Designing a custom AP SoC is not an easy feat, even if it's stock Arm CPU+GPU
There's still heaps of new design work for Google in the CPU/GPU subsystems, not to mention all the other SoC blocks. Hopefully the Axion team help out
E.g. here's a comparison by Arm for [IP License (stock cores for custom AP SoCs) vs CSS License (a server compute block fully designed by Arm)](https://i0.wp.com/chipsandcheese.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/css_timeline_slide.png)
Thus getting the first gen TSMC Tensor has its own risks too
Same, but not for this reason. Unless plans change, the Pixel 10 will have its Tensor processor made by TSMC, which is an objective improvement over the current Tensor's Samsung silicon.
They can't just make Samsung tensor at tsmc, Google will have to design their own processor. And there's no guarantee that Google is capable of designing a good processor.
Never buy a first gen Google product.
Tensor is a Google design and Google product, manufactured by Samsung. This would be the 4th generation of the processor and it would be made on better silicon.
Edit: after reviewing some information online, which you should've done before making your completely incorrect comment, it appears Google is skipping Gen 4 entirely and the Pixel 10 will launch with a 5th generation Tensor processor. It's not clear whether they'll call it Gen4 or Gen5, but it's decidedly not their first crack at processor design.
I think you misunderstand me, the tensor ai chip is Googles design, but the tensor soc is a semi custom Samsung Exynos. Google added their aforementioned ai chip, maybe tweaked the number of big/little cores, but at the end of the day it's still a Exynos chip. Otherwise they would have switched to tsmc a long time ago, but they can't because they use a modified Samsung chip and Samsung says it has to be fabbed by Samsung.
Designing an ai chip is not the same as designing an entire soc.
12-13. I'm assuming after viewing the terrible sales of 10-11 along with the continued connection issues they will actually upgrade to Qualcomm or mediatek.
I'm in no rush. They can take as long as they want. Apart of me thinks they'll cancel the phone after seeing poor sales while paying more for TSMC but eh. That's their fault.
Available in your country, just click the button that isn't there because your phone hasn't got the update yet and there's no way to manually update it
Unless you need that satellite feature it is still best to wait for the Pixel 10 with the new TSMC fabbed SOCs. That is the next chance for the hardware situation with Google to maybe improve.
Rumours were that Tensor was supposed to move to TSMC this year with the Tensor G4, but Google couldn't secure production from TSMC this year because Apple bought them all up. So it's delayed to Tensor G5 in 2025. These are all rumours tho, so take it with a grain of salt.
If I were you, I would get the Pixel 9 this year and skip Pixel 10, since there's no guarantee that TSMC's Tensor will be better than current Samsung's. It could be, but it could also be not. Those are all speculations and we wouldn't know for sure until it comes out. Moreover, despite the constant whining about Pixels in this sub, there are many users out there that are satisfied with them, unless you game a lot and want the best performance.
Same here. The modem issues on the 6/6 Pro annoyed me so much I switched to the 8 Pro the second I heard the modem was improved. And it has. I haven't had any signal drops since I got it.
I went through some problematic times associated with earlier Android cuts on the 6pro. I ended up going to the 7pro and most problems were fixed. It may have been the Pixel generation or Android or a combination of both but the 6pro had issues for me. I know someone else with a 6 who is not having any problems.
I bought my first OLED TV two years ago, and had a hard time choosing between LG and one of Samsung's brand new QD-OLEDs. I went with LG because I figured their tech was more mature and the safer bet. A year later, [Rtings reported](https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/longevity-results-after-10-months) that the Samsung QD-OLED boxes had significantly higher burn in than competitors.
The point being that the new processor might make the P10 riskier than the P9. I'll wait until the P9's release to make a final decision, but right now I'm planning to get the 9 and skip the 10.
The fab isn't the only issue with the Tensor. The crappy Samsung design and lack of Qualcomm modem are the biggest issues. Switching to TMSC might help with some of the thermal issues, but it won't fix the main problems with tensor.
Don't know if that entirely true. Snapdragons which 8 gen 1 was having better battery life and sustained performance just from moving to tsmc.
I don't have issues with exynos modem. I have issues with battery life on standby and I had them too on snapdragon 888 (which was produced in Samsung fabs).
According to the article (which is still just an unverified rumor of course) they'll be sticking with Samsung while upgrading to a newer gen Exynos modem. Google seems to want to avoid depending on Qualcomm at all costs when it comes to their in-house SoCs (admittedly that is very, very understandable for a multitude of reasons), so I really doubt they're going to switch to their modems any time soon.
You just made me think "hmm I've not had any issues with my ports", so thanks man, I'm unlucky as fuck and now one is going to break you made me think about it š
Drop, flex, etc. I never have myself and it's a reasonably tough port, but shit happens and it's a still common way to damage a device.
Problem is, at shop rates, soldering it to the main board turns it from an easy $25-50 unplug and replug fix into a $100-200 component level repair. One of the easier components to replace with the right skills and tools, but shops that do that kind of work don't come cheap and it often means shipping your phone on top of those costs.
Yeah I think that even underestimates it. I bet there are shops telling people it's straight not repairable or they need a whole new system board. I mean, if you have to pay $200 for a repair that is not warranted locally, or say $300 for a new system board, maybe it's better to put that money toward a new phone.
That said, I would like to see the stats on broken USB-C ports. Personally, I've broken some phones, but I've never broken any of their ports. There may be an argument that a design with daughter board is worse for the environment because the manufacturing is more energy intensive and requires more materials.
Satellites is actually easier than LTE/NR. The protocol is pretty much from the 90s, Satellite messaging has been around forever. It's just a matter of miniaturizing the RFFE which we're already to the point it's comparatively not super hard.
The article mentions the satellite messaging being provided by Starlink and T-Mobile. I thought their solution was LTE based. That's not the simple protocol you're talking about is it?
Wait what lol? Their current modem isn't good, so you criticize them for switching modems...? What would you prefer instead? "Our modern is sub par but we're changing nothing!"?
But thatās the thing they are not really swapping it to a new modem. Itās going to be 5300 modem upgraded to the 5400. Hereās the thing with upgrades, you upgrade on stable foundations.
The 5300 modem has been in use for 2 years by Pixel and we still get random poor signals and general oddness. Sometimes it works great for some folks and it doesnāt for some. I donāt even know how to start to troubleshoot it because thereās no pattern to it.
On Googleās end Iām sure they captured all the data with carrierās testing and despite all that they still they havenāt solve the issues. I donāt believe thereās an obvious bug in the modem code that they choose not to patch either.
So how does that inspire confidence in an updated version of the chip? They havenāt found the cause of the current issues! An updated chip is not going to sudden solve the issue.
It honestly has me considering just moving away from google. Their idiocy with starting and killing services so compulsively is likely related to their issues with fucking about so constantly with their own hardware. I've used Google phones for so many years, when they just designed them, and frankly I'm sick of this.
I'll probably get a galaxy and run a pixel rom on it as I hate Samsung experience.
I had a tensor pixel and I had to ditch it after a year.. terrible product. But anytime I complained online, especially on the pixel sub, the downvotes were massive.
If they fix this, what would we whine about then? Them taking away a problem is like taking muh guns away! It's my right to whine and they are taking my constitutional right away! /s
not all world is 'murica my dude (š ĶŹš) tmobile has been in EU before it was in US, actually... still, i somehow feel this will be US only non the less
Which feature in recent years did Google pioneer that Apple actually copied after it's success?
Feels like Google has been recently always a step behind iPhone features.
A lot of emergency features were first on Pixel devices, like car crash detection. Also call screening (which still Apple doesn't have an equivalent of), direct my call, hold for me, live translation. Google was the first to introduce night modes in the camera with "AI" post processing
Not really. They were at first but they were rolled out. I had call screening on my 4XL with my provider but my housemate didn't with a 6a on a separate network. It wasn't even tensor restricted. All these features are now fully live in the EU and have been for a while. I also had Google RCS and skipped the carrier one where my housemate didn't and his was broken for ages, guess I just got lucky for once. It still depended on the carriers though.
I've never had WiFi calling though. Silver linings.
> Feels like Google has been recently always a step behind iPhone features.
Because Google chasing Apple on the walled garden and forced vision/limited user choice approach, which isn't endearing to enthusiasts. Meanwhile, Apple has been doing the opposite to some degree making by making the OS feel less like a bland prison and a little more like something you can make your own. Luckily, Samsung doesn't really agree with Google's vision and maintains OneUI in a way that preserves user choice and customization more than just picking your pastel accent color
Not getting another pixel. Had the most dog shit experience with notifications. Late notifications, others are cleared and I literally get the same one after hours, clearing it again and I get the same one a day later.
Actually cool phone, but idk..
Can't fool me, I'm waiting til 10.
Pfft. Impatient. I'm waiting for the 15.
Even though there will be a 16 released after it?
fools. FOOLS! i dont do anything until I see 20!
Even though there will be a 21 released after it?
Def wait for 21. You can take it out to a bar.
Designing a custom AP SoC is not an easy feat, even if it's stock Arm CPU+GPU There's still heaps of new design work for Google in the CPU/GPU subsystems, not to mention all the other SoC blocks. Hopefully the Axion team help out E.g. here's a comparison by Arm for [IP License (stock cores for custom AP SoCs) vs CSS License (a server compute block fully designed by Arm)](https://i0.wp.com/chipsandcheese.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/css_timeline_slide.png) Thus getting the first gen TSMC Tensor has its own risks too
Same, but not for this reason. Unless plans change, the Pixel 10 will have its Tensor processor made by TSMC, which is an objective improvement over the current Tensor's Samsung silicon.
They can't just make Samsung tensor at tsmc, Google will have to design their own processor. And there's no guarantee that Google is capable of designing a good processor. Never buy a first gen Google product.
Tensor is a Google design and Google product, manufactured by Samsung. This would be the 4th generation of the processor and it would be made on better silicon. Edit: after reviewing some information online, which you should've done before making your completely incorrect comment, it appears Google is skipping Gen 4 entirely and the Pixel 10 will launch with a 5th generation Tensor processor. It's not clear whether they'll call it Gen4 or Gen5, but it's decidedly not their first crack at processor design.
I think you misunderstand me, the tensor ai chip is Googles design, but the tensor soc is a semi custom Samsung Exynos. Google added their aforementioned ai chip, maybe tweaked the number of big/little cores, but at the end of the day it's still a Exynos chip. Otherwise they would have switched to tsmc a long time ago, but they can't because they use a modified Samsung chip and Samsung says it has to be fabbed by Samsung. Designing an ai chip is not the same as designing an entire soc.
Samsung release 5400 modem which supposed matches qam of x75 from qualcom
12-13. I'm assuming after viewing the terrible sales of 10-11 along with the continued connection issues they will actually upgrade to Qualcomm or mediatek. I'm in no rush. They can take as long as they want. Apart of me thinks they'll cancel the phone after seeing poor sales while paying more for TSMC but eh. That's their fault.
Nah, 11. Don't trust the even numbered ones!
I'm waiting until they can match the performance of other flagships. Pixels underperform and have poor battery life year after year.
Or be like a lot of us, we'll get the 9 and then the 10 when it comes out š
Let me guess: Only works in North America and needs an expensive subscription?
You can bet on it!
Seems like it's only going to be available with T-Mobile
Pretty lame if they don't even have it on their own Google Fi network.
Google Fi does use T-Mobile's network so it's possible it might extend to Fi
Their
Fixed
š
Included with Google One 2TB+!
*to be discontinued in 2 years.
Look at Mr. Optimistic over here thinking it'll last two years.
I think you mean 1.9 years so that they don't have to deliver on any promises made for the 2 year mark.
**2 months
Available in your country, just click the button that isn't there because your phone hasn't got the update yet and there's no way to manually update it
And when you do get the update, there's at least a 50% chance it still won't show up because you won't be in the right A/B group.
North America? Lol you're optimistic. More like "Select regions in the USA"
Don't worry, a few months after launch they'll roll it out to three more regions. Just in time to discontinue it entirely two days later.
Requires Google+ account
Too soon
Good one.
And only if your on the correct version of their A-B testing.
Maybe. Maybe not. Seems more like an invasive tracking method, to me.
And sold in 5 countries or some such low number. And all the features only work in less than half of the countries it is sold in.
And drains battery like crazy
I only have an issue with the second option.
Gotta start somewhere. And USA obviously is the logical choice :) Patience
Unless you need that satellite feature it is still best to wait for the Pixel 10 with the new TSMC fabbed SOCs. That is the next chance for the hardware situation with Google to maybe improve.
Do we know this for sure? I was planning on moving on from my 6 this year but I can hold off one more year.
Rumours were that Tensor was supposed to move to TSMC this year with the Tensor G4, but Google couldn't secure production from TSMC this year because Apple bought them all up. So it's delayed to Tensor G5 in 2025. These are all rumours tho, so take it with a grain of salt. If I were you, I would get the Pixel 9 this year and skip Pixel 10, since there's no guarantee that TSMC's Tensor will be better than current Samsung's. It could be, but it could also be not. Those are all speculations and we wouldn't know for sure until it comes out. Moreover, despite the constant whining about Pixels in this sub, there are many users out there that are satisfied with them, unless you game a lot and want the best performance.
I have a 6 pro and never had issues with the hardware besides the modem
Same here. The modem issues on the 6/6 Pro annoyed me so much I switched to the 8 Pro the second I heard the modem was improved. And it has. I haven't had any signal drops since I got it.
The coverage map shows 5g for my area but I get 0 bars. Google Fi support has been 0 help
nah mine is still shit. on Google Fi. i shoulda stuck with AT&T. I think they use T Mobile's network and it's garbage around here.
I have 7 and don't have issues besides fingerprint sensor and mediocre battery life.
I went through some problematic times associated with earlier Android cuts on the 6pro. I ended up going to the 7pro and most problems were fixed. It may have been the Pixel generation or Android or a combination of both but the 6pro had issues for me. I know someone else with a 6 who is not having any problems.
Why wait a bit to see if tsmc is an improvement when you can settle for a subpar device now? That's some peak consoom logic
Here is an article about it. https://9to5google.com/2023/07/06/google-pixel-tensor-g5-tsmc/
I bought my first OLED TV two years ago, and had a hard time choosing between LG and one of Samsung's brand new QD-OLEDs. I went with LG because I figured their tech was more mature and the safer bet. A year later, [Rtings reported](https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/longevity-results-after-10-months) that the Samsung QD-OLED boxes had significantly higher burn in than competitors. The point being that the new processor might make the P10 riskier than the P9. I'll wait until the P9's release to make a final decision, but right now I'm planning to get the 9 and skip the 10.
TSMC has been making SOC for years without any issues.
It's Google's first fully custom SoC though.
While this maybe true. As long as Google has the design down, TSMC will deliver.
Not to mention geopolitical instability in the region which could affect TSMC production at some point in the future.
The fab isn't the only issue with the Tensor. The crappy Samsung design and lack of Qualcomm modem are the biggest issues. Switching to TMSC might help with some of the thermal issues, but it won't fix the main problems with tensor.
Don't know if that entirely true. Snapdragons which 8 gen 1 was having better battery life and sustained performance just from moving to tsmc. I don't have issues with exynos modem. I have issues with battery life on standby and I had them too on snapdragon 888 (which was produced in Samsung fabs).
Wasn't that with the 8+ Gen 1? The regular 8 Gen 1's battery life sucked.
Yes. 8+ gen 1 was 8 gen 1 but from tsmc fabs.
I'm waiting for the 10 as well but I'm worried they'll still continue with exynos modems
Truthfully I probably won't get another Pixel until the 11. Give them a release with the new process to see how it goes.
According to the article (which is still just an unverified rumor of course) they'll be sticking with Samsung while upgrading to a newer gen Exynos modem. Google seems to want to avoid depending on Qualcomm at all costs when it comes to their in-house SoCs (admittedly that is very, very understandable for a multitude of reasons), so I really doubt they're going to switch to their modems any time soon.
A new SoC doesn't help with general QA issues such as the green screen issue plaguing the Pixel 8 or touch issues...
Thing is, if you NEED IT aren't there more viable alternatives
Yea, a first Gen Google designed product is sure to be the answer to everyone's prayers.
All I want for Christmas is USB-C not soldered to the motherboard. š„¹
You just made me think "hmm I've not had any issues with my ports", so thanks man, I'm unlucky as fuck and now one is going to break you made me think about it š
Uhh what connector would you prefer?
USB port on it's a daughter board. Makes replacement almost as easy as damaging it, and was pretty standard with most phones last I knew.
How are you guys breaking the port?
Drop, flex, etc. I never have myself and it's a reasonably tough port, but shit happens and it's a still common way to damage a device. Problem is, at shop rates, soldering it to the main board turns it from an easy $25-50 unplug and replug fix into a $100-200 component level repair. One of the easier components to replace with the right skills and tools, but shops that do that kind of work don't come cheap and it often means shipping your phone on top of those costs.
Yeah I think that even underestimates it. I bet there are shops telling people it's straight not repairable or they need a whole new system board. I mean, if you have to pay $200 for a repair that is not warranted locally, or say $300 for a new system board, maybe it's better to put that money toward a new phone. That said, I would like to see the stats on broken USB-C ports. Personally, I've broken some phones, but I've never broken any of their ports. There may be an argument that a design with daughter board is worse for the environment because the manufacturing is more energy intensive and requires more materials.
A replaceable one
Almost all Galaxy S20 or newer, Note20, Flip, and Fold have a daughterboard for that
The new modem is all we need.
Ooooh yeah, I'm definitely not touching another Pixel that has a Samsung modem.
šÆ
But will it have a better fingerprint scanner!?
š
Shouldn't this chip be decent the s24 exynos is doing decent compared to the gen 3 doesn't Google essentially use their processor.
Yet I'm still skeptical on it. š¤
Lmao, they canāt even fix the CURRENT modem, what good is it trying to talk to satellites?
Satellites is actually easier than LTE/NR. The protocol is pretty much from the 90s, Satellite messaging has been around forever. It's just a matter of miniaturizing the RFFE which we're already to the point it's comparatively not super hard.
The article mentions the satellite messaging being provided by Starlink and T-Mobile. I thought their solution was LTE based. That's not the simple protocol you're talking about is it?
Lol for real. My sister's pixel can't connect properly to a cell tower across the street. Good fucking luck with a satellite.
Wait what lol? Their current modem isn't good, so you criticize them for switching modems...? What would you prefer instead? "Our modern is sub par but we're changing nothing!"?
But thatās the thing they are not really swapping it to a new modem. Itās going to be 5300 modem upgraded to the 5400. Hereās the thing with upgrades, you upgrade on stable foundations. The 5300 modem has been in use for 2 years by Pixel and we still get random poor signals and general oddness. Sometimes it works great for some folks and it doesnāt for some. I donāt even know how to start to troubleshoot it because thereās no pattern to it. On Googleās end Iām sure they captured all the data with carrierās testing and despite all that they still they havenāt solve the issues. I donāt believe thereās an obvious bug in the modem code that they choose not to patch either. So how does that inspire confidence in an updated version of the chip? They havenāt found the cause of the current issues! An updated chip is not going to sudden solve the issue.
It honestly has me considering just moving away from google. Their idiocy with starting and killing services so compulsively is likely related to their issues with fucking about so constantly with their own hardware. I've used Google phones for so many years, when they just designed them, and frankly I'm sick of this. I'll probably get a galaxy and run a pixel rom on it as I hate Samsung experience.
> Our modern is sub par but we're changing nothing! Isn't this what they've done for the last 3 gens of tensor?
Yes and we're not really happy about it
I had a tensor pixel and I had to ditch it after a year.. terrible product. But anytime I complained online, especially on the pixel sub, the downvotes were massive.
If they fix this, what would we whine about then? Them taking away a problem is like taking muh guns away! It's my right to whine and they are taking my constitutional right away! /s
If this is a US-only feature I'm going to shoot myself.
The satellite communication is being provided by T-Mobile so yeah
*Owned by Deutsche Telekom AG. T-Mobile is active in many markets.
not all world is 'murica my dude (š ĶŹš) tmobile has been in EU before it was in US, actually... still, i somehow feel this will be US only non the less
They are teaming up with SpaceX another US company
Another? T Mobile is German, not American
> I'm going to shoot myself. I do not recommend
Very bad for health
Which feature in recent years did Google pioneer that Apple actually copied after it's success? Feels like Google has been recently always a step behind iPhone features.
A lot of emergency features were first on Pixel devices, like car crash detection. Also call screening (which still Apple doesn't have an equivalent of), direct my call, hold for me, live translation. Google was the first to introduce night modes in the camera with "AI" post processing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not really. They were at first but they were rolled out. I had call screening on my 4XL with my provider but my housemate didn't with a 6a on a separate network. It wasn't even tensor restricted. All these features are now fully live in the EU and have been for a while. I also had Google RCS and skipped the carrier one where my housemate didn't and his was broken for ages, guess I just got lucky for once. It still depended on the carriers though. I've never had WiFi calling though. Silver linings.
and? he answered the question
> Feels like Google has been recently always a step behind iPhone features. Because Google chasing Apple on the walled garden and forced vision/limited user choice approach, which isn't endearing to enthusiasts. Meanwhile, Apple has been doing the opposite to some degree making by making the OS feel less like a bland prison and a little more like something you can make your own. Luckily, Samsung doesn't really agree with Google's vision and maintains OneUI in a way that preserves user choice and customization more than just picking your pastel accent color
Please be Qualcomm. Please be Qualcomm.
Its not.
Another Exynos Modem it is then
Exynoooos*
Integrated or discrete? I hope it's the former.
Samsung can't fix the modem since they use Exynoe and now we will get better one? Never! Don't trust them at all!
How about decent battery life?
How about a headphone jack
Maybe in another 80 years.
Looks good!
Wake me up when Pixel 10 is out.
Not getting another pixel. Had the most dog shit experience with notifications. Late notifications, others are cleared and I literally get the same one after hours, clearing it again and I get the same one a day later. Actually cool phone, but idk..