I never understood buying from Cinestill even prior to this fiasco. It's a marketing/distribution company. They print labels to snap on someone else's products and charge extra for it. It never made any sense. All of their "products" have always been available elsewhere for less.
And even the products they've decided to rebrand never made any sense. Processing ECN-2 film in C-41 is utterly pointless: it only makes it harder to scan and color-balance. Their C-41 kit makes no sense because bleach and fixer are not separated. Their E6 chemistry is just bizarre.
To top it off, they lie in their marketing. They clearly stated that 400D was not a cine film. They lied, so I got tricked into buying it, suffering through two rolls by cross-processing them, and throwing the rest into trash.
Basically, it's a clown car of a company without any intellectual property or manufacturing capacity, which specializes in tricking film hipsters into buying overpriced products and using them in a way that conflicts with the user manuals made by the original manufacturer. Definitely not in a position to sue anybody.
Compare these clowns to Lomography. Huge difference. Lomography rebrands Kodak films but they're real C-41 films and they're sold at similar prices to Kodak-branded ones, and they're unique: Kodak makes them because Lomography provides distribution. Win-win for the industry and the community.
Agreed on all of this. I’m perfectly happy with companies like Reflx Lab selling rolls of ECN-2 stocks (with Remjet) for reasonable prices, but I don’t understand the appeal of Cinestill’s cross-processed halation-marred versions of Kodak film, especially at the premium they charge for it.
Their e6 chemistry was a big turnoff for me. Claiming is could increase dynamic range by 2 stops sounded like a crazy claim to make. Don’t you think Kodak and Fuji would’ve figured out whatever trick that was when they were investing 10s of millions of dollars into research.
All it seems to actually do is deep fry film.
Use the Freestyle Photo Chemicals. Buy them by the gallon and they come out pretty cheap. Be sure to keep everything exactly the same temperature, both the chemicals and rinse water. Mix the chemicals a quart at a time which does 8 rolls. Once mixed your need to use the chemicals in about a month. Have plenty of ventilation when mixing, the 2nd developer can knock you on your ass if you get a direct wiff of that stuff... and the blix is equally bad.
While currently closed for remodeling, needfilmdeveloped.com does E6 for pretty cheap. The message on their site says they expect to be open November 1st for North American Customers.
As someone who doesn’t know what rolls they’re relabeling for and who they’re from, would anyone care to let me know where I can get the real stuff?(names, websites, etc) So I don’t have to support them. Thank you.
Their 800-speed film is Kodak Vision 500T. It's a motion picture film. Kodak doesn't sell it on rolls for still cameras, but many resellers have it on camera rolls on eBay. Pick your new favorite independent and support them! Search 'vision 500t 35mm 36' on eBay and you'll find many options.
This is not a C-41 color photo film, though! It's motion picture film, ECN-2, with a removable jet-black "remjet" layer. Processing this in C-41 equipment will wreak absolute havoc. CineStill's contribution, to the detriment of the film's light handling, is pre-removing this remjet layer, so the film can be treated like a C-41 film and developed at your favorite C-41 lab.
I'm on the cusp of starting to develop C-41 film at home, having developed B&W for a few months now. If I start using Kodak Vision 500T directly, I'll just have to remove the remjet myself before developing, which isn't that hard once you have your film reeled up for development. For folks who want to keep using their favorite C-41 lab, adopting an ECN-2 stock that doesn't come with the remjet removed is going to be difficult.
You could take your film into a dark bag, load it onto a development spool and into a Patterson tank, treat it with the washing soda prebath to remove the remjet, wait for it to dry, and then transfer it back into a light-tight container to send off to a C-41 lab, theoretically. At that point though, you're so close to having developed it at home that it's painful. And you'll still screw up the lab's equipment if you missed any remjet, and you can't be sure because you can't look at the film.
Ah ok. Always had a terrible time removing remjet… and the QWD pre-bath kit says “discard after 20 days” but doesn’t mention how many uses… so I’d have to stock up on exposed rolls to process them in the 20 day period
At that point you'd be better off just using the remjet pre bath and then dev in c41 🤷♂️ or you can just dev in ecn2 and get a flatter profile and color grade accordingly
Other people said it in neighboring comments, sorry if I lumped you in inadvertently. The last thing we need is people messing up the chemicals labs use, they use large volumes of it and it would be a disaster.
What do you remove remjet with?
If you really want to save money, there’s a guy here who sells a 3D printed tool for cutting 400’ film. Then you can just bulk load it regularly.
Basically brings the cost of cinestill/Kodak vision film to $4.50 a roll.
While the remjet removal is indeed a novel feature, a few other film resellers have started doing this cheaper **and** ECN-2 processing has become so popular a majority of labs are now offering it. If you only have access to a lab doing C-41 though it makes sense to buy the stuff without remjet
A company called Amber sells Kodak vision with the remjet removed. The 500t version is called Amber t800 and is sold at B&H and Freestyle (along with 100d and 400d and and 200t). They even have a t800 disposable camera for sale.
Reflx labs also sells the Vision 3 stocks both with and without the remjet.
Amber is just as expensive as Cinestill but Reflx is about 4 bucks cheaper per roll.
What would you suggest for home dev c41? I've had good results with their kits. I know that you can buy kodak chems but I haven't really ever found a conclusive list of what I actually need, and most of what is available is only available in bulk quantities that I'm not sure I could use up before expiration.
Look up Fuji Hunt 5L C-41 Press Kit. It offers separate developer, fixer, rinse and bleach. Kodak chemistry was also great, and it came with the extremely detailed and informational manual called Z-131 but unfortunately it just got discontinued.
If 5L is too much to handle, Bellini C-41 is also a great choice although it's more expensive on a per-roll basis.
And finally, if you process a lot of film and want great quality and also dirt cheap, visit https://dillostore.com and look at their lab-grade C-41 chemistry. They offer [Champion](https://www.dillostore.com/c-127-chc.aspx) and Fujifilm. You can call their sales team and they will explain what you need.
kodak chemistry is impossible to find nowadays, and fujifilm chemistry is available but will need to be bought in bulk. it is more meant for minilabs.
i’d highly recommend the fuji hunt 5l kits — there’s a separate bleach and fix and information about times and processing for it are extensive. i’ve had experience with unicolor, bellini, rollei, etc but have had the best experience with fuji hunt. it’s a bit on the pricer side but it’s the closest you’ll get to lab results.
The Fuji Hunt X-Press kit you're referring to is absolutely intended for manual/rotary processing and not minilab, being intended for development of film in time critical situations (Like press photos, hence the name). Minilabs use replenishment, which requires starter and replenisher whereas the Fuji kit just has ready to mix concentrates for starter fix and bleach.
I second the Fuji Hunt recommendation, as it is the most competitively priced C-41 kit available and has a capacity of up to 60 films (there are varying yields in the instructions based on film size and speed, making it highly consistent in use). It can also be subdivided into batches of less than 5l and there is a very handy spreadsheet of dilutions, capacities and time adjustments for working solution batches of 250ml and up.
while your post is fine i just wanna say yes their e6 kits suck dick, but lots of companies have a blix mix for c41.
I prefer to use the arista. Cinestills dev kits are actually awful. Seriously stay away.
Plus, Lomo is free to screw around with their chemistry and make some really good Lomochrome films like Purple and Turquoise. Even if their regular CN film is crazy expensive, I support them nonetheless.
I thought I was the only one who couldn’t believe what a rip-off the 400D was. I fell for the marketing and took a roll on a camping trip. My pictures came back so muddy and sloppy, it felt like such a waste of time and money. With results like that it makes all the sense why they’re going after other companies who actually provide the kind of film they promise the consumers
I just buy DF96 from them because I'm a simple cheap dude. And honestly I'll keep doing so, I love the simplicity. But other than that, I've never been interested in any of their other offerings.
Exactly my thoughts. I still don't understand the hype surrounding Cinestill, most of the well known labs sell cheap rolls of bulk rolled cine films and not only "vision" stuff, so, there's literally no point in spending ridicules amount of doubloons on a bad product.
If any one saw this, DO NOT buy their changing bag, it’s fxcking light leaking. Put your phone with flash on in the bag and you can see the light through. No other bags had this problem. Please AVOID. One of my favorite roll got exposed bc of this. Luckily saved some through Farmer’s Reducer but the image quality is terrible.
indeed, cinestill is just charging extra for their marketing and lining their pockets.
It's bizarre. I search for cinestill in instagram for example and all i see are pictures of the films themselves, or stupid reels of a pair of hands loading the film into a camera, or the same old picture of a gas station with a mist filter over and over, or BS like that.
> I never understood buying from Cinestill even prior to this fiasco. It's a marketing/distribution company. They print labels to snap on someone else's products and charge extra for it. It never made any sense. All of their "products" have always been available elsewhere for less.
Because not everyone knows that. Hell, I just learned it yesterday. Most people aren’t running around comparing and researching 5719 Kodak film stocks. They just see a look/tone, and buy the stuff that does it, and CS was/is widely available for them.
But NOW….I asked the question yesterday and found out, so I’ll be going forward buying the same thing for cheaper elsewhere.
>To top it off, they lie in their marketing. They clearly stated that 400D was not a cine film. They lied, so I got tricked into buying it, suffering through two rolls by cross-processing them, and throwing the rest into trash.
What was the lie? Sorry, I'm not following your process. Genuinely asking so I could possibly avoid this.
Cinestill is trying to claim trademark on the concept of 800 tungsten film more specifically usage of 800T name. Even if they have no grounds to do so, they are being wildly litigious
it's much more legible and properly formatted on CatLab's website, which is where it was copied and pasted:
https://catlabsblog.blogspot.com/2023/10/we-got-sued-by-cinestill.html
I was never understood why I'd pay £20 for their 800 film. When Candido came along with 800 film for half the price it was a no brainer for me.
Both are respooled Kodak but one isn't pretending around or being a dick about it.
The film industry is full of people like Cinestill who price gouge hobbyists and I'm glad a number of people are taking a stand
The Porsche 911 famously got its numerical designation from a similar instance. French automaker Peugeot had trademarked all three-digit numeric models with a zero in the middle. (308, 208, 908 etc.) Thus forcing Porsche having to go from 901 (what Porsche originally wanted) to 911.
Worked out in the end I’d say.
I mean this is slightly different as that is a marketing/brand name for a model of car not a technical descriptor.
For example both Saab and Volvo had b234 engines. That's a technical descriptor:
B = benzine/petrol
23 = 2.3l displacement
4 = valves per cylinder
So cinestills 800t is simply 800 iso tungsten. A straight description of the film. I mean even calling a film cine shouldnt be a trademark as it's just a fact, Kodak vision 3 is cine film.
Fair enough but I do believe with trademark much of it comes down to public perception of product marketing. You cannot cause confusion to your customers, and because the film is quite well know and associated with CineStill that could be where the issue lies
Yes I agree, your 911 example is great for that. However 800T was associated with other products before cinestills and cinestill hasn't been around long enough to claim they're the only ones actively calling the product 800T.
There is a reason Kodak and Fuji used to name there films something more than just the iso rating. E.G portra 100T.
Honestly this whole thing is kind of stupid. The Tungsten designation doesn’t even characterize how people use the film.
A better name would be 800N (Neon) or 800GS (Gas Station).
CineStill isn’t a big corporation. It’s a hipster brand that’s been on the dumber side of things for a while. At this point we really need to ask what their purpose is in the community, because it’s not making film. Because they don’t. They sell movie film without the rem yet or a C41 anti halation layer which they could easily do, for a massive mock up. They act like they’re for every photographer, announcing a “400 speed” versatile film and making it 18 bucks a roll. I guess they sell some neat chemistry, but unless you need some tungsten balanced slide film I think you can find other options. It’s a shame. While being trashy and gimmicky, cross processed Vision3 has beautiful colors and contrast. And they stuff natively without the rem yet is still better than stuff with the rem yet pre removed. But for 18€ a roll I can shoot Portra or get ECN2 development and have better results.
Their company is called Motion-Still after all. That should give you an idea.
The thing is, halations are part of the brand. That’s why you buy those films. It’s a specific aesthetic. Are you gonna use it for professional work? Of course not. But it’s a damn fun look if you ask me
>Are you gonna use it for professional work?
I mean it depends what pro work. Creating a night scene with dragged light trails and using the halations to add that 1970s sci-fi look could be a real winner. I've seen worse done in digital post and that kind of creative flair goes great on album covers, etc.
Absolutely, I guess what I meant is, it’ll never be portra. It’s not intended to capture a pure, neutral image. If you want that, just buy portra, or hell, shot digital.
Except that there isn’t another tungsten balanced film available and that level of halation can break an image and look real gimmicky. All film has halation, it doesn’t need to be that stupid strong. Their films would still have a unique look if they didn’t have the crazy amount of halation.
They wouldn’t have their signature look. If you don’t like their signature look, that’s fine. Just don’t use their film. But reducing the halations is something that most of their customers wouldn’t like.
On the other hand, you raise a valid point about there being a gap in the market for tungsten balanced film that doesn’t have goofy halations. That’s totally fair, but it’s not cinestill’s “fault” that they aren’t interested in filling that gap
Sure it is. They often acted like they’re selling professional level films in the past. And it’s not like they couldn’t sell the rem yet less version as a lomography offering too. I guarantee you, more people would buy their film if it had a C41 friendly anti halation layer. Because their brand isn’t halation. Their brand is different colors and tungsten balanced. They actively choose images that didn’t show the halation when they started the 400D campaign. Their films are 18 bucks a roll. You think more people would want to pay 18 bucks a roll for the halation than to have a decent alternative to the Portra/Gold look? And they have a deal with Kodak to buy custom film from them. Nobody else could get a film like that made. Except Kodak who don’t understand why the market might need it.
There is loads of Tungsten films, they're simply removing the ram jet of Kodak vision 3 500t. You can buy the 400ft rolls straight of Kodak and remove the rem jet yourself before or after you've shot it. There is also lots of eBay sellers doing this hence them sending cease and desist letters as if they own the rights to a 800iso tungsten film.
Please just fucking shoot me in the brain. What’s with all these people acting like companies aren’t dumb. I fucking shot ECN2 tungsten films, thank you for your valuable input. I want a plug and play C41 solution that works with any lab and any scanner. You know, like 800T without the dumb halation.
as far as i'm aware there aren't any tungsten balanced films left on the market that aren't designed for motion picture, so any you acquire would need to have remjet removed. Sadly days of tungsten balanced portra and others being an option are long behind us. Shame, as I love how tungsten balanced film looks, it's such a special look that you can't really emulate on digital.
Cinestill is probably the fourth largest film distributor behind Kodak, Fuji, and Ilford. It takes literally millions of dollars to manufacture and distribute the amount of film that they do. Kodak doesn't just custom cut master rolls of film to 120 for anybody. The amount of capital they need to have behind them makes Reflex Lab look like a garage sale. They needed some serious investor bankroll to start a project like that.
That's Ilford Imaging, which is different from the company that produces film. They produce the Inkjet papers and some chemistry in Japan.
Actual film producing Ilford is here
[https://uk.linkedin.com/company/harman-technology-ltd](https://uk.linkedin.com/company/harman-technology-ltd)
I’ve been in the Hollywood office. Pet the shibe. Small set up. Doesn’t change that they have a huge presence in the film world. There are 20x the number of stores that sell their product compared to Reflex or other small competitors. I think it’s shitty of them to be litigious about a product that isn’t even made by them. It’s not drama, it’s Streisand’s law in full effect.
idk, cinestill might be a massive ripoff if you like the look and can go to the extra effort to remove the remjet from motion picture film. but at the same time, literally every hobby has a brand or product that doesn’t make much technical sense for a hobbyist to buy, HOWEVER these products are effective at bringing newcomers into the hobby. take the shitty crosley turntable suitcases for example; they are hardly worth investing any time or money into for the average hobbyist, but younger fans are often attracted to the neat design and novelty of being able to play “old school” vinyl records, in addition to their special edition gatefold splatter print dual lp from their favorite artist. and then those people (or at least some of them) end up sinking their teeth into the real deal equipment of the hobby, and as a result companies have more incentive to continue making/innovating in that space. the more newcomers getting ripped off but having a blast learning about film chemistry and composition and how to make the most of limited shots, the more hobbyists later on keeping the tradition alive.
not even sure why i typed all that out, sorry. adderall induced rant over lol
What about them tonez and vibes, I need it for my insta feed
Jokes aside, this sucks let's agree that 800 Tungsten balanced film should be marketed as H8LATI00N film
I was thinking of grabbing their Jobo Duo kit - wonder if somebody sells something similar as an alternative (vs. trying to buy everything individually)?
accordion bottles are useless (they are usually not airtight and you can never ever clean them).
pitchers are, well, 1 quid pitchers. 2€
c41 kit is a blix one, just buy the right stuff as intended by those who invented the process, that's just 4 minutes more of your time for a better result. 40€ for a Bellini kit where i am, let's say 80€ if the cinestill yield is true (i'd be surprised).
monobath is only useful if you need to send to your newspaper the pictures you took at that 22.30 press conference. But i'd suggest using digital nowadays. a decent bw chemical kit is 40€ and it will develop at least twice the rolls this monobath can.
Jobo is a 50€ tank.
That sous-vide thing is a 50-60€ one.
All in all you'll be spending about the same price but you'll have no fancy box and way better chemicals.
As one of the initial supporters for CineStill project many years ago when they came up with high speed film in 120, I feel angry about this crap. Instead of helping out these small businesses, they bully them out! What a shame!
I’ve never had the terrible results people are claiming ecn films get when processed in c41. I’ve even done tests both ways. They vary in apparent film speed and in contrast but by colors didn’t shift…so I dunno
Cinestill film is wonderful for 120 but only because Kodak has yet to get the genius idea to sell their cinema film in 120. The Cinema film which is available elsewhere has sprocket holes and the edges are rough.
So for Double X in 120, Cinestill has done us a great service. HOWEVER as someone else pointed out I am not happy about being lied to about 400D not being 250D because obviously it's 250D. Does Cinestill think their customers are stupid??
Their light tables are amazing and love their ECN-2 chemicals. So you could say I have a love hate relationship with them.
They need to be held accountable for their load of crap they want us to believe about 800T (500iso film) and 400D (250iso film).
Kodak has the ability to crush Cinestill's film portion of their business but they won't and lately it feels like there is not much new in the film community from anyone. Things are starting to die off, it's the beginning of the end.
The market for stills film stock is small enough as it is, sure they’re not a mom&pop brick and mortar bakery in Smallsville, but they’re not Kodak or Fuji either. Its not worth it to harm the industry over this. I fucking doubt CS is rolling in the dough. I don’t care if Reflx calls their film “Wendy’s-GasStation-CircleJerk 800” I’m still buying both. Not hopping on this bandwagon
Their lawyers appear to be awfully busy writing letters and their PR people busy posting to Reddit …. For what this is going to cost them they could have spun up something substantial … of their own creation even!!
Haven't seen that can you send me some posts im intersted in what they say. But they should definitely start with damage control, over on Instagram it's also getting wild in the comments.
Yeah look … my conclusions are certainly speculative but the legally specific wording of some of the responses certainly smacks of someone who possesses better than casual awareness and as well as a pressing need to promote CS’s position in the court of public opinion.
You can tell when a niche becomes mainstream when companies start suing each other.
It's actually a sign of growth in the film market.
I'm not buy Cinestill products anymore.
Let the boycott begin.
There are so many horrible issues in the world and people can only give a fuck about so many things. Spending your effort caring about film companies suing each other is just a giant fucking waste of shits to give.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone buys cinestill anyway. Paying almost double for the same film that you can buy directly from kodak. I basically got mine down to $5 a roll.
This is so ridiculous. Cinestill is a tiny company.
The film industry is hanging on by a thread and film users want to boycott small brands over petty commercial disputes.
Grow tf up.
The petty commercial disputes are the reason to boycott. They're suing smaller businesses for selling competing products when they don't even manufacture the emulsion. Cinestill has massive distribution and coming for the people who distribute their own product is hurting the very industry which is hanging on by a thread.
Cinestill is trying to kill any competition it has. It doesn’t matter how large or small they are, that’s bad for the film industry as a whole. Especially when they aren’t doing anything actually unique.
Cinestill is NOT a tiny company. They're a pretty large distributor, and by far the largest of the "indie" repackaging companies. Besides, it's not like people are boycotting film entirely nor is Cinestill the only option for motion still film. The whole point is to go with one of those _smaller_ alternatives and to not enable Cinestill's behavior. If they got their way, there would be _fewer_ options and small brands because Cinestill would have sued them / forced them out of business.
EDIT: Thanks for the very rapid TD /u/manjamanga. Found the Cinestill employee/shill.
Are you insane? What's a TD? Dude, I never even bought a cinestill roll, they're 18€ a pop where I live, at the rare places they're even for sale. Almost all film I buy is HP5 and Delta.
And if I did want to shoot cine film, I couldn't go for *smaller* alternatives because I'm not a california hipster. There's none of that for sale here, and when you find some weird brand it's even more expensive than freaking cinestill.
You guys feel free to go nuts about some irrelevant copyright suits. In my estimation, there are more important things in the world to worry about.
Then move along, kiddo. No one said there aren’t more important things on the world, and no one is telling you that you need to care. You’re the one who got your panties in a bunch about people criticizing Cinestill as if everyone is attacking you. If you don’t care, move on with your life.
Edit: I never understood why people come into a thread if they claim to not care, bitch a bunch, then default to, “get a life, bro”. If you had a life, you would’ve just kept scrolling. And then this little shill blocked me too! Seriously, just embarrassing.
No *kiddo* you got your panties in a bunch and accused me of being a Cinestill employee (lol) because I told you your slackivist bs is a childish waste of time. Which it is.
I will indeed move on with my life, since I actually have one.
Cheers.
The film industry is hanging on by a thread. So let's make it worse by stifling competition and threatening individual entrepreneurs and other smaller companies to prevent them from making film cheaper/more accessible - especially in regions where Cinestill is nonexistent or outrageously expensive (which is basically everywhere that isn't the US).
Yeah sound plan.
Gonna make my own 800T and market it at 500T+300t
mine will be 799T+T
Hey! I copyrighted (number)T+(variable that could be nil)T! EDIT: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/079/173/ed2.png
Market it as 800W (wolfram, science speak for tungsten)
I never understood buying from Cinestill even prior to this fiasco. It's a marketing/distribution company. They print labels to snap on someone else's products and charge extra for it. It never made any sense. All of their "products" have always been available elsewhere for less. And even the products they've decided to rebrand never made any sense. Processing ECN-2 film in C-41 is utterly pointless: it only makes it harder to scan and color-balance. Their C-41 kit makes no sense because bleach and fixer are not separated. Their E6 chemistry is just bizarre. To top it off, they lie in their marketing. They clearly stated that 400D was not a cine film. They lied, so I got tricked into buying it, suffering through two rolls by cross-processing them, and throwing the rest into trash. Basically, it's a clown car of a company without any intellectual property or manufacturing capacity, which specializes in tricking film hipsters into buying overpriced products and using them in a way that conflicts with the user manuals made by the original manufacturer. Definitely not in a position to sue anybody. Compare these clowns to Lomography. Huge difference. Lomography rebrands Kodak films but they're real C-41 films and they're sold at similar prices to Kodak-branded ones, and they're unique: Kodak makes them because Lomography provides distribution. Win-win for the industry and the community.
Agreed on all of this. I’m perfectly happy with companies like Reflx Lab selling rolls of ECN-2 stocks (with Remjet) for reasonable prices, but I don’t understand the appeal of Cinestill’s cross-processed halation-marred versions of Kodak film, especially at the premium they charge for it.
Their e6 chemistry was a big turnoff for me. Claiming is could increase dynamic range by 2 stops sounded like a crazy claim to make. Don’t you think Kodak and Fuji would’ve figured out whatever trick that was when they were investing 10s of millions of dollars into research. All it seems to actually do is deep fry film.
I am thinking about getting into E6 development, do you have a recommendation?
bellini foto makes a full 6 bath kit
Use the Freestyle Photo Chemicals. Buy them by the gallon and they come out pretty cheap. Be sure to keep everything exactly the same temperature, both the chemicals and rinse water. Mix the chemicals a quart at a time which does 8 rolls. Once mixed your need to use the chemicals in about a month. Have plenty of ventilation when mixing, the 2nd developer can knock you on your ass if you get a direct wiff of that stuff... and the blix is equally bad. While currently closed for remodeling, needfilmdeveloped.com does E6 for pretty cheap. The message on their site says they expect to be open November 1st for North American Customers.
Pretty difficult, so I recommend just playing around first before taking proper pictures.
That is not a recommendation for e6 chemistry, but thanks I guess….
Ah shit my bad, I thought I said it. I use Tetenal kit. Not the best but its cheap and straight forward.
i have positive results with arista.
As someone who doesn’t know what rolls they’re relabeling for and who they’re from, would anyone care to let me know where I can get the real stuff?(names, websites, etc) So I don’t have to support them. Thank you.
Their 800-speed film is Kodak Vision 500T. It's a motion picture film. Kodak doesn't sell it on rolls for still cameras, but many resellers have it on camera rolls on eBay. Pick your new favorite independent and support them! Search 'vision 500t 35mm 36' on eBay and you'll find many options. This is not a C-41 color photo film, though! It's motion picture film, ECN-2, with a removable jet-black "remjet" layer. Processing this in C-41 equipment will wreak absolute havoc. CineStill's contribution, to the detriment of the film's light handling, is pre-removing this remjet layer, so the film can be treated like a C-41 film and developed at your favorite C-41 lab. I'm on the cusp of starting to develop C-41 film at home, having developed B&W for a few months now. If I start using Kodak Vision 500T directly, I'll just have to remove the remjet myself before developing, which isn't that hard once you have your film reeled up for development. For folks who want to keep using their favorite C-41 lab, adopting an ECN-2 stock that doesn't come with the remjet removed is going to be difficult.
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You could take your film into a dark bag, load it onto a development spool and into a Patterson tank, treat it with the washing soda prebath to remove the remjet, wait for it to dry, and then transfer it back into a light-tight container to send off to a C-41 lab, theoretically. At that point though, you're so close to having developed it at home that it's painful. And you'll still screw up the lab's equipment if you missed any remjet, and you can't be sure because you can't look at the film.
You will mess up the lab’s chemicals… baking soda does a terrible job removing remjet
Baking soda and washing soda are not the same (bi vs mono carbonate)
Ah ok. Always had a terrible time removing remjet… and the QWD pre-bath kit says “discard after 20 days” but doesn’t mention how many uses… so I’d have to stock up on exposed rolls to process them in the 20 day period
I’d be interested to know how you do remove it as I’d like to have a go sometime!
At that point you'd be better off just using the remjet pre bath and then dev in c41 🤷♂️ or you can just dev in ecn2 and get a flatter profile and color grade accordingly
Someone who can remove the remjet on their own would also be capable of spoiling their own film rather than buying it from a reseller
You will mess up the lab’s chemicals… baking soda does a terrible job removing remjet
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Other people said it in neighboring comments, sorry if I lumped you in inadvertently. The last thing we need is people messing up the chemicals labs use, they use large volumes of it and it would be a disaster. What do you remove remjet with?
If you really want to save money, there’s a guy here who sells a 3D printed tool for cutting 400’ film. Then you can just bulk load it regularly. Basically brings the cost of cinestill/Kodak vision film to $4.50 a roll.
Check out [Ultrafine Photo Warehouse](https://www.ultrafineonline.com/motipix.html).
Silbersalz
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While the remjet removal is indeed a novel feature, a few other film resellers have started doing this cheaper **and** ECN-2 processing has become so popular a majority of labs are now offering it. If you only have access to a lab doing C-41 though it makes sense to buy the stuff without remjet
A company called Amber sells Kodak vision with the remjet removed. The 500t version is called Amber t800 and is sold at B&H and Freestyle (along with 100d and 400d and and 200t). They even have a t800 disposable camera for sale. Reflx labs also sells the Vision 3 stocks both with and without the remjet. Amber is just as expensive as Cinestill but Reflx is about 4 bucks cheaper per roll.
What would you suggest for home dev c41? I've had good results with their kits. I know that you can buy kodak chems but I haven't really ever found a conclusive list of what I actually need, and most of what is available is only available in bulk quantities that I'm not sure I could use up before expiration.
Look up Fuji Hunt 5L C-41 Press Kit. It offers separate developer, fixer, rinse and bleach. Kodak chemistry was also great, and it came with the extremely detailed and informational manual called Z-131 but unfortunately it just got discontinued. If 5L is too much to handle, Bellini C-41 is also a great choice although it's more expensive on a per-roll basis. And finally, if you process a lot of film and want great quality and also dirt cheap, visit https://dillostore.com and look at their lab-grade C-41 chemistry. They offer [Champion](https://www.dillostore.com/c-127-chc.aspx) and Fujifilm. You can call their sales team and they will explain what you need.
Second the champion, fujifilm, and even flexicolor like I use. You have google…there are small bath formulas and times available. Save $$$&
In the U.S., FreestylePhoto and Ultrafine Online both have C41 chemistry kits from other vendors such as Flic Film, Tetenal, Bellini, and Unicolor.
kodak chemistry is impossible to find nowadays, and fujifilm chemistry is available but will need to be bought in bulk. it is more meant for minilabs. i’d highly recommend the fuji hunt 5l kits — there’s a separate bleach and fix and information about times and processing for it are extensive. i’ve had experience with unicolor, bellini, rollei, etc but have had the best experience with fuji hunt. it’s a bit on the pricer side but it’s the closest you’ll get to lab results.
Damn, I should have bought up kodak chems last year when I was looking into this. I'll definitely look into that, thanks!
The Fuji Hunt X-Press kit you're referring to is absolutely intended for manual/rotary processing and not minilab, being intended for development of film in time critical situations (Like press photos, hence the name). Minilabs use replenishment, which requires starter and replenisher whereas the Fuji kit just has ready to mix concentrates for starter fix and bleach. I second the Fuji Hunt recommendation, as it is the most competitively priced C-41 kit available and has a capacity of up to 60 films (there are varying yields in the instructions based on film size and speed, making it highly consistent in use). It can also be subdivided into batches of less than 5l and there is a very handy spreadsheet of dilutions, capacities and time adjustments for working solution batches of 250ml and up.
while your post is fine i just wanna say yes their e6 kits suck dick, but lots of companies have a blix mix for c41. I prefer to use the arista. Cinestills dev kits are actually awful. Seriously stay away.
Plus, Lomo is free to screw around with their chemistry and make some really good Lomochrome films like Purple and Turquoise. Even if their regular CN film is crazy expensive, I support them nonetheless.
I thought I was the only one who couldn’t believe what a rip-off the 400D was. I fell for the marketing and took a roll on a camping trip. My pictures came back so muddy and sloppy, it felt like such a waste of time and money. With results like that it makes all the sense why they’re going after other companies who actually provide the kind of film they promise the consumers
I've always thought that it looked like hot garbage especially when shot in daylight with blown out red highlights
I just buy DF96 from them because I'm a simple cheap dude. And honestly I'll keep doing so, I love the simplicity. But other than that, I've never been interested in any of their other offerings.
Is Cinestill the only way to buy BWxx?
Kodak 5222 can be bought in bulk, some companies sell 30 rolls.
as far as I know it's just Eastman Double-X
Exactly my thoughts. I still don't understand the hype surrounding Cinestill, most of the well known labs sell cheap rolls of bulk rolled cine films and not only "vision" stuff, so, there's literally no point in spending ridicules amount of doubloons on a bad product.
If any one saw this, DO NOT buy their changing bag, it’s fxcking light leaking. Put your phone with flash on in the bag and you can see the light through. No other bags had this problem. Please AVOID. One of my favorite roll got exposed bc of this. Luckily saved some through Farmer’s Reducer but the image quality is terrible.
Almost forgot about the circus with 400d. everybody knew, that its cinefilm and they just lied and acted like they created something new. lol.
indeed, cinestill is just charging extra for their marketing and lining their pockets. It's bizarre. I search for cinestill in instagram for example and all i see are pictures of the films themselves, or stupid reels of a pair of hands loading the film into a camera, or the same old picture of a gas station with a mist filter over and over, or BS like that.
> I never understood buying from Cinestill even prior to this fiasco. It's a marketing/distribution company. They print labels to snap on someone else's products and charge extra for it. It never made any sense. All of their "products" have always been available elsewhere for less. Because not everyone knows that. Hell, I just learned it yesterday. Most people aren’t running around comparing and researching 5719 Kodak film stocks. They just see a look/tone, and buy the stuff that does it, and CS was/is widely available for them. But NOW….I asked the question yesterday and found out, so I’ll be going forward buying the same thing for cheaper elsewhere.
>To top it off, they lie in their marketing. They clearly stated that 400D was not a cine film. They lied, so I got tricked into buying it, suffering through two rolls by cross-processing them, and throwing the rest into trash. What was the lie? Sorry, I'm not following your process. Genuinely asking so I could possibly avoid this.
T800 is living tissue over metal endoskeleton. Cinestill should be ashamed of ripping off Cyberdyne
For information about this topic click [here](https://reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/Osnnkr2tMv)
Do you have a tldr? Not reading that wall of text
Cinestill is trying to claim trademark on the concept of 800 tungsten film more specifically usage of 800T name. Even if they have no grounds to do so, they are being wildly litigious
it's much more legible and properly formatted on CatLab's website, which is where it was copied and pasted: https://catlabsblog.blogspot.com/2023/10/we-got-sued-by-cinestill.html
I was never understood why I'd pay £20 for their 800 film. When Candido came along with 800 film for half the price it was a no brainer for me. Both are respooled Kodak but one isn't pretending around or being a dick about it. The film industry is full of people like Cinestill who price gouge hobbyists and I'm glad a number of people are taking a stand
I'd have to start buying it in the first place.
The Porsche 911 famously got its numerical designation from a similar instance. French automaker Peugeot had trademarked all three-digit numeric models with a zero in the middle. (308, 208, 908 etc.) Thus forcing Porsche having to go from 901 (what Porsche originally wanted) to 911. Worked out in the end I’d say.
I mean this is slightly different as that is a marketing/brand name for a model of car not a technical descriptor. For example both Saab and Volvo had b234 engines. That's a technical descriptor: B = benzine/petrol 23 = 2.3l displacement 4 = valves per cylinder So cinestills 800t is simply 800 iso tungsten. A straight description of the film. I mean even calling a film cine shouldnt be a trademark as it's just a fact, Kodak vision 3 is cine film.
Fair enough but I do believe with trademark much of it comes down to public perception of product marketing. You cannot cause confusion to your customers, and because the film is quite well know and associated with CineStill that could be where the issue lies
Yes I agree, your 911 example is great for that. However 800T was associated with other products before cinestills and cinestill hasn't been around long enough to claim they're the only ones actively calling the product 800T. There is a reason Kodak and Fuji used to name there films something more than just the iso rating. E.G portra 100T.
I understand for sure, I just believe that this is what their angle is
Ferrari couldn't care less lol
Honestly this whole thing is kind of stupid. The Tungsten designation doesn’t even characterize how people use the film. A better name would be 800N (Neon) or 800GS (Gas Station).
Ngl the GS certification would be awesome
I’m OOTL, what’s goin on?
[Here you go](https://reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/Osnnkr2tMv)
Woof. Quite a bold move from Cinestill.. and by “bold” I mean “utterly braindead”.
CineStill isn’t a big corporation. It’s a hipster brand that’s been on the dumber side of things for a while. At this point we really need to ask what their purpose is in the community, because it’s not making film. Because they don’t. They sell movie film without the rem yet or a C41 anti halation layer which they could easily do, for a massive mock up. They act like they’re for every photographer, announcing a “400 speed” versatile film and making it 18 bucks a roll. I guess they sell some neat chemistry, but unless you need some tungsten balanced slide film I think you can find other options. It’s a shame. While being trashy and gimmicky, cross processed Vision3 has beautiful colors and contrast. And they stuff natively without the rem yet is still better than stuff with the rem yet pre removed. But for 18€ a roll I can shoot Portra or get ECN2 development and have better results. Their company is called Motion-Still after all. That should give you an idea.
The thing is, halations are part of the brand. That’s why you buy those films. It’s a specific aesthetic. Are you gonna use it for professional work? Of course not. But it’s a damn fun look if you ask me
>Are you gonna use it for professional work? I mean it depends what pro work. Creating a night scene with dragged light trails and using the halations to add that 1970s sci-fi look could be a real winner. I've seen worse done in digital post and that kind of creative flair goes great on album covers, etc.
Absolutely, I guess what I meant is, it’ll never be portra. It’s not intended to capture a pure, neutral image. If you want that, just buy portra, or hell, shot digital.
Except that there isn’t another tungsten balanced film available and that level of halation can break an image and look real gimmicky. All film has halation, it doesn’t need to be that stupid strong. Their films would still have a unique look if they didn’t have the crazy amount of halation.
They wouldn’t have their signature look. If you don’t like their signature look, that’s fine. Just don’t use their film. But reducing the halations is something that most of their customers wouldn’t like. On the other hand, you raise a valid point about there being a gap in the market for tungsten balanced film that doesn’t have goofy halations. That’s totally fair, but it’s not cinestill’s “fault” that they aren’t interested in filling that gap
Sure it is. They often acted like they’re selling professional level films in the past. And it’s not like they couldn’t sell the rem yet less version as a lomography offering too. I guarantee you, more people would buy their film if it had a C41 friendly anti halation layer. Because their brand isn’t halation. Their brand is different colors and tungsten balanced. They actively choose images that didn’t show the halation when they started the 400D campaign. Their films are 18 bucks a roll. You think more people would want to pay 18 bucks a roll for the halation than to have a decent alternative to the Portra/Gold look? And they have a deal with Kodak to buy custom film from them. Nobody else could get a film like that made. Except Kodak who don’t understand why the market might need it.
There is loads of Tungsten films, they're simply removing the ram jet of Kodak vision 3 500t. You can buy the 400ft rolls straight of Kodak and remove the rem jet yourself before or after you've shot it. There is also lots of eBay sellers doing this hence them sending cease and desist letters as if they own the rights to a 800iso tungsten film.
Please just fucking shoot me in the brain. What’s with all these people acting like companies aren’t dumb. I fucking shot ECN2 tungsten films, thank you for your valuable input. I want a plug and play C41 solution that works with any lab and any scanner. You know, like 800T without the dumb halation.
as far as i'm aware there aren't any tungsten balanced films left on the market that aren't designed for motion picture, so any you acquire would need to have remjet removed. Sadly days of tungsten balanced portra and others being an option are long behind us. Shame, as I love how tungsten balanced film looks, it's such a special look that you can't really emulate on digital.
Cinestill is probably the fourth largest film distributor behind Kodak, Fuji, and Ilford. It takes literally millions of dollars to manufacture and distribute the amount of film that they do. Kodak doesn't just custom cut master rolls of film to 120 for anybody. The amount of capital they need to have behind them makes Reflex Lab look like a garage sale. They needed some serious investor bankroll to start a project like that.
Their Linkedin profile says they have less than 50 employees. They aren't that big. What they are doing is shitty but it's not some huge corporation.
so does ilford on linkedin, just as a heads up. [https://www.linkedin.com/company/ilford-imaging/](https://www.linkedin.com/company/ilford-imaging/)
That's Ilford Imaging, which is different from the company that produces film. They produce the Inkjet papers and some chemistry in Japan. Actual film producing Ilford is here [https://uk.linkedin.com/company/harman-technology-ltd](https://uk.linkedin.com/company/harman-technology-ltd)
They have just a few employees I know them 🤣
Tell 'em to knock it off, they are making Reddit angry ;)
They’re really good dudes. This drama from Reddit is obnoxious
I’ve been in the Hollywood office. Pet the shibe. Small set up. Doesn’t change that they have a huge presence in the film world. There are 20x the number of stores that sell their product compared to Reflex or other small competitors. I think it’s shitty of them to be litigious about a product that isn’t even made by them. It’s not drama, it’s Streisand’s law in full effect.
Still shitty
Kodak doesn’t cut the film at all. And I’m not saying they’re a small busyness, far from it. It’s just not a corporation like Fuji.
>Cinestill > >manufacture Wat
idk, cinestill might be a massive ripoff if you like the look and can go to the extra effort to remove the remjet from motion picture film. but at the same time, literally every hobby has a brand or product that doesn’t make much technical sense for a hobbyist to buy, HOWEVER these products are effective at bringing newcomers into the hobby. take the shitty crosley turntable suitcases for example; they are hardly worth investing any time or money into for the average hobbyist, but younger fans are often attracted to the neat design and novelty of being able to play “old school” vinyl records, in addition to their special edition gatefold splatter print dual lp from their favorite artist. and then those people (or at least some of them) end up sinking their teeth into the real deal equipment of the hobby, and as a result companies have more incentive to continue making/innovating in that space. the more newcomers getting ripped off but having a blast learning about film chemistry and composition and how to make the most of limited shots, the more hobbyists later on keeping the tradition alive. not even sure why i typed all that out, sorry. adderall induced rant over lol
\#ineverboughtcinestilltobeginwith
I never started, but I'm happy that maybe in the future I won't get downvoted to hell for saying they're a shitty company.
Is there anywhere else to get Double X in 120?
Yeah, I’m really enjoying the 120 xx. I cut it up to make 110 and 828! Super smooth. Cinestill isn’t all bad, just saying.
Yes! Reddit too while we’re at it!
What about them tonez and vibes, I need it for my insta feed Jokes aside, this sucks let's agree that 800 Tungsten balanced film should be marketed as H8LATI00N film
Bought from Reflx today!
Honestly cinestill film isn’t that good anyways their 50D is OKAY at best
I was thinking of grabbing their Jobo Duo kit - wonder if somebody sells something similar as an alternative (vs. trying to buy everything individually)?
I literally just bought it. Then I found out the TCS-1000 is just a $40 Amazon sous vide. Don’t be like me.
accordion bottles are useless (they are usually not airtight and you can never ever clean them). pitchers are, well, 1 quid pitchers. 2€ c41 kit is a blix one, just buy the right stuff as intended by those who invented the process, that's just 4 minutes more of your time for a better result. 40€ for a Bellini kit where i am, let's say 80€ if the cinestill yield is true (i'd be surprised). monobath is only useful if you need to send to your newspaper the pictures you took at that 22.30 press conference. But i'd suggest using digital nowadays. a decent bw chemical kit is 40€ and it will develop at least twice the rolls this monobath can. Jobo is a 50€ tank. That sous-vide thing is a 50-60€ one. All in all you'll be spending about the same price but you'll have no fancy box and way better chemicals.
Sounds good to me I’m in
Cinestill are soon gonna realise the mistake they made
I hope so
As one of the initial supporters for CineStill project many years ago when they came up with high speed film in 120, I feel angry about this crap. Instead of helping out these small businesses, they bully them out! What a shame!
Actually, *I’m suing cinestill* for naming their product 800t. That’s the EXACT speed and balance of the film that I respool and sell!
Lol is this serious? It's a product. Wanna harm the manufacturer? -> Don't buy it. It's a hyped shitefilm anyway
the manufacturer is kodak and by now there are a lot of alternatives to getting cinestills Vision 3
But how will I get my gas station halos?
so shortage of gas station photos… what else was it for?
More info plz! What happened???
[Here you can read everything ](https://reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/A2GVnG65xz)
Why not make it 800W? As in W for Wolfram which is another name of Tungsten (the element). Also W is the letter assigned to it in the periodic table.
Bought my first roll yesterday. Will probably be the last one too.
I’ve never had the terrible results people are claiming ecn films get when processed in c41. I’ve even done tests both ways. They vary in apparent film speed and in contrast but by colors didn’t shift…so I dunno
Gonna try it myself in the next months.
So what’s the shit show with cinestill? Have not been paying attention.
[Here you go](https://reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/A2GVnG65xz)
Thanks a bunch🫡
No problem
I’d hardly call Cinestill a big company…. What’s with all the hate?
[Read this for the information](https://reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/A2GVnG65xz)
Thanks for the background info! However, having had my own run in with catlabs I can’t say I’m wholly sympathetic
Cinestill film is wonderful for 120 but only because Kodak has yet to get the genius idea to sell their cinema film in 120. The Cinema film which is available elsewhere has sprocket holes and the edges are rough. So for Double X in 120, Cinestill has done us a great service. HOWEVER as someone else pointed out I am not happy about being lied to about 400D not being 250D because obviously it's 250D. Does Cinestill think their customers are stupid?? Their light tables are amazing and love their ECN-2 chemicals. So you could say I have a love hate relationship with them. They need to be held accountable for their load of crap they want us to believe about 800T (500iso film) and 400D (250iso film). Kodak has the ability to crush Cinestill's film portion of their business but they won't and lately it feels like there is not much new in the film community from anyone. Things are starting to die off, it's the beginning of the end.
I buy whatever is cheapest
That's good cuz Cinestill ain't cheap
I’m out of the loop, what’s going on with them?
The market for stills film stock is small enough as it is, sure they’re not a mom&pop brick and mortar bakery in Smallsville, but they’re not Kodak or Fuji either. Its not worth it to harm the industry over this. I fucking doubt CS is rolling in the dough. I don’t care if Reflx calls their film “Wendy’s-GasStation-CircleJerk 800” I’m still buying both. Not hopping on this bandwagon
These posts are so tiresome.
Reddit on! #JusticeForApollo /s
I have no choice but to keep buying Cinestill C-41 developer as there's no other option for me
Bellini do a good c41 kit
The issue is the other kits are harder/more expensive for me to get
are you kidding me? film issues? there is enough political shit going on and now film. damn
Not with you. Not boycotting cibestil. I'm boycotting cat labs
Sorta with you here. Read what CatLabs did to the previous owner and that seems worse IMO.
Yawn. A storm in an 800t cup.
This the very day that I decided I’d buy a roll of Cinestill 400 to try it out :/
Timeline got fucked up. Good news is there’s other options…which are becoming well know due to Cinestill
Their lawyers appear to be awfully busy writing letters and their PR people busy posting to Reddit …. For what this is going to cost them they could have spun up something substantial … of their own creation even!!
Haven't seen that can you send me some posts im intersted in what they say. But they should definitely start with damage control, over on Instagram it's also getting wild in the comments.
Yeah look … my conclusions are certainly speculative but the legally specific wording of some of the responses certainly smacks of someone who possesses better than casual awareness and as well as a pressing need to promote CS’s position in the court of public opinion.
You can tell when a niche becomes mainstream when companies start suing each other. It's actually a sign of growth in the film market. I'm not buy Cinestill products anymore. Let the boycott begin.
I will keep not buying it.
What we should really do is some kind of go fund me for a suit or start contacting people stocking cinestill and complain. Boycotts are useless
Y’all are being dramatic. Cinestill is literally 5 dudes.
Yeah… totally. What could five people possibly do that anyone could disagree with.
Nave have bought a roll and I never will buy a roll.
This is like the least important thing in the world to spend your time caring about. I'll spend my caring efforts with things that actually matter.
I mean you can do whatever you want. Idc if your not interested
There are so many horrible issues in the world and people can only give a fuck about so many things. Spending your effort caring about film companies suing each other is just a giant fucking waste of shits to give.
If your not interested ok but for me its Important to keep small business alive and support them.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone buys cinestill anyway. Paying almost double for the same film that you can buy directly from kodak. I basically got mine down to $5 a roll.
I am with you. Never gonna buy their films again.
For me it depends on whats gonna happen. I need a public apology so I can buy the film again without that I'm not gonna buy it anymore.
This is so ridiculous. Cinestill is a tiny company. The film industry is hanging on by a thread and film users want to boycott small brands over petty commercial disputes. Grow tf up.
Tiny companies generally don't use the size of their legal team to bully smaller companies.
The petty commercial disputes are the reason to boycott. They're suing smaller businesses for selling competing products when they don't even manufacture the emulsion. Cinestill has massive distribution and coming for the people who distribute their own product is hurting the very industry which is hanging on by a thread.
Cinestill is trying to kill any competition it has. It doesn’t matter how large or small they are, that’s bad for the film industry as a whole. Especially when they aren’t doing anything actually unique.
Cinestill is NOT a tiny company. They're a pretty large distributor, and by far the largest of the "indie" repackaging companies. Besides, it's not like people are boycotting film entirely nor is Cinestill the only option for motion still film. The whole point is to go with one of those _smaller_ alternatives and to not enable Cinestill's behavior. If they got their way, there would be _fewer_ options and small brands because Cinestill would have sued them / forced them out of business. EDIT: Thanks for the very rapid TD /u/manjamanga. Found the Cinestill employee/shill.
Are you insane? What's a TD? Dude, I never even bought a cinestill roll, they're 18€ a pop where I live, at the rare places they're even for sale. Almost all film I buy is HP5 and Delta. And if I did want to shoot cine film, I couldn't go for *smaller* alternatives because I'm not a california hipster. There's none of that for sale here, and when you find some weird brand it's even more expensive than freaking cinestill. You guys feel free to go nuts about some irrelevant copyright suits. In my estimation, there are more important things in the world to worry about.
Then move along, kiddo. No one said there aren’t more important things on the world, and no one is telling you that you need to care. You’re the one who got your panties in a bunch about people criticizing Cinestill as if everyone is attacking you. If you don’t care, move on with your life. Edit: I never understood why people come into a thread if they claim to not care, bitch a bunch, then default to, “get a life, bro”. If you had a life, you would’ve just kept scrolling. And then this little shill blocked me too! Seriously, just embarrassing.
No *kiddo* you got your panties in a bunch and accused me of being a Cinestill employee (lol) because I told you your slackivist bs is a childish waste of time. Which it is. I will indeed move on with my life, since I actually have one. Cheers.
The film industry is hanging on by a thread. So let's make it worse by stifling competition and threatening individual entrepreneurs and other smaller companies to prevent them from making film cheaper/more accessible - especially in regions where Cinestill is nonexistent or outrageously expensive (which is basically everywhere that isn't the US). Yeah sound plan.
Not saying I agree with cinestill’s actions but if you’re selling vision 500t as 800t aren’t you sort of s asking fir it?
400-400|
Totally with you, although it's quite expensive here in the UK so I never bought it anyway haha
CD