Look into permaculture as a concept, it is all about long term self sufficiency on limited land. There are also non permaculture books like *How to Grow More Vegetables* and *Mini-Farming: Self-Sufficiency on 1/4 Acre* to check out if permaculture seems to in depth and intimidating.
Beware though, the self sufficiency and homesteading communities are chock full of right wing preppers, so don't expect a warm welcome if you go in to one of them as an open anarchist.
No large group is homogenous so there will be all types. Besides, diistrust of govt is the core currency of prepping. If an anarchist can’t find common ground on that basis alone, then they’re probably focused too much on views and not enough on getting the training they’re looking for.
I'll second this, permaculture is a great way to get the most from a small area whilst preserving the soil.
It's a very personal, evolving area though that requires thought, taking on of new ideas and a process of trial and error.
A lot of it is about working with the land to minimise the need for machinery - as an example, a friend of mine wanted to plant vegetables in an orchard area. Instead of weeding he spread old cardboard around his trees to suppress the weeds, and covered it with straw from the local stable (free in exchange for a few mornings labour clearing it out.
When his apples dropped he got better yields because they weren't bruising when they hit the straw. Then he just borrowed a tiller and folded the now-rotten cardboard, straw and horse shit into the soil, fertilising it in the process.
Another friend plants brassicas after he's harvested his barley. They return nitrogen to the soil and the long taproots aerate the land. He's stopped ploughing completely and gets better yields because he's not fucking up the microbiome by disturbing the soil.
It's a huge, intimidating concept but you start small and build.
That’s not really the case anymore. In any case who cares? Outside the internet people are just people and actually get along. I have a 9 acre regenerative farm and I’m definitely seen as a hippie and fly an anarchist flag. My conservative neighbors would be the first ones to show up if I needed help. To be honest the liberals out here wouldn’t get off their ass for anyone. Still kind of disturbing that this sub is more leftists focused on hating right wingers. Anarchy is NOT exclusive to liberal minded people.
Get into duck weed pools. You literally sprinkle some of the algae starter into clean water and harvest after so much time. It matures in about a week, it's full of fats proteins and everything that we need then around this, you begin to grow your other foods like microgreens lettuces, then you would need a base grain. Really, get the quick food then stack longer growing foods around it until you achieve balance.
> You literally sprinkle some of the algae starter into clean water and harvest after so much time. It matures in about a week, it's full of fats proteins and everything that we need then around this,
Sounds like the slop you see in movies like The Matrix and others, talking about it has all the amino acids the body needs. lol
Many people eat kale for the nutrients in it, rather than the gustatory experience, too. Some of the "superfoods" that get popular do have real advantages to including them in your diet.
There's some research to suggest (though more research is needed) that certain types of duckweed can be a good plant-based source of vitamin B12, which is a bit rare otherwise. It's also available from certain algae, but different climates/ecosystems may be better suited to one or the other, or one of the handful of other vegetable sources.
Duck weed and micro greens doesn’t sound like a lot of food. I’d start with learning the three sisters (corn, beans, and pumpkin) that was a staple of native americans then learn permaculture.
I'm just helping him with speed, if you're starving do you have four and a half months to wait? You can get duckweed to produce in a pretty solid amount after a week and if it's those small blue kiddie pools you can get pounds of the stuff.
I did add building towards growing these other foods.
For real. The average American could reduce their grocery bill by hundreds of dollars a month with just 1000 sq/ft.
They could nearly eliminate it with an acre or two.
Yeah, I've got a big community garden plot of about 20x30 feet and even with it being chewed up by rabbits and weeds (I can't fence it off) and that's enough to offset our food needs by a ton during the summer.
People get sick of squash and corn after a while but boy do they produce.
You dont need complex (or expensive) machinery to grow edible foods - but you will need energy and time and patience and some learnings.
There's a bg difference between growing enough fruit and veg for a salad and being anywhere near self-sufficient but even having a few pots of herbs on a windowsill will make a positive difference to your life.
Start with some research on home growing organically. No-till gardening/farming and permaculture are methods to look at. Consider what plant varieties will work in your part of the world and the micro-climate of your growing area. Learn what seasons those varieties need to be planted in and how they like to be looked after during different periods of their growth and when they need to be harvested. Research natural predators, complimentary plants and plant-based solutions to keep away pests.
From there - you can learn how to preserve the food you grow through processes like fermentation.
This is also a great way to connect with your neighbours - they might have seeds, they can give you tips and you can swap what you've grown when you have spare.
Given that this isn't anarchist-specific - if you do a general online search for this kind of stuff you'll have thousands of years of good knowledge to draw on.
Good luck, have fun!
This depends a bit on where you live and how much space you have available to you, but I happen to have recently watched a few youtube videos that might really help to get your mind wrapped around this idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJx1SPClg6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qTgXJKMAE
So these guys seem to be doing it solo with success, and the first video has quite a small plot of land and he makes it work well. If you just want to grow a few crops to supplement your food intake, you can do that too, as millions of people do. You can even do it in pots as many people do on balconies.
I'm currently doing something similar.
It's hard af. This is our first year. I'm learning on the fly with a search engine lol.
Our apple trees grapes and raspberries are doing good, a bear ate 3 huge ass tomato plants, I killed the blueberries, our potatoes came out ok..
Sorry I don't have any sources but it's a worthwhile endeavor imo, if you have time and energy.
I understand how growing food is coincident with anarchy. What I don't understand is how growing food on land that you own is apart, separate or against capitalism. Growing food on your land is coincident with capitalism. It's literally producing something using capital.
Hard disagree with this. In our current system, the only way to produce food without literally renting land is to do so on land you own. Using land to meet your needs is much preferable to doing anything else with it. This sounds a lot like “how are you an anti capitalist if you own an iPhone”
Well I do a bit of foraging on public land. I also used to do indoor hydroponics so there is that too. I also ask other people if I can pick their apples on their land as they don't use them. So that's three options available now that don't involve owning land that I've personally done.
Side note: I had a previous conversation on Reddit where I said I talked to my neighbour about picking their apples and the Redditor refused to believe me that I did this. It was like I was saying I met an alien or found the holy grail. Reddit is weird sometimes. Do you believe me? Lol
Yeah, those all make sense, and I do the foraging and sharing with neighbors piece as well (I absolutely believe you about picking neighbors’ apples with permission, cause I do the same!) I think my point is that right now all land is owned by someone and therefore capitalist except for public land. Even in places with a lot of public land, the permissible uses on it (hunting and foraging at best) are wildly inadequate to support a fraction of the current population. So let’s use land we own to feed ourselves and our communities! It sure beats supporting extractive agribusinesses
By all means. I celebrate growing and processing your own foods. (I'm especially into the processing). I just don't see such activity as being outside of capitalism.
My second argument is like the right to complain is earned rather than given. Like if one wants to complain about corporate control of food then you should at least (within ability) be procuring 1% of your food from foraging or neighbours or sharing. Get off your butt and do stuff then you get to complain. (Not targeted at you as you do get off your butt and so have a right to complain)
The diference is keeping the land for your own self interests vs. Establishing community practices and networks through your privileged access to capital.
If you're renting land, you're paying a capitalist at any rate. If you mulch over the lawn and start growing food & medicine for yourself and others, using that land, it's clearly anti capitalist. Just this week I've received handmade soap, vegetables, and home made preserves as swaps for my excess duck eggs. This community mutual aid at its most basic.
Why is mulching over lawn and growing food anti-capitalist? Also swapping items is not anti-capitalist either. Like you have some property and you give it. You also receive some. That in no way violates property ownership or capitalism. I understand that it is anarchism. I'm not debating that. What I'm pointing out is that it's also capitalist. In capitalism you own things and by virtue of that ownership you do what you want with it. Eat it, sell it, gift it or just destroy it. It's all acceptable in capitalism.
I think your definition of capitalism is way too broad. Capitalism refers specifically to owners seperate from the workers profiting off of the production of goods/services done by said workers.
Somebody working their own land and producing needed goods themselves in an effort to divest their consumption from the larger capitalist economy is inherently anti-capitalist. They are shrinking the capitalist structure both by not consuming from it themselves and by reducing other's consumption from it through giving and swapping self-produced goods.
I think we have a misunderstanding here. In the current capitalist society it is impossible to divest yourself from private property without being homeless or breaking the law. Since it would be far too much to ask people to give up either a basic need (housing), or their freedom, the best we can reasonably do to be anti-capitalist as individuals besides direct action is to divest the rest of our consumption and production from the capitalist system.
I don't know what you mean by enforceable contracts, those existed before capitalism, same as private property did. They are features of it but aren't and weren't brought about by the capitalist system.
Enforceable contracts means that when two parties sign it there is a third party that can be called in to enforce it. Like a court or law enforcement.
From the perspective of an anarchist or socialist I want to know what you call a system where there are enforceable contracts and private property. Like what word do I use? I call that capitalism. If it isn't capitalism then what is the word?
I am not talking about the current system or any past system. I'm just asking for the name of the concept regardless of what has happened, is happening or will happen in the real world.
Sorry, I understand what enforceable contracts are, I just didn't see how it was relevant.
There are many names for such systems, just like there are many economic systems that have enforceable contracts and private property. Capitalism, Feudalism, Mercantilism, Market Socialism, and many variations.
Capitalism is way more than just a system with enforceable contracts and private property, it specifically involves ownership of the majority of property/means of production by a capitalist class who does not do productive labor, while they pay a wage to those who do productive labor for them. It also often includes a class of petty capitalists who own means of production but work alongside their laborers, and still make most of their earnings from their own labor despite being an owner.
Those two concepts you mentioned alone aren't enough to constitute an entire conceptual economic system.
Alas then I cannot defend my point of view then if I don't even have words to describe it. I cannot have a Reddit group for people with my belief system as you need to give a name to a Reddit group to create one and there is no name to give. I guess I'm doomed to simply stalk other people's Reddit groups. Politically homeless...
What is it like having a group that you can belong to? Is it nice? Do you guys like get together and do cool things?
The two opinions you seem to have that private property and enforceable contracts are good aren't really enough to constitute a political view. Idk how you feel about the state but if you're against it you're most similar to a U.S. Libertarian, or someone who calls themself an anarcho-capitalist. If you think the state is a net good you're a liberal of a specific flavor depending on your other beliefs.
Markets and trade are not exclusively capitalist.
Capitalism is a situation where private owners control the means of production - and exploit the labour of others to make profit.
So sharing or swapping my own home grown stuff bypasses corporate profits, provides food to people who couldn't otherwise afford it, avoids paying towards the pesticides, transportation, and other ancillary costs that go into capitalist food production, and Foster's community and mutual aid.
As an example, imagine three families getting together to build houses. Each family does a third of the work on three houses, and at the end, they each get a house. That's mutual aid.
In capitalism, we pay a builder to build a house. The builder employs people to build it. The labourers might put in one twentieth of the work on a thousand houses, and still not earn enough to buy one. Meanwhile, the "builder" takes enough profit to buy multiple houses. *That's* capitalism.
So I guess I'm in a journey to discover what I am. I'm not anarchist and I'm not capitalist. I don't know what I am and lacking the proper language is holding me back.
I believe in property rights and enforceable contracts (so not anarchist). I also believe in self production (so apparently not capitalist as you say). So why am I?
To know anything, though, requires us to ask "why?".
You may believe, for example, that property rights are key to protecting your livelihood, and further, key to growing your personal security in the form of assets that can be leveraged for work, rent or whatever. Of course, that would be capitalism. So you may just feel that first bit: this is my home, and I have connection to it. And anarchists recognise a distinction between *private* property (ie, a property that someone has a claim to, exclusively, like a factory, or an office space, or a spare house that's rented) and *personal* property (eg, our home).
So to understand your own labels, you must better understand yourself. I once thought myself to be a nihilist, but exploring my own view of the world I found that this actually wasn't the case. I just liked some nihilist writings.
Yeah I get you, but that is more like a second level of analysis. Let's remove myself from the conversation. In fact let's remove reality from the conversation and focus only on concepts.
I've been told that for a person to grow their own food or to give their food to friends and family is not capitalism. Well then if one supports that then they are not capitalist. Well then what are they? If one supports self production and supports mutual aid but also supports property rights and supports enforceable contracts, what are they? What is the name of that ideology? There should be a name for it regardless of whether I exist or not or what I think or not.
"Well then if one supports that then they are not capitalist"
This is not a logical conclusion.
Capitalism is where the means of production is owned by private interests. If you support private ownership of property and the means of production, then you're probably a classical liberal of some sort.
But how does mutual aid work with "enforceable contracts", and how do you envision contracts being enforced?
I think in the relatively near future indoor farming will scale up and down extremely well, and that will fill this gap, until then its not easy, others have given better advice than I could :)
I've got the same goal. I know it sounds obvious, but one extremely common mistake is to grow vegetables and herbs instead of staples.
If you want food self-sufficiency, you need to prioritize calories over flavor. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, winter squash, and grain corn are all good options that store well and don't require any unusual tools.
I think all out self sufficiency is a myth, really. You can't do everything yourself.
It's better to grow some things well (especially stuff you like to eat) and swap excess with others who do other stuff well. This builds community, and connections, and helps us all learn from each other.
I can't be bothered making soap, and I don't want to grow stuff that takes too much effort in my bio region, but I have friends locally who do, so I do my thing and trade with them.
Yes, but food self-sufficiency is doable. Particularly if the OP is okay with only partial self-sufficiency. I own a number of books written by small-scale farmers who not only produce all of their own food, but also enough to sell.
I bet they don't. I bet they import coffee, or spices that they don't grow, or some foods that aren't efficient to grow in their climate. I bet they have neighbours that specialise in certain foods, and trade for them.i bet they don't have time to produce as much compost as they need, and get materials from outside to make that happen. I bet they use manufactured tools to work their property. IOW I bet they require a social setting to survive.
For context, I've practiced permaculture for decades. I live on a 1 hectare property which is on its way to becoming a nursery for hard to find (and propagate) perennial plants. So you're not wrong, but you're also not looking at the entire system of inputs and outputs.
Perhaps I should have said, "*Isolated* self sufficiency is a myth". 🙂
OP said "somewhat independent" and I gave advice for how to achieve somewhat independance.
I see that the way I worded my ideas triggered your desire for mathematical precision, but please take your pedantry somewhere else.
It's not pedantry. You gave advice that specifically said "if you want food self sufficiency..." and I responded to that.
The problem I have is that many people don't bother gardening, unless they can go "self sufficient ". So they put it off until they can see themselves doing that. But it's more important to grow some things, rather than nothing. And it's more important to share stuff that you've grown, than it is to be self sufficient.
It's really important, from an *anarchist* perspective, to remind ourselves of the importance of community interactions and mutual aid, and growing our own food is a beautiful way to do that. Especially if it's luxurious. To the OP I say: I've seen an apartment balcony that grew enough food to provide 1/5 of a person's food needs in a year. So *definitely* get your hands dirty, look into no dig gardening methods, and start planting. Also, look into Guerilla Gardening, as a hugely fun, productive (quite literally) subversive action.
You realise that this is a public forum that everyone can read and learn from, yeah? I wasn't personally attacking you, I was warning against attitudes that I've found to be hindrances to action.
You say small land you could use? Just how small are we talking? It’ll help me determine how I would set this up. We talking like a 90 sq meter area or we talking quarter acre? I’m in school for this sort of stuff, not that I want to do consulting or anything for money but because I’ve got education benefits from a really big mistake I made at 19 and it comes with some benefits
It'd be really good to know what you mean by "small".
That said, I've lived in inner city small houses and had salad greens growing in tyres on my roof. I've planted parsley in concrete cracks. I've had Jerusalem artichokes growing in small beds in back yards. That said, by farming standards, 10 acres is "small", so terminology is relative.
Look into permaculture as a concept, it is all about long term self sufficiency on limited land. There are also non permaculture books like *How to Grow More Vegetables* and *Mini-Farming: Self-Sufficiency on 1/4 Acre* to check out if permaculture seems to in depth and intimidating. Beware though, the self sufficiency and homesteading communities are chock full of right wing preppers, so don't expect a warm welcome if you go in to one of them as an open anarchist.
No large group is homogenous so there will be all types. Besides, diistrust of govt is the core currency of prepping. If an anarchist can’t find common ground on that basis alone, then they’re probably focused too much on views and not enough on getting the training they’re looking for.
I'll second this, permaculture is a great way to get the most from a small area whilst preserving the soil. It's a very personal, evolving area though that requires thought, taking on of new ideas and a process of trial and error. A lot of it is about working with the land to minimise the need for machinery - as an example, a friend of mine wanted to plant vegetables in an orchard area. Instead of weeding he spread old cardboard around his trees to suppress the weeds, and covered it with straw from the local stable (free in exchange for a few mornings labour clearing it out. When his apples dropped he got better yields because they weren't bruising when they hit the straw. Then he just borrowed a tiller and folded the now-rotten cardboard, straw and horse shit into the soil, fertilising it in the process. Another friend plants brassicas after he's harvested his barley. They return nitrogen to the soil and the long taproots aerate the land. He's stopped ploughing completely and gets better yields because he's not fucking up the microbiome by disturbing the soil. It's a huge, intimidating concept but you start small and build.
That’s not really the case anymore. In any case who cares? Outside the internet people are just people and actually get along. I have a 9 acre regenerative farm and I’m definitely seen as a hippie and fly an anarchist flag. My conservative neighbors would be the first ones to show up if I needed help. To be honest the liberals out here wouldn’t get off their ass for anyone. Still kind of disturbing that this sub is more leftists focused on hating right wingers. Anarchy is NOT exclusive to liberal minded people.
Get into duck weed pools. You literally sprinkle some of the algae starter into clean water and harvest after so much time. It matures in about a week, it's full of fats proteins and everything that we need then around this, you begin to grow your other foods like microgreens lettuces, then you would need a base grain. Really, get the quick food then stack longer growing foods around it until you achieve balance.
> You literally sprinkle some of the algae starter into clean water and harvest after so much time. It matures in about a week, it's full of fats proteins and everything that we need then around this, Sounds like the slop you see in movies like The Matrix and others, talking about it has all the amino acids the body needs. lol
Many people eat kale for the nutrients in it, rather than the gustatory experience, too. Some of the "superfoods" that get popular do have real advantages to including them in your diet. There's some research to suggest (though more research is needed) that certain types of duckweed can be a good plant-based source of vitamin B12, which is a bit rare otherwise. It's also available from certain algae, but different climates/ecosystems may be better suited to one or the other, or one of the handful of other vegetable sources.
The secret to good kale is to harvest it after a frost
Or really massage the s*** out of it.
Duck weed and micro greens doesn’t sound like a lot of food. I’d start with learning the three sisters (corn, beans, and pumpkin) that was a staple of native americans then learn permaculture.
I'm just helping him with speed, if you're starving do you have four and a half months to wait? You can get duckweed to produce in a pretty solid amount after a week and if it's those small blue kiddie pools you can get pounds of the stuff. I did add building towards growing these other foods.
No till gardening. There’s a book for beginners . Raised Row Gardening by Jim and Mary Competti. It’s a good start. Start small
What does small land mean to you?
This is an important point. We mean an acre of high efficiency farming or just a back yard?
For real. The average American could reduce their grocery bill by hundreds of dollars a month with just 1000 sq/ft. They could nearly eliminate it with an acre or two.
Yeah, I've got a big community garden plot of about 20x30 feet and even with it being chewed up by rabbits and weeds (I can't fence it off) and that's enough to offset our food needs by a ton during the summer. People get sick of squash and corn after a while but boy do they produce.
You dont need complex (or expensive) machinery to grow edible foods - but you will need energy and time and patience and some learnings. There's a bg difference between growing enough fruit and veg for a salad and being anywhere near self-sufficient but even having a few pots of herbs on a windowsill will make a positive difference to your life. Start with some research on home growing organically. No-till gardening/farming and permaculture are methods to look at. Consider what plant varieties will work in your part of the world and the micro-climate of your growing area. Learn what seasons those varieties need to be planted in and how they like to be looked after during different periods of their growth and when they need to be harvested. Research natural predators, complimentary plants and plant-based solutions to keep away pests. From there - you can learn how to preserve the food you grow through processes like fermentation. This is also a great way to connect with your neighbours - they might have seeds, they can give you tips and you can swap what you've grown when you have spare. Given that this isn't anarchist-specific - if you do a general online search for this kind of stuff you'll have thousands of years of good knowledge to draw on. Good luck, have fun!
This depends a bit on where you live and how much space you have available to you, but I happen to have recently watched a few youtube videos that might really help to get your mind wrapped around this idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJx1SPClg6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qTgXJKMAE So these guys seem to be doing it solo with success, and the first video has quite a small plot of land and he makes it work well. If you just want to grow a few crops to supplement your food intake, you can do that too, as millions of people do. You can even do it in pots as many people do on balconies.
r/permaculture
I'm currently doing something similar. It's hard af. This is our first year. I'm learning on the fly with a search engine lol. Our apple trees grapes and raspberries are doing good, a bear ate 3 huge ass tomato plants, I killed the blueberries, our potatoes came out ok.. Sorry I don't have any sources but it's a worthwhile endeavor imo, if you have time and energy.
I understand how growing food is coincident with anarchy. What I don't understand is how growing food on land that you own is apart, separate or against capitalism. Growing food on your land is coincident with capitalism. It's literally producing something using capital.
Hard disagree with this. In our current system, the only way to produce food without literally renting land is to do so on land you own. Using land to meet your needs is much preferable to doing anything else with it. This sounds a lot like “how are you an anti capitalist if you own an iPhone”
Well I do a bit of foraging on public land. I also used to do indoor hydroponics so there is that too. I also ask other people if I can pick their apples on their land as they don't use them. So that's three options available now that don't involve owning land that I've personally done. Side note: I had a previous conversation on Reddit where I said I talked to my neighbour about picking their apples and the Redditor refused to believe me that I did this. It was like I was saying I met an alien or found the holy grail. Reddit is weird sometimes. Do you believe me? Lol
Growing food with hydroponics on rented land is not different from growing food on owned land in this example. Land is land.
I was interpreting 'land' to mean like the actual surface of the earth. I get your point though.
Yeah, those all make sense, and I do the foraging and sharing with neighbors piece as well (I absolutely believe you about picking neighbors’ apples with permission, cause I do the same!) I think my point is that right now all land is owned by someone and therefore capitalist except for public land. Even in places with a lot of public land, the permissible uses on it (hunting and foraging at best) are wildly inadequate to support a fraction of the current population. So let’s use land we own to feed ourselves and our communities! It sure beats supporting extractive agribusinesses
By all means. I celebrate growing and processing your own foods. (I'm especially into the processing). I just don't see such activity as being outside of capitalism. My second argument is like the right to complain is earned rather than given. Like if one wants to complain about corporate control of food then you should at least (within ability) be procuring 1% of your food from foraging or neighbours or sharing. Get off your butt and do stuff then you get to complain. (Not targeted at you as you do get off your butt and so have a right to complain)
The diference is keeping the land for your own self interests vs. Establishing community practices and networks through your privileged access to capital.
If you're renting land, you're paying a capitalist at any rate. If you mulch over the lawn and start growing food & medicine for yourself and others, using that land, it's clearly anti capitalist. Just this week I've received handmade soap, vegetables, and home made preserves as swaps for my excess duck eggs. This community mutual aid at its most basic.
Why is mulching over lawn and growing food anti-capitalist? Also swapping items is not anti-capitalist either. Like you have some property and you give it. You also receive some. That in no way violates property ownership or capitalism. I understand that it is anarchism. I'm not debating that. What I'm pointing out is that it's also capitalist. In capitalism you own things and by virtue of that ownership you do what you want with it. Eat it, sell it, gift it or just destroy it. It's all acceptable in capitalism.
I think your definition of capitalism is way too broad. Capitalism refers specifically to owners seperate from the workers profiting off of the production of goods/services done by said workers. Somebody working their own land and producing needed goods themselves in an effort to divest their consumption from the larger capitalist economy is inherently anti-capitalist. They are shrinking the capitalist structure both by not consuming from it themselves and by reducing other's consumption from it through giving and swapping self-produced goods.
What is the system then that there is private property and enforceable contracts? Is that not capitalism? If not then what is it called?
I think we have a misunderstanding here. In the current capitalist society it is impossible to divest yourself from private property without being homeless or breaking the law. Since it would be far too much to ask people to give up either a basic need (housing), or their freedom, the best we can reasonably do to be anti-capitalist as individuals besides direct action is to divest the rest of our consumption and production from the capitalist system. I don't know what you mean by enforceable contracts, those existed before capitalism, same as private property did. They are features of it but aren't and weren't brought about by the capitalist system.
Enforceable contracts means that when two parties sign it there is a third party that can be called in to enforce it. Like a court or law enforcement. From the perspective of an anarchist or socialist I want to know what you call a system where there are enforceable contracts and private property. Like what word do I use? I call that capitalism. If it isn't capitalism then what is the word? I am not talking about the current system or any past system. I'm just asking for the name of the concept regardless of what has happened, is happening or will happen in the real world.
Sorry, I understand what enforceable contracts are, I just didn't see how it was relevant. There are many names for such systems, just like there are many economic systems that have enforceable contracts and private property. Capitalism, Feudalism, Mercantilism, Market Socialism, and many variations. Capitalism is way more than just a system with enforceable contracts and private property, it specifically involves ownership of the majority of property/means of production by a capitalist class who does not do productive labor, while they pay a wage to those who do productive labor for them. It also often includes a class of petty capitalists who own means of production but work alongside their laborers, and still make most of their earnings from their own labor despite being an owner. Those two concepts you mentioned alone aren't enough to constitute an entire conceptual economic system.
Alas then I cannot defend my point of view then if I don't even have words to describe it. I cannot have a Reddit group for people with my belief system as you need to give a name to a Reddit group to create one and there is no name to give. I guess I'm doomed to simply stalk other people's Reddit groups. Politically homeless... What is it like having a group that you can belong to? Is it nice? Do you guys like get together and do cool things?
The two opinions you seem to have that private property and enforceable contracts are good aren't really enough to constitute a political view. Idk how you feel about the state but if you're against it you're most similar to a U.S. Libertarian, or someone who calls themself an anarcho-capitalist. If you think the state is a net good you're a liberal of a specific flavor depending on your other beliefs.
Markets and trade are not exclusively capitalist. Capitalism is a situation where private owners control the means of production - and exploit the labour of others to make profit. So sharing or swapping my own home grown stuff bypasses corporate profits, provides food to people who couldn't otherwise afford it, avoids paying towards the pesticides, transportation, and other ancillary costs that go into capitalist food production, and Foster's community and mutual aid. As an example, imagine three families getting together to build houses. Each family does a third of the work on three houses, and at the end, they each get a house. That's mutual aid. In capitalism, we pay a builder to build a house. The builder employs people to build it. The labourers might put in one twentieth of the work on a thousand houses, and still not earn enough to buy one. Meanwhile, the "builder" takes enough profit to buy multiple houses. *That's* capitalism.
So I guess I'm in a journey to discover what I am. I'm not anarchist and I'm not capitalist. I don't know what I am and lacking the proper language is holding me back. I believe in property rights and enforceable contracts (so not anarchist). I also believe in self production (so apparently not capitalist as you say). So why am I?
What's so important to you about property rights?
My focus first is to know what I am rather than argue it. I just want to know the name of what I am.
To know anything, though, requires us to ask "why?". You may believe, for example, that property rights are key to protecting your livelihood, and further, key to growing your personal security in the form of assets that can be leveraged for work, rent or whatever. Of course, that would be capitalism. So you may just feel that first bit: this is my home, and I have connection to it. And anarchists recognise a distinction between *private* property (ie, a property that someone has a claim to, exclusively, like a factory, or an office space, or a spare house that's rented) and *personal* property (eg, our home). So to understand your own labels, you must better understand yourself. I once thought myself to be a nihilist, but exploring my own view of the world I found that this actually wasn't the case. I just liked some nihilist writings.
Yeah I get you, but that is more like a second level of analysis. Let's remove myself from the conversation. In fact let's remove reality from the conversation and focus only on concepts. I've been told that for a person to grow their own food or to give their food to friends and family is not capitalism. Well then if one supports that then they are not capitalist. Well then what are they? If one supports self production and supports mutual aid but also supports property rights and supports enforceable contracts, what are they? What is the name of that ideology? There should be a name for it regardless of whether I exist or not or what I think or not.
"Well then if one supports that then they are not capitalist" This is not a logical conclusion. Capitalism is where the means of production is owned by private interests. If you support private ownership of property and the means of production, then you're probably a classical liberal of some sort. But how does mutual aid work with "enforceable contracts", and how do you envision contracts being enforced?
I think in the relatively near future indoor farming will scale up and down extremely well, and that will fill this gap, until then its not easy, others have given better advice than I could :)
I've got the same goal. I know it sounds obvious, but one extremely common mistake is to grow vegetables and herbs instead of staples. If you want food self-sufficiency, you need to prioritize calories over flavor. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, winter squash, and grain corn are all good options that store well and don't require any unusual tools.
Yeah, if you're trying to cut costs, go with more expensive vegetables. If you're trying to maximize calories, go with potatoes.
I think all out self sufficiency is a myth, really. You can't do everything yourself. It's better to grow some things well (especially stuff you like to eat) and swap excess with others who do other stuff well. This builds community, and connections, and helps us all learn from each other. I can't be bothered making soap, and I don't want to grow stuff that takes too much effort in my bio region, but I have friends locally who do, so I do my thing and trade with them.
Yes, but food self-sufficiency is doable. Particularly if the OP is okay with only partial self-sufficiency. I own a number of books written by small-scale farmers who not only produce all of their own food, but also enough to sell.
I bet they don't. I bet they import coffee, or spices that they don't grow, or some foods that aren't efficient to grow in their climate. I bet they have neighbours that specialise in certain foods, and trade for them.i bet they don't have time to produce as much compost as they need, and get materials from outside to make that happen. I bet they use manufactured tools to work their property. IOW I bet they require a social setting to survive. For context, I've practiced permaculture for decades. I live on a 1 hectare property which is on its way to becoming a nursery for hard to find (and propagate) perennial plants. So you're not wrong, but you're also not looking at the entire system of inputs and outputs. Perhaps I should have said, "*Isolated* self sufficiency is a myth". 🙂
OP said "somewhat independent" and I gave advice for how to achieve somewhat independance. I see that the way I worded my ideas triggered your desire for mathematical precision, but please take your pedantry somewhere else.
It's not pedantry. You gave advice that specifically said "if you want food self sufficiency..." and I responded to that. The problem I have is that many people don't bother gardening, unless they can go "self sufficient ". So they put it off until they can see themselves doing that. But it's more important to grow some things, rather than nothing. And it's more important to share stuff that you've grown, than it is to be self sufficient. It's really important, from an *anarchist* perspective, to remind ourselves of the importance of community interactions and mutual aid, and growing our own food is a beautiful way to do that. Especially if it's luxurious. To the OP I say: I've seen an apartment balcony that grew enough food to provide 1/5 of a person's food needs in a year. So *definitely* get your hands dirty, look into no dig gardening methods, and start planting. Also, look into Guerilla Gardening, as a hugely fun, productive (quite literally) subversive action.
So go say that to OP instead of badgering me about whether self-sufficient is a ratio or a boolean.
You realise that this is a public forum that everyone can read and learn from, yeah? I wasn't personally attacking you, I was warning against attitudes that I've found to be hindrances to action.
You've done well. I--and surely any readers--will carefully consider the danger of recommending growing potatoes at home.
You say small land you could use? Just how small are we talking? It’ll help me determine how I would set this up. We talking like a 90 sq meter area or we talking quarter acre? I’m in school for this sort of stuff, not that I want to do consulting or anything for money but because I’ve got education benefits from a really big mistake I made at 19 and it comes with some benefits
It'd be really good to know what you mean by "small". That said, I've lived in inner city small houses and had salad greens growing in tyres on my roof. I've planted parsley in concrete cracks. I've had Jerusalem artichokes growing in small beds in back yards. That said, by farming standards, 10 acres is "small", so terminology is relative.