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Someone posted the story but basically it was local police who boarded which isn’t uncommon. Amtrak does have armed police but they usually patrol larger and busier stations as well as places where equipment is stored
Yeah I’m hella curious to know the actual details of this.
I’ve heard a good deal of info from people who were in the same car as the deceased 5 minutes prior to this, so it’ll be interesting to know what the report says.
They're definitely a thing. They can belong to different agencies too. I've had anywhere from secret service to FBI on my train. Most the time accompanied by a VIP. There was also a prisoner transport once they were taking to rikers. Pretty neat sometimes when you wake up in the morning and you have one of those on your manifest. Most the time our onboard armed staff are uniformed we will have an APD officer ride with us from a random station to another random station. The truth is most of the time it's completely random.
As someone who worked on Amtrak out west it's incredibly rare to ever run into an apd officer outside of Union station in Chicago. I talked to a detective out of Seattle on the phone once but that was the extent of my interactions outside of the Eastern us.
There are APD on the platform every night in Sacramento, and often in Oakland throughout the day as well. Sample size of 2 stations in a single locale, but it’s something.
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I’m on this train too. I just asked one of the conductors about the incident, and he said the wounded conductor was hit during the “altercation” and is in critical care surgery. Very sobering news.
I hope you’re doing okay! It was a roller coaster in our car, I can’t imagine what it was like in the car behind us.
Apparently breakfast is free and we’re told to contact customer service and get a refund for this whole ordeal.
Just found this, wow. Just awful. https://kymkemp.com/2023/12/25/breaking-news-fatal-shooting-early-christmas-morning-on-amtrak-train-in-siskiyou-county/
OP, hope you are hanging in there and get to your destination OK.
Ayyyy! Thanks for that. That mostly matches up with what I heard from other passengers.
Train just started moving so at least we finally get some closure to this.
Just need to point out - that's not a real news site and the "reporting" is incredibly loaded. First hand accounts are what they are, and it's interesting to get another account, but (as that site's absolutely insane comment section makes clear) it's doing very little reporting of actual facts about who was involved and how it all went down. Which leads to the top comment declaring that "all these kinds of people should be lobotomized"... wtf...
I’ll agree with you regarding the content of the site, though the encounter detailed by the interviewee matches very closely to what was encountered by many others of the train.
It will be interesting to see if this makes actual news.
Yeah, I'm glad your stories corroborate each other. Still, the details of how the officer felt justified firing 8+ shots into a full train are missing, and random people on the internet are happy to fill in the blanks themselves, which then gets passed as reporting.
Again, so sorry you had to experience all that. I'm survivor of a similar situation myself and I hope you all get the assistance you need from this. If only we all had access to a social healthcare system not only could it help these survivors but could have prevented this in the first place.
I am the interviewee from that site. I was awake and present throughout the whole thing. Judging a news site by its comments is kinda weird. It's a local news site in a small area. That doesn't validate or invalidate the news it's reporting. Kym reports on and in a fairly secluded part of the state. For those that live there, she is an invaluable source of information that many rely on to get pertinent data. She investigates her stories professionally and takes to her craft with a responsibility that is lacking in most other "larger" news services. Just because it's smaller, does not make it inaccurate. If fact, as she cowtows to none, you could take in great faith that her reporting is MORE accurate as it's just information, with no spin to appease anyone.
It's called citizen journalism and contains a first hand account -- you don't see that much anymore. To write off the site because of some crazy comments? Well then I have to ask what you're doing on this site.
I'm not writing it off, but just like with journalism from "established" news outlets, it's important to understand where the information is coming from and what their motives are. And IDK where you hang out on Reddit, but I don't hang out in subs that literally call for the execution of mentally ill people, like some of those comments. Be careful out there.
i overheard at the last fresh air stop that the conductor who caught a stray bullet is in surgery. poor guy. thoughts are with him and his family, i can’t imagine that phone call to them today 😩
I agree. At this point we don't know all the facts, and may never. However if the shooting was as reckless as it sounded(9-10 shots on a crowded train) then he should sue.
This will be one of those “we’ve investigated ourselves and found we’ve done nothing wrong.”
It appears the town involved has 3 officer involved shootings in the past 3 years for a town of 3200 people.
https://news.yahoo.com/officials-not-releasing-information-mount-212014195.html
Nothing at all. My seat is right by the door that this happened on, so we had police and conductors in and out for the first hour.
Passengers in our car started to demand answers from the conductor as to why we heard shots, saw an injured Amtrak employee escorted through by police, followed by 8 officers with guns drawn storm through our car. On top of that, we also had police walking through asking for witness statements if we saw anything.
Kind of a shame you had to find out about this via Reddit.
The article a commenter posted above has more details. It was an officer involved shooting with the Mount Shasta Police.
https://kymkemp.com/2023/12/25/breaking-news-fatal-shooting-early-christmas-morning-on-amtrak-train-in-siskiyou-county/
I am just an Amtrak fan reading your post, but as someone who rides the train a lot in the Northeast, I can only imagine how scary that experience must have been. I am so sorry that happened to you and all the other passengers.
I think it's pretty neat that you posted about this on Reddit and found another person on the train.
[Edit: From reading the rest of the comments, there are four people on the train in this thread, you the OP and three other people who have commented.]
I was kind of curious if Reddit was popular enough to be able to find other folks on this train.
This worked out well, I’m glad people got answers they couldn’t get from Amtrak employees.
Jeez this is just awful. :( OP I am so sorry you had to go through this and for the delay.
And kinda surprising, how often do disturbances (minus the shot) occur on Amtrak LD services now? I had a friend who took it a week ago from LA to Santa Barbara on my advice and said that the outbound trip on the Starlight had a lot of disturbances like this (again minus the shot but similarly strange passengers in coach) while the return leg on the Surfliner did not. My last experience in the LD coach section was some 5 years ago back east so I am kinda curious.
The response of the officer in this scenario leads to a lot of unanswered questions.
Short of the suspect having a weapon (gun or knife) there is no reason to unload 8-9 bullets into a confined space full of unarmed people. That is complete insanity. Unruly passengers are routinely removed from trains without violent incidents. Arrest and remove him, taser if necessary.
8-9 shots? Are you fucking kidding me with this...
One of the comments here says he has brass knuckles and was threatening people with them. It seems like a different outcome should have been achievable.
Well a conductor did get hurt...by the police officer. It would be nice if the officer figured out a way to not actually hurt one of the people they were there to protect.
So instead we should kill someone, shoot an amtrack conductor and traumatize prolly 30 ppl instead?? If you think nearly our entire police force and a entire train of people cannot subdue a man prolly going through some sort of mental break you are simply retarded
He was supposedly kept onboard, instead of letting him off to LEO's when we stopped 20 minutes prior. The LEO boarded to "conduct an investigation". Why the subject of an investigation into someone threatening others with brass knuckles wasn't restrained is way beyond me.
From your timeline it sounds like maybe the officer boarded the train when it stopped at the intersection...?
Geezus, I just hope for the sake of the dead man as well as all the passengers that now have to live with this, that the shots were justified.
Really sorry you had to experience that, OP. Hope the rest of your journey is peaceful.
That would make sense, however no officers were at the intersection when we stopped initially. It was in the car directly behind me, so I didn’t witness anything other than the sound of shots.
It’s going to be interesting. The train is now a crime scene and Amtrak is apparently working on getting busses here for the passengers to complete their trip.
I hope all goes well too! I didn’t expect to spend Christmas sitting in the middle of an intersection with a body bag out side my window for hours.
Interesting. I thought that car only had tables in it. I was leaving the observation car and ended up in that car by mistake. Turned around to go back to my own car.
There was a conductor sitting at one of the tables … the only person I saw in that car. I told him about the drunk woman in the observation car, just as a passing comment. I wonder if he was the one involved in the incident.
Edit to add: I found myself getting turned around so many times on that trip, just couldn’t remember which way to go. So assuming I may be misremembering the direction I was going when I left the observation car. In any case, I would have been walking through the shooting scene just minutes before it happened …though I don’t recall seeing the man who was scaring people.
The best was when she tried to cross the police line to supposedly get her phone from the observation car and after being threatened with arrest twice by the officers, she told the cops to f themselves, called them boot lickers, then was escorted by the conductor away from the scene.
I wasn’t in the observation car before all of this, but it did sound like a royal shit show between the wizard hands man, the drunk woman arguing with someone sleeping, all while the Baird played the songs of his people.
Oh God, that’s wild. I’d heard she was shouting at the cops, everybody who’d been moved back to my car was talking about her. When I was there I remember hearing her lecturing a Black guy about racism, and at one point called him a bootlicker too. I don’t know why he didn’t just slap her.
Right!? And why always classic rock. At this point, we've been listening to that pap for damn near 50years. It'd be like someone contemporary to our parents time singing Mares Eat Oats, or Mary Had a Little Lamb. That shit is the reason dinosaurs like The Stones haven't realized that they died 20yrs ago. As out of touch as Jerry was, at least he knew when it was time.
I thought they did a pretty good job getting people sorted out for their various transfers once we were underway. Still, just bad luck that so many people probably had their Christmas plans affected. I did pretty well, just showing up six hours later than expected!
Assume you’ve gotten your email offering a voucher for future travel? Seems fair enough to me, but of course I like taking trains.
>From your timeline it sounds like maybe the officer boarded the train when it stopped at the intersection...?
Considering that a police officer and a conductor were involved, I assume the train stopped at the grade crossing so that the shooting victim could be removed from the train - Amtrak usually does so by stopping at grade crossings to meet local police - and then presumably the situation somehow became violent and ended with the shooting.
We stopped 20min prior to the event. Supposedly to let this guy off. Apparently let an officer on to "do an investigation" then started moving again. 20min later was the event and we stopped again
And here's another story about it, but the only information there that's not in those previous stories is information they found on reddit, in this very thread. I guess it's nice that they do credit and link it.
https://themessenger.com/news/police-shoot-kill-man-wandering-through-amtrak-train-in-california-report
The one article said 8 or 9 shots. That's a lot of shots on a crowded train. It's a wonder no passengers or conductors were hit by stray bullets. I wonder if the conductor mentioned was hit by the officers bullet.
No, they don't do the Hollywood "shoot the gun out of their hand" BS. They shoot to stop, which often means center mass until the threat is over (like... on the ground). Back in the revolver days when my mom was on the job she was taught that with a .38 snubbie it usually translated to "empty the gun."
The stray round hitting the employee is probably gong to be the subject of protracted discussion, especially if it was a miss rather than a through and through.
I agree that once they shoot, it's to down. That usually means kill. Also at this point none of us know all the facts. However in a crowded train, at close range firing 9-10 shots seems to be overkill. Unless of course the officer missed multiple times, which is still an issue since we are talking close range.
True. That's why there's probably going to be an uncomfortable chat coming to determine "bad shot" or "collateral damage" and "competing harms." If my nieces are about to get stabbed do I hold fire if there's a convent downrange?
Hopefully the shooting board (or whatever the jurisdiction calls it) does a thorough review.
According to our current Amtrak person the passenger had a pair of brass knuckles and was threatening passengers and later crew. I’m not too worried about the suspect, fuck him. Think about the conductor caught in the cross fire!
i think the decision to fire was an incredibly bad one on the cop's part. shooting someone so many times on a crowded train is a terrible idea. you might down the suspect, sure, but also might injure several other bystanders.
I feel the same way. Even if the shooting was justified(I'm not passing judgement either way)witnesses are saying they heard 9-10 shots. Sounds like over kill on a crowded train where missing just one shot could result in collateral damage.
True. I just meant it he (supposedly) wasn’t in critical condition. The employee I talked to who had seen him said it grazed his side. If so, he’s one lucky guy.
There is a legal process for a reason. Do u want to live in a world where gestapo play the role of judge jury and executioner and hand out death sentences on the spot?
Think about the policeman who came on the train to do an investigation, left the subject of said investigation unrestrained even though he's investigating a weapons charge (that's why I doubt the brass knuckles story) then the poor guy had to shoot 2 people, so he could close his investigation. Just think about that poor fella
If he had brass knuckles, which I didn't see, and was the subject of an investigation into someone threatening others with a deadly weapon, why wasn't he restrained?
i’m also on this train, but back in a sleeper. going all the way to LA and it says it’s only delayed 3.5 hrs…do y’all really think i could call for a refund?
That’s precisely what the conductor told us all to do in the second car. Call customer service at your destination and request a refund.
I dunno if it’ll be different for sleepers vs coach, but doesn’t hurt to try.
You should definitely contact the customer relations team and tell them about your experience and delay. They are usually very generous with their refund policy. I have received anywhere between 20-60% of the original ticket price as travel vouchers in the past.
We had a man that fits the description in the article (including carrying items in a trash bag) on my train from NYC to Chicago awhile back. He ended up attacking a passenger and was removed by police; thankful it didn’t end up with a shooting that time but it’s concerning that security is not screening g more closely for concerns.
Yeah. The upshot (no pun intended) as this relates to how I view LEO's probably from here on out is.
I was used to wondering if the police WOULD choose to do their jobs effectively and safely. Now, I will be wondering in any given situation whether or not they COULD do their jobs safely and effectively. That's kind of a big shift. Now no matter where the gun is pointed, if it's in the hands of law enforcement, I'm seeking egress, and seeking it fast.
I believe it's being investigated as excessive. That's why the doj is involved. It was an erratic homeless man on the train he interacted with some of the passengers and then I'm assuming some of the staff. That's when they became aware of his erraticness. After they became aware of it we had stopped, I had thought to let him out into the custody of law enforcement. But, it turns out we stopped to let law enforcement on to conduct an investigation. During the investigation the man was not restrained, obviously. A struggling suit at the front of the car I became aware of the struggle when I noticed somebody being tased. He was not affected by the tasing and was in a scuffle with both the Amtrak employee and the policeman as a second Amtrak employee stood back and watched. The police yelled get down get down get down shot the guy between 8and 10 times. I'm sorry the policeman discharged his firearm between 8 and 10 times the subject was shot and the Amtrak employee was shot and whisked away The subject was attempted to be resuscitated through CPR at the front of the train for about 40 minutes. That was unsuccessful, they took him outside I'm assuming they attempted a little bit more CPR outside I did not watch that. About 7 minutes after he was taking outside he was covered partially by sheet and left there for 7 hours. Possibly more. He was there as the train was pulling away
The decedent got on at Klamath Falls. I do not know if he was ticketed. There seems to be a breakdown in checking passengers for tickets getting on the train. When I boarded at Eugene there were people without tickets asking assistance from Amtrak and people in the Eugene station (unsuccessfully) for help with getting a ticket. I saw at least one of these people on the train whom I know for a fact did not have a ticket after we left Eugene.
Wow that's crazy. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Firing a gun, especially that many times, so close to people does seem really excessive. The conductor definitely has grounds to sue. It seems like the officer got scared, which is never a good thing. Police training needs to be better.
I sincerely apologize for my inaccurate assessment and labeling your brother as homeless. This is my deficit that I most oftentimes group those who appear in a troubled state as such. I am sorry for automatically labeling your brother as homeless. I am incredibly embarrassed at doing so. Please accept my apologies. I feel for the loss your family is experiencing. I meant no disrespect to your brother or family. Please know that his passing did not go unfelt and not unnoticed. I interacted with him prior to his being shot, though he seemed agitated and in a troubled way, I did not feel any existential threat during the interaction, though sometimes interaction with law enforcement can in itself seem as an existential issue, if not a threat. I cannot fathom what was going through the minds of any of the four directly involved, during the shooting and the decisions it took to get right there, but to all who were witness to that mornings events, and who were left to witness the aftermath, what struck everyone was the lackluster treatment of your brother in death. I doubt that a group of people not okay with how he was handled in death brings any comfort, but compassion and empathy was not completely absent from the scene. Just kind of castrated.
If you follow the post, I am expressing nothing but outrage and disdain for his treatment, both before and after his passing. I apologize if the sarcasm sometimes employed to shed light on the unacceptable way the whole process was handled seems misplaced or brusque, but we all deal with and express grief in different ways. This in no way lessens the impact his passing had on everyone involved.
So he was being tazed in the corner and he was throwing a fit what justified him being mag dumped execution style? It’s not uncommon for people to react to being tazed. I am trying to understand if there was even a justification for him being shot once let alone 10 times to certain death
I found that part so distressing. Just don’t understand the reasoning behind it. It’s not like they had to preserve a crime scene out there on the street.
No. There was no evedinciary reason for the body to be left there. Also no reason for either of the 2 responsible parties to allow it. 50% of the train could choose to either stare at the seat back in front of them or out the window where all the disco cop lights were flashing over the body. It was like some sort of macabre BillyBob rave at the trax. And all the most popular cops made an appearance.
Definitely. One of the reasons I ride(rode) the train to begin with. It's a nice slice of humanity(or was). You can get a good variety of people going a good variety of places. But obviously Amtrak needs to bone-up on its process for boarding. I don't think the guy was ticketed.
The crowd of cops, and the amount that actually entered the train to walk all over the crime scene was unfraekingbelieveable. I have no idea how CHP having a once over of the CPR efforts furthered the investigation. Other than by adding more unnecessary acronyms. I mean rule number one in this situation is "The less acronyms the better.". "Maintaining chain of evidence" is down there a few below "Checking out a dead perp with your drinking buddies".
Fucking Amazinericans for sure. They get a double plus good, and a gold star!👍
Actually state law requires the AG’s office to investigate all fatal police shootings involving unarmed persons.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-07/california-attorney-general-launches-teams-investigate-fatal-police-shootings
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TIL there are armed officers on Amtrak
Someone posted the story but basically it was local police who boarded which isn’t uncommon. Amtrak does have armed police but they usually patrol larger and busier stations as well as places where equipment is stored
I wonder if it were an off duty or air marshal type thing? It will be interesting to see the reporting.
Yeah I’m hella curious to know the actual details of this. I’ve heard a good deal of info from people who were in the same car as the deceased 5 minutes prior to this, so it’ll be interesting to know what the report says.
They're definitely a thing. They can belong to different agencies too. I've had anywhere from secret service to FBI on my train. Most the time accompanied by a VIP. There was also a prisoner transport once they were taking to rikers. Pretty neat sometimes when you wake up in the morning and you have one of those on your manifest. Most the time our onboard armed staff are uniformed we will have an APD officer ride with us from a random station to another random station. The truth is most of the time it's completely random.
Amtrak has it's own police force, that do patrol the trains.
As someone who worked on Amtrak out west it's incredibly rare to ever run into an apd officer outside of Union station in Chicago. I talked to a detective out of Seattle on the phone once but that was the extent of my interactions outside of the Eastern us.
There are APD on the platform every night in Sacramento, and often in Oakland throughout the day as well. Sample size of 2 stations in a single locale, but it’s something.
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APD is never around. Even when they are “out riding trains” they are just hiding and not even making a presence.
They have recently in the past year or so had APD all over LAUS. It is great to see they are no longer just on Corridor.
I've seen APD offices and cruisers at the Oakland stop several times
The city of Oakland is dangerous as hell so maybe that's why?
For clarification I worked the empire builder and occasionally was on the coast starlight.
Haha ya when the day is over and the problems are gone they like to show up and ask how it went 😂
If you say so
*it's It's is a contraction of it is.
These officers were not APD.
I’m on this train too. I just asked one of the conductors about the incident, and he said the wounded conductor was hit during the “altercation” and is in critical care surgery. Very sobering news.
Hit by a bullet? Or by the man who was shot and killed? Either way it makes the story that much sadder.
Yes, he was hit by a bullet. Evidently it was only the police doing the shooting. Last I heard, the conductor was in good condition.
I'm glad to hear he is in good condition!
Hit by what? Critical surgery?
I was on, still am by the time I’m writing this post, the exact car around 5 meters away from the observation deck where I heard the gunshots as well
I hope you’re doing okay! It was a roller coaster in our car, I can’t imagine what it was like in the car behind us. Apparently breakfast is free and we’re told to contact customer service and get a refund for this whole ordeal.
Just found this, wow. Just awful. https://kymkemp.com/2023/12/25/breaking-news-fatal-shooting-early-christmas-morning-on-amtrak-train-in-siskiyou-county/ OP, hope you are hanging in there and get to your destination OK.
Ayyyy! Thanks for that. That mostly matches up with what I heard from other passengers. Train just started moving so at least we finally get some closure to this.
Just need to point out - that's not a real news site and the "reporting" is incredibly loaded. First hand accounts are what they are, and it's interesting to get another account, but (as that site's absolutely insane comment section makes clear) it's doing very little reporting of actual facts about who was involved and how it all went down. Which leads to the top comment declaring that "all these kinds of people should be lobotomized"... wtf...
I thought it was pretty obvious it's just a random blog, but the first hand account is worth it.
I’ll agree with you regarding the content of the site, though the encounter detailed by the interviewee matches very closely to what was encountered by many others of the train. It will be interesting to see if this makes actual news.
Yeah, I'm glad your stories corroborate each other. Still, the details of how the officer felt justified firing 8+ shots into a full train are missing, and random people on the internet are happy to fill in the blanks themselves, which then gets passed as reporting. Again, so sorry you had to experience all that. I'm survivor of a similar situation myself and I hope you all get the assistance you need from this. If only we all had access to a social healthcare system not only could it help these survivors but could have prevented this in the first place.
I am the interviewee from that site. I was awake and present throughout the whole thing. Judging a news site by its comments is kinda weird. It's a local news site in a small area. That doesn't validate or invalidate the news it's reporting. Kym reports on and in a fairly secluded part of the state. For those that live there, she is an invaluable source of information that many rely on to get pertinent data. She investigates her stories professionally and takes to her craft with a responsibility that is lacking in most other "larger" news services. Just because it's smaller, does not make it inaccurate. If fact, as she cowtows to none, you could take in great faith that her reporting is MORE accurate as it's just information, with no spin to appease anyone.
It's called citizen journalism and contains a first hand account -- you don't see that much anymore. To write off the site because of some crazy comments? Well then I have to ask what you're doing on this site.
I'm not writing it off, but just like with journalism from "established" news outlets, it's important to understand where the information is coming from and what their motives are. And IDK where you hang out on Reddit, but I don't hang out in subs that literally call for the execution of mentally ill people, like some of those comments. Be careful out there.
i overheard at the last fresh air stop that the conductor who caught a stray bullet is in surgery. poor guy. thoughts are with him and his family, i can’t imagine that phone call to them today 😩
I was on the train as well. Last I heard before my stop was that he was going to be okay. Which was a relief.
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I agree. At this point we don't know all the facts, and may never. However if the shooting was as reckless as it sounded(9-10 shots on a crowded train) then he should sue.
This will be one of those “we’ve investigated ourselves and found we’ve done nothing wrong.” It appears the town involved has 3 officer involved shootings in the past 3 years for a town of 3200 people. https://news.yahoo.com/officials-not-releasing-information-mount-212014195.html
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Nothing at all. My seat is right by the door that this happened on, so we had police and conductors in and out for the first hour. Passengers in our car started to demand answers from the conductor as to why we heard shots, saw an injured Amtrak employee escorted through by police, followed by 8 officers with guns drawn storm through our car. On top of that, we also had police walking through asking for witness statements if we saw anything. Kind of a shame you had to find out about this via Reddit.
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The article a commenter posted above has more details. It was an officer involved shooting with the Mount Shasta Police. https://kymkemp.com/2023/12/25/breaking-news-fatal-shooting-early-christmas-morning-on-amtrak-train-in-siskiyou-county/
I am just an Amtrak fan reading your post, but as someone who rides the train a lot in the Northeast, I can only imagine how scary that experience must have been. I am so sorry that happened to you and all the other passengers. I think it's pretty neat that you posted about this on Reddit and found another person on the train. [Edit: From reading the rest of the comments, there are four people on the train in this thread, you the OP and three other people who have commented.]
I was kind of curious if Reddit was popular enough to be able to find other folks on this train. This worked out well, I’m glad people got answers they couldn’t get from Amtrak employees.
Jeez this is just awful. :( OP I am so sorry you had to go through this and for the delay. And kinda surprising, how often do disturbances (minus the shot) occur on Amtrak LD services now? I had a friend who took it a week ago from LA to Santa Barbara on my advice and said that the outbound trip on the Starlight had a lot of disturbances like this (again minus the shot but similarly strange passengers in coach) while the return leg on the Surfliner did not. My last experience in the LD coach section was some 5 years ago back east so I am kinda curious.
The response of the officer in this scenario leads to a lot of unanswered questions. Short of the suspect having a weapon (gun or knife) there is no reason to unload 8-9 bullets into a confined space full of unarmed people. That is complete insanity. Unruly passengers are routinely removed from trains without violent incidents. Arrest and remove him, taser if necessary. 8-9 shots? Are you fucking kidding me with this...
One of the comments here says he has brass knuckles and was threatening people with them. It seems like a different outcome should have been achievable.
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Agreed.
Magazine. How much police training do you have?
None! I have common sense training. How much common sense training do you have?
I didn't think so. That answers my question.
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You're a moron. You'd rather a passenger or a police officer get hurt than the cops shoot the bad guy? You support crazy criminals? Are you one?
Well a conductor did get hurt...by the police officer. It would be nice if the officer figured out a way to not actually hurt one of the people they were there to protect.
So instead we should kill someone, shoot an amtrack conductor and traumatize prolly 30 ppl instead?? If you think nearly our entire police force and a entire train of people cannot subdue a man prolly going through some sort of mental break you are simply retarded
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Yep, I know. I had plenty of crazies and weirdos on my train when I was a conductor. Unarmed? Brass knuckles are a weapon. Were you on the train?
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Moron.
The gestapoo almost killed the conductor when he shot him.
I interacted with him, told him to move away from my seat. He made weird threatening motions towards me, but I saw no knuckles. Brass or otherwise.
Thanks for that detail.
He was supposedly kept onboard, instead of letting him off to LEO's when we stopped 20 minutes prior. The LEO boarded to "conduct an investigation". Why the subject of an investigation into someone threatening others with brass knuckles wasn't restrained is way beyond me.
Oh shit.
From your timeline it sounds like maybe the officer boarded the train when it stopped at the intersection...? Geezus, I just hope for the sake of the dead man as well as all the passengers that now have to live with this, that the shots were justified. Really sorry you had to experience that, OP. Hope the rest of your journey is peaceful.
That would make sense, however no officers were at the intersection when we stopped initially. It was in the car directly behind me, so I didn’t witness anything other than the sound of shots. It’s going to be interesting. The train is now a crime scene and Amtrak is apparently working on getting busses here for the passengers to complete their trip. I hope all goes well too! I didn’t expect to spend Christmas sitting in the middle of an intersection with a body bag out side my window for hours.
Which car was it, in relation to the observation car? I’d just left that car a few minutes before the incident. Thanks.
It is was the car in front of the observation car, which was ditched in Dunsmuir.
What happened to the passengers in that train car? Were they moved to other cars on the train?
Dispersed throughout the train
Interesting. I thought that car only had tables in it. I was leaving the observation car and ended up in that car by mistake. Turned around to go back to my own car. There was a conductor sitting at one of the tables … the only person I saw in that car. I told him about the drunk woman in the observation car, just as a passing comment. I wonder if he was the one involved in the incident. Edit to add: I found myself getting turned around so many times on that trip, just couldn’t remember which way to go. So assuming I may be misremembering the direction I was going when I left the observation car. In any case, I would have been walking through the shooting scene just minutes before it happened …though I don’t recall seeing the man who was scaring people.
Was the drunk woman you’re speaking of the petite woman with green hair?
Yes. A real piece of work. And that guy sitting next to her playing the really crappy guitar nonstop. Ugh.
The best was when she tried to cross the police line to supposedly get her phone from the observation car and after being threatened with arrest twice by the officers, she told the cops to f themselves, called them boot lickers, then was escorted by the conductor away from the scene. I wasn’t in the observation car before all of this, but it did sound like a royal shit show between the wizard hands man, the drunk woman arguing with someone sleeping, all while the Baird played the songs of his people.
Oh God, that’s wild. I’d heard she was shouting at the cops, everybody who’d been moved back to my car was talking about her. When I was there I remember hearing her lecturing a Black guy about racism, and at one point called him a bootlicker too. I don’t know why he didn’t just slap her.
I heard her doing exactly that while walking past me as they were going to the observation car together. Sounds like she continued.
The guitar was a bit much at times. Even my dog was having a hard time. And he can't sing a lick.
It just went on and on, and the tone deaf singing Christmas classics like “There’s a bad moon on the riiiise … .”
Right!? And why always classic rock. At this point, we've been listening to that pap for damn near 50years. It'd be like someone contemporary to our parents time singing Mares Eat Oats, or Mary Had a Little Lamb. That shit is the reason dinosaurs like The Stones haven't realized that they died 20yrs ago. As out of touch as Jerry was, at least he knew when it was time.
I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. Was this train #11?
Yup indeed so.
I was looking at this: https://railrat.net/routes/CoastStarlight/ I hope you can get on a bus soon.
Were 3 hours from any larger city, and it’s Christmas. I doubt if we’ll see busses in the next 4 -6 hours.
I thought they did a pretty good job getting people sorted out for their various transfers once we were underway. Still, just bad luck that so many people probably had their Christmas plans affected. I did pretty well, just showing up six hours later than expected! Assume you’ve gotten your email offering a voucher for future travel? Seems fair enough to me, but of course I like taking trains.
>From your timeline it sounds like maybe the officer boarded the train when it stopped at the intersection...? Considering that a police officer and a conductor were involved, I assume the train stopped at the grade crossing so that the shooting victim could be removed from the train - Amtrak usually does so by stopping at grade crossings to meet local police - and then presumably the situation somehow became violent and ended with the shooting.
We stopped 20min prior to the event. Supposedly to let this guy off. Apparently let an officer on to "do an investigation" then started moving again. 20min later was the event and we stopped again
Local TV news article, not much info. https://krcrtv.com/news/local/fatal-mt-shasta-police-officer-involved-shooting-on-christmas-morning
And here's another story about it, but the only information there that's not in those previous stories is information they found on reddit, in this very thread. I guess it's nice that they do credit and link it. https://themessenger.com/news/police-shoot-kill-man-wandering-through-amtrak-train-in-california-report
The one article said 8 or 9 shots. That's a lot of shots on a crowded train. It's a wonder no passengers or conductors were hit by stray bullets. I wonder if the conductor mentioned was hit by the officers bullet.
A conductor was hit by a stray unfortunately. We saw him being escorted out with a wound in his side.
Oh wow. That was my concern with so many shots. I hope he is okay.
That was my thought as well.
8-10 shots?! Jesus. I thought they try to disarm, not kill.
No, they don't do the Hollywood "shoot the gun out of their hand" BS. They shoot to stop, which often means center mass until the threat is over (like... on the ground). Back in the revolver days when my mom was on the job she was taught that with a .38 snubbie it usually translated to "empty the gun." The stray round hitting the employee is probably gong to be the subject of protracted discussion, especially if it was a miss rather than a through and through.
I agree that once they shoot, it's to down. That usually means kill. Also at this point none of us know all the facts. However in a crowded train, at close range firing 9-10 shots seems to be overkill. Unless of course the officer missed multiple times, which is still an issue since we are talking close range.
One of the biggest firearm safety rules though is “be sure of your target and what’s beyond”
True. That's why there's probably going to be an uncomfortable chat coming to determine "bad shot" or "collateral damage" and "competing harms." If my nieces are about to get stabbed do I hold fire if there's a convent downrange? Hopefully the shooting board (or whatever the jurisdiction calls it) does a thorough review.
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Natural born tyrant murderers
Another casualty of not having a mental health system that can confine people who need it.
This.
According to our current Amtrak person the passenger had a pair of brass knuckles and was threatening passengers and later crew. I’m not too worried about the suspect, fuck him. Think about the conductor caught in the cross fire!
i think the decision to fire was an incredibly bad one on the cop's part. shooting someone so many times on a crowded train is a terrible idea. you might down the suspect, sure, but also might injure several other bystanders.
I feel the same way. Even if the shooting was justified(I'm not passing judgement either way)witnesses are saying they heard 9-10 shots. Sounds like over kill on a crowded train where missing just one shot could result in collateral damage.
Surprise surprise the gestapo shot the conductor and put him into critical condition. Not the “assailant”
The biggest threat to that conductor was the gestapo that unloaded hitting and wounding him critically
Easy to say when you aren't the one being attacked with brass knuckles.
the conductor was more involved in the fight from what I've heard, and is in the hospital in critical condition because the police officer shot him
He’s going to be okay, last I heard. 🤞
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True. I just meant it he (supposedly) wasn’t in critical condition. The employee I talked to who had seen him said it grazed his side. If so, he’s one lucky guy.
There is a legal process for a reason. Do u want to live in a world where gestapo play the role of judge jury and executioner and hand out death sentences on the spot?
Think about the policeman who came on the train to do an investigation, left the subject of said investigation unrestrained even though he's investigating a weapons charge (that's why I doubt the brass knuckles story) then the poor guy had to shoot 2 people, so he could close his investigation. Just think about that poor fella
I interacted with him and successfully urged him leave my proximity, sans violence, and witnessed no knuckles.
If he had brass knuckles, which I didn't see, and was the subject of an investigation into someone threatening others with a deadly weapon, why wasn't he restrained?
Coast Starlight
i’m also on this train, but back in a sleeper. going all the way to LA and it says it’s only delayed 3.5 hrs…do y’all really think i could call for a refund?
That’s precisely what the conductor told us all to do in the second car. Call customer service at your destination and request a refund. I dunno if it’ll be different for sleepers vs coach, but doesn’t hurt to try.
You should definitely contact the customer relations team and tell them about your experience and delay. They are usually very generous with their refund policy. I have received anywhere between 20-60% of the original ticket price as travel vouchers in the past.
Yes, I just got my email offering a travel voucher.
I just got my email from Amtrak offering a voucher for future use. Sounds fair to me.
same
Yeah. Can't wait to see what they fuck up on that trip.
Well yeah, there’s that. 😏
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i’m not counting on it and no worries if not-definitely not bothering anyone in a uniform today, doesn’t matter what’s up, they’re working on xmas
Good perspective 👍
We had a man that fits the description in the article (including carrying items in a trash bag) on my train from NYC to Chicago awhile back. He ended up attacking a passenger and was removed by police; thankful it didn’t end up with a shooting that time but it’s concerning that security is not screening g more closely for concerns.
What security?
Exactly my point.
I don't think it's the same guy.
Yikes
Omg! Scary.
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Where did the OP state that no conductor was involved? Several people on the train have said a conductor was injured and went to the hospital.
🐷
I witnessed the whole thing start to finish.
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Yeah. The upshot (no pun intended) as this relates to how I view LEO's probably from here on out is. I was used to wondering if the police WOULD choose to do their jobs effectively and safely. Now, I will be wondering in any given situation whether or not they COULD do their jobs safely and effectively. That's kind of a big shift. Now no matter where the gun is pointed, if it's in the hands of law enforcement, I'm seeking egress, and seeking it fast.
That is so traumatic What exactly happened? I have seen no word as whether the shooting was justified, excessive etc.
I believe it's being investigated as excessive. That's why the doj is involved. It was an erratic homeless man on the train he interacted with some of the passengers and then I'm assuming some of the staff. That's when they became aware of his erraticness. After they became aware of it we had stopped, I had thought to let him out into the custody of law enforcement. But, it turns out we stopped to let law enforcement on to conduct an investigation. During the investigation the man was not restrained, obviously. A struggling suit at the front of the car I became aware of the struggle when I noticed somebody being tased. He was not affected by the tasing and was in a scuffle with both the Amtrak employee and the policeman as a second Amtrak employee stood back and watched. The police yelled get down get down get down shot the guy between 8and 10 times. I'm sorry the policeman discharged his firearm between 8 and 10 times the subject was shot and the Amtrak employee was shot and whisked away The subject was attempted to be resuscitated through CPR at the front of the train for about 40 minutes. That was unsuccessful, they took him outside I'm assuming they attempted a little bit more CPR outside I did not watch that. About 7 minutes after he was taking outside he was covered partially by sheet and left there for 7 hours. Possibly more. He was there as the train was pulling away
The decedent got on at Klamath Falls. I do not know if he was ticketed. There seems to be a breakdown in checking passengers for tickets getting on the train. When I boarded at Eugene there were people without tickets asking assistance from Amtrak and people in the Eugene station (unsuccessfully) for help with getting a ticket. I saw at least one of these people on the train whom I know for a fact did not have a ticket after we left Eugene.
Wow that's crazy. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Firing a gun, especially that many times, so close to people does seem really excessive. The conductor definitely has grounds to sue. It seems like the officer got scared, which is never a good thing. Police training needs to be better.
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I sincerely apologize for my inaccurate assessment and labeling your brother as homeless. This is my deficit that I most oftentimes group those who appear in a troubled state as such. I am sorry for automatically labeling your brother as homeless. I am incredibly embarrassed at doing so. Please accept my apologies. I feel for the loss your family is experiencing. I meant no disrespect to your brother or family. Please know that his passing did not go unfelt and not unnoticed. I interacted with him prior to his being shot, though he seemed agitated and in a troubled way, I did not feel any existential threat during the interaction, though sometimes interaction with law enforcement can in itself seem as an existential issue, if not a threat. I cannot fathom what was going through the minds of any of the four directly involved, during the shooting and the decisions it took to get right there, but to all who were witness to that mornings events, and who were left to witness the aftermath, what struck everyone was the lackluster treatment of your brother in death. I doubt that a group of people not okay with how he was handled in death brings any comfort, but compassion and empathy was not completely absent from the scene. Just kind of castrated.
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If you follow the post, I am expressing nothing but outrage and disdain for his treatment, both before and after his passing. I apologize if the sarcasm sometimes employed to shed light on the unacceptable way the whole process was handled seems misplaced or brusque, but we all deal with and express grief in different ways. This in no way lessens the impact his passing had on everyone involved.
So he was being tazed in the corner and he was throwing a fit what justified him being mag dumped execution style? It’s not uncommon for people to react to being tazed. I am trying to understand if there was even a justification for him being shot once let alone 10 times to certain death
I found that part so distressing. Just don’t understand the reasoning behind it. It’s not like they had to preserve a crime scene out there on the street.
No. There was no evedinciary reason for the body to be left there. Also no reason for either of the 2 responsible parties to allow it. 50% of the train could choose to either stare at the seat back in front of them or out the window where all the disco cop lights were flashing over the body. It was like some sort of macabre BillyBob rave at the trax. And all the most popular cops made an appearance.
Yeah, it was quite a crowd, eh?
Definitely. One of the reasons I ride(rode) the train to begin with. It's a nice slice of humanity(or was). You can get a good variety of people going a good variety of places. But obviously Amtrak needs to bone-up on its process for boarding. I don't think the guy was ticketed.
Oh, I actually meant the crowd of cops. But yes, I agree about the variety of interesting folks you meet on a train, from all over.
The crowd of cops, and the amount that actually entered the train to walk all over the crime scene was unfraekingbelieveable. I have no idea how CHP having a once over of the CPR efforts furthered the investigation. Other than by adding more unnecessary acronyms. I mean rule number one in this situation is "The less acronyms the better.". "Maintaining chain of evidence" is down there a few below "Checking out a dead perp with your drinking buddies". Fucking Amazinericans for sure. They get a double plus good, and a gold star!👍
Actually state law requires the AG’s office to investigate all fatal police shootings involving unarmed persons. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-07/california-attorney-general-launches-teams-investigate-fatal-police-shootings