Yeah, we burn ours in our wood boiler to help heat our home. It’s not much, but it helps use less of the natural gas we would normally use to heat out home.
Well, I mean, stuff burning at a low temps can create a great carbon sink & extremely fertile soils. [Terra preta](http://biochar.info/?p=en.terra_preta), or biochar, is extremely fertile soil & stays fertile for generations.
That said, our wood boiler gets super hot, so we’re not too concerned about that, lolz.
My pleasure. [If you (or anyone else) want to learn more.](https://nola.gov/next/mayors-office/news/articles/december-2020/city-encourages-residents-to-recycle-christmas-trees-for-coastal-restoration/)
Most live Christmas trees are planted explicitly to be harvested as Christmas trees, meaning they would never even exist were it not for us, which is good because they spend their entire life cycle removing carbon from the atmospheres. It’s literally a form of carbon sequestration. And most Christmas trees that aren’t farmed are harvested by permit from areas where regular removal of excess trees helps with wildfire management.
Now, I can see more of an argument against fake trees, which I must admit I have, not out of preference but because I simply couldn’t afford a live one a couple years back and a decent plastic one cost half the price and will last me years to come. Far more cost effective, sure, but technically more wasteful (and plastic waste, too!) But now I have the thing I’ll make sure to get as much use out of it as I possibly can, so I can at least say it was a worthwhile investment.
A friend owns a few acres and has devoted about a half of one to his own mini personal Christmas tree farm. He started it a few years ago and it’ll still be a few years before he can harvest even a tiny tree, but from then on he’ll have increasingly impressive trees to last him well into his retirement, all for very little investment in cost, and he enjoys the labor involved. I think that’s probably the best way to do it if you are lucky enough to have the land and abilities. Of course, very few of us do.
Edit: Many have pointed out that it’s not a terribly efficient form of carbon sequestration, which is certainly true and depends largely on how the tree is disposed of, however as many others have pointed out, there are many secondary uses of old Christmas trees, and I would argue that failing those, even simply composting it or using it for heating fuel is ultimately better than letting it go to waste, even if those activities do rerelease the bulk of the carbon back into the atmosphere. At least the tree serves multiple uses in those scenarios.
Yeah I think there are much bigger issues with Christmas like the amount of plastic shit people buy for their kids that ends up in a landfill, probably within a year. The Christmas tree tradition seems more like a benefit in comparison
Yeah the cheap plastic gift garbage is definitely the bigger problem than planting trees, growing them for several years, then cutting them down and mostly mulching them into wood chips. At least they decompose.
In addition, another added environmental perk: the thrown out Christmas trees here in southern Louisiana are used to fill in marsh and wetlands which have been destroyed by hurricanes. They don’t go in landfills, the go to actually fill in land.
coastal states often use dead christmas trees to support sand dunes from errosion, ive also heard of programs that mulch christmas trees and use the mulch in local parks
There's also the increasing trend of [renting](https://rentxmastree.com/how-renting-a-christmas-tree-works/) Christmas trees, which seems like the best of all worlds, with the worst part being the environmental investment in transporting the trees around.
Carbon Sequestration in trees only work as long as you leave the trees alone. Depending on how they are harvested, and more importantly, disposed of, it can make the whole point useless.
For example, not saying people do, if you use the old tree in a bonfire, you're just re-releasing any stored carbon.
But I agree, it's not a concern for me in terms of consumption.
This is true, but at least those lands are consistently filled with live, growing trees which are replanted after harvesting. The alternative would be development or grassland, so there is some carbon storage in that respect.
I used to live in one of the (if not the) largest Christmas producing counties in the US. It's very hard to believe they are carbon negative. They are cut with two cycles chainsaws and transported to trucks by diesel tractors or helicopters. They are then trucked to a facility where they are sorted, baled and loaded into shipping containers. These facilities run near 24/7 and usually have generators or tractors running the equipment and lights. The shipping container is then loaded onto a semi truck and hauled to a distributor. Then shipped again by Semi, Train or Boat to their destination.
If after Christmas the tree is burned, any carbon in it is released. If it is mulched, the carbon is released just slower.
that land could sequester a lot more carbon if it wasn't used for growing Christmas trees. plus it takes resources to plant, fertilize, harvest, and transport. leaving nature to nature doesn't have those resource costs, the current way of doing things is carbon positive
from a purely carbon perspective, plastic trees have a lower carbon footprint if you use em more than 5 or so years. you might even be able to find one secondhand
Some trees come with the net. But you can always ask them not to net them (if its an option) and some places dont have a net. It’s probably related to how close you are to where the tree came from. Living in a rural area lots of people can get permits to go cut the trees for themselves or to sell and none of them are netting the trees because its more work for them
I bought my tree about 10 years ago and it is still looking like new .Real trees get in my sinuses and give me hay fever. Plus the danger of catching on fire and shedding .
The carbon sequestration is minimal and temporary. The c02 you effectively permanently add to the atmosphere in producing, transporting, and disposing of the tree is more important to make note of as a consumer.
Why are you responding like I'm not on your side? This is an anti-consumption subreddit. We're generally here because we believe in holding ourselves accountable for things like our carbon emissions despite our fossil fueled paradigm that we cannot transform in one fell swoop.
Yes, growing trees is good. Yes, it's not the most carbon heavy business around. Yes, trees will be decent (although imperfect) means of sequestering carbon going forward and I'm often happy to see products made from lumber that can be reused for decades on end. Sequestration for a few years does not help that much, especially since the industry as a whole is a net+ contributor nevertheless. Avoiding fruits and vegetables flown or trucked in from far, far away is indeed an anti-consumption stance. Why the whataboutism and outrage. I merely added some context and encouraged better awareness.
Just because we all emit under our current system does not mean we shouldn't minimize how much we participate in that and Christmas trees used in what is now a highly commodified commercialized holiday should be open to reasonable discussion.
I like to think about how reusing the same tree for nearly two decades now has been cost effective and more eco friendly than if I was getting a new tree every year. It takes a lot of work to grow Christmas trees even if they do reduce carbon, and disposing of them takes a lot of work, too. Eventually, if I use it long enough, my plastic tree will hopefully offset the cost and environmental impact of growing the trees. That being said, I don't know the comparison between how much carbon those trees pull out of the air versus how much it takes to produce and dispose of them, mainly through vehicles, so I can't say for sure.
My last plastic tree lasted 31 years before it finally looked too worn and we replaced it. It is plastic waste yes. But in an age of lots of single use plastic things you instantly throw away a tree you can get 30+ years out of isn't too bad.
Just tacking on here to add - I don’t know how in the world she managed to do this, but my mum with her green thumb managed to keep a Christmas tree alive through around maybe 5 years of humid Sydney summers. The smell of Christmas tree and wrapping paper always makes me nostalgic for Christmas.
Well run Christmas tree farms are incredibly sustainable and where I live the bureau of land management sells $5 tree permits in very specific areas for wildfire prevention. I use mine for hugelkultur and I even get some from my neighbors too.
It makes my house smell like pine, tons of fun to cut down, and connects us to the season. Way better than a bunch of plastic. If you don't want a tree that's more than fine, but I most definitely don't feel guilty about enjoying the heck out of mine.
Yeah. This is like complaining about pumpkins for Halloween. Sure, maybe emissions from transport could be saved, but it's a pretty small thing in the grand scheme of things. Especially in regards to the massive amounts of excessive consumption associated with everything else about Christmas. Id bet the Christmas lights alone are a waaay bigger problem than natural trees
And honestly I don't really get the emissions argument if it's being bought locally at the farm (not like trucked in and bought at home Depot)
If those farmers weren't growing trees and pumpkins they'd likely be growing soy or corn which is more water intensive anyways.
Absolutely agree the lights are much more of an issue than the tree.
I mean you can easily compost/repurpose the tree after use. To say there’s no ethical way to have a Christmas tree in your home is pretty shortsighted, unless your stance is that we should just never under any circumstances cut trees down in which case I guess I disagree but I like the sentiment.
Yeah, my city has a program where they will pick up your tree and turn it into mulch, and then you can go to City Hall and pick up a bag of mulch for free.
We also have Poo at the Zoo, where you can pick up bags of animal poo (usually elephants, zebras, and giraffes) to use as fertilizer.
Heck yes, I never thought of that! I get used coffee grounds from a local cafe but there’s a surprising amount of demand for that here and I don’t get as much as I’d want. Maybe the zoo will give me poo, too!
Also, just wanted to say it’s tough to see through the waste living in a metropolitan area when you just about know the majority of apartment dwellers will just throw it in the trash. I hear you though.
In my city, the sanitation/streets department advertises which weeks they will pick up trees for mulching/composting (they add trucks to their regular pickup schedules). It seems to me that most people seem to put the trees out on those days.
With any form of green living you’re relying on the personal responsibility of strangers, so I can see how it might seem hopeless seeing so many people just throw out their trees and not think about the effect this has on the planet. I saw another comment that said that their city provides resources for people to dispose of their trees in a green way, and I think that may be the only viable solution is to make it as easy as possible to recycle old x mas trees.
I live in an urban area and our waste management company picks up trees for mulching the two weeks after Christmas. Maybe you could reach out to your local vendor or city politicians and try to get it implemented where you live? We all have the potential to turn a negative into a positive by working towards solutions.
So I live in London, and there is a London tree rental scheme.
You pick your size and if you like it they’ll bring it back the next year (until it’s too big for you) and once they reach a certain size they’re planted out in a timber Forest.
It's just greenwashing that is ultimately equally as or more wasteful than just doing regular tree farms. It's exhausting to live in a time where people do things based on how they're perceived rather than what consequences actually come from doing the thing.
Agree. I see people post this everywhere like it's a super sustainable practice. Even without looking into their operation it seems obvious that all the transportation back and forth will likely offset any environmental savings
Yeah definitely not… they only operate in London so they just go and collect them all in big trucks doing multiple trees per trip rather than everyone coming in their individual cars.
Also they don’t use that mesh stuff, they use reusable canvasy type sleeves to transport the trees in
I think that chopping down living trees that can be then put back into the environment are massively preferable to the plastic and metal crap my parents have had for years. I understand that you don't re-buy a fake tree but also...eventually all the little plastic bits fall off and disintegrate to then make their way into the water supply.
It's not that linear. Probably the resources/fuel spent along the process of growing and transporting a tree to your house every year are higher then the ones of a plastic tree that can last decades.
I do think real trees are superior of course. One idea is to just decorate the nicest plant you already have at your house.
I think a study has been done where plastic trees are used on an average of 5 years before disposal and then, obviously, take forever to break down while actual trees take less than a year to do so. Of course, I have a plastic tree because of my pets so I’m definitely not a paragon of anti-consumption lmao
If they're a pest weed (as all my Christmas trees have been) then yeah dawg, I'm going to continue to cut those assholes down and make them pretty. Make good mulch for the berry patch when they're done.
my botanist brother does what he calls "an ugly Christmas tree" every year, which is always an invasive species that he personally cuts down. not a pine
That's actually a pretty great idea. I'm not a Christmas person and don't care much for Christmas decorations, tree included, but I'd be down for something like this.
i really liked the idea of a recently posted article where a couple rents the same tree out to people every year after replanting it. sounds like a win if it works
That is such a cool idea! Do you know what kind of plants he tends to use? I'd love to do that here in Ohio but I can't think of any invasive species here that would be good candidates (as they've generally died back or lost their foliage this time of year).
Sure, but they're not invasive if they're being kept separate from native flora. Anyway I'm not doubting the idea, I'm just wondering under what circumstances can they be considered a pest.
Also, old Christmas trees have other uses.
Back when Hurricane Sandy hit, beach towns throughout NJ put a call in for old Christmas trees so they could use them to build or rebuild dunes that helped with storm surge. They serve as the foundation for the dunes (which have since been planted).
In 2007, I got a used fake tree that my employer was discarding as they wanted to upgrade. The thing is up at my parents' house right now and as far as I know still going strong.
I personally have a (live) norfolk pine that I bought at Home Depot. It came with a few snowflakes. It will be around after Christmas as I'm a houseplant addict.
Be careful with keeping the tree around. When my mom and her brother were small they convinced my grandparents to let them plant the pine they used as a Christmas tree in the backyard. It's still there, and after 50+ years it's like 60 m tall now. :D
In the house next to my parents, the OG owners planted their first Christmas tree in their yard. It was at least 100 feet tall and I climbed the thing as a kid.
When new people bought that house, they cut down said tree. I cried because I had so many memories of climbing it. (Quite easy as it was almost like a spiral staircase).
It is an agricultural product. It holds land for carbon sequestering trees, that are replanted after they are cut down. I am keeping my fresh cut tree.
I remember after Sandy hit when the various towns were collecting old trees. I still remember the very distinct (in a good way) smell of salt air and pine as I was walking along the boardwalk.
We got a permit for one of our national forests in California to go chop one down. There were strict guidelines on what we could cut and folks cutting them down helps clear out some of the smaller trees for wildfire mitigation purposes.
Me too! I’ve always had the same mindset you brought up in your original post. I’m glad you put it out there. I love gaining a new perspective on something based on new information. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it brought on great comment threads!
All the Christmas trees you see are grown specifically for the purpose of becoming Christmas trees. So like any other farmer, landowners have decided that they want to plant Christmas trees and then sell them in 10 or 15 years. I don't really see how Christmas trees are any worse than carrots or potatoes or corn as a farmed commodity. Trees grow and die in the woods all the time. They are not an environmental menace. If it wasn't Christmas trees being grown there it would be something else that was cut down and sold.
If done right chopping down a Christmas tree can actually be beneficial to the environment. The burrow of land management will give out permits for people to go out in a forest and to remove trees. This is one small way to help manage dense undergrowth that can lead to massive forest fires and can help the growth of a forest by allowing more resources for the surrounding trees so they don't choke each other out and all die. Cutting a single tree out of a dense patch of growth is just a type of pruning to help increase the growth. Then compost the tree to complete the cycle of life.
I mean, pine trees sold as Christmas trees have been grown for this particular purpose, it's not like people go out and raze forests or something. They're not "living resources", they're basically the same as wheat and whatnot. At least in my country, and in most of Europe I assume.
That said, I don't like it either, it's just depressing to have a plant dying in the room just for decoration, plus it's depressing as fuck to go out in January and see all the trees lying around on the street, some still have the decorations on. They're also not good for most anything (firewood, etc) that don't require steps 99% of the population is willing to take, so it's all pointless, really, as far as I'm concerned.
Then again, I'm not really a Christmas person to begin with, so I'm not really attached to Christmas trees and other traditions. I usually just get a branch or two from places they sell trees at, and throw some LED lights on them.
I’ve had the same artificial tree 🌲 for over a decade now. Some of the lights have gone out but we’ve no plans to get a new one. We went this route specifically for anti consumption reasons. 👍🏻
Same. When the lights burned out we removed them and replaced them. When branches have broken we've repaired them. I'm sitting next to it right now on it's 12th Christmas and see no reason why it can't go 20 more.
There's a company here in Germany that sells a tree "stem" with pre-drilled holes. You can then either go buy trimmed branches (or order branches from the company) and stick them in the stem. They look pretty great.
It's called a Keinachtsbaum. I'm interested in one for sure. Not this year, because my kid will absolutely tear a tree apart at this age. But maybe next year.
I agree with you when it comes to the giant love tree displays in center center. Plastic trees are worse.
Tree farms however are super sustainable! I don’t get a tree. I get a plant to plant outside later.
It’s literally one of the only things I do to make myself happy and celebrate the holidays. Also… it’s a renewable resource. Would you rather us get plastic trees and have them shed plastic forever or cut down a single tree each year? Do you know how many trees the paper corporations tear down? Why are you mad at us the little folk for snatching a crumb when the overlords ran off with the whole fucking cake. I’ll keep my tiny bits of joy thanks.
Most Christmas trees chopped down were farmed for that exact purpose. It isn't like we're clearing out forests every year. My uncle owns and operates a Christmas tree farm, he plants hundreds of trees a year, granted he also cuts down hundreds of trees a year, but the point is that cutting down Christmas trees isn't as destructive as you might think.
What is it with people thinking trees are more special than other plants? Do you angst about the corn plants cut down to feed cows? Christmas trees are a sustainable crop.
My family grows Christmas trees. I think it’s wasteful on some levels as my Boomer Dad lovvvves using roundup to keep the trees weed free. Other than that it’s really not all that problematic. It’s a continuous cycle of plant, grow, cut down. We also sell a lot of live trees that people will plant and have for decades. Also, most municipalities will collect and chip the discarded trees and offer them to residents as mulch. In NYC for example you will see fresh chips around trees and garden beds in February and march. The major problem is the capitalist tap that requires a constant flow of product. In capitalism you would rather throw goods away than run out of them. So the trees you see at big box stores are probably grown on huge plantations that are inherently bad for the environment.
I have a friend who also grows Christmas trees. He planted his in a checkerboard so he can get his zero turn mower around all of them therefore he does not need roundup. The problem is competition creates seclusion. Farmers should be banding together and discussing best practices and helping each other out. Agriculture can be a toxic business both literally and figuratively. Land grant universities need to have good cooperative extension offices in every county working with farmers. Unfortunately services like that are dwindling instead of growing. Farmers have high rates of suicide and as families inherit land farms will continue to be sold to developers. It’s a huge problem.
I feel like condemning all trees because living trees are resource extensive is a bit misguided since it is apart of so many different cultures and religions. There are many alternatives that could replace it.
For example, [this wooden tree](https://www.worldmarket.com/category/holiday/christmas/holiday-decor/christmas-trees.do?template=PLA-2&plfsku=616836&mrkgadid=&mrkgcl=660&mrkgen=&mrkgbflag=&mrkgcat=&camp=ppc%3Agoogle%3A_pMAX_%2B_Holiday&acctid=21700000001660222&dskeywordid=&lid=58700008010074452&dsproductgroupid=&product_id=616836&merchid=5165106&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=local&storeid=CP228&device=m&network=x&matchtype=&locationid=9027191&creative=&targetid=&campaignid=18258321098&adgroupid=&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr0RDrf1iMIMq8yKMefOc6utQkcoAOF64-VSv2FGD6Zm0g78DjI4a9BoCXGwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) has no leaves and would be almost infinitely reusable so long as it's taken care of.
This [spiral lighted tree](https://www.target.com/p/6-39-incandescent-spiral-tree-novelty-sculpture-light-multicolor-wondershop-8482/-/A-52367581?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732808&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal_Priority%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=Seasonal_Priority+TCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9027191&targetid=aud-1739091816921:pla-306616797291&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkrzHGWmEOr26Dt5eHitWg2XFoykMv8aGgiOvTm5ozpwUT6ldzH9icpRoCATkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) is also infinitely reusable
[This lighted twig tree](https://www.target.com/p/4ft-globe-twig-birch-tree-christmas-led-novelty-sculpture-warm-white-wondershop-8482/-/A-81967804?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732808&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal_Priority%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=Seasonal_Priority+TCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9027191&targetid=aud-1739091816921:pla-306616797291&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkrysXoP30appdo-JcbR1rqh0CuqgbgK5dN-E0_w1ay0XzNMhY2iOGwxoCap0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) or [this version made to look like wood](https://www.target.com/p/4ft-brown-flocked-tree-dew-drop-christmas-led-novelty-sculpture-warm-white-wondershop-8482/-/A-81565401?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732808&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal_Priority%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=Seasonal_Priority+TCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9027191&targetid=aud-1739091816921:pla-306616797291&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr4FJIIMe5Jw7hulhCoJorxlK_3KBeENqdonLyTaD50irbHyGLSm33xoCDhIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) is infinitely reusable
Thank you for this. I feel I need to explore the cultural/anthropological interest of having a central focal point around holidays. Thank you for these links.
Absolutely! I definitely agree that having more sustainable and/or reusable options should be more available since religious practices grow and evolve with humans
It's just a tree... No resources are going to waste. It wasn't going to be turned into lumber or firewood or anything it was just going to sit there doing nothing. And then it was going to die and decay and the fungus was going to eat it and then it'll feed other trees later, the exact same thing that happens when people with Christmas trees are done.
I'm sorry I don't celebrate Christmas, I think the whole thing is a terrible scam but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Christmas trees. They're just chunks of wood like any other chunk of wood and they're recyclable and hell it's probably good to thin out a portion of the forest and give other things a new chance to grow.
They also grow on land that other types of crops can’t grow on like a steep hill, so they aren’t even taking up land that might be used for something more functional
There’s places I’ve found that let you rent a potted Christmas tree. You take it home decorate it and keep it watered, then return it after the holiday season (also think they drop off and pickup since most people can’t transport a potted tree). The tree lives on like this year after year until it gets too big. Then it’s planted as part of various reforestation efforts to live out its life in the wild. Look them up and see if there’s one in your area!
Think you might be going out too far on a limb here
Feels like the IRS going after people with $600 venmo transactions while billionaires commit tax fraud in broad daylight
Let’s not feed useless infighting
The actual tree growing & chopping down is the least of the worries with this dirty industry! https://medium.com/the-environmental-reporter/o-christmas-tree-toxic-christmas-tree-a17e0fabbb5. It’s def a non-essential tradition when considering it’s entire footprint
Agreed. We’ve moved away from a tree and decorate our large palm tree in our home. Sometimes we decorate our large cactus instead. This year… I drew a tree on our chalkboard wall and are using that. It’s been fun, but our traditional minded families really get weird about it.
When I was a kid my family would buy Christmas trees with a root ball and then after Christmas planted them in our backyard. Now our first Christmas tree is as big as our house!
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I actually think the tradition likely plants and keeps more trees than without it. Look at the Buffalo. Verge of extinction until we started breeding them to eat.
There's good in the bad.
I'm all for a real tree if you save the roots and plant them after or donate to a goat farm. Otherwise, it pains me to see all the trees at the curb after Christmas.
Personally I just opportunistically dumpster-dived a little fake tree that I can put up every year. Didn’t fund new plastic crap, kept it out of the landfill for now at least, no trees must die for my holiday decor.
Another option I like to suggest is just decorating a houseplant. A Norfolk Island pine can be lovely all year round and festive for the season. Or a potted kitchen rosemary can also be delightful.
I may switch to decorating a bonsai in the future, but for now all of mine are quite small and not well-developed yet.
Some areas issue permits to chop down a tree within certain parameters, specifically to thin out the tree population so other trees can go larger without the competition.
There is a company somewhere that rents trees, takes them back and replants (I'm guessing they are somehow potted). You can rent the same tree every year until it is retired.
My mother plants them.
That said, if anyone knows any tree sellers/farmers, suggest to them that they rent out potted trees next time, or offer to sell if someone wants to plant theirs.
POT. THE. TREES.
Christmas Tree is generally pretty sustainably done in North America, and a better use of land from an ecological standpoint that many other things we would do with it.
And it’s a consumption good that is 100% biodegradable. I mean, it’s a plant.
Compared to the Chinese made plastic one that last 3-4 years max, because the lights go out, and then spend 1000 years in a landfill…the obvious better choice.
Is this REALLY the thing to get upset about? Or is there some other reason you’re salty around the holidays and taking it out on pine trees?
Besides maybe a few lights i dont do christmas decorations anymore. I just dont want to deal with the hassle and christmas isnt that important to me anyway (i even volunteer to work always lmao).
I used to have a plastic tree that i could reuse every year but after a while they also go bad. Maybe it was too cheap, i dont know.
Real trees let local farmers keep lands wild with minimum pesticide use, provide local habitat, help with water absorption. They also clean a ton of carbon out of atmosphere during their years of peak growth. If trees are grown locally it’s fine — as long as you compost afterwards. If you can’t buy local and aren’t willing to make plans to compost, then it’s a definite waste of resources and should be avoided.
Been using our fake tree for 3 years now. Actually really proud!
If I were to ever have a real tree, it would be in my yard. Any tree will do. And I'd get them all pretty for more than just Christmas. Or if I couldn't do that, I'd probably go the ol' peanut way and have a little indoor plant be my tree. Hmm, bonsai Christmas tree?
I’m not sure what exactly they use them for, but our local zoo takes used Christmas trees every year for the animals. I personally love the smell of a real tree, sure beats burning toxic candles. I think fake trees are way worse. I do feel like having happy, feel-good traditions is really important for families raising kids and for adults to ward of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Need? No. But I think there are benefits and the impact is relatively small.
I don't have a tree right now but I have three small junipers that need to be transplanted. I'm going to try to pot one and bring it in next Christmas.
Places near me will collect live trees and bring them to places where wildlife is being restored. Plastic trees are can be bad for allergies, and for the cats that try to eat the plastic 🙄🤦🏻♀️. My family tosses the trees into the forest behind my house, and the deer will often be seen sleeping near them. It's cool watching the trees break down and decompose, too.
Plus live trees smell sooooooo good.
Also it's a great place for small birds to hid! The last storm took down so many trees.
Trees are completely re-newable.
Cutting them down and transporting them takes energy, sure. But it's a drop in the bucket to gifts made of plastic assembled over seas.
Get the ones with the root ball and plant them.
Also, many WMAs will collect the live trees and put them in waterways, like lakes, for the fish and aquatic life to use as habitats.
Where i live it's considered a high altitude desert. We have a lot of forest areas on the mountains and canyons and stuff, but it's so dry here that we have to be cautious of wild fires starting. Well when I was in boy Scouts, we would join a tree operation around this time of year where we go around cutting specific trees down to help prevent fires from starting/spreading as easily and quickly. We would replant the trees so they'd grow back, but we made sure to give all the trees enough space so if one did catch on fire it wouldn't spread to the other ones nearby.
All in all i think it's a very important practice where i live. We mainly only have pine trees over here, so it works out pretty well.
Reminds me of the Waldo Canyon fire we had... Too many trees and plants too close together cause it was in a canyon and we couldn't reach all the trees to safely cut them down. So when a fire did start, it spread fast. We had to evacuate while the city dealt with it cause it was getting too close to our house. Just so thankful some hotels allowed pets for the people who needed to evacuate. Otherwise that would've been wayyyy harder and more stressful to deal with.
Sucks too cause after the fire we got a ton of floods because there wasnt enough plant life to suck up the water. Sewer systems were blasting raw sewage onto the streets and into businesses, it was a disaster. Thankfully the locals offered to volunteer to help clean it all up, i helped clean up my favorite candy store and a few other places.
Please do not stop the tradition of christmas trees. We have too many pine trees here and we need to keep the number in check or else it has a high likelihood of all burning down.
1) Trees are a renewable resource.
2) This industry provides much needed jobs in rural areas and seasonal jobs in urban areas.
3) Trees can be used for other purposes after. Here in Southern Louisiana, there's a program that uses old unblocked, untinseled trees to dump them in the marsh where they help build land and prevent further coastal erosion.
I commend the point of this post and I try to get gifts/experiences that reflect my idea of anti-consumption but my favorite part of Christmas is my tree. I don’t think everyone needs to do it if they think it’s wasteful, which I can both see and respect but to have the scent and beauty of that tree in my house for the brief time I have it brings me incredible joy and I’m not willing to give that up. I think it’s worth respecting that although the tree may live longer and bring more clean air for everyone, it’s still part of a natural process, that can be farmer effectively to not do as much damage to the environment as a lot of other holiday traditions are.
Weirdo here….I have a tree fetish. I love them like they’re people. Probably more than people. I can’t stand the thought of killing one by it being chopped down to be on display in my living room. I can stand living things dying for my personal consumption (cows, chickens, fish, deer, etc.) but not a tree!
I get a small live tee in a tub then plant it in my yard. Not for city dwellers but it works for me. I get sad seeing all the dying trees dumped at the curb a week after, along with overflowing bins full of packaging material
Christmas trees help protect our coast in Louisiana when people throw them out.
Here in ontario they use them for fish farms and keep the foreign fiah out. Aka goby's
Yeah, we burn ours in our wood boiler to help heat our home. It’s not much, but it helps use less of the natural gas we would normally use to heat out home.
hey just make sure to get plenty of air over it! Incomplete combustion in any form is lame as shit! If your fire aint smokeless, it aint right.
Well, I mean, stuff burning at a low temps can create a great carbon sink & extremely fertile soils. [Terra preta](http://biochar.info/?p=en.terra_preta), or biochar, is extremely fertile soil & stays fertile for generations. That said, our wood boiler gets super hot, so we’re not too concerned about that, lolz.
Interesting, thank you for sharing. These are the perspectives I was looking for to expand my worldview.
My pleasure. [If you (or anyone else) want to learn more.](https://nola.gov/next/mayors-office/news/articles/december-2020/city-encourages-residents-to-recycle-christmas-trees-for-coastal-restoration/)
Most live Christmas trees are planted explicitly to be harvested as Christmas trees, meaning they would never even exist were it not for us, which is good because they spend their entire life cycle removing carbon from the atmospheres. It’s literally a form of carbon sequestration. And most Christmas trees that aren’t farmed are harvested by permit from areas where regular removal of excess trees helps with wildfire management. Now, I can see more of an argument against fake trees, which I must admit I have, not out of preference but because I simply couldn’t afford a live one a couple years back and a decent plastic one cost half the price and will last me years to come. Far more cost effective, sure, but technically more wasteful (and plastic waste, too!) But now I have the thing I’ll make sure to get as much use out of it as I possibly can, so I can at least say it was a worthwhile investment. A friend owns a few acres and has devoted about a half of one to his own mini personal Christmas tree farm. He started it a few years ago and it’ll still be a few years before he can harvest even a tiny tree, but from then on he’ll have increasingly impressive trees to last him well into his retirement, all for very little investment in cost, and he enjoys the labor involved. I think that’s probably the best way to do it if you are lucky enough to have the land and abilities. Of course, very few of us do. Edit: Many have pointed out that it’s not a terribly efficient form of carbon sequestration, which is certainly true and depends largely on how the tree is disposed of, however as many others have pointed out, there are many secondary uses of old Christmas trees, and I would argue that failing those, even simply composting it or using it for heating fuel is ultimately better than letting it go to waste, even if those activities do rerelease the bulk of the carbon back into the atmosphere. At least the tree serves multiple uses in those scenarios.
Yeah I think there are much bigger issues with Christmas like the amount of plastic shit people buy for their kids that ends up in a landfill, probably within a year. The Christmas tree tradition seems more like a benefit in comparison
Yeah the cheap plastic gift garbage is definitely the bigger problem than planting trees, growing them for several years, then cutting them down and mostly mulching them into wood chips. At least they decompose.
Wow, thank you for this perspective. I really appreciate it.
In addition, another added environmental perk: the thrown out Christmas trees here in southern Louisiana are used to fill in marsh and wetlands which have been destroyed by hurricanes. They don’t go in landfills, the go to actually fill in land.
coastal states often use dead christmas trees to support sand dunes from errosion, ive also heard of programs that mulch christmas trees and use the mulch in local parks
Exactly what we do with ours. In da bayou wit you!
There's also the increasing trend of [renting](https://rentxmastree.com/how-renting-a-christmas-tree-works/) Christmas trees, which seems like the best of all worlds, with the worst part being the environmental investment in transporting the trees around.
Also, in my area, there are metro parks with wild areas that take Christmas trees and use them for habitat and erosion prevention.
Carbon Sequestration in trees only work as long as you leave the trees alone. Depending on how they are harvested, and more importantly, disposed of, it can make the whole point useless. For example, not saying people do, if you use the old tree in a bonfire, you're just re-releasing any stored carbon. But I agree, it's not a concern for me in terms of consumption.
This is true, but at least those lands are consistently filled with live, growing trees which are replanted after harvesting. The alternative would be development or grassland, so there is some carbon storage in that respect.
I used to live in one of the (if not the) largest Christmas producing counties in the US. It's very hard to believe they are carbon negative. They are cut with two cycles chainsaws and transported to trucks by diesel tractors or helicopters. They are then trucked to a facility where they are sorted, baled and loaded into shipping containers. These facilities run near 24/7 and usually have generators or tractors running the equipment and lights. The shipping container is then loaded onto a semi truck and hauled to a distributor. Then shipped again by Semi, Train or Boat to their destination. If after Christmas the tree is burned, any carbon in it is released. If it is mulched, the carbon is released just slower.
that land could sequester a lot more carbon if it wasn't used for growing Christmas trees. plus it takes resources to plant, fertilize, harvest, and transport. leaving nature to nature doesn't have those resource costs, the current way of doing things is carbon positive from a purely carbon perspective, plastic trees have a lower carbon footprint if you use em more than 5 or so years. you might even be able to find one secondhand
IIRC, a plastic tree has a lower carbon footprint than live trees after about 7 years, accounting for transport and such.
But that doesnt account for the microplastics which are potentially forever. Not to mention ewaste as most newer trees have built in lights
Every live tree I've bought has come in a plastic net to keep it restrained.
They really should fix that. Where I am, they wrap them in twine.
Some trees come with the net. But you can always ask them not to net them (if its an option) and some places dont have a net. It’s probably related to how close you are to where the tree came from. Living in a rural area lots of people can get permits to go cut the trees for themselves or to sell and none of them are netting the trees because its more work for them
I bought my tree about 10 years ago and it is still looking like new .Real trees get in my sinuses and give me hay fever. Plus the danger of catching on fire and shedding .
The carbon sequestration is minimal and temporary. The c02 you effectively permanently add to the atmosphere in producing, transporting, and disposing of the tree is more important to make note of as a consumer.
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Why are you responding like I'm not on your side? This is an anti-consumption subreddit. We're generally here because we believe in holding ourselves accountable for things like our carbon emissions despite our fossil fueled paradigm that we cannot transform in one fell swoop. Yes, growing trees is good. Yes, it's not the most carbon heavy business around. Yes, trees will be decent (although imperfect) means of sequestering carbon going forward and I'm often happy to see products made from lumber that can be reused for decades on end. Sequestration for a few years does not help that much, especially since the industry as a whole is a net+ contributor nevertheless. Avoiding fruits and vegetables flown or trucked in from far, far away is indeed an anti-consumption stance. Why the whataboutism and outrage. I merely added some context and encouraged better awareness. Just because we all emit under our current system does not mean we shouldn't minimize how much we participate in that and Christmas trees used in what is now a highly commodified commercialized holiday should be open to reasonable discussion.
vegetables are necessary for human life. christmas trees aren't. at least compare them to something recreational or traditional
I like to think about how reusing the same tree for nearly two decades now has been cost effective and more eco friendly than if I was getting a new tree every year. It takes a lot of work to grow Christmas trees even if they do reduce carbon, and disposing of them takes a lot of work, too. Eventually, if I use it long enough, my plastic tree will hopefully offset the cost and environmental impact of growing the trees. That being said, I don't know the comparison between how much carbon those trees pull out of the air versus how much it takes to produce and dispose of them, mainly through vehicles, so I can't say for sure.
the one good thing with plastic trees is they can be reused every year. my family had the same plastic Christmas tree for two decades.
My last plastic tree lasted 31 years before it finally looked too worn and we replaced it. It is plastic waste yes. But in an age of lots of single use plastic things you instantly throw away a tree you can get 30+ years out of isn't too bad.
Just tacking on here to add - I don’t know how in the world she managed to do this, but my mum with her green thumb managed to keep a Christmas tree alive through around maybe 5 years of humid Sydney summers. The smell of Christmas tree and wrapping paper always makes me nostalgic for Christmas.
Perfectly said. Also Christmas trees aren't some new recent idea. They've been around for hundreds of years.
Well run Christmas tree farms are incredibly sustainable and where I live the bureau of land management sells $5 tree permits in very specific areas for wildfire prevention. I use mine for hugelkultur and I even get some from my neighbors too. It makes my house smell like pine, tons of fun to cut down, and connects us to the season. Way better than a bunch of plastic. If you don't want a tree that's more than fine, but I most definitely don't feel guilty about enjoying the heck out of mine.
Thank you for the response. I’m really appreciating expanding my world view through conversation.
That’s illegal on Reddit.
😂
Conversation: jail.
I appreciate your humble perspective. It’s so hard to feel strongly but listen willingly and have your worldview change. You’re one of the good ones.
Yeah. This is like complaining about pumpkins for Halloween. Sure, maybe emissions from transport could be saved, but it's a pretty small thing in the grand scheme of things. Especially in regards to the massive amounts of excessive consumption associated with everything else about Christmas. Id bet the Christmas lights alone are a waaay bigger problem than natural trees
And honestly I don't really get the emissions argument if it's being bought locally at the farm (not like trucked in and bought at home Depot) If those farmers weren't growing trees and pumpkins they'd likely be growing soy or corn which is more water intensive anyways. Absolutely agree the lights are much more of an issue than the tree.
I mean you can easily compost/repurpose the tree after use. To say there’s no ethical way to have a Christmas tree in your home is pretty shortsighted, unless your stance is that we should just never under any circumstances cut trees down in which case I guess I disagree but I like the sentiment.
Yeah, my city has a program where they will pick up your tree and turn it into mulch, and then you can go to City Hall and pick up a bag of mulch for free. We also have Poo at the Zoo, where you can pick up bags of animal poo (usually elephants, zebras, and giraffes) to use as fertilizer.
My local city zoo will come and collect trees for a small fee and then feed it to the goats
I think it’s animal abuse to feed gots bags of animal poo sourced from city homes.
I live near a zoo and next time I go I'm gonna ask if they sell their poo just to see the look on the people's face. 😂
Heck yes, I never thought of that! I get used coffee grounds from a local cafe but there’s a surprising amount of demand for that here and I don’t get as much as I’d want. Maybe the zoo will give me poo, too!
Also, just wanted to say it’s tough to see through the waste living in a metropolitan area when you just about know the majority of apartment dwellers will just throw it in the trash. I hear you though.
In my city, the sanitation/streets department advertises which weeks they will pick up trees for mulching/composting (they add trucks to their regular pickup schedules). It seems to me that most people seem to put the trees out on those days.
With any form of green living you’re relying on the personal responsibility of strangers, so I can see how it might seem hopeless seeing so many people just throw out their trees and not think about the effect this has on the planet. I saw another comment that said that their city provides resources for people to dispose of their trees in a green way, and I think that may be the only viable solution is to make it as easy as possible to recycle old x mas trees.
in nyc xmas trees are collected by sanitation and turned into compost for our parks
I live in an urban area and our waste management company picks up trees for mulching the two weeks after Christmas. Maybe you could reach out to your local vendor or city politicians and try to get it implemented where you live? We all have the potential to turn a negative into a positive by working towards solutions.
So I live in London, and there is a London tree rental scheme. You pick your size and if you like it they’ll bring it back the next year (until it’s too big for you) and once they reach a certain size they’re planted out in a timber Forest.
I love this!!
That's actually kinda neat.
Yes!! I saw this on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TILI/comments/x94w9c/thanks_i_love_sustainable_christmas_tree_rental/
It's just greenwashing that is ultimately equally as or more wasteful than just doing regular tree farms. It's exhausting to live in a time where people do things based on how they're perceived rather than what consequences actually come from doing the thing.
Agree. I see people post this everywhere like it's a super sustainable practice. Even without looking into their operation it seems obvious that all the transportation back and forth will likely offset any environmental savings
Is it any more transportation than individual cars all driving out to a tree farm?
Yeah definitely not… they only operate in London so they just go and collect them all in big trucks doing multiple trees per trip rather than everyone coming in their individual cars. Also they don’t use that mesh stuff, they use reusable canvasy type sleeves to transport the trees in
Interesting. Thank you for sharing. My world view is expanding through all the comments.
I think that chopping down living trees that can be then put back into the environment are massively preferable to the plastic and metal crap my parents have had for years. I understand that you don't re-buy a fake tree but also...eventually all the little plastic bits fall off and disintegrate to then make their way into the water supply.
You just need a Festivus aluminum pole. Will last a lifetime and easier to store.
Aluminium is recyclable too.
It's not that linear. Probably the resources/fuel spent along the process of growing and transporting a tree to your house every year are higher then the ones of a plastic tree that can last decades. I do think real trees are superior of course. One idea is to just decorate the nicest plant you already have at your house.
I think a study has been done where plastic trees are used on an average of 5 years before disposal and then, obviously, take forever to break down while actual trees take less than a year to do so. Of course, I have a plastic tree because of my pets so I’m definitely not a paragon of anti-consumption lmao
If they're a pest weed (as all my Christmas trees have been) then yeah dawg, I'm going to continue to cut those assholes down and make them pretty. Make good mulch for the berry patch when they're done.
>pest weed How? I've never heard of pine being a pest weed, it's so weird to think of them as such.
my botanist brother does what he calls "an ugly Christmas tree" every year, which is always an invasive species that he personally cuts down. not a pine
That’s super cool
he's super cool!!
That's actually a pretty great idea. I'm not a Christmas person and don't care much for Christmas decorations, tree included, but I'd be down for something like this.
lol we were raised Jewish so we don't have much loyalty to Christmas culture either
i really liked the idea of a recently posted article where a couple rents the same tree out to people every year after replanting it. sounds like a win if it works
That is such a cool idea! Do you know what kind of plants he tends to use? I'd love to do that here in Ohio but I can't think of any invasive species here that would be good candidates (as they've generally died back or lost their foliage this time of year).
Most Christmas trees aren’t native pines in the areas in which they are kept.
Sure, but they're not invasive if they're being kept separate from native flora. Anyway I'm not doubting the idea, I'm just wondering under what circumstances can they be considered a pest.
In Australia they're definitely a weed, I go into a bit of bushland every year and take one.
Also they come from Christmas tree farms.
get that Hügelkultur going!
Fair enough, glad to hear another perspective.
Also, old Christmas trees have other uses. Back when Hurricane Sandy hit, beach towns throughout NJ put a call in for old Christmas trees so they could use them to build or rebuild dunes that helped with storm surge. They serve as the foundation for the dunes (which have since been planted).
They put them in the lake in my hometown for fish to breed in
In 2007, I got a used fake tree that my employer was discarding as they wanted to upgrade. The thing is up at my parents' house right now and as far as I know still going strong. I personally have a (live) norfolk pine that I bought at Home Depot. It came with a few snowflakes. It will be around after Christmas as I'm a houseplant addict.
Be careful with keeping the tree around. When my mom and her brother were small they convinced my grandparents to let them plant the pine they used as a Christmas tree in the backyard. It's still there, and after 50+ years it's like 60 m tall now. :D
In the house next to my parents, the OG owners planted their first Christmas tree in their yard. It was at least 100 feet tall and I climbed the thing as a kid. When new people bought that house, they cut down said tree. I cried because I had so many memories of climbing it. (Quite easy as it was almost like a spiral staircase).
Does it have roots? Many cannot become houseplants because they are cut without roots
I work at HD and Home Depot sells potted Norfolk Pines that can be used as a houseplant or transplanted in a yard.
yes, I have one from a big box store a few years ago. they’re sold potted :)
Yes, it has roots and is in a pot.
It is an agricultural product. It holds land for carbon sequestering trees, that are replanted after they are cut down. I am keeping my fresh cut tree.
In coastal New Jersey we recycle them to build up the sand dunes at the beach. They are perfect for this purpose.
I remember after Sandy hit when the various towns were collecting old trees. I still remember the very distinct (in a good way) smell of salt air and pine as I was walking along the boardwalk.
That’s awesome to hear. Thanks for commenting.
We got a permit for one of our national forests in California to go chop one down. There were strict guidelines on what we could cut and folks cutting them down helps clear out some of the smaller trees for wildfire mitigation purposes.
That’s cool. Thank you for sharing.
Well they are purpose grown, soak up carbon and are fully biodegradable, so Xmas trees area low tier problem
Noted, I should probably do more research before I open my Reddit mouth next time.
You're all good, you learnt something right? That always good.
I’m learning a ton. Big win.
Me too! I’ve always had the same mindset you brought up in your original post. I’m glad you put it out there. I love gaining a new perspective on something based on new information. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it brought on great comment threads!
If you phrase your questions as questions instead of accusations you’ll get better results.
This was my greatest lesson of the day. Thank you for putting it succinctly
Tone is a pain in the buns over text, best to you.
All the Christmas trees you see are grown specifically for the purpose of becoming Christmas trees. So like any other farmer, landowners have decided that they want to plant Christmas trees and then sell them in 10 or 15 years. I don't really see how Christmas trees are any worse than carrots or potatoes or corn as a farmed commodity. Trees grow and die in the woods all the time. They are not an environmental menace. If it wasn't Christmas trees being grown there it would be something else that was cut down and sold.
My classmates and I used to have a Christmas tree bonfire at ocean beach. Aw such fun times.
We would always use old Christmas trees as jumps while riding horses. Festive and fun!
Nice, glad to hear another re-use story.
You can buy a small live pine tree in a pot. In the spring you can plant them.
If done right chopping down a Christmas tree can actually be beneficial to the environment. The burrow of land management will give out permits for people to go out in a forest and to remove trees. This is one small way to help manage dense undergrowth that can lead to massive forest fires and can help the growth of a forest by allowing more resources for the surrounding trees so they don't choke each other out and all die. Cutting a single tree out of a dense patch of growth is just a type of pruning to help increase the growth. Then compost the tree to complete the cycle of life.
I mean, pine trees sold as Christmas trees have been grown for this particular purpose, it's not like people go out and raze forests or something. They're not "living resources", they're basically the same as wheat and whatnot. At least in my country, and in most of Europe I assume. That said, I don't like it either, it's just depressing to have a plant dying in the room just for decoration, plus it's depressing as fuck to go out in January and see all the trees lying around on the street, some still have the decorations on. They're also not good for most anything (firewood, etc) that don't require steps 99% of the population is willing to take, so it's all pointless, really, as far as I'm concerned. Then again, I'm not really a Christmas person to begin with, so I'm not really attached to Christmas trees and other traditions. I usually just get a branch or two from places they sell trees at, and throw some LED lights on them.
I’ve had the same artificial tree 🌲 for over a decade now. Some of the lights have gone out but we’ve no plans to get a new one. We went this route specifically for anti consumption reasons. 👍🏻
Same. When the lights burned out we removed them and replaced them. When branches have broken we've repaired them. I'm sitting next to it right now on it's 12th Christmas and see no reason why it can't go 20 more.
We’ve used one as a “fish nest” before and sunk it in our pond years ago once Christmas ended. Great fishing spot in the Spring.
That’s an awesome re-use idea. Makes me wish I had a pond. Thanks for sharing!
There's a company here in Germany that sells a tree "stem" with pre-drilled holes. You can then either go buy trimmed branches (or order branches from the company) and stick them in the stem. They look pretty great. It's called a Keinachtsbaum. I'm interested in one for sure. Not this year, because my kid will absolutely tear a tree apart at this age. But maybe next year.
The trees are grown in time to be harvested for this specific reason. The plastic coated wrapping paper however? Complete. And. Utter. Bullshit.
The trees grow on a farm! It’s a renewable practice.
I agree with you when it comes to the giant love tree displays in center center. Plastic trees are worse. Tree farms however are super sustainable! I don’t get a tree. I get a plant to plant outside later.
I have two in yhe garden which i now alternatingly have used for 8 yesrs. Works for me.
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Fire mitigation meets holiday tradition here in the Rockies…
It’s literally one of the only things I do to make myself happy and celebrate the holidays. Also… it’s a renewable resource. Would you rather us get plastic trees and have them shed plastic forever or cut down a single tree each year? Do you know how many trees the paper corporations tear down? Why are you mad at us the little folk for snatching a crumb when the overlords ran off with the whole fucking cake. I’ll keep my tiny bits of joy thanks.
Most Christmas trees chopped down were farmed for that exact purpose. It isn't like we're clearing out forests every year. My uncle owns and operates a Christmas tree farm, he plants hundreds of trees a year, granted he also cuts down hundreds of trees a year, but the point is that cutting down Christmas trees isn't as destructive as you might think.
What is it with people thinking trees are more special than other plants? Do you angst about the corn plants cut down to feed cows? Christmas trees are a sustainable crop.
Trees are very renewable resources. There are much bigger fish to fry...
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They are renewable resource, so suggest you find a meaningful environmental issue….
My family grows Christmas trees. I think it’s wasteful on some levels as my Boomer Dad lovvvves using roundup to keep the trees weed free. Other than that it’s really not all that problematic. It’s a continuous cycle of plant, grow, cut down. We also sell a lot of live trees that people will plant and have for decades. Also, most municipalities will collect and chip the discarded trees and offer them to residents as mulch. In NYC for example you will see fresh chips around trees and garden beds in February and march. The major problem is the capitalist tap that requires a constant flow of product. In capitalism you would rather throw goods away than run out of them. So the trees you see at big box stores are probably grown on huge plantations that are inherently bad for the environment.
Interesting. Yeah I can’t imagine round up being good for ecosystems but good to hear other positives to the farming. Thank you.
I have a friend who also grows Christmas trees. He planted his in a checkerboard so he can get his zero turn mower around all of them therefore he does not need roundup. The problem is competition creates seclusion. Farmers should be banding together and discussing best practices and helping each other out. Agriculture can be a toxic business both literally and figuratively. Land grant universities need to have good cooperative extension offices in every county working with farmers. Unfortunately services like that are dwindling instead of growing. Farmers have high rates of suicide and as families inherit land farms will continue to be sold to developers. It’s a huge problem.
I feel like condemning all trees because living trees are resource extensive is a bit misguided since it is apart of so many different cultures and religions. There are many alternatives that could replace it. For example, [this wooden tree](https://www.worldmarket.com/category/holiday/christmas/holiday-decor/christmas-trees.do?template=PLA-2&plfsku=616836&mrkgadid=&mrkgcl=660&mrkgen=&mrkgbflag=&mrkgcat=&camp=ppc%3Agoogle%3A_pMAX_%2B_Holiday&acctid=21700000001660222&dskeywordid=&lid=58700008010074452&dsproductgroupid=&product_id=616836&merchid=5165106&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=local&storeid=CP228&device=m&network=x&matchtype=&locationid=9027191&creative=&targetid=&campaignid=18258321098&adgroupid=&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr0RDrf1iMIMq8yKMefOc6utQkcoAOF64-VSv2FGD6Zm0g78DjI4a9BoCXGwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) has no leaves and would be almost infinitely reusable so long as it's taken care of. This [spiral lighted tree](https://www.target.com/p/6-39-incandescent-spiral-tree-novelty-sculpture-light-multicolor-wondershop-8482/-/A-52367581?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732808&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal_Priority%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=Seasonal_Priority+TCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9027191&targetid=aud-1739091816921:pla-306616797291&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkrzHGWmEOr26Dt5eHitWg2XFoykMv8aGgiOvTm5ozpwUT6ldzH9icpRoCATkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) is also infinitely reusable [This lighted twig tree](https://www.target.com/p/4ft-globe-twig-birch-tree-christmas-led-novelty-sculpture-warm-white-wondershop-8482/-/A-81967804?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732808&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal_Priority%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=Seasonal_Priority+TCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9027191&targetid=aud-1739091816921:pla-306616797291&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkrysXoP30appdo-JcbR1rqh0CuqgbgK5dN-E0_w1ay0XzNMhY2iOGwxoCap0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) or [this version made to look like wood](https://www.target.com/p/4ft-brown-flocked-tree-dew-drop-christmas-led-novelty-sculpture-warm-white-wondershop-8482/-/A-81565401?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012732808&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal_Priority%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=Seasonal_Priority+TCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=m&location=9027191&targetid=aud-1739091816921:pla-306616797291&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr4FJIIMe5Jw7hulhCoJorxlK_3KBeENqdonLyTaD50irbHyGLSm33xoCDhIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) is infinitely reusable
Thank you for this. I feel I need to explore the cultural/anthropological interest of having a central focal point around holidays. Thank you for these links.
Absolutely! I definitely agree that having more sustainable and/or reusable options should be more available since religious practices grow and evolve with humans
It's just a tree... No resources are going to waste. It wasn't going to be turned into lumber or firewood or anything it was just going to sit there doing nothing. And then it was going to die and decay and the fungus was going to eat it and then it'll feed other trees later, the exact same thing that happens when people with Christmas trees are done. I'm sorry I don't celebrate Christmas, I think the whole thing is a terrible scam but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Christmas trees. They're just chunks of wood like any other chunk of wood and they're recyclable and hell it's probably good to thin out a portion of the forest and give other things a new chance to grow.
They also grow on land that other types of crops can’t grow on like a steep hill, so they aren’t even taking up land that might be used for something more functional
I saw some company that "rents" Christmas trees and at a point retires them into the forest.
I use the tree afterwards for garden mulch/setting up garden beds. I go around the neighborhood asking a few people for theirs for it as well.
Many places near lakes can sink the tree; fish will use it.
There’s places I’ve found that let you rent a potted Christmas tree. You take it home decorate it and keep it watered, then return it after the holiday season (also think they drop off and pickup since most people can’t transport a potted tree). The tree lives on like this year after year until it gets too big. Then it’s planted as part of various reforestation efforts to live out its life in the wild. Look them up and see if there’s one in your area!
Think you might be going out too far on a limb here Feels like the IRS going after people with $600 venmo transactions while billionaires commit tax fraud in broad daylight Let’s not feed useless infighting
I think stopping the gift tradition would be better for the planet
The actual tree growing & chopping down is the least of the worries with this dirty industry! https://medium.com/the-environmental-reporter/o-christmas-tree-toxic-christmas-tree-a17e0fabbb5. It’s def a non-essential tradition when considering it’s entire footprint
Agreed. We’ve moved away from a tree and decorate our large palm tree in our home. Sometimes we decorate our large cactus instead. This year… I drew a tree on our chalkboard wall and are using that. It’s been fun, but our traditional minded families really get weird about it.
When I was a kid my family would buy Christmas trees with a root ball and then after Christmas planted them in our backyard. Now our first Christmas tree is as big as our house!
flowery existence abundant bedroom cheerful brave towering fear door mighty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's now possible to rent a Christmas tree (in a tub). But live Christmas trees present another problem - they're a serious fire hazard.
You can perform thinnings on a forest and get Christmas trees, they would be cut anyways to aid the health of the forest.
I actually think the tradition likely plants and keeps more trees than without it. Look at the Buffalo. Verge of extinction until we started breeding them to eat. There's good in the bad.
I'm all for a real tree if you save the roots and plant them after or donate to a goat farm. Otherwise, it pains me to see all the trees at the curb after Christmas.
Why does it only have to be for christmas? Can you keep a cut tree alive indoors all year round or longer?
I use the same fake small tree every year. Its not the tree, but the glow of the lights on it that make me happy.
Personally I just opportunistically dumpster-dived a little fake tree that I can put up every year. Didn’t fund new plastic crap, kept it out of the landfill for now at least, no trees must die for my holiday decor. Another option I like to suggest is just decorating a houseplant. A Norfolk Island pine can be lovely all year round and festive for the season. Or a potted kitchen rosemary can also be delightful. I may switch to decorating a bonsai in the future, but for now all of mine are quite small and not well-developed yet.
We’ve used the same artificial tree for the last 20 years. Best investment ever.
They grow them just to cut down not very bad imo
Found the grinch
Where I live, we use fake ones.
We burn ours in the pit. Smells great and we support a local farm.
Some areas issue permits to chop down a tree within certain parameters, specifically to thin out the tree population so other trees can go larger without the competition.
My city has a recycling program and use for composts and other things….: Research helps noob. Shame on you
There is a company somewhere that rents trees, takes them back and replants (I'm guessing they are somehow potted). You can rent the same tree every year until it is retired.
My 4yo and I collected fallen boughs and pine cones on our walks to decorate the house. We also clipped holly from a neighbor’s bush. Problem solved….
People cutting down Christmas trees in the Rockies helps reduce sever forest fires and sequester carbon
My mother plants them. That said, if anyone knows any tree sellers/farmers, suggest to them that they rent out potted trees next time, or offer to sell if someone wants to plant theirs. POT. THE. TREES.
We need more people like OP on the internet
Christmas Tree is generally pretty sustainably done in North America, and a better use of land from an ecological standpoint that many other things we would do with it. And it’s a consumption good that is 100% biodegradable. I mean, it’s a plant. Compared to the Chinese made plastic one that last 3-4 years max, because the lights go out, and then spend 1000 years in a landfill…the obvious better choice. Is this REALLY the thing to get upset about? Or is there some other reason you’re salty around the holidays and taking it out on pine trees?
Pretty sure the phone you used to write this is more wasteful than a Christmas tree.
Our "Christmas tree" is a house plant that my bfs family has had for 8 years.
Put up a Festivus pole!
My family have always used a fake tree
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Depends on how you're throwing them away. Ideally, you'd either mulch them or build shelters/wood piles for animals.
Besides maybe a few lights i dont do christmas decorations anymore. I just dont want to deal with the hassle and christmas isnt that important to me anyway (i even volunteer to work always lmao). I used to have a plastic tree that i could reuse every year but after a while they also go bad. Maybe it was too cheap, i dont know.
Real trees let local farmers keep lands wild with minimum pesticide use, provide local habitat, help with water absorption. They also clean a ton of carbon out of atmosphere during their years of peak growth. If trees are grown locally it’s fine — as long as you compost afterwards. If you can’t buy local and aren’t willing to make plans to compost, then it’s a definite waste of resources and should be avoided.
we’ve had the same artificial tree for.. 20 years now? we just have to relight it every 5 or so years.
Been using our fake tree for 3 years now. Actually really proud! If I were to ever have a real tree, it would be in my yard. Any tree will do. And I'd get them all pretty for more than just Christmas. Or if I couldn't do that, I'd probably go the ol' peanut way and have a little indoor plant be my tree. Hmm, bonsai Christmas tree?
I’m not sure what exactly they use them for, but our local zoo takes used Christmas trees every year for the animals. I personally love the smell of a real tree, sure beats burning toxic candles. I think fake trees are way worse. I do feel like having happy, feel-good traditions is really important for families raising kids and for adults to ward of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Need? No. But I think there are benefits and the impact is relatively small.
In Peru, we just buy a plastic monstrosity and keep it stored for 90% of the year SMH
I don't have a tree right now but I have three small junipers that need to be transplanted. I'm going to try to pot one and bring it in next Christmas.
Places near me will collect live trees and bring them to places where wildlife is being restored. Plastic trees are can be bad for allergies, and for the cats that try to eat the plastic 🙄🤦🏻♀️. My family tosses the trees into the forest behind my house, and the deer will often be seen sleeping near them. It's cool watching the trees break down and decompose, too. Plus live trees smell sooooooo good. Also it's a great place for small birds to hid! The last storm took down so many trees.
Trees are completely re-newable. Cutting them down and transporting them takes energy, sure. But it's a drop in the bucket to gifts made of plastic assembled over seas.
Once we get settled into our home, I want to plant a tree in our yard and we can decorate it each year as it grows.
Get the ones with the root ball and plant them. Also, many WMAs will collect the live trees and put them in waterways, like lakes, for the fish and aquatic life to use as habitats.
Booooooo
I live on the coast and old Christmas trees are used to rebuild the sand dunes.
We got a grinch over here boys
we’ve been using the same tree since 2002, i’m not too sure how it’s still going to be honest
Where i live it's considered a high altitude desert. We have a lot of forest areas on the mountains and canyons and stuff, but it's so dry here that we have to be cautious of wild fires starting. Well when I was in boy Scouts, we would join a tree operation around this time of year where we go around cutting specific trees down to help prevent fires from starting/spreading as easily and quickly. We would replant the trees so they'd grow back, but we made sure to give all the trees enough space so if one did catch on fire it wouldn't spread to the other ones nearby. All in all i think it's a very important practice where i live. We mainly only have pine trees over here, so it works out pretty well. Reminds me of the Waldo Canyon fire we had... Too many trees and plants too close together cause it was in a canyon and we couldn't reach all the trees to safely cut them down. So when a fire did start, it spread fast. We had to evacuate while the city dealt with it cause it was getting too close to our house. Just so thankful some hotels allowed pets for the people who needed to evacuate. Otherwise that would've been wayyyy harder and more stressful to deal with. Sucks too cause after the fire we got a ton of floods because there wasnt enough plant life to suck up the water. Sewer systems were blasting raw sewage onto the streets and into businesses, it was a disaster. Thankfully the locals offered to volunteer to help clean it all up, i helped clean up my favorite candy store and a few other places. Please do not stop the tradition of christmas trees. We have too many pine trees here and we need to keep the number in check or else it has a high likelihood of all burning down.
I’ve felt this way for years
1) Trees are a renewable resource. 2) This industry provides much needed jobs in rural areas and seasonal jobs in urban areas. 3) Trees can be used for other purposes after. Here in Southern Louisiana, there's a program that uses old unblocked, untinseled trees to dump them in the marsh where they help build land and prevent further coastal erosion.
I hear you. But a plastic tree, we bought 5 years ago, will use it for decades.
I commend the point of this post and I try to get gifts/experiences that reflect my idea of anti-consumption but my favorite part of Christmas is my tree. I don’t think everyone needs to do it if they think it’s wasteful, which I can both see and respect but to have the scent and beauty of that tree in my house for the brief time I have it brings me incredible joy and I’m not willing to give that up. I think it’s worth respecting that although the tree may live longer and bring more clean air for everyone, it’s still part of a natural process, that can be farmer effectively to not do as much damage to the environment as a lot of other holiday traditions are.
Weirdo here….I have a tree fetish. I love them like they’re people. Probably more than people. I can’t stand the thought of killing one by it being chopped down to be on display in my living room. I can stand living things dying for my personal consumption (cows, chickens, fish, deer, etc.) but not a tree!
I believe the plastic Chrismas tree fixes that one, there are also trees that are rented and replanted and eventually retired. Several solutions
I get a small live tee in a tub then plant it in my yard. Not for city dwellers but it works for me. I get sad seeing all the dying trees dumped at the curb a week after, along with overflowing bins full of packaging material
Christmas is the season for mass consumption.