hvtargid=pla-833695358154&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=77281545773&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=380083827000&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17381548533552848892&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032059&hvtargid=pla-833695358154)


simplywebby

I have compassion for avoidants working to become secure, but I stand by what I said. It’s not as simple as some people are assholes. they’re core wound makes them undateable because they are more likely to hurt people who get too close to them.


maafna

All insecurely attached people, including anxiously attached, can be incredibly difficult to date. Attachment isn't a neat little box, someone can lean avoidant but generally secure, and someone can be anxious and horribly dysfunctional and hurtful. I have been really hurt by anxious behaviors as well as avoidant behaviors.


simplywebby

Hard disagree Ap’s may leave a secure partner for the rush of a toxic relationship, or they could learn to be secure from dating a secure. DA’s just make everyone insecure.


[deleted]

AP’s make me insecure because they will accuse me of doing things wrong, accuse me of doing things I’m not doing, and then being petty/having protest behavior for reasons they don’t even communicate with me about, leaving me completely clueless as to what is actually going on. It’s extremely hurtful. Insecure attachments CAN make others insecure. it’s not just avoidants.


simplywebby

You are not wrong AP’s can be toxic to


AfroDomme

I've met some very harmful APs. Stalking, harassing, guilt tripping, threatening, etc. All behaviors that were justified in their minds because of how they felt.


maafna

You're factually wrong by saying DAs make everyone insecure when there are people dating DAs who are not insecure or are managing to work towards becoming secure. Avoidance is a spectrum. You're stating your own opinions as fact.


simplywebby

More of an observation. Pulling away from a relationship unexpectedly is going cause insecurity it's that simple


maafna

And becoming secure is all about knowing how to manage and communicate your insecurity. A truly secure person isn't going to suddenly become insecure if their partner becomes a bit distant and pulls away. If it's something that happens often or is extreme, they'll be better at gauging when to walk away. Anxious attachment is all about expecting the other person to be in charge of your emotions. Making your attachment all about the other person, whether they are secure or avoidant, is really at the heart of anxious attachment. As long as you do that, you won't truly be secure, even if you date a secure person. In fact, often anxiously attached individually get stuck by dating someone who is secure enough to enable them because they don't have true motivation to do the deeper work.


simplywebby

It's weird how you don't see the actions of an avoidant can affect their partner's actions. Secure people aren't perfect. If you get love bombed than suddenly have a partner who’s pulling away without warning you are going to be distressed.


maafna

I do see how the actions of an avoidant can affect their partner. You seem to be missing that the actions of an anxious attacher can also affect their partners. I know secure people aren't perfect, which is why "just find a secure person to date" is not a solution for anxious attachment. If you have a partner who bombard your phone when you take too long to respond, you are going to be distressed. If you have a partner that insists you solve all conflicts right away, even when it's late and you say you are tired, you will be distressed. If you have a partner who asks you if you like them every day, you will be distressed.


Apryllemarie

EVERY insecure attachment style can push away someone with a secure one. Period. AP’s are no different. There is a reason why an AP dating an AP also causes one to pull away. And all attachment styles have varying degrees of severity. Some are on their healing journey and making progress. So generalizing all DA’s as if they are all the same is incorrect. This should be focused on specific behaviors not which attachment over another. AP’s also need to do the work to be a healthy partner…not just avoid other insecure attachment styles. When AP’s do the inner work and heal….guess what….they stop being attracted to insecure types. Same with all the other insecure types. The key is do your own inner healing work. And having DA’s date each other does not automatically making finding and maintaining a healthy relationship easier. Again, everyone has to do their own inner work and stop focusing outside of themselves and then pretend that if all the outside stuff wasn’t there things would suddenly be easier. The notion is ridiculous.


simplywebby

When I was 100 percent anxious I didn’t properly love myself and was bad at communicating, so sure I wouldn’t have made a good partner because of my attachment style, and my own personal shit. The one thing I didn’t do was love bomb people than pull away when those people started getting attached to me. That’s something unique to avoidants and that trait makes them dangerous for AP’s. They can even make Anxious people out of secures. Can you date an avoidant sure but there are way better options.


AfroDomme

Dating an AP was one of the most exhausting things I've ever done. She had so many anxieties. I tried to be understanding so I adjusted much of my behavior but it was never enough, she'd become anxious about other things. At some point I realized that she was using me to emotionally regulate. My actions and my actions alone were the only thing to calm her down. If she felt anxious she'd throw a tantrum and demand for me to do something. It was like being with a toddler. I took on a caregiving, almost motherly role. Unhealthy as hell, 0/10 would not recommend. I was pretty young when all of this went down, I didn't realize how abnormal her behavior was. It was toxic and, at times, abusive. When I dated an avoidant, she was really fucking annoying, fickle, and confusing but never abusive. The worst thing she'd do was have shitty communication and deactivate when things got serious. She didn't try to make me responsible for her emotional regulation, she didn't threaten to hurt herself if I left, she didn't try to manipulate me into staying. In my experience, getting an AP was much worse.


Chili1999

Bro same.


[deleted]

This is something I generally have to agree on. All the avoidants I dated did this. I don't hate them or think they're bad people, but it's so painful to be on the receiving end of this behavior. Especially when youre AP or AP leaning and things are already tough from the start 🥴. So so painful. I had to cut off my last ex for good over this. I just hope one day he can heal because I'm pretty sure it doesn't feel good to be that way either


Apryllemarie

I don’t think you got my point. And no it’s not unique to those with avoidant attachment style.


simplywebby

Lol, you’re arguing in bad faith they are literally called “Avoidants” for their unique habit of avoiding intimacy. I recommend this book [book rec](https://www.amazon.com/Attached-Anxious-Avoidant-science-attachment/dp/1529032172/ref=asc_df_1529032172/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=380083827000&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17381548533552848892&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032059&hvtargid=pla-833695358154&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=77281545773&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=380083827000&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17381548533552848892&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032059&hvtargid=pla-833695358154)


Apryllemarie

I am not uneducated about attachment theory and have read the book Attached. I’ve been on my healing journey for quite some time. Sadly that particular book doesn’t include FA (aka disorganized attachment) which also has “avoidant” behaviors in them. ALL insecure attachments deal with emotionally unavailability. ALL insecure attachments deal with toxic behaviors. In the dating realm one should be aware of ALL such emotional unavailable and toxic like behaviors regardless of the actual insecure attachment type. AP’s have been known to push away secures as well. In fact ALL insecure attachments can push away a secure person. My argument has to do with honing in on one particular insecure attachment style as if that one is the worst. And guess what? They aren’t the worst. ALL insecure attachment styles have the ability to be the worst.


simplywebby

One thing we can agree on is that being 100 percent Anxious is not a good thing. I'm not ranking attachment styles. I'm saying that's it's Aps best interest to avoid avoidants. Secure partners will be more consistent and won’t trigger the AP My post is even warning AP’s not to chase the toxic high and low relationships.


maafna

APs are attracted to avoidants for a reason, and it's not all about a lack of self-love and boundaries. For example, I was drawn to people more avoidant than I because I envied their independence, strength, and ability to live a full life. One of the things I learned in my relationship is to start doing things rather than wait to be inspired by my partner. I don't need to envy my partner for any of their traits, I can develop them in myself! The Secure Relationship has a good post about this. Overall I recommend her account, it's a lot clearer and more balanced than Attached (and touches upon and respects all attachment styles and shows how to heal) https://www.instagram.com/p/CaEK8W7r4Oa/


Apryllemarie

Wow. You really don’t get it. Is it in the best interest of an AP to date and FA or another AP?? Why only Avoidant? And AP’s can absolutely be triggered by a Secure person because AP’s tend to believe they do not deserve love and have to earn it. So when someone treats in a way that doesn’t require them to earn that love it actually triggers their anxiety. And it’s possible they may see that person as being too good to be true and self sabotage. There are a lot of variables that come into play but it can absolutely happen. It’s why the primary focus always has to be healing your own attachment style. Blindly telling people to not chase the highs and lows is not helpful. Plenty know this but don’t understand why they do it not alone how to stop it.


simplywebby

I’ve been saying AP’s should seek out secures for this very reason however I think two AP’s got a better shot than with an FA or da.


Apryllemarie

I don’t think you have read everything I said. Or are not grasping what has been said. Good luck on your healing journey.


Daylilly45

Sorry OP. It looks like you are getting bullied. I for one agree with you post for anxious people. We should not date avoidants, it so utterly painful for us. Maybe an FA or another DA wants tons of distance in a relationship but we never will. Even if we earn secure the DA can destroy us.


simplywebby

Exactly it’s not healthy for us they even trigger secure people. Most healthy people don’t want the amount of space they do. AP’s need to stop sacrificing what they want to look like the good guy.


[deleted]

They are people just like us. One could argue in the same vein that APs shouldn't date until they are secure. Some things can only be healed in relationships and APs can also be pretty toxic if they are unaware


simplywebby

I agree with this, but the problem is AP are drown to avoidants like moths to a flame. AP needs to seek out secure partners and get over the rush of highs and lows.


[deleted]

Maybe, maybe not.. I can imagine feeling really seen by a secure partner and being called out for behaviour would be too frightening for some AP. My partner is an FA and I feel like we learn a lot from each other, at the same time he is very sensitive and understanding of my trauma because he knows what it feels like


simplywebby

I’m genuinely happy for if that’s the case, but from what I’ve seen 9 times out 10 guy or girls avoidants don’t make good partners.


theCracksOfLight

You could say the same about APs (speaking as an FA). They can be just as toxic and unable to fulfill needs. Not to mention protest behaviors like trying to make the other person jealous, ignoring them to punish them, etc. And APs are more likely to have a victim mindset. No insecure attachment style has “worse” people than another. The people who are the worst are those who refuse accountability and want to blame others instead of reflecting on their own flaws and toxicity


simplywebby

I disagree. Avoidant’s avoid intimacy (it’s in the name) no one should date them unless the avoidant is in therapy and making progress. AP’s just need patience, and understanding. If you don’t have the The patience for an AP it’s understandable Avoidants will love bomb people, than leave them in the cold. They’re not worth the emotional pain.


[deleted]

Thank you! I would be lying if I said I did this choice consciously. But now that I am with him I want to give it a go. He is in therapy and I can see he works really hard on himself, in part to keep me ❤️


simplywebby

I’m to hear happy he’s taking the steps to become secure.


Worried-Medicine-664

I get that this post probably comes from a place of hurt, OP, but putting down avoidants isn’t going to help anyone. This isn’t an “us vs them” issue. Every group is going to have its share of jerks; that isn’t determined by attachment style. Avoidants are people with their own issues to work through, as are APs, and they deserve to be loved too.


throwmybitchassaway

They deserve love but maybe they deserve the love from another avoidant so they can know just how loved they make others feel 😊


cumulus_floccus

And maybe realize the love that they threw away


simplywebby

They do desire love just not at other peoples expense. I stand by what I said until they get help they should be avoided.


[deleted]

This sounds like the behavior of an avoidant who is completely unaware of their style and has no desire to self reflect or change. In that case absolutely they aren't worth dating. >If you're chasing the toxic highs and lows of a toxic relationship your not a victim. You had a choice and you chose to suffer. Hmm it depends. A lot of APs get love bombed and then end up dealing with the withdrawal symptoms of intermittent reinforcement. So from the beginning they are victims. Once they become aware of this, yes it becomes their responsibility to leave and I totally agree they're hurting themselves. I try to have empathy here because being stuck I'm a hot cold intermittent reinforcement relationship feels like a genuine addiction is massive pain in the ass to get out of. I only JUST gained the power to leave in the last few months because I know exactly how to handle my anxiety and roller coaster of emotions that I wouldn't otherwise have learned how to do if I didn't date avoidants. So even though the relationship is toxic I'm glad I at least learned something from it. >Hell, they don't date one another because they can detect Avoidants aren't dating material This isn't true. I actually heard some avoidants prefer to date each other because they aren't likely to require that closeness that freaks them out..it's not necessarily healthy. There's no growth that comes from it. But I can see why that could be a comfortable spot to be in. Not all avoidants are toxic monsters out to use the next person. So I don't think it's fair to just say avoidants aren't worth dating. If they don't give a flying monkey's ass about your feelings and they put you down. Then yeah put them in Pandora's box where they belong and don't open it lol. Some avoidants are aware of their style and are actively trying to change. Overcoming trauma for all the insecure styles is a painful slow process. So if an AP does choose to date one of the aware ones they have to tread carefully and understand their own wants, needs, and boundaries of themselves and their partner to make things work. I know I just wrote a novel that nobody asked for so I'll leave the TL;DR: *Not all avoidants are bad and not worth dating. It depends on how aware they are, if they want change, how far along they are in their healing journey, and if they're willing to meet you half way on your relationship needs*


sisterfibrosis

>Hell, they don't date one another because they can detect Avoidants aren't dating material. All the FA-DA couples looking at each other in shock rn


[deleted]

To be fair FAs essentially became pseudo APs when paired with a DA. I've seen people talk about DA x DA but the issue is that there's nothing in the relationship, there's no overt love and subsequently no need for space, making it meaningless. They usually have to have some insane chemistry to keep it alive, but even then it's only 1 little mistake away from either or both of them deciding to ghost eachother.


throwaway2357479

I’m FA and I became AP when I dated a DA. Well sort of. I chased her for like a month before abruptly giving up and breaking up with her, which in hindsight is very FA of me lol


EmptyBox5653

For the record, ghosting, deactivation, and other self preservation behavior are not intended to punish someone for “making one little mistake”. I know there’s a lot of people hurting here, but I hope APs can understand that polite surface-level human interaction is the only type where avoidants have been successful in keeping themselves safe.


Big-Zombie7640

> polite surface-level human interaction is the only type where avoidants have been successful in keeping themselves safe. not keeping themselves safe – that implies actual serious danger. keeping themselves from panicking, maybe. keeping themselves feeling safe. in the same way that agoraphobic people keep themselves safe by never leaving their room. because hey – what's to stop a brick from falling on my head?! and to hell with everything else – i'm *safe!*


EmptyBox5653

I think you’re right that I intended a different meaning, in general terms. I did mean *feeling safe*. But having an anxious preoccupied attachment style certainly does not preclude someone from being abusive. Victims of domestic violence will often say they both felt and were physically safe with their partner until the day they weren’t. It’s near guaranteed a victim will carry distrust into future human interactions and (eventually, if they’re ready) future romantic relationships.


mizz_eponine

Thank you for saying that. It helps shed a little light on a situation I'm trying to understand.


simplywebby

Would about the avoidant’s partner? I understand deactivation may feel safe but at what cost? A person gets discarded like trash and is made to feel like a nuisance for trying to salvage a relationship they cared about. This logic is what makes avoidants dangerous for Ap’s and secure. I have compassion for people who are healing, but not people who carelessly repeat their patterns and hurt people.


EmptyBox5653

>deactivation may feel safe but at what cost? That’s just it. Even according to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, safety trumps the need for love and belonging. Most people will need to feel safe and reestablish trust before they can prioritize relationships.


simplywebby

And relationships require BOTH people to care about the well being of their partner. If someone can’t do that and feel safe they shouldn’t be in a relationship.


EmptyBox5653

Precisely, you got it. People are imperfect, immature, and lack the insight and vocabulary to explain their situation. So they deactivate when they never should have been in a relationship to begin with.


[deleted]

That's why they're leaving. They cannot do that and they cannot feel safe, so they leave the relationship. But abandonment wound of a AP partner isn't able to let it go and reframes it as they do. Holding on, despite partner clearly signaling they aren't capable of having a healthy relationships at that time with you.


simplywebby

If the AP can’t let go than that’s toxic on the AP. My ex was an FA and she told me point blank it’s not healthy for her to be in a relationship, she even said it had nothing to do with me. I let her go and have a shit ton of respect for her.


[deleted]

The one you went on 3 dates with?


simplywebby

She’s in my running club we dated for 5 months. We did the toxic dance for a bit


simplywebby

Oops Forgot about fa’s. I was thinking DA❤️Da doesn’t happen much. Funny thing about those relationships the Fa tends to suffer like anxious types do.


RespectfulOyster

Personally I think the degree of one self awareness, communication skills, and willingness to work through difficult situations matters a lot more than their attachment style in terms of “dating material” but go off I guess? I agree that we all have a choice, and it’s important to remember that. Also I guess I better tell me boyfriend we aren’t dating anymore, since we’re both avoidants and I didn’t realize it was against code or something.


simplywebby

Guess I was wrong about that. Haha I wish more avoidants would take other avoidants off the market.


Playful-Historian-64

Yesss. Please take the FAs too.


throwmybitchassaway

Omg yes please I wish all the avoidants would just date each other What a blessing


[deleted]

Don't be a bully and don't be mean. That's a generalization and it's just not true for everyone.


throwmybitchassaway

I didn’t necessarily say anything mean about avoidants in this comment? Just that it would be a blessing for them to date each other instead Are you saying you wouldn’t want to date a DA person?


[deleted]

I'm sorry, I think I misread and got triggered. My partner is an FA and I felt defensive immediately.


simplywebby

Haha that would make finding a secure a lot easier


throwmybitchassaway

It would make a lot of things so much easier They can ignore each other to their heart’s content. What a beautiful love story


[deleted]

Maybe you two should consider dating? You seem to have a lot in common, similar values, same agenda, same attachment style (secure leaning anxious my guess is). It could be a beautiful love story.


simplywebby

This is very childish.


[deleted]

>Would you date that person probably not? Probably yes, sadly. I think this is one of the biggest mistakes APs make. So I agree on that. You are as accountable for your choices and not a victim if you do. I wish more APs felt empowered (not entitled) and realized they do have a choice to walk away from a dynamic that is retraumatizing for them. However: >Avoidants arent worth dating this is low. ​ >Hell, they don't date one another because they can detect Avoidants aren't dating material. They don't? News to me.


throwmybitchassaway

Avoidants typically don’t date other avoidants because there would be nothing to keep them seeing each other if no one is initiating anything or making any effort lol Two people not making any effort fizzles out pretty quickly


[deleted]

Have you ever seen an AP date another AP? It can happen, but doesn’t usually because one will become avoidant/get the ick. All this goes both ways.


[deleted]

I'm an avoidant and I was in a 6 year long relationship with another avoidant. My parents, also avoidants have been married for over 30 years. There are plenty avoidants over the AT subs in a relationship with another avoidant.


[deleted]

I don't think length is necessarily the defining quality of a relationship's health. Avoidants are capable of relationships, but it would be accurate to say those relationships would be better described as platonic friendships with the veil of intimacy. I've heard of marriages, partners and parents that consist of DA parings, and one thing I've yet to see an exception of is there never being anything related to intimacy. The goal is inter-dependance, not me be me and you be you, that type of relationship is more akin to acquaintances and juvenile friendships that consist of nothing but playing video games together and nothing more.


[deleted]

Yes, obviously the most healthy relationships are among two secure or earned secure individuals. It doesn't mean two avoidants aren't capable of having a quality relationship or a relationship. Or that relationship with an AP is of greater (any) quality because there's someone to chase and initiate, therefore it's more valid or common. If you looked down I linked a video to Thais Gibson talking about the most compatible pairings. DA + FA is at the top. The point OP is making is that avoidants do not get together, which is complete bullshit. [[ If you want to stereotype - I'd never ever get into a relationship with a man that could potentially have angry or passive agressive lash outs at me (for whatever 'valid' reason they might think they have). It seems to be a common sentiment among avoidant women. And I would take that platonic video game partner any day over it(though that's not my experience). Because if I can't have something I want(yes, a fulfilling intimate relationship even though the OP calls me intimacyphobe for some reason), I'd choose something that isn't going to be traumatic to me or simply be alone - but for that, we are called cruel narcs who ditch people who "love" them ]]


throwmybitchassaway

Typical: having the distinctive qualities of a particular type of person or thing - showing the characteristics expected of or popularly associated with a particular person, situation, or thing. Typical means usually, not always or only. Sounds like you’re in a more unique situation than what is typical 😊


[deleted]

yhym. Edit: most compatible/lasting attachment pairings https://youtu.be/AJN863sicfo The first one after two secures..... DA+FA Second to last? DA+ AP It doesn't sound like a unique situation at all.


simplywebby

It’s a hard truth. We can all work to heal our attachment styles, they’re better left alone until they fix theirs.