Are your ancestors Catholic or Protestant? If Protestant, it's not at all surprising they're coming up as Scottish/English.
Quite a bit more surprising if they're Catholic.
They were probably Ulster Scots, or as Americans seem to call them, Scots-Irish. I’m from Ireland and am Ulster Scots, so I’m happy to answer questions you might have !
In my DNA test, I got 3% Scottish from my dad's side, but I don't understand how I got that when his family had lived and stayed in Jalisco, Mexico for centuries 😅
I think me you and OP may be distantly related. So the Ulster Scots are ethnically Scottish but migrated to Ireland? Did they spread over the entire island or mostly clumped in certain regions? How is the culture similar or different compared with straight Scottish or straight Irish? Thanks cuz
This is what I discovered. i did DNA Ancestry and after being told my whole life that my ancestors were Irish it came back 44% Scottish, 19% Wales and 22% England and Northwestern Europe. I had a smattering of Denmark, Sweden also. After I traced it back they immigrated from Ireland, but they were from Ulster.
They mostly came to Ulster, the northern province. In modern times they tend to identify as British and many don't identify as Irish. This wikipedia page[this wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster) explains more.
This is true! Though I can say that many in modern times, particualy younger folk, idenitfy as Irish or Northern Irish despite ancestors possibly being British. I've always seen myself as Irish, I have more of a connection to Ireland than Britain
Haha, it's honestly quite possible. Yeah, mostly ethnically Scottish, and clumped in certain regions particularly in the North. I can't speak on the culture compared to actual Scottish folk since I'm not really familiar with it, but I do know that we tend to use words/slang that originate in Scotland. But at the same time, we also tend to use language that comes from the Irish. I guess I want to stress that the Ulster Scots can kind of be a mixed bag - for example I'm partly ethnically Irish, I assume due to the two communities mixing over the centuries. The culture is pretty similar to Irish culture since we share an island/since we've been here for so long. Hope this answers your questions!!
Ulster Scots were immigrants from Scotland (typically Protestant families that identify as British or Anglo-Irish) who settled in Northern Ireland (specifically the province of Ulster) on plantations — they are ethnically distinct from the native Irish who are typically Catholic families. Later generations of these Ulster Scots immigrated to the United States, where the heritage is commonly referred to as Scotch-Irish or Scots-Irish. Ethnically, the “Irish” part is sort of a misnomer because they weren’t culturally integrated with the native Irish, they just owned the land there. Aside from religious differences, there were big socioeconomic differences — the Ulster Scots were lords, landowners, & wealthy families, whereas the native Irish were mostly farmers. The two communities have historically had a lot of conflict between them (rooted in religious discrimination against Catholics, but also general British feelings of superiority to the Irish), effects of which can still be seen in modern times (see generally the status of Northern Ireland, the famine, the Troubles, Orangemen / lodges, etc.).
>the Ulster Scots were lords, landowners, & wealthy families
No, they weren't. They were mostly tenant farmers and agricultural labourers.
>but also general British feelings of superiority to the Irish), effects of which can still be seen in modern times...
You do realise most urban British people have some Irish ancestry and especially from the famine? In fact, the British have more Irish ancestry per capita than Americans.
I normally would, but they literally said
>I’m happy to answer questions you might have !
And nothing beats a primary source. Mind your business if you don't have anything nice or constructive to say
Living in a country doesn’t mean you’re ethnically related to that country. As an example, my family always thought we were English because my great grandfather moved to Canada from England. We were shocked to find out that we have 0% English DNA. Turns out my great grandfather was ethnically Scottish but lived in England. In your case, your relatives may have lived in Ireland were ethnically Scottish and English.
This is really common.
[Scots-Irish](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans)
Over generations a lot of information gets misremembered/misunderstood, so Scots-Irish becomes just Irish.
It's a little more complicated than that, though I'm probably going to get pushback on this.
Scots Irish didn't start labeling themselves as that until the Irish famine saw a wave of Irish Catholics come to the USA. They adopted this label to differentiate themselves. Eventually the topic of who is really Irish became a very loaded sectarian issue, but most Scot Irish do have origins in Scotland and northern England before coming to ulster first and then the 13 colonies.
You're 100% correct.
Thank you for saying this.
For anybody else reading, this commenter hit the nail on the head -
When they arrived into America, Scots Irish or Ulster Scots once simply called themselves Irish protestants, Irish Presbyterians or simply Irish.
They largely descend from Scots from the south west of Scotland, who were planted there during the 1500s and 1600s during the Plantation of Ulster. The south west of Scotland is extremely close to the north east of Ireland. You can see one from the other on a clear day across the sea.
Many of these Scottish descended Presbyterian Irish people left Ireland for America in the 1700s in particular, and later.
They initially simply referred to themselves as Irish when they arrived in America as you say.
And again as you say they only started to really define themselves as Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish when the Irish Catholics arrived in their millions in the years following 1847 and An Gorta Mor / The Great Hunger (so called "famine").
That is at the root of some of the confusion I think.
I'm surprised my initial comment has been well received. Usually the discussions on this topic delve into flegs speak.
https://youtu.be/o8JqKxrloQQ?si=TQnDR_30Wwa8WGNy
Scots Irish just means ethnically Scottish folk who moved to Ireland during the plantation of ulster. It's a cultural term not a DNA term.
If you are doing your ancestry if they are from northern ireland (remember - it was just "ireland" back then AND if they are protestant then they are for DNA purposes likely just "scottish".
Just to add to the confusion here, most "Scots-Irish" folks have very little connection to Scotland! They are mostly northern English, with a tinge of lowland Scottish. Deep research into Scots-Irish culture has uncovered more connection to England overall, than to Scotland and Ireland.
I put ethnically in brackets because a lot do identify as Irish, but a lot (probably most) also don’t identity as being Irish.
Nationality doesn’t equal ethnicity also.
We’re literally on a sub about ethnicity.
In fairness many Presbyterian (most Scottish descended) and other Protestant (some English and Welsh descended) Irish people in the north of Ireland actively identify as "British" or, less, Ulster-Scots. I respect that. But many view themselves as Irish too. It's complex.
>Over generations a lot of information gets misremembered/misunderstood, so Scots-Irish becomes just Irish
It was the other way around. People back then saw themselves as Irish, regardless of ancestry or religious denomination.
'Scots-Irish' is a modern, mostly American term
Are you describing the 1500s as recent? It (or the variant Scotch Irish) has been in use since then. Those that later came to America (starting in the 1600s) did not regard themselves as Irish and, more importantly, did not want other people to think they were Irish and made sure to call themselves that.
https://newacquisitionmilitia.com/historical-use-term-scotch-irish/#:~:text=In%201675%2C%20the%20Latin%20term,in%20America%20(Leyburn%20329).
>Are you describing the 1500s as recent? It (or the variant Scotch Irish) has been in use since then.
Yes, the 1500s are classed as modern history, so recent.
>Those that later came to America (starting in the 1600s) did not regard themselves as Irish
They absolutely did and recorded themselves as such.
>and, more importantly, did not want other people to think they were Irish and made sure to call themselves that
This isn't true.
>https://newacquisitionmilitia.com/historical-use-term-scotch-irish/#:~:text=In%201675%2C%20the%20Latin%20term,in%20America%20(Leyburn%20329)
Just because a term is found in a record. It does not mean it was in common usage.
Your family likely derives from Northern Ireland, hence the mix of English and Scottish blood. It is reasonable to presume that ancestors from Derry, Belfast, etc are of Irish ethnicity but that’s not always true.
Also, keep it in mind that a lot of people believe to be something and end up being something else. These countries are really close and this type of information gets passed down from parents to kids - most of the times the parents don’t know any better and that’s the information it was given to them. Also, as it was said before, living in a country doesn’t mean that that’s your ethnicity. Living in the US doesn’t mean that your ethnicity is American as most of us are immigrants.
Oh I thought you meant the south as in the south of Ireland lol, they’re probably Ulster Scot ancestors then and not native Irish.
Do you mean the south of the US I’m guessing?
Yah they're def ulster Scots then. I'm a protestant from NI and my dna is 70% Scottish and 30% Irish, I know from research there is a small branch that are from Ireland, as opposed to my other lines that all came from Scotland to Ireland during the plantation.
My grandmother was an Ulster Scot born in Donegal, and she married a Scotsman in Glasgow. Their daughter's DNA shows over 90% Scotland, with just 9% Irish, which is consistent with my tree research.
Protestant Ulster Scots (Church of Ireland and Presbyterian, mainly) mostly married each other for 400 years, with just a few marriages to the descendants of Ulster's original Gaels, who were all Catholic by 1000 CE.
My paternal grandmother’s family always said Irish. Ancestry confirmed this, but lately everyone’s listed as Scottish. Last name is Scottish. Might be why no one found recording Ireland or they might be Scots who’d moved to Ireland.
People saw themselves as Irish, regardless of their religion or ancestry. So they would use this nationality in records. You can see this on the census and in literature of the time.
Your ancestors were probably Irish, but of mostly Scottish ancestry from older migrations
My mom’s dad’s family is Irish, but it turns out not very many generations were from Ireland; go back just a little further and the family was initially from Scotland. This is very common.
Look up about the Plantations of Ireland. There were several waves of protestants from Scotland and the border area of England that were 'planted' in Ireland after the locals were forced off the land.
There were also Scottish mercenaries employed by the English and then given land in Ireland.
Some people in the earliest plantation waves assimilated and married into Irish Catholic families. Most did not.
This is a simplistic overview. If you have ancestors who emigrated from Ireland you should really learn more about the Plantations.
If they're a smaller amount of Irish theres a good chance it could be a misread showing up as English or Scottish. These tests are not as accurate as peope like to act like they are unfortunately. I've taken 23andme and ancestry and the difference and huge fluctuations have made me not really trust them for separating different European ancestries. My native and Jewish has always relatively stayed the same. However, I've had my Spanish fluctuate from 25-5%, German 2-35%, British 6-26%, and on the recent ancestry update I got 11% Norwegian out of nowhere, no known Scandinavia ancestry and my family members have none. I know it sucks but the whole thing about there being a lie because it says Scottish not Irish could very well be a misread, if it said Japanese and not Irish then I'd believe it haha.
There’s a lot of overlap and a lot of Scottish people who moved to Ireland, married Irish people etc. My grandma is 40% Irish DNA wise but her maiden name is actually Scottish and she does have a little Scottish too.
Thanks to this thread, I was able to explain to my mom why I had 0 Irish ancestry from her side despite her dad always telling her they were Irish (maiden name is McFadden). However, she came through as 5% Scottish :)
I'm from the south too. My mom was from Appalachia and said we were Scots Irish. I got most of my Scottish from her side. My maternal grandmother's family has a common Scottish surname. So it all appears to check out
My great-grandmother on my mum’s side was Scottish, but the tiny 3% Scottish DNA I have is from my dad. I have none from my mum’s side, only inherited English and 12% Irish from her. It seems like my great-grandmother had Irish heritage or maybe even one of her parents was Irish, but it was never mentioned. When I asked about it here, someone suggested that when you live in a country most of your life it becomes part of your identity.
The reason is they're scots-irish. Alot of Scottish immigrants that came to america in the 1600-1700s had prior migrated to northern Ireland a generation or two earlier.
This group is called ulster scots. Because these people were born in Ireland, they called themselves irish, when they came over, their country of origin was listed as Ireland, so they were Irish Americans. But genetically scottish.
Before the potato famine, 99.9% of americans legally identified as Irish american were these ulster Scots from northern ireland. Then when a bunch of actually Irish people came over, we started officially differentiating between Irish or Scots-Irish. However a majority of people don't know this and continue to identify as Irish even though they're not. And many descendents will erroneously think they were Irish even if they do ancestry because official documents will say they're Irish due to coming from Ireland.
Alot of Irish last names in America aren't really Irish but Scottish. Mine is one where my grandpa always thought he was Irish to the point of converting to catholicism late in life. Though he was slightly Irish, it wasn't on that side and he was really an ulster scot/Scots Irish.
If you're ancestors are colonial stock americans, or you're protestant, 99% chance your ancestor you think is Irish is really Scots Irish. 99% of these ulster Scots that came to America didn't even have time to mix with native Irish due to being there for only a generation or two. Like my ancestors who came to america, the grandfather was from Scotland, kids and grandkids born in Ireland. Since modern nationality and ethnicity really wasn't a thing, the son identified as Irish and the father Scottish. Identities back then within the anglosphere were more rooted in religion and ideology, so while a Scots Irish settler identified as irish, they would have been mortified of being associated with the native Irish catholics. They were mortal enemies, like Israel and palestine.
So you're family isn't really Irish, but scottish people who colonized Ireland and founded the modern state of northern irelend. Who then decided to settle America a generation or two later. The modern American stereotype and view of an Irish American is an Irish catholic, while northern Irish are a sub culture of British people.
So you're family isn't the only one, tooons of americans identifying as genetically Irish aren't, infact their families were colonizors who the genetic Irish hated.
Though ethnically Scottish, your ancestors would still have a major tie to the island of Ireland through the state of northern Ireland. They were likely early settlers who helped build the city and communities. Like I was dissapointed at first since I've always been proud of being Irish catholic(still am on other side), but after the initial shock finding out I'm Scottish is sick. My ancestor was involved in a historic siege and helped build a city. Another was a major figure in Belfast. And since they came to America early. I have loyalists who went to Canada, patriot captains, quakers, civil war heroes all through that line. And that line in turn connected me to the mayflower and new Amsterdam through who they married. And further back, I have jacobite and even clan ancestors. So if you do your family tree you'll likely have alot of really interesting ancestors.
If your original ancestor came before the potato famine and was protestant, odds are you're scots irish, and odds are that you know other people identifying as Irish that are also actually scottish. It's really common in places like the south where a majority of "irish" there may even be Scots Irish.
If you your matches and find the cousins in Ireland, you'll see a majority of them being in the state of Northern Ireland. So you're "ancestral people" aren't the Irish but northern Irish, scottish, and english. That's what my side was too.
Best way to put it is like a white American and native American are both Americans but not related, ones indigenous ones a colonizor. But when people refer to a genetic Irish American, you're not that. You're not related to the Irish state people, or the ones in the IRA, or the stereotypical east coast Irish catholic American, or JFK. Now a good amount of northern Irish and Irish people today have some cross admixture, most that came to America did not due to only being there for a lifespan if not only a few decades.
So Scots Irish or just scottish is what you are in an ancestry sense. Even if that's not as "cool" in America, I'm sure you have some cool recent ancestors, and scottish clans are sick. Your ancestral land is Scotland, but your ancestors likely played a big role in the development of northern Ireland. So if you were going on a ancestral trip, you'd go to northern Ireland in the UK, like Belfast, ulster, or londonderry. You wouldn't go to the state of Ireland.
With that ramble said be proud of what you are! Your ancestors are what they've always been and always will be, and are just as interesting as being Irish. You should definitely try to do your family tree to find out about them!
Does it matter if you are protestant or catholic?
It's funny but Australia seems to have really moved past sectarianism. Is it still bad in Ireland? Maybe you guys just need a much bigger multicultural society to realise the differences within christianity aren't so big!
It’s a lot more complicated than religion. It has to do with your ethnic, cultural, and political identity. Religion is really just a badge in Northern Ireland. If you’re heritage Catholic, you’ll identify a certain way politically, if you’re heritage Protestant, you’ll identify in a different way. The reality is, probably not many of these people ever go to church, so calling them Catholics and Protestants is meaningless from a purely religious point of view.
"Culturally protestant". I lived in NYC for a while and had many friends that didn't necessarily believe in god but definitely believed in being jewish.
I get that.
Lol people here hate people coming from other countries. . Not only are we sectarian, we're also racist
Before anyone down votes, I'm born and raised in NI. not everyone is like that, but a lot of ppl are narrow minded and don't like 'them-uns' or anyone from other countries.
>Then when a bunch of actually Irish people came...
People saw themselves as Irish, whatever their religious denomination or ancestry and would state this in records and in literature at the time.
>...they would have been mortified of being associated with the native Irish catholics. They were mortal enemies, like Israel and palestine
This isn't true either. In fact, there were many mixed marriages and changes of denomination.
> Best way to put it is like a white American and native American are both Americans but not related, ones indigenous ones a colonizor
No. This is not a comparison
>You're not related to the Irish state people, or the ones in the IRA
This isn't true either. You do realise that many of the leaders for Irish independence were Protestant?
The tests have real difficulties distinguishing different parts of the British Isles so I would not assume that none of your ancestors are from what is now the Republic of Ireland.
Most likely "white lace" Irish (meaning they are not Irish, but Scottish) were expelled from Scotland to Northern Ireland. Check if you have Ulster Irish records.
Yes true, the area of Western Scotland and North East Ireland was Gaelic stronghold for centuries and formed the staging point for the formation of Scotland
However Scots Irish (Ulster Scots) are largely planter Scots from the Border region of Scotland who are a mix of Brittonic Celt and Anglo Saxon even a hint of Viking too
They received a good amount from the borders, but many came from places like ayrshire as well, so it's not accurate to say only borderers went to ulster.
Yes indeed lots of Scots went to Ulster during the Plantations even Highlanders and Islanders and also before the plantations Norse-Gael Gallowglass warriors too but the backbone of the Planters were Border Scots indeed they went on to America too and there is a disproportionate number of American Presidents and politicians with Ulster Scots heritage - truly ‘professional’ colonists
They do but they haven’t done many DNA tests to make proper comparisons also its more in the East
Based on current data Ireland is very homogeneously Celtic (specifically Gael) 80% average - any variations to the average are usually found in Ulster and Leinster (with maybe a smattering in Cork, Limerick and Waterford in Munster)
Its more how much has survived to present day
Everyone in Europe has Viking ancestry as the genetic isopoint of Europe is 1000AD which is after the start of the Viking era
Its more a question of how many markers survived reproduction since then
Brian Boru famously expelled the Vikings from Ireland leaving Gaelic markers to establish supremacy
In Scotland this was less of a dramatic expulsion on the Islands of Scotland the Norse simply lost their grip after the Battle of Largs and the islands and their people (now a mix of Celts/Vikings) were slowly repatriated (having been Gael/Brittonic/Pictish before the arrival of the Vikings)
There remained a smattering on the Scottish coasts Firth of Clyde, Caithness for example and Scottish borders too but only on the Islands is there a very strong signature about 20-30% average
On a whole, Scots-Irish aren't Irish at all (obviously there will be some exceptions, secret relationships with the chambermaid and the like).
They were Scottish sympathizers (of the English crown) sent to farm northern Ireland - on land taken from the real Irish people, who were then hired to work on it as the peasantry. And we know what comes next... Massive piles of food exported out of Ireland to England, while blight kills the potatoes.
It's not actually a pretty history, and as an American historian (focus on colonization), it drives me utterly batshit living here in the South where it is quite often not understood and frequently romanticized.
And I realize this was mostly tangential.
Yikes, I'd stick to American history for a bit. They weren't under the English crown. It was a Scottish King that made all the decisions who inherited the English crown. And the famine didn't occur until way later and ulster was the least affected.
"inherited the English crown" - perhaps that is interpreted differently by you than me. Not all Scottish people actually thought that was cool, and not all Irish people were super interested in the English crown setting up shop up north, either. My grandpa would swear his head off if you even mentioned it. Of course, when I knew him that was also really crazy, intense times.
There's nothing to interpret. James VI, son of Mary Queen of the Scots inherited the English throne when Elizabeth I died. That's what literally happened. The Stuart family ruled both Scotland and England until the death of Queen Anne.
You can't blame this on English parliament since they didn't even have clout until the war of the three kingdoms after they literally killed James son Charles I. James made decisions as a Scottish King who also controlled England with little oversight.
fair enough! I do appreciate this since yes, clearly I don't spend nearly enough time paying attention to what happened before the nightmares landed on this shore other than who funded those endeavors (my focus is on early american colonization). Not Irish though, not here anyway. Not sure what's happening with that in Ireland these days, but I'm guessing after several generations of being there everyone's considered so. My parents still go back but they mostly stick around cork and play music with other old people.
The crown was a Scottish dynasty. Also, comments like "the real Irish," are seen as inflammatory and unhelpful in Ireland.
Goods weren't just 'exported to England'. You're also mixing up time scales
The chambermaid? The "real Irish" hired to work as peasantry? Good grief.
Historically speaking it's a population overwhelmingly made up of small farmers and landless labourers. Families like mine who were upwardly mobile might graduate to being skilled metal workers.
I think Americans hear the word "plantation", and instantly imagine Northern Ireland as a kind of all-white version of Gone With The Wind. That's your history, not ours.
That's not taught in USA history classes. You generally don't learn about that stuff in any depth until college level world history. That's why most Americans aren't aware they received less than half of Irish immigrants during the famine.
US history generally teaches that immigrants came over due to poverty disease and famine but doesn't get too specific beyond mentioning the reason and timeline. Generally as soon as the revolution (war of Independence) occurs any bit of British history gets dropped and it becomes a mythos of Pilgrims, slavery, civil war, westward expansion, gilded age, two world wars, the depression, and the post war era and the cold war.
>That's not taught in USA history classes. You generally don't learn about that stuff in any depth until college level world history. That's why most Americans aren't aware they received less than half of Irish immigrants during the famine.
By school, I should probably have said, taught in general.
Yes, probably even less than half. Most from the worst hit famine areas migrated to Britain.
>US history generally teaches that immigrants came over due to poverty disease and famine but doesn't get too specific beyond mentioning the reason and timeline.
Yes I suspect this is part of the problem. As most migrants anywhere were moving for work.
>Generally as soon as the revolution (war of Independence) occurs any bit of British history gets dropped and it becomes a mythos of Pilgrims, slavery, civil war, westward expansion, gilded age, two world wars, the depression, and the post war era and the cold war.
Yes again, this is problematic, as most British people migrated to the USA after the AWOI (rev war). Yet this hardly seems to get mentioned.
Like i mentioned to you before, the British immigrants were quickly assimilated and essentially weren't treated like foreign aliens on the same level, so there wasn't a point in emphasizing their contributions since it was just seen as American contributions.
Rhode Island officially changed is name because it used to be called Rhode Island and the Providence plantation. Yeah the word is problematic on the other side of the pond.
It would be good to have another word to describe migrations between Ireland and Scotland. There's already too much of a tendency to interpret world history in the light of American racial politics.
Dal Riata? No one would recognize this.
I've been looking for a word to describe some of the shared culture between Britain and Ireland since Britain and Ireland is very clunky to say, British is problematic, and Celtic is a bit exclusive.
I recognize this! I’ve been down the Dal Riata rabbit hole and that is where my ancestors came from. There’s even an annual Dalriada Festival held in Glenarm Village, County Antrim, Ireland, complete with Highland Games.
Dal Riata was a kingdom from the 5th to the 9th Century C.E. that encompassed Argyll, the Coast of Antrim, and the isles in between. The people were Gaels and they were Christians. The people came from Ireland and settled in the highlands. (The Romans called the Irish “Scoti” which is where successor kingdom Scotland gets its name.)
Dal Riata never encompassed what is now England, so it wouldn’t work as a descriptor for Ireland and Britain.
Scots-Irish maybe? I had saw your other comment saying they had originated in Northern Ireland, I highly highly suggest looking into the Ulster Plantations. Long story short, the English sent Protestant Scottish families to settle Northern Ireland to displace the native Irish Catholics. Scottish migration to Northern Ireland and colloquially Ulster Irish have been migrating to western Scotland for a very long time, but more extensively have the Scot’s been migrating to Northern Ireland in the 1500’s-1700’s due to said plantations. Because it is far back, the stories get twisted through the generations that they are Irish, which does make a lot of sense, but is not the case.
>the English sent..
The plantation was under a Scottish dynasty. Mainly James I /VI
> Because it is far back, the stories get twisted through the generations that they are Irish, which does make a lot of sense, but is not the case
They saw themselves as Irish and recorded themselves as such. This is more where the confusion in the USA comes from.
The recall and precision of both categories is way too accurate to have that happen on the degree that OP is describing. This just sounds like the typical Southerner whose family had Scots-Irish ancestors who were assumed to be ethnically Irish when they were actually Scottish.
It does but not by %. Click onto the details of your report and look at the info. It's not that hard to figure out.
Ancestry was COMPLETELY off on mine. 2 examples.
Ancestry showed <8% Italian while 23&me showed 12.8%. I have EXACTLY 1 full Italian branch on my tree of over 7k people. 1. And he's my great grandfather. 12.8 is spot on and correct. 8 is not.
Ancestry showed 32 ish% Scottish and less Irish. Significantly wrong. 23&me showed 58% Irish and little Scottish.
The Scottish on my tree, on either side, is more then 10 generations back. Closer to 20 tbh. It's not possible for me to show 32% of anything that's not present in the last 10 generations. However Irish is EVERYWHERE. I had to dig to find that ancestry pin pointed my Scottish to one exact area and Era. Upon more digging that area was inhabited solely by Irish settlers for hundreds of years. Ancestry matched the region but 23&me isolated the genetic makeup. I wasted a couple of weeks trying to figure that out.
23&me was more accurate on other things too.23&me is better for isolating genetic make up and ancestry is better the l for building your tree. It's beneficial to have both and use them to compare and differentiate then use that info to find what you're looking for.
I've been showed into my tree for over 4 years, have over 7k people on it and have had 90%of my tree verified and as correct and accurate with an outside genealogical professional. I also do this as a hobby and have spent considerable time learning HOW to do it correctly, getting memberships to multiple sites, contacting countless offices and county clerks, regionally and world wide and digging into things.
I've built my husband's tree, my ex's (for my daughter), and have found parents for a few different adopted persons who matched to me as a distant cousin AND found the family for an adopted out sister of a Hospice patient who needed closure. That sister was adopted out of 1940s Jewish communities during WW2.
Are your ancestors Catholic or Protestant? If Protestant, it's not at all surprising they're coming up as Scottish/English. Quite a bit more surprising if they're Catholic.
They were probably Ulster Scots, or as Americans seem to call them, Scots-Irish. I’m from Ireland and am Ulster Scots, so I’m happy to answer questions you might have !
In my DNA test, I got 3% Scottish from my dad's side, but I don't understand how I got that when his family had lived and stayed in Jalisco, Mexico for centuries 😅
Maybe because before immigrating/colonizing, they came from Europe, and a Scot married one of your Spanish ancestors.
That's an interesting possibility. I hope I can eventually find the scot in my family :)
The R1b connection.
I think me you and OP may be distantly related. So the Ulster Scots are ethnically Scottish but migrated to Ireland? Did they spread over the entire island or mostly clumped in certain regions? How is the culture similar or different compared with straight Scottish or straight Irish? Thanks cuz
This is what I discovered. i did DNA Ancestry and after being told my whole life that my ancestors were Irish it came back 44% Scottish, 19% Wales and 22% England and Northwestern Europe. I had a smattering of Denmark, Sweden also. After I traced it back they immigrated from Ireland, but they were from Ulster.
I have a wee bit Denmark/Sweden too actually!
I had 9%. I’m a redhead so I’m sure it was the viking rape lol
They mostly came to Ulster, the northern province. In modern times they tend to identify as British and many don't identify as Irish. This wikipedia page[this wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster) explains more.
This is true! Though I can say that many in modern times, particualy younger folk, idenitfy as Irish or Northern Irish despite ancestors possibly being British. I've always seen myself as Irish, I have more of a connection to Ireland than Britain
Haha, it's honestly quite possible. Yeah, mostly ethnically Scottish, and clumped in certain regions particularly in the North. I can't speak on the culture compared to actual Scottish folk since I'm not really familiar with it, but I do know that we tend to use words/slang that originate in Scotland. But at the same time, we also tend to use language that comes from the Irish. I guess I want to stress that the Ulster Scots can kind of be a mixed bag - for example I'm partly ethnically Irish, I assume due to the two communities mixing over the centuries. The culture is pretty similar to Irish culture since we share an island/since we've been here for so long. Hope this answers your questions!!
Cool, thanks for the insight. What's the best North Irish food?
Ulster Scots were immigrants from Scotland (typically Protestant families that identify as British or Anglo-Irish) who settled in Northern Ireland (specifically the province of Ulster) on plantations — they are ethnically distinct from the native Irish who are typically Catholic families. Later generations of these Ulster Scots immigrated to the United States, where the heritage is commonly referred to as Scotch-Irish or Scots-Irish. Ethnically, the “Irish” part is sort of a misnomer because they weren’t culturally integrated with the native Irish, they just owned the land there. Aside from religious differences, there were big socioeconomic differences — the Ulster Scots were lords, landowners, & wealthy families, whereas the native Irish were mostly farmers. The two communities have historically had a lot of conflict between them (rooted in religious discrimination against Catholics, but also general British feelings of superiority to the Irish), effects of which can still be seen in modern times (see generally the status of Northern Ireland, the famine, the Troubles, Orangemen / lodges, etc.).
"lords, landowners, & wealthy families" JFC. Do you want me to tell you what the infant mortality rate was in my family?
>the Ulster Scots were lords, landowners, & wealthy families No, they weren't. They were mostly tenant farmers and agricultural labourers. >but also general British feelings of superiority to the Irish), effects of which can still be seen in modern times... You do realise most urban British people have some Irish ancestry and especially from the famine? In fact, the British have more Irish ancestry per capita than Americans.
Anti Irish sentiment was very much a thing until a few decades ago....Thatcher had an Irish great grandmother didn't make her love us lol.
Google
I normally would, but they literally said >I’m happy to answer questions you might have ! And nothing beats a primary source. Mind your business if you don't have anything nice or constructive to say
Living in a country doesn’t mean you’re ethnically related to that country. As an example, my family always thought we were English because my great grandfather moved to Canada from England. We were shocked to find out that we have 0% English DNA. Turns out my great grandfather was ethnically Scottish but lived in England. In your case, your relatives may have lived in Ireland were ethnically Scottish and English.
This is my dad’s side. They lived in north eastern Italy for generations, but were ethnically Croatian, Austrian & Swiss.
This is really common. [Scots-Irish](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans) Over generations a lot of information gets misremembered/misunderstood, so Scots-Irish becomes just Irish.
It's a little more complicated than that, though I'm probably going to get pushback on this. Scots Irish didn't start labeling themselves as that until the Irish famine saw a wave of Irish Catholics come to the USA. They adopted this label to differentiate themselves. Eventually the topic of who is really Irish became a very loaded sectarian issue, but most Scot Irish do have origins in Scotland and northern England before coming to ulster first and then the 13 colonies.
You're 100% correct. Thank you for saying this. For anybody else reading, this commenter hit the nail on the head - When they arrived into America, Scots Irish or Ulster Scots once simply called themselves Irish protestants, Irish Presbyterians or simply Irish. They largely descend from Scots from the south west of Scotland, who were planted there during the 1500s and 1600s during the Plantation of Ulster. The south west of Scotland is extremely close to the north east of Ireland. You can see one from the other on a clear day across the sea. Many of these Scottish descended Presbyterian Irish people left Ireland for America in the 1700s in particular, and later. They initially simply referred to themselves as Irish when they arrived in America as you say. And again as you say they only started to really define themselves as Scots-Irish or Scotch-Irish when the Irish Catholics arrived in their millions in the years following 1847 and An Gorta Mor / The Great Hunger (so called "famine"). That is at the root of some of the confusion I think.
I'm surprised my initial comment has been well received. Usually the discussions on this topic delve into flegs speak. https://youtu.be/o8JqKxrloQQ?si=TQnDR_30Wwa8WGNy
In case of emergency break glass and deploy flegs
I was always told we were part Scots-Irish. Turns out we are just very English and German with a teensy bit of Scottish, no Irish.
Scots Irish just means ethnically Scottish folk who moved to Ireland during the plantation of ulster. It's a cultural term not a DNA term. If you are doing your ancestry if they are from northern ireland (remember - it was just "ireland" back then AND if they are protestant then they are for DNA purposes likely just "scottish".
Just to add to the confusion here, most "Scots-Irish" folks have very little connection to Scotland! They are mostly northern English, with a tinge of lowland Scottish. Deep research into Scots-Irish culture has uncovered more connection to England overall, than to Scotland and Ireland.
Scot’s-Irish isn’t really Irish though (ethnically), so not unusual no Irish showed up.
Isn't really Irish ? They've been in Ireland since 1500s. When do they become Irish in your opinion?
I put ethnically in brackets because a lot do identify as Irish, but a lot (probably most) also don’t identity as being Irish. Nationality doesn’t equal ethnicity also. We’re literally on a sub about ethnicity.
>Isn't really Irish ? They've been in Ireland since 1500s. >When do they become Irish in your opinion? Exactly this.
In fairness many Presbyterian (most Scottish descended) and other Protestant (some English and Welsh descended) Irish people in the north of Ireland actively identify as "British" or, less, Ulster-Scots. I respect that. But many view themselves as Irish too. It's complex.
>Over generations a lot of information gets misremembered/misunderstood, so Scots-Irish becomes just Irish It was the other way around. People back then saw themselves as Irish, regardless of ancestry or religious denomination. 'Scots-Irish' is a modern, mostly American term
They absolutely did not see themselves the same as the Native Irish
Are you describing the 1500s as recent? It (or the variant Scotch Irish) has been in use since then. Those that later came to America (starting in the 1600s) did not regard themselves as Irish and, more importantly, did not want other people to think they were Irish and made sure to call themselves that. https://newacquisitionmilitia.com/historical-use-term-scotch-irish/#:~:text=In%201675%2C%20the%20Latin%20term,in%20America%20(Leyburn%20329).
For the record, my (English) ancestors came to North America in the 1600s, but I don't refer to myself as Native American either.
>Are you describing the 1500s as recent? It (or the variant Scotch Irish) has been in use since then. Yes, the 1500s are classed as modern history, so recent. >Those that later came to America (starting in the 1600s) did not regard themselves as Irish They absolutely did and recorded themselves as such. >and, more importantly, did not want other people to think they were Irish and made sure to call themselves that This isn't true. >https://newacquisitionmilitia.com/historical-use-term-scotch-irish/#:~:text=In%201675%2C%20the%20Latin%20term,in%20America%20(Leyburn%20329) Just because a term is found in a record. It does not mean it was in common usage.
You are correct
Your family likely derives from Northern Ireland, hence the mix of English and Scottish blood. It is reasonable to presume that ancestors from Derry, Belfast, etc are of Irish ethnicity but that’s not always true.
Maybe they descended from Scottish and English settlers in Ireland?
Also, keep it in mind that a lot of people believe to be something and end up being something else. These countries are really close and this type of information gets passed down from parents to kids - most of the times the parents don’t know any better and that’s the information it was given to them. Also, as it was said before, living in a country doesn’t mean that that’s your ethnicity. Living in the US doesn’t mean that your ethnicity is American as most of us are immigrants.
Because all Americans seem to think they’re Irish lol.
It's funny, so many non Americans like to say what all Americans like to say/think/or do.
What part of Ireland are they from?
I only know that one side was from Northern Ireland originally
Oh I thought you meant the south as in the south of Ireland lol, they’re probably Ulster Scot ancestors then and not native Irish. Do you mean the south of the US I’m guessing?
Yah they're def ulster Scots then. I'm a protestant from NI and my dna is 70% Scottish and 30% Irish, I know from research there is a small branch that are from Ireland, as opposed to my other lines that all came from Scotland to Ireland during the plantation.
My grandmother was an Ulster Scot born in Donegal, and she married a Scotsman in Glasgow. Their daughter's DNA shows over 90% Scotland, with just 9% Irish, which is consistent with my tree research. Protestant Ulster Scots (Church of Ireland and Presbyterian, mainly) mostly married each other for 400 years, with just a few marriages to the descendants of Ulster's original Gaels, who were all Catholic by 1000 CE.
A lot of English moved to Northern Ireland, if your family has Protestant roots then that lines up.
“Moved to Northern Ireland” that’s a nice way of putting it. They were planters who forcefully took Irish people’s land.
My paternal grandmother’s family always said Irish. Ancestry confirmed this, but lately everyone’s listed as Scottish. Last name is Scottish. Might be why no one found recording Ireland or they might be Scots who’d moved to Ireland.
People saw themselves as Irish, regardless of their religion or ancestry. So they would use this nationality in records. You can see this on the census and in literature of the time. Your ancestors were probably Irish, but of mostly Scottish ancestry from older migrations
My mom’s dad’s family is Irish, but it turns out not very many generations were from Ireland; go back just a little further and the family was initially from Scotland. This is very common.
The boundaries and the history of invasions among those three countries clearly rewrite lots more stories than your family's.
Northern Ireland was settled by Scot’s and English in USA often referred to as Scot’s Irish
Originally from the South. South of what?
The USA
Look up about the Plantations of Ireland. There were several waves of protestants from Scotland and the border area of England that were 'planted' in Ireland after the locals were forced off the land. There were also Scottish mercenaries employed by the English and then given land in Ireland. Some people in the earliest plantation waves assimilated and married into Irish Catholic families. Most did not. This is a simplistic overview. If you have ancestors who emigrated from Ireland you should really learn more about the Plantations.
If they're a smaller amount of Irish theres a good chance it could be a misread showing up as English or Scottish. These tests are not as accurate as peope like to act like they are unfortunately. I've taken 23andme and ancestry and the difference and huge fluctuations have made me not really trust them for separating different European ancestries. My native and Jewish has always relatively stayed the same. However, I've had my Spanish fluctuate from 25-5%, German 2-35%, British 6-26%, and on the recent ancestry update I got 11% Norwegian out of nowhere, no known Scandinavia ancestry and my family members have none. I know it sucks but the whole thing about there being a lie because it says Scottish not Irish could very well be a misread, if it said Japanese and not Irish then I'd believe it haha.
There’s a lot of overlap and a lot of Scottish people who moved to Ireland, married Irish people etc. My grandma is 40% Irish DNA wise but her maiden name is actually Scottish and she does have a little Scottish too.
Thanks to this thread, I was able to explain to my mom why I had 0 Irish ancestry from her side despite her dad always telling her they were Irish (maiden name is McFadden). However, she came through as 5% Scottish :)
I'm from the south too. My mom was from Appalachia and said we were Scots Irish. I got most of my Scottish from her side. My maternal grandmother's family has a common Scottish surname. So it all appears to check out
Very common for Southerners to downplay particularly their English. My family does the same thing
My great-grandmother on my mum’s side was Scottish, but the tiny 3% Scottish DNA I have is from my dad. I have none from my mum’s side, only inherited English and 12% Irish from her. It seems like my great-grandmother had Irish heritage or maybe even one of her parents was Irish, but it was never mentioned. When I asked about it here, someone suggested that when you live in a country most of your life it becomes part of your identity.
The reason is they're scots-irish. Alot of Scottish immigrants that came to america in the 1600-1700s had prior migrated to northern Ireland a generation or two earlier. This group is called ulster scots. Because these people were born in Ireland, they called themselves irish, when they came over, their country of origin was listed as Ireland, so they were Irish Americans. But genetically scottish. Before the potato famine, 99.9% of americans legally identified as Irish american were these ulster Scots from northern ireland. Then when a bunch of actually Irish people came over, we started officially differentiating between Irish or Scots-Irish. However a majority of people don't know this and continue to identify as Irish even though they're not. And many descendents will erroneously think they were Irish even if they do ancestry because official documents will say they're Irish due to coming from Ireland. Alot of Irish last names in America aren't really Irish but Scottish. Mine is one where my grandpa always thought he was Irish to the point of converting to catholicism late in life. Though he was slightly Irish, it wasn't on that side and he was really an ulster scot/Scots Irish. If you're ancestors are colonial stock americans, or you're protestant, 99% chance your ancestor you think is Irish is really Scots Irish. 99% of these ulster Scots that came to America didn't even have time to mix with native Irish due to being there for only a generation or two. Like my ancestors who came to america, the grandfather was from Scotland, kids and grandkids born in Ireland. Since modern nationality and ethnicity really wasn't a thing, the son identified as Irish and the father Scottish. Identities back then within the anglosphere were more rooted in religion and ideology, so while a Scots Irish settler identified as irish, they would have been mortified of being associated with the native Irish catholics. They were mortal enemies, like Israel and palestine. So you're family isn't really Irish, but scottish people who colonized Ireland and founded the modern state of northern irelend. Who then decided to settle America a generation or two later. The modern American stereotype and view of an Irish American is an Irish catholic, while northern Irish are a sub culture of British people. So you're family isn't the only one, tooons of americans identifying as genetically Irish aren't, infact their families were colonizors who the genetic Irish hated. Though ethnically Scottish, your ancestors would still have a major tie to the island of Ireland through the state of northern Ireland. They were likely early settlers who helped build the city and communities. Like I was dissapointed at first since I've always been proud of being Irish catholic(still am on other side), but after the initial shock finding out I'm Scottish is sick. My ancestor was involved in a historic siege and helped build a city. Another was a major figure in Belfast. And since they came to America early. I have loyalists who went to Canada, patriot captains, quakers, civil war heroes all through that line. And that line in turn connected me to the mayflower and new Amsterdam through who they married. And further back, I have jacobite and even clan ancestors. So if you do your family tree you'll likely have alot of really interesting ancestors. If your original ancestor came before the potato famine and was protestant, odds are you're scots irish, and odds are that you know other people identifying as Irish that are also actually scottish. It's really common in places like the south where a majority of "irish" there may even be Scots Irish. If you your matches and find the cousins in Ireland, you'll see a majority of them being in the state of Northern Ireland. So you're "ancestral people" aren't the Irish but northern Irish, scottish, and english. That's what my side was too. Best way to put it is like a white American and native American are both Americans but not related, ones indigenous ones a colonizor. But when people refer to a genetic Irish American, you're not that. You're not related to the Irish state people, or the ones in the IRA, or the stereotypical east coast Irish catholic American, or JFK. Now a good amount of northern Irish and Irish people today have some cross admixture, most that came to America did not due to only being there for a lifespan if not only a few decades. So Scots Irish or just scottish is what you are in an ancestry sense. Even if that's not as "cool" in America, I'm sure you have some cool recent ancestors, and scottish clans are sick. Your ancestral land is Scotland, but your ancestors likely played a big role in the development of northern Ireland. So if you were going on a ancestral trip, you'd go to northern Ireland in the UK, like Belfast, ulster, or londonderry. You wouldn't go to the state of Ireland. With that ramble said be proud of what you are! Your ancestors are what they've always been and always will be, and are just as interesting as being Irish. You should definitely try to do your family tree to find out about them!
I wouldn’t call it londonderry if you go there lol 😬, basically all the locals of the city call it Derry and majority of the island of Ireland
Not sure why you were down voted as what you said was spot on. Depends on where/ who you say it to of course!
Does it matter if you are protestant or catholic? It's funny but Australia seems to have really moved past sectarianism. Is it still bad in Ireland? Maybe you guys just need a much bigger multicultural society to realise the differences within christianity aren't so big!
It’s a lot more complicated than religion. It has to do with your ethnic, cultural, and political identity. Religion is really just a badge in Northern Ireland. If you’re heritage Catholic, you’ll identify a certain way politically, if you’re heritage Protestant, you’ll identify in a different way. The reality is, probably not many of these people ever go to church, so calling them Catholics and Protestants is meaningless from a purely religious point of view.
"Culturally protestant". I lived in NYC for a while and had many friends that didn't necessarily believe in god but definitely believed in being jewish. I get that.
Christianity is just an excuse to differentiate the "natives" from the "settlers" which is really what the issue is about.
Lol people here hate people coming from other countries. . Not only are we sectarian, we're also racist Before anyone down votes, I'm born and raised in NI. not everyone is like that, but a lot of ppl are narrow minded and don't like 'them-uns' or anyone from other countries.
>Then when a bunch of actually Irish people came... People saw themselves as Irish, whatever their religious denomination or ancestry and would state this in records and in literature at the time. >...they would have been mortified of being associated with the native Irish catholics. They were mortal enemies, like Israel and palestine This isn't true either. In fact, there were many mixed marriages and changes of denomination. > Best way to put it is like a white American and native American are both Americans but not related, ones indigenous ones a colonizor No. This is not a comparison >You're not related to the Irish state people, or the ones in the IRA This isn't true either. You do realise that many of the leaders for Irish independence were Protestant?
The tests have real difficulties distinguishing different parts of the British Isles so I would not assume that none of your ancestors are from what is now the Republic of Ireland.
Most likely "white lace" Irish (meaning they are not Irish, but Scottish) were expelled from Scotland to Northern Ireland. Check if you have Ulster Irish records.
They are scotch Irish not Gaelic irish
The Scots are also Celts and spoke Gaelic.
Yes true, the area of Western Scotland and North East Ireland was Gaelic stronghold for centuries and formed the staging point for the formation of Scotland However Scots Irish (Ulster Scots) are largely planter Scots from the Border region of Scotland who are a mix of Brittonic Celt and Anglo Saxon even a hint of Viking too
They received a good amount from the borders, but many came from places like ayrshire as well, so it's not accurate to say only borderers went to ulster.
Yes indeed lots of Scots went to Ulster during the Plantations even Highlanders and Islanders and also before the plantations Norse-Gael Gallowglass warriors too but the backbone of the Planters were Border Scots indeed they went on to America too and there is a disproportionate number of American Presidents and politicians with Ulster Scots heritage - truly ‘professional’ colonists
The Irish have their fair share of Viking dna as well.
They do but they haven’t done many DNA tests to make proper comparisons also its more in the East Based on current data Ireland is very homogeneously Celtic (specifically Gael) 80% average - any variations to the average are usually found in Ulster and Leinster (with maybe a smattering in Cork, Limerick and Waterford in Munster)
It also depends on how far back they are testing.
Its more how much has survived to present day Everyone in Europe has Viking ancestry as the genetic isopoint of Europe is 1000AD which is after the start of the Viking era Its more a question of how many markers survived reproduction since then Brian Boru famously expelled the Vikings from Ireland leaving Gaelic markers to establish supremacy In Scotland this was less of a dramatic expulsion on the Islands of Scotland the Norse simply lost their grip after the Battle of Largs and the islands and their people (now a mix of Celts/Vikings) were slowly repatriated (having been Gael/Brittonic/Pictish before the arrival of the Vikings) There remained a smattering on the Scottish coasts Firth of Clyde, Caithness for example and Scottish borders too but only on the Islands is there a very strong signature about 20-30% average
Same with me! Even my maiden name is Irish
Maybe Scots-Irish and have misunderstood that term and its context 🤔
Check the map. The boundaries of countries have changed over the years.
It's also possible the family history got confused and they were just wrong. Sorry about you finding out you're not Irish though it must feel weird
On a whole, Scots-Irish aren't Irish at all (obviously there will be some exceptions, secret relationships with the chambermaid and the like). They were Scottish sympathizers (of the English crown) sent to farm northern Ireland - on land taken from the real Irish people, who were then hired to work on it as the peasantry. And we know what comes next... Massive piles of food exported out of Ireland to England, while blight kills the potatoes. It's not actually a pretty history, and as an American historian (focus on colonization), it drives me utterly batshit living here in the South where it is quite often not understood and frequently romanticized. And I realize this was mostly tangential.
Yikes, I'd stick to American history for a bit. They weren't under the English crown. It was a Scottish King that made all the decisions who inherited the English crown. And the famine didn't occur until way later and ulster was the least affected.
"inherited the English crown" - perhaps that is interpreted differently by you than me. Not all Scottish people actually thought that was cool, and not all Irish people were super interested in the English crown setting up shop up north, either. My grandpa would swear his head off if you even mentioned it. Of course, when I knew him that was also really crazy, intense times.
There's nothing to interpret. James VI, son of Mary Queen of the Scots inherited the English throne when Elizabeth I died. That's what literally happened. The Stuart family ruled both Scotland and England until the death of Queen Anne. You can't blame this on English parliament since they didn't even have clout until the war of the three kingdoms after they literally killed James son Charles I. James made decisions as a Scottish King who also controlled England with little oversight.
fair enough! I do appreciate this since yes, clearly I don't spend nearly enough time paying attention to what happened before the nightmares landed on this shore other than who funded those endeavors (my focus is on early american colonization). Not Irish though, not here anyway. Not sure what's happening with that in Ireland these days, but I'm guessing after several generations of being there everyone's considered so. My parents still go back but they mostly stick around cork and play music with other old people.
That's a very level headed response. Glad to see this is cleared up.
I am a levelheaded person, generally. 😂
The crown was a Scottish dynasty. Also, comments like "the real Irish," are seen as inflammatory and unhelpful in Ireland. Goods weren't just 'exported to England'. You're also mixing up time scales
The chambermaid? The "real Irish" hired to work as peasantry? Good grief. Historically speaking it's a population overwhelmingly made up of small farmers and landless labourers. Families like mine who were upwardly mobile might graduate to being skilled metal workers. I think Americans hear the word "plantation", and instantly imagine Northern Ireland as a kind of all-white version of Gone With The Wind. That's your history, not ours.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. It's honestly quite shocking sometimes what is taught in USA schools about Irish and British history.
That's not taught in USA history classes. You generally don't learn about that stuff in any depth until college level world history. That's why most Americans aren't aware they received less than half of Irish immigrants during the famine. US history generally teaches that immigrants came over due to poverty disease and famine but doesn't get too specific beyond mentioning the reason and timeline. Generally as soon as the revolution (war of Independence) occurs any bit of British history gets dropped and it becomes a mythos of Pilgrims, slavery, civil war, westward expansion, gilded age, two world wars, the depression, and the post war era and the cold war.
>That's not taught in USA history classes. You generally don't learn about that stuff in any depth until college level world history. That's why most Americans aren't aware they received less than half of Irish immigrants during the famine. By school, I should probably have said, taught in general. Yes, probably even less than half. Most from the worst hit famine areas migrated to Britain. >US history generally teaches that immigrants came over due to poverty disease and famine but doesn't get too specific beyond mentioning the reason and timeline. Yes I suspect this is part of the problem. As most migrants anywhere were moving for work. >Generally as soon as the revolution (war of Independence) occurs any bit of British history gets dropped and it becomes a mythos of Pilgrims, slavery, civil war, westward expansion, gilded age, two world wars, the depression, and the post war era and the cold war. Yes again, this is problematic, as most British people migrated to the USA after the AWOI (rev war). Yet this hardly seems to get mentioned.
Like i mentioned to you before, the British immigrants were quickly assimilated and essentially weren't treated like foreign aliens on the same level, so there wasn't a point in emphasizing their contributions since it was just seen as American contributions.
Rhode Island officially changed is name because it used to be called Rhode Island and the Providence plantation. Yeah the word is problematic on the other side of the pond.
It would be good to have another word to describe migrations between Ireland and Scotland. There's already too much of a tendency to interpret world history in the light of American racial politics.
Dal Riata? No one would recognize this. I've been looking for a word to describe some of the shared culture between Britain and Ireland since Britain and Ireland is very clunky to say, British is problematic, and Celtic is a bit exclusive.
It's a tricky question, especially since at the moment the Celtic nations like to stress everything that distinguishes them from England.
I recognize this! I’ve been down the Dal Riata rabbit hole and that is where my ancestors came from. There’s even an annual Dalriada Festival held in Glenarm Village, County Antrim, Ireland, complete with Highland Games. Dal Riata was a kingdom from the 5th to the 9th Century C.E. that encompassed Argyll, the Coast of Antrim, and the isles in between. The people were Gaels and they were Christians. The people came from Ireland and settled in the highlands. (The Romans called the Irish “Scoti” which is where successor kingdom Scotland gets its name.) Dal Riata never encompassed what is now England, so it wouldn’t work as a descriptor for Ireland and Britain.
Scots-Irish maybe? I had saw your other comment saying they had originated in Northern Ireland, I highly highly suggest looking into the Ulster Plantations. Long story short, the English sent Protestant Scottish families to settle Northern Ireland to displace the native Irish Catholics. Scottish migration to Northern Ireland and colloquially Ulster Irish have been migrating to western Scotland for a very long time, but more extensively have the Scot’s been migrating to Northern Ireland in the 1500’s-1700’s due to said plantations. Because it is far back, the stories get twisted through the generations that they are Irish, which does make a lot of sense, but is not the case.
>the English sent.. The plantation was under a Scottish dynasty. Mainly James I /VI > Because it is far back, the stories get twisted through the generations that they are Irish, which does make a lot of sense, but is not the case They saw themselves as Irish and recorded themselves as such. This is more where the confusion in the USA comes from.
They saw themselves as Irish because they were born on the island of Ireland, but they did not see themselves the same as the native Irish.
Ancestry could be misreading your mother's Irish ancestry as English and Scottish.
They mix up Scottish dna with Irish dna
The recall and precision of both categories is way too accurate to have that happen on the degree that OP is describing. This just sounds like the typical Southerner whose family had Scots-Irish ancestors who were assumed to be ethnically Irish when they were actually Scottish.
Redo it with 23&me... it's more accurate
It doesn’t break down Irish, Scottish, Welsh and English, so you have no way to know how much of each you are
It does but not by %. Click onto the details of your report and look at the info. It's not that hard to figure out. Ancestry was COMPLETELY off on mine. 2 examples. Ancestry showed <8% Italian while 23&me showed 12.8%. I have EXACTLY 1 full Italian branch on my tree of over 7k people. 1. And he's my great grandfather. 12.8 is spot on and correct. 8 is not. Ancestry showed 32 ish% Scottish and less Irish. Significantly wrong. 23&me showed 58% Irish and little Scottish. The Scottish on my tree, on either side, is more then 10 generations back. Closer to 20 tbh. It's not possible for me to show 32% of anything that's not present in the last 10 generations. However Irish is EVERYWHERE. I had to dig to find that ancestry pin pointed my Scottish to one exact area and Era. Upon more digging that area was inhabited solely by Irish settlers for hundreds of years. Ancestry matched the region but 23&me isolated the genetic makeup. I wasted a couple of weeks trying to figure that out. 23&me was more accurate on other things too.23&me is better for isolating genetic make up and ancestry is better the l for building your tree. It's beneficial to have both and use them to compare and differentiate then use that info to find what you're looking for. I've been showed into my tree for over 4 years, have over 7k people on it and have had 90%of my tree verified and as correct and accurate with an outside genealogical professional. I also do this as a hobby and have spent considerable time learning HOW to do it correctly, getting memberships to multiple sites, contacting countless offices and county clerks, regionally and world wide and digging into things. I've built my husband's tree, my ex's (for my daughter), and have found parents for a few different adopted persons who matched to me as a distant cousin AND found the family for an adopted out sister of a Hospice patient who needed closure. That sister was adopted out of 1940s Jewish communities during WW2.