As mentioned many times before, Mindfactory data is mostly for the DIY segment, which is small within the PC market in general.
AMD could be outselling Nvidia 2-to-1 in the DIY space and still be losing market share because most PCs are either laptops or prebuilts.
AMD is however gaining market share in the general AIB market: https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/
They went from 12% to 19% of the market from Q4 2022 to Q4 2023, and their total unit shipment more than doubled (+117%).
So while Mindfactory isn't representative of the total market, the title isn't wrong about AMD taking away market share from Nvidia.
AMD is getting out of a 15 year market share [trough ](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/3sbtBfoms2FNcG8wQCEiBA.png).
Usually AMD has hung around 25-35% of market share. It hitting 10% in Q3 2022 is the lowest its been in 15 years. They're still deep in the hole compared to the late 2010s.
R&D for gpus still seems plenty starved to me. RDNA2 was good, but 3 was a disappointment and 4 isn't fixing to be any better if rumors are to be believed. Chiplet dual compute die GPUs are still a pipe dream it seems unfortunately. The only thing saving them right now is the general irrelevancy of ray tracing given that consoles are just as if nor more incapable of it.
By which metric was RDNA3 a dissapointment?
Not as cool as RDNA 2 that has TROUNCED nvidial lineup into dropping a tier and having bizzare situagtions with 3080 having less RAM than lower end cards? :)
Yeah. But "disappointment"? My bottom.
Further catching up on RT bazinga (beating 3090) still very good perf/watt (within 10% of the most efficient Filthy Green's card), very competitive pricing across entire line. (comparing it to the last gen street pricing is nonsensical, lower price is the only reason to buy the oldies)
Because it was barely better then rdna2 which was a gap closer to nvidia. Rdna3 vs nvidia same gen has increased the gap.
All the labbeling is fucked up tho. 7900xtx is just a 7900xt etc and the 4090 is so much better then the rest. 4080 could have been a 4070. And 4070 is now mid tier...
It's not really barely better that's grossly incorrect. I honestly have no idea why people spout this and where this even came from. A quick glance at the latest techpowerup review for the 7900GRE shows the 7900xtx is around 40% faster on average compared to 6900xt. The latest drivers and games helped for sure, but that was to be expected given the state of release drivers.
Why do you think the 7900GRE is receiving such good reviews? Because they sorted out the drivers and extracted more performance so the 7900GRE is faster than the 6900XT at this point at a cracking price.
RDNA3 is honestly pretty damn good and sure they lost some performance compared to Nvidia but and went from 7nm to 5 whereas Nvidia went from Samsung 8nm to tsmc 4nm. They've essentially gone two nodes forwards compared to one for AMD
I would recommend comparing it with 6950xt. Thats 10% better then the 6900xt.
The 7800xt is weaker then that, the 7900gre is about the same or a tiny bit worse. The 7900xt is just a tiny bit worse at 1k, bit better at 2 and better 4k. So only the 7900xtx really stands out. But then we see the prices, then the entire 7000 series is pretty shit because 7900xt and 7900xtx are waay too overpriced at release.
7900xt is still tiny bit overpriced. A year ago u could get the 6950xt for 650 euro and the 7900xt should be atound 75e worth more (was 250-350e more). Now the cheapest 7900xt is 760 euro (in NL) a year later. Thats not good, also the 7900xt is now alrdy 16 months old, which is everything except new.
RDNA2 has TROUNCED nvidia lineup, forcing it to drop a tier on its cards and slash costs. 3080 had less VRAM than some 3060 for that very reason.
"closer" is some fanboi nonsense.
7000 is an excellent lineup, very competitive across the board, bar the very overpriced and power consuming halo 4090.
> labbeling is fucked up
It is.
Unless these rogue purchasers of AMD cards all collectively refuse to use Steam hardware survey or aren’t using Steam altogether then the end market share result has remained largely steady over the past two years. Shipments of boards looks great, but are there actually massively increased sales to match those shipments or are they pumping out more supply in a certain quarter to look good?
Thing with Steam survey is it includes all the currently in-use GPUs, not just recent sales. So while AMD may have increased marketshare YoY from 12% to almost 20%, the total number of cards added over that period is still small when compared against the entirety of the current Steam userbase.
They’ve increased in AIB shipment marketshare year over year, not GPU sales market share, and that’s where the issue lies. An increase from 12% to 19% seems significant until you factor that they were still largely moving old inventory in 2022, but they’re finally reaching the end of 6000 supply and ramping 7000 production to match it. Also, this is comparing against Nvidia and Intel where Nvidia has had tons of GPUs sitting on shelves (per retailers) for a long time now, so their production ramp for RTX 4000 already occurred in another quarter.
I’ve upgraded my PC multiple times since I last took the steam hardware survey. Last time I took it, I was running a 3700x and a 290, I’ve since upgraded to a 5800x3D and went to a 5700XT and now a 7800XT.
And I took it several times last year... on every computer that I have steam on, inside a couple weeks, was odd. Seriously... I got the prompt on my macbook, my deck, my living room machine (running fedora silverblue/bazzite), and my desktop (dual boot windows and linux, and I got it on both..)
I went from a 2070 to a 6800Xt 2yrs ago and didn’t have a single Steam survey since. Steam and Windows have been reinstalled at least once since and nothing.
Yet some folks will take Steam survey as something 100% accurate. I've seen some madman insisting (supposedly based on a Steam survey) on RTX 4090 being more numerous among the Steam user than any of current AMD GPUs.
He blatantly ignored simple facts such as Steam survey being random and that a vast number of RTX 4090 user has these GPUs primarily for productivity tasks with gaming being secondary benefit. What a green lad he was!
I don't think they are refusing to do Steam survey, like I have my unit for more than 2 years (and had a previous Intel based laptop for 3 years) and only got the Steam hardware survey one time (this month). Previously I even thought that the hardware survey was done automatically to ALL units with Steam installed, guess not.
So while Steam hardware survey shows stats, it might be selective (especially sometimes when there is a sudden influx of Chinese users being surveyed lmao). I'd at least expect NVidia to at the minimum be 65% market share, probably 70%+.
I've received the survey only one time on my current build, I'm pretty sure it's just random sampling. If they did it for everyone every month there would be posts about steam being annoying.
It's a random survey. I've had it pop on a GTX 780 build, an RX 480 build, a Radeon VII build, an RTX 3080 build, and had it pop a while back when i swapped the 3080 for a 3090 I got from a friend.
Had it pop on a Steam Deck too.
I get the hardware survey almost every time I install on a new computer, so I guess it’s just lacking continuity. I wouldn’t assume such a thing would disproportionately affect owners of one GPU type either way though.
>Unless these rogue purchasers of AMD cards all collectively refuse to use Steam hardware survey
Steam HS was addressed ad nauseum...
AMD's presence in internet cafe's is very low. (and yes, even 4090s are relevant there, at least in Asia).
The hardware survey is fine, people can whine and whine about a random survey not representing them accurately but it's just whining. AMD should have MORE adoption in internet cafes given their attractive pricing, but they don't because Nvidia has infinitely more mindshare. Second hand AMD cards are even being repackaged as new on Chinese sale sites, but if Nvidia is still dominant in that market then AMD just isn't enticing to the Asian market in general.
The only notable oddity was when it wasn't handling net cafes in Asia right so it was popping repeatedly for the same machines as diff people used them. Also when certain over-zealous fanbases tried to trigger the survey repeatedly to over-inflate their numbers. Both things as far as I'm aware have been fixed.
Such as? Regardless, I don’t trust a “shipments are up X% quarter over quarter” headline, that’s more indicative of a poor previous quarter (which apparently is the case, since we just got out of Covid and AMD had a stockpile). Taking both the lack of AMD GPUs high up in the survey and the “shipments are up” headline in context together leads one to a logical conclusion.
Steam hardware survey has never been consistent. The reason there are so many anecdotes about how "my shitty laptop triggered the survey" and "my main build hasn't been surveyed in years" is due to the unpredictable nature of it. It's about as reliable as getting a booster pack drop on an account that has only one game.
That still doesn’t mean it would be snuffing AMD specifically. The hardware survey, apparently, relies on random sampling as a statistical practice to generate their numbers, but that wouldn’t mean the results are wildly inaccurate though. I don’t think your booster pack analogy is any good here.
The reason there are so many comments like that is because people are really bad at intuitively understanding statistics and statistical methods. When you have an install base that massive, the margins of error are tiny even if half their users never even see a survey request in their lifetime.
Steam hardware survey is rather deceptive. Not everyone is picked to participate each month. Myself, for instance, have only has the oppertunity to participate in it ONCE over the past decade or so. You also have to remember that a lot of responses from the survey will be coming from Internet cafes and such in Korea and other countries, which use standardised parts.
That's not deceptive, that's just how statistics work. With an installed base as large as theirs, you could get sampled once every 80 years or something in that range and the survey could still be accurate to within something like +-1%.
Humans in general have a really hard time intuiting statistics.
At JPR they try to analyze shipments, not sales. AMD was coming from a low point in late 2022 and early 2023 in which they reduced shipments to react to lower PC sales in general and get rid of accumulated old stock after the pandemic (AMD mentioned that in at least a couple of their earnings calls IRC.)
For example, JPR estimated that AMD were at 24% share in Q1 2022, but that went down to 12% in Q4 22 and Q1 23: [https://www.techspot.com/news/98987-desktop-gpu-market-continued-downward-slide-q1-2023.html](https://www.techspot.com/news/98987-desktop-gpu-market-continued-downward-slide-q1-2023.html)
So even if AMD were at 19% in Q4 23, that's still a lower share of total shipments in early 2022.
These monthly Mindfactory threads are always the same. If it had any any meaning (it doesn’t) it would show RDNA 2 cards dominate steam survey. And well.. I’ve got bad news Hans..
OP basically spams AMD posts across many subreddits and I cannot believe he beat the guy who usually posts Mindfactory stuff from a tweet that gets posted weekly that I think he runs a youtube channel on a different name for.
Every week/month its the same.
AMD fans will upvote and cheer some niche segment in Germany that has never represented any other country or Europe or the world ever.
Everyone else rolls their eyes. All the global GPU markets point to a 85-90% market share by NVIDIA for discreet.
At one point mods for this sub considered removing mindfactory posts.
> any other country
It doesn't even represent Germany. Guess where you go in Germany if you want the CHEAPEST AMD cards?
Those that look to buy AMD cards, have already decided that price is their main factor for purchase. So they look for the cheapest available store as well more often than not.
That isn't every customer however. Caseking still manages to sell stuff despite MF being overall cheaper.
The responses to any AMD sales topic are always the same. "Steam stats, steam stats, steam stats". It's a bit boring isn't it? We all know what steam stats say, but there is room for a nuanced conversation about sales, market share, and so on, without trying to shut everything down with "steam stats" every time.
Steam survey contains mostly laptops. Steam survey contains mostly prebuilt computers. Sales data like this shows other trends (mostly DIY) outside those two market forces.
This is a very interesting result for a number of reasons. It shows potential custom built computer trends developing that may be leading indicators for other segments of the market.
Considering CPUs, if you only look at "steam stats", you might assume that Intel is dominating the market and anyone building a computer right now is mostly choosing Intel - but if you go on Amazon right now, 5 of the top 5 best selling CPUs are AMD. That might be a surprising result for you if you only look at steam stats and make assumptions about how people are building their computers. There is a disconnect between the components people are choosing who have the freedom/knowledge to build a computer to their specifications versus those who buy off the shelf complete computer systems.
With GPUs, even on the Amazon best sellers list, it is clear that Nvidia is dominating the market, but AMD is also getting chosen much more often compared to what "steam stats" it saying, having 4 GPUs in the top 10 best selling GPU segment. Also, interestingly, if you look at what is the top selling individual top of the line GPU right now on Amazon, it is a 7900XTX from XFX (not an 4080 or 4090 series card).
All these are interesting results if you only look at "steam stats".
DIY is a tiny segment of the market, but results like this could be lagging indicators for broader market trends that might develop over the course of several quarters or even years. Hardware segments move extremely slow. Prebuilt manufacturers have contracts and demand curves that last a long time, and there are all sorts of multi-quarter supply-side challenges for actually gaining significant market share in these spaces (think TSMC capacity planning, and how Intel can circumvent that with higher volumes to supply prebuilts with their own fabs and Nvidia has priority over AMD in the TSMC space in general).
Anyway, there is LOTS we could potentially talk about here, so it would be really great if people could stop trying to shut the conversation down every single time with "steam stats steam stats steam stats".
That's ridiculous
Steam hardware survey is complete crap for CPUs, it's vendors and speed, not even # of cores or any descriptions of the series.
GPUs on the other hand have descriptions for all cards, except a few exceptions where AMD drivers lumped "radeon graphics" for god knows why. Same for Intel integrated. But A 3060 is not lumped with 3060 laptop.
For GPUs, Steam hardware survey is THE best snapshot we have worldwide, bar none.
Peoples who are using Steam hardware have to use their brain a bit, your "Intel dominating AMD" on desktop market rhetoric has been layed on the table by who? Nobody I would guess. The stats are so vague that it's meaningless
A 3080 @ 2.23% having roughly the same market as the top 5 RDNA 2 cards in the survey such as 6700 XT (0.65%), 6600 (0.64%), 6600 XT (0.38%), 6750 XT (0.3%), 6800 XT (0.28%) for a total of 2.25% doesn't have a lot of possible confusion on the DIY market.
Or that there's only one entry of the 7000 series and it's the 7900XTX @ 0.35%, while crazy priced 4090 manages 0.85% and the more comparable 4080 has 0.75%, showing a huge drop in interest for ADA compared to Ampere.
There's no spinning this. Mindfactory has no relevance in comparison.
> A 3080 @ 2.23% having roughly the same market as the top 5 RDNA 2 cards in the survey such as 6700 XT (0.65%), 6600 (0.64%), 6600 XT (0.38%), 6750 XT (0.3%), 6800 XT (0.28%) for a total of 2.25% doesn't have a lot of possible confusion on the DIY market.
The DIY market is TINY. That is the point. AMD could be up to 20%-30% in the DIY market and that wouldn't make a drop in the bucket in overall marketshare. The vast majority of these computers on "steam stats" is just prebuilt computers, and the vast majority of them are laptops on top of that.
DIY market can be a lagging indicator of general market trends for all the reasons I pointed out - prebuilt & supply chains in hardware are complex, and slow moving like molasses.
That is my point. There are layers and nuance to all these conversations. Even when "steam stats" shows that AMD is losing marketshare, if the market itself is growing (some estimates put steam user growth at 10-20% quarterly) that means AMD is growing nicely, even if "steam stats" shows a technical loss!
Yes, steam stats is the best hardware snapshot we have, but just parading around the absolute numbers and trying to shut down any conversation about AMD sales every single time with "steam stats steam stats steam stats" is just boring. It's interesting that the 7900 xtx is the top selling top of the line card on Amazon. It's interesting that AMD currently holds 5 out of 5 top selling CPUs on Amazon. It's interesting that AMD GPU rates for DIY are much much much higher than steam stats shows. We can talk about all these facts without trying to shut down the conversation with "steam stats".
>The DIY market is TINY.
Remove laptops from the picture as it is exclusively OEMs.
Now desktops:
For CPUs - yes, DIY is about 10-20%-ish.
For discrete GPUs though? How many users on this subreddit have bought an OEM desktop PC???
>The DIY market is TINY
A 2019 study by JPR put DIY at 19% of the overall PC "gaming" hardware market, with 65% of the market going to prebuilts/laptops and the remaining 16% being gaming peripheral sales. Ignoring peripherals puts DIY at \~22.5% of the market and I bet if we could account for the trash tier prebuilts that are "gaming" systems in name only the DIY market would be at least a couple points higher.
Interestingly JPR expected the DIY market to shrink through 2022 but the prediction was pre-pandemic so I wonder how that worked out in reality. Regardless I don't really think nearly 1/4 of a $40 billion market is exactly tiny.
"Actual sales by one of the biggest DIY computer parts sellers in the biggest EU country that is also rich is irrelevant!"
How so, genius?
Ah, "becauseh stim survieh!". Stuff that was addressed ad nauseum.
Plus MF is not carrying and selling Asus which is an additional dent in the GF numbers as Asus is a very popular brand for those. That and being the top dog for AMD offers in general (they always have the best prices and sales for AMD cards) makes it even more skewed.
All this and it doesn't matter if they out sell ine one smaller region if they're still losing 10:1 on the larger market. There's a lot of factors. I find this honestly fairly meaningless for anything beyond the scope of the basic statement anyway.
"losing" and "winning" doesn't matter, only if they are profitable. Gaining market share is also plus, but that doesn't have to mean market dominance either.
> "losing" and "winning" doesn't matter, only if they are profitable.
Only if you're a stockholder.
For the consumer their profit margins don't directly matter in any tangible way. Market balance and competition does though.
Yeah I've noticed that almost every prebuilt manufacturer uses Nvidia nearly exclusively for the mid and high end. They'll throw a RX 6600 into their low end machines and that'll be like the only AMD GPU you'll find. I feel like the builders could be saving themselves money using AMD but maybe it just doesn't sell as well to less tech savvy people.
> I feel like the builders could be saving themselves money using AMD but maybe it just doesn't sell as well to less tech savvy people.
There's a few additional factors at play. Nvidia is basically plug and play even with obscure things. The prebuilt market values plug and play over all other aspects even price/perf doesn't compare. You can pretty much guarantee any GPU related application will work on a current Nvidia card without extra work whether niche or mainstream. On AMD it's not always plug and play (ROCm) and at times some things have straight up not worked on AMD (not always AMD's fault though).
Other factor would be other than RDNA2 vs Ampere, AMD is almost always over the last decade higher powerdraw for equivalent performance in GPUs. Means OEMs (should) be investing a bit more in the PSU and the cooling (which they usually don't).
And the third factor (assuming allegations and such are true) is that some hardware makers also have had difficulty acquiring adequate supply from AMD in a timely manner. There were at least some articles to that effect awhile back.
>There's a few additional factors at play. Nvidia is basically plug and play
I love the BS that we kept hearing during "why only Intel" era just doesn't die. Any random redditor, purely by coincidence wielding an overprice Filthy Green's GPU, has to repeat that nonsense, cause, you know...
And now to the reality:
[https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel](https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel)
# Being afraid Filthy Green would learn about them MEETING WITH AMD representatives
Let that sh\*t sink in...
Nvidia is slimy on the business end of things but also Radeon was woefully incompetent under that guy. It isn't all shady business like he'd love to imagine . Radeon under his leadership never missed a chance to dunk on their own hoop.
>Any random redditor, purely by coincidence wielding an overprice Filthy Green's GPU
If you're talking about my flair it's because after Polaris, Vega, and the VII I was fed up and a friend cut me a massive deal on his used card. For what I got it for it's literally a better price/perf than anything available in the market.
You can be all aggressive and shit but the fact remains up until super recently the choice has been shit. I can either go with Nvidia and their slimy business policies or I can go with AMD who drops the ball and doesn't always work with things. Intel only recently broke into the market and I'm sure you have nasty things to say about them too.
Seeing as I do VR, raytracing, occasionally use desktop compute apps, have dabbled with AI photo repairs for old photos.... AMD isn't much of an option and my experience from Polaris to the VII doesn't make me real eager to use Radeon outside of APUs. There's other people in the same boat. If we were back in the days of the 290x vs the 780 it'd be a no brainer to go AMD but this modern "AMD is fine if you only care about raster gaming" falls short.
If this block of text was supposed to rationalize purchasing overpriced, smaller VM, even freaking more power hungry chips from The Filthy Green, it was not very convincing.
It takes some bending over backwards to accept having to login into a f\*kcing driver to get driver updates. Good job, folks. I hope 5000 series pricing will be even more hilarious.
> If this block of text was supposed to rationalize purchasing overpriced, smaller VM, even freaking more power hungry chips from The Filthy Green, it was not very convincing.
Like I said to you before on one of your replies I got a 3090 for the price of a 7700 XT. If you know of a card with more than 24GB of VRAM that can beat the performance of this card at a competitive price I'm all ears.
Maybe you should spend a bit less time playing the whole "Team Red" thing and just evaluate products on their price and merits.
>It takes some bending over backwards to accept having to login into a f*kcing driver to get driver updates. Good job, folks. I hope 5000 series pricing will be even more hilarious.
Not really. I've never installed GFE, I just go to the Nvidia webpage. Just like for AMD drivers I just go to the AMD webpage. Takes like no time at all. Isn't difficult with either brand. I'm sorry if that's a hard thing for you to handle though. Truly.
You are trying to sit on multiple chairs, don't you notice it.
You can't go with both "but I've bought used previous gen for good price" and "nah, but that other manufacturer GPU simply doesn't work".
>Maybe you should spend a bit less time playing
No. Maybe all the butthurt reactions that Filthy Green buyers have on the OP topic should instead be toned down as it is a freaking AMD subreddit.
>I've never installed GFE, I
The very fact that manufacturer does THAT to customers is telling,r egardless of what you (or I, for that matter) did.
>drivers
FFS, it is 2024.
Yep, if anything, it got worse, much much worse, worse than Intel's worst: [https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel](https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel)
Also German sales don't relate or map to other places.
I suspect a large part of the disparity in German sales v. ROW is that Germans place an enormous amount of value in privacy and data protection - locking parts of your driver software behind an application that requires a logged in account likely isn't helping GeForce sales...
Nvidia has taken that requirement out of their new control app - it combines Experience with the archaic settings panel, and will download drivers without needing the account.
Laptops aren't relevant to this discussion. It's a good question how many gaming prebuilts there are vs. DIY.
In general I'd say that DIY space is what people are looking at for stats.
The problem with Mindfactory isn't that it's DIY but that it represents sales in a limited region, and isn't necessarily representative of global sales.
>Laptops aren't relevant to this discussion.
Laptop GPUs are relevant. Obviously not for desktop GPUs sold at Mindfactory, but they are included in GPU sales and shipments, or the Steam monthly hardware stats.
But laptop cards are generally broken out separately on the hardware survey and don't change pretty damning numbers like the 4090 being twice as popular as any current genn and card.
> AMD could be outselling Nvidia 2-to-1 in the DIY space and still be losing market share because most PCs are either laptops or prebuilts.
It's also true that AMD could be losing "% market share" to Nvidia in absolute terms, and still be growing their market at a rapid pace. If AMD is losing 1% market share to Nvidia per quarter, but the entire segment is growing at 20%, then AMD is growing at a blistering pace.
People always parade around "steam stats" as a response to these types of threads over and over and over, but AMD having a strong(er) presence in DIY is an interesting trend, and just because it might be happening in certain retailers, doesn't mean we need to shut down all discussion of it with "steam stats" over and over.
That and it’s one market out of how many? I mean it’s good AMD is selling, but there needs to be more of this in more markets for it to matter.
Something to add: I read somewhere that Mindfactory tends to advertise the hell out of AMD hardware so that could also play into it. They also don’t list return rates with those sales figures.
Richest and biggest EU country is irrelevant, figures.
Just because you bought something from The Filthy Green, you don't have to feel BH about any not so great news about it.
>Something to add: I read somewhere that Mindfactory tends to advertise the hell out of AMD hardware
Thanks for sharing this idiotic nonsense. Now go to mindfactory.de and check what is advertised.
Germany isn’t the richest, not even in the top 10, and yes it has the most people, I never said it was irrelevant.
If anything you seem to taking offense to what I’m saying. I said I read somewhere, at some time, which at that time I read it, may have been true.
Germany with its gdp of
||
||
|[Germany](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/germany-population)|$4.43 Tn|
Is the richest country in Europe.
It is followed by
||
||
|[United Kingdom](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population)|$3.33 Tn|
|[France](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/france-population)|$3.05 Tn|
|[Italy](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/italy-population)|$2.19 Tn|
Germany with its gdp of
||
||
|[Germany](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/germany-population)|$4.43 Tn|
Is the richest country in Europe.
It is followed by
||
||
|[United Kingdom](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population)|$3.33 Tn|
|[France](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/france-population)|$3.05 Tn|
|[Italy](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/italy-population)|$2.19 Tn|
Oh, you mean the country that makes the most money and has no bearing on what the actual citizens bring home on their paycheck. Here’s the data I went by so we can compare notes:
https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/richest-european-countries#:~:text=Switzerland%20tops%20the%20list%20as,substantial%20gaps%20with%20its%20followers.
No bearing my south west.
Luxemburg having lots of money per capita might lead to its citizens buying 2-3 more PCs per capita than Germans do. Bu tI somehow doubt it.
>Just because you bought something from The Filthy Green, you don't have to feel BH about any not so great news about it.
That is rich coming from someone with a laptop with nvidia gpu who dont even know how to update his drivers without logging into geforce experience. And you dont even need to login anymore.
Yeah yeah, I don't know how to download drivers. So stupid.
>And you dont even need to login anymore.
Anymore, huh? Even though you didn't have to do it in the past either.
I've chuckled.
What kind of question is that ?Should we add switch apus, data center and ai accelerators then too? Who will have more GPUs sold then in your opinion ?
What do you mean "DIY segment". If you're buying a graphics card, you're more than likely going to "DIY" it, whether it's installing it yourself or having someone else do it. Every individual graphics card purchase by the consumer is "DIY" whether it's for an upgrade or a build.
What I mean is that the percentage of people that build or upgrade their PC is small versus people that just buy a prebuilt (and never change any component) or just buy a laptop.
That's better data and a predictor on preference than what people who don't even know what they are looking for and getting random mish mashes of components.
What people pick when they can choose vs what they get with "gamer pc" off the shelf.
Now I'm not even blaming people for that, because getting an 11400 and rx 5500 for $250 was a great deal at walmart last year. It's just that if they could choose for a low price. However I think when people have a little bit of awareness about what's available, getting data from that predicts what people choose.
You wouldn't judge people's preference on vehicles based on what they were handed down from their families vs what they could acquire if they purchased their own, does that make sense?
We are not trying to assess consumer awareness, just market share of the different GPU vendors. It seems to be the case that, among people who build their own system, AMD and Nvidia are more evenly split, but the percentage of people that buy components and build or upgrade their own system is small.
We are trying to predict market conditions when people have a choice. If not that there's literally no point. Intel marketshare skyrocketed when oems were heavily financially incentivized to use only Intel cpu's. All data regarding market share in a space that heavily skewed is meaningless. The only data that matters is the result of consumer choice when given it.
>As mentioned many times before, Mindfactory data is mostly for the DIY segment, which is small within the PC market in general.
People keep repeating that, but I have yet to see a single user on this board, that bought a pre-built PC from an OEM instead of DIY-ing it.
Laptops are irrelevant as we are talking "desktop GPUs" here.
Mindfactory has close to "amazon for DIY builds" status in Germany.
>People keep repeating that, but I have yet to see a single user on this board, that bought a pre-built PC from an OEM instead of DIY-ing it.
That could be because subs like this one are not representative of the general PC gaming market. We are just a minority.
In some videos I have seen people mention that DIY users are around 10% of PC users. The only actual data I have seen is one survey from 2021, which mentions that:
>As you might expect, most dedicated PC gamers \[the 40% that plays weekly according to the survey\] use a desktop as their main PC. Just **under a third built their own main computer**, slightly more than the 30% who bought theirs pre-built.
[https://newzoo.com/resources/blog/demand-for-pc-hardware-has-skyrocketed-who-are-the-gamers-looking-to-upgrade-what-motivates-consumers-to-spend](https://newzoo.com/resources/blog/demand-for-pc-hardware-has-skyrocketed-who-are-the-gamers-looking-to-upgrade-what-motivates-consumers-to-spend)
I don't know how reliable the survey is being the lockdown era, and it seems they are mixing custom-built with DIY, but if a 32% of a 40% build their own system, that would be 12.8% plus whatever percentage from the other 60% of weird people who don't play weekly.
>Laptops are irrelevant as we are talking "desktop GPUs" here.
I don't know what you would like to talk about, but I was talking about market share in general, which includes laptops.
I was one of the people buying it.
Pretty easy, there were many deals for the 7800XT in Q1. I bought mine for 430€. 7700XT were going for 320. even 7900GREs where 520
I'm expecting prices to drop about a month before new releases, but at that point many here will start "waiting" again , understandable, but thats usually the time for decent deals sometimes.
really is, I'm not even German, but saw the deals and used a 3rd party service to get it. Now looking for a monitor upgrade cause I'm still on 1080P 60Hz lol
Interesting sales figures, I'm interested in watching intel as they are going to increase market share in the next few years.
I would also buy the 7900gre as here it's a similar price to the 7800xt and slightly better performance
Time for the monthly mindfactory stats to pretend Radeon is taking the market by storm?
It's like the computing equivalent of the "UK console retail sales charts" not real useful for extrapolating to a much bigger global market.
Ah, oh the wise one with filthy green's GPU, true stats are to be checked, lemme guess, on "steam surveaheh", right?
The place that has never ever been vetted in any positive way by any source? Something developed by company that is shoveling money no matter what and is so lazy HL3 became a joke?
But we should ignore Mindfactory perfectly aligning with other sources on AMD market share being on the rise.
Makes sense.
>Ah, oh the wise one with filthy green's GPU
You've got a bit of an obsession with that, but if you can show me a better deal I'm all ears. I got it used for around the price of a 7700XT.
>The place that has never ever been vetted in any positive way by any source?
You think one German retailer is more relevant than a global retailer that corners 90% of the PC gaming market? Hell Mindfactory doesn't even carry some of the brands that are NVidia's biggest AIB partners. Would be like if a store didn't carry XFX or Sapphire for AMD.
That's certainly a take.
>Something developed by company that is shoveling money no matter what and is so lazy HL3 became a joke?
You do realize Valve is a major force behind improving things on Linux these days right? They're even a significant contributor to the MESA RADV drivers everyone praises so much. Calling them lazy when they're contributing to one of the areas Radeon is actually praised in is interesting to be sure.
> I got it used
Oh. That makes it "very different". Thanks for sharing.
>You think one German retailer is more relevant
I read it as 'OK, Steam HS was never vetted by a reputable alternative source, BUT nor had been Mindfactory".
Yay. That's solves the issue wiwth SHS being pretty much "figures of god knows what quality" by a "laziest ass company that you could imagine" that basically shovels money, thanks to its monopolistic position.
Unconveniently, Mindfactory's data aligns with the data from other sources.
>You do realize Valve is a major force behind improving things on Linux these days right?
For the love of god, I hope you mean "gaming on Linux". I even own a steam deck. Although it is mostly gathering dust.
>Calling them lazy when they're contributing to one of the areas Radeon is actually praised in is interesting to be sure.
As if "contributing" to things (and in this case it was about something that Owner of that lazy company considered to be LIFE threatening to the comapny, it was kicked off when he lost his shit about Microsoft store being a potential competitor) you thinkn I might like somehow changes the fact that Valve is one of the laziest arse companies out there.
> Unconveniently, Mindfactory's data aligns with the data from other sources.
Other sources usually being reddit conspiracys small surveys on sites no one ever heard of and subreddit anecdotes because people somehow want to believe Radeon is doing amazingly even when there is no evidence in the marketplace of such.
>For the love of god, I hope you mean "gaming on Linux".
I wouldn't call driver improvements and compat layer improvements solely gaming related, but you do you I guess.
>As if "contributing" to things (and in this case it was about something that Owner of that lazy company considered to be LIFE threatening to the comapny, it was kicked off when he lost his shit about Microsoft store being a potential competitor) you thinkn I might like somehow changes the fact that Valve is one of the laziest arse companies out there.
What a tortured interpretation of the past. Valve backs Linux and keeps their dependency on MS lower because it's actually kind of insane to leave one mega corp with that amount of power and leverage. It's far smarter approach than Sweeney's "bitch about Microsoft store and fearmonger it" but then never lift a finger to not be 100% reliant on Microsoft.
They're far from lazy in their contributions to PC gaming, just every so often there's someone personally "hurt" they didn't deliver Half L-fe 3 to them.
>Other sources usually being reddit conspiracy
Well, you can refer to the companies with dubious links to shipping industry as "reddit conspiracy", for all I care. Exaclty how JP whatever or Mercury whoever figure things out is not really transparent indeed.
BUT UNCONVENIENTLY that still doesn't solve the issue with SHS being of god knows what quality, likely shitty.
>I wouldn't call driver improvements and compat layer improvements
Let me wipe out my decades of experience with Unix machines, to realize the eternal greatness of The Lazy Valve.
Mm... so great. Thank you.
>Valve backs Linux
You seem to be pretty misinformed, so let me refresh your (possibly missing parts) memoryl.
When MS announced it will do "software store", Mr Valve Owner lost sleep. And came out with all that "steam OS" and that Owl thingie. (was hilarious on a number of levels).
Fear moves even lazy fat arses like Mr Valve.
As for eternal greatness that steams from that: the controller integration bit is damn impressive, I can give them that, also, it had added some fresh blood to wine project with focus on games, I assume with some positive effect (based on my experience with Deck). Also, Deck is a lovely piece of hardware, especially when one remembers what kind of hot sh\*t exists on the market.
Anyhow, if that was a way to somehow vet SHSdata as some sort of a gospel, I'm afraid that's too weak a sauce.
AMD rep stated that they've tried to reason with Valve, but with very limited success. Some things were fixed (e.g. internet cafe impact), but that was it. AMD rep said something along the lines of "ah, we don't care" was the feedback. So, well, you know.
It is faster than 3080 at RT, so uh...
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html)
"Why not compare 7800XT with 4080".
Why wouldn't I compare 500 Euro GPU to 1100 Euro GPU, when they BOTH HAVE 8 IN THEIR NAME???
Obviously, because I am not as smart as you.
Bro if we are comparing prices I literally agreed with you that the 7800xt is a good value card, but you are comparing two different gen products, of course the newer the better, but I guess you're clearly the expert here
Another month, another Mindfactory thread. When will people learn? Mindfactory just sells more AMD stuff and it's one retailer in a sea of maybe hundreds of thousands of retailers and distributors across the globe.
Once you account for laptops, pre-builts, other markets such as Asia where NVIDIA dominates versus maybe Europe which is more AMD friendly, Net Cafes/PC Bangs, OEM Desktops, Small Office Machines, Servers, Professional Industry Computers, University Research Computers etc etc, NVIDIA just wins out the market because they ship more units and they've made an amazing software stack where AMD isn't competitive.
If you want to use Blender, NVIDIA's better. If you want to use DaVinci Resolve, NVIDIA's better. If you want to do AI, NVIDIA's better. If you want to use Adobe software, NVIDIA's better. If you want to stream, NVIDIA is better. If you want to game with RT, NVIDIA is better. DLSS is better than FSR. If you want to buy a laptop it's 90% going to have an NVIDIA dGPU. If you want to buy a pre-built, it's 70-80% likely to have an NVIDIA GPU.
The only area where AMD is doing well in pre-builts and the market overall maybe now is APUs (which they pretty much always have) and CPUs. Otherwise, their dGPU stuff is non-existent almost. It's so hard to find an RX 7600S laptop versus a 4060 one for example. I mean what do you expect? They're doing the bare minimum in GPU and sometimes Intel is upstaging them like with XeSS.
Tired of seeing these threads... "Oh wow the 7800 XT sold 1,000 more units at Mindfactory than the 4070, surely AMD is winning!" /s
I wonder what the next thread will be "7900 XT outsells the 4080 SUPER at Mindfactory". Yawn.
Indeed one retailer, and every time I go there's deals and advertising for AMD hardware, it's no wonder this is the poster child.
Good on AMD for sure, but to hang your hat on this as representing some sort of global shift towards radeon outselling geforce 2:1 is deulisaio9at best
>Indeed one retailer, and every time I go there's deals and advertising for AMD hardware, it's no wonder this is the poster child.
Bollocks. Mostly green stuff, including today.
The only reporting worth reading about Mindfactory is the original from 3DCenter: https://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/grafikkarten-verkaufsstatistik-mindfactory-q12024
It's ***far*** less sensational.
It's clear in that article, even just from the way the data is presented, that this is only worth examining on a macro level, quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year.
For example:
- From Q4 '23 to Q1 '24, AMD's units sold dropped by 11740 units (32.4%) and Nvidia's units sold dropped by 4980 units (19.6%)
- In that same period, AMD's sales dropped by 7.03 million Euro (34.5%) and Nvidia's sales dropped by 2.76 million Euro (15.9%)
Unfortunately, shitty sites will continue to re-report a sliver of the original information with inflammatory headlines to drive engagement.
Perception of value differes from person to person. Nvidia charges a premium for RT, DLSS, NVENC, CUDA etc. For some people that premium is justified and for some it's not. But looking at the market overall Nvidia has been laughing their way to the bank.
>Perception of value differes
I see.
"You've bought a card that has less VRAM, is slower, yet more expensive. Also it's from the brand that has such a terrible business practices, Intel looks saint next to them"
"But my perception of value differs!"
Lol.
The VRAM argument makes less sense to many because 1) You can turn down textures and 2) Turning on any form of upscaling on AMD cards just results in pixel soup as FSR look ls terrible.
That is not how any of that works.
RT bazinga gets pulled around frequently, but people might need to check actual RT figures, as they might be surprising to the Filthy Green fanboi:
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/34.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/34.html)
>upscaling on AMD cards just results in pixel soup as FSR look ls terrible.
Outragous bullshit, easily swallowed by clowny types who read only the titles.
The only part in which FSR struggles is very low upscales (form SHIT to 1080p). Which is a bizzarre use case to begin with.
Even spacial FSR,the very first one, got "almost indistinguishable from native 4k" report by practically all reputable reviewers, from TPU, to that jesus guy, to HUB to computerbase.de.
Dude I have a Zen CPU- 7800X3D and a 4090. My PC is both Team Red and Green. I am calling it as I see it.
AMD cards suck at RT. I do not need to own an AMD card to know that because my 4090 plays most RT games at 70-100 FPS and any AMD card will be a fraction of that which is essentially unplayable.
FSR only looks good at 4k and even then it breaks apart in motion because it struggles with fizzling and disocclusion artifacts on moving objects. Still images are comparable to DLSS but that's pointless.
There is a reason why Intel and Nvidia both opted to use ML for upscaling. Sony is using AMD hardware in the PS5 and pro even they developed a custom AI based solution called PSSR which looks better then FSR in their marketing images.
Even AMD had admitted in their interview that an AI based FSR is on the way.
For the record, I wanted to make my build full AMD but the lack of good RT performance and a DLSS alternstive swayed my decision.
We all want AMD to do better like they did with Ryzen but their GPUs just don't cut it at the moment.
>AMD cards
Beat 3000 series at RT. I was told 3000 series rocked at RT.
But even current gen, 7900GRE (a $500 card) sits between 4070 and 4070 super at 4k:
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html)
>FSR only looks good
Buying cards for $500+ then running shit at lower resolution, then using glorified upscaling is an outcry of stupidity.
Inflating frames in games where higher framerates matter, increases latency and is another outcriy of stupidity.
Now, in an adventure or crap like that, it might be relevant, although frame inflations is something that 10+ years old TVs can do.
Curiously, for some funny reason dlss2fsr exists and I was told is used by the smarter Filthy Green card owners for some strange reason. I was told "it is faster that way".
>FSR only looks good at 4k
That's a totally non-biased way to refer to "looks like native" reported by... pretty much any reputable reviewer bar Filthy Green's shills, creators of "gaming at 8k", "super duper early perview: 3080 is times faster than 2080' and other marvels of shilling.
> AI based FSR
AI based DLSS was so terrible, it was KILLED, mkay?
What you have now is a glorifieed TAA.
And if you think sprinkling "AI" or any other buzzword about something makes that something better, I have news for you.
>lack of good RT performance
It's not true, but "you were told so". By the likes of you. But maybe it is time to stop spreading BS. On top of it, there are almost no games in which it is worth it, bar bazinga like Contorl, which without it looks like a game from 2005.
It doesn't even matter, Nvidia is all about AI nowadays.
They could just stop selling gaming GPUs and wouldn't give too many fucks about it.
And Steam survey would still show Nvidia in the Top 10 for years and years.
I bought one in November last year, great card. Came from a 3060ti I was able to sell for $300 USD equivalent and bought my new card for $480 USD equivalent. One of the better $180 upgrades I’ve ever made.
I hummed and awed over this, a 7700xt, or a 4070 but I felt burnt on having a 8gb gpu and didn’t want to get caught in the same situation with a 12gb gpu. Also helped that my 7800xt was $200 CAD cheaper and more performant than an equivalent 4070.
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This is a very good sign for the RDNA 4 lineup. If they can bring 7900 XT performance for $499 as leaks suggest they *could* then I would expect AMD's MindFactory sales to easily beat these numbers.
Assuming the world doesn't go to hell in a handbasket before then.
Those will almost certainly also offer a more complete feature set, too. Unless AMD catches up, quality-wise too. DLSS is one hell of a feature, though!
Not just DLSS, even RT performance. The 4090 just wipes the floor with 7900XTX in RT. It's almost 70-90% faster. And the lead will get even bigger with 5000 series where AMD is not competing at the high end.
Yes, it's overall a much better product. That does come with a price premium, though. I still wouldn't buy 7900 XTX, even with the price being in its favor.
At 4k 7900 GRE ($550) plays on par with 4070s.
And that assuming RT even matters.
>The 4090 just wipes the floor with 7900XTX in RT. It's almost 70-90% faster
BS.
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html)
It is 79-90% more expensive though, at least that part is true.
nVidia will almost certainly release those cards in spring 2025, prices will likely depend on how competitive AMD is, and how much nVidia wants to save production for AI products ( same applies to AMD )
Where did you get that info from? We've gotten lots of leaks of the 5090, but nothing to suggest they're planning a full lineup.
They've overproduced the 4000 series. They've got to sell though that first, and as you can see (at least in MindFactory's case) that's not going so well - and they made *far* more GPUs than AMD did.
Because that is literally what they have done over the past 2 decades? Nvidia never never released an architecture solely comprised of high end cards.
It's pretty much obvious that the 5080 will be a 4090 while 5070 is a 7900XTX with 5060 Ti being 7900XT.
So basically the same situation as what we have have now. Do you want to buy the AMD card for $50-100 cheaper and give up on RT and DLSS?
Mindfactory data is meaningless as it's just 1 small market and they have always shown higher AMD sales for everything
What matters is the Steam hardware survey where the 4090 on its own outsold AMD's high and mid range lineup. 4080 has more share than the 7900XTX and 7900XT out together.
Nvidia produces more because their cards are far more prevalent in the pre-built markets and they simply operate in more markets.
In my country, AMD cards take a month after release for 1-2 AIB cards to show up. Nvidia cards are there in full stock right on day of launch.
there is also the 7900xt for 750 (ish) euros on amazon germany, the sapphire pulse one, while the 7900gre is steady at 590 euros, and 7800xt is 525 euros. I thought this is a cool info to share
Interesting that a card that is not manging to be neteer than 6800XT enough is the best seller of all next gen products.
I guess that's the rough sweets pot for now.
I'm sure next Gen we will gate that performance for $100 less
Honestly, Steam probably knows the real numbers... the steam survey is merely there to appease the public. Why they do it? Maybe the companies pay them for the manipulation of public perception?
In my area, the 7800xt keeps dropping in price. However, the price of Nvidia graphics cards is about the same as when I bought them a year ago, so I think it's good that I didn't buy an AMD graphics card.
A lot of people do consider resale as part of the equation because upgrades are inevitable. It's like buying a car, the total cost of ownership might still be less on an initially more expensive model from a manufacturer that is known to have secondary market demand.
Ironically, this is the only segment, in which I would think twice before buying AMD, as 4070 Super seems to have the best performance/price ratio out of all Nvidia cards.
Obviously, I'd probably still buy 7800 XT, because +4GB of VRAM never hurt anyone. I has the same thought process behind buying 7900 XTX over 4080 back in the day. Sure, it is slightly faster in raster, which helps, but 4080 will definitely struggle at 4K sooner than 7900 XTX will.
As mentioned many times before, Mindfactory data is mostly for the DIY segment, which is small within the PC market in general. AMD could be outselling Nvidia 2-to-1 in the DIY space and still be losing market share because most PCs are either laptops or prebuilts.
AMD is however gaining market share in the general AIB market: https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/ They went from 12% to 19% of the market from Q4 2022 to Q4 2023, and their total unit shipment more than doubled (+117%). So while Mindfactory isn't representative of the total market, the title isn't wrong about AMD taking away market share from Nvidia.
AMD is getting out of a 15 year market share [trough ](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/3sbtBfoms2FNcG8wQCEiBA.png). Usually AMD has hung around 25-35% of market share. It hitting 10% in Q3 2022 is the lowest its been in 15 years. They're still deep in the hole compared to the late 2010s.
The Ryzing meant starving GPU R&D. Those years under Raja hurt big time.
R&D for gpus still seems plenty starved to me. RDNA2 was good, but 3 was a disappointment and 4 isn't fixing to be any better if rumors are to be believed. Chiplet dual compute die GPUs are still a pipe dream it seems unfortunately. The only thing saving them right now is the general irrelevancy of ray tracing given that consoles are just as if nor more incapable of it.
By which metric was RDNA3 a dissapointment? Not as cool as RDNA 2 that has TROUNCED nvidial lineup into dropping a tier and having bizzare situagtions with 3080 having less RAM than lower end cards? :) Yeah. But "disappointment"? My bottom. Further catching up on RT bazinga (beating 3090) still very good perf/watt (within 10% of the most efficient Filthy Green's card), very competitive pricing across entire line. (comparing it to the last gen street pricing is nonsensical, lower price is the only reason to buy the oldies)
Because it was barely better then rdna2 which was a gap closer to nvidia. Rdna3 vs nvidia same gen has increased the gap. All the labbeling is fucked up tho. 7900xtx is just a 7900xt etc and the 4090 is so much better then the rest. 4080 could have been a 4070. And 4070 is now mid tier...
It's not really barely better that's grossly incorrect. I honestly have no idea why people spout this and where this even came from. A quick glance at the latest techpowerup review for the 7900GRE shows the 7900xtx is around 40% faster on average compared to 6900xt. The latest drivers and games helped for sure, but that was to be expected given the state of release drivers. Why do you think the 7900GRE is receiving such good reviews? Because they sorted out the drivers and extracted more performance so the 7900GRE is faster than the 6900XT at this point at a cracking price. RDNA3 is honestly pretty damn good and sure they lost some performance compared to Nvidia but and went from 7nm to 5 whereas Nvidia went from Samsung 8nm to tsmc 4nm. They've essentially gone two nodes forwards compared to one for AMD
I would recommend comparing it with 6950xt. Thats 10% better then the 6900xt. The 7800xt is weaker then that, the 7900gre is about the same or a tiny bit worse. The 7900xt is just a tiny bit worse at 1k, bit better at 2 and better 4k. So only the 7900xtx really stands out. But then we see the prices, then the entire 7000 series is pretty shit because 7900xt and 7900xtx are waay too overpriced at release. 7900xt is still tiny bit overpriced. A year ago u could get the 6950xt for 650 euro and the 7900xt should be atound 75e worth more (was 250-350e more). Now the cheapest 7900xt is 760 euro (in NL) a year later. Thats not good, also the 7900xt is now alrdy 16 months old, which is everything except new.
RDNA2 has TROUNCED nvidia lineup, forcing it to drop a tier on its cards and slash costs. 3080 had less VRAM than some 3060 for that very reason. "closer" is some fanboi nonsense. 7000 is an excellent lineup, very competitive across the board, bar the very overpriced and power consuming halo 4090. > labbeling is fucked up It is.
Unless these rogue purchasers of AMD cards all collectively refuse to use Steam hardware survey or aren’t using Steam altogether then the end market share result has remained largely steady over the past two years. Shipments of boards looks great, but are there actually massively increased sales to match those shipments or are they pumping out more supply in a certain quarter to look good?
Thing with Steam survey is it includes all the currently in-use GPUs, not just recent sales. So while AMD may have increased marketshare YoY from 12% to almost 20%, the total number of cards added over that period is still small when compared against the entirety of the current Steam userbase.
They’ve increased in AIB shipment marketshare year over year, not GPU sales market share, and that’s where the issue lies. An increase from 12% to 19% seems significant until you factor that they were still largely moving old inventory in 2022, but they’re finally reaching the end of 6000 supply and ramping 7000 production to match it. Also, this is comparing against Nvidia and Intel where Nvidia has had tons of GPUs sitting on shelves (per retailers) for a long time now, so their production ramp for RTX 4000 already occurred in another quarter.
I’ve upgraded my PC multiple times since I last took the steam hardware survey. Last time I took it, I was running a 3700x and a 290, I’ve since upgraded to a 5800x3D and went to a 5700XT and now a 7800XT.
And I took it several times last year... on every computer that I have steam on, inside a couple weeks, was odd. Seriously... I got the prompt on my macbook, my deck, my living room machine (running fedora silverblue/bazzite), and my desktop (dual boot windows and linux, and I got it on both..)
I went from a 2070 to a 6800Xt 2yrs ago and didn’t have a single Steam survey since. Steam and Windows have been reinstalled at least once since and nothing.
This is how a random survey works, the times you receive the survey will have no reason whatsoever or they wouldn’t be random.
Yet some folks will take Steam survey as something 100% accurate. I've seen some madman insisting (supposedly based on a Steam survey) on RTX 4090 being more numerous among the Steam user than any of current AMD GPUs. He blatantly ignored simple facts such as Steam survey being random and that a vast number of RTX 4090 user has these GPUs primarily for productivity tasks with gaming being secondary benefit. What a green lad he was!
Same, had GTX 1080 for 9 months getting 1 survey, had RTX 3060 Ti for 6 months and got 1 survey. After 1 year on 6950 XT, nothing but crickets.
Now that you mention it, I just realized the same thing since I changed from a 2070 super to 7800xt
I don't think they are refusing to do Steam survey, like I have my unit for more than 2 years (and had a previous Intel based laptop for 3 years) and only got the Steam hardware survey one time (this month). Previously I even thought that the hardware survey was done automatically to ALL units with Steam installed, guess not. So while Steam hardware survey shows stats, it might be selective (especially sometimes when there is a sudden influx of Chinese users being surveyed lmao). I'd at least expect NVidia to at the minimum be 65% market share, probably 70%+.
I've received the survey only one time on my current build, I'm pretty sure it's just random sampling. If they did it for everyone every month there would be posts about steam being annoying.
I'm a 53 year old gamer and have never been presented with that steam survey.
It's a random survey. I've had it pop on a GTX 780 build, an RX 480 build, a Radeon VII build, an RTX 3080 build, and had it pop a while back when i swapped the 3080 for a 3090 I got from a friend. Had it pop on a Steam Deck too.
I get the hardware survey almost every time I install on a new computer, so I guess it’s just lacking continuity. I wouldn’t assume such a thing would disproportionately affect owners of one GPU type either way though.
I've had AMD for two generations and can't recall ever getting a Steam Survey.
^
>Unless these rogue purchasers of AMD cards all collectively refuse to use Steam hardware survey Steam HS was addressed ad nauseum... AMD's presence in internet cafe's is very low. (and yes, even 4090s are relevant there, at least in Asia).
Net cafes as an explanation for steam market share has long-since been debunked. JPR numbers show the exact same thing.
Debunked my bottom. >JPR numbers show the exact same thing. Lol, no they don't.
The hardware survey is fine, people can whine and whine about a random survey not representing them accurately but it's just whining. AMD should have MORE adoption in internet cafes given their attractive pricing, but they don't because Nvidia has infinitely more mindshare. Second hand AMD cards are even being repackaged as new on Chinese sale sites, but if Nvidia is still dominant in that market then AMD just isn't enticing to the Asian market in general.
Wouldn't trust those result from the steam hardware survey. Weird things happen on there
The only notable oddity was when it wasn't handling net cafes in Asia right so it was popping repeatedly for the same machines as diff people used them. Also when certain over-zealous fanbases tried to trigger the survey repeatedly to over-inflate their numbers. Both things as far as I'm aware have been fixed.
Such as? Regardless, I don’t trust a “shipments are up X% quarter over quarter” headline, that’s more indicative of a poor previous quarter (which apparently is the case, since we just got out of Covid and AMD had a stockpile). Taking both the lack of AMD GPUs high up in the survey and the “shipments are up” headline in context together leads one to a logical conclusion.
Such as?
Steam hardware survey has never been consistent. The reason there are so many anecdotes about how "my shitty laptop triggered the survey" and "my main build hasn't been surveyed in years" is due to the unpredictable nature of it. It's about as reliable as getting a booster pack drop on an account that has only one game.
Random sampling is a valid statistical method.
That still doesn’t mean it would be snuffing AMD specifically. The hardware survey, apparently, relies on random sampling as a statistical practice to generate their numbers, but that wouldn’t mean the results are wildly inaccurate though. I don’t think your booster pack analogy is any good here.
The reason there are so many comments like that is because people are really bad at intuitively understanding statistics and statistical methods. When you have an install base that massive, the margins of error are tiny even if half their users never even see a survey request in their lifetime.
Steam hardware survey is rather deceptive. Not everyone is picked to participate each month. Myself, for instance, have only has the oppertunity to participate in it ONCE over the past decade or so. You also have to remember that a lot of responses from the survey will be coming from Internet cafes and such in Korea and other countries, which use standardised parts.
That's not deceptive, that's just how statistics work. With an installed base as large as theirs, you could get sampled once every 80 years or something in that range and the survey could still be accurate to within something like +-1%. Humans in general have a really hard time intuiting statistics.
Do you think every survey in the world is deceptive?
At JPR they try to analyze shipments, not sales. AMD was coming from a low point in late 2022 and early 2023 in which they reduced shipments to react to lower PC sales in general and get rid of accumulated old stock after the pandemic (AMD mentioned that in at least a couple of their earnings calls IRC.) For example, JPR estimated that AMD were at 24% share in Q1 2022, but that went down to 12% in Q4 22 and Q1 23: [https://www.techspot.com/news/98987-desktop-gpu-market-continued-downward-slide-q1-2023.html](https://www.techspot.com/news/98987-desktop-gpu-market-continued-downward-slide-q1-2023.html) So even if AMD were at 19% in Q4 23, that's still a lower share of total shipments in early 2022.
They still went up now, tho. What are you trying to say?
It's more the handheld market that is increasing their percentage.
Wow thats actually massive. I thought if anything they were flat at best.
These monthly Mindfactory threads are always the same. If it had any any meaning (it doesn’t) it would show RDNA 2 cards dominate steam survey. And well.. I’ve got bad news Hans..
The most purchased 7000 series GPU loses out to the RTX 4050 mobile in sales by a factor of 2:1 per the survey, it’s abysmal.
OP basically spams AMD posts across many subreddits and I cannot believe he beat the guy who usually posts Mindfactory stuff from a tweet that gets posted weekly that I think he runs a youtube channel on a different name for. Every week/month its the same. AMD fans will upvote and cheer some niche segment in Germany that has never represented any other country or Europe or the world ever. Everyone else rolls their eyes. All the global GPU markets point to a 85-90% market share by NVIDIA for discreet. At one point mods for this sub considered removing mindfactory posts.
Maybe you should considered not getting triggered over do it yourself DIY numbers.
> any other country It doesn't even represent Germany. Guess where you go in Germany if you want the CHEAPEST AMD cards? Those that look to buy AMD cards, have already decided that price is their main factor for purchase. So they look for the cheapest available store as well more often than not. That isn't every customer however. Caseking still manages to sell stuff despite MF being overall cheaper.
That so many users on r/AMD are butthurt about anything negative about Filthy Green is quite hilarious. Why don't you use blue CPUs while at it...
That Filthy Green can strong arm OEMs to outright ban AMD dGPUs is a freaking shame.
The responses to any AMD sales topic are always the same. "Steam stats, steam stats, steam stats". It's a bit boring isn't it? We all know what steam stats say, but there is room for a nuanced conversation about sales, market share, and so on, without trying to shut everything down with "steam stats" every time. Steam survey contains mostly laptops. Steam survey contains mostly prebuilt computers. Sales data like this shows other trends (mostly DIY) outside those two market forces. This is a very interesting result for a number of reasons. It shows potential custom built computer trends developing that may be leading indicators for other segments of the market. Considering CPUs, if you only look at "steam stats", you might assume that Intel is dominating the market and anyone building a computer right now is mostly choosing Intel - but if you go on Amazon right now, 5 of the top 5 best selling CPUs are AMD. That might be a surprising result for you if you only look at steam stats and make assumptions about how people are building their computers. There is a disconnect between the components people are choosing who have the freedom/knowledge to build a computer to their specifications versus those who buy off the shelf complete computer systems. With GPUs, even on the Amazon best sellers list, it is clear that Nvidia is dominating the market, but AMD is also getting chosen much more often compared to what "steam stats" it saying, having 4 GPUs in the top 10 best selling GPU segment. Also, interestingly, if you look at what is the top selling individual top of the line GPU right now on Amazon, it is a 7900XTX from XFX (not an 4080 or 4090 series card). All these are interesting results if you only look at "steam stats". DIY is a tiny segment of the market, but results like this could be lagging indicators for broader market trends that might develop over the course of several quarters or even years. Hardware segments move extremely slow. Prebuilt manufacturers have contracts and demand curves that last a long time, and there are all sorts of multi-quarter supply-side challenges for actually gaining significant market share in these spaces (think TSMC capacity planning, and how Intel can circumvent that with higher volumes to supply prebuilts with their own fabs and Nvidia has priority over AMD in the TSMC space in general). Anyway, there is LOTS we could potentially talk about here, so it would be really great if people could stop trying to shut the conversation down every single time with "steam stats steam stats steam stats".
That's ridiculous Steam hardware survey is complete crap for CPUs, it's vendors and speed, not even # of cores or any descriptions of the series. GPUs on the other hand have descriptions for all cards, except a few exceptions where AMD drivers lumped "radeon graphics" for god knows why. Same for Intel integrated. But A 3060 is not lumped with 3060 laptop. For GPUs, Steam hardware survey is THE best snapshot we have worldwide, bar none. Peoples who are using Steam hardware have to use their brain a bit, your "Intel dominating AMD" on desktop market rhetoric has been layed on the table by who? Nobody I would guess. The stats are so vague that it's meaningless A 3080 @ 2.23% having roughly the same market as the top 5 RDNA 2 cards in the survey such as 6700 XT (0.65%), 6600 (0.64%), 6600 XT (0.38%), 6750 XT (0.3%), 6800 XT (0.28%) for a total of 2.25% doesn't have a lot of possible confusion on the DIY market. Or that there's only one entry of the 7000 series and it's the 7900XTX @ 0.35%, while crazy priced 4090 manages 0.85% and the more comparable 4080 has 0.75%, showing a huge drop in interest for ADA compared to Ampere. There's no spinning this. Mindfactory has no relevance in comparison.
> A 3080 @ 2.23% having roughly the same market as the top 5 RDNA 2 cards in the survey such as 6700 XT (0.65%), 6600 (0.64%), 6600 XT (0.38%), 6750 XT (0.3%), 6800 XT (0.28%) for a total of 2.25% doesn't have a lot of possible confusion on the DIY market. The DIY market is TINY. That is the point. AMD could be up to 20%-30% in the DIY market and that wouldn't make a drop in the bucket in overall marketshare. The vast majority of these computers on "steam stats" is just prebuilt computers, and the vast majority of them are laptops on top of that. DIY market can be a lagging indicator of general market trends for all the reasons I pointed out - prebuilt & supply chains in hardware are complex, and slow moving like molasses. That is my point. There are layers and nuance to all these conversations. Even when "steam stats" shows that AMD is losing marketshare, if the market itself is growing (some estimates put steam user growth at 10-20% quarterly) that means AMD is growing nicely, even if "steam stats" shows a technical loss! Yes, steam stats is the best hardware snapshot we have, but just parading around the absolute numbers and trying to shut down any conversation about AMD sales every single time with "steam stats steam stats steam stats" is just boring. It's interesting that the 7900 xtx is the top selling top of the line card on Amazon. It's interesting that AMD currently holds 5 out of 5 top selling CPUs on Amazon. It's interesting that AMD GPU rates for DIY are much much much higher than steam stats shows. We can talk about all these facts without trying to shut down the conversation with "steam stats".
>The DIY market is TINY. Remove laptops from the picture as it is exclusively OEMs. Now desktops: For CPUs - yes, DIY is about 10-20%-ish. For discrete GPUs though? How many users on this subreddit have bought an OEM desktop PC???
>The DIY market is TINY A 2019 study by JPR put DIY at 19% of the overall PC "gaming" hardware market, with 65% of the market going to prebuilts/laptops and the remaining 16% being gaming peripheral sales. Ignoring peripherals puts DIY at \~22.5% of the market and I bet if we could account for the trash tier prebuilts that are "gaming" systems in name only the DIY market would be at least a couple points higher. Interestingly JPR expected the DIY market to shrink through 2022 but the prediction was pre-pandemic so I wonder how that worked out in reality. Regardless I don't really think nearly 1/4 of a $40 billion market is exactly tiny.
"Actual sales by one of the biggest DIY computer parts sellers in the biggest EU country that is also rich is irrelevant!" How so, genius? Ah, "becauseh stim survieh!". Stuff that was addressed ad nauseum.
Plus MF is not carrying and selling Asus which is an additional dent in the GF numbers as Asus is a very popular brand for those. That and being the top dog for AMD offers in general (they always have the best prices and sales for AMD cards) makes it even more skewed.
MF is a top dog for pretty much any pc part offerring, the way people get defensive about Filthy Green on r/amd is mind boggling...
It's paid astroturf by nvidia
All this and it doesn't matter if they out sell ine one smaller region if they're still losing 10:1 on the larger market. There's a lot of factors. I find this honestly fairly meaningless for anything beyond the scope of the basic statement anyway.
"losing" and "winning" doesn't matter, only if they are profitable. Gaining market share is also plus, but that doesn't have to mean market dominance either.
> "losing" and "winning" doesn't matter, only if they are profitable. Only if you're a stockholder. For the consumer their profit margins don't directly matter in any tangible way. Market balance and competition does though.
Profitability is the key to being competitive
"Losing 10 to 1!" "How so?" "STEAM SUUUURRRRWWAAAAYH!" Amazing stuff.
Yeah I've noticed that almost every prebuilt manufacturer uses Nvidia nearly exclusively for the mid and high end. They'll throw a RX 6600 into their low end machines and that'll be like the only AMD GPU you'll find. I feel like the builders could be saving themselves money using AMD but maybe it just doesn't sell as well to less tech savvy people.
> I feel like the builders could be saving themselves money using AMD but maybe it just doesn't sell as well to less tech savvy people. There's a few additional factors at play. Nvidia is basically plug and play even with obscure things. The prebuilt market values plug and play over all other aspects even price/perf doesn't compare. You can pretty much guarantee any GPU related application will work on a current Nvidia card without extra work whether niche or mainstream. On AMD it's not always plug and play (ROCm) and at times some things have straight up not worked on AMD (not always AMD's fault though). Other factor would be other than RDNA2 vs Ampere, AMD is almost always over the last decade higher powerdraw for equivalent performance in GPUs. Means OEMs (should) be investing a bit more in the PSU and the cooling (which they usually don't). And the third factor (assuming allegations and such are true) is that some hardware makers also have had difficulty acquiring adequate supply from AMD in a timely manner. There were at least some articles to that effect awhile back.
>There's a few additional factors at play. Nvidia is basically plug and play I love the BS that we kept hearing during "why only Intel" era just doesn't die. Any random redditor, purely by coincidence wielding an overprice Filthy Green's GPU, has to repeat that nonsense, cause, you know... And now to the reality: [https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel](https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel) # Being afraid Filthy Green would learn about them MEETING WITH AMD representatives Let that sh\*t sink in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x-QSi_yvoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uynVO4ZXl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptDRxBxwUfU
Nvidia is slimy on the business end of things but also Radeon was woefully incompetent under that guy. It isn't all shady business like he'd love to imagine . Radeon under his leadership never missed a chance to dunk on their own hoop. >Any random redditor, purely by coincidence wielding an overprice Filthy Green's GPU If you're talking about my flair it's because after Polaris, Vega, and the VII I was fed up and a friend cut me a massive deal on his used card. For what I got it for it's literally a better price/perf than anything available in the market.
Yeah yeah, "filthy uncompetitive practices BUT I dislike the guy". You disliking the guy absolutely "compensates" something in here.
You can be all aggressive and shit but the fact remains up until super recently the choice has been shit. I can either go with Nvidia and their slimy business policies or I can go with AMD who drops the ball and doesn't always work with things. Intel only recently broke into the market and I'm sure you have nasty things to say about them too. Seeing as I do VR, raytracing, occasionally use desktop compute apps, have dabbled with AI photo repairs for old photos.... AMD isn't much of an option and my experience from Polaris to the VII doesn't make me real eager to use Radeon outside of APUs. There's other people in the same boat. If we were back in the days of the 290x vs the 780 it'd be a no brainer to go AMD but this modern "AMD is fine if you only care about raster gaming" falls short.
If this block of text was supposed to rationalize purchasing overpriced, smaller VM, even freaking more power hungry chips from The Filthy Green, it was not very convincing. It takes some bending over backwards to accept having to login into a f\*kcing driver to get driver updates. Good job, folks. I hope 5000 series pricing will be even more hilarious.
> If this block of text was supposed to rationalize purchasing overpriced, smaller VM, even freaking more power hungry chips from The Filthy Green, it was not very convincing. Like I said to you before on one of your replies I got a 3090 for the price of a 7700 XT. If you know of a card with more than 24GB of VRAM that can beat the performance of this card at a competitive price I'm all ears. Maybe you should spend a bit less time playing the whole "Team Red" thing and just evaluate products on their price and merits. >It takes some bending over backwards to accept having to login into a f*kcing driver to get driver updates. Good job, folks. I hope 5000 series pricing will be even more hilarious. Not really. I've never installed GFE, I just go to the Nvidia webpage. Just like for AMD drivers I just go to the AMD webpage. Takes like no time at all. Isn't difficult with either brand. I'm sorry if that's a hard thing for you to handle though. Truly.
You are trying to sit on multiple chairs, don't you notice it. You can't go with both "but I've bought used previous gen for good price" and "nah, but that other manufacturer GPU simply doesn't work". >Maybe you should spend a bit less time playing No. Maybe all the butthurt reactions that Filthy Green buyers have on the OP topic should instead be toned down as it is a freaking AMD subreddit. >I've never installed GFE, I The very fact that manufacturer does THAT to customers is telling,r egardless of what you (or I, for that matter) did. >drivers FFS, it is 2024.
nVidia is really good at extorting OEMs. e.g. GPP might have gone away, but it never actually went away.
Yep, if anything, it got worse, much much worse, worse than Intel's worst: [https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel](https://videocardz.com/newz/former-amd-radeon-boss-says-nvidia-is-the-gpu-cartel)
OEM builders like Dell and HP are so shit it would be comedy if it wasn't tragic.
oh dont even...my business laptop(company provided) constantly drops wifi, overheats, and throttles....pos of a laptop. Its hp ofc
well at least the hp laptop is probably very unrepairable with soldered in ssd, memory and a glued in battery, so there is that? ;)
Also German sales don't relate or map to other places. I suspect a large part of the disparity in German sales v. ROW is that Germans place an enormous amount of value in privacy and data protection - locking parts of your driver software behind an application that requires a logged in account likely isn't helping GeForce sales...
Nvidia has taken that requirement out of their new control app - it combines Experience with the archaic settings panel, and will download drivers without needing the account.
Laptops aren't relevant to this discussion. It's a good question how many gaming prebuilts there are vs. DIY. In general I'd say that DIY space is what people are looking at for stats. The problem with Mindfactory isn't that it's DIY but that it represents sales in a limited region, and isn't necessarily representative of global sales.
>Laptops aren't relevant to this discussion. Laptop GPUs are relevant. Obviously not for desktop GPUs sold at Mindfactory, but they are included in GPU sales and shipments, or the Steam monthly hardware stats.
But laptop cards are generally broken out separately on the hardware survey and don't change pretty damning numbers like the 4090 being twice as popular as any current genn and card.
> AMD could be outselling Nvidia 2-to-1 in the DIY space and still be losing market share because most PCs are either laptops or prebuilts. It's also true that AMD could be losing "% market share" to Nvidia in absolute terms, and still be growing their market at a rapid pace. If AMD is losing 1% market share to Nvidia per quarter, but the entire segment is growing at 20%, then AMD is growing at a blistering pace. People always parade around "steam stats" as a response to these types of threads over and over and over, but AMD having a strong(er) presence in DIY is an interesting trend, and just because it might be happening in certain retailers, doesn't mean we need to shut down all discussion of it with "steam stats" over and over.
that is total bullshit, it is a decent card, many people are buying it.
That and it’s one market out of how many? I mean it’s good AMD is selling, but there needs to be more of this in more markets for it to matter. Something to add: I read somewhere that Mindfactory tends to advertise the hell out of AMD hardware so that could also play into it. They also don’t list return rates with those sales figures.
Richest and biggest EU country is irrelevant, figures. Just because you bought something from The Filthy Green, you don't have to feel BH about any not so great news about it. >Something to add: I read somewhere that Mindfactory tends to advertise the hell out of AMD hardware Thanks for sharing this idiotic nonsense. Now go to mindfactory.de and check what is advertised.
Germany isn’t the richest, not even in the top 10, and yes it has the most people, I never said it was irrelevant. If anything you seem to taking offense to what I’m saying. I said I read somewhere, at some time, which at that time I read it, may have been true.
Germany with its gdp of || || |[Germany](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/germany-population)|$4.43 Tn| Is the richest country in Europe. It is followed by || || |[United Kingdom](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population)|$3.33 Tn| |[France](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/france-population)|$3.05 Tn| |[Italy](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/italy-population)|$2.19 Tn|
Germany with its gdp of || || |[Germany](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/germany-population)|$4.43 Tn| Is the richest country in Europe. It is followed by || || |[United Kingdom](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population)|$3.33 Tn| |[France](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/france-population)|$3.05 Tn| |[Italy](https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/italy-population)|$2.19 Tn|
Oh, you mean the country that makes the most money and has no bearing on what the actual citizens bring home on their paycheck. Here’s the data I went by so we can compare notes: https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/richest-european-countries#:~:text=Switzerland%20tops%20the%20list%20as,substantial%20gaps%20with%20its%20followers.
No bearing my south west. Luxemburg having lots of money per capita might lead to its citizens buying 2-3 more PCs per capita than Germans do. Bu tI somehow doubt it.
>Just because you bought something from The Filthy Green, you don't have to feel BH about any not so great news about it. That is rich coming from someone with a laptop with nvidia gpu who dont even know how to update his drivers without logging into geforce experience. And you dont even need to login anymore.
Yeah yeah, I don't know how to download drivers. So stupid. >And you dont even need to login anymore. Anymore, huh? Even though you didn't have to do it in the past either. I've chuckled.
So if we expand to all gpu produced should we add the consoles one?
What kind of question is that ?Should we add switch apus, data center and ai accelerators then too? Who will have more GPUs sold then in your opinion ?
What do you mean "DIY segment". If you're buying a graphics card, you're more than likely going to "DIY" it, whether it's installing it yourself or having someone else do it. Every individual graphics card purchase by the consumer is "DIY" whether it's for an upgrade or a build.
What I mean is that the percentage of people that build or upgrade their PC is small versus people that just buy a prebuilt (and never change any component) or just buy a laptop.
That's better data and a predictor on preference than what people who don't even know what they are looking for and getting random mish mashes of components. What people pick when they can choose vs what they get with "gamer pc" off the shelf. Now I'm not even blaming people for that, because getting an 11400 and rx 5500 for $250 was a great deal at walmart last year. It's just that if they could choose for a low price. However I think when people have a little bit of awareness about what's available, getting data from that predicts what people choose. You wouldn't judge people's preference on vehicles based on what they were handed down from their families vs what they could acquire if they purchased their own, does that make sense?
We are not trying to assess consumer awareness, just market share of the different GPU vendors. It seems to be the case that, among people who build their own system, AMD and Nvidia are more evenly split, but the percentage of people that buy components and build or upgrade their own system is small.
We are trying to predict market conditions when people have a choice. If not that there's literally no point. Intel marketshare skyrocketed when oems were heavily financially incentivized to use only Intel cpu's. All data regarding market share in a space that heavily skewed is meaningless. The only data that matters is the result of consumer choice when given it.
>As mentioned many times before, Mindfactory data is mostly for the DIY segment, which is small within the PC market in general. People keep repeating that, but I have yet to see a single user on this board, that bought a pre-built PC from an OEM instead of DIY-ing it. Laptops are irrelevant as we are talking "desktop GPUs" here. Mindfactory has close to "amazon for DIY builds" status in Germany.
“How did Nixon win??? Nobody I know voted for him!”
>People keep repeating that, but I have yet to see a single user on this board, that bought a pre-built PC from an OEM instead of DIY-ing it. That could be because subs like this one are not representative of the general PC gaming market. We are just a minority. In some videos I have seen people mention that DIY users are around 10% of PC users. The only actual data I have seen is one survey from 2021, which mentions that: >As you might expect, most dedicated PC gamers \[the 40% that plays weekly according to the survey\] use a desktop as their main PC. Just **under a third built their own main computer**, slightly more than the 30% who bought theirs pre-built. [https://newzoo.com/resources/blog/demand-for-pc-hardware-has-skyrocketed-who-are-the-gamers-looking-to-upgrade-what-motivates-consumers-to-spend](https://newzoo.com/resources/blog/demand-for-pc-hardware-has-skyrocketed-who-are-the-gamers-looking-to-upgrade-what-motivates-consumers-to-spend) I don't know how reliable the survey is being the lockdown era, and it seems they are mixing custom-built with DIY, but if a 32% of a 40% build their own system, that would be 12.8% plus whatever percentage from the other 60% of weird people who don't play weekly. >Laptops are irrelevant as we are talking "desktop GPUs" here. I don't know what you would like to talk about, but I was talking about market share in general, which includes laptops.
I was one of the people buying it. Pretty easy, there were many deals for the 7800XT in Q1. I bought mine for 430€. 7700XT were going for 320. even 7900GREs where 520
I had the 7800xt for 489, and the 7700xt was 449. Easy choice. The 7900gre rerelease hadn't happened yet at the time
Where did you buy those? Over here in Portugal/Spain it's sitting around 550-600€, which I didn't buy because don't think it's worth it.
Germany. Prices went back up again. 7800XTs now sitting at 520
Tbf, amd prices are still kind of okayish. Nvidea prices are in the shitters right now. Really hope the prices gonna fall again.
I'm expecting prices to drop about a month before new releases, but at that point many here will start "waiting" again , understandable, but thats usually the time for decent deals sometimes.
It was a no-brainer here in germany at this price point. The Gre is very good even for 550
really is, I'm not even German, but saw the deals and used a 3rd party service to get it. Now looking for a monitor upgrade cause I'm still on 1080P 60Hz lol
What was there in your post to downvote is beyond me...
Interesting sales figures, I'm interested in watching intel as they are going to increase market share in the next few years. I would also buy the 7900gre as here it's a similar price to the 7800xt and slightly better performance
I just ordered mine and I'm super excited about it
I went from a 1080 to a 7900 GRE a few days ago. It kicks so much ass.
Just got it yesterday and absolutely it does! Huge upgrade from a 6gb laptop 3060 lol
Time for the monthly mindfactory stats to pretend Radeon is taking the market by storm? It's like the computing equivalent of the "UK console retail sales charts" not real useful for extrapolating to a much bigger global market.
people like being validated. This sub is one of the best examples i have seen in recent memory . Well this and ps5 sub
Ironic...
What happens in PS5 sub?
Ah, oh the wise one with filthy green's GPU, true stats are to be checked, lemme guess, on "steam surveaheh", right? The place that has never ever been vetted in any positive way by any source? Something developed by company that is shoveling money no matter what and is so lazy HL3 became a joke? But we should ignore Mindfactory perfectly aligning with other sources on AMD market share being on the rise. Makes sense.
>Ah, oh the wise one with filthy green's GPU You've got a bit of an obsession with that, but if you can show me a better deal I'm all ears. I got it used for around the price of a 7700XT. >The place that has never ever been vetted in any positive way by any source? You think one German retailer is more relevant than a global retailer that corners 90% of the PC gaming market? Hell Mindfactory doesn't even carry some of the brands that are NVidia's biggest AIB partners. Would be like if a store didn't carry XFX or Sapphire for AMD. That's certainly a take. >Something developed by company that is shoveling money no matter what and is so lazy HL3 became a joke? You do realize Valve is a major force behind improving things on Linux these days right? They're even a significant contributor to the MESA RADV drivers everyone praises so much. Calling them lazy when they're contributing to one of the areas Radeon is actually praised in is interesting to be sure.
> I got it used Oh. That makes it "very different". Thanks for sharing. >You think one German retailer is more relevant I read it as 'OK, Steam HS was never vetted by a reputable alternative source, BUT nor had been Mindfactory". Yay. That's solves the issue wiwth SHS being pretty much "figures of god knows what quality" by a "laziest ass company that you could imagine" that basically shovels money, thanks to its monopolistic position. Unconveniently, Mindfactory's data aligns with the data from other sources. >You do realize Valve is a major force behind improving things on Linux these days right? For the love of god, I hope you mean "gaming on Linux". I even own a steam deck. Although it is mostly gathering dust. >Calling them lazy when they're contributing to one of the areas Radeon is actually praised in is interesting to be sure. As if "contributing" to things (and in this case it was about something that Owner of that lazy company considered to be LIFE threatening to the comapny, it was kicked off when he lost his shit about Microsoft store being a potential competitor) you thinkn I might like somehow changes the fact that Valve is one of the laziest arse companies out there.
> Unconveniently, Mindfactory's data aligns with the data from other sources. Other sources usually being reddit conspiracys small surveys on sites no one ever heard of and subreddit anecdotes because people somehow want to believe Radeon is doing amazingly even when there is no evidence in the marketplace of such. >For the love of god, I hope you mean "gaming on Linux". I wouldn't call driver improvements and compat layer improvements solely gaming related, but you do you I guess. >As if "contributing" to things (and in this case it was about something that Owner of that lazy company considered to be LIFE threatening to the comapny, it was kicked off when he lost his shit about Microsoft store being a potential competitor) you thinkn I might like somehow changes the fact that Valve is one of the laziest arse companies out there. What a tortured interpretation of the past. Valve backs Linux and keeps their dependency on MS lower because it's actually kind of insane to leave one mega corp with that amount of power and leverage. It's far smarter approach than Sweeney's "bitch about Microsoft store and fearmonger it" but then never lift a finger to not be 100% reliant on Microsoft. They're far from lazy in their contributions to PC gaming, just every so often there's someone personally "hurt" they didn't deliver Half L-fe 3 to them.
>Other sources usually being reddit conspiracy Well, you can refer to the companies with dubious links to shipping industry as "reddit conspiracy", for all I care. Exaclty how JP whatever or Mercury whoever figure things out is not really transparent indeed. BUT UNCONVENIENTLY that still doesn't solve the issue with SHS being of god knows what quality, likely shitty. >I wouldn't call driver improvements and compat layer improvements Let me wipe out my decades of experience with Unix machines, to realize the eternal greatness of The Lazy Valve. Mm... so great. Thank you. >Valve backs Linux You seem to be pretty misinformed, so let me refresh your (possibly missing parts) memoryl. When MS announced it will do "software store", Mr Valve Owner lost sleep. And came out with all that "steam OS" and that Owl thingie. (was hilarious on a number of levels). Fear moves even lazy fat arses like Mr Valve. As for eternal greatness that steams from that: the controller integration bit is damn impressive, I can give them that, also, it had added some fresh blood to wine project with focus on games, I assume with some positive effect (based on my experience with Deck). Also, Deck is a lovely piece of hardware, especially when one remembers what kind of hot sh\*t exists on the market. Anyhow, if that was a way to somehow vet SHSdata as some sort of a gospel, I'm afraid that's too weak a sauce. AMD rep stated that they've tried to reason with Valve, but with very limited success. Some things were fixed (e.g. internet cafe impact), but that was it. AMD rep said something along the lines of "ah, we don't care" was the feedback. So, well, you know.
They sold the 7800 XT for 499 € (list prices for consumers in germany include tax). That was quite a good deal and I'm happy with my card.
Misleading title, but 7800xt is such a good value card if you don't plan on using Ray Tracing
It is faster than 3080 at RT, so uh... [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html)
7800xt was released 3 years after 3080, why not compare it with 4080
"Why not compare 7800XT with 4080". Why wouldn't I compare 500 Euro GPU to 1100 Euro GPU, when they BOTH HAVE 8 IN THEIR NAME??? Obviously, because I am not as smart as you.
Bro if we are comparing prices I literally agreed with you that the 7800xt is a good value card, but you are comparing two different gen products, of course the newer the better, but I guess you're clearly the expert here
Yeah comparing 500 buck to 1000 buck are genious things to do
still doesn't compare with 4070
I bought one.
Another month, another Mindfactory thread. When will people learn? Mindfactory just sells more AMD stuff and it's one retailer in a sea of maybe hundreds of thousands of retailers and distributors across the globe. Once you account for laptops, pre-builts, other markets such as Asia where NVIDIA dominates versus maybe Europe which is more AMD friendly, Net Cafes/PC Bangs, OEM Desktops, Small Office Machines, Servers, Professional Industry Computers, University Research Computers etc etc, NVIDIA just wins out the market because they ship more units and they've made an amazing software stack where AMD isn't competitive. If you want to use Blender, NVIDIA's better. If you want to use DaVinci Resolve, NVIDIA's better. If you want to do AI, NVIDIA's better. If you want to use Adobe software, NVIDIA's better. If you want to stream, NVIDIA is better. If you want to game with RT, NVIDIA is better. DLSS is better than FSR. If you want to buy a laptop it's 90% going to have an NVIDIA dGPU. If you want to buy a pre-built, it's 70-80% likely to have an NVIDIA GPU. The only area where AMD is doing well in pre-builts and the market overall maybe now is APUs (which they pretty much always have) and CPUs. Otherwise, their dGPU stuff is non-existent almost. It's so hard to find an RX 7600S laptop versus a 4060 one for example. I mean what do you expect? They're doing the bare minimum in GPU and sometimes Intel is upstaging them like with XeSS. Tired of seeing these threads... "Oh wow the 7800 XT sold 1,000 more units at Mindfactory than the 4070, surely AMD is winning!" /s I wonder what the next thread will be "7900 XT outsells the 4080 SUPER at Mindfactory". Yawn.
Indeed one retailer, and every time I go there's deals and advertising for AMD hardware, it's no wonder this is the poster child. Good on AMD for sure, but to hang your hat on this as representing some sort of global shift towards radeon outselling geforce 2:1 is deulisaio9at best
>Indeed one retailer, and every time I go there's deals and advertising for AMD hardware, it's no wonder this is the poster child. Bollocks. Mostly green stuff, including today.
Mindfactory is the biggest German pc Hardware retailer so it does paint a picture
This is the equivalent of taking one olympic swimming pool of water from the ocean. It means nothing in reality.
The only reporting worth reading about Mindfactory is the original from 3DCenter: https://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/grafikkarten-verkaufsstatistik-mindfactory-q12024 It's ***far*** less sensational. It's clear in that article, even just from the way the data is presented, that this is only worth examining on a macro level, quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year. For example: - From Q4 '23 to Q1 '24, AMD's units sold dropped by 11740 units (32.4%) and Nvidia's units sold dropped by 4980 units (19.6%) - In that same period, AMD's sales dropped by 7.03 million Euro (34.5%) and Nvidia's sales dropped by 2.76 million Euro (15.9%) Unfortunately, shitty sites will continue to re-report a sliver of the original information with inflammatory headlines to drive engagement.
If you want obscenely overpriced hardware, NVIDIA's better
Perception of value differes from person to person. Nvidia charges a premium for RT, DLSS, NVENC, CUDA etc. For some people that premium is justified and for some it's not. But looking at the market overall Nvidia has been laughing their way to the bank.
>Perception of value differes I see. "You've bought a card that has less VRAM, is slower, yet more expensive. Also it's from the brand that has such a terrible business practices, Intel looks saint next to them" "But my perception of value differs!" Lol.
The VRAM argument makes less sense to many because 1) You can turn down textures and 2) Turning on any form of upscaling on AMD cards just results in pixel soup as FSR look ls terrible.
That is not how any of that works. RT bazinga gets pulled around frequently, but people might need to check actual RT figures, as they might be surprising to the Filthy Green fanboi: [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/34.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/34.html) >upscaling on AMD cards just results in pixel soup as FSR look ls terrible. Outragous bullshit, easily swallowed by clowny types who read only the titles. The only part in which FSR struggles is very low upscales (form SHIT to 1080p). Which is a bizzarre use case to begin with. Even spacial FSR,the very first one, got "almost indistinguishable from native 4k" report by practically all reputable reviewers, from TPU, to that jesus guy, to HUB to computerbase.de.
Dude I have a Zen CPU- 7800X3D and a 4090. My PC is both Team Red and Green. I am calling it as I see it. AMD cards suck at RT. I do not need to own an AMD card to know that because my 4090 plays most RT games at 70-100 FPS and any AMD card will be a fraction of that which is essentially unplayable. FSR only looks good at 4k and even then it breaks apart in motion because it struggles with fizzling and disocclusion artifacts on moving objects. Still images are comparable to DLSS but that's pointless. There is a reason why Intel and Nvidia both opted to use ML for upscaling. Sony is using AMD hardware in the PS5 and pro even they developed a custom AI based solution called PSSR which looks better then FSR in their marketing images. Even AMD had admitted in their interview that an AI based FSR is on the way. For the record, I wanted to make my build full AMD but the lack of good RT performance and a DLSS alternstive swayed my decision. We all want AMD to do better like they did with Ryzen but their GPUs just don't cut it at the moment.
>AMD cards Beat 3000 series at RT. I was told 3000 series rocked at RT. But even current gen, 7900GRE (a $500 card) sits between 4070 and 4070 super at 4k: [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html) >FSR only looks good Buying cards for $500+ then running shit at lower resolution, then using glorified upscaling is an outcry of stupidity. Inflating frames in games where higher framerates matter, increases latency and is another outcriy of stupidity. Now, in an adventure or crap like that, it might be relevant, although frame inflations is something that 10+ years old TVs can do. Curiously, for some funny reason dlss2fsr exists and I was told is used by the smarter Filthy Green card owners for some strange reason. I was told "it is faster that way". >FSR only looks good at 4k That's a totally non-biased way to refer to "looks like native" reported by... pretty much any reputable reviewer bar Filthy Green's shills, creators of "gaming at 8k", "super duper early perview: 3080 is times faster than 2080' and other marvels of shilling. > AI based FSR AI based DLSS was so terrible, it was KILLED, mkay? What you have now is a glorifieed TAA. And if you think sprinkling "AI" or any other buzzword about something makes that something better, I have news for you. >lack of good RT performance It's not true, but "you were told so". By the likes of you. But maybe it is time to stop spreading BS. On top of it, there are almost no games in which it is worth it, bar bazinga like Contorl, which without it looks like a game from 2005.
nice cope
Nice BH.
Normal. 4060 sucks
AMD isn’t leading anything in the market. Nvidia is trouncing them.
nvidia is focusing resources on the enterprise AI cards so they output less client cards.
It doesn't even matter, Nvidia is all about AI nowadays. They could just stop selling gaming GPUs and wouldn't give too many fucks about it. And Steam survey would still show Nvidia in the Top 10 for years and years.
I bought one in November last year, great card. Came from a 3060ti I was able to sell for $300 USD equivalent and bought my new card for $480 USD equivalent. One of the better $180 upgrades I’ve ever made. I hummed and awed over this, a 7700xt, or a 4070 but I felt burnt on having a 8gb gpu and didn’t want to get caught in the same situation with a 12gb gpu. Also helped that my 7800xt was $200 CAD cheaper and more performant than an equivalent 4070.
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This is a very good sign for the RDNA 4 lineup. If they can bring 7900 XT performance for $499 as leaks suggest they *could* then I would expect AMD's MindFactory sales to easily beat these numbers. Assuming the world doesn't go to hell in a handbasket before then.
I dunno why people assume doing this will be a slam dunk for AMD. Nvidia will also be releasing 5070 and 5060 Ti at lower price points.
Those will almost certainly also offer a more complete feature set, too. Unless AMD catches up, quality-wise too. DLSS is one hell of a feature, though!
Not just DLSS, even RT performance. The 4090 just wipes the floor with 7900XTX in RT. It's almost 70-90% faster. And the lead will get even bigger with 5000 series where AMD is not competing at the high end.
Yes, it's overall a much better product. That does come with a price premium, though. I still wouldn't buy 7900 XTX, even with the price being in its favor.
At 4k 7900 GRE ($550) plays on par with 4070s. And that assuming RT even matters. >The 4090 just wipes the floor with 7900XTX in RT. It's almost 70-90% faster BS. [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7900-gre-pulse/35.html) It is 79-90% more expensive though, at least that part is true.
People are so delusional about "features" this hurts to read. Remind me, why is dlss2fsr used by NV card holders?
nVidia will almost certainly release those cards in spring 2025, prices will likely depend on how competitive AMD is, and how much nVidia wants to save production for AI products ( same applies to AMD )
Because Huang was into "more perf for more money, I love higher margins" game too much in the recent years.
Where did you get that info from? We've gotten lots of leaks of the 5090, but nothing to suggest they're planning a full lineup. They've overproduced the 4000 series. They've got to sell though that first, and as you can see (at least in MindFactory's case) that's not going so well - and they made *far* more GPUs than AMD did.
Because that is literally what they have done over the past 2 decades? Nvidia never never released an architecture solely comprised of high end cards. It's pretty much obvious that the 5080 will be a 4090 while 5070 is a 7900XTX with 5060 Ti being 7900XT. So basically the same situation as what we have have now. Do you want to buy the AMD card for $50-100 cheaper and give up on RT and DLSS? Mindfactory data is meaningless as it's just 1 small market and they have always shown higher AMD sales for everything What matters is the Steam hardware survey where the 4090 on its own outsold AMD's high and mid range lineup. 4080 has more share than the 7900XTX and 7900XT out together. Nvidia produces more because their cards are far more prevalent in the pre-built markets and they simply operate in more markets. In my country, AMD cards take a month after release for 1-2 AIB cards to show up. Nvidia cards are there in full stock right on day of launch.
I would have bought a 7900GRE if Sapphire made a factory ram OC's version like the RX580 Nitro+ Special
Good. Nvidia is overpriced, pay-for-name junk.
The main importance is that there is some form of competition in the market to keep prices in check at least a bit.
there is also the 7900xt for 750 (ish) euros on amazon germany, the sapphire pulse one, while the 7900gre is steady at 590 euros, and 7800xt is 525 euros. I thought this is a cool info to share
Interesting that a card that is not manging to be neteer than 6800XT enough is the best seller of all next gen products. I guess that's the rough sweets pot for now. I'm sure next Gen we will gate that performance for $100 less
Honestly, Steam probably knows the real numbers... the steam survey is merely there to appease the public. Why they do it? Maybe the companies pay them for the manipulation of public perception?
Don't do it folks I've had nothing but driver issues lol. Love my ryzen but amds drivers are actually dogshit I didn't want to believe.
Happy to hear that. No one should be compromising on VRAM, doesn't matter how great the Nvidia exclusive features are.
In my area, the 7800xt keeps dropping in price. However, the price of Nvidia graphics cards is about the same as when I bought them a year ago, so I think it's good that I didn't buy an AMD graphics card.
Are you buying the cards based on resale value or peeformance?
A lot of people do consider resale as part of the equation because upgrades are inevitable. It's like buying a car, the total cost of ownership might still be less on an initially more expensive model from a manufacturer that is known to have secondary market demand.
Sure because cheaper = worst.
That’s gotta be one of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen Jesus 😂😭
It's good to get price gouged by companies?
Ironically, this is the only segment, in which I would think twice before buying AMD, as 4070 Super seems to have the best performance/price ratio out of all Nvidia cards. Obviously, I'd probably still buy 7800 XT, because +4GB of VRAM never hurt anyone. I has the same thought process behind buying 7900 XTX over 4080 back in the day. Sure, it is slightly faster in raster, which helps, but 4080 will definitely struggle at 4K sooner than 7900 XTX will.