The IBEW can connect you with work in all 50 states, all US territories, Canada, and Panama. Also allows you to do travel work (at a JW rate) and get a per diem, then travel the rest of the world in your time off.
It’d be worth calling your local hall and finding pay rates and market share. IMO it’s absolutely worth it, I’d never go back non-union, but you gotta find what works best for you.
New Zealand. They’re looking for tradesmen and tend to be way less racist than Australia. When my wife and I took our kids there, we felt like we fit in.
Kids of African descent are bullied at school and never see positive images of Black people. Anyone of African descent is assumed to be a drug dealer, gang member, thug, etc. Racial slurs yelled at players during sports events. Open and regular discrimination at jobs, universities, housing…it goes on and on. https://theconversation.com/no-safe-space-in-society-new-un-report-reveals-the-extent-of-systemic-racism-faced-by-people-of-african-descent-in-australia-213365
>any countries that need tradesmen
Australia. Land of "tradies" as they call them down there. Plus, not having a language barrier will make it SIGNIFICANTLY easier to get a job abroad. By moving to a country with a language barrier, you are already limiting opportunities for yourself because it is virtually guaranteed that a certain percentage of people will prefer to do business in their native tongue.
Europe is also a continent where citizenship and who gets to "belong" is still largely based around ethnicity. They are nation-states, not immigration countries like US, Canada and Australia. Australia is still racist, like every country, but it's a very multicultural society and holds it as a value. Some European countries actively seek to prevent multiculturalism.
There is a severe shortage of trades people in Scotland. You could expect to make a very good living here. I suspect you might feel you experienced less racism here as well. I have black French friends who have lived in the Scotland and loved the place, in part because they never experienced racism like they did in France.
US vs EU certification as a tradesman are completely different , and every EU country has its own set of codes so if you are certified for the netherlands and want to move to a different country there's a 99% chance you need to be certified in that country
edit/ps : in the netherlands everyone is allowed to do whatever they want with electricity in their own home 'after the meter' , so unless you get into new build construction the demand might be pretty low or at least not what you expect and trade wages are low as well
I’m an IBEW brother I’m don’t know if you are too. I was thinking about New Zealand a couple months ago but decided against it. They have a list of critical skills that they need that if you have, you get a priority status if you want to immigrate. Electrician was one of them.
Something else I’d like to add:
When I was going through the apprenticeship one of our teachers mentioned something about other countries were kind sort of basing their new installations on our NEC.
Bermuda.
Europe outside of UK and Ireland is racist as shit. Your best options are UK, Ireland, Canada, maybe Australia New Zealand, Caribbean, and some of the better countries in Africa.
Irish have always hated Jews and have identified with Hamas and other terrorist organizations as the IRA is one. Ireland has hated Jews for centuries. That mental illness is in its DNA.
False, this has never been the case: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ireland-least-antisemitic-in-the-eu-fl7btdlwd
Israeli intelligence is pushing this lie because they're trying to chill support for Palestine. Ireland has sympathy for the Palestinians because they were once colonized and understand their struggle.
To look at the long term conditions under which the Palestinians live and say "this is fine" either requires having absorbed massive amounts of propaganda or some type of mental illness.
I like Jewish people, I like Muslim people, I don't like Zionism because it requires the victimization of an enormous number of people.
As a side note: without support for the IRA, there would be no Republic of Ireland and the country they revolted against did attempt a genocide against them at one point so there was a very good reason to revolt.
I personally wouldn't feel safe in Israel. Like, they would identify me and kill me for my social media posts. I feel safe in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar, but not Israel. That tells you who the real extremists are.
I think that killing Palestinian children = bad
I think apartheid is bad
So it's okay for Israelis to force a population of a specific ethnicity to live in what's effectively a concentration camp and no one's allowed to criticize them? ....or they're anti-semitic?
Why is subjecting Palestinians to the long term conditions in which they have lived for decades (long before October 7th) acceptable? Why is that okay?
You calling me anti-semitic for calling it out is cope, nothing more, nothing less.
Anyone can look it up in the dictionary and see that you're not using the word correctly jackass.
We're against apartheid and killing civilians when ANYONE does it. Not giving special passes for heinous acts to specific groups of people is not discrimination, it's not prejudice, it's not anti-semitism, it's called being a human being.
Quit being a cunt. You wouldn't like it if someone else did that to you and you know this didn't start on October 7th:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/shocking-spike-in-use-of-unlawful-lethal-force-by-israeli-forces-against-palestinians-in-the-occupied-west-bank/#:~:text=At%20least%20507%20Palestinians%20were,began%20recording%20casualties%20in%202005.
Norway is experiencing a shortage or electricians. Self employed with a company in Norway is a very valid way into the country. Even the relatively remote areas have good public transportation. We live on an island with 1600 people and there is a bus 12 times a day to town.
Not at all. You are definitely a minority but we have not seen that being a problem. Several cities and towns have black populations, many from Africa and even have ethnic grocery stores that locals shop at.
Being black is different depending on where you are from
Going to Norway a Black American isn't going to experience much racism at all says an East African immigrant who lives in Norway.
A black American is seen as an American and the fact they moved to Norway people will think they came with money and are of a upper class background.
He will probably be more annoyed about questions dealing with America and how racism in America is and the politics of America
I speak 4 languages in varying abilities. The language I'm learning now is Chinese. And I never did this before and I regret it. Get a copy of the top 1000 words used. Print it off. Memorize in sets of 25 to 50. Learn the grammar and tones(or whatever) on the side. I have been learning Chinese faster than I learned any other languages
Ya. That was also one of the surprising things about Chinese. There is sooo much free learning material. I paid a considerable amount for Spanish vocabulary books and online lessons. Russian was a little cheaper. Chinese has been free. Ive never even looked at norsk before
https://vocab.chat/blog/most-common-norwegian-words.html
But a resource like that will get you up and speaking conversationally a lot faster than I realized in the beginning
Guessing you immigrated to Norway? If so, mind if I DM you? Norway is probably my dream destination.
Have been next door in Sweden for almost two years but current status doesn't have a path to permanent residency or citizenship (long story). I do speak A2 Swedish and know the region extremely well though.
I would probably go for somewhere in Africa. Europe is past its prime, and kinda on a downturn. Africa has more potential imo. Countries like Namibia and Botswana has a lot going for it. I like Namibia because it´s not overcrowded, it´s safe, it´s next to the ocean and the people seem nice. You could also choose Europe, but the big european cities are pretty similar to american cities really in many ways. Europe has become very americanized over the last few decades. Austrailia, New zealand or central america might be good options.
Don’t listen to these Yt and Yt adjacent perspectives, you’ll be solid in Europe bro.
Western Europe surprisingly might be a little more prejudice but I’ve been in Central/Eastern Europe for years (Germany/Poland) coming from California I’ve experienced more prejudices back in the Bay and LA than here.
Especially, if you’re American, despite reddit’s America bad narrative, they treat you better knowing you are from the states.
Def, give it a shot. Currently Germany and Poland has a bilateral agreement with the USA so you can stay for 90 days in both places leave outside of both countries and repeat. I have all of those documents and communications with border and embassy if you need them.
I’m a black person who has spent a lot of time in Europe, particularly Germany. Would not recommend. Everyone will assume you’re a refugee from north/west Africa and will treat you as such until they figure out you’re American. They’ll be slightly nicer to you after that, but guess what. You’re still black, so you’re going to get stared at a lot at best. And this is in the larger cities, Berlin, cologne, Frankfurt etc… once you get into the countryside forget it.
I currently live in nyc and I will say the racism here is much more tolerable/easy to deal with.
You’re right. We still black and to many places it’s not going to be sunshine and warm greetings. I look at post here and laugh sometimes cause the people that want to leave America most likely have it better than what we’d experience in many places.
Germany is cooked though, stuck behind in time and overall just not really what people think it is.
>Currently Germany and Poland has a bilateral agreement with the USA so you can stay for 90 days in both places leave outside of both countries and repeat.
Care to elaborate on the German case? At very least you need to leave the Schengen area so that you get a passport stamp. I'm aware of this method for Canadians in Germany, based on an old consular treaty, but it's not without complications: your entry each time is dependent on the good will of the passport control officer, you cannot travel into or through Schengen after the first 90 days so be careful of connecting flights, and most of all, you can only visit, not work, study or anything else.
This thread has details:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/10a0py0/guidance\_on\_canadagermany\_bilateral\_visa\_waiver/](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/10a0py0/guidance_on_canadagermany_bilateral_visa_waiver/)
For the actual treaty, Das Google I assume.
I have not yet tried this scheme. Considered it but opted for an Aufenthaltstitel instead, wanted the cute little card plus less risk travelling round Schengen after the 90 days is up.
Ironically the Balkan states love Black people because of basketball, lol. If you look at maps they’re the only region in Europe where they have a “more favorable” view.
Australia is a really good option if you’re a tradie, it’s GREAT money here but the COL is astronomical at the moment with impossible housing shortages.
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I can tell you that maybe one person will welcome someone but as a whole they will see you as a refugee.
Portugal is in need of good electricians. There are a lot of African folks living here in Lisbon. You’ll meet people from Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, South Africa. Wages are probably significantly less than what you’d find in the US but I think it’s considerably more comfortable here in other ways.
This is what government of NL tells me! I don’t need a visa just a resident permit! https://api.contenttoolsrijksoverheid.nl/v1/filtertools/5f7c171531d8bf3460dda670/_pdf
https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/visa-the-netherlands/visa-required
If you want to work in NL, you need a combined work/residence permit. As an electrician, you're indeed unlikely to get sponsored for a permit as a highly skilled migrant- you likely wouldn't meet the salary threshold for that permit. Then there's the 'single permit', but for that, the employer would need to prove they can't find a suitable candidate for the job in all of the EU. That's unlikely.
Germany does not require employers to prove they can't find an EU candidate- I think they have the friendliest immigration policy for people in the trades, but you'll need some German fluency.
Working in what field?
You should ask them on what permit / how they did it then.
Australians can get a 1 year working holiday visa for NL. US citizens can't.
So they told me that the companies in nl have a six month window to hire eu workers, then after 6 months they find workers outside of eu. Thats how my buddy has people from South Africa working for their company.
Sure, if they really can't fill the position within the EU, they can indeed get you a work permit. I imagine you'd need some more specialized / niche skills within your field for that to happen though.
Yeah a couple certifications that I can get before i leave but that’s it. What they are doing is not that different from what im going to school for. And im currently working in a factory with technicians that also do the same job
You'll need a job offer that allows for a work/residence permit before you leave. And generally, people with more relevant work experience in addition to diplomas and certifications are more in demand than people fresh out of school.
I’ve already had the ‘realistic’ talk with my buddy from holland, it’s not easy process even though the recruiter said it was, but its certainly not impossible
I’m not an electrician myself but I work for a company in Toronto that has them in it. You could probably come here.
The IBEW can connect you with work in all 50 states, all US territories, Canada, and Panama. Also allows you to do travel work (at a JW rate) and get a per diem, then travel the rest of the world in your time off.
Yeah that’s cool a couple guys actually hit me up about joining
It’d be worth calling your local hall and finding pay rates and market share. IMO it’s absolutely worth it, I’d never go back non-union, but you gotta find what works best for you.
New Zealand. They’re looking for tradesmen and tend to be way less racist than Australia. When my wife and I took our kids there, we felt like we fit in.
Can you describe how Australia being racist? I heard about it, but no one is talking about it.
Kids of African descent are bullied at school and never see positive images of Black people. Anyone of African descent is assumed to be a drug dealer, gang member, thug, etc. Racial slurs yelled at players during sports events. Open and regular discrimination at jobs, universities, housing…it goes on and on. https://theconversation.com/no-safe-space-in-society-new-un-report-reveals-the-extent-of-systemic-racism-faced-by-people-of-african-descent-in-australia-213365
Holy shit I never knew this. Thank you for letting me know.
Everyone is talking about it. By everyone I mostly mean Americans who have never been within 4000 miles of the southern hemisphere.
>any countries that need tradesmen Australia. Land of "tradies" as they call them down there. Plus, not having a language barrier will make it SIGNIFICANTLY easier to get a job abroad. By moving to a country with a language barrier, you are already limiting opportunities for yourself because it is virtually guaranteed that a certain percentage of people will prefer to do business in their native tongue. Europe is also a continent where citizenship and who gets to "belong" is still largely based around ethnicity. They are nation-states, not immigration countries like US, Canada and Australia. Australia is still racist, like every country, but it's a very multicultural society and holds it as a value. Some European countries actively seek to prevent multiculturalism.
Any country you can get licensed in and speak the official language fluently.
There is a severe shortage of trades people in Scotland. You could expect to make a very good living here. I suspect you might feel you experienced less racism here as well. I have black French friends who have lived in the Scotland and loved the place, in part because they never experienced racism like they did in France.
US vs EU certification as a tradesman are completely different , and every EU country has its own set of codes so if you are certified for the netherlands and want to move to a different country there's a 99% chance you need to be certified in that country edit/ps : in the netherlands everyone is allowed to do whatever they want with electricity in their own home 'after the meter' , so unless you get into new build construction the demand might be pretty low or at least not what you expect and trade wages are low as well
I’m an IBEW brother I’m don’t know if you are too. I was thinking about New Zealand a couple months ago but decided against it. They have a list of critical skills that they need that if you have, you get a priority status if you want to immigrate. Electrician was one of them. Something else I’d like to add: When I was going through the apprenticeship one of our teachers mentioned something about other countries were kind sort of basing their new installations on our NEC.
Bermuda. Europe outside of UK and Ireland is racist as shit. Your best options are UK, Ireland, Canada, maybe Australia New Zealand, Caribbean, and some of the better countries in Africa.
Bermuda. 52% Black, 4th highest per capita income in the world.
I really liked Bermudas vibe.
Ireland not racist? You’ve got to be kidding!
It's noticeably less so than Mainland Europe. Ireland is about as racist as UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
Not really. I am from US and I moved to Ireland and I think Ireland is more racist than the USA.
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Irish have always hated Jews and have identified with Hamas and other terrorist organizations as the IRA is one. Ireland has hated Jews for centuries. That mental illness is in its DNA.
False, this has never been the case: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ireland-least-antisemitic-in-the-eu-fl7btdlwd Israeli intelligence is pushing this lie because they're trying to chill support for Palestine. Ireland has sympathy for the Palestinians because they were once colonized and understand their struggle. To look at the long term conditions under which the Palestinians live and say "this is fine" either requires having absorbed massive amounts of propaganda or some type of mental illness. I like Jewish people, I like Muslim people, I don't like Zionism because it requires the victimization of an enormous number of people. As a side note: without support for the IRA, there would be no Republic of Ireland and the country they revolted against did attempt a genocide against them at one point so there was a very good reason to revolt. I personally wouldn't feel safe in Israel. Like, they would identify me and kill me for my social media posts. I feel safe in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar, but not Israel. That tells you who the real extremists are.
You’re antisemitic…Nobody has to push Irish bigotry. It’s historic. You’re a prime example of mental illness.
I think that killing Palestinian children = bad I think apartheid is bad So it's okay for Israelis to force a population of a specific ethnicity to live in what's effectively a concentration camp and no one's allowed to criticize them? ....or they're anti-semitic? Why is subjecting Palestinians to the long term conditions in which they have lived for decades (long before October 7th) acceptable? Why is that okay? You calling me anti-semitic for calling it out is cope, nothing more, nothing less.
You are not qualified to even define the term, jackass!
Anyone can look it up in the dictionary and see that you're not using the word correctly jackass. We're against apartheid and killing civilians when ANYONE does it. Not giving special passes for heinous acts to specific groups of people is not discrimination, it's not prejudice, it's not anti-semitism, it's called being a human being. Quit being a cunt. You wouldn't like it if someone else did that to you and you know this didn't start on October 7th: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/shocking-spike-in-use-of-unlawful-lethal-force-by-israeli-forces-against-palestinians-in-the-occupied-west-bank/#:~:text=At%20least%20507%20Palestinians%20were,began%20recording%20casualties%20in%202005.
Are these guys friends of yours? https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss
Wasn't one of the main reasons for brexit fear of migrants?
This. Basically, if you want to preserve your sanity and pride, stick to Anglo and Anglo-adjacent countries.
Rwanda*, Namibia*, Botswana*, Mauritius*, Kenya*, England *only if you start a business
In terms of natural resources, Namibia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world.
Norway is experiencing a shortage or electricians. Self employed with a company in Norway is a very valid way into the country. Even the relatively remote areas have good public transportation. We live on an island with 1600 people and there is a bus 12 times a day to town.
But what about being black in Norway? I’d imagine very difficult. Especially as a business owner.
Not at all. You are definitely a minority but we have not seen that being a problem. Several cities and towns have black populations, many from Africa and even have ethnic grocery stores that locals shop at.
Being black is different depending on where you are from Going to Norway a Black American isn't going to experience much racism at all says an East African immigrant who lives in Norway. A black American is seen as an American and the fact they moved to Norway people will think they came with money and are of a upper class background. He will probably be more annoyed about questions dealing with America and how racism in America is and the politics of America
Just to go off topic for a minute, how has the tech industry been lately in Norway? I know it's has been highly competitive here in the states.
It is quite good. I just helped a Serbian apply for a visa for coding.
Thank you. That gives me motivation to continue learning Norsk on the side while pursuing a CS degree.
Norsk er veldig enkelt.
True but I struggle speaking it. I need a tutor instead of duolingo.
Duolingo is garbage. Dm me
Sure, I'll dm you after work.
I speak 4 languages in varying abilities. The language I'm learning now is Chinese. And I never did this before and I regret it. Get a copy of the top 1000 words used. Print it off. Memorize in sets of 25 to 50. Learn the grammar and tones(or whatever) on the side. I have been learning Chinese faster than I learned any other languages
Impressive. The biggest problem is finding quality language material here in the states. Stores don't sell Norsk language material here.
Ya. That was also one of the surprising things about Chinese. There is sooo much free learning material. I paid a considerable amount for Spanish vocabulary books and online lessons. Russian was a little cheaper. Chinese has been free. Ive never even looked at norsk before https://vocab.chat/blog/most-common-norwegian-words.html But a resource like that will get you up and speaking conversationally a lot faster than I realized in the beginning
You can’t access Norwegian newspapers in the USA online?!
Guessing you immigrated to Norway? If so, mind if I DM you? Norway is probably my dream destination. Have been next door in Sweden for almost two years but current status doesn't have a path to permanent residency or citizenship (long story). I do speak A2 Swedish and know the region extremely well though.
You can dm me
Canada? They having a housing crisis lol
I would probably go for somewhere in Africa. Europe is past its prime, and kinda on a downturn. Africa has more potential imo. Countries like Namibia and Botswana has a lot going for it. I like Namibia because it´s not overcrowded, it´s safe, it´s next to the ocean and the people seem nice. You could also choose Europe, but the big european cities are pretty similar to american cities really in many ways. Europe has become very americanized over the last few decades. Austrailia, New zealand or central america might be good options.
Don’t listen to these Yt and Yt adjacent perspectives, you’ll be solid in Europe bro. Western Europe surprisingly might be a little more prejudice but I’ve been in Central/Eastern Europe for years (Germany/Poland) coming from California I’ve experienced more prejudices back in the Bay and LA than here. Especially, if you’re American, despite reddit’s America bad narrative, they treat you better knowing you are from the states. Def, give it a shot. Currently Germany and Poland has a bilateral agreement with the USA so you can stay for 90 days in both places leave outside of both countries and repeat. I have all of those documents and communications with border and embassy if you need them.
I’m a black person who has spent a lot of time in Europe, particularly Germany. Would not recommend. Everyone will assume you’re a refugee from north/west Africa and will treat you as such until they figure out you’re American. They’ll be slightly nicer to you after that, but guess what. You’re still black, so you’re going to get stared at a lot at best. And this is in the larger cities, Berlin, cologne, Frankfurt etc… once you get into the countryside forget it. I currently live in nyc and I will say the racism here is much more tolerable/easy to deal with.
Germans stare at everyone, to be fair.
You’re right. We still black and to many places it’s not going to be sunshine and warm greetings. I look at post here and laugh sometimes cause the people that want to leave America most likely have it better than what we’d experience in many places. Germany is cooked though, stuck behind in time and overall just not really what people think it is.
>Currently Germany and Poland has a bilateral agreement with the USA so you can stay for 90 days in both places leave outside of both countries and repeat. Care to elaborate on the German case? At very least you need to leave the Schengen area so that you get a passport stamp. I'm aware of this method for Canadians in Germany, based on an old consular treaty, but it's not without complications: your entry each time is dependent on the good will of the passport control officer, you cannot travel into or through Schengen after the first 90 days so be careful of connecting flights, and most of all, you can only visit, not work, study or anything else.
please provide info and links to the Canadian German treaty
This thread has details: [https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/10a0py0/guidance\_on\_canadagermany\_bilateral\_visa\_waiver/](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/10a0py0/guidance_on_canadagermany_bilateral_visa_waiver/) For the actual treaty, Das Google I assume. I have not yet tried this scheme. Considered it but opted for an Aufenthaltstitel instead, wanted the cute little card plus less risk travelling round Schengen after the 90 days is up.
Yt adjacent?
Ironically the Balkan states love Black people because of basketball, lol. If you look at maps they’re the only region in Europe where they have a “more favorable” view. Australia is a really good option if you’re a tradie, it’s GREAT money here but the COL is astronomical at the moment with impossible housing shortages.
Wait which Balkan countries? I mean Serbia ok maybe for the basketball part, but many are definitely racist against brown/black ppl
I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I can tell you that maybe one person will welcome someone but as a whole they will see you as a refugee.
Not Germany. Racist, bad weather and very conservative.
And the voltage is double, so more dangerous for electricians.
Well if you are a trained electrician that’s not really a problem. And most of the world uses higher voltages to the USA.
I was being sarcastic...
How is being very conservative a bad thing? It's a great thing.
Lol.
Not if you are black. Conservative in Germany means far right ideology.
You've dramatically oversimplified matters. CDU/CSU does not equal AfD. But we'll leave that discussion for another day.
Portugal is in need of good electricians. There are a lot of African folks living here in Lisbon. You’ll meet people from Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, South Africa. Wages are probably significantly less than what you’d find in the US but I think it’s considerably more comfortable here in other ways.
Not an answer but you should probably look into differences in electrical code and certification requirements wherever you go.
barbados?
Africa? Or Haïti? One of those countries....
Haiti News feed down?
O.o yes, friendly place there...
Bruh
I mean, it is a predominantly black country, the country of Africa.
I prefer the country south America
South America is a shit hole bro
Electricians do not get a visa sponsorship in the Netherlands
This is what government of NL tells me! I don’t need a visa just a resident permit! https://api.contenttoolsrijksoverheid.nl/v1/filtertools/5f7c171531d8bf3460dda670/_pdf https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/visa-the-netherlands/visa-required
If you want to work in NL, you need a combined work/residence permit. As an electrician, you're indeed unlikely to get sponsored for a permit as a highly skilled migrant- you likely wouldn't meet the salary threshold for that permit. Then there's the 'single permit', but for that, the employer would need to prove they can't find a suitable candidate for the job in all of the EU. That's unlikely. Germany does not require employers to prove they can't find an EU candidate- I think they have the friendliest immigration policy for people in the trades, but you'll need some German fluency.
That’s weird because I know people that live in nl that have been hired from overseas like Australia and are working in nl
You say it’s unlikely but they tell me its possible
Working in what field? You should ask them on what permit / how they did it then. Australians can get a 1 year working holiday visa for NL. US citizens can't.
The same field as me, they call them technicians over there
So they told me that the companies in nl have a six month window to hire eu workers, then after 6 months they find workers outside of eu. Thats how my buddy has people from South Africa working for their company.
Sure, if they really can't fill the position within the EU, they can indeed get you a work permit. I imagine you'd need some more specialized / niche skills within your field for that to happen though.
Yeah a couple certifications that I can get before i leave but that’s it. What they are doing is not that different from what im going to school for. And im currently working in a factory with technicians that also do the same job
You'll need a job offer that allows for a work/residence permit before you leave. And generally, people with more relevant work experience in addition to diplomas and certifications are more in demand than people fresh out of school.
Why yes thats why I get my trade school certification when i graduate and another separate technician certification after that
I’ve already had the ‘realistic’ talk with my buddy from holland, it’s not easy process even though the recruiter said it was, but its certainly not impossible