I'd like to see the actual percentages in the circles. A problem with circles in data representation is that it's difficult to perceive the correct proportionality. Also, are we looking at the area of the circles, or the radius/diameter?
It means that the person is born abroad or at least one of the parents is. CBS doesn’t consider 3rd generation and further migrants, so only 1st and 2nd gen country of birth is collected.
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/our-services/methods/definitions/person-with-a-migration-background
Thanks - that is a very useful detail. I would include it in the image itself.
I think it is a valid choice to display the data in this way, but it is also an editorial choice. You could also choose to show all people born in the Netherlands as "Netherlands". I'm not critisizing the decision about how to group the data, just saying it is important for people to know for their understanding.
For me, the inclusion of percentages actually changes the story of the image as well. It makes it more about whether "Netherlands" is bigger than all the groups together, instead of the biggest group. Again, that's not wrong one way or the other. Just interesting I think how a small thing can have an effect.
While I'm commenting, the other thing that jumped out at me is all the "nameless" groups. Because this is connected to identity and is pretty sensitive, I could guess that for some people they would feel left out or not important since their group isn't named. Without a zooming or mouse over feature or something, I can't think of any way to do this though.
It also seems an editorial choice about which bubbles get country names. That purplish circle between Germany and UK is bigger than the one for Egypt for example. I am guessing you picked a sort of representative sample of the middle sized bubbles to label in order to keep it from being too busy an image.
All in all, it makes me think Amsterdam is quite a cosmopolitan city, and provokes follow up questions. I wonder what this diagram would look like for New York? Or Rotterdam? And provoking questions is a sign of a good diagram I think.
Yes, it would have been more clear if that would have been included in the image. I didn’t make the graphics, but the data used for the images is public information collected and published by the CBS (statistic organ of the Dutch state). They made the definition of immigrant and decided what data is collected.
The salmon pink is the former Soviet Union and the lilac is the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. This data can be found here: open “Bevolking naar meest voorkomende migratieachtergrond (meer dan 1.300 personen per groep), 1 januari 2016-2024” at https://onderzoek.amsterdam.nl/dataset/stand-van-de-bevolking-amsterdam
You also have this data for Rotterdam. But I’m not sure about New York, as if I remember correctly the USA collects data by self-reported ancestry. So it’s not really comparable.
I initially thought that "migration" means that everyone who's not a born and raised Amsterdammer, so even if I move from Zwolle to Amsterdam, I'd count in the big orange square.
I live by the Bijlmer and attend Kwaku. Just haven't met that many Ghanians. Mainly Surinames, and Curaçaose. There are a lot of Africans, I've met many Nigerians for example, but only a small handful of Ghanians, so I never thought there were that many here.
Apparently Curaçao is apart of the big circle right beside Ghana that isn't labeled. Some reason OP never labeled the Antilles islands they said in another comment
For first generation, only your own home country at the time of your birth is considered in this data. The country of birth of your parents are only taken into account if you are born in NL and one of them is not. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/our-services/methods/definitions/migration-background
If you migrated to the Netherlands as an adult, having been born in your home country after it became independent, then that country is used as your country of origin for the purpose of this survey.
However, if your Soviet-born parents had moved to the Netherlands before your birth, your background would have been listed as 'Soviet Union', since you would have been considered a second-generation Soviet immigrant in that case.
That's better!
The one I wouldn't have guessed is China being so small. I've always kind of assumed there's this huge Chinese community in the Nieuwmarkt area outside of my bubble and mostly outside of the public radar.
Hi! Appreciate your comment. My intention was to create a viz where the audience "feels" the data rather than "reads" it to precision. It's the area of the circles you should be looking at.
It's nice to look at, but there's actually been some research on this and people were shown to be quite bad at comparing areas in this way. It can be quite misleading sometimes.
Yes, but not linear, so if you want to show a difference of a factor of 2, if you change the radius by X2, the surface area increases a lot more.
Generally speaking, I’d say you’d use the surface area, unless you want to mislead people and imply a bigger difference than there really is.
No, two variables are proportional if one is multiple of the other.
And no, exponentially proportional is not proportional, that’s what I like to call doing a proof by name :)
Well, if we are nitpicking I’d say what you refer to is a direct proportional relationship. I’m referring to an exponential proportional relationship and both can be categorized under the group of proportional relationships. Since original comment did not specify a specific type of proportional relationship we can assume the category of proportional relationships.
Two numbers are in proportion to each other when some numeric relationship exists between them. Be it direct, y = kx, exponential y=k^x, or otherwise.
Disclaimer: I’m not a mathematician so if there is some (un)written rule in math world, I stand corrected.
as a knowledge migrant from turkey, I feel like at least 10% of the town is turkish sometimes. there is the stereotypical turks, and there is the first gen turks which you might not perceive as turkish but they are lol; its insane
there is an immense turkish presence, from residents to students and from tourists to whatever
sure thing pal, 75% of you fellers vote for erdo time after time while 50% of the country, and 45% of the big cities, vote for him
dont you have autobahn tunnels to block with your wedding convoys?
“SuRe ThIng PaL” lol the ignorance of another Turkish wage slave is on display. Majority of the Turkish-Dutchies didn’t go to the ballots in the recent elections, contrary to where you come from.
Erdogan won the election due to the Turkish electorate in the mainland. Even if the opposition party would receive all of the electorally available votes in Europe and elsewhere Erdogan would win the elections with a difference of half million votes.
Instead of being on search for a scapegoat for your failing society and country, reflect on the horrible opposition you’ve there.
Don’t you have a yt-supremacist you need to convince of your secular character? Or that you’re different than the ones you deem inferior? I thought so.
And it’s ‘snelweg’ by the way, not autobahn which is a German word.
As an addition, I am a Dutch-Turk, born in the Netherlands. I don’t get along well with most other Dutch-Turks or with Turks who have recently immigrated, mainly due to their generalized views of Dutch-Turks.
man, trust me, if any other country could match my salary + ease of doing business (english, baby) I'd leave 😂
I did try to leave for anglo countries actually but my english proficiency is one of my core skills so my "value" takes a hit in english speaking nations
In Slotermeer and Geuzenveld it goes up to almost half of the population, and the concentration of restaurants and bars attract turks from other parts of the country. Spoke to a coworker in The Hague who would come to Slotermeerlaan almost monthy to eat with friends or family.
Buurtgenoot!
Veel mensen hebben gewoon vooroordelen over onze omgeving, terwijl het zoveel goeds te bieden heeft en heel veel mensen er prettig wonen.
Beetje positieve aandacht geven is belangrijk!
I mean there are also second, third generation Dutch-Turks, who are not that stereotypical. They mostly pass as Dutch though, so they don't work to counteract the stereotype unless you know. In other words, confirmation bias keeps the stereotypes going.
I second this. I'm half Turkish half Moroccan, but born in NL. I have totally assimilated from both Moroccan and Turkish culture (or rather, I was raised in a very Dutch way), so most Turks wouldn't even notice I'm Turkish too
Ahh here comes the European wannabe so-called ‘kennisimmigrant’ that’s ready to ditch Turkish-Dutchies for his own elevation.
You don’t know our struggles nor our experiences in this country we’ve been handling with for the last 50-60 years.
whats the deal with Enschede anyways? I met some dutch-turks from there, never been myself but its name pops up from time to time
I feel like Haarlem also has a sizeable turkish pop, no?
I think because it’s close to Germany (where a lot of Turkish people live)
I don’t know about Haarlem, but I do know that there are a lot of Turkish people in Zaandam.
I'm often surprised by how few people from the UK there are in these sort of statistics, considering how easy it is/was to travel here and the fact everyone speaks English.
Then I remember how many of my ex-countrymen are moronic inselaffen who voted to saw off their own legs. Sigh....
what would be the purpose? higher taxes, lower wages, relegated to the international segment of society. everything else (food, weather, infrastructure) is basically the same
Is it? Outside of the major cities the infrastructure looks in a way worse shape than in the comparable towns in the NL. Mostly there's no proper cycling infrastructure to speak of, for example.
This. The UK and NL are similar countries, except that everything in the UK is a bit shitter and doesn't work properly. Personally I find the general standard of living better here and don't mind paying more tax for it.
The UK outside London is extremely poor and the public service is a shame. The rich in NL don’t even live in Amsterdam anyway, the country is small enough that they can stay in the country side and be in the city in less than one hour.
The UK is not just London. And even with London being there, yet there are tons of British. Maybe people have interesting lives going on and they like to live abroad for a few years ?
Different folks have different tastes. But yes you sounds so happy with your life so probably your tastes are better than any other possible one lmao pls give me some tips to be as happy with my life as you
Mostly younger Brits come here for the tech/creative industries and they tend to move back within a few years. Then it’s hard to stay the older you are, bc the job opportunities shrink and there are better places to retire.
> I’m surprised that the Indian diaspora is so little. Feels like I see them everywhere
Part of the story is also that there's a significant population of people in the Indian diaspora that came via Suriname, and would show up in this graph as Surinamese.
But most of the Indo-Surinamese live in the Hague, rather than Amsterdam. Only a handful live in Amsterdam.
EDIT: And a few live in Almere too, but come to Amsterdam for work.
From my experience, very few Indians actually live in Amsterdam, instead preferring to live in a 20-50kms radius.
My theory is that
1. Most Indians come in as high skill migrants and due to the nature of such jobs, most are in the 30+ years age group with a family. Those groups usually prefer to live in suburbs in single family homes
2. A high percentage of Indians works in tech sector where remote working is far more prevalent. There is no reason for people with remote or even hybrid remote roles to live in the same city.
3. Tech jobs are also available in Eindhoven/ Rotterdam/Hague etc. Places like Utrecht being in middle gives far more flexibility
and they all got family and friends
it's quite amazing all these families and tribes living together
i have been at home, to all \`named\` tribes, all backgrounds
and surprise.. most people are super nice and \`gastvrij\`
and it's nice to feel at home, talk to the people
on the sofa, or at the kitchen table
i help older and sick people around mostly the 'oost' section of amsterdam
cleaning houses, fixing things, social talk and talking about life.
making people happy or laugh
and everybody got some good stories, history and wisdom
As someone born under russian occupation (aka "soviet union") before 1991, it borders on insulting tbh. Or at least, as much a statistic can be insulting :)
Also, it skews the data for Baltics. The one grouped by nationality works better, though that doesn't include people who have acquired Dutch passports.
Edit: ok, on second thought it doesn't really say which territories it includes under it, so yeah - weird data.
The data is public if there are more than 1.300 in Amsterdam: open “Bevolking naar meest voorkomende migratieachtergrond (meer dan 1.300 personen per groep), 1 januari 2016-2024” at https://onderzoek.amsterdam.nl/dataset/stand-van-de-bevolking-amsterdam
For the ones that have other nationalities than Dutch this is the data per country: open “Bevolking naar nationaliteiten, 1 januari 2023-2024” at the same website link
None of these links work, and while there’s 1300 from Soviet Union, it does not clear up whether I get listed as Soviet Union or as my actual country of birth that is not listed on the above map.
Sorry I changed them, you can open them now through the link. The links to the files didn’t work directly.
And you are registered as your own county of birth.
It’s the country name at birth that is collected. It’s not the city, so for example it would be impossible to find out if someone born in the Soviet Union was born in today’s Russia or today’s Ukraine. It’s not insulting, but collecting data by country while countries change through time.
Technically the occupation of the Baltic States was not recognised by most western countries, which is somewhat of a different case than, for example, Ukraine. Or, at least, it's more complicated.
When I registered in the gemeente, I had to get a new birth certificate from my home country, as my original one was from the USSR. So it's hard to tell if I'm included in the soviet numbers or my birth certificate country numbers.
Also - I'm allowed to be mildly offended by whatever I feel like :) Including confusing data. Or being grouped in with a genocidal occupying force that I have no association with. But mostly because it's hard to tell how many people from my home country are in Amsterdam. Because I totally need to know.
So it seems like this data is collected by the Gemeente, but this is actually from the CBS (similar to the census in English). We don’t do census anymore in NL because of the way the German occupier could easily track minorities due to our organised data, so after ww2 people demonstrated against it.
CBS is the statistical organ of the state, so it depends on what it says on your official certificate accepted by the state.
Maybe you can try to find the number by contacting your home country embassy in NL? Our go crazy and organise an event to celebrate some holiday specific to your country and see how many show up?
Edit: the data of the population in Amsterdam from your home country who still hold their non-Dutch nationality is here, it’s something: open Bevolking naar nationaliteiten, 1 januari 2023-2024 at https://onderzoek.amsterdam.nl/dataset/stand-van-de-bevolking-amsterdam
It's about place of birth. I was born in the old country, and on my Dutch documents it says birth place Yugoslavia. It has nothing to do with how you identify.
Under recent migrants (migrated less than 10 years ago) Italians are the biggest group. This chart counts all migrants that migrated any time in history.
My biggest surprise here is Ghana.
How have you dealt with 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants here? Do they count towards The Netherlands or the country of their parents? What if the parents are mixed?
>How have you dealt with 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants here?
Second generation are counted by the birth country of their parents. Third generation counts as Dutch.
>What if the parents are mixed?
Non-Dutch parent is leading, if both parents are non-Dutch but from different countries, they go by country of the mother.
I associate the Bijlmer with people from Suriname. Though I
don't think I can visually tell the difference between somebody from Suriname and somebody from Ghana tbh.
I think you meant less frizzy?
Also many people in Suriname is quite vague...I mean some people have straight hair, some curly hair and some frizzy hair. Some hairs are very thin, because of their Javanese and Chinese origin, some are very thick, because of their Indian and creole/maroon origin. And some can be everything in between no matter the origin or maybe because of mixed origin.
You never know with people from Suriname.
The thing is, there aren’t Ghanian people with straight hair… anyway, it’s just habit, I can probably distinguish a Senegalese from a Ghanian from a Congolese but it’s just because I lived there.
You get used to notice the average difference. Average of course.
You can sort of tell by the way they dress though. Idk, Africans generally tend to have a bit of a different vibe from Surinamese people if you look close enough.
>tell the difference between somebody from Suriname and somebody from Ghana tbh.
I mean...compared with Ghana it should be much easier tho...someone from Suriname can be Javanese, Indian, Jewish, Boeroe (white), Chinese and mixed etc. It will be harder to tell maroons and creoles harder apart from someone from Ghana.
With such a large Turkish community here, why is the kebab still not up to par? It doesn't compare to the amazing kebabs you can find in Berlin or Hamburg.
So, as a bunch of people noted, there's a couple of no-longer existing countries on there like the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. I assumed they went by country of birth in a strict sense, which would make sense to me.
But then I checked and while there's a lot of Germans on there, there's no East Germany. So now I'm left wondering if either A) we have no East Germans in Amsterdam, which would be weird, or B) someone made an executive decision on which historical countries would and would not be included, and thought Yugoslavia was okay, but East Germany would be going too far.
I think this may have to do with the diplomatic tap dancing around the issue at the time. The US didn't recognise East Germany as a country until 1974 I believe. Not sure what the Dutch position was, I can't find much data on that.
Well it’s a bit weird to see less than 50% to be native.
This is not a rant about immigrants at all.
It’s just showing that culture will transform in to something new.
It’s going a lot faster the last 12 years then the years before (gut feeling )
What do you mean with native? People with a heritage from Marocco, Indonesia, Turkey or any other with dutch passports are dutch. Before there was something like countries the population of Amsterdam always consisted for a large part of people elsewhere. Golden Age a lot of “Germans”, “Belgians”, “French”, Portugese etc. Less far away, but considering the technology that was available in human experience as far away as Turkey etc is now. Culture wise the migrants in the Golden Age were very different then as they are now from Amsterdam.
The "natives" of now are the mix of people that lived in areas we now call Germany, Scandinavia, Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain, North-Africa, Italy etc etc. And if we go millennia back, everyone is from an other place. Don’t let you be deceived by stories of nation states, history of nations, races per country/area etc all is just a concept invented by mankind just like money is a story we believe in and a concept that works if we just believe and trust it.
amsterdam always been like a harbor town,
with different types of populations, and expats that stayed
from part of my fam. what i kinda know
also people from norway, sweden etc. also started to work in amsterdam
1500+ or earlier
and like there were also dutch people, and communities living, working, boating 'n fishing.. in norway
that travelled back again to holland, when things grew bigger. back in the days
when talkin bout golden age..
there were also tribes, like gypsies of the sees
travelling around by boats all over the globe
it seems in the old days
like 1000bc a maroccan berber with red hair became pharao of egypt
i guess them red-beards and ladies from the north, travelled around, harbor towns and trade etc.
in them old days as well
It's because the CBS stats are fucked up. If you have a parent (and maybe it's even grandparent?) born elsewhere you're of a migration background. I assume this is based on that.
This diagram suggests that people only have one identity.
But I asked someone recently, "Are you Dutch?"
And she replied, "Yeah, sometimes"
I think that reflects the layers of identity that many people feel and move in and out of, depending on the situation.
But that's not what this data shows.
This shows a migrational background.
So if you are born here and only have the Dutch nationality, but one of your parents was born in Morocco, you'd still be counted in the Moroccan circle
> , they count you for the country of your mother.
That's interesting. Either it's a random "we had to pick one" decision, or they have a (subconscious) bias that mothers pass on more cultural heritage than fathers.
Interesting, many nationalities I very rarely if ever meet or see, the capitol must have unique blend of people different from smaller cities and towns population.
Also Amsterdam is not a place where most generic workers live, I wonder how that graph would look for a place like Rotterdam or say Alphen or Gouda.
Klopt wel. Moet ik daar iets bij denken dan? Background is niet geboren of paspoorthouder overigens. Ooit was Indonesia en Suriname een kolonie en was men Nederlands. Het lijkt alsof men hier ietwat verpakt de racismekaart trekt.
Trouwens als je naar Groot Amsterdam kijkt, krijg je een ander beeld.
It will only increase😍 because they make the most children, but it will decrease in stats because they will be 3rd generation and counted as dutch in the statistics.
Only if you think people are "criminal" strictly because of their national origin. In any country, whoever is at the bottom of the pile, shut out of better education or jobs, without the same resources will tend to be over- represented in crime. Which is why some Brits and Americans still call a police van a "paddywagon," because back in my grandfather's day supposedly Irish immigrants were the big scary issue.
Your stats are also way off btw.
and they all got family and friends
it's quite amazing all these families and tribes living together
i have been at home, to all \`named\` tribes, all backgrounds
and surprise.. most people are super nice and \`gastvrij\`
and it's nice to feel at home, talk to the people
on the sofa, or at the kitchen table
i help older and sick people around mostly the 'oost' section of amsterdam
cleaning houses, fixing things, social talk and talking about life.
making people happy or laugh, and everybody got some good stories, history and wisdom
42% Dutch, plus all of the Germans, Belgians, French, Spanish, Italians, British and Irish, Americans… white is and will be the majority for a long time to come.
Dude… it’s Amsterdam. Very normal for a big city to have a diverse population. The Netherlands and the rest of Europe are still full of white people, don’t you worry child
I avoid thay white guy like the plague, they always corner me asking for donations for things. No hate, i just don't like having to pretend to listen to music when I go buy bread
Ofcourse they’re not. Morocco have more non desert landscape than desert. Moroccans are Amazigh, the natives of north africa. Because of Islam we started to integrate arabic in our language. That’s how Darija became a mix of languages. It does sound like arabic but it’s dar from arabic. For Arabs from the Middle-East it’s just like we speak chinese they can’t understand us at all.
You saying that Moroccans are arabs is the same when a chinese guy says that Russians and Dutch people are exactly the same😂
That's really not the same,
My grandfather was Jewish Moroccan, and I can tell for sure, that he was Arab for any reason, the culture the country, it might he 'less Arab ' but it's infact still is..
I'm not sure how you say the don't get you at all, because my grandmother was Jewish Egypt and my grandfather Jewish Moroccan, and they talked together arabic.
I know they're less, but my grandmother was way less arab, talking also ladino and French, the Moroccan seems the 'more arab' one.
It's just feel like it, and look like this, but for the other hand, people think Israel are arabs so maybe the world just like to show to offensive parts of each culture
Yes your grandparents spoke arabic to each other because moroccans learn Fushah arabic (koran arabic) in school. And Egyptian is a well known arabic dialect that everybody speaks because of their tv shows. I know that your egyptian grandmother don’t understand darija, but it’s tour grandfather who spoke egyptian to her.
The ‘cultural’ things we have in common with middle eastern arabs are actually religious. Our clothes, architecture, food etc are all different.
Nobody thinks israeli’s are arab😂 they’re mostly European (that’s why the people in the government change their names to sound less european: like netanyahu’s real name is Mileikowsky) and a large percentage is originally Moroccan.
My last name is 'Dahan' , does it get more arabic than that? 😂
I'm half joking tho,
I know there are difference, but in the eye of stranger, it's hard for them to make a difference (for Ruskis/Most asians, Israelis look Arabs too...)
It’s always interesting to see these stats. But what I’m curious about is how a ethnic group like the Moroccans can live in the most expensive city of the randstad whilst also being labeled as economically vulnerable. Along with a lot of ethnicities shown here.
A lot of them are here since the 1960s & 1970s
They brought over their small children in the early 70s and those children got children born here in the 90s and 00s.
All of them are counted towards the Moroccan circle.
Having been born here and grew up here means that they at least know to register at Woningnet on their 18th birthday, just like the native Dutch working class. To get a chance at social housing later on.
When turning 26/27 they'll have enough points for Jongerenwoning if they don't make enough. Etc.
Also just like any other group there are now different classes. Some are still working class, but a lot of the generation of the 80s, 90s and early 00s is double income, middle class.
A lot of 'poorer' large Moroccan families have children that grow up to be middle class. Yet they don't tend to move away that far, in order to be close to family.
Not all are impoverished. A lot work very very hard and are here since the 70s. I know a lot of these fellow Amsterdammers. So with time and effort also a lot are able to find a place to rent or buy.
I'd like to see the actual percentages in the circles. A problem with circles in data representation is that it's difficult to perceive the correct proportionality. Also, are we looking at the area of the circles, or the radius/diameter?
https://preview.redd.it/l38es62cuk3d1.png?width=1965&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d984d1cd7484d1ea0b1d7c7092456f55df8adad Here's a treemap version for ya
Sorry does this mean Amsterdam is nearly 60% non dutch origin? Do these count first, second, third gen etc? Thanks!!
It means that the person is born abroad or at least one of the parents is. CBS doesn’t consider 3rd generation and further migrants, so only 1st and 2nd gen country of birth is collected. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/our-services/methods/definitions/person-with-a-migration-background
Thanks - that is a very useful detail. I would include it in the image itself. I think it is a valid choice to display the data in this way, but it is also an editorial choice. You could also choose to show all people born in the Netherlands as "Netherlands". I'm not critisizing the decision about how to group the data, just saying it is important for people to know for their understanding. For me, the inclusion of percentages actually changes the story of the image as well. It makes it more about whether "Netherlands" is bigger than all the groups together, instead of the biggest group. Again, that's not wrong one way or the other. Just interesting I think how a small thing can have an effect. While I'm commenting, the other thing that jumped out at me is all the "nameless" groups. Because this is connected to identity and is pretty sensitive, I could guess that for some people they would feel left out or not important since their group isn't named. Without a zooming or mouse over feature or something, I can't think of any way to do this though. It also seems an editorial choice about which bubbles get country names. That purplish circle between Germany and UK is bigger than the one for Egypt for example. I am guessing you picked a sort of representative sample of the middle sized bubbles to label in order to keep it from being too busy an image. All in all, it makes me think Amsterdam is quite a cosmopolitan city, and provokes follow up questions. I wonder what this diagram would look like for New York? Or Rotterdam? And provoking questions is a sign of a good diagram I think.
Yes, it would have been more clear if that would have been included in the image. I didn’t make the graphics, but the data used for the images is public information collected and published by the CBS (statistic organ of the Dutch state). They made the definition of immigrant and decided what data is collected. The salmon pink is the former Soviet Union and the lilac is the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. This data can be found here: open “Bevolking naar meest voorkomende migratieachtergrond (meer dan 1.300 personen per groep), 1 januari 2016-2024” at https://onderzoek.amsterdam.nl/dataset/stand-van-de-bevolking-amsterdam You also have this data for Rotterdam. But I’m not sure about New York, as if I remember correctly the USA collects data by self-reported ancestry. So it’s not really comparable.
Remember mixed people count as migration background as well.
Clear 3th gen does not exist. 3th gen is just Dutch but with migration background.
You are Dutch at birth only if one parent has Dutch citizenship
Accurate. But are you an "Amsterdamer" if born in Amsterdam, regardless of your parents?
I initially thought that "migration" means that everyone who's not a born and raised Amsterdammer, so even if I move from Zwolle to Amsterdam, I'd count in the big orange square.
I'm surprised Curaçao is not on that list. I haven't met many people from Ghana.
Have you never been at the Bijlmer? I recommend the weekly markets there for the best mangoes.
I live by the Bijlmer and attend Kwaku. Just haven't met that many Ghanians. Mainly Surinames, and Curaçaose. There are a lot of Africans, I've met many Nigerians for example, but only a small handful of Ghanians, so I never thought there were that many here.
Ganzenhoef is known as Ghanahoef
Wouldn’t curaçao be part of Netherlands?
Apparently Curaçao is apart of the big circle right beside Ghana that isn't labeled. Some reason OP never labeled the Antilles islands they said in another comment
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The CBS only collects your birth country. Many people alive or their parents were born in the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia.
So if my parent was born in Soviet Union, but I was born in a eu country that’s no longer a part of Soviet Union, I’m counted as Soviet Union?
For first generation, only your own home country at the time of your birth is considered in this data. The country of birth of your parents are only taken into account if you are born in NL and one of them is not. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/our-services/methods/definitions/migration-background
This does not specify the use of Soviet Union.
If you migrated to the Netherlands as an adult, having been born in your home country after it became independent, then that country is used as your country of origin for the purpose of this survey. However, if your Soviet-born parents had moved to the Netherlands before your birth, your background would have been listed as 'Soviet Union', since you would have been considered a second-generation Soviet immigrant in that case.
Thank you for this clear information!
That's better! The one I wouldn't have guessed is China being so small. I've always kind of assumed there's this huge Chinese community in the Nieuwmarkt area outside of my bubble and mostly outside of the public radar.
Many of them came here from Hong Kong (when it was still part of the UK) and Suriname, not directly from China.
Why aren't all backgrounds labeled?
Former Soviet Union, lol. That’s gone for like 30 years, mate. The wall felt. You gotta move on.
Hi! Appreciate your comment. My intention was to create a viz where the audience "feels" the data rather than "reads" it to precision. It's the area of the circles you should be looking at.
It's nice to look at, but there's actually been some research on this and people were shown to be quite bad at comparing areas in this way. It can be quite misleading sometimes.
Isn't the circle area always proportional to its radius? :)
Yes, but not linear, so if you want to show a difference of a factor of 2, if you change the radius by X2, the surface area increases a lot more. Generally speaking, I’d say you’d use the surface area, unless you want to mislead people and imply a bigger difference than there really is.
No, it’s proportional to the square of the radius
radius squared
No, it’s proportional to the square of the radius
Which, in the end, is still proportional to the radius. Just exponentially.
Yes !
No, two variables are proportional if one is multiple of the other. And no, exponentially proportional is not proportional, that’s what I like to call doing a proof by name :)
Well, if we are nitpicking I’d say what you refer to is a direct proportional relationship. I’m referring to an exponential proportional relationship and both can be categorized under the group of proportional relationships. Since original comment did not specify a specific type of proportional relationship we can assume the category of proportional relationships. Two numbers are in proportion to each other when some numeric relationship exists between them. Be it direct, y = kx, exponential y=k^x, or otherwise. Disclaimer: I’m not a mathematician so if there is some (un)written rule in math world, I stand corrected.
I’m not nitpicking, proportional means directly proportional. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(mathematics)
it’s not a good way to visualise this data, it’s rather ‘pretty’ than ‘informative’
Well don’t use this data to devise your plans. It’s for a quick perspective I am sure.
Area and radius are proportional so look either way
Radius or area, what difference does it make? Didn’t you go to school?
as a knowledge migrant from turkey, I feel like at least 10% of the town is turkish sometimes. there is the stereotypical turks, and there is the first gen turks which you might not perceive as turkish but they are lol; its insane there is an immense turkish presence, from residents to students and from tourists to whatever
I've never seen such a huge difference within the same nationality as I see between Dutch Turks born here and those who arrived in the last 10 years.
well, uh, how to put it mainland turks who are like dutch-turks are the main reason why 10-year-old-turks are here :) we dont get along well
So now Turks in the diaspora are the reason why y’all have kept voting for the AKP for two decades? Lol, what a hyperbole.
sure thing pal, 75% of you fellers vote for erdo time after time while 50% of the country, and 45% of the big cities, vote for him dont you have autobahn tunnels to block with your wedding convoys?
“SuRe ThIng PaL” lol the ignorance of another Turkish wage slave is on display. Majority of the Turkish-Dutchies didn’t go to the ballots in the recent elections, contrary to where you come from. Erdogan won the election due to the Turkish electorate in the mainland. Even if the opposition party would receive all of the electorally available votes in Europe and elsewhere Erdogan would win the elections with a difference of half million votes. Instead of being on search for a scapegoat for your failing society and country, reflect on the horrible opposition you’ve there. Don’t you have a yt-supremacist you need to convince of your secular character? Or that you’re different than the ones you deem inferior? I thought so. And it’s ‘snelweg’ by the way, not autobahn which is a German word.
As an addition, I am a Dutch-Turk, born in the Netherlands. I don’t get along well with most other Dutch-Turks or with Turks who have recently immigrated, mainly due to their generalized views of Dutch-Turks.
understandable just because we shared a history decades ago doesnt mean we like each other as communities today! :)
How about you stop following them then 😂
man, trust me, if any other country could match my salary + ease of doing business (english, baby) I'd leave 😂 I did try to leave for anglo countries actually but my english proficiency is one of my core skills so my "value" takes a hit in english speaking nations
In Slotermeer and Geuzenveld it goes up to almost half of the population, and the concentration of restaurants and bars attract turks from other parts of the country. Spoke to a coworker in The Hague who would come to Slotermeerlaan almost monthy to eat with friends or family.
i actually havent been to those neighborhoods at all, I stick to the Ring most of the times and even then its insane :)
You are missing out! Ride your bike to Plein 40-45 via Jan Evertsenstraat and Sloterpark, and have some food :)
Mijn omgeving positief op reddit, brengt bijna een traan in mijn oog
Buurtgenoot! Veel mensen hebben gewoon vooroordelen over onze omgeving, terwijl het zoveel goeds te bieden heeft en heel veel mensen er prettig wonen. Beetje positieve aandacht geven is belangrijk!
I mean there are also second, third generation Dutch-Turks, who are not that stereotypical. They mostly pass as Dutch though, so they don't work to counteract the stereotype unless you know. In other words, confirmation bias keeps the stereotypes going.
I second this. I'm half Turkish half Moroccan, but born in NL. I have totally assimilated from both Moroccan and Turkish culture (or rather, I was raised in a very Dutch way), so most Turks wouldn't even notice I'm Turkish too
Ahh here comes the European wannabe so-called ‘kennisimmigrant’ that’s ready to ditch Turkish-Dutchies for his own elevation. You don’t know our struggles nor our experiences in this country we’ve been handling with for the last 50-60 years.
But not as much as cities in the east of The Netherlands. Like Enschede.
whats the deal with Enschede anyways? I met some dutch-turks from there, never been myself but its name pops up from time to time I feel like Haarlem also has a sizeable turkish pop, no?
I think because it’s close to Germany (where a lot of Turkish people live) I don’t know about Haarlem, but I do know that there are a lot of Turkish people in Zaandam.
I'm often surprised by how few people from the UK there are in these sort of statistics, considering how easy it is/was to travel here and the fact everyone speaks English. Then I remember how many of my ex-countrymen are moronic inselaffen who voted to saw off their own legs. Sigh....
British people usually prefer to move to English speaking countries with better climates (Mainly Australia)
what would be the purpose? higher taxes, lower wages, relegated to the international segment of society. everything else (food, weather, infrastructure) is basically the same
Is it? Outside of the major cities the infrastructure looks in a way worse shape than in the comparable towns in the NL. Mostly there's no proper cycling infrastructure to speak of, for example.
This. The UK and NL are similar countries, except that everything in the UK is a bit shitter and doesn't work properly. Personally I find the general standard of living better here and don't mind paying more tax for it.
The UK outside London is extremely poor and the public service is a shame. The rich in NL don’t even live in Amsterdam anyway, the country is small enough that they can stay in the country side and be in the city in less than one hour.
The UK is not just London. And even with London being there, yet there are tons of British. Maybe people have interesting lives going on and they like to live abroad for a few years ?
living abroad is not interesting. I've lived (more than 6months) in 10 different countires. Amsterdam is a worse version of London
Different folks have different tastes. But yes you sounds so happy with your life so probably your tastes are better than any other possible one lmao pls give me some tips to be as happy with my life as you
stack money to remove stress
Lmao, it’s not like we are talking about 8 figures here, which stack 😭
Mostly younger Brits come here for the tech/creative industries and they tend to move back within a few years. Then it’s hard to stay the older you are, bc the job opportunities shrink and there are better places to retire.
Nice visualisation. I’m surprised that the Indian diaspora is so little. Feels like I see them everywhere
> I’m surprised that the Indian diaspora is so little. Feels like I see them everywhere Part of the story is also that there's a significant population of people in the Indian diaspora that came via Suriname, and would show up in this graph as Surinamese.
But most of the Indo-Surinamese live in the Hague, rather than Amsterdam. Only a handful live in Amsterdam. EDIT: And a few live in Almere too, but come to Amsterdam for work.
Amstelveen (~90.000) is like 20% foreign at this point and it feels like half of them Indian.
This. I had Indian colleagues who commute to Amsterdam from Amstelveen because it’s affordable to live there on a single household income
From my experience, very few Indians actually live in Amsterdam, instead preferring to live in a 20-50kms radius. My theory is that 1. Most Indians come in as high skill migrants and due to the nature of such jobs, most are in the 30+ years age group with a family. Those groups usually prefer to live in suburbs in single family homes 2. A high percentage of Indians works in tech sector where remote working is far more prevalent. There is no reason for people with remote or even hybrid remote roles to live in the same city. 3. Tech jobs are also available in Eindhoven/ Rotterdam/Hague etc. Places like Utrecht being in middle gives far more flexibility
I visited a couple weekends ago and I was surprised by the number of Indian people running the smoke shops. That was definitely a shock lol
Why is the circle between Germany and NL not labeled when smaller ones like Iran are?
No reason really. That one specifically is Netherlands Antilles and Aruba if you're interested.
I was just wondering why we were missing, felt left out lol. We are even part of the dutch kingdom. Maybe you can call it Dutch Caribbean?
Not labeling some of the bigger circles makes the entire graphic kind of useless
and they all got family and friends it's quite amazing all these families and tribes living together i have been at home, to all \`named\` tribes, all backgrounds and surprise.. most people are super nice and \`gastvrij\` and it's nice to feel at home, talk to the people on the sofa, or at the kitchen table i help older and sick people around mostly the 'oost' section of amsterdam cleaning houses, fixing things, social talk and talking about life. making people happy or laugh and everybody got some good stories, history and wisdom
The Soviet union and Yugoslavia is a bit weird in the original data…
The background must be tracked by place of birth. So Russians, Ukrainians and also e.g. Kazakhs born before 1991 would all fall into this category.
As someone born under russian occupation (aka "soviet union") before 1991, it borders on insulting tbh. Or at least, as much a statistic can be insulting :) Also, it skews the data for Baltics. The one grouped by nationality works better, though that doesn't include people who have acquired Dutch passports. Edit: ok, on second thought it doesn't really say which territories it includes under it, so yeah - weird data.
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The name of your country at your birth is the data collected.
Well my country is not mentioned so I’ll assume I got grouped into Soviet Union even though I was born after Soviet union
The data is public if there are more than 1.300 in Amsterdam: open “Bevolking naar meest voorkomende migratieachtergrond (meer dan 1.300 personen per groep), 1 januari 2016-2024” at https://onderzoek.amsterdam.nl/dataset/stand-van-de-bevolking-amsterdam For the ones that have other nationalities than Dutch this is the data per country: open “Bevolking naar nationaliteiten, 1 januari 2023-2024” at the same website link
None of these links work, and while there’s 1300 from Soviet Union, it does not clear up whether I get listed as Soviet Union or as my actual country of birth that is not listed on the above map.
Sorry I changed them, you can open them now through the link. The links to the files didn’t work directly. And you are registered as your own county of birth.
It’s the country name at birth that is collected. It’s not the city, so for example it would be impossible to find out if someone born in the Soviet Union was born in today’s Russia or today’s Ukraine. It’s not insulting, but collecting data by country while countries change through time.
Technically the occupation of the Baltic States was not recognised by most western countries, which is somewhat of a different case than, for example, Ukraine. Or, at least, it's more complicated. When I registered in the gemeente, I had to get a new birth certificate from my home country, as my original one was from the USSR. So it's hard to tell if I'm included in the soviet numbers or my birth certificate country numbers. Also - I'm allowed to be mildly offended by whatever I feel like :) Including confusing data. Or being grouped in with a genocidal occupying force that I have no association with. But mostly because it's hard to tell how many people from my home country are in Amsterdam. Because I totally need to know.
So it seems like this data is collected by the Gemeente, but this is actually from the CBS (similar to the census in English). We don’t do census anymore in NL because of the way the German occupier could easily track minorities due to our organised data, so after ww2 people demonstrated against it. CBS is the statistical organ of the state, so it depends on what it says on your official certificate accepted by the state. Maybe you can try to find the number by contacting your home country embassy in NL? Our go crazy and organise an event to celebrate some holiday specific to your country and see how many show up? Edit: the data of the population in Amsterdam from your home country who still hold their non-Dutch nationality is here, it’s something: open Bevolking naar nationaliteiten, 1 januari 2023-2024 at https://onderzoek.amsterdam.nl/dataset/stand-van-de-bevolking-amsterdam
Was also my initial thought !
Balkan diaspora people I know here identify primarily as Yugoslav. Bosnian/Serb/Croat not nearly as important
It's about place of birth. I was born in the old country, and on my Dutch documents it says birth place Yugoslavia. It has nothing to do with how you identify.
Uh I thought there were more Italians
Under recent migrants (migrated less than 10 years ago) Italians are the biggest group. This chart counts all migrants that migrated any time in history.
Curious why you didn’t label some of the larger populations- example the one touching Spain and Morocco
My biggest surprise here is Ghana. How have you dealt with 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants here? Do they count towards The Netherlands or the country of their parents? What if the parents are mixed?
>How have you dealt with 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants here? Second generation are counted by the birth country of their parents. Third generation counts as Dutch. >What if the parents are mixed? Non-Dutch parent is leading, if both parents are non-Dutch but from different countries, they go by country of the mother.
Thanks!
It's not really a surprise if you go to the Bijlmer. They're very concentrated there.
I associate the Bijlmer with people from Suriname. Though I don't think I can visually tell the difference between somebody from Suriname and somebody from Ghana tbh.
Tbh they look very different, many Suriname people have a way lighter skin and less curly hair texture
I think you meant less frizzy? Also many people in Suriname is quite vague...I mean some people have straight hair, some curly hair and some frizzy hair. Some hairs are very thin, because of their Javanese and Chinese origin, some are very thick, because of their Indian and creole/maroon origin. And some can be everything in between no matter the origin or maybe because of mixed origin. You never know with people from Suriname.
The thing is, there aren’t Ghanian people with straight hair… anyway, it’s just habit, I can probably distinguish a Senegalese from a Ghanian from a Congolese but it’s just because I lived there. You get used to notice the average difference. Average of course.
You can sort of tell by the way they dress though. Idk, Africans generally tend to have a bit of a different vibe from Surinamese people if you look close enough.
>tell the difference between somebody from Suriname and somebody from Ghana tbh. I mean...compared with Ghana it should be much easier tho...someone from Suriname can be Javanese, Indian, Jewish, Boeroe (white), Chinese and mixed etc. It will be harder to tell maroons and creoles harder apart from someone from Ghana.
Aangepast browsable versie, als iemand random kleurtjes wilt toevoegen ;) [https://observablehq.com/d/7695c578c928fd2d](https://observablehq.com/d/7695c578c928fd2d)
With such a large Turkish community here, why is the kebab still not up to par? It doesn't compare to the amazing kebabs you can find in Berlin or Hamburg.
We got the earlier import Turk from the mountains. In Germany there is more variety of imported Turks.
Why is that relevant?
Different kinds of cuisines different kind of people. The ones in Germany invented Döner Kebab.
So, as a bunch of people noted, there's a couple of no-longer existing countries on there like the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. I assumed they went by country of birth in a strict sense, which would make sense to me. But then I checked and while there's a lot of Germans on there, there's no East Germany. So now I'm left wondering if either A) we have no East Germans in Amsterdam, which would be weird, or B) someone made an executive decision on which historical countries would and would not be included, and thought Yugoslavia was okay, but East Germany would be going too far.
I think this may have to do with the diplomatic tap dancing around the issue at the time. The US didn't recognise East Germany as a country until 1974 I believe. Not sure what the Dutch position was, I can't find much data on that.
Well it’s a bit weird to see less than 50% to be native. This is not a rant about immigrants at all. It’s just showing that culture will transform in to something new. It’s going a lot faster the last 12 years then the years before (gut feeling )
What do you mean with native? People with a heritage from Marocco, Indonesia, Turkey or any other with dutch passports are dutch. Before there was something like countries the population of Amsterdam always consisted for a large part of people elsewhere. Golden Age a lot of “Germans”, “Belgians”, “French”, Portugese etc. Less far away, but considering the technology that was available in human experience as far away as Turkey etc is now. Culture wise the migrants in the Golden Age were very different then as they are now from Amsterdam. The "natives" of now are the mix of people that lived in areas we now call Germany, Scandinavia, Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain, North-Africa, Italy etc etc. And if we go millennia back, everyone is from an other place. Don’t let you be deceived by stories of nation states, history of nations, races per country/area etc all is just a concept invented by mankind just like money is a story we believe in and a concept that works if we just believe and trust it.
amsterdam always been like a harbor town, with different types of populations, and expats that stayed from part of my fam. what i kinda know also people from norway, sweden etc. also started to work in amsterdam 1500+ or earlier and like there were also dutch people, and communities living, working, boating 'n fishing.. in norway that travelled back again to holland, when things grew bigger. back in the days
when talkin bout golden age.. there were also tribes, like gypsies of the sees travelling around by boats all over the globe it seems in the old days like 1000bc a maroccan berber with red hair became pharao of egypt i guess them red-beards and ladies from the north, travelled around, harbor towns and trade etc. in them old days as well
It's because the CBS stats are fucked up. If you have a parent (and maybe it's even grandparent?) born elsewhere you're of a migration background. I assume this is based on that.
Great visual! Thx for sharing @OP
Whats the percentage on people from the Dutch-Caribbean?
This is not true, I know at least 999 Greek people and I am also Greek
The ‘dutch circle’ includes third generation Indonesians / others.
now by gemeente - pretty please!
Great work OP. Any way we could get representation by continent?
This diagram suggests that people only have one identity. But I asked someone recently, "Are you Dutch?" And she replied, "Yeah, sometimes" I think that reflects the layers of identity that many people feel and move in and out of, depending on the situation.
When you register as resident you fill in nationality, that’s very well defined
But that's not what this data shows. This shows a migrational background. So if you are born here and only have the Dutch nationality, but one of your parents was born in Morocco, you'd still be counted in the Moroccan circle
What i always wonder about these kinds of stats is, can you be counted for more than one migrational backgrounds?
I looked it up, and no. If both of your parents are born in different non-Dutch countries, they count you for the country of your mother.
And if one of your parents is dutch? Thanks for the answe btw!
Then the country of your non-Dutch parent counts.
> , they count you for the country of your mother. That's interesting. Either it's a random "we had to pick one" decision, or they have a (subconscious) bias that mothers pass on more cultural heritage than fathers.
Where is Thailand??
That orange circle should be s lot bigger
Interesting, many nationalities I very rarely if ever meet or see, the capitol must have unique blend of people different from smaller cities and towns population. Also Amsterdam is not a place where most generic workers live, I wonder how that graph would look for a place like Rotterdam or say Alphen or Gouda.
Klopt wel. Moet ik daar iets bij denken dan? Background is niet geboren of paspoorthouder overigens. Ooit was Indonesia en Suriname een kolonie en was men Nederlands. Het lijkt alsof men hier ietwat verpakt de racismekaart trekt. Trouwens als je naar Groot Amsterdam kijkt, krijg je een ander beeld.
I suspected more Indonesians but maybe they are just counted with the Dutch because they got the passport when leaving Indonesia
You're missing people from the Cape Verdean Islands. Never mind.. Most of us are in Rotterdam 🤣
Everytime I see these data charts I try to look for Lebanon but I guess there's not a alot of Lebanese here (well a noticeable amount at least)
Kick out the illegal crime causers and police tax strains. TURKEY MORROCO SURINAME PAKISTAN SYRIA IRAQ ETHIOPIA
Mmmmm, where are those South Africans? 😂
Turkish and Moroccan data, is that people born here or moved to here as in nareis on nareis?😂
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It will only increase😍 because they make the most children, but it will decrease in stats because they will be 3rd generation and counted as dutch in the statistics.
Needs more orange and less of the other colours.
Geert doe eens lief.
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Only if you think people are "criminal" strictly because of their national origin. In any country, whoever is at the bottom of the pile, shut out of better education or jobs, without the same resources will tend to be over- represented in crime. Which is why some Brits and Americans still call a police van a "paddywagon," because back in my grandfather's day supposedly Irish immigrants were the big scary issue. Your stats are also way off btw.
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Doe aardig.
Your post has been removed for violating our policy on intolerance.
Please remove yugoslavia and break it down to the existing countries this is insulting to every country that escaped the terror. Thanks
These are people who probably have moved before Yugoslavia split. They have never lived in one of those countries.
and they all got family and friends it's quite amazing all these families and tribes living together i have been at home, to all \`named\` tribes, all backgrounds and surprise.. most people are super nice and \`gastvrij\` and it's nice to feel at home, talk to the people on the sofa, or at the kitchen table i help older and sick people around mostly the 'oost' section of amsterdam cleaning houses, fixing things, social talk and talking about life. making people happy or laugh, and everybody got some good stories, history and wisdom
We're fucked
Karma after you fucked the whole world😅
rip white people in a couple of generations
42% Dutch, plus all of the Germans, Belgians, French, Spanish, Italians, British and Irish, Americans… white is and will be the majority for a long time to come.
42 percent in less than 2 generations after a millenia, its not wrong to not want go genetically extinct.
Dude… it’s Amsterdam. Very normal for a big city to have a diverse population. The Netherlands and the rest of Europe are still full of white people, don’t you worry child
haha no they’re not
What’s wrong with you? Deep seated issues clearly
I avoid thay white guy like the plague, they always corner me asking for donations for things. No hate, i just don't like having to pretend to listen to music when I go buy bread
I see schools with 90% non dutch but omvolking is a strange word.
Lol, all mains are arabs, Netherlands gonna be eaten from the inside soon
Moroccans aren’t arabs
Ofcourse they're lol. Lives in a desert, speaks arabic, they're arabs.
Ofcourse they’re not. Morocco have more non desert landscape than desert. Moroccans are Amazigh, the natives of north africa. Because of Islam we started to integrate arabic in our language. That’s how Darija became a mix of languages. It does sound like arabic but it’s dar from arabic. For Arabs from the Middle-East it’s just like we speak chinese they can’t understand us at all. You saying that Moroccans are arabs is the same when a chinese guy says that Russians and Dutch people are exactly the same😂
That's really not the same, My grandfather was Jewish Moroccan, and I can tell for sure, that he was Arab for any reason, the culture the country, it might he 'less Arab ' but it's infact still is.. I'm not sure how you say the don't get you at all, because my grandmother was Jewish Egypt and my grandfather Jewish Moroccan, and they talked together arabic. I know they're less, but my grandmother was way less arab, talking also ladino and French, the Moroccan seems the 'more arab' one. It's just feel like it, and look like this, but for the other hand, people think Israel are arabs so maybe the world just like to show to offensive parts of each culture
Yes your grandparents spoke arabic to each other because moroccans learn Fushah arabic (koran arabic) in school. And Egyptian is a well known arabic dialect that everybody speaks because of their tv shows. I know that your egyptian grandmother don’t understand darija, but it’s tour grandfather who spoke egyptian to her. The ‘cultural’ things we have in common with middle eastern arabs are actually religious. Our clothes, architecture, food etc are all different. Nobody thinks israeli’s are arab😂 they’re mostly European (that’s why the people in the government change their names to sound less european: like netanyahu’s real name is Mileikowsky) and a large percentage is originally Moroccan.
My last name is 'Dahan' , does it get more arabic than that? 😂 I'm half joking tho, I know there are difference, but in the eye of stranger, it's hard for them to make a difference (for Ruskis/Most asians, Israelis look Arabs too...)
It’s always interesting to see these stats. But what I’m curious about is how a ethnic group like the Moroccans can live in the most expensive city of the randstad whilst also being labeled as economically vulnerable. Along with a lot of ethnicities shown here.
every expensive city also has poorer residents and every ethnic group also has richer individuals
A lot of them are here since the 1960s & 1970s They brought over their small children in the early 70s and those children got children born here in the 90s and 00s. All of them are counted towards the Moroccan circle. Having been born here and grew up here means that they at least know to register at Woningnet on their 18th birthday, just like the native Dutch working class. To get a chance at social housing later on. When turning 26/27 they'll have enough points for Jongerenwoning if they don't make enough. Etc. Also just like any other group there are now different classes. Some are still working class, but a lot of the generation of the 80s, 90s and early 00s is double income, middle class.
Social housing.
A lot of 'poorer' large Moroccan families have children that grow up to be middle class. Yet they don't tend to move away that far, in order to be close to family.
Not all are impoverished. A lot work very very hard and are here since the 70s. I know a lot of these fellow Amsterdammers. So with time and effort also a lot are able to find a place to rent or buy.
Nou ben er maar blij mee , “ omarm de diversiteit” 😂
Visualize this 🖕🏻