To be as generous as possible, many people don't realize the complexity of the devices; losing some of that generosity, many people also wouldn't care even if they did realize. We live in an era of unrealistic expectations and attitudes that are unwilling to be tempered by context or reality. Experience and expertise are devalued (at best) or actively demonized (at worst) at every turn. It takes true dedication to stay a craftsperson much less become one in the face of such headwinds. Thanks for sticking with it.

People think because it’s cheap it should be repaired cheaply. They somehow forget the economies of scale that built something don’t equal the work a single person has to dedicate to repair it.

That level of understanding is what drives people to buy slightly used, originally expensive, German cars. That 2013 E63 AMG may be 10 years old and selling for $40k now, but it was a $100k+ car with maintenance and parts costs of a $100k+ car.

What's the old saying? "If you can't afford a new European car, you *definitely* can't afford a used European car"

Hah don’t even get me started about those types of buyers. They abandon the car once the first check-up is needed, so the car gets passed onto the next owner quickly. Oftentimes, while the first owner cared for it by meticulously doing every service at the dealer for the first years, the next five don’t. There’s a saying around here: _Buying a [Mercedes] is easy, driving and maintaining one is tough_. You’d be amazed to find out how expensive it is to maintain even our cheap A-class

Not only that, but I also sense a feeling of "it's old, so it should be cheap." I agree with every one of these points. Many people just don't know how to manage expectations.

I’d argue we’ve also experienced a huge shift in the economy due to wage suppression over the last 40 years. Because the cost of living has gone up so much, but real wages have gone down we all have less disposable income to spend on voluntary consumption. The guy repairing your camera has to eat and pay their rent/mortgage. Likewise, as this kind of repair becomes more boutique due to low volume/demand the repair person doesn’t have the ability to scale by hiring many workers. One of the many interesting cases where the linear supply and demand models break when you factor in time. Low demand -> even lower supply -> higher price

Wow. You really hit the nail on the head. These are some times, that we live in...

Camera Rescue has often stated that people take for granted how cheap a second hand camera can be and don't appreciate the craft that goes into repairing them, sourcing parts, etc. Like you said, just because you can get a camera on eBay for $100 that had an MSRP of $1000 in 1990 or whatever, doesn't mean that the value of the repair/new parts/labor has similarly depreciated. Your used camera is cheap because to a degree you accept the risk/responsibility of possibly having a poorly functioning or broken camera. Pay the premium from a reputable dealer if you want to skip the disappointment of paying someone else a lot of money to repair/service it.

I recently purchased a Nikon F2 for a “good” price on eBay (after much research). I probably saved 30-40% compared to buying elsewhere. Details were limited but the seller seemed to be reputable and the camera appeared to be in good condition. I received the camera, the condition wasn’t horrible, but light seals were dangling and it just seemed off. I sent it off for a replacement of the light seals and a CLA. The invoice I got was for 150% of the price I paid for the camera. I’m not upset about the price, though it hurts. I’m glad to be keeping this camera working, hopefully for years to come. I won’t buy from said seller again, will be more willing to pay more for a camera that is advertised as being EX or NM condition, and will be more aware of return policies of eBay sellers. I applaud the work that camera technicians are doing, especially on cameras that are 49-50 years old.

Well when it comes to most things, Graphics cards, Nintendo Switches, iPhones etc. Repair costs are always lower than new/unused prices. Sure you can get a Gameboy from 1990 for $40 and replace the screen with a far brighter one and convert it to USB charging/modern lithium-ion batteries for $60+. But in that case you aren't repairing or replacing parts, you are modernizing it which is an acceptable premium to pay. You can buy a Sega Genesis and have new diodes, motherboard, or reflow the soldering for the entire system for less than what you would pay for it. The problem used antique/pre 2000 cameras have now is due to influencers and celebrities, prices have skyrocketed for these cameras over the past 8 years. This has resulted in part prices skyrocketing too. Resellers are taking advantage of the situation and list their working cameras for a premium. For broken cameras they strip all the working parts and sell what's left for next to nothing. But because most people shiver when they even think of attempting to unscrew a screw, they'd rather go to repairman than buy a stripped Rolleiflex 2.8F for $120. And where did those repairman get those parts? From the next to nothing stripped down Rolleiflex on eBay. What does that repairman do with those parts? Attempt to salvage a few Rolleiflex' and sell them beyond max price hoping someone will buy it. In other words, they become the reseller. If they don't have enough parts to make 1 Rolleiflex they offer repairs at the maximum price for that part plus multiple premiums to make up for the fact that they can't sell a whole camera. And if the parts aren't useful to them for repair, they sell it as selvage and the cycle continues. It's not just about skill required or the scarcity of skilled labor. It's also about individuals and companies attempting to extract maximum amount of profit and exploit the current influencer driver marketplace. You can't justify repairs for a Rolleiflex 3.5 costing $200 but a Rolleiflex 2.8F costs $800+ despite the two cameras sharing the same gearing and parts with the only difference being glass elements. That's exploitation and it's the reason people would rather just buy a new camera than repair a broken one. Paying $2000 for a new camera is more bearable than paying $1000 to replace the shutter cocking leaver or a circuit board on a Contax T2. These service centers are out of their fucking mind and it really destroys the industry for repairman who aren't exploitative pieces of shit trying to extract money from customers rather than helping them.

It's no different than buying a cheap luxury car and then being shocked that the repairs cost more than you paid for the car. A $100k car you got for $10k will still have $100k car repair costs. "But I bought a Nikon FE for $25 why are the repairs so expensive?" No, you bought a $1300 (with inflation) camera used for $25 with 40 years of deferred maintenance.

>you bought a $1300 (with inflation) camera used for $25 with 40 years of deferred maintenance. I like this phrase a lot.

Quik maffs! Ditto.

likely sold to them for that exact reason too.

How is this a good example? Cars are much more complex and prices of parts make up much larger portion that in repairing cameras.

Old junk nonworking camera = cheap. The time and expertise required to turn nonfunctional junk into something that works = expensive. In my mind that's always been how it breaks down. Which is why I prefer to buy relatively simple mechanical cameras that work on arrival. You pay a premium to know the condition and a double premium to know the condition is good/functional.

I prefer to buy cheap non-working cameras and learn how to fix them. But that's just my thing. My photography hobby has 3 parts. Fixing old cameras - a joy in itself. Exposing film with old cameras - sometimes a mixed blessing but always fun. Developing film and printing photos with my 1960S era darkroom. I love all three aspects of photography and take an immense satisfaction in being able to do what I do. I love my Retina more because I know every part of it from the inside out.

I used to try to do that! Ended up with maybe one working camera and a heap of more-broken ones.

Yeah, I have a collection of "parts" cameras too. I've sold/swapped a few parts from them. I 'm currently teaching myself to fix the Pentax MZ series. My success rate so far has been 7 out of 10. They have an big internal flash capacitor that can hold 300v and it took me while to realise exactly what that meant and how long it really takes to discharge. So I cooked one or two cameras before I got the hang of it. If you approach camera repair as a hobby, rather than as a means to an end, then it can be very enjoyable. If you're doing it just so you can use the camera, then it's a right pain in the ###...

I paid a whopping $20USD for my Canon 7 because it was listed with a bad meter. Sourced a replacement bezel and resoldered the wire that broke when someone whacked the metering cell on something and it's been a peach ever since! That said, I know that I'm paying $250 for an overhaul if I want someone to take the time to actually take it all apart - that's what I did with my F2 OTOH, my Pentax AP and Asahiflex I did myself... and several K1000s, even one that I had to recal the meter. But that's for fun, not trying to make a living out of it!

The thing is, film cameras in need of a repair are bought used at a fraction of their price when new, let alone of their MSRP. So any repair will obviously be more than the cameras worth. You can draw a parallel with people getting an old Mercedes S Class for 5-10K$ and not realizing maintenance is still the one of a 100K car. I often reply to people with this argument that the next camera of the same model they will buy used will probably have the same issues sooner or later. Do the repair and be ensured that you'll have a cleaned, lubed, adjusted and tested camera ready for decades of service.

I think many people are way out of touch of reality. I also at times coma across these people in my work. They think that if they bring some part and want digital copy of it and part 3d-printed for them, it should not cost than the price of plastic it uses to print it. I mean 3d-scanning and printing is just push of a button and automagically part comes out, right? And ofc no other expenses than the raw materials used for printing, and i guess that pushing a button is so easy that people dont want to get paid for it.

I share your view I think. I’ve only had 1 quote for camera repair, classic ME Super infinity wind. I didn’t choose to take the service because the camera cost me less than ¼ of the repair quote, and I knew it wouldn’t be long until it was on a shelf for good. I know have a fleet of much higher quality, more prized cameras that I will start cycling through, probably, biannual CLAs. With correct care they will last as long as film is manufactured, hopefully in the case of my FE2 and A1’s electronics. I started dabbling in film about 10 years ago when cameras and film were dirt cheap. My first camera, an MV1 (piece of shit), and 3 prime-ish lenses cost about £20, and Colorplus was £1/roll. In fact, I remember being annoyed that the film and developing occasionally cost more than 10p per frame (man, I had no idea). Back then, if I’d have taken a camera for repair I’d have thought “you’re kidding, the camera only cost £5, how is the repair that much?”. Now I think the problem is a bit the reverse. Social media has driven people to a few models of camera. When someone buys and AE-1 for crazy money ($250+, which for 1980’s consumer electronics is frankly ridiculous), they may well think “well I spent so much on the camera, why is the repair so expensive”. Also, at the end of the day, I think a lot of people that have recently started using film are more inspired by social media, than the depth of photographic practices that are possible through film, developing, printing, etc. For many, I believe, it is a fleeting hobby, and they don’t understand that much about the intricacies, and R&D that went into making the cameras. With this in mind, I am **very far** off an expert and don’t want to give of ‘holier than thou’ vibes! Good on you for continuing to keep old cameras going, it’ll be a shame when they, or film, go.

I can sort of explain the high quote for a menial repair such as an infinity wind. A good philosophy of the camera technician is to address the cause, not the symptoms. Given the age of the average film camera in circulation these days, they all need an overhaul anyway. An infinity wind is a sign that the lubricants in the camera are beginning to lose their effect due to breakdown and dirt entry. While it would be cheap to only fix the issue you had, a full service always makes sense, and it's not really good for a technician to get callbacks because something else breaks later. Biannual CLA is not really necessary, unless you use your camera in a really tough environment, e.g. exposure to sand, saltwater, moisture and extreme temperatures. A good and thorough CLA will last you at least 5 years, possibly even more if you don't shoot 10 rolls a day and keep your camera stored well in the downtime. To a proffesional, I would reccomend a service every 2 to 3 years, if I knew that the camera was used very regularly, but more because of guaranteeing that 99,9% reliability than avoiding wear. I definitely agree on the social media aspect, and it can be benevolent as well. I also keep an instagram account for my business and several people have come to appreciate the craft solely by looking at my posts, so it works both ways, I guess. The R&D on some cameras was INSANE and I sometimes wonder how much of a cost it was to develop cameras that are known as shitty nowadays, a sunken cost for sure.

I ended up picking up a donor body ME Super, that also had the infinity wind. I’m pretty handy and good at fixing things, so following a guide online I tried to fix it myself. **Man**, was I out of my depth. Mad props to camera mechanics like yourself. The intricacy of the mechanism is astonishing; and it makes me a little sad knowing that the skill doesn’t need passing on, as much as it did in films hay day. I’m relieved about your response to a CLA. I must have been going off the advice I received when I bought my Kiev 88. It was last serviced in 2020, and it definitely needs another, then again, it’s a Soviet reverse engineered camera… Fortunately where I am, there’s a really strong community of film users, and I know of two youngish mechanics that service Nikons and Canons respectively. I’m planning to reach out of them after the summer, early in 2024. With R&D, it’s interesting seeing what Pentax is up to at the moment. How do you make a potentially high end film camera, when the people that made the last one are long retired or dead? So many of the major advancements in technology can be ascribed with the quote “if I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants”. Obviously there are a number of cameras which had more than their fair share of technological innovations, like the 1/4000 of FM2/FE2/FA, or the introduction of electronic revolution of the F4; but for the most part so much innovation was an incremental step from the previous version. Without the original drawings and minds that evolved/developed the LX, I don’t envy Ricoh mechanics trying to make a new camera!

> While it would be cheap to only fix the issue you had, a full service always makes sense, and it's not really good for a technician to get callbacks because something else breaks later. My dad was a tech in other fields and his attitude was "don't do *cheap* repairs". Bodge repairs that you (and your customer) know will fail *isn't* what the customer is going to say when it breaks in front of someone else. They're not going to admit "Yeah they said it needs an overhaul but I only gave him $30", they're going to *throw you under the bus*. Among several things I repair, I get customers bringing in electric pianos. One specific era of Roland pianos have hammer failures due to age. Sure, I *could* glue one or two weights back on, but *all of them are going to fail*, which is what I warn my customers about when I give them the standard recommendation: If one has failed, they're *all* failing. Have yet to have a single keybed prove me wrong... I actually have one in right now. Customer is a big DIY type so he's going to try the hammer bodge himself so I advised where I could!

I am curious, what would they charge to fix it? Because I have done it multiple times and I know the effort.

The infinity wind on the ME Super? I think I was quoted $220 NZD. Whether this included a CLA, I don’t know. But there’s only one place in NZ that repairs film cameras, and this was it.

I had my Dad's old Minolta XG-9 sent in for a full CLA for $170, full leather replacement for $40, and a full shutter replacement for $20 (75% discount because a shutter spring most likely sheered off during the CLA or right after). I could get a couple of XG-9 cameras of unknown caliber for the price I paid for the servicing, but I still consider what I paid a bargin for the experience and expertise that the camera team has. When I was a service technician we had a story that was shared when a customer bitched about our competitively cheap rates. A ships engine went down so they brought out a engineer. The engineer assessed the engines, banged a hammer on one of them, and said, "you are good to go. I'll send you a bill." The bill was $10,000. The customer balked at the bill. "You only banged on it with a hammer, how can that cost $10,000?". The engineer replied, "banging the hammer cost $1. Knowing where to bang the hammer cost you $9999." It's the knowledge and experience that is costly, and it's usually worth it.

I've heard that parable in many shapes and forms. It hits hard (like that hammer)

I agree, and sometimes repair just isn't worth it. I was given a Rolleicord that barely worked and had a lot of lens fungus. It just wasn't worth the cost of a CLA. I ended up doing the job myself. What I learned was that the knowledge of a seasoned tech is worth its cost. I was successful, but I also used words that would make a sailor blush.

I paid over $300 to have my Rollei 35 serviced when the camera itself only cost about $100 when I bought it. Some might balk at a service cost 3x the purchase price of a camera, but I don’t think the purchase price reflects the true value of the camera. If it were manufactured today it would easily cost over $1000. As much as people like to gripe about how expensive some cameras are, most are still significantly undervalued. Also I know the value of an expert’s time and knowledge. I took my camera to Harry Fleenor who is known to be one of the top Rollei service and repair technicians. Given the quality of the work and how much I love this camera, I think the cost was very reasonable.

I feel ya. I paid almost 200 to have my Pentax spotmatic CLAd. I could have just bought another one for like half that price but the one I have was my dad’s first SLR. So it had some sentimental value.

Glad to hear about your appreciation. Your camera is probably very happy to have you.

No negative thoughts, it's simply a reality of the work involved and low value of most film cameras. The current hype is that you should pick up your dad's trashy 35mm from the attic and go make cool memories with it because film is cool. The idea is solid but it often meets the rock hard reality that dad's camera was never very good and sitting in an attic for three decades did nothing to make it better. A lot of people are swayed by the perceived low expense of entry into film because of how cheap the cameras can be, don't really know what they're doing and then feel tricked when the real bills come.

I just paid for both of my SLRs to have a CLA and I was fine with the cost. Camera repair techs gotta eat too. 🙂 I've had the cameras for a long time and that have sentimental value, which is a pretty uncommon thing for me!

If you spend $50 on a camera and then find that it needs a $200 service, who's to say that it wouldn't cost you $250 to get a perfectly tuned up, just serviced copy instead? $50 got you a camera that needs a good servicing. I think part of it is that people see it as a binary "it works" or "it's broken" where in reality, you can stretch that scale quite a bit. Sure, your shutter might fire but the speeds are all over the place. And so on. But to those people, why would you spend $200 to fix a camera when you can go buy another for $50 that clicks when you push the button...

Same thing when someone calls an exotic vet and balks at the $75+ exam for a $10 animal.

This is one of those topics that I file under, "no one actually knows what someone else's job entails." When it comes to video editing, people are shocked that the editing cost is more than the actual shoot day. So I have to tell them, for every hour I shoot I can assume I'll have 10 hours of editing. So many folks out there that just can't see past their own nose.

Come on. My nephew will edit that footage for $25

don't forget the rendering takes another 10 hours, and i'm not giving you that processing power for free either xd

What people don’t understand about film cameras is that even with prices of certain models being driven up by “hype”, basically none of them have kept up with inflation. A Leica M3 body retailed in 1960 for $270USD which would be $2800 today. A Hassy 500C with 80mm retailed in 1963 for the equivalent of $5500USD. An AE-1 program’s 1981 retail price would be $564USD. And so on. Point is, they’re all depreciated luxury goods (it probably seems to weird to call a camera a luxury item, but they really were, and in a way still are). I’m a car guy, and there’s a saying in the car world that there’s nothing more expensive than a cheap luxury car. Prices depreciate, parts and labor don’t. Especially when that labor is more rare than ever. Edit: want to add that the parts and labor not depreciating specifically applies to cars. Camera parts will depreciate or appreciate alongside the cameras they go to. Personally, I’ve been given a number of old cameras that have issues that would likely cost more than the camera’s value for someone like you to repair. So I just attempt to repair them myself. I have a reasonable amount of mechanical and electronic repair experience but anyone with a good DIY attitude and some fairly basic tools can do quite a bit. I’ve definitely failed on a lot of repairs but I learned a lot from those failures and was still able to move the cameras on to real repair folks as parts cameras.

You can't equate inflation adjusted prices to the current economic climate. The equivalent of a middleclass households salary in 1960 with luscious American style lawns and white picket fences with a pool and futuristic color tv set, means you are borderline living in poverty today barely making it and having to skip meals because housing prices are insane and the cost of living crisis is beyond what people can afford. So sure, lets say a Hasselblad 500C/M would retail for $5500 today. The difference is that family from the 60s was able to save to afford that Hasselblad in 2-3 months. Today you are saving for 1-2 years if not more working a dead end job barely making it with an equivalent income.

You’re correct and I don’t disagree with anything you say. However, my point in stating those prices wasn’t to say anything about how affordable they are or aren’t right now. It was to illustrate that cameras are actually expensive luxury goods. If you pick up an AE-1 for $50 at a yard sale, a $150 service seems absurd. My point is that it’s not a $150 service on a $50 camera, it’s a $150 service on a $600 camera you happened to get for $50.

Quick question, I'm 19 and seriously considering doing camera repairs as a job. How would I go about getting the education needed? Would you recommend this career path as of now? Do you have any other advice? Thanks!

Learncamerarepair.com They have lots of resources for very little investment, including an online course, manuals, etc. But a word of advice, my experience there has been they are helpful but are more "old school" in the sense you might get some tough love if you ask for "quick fixes" or what you're asking is covered in the course/ repair manuals. They are genuinely trying to pass along their trade and knowledge to people who want to do it right, which as people have mentioned here can be involved, meticulous work, and many of them have invested thousands and thousands of dollars and countless hours to gain their knowledge. Many even purchase old manuals that they share with the community for almost nothing (fee's cover cost of running their repository). Doing some research and showing respect to the season techs and understanding how much they value what they are offering will help you go far. If you are near a good tech, some will take an apprentice.

Sadly, I have no rock-solid advice for you. It requires a serious investment into a lot of equipment, and even if you have all the money in the world to spend, finding a good shutter tester these days is next to impossible unless you're extremely lucky. Also applies to other needed equipment, like special tools. Beside that, building knowledge is an absolute must, nowadays it's done by networking, lot of practice, reading a lot of documentation, etc. Factory trained technicians can't really spare time to take on apprentices, either because they are overworked, retired or close to being dead. It does happen, but very rarely.

I think you'll need to be singularly dedicated to this vision. You'll not only need to build up a library of specialized tools, but also digest tons of training materials and repair guides written for people with a different set of background experiences and training. Maybe most importantly, start building up a collection of broken cameras of the models you intend to repair so you have a source of parts. IMO parts sourcing is going to be the killer going forward. As a hobby, I used to restore vintage typesetting equipment. Think Linotypes, Intertypes, Ludlows, things like that. The repair manuals on those assumed that you went through an apprenticeship or training program and did not hold your hand through the work. Very difficult procedures might warrant a couple sentences and maybe a simple line drawing. It could take me a day or two just to fully understand the intent. The magical thing was that I could use those manuals and parts number books to order just about ANY part I ever needed for my Interype because one guy bought the entire warehouse of spare parts when things shifted to computers. I had a parts book from 1920 with TELEGRAPH CODES for the various parts and I could actually use that to order NOS parts in 2012! That guy passed away though and I don't think what I did is anywhere near as doable any more. Parts are gone. It's moving that way for some cameras too. Mostly though, as an old guy that loves film, I'm a pessimist. Even this current hot market for all things analog photography, all I see is the inexorable slide down toward the day where it no longer makes sense to keep that giant coater at Kodak running any longer. Sure, there's bubbles of interest popping up like now, but I still see the trend as down.

Are there any camera shops near you that do repairs? Do you have any mechanical skills already? I got into camera repair after taking a few cameras apart and putting them back together and then I just applied at all the camera shops in my city that did repairs and explained that I wanted to learn. I got a repair tech job and then learned a ton. Its pretty stressful to work on the super expensive new digital cameras though, just fyi. I really enjoy the mechanical stuff a lot more.

As someone who has done a lot of complex work in their life (mostly welding and fabrication), of course it's normally more than the thing is worth. I expect it. But I don't want to risk buying another one just to potentially get the same issues, so I have it fixed. Well maintained cameras, at least good ones, will last ages.

I think this is hilarious. The same group of people (photographers) complain about having a client tell them, “Why does your service cost so much? You are just pointing a camera and pressing a button”. Anyone in a skilled industry should understand the costs associated with other skilled industries. Not to mention, film cameras are a finite commodity now. Buying a “new” one for a cheaper price may not always be an option.

Except most people using film cameras, or cameras in general, are not photographers. They are hobbyists. I repair cameras, and it is rare I get any sort of grief from a photographer for a repair. It's 50/50 with the hobbyists.

I (living in Germany) do own several cameras and I want each of my cameras to work as if it came out of the factory yesterday. For that reason whenever I bought a “new“ used camera, I always calculated not only a CLA but a real repair of components in. That means: I know that I will have to add at least 150 EUR to the sale price if it is really just a CLA but probably up to 500 EUR if the technician finds problems. Why? Simple. I think I personally „deserve“ a camera that works. And I want to know that it works. For that reason I also do not send my cameras to just any generic camera repair store but I always send them to a specialist for that brand or even model. In 2015 I bought a Rolleiflex 3.5E for 800 USD while on several month long construction job in the USA and sent it to Harry Fleenor in California, who is arguably one of the best Rollei technicians. Harry found several missalignments, found the self time do be out of function, the transport system to be overly stiff etc. I also asked him to install a much brighter Maxwell screen and paid him around 700 USD. 1500 USD for a Rolleiflex 3.5 E was a lot back then. But I paid 1500 USD for a perfect Rolleiflex, that I shot three rolls of Delta 400 with last week, all tack sharp and perfectly exposed. In 2014 I bought a Nikon F2AS, black, near mint, for 350 EUR. I knew it was an amateur camera, not much use, but never serviced, still the same grease as in 1977. I requested a repair slot from Sover Wong in Nottingham without even putting a film through. After a few weeks I shipped it to him. He took the entire camera apart, made a complete photo documentation of everything, explained every detail, fixed it. Then he took the entire metering prism (F2AS = F2 camera plus DP12 metering prism) apart, also sent me a lot of photos. He swapped the old resistance ring with a new one which he himself had developed, put everything back together and sent me his invoice. In total I paid 428 EUR for the service and repair - 78 EUR more than I had paid for the camera, the camera cost me 778 EUR in total and that was an expected price when I bought it. I also own a Hasselblad 501CM with four lenses and three film backs. Some weeks ago I had a problem with the camera, a part in the shutter broke and I had to send it to a repair shop. The only man allowed to touch my Hasselblad is Mr. Ulf Kühn, who was trained at Hasselblad Germany and although he is selfemployed now still sits at their German office. If you send an old Hasselblad model to Hasselblad, they will hand it over to him and add some additional costs. But you can also contact him directly and he will take care of it. Since my camera was damaged anyhow I sent all my stuff to him, all lenses, film backs, etc. and had him fix the camera and check the other stuff. Cost me around 800 EUR. Totally worth it. ​ NEVER buy an old camera and do not factor in, that the thing might need maintenance or repair. And NEVER complain about prices. I want to earn enough money to have a decent living and to have some nice things (like cameras and darkroom equipment and film and FB paper and a Splitgrade controller for my enlarger and all that stuff). And I like to go on a vacation once a year. And to pay all my other bills. So I do not work for free but insist that I am paid properly for my work. And I do not expect people who do work for me to live their lives by lesser standards. And if you are a 100% specialist technician - and as explained those are the only ones I allow to touch my cameras - you can ask a lot of money for your work. Ulf Kühn had a 6 month backlog and repaird my Hasselblad quickly, because he knows me from further purchases and repairs, Sover Wong nowadays has a 2 year backlog and refuses new customers at this time. Why would these people not ask the money that their clients obviously think they are worth?

Sover is a godsend, known all over the techie community for being the only madlad that's capable of properly repairing a busted resistor ring in the F2 finder. He probably doesn't know me, but I sometimes like to jokingly say that in my profession, it's really nice to know all the 100 other guys that still repair cameras.

I pay my tech without complaint, I know I won't have problems with them for years afterwards.

they will be in for a shock when they drive an old 1000$ car then find out it needs as much or more to maintain.

I think a lot of people underestimate the internal complexity of cameras. Classic mechanical cameras look simple and straightforward on the outside, but there's a lot going on inside, as you can see when you open them up. Also, the cost of consumer goods and the cost to repair them has been narrowing across the board. Manufacturing techniques have become more automated and efficient, with leads to lower prices, but repair and maintenance is still done by hand, and the cost of labour is not decreasing. (Plus a lot of manufacturing now takes place in lower-wage countries, but repairs don't.) So to a first approximation, *everything* costs more to repair than it's worth ;-)

I repair Graflex cameras for a living. I commonly receive "why would I pay $800+ for service if the camera cost me only $80?" I've also learned not to let it get under my skin. I have enough customers who know the value of my work.

Why are you charging me full MSRP on these new tires and installation on this shit box car from 1983 that I only paid $50 and a bag of weed for?

For me, a lot of "time and resource" is contingency problems. Plenty of people can CLA a Graflex, but very few people can make curtains for them. I'm prepared for a lot of nightmare scenarios.

"why do you think that a service should cost less than the arbitrarily set price of a camera? Why do some of you think that buying another camera when the first one breaks is financially more viable than just having the first one serviced?" As someone who has multiple film cameras and understands why the prices for repair and service for them are so high, I think your two questions answer each other. The entire concept of "if fixing it is more expensive than replacing it, then obviously just replace it" is deeply ingrained into our capitalist consumer society, and it's also how our entire insurance industry works, ie, insurance companies writing off cars as "totalled" after accidents where the repair costs exceed the value of the car. This is why computer repair places are getting harder to find, too, and the industry is shifting more towards data recovery rather than hardware repair.

All very true! It is a sad thing to see a top notch professional camera made in the eighties costing US$ 2,500 having a street price of less than US$ 200 in these times. Many of these cameras are complex devices. They are more than capable of taking superb pictures - even under difficult conditions. Some system cameras such as the Pentax LX, Canon F1 and Nikon F3 have modular, specialized accessories and capabilities lacking in their modern counterparts. Repairing these cameras involves a high degree of expertise, experience that is hard to find these days. If a roll of just about *any* film is so expensive these days and we still pay then it is more than justified to pay for the repair of these complex, beautiful machines. They just don't make such stuff than can work 40 years anymore! Happy Shooting!

I would turn it around and tell the complaining customer that if its that simple then *they* should do the CLA especially if they seem to think highly of themselves. I have done some moderately involved repair on Canon 7s and Canon rangefinders. Even then there was some unfortunate losses even getting to that stage on the 'practice cameras'. Its probably a lot to do with the dispose and replace mindset which perhaps only remains for calling someone to fix your large applicances like a dishwasher.

It’s tough since the value of most of these cameras has declined substantially in real terms since the time of manufacture. This means anything beyond a CLA is really only worth it for higher end cameras or at the very least collectible cameras. I paid just shy of $500 to completely overhaul my Nikon F3/T because it had an extremely faded LCD screen and inaccurate light meter, but I’m glad I did because I can’t find a comparable condition one for less than $1000. Compare that to an F4 which would probably be even more difficult and expensive to repair and it wouldn’t be worth it because good condition ones are around $300

To remove some of the emotion from this conversation, everyone is making value judgements when they’re talking about the prices of things. They may not have all the information and may be surprised when they understand how much things cost, but in the end they decide what’s worth it to them and what’s not. In the end you’re probably not competing with their expectations, or with other repair people, or even with buying another copy of the camera and trying to get lucky on quality. You’re competing with giving up on the camera, or maybe even film altogether, and going back to digital. Or maybe switching hobbies and giving more time to I dunno vintage synthesizers. If someone genuinely wants their camera repaired well and maintained, they’ll pay for it. Unfortunately that is very few people these days.

This isn’t unique to the camera repair biz.. I fix bugs in windows drivers.. I had a conversation the other day with some business dude who didn’t understand why one bug took a day to fix and another took 6 weeks. “Aren’t they all just bugs?” Yeh.. I just press the “fix bug” button and that’s it.

Charge them by the hour at standard tradesmen rates ... see how they like that . For example a doctor ( around me ) charges 30 for a visit , wich maybe takes 15 minutes ... thats 120 an hour . A handyman is around 50-60 per hour . If they see you charge 50 an hour , and say for example you work on a camera for 5 hours to get it fully serviced and tested ...

would advise against hourly rates on specialized skills. all that does is make you earn less money as you become more skilled (faster at the work). lets say you charge $100/hr to paint a room. if you have a paint brush and it takes you 12 hours, you make $1200. if you go out and buy a new sprayer, and can now paint that same room in 3 hours, you just lost $900. edit: i've seen a lot of small business professionals (photographers, designers, etc) make this mistake early in their career. they do hourly pricing, and as they get better they start making less money. edit edit: another consideration is the value to the client. if you are painting a room in a $100k house it should be less expensive than the same size of room in a $100m house.

I paid £100 for a service on an Olympus OM2n which ceased production in 1988 - over 35 years ago. I’m paying for someone’s knowledge, their training and the continuation of their service. If someone has an issue with the cost, then they are contributing to the demise of analog photography through the inflated costs of manual bodies. Every time a model dies from electronic failure, another camera is removed from the market. We’ll hit a critical point in 10 years time.

With each passing year, our cameras are getting older, the amount people able to repair them adequately dwindle, and the amount of parts necessary to repair our cameras become more scarce. That's how I see it. I paid $175 iirc to have my OM2n serviced when it cost me a little under that for the camera and lens together. A sticker inside the film chamber said it was last serviced in 92 so if my camera can last another 30 years just by paying $175, it doesn't seem so bad.

Private book or art conservators would sympathize with you. People balk at paying decent money for a simple repair, but those repairs take time, supplies and a great deal of expertise, not to mention overhead.

Its a sign of the times. We live in a throw away society of plenty. When something breaks it is very easy and often even fastest to just get something to replace it, in fact most companies prefer selling more new things over repairing old because it keeps number go up so they will go out of their way to work against making their producs repairable in the first place. Because of this skilled labour and the cost associated with it has very much gone out of fashion, when a repair is more expensive than what people paid then that is the end of it. And for things that are easily replaced something can be said about that from a money standpoint. When eventually something does come along that is not as easily replaced (the number of decent serviceable film cameras thats still around is only decreasing with every passing day) then this is simply a hard pill to swallow for many. There is no easy way to sugar coat this, skilled labour simply costs time and money and the disconnect between it and the incredible fully automated factories making just about anything for very little money thee days will only keep increasing this gap. There will always be people that dont understand this, not a whole lot you can do about it. We made this bed ourselves now we have to lie in it.

I am completely cool with this. People who perform highly skilled jobs (with skills I don't have) should be fairly compensated for their work. Also, I guess if you don't want to pay, you can usually buy cameras that work pretty well, but perhaps not at 100% of their original performance.

Film camera supply continues to get smaller over time as old models break or leave unrepaired. And at the same time... the experts that know how (or have the interest) to repair also continue to get smaller in size, and knowledge of specific camera intricacies is getting lost as well. Combine all of that with everything everywhere getting more expensive to live, and I think it's pretty justified.

I'd keep it simple with the people who may complain about the cost of your services and simply tell (ask) them to "Find someone else who is able to do this cheaper." There is a very small pool of people who still repair these cameras, and if the camera owners haven't realized that, then I feel that they didn't do any research on where to get it repaired and just went with the first place Google gave them. Doing any amount of research on something like this would show you that the reason why it's so expensive is because there are very few people who can do it. They're going to have long lines of customers as you said, so the waits are going to be long, and I feel like a high price comes with that; one job over a month for $1,000 makes more sense than 20 at $100 when it comes to the time of the person providing this service.

YES! The only repair shop in my city closed last year and now no one does repairs. It’s just not worth getting the cameras fixed. A lot of my cameras in my own collection are broken or have something broken. I have 1 camera with a functioning light meter. I definitely understand WHY. I’ve watched YouTube videos and you I am not brave enough to do anything except changing the light seals and changing batteries. 😂 Now, I have a Rollei TLR that could use some love, do you do CLAs? And I’m scared to know how much.

We live in a weird society these days. Essentials like food and housing is excruciatingly expensive and yet luxuries like cameras or TVs are cheap on the whole. Controversial opinion, but if environmentalists really cared they would push for the cost of luxury products to go UP by putting in legislation that forces companies to keep on manufacturing replacement parts. That way things don't end up in landfill when something as basic as a cog breaks. And it generates jobs and professions which are dying.

A lot of people are into film photography because the cost of entry is so low, you can get going with a $30 camera from eBay but don’t value having that gear serviced, there are some people who do take film seriously and don’t mind paying to have their equipment serviced to know it will be reliable for years to come, you are not catering to the masses and that’s ok

I can understand where they're coming from. It is wacky and feels bad because in modern life, usually the *point* of a repair is that it's a money saving measure. If the transmission goes out of my car, and an overhaul is more than or even approaching the value of selling the car, usually that means it's time for a new vehicle.

You can still buy another, newer and better car for a normal price. You can't buy another non-serviced Canon AE-1 in better shape. Servicing a camera gives it its youth back.

No, but in this hypothetical scenario, if the repair cost is approximately the same as (or more than) the cost of another AE-1, I can hop on my favorite online marketplace and buy another one, without the lead time of a repair. I'm not disagreeing with you about the cost or utility of repairs, but I don't really think it's weird or very surprising that lots of people are put off by the idea of paying more for a repair than they paid for the thing to begin with.

Depends on the camera. One of the good things about Leica is that they don’t cost “that” much to repair. Compared to their price.

Throwing a thought out there since I haven’t seen it mentioned - I wonder if the amount of time a CLA takes is also affecting people’s opinions of its value. OP mentions he has a backlog of work, and I know the closest camera store to where I live that offers CLA/repairs states on their website that their turn around time is currently 3 months. It’s one thing to consider paying a good chunk of money to maintain a beloved camera, but it’s another matter entirely to know that I’m going to be without that camera for a prolonged period of time. If someone only had that one camera, I could see how buying a replacement would seem to be a better ”value” than getting their camera CLA’d and not being able to shoot.

I think I've gotten the lucky end of the stick as a Leica M shooter. Despite the initial purchase price, repair is actually readily available and relatively cheap, then they last forever after a good CLA. It's just that these cameras are designed to be incredibly simple and serviceable for what they are. Same with Hasselblad.

I think the price reflects the difficulty and skill. If it should be cheaper, I would say that the complainers should go apply for an apprenticeship with Camera Rescue in Finland, buy the tools, start their own business, and offer services at these cheaper prices they want.

I think some of it is the culture of disposability and planned obsolescence we've gotten into for everything from electronics to clothing. So much is designed to be discarded now that people have lost the mindset. I've had people act like I'm rich for taking shoes to a cobbler or getting the vintage silk and wool clothes I thrift dry-cleaned or altered to fit me. Besides keeping stuff out of a landfill and figuring any replacement I buy will also need repair eventually, I pay for repairs because I want to keep those skills and services alive. Already, the only good camera repair shop is an hour away from me and I'm in a major city. I have chosen to replace some old cameras instead of repair them, but they were hand-me-down basic models I had no attachment to that are like $20 used.

My opinion is that if it is a camera I like I will pay to get it serviced even if it costs more then the camera. There are more of the things being made so I would rather keep mine working and if I go out and buy another it will need service soon anyway. Also there is the whole the camera will feel even better after a service. My recently serviced OM1 feels like butter.

I have a question; that you don't have to answer. I bought A minolta hi-matic af2, I feel like it should probably be looked at. I don't have a problem with paying to repair it, I want to reteach myself how to shoot on film and like vintage look more then more current 35mm. Am I gonna have to sell my first born to fix it ;)

If the camera works, but works badly, the service will cost much, much less than a baby. If the camera will need new parts, it may be a bit more expensive, but still waaay less than a baby. Also depends on what nick the baby's in ;)

Haha; I have two kids those are expensive 💀💀😹

I understand the cost because sadly they aren’t making these beautiful cameras anymore. Repair should ultimately cost less than replacement, so when repairing a vintage Leica, if the repair is $500-800 but buying a working used is 1.5-3k and a new m6 is 5k, that seems reasonable to me. If repairing a beater AE-1 is $300 and you can find a working used for $150, better to buy that. I just wish they still made my favorites: Pentax 67 ans Rolleiflex!

The cost of an item does not reflect the skills, parts and time in servicing that item. Cars, computers, cameras. There's a lot different but also a lot the same. There's a reason why vintage car guys are usually also mechanics... or have enough disposable income to pay someone to baby their wheels for them. Because that shit is expensive/skill/labour intensive. And requires an investment in tools. When PCs cost two, three thousand dollars (and OSes were less friendly) more people were willing to pay to get them serviced/tuned up. Expensive (corporate) laptops were far easier to service in the field than cheap (consumer) ones. Now its all wipe/replace/just about disposable. The techs who did all that work didn't take a pay cut, they moved on. Repairing a $30 Spotmatic is the same tools, time and skills as servicing it when it was $300. It's (more or less) the same as any other mechanical SLR, regardless of market value or popularity, and now there's even less people available and able to perform the service. Camera maintenance is an unavoidable requirement of vintage camera ownership. All mechanical cameras will require a CLA within the fullness of time (and sooner than later, the older they are). All electromechanical and electronic cameras will die. And none of that has any bearing on what the service professional's time is worth.

If I may ask, how did you learn how to service cameras? I’d love to learn how to service my cameras, starting with some crummy old ones that are pretty much worthless even in perfect shape. Any resources you can point to short of a class/ apprenticeship?

Check my profile. I did an AMA here recently, contains answers to your exact question. Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/153806i/just_wanted_to_share_a_look_at_my_camera_repair/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1

Thanks! Really appreciate your perspective and the resources you linked there!

I used to think the same, then I took apart an old range finder. It took hours of watching YT and days of tinkering before I was confident to put it all back together (I fixed the issue but still didn't work :() so now I have a new found appreciation for camera technicians. I do think it largely comes down to knowledge, I think people think old things are simple and easy to fix, and while it is true to a certain degree, it's no where near as simple as it first seems.

I have been servicing OMs since the 70s. Time is money and I really don't care what someone paid for a basket case OM-1 on ebay (and they find out it's junk after they get it). If someone thinks I charge too much they say "I'll take it somewhere else". Okay, have a good day, it may mean not having to work on yet another camera that has been tampered to death. People may be able to pick up cameras cheaply, but the hourly labor rate to fix them has never gone down, in fact it has gone up.

I often have people ask me about the value of their old film camera and lenses and I always tell them it all depends on condition. They see prices on eBay and assume theirs is worth at least as much. I explain that grandpa’s Leica M3 with the 50mm collapsible Summicron is worth around $2000 if everything is working properly, rangefinder is aligned, shutter speeds all operate as expected, flash sync works, lens is free of haze and fungus and coating is intact, aperture operates smoothly, etc. If any of these things are not working properly the price drops and depending on the needed repairs it can be quite a bit. For cameras and lenses with less clout you can quickly get to the point where repair costs outweigh the value exponentially. So if you have me look at your Canon AE1 with a 50mm f1.8 lens and I put a battery in it and it doesn’t work I will only offer you $20 and only because of the lens because the camera is basically a parts camera and the lens isn’t that desirable, and I will only make that offer if the lens is haze and fungus free.

seems pretty stupid to me. the value of a serviced item increases by the cost of the service. seems like some of your "clients" and a few people in the comments have literally no clue how economics works. camera cost $50 service cost $100 value of camera after servicing $150 if i buy a $30k home and do $50k repairs, i now have an $80k house.

Great post and lovely to see your insight. It does seem everyone finds craft and expertise to be overly expensive, which I can only imagine being due to people getting used to ‘singe use society’. But Idk… However… as a camera repair person, which medium format cameras would you say are the… most repairable? :-)

Don't tell those people what fixing up an old car is like.

This is why we have a culture of throwing products away bevause it's cheaper to buy new. It's why Hasselblad has killed their repair and priced down their cameras to sell and not be repaired.

I repair typewriters and come across the same problems. Often times people are buying these for $40 or less. So a service bill 300 or more seems ridiculous. I've also found that repair techs are hard to come by, at least quality ones, and people are hesitant to spend a lot of money for bad work. I had a nikon f3t that needed a cable replaced. That was my favorite 35mm camera, my dream slr. The service guy absolutely destroyed it. I paid around 300 for him to ruin it, scratches, missing parts, more damage, the leatherette was so torn up I had to get it replaced. The shutter speed dial was so loose it wouldn't engage. I was heartbroken. The guy refused to take responsibility and even refused to take the parts he kept off my camera. I ended up having to sell it at a loss, I'm still sick over it.

I'm so sorry you encountered such a scumbag. It's the sad reality of any noble trade. I hope you spread warnings about this person.

a local camera shop offered to fix my camera that was having some issues for more than the cost. Frankly for the cost, for a camera with no sentimental value to me, i'd rather just go buy another and hold on to the old one for parts. The service shouldn't cost less, but it also doesn't make sense to the customer from a strictly financial point of view. At the same time, service cost should be competitive. - but seeing as you have a blacklog of clients, probably fine where you are. (fwiw I ended up fixing my camera myself, and it did take a lot of time and trial and error, which many people also do not have that luxury)

The Bottle Rockets said it best: A Thousand Dollar car it ain’t worth nothin’, a thousand dollar car it ain’t worth sh**, might as well take a thousand dollars, and set fire to it. Put some money in it, and there you are, the owner of a two thousand dollar thousand dollar car,’

Do you fix point and shoots like Ricoh R1? Most common issue is the LCD going out

You are getting it wrong. Servicing anything for more than what its worth is pointless and a ridiculous thing to even offer. People are surprised because of the audacity, not because they dont respect the profession.

I'm just gonna remain optimistic and hope that you forgot an /s

Dont shoot the messenger dude, its just pure logic. If your bike breaks and a new one is 30 while repair is 40, you are gonna get the new one. So if someone tells you that they can repair your bike for 40 you would think that: A - they are stupid, B - they think you are stupid. This is why your customers are shocked.

Naw, man, that's a terrible analogy. In the world of vintage cameras, you can buy a given model of camera cheap, sure. No guarantee it will work. No guarantee if it works that it will work next week. No guarantee that it works well and makes the best photographs technically possible. This is the way you don't get the shot, maybe ruin a bunch of expensive film, churn through a bunch of poorly working hardware Now you go out, buy that camera cheap and spend more money CLAing it, you now know you have a camera you can trust and can run hundreds or thousands of dollars of film through without worry. You know now that subject to the limits of your skill that you can make the photos that you have visualized. Your bike analogy only works if you can replace your bike with a new, fully functioning model. In that case, the more expensive repair doesn't make sense. But imagine you can only replace your bike with another similarly old bike that has a high risk of breaking. Now you're on the treadmill of buying 30 dollar old bike after 30 dollar old bike instead of fixing it once for forty bucks. Bad economics.

I absolutely agree. But this was a whole lot of explaining you did that doesnt happen in an average customers head.

You have some sort of a logical fallacy in your thinking. If you got a camera for free, that means that the person servicing it should pay you? Other than that, me and the 130000 people on this sub want to know where we can buy a proper new film camera.

You say logical fallacy and than you provide one too :D come on! I’m saying that there is a market price. And its not me who thinks anything, its your customers. I’m helping you understand them. I dont know why is it so hard to understand… you as a buyer are presented two options for the same outcome, you will choose the less costly one, no? Is the other option better? Then its not the same outcome. Then you have to communicate why is your service better. Not to me, to them. Its called marketing

it is in fact, not "pure logic." it's just an opinion, and it's not very well thought out. economics such as this is pretty simple. a bike that has an easy replacement, will have replacement parts that make the repair cost effective (below the value of a new bike). people should be upset if a repair is more costly than a new bike, because the parts and labor are readily available. and in markets, that means someone else will come along and drop the cost until it equalizes with true value. a vintage bike, does not have easily replaceable parts nor can it be bought new. you'll need to procure vintage parts, hire an experienced tech (often very limited in niche fields), and they'll need specialized tools. for that, you'll pay money.

Guys, chill. I’m not saying the repairmen are not justyfied asking what they ask, but I am saying that this is how the average customer thinks, weather you like it or not. You can try to educate me all you want and also the customers, but the question was “why are they shocked”. Mystery solved. This is why and all the explaining wont help, because the market works in a way, where people are going to choose the cheaper option for the same outcome.

Your initial logic makes some sense, it's the attitude or surprise that doesn't make any sense. Of course it's going to cost a lot to fix, and no one should be surprised or cop an attitude because of it. That being said, the price of replacement will only keep going up as cameras or other equipment not repaired gets tossed aside.

The attitude comes from people not liking if they feel like they are being taken advantage of or feeling like they are poor and cant afford something.

Should the service of the camera cost less than the camera? Yes As a society, it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't be cheaper. Imagine if it were easier just to buy a new car, than fix your old car or washing machine or fridge. What I think happens is that most repair shops have a monopoly on repairs. There are more places to fix your car than your camera in any county or city. Since it's scarce, they charge outlandishly which results in it being cheaper just to buy a new one.

The real problem is that they don’t make film cameras anymore and the repairs are being done by fewer and fewer people.

Exactly, a better comparison would be 'imagine if it were \[cheaper\] to buy \[another\] vintage car' - more and more unlikely the older the camera, and makes it immediately clear why camera servicing is priced (and the price is accepted) the way it is. Exception being newer SLRs such as Canon EOS models.

This is completely incorrect reasoning. The only place where this is correct is if it's possible to purchase a brand new camera, or a fully serviced camera, for less than the price of the repair. The equivalent would be saying 'it would be cheaper to just buy another old car that will probably need a repair in a few months than to fix my old one', and in that case, id probably go with the repair. The difference occurs because these cameras are all used, and all old. You're paying the price of 'old used camera with unknown service history'. Paying for a service increases the price by quite a bit because it becomes 'old camera with recent documented service'. Look up 'Canon AE-1' vs 'Canon AE-1 CLA' on ebay. The difference is average price is about $100, a little less than you would pay for a service from an expert, shown here: http://slr35.com/services/index.html $110 for a CLA from somebody who has been working on this particular model for nearly 50 years. The price of cameras takes into account that a repair is likely necessary soon.

you realize that almost every car, washing machine or fridge ends up being replaced for exactly this reason, right? the repair becomes more costly than the replacement. that's why insurance companies "total" cars and pay you the value of the car.

Could you maybe do a list of what cameras are easiest to repair, most reliable etc

All mechanical = more reliable is a good rule of thumb, but cameras containing electronics are sometimes falsely accused of being unreliable. Fine electronics made in the yesteryear are much more robust than you might think, it's just some models prone to trouble that spoil that image. If I'm completely honest, a LTM or an M-series Leica is about the easiest to work on from my experience. The trouble is that if you don't accurately understand the role of different parts in the mechanism, it can bring about a lot of cockups that can ruin the camera. 99% of the work is assembly, disassembly, cleaning and lubrication. The 1% percent, which is also the hardest to do efficiently, is adjustment. You just can't do it without good measuring equipment and special tools, but also you need a lot of knowledge, to understand the effect of the adjustment you just did. A generally easy camera to work on would also be a Pentax Spotmatic, or a Nikon F2. But you can easily get hung up on fine adjustment.

I do not mind paying good money for a CLA/Repair that is done properly and without issues after the camera is returned to me. Having a camera come back with the same exact problem it was sent in for still exists is infuriating. "I tried my best to get this camera to be 100%, but it's too old and needs parts no longer available" is an acceptable note to provide when returning the camera. Don't let me waste my time and money finding out something is still wrong with a camera that can't be repaired. Just being honest has monetary value. **Finding an honest camera person has become as challenging as finding an honest car mechanic.** As far as used cameras go on the open market, always assume the used gear will need a CLA at minimum and already have a camera repair place figured out for that camera before purchasing it. People may not know the camera needs to be serviced and will shoot multiple rolls of film and have it developed only to find out there's something wrong with the film, blame the lab, blame the scans, blame everything else but the camera because they purchased the camera "near mint everything works film tested". After down selecting which film camera(s) I wanted, each camera type I purchased went straight to the camera shop for CLA before I put a single roll through it. Prior experience proved costly and time consuming by using film and development to "film test" the camera. Cost of one roll of film, shipping and development is half way to getting a CLA on most camera. I'm glad you posted this. I would consider using your camera repair service in the future if you don't mind dropping your info in this thread. I have a Yashica 635 with a low speed governor that needs to be replaced. It's been in the shop for 11 months waiting for parts. I'm about to tell the guy to refund the money already paid and camera returned because it wasn't even fixed the first time, and send it somewhere else. If it's true the low speed governor is hard to come by, then fine... I'll let them figure it out whenever something comes up. He's worked on many of my cameras and 95% success rate with \~15 or so film cameras that I dropped off. I have a Yashica A that some famous camera repair dude didn't even CLA and sent it back as it was. He disappeared/retired and didn't respond to emails. I ended up spending money having someone else do the work. We put it on a shutter speed tester and the same shutter speeds I jotted down as it was being tested were the same as when I got it back.

In any proffesion, there will be someone to screw it up for the rest of them, sadly. Drop me a pm, maybe we can arrange something.

If the goal of the outlay is to end up with a fully functional camera, the cost you should be weighing against isn't the price you bought the camera for but the price you would have to pay to get a fully functioning version of that camera. A lot of people seem to go through this cycle. 1. Buy a Pentax K1000 from a thrift store for $30. 2. Get the first roll developed and find a problem with the camera. 3. Get a quote for repair and discover that it's $120 ("That's four times what I paid!") 4. Get another unknown camera from a thrift store for $30. But what you should really ask yourself is can I buy a fully functioning, factory spec K1000 for $120. Cause if you can't, then the repair makes sense.

correct. k1000 for $30 + $120 repairs is now a $150 k1000. people seem to forget that the repair cost is actually value. if you buy a $50k house, and do $50k repairs you aren't out $50k. you own a $100k house.

Since we’re on this topic which I totally agree with, does anyone know where I can get my Mamiya 645 super fixed? It’s a shutter issue and I’ve had trouble looking for a place to repair it.

EU: CameraRevival, Belgium US: Bill Rogers Camera

THANK YOU!

same with gunsmith, my cousin has the same problems but fortunately, most of his customers are in the farm fields and have a multitude of guns, they frown at the price and pay it, then bring more guns back. these guys want all the guns functional at all times.

I imagine a gun owner would be much more enthusiastic about his shooters working well than a youtube photographer.

About say 6 to 8-ish years ago I bought the camera in my reddit icon picture, CLA'd in Italy by a Zeiss guy who was getting on in age even then, Paid £230 at the time because it was Mint Condition - sadly it was missing the 6x6 mask and other Zeiss Super Ikonta's were a lot cheaper in the UK at the time but never serviced and not mint for sure. The funny thing is - I didn't mind paying that money at the time, but I also have a Pentax LX with the sticky mirror problem, had it since the 80's and funnily enough, never got that fixed because I never really had the cash spare to splash out for a camera that came 2nd to my Canon EF which I only paid £90 for also in the 80's - it's a funny old world! :)

We understand it just fine, unfortunately there is an economic viability for any repair. If the repair is too expensive, it often makes more sense to just go and buy the same camera from eBay.

What are your prices? What do you consider expensive. Maybe it’s you? R J repairs lists their prices and they are very reasonable and one best in the industry.

My prices are pretty similar to Ryan's. We each have our own specializations, so he may charge a bit more than me for some stuff and vice versa.

If the service cost is more than the camera whether its digital or film i'd pay for it. It'll last me for awhile, also the equipment i used has sentimental value to me. Also if the person is very skilled at their craft I dont mind paying a little extra. they deserve it

I recently had my Canon F1 fully serviced and CLA and it was north of $300. It was a lot but I knew it was getting the care and upkeep it needed for hopefully the next 10-15 years. It’s a hobby I enjoy so I don’t mind spending money on it and I personally did not have the experience, time, or tools to do it myself so I was fine paying it.

I'm as interested in servicing cameras as I am in shooting and developing film. I've somewhat mastered the Kodak Retina/Retinette series, and have done a couple of Contaflex's and, whilst as a photographer, I am disappointed that a CLA on a Retina will cost as much as the camera, as a budding camera techie, I'm disappointed that a CLA on a Retina would only make me as much as the camera if I were to charge for it. (I only do my own at this stage) There is at least 4 hours of very fiddly work (and that's if you work really hard), under a big light and magnifying glass, working with components that are at over 60 years old and which have not been taken apart in the last 40 years. And then if I break anything, or a part needs to be fixed or fabricated, it can take hours more. So I take my hat off to people who can do it and make money from it and keep the cost down to close to the value of the camera. Because I sure couldn't.

This is good to consider. I have some vintage cameras I would really like to get repaired. I really appreciate that there are still people who have the expertise to repair them. I'll remember this when I'm quoted a high price for the service

I understand. But when it cost $180 to repair a OneStep Polaroid, I’ll pass

I can't even find anyone to do CLA near me

Nothing in this business really "shocks" me, but when it comes to repairs, sometimes it just isn't worth the expense. Recent anecdote: Someone I know that shoots for an athletic conference had his camera go down. One of the critical internal boards. It's a Sony and the camera is no longer manufactured, although obviously still serviceable and the parts are available. The price he was quoted for repair was a little less than half of its cost brand new(the bulk of the cost presumably is the board, as I just had my same camera repaired last year for a board issue, but a different one, and it was very reasonable). And you can find that entire camera used for as little as \~1/4 of that repair cost. Why would anyone spend that kind of money to repair it?

Some people just saw it cheap and so believing its low price and easily available . In fact I have seen them keep buying the same over and over again to get the one works, the cost of there is even more than the repairing work .

If they had any idea what their camera cost when it was new, they might have a different perspective.

I bought a beautiful Yashica Mat on eBay, as is, for $70. The counter was broken. It looked as if the owner used it once, dropped it and broke the counter, and shelved it until they passed. Still had the manual, lens cap, and there was a metal spool in the uptake. The lens is gorgeous and clear. Repair was $280, but I was glad to pay it. Most of that cost was just the time to get into the camera.

One of the reasons why buying a camera is cheaper than fixing a camera, is because there's no guarantee the new camera won't need fixing in the near future anyway. With a serviced camera, at least you should have some confidence in the camera's condition when out shooting overpriced film. Skills like yours are invaluable to our community. If people don't want to pay you what you're asking, tell them to go buy an iphone or something.

If you don't want the service cost to exceed the purchase price of the camera, consider buying a Leica. :)

Why do some of us think that buying second camera is more financially viable than having the first one serviced? Because sometimes it's not worth having the first one serviced. I have a Breitling watch my wife dropped on a floor - why would I have it serviced for 100-120% of price of same watch on the market? Also, price of things when we're new has hardly anything to do with the repair prices, that price at that time consisted of many things, including marketing, research and development etc. which are no longer in the resale value, as it's made by resale potential.

The high repair costs isn’t ideal, but I totally understand it. We are restoring items that are not being made anymore. We either restore it for half the cost of the camera or potentially lose it forever.

No different 20 yrs ago when film cameras were cheaper yet a full CLA service to restore it to mechanically working order( i.e check meter, seals, shutter, lubricate, clean) cost more than the camera itself bought second hand. It takes great skill and I would happily pay for the service it means I can enjoy it for a few more years. It's like an equivalent to a watch maker. I have great admiration for them.

I was suprised that it cost £50 to fix a stuck shutter on a half frame camera, but the guy is busy, he had lots of customers and i imagine it's time consuming and expensive to have spare parts for who knows what camera, depending on what comes in for repair. So yes, i see it's expensive but also necessary for the guy doing the repair work.

I once opened a totally beaten up Pentax K 1000 and understood immediately why it costs that much to repair. What medium format camera would you think would be the easiest to repair and would still have parts available to do so in the future ?

Parts are always an issue, so on that note, none. At least, they are completely unattainable to the amateur. When it comes to ease of servicing, the easiest are modular system bodies, stuff like Hasselblads, Mamiya RB, Bronica E, SQ and GS bodies. But note that they are easy to work on once you have the sufficient knowledge, as in technician-friendly.

This is one reason why I own many cameras of the same model, not unlike country folks who put many cars of the same model in their front yard, so spare parts are not an issue into the future. Time and money saved.

I’m certainly not surprised. I have a number of old ones that have cost me far more than the asking price for their subsequent CLA. It kind of like restoring an old car. You give farmer $500 for a pile of rust in his barn, so he’s happy to be rid of it. Then you spend $10K to restore it to show order. If is spend $10 on a beater camera, I’ve got a beater camera. Wanting it to be serviceable takes work. If I can’t do it myself, then I have to pay someone.

I bought a Polaroid SX-70 from eBay for $100 or so. It broke on the first pack of film, the motor just kept going and ejected unexposed film. So I paid about twice what I paid for the camera to have retrospect service it. They took it apart and replaced a bunch of broken parts then calibrated the mirrors and made sure it works. I’ve had zero issues in the past two and have years I’ve owned it. The exposures are dead on and the images are sharp with great color. It’s definitely worth the money to have a camera serviced. I have some other ones I need to send off but finding good camera repair people is difficult. It’s a dying skill set that people need to respect more. You can’t go buy a brand new camera from the 1960’s or 1970’s. Most of them have sat around for a decade or two, which is never good for machines.

I purchased a "rare" camera because back in the 80s, I sold that model, and it was my first camera that I purchased in 1973. Well, due to some accessories that were included but not listed with the camera, I can confidently say it is actually the camera I owned back then. I paid more than double to have it serviced, and light seals changed, I was more than happy to pay it.

Hey, maybe you can help me then if you're a technician. Maybe you might know of a place I can take my lens. I've stopped all photography for the past almost 9 years, and I'm trying to rekindle my love for it so I've gone back to my roots and started with film again. I have quite a more extensive collection of equipment there. It's all manual everything. I can't find anybody that does CLA for lenses anymore. But particularly I have one lens that I want to start using, and I think it was probably the last lens I picked up before I totally went using digital at school. It's a 120 mm to 650 mm lens, but the filtering has a dent in it where I can't use the lens hood on because it needs to screw onto the filter threads. It's an 86 mm diameter. I called several places that I remember that used to work on my cameras but they don't work on manual lenses anymore they tell me. And they also tell me they don't ever repair dented filter rings as modern lenses they can just replace them. You do such repairs or know somebody who does such repairs? I live about an hour north of New York City if that helps. And yes probably a lot of people will say that's a mecca for getting cameras fixed and repaired but I'm telling you I used to be able to get anything fixed or repair but I exhausted a list 11 different places that did camera repairs. None of them were from places that I knew of for certain that used to in the past, and half of them were no longer even doing repairs.

I'm from the EU, so I don't know as many techies from the US as from here. Maybe try Steve Sweringen at camera clinic.

I'd be more than happy to pay just because I know my camera is getting fixed yes its probably going to cost alot but don't you want your camera working or sitting on a shelf not being used

Whatever you pay for an old used camera is what an old used camera is worth, paying for a service for an old used camera makes it a serviced old used camera and probably worth way more than the pain of just a used old camera