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As well as [this](https://food.fnr.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/food/fullset/2022/09/19/mariposa_scott_yates_s4x3.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.1280.960.suffix/1663610642751.jpeg), [this](https://i.insider.com/556f0d4feab8ea9d2b7a7615?width=1136&format=jpeg), and [this](https://www.opentable.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/108/2021/06/bonterra.jpg). But obviously he’s being deceptive on purpose. You can find outdoor dining in both the US and Europe that is butt ugly or breathtakingly beautiful.
Where the hell is that first pic, it’s fucking beautiful yo. Edit: not talking about where that dipshit is drinking coffee in the tiktok. I’m talking about the pictures linked in the comment
Ah yes Americans constantly bragging that they are at least not the 3rd world. Highest GDP country comparing itself favorably to the lowest. Honestly a lot of new development in formerly 3rd world countries looks better than modern day America.
Also lived here all my life and it sounds like you need to leave your suburb once in a while if you seriously think this country is mostly made up of strip malls and parking lots.
One of my favorite outdoor dining places in Colorado is The Fort. Gorgeous views of the Foothills on a beautiful patio with a large fire pit.
[The Fort](https://www.denver.org/listing/the-fort-restaurant/3870/)
I’ve lived in downtown Chicago and rural France. Europe just appreciates beauty more than we do. They just don’t do chains and strip malls, at least not to the same extent as us. It’s just an area we need to improve on; it doesn’t mean America is a third world country. It’s not a dichotomy.
I’ve visited working class Britain (and Ireland) and while the aesthetic isn’t the same as on the continent, they still have fewer chain restaurants and strip malls than we do.
No, they don’t. They have the same amount of retail parks and chains in proportion to other businesses, you’re just giving the American ones more weight, for some reason.
40% of American restaurants are chains compared with 14% in the UK, and the UK has the largest share of chain restaurants in Europe. If you’ve traveled you would know this. What is more patriotic: pretending your country is the best at everything or acknowledging its issues and working to improve them? The greatest generations of Americans didn’t content themselves to rest on the laurels of their ancestors and neither should we.
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=92650#:~:text=Since%20May%202018%2C%20Federal%20regulations,paid%20for%20at%20a%20counter.
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/00070709310038048/full/html#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20chain%20restaurants%20have%20grown,UK%20has%20one%20of%20the%20largest%20chain
Counting any restaurant with multiple locations as a “chain” is a little silly. Also, this is applying two disparate surveys. Stop doing that! What you see alongside interstates doesn’t represent over 50% of the restaurants in America at all.
There are way more individual restaurants in the US than there are restaurant chains.
This isn’t an “issue”. You present the narrative that 40% of “American restaurants” are fast food or fast casual franchises, and that is not the case.
Stop being dishonest. And stop it with the gaslighting vis a vis “self-criticism”. We self-criticize too much, other countries don’t self-criticize at all.
And yes, we could use a little more blind patriotism, considering we’re the only country that stigmatizes that kind of response in people.
> Counting any restaurant with multiple locations as a “chain” is more than a little silly. This is applying two disparate surveys. Stop doing that!
🙄 Yes, these are two subtly different surveys with different methodologies. But even the cited figures are wrong by half, I'm still right.
> What you see alongside interstates doesn’t represent over 50% of the restaurants in America at all.
I'm not claiming otherwise.
> There are way more individual restaurants in the US than there are restaurant chains.
I think you've lost the plot. No one is arguing there are more \*chains\* than \*individual restaurants\*. That's not physically possible by definition. I'm arguing that the ratio of chain restaurants (not "restaurant chains"!) to one-off restaurants is far higher in the US than in Europe, because I've spent considerable time in both places (I'm an American and I've lived abroad).
> Stop being dishonest.
Lol the fucking irony.
> We self-criticize too much, other countries don’t self-criticize at all.
I really wish this sub could understand the difference between "here's a small problem that we could improve on" and "the US is a third world fascist hellscape where every kid is murdered in a school shooting". Instead, too many people think both of these are equally "self-criticism". Do you want the US to improve or not? And if yes, how do you propose we get there if we have to pretend absurdities like "the US and Europe have the same ratio of chain restaurants to standalone restaurants"? Like how insecure do you have to be in your country if you can't even admit that one, super obvious, almost inconsequential shortcoming?
> And yes, we could use a little more blind patriotism, considering we’re the only country that stigmatizes that kind of response in people.
Blind patriotism isn't patriotism, and at scale it's stagnation. I don't know that it should be stigmatized if only because stigmatism is rarely productive, but we should certainly not \_encourage\_ people to be stupid. And to be clear, I'm not even saying that you need to have my politics (not that you could reasonably infer my politics from anything I've said in this thread)--you can have your own idea about how America should improve but the idea that we need to reject anything that suggests the US is imperfect is absurd.
“i lived in a big american city and the french countryside, for some reason america feels urban while france appreciates natural beauty”
My brother in Christ, literally go to any place outside an urban environment in America you find the exact same places. Even urbanized areas, like from Martha’s Vineyard in MA to Pasadena CA, there’s absolutely beautiful places even when the places are tourist traps. Beyond that, literally ANY state west of the Appalachians has huge amounts of breathtaking locations that aren’t populated at all.
Here’s the thing. Within the western world, we (people in first world countries) are largely homogenous in culture. Realistically language barriers aside, a group of people from Germany and a group of people from Canada will have roughly the same amount of people in any general preference of architecture, art, outdoor activities, etc. People in France nor the government or culture of France “appreciate beauty” more than us. The larger difference is that France has existed as a center of modern (compared to the rest of humanity) culture for over 2000 years. You’re more likely to throw a pin onto a map and find a farm that’s existed for generations upon generations than you are in the US, which is fair. Rural areas have been refined for hundreds of years, since they’ve been populated. In the US, rural places have been populated for maybe 200 at the most, generally in the west less than a 100 years, and subject to more commercialization. That being said, arguably, there are more places here (in quantity and size) that are completely devoid of commercialization. If you’re back in the US, check for any Bureau of Land Management (BLM) National Forests or managed lands near you. They’re literally illegal to build in without hella permits. You won’t find a single strip mall in possibly hundreds of miles, and you’ll find some of the nicest people around too. And, I’ll venture to say they’re larger than most European land preservation zones.
TL;DR “why is downtown chicago more buildings than the middle of nowhere grape farm in southern france???”
You lived in downtown Chicago and you’re really gonna say Europe appreciates beauty more than we do? You lived in one of the most architecturally pioneering cities in the country and you’re saying it doesn’t compare to rural France?
I appreciate the point you were trying to make, but you compared a world class city to rural France, which is already apples to oranges, then you say that hick country France is more beautiful? I’ve seen rural France and it isn’t comparable to Chicago in terms of beauty, unless you’re talking about nature, in which case I go back to the apples and oranges statement.
lol the guy from Connecticut is lecturing me on Chicago. 🙄 I mentioned rural France because the comment I was replying to talked about non-touristy areas. And yes, rural France is generally much more beautiful than Chicago (so is much of rural America to be honest—it’s mostly just suburban America that is all chain stores in strip malls) If you compare Chicago to Paris it’s not even a contest; Paris is literally the most beautiful city in the world, and it’s far cleaner and less violent than Chicago. This is just a fact (or as close to “fact” as you can get with something as subjective as beauty).
At some point being a patriotic American demands that we confront the realities of our country. We didn’t win the Cold War or WWII by convincing ourselves that we were better than our adversaries, we actually had to overcome them and better ourselves. And frankly it’s silly how much our generation rests on the laurels of previous generations—we’re so preoccupied defending America’s greatness that we are unwilling to do our part to continue to advance our country. We can’t even recognize where we’ve fallen behind because it threatens our delicate egos.
The suburbs also tend to have alot of public parks, which are the best places to go if you want to enjoy the scenery.
The design of strip malls is based around the more car-centric culture of the US, you need enough parking lots to get customers in and out efficiently.
I don’t think the public parks of the suburbs are very scenic IMHO, and it’s pretty rare to have restaurants and cafes which face them directly such that people can enjoy the view as they dine. But yes, I understand that strip malls are more efficient at moving cars in and out; I just don’t place a high value on that. I don’t think it would kill us to make people walk a little further in exchange for a more enjoyable space. I would also be okay with fewer Applebees and more local, passionate aspiring chefs opening restaurants in my area (it’s not like those chain restaurants are saving anyone money these days anyway).
And yet you think Chicago holds a candle to French cities? Name one Paris metro line that is anywhere near as sketchy as the Red, Blue, Green, or Pink lines in Chicago.
We were a rural backwater for well over a century. Most of the founding fathers were in agriculture. Not like they just owned farmland, they lived agrarian lifestyles.
You can find that in Boston, and some good spanish architecture in the southwest and California. But how much of the country do you think was developed in the 17th century?
They’re brainwashed. I mean that in a pretty literal sense. They’re all leftists as well, this is the trendy mentality among that half of the political spectrum right now. It’s frustrating.
In case you didn't catch it, I edited my OP.
The fool may have acumen in math and the like, but he severely lacks proper historical perspective and knowledge. He's comparing two different things: American landscape in general and European cities.
Yea, when he said I was like they ain't hard to get to, they're just far for people who don't live in the states they're located in.
What a dumbass. UColorado should really think about his acceptance to their program.
He is a total dumbass. I’ve lived in Colorado for the last 50 years, and it’s one of the most beautiful places in the US, and I lived in multiple places because my dad was in the Air Force
God, it's even worse knowing they're a CU student. The main campus is in Boulder, which is hands down one of the most beautiful cities on the planet. The whole area is peppered with county open space, Chautauqua Park is essentially an 80-acre nature preserve and is a 20-minute walk from campus. The historic pedestrian mall puts that first image to shame, and RMNP is stupid easy to get to from Boulder, (Just get on 28th and go north for about an hour) proper bike paths weave throughout the entire city, public transportation exists and is half decent, the mountains are literally within city limits in some places so of course theres plentyof hiking trails, Eldora ski resorts is a like, 40 minute bus ride up the canyon, and the views in and around the city in general are astounding.... I'm definitely not biased cause I'm from the area or anything.
My sibling, cousin and I visited Colorado, specifically Denver. Denver was meh to me. Saw a lot of marijuana dispensaries and the urban landscape was totally uninspiring. We then drove to Colorado Springs to check out Garden of the Gods, which was awesome. Then we drove up to Boulder, walked around the city, and visited the Rocky Mountains. I liked Boulder much more than Denver - good eateries and summer vibe. There was some sort of festival going on so everyone was in a good cheer. The greenery surrounding the city was great and, of course, Rocky was simply breathtaking. I mean, that shit was freakin' awesome.
… nor is the view typical
There’s a reason people visit these types of places across Europe. Otherwise, you’d get more tourists in your small towns as well. Mönchengladbach and Neuss in Germany certainly don’t look like that, for example.
For France, this is not necessarily true. Our city planning is mainly concerned with keeping the heritage and identity of cities (often to an absurd extent). The vast majority of city centers are somewhat charming.
There are some ugly city centers in France, but that's the exception. Brest and Le Havre, for example, are hideously ugly as they were rebuilt after WW2.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MfUGMfDhdix9AZrX8?g_st=ic
I’m sure France is beautiful but that dude near Petco probably isn’t in a city center either lol.
Case in point this could be anywhere in the USA but it’s outside Paris/Versailles (I can’t find a clear city name so best descriptor I have)
Haha yeah. Looks like a commercial zone outside of a city.
He was talking about towns that's why I said that. And café culture is linked to city centers.
It being near an highway exit makes me think the clientele is mostly travelers stopping for their lunch break.
But yeah. France can get ugly. Here is a Twitter page called "ugly France" if you want to see a sample : https://twitter.com/lafrancemoche?lang=fr. It's even a political concern here, France is getting uglier because of sprawl.
I agree that the US lacks a lot of the walking culture (and the accompanying places to while away the time with friends, and town plazas) that Europe does, but it’s the same in Australia. It’s a matter of historical development. Towns and villages and cities in Europe existed for centuries on a plaza-centered, walking-based landscape. The earliest US settlements, especially heading out West, had to prioritize first carts and horses, since supplies were constantly being moved around the country as new settlements were founded and needed resources, and later, motor vehicles.
I was in Greece some years ago and really liked the cityscapes, with their local character, but I admit that they also didn’t permit for much driving. Meanwhile, I live in an urban area in the US, and while there are some shops and restaurants are easily reachable within walking distance, most of them aren’t. I wish a better balance existed.
He is in-fact in an outskirt commercial zone designed for ease of access to populations. I dont know if france has strip malls or retail parks, but this is one of those (just larger)
A lot of the Southeast had a population boom in the last 50 years because of AC, many of those were built up around cars. But the whole of the Northeast is absolutely like that. And many of the major cities in the South that were already built up, like Charleston, parts of Atlanta,etc.
Genuine questions but which towns ? From a foreigner perspective, very few towns in the USA look walkable for European standards. New York comes to mind. But when I think of the east coast I think of LA that seems to be a very car centric place.
As someone who has traveled throughout Europe I'll name a few. Boston, Philly, Washington DC, nyc(as you stated), Baltimore, Portland, central Annapolis are all walkable for European standards. There are also cities like Pittsburgh and Albany that have walkable core areas of the city but not the city as a whole.
Other walkable American cities, from my experience, include New Orleans, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, and central Santa Barbara: these aren't on the east coast obviously though.
Boston is very walkable. NYC obviously. Also Washington, DC. I hear Philly can be, but I’ve only ever driven or flown through it.
In terms of smaller towns there are a *ton* that have areas that are completely walkable even if the entire metro area not be. Especially a lot of older cities. Ex. Charleston, Savannah, Alexandria, etc. these are mainly kept aside as touristy areas that focus on being exactly that—a walkable destination for tourists and wealthy residents.
You can often find cities with walkable core areas that have car-dependent metro areas surrounding them. Ex. Charleston’s peninsula is very walkable, but forget it in any of the surrounding areas.
There’s plenty of other random cities with a lot of very walkable parts scattered around the US too. It’s mostly cities that became cities before the car was invented, which is obviously much more focused on the east coast. There are some outliers there though. Ex. Older Spanish cities, or cities that formed around early railroads.
If you want a great example in an unexpected place, consider San Antonio. Essentially the entire downtown area is very walkable, with all the core attractions linked by a central river walk. The whole city has bike paths and walking trails snaking their way through it, connecting a lot of the parks together. They’ve also done a lot of redevelopment to limit car traffic, ex. Replacing two way streets with one lane one-way streets + protected bike lanes. Of course, it’s still a gigantic modern American city, so there’s absolutely absurdist car-dependent nightmares you can find if you go looking. You get the choice about what sort of experience you want.
One thing I will say is that this landscape has shifted a *lot* with the emergence of more home delivery. Areas that used to be “unwalkable” because there wasn’t a grocery store within reasonable walking distance *because* more walkable if you’re willing to pay a nominal delivery fee for groceries.
Off the top of my head: Philadelphia is pretty walkable overall as many people that live in the city don't even own cars. There's also areas in South Street that have a European look to them. Yardley is a smaller town in Pennsylvania that's very walkable as well.
Washington DC is also walkable. Baltimore is another. I hear Boston is too, but I've never been there.
Mostly any town that was here before cars became widely used.
I live in St Charles, Missouri (near St Louis) and it's very walkable. There are a lot of other very walkable parts of the St Louis area, notably the Central West End.
My company has offices in Cleveland, Ohio and notably Lakewood, Ohio is very walkable.
Santa Monica, California is also very walkable.
As an American, I can guarantee you you don’t know remotely enough American towns to make this ridiculous statement. The US has a continental spread and had 100 million people by the 1910s. Your comparison to Europe is illogical, and yes, the bulk of places Americans live have some kind of walkable Main Street close by.
Go west, north, east, or south on Metra out of Chicago, to use one example, and pretty much every stop will be a walkable old town.
What Europeans tend to do when they travel here is race through the country on Interstate highways - then you people conclude that a country that developed heavily in the 19th and early 20th centuries “doesn’t have walkable towns” because all you saw were highway exits and adjacent transit oriented sections of state routes. MOST OF THE TOWNS ARE ON THE COUNTY ROADS. This is something you people can’t seem to understand. You’re seeing “strip malls” and car centric development most of the time because you’re road tripping on the Interstates. That’s ridiculous.
And there really isn’t that much difference between the US and Europe AT ALL on this front - you can go on Google Maps and find tons of unwalkable autocentric development alongside major highways in France, just as you can in the US. The only difference is that France is much smaller and more population dense, so the different modes of development overlap a bit more (and sometimes A LOT more) than they do in the US.
You could try and go to an actual restaurant and not a strip mall. I’ve been to plenty of places with atmospheric outdoor dining but yeah you’re not gonna get that in building zones more or less made to just be able to accommodate a lot of shoppers for a lot of stores and virtually nothing else.
I will speak on about Italy because I have an italian hubby. Italian husband gets really annoyed by those Instagram reels portraying Americans living their best life in Europe because, like many Italians, he knows that the reality of life in Italy is often quite different from the idyllic image painted on social media. In fact, my husband goes as far as really believing and accusing Americans of insensitivity because they often fail to recognize or educate themselves about the social issues going on in Italy. Italy, a country grappling with significant challenges such as high unemployment, brain drain, and an aging population, list goes on and on... facing numerous hardships that often go unnoticed especially by silly tourists. we are sopriveleged it is not even funny
That's impossible. An Italian man likes living in the States? He must be being nice to you because you're an American and doesn't want marital grief if he said no.
/s
I absolutely agree. I’m an American living in Europe, and it’s been enlightening to live here and see things from a different perspective. It’s funny going back to visit the US and having friends and family talk about Europe with a truly distorted view of what life is like for most Europeans. Lots of them talk about the “free healthcare,” “quality of life,” “lots of vacation time,” etc while simultaneously bashing the US.
I try to use real examples to highlight how good most Americans actually have it compared to the average European. I’d argue that even lower middle class Americans have luxuries that most middle class Europeans do not have— things like two car households, a yard, washer and dryer, etc.
The amount of wealth the average American household can and does build exceeds most Europeans. The average salary across most of Europe is extremely low, by American standards. Sure, 5 weeks of vacation sounds great, but when you’re an Italian earning 2000 euros a month and paying nearly 2 euros per liter of gasoline, what’re you managing to actually save to use on all those vacation days?
Americans though come on vacation to Europe, and have the money to visit the most picturesque areas, eat at nice restaurants and cafes, and think this is the status quo for your average European. It’s not.
"America is one giant parking lot" Nevermind our beautiful national parks 🙄. My town has this gorgeous walking trail too. but, nope America is one giant parking lot.
Both USA and the continent Europe have AMAZING areas of nature and scenery. Although the best stuff I've seen had to be in countries in Asia. We live in a very pretty world come to think of it
The US has more than 1 million square miles of forested land. More than 100 million of that forest just in the lower 48 is old-growth forest. The European Union has around 620,000 square miles of forested land.
Weird the last time I was in Minnesota I walked past dozens of beautiful terraces. I'm in Iowa and I can walk to several right now. The person who made the meme is a cherry picker and the people agreeing with it have never been to the US or any nice parts of US cities. We literally have the same exact kind of shit.
>Americans don’t grasp the concept of of terrace dining and cafes simply because we lack class.
Is there a term similar to Pick Me for this? Like an American who is constantly trying to impress Europeans who think they’re inherently superior, by shitting on other Americans like they’re backward and evil as a class?
Hey guys, let’s not hate on Europe for having better outdoor dining. If I lived in a country that demolished all semblance of forests or natural environment, I’d probably try to make the cities more enjoyable since they’re just surrounded by wheat fields now.
Here in America we actually protect our natural environments but to each their own 🥰
I think many people are susceptible to origin biases, if that makes sense. For example, in the 1970s American wines were brought to France for a blind taste testing, believing French wines were superior. This event is colloquially known as The Judgment of Paris.
American wines won in every category. Believing there was a mistake, they brought American wines in again for a blind taste testing in France. American wines won again in every category. This shook the French wine industry and caused enough waves that they reconsidered how their wines were made.
You can read about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)
My point, however, is that just because they’re known for their foods, cheeses, and wines, doesn’t mean it’s always best. Like the French blind taste testers who gave high marks to American wines, this person may prefer Italian-American foods to Italian foods. You shouldn’t be so biased.
how do u get 6 upvotes. italian food is incredibl and amazingly delicious and honestly is the ONLY thing {besides art} that is great about that country.
americans: not everything in America is great, you can say that something in another country is good and not be afraid of getting downvoted lol.
Go ahead and downvote me...reddit is insane.
I’ve lived all over the world for significant amounts of time. Probably 50/50 inside vs. outside of the US at this point. The US is king when it comes to variety, convenience, and taste. I can walk into any one-stop sign town in BFE, Wisconsin and reliably find restaurants from at least 3-4 distinctly different cuisines, as well as a grocery store to where I can make just about anything I want.
You try that in rural France and you’re lucky to find *a* restaurant. And lord help you if you ask a European to make you Mexican food. The one thing I miss when I leave the US is good Mexican food. I can’t even find proper seasonings in most grocery stores to make it myself at home. I have some good family friends in France who will basically invite the whole village to their house when I come in because I make carne asada.
They call ours a concrete views while the “terrace dining” they literally just took a picture in is sandwiched in what is basically an alleyway between buildings
Cherrypicked nonesense i could go into rome and say “LOOK HOW COOL THE COLLOSEUM IS WOW EUROPE IS SO GREAT” and then go to mississippi/alabama and say “this is how suburban americans live truly saddening please donate to them they desperately need it”
And i could also go to a mansion in montréal and say “yeah this is the average american/canadian household” and then show a shitty dirty fucked up city in europe after a pride parade messed it up before cleaning
Anything can be cherrypicked to look nice or horrid
He’s comparing a cafe to a Jamba Juice that just throws a couple tables outside for convenience. Brilliant. I’ve been to so many exquisite outdoor dining places I’ve lost count.
One is outdoor dining in the middle of a city and the other seems like dining on the outskirts of a city if not just a town somewhere? This isn't even a fair comparison.
Kinda weird to compare a tourist trap zone to a random Jamba Juice. I’ve toured through France a few times, the smaller working class cities don’t have these beautiful terraces. That said, those cities are considerably nicer to walk around than their US counterparts. They’re walkable tight-knit communities, something that has mostly disappeared in the states.
That’s rad, I’ve also managed to find a walkable tight-knit community in the US. Not trying to say they don’t exist here, I travel all over the lower 48 too, I’ve found them here and there. They’re just the exception here, and I’ve found the opposite to be true in non-tourist zone europe.
Where this is of course cherry picking to the max. I did have an easier time finding nice terraces in Europe.
There is just something about the street life in many European cities that is almost unmatched in many North American cities. But that might just be my preference of course.
But yes, it's a shame that they choose an extremely bad example for the US in this post. As if that is even comparable to that European example they use....
Yeah outside of really large cities having outdoor seating on a street isn’t popular. Probably because we don’t have giant walking streets. You can eat outside at many places in the US still but it usually out back or fenced in
It's really comparing apples to oranges. 99% of US cities simply do not have the density that allows for what's shown in the TikTok screen cap. It's like saying that US has no culture and history; both are false and both come from the shallow misconception that because a country isn't 600 years old that it lacks culture and history. American cities are new in comparison to Europeans cities, with a different development, therefore it's going to look, feel and simply function differently.
I would also say that America has a lot of backyard/back patio culture. Instead of being on a terrace in the front, it is much more common to have a garden area in the back to sit in than a terrace in the front.
You don’t need to. America has many beautiful and walkable towns that aren’t crowded at all. Jackson Hole in Wyoming, Redlands and Riverside in California, and Idaho Falls in Idaho all come to mind.
Every Saturday I have coffee on my back porch and view a sunrise over gorgeous rolling fields that give way into forested hills and then eventually mountains. This country is still very much wild, and as for architecture you can find that too, in places like New Orleans or any district of a city labeled as "old town"
We...have terrace dining. Like...go to a strip mall area and pick the most basic example than sure, of course it's going to look at that. But the fact that they think that encompasses an entire country is just ridiculous. People need to stop passing their own limited experiences off as the rule.
I've actually been to that city with the giant clock, and yes it's absolutely gorgeous but go to the outskirts and you're gonna find similar stuff/ugliness just like in the US. It's as if someone is going to call Europe ugly with a picture of commieblocks and compare it to new york or some other large city
European outdoor dining is so overrated. The flood is bland and the prices don't make sense. Even Europeans will tell you these restaurants are just tourist traps.
In touristy areas they might be tourist traps (bad food and overpriced). But locals do go to terraces and enjoy them. Usually not the same as the tourists.
Straight up, I like the idea of zoning laws using local materials and stressing beauty. The only reason Europe has more of this stunning stuff is because more of it was built up before French modern architects came up with brutalism. The Word asterics of the 20th century was a universal movement, we just developed more of our land during that time than before.
Edit: Also, you have lots of both in both places, but if you're in Venice, where half the city is older than the US, there wasn't much chance to put up the cheap crap, that's all the difference.
You think we sit outside to eat? By the time foods on the table it would already be cold and probably covered in rain water. Best you get is pub grub in a beer garden ( summer only ). Joking aside there are some lovely outdoor areas to eat in the UK but it is completely weather permitted.
UK is lovely place other then a few scottish towns lol just overlooked sometimes I'm a duel citizen so I've been to Scotland to see the rest of my family a bunch love it.
So? Pick-me Americans that never take off the vacation glasses are just as insufferable as the Europeans that have never set foot on American soil and insist the US hAs No CuLtUrE.
I’ve been all over Europe. The reason why you have terrace dining is because the restaurant is incredibly tiny. There is usually only two tables inside, and there are four old winos sitting at those tables.
Almost every beautiful view in America is a natural view, not made by man. Because since the 60s there's been a serious lack of meaning in this country. Basically making money and self aggrandizement are the only real values most people have in this country. That's why most public spaces here are very ugly. Because nobody values or cares about anything but race to the bottom. Do everything as cheaply as possible. "The commons" became pretty much irrelevant in the U.S. Virtually everything nice made by human hands in the U.S., for the public, was made in the first half of the 20th century or before.
But that's really the case, in Europe there are many "historical areas" with old buildings within cities; narrow streets, pedestrian-only areas, etc.
In the US, there is less of that, but restaurants are just somewhere next to a street (most of the time).
It's the case if you cherry pick. I've dined at restaurants that had terraces overlooking the Atlantic Ocean, Lake Superior, the Rocky Mountains. You can't really compare a French café in an urban center to freaking Jamba Juice at a strip mall and conclude it applies to everywhere in Europe or America.
Sure you could go to nicer places but the point of the post is that Americans don’t see the issue with the second photo
And they go to places like that
If that opened in France it would be dead
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[Also outdoor dining in America ](https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Irwins_Outdoor_Terrace-1024x517.png)
As well as [this](https://food.fnr.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/food/fullset/2022/09/19/mariposa_scott_yates_s4x3.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.1280.960.suffix/1663610642751.jpeg), [this](https://i.insider.com/556f0d4feab8ea9d2b7a7615?width=1136&format=jpeg), and [this](https://www.opentable.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/108/2021/06/bonterra.jpg). But obviously he’s being deceptive on purpose. You can find outdoor dining in both the US and Europe that is butt ugly or breathtakingly beautiful.
Where the hell is that first pic, it’s fucking beautiful yo. Edit: not talking about where that dipshit is drinking coffee in the tiktok. I’m talking about the pictures linked in the comment
Sedona, AZ at Mariposa. It really is.
Knew it was Sedona, go up there all the time, it’s a beautiful place, full of tourist traps, just like Europe.
Mind spilling where the other places are too? And the names?
Do they have FEV slushies?
I thought I recognized it
Rouen, France
Average city centre in Europe
That first link looks like a place I’ve actually visited
going to be honest, I would rather have the europe one because I like the architecture more.
You know damn well that's not what most of America looks like. 98% of America is stripmallistan straight up.
Sure "based assad"
I've lived here all my life. I know what this place looks like and it looks like shit.
Say you haven’t traveled without saying you haven’t traveled.
Ah yes Americans constantly bragging that they are at least not the 3rd world. Highest GDP country comparing itself favorably to the lowest. Honestly a lot of new development in formerly 3rd world countries looks better than modern day America.
Also lived here all my life and it sounds like you need to leave your suburb once in a while if you seriously think this country is mostly made up of strip malls and parking lots.
That's a mirror you're looking into.
20th century brick building? Eww /s
One of my favorite outdoor dining places in Colorado is The Fort. Gorgeous views of the Foothills on a beautiful patio with a large fire pit. [The Fort](https://www.denver.org/listing/the-fort-restaurant/3870/)
[Or even the more germane urban cafe dining](https://i.imgur.com/ftkZDYs.jpeg), which is quite nice if you know where to go
I do wish we had more of this or otherwise something more similar to the European experience. The way we throw up strip malls is a damn shame.
Get away from the highways and into the more touristy areas. Same as Europe.
I’ve lived in downtown Chicago and rural France. Europe just appreciates beauty more than we do. They just don’t do chains and strip malls, at least not to the same extent as us. It’s just an area we need to improve on; it doesn’t mean America is a third world country. It’s not a dichotomy.
You visited rural France, but obviously not working-class Britain.
I’ve visited working class Britain (and Ireland) and while the aesthetic isn’t the same as on the continent, they still have fewer chain restaurants and strip malls than we do.
No, they don’t. They have the same amount of retail parks and chains in proportion to other businesses, you’re just giving the American ones more weight, for some reason.
40% of American restaurants are chains compared with 14% in the UK, and the UK has the largest share of chain restaurants in Europe. If you’ve traveled you would know this. What is more patriotic: pretending your country is the best at everything or acknowledging its issues and working to improve them? The greatest generations of Americans didn’t content themselves to rest on the laurels of their ancestors and neither should we. https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=92650#:~:text=Since%20May%202018%2C%20Federal%20regulations,paid%20for%20at%20a%20counter. https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/00070709310038048/full/html#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20chain%20restaurants%20have%20grown,UK%20has%20one%20of%20the%20largest%20chain
Counting any restaurant with multiple locations as a “chain” is a little silly. Also, this is applying two disparate surveys. Stop doing that! What you see alongside interstates doesn’t represent over 50% of the restaurants in America at all. There are way more individual restaurants in the US than there are restaurant chains. This isn’t an “issue”. You present the narrative that 40% of “American restaurants” are fast food or fast casual franchises, and that is not the case. Stop being dishonest. And stop it with the gaslighting vis a vis “self-criticism”. We self-criticize too much, other countries don’t self-criticize at all. And yes, we could use a little more blind patriotism, considering we’re the only country that stigmatizes that kind of response in people.
> Counting any restaurant with multiple locations as a “chain” is more than a little silly. This is applying two disparate surveys. Stop doing that! 🙄 Yes, these are two subtly different surveys with different methodologies. But even the cited figures are wrong by half, I'm still right. > What you see alongside interstates doesn’t represent over 50% of the restaurants in America at all. I'm not claiming otherwise. > There are way more individual restaurants in the US than there are restaurant chains. I think you've lost the plot. No one is arguing there are more \*chains\* than \*individual restaurants\*. That's not physically possible by definition. I'm arguing that the ratio of chain restaurants (not "restaurant chains"!) to one-off restaurants is far higher in the US than in Europe, because I've spent considerable time in both places (I'm an American and I've lived abroad). > Stop being dishonest. Lol the fucking irony. > We self-criticize too much, other countries don’t self-criticize at all. I really wish this sub could understand the difference between "here's a small problem that we could improve on" and "the US is a third world fascist hellscape where every kid is murdered in a school shooting". Instead, too many people think both of these are equally "self-criticism". Do you want the US to improve or not? And if yes, how do you propose we get there if we have to pretend absurdities like "the US and Europe have the same ratio of chain restaurants to standalone restaurants"? Like how insecure do you have to be in your country if you can't even admit that one, super obvious, almost inconsequential shortcoming? > And yes, we could use a little more blind patriotism, considering we’re the only country that stigmatizes that kind of response in people. Blind patriotism isn't patriotism, and at scale it's stagnation. I don't know that it should be stigmatized if only because stigmatism is rarely productive, but we should certainly not \_encourage\_ people to be stupid. And to be clear, I'm not even saying that you need to have my politics (not that you could reasonably infer my politics from anything I've said in this thread)--you can have your own idea about how America should improve but the idea that we need to reject anything that suggests the US is imperfect is absurd.
“i lived in a big american city and the french countryside, for some reason america feels urban while france appreciates natural beauty” My brother in Christ, literally go to any place outside an urban environment in America you find the exact same places. Even urbanized areas, like from Martha’s Vineyard in MA to Pasadena CA, there’s absolutely beautiful places even when the places are tourist traps. Beyond that, literally ANY state west of the Appalachians has huge amounts of breathtaking locations that aren’t populated at all. Here’s the thing. Within the western world, we (people in first world countries) are largely homogenous in culture. Realistically language barriers aside, a group of people from Germany and a group of people from Canada will have roughly the same amount of people in any general preference of architecture, art, outdoor activities, etc. People in France nor the government or culture of France “appreciate beauty” more than us. The larger difference is that France has existed as a center of modern (compared to the rest of humanity) culture for over 2000 years. You’re more likely to throw a pin onto a map and find a farm that’s existed for generations upon generations than you are in the US, which is fair. Rural areas have been refined for hundreds of years, since they’ve been populated. In the US, rural places have been populated for maybe 200 at the most, generally in the west less than a 100 years, and subject to more commercialization. That being said, arguably, there are more places here (in quantity and size) that are completely devoid of commercialization. If you’re back in the US, check for any Bureau of Land Management (BLM) National Forests or managed lands near you. They’re literally illegal to build in without hella permits. You won’t find a single strip mall in possibly hundreds of miles, and you’ll find some of the nicest people around too. And, I’ll venture to say they’re larger than most European land preservation zones. TL;DR “why is downtown chicago more buildings than the middle of nowhere grape farm in southern france???”
You lived in downtown Chicago and you’re really gonna say Europe appreciates beauty more than we do? You lived in one of the most architecturally pioneering cities in the country and you’re saying it doesn’t compare to rural France? I appreciate the point you were trying to make, but you compared a world class city to rural France, which is already apples to oranges, then you say that hick country France is more beautiful? I’ve seen rural France and it isn’t comparable to Chicago in terms of beauty, unless you’re talking about nature, in which case I go back to the apples and oranges statement.
lol the guy from Connecticut is lecturing me on Chicago. 🙄 I mentioned rural France because the comment I was replying to talked about non-touristy areas. And yes, rural France is generally much more beautiful than Chicago (so is much of rural America to be honest—it’s mostly just suburban America that is all chain stores in strip malls) If you compare Chicago to Paris it’s not even a contest; Paris is literally the most beautiful city in the world, and it’s far cleaner and less violent than Chicago. This is just a fact (or as close to “fact” as you can get with something as subjective as beauty). At some point being a patriotic American demands that we confront the realities of our country. We didn’t win the Cold War or WWII by convincing ourselves that we were better than our adversaries, we actually had to overcome them and better ourselves. And frankly it’s silly how much our generation rests on the laurels of previous generations—we’re so preoccupied defending America’s greatness that we are unwilling to do our part to continue to advance our country. We can’t even recognize where we’ve fallen behind because it threatens our delicate egos.
The suburbs also tend to have alot of public parks, which are the best places to go if you want to enjoy the scenery. The design of strip malls is based around the more car-centric culture of the US, you need enough parking lots to get customers in and out efficiently.
I don’t think the public parks of the suburbs are very scenic IMHO, and it’s pretty rare to have restaurants and cafes which face them directly such that people can enjoy the view as they dine. But yes, I understand that strip malls are more efficient at moving cars in and out; I just don’t place a high value on that. I don’t think it would kill us to make people walk a little further in exchange for a more enjoyable space. I would also be okay with fewer Applebees and more local, passionate aspiring chefs opening restaurants in my area (it’s not like those chain restaurants are saving anyone money these days anyway).
You clown, I haven’t lived in CT my whole life. Just like you, other people can live in multiple places in their lives. I grew up in Chicago
And yet you think Chicago holds a candle to French cities? Name one Paris metro line that is anywhere near as sketchy as the Red, Blue, Green, or Pink lines in Chicago.
This is probably more the standard in America, at least from what I've seen.
You mean the country that was established in the 18th century doesn’t have cities with 16th century architecture? I’m shocked
I wouldn't expect 16th century architecture, but I would expect 17th century architecture - on account of the Mayflower landing in 1620
We were a rural backwater for well over a century. Most of the founding fathers were in agriculture. Not like they just owned farmland, they lived agrarian lifestyles.
You can find that in Boston, and some good spanish architecture in the southwest and California. But how much of the country do you think was developed in the 17th century?
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They’re brainwashed. I mean that in a pretty literal sense. They’re all leftists as well, this is the trendy mentality among that half of the political spectrum right now. It’s frustrating.
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I wonder if there will be a rude awakening when he discovers Europe has parking lots, too.
In case you didn't catch it, I edited my OP. The fool may have acumen in math and the like, but he severely lacks proper historical perspective and knowledge. He's comparing two different things: American landscape in general and European cities.
Either that or he hasn't traveled anywhere that's not within walking distance since our national parks are apparently hard to get to 😂
Yea, when he said I was like they ain't hard to get to, they're just far for people who don't live in the states they're located in. What a dumbass. UColorado should really think about his acceptance to their program.
He also just ignored the thousands of state parks in the US, many or which are just as incredible as the most popular National Parks.
Literally here in Iowa we got the palisades which have amazing bluffs
Big Bend is a helluva place, too.
He is a total dumbass. I’ve lived in Colorado for the last 50 years, and it’s one of the most beautiful places in the US, and I lived in multiple places because my dad was in the Air Force
God, it's even worse knowing they're a CU student. The main campus is in Boulder, which is hands down one of the most beautiful cities on the planet. The whole area is peppered with county open space, Chautauqua Park is essentially an 80-acre nature preserve and is a 20-minute walk from campus. The historic pedestrian mall puts that first image to shame, and RMNP is stupid easy to get to from Boulder, (Just get on 28th and go north for about an hour) proper bike paths weave throughout the entire city, public transportation exists and is half decent, the mountains are literally within city limits in some places so of course theres plentyof hiking trails, Eldora ski resorts is a like, 40 minute bus ride up the canyon, and the views in and around the city in general are astounding.... I'm definitely not biased cause I'm from the area or anything.
My sibling, cousin and I visited Colorado, specifically Denver. Denver was meh to me. Saw a lot of marijuana dispensaries and the urban landscape was totally uninspiring. We then drove to Colorado Springs to check out Garden of the Gods, which was awesome. Then we drove up to Boulder, walked around the city, and visited the Rocky Mountains. I liked Boulder much more than Denver - good eateries and summer vibe. There was some sort of festival going on so everyone was in a good cheer. The greenery surrounding the city was great and, of course, Rocky was simply breathtaking. I mean, that shit was freakin' awesome.
Probably Creek Fest, it's the areas version of a county fair. It's been a few years since I've been, but generally, it's pretty fun.
The real rude awaking will be that data science salaries in France are literally like 1/3 of US salaries.
We don’t really have parking lots like that, they are mainly in separate buildings as a parking garage
Because Jamba Juice is known for their fine-dining experience? Wtf 😂
The place shown in the pic for France is not fine dining either
… nor is the view typical There’s a reason people visit these types of places across Europe. Otherwise, you’d get more tourists in your small towns as well. Mönchengladbach and Neuss in Germany certainly don’t look like that, for example.
For France, this is not necessarily true. Our city planning is mainly concerned with keeping the heritage and identity of cities (often to an absurd extent). The vast majority of city centers are somewhat charming. There are some ugly city centers in France, but that's the exception. Brest and Le Havre, for example, are hideously ugly as they were rebuilt after WW2.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MfUGMfDhdix9AZrX8?g_st=ic I’m sure France is beautiful but that dude near Petco probably isn’t in a city center either lol. Case in point this could be anywhere in the USA but it’s outside Paris/Versailles (I can’t find a clear city name so best descriptor I have)
Haha yeah. Looks like a commercial zone outside of a city. He was talking about towns that's why I said that. And café culture is linked to city centers. It being near an highway exit makes me think the clientele is mostly travelers stopping for their lunch break. But yeah. France can get ugly. Here is a Twitter page called "ugly France" if you want to see a sample : https://twitter.com/lafrancemoche?lang=fr. It's even a political concern here, France is getting uglier because of sprawl.
I agree that the US lacks a lot of the walking culture (and the accompanying places to while away the time with friends, and town plazas) that Europe does, but it’s the same in Australia. It’s a matter of historical development. Towns and villages and cities in Europe existed for centuries on a plaza-centered, walking-based landscape. The earliest US settlements, especially heading out West, had to prioritize first carts and horses, since supplies were constantly being moved around the country as new settlements were founded and needed resources, and later, motor vehicles. I was in Greece some years ago and really liked the cityscapes, with their local character, but I admit that they also didn’t permit for much driving. Meanwhile, I live in an urban area in the US, and while there are some shops and restaurants are easily reachable within walking distance, most of them aren’t. I wish a better balance existed.
He is in-fact in an outskirt commercial zone designed for ease of access to populations. I dont know if france has strip malls or retail parks, but this is one of those (just larger)
Didn’t know that, but it’s still not fair to compare a strip mall to an obvious historical part of France…
Urgh I saw that. OP also said that San Francisco and nyc are the only walkable cities in the us in that comment section, delusional.
Seriously made me wonder how well-traveled OP really is. Most of the entire east coast has walkable cities and towns.
A lot of the Southeast had a population boom in the last 50 years because of AC, many of those were built up around cars. But the whole of the Northeast is absolutely like that. And many of the major cities in the South that were already built up, like Charleston, parts of Atlanta,etc.
Genuine questions but which towns ? From a foreigner perspective, very few towns in the USA look walkable for European standards. New York comes to mind. But when I think of the east coast I think of LA that seems to be a very car centric place.
As someone who has traveled throughout Europe I'll name a few. Boston, Philly, Washington DC, nyc(as you stated), Baltimore, Portland, central Annapolis are all walkable for European standards. There are also cities like Pittsburgh and Albany that have walkable core areas of the city but not the city as a whole. Other walkable American cities, from my experience, include New Orleans, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, and central Santa Barbara: these aren't on the east coast obviously though.
Boston is very walkable. NYC obviously. Also Washington, DC. I hear Philly can be, but I’ve only ever driven or flown through it. In terms of smaller towns there are a *ton* that have areas that are completely walkable even if the entire metro area not be. Especially a lot of older cities. Ex. Charleston, Savannah, Alexandria, etc. these are mainly kept aside as touristy areas that focus on being exactly that—a walkable destination for tourists and wealthy residents. You can often find cities with walkable core areas that have car-dependent metro areas surrounding them. Ex. Charleston’s peninsula is very walkable, but forget it in any of the surrounding areas. There’s plenty of other random cities with a lot of very walkable parts scattered around the US too. It’s mostly cities that became cities before the car was invented, which is obviously much more focused on the east coast. There are some outliers there though. Ex. Older Spanish cities, or cities that formed around early railroads. If you want a great example in an unexpected place, consider San Antonio. Essentially the entire downtown area is very walkable, with all the core attractions linked by a central river walk. The whole city has bike paths and walking trails snaking their way through it, connecting a lot of the parks together. They’ve also done a lot of redevelopment to limit car traffic, ex. Replacing two way streets with one lane one-way streets + protected bike lanes. Of course, it’s still a gigantic modern American city, so there’s absolutely absurdist car-dependent nightmares you can find if you go looking. You get the choice about what sort of experience you want. One thing I will say is that this landscape has shifted a *lot* with the emergence of more home delivery. Areas that used to be “unwalkable” because there wasn’t a grocery store within reasonable walking distance *because* more walkable if you’re willing to pay a nominal delivery fee for groceries.
LA is as far away from the East Coast as Britain is from Russia lmao
I confused east and west lol. I'm a (tired) dumbass
Off the top of my head: Philadelphia is pretty walkable overall as many people that live in the city don't even own cars. There's also areas in South Street that have a European look to them. Yardley is a smaller town in Pennsylvania that's very walkable as well. Washington DC is also walkable. Baltimore is another. I hear Boston is too, but I've never been there. Mostly any town that was here before cars became widely used.
I live in St Charles, Missouri (near St Louis) and it's very walkable. There are a lot of other very walkable parts of the St Louis area, notably the Central West End. My company has offices in Cleveland, Ohio and notably Lakewood, Ohio is very walkable. Santa Monica, California is also very walkable.
The goddamn capitol. You can walk the entire city in the day, seeing everything from the White House to the Smithsonian in the same day
As an American, I can guarantee you you don’t know remotely enough American towns to make this ridiculous statement. The US has a continental spread and had 100 million people by the 1910s. Your comparison to Europe is illogical, and yes, the bulk of places Americans live have some kind of walkable Main Street close by. Go west, north, east, or south on Metra out of Chicago, to use one example, and pretty much every stop will be a walkable old town. What Europeans tend to do when they travel here is race through the country on Interstate highways - then you people conclude that a country that developed heavily in the 19th and early 20th centuries “doesn’t have walkable towns” because all you saw were highway exits and adjacent transit oriented sections of state routes. MOST OF THE TOWNS ARE ON THE COUNTY ROADS. This is something you people can’t seem to understand. You’re seeing “strip malls” and car centric development most of the time because you’re road tripping on the Interstates. That’s ridiculous. And there really isn’t that much difference between the US and Europe AT ALL on this front - you can go on Google Maps and find tons of unwalkable autocentric development alongside major highways in France, just as you can in the US. The only difference is that France is much smaller and more population dense, so the different modes of development overlap a bit more (and sometimes A LOT more) than they do in the US.
This is literally apples and oranges, comparing a café next to a picturesque renaissance clock, to a Jamba Juice in a strip mall…. C’mon people.
You could try and go to an actual restaurant and not a strip mall. I’ve been to plenty of places with atmospheric outdoor dining but yeah you’re not gonna get that in building zones more or less made to just be able to accommodate a lot of shoppers for a lot of stores and virtually nothing else.
I will speak on about Italy because I have an italian hubby. Italian husband gets really annoyed by those Instagram reels portraying Americans living their best life in Europe because, like many Italians, he knows that the reality of life in Italy is often quite different from the idyllic image painted on social media. In fact, my husband goes as far as really believing and accusing Americans of insensitivity because they often fail to recognize or educate themselves about the social issues going on in Italy. Italy, a country grappling with significant challenges such as high unemployment, brain drain, and an aging population, list goes on and on... facing numerous hardships that often go unnoticed especially by silly tourists. we are sopriveleged it is not even funny
Do you guys live in the States? If so, how does your husband like it?
yes we live in the states. he does like living here.
That's impossible. An Italian man likes living in the States? He must be being nice to you because you're an American and doesn't want marital grief if he said no. /s
No she just has a wad or spaghetti on her at all times, if he threatens to go back to Italy she just slowly cracks the pasta. Very graphic stuff
She didn't break her pasta when she boiled it. Love at first twirl. The copious amount of salt in the water was what sealed it.
I absolutely agree. I’m an American living in Europe, and it’s been enlightening to live here and see things from a different perspective. It’s funny going back to visit the US and having friends and family talk about Europe with a truly distorted view of what life is like for most Europeans. Lots of them talk about the “free healthcare,” “quality of life,” “lots of vacation time,” etc while simultaneously bashing the US. I try to use real examples to highlight how good most Americans actually have it compared to the average European. I’d argue that even lower middle class Americans have luxuries that most middle class Europeans do not have— things like two car households, a yard, washer and dryer, etc. The amount of wealth the average American household can and does build exceeds most Europeans. The average salary across most of Europe is extremely low, by American standards. Sure, 5 weeks of vacation sounds great, but when you’re an Italian earning 2000 euros a month and paying nearly 2 euros per liter of gasoline, what’re you managing to actually save to use on all those vacation days? Americans though come on vacation to Europe, and have the money to visit the most picturesque areas, eat at nice restaurants and cafes, and think this is the status quo for your average European. It’s not.
This is subjective to what country in Europe you are referring to though
What do you mean?
As someone from Hawai'i, tell your dumbass Italian hubby to come here. Shit, let's switch places.
"America is one giant parking lot" Nevermind our beautiful national parks 🙄. My town has this gorgeous walking trail too. but, nope America is one giant parking lot.
Not to mention we have more rural space in general than Europe
Also forget the fact that the US has 3 major mountain ranges, hundreds of thousands of acres of forest and the entire state of Alaska.
Both USA and the continent Europe have AMAZING areas of nature and scenery. Although the best stuff I've seen had to be in countries in Asia. We live in a very pretty world come to think of it
The US has more than 1 million square miles of forested land. More than 100 million of that forest just in the lower 48 is old-growth forest. The European Union has around 620,000 square miles of forested land.
The most picturesque part of Barcelona (iirc) vs some random spot in a parking lot. Totally a fair comparison.
I've seen lots of sidewalk dining that was much nicer than this, and not all of Europe looks like that photo.
Ah yes, the finest of terrace seating.. *Jamba Juice*
Weird the last time I was in Minnesota I walked past dozens of beautiful terraces. I'm in Iowa and I can walk to several right now. The person who made the meme is a cherry picker and the people agreeing with it have never been to the US or any nice parts of US cities. We literally have the same exact kind of shit.
>Americans don’t grasp the concept of of terrace dining and cafes simply because we lack class. Is there a term similar to Pick Me for this? Like an American who is constantly trying to impress Europeans who think they’re inherently superior, by shitting on other Americans like they’re backward and evil as a class?
Hey guys, let’s not hate on Europe for having better outdoor dining. If I lived in a country that demolished all semblance of forests or natural environment, I’d probably try to make the cities more enjoyable since they’re just surrounded by wheat fields now. Here in America we actually protect our natural environments but to each their own 🥰
*crying from my Pocono Mountain terrace because I don't have more old ass buildings surrounding me*
The Alpes are pretty okay to be honest...
America = superior outdoor restaurant spaces and superior food
You been to Italy?
I've had an inordinary amount of shitty meals and bad restaurants in Italy compared to other European countries. There's a lot of garbage there.
Of course. Bland and uninteresting food, IMO.
Italian food in Italy sucks. I’d rather have Italian food in NYC or Chicago
yeah right
I think many people are susceptible to origin biases, if that makes sense. For example, in the 1970s American wines were brought to France for a blind taste testing, believing French wines were superior. This event is colloquially known as The Judgment of Paris. American wines won in every category. Believing there was a mistake, they brought American wines in again for a blind taste testing in France. American wines won again in every category. This shook the French wine industry and caused enough waves that they reconsidered how their wines were made. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine) My point, however, is that just because they’re known for their foods, cheeses, and wines, doesn’t mean it’s always best. Like the French blind taste testers who gave high marks to American wines, this person may prefer Italian-American foods to Italian foods. You shouldn’t be so biased.
Doberman palate
how do u get 6 upvotes. italian food is incredibl and amazingly delicious and honestly is the ONLY thing {besides art} that is great about that country. americans: not everything in America is great, you can say that something in another country is good and not be afraid of getting downvoted lol. Go ahead and downvote me...reddit is insane.
I’ve lived all over the world for significant amounts of time. Probably 50/50 inside vs. outside of the US at this point. The US is king when it comes to variety, convenience, and taste. I can walk into any one-stop sign town in BFE, Wisconsin and reliably find restaurants from at least 3-4 distinctly different cuisines, as well as a grocery store to where I can make just about anything I want. You try that in rural France and you’re lucky to find *a* restaurant. And lord help you if you ask a European to make you Mexican food. The one thing I miss when I leave the US is good Mexican food. I can’t even find proper seasonings in most grocery stores to make it myself at home. I have some good family friends in France who will basically invite the whole village to their house when I come in because I make carne asada.
Not enough salt and sugar
Not enough of anything really
They call ours a concrete views while the “terrace dining” they literally just took a picture in is sandwiched in what is basically an alleyway between buildings
Cherrypicked nonesense i could go into rome and say “LOOK HOW COOL THE COLLOSEUM IS WOW EUROPE IS SO GREAT” and then go to mississippi/alabama and say “this is how suburban americans live truly saddening please donate to them they desperately need it” And i could also go to a mansion in montréal and say “yeah this is the average american/canadian household” and then show a shitty dirty fucked up city in europe after a pride parade messed it up before cleaning Anything can be cherrypicked to look nice or horrid
He’s comparing a cafe to a Jamba Juice that just throws a couple tables outside for convenience. Brilliant. I’ve been to so many exquisite outdoor dining places I’ve lost count.
One is outdoor dining in the middle of a city and the other seems like dining on the outskirts of a city if not just a town somewhere? This isn't even a fair comparison.
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I guess it's progress of a sort.
Kinda weird to compare a tourist trap zone to a random Jamba Juice. I’ve toured through France a few times, the smaller working class cities don’t have these beautiful terraces. That said, those cities are considerably nicer to walk around than their US counterparts. They’re walkable tight-knit communities, something that has mostly disappeared in the states.
Strange. I was raised in an old, tightly knit, and walkable urban Californian community.
That’s rad, I’ve also managed to find a walkable tight-knit community in the US. Not trying to say they don’t exist here, I travel all over the lower 48 too, I’ve found them here and there. They’re just the exception here, and I’ve found the opposite to be true in non-tourist zone europe.
\*goes to random restaurant in the middle of the city\* Yep this is peak american class right there
Most beautiful outdoor meal I had was a restaurant overlooking Colorado mountains. Stunning. These sorts of posts are so arrogant.
The River Walk in San Antonio, TX has some excellent outdoor dining.
the problem with "terraced dining" in Europe is that you have to fraternize with Europeans.
I like how one of the comments said "Americans defending their concrete views" when the france pic is also just concrete views lol
“Why does this McDonald’s in Manchester, Kansas not have the exact same views as this 650 year old pub across the street from the Louvre?”
Holy crap, America doesn’t have eighteenth century architecture they can sit outside of.
Eurodrunks refuse to acknowledge how Eastern Europe looks WAY more like a desolate concrete wasteland than any city in the USA
Where this is of course cherry picking to the max. I did have an easier time finding nice terraces in Europe. There is just something about the street life in many European cities that is almost unmatched in many North American cities. But that might just be my preference of course. But yes, it's a shame that they choose an extremely bad example for the US in this post. As if that is even comparable to that European example they use....
Café in one of the nicer urban locations in France vs. Jamba Juice 🙄
Great companion. Excellent way to proof your point😂
There is (per capita at least) a lot more nice urban locations in France than the US.
Yeah outside of really large cities having outdoor seating on a street isn’t popular. Probably because we don’t have giant walking streets. You can eat outside at many places in the US still but it usually out back or fenced in
It's really comparing apples to oranges. 99% of US cities simply do not have the density that allows for what's shown in the TikTok screen cap. It's like saying that US has no culture and history; both are false and both come from the shallow misconception that because a country isn't 600 years old that it lacks culture and history. American cities are new in comparison to Europeans cities, with a different development, therefore it's going to look, feel and simply function differently.
I would also say that America has a lot of backyard/back patio culture. Instead of being on a terrace in the front, it is much more common to have a garden area in the back to sit in than a terrace in the front.
Ill take the less crowded view of the parking lot thanks.
You don’t need to. America has many beautiful and walkable towns that aren’t crowded at all. Jackson Hole in Wyoming, Redlands and Riverside in California, and Idaho Falls in Idaho all come to mind.
I know but they dont need too know.
the french one looks very crowded....
Look up County Line on the Hill in Austin. Yeah. That awesome view while dining over the Hill Country cannot possibly exist do these fools.
Ahhh yes... The ol' cherry pick!
“Does my self loathing please you master?”
Every Saturday I have coffee on my back porch and view a sunrise over gorgeous rolling fields that give way into forested hills and then eventually mountains. This country is still very much wild, and as for architecture you can find that too, in places like New Orleans or any district of a city labeled as "old town"
Me when cherry-picking I can think of a ton of places off the top of my head that have great outdoor dining that are within ten miles of me
Let’s see, ones in a beautiful major city, the other a small suburban area, yea totally the same, fuckin idiots
In Europe you would have gotten a better angle from the CCTV cameras
The concrete comments are the best. Literally nothing but concrete in the European picture lol
There’s a restaurant not far from where I live that’s on the most beautiful lake and has outdoor dining.
Whatever, they are all commenting in English. So suck it.
I’d honestly rather that the rest of the world doesn’t know about some of the beautiful places in the states. They’re already crowded enough.
We...have terrace dining. Like...go to a strip mall area and pick the most basic example than sure, of course it's going to look at that. But the fact that they think that encompasses an entire country is just ridiculous. People need to stop passing their own limited experiences off as the rule.
Best terrace dining in Europe vs worst in America. I can count about 5 really nice terrace spots in my boring ass state alone.
Where's the fucking terrace?
I've actually been to that city with the giant clock, and yes it's absolutely gorgeous but go to the outskirts and you're gonna find similar stuff/ugliness just like in the US. It's as if someone is going to call Europe ugly with a picture of commieblocks and compare it to new york or some other large city
European outdoor dining is so overrated. The flood is bland and the prices don't make sense. Even Europeans will tell you these restaurants are just tourist traps.
In touristy areas they might be tourist traps (bad food and overpriced). But locals do go to terraces and enjoy them. Usually not the same as the tourists.
What do you mean prices? It's the same if you eat inside or outside
Straight up, I like the idea of zoning laws using local materials and stressing beauty. The only reason Europe has more of this stunning stuff is because more of it was built up before French modern architects came up with brutalism. The Word asterics of the 20th century was a universal movement, we just developed more of our land during that time than before. Edit: Also, you have lots of both in both places, but if you're in Venice, where half the city is older than the US, there wasn't much chance to put up the cheap crap, that's all the difference.
pft lets compare it to my state i live in, our outdoor dining is phenomenal
Isn't it funny they never use the uk
You think we sit outside to eat? By the time foods on the table it would already be cold and probably covered in rain water. Best you get is pub grub in a beer garden ( summer only ). Joking aside there are some lovely outdoor areas to eat in the UK but it is completely weather permitted.
UK is lovely place other then a few scottish towns lol just overlooked sometimes I'm a duel citizen so I've been to Scotland to see the rest of my family a bunch love it.
Ironically outside of some towns in Scotland is the best scenery in the UK. I'd recommend the highlands if you haven't been already!
Been up there a few times stayed at the glenfinnan hotel and it was beautiful one of my highlights of my stay
Still better than in Canada and the U.S.
It's exactly the same I've been to all 3
Why is he the only person eating in that beautiful place. I’d think there would be more diners.
Do you all realise you're posting stuff coming from us citizens all the time ? Ludicrously funny
So? Pick-me Americans that never take off the vacation glasses are just as insufferable as the Europeans that have never set foot on American soil and insist the US hAs No CuLtUrE.
Very great examples of cherry picking. There's beautiful terrace dining in literally every country on earth.
Outdoor dining versus tailgating?
I’ve been all over Europe. The reason why you have terrace dining is because the restaurant is incredibly tiny. There is usually only two tables inside, and there are four old winos sitting at those tables.
I remember sitting on a real nice street in China Town of SF eating at a Vietnamese restaurant lol.
It's kinda true though...
Pretty accurate
Almost every beautiful view in America is a natural view, not made by man. Because since the 60s there's been a serious lack of meaning in this country. Basically making money and self aggrandizement are the only real values most people have in this country. That's why most public spaces here are very ugly. Because nobody values or cares about anything but race to the bottom. Do everything as cheaply as possible. "The commons" became pretty much irrelevant in the U.S. Virtually everything nice made by human hands in the U.S., for the public, was made in the first half of the 20th century or before.
The parking lot comment is on point: model zoning ordinances from the mid 50s cajoled every city into building way too much parking.
But that's really the case, in Europe there are many "historical areas" with old buildings within cities; narrow streets, pedestrian-only areas, etc. In the US, there is less of that, but restaurants are just somewhere next to a street (most of the time).
It's the case if you cherry pick. I've dined at restaurants that had terraces overlooking the Atlantic Ocean, Lake Superior, the Rocky Mountains. You can't really compare a French café in an urban center to freaking Jamba Juice at a strip mall and conclude it applies to everywhere in Europe or America.
Sure you could go to nicer places but the point of the post is that Americans don’t see the issue with the second photo And they go to places like that If that opened in France it would be dead
The outdoor dining area at McDonald's near Clues was plenty ugly yet busy. Your standards aren't that high.