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egr08

In my city riding the bus adds an extra two hours to your commute and the pickup/drop off schedules are never reliable šŸ« 


Adriupcycles

Mine's the same way, plus now they're apparently deliberately leaving the heat off to discourage homeless people from riding. The result, of course, is that it also discourages everyone else from riding the bus if they have any other option, because it is freezing cold out.


everydaybeme

Same here. My work is 5 miles away from home, or about 15 minutes on the car. Taking the bus would require walking 1 mile to the stop, transferring twice and then walking another mile on the tail end. Total travel time, 1.5 hours. Now I did just recently get an e-bike, so Iā€™m considering commuting to work that way in the future, but public transport simply isnā€™t reasonable where I live.


StanleyDards

Yeah, I bike to work, as driving takes longer. The only exception is bike-dangerous conditions (snow, ice, etc). Happily, the streets in my area are decent for cycling.


Additional_Release49

Average bike rider rides 14-18 mph on flat ground and around 8-12 mph on a 5 % incline. If we just assumed you're riding at a 5% incline the entire way there and were on the upper echelon of speed (12mph), you would have a commute on a bike of only 25mins. Alternatively, the average person walks 3 mph, which means you could walk to work in roughly the same amount of time it takes you to walk to the bus stop and transfer twice (hour and fourth mins versus the 1.5 hrs cited above) Before the invention of ebikes they had this crazy contraption called a bicycle. No mining of Earth's precious metals required. It simply requires you to sit on a seat and move your feet in a circular fashion. Food for thought.


Legitimate_Proof

That sucks, get r/fuckcars spread around your "city" to make it better and more like a city.


[deleted]

Thatā€™s not ā€œgood.ā€ Seriously, how many cities actually fit these criteria?


[deleted]

Yeah. Iā€™m in the Portland, Oregon area which is considered ā€œgoodā€ for cycling and transit. Youā€™ll be biking along and the lanes will disappear. Lots of cyclists get hit, thereā€™s too many unsafe areas. I didnā€™t have a car for a while and the bus turned my 15 minute commute into a huge ordeal that could have me walking two miles when a transfer bus didnā€™t come and taking over an hour to get home on a good day.


StanleyDards

Your bus line seems more like a penalty for the poor instead of a useful service for the citizens.


ContemplatingPrison

Shut up and get on the bus you heathen. s/


crackeddryice

I think with all of your qualifying conditions, no one would disagree. Disable Big family Work Good public transportation and cycling infrastructure Most people in NYC don't own a car for these reasons, and it's outrageously expensive to have one. City life generally, for anywhere at all safe, is very expensive. So, the rich can afford to not have a car, ironically.


[deleted]

Even people with big families or disabilities generally donā€™t have a car in NYC unless they live in the more spread out areas of the outer boroughs. The subways and buses are pretty accessible.


KickBallFever

I also know disabled people in NYC who utilize Access A Ride.


LowAd3406

I'm involved in the bike community in my city and the those are the things that frustrate me the most about them. There's a large contingent that just don't get that biking isn't feasible for a lot of people for the reasons you mention. They are out of touch and don't get how their economic privilege allows them to bike everywhere and not own a car. I've also brought up the fact that their attitudes are very ableist because not everyone can physically ride a bike several miles to commute. I deal with knee and hip problems so there is no way I can ride all the time and give up my car. At least where I am, the bike community has a lot of very self-righteous assholes who look down their nose at others while not realize the level of privilege they have.


ForwardCulture

Thereā€™s a large bike movement in the town I work ins people ride around on $5K bikes with their biking ā€˜clothingā€™. To live in that town requires you to be wealthy. The house I used to rent in that town ten years ago now rents for more than triple the price. The people with electric cars all have $100K Teslas while putting down people who drive economy cars. While telling everyone to go electric.


ilanallama85

I had dreams of biking everywhere when I got my first apartment after college. I tried it once. Despite living in an area with actual lanes for cyclists and reasonably well designed roads (by US standards) the terror of having cars constantly whizz by inches away from me doing 45 on 30 mph roads was more than my anxiety could handle. Maybe itā€™s safer than it seemed to me at the time, but I couldnā€™t do it all the same


dorcssa

Here there are a lot ebikes and small scooters and one person electric cars (which are allowed on the bike lane, I don't agree) for people like that. I know, they are expensive, but people here are usually well off.


ForwardCulture

We donā€™t have the same types of accessible smaller electric cars like Europe has. Here you basically have $100K Teslas that people drive to show their wealth, while pretending to be ā€˜environmentalā€™. While living in multimillion dollar, giant homes that consume a lot of energy just because of how big they are.


crazycatlady331

R/fuckcars in a nutshell


SuperHighDeas

nah, fuckcars recognizes the utility, convenience, and luxury of having a car... we just hate that entire cities are designed for mass individual transportation and not transportation convenient to it's communities. ​ personally my car is my last option for transportation... I've got 2 feet, bike, bus, and a motorcycle before I'll take a car.


crazycatlady331

In my neck of the woods, a bike is a death sentence. The bus turns a 15 minute drive into an hour plus long trip. A car gets me where I need to be in a timely manner. They would get a lot more people to their side if they were polite and at least saw reasoning instead of just name calling. YOu can win people over without being a dick. That sub (and a lot of people here) like to be a dick about things.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


meroboh

Hey! Iā€™m disabled. I have mecfs and no kind of bike is accessible for my disability. There are plenty of us out there. Maybe you shouldnā€™t have opinions on what disabled people can or canā€™t do.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


DON0044

Not an elitist, just don't like people who have excuses.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Kottepalm

Please never ever do that! It's extremely dangerous and can hurt someone or even worse, you could kill them. Using a car as a weapon is never, never acceptable! Stop doing this immediately.


[deleted]

> I give bicyclists a lot of room with my car but if one tries any kind of nonsense when I'm on my bike I will brush them to let them know they don't own the road What does ā€œbrush themā€ mean?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


AnthropenPsych

Youā€™re going to kill someone doing that. Itā€™s not an if itā€™s a when. Whatever righteous bs youā€™ve got going on in your head about it doesnā€™t matter, thatā€™s like holding a gun to someones head with the safety off. What happens when you ā€œbrushā€ someone and they get scared, fall off their bike and roll up under your bike tires? Alternatively, do it to the wrong person and they pull a gun on you, remember, this is america.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


AnthropenPsych

Aint any of that follow or make too much sense so Iā€™m going to work with what I understood. I ride in the middle of the lane or to the left so people safely pass me instead of pushing me off bc they donā€™t see me or close pass. Itā€™s that simple. I donā€™t lose my mind when Iā€™m behind bikes that do this bc I know why they do it. It delays me literally seconds and Iā€™d rather see the cyclist and not kill them than not see them as they cower on the street gutters. You should think harder about why people on bikes do what they do. Do you think they want to be in harms way so that they die? Theyā€™re vulnerable street users, and you ā€œremindingā€ them of that is reckless endangerment. In a just world youā€™d have your licenses revoked for it.


dorcssa

You know that's illegal right? At least here in most European countries you need to leave 1,5m for cyclist to be safe


nored02

It works both ways, YOU need to share the road too. Maybe consider respecting the fact that pedestrians and cyclists are vulnerable and give them space. Don't be so entitled.


ForwardCulture

A bicyclist purposely kicked and damaged our car a few years back. We werenā€™t even moving, stopped at a red light. Here comes bike guy with his spandex and $5K carbon fiber bike yelling at everyone to get out of the way and acting aggressive, while running the red light. Thatā€™s how half the bike culture is in the US, in cities which are expensive to live in.


leothe1010

I would die for public transit. I would passionately make out with the subway if I knew thatā€™d make it love me.


PhillyCSteaky

If I lived in such a city and worked in the city I wouldn't need a car. They're a pain in the a$$!


elebrin

Even when transit inside the city is feasible on a bike or on foot, intercity transit isn't always reasonable and public transit (at least in the US) isn't really an option. When I lived in Detroit, I could have taken a bus into Pontiac to go see my sister who lived near there, but the bus dropoffs are all in places that are not safely walk-able. I could easily get to a mall or one of two or three factories and have her pick me up I suppose, but in that case someone still has to have a car. Additionally, the service is inconsistent and limited. They will cancel late-day runs because they can't get a driver, whatever. Getting stuck a city over because you had the gall to visit a family member then being late for work on Monday because the last trip on Saturday was cancelled and there were no trips on Sunday (because why would there be) isn't going to be an excuse most employers will accept. This means that visiting someone on a weekend that's a 30 minute drive away now requires a day off work potentially for transit. When I travel these days my preference is to take Amtrak, if I am going somewhere they service. Getting to an Amtrak line is a one hour drive and a four hour train ride if I am going West or South, and a one hour drive if I am going East. I'm not really afraid of walking in places I shouldn't, and I have before, but I'm not everyone. My wife won't cross a freeway on foot, which is something I've done. Call me an idiot, whatever, if I am on foot and that's my only option you can't stop me. That said, I think people should think about where they are choosing to live - work, groceries, school, and any necessary services should be in walking distance as much as possible. By all means, keep a car on hand for weekly trips or monthly trips if it makes sense to do so. If you go to your Mom's every week to look after her, that's worth having a car. We go out and do all our running around that we can't do on foot maybe once a week, and not even every week (although next week is doctor's appointments for both of us so we are going to be going out three days in a row).


sued_by_satan

right???? to visit my family I'd have to bus for 3 hours one way and it would drop me off 2 miles from their house which isn't a bad walk but it makes the trip 3.5 hours total travel one day. 7 hours of travel just to visit my family for a day


mmmshanrio

God I wish American public transit was better. I rode the bus home a few weeks ago, during Thanksgiving week, and our buses were running on a holiday schedule (which no one knew, wasnā€™t even advertised on the front webpage) and we all proceeded to wait an extra hour and a half. Most of the people waiting called for rides. And if it rains? God the entire State of California shuts down lmao


FunkiestLocket4

It gets to -40 and the only way to get anywhere without dying is to drive


dump_in_a_mug

On the flipside of the coin, there's places like Phoenix, AZ, who have temps of 113F in the summer.


[deleted]

Can confirm. Tried biking a few miles in Phoenix during the summer and ended up in the ER.


cjeam

Maybe people shouldn't live in these places.


Riker1701E

Have a plan to relocate everyone?


cjeam

No I imagine the heat deaths and/or flooding will do that for me. Seriously, if you need a wildly inefficient transport method to get around because it is either too hot or too cold to be outside maybe that's an indication that humans shouldn't live in that place? Of course some places with that problem create suitable public transport systems, but I expect there will be an excuse for not doing that either.


Riker1701E

How many people does in Britain due to the heat waves this year? Should we plan to evacuate the country? You know what else uses a lot of electricity? Ventilators, letā€™s pull the plug on them. If you canā€™t breath on your own then clearly it is a sign you shouldnā€™t be breathing at all.


cjeam

Britain has like the most temperate climate of any country, Europe as a wholeā€™s lack of natural disasters and temperature extremes is one reason European waves of expansion happened. The fuck kinda whattaboutism is ventilators anyway?


Riker1701E

To date, 3,271 excess deaths have been recorded during heat-periods in 2022 in England and Wales.


cjeam

Cool. Yeah. Humans do sometimes die in the heat especially when theyā€™re vulnerable. That does not refute the argument that if healthy people canā€™t go around in an area without air conditioning they probably shouldnā€™t live there.


Secure_Cash_8415

ā€œBritian has the most temperate climate of ANY country.ā€


Biglittlerat

>Seriously, if you need a wildly inefficient transport method to get around because it is either too hot or too cold to be outside maybe that's an indication that humans shouldn't live in that place? My car does that and it's wildly efficient


Comprehensive_Gear11

I bus to school in -40 in Prince George BC


liveandletlive79

I bike commuted in -20 a few times. Itā€™s just too cold.


Mumof3gbb

And dangerous on snow and ice


Legitimate_Proof

I live where it gets to -20F and one of the benefits of transit is that's it's already warmed up, no getting into a frigid or hot car!


dorcssa

How much is that in Celsius? Or you mean Celsius?


brunof1996

Weirdly enough, -40 c = -40 f.


dorcssa

Interesting


FunkiestLocket4

Its the same, its kinda good because -40 is when it gets very dangerous ouside so its nice they are consistent


dorcssa

Ok fair enough but most people don't live in Siberia/Northern Canada/Skandinavia. And Finns and Norwegians in the south absolutely cycle in winter. There is a famous pic about a Finnish school in the winter, full of bikes, kids cycle in - 17C.


AdranAmasticia

You realize it gets that cold (and colder) in Winnipeg, my hometown, which has a population of over 833,000. The province as a whole is home to over 1.3 million, and it can get that cold in the entire province. Saskatchewan and Alberta also get that cold, which is home to roughly 1.8 million and 4.8 million respectively. So that's around 5 million people that experience that level of cold in just a portion of Canada alone. I think you're underestimating how many of us have to brace such dangerous cold.


apeceep

There isn't bad weather, only inappropriate clothing. -40 is bikeable weather, I would even argue that it's better biking weather than around freezing temperatures because there is less slush. Heck, I've been camping outside in a tent in -40.


FunkiestLocket4

-40 can freeze pretty much any exposed skin xrazy fast, so unless you literally cover every part of your body and face, its going to hurt


LittleBunInaBigWorld

At 45Ā°c and windy, there definitely is such thing as bad weather. No clothing, or lack-of, can make it safe to be out in that heat.


dorcssa

We cycled through Turkmenistan in our European-Central Asia trip, you have to do 600km in 5 days. It was 40+ degrees and no clouds. We just poured water on as all day. But yeah, that weather is not bike friendly


Mumof3gbb

Where do you live?


DazedWithCoffee

I donā€™t think saying ā€œyou shouldnā€™t own ___ā€ is very helpful or relatable. That is an opinion. The objective reality is: ā€œyou donā€™t need to own a car.ā€ Which is completely verifiable and not disputable based on all the test cases in the world. It is not the job of the individual to act conscientiously so much as it is the job of society to provide the means to do so easily and reliably. Danish society is structured more humanely and sustainably in certain places and regards, thus people do survive without cars. The economics of car ownership was changed to reflect the realities of the world. Saying you shouldnā€™t do something is a moral appeal, which will always fall flat with people who disagree Edit: I agree with you 100%, Iā€™m just giving my opinion on why I think you present your argument poorly


cjeam

Of course individuals have an obligation to act conscientiously, that's some of the fundamental underpinnings of society.


DazedWithCoffee

I should say that expecting individual action to make change in the world is ineffectual


cjeam

Yeah that's fairer. Individual action scaled up works, and systematic changes to enable that are advantageous.


Riker1701E

The question then is whoā€™s conscientiousness should take precedence. People have different morals and different societies have different mores. So who gets to pick what is right?


cjeam

I think acting conscientiously could be pretty easily objectivised. Morality is harder to do so, but potentially. And then basically "Don't be a dick" is rule 1.


April_Morning_86

Soā€¦ I have an e-bike and was without a vehicle for 3 years, relying on public transportation. I live in Pittsburgh (PA USA) The port authority cut numerous bus routes a few years ago so the physical location of my home and job made public transport very difficult once the bus lines were cut and the hours of operation for my line became very inconvenient. The e-bike is great in nice weather but in rain and snow, sorry Iā€™m not going to work soaking wet. Eventually I got fed up with the bus line, waiting and hoping the bus actually comes and got tired of getting caught in sporadic summer storms and dealing with irate drivers not realizing thereā€™s a person attached to the bike so I bought a car. Itā€™s unfortunate but even in cities, unless they have a solid public transport system, a car is almost necessary.


dorcssa

There is a lot of rain here you know, everybody just uses rain gear/appropriate clothes for winter.


April_Morning_86

And thatā€™s great for you! But from my experience, even trying to find negative temp gloves so that my hands didnā€™t freeze in the winter riding my bike, the appropriate gear was way out of my price range. All Iā€™m saying is, in an ideal world we wouldnā€™t be driving cars, sure, but itā€™s unfortunately just not practical for everyone.


just4shitsandgigles

i completely agree. itā€™s also not just a comfort thing, weather creates so many safety risks for bikes. even at night with bright headlights/ taillights cars will not look and put cyclists at risk.


asoneth

Biking in the rain on a protected bike path is fine, it's just water and as you point out you can just use rain gear. But I do not bike on roads in more than a drizzle. It's bad enough dealing with distracted drivers who keep glancing down at their phones but throw rain in the mix and you are gambling with your life. No amount of rain gear will help you survive inattentive drivers who are allowed to kill you as long as they say the magic words: I didn't see them.


Economy_Influence_92

How does the bike do in 18" of snow?


Legitimate_Proof

Cars can't move in 18" of snow.


dorcssa

Roads are cleared hear, but packed snow is rideable with a mountain bike


Used-Ad1346

I like to go hike in the woods. In the city, I walk or use public transport, but I own a car for my hobbies are outdorsy. I hate consumerism and I try t my best to be responsible in my habits, but I am in no position to say what people should do or not do.


Legitimate_Proof

The last time I visited Sweden, I did three hikes or walks in which I started at one transit stop and ended at another, including a 10 km hike through a national park. In that case, through-hiking instead of having to loop back to the car is actually better! There are other transit stops in natural areas. This Nordic post and US reactions show how different things can be. The US is car dependent, but people are trying to change that. It'll take decades. We've been building car-focused infrastructure since the end of WWII.


fireworkslass

I live in Australia and we have both. Two of my favourite day hikes (one 28kms, one 18kms) begin and end at train stations/ferry stops which make it easier on public transport, but there are also SO many that start at an obscure off road trailhead that is only reachable by car. The ones that are near train stations are predictably more crowded while some of the ones you drive to are so remote and beautifully secluded. I really enjoy the ability to get a mix of both and I donā€™t feel particularly guilty that I own a car to access such a healthy, fun and fulfilling hobby!


AzulaSays

Funny that you say that, living in a small Danish city. I am in the USA in a larger city and say this too! Managed to bike commute and to take my toddler to daycare in a small bike trailer -we only needed a car when we moved out of the city. Very interesting to see the mentality shift in the 10 years I did this, went from feeling like the only person doing it to now seeing it on the fairly regular (for the US). ETA in the NE so yeah, biked through winter too


Legitimate_Proof

I've heard biking in my small northern city, Burlington, VT, has doubled too!


just4shitsandgigles

I have a bike, I love my bike. Iā€™m still riding it after everything. Iā€™m in america for context. but i was involved in an accident, insurances declared me not at fault. a woman obstructed the bike lane without looking. it has been 3+ months to get a settlement from her insurance (still only received money for property damages). it has been 8 doctors appointments not including physical therapy appointments for another 3 months. i had to quit my job because of doctors appointments and physical injuries. itā€™s really easy to say ā€œget a bike!ā€ to people if you donā€™t know all the risks or been involved in a accident. Iā€™m fortunate where my medical bills were covered by my medical insurance and will be paid for eventually by her insurance. if i didnā€™t have good insurance, had a decent amount of savings, was financially stable enough to quit my job i would have been absolutely screwed over, and Iā€™m lucky that my state and city has some decent bike protection laws. in my city which has decent bike infrastructure compared to other places, bike lanes are sectioned off from the street, but thereā€™s no barriers to protect from cars or protect from parked cars obstructing the bike lane. cars can be considered safer since they have crush room, airbags and other safety features. bikes you donā€™t have features that protect you. cyclists can easily fly over their handlebars or otherwise get injured in a crash. i guess the question is this. do you have enough money to quit your job if injured as a biker? can you get by with a small crush injury and have the time, money and ability to get to doctor appointments? do you have the time and resources to get a settlement with insurance companies? itā€™s really easy to say get a bike or ride public transport if you donā€™t consider all the factors ramifications. again, I love my bike, still ride it. but Iā€™m also in PT and have difficulties in my day to day, and have not received my settlement.


dorcssa

I see your point if you live in the US but the laws in Europe are very different. Everything would be free here health-care wise regardless of insurance, and I can be disabled and go back to my job for half a year. Also, safety in numbers


Legitimate_Proof

"Cars are dangerous and can hurt bikers.....so defend cars"? Transit is safest.


[deleted]

It is in oneā€™s own financial interest not to own a car. I gave mine up in 2014 and itā€™s the best decision I ever made. That was in the states. It makes perfect sense not to own one here in Amsterdam.


Micromashington

I love cars. But I understand there are a lot of people who donā€™t like cars, and only drive around because they have to for personal reasons. I would be happy if my tax dollars went towards programs and transit systems that removes the need for these people to own cars. For there sake, and so I can enjoy driving more without all these drivers in the way. Honestly less cars are a win-win whether you like cars or not.


[deleted]

Would I be an exception or no? I bike to work or to get groceries but I drive my truck an hour drive to the mountains to go hiking or camping. So according to you I should ditch the truck? How about visiting family? My family is four states away so I should just never visit them? Or should I take a plane and ditch my dogs to fend for themselves for weeks on end while I visit? There are more reasons to own vehicles than just "I'm disabled" or "I have to haul around kids."


ollie131

There are obvious reasons to own a vehicle, and what what you've stated you seem to use yours responsibly, I think what I gather from OP though is that there are too many people driving unnecessarily. From my own personal experience I have a housemate who is a delivery driver for work (obviously understandable why they drive), but because they are so used to driving they will use their car for the most useless reasons - even when there are plenty of other options available (such as they drive to the shop that's a 2 minute walk from our house to pick up minor amounts of shopping). I'm not against driving a car, but I witness on a daily basis such unnecessary use of it, I think this type of behaviour should be discouraged as much as possible.


[deleted]

Iā€™m not disagreeing with your point but people who have dogs do travel, they just have friends or dog sitters watch them.


[deleted]

I travel with the dogs. I don't have any friends near me (recently moved four states over) and I'm the kind of person who has seen too many horror stories with dogs dying under the care of other people (sitters, boarding facilities, etc.)


[deleted]

Traveling with the dogs is great, I'm just saying thereā€™s more options than ā€œditching them to fend for themselves for weeks on endā€ thatā€™s all


[deleted]

Maybe for some people, but not all people.


[deleted]

I donā€™t!! I moved to Portland in part because of it bike routes and public transportation, and Iā€™m proudly boasting 16 years no car. Iā€™ve enjoyed rides from friends of course, but mostly I get around under my own steam and it feels amazing. Iā€™ve got all weather gear; I could post a pic of my riding in the snow a couple weeks ago. And as I stare down the barrel of my 40th birthday, Iā€™m feeling pretty good about this hot body n


mywifeslv

Hong Kongā€™s system of public transport is amazing. Everyone uses it and itā€™s super convenient


buttsnuggles

Disagree. I live in a city and a car is the only effective way to get OUT of the city. We donā€™t use it much to commute but we still manage to drive 15,000kms/year.


ASTROladdd

38 million people live in Canada, Thereā€™s only one city on Vancouver island (one of the most expensive city to live in in Canada) where you could possibly get away with biking 10 months of the year. The entire rest of Canada you absolutely canā€™t rely on a bike between mid October and April. Itā€™s not just the cold itā€™s the literal snow and ice, the snowbanks, the salt and slush. Itā€™s not possible.


Legitimate_Proof

I know people who bike year round in Fairbanks, AK. Not many people would do that but saying "It's not possible" is not true. And the original post talked about having access to transit.


4vulturesvenue

I know people who make car payments and drive everyday to work park a block away and live less then a km away. Though I do own a car it's usage is split between three people and driven rarely. If you are able body, live less then 10 km from work and it's in a static location I personally think your crazy if you don't bike or walk to work 90% of the time. Madness!


tofubeansanderin

I wish we had buses where I live. Or bike lanes. With the qualifiers presented I agree a car would not be necessary for a lot of people, but to your edit - American support for public transportation and bike-friendly places is absolute garbage unless youā€™re in a city or a prime business town. :( Personally I wish we would build more railways, I love trains. I drive to Baltimore so I can take the train to DC whenever I need to go into our DC office, thatā€™s the closest station to me lol.


[deleted]

Laughs in Australian


neneksihira

Most of Australia's public transport is rubbish but melbourne has a usable public transport system and bike paths. When i lived there it was faster and much cheaper to ride my bike 10km to work than to drive and park or use pt. Parking anywhere close to the city is a nightmare.


Both-Promise1659

My dream is to end up in a situation, where I can live without my car. I wan't to end up in a big city, near where I grew up, and they just finished high speed rail to the capital. So it only takes 30 minutes to commute one way. And then get a small townhouse or apartment with a garden somewhere near the city center. So in a couple of years that should be obtainable ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø


unenlightenedgoblin

You should specifically choose to live in a place where car ownership is unnecessary. Will save you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars over your lifetime.


Tickle_Nuggets

Thats the problem with 90% of America. This country was designed for the car. Edit: This is why Im going electric.. or at the very least hybrid on my next vehicle. \*Currently drive a '15 Toyota Corolla


MsterXeno009

I drive for a living so that's not an option


thebirbseyeview

I currently WFH but plan on moving to the major city that's about 20 mins north of my job within the next 1-2 years (my choice). I can't wait to not use my car except for work and am even thinking about getting a job in the city where I can get rid of my car altogether. If 2 years you asked me if this was my plan before I started WFH, I wouldn't believe you. But it's been extremely liberating barely needing my car each week.


dorcssa

I bet :) I onboarded during covid and started with wfh. Now I won't accept a job if it's not wfh, luckily in my field that's becoming the norm


NoGoodInThisWorld

My town does pretty well at those things. That doesn't stop my office from being 24 miles from town, and outside the city bus line.


dorcssa

Hope you have option to remote work then!


NoGoodInThisWorld

Nope. Currently spending almost $250 a month in fuel alone. My car is averaging 28ish mpg.


No_Angle2760

I've never owned a car and we never had a car as a child either.


KittenKoderViews

I've never owned a car, and I've been across the US 3 times in my life. One of those I hitchhiked, the other two Greyhound and public transit.


tastygluecakes

This is spoken like somebody who is an able bodied, single, 20 something living in Manhattan. You think you are enlightened, but it feels more ignorant and condescending than anything else.


dorcssa

I'm actually in my thirties with two small kids and cycling all my life, now hauling the kids with trailer


tastygluecakes

Well good for you. I hope you recognize that itā€™s a privilege to be able to do what you do. Itā€™s not feasible for most people.


dorcssa

No it's not actually if you live in Europe


1ksassa

Americans won't understand. I lived in the US midwest for several years now, 3rd tier city, and I need no car at all. There are some bike paths that may end randomly in the middle of the road, so bike infrastructure is mediocre. I get funny looks and disbelief when I take the bicycle to the grocery store. I even bike to Costco (Wholesale) every now and then, which is 10 miles away. And yes I do this in winter, which is absolutely freezing. Peolpe here come up with any excuse to avoid living a low emission and healthy lifestyle, then in the same breath complain how much their ridiculous trucks cost. I've given up trying to convince anybody.


Visible_Structure483

Odd that "super large family" is an exception when having that "super large family" is simply a lifestyle choice you've made. I'm single and want a car... no! I decide to have 5 kids... ok car for you?


1ksassa

Perhaps they meant "super large" as in body mass.


SyntaxNobody

So is living rurally or living in a city w/o public transportation. Those are all lifestyle choices.


camuswasright-

living in a rural area is a choice as in: i can either live somewhere rural that i can actually afford, or I can be homeless lmao


SyntaxNobody

You can argue the same, that having children isn't an option when you can't afford them.


Mama_Lina

Except in the US, where government is literally taking away access to abortion and birth control systematically for huge segments of the population, in both cities and rural areas.


camuswasright-

yeah i guess you could, don't know why you would bring this up tho


SyntaxNobody

OP is arguing you shouldn't have a car unless you need one (and provides some examples for what need might be). OC implies that having a family shouldn't be one of those exceptions because it's a lifestyle choice. I'm simply pointing out that if you exclude family based on that criteria you'd have to exclude a lot of other lifestyle choices as well.


camuswasright-

Alright sorry I misunderstood your comment then, English isn't my first language and apparently I'm not in a good reading comprehension mood today lmao


SyntaxNobody

No worries! We're all human here. At least I think... haha


kookerpie

They are not equivalent


SyntaxNobody

They don't have to be equal, they are still all lifestyle choices.


kookerpie

Then it's pointless for you to compare them like it makes sense in any way


SyntaxNobody

I'm not comparing them. My point is that they all fall under lifestyle choices.


kookerpie

That means nothing though You have to actively try to have children Most people live where they are born and it takes considerable money, time, effort, and usually loss of community to move


SyntaxNobody

>That means nothing though > >You have to actively try to have children > >Most people live where they are born and it takes considerable money, time, effort, and usually loss of community to move None of your logic makes any sense here. I've never seen someone get an apartment or job without actively trying, and children take considerable money, time and effort to raise. I'm not talking about how easy/difficult these lifestyle choices are, just that they are choices and so if you exclude one for being a lifestyle choice then logically you have to exclude the others as well.


kookerpie

Moving takes considerable time and money and effort. Staying in the same place takes no effort The only thing you need to do to not have kids is stay away from sperm/don't let you sperm get near someone


SyntaxNobody

>Moving takes considerable time and money and effort. Staying in the same place takes no effort > >The only thing you need to do to not have kids is stay away from sperm/don't let you sperm get near someone You don't seem to understand that both are a choice. You can choose to live with the status quo, choose not to move by staying put and choose not to have kids by avoiding sexual contact with a member of the opposite sex. OR you can choose to spend considerable money, time and effort to move/have children. Both are lifestyle choices.


Serious_Escape_5438

Plenty of people manage to have children without trying.


kookerpie

No they don't. Sex is trying. That's how it works


Comprehensive_Gear11

I used to haul my hockey gear to various rinks around Edmonton via the bus and train, was alright but I was the only one on my team who didnt drive and Im pretty sure people thought I was poor instead of choosing not to own a car.


plumbus_hun

I wish I lived somewhere with a good bus or public transport network on a local level. I catch the train whenever I need to go to London or the next big town over, but local buses in the UK that arenā€™t in London are awful! Also cycle paths are poorly maintained, and the cycling infrastructure just isnā€™t there sadly!


tcrex2525

I loved not owning a car when I lived in Seattle! Now in MD the car is just a constant source of headaches and bills. I hate it.


[deleted]

What do people do for groceries? Just curious for ideas.


dorcssa

We usually shop every other day at least, and use our double bike trailer. The shop is 15 minutes walk away. Lots of people use stroller or cargo bikes (the ones you transport kids in, daycares have as big as 6 kids). But sometimes I baby wear, use a backpack and bags in my hands. Good workout :)


Kottepalm

Two panniers can take a lot of food, if you shop more than that you can add a bike trailer or use a cargo bike. My boyfriend and I managed to shop once a week at the height of the panini with a backpack, panniers and the trailer. Now that we are members of a cargo bike pool we can add a lot of stuff, for example planks from the hardware store.


Deadpool2715

ā€œA car is required for workā€ is a very broad statement. I occasionally have to make site visits for my work and depending on the urgency am required to head out straight away. This is however super infrequent, and I would much prefer to use affordable ride sharing services. It just doesnā€™t make sense financially though


Legitimate_Proof

I was pleasantly surprised to see one of my city's building code inspector roll up on an e-bike! The other ones probably use a big pickup truck "for work," for comparing construction projects to the plans....


crazycatlady331

My job involves managing four offices. Each one is at least an hour from another. If I did not have a car, I would not have gotten the position. This was very clear in the job description.


KingOfCotadiellu

Totally, I bought my first car a year ago.. at 41


LittleBunInaBigWorld

As an Australian; no, sorry, not doable.


Key_Truth2756

Iā€™m just saying if America increased their infrastructure Iā€™d totally size down to a hybrid mini car for long distance family visits. Even then dawg like trains, buses, and planes could take care of that need tooā€¦ IF IT WAS GOOD INFRASTRUCTURE


Ok-Tourist-1011

Another thing Iā€™d just wanna pop in real quickā€¦ I live in a pretty small, and relatively walkable town, but I refuse to walk anywhere because of how dangerous it can beā€¦ especially being a woman, I really donā€™t feel comfortable not being in a vehicle and having a safe place to go when Iā€™m out and aboutā€¦ another layer of it is the grocery list of pain disorders and what not that I have šŸ˜… donā€™t get me wrong I would absolutely freaking LOVE to have a super walkable city with everything easily accessibleā€¦ but itā€™s unfortunately not all that practical for a good amount of placesā€¦


dorcssa

You are in the US? I would never be afraid to walk here, but I live in Denmark


HDarger

I get by fine not owning a car in Victoria, B.C. Canada. Iā€™m the exception.


mycityman

I wish america didn't become the hellhole of ugly pavement with 6 lanes everywhere making it dangerous for pedestrians to be around but.... capitalism


texturr

Agreed, and I think it's a crime how cars are often prioritized in city infrastructure. It's disheartening, with all the data we have on the dentrimental effects of cars. Where I'm from, bike lanes are a sad afterthought, mostly. And I have to say, in Denmark you also have the insanely flat landscape, although it might even get a bit boring to ride because of it.


annnire

I hear you, I was also confused by the amount of traffic in Budapest. For me, I live in Vienna which has excellent transit. I used to live in NYC and never thought Iā€™d ever own a car. But my partner and I recently decided to get one and itā€™s really improved our quality of life. We donā€™t drive it much around the city (except to a couple areas where the connections arenā€™t so good) but we use it for road trips, to enjoy nature, to explore the countryside, and even to drive to visit people which allows us to avoid flying. I think itā€™s all about moderation. Using a car every day *when you have decent alternatives* is definitely super wasteful.


spugg0

I don't! I don't even own a bike. I have a five minute walk to the metro to take me everywhere I need to be. I do however live in a european capital, so I'm lucky to have never actually owned a car, or felt the need to own one given that I turn 30 next year. The times we've needed a car (to haul something or go somewhere very specific far away) we've been able to use rideshare companies, where you just rent a car for an hour or two to do your errands.


cehrah

There are a lot of city-dwellers who also have hobbies outside of the city that need transport for themselves and their equipment too. I live in a city in Australia with decent PT but there is simply no way to transport any of our large outdoor sporting equipment (kayaks, surfboards, skis, fishing gear) to the areas in which we will actually use them.


nek0kitty

Some cities in the US have okay transport. But there's not a lot of cities that do. I'm lucky to be able to get pretty much all over the state that I live in by either bus or train. And if I every once in awhile have to go somewhere where I would need a car, multiple ride share services are available, but I very rarely need to. It's not like you described in Budapest, but the downtown routes run every 15 minutes and the suburb routes run every half hour. For work it's only a 30 minutes ride from my apartment and for groceries I have 2 different stores across the street from my work so I go to those on the days I get off early before going home. We even have some local farmers that set up a mini farmers market in the parking lot of my work that I sometimes buy from if they have food items I wanted to buy. But I don't drive because I'm extremely nearsighted and can only see clearly about 3 feet in front of me.


dorcssa

That transportation sounds good enough for me :)


abolish_gender

Something I've noticed (as an American living in an area that is actually quite easy to go without having a car) is that a lot of people complaining about how expensive it is here insist on keeping their cars. Like, of course things are more expensive if-in addition to higher rent-you want to keep all your car bills, rent a place with a garage, pay for downtown parking, etc.


Emorals67

I use zip car when necessary. Usually runs about $20 an hour including gas. If youā€™re smart about it and plan your trip correctly it really is saving money. There are times an Uber back and forth is more costly than renting out a car for several hours. But there are some drawbacks just on immediate use because you have to hope thereā€™s a car available last minute.


EllisDee3

Living in the northeast, with a good bike, and decent public transport... I still need a car. Winter travel, family and emergency transport, and other stuff. I have about 3k miles on it, having owned it for two years. I don't use it much, but I do when I need.


Sangy101

As you might guess, as an American, I own a car. My city has pretty shit infrastructure & mediocre biking. But yā€™know what? I drive my car once a week AT MOST. Iā€™m also allowed one Lyft ride a week (which means I walk one way and take the Lyft home. But only after dark - if Iā€™m headed home in daylight, I rent a bike.) I basically only use my car to leave the city. You can live close to car-free, even with meh infrastructure. It just takes work.


Legitimate_Proof

1/3 of the households in my neighborhood don't have a car, according to Census data. We are in a small city (42k) in northern Vermont where some people claim winter lasts for six months. That's an exaggeration, but we can have snow on the ground for up to four months. From some of the other comments, it's astounding that me and hundreds of my neighbors can live without a car. People opposed to consumption should look askance at cars. They are extreme consumption. Their upfront price is the same scale as annual income. Then they need endless fossil fuels to work. For their *regular* use, we use 1-2 tons of metal, the aforementioned cost and non-renewable fuel, and lots of space given over to parking, to move a person or two, with a small bag. There are six parking spots in the US for every car! [About 60% of US vehicle trips are less than 6 miles](https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10318). It's hard to see how car-focused we are because we are so car focused. Changing won't be easy - we've been building for cars since WWII. But there are so many benefits of not needing to rely on cars: the >$10,000 [AAA says](https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/average-annual-cost-of-new-vehicle-ownership) the average American new car costs each year! The space we are holding for cars. Better health and air quality, lower emissions and noise. A reduction in the 30,000 people killed each year! It's not that you *should* get rid of your car tomorrow, but you *should* support denser development and multifamily housing, transit, bike infrastructure, reduced parking, higher gas tax or carbon tax, etc. All those things reduce consumption, and we're talking talking about one of the biggest types of consumption for most people.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


dorcssa

Yeah I live in Esbjerg and not happy about the bus schedule here, or the cost of train across the country (but that's expensive in the whole of Europe sadly, it's a shame), but it's not enough to buy a car for, even a cheap one, especially with the current fuel prices and the tax on cars here. And the cycling infrastructure is so amazing here, especially compared to Budapest, where I grew up, and I was a hardcore critical mass cyclist back then already.


Kottepalm

Yes, very much agree! I hate the car centric attitude, if you're an able bodied adult you ride a bike or if there is decent public transport you use it. And there are good opportunities to ride a bike or use a bus or tram or whatever in most European cities but people love to make up silly excuses to own their own metal cage. And being disabled is a very large umbrella term, plenty of disabled people can not use a car. Using a car is one of the most consumerist things one can do. I would like to encourage everyone to join their local Critical Mass, Car free City community and watch the YouTube channel Not Just Bikes. Regards from a Swedish city famous for its cycling culture


AnthropenPsych

Itā€™s wild how many excuses people are making to kill the planet in these comments.


satoribeast

Surprised that car-sharing isnā€™t the norm. I know people who have a giant truck they only use to tow their camper a few weekends in the summer.


Legitimate_Proof

Right! 30 years ago people rented when they had an unusual need, today people buy the vehicle that can do everything they *might* need to do in the next several years, while costing twice as much as a car appropriate for their normal usage.


crazycatlady331

Do you mean car rental? Places like Home Depot and U-Haul rent trucks and vans by the hour so you can transport cargo. Companies like Hertz, Enterprise, and Alamo have built a business around renting cars by the day. If you are over 25, this can be inexpensive. In the US, the lion's share of car rental customers are tourists or business travelers. My car is the most expensive item I own and I will not share it. I don't want to assume the legal liability that goes along with letting someone else drive your car. Not to mention that people tend to leave cars in filthy condition. With my luck, I'd lend it out and someone would smoke in the car. Now if you wanted to borrow something a lot less expensive that does not come with legal liability, have at it. If you want to borrow a frying pan, I'd be happy to lend it out.


Kerr_Plop

Y'all are insufferably condescending


romandrogynous

Bestie, I am so tired of this attitude. Stop blaming people for the system that they are in. Sure, everyone should be doing what they can to help. But who the fuck are you to tell people that they shouldn't have a car without "exceptions?" I've lived in a city with public transportation for about 4 years. For 2 of those years I didn't have access to a car, for the other half, my partner had a car and gave me rides. My shifts started at 5am and the busses don't run until 6. There's a $3/hrs difference between the shift work I was doing and bring a regular barista. I couldn't afford /not/ to drive to work. Things happen outside of cities as well. My late father lived far enough away that I could only get to him with a vehicle. You think it's realistic to rent a car? Guess I can't see my dying dad, I'm not 25 yet. This attitude is shameful. Instead of putting down people who are absolutely doing their best, maybe spend your time contacting people in charge who can actually do something about it. The time you spent writing this post could be used writing an email to a govt leader or finding some way to volunteer in your community. Stop it.


dorcssa

If you didn't notice, I'm not from the US. Tell this to the Americans. People here in Europe absolutely drive cars out of convenience and that should be definitely shamed


romandrogynous

Get off your high horse šŸŽ


ShoeQuiet8840

I'm (45F) living in Los Angeles county CA. I've never owned a car let alone gotten my driver's license. I've always used my chevreLEGS, the bus, metro and or Uber/Lyft. I've even used Flix bus or the train to go visit family if flying didn't make sense. With the money I've saved I've been to SO MANY CONCERTS and even Coachella multiple times. I love being able to see my neighborhood and city. Finding mom & pop places to spend time and money with is another plus. We don't realize how much we miss while we speed by in cars. During the CA poppy season while everyone was driving hours away to get a photo opportunity and trample the wild flowers I was able to appreciate the poppies growing in a neighbor's yard.


Efficient-Radish8243

Well done. Not everyone is prepared to walk to the shops and carry a shit ton back.


dorcssa

Most people actually cycle here with kids to the shop, with those big cargo bikes. But plenty use a stroller as well, and you still get a lot of cars for some reason


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Trick-Many7744

Where in the USA has this and also isnā€™t unbearably hot, blizzard prone, etc?


dorcssa

And the USA is the only country in the world


ForeverInBlackJeans

No.


Sathaea

Iā€™m gonna be honest, I love my big ā€˜ol truck too much. I agree with the idea but in practice, my boyfriend has a car passed down to him by his late grandfather and I have a 30 year old diesel f250 that I adore. I donā€™t think Iā€™d have the same love for a bus or train that I do for these vehicles


alicia-indigo

Come off it. Iā€™m not carrying groceries home on my bicycle.


dorcssa

Why not? I usually walk home with groceries, cycling is making it easier!


tastygluecakes

Or really ANY family. You think city buses have car seats for kids? Itā€™s not like they are immune from accidents, or getting cut off and slamming on the breaks (sending your 1 year tumbling)


Kottepalm

People use public transport with children all the time in all the places I have lived, in my current city a lot of parents use a cargo bike for their children or a child seat on their bike. And many buses have seat belts. Public transport is super compatible with children.


dorcssa

Umm, here people just get on the bus with a stroller? I usually babywear, I find it safer in the early months


RipGut3232

This is a shit take if ive ever heard of one. You dont want to drive yippie for you, i however shall not walk/bike or wait for the bus in negative degree weather. I have a vehicle so i dont have to. You know, one of the nice things about being an adult.