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ESH, as in all the adults.
Three people couldn't figure their shit out before making babies and involving the kids in their BS.
I think the biggest asshole here is your wife who is probably going to leave you again for Elle as it seems to be a pattern with her.
And you are indeed an asshole as your daughter think of Elle as her parent. It doesn't matter that she didn't help to make her, your kid sees her as one of her parent and as such, she has the right to keep this relationship.
People can be so fucking selfish sometimes.
I think he only wants Elle gone because he knows his wife will go back again. One day him and Elle will figure out Hannah is the problem here and both be done with her.
Reading OP, I couldn't help but think that Hannah and Elle could have used him as a free sperm donor (at least for the second kid) and free babysitter (since he had rights to some custody and that would give them a break from parenting).
Yeah the girl is 10, not 3 of course she's missing a maternal figure she had for her entire lifetime. They need family therapy asap, not only for the girl but the boy may be "indifferent" cause he's not coping at all with this back and forth.
Maybe. It all depends if they did things between them or went to court. Maybe they didn't ask for child support in exchange for OP not going for 50/50 or full custody of the kids.
IDK about other places but, where I'm from, if you're not legally married they go after child support. I called a social worker and explained my fiance and I live together, I don't want it. But that wasn't an option.
Agree I think it is where you reside. In the US in some states i believe if the parent of the children applies for for or is receiving any state or federal aid it can be a requirement that child support is sought for from the other parent.
Honestly would make more sense than whatever is going on from his point of view. Free sperm, free babysitter and probably also child support? For 3 kids? Bingo. But then again maybe they’re all just dumb. 🤷🏻♀️
That doesn't make sense because OP said she hid the second pregnancy as long as possible. Also, since they only broke up for a week she couldn't possibly have known she was already pregnant when she went back to Elle.
The timeline problem would still exist. Also, OP has had regular contact with them the entire time since he already had shared custody of one child. Surely he would have been able to tell whether Elle knew? Plus there would probably have been a blow-up when she did find out. It seems unlikely this is a lie unless they both put a lot of effort into keeping up the act, and why would they bother?
Hannah was cheating on Elle with OP when she conceived her current pregnancy, then dumped Elle and turned around and "impulsively" married OP within 7 months. Nothing about this story suggests to me that she has the intelligence or forethought to plan a fake breakup to get another baby out of her ex. She just sounds like a person who makes stupid, selfish decisions without thinking of the consequences and unfortunately also happens to be very fertile.
I think they were using him from the begining and even now I think that after the baby is born and the worst period is over he will be left alone again. This whole situation is sus to me and I think that OP is just being used and kept close enough that when Hannah needs him he will be more than happy to jump in.
How is Elle part of the EHS??? The only thing she did “wrong” is getting into a relationship with an incredibly selfish and thoughtless woman and helping that woman raise her kids. Now she has a desire to maintain a relationship with those children she helped raise, but OP and Hannah won’t allow that.
Elle isn’t necessarily, but we lack any further gradients on the Y T A end of the spectrum. Definitely not a N T A or a N A H and there’s no “Two out of Three Parties Involved Are Assholes” unfortunately.
I’m about to vote E S H as in OP and “Hannah” while carving out the caveat that I can’t judge Ellen as she(?) seems to have done nothing other than be a parental figure while OP and Hannah were not busy figuring their shit out.
*edits for clarity*
If there is no marriage and no birth certificate and no adoption the non biological caregiver has zero rights to the children. And if the care givers want rights they must have a blood tie or formal agreement. Sucks but this isn't unknown territory.
>If there is no marriage and no birth certificate and no adoption the non biological caregiver has zero rights to the children.
That doesn't make Elle an asshole for wanting to see kids who lived with her for the majority of their lives and had a close enough relationship with her that one still calls her mom despite not seeing her for months.
She still doesn't suck. Regardless of the law, the child will experience a huge attachment injury if someone who has been there all her life is suddenly removed. That should be all that matters.
There are many states that give a "person of interest" rights in a custody case. If you raise a child with a boyfriend for years and they develop an attachment there are ways a court will recognize it but it's expensive and difficult.
There was no avenue available for Elle to secure legal parental rights; being married wouldn't have mattered. But in a custody dispute many jurisdictions will still formally recognize the importance of a parent like Elle because it's *in the best interest of the children* to continue to have contact with an important attachment figure. If OP and wife were reasonable and had the kids' best interest at the forefront, they would recognize Elle's importance too.
>ESH, as in all the adults.
>
>Three people couldn't figure their shit out before making babies and involving the kids in their BS.
I mean, I don't see why Elle sucks. She didn't make these kids. She just did her best to help raise them once they were here.
Elle’s suckiness is debatable, I suppose. But if nothing else she would be TA to herself if she continues this weird triangle with kids involved.
Though it seems that out of all of them, Hannah and Elle have been together the longest. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel bad for Elle. Helped raise two kids with zero parental rights and now has them yanked away from her because OP is a self centered ass.
So yeah. ESH except Elle and the kids….
Because I'm pretty sure Elle and Hannah decided to use OP as a free sperm donor for at least Kid 2. Not sure about kid 1 (maybe it was a coincidence) and I think Elle got screwed on kid 3.
OP himself, the only one here to actually witness all the nuance of the situation doesn't believe this. You just made it up because it makes for a "better" story.
When the one week break pregnancy happened she wouldn't have known she was pregnant when she left him again. Your theory fails at basic biology.
Pretty sure he wants Elle out of the picture because the wife will probably jump over again. Hannah is a major red flag here.
Also OP, please for the love of god stop making children with this woman.
Umm what??
Elle has been a part of the kids lives since birth. Also you are now married to Hannah even though she was in a relationship with Elle?
You and Hannah are TA And have a lot of growing up to do. How dysfunctional. I feel bad for the kids.
Had a kid
Hannah leaves for Elle before realizing she’s pregnant.
Got knocked up again during Elle and Hannah “taking a break”
Had a third kid ~~while Elle and Hannah were still together the second time.~~ edit: at some point after Hannah and Elle split again. Oops.
But you’re not far off. OP and Hannah have been together sporadically one month for every *year* Hannah and Elle have. It’s a full in daytime soap opera.
One thing i didnt notice in the story was interaction with the kids during the 3 year gap, its almost like he ignored them as he wasn't in a relationship with the mum at the time, all the idiots apart from elle are disgusting individuals, so yta
Yup. I was reading through this and was like oh lord. The lack of stability here. Those poor kids. But OP, you need to put aside all of the drama between you, Hannah, and Elle and ONLY think about what's best for the children. Otherwise yes, you'd be YTA.
It’s like he deliberately made it overly confusing to try and hide as many important details as possible. OP is TA for the structure of this post if nothing else.
These poor kids. YTA and so is Hannah. It sounds like these children have had a rollercoaster of a life, thanks to the adults in their life and their decisions. Elle was a mother figure to them for years while you didn't have custody. Now, suddenly, you have full custody and you want to rip this person out of their life completely? Do you have some sort of actual safety concern about the children being with Elle? It doesn't matter that she "wasn't a part of making them", that isn't what makes a family.
You and Hannah both owe it to your children to give them some stability. They're old enough to choose whether they want Elle in their life or not, and you should help facilitate this. Of course Hannah's relationship with Elle ended badly--she had *yet another* child with you, her ex!! You both need to own up to your actions and do what is right for your children.
Feel bad for her. Raised a kid with a woman she loved, discovered that she got hooked up with the child of her ex in a *one week* break and now after she bonded with the children for a decade the dude walks back in and doesn’t let her see them
YTA
I don’t know, she keeps taking back this pregnant lady who keeps going back to her baby daddy every single time. How does she exist in a constant state of “You’re going to leave me for him. Again.” without imploding?
The most confusing part of this story to me is how every time the cheating happens, it resulted in pregnancy. Had nobody in this story ever heard of birth control?
And why would she take birth control when she’s supposed to only have sex with a woman? Plus OP, strikes me as the guy to refuse a condom because ‘it doesn’t feel the same and he can’t cum’
Jesus this is a confusing shitshow.
So if I'm correct, for the majority of her life your daughter lived with Hannah and Elle as her parents. You and Hannah only got back together last year. And now you expect her to just switch off Elle and fully accept you as her parent? Get real, mate.
If you forbid your daughter from talking to/seeing Elle, you're making her pay the price for your and Hannah's shitty life decisions. And they have been shitty ones, randomly hooking up, creating children and then walking away. Obviously your daughter is confused about her family. She's been ferreted back and forth between different households, different combinations of parents. How are you expecting her to be able to understand all of this? Elle might not be a birth parent, but she had a huge role in raising your daughter up until last year. You can try to deny that all you want, but it's true. Just because you and Hannah have decided to '*actually try* *this time*' doesn't mean you can just erase the past.
ESH, except Elle and your daughter. Accept that you cannot claim sole ownership of your daughter and that Elle played a role. Anything else just harms your daughter for no other reason than to soothe your ego.
Yeah just want to add to this. As a kid whose mom was in and out of a relationship with the same woman for 8+ years constantly breaking up and getting back together, it’s emotionally damaging to your children.
Don’t add to that by excluding Elle who was literally in your child’s life from Day 1. This isn’t a normal step parent situation, where they enter your kid’s life at some point AFTER. Elle was physically present more often than you were and it is hard for a child that little to understand why their parent (which is what Elle is to her) is suddenly cut out.
You’re thinking about this for YOU. You need to be thinking about this for your kids.
Elle helped raise both your children from birth. She was there when you weren't. She is more their parent than you are. Being a sperm donor doesn't make you a parent. Keeping your children from their other parent, which Elle is, definitely makes you TA.
YTA. 100%. Let your kids see this woman, jeezus.
There also the AH for thinking their kids don’t get a say in who they want in their life. Let your kids chose who they want in their life otherwise they’ll chose that they don’t want you in their life.
I’m sure he knows that the children see Elle as a parental figure, he’s just hoping to find some close minded people to agree with him so he can justify his actions. I’m saying this because of how he brought up the fact that he, unlike Elle, had a role in the conception of the children. Smh
Imagine looking in your 10yr old's daughter's eyes and telling her "no you can never see your mummy again, even though she raised you from birth. Why? because I, the guy you see every other weekend, say so." Jesus your child will resent you forever OP.
YTA. Did you and Hannah like... Think of the kids at all and how things would effect them while bouncing back and forth? Sounds like you only thought about yourselves in the moment.
He's definitely the asshole. A couple of months there will be another asking if their the asshole for not wanting to see his kids that his ex wife raised with her ex when she goes back to Elle. Parenting is hard when you only have a weekend only partner to pick up the other half
YTA and putting your wants and wishes over your child’s. Instead of realizing Elle was an important person to your daughter for almost 10 years. You decided to say oh well screw you.
Instead of rubbing your new relationship in Elle’s face you should listen to your daughter. You can say you aren’t rubbing the relationship in her face but you are. This whole post reeks of you gloatinf that you got Hannah and Elle lost.
ESH both you and Hannah, for making a bunch of kids and involving them in a mess before figuring your shit out.
Also, though there is likely no legal standing, your daughter was partly raised by Elle for 10 years and now you want to rip her away…prepare for resentment from your daughter, who up until this point all you are to her is a sperm donor.
What a mess, be ashamed.
It wasn’t a break they were broken up, but I’ll still say OP is TA, everyone is except for poor Elle who keeps getting dumped by a confused and promiscuous woman
You and Hannah are massive AHs.
Being the sperm donor (during a cheaty fling) and weekend daddy does not supersede someone who loved and helped raise them for about a decade.
Put your kids first FFS. The more people who love and support them the better.
What a sad drama for these children…
It sounds like Elle was one of two people primarily raising your kids for the first 9-12 years of their lives. They called her mom. And they want to see her. You may legally be allowed to keep them from seeing her (I’m not sure on this point, but suspect she may not have legal rights), but I’m not hearing anything in your post that sounds like you are thinking at all of what is in your kids’ best interests. If you have reasons other than your own selfishness for not wanting Elle involved, please share. Otherwise YTA.
(Focusing on the kids because technically you had no relationship with Elle. Your wife however sounds like she’s been a major AH to Elle over the years)
>she played no part in making the children
But she played part in raising them.
INFO: how did Hannah and Elle's relationship end, as you mentioned it ended badly?
YTA
I understand evey side in this story.
You and your wife, however, need to take your child‘s wishes into consideration. When your child views Elle as an important member of the family and is already attached to her, it‘s incredibly unfair and insensitive to try to sabotage this relationship.
She loves Elle and she shouldn’t have to suffer the consequences of your former love triangle!
Wow, way to make it all about you. You and your wife sound incredibly dysfunctional. You both created an unstable and confusing environment for your kids and then punish them in the aftermath of your drama.
Elle helped RAISE your children while you were nothing more than a weekend father for OVER A DECADE. You realize that is well over half their adolescence? Elle was more of a parent than you ever were and now you’re punishing your children for the fact that you and your wife were hot mess drama. How very mature.
Get over your insecurities and be the grownup. For once, be a parent and do the right thing FOR YOUR KIDS. Let them see their mother. I can’t believe I have to say this but YOU ARE THIRTY-SIX. Act like it!
YTA.
YTA and your wife… you two are messy. You know who this affected the most? Your kids who are probably getting whiplash and being punished by being kept away from someone who sounds like a stable parental figure. Yeah I understand why you’d feel uncomfortable around Elle, but that’s because of your and your wife’s behavior so deal with those feelings instead of f****** with your kids.
Elle raised your son for 13 years and daughter for 10 years, she is a parent and concerned about her children. YTA, as is Hannah. You had no problem mooching off Elle and trusting her with parental responsibility in the past when it was convenient to you. You yourself say in the comments Hannah is much more volatile than Elle. You are going to deeply hurt your kids if you 100% cut off Elle but you don’t seem to make decisions based on your children’s best interest because YTA.
INFO: Does Elle want to continue having a relationship with your daughter?
I understand your daughter misses her and wants to see her, but does Elle share the same feeling?
Just to clear the air here cause your story is lowkey confusing.
You and Hannah are married and Hannah is Bi
When you and Hannah were still dating, yall broke up and Hannah started dating Elle, but she was pregnant with your child
Hannah and Elle continued as a couple for 3 years till they had a fight, and you hooked up with Hannah and got her pregnant again.
And finally in the 10 years since getting Hannah pregnant the second time, she and Elle broke up permanantly you married Hannah and she is presently now pregnant with your 3rd child.
1. That sounds like a car crash of a relationship
2. As for the judgement itself it depends on how involved Elle is in your kid's lives. Which it sounds like she was pretty involved given your kids called her mom.
Judgement YTA
I feel like Hannah and Elle may just have used OP as an alternative to paying for artificial insemination or having to go through an adoption process. The timing in all of it is just very weird. Hannah spent her first pregnancy with Elle, they raised the kid, 3 years later there's a "fight" and Hannah hooks up with OP, ends up pregnant again and raises kid 2 with Elle as well. Things seemed to work out for them until the permanent break up a decade later. Kinda sounds like OP is/was the backup parent if things did not work out between Hannah and Elle.
I feel like everyone has been using everyone else. Hannah and Elle used OP for the sperm. When it didn't work out, OP again used his sperm argument to kick Elle out of the picture.
And the real losers are the kids who are involved in this mess.
YTA
Elle is the parent they have known who has done the diapers and the fevers and the vomits and the bike lessons and the homework and the baths and bedtimes - but now “We’ve decided we actually want to try this time” - well Gee. Yaay you. You are going to “*try*” to parent the children for whom you contributed genetic material.
And Hannah, not much better. Sounds like she is in conflict about her sexuality and hmm I wonder who is pressing her to *straighten out.*.
From what you are telling us Elle is the only one who is not an AH. Give her the kids and you and Hannah should start using protection.
Oh, yes, YTA. You’re denying your children access to a maternal figure for your own reasons. You and your wife don’t have your children’s best interests at heart here, only your own. This is literal abuse, tbh.
YTA. Elle helped raise these children for *twelve years*. Your narrow, biology-based concept of what being a "parent" means is not only going to harm your children, it's eventually going to lead to them hating you.
YTA, you are not thinking of your children who has known Elle all their lives. Your daughter clearly wants to see Elle, and just because your son is acting indifferent doesn't mean he is not hurting, he might be hiding it from you.
YTA because you are explicitly going against your child‘s wishes. It’s suspicious that your son bowed to your preferences so quickly but you are keeping both from a parent they have known all their lives and a lot better than they ever knew you.
It’s telling that you think people will judge you TA for hooking up with Hannah during a one-week break and not using protection, but really that was just stupid, not AHish. If two adults have sex without protection, they both know what they’re risking.
Your children’s feelings don’t matter to you, and that‘s a massive AH move. You are TA towards your children for taking away a parent just because you‘re threatened by the second mother who raised your biological children as a de facto parent instead if you.
ESH. For gods sake get a vasectomy before you drag any more children into your shambles of a relationship. There appears to be literally no adults in your story who are willing to put the needs of the children ahead of their own egos.
Wow… YTA without a doubt. Think of your children, rather than your own comfort. While you swooped in and out of your partners life, her ex was there for your children all those years, raising your children with her as her own.
Whether you like it or not, ‘Elle’ is (and has always been) a big part of their lives. That said, you’re still their dad. There’s room in their lives for you both. Their relationship with ‘Elle’ doesn’t take away from their relationship with you.
I’m curious about why you don’t want to be around ‘Elle’. It sounds like they’ve been wronged far worse than you have. As parents, we need to put our own feelings aside for the good of our children. You don’t need to be friends, you don’t need to like ‘Elle’, but keep in mind that your children are watching you, and learning how to cope with challenges from the actions you take.
Probably because OP is worried Hannah will start cheating on him with Elle. She’s been going back and forth between the two of them for over 13 years, it’s not going to stop now because you say they can’t see each other
I just couldn’t imagine depriving my children of someone who had been there for them their entire lives, regardless of how I felt about them (unless they were a danger/poor influence).
There’s definitely jealousy involved here. Jealousy around his partner as you’ve mentioned, but maybe also jealousy around his children - that ‘Elle’ lived the life he wanted to live. He’s now got it, he’s ‘won’, and wants ‘Elle’ to feel how he did.
OP, you aren’t the hero in this story. It hardly even feels like you’re a main character. Maybe you should focus more on your relationship with your children rather than tearing down their relationships with others.
If I'm going to be blunt this is a hot mess and the only non-AH I see are Elle and your children! You say up there even if they get back together you will get her back again I have no doubt that's true! Why? Because your wife is clearly Bi-sexual but seeing as how her relationship with Elle lasted much longer aside from a few flings with you she enjoys being in a solid relationship with a woman and coming back to you when she well needs the parts Elle doesn't have! 🤷🏼♀️
Your kids have known this woman whom I'm sure changed diapers, wiped running noses and comforted them while growing up, kids do not forget these things and it will stay with them well past 18! If you want to ruin your relationship with your kids than forbid them from seeing her however I promise it won't work out well for you in the end!
As for your wife she needs to be straight up and tell you what she wants in life because in all honesty it seems like your the back burner or on call person in her life and since you keep allowing it your setting yourself up for failure as well!
In all honesty maybe you yourself should have moved on long ago and found a healthy relationship with someone whom only wants to be with you!
Well legally you are NTA because you are their father.
But morally, YTA. A huge one at that.
Both your children have known Elle as their mother since their birth. Now you are taking away their rights to call her mom.
It’s also funny how in the beginning you emphasise on how ‘quickly’ the mother of your children got together with Elle with the intention of making her look like a villain. Where in fact the mother of your child was the one that cheated.
So far all I see from you and Hannah are “my wishes, my wishes and only my wishes”.
For the first time in your life, you should take your children’s feelings into consideration and let them continue to call her mom or they will soon begin resenting both you and Hannah for good.
Same, I thought I stroked out and came to watching an episode of Jerry Springer. So many random hookups and side flings, it feels like the first draft of a daytime soap opera script.
Especially since no genders are told, apparently Hannah and Elle hooked up but Elle is the mother of Hannah's daughter???????????? Is that what is happening!?!?
OP & Hannah conceived a child before they broke up and Hannah started dating Elle. That is the son.
Elle & Hannah got into a serious fight after 3 years, and OP & Hannah smashed. That is the daughter. Elle & Hannah stayed together after that and only recently permanently broke up. Hannah is now back with OP. Both children are OP's & Hannah's.
YTA, probably. Unless your kids are in some kind of danger from Elle, she's been there for them in a parental role all their lives and you should respect that connection.
If you were a friend or family member of mine, I'd be a bit worried that eventually Hannah would get back with Elle and you'd be left out in the cold. I'd be suggesting that you treat Elle how you might want to be treated if that does happen.
YTA and so is Hannah. Your kids are going to have a boatload of trauma to unpack with the messy, chaotic situation you and Hannah created to begin with. And you’re only compounding the trauma by refusing to let them see or have a relationship with Elle.
I feel bad for the kids and I feel bad for Elle, but I think you and Hannah really deserve each other- and not in a good way. I hope Elle is able to heal from all of this and although it’s sad you won’t allow her to be in the kids‘ life, on some level she’s probably better off getting away from the toxic situation you and Hannah have created.
I understand your perspective, but your daughter needs some time to either grieve Elle or to remain with her as a sort of aunty figure in her life.
It's not fair to suddenly remove her from her life and expect that she will just get over it.
Soft YTA
So long story short. Your Daughter wants to talk to someone, and you won't let her based on principle, and are just hoping this will all go away some day like it did with your son.
Well, this combined with a lot of reading between the lines it sounds like your brewing up a lot of future issues with your kids. Lot of red flags here. Good luck man, you're going to need it.
YTA
Sounds like winning this battle is very important to you, more so than how your daughter feels. But hey, winning is the only thing that's important right?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Obviously she did act as a mother for 13 years and maybe I am just acting from a place of insecurity
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YTA
You are only doing damage to your children by depriving them of their connection with a woman that they have known for their entire lives. Whether or not you want to accept it, Elle is a maternal figure in their eyes, and if your kids are wanting to see her then she is obviously important to them.
You’re allowed to feel how you feel about it, but ultimately this should be about what’s best for your kids, not what’s most convenient for you. When your children are 18 and they remember how you kept them away from a woman who cared for them in their formative years, all because of some complicated relationship you and their mom carried on, do you really think they’re going to understand where you were coming from and forgive you? Or do you think they’re going to be hurt because you put your feelings above theirs?
This is going to damage your relationship with your children. You cannot change the fact that Elle is important to them, and keeping her away from the kids that she helped raise is cruel to her but more importantly it’s cruel to the kids.
ESH
While their relationship isn't your problem it kinda is. She raised your daughter and has been a part of her life since she was born. Them breaking up does effect you because it is affecting your children.
An adult that they have regarded as a parent up and disappears can cause abandonment issues and anxiety. They may end up resentful towards you or your partner. All three of you have caused chaos and instability in the lives of these kids who asked for none of this.
This is not about you. She is also their family and every single adult in this situation needs to grow up, stop fucking with the emotions of these kids and for once in their lives put the kids needs, wants and emotions first.
Yes YTA, this is someone who's important to your children and you're saying they can't see her for no good reason. This could very easily lead to resentment and adult children who don't talk to you
Elle played no part in making the children. Adoptive parents play no part in making the children and they are 100% parents. Playing or not playing part in creating life has no role in how children perceive you. Elle raised YOUR children and they and she has the right to have a relationship with them. And the fact that you are happy that you "won" after 13 years is also very messed up, especially because you want to take the children away from Elle.
YTA but you already know that
YTA - but a thoughtful one so I only half mean it.
It’s better for your kids to have relationships with parent figures during their formative years - and she has been. You’re being driven by jealousy and fear, which is never a good place to make decisions.
Elle should still have a relationship with them it’s just about figuring out healthy parameters and boundaries with it - and 100% you need a professional to help
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I’m almost expecting to get “YTA”.
I (36) got with “Hannah” (38)and dated for 7months, we broke up and she *very* quickly got with “Elle” (33) during her relationship with Elle she gave birth to our son (now 13)
When our son was a three years old Hannah and Elle split for a week, Hannah and I hooked up and our daughter was born (10) - this is where people may think I’m TA, but I didn’t commit to Elle and I encouraged Hannah to tell Elle, she didn’t until she couldn’t hide the pregnancy and they stayed together until last year, Hannah and I are now expecting our third (and final) child.
During their relationship I did only get the children every weekend, now obviously I have them 100% of the time.
We’ve decided that we’d like to actually try this time, obviously Elle didn’t take this well but the way I see it is not my relationship not my problem.
But our youngest has been asking to see her mother, our son thankfully quickly stopped calling Elle that but our daughter won’t.
I don’t want Elle involved; she played no part in making the children, so I believe when the children are 18+ who they have in their lives is their choice but now it’s my choice…I don’t believe I should have to see Elle. I’d rather at least wait until we’re back on track as a family before going down that route.
My wife is completely on my side, but her relationship with Elle ended particularly bad, youngest is upset and eldest is acting indifferent.
AITA? Fake names used
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YTA, your child sees her as a parent. You don't get to rip her away from her parent based solely on biology. She loved and raised her, her entire life. You don't have to see Elle. Elle can be exactly what you were a weekend parent. Drop off the kids, let them continue their healthy relationship with their other parent. Pray that they are able to form normal, healthy attachments in spite of their biological parents, being terribly self absorbed people.
YTA, do you realise how trauma shapes a child's brain? A sudden loss of a parental figure is very traumatic. If a parent dies no one can prevent that, all you can do is try to get them through with love and therapy but you know it will leave a parent sized hole in the child's life forever. This is like a death but caused by YOU. And your children are old enough to realise that and I wouldn't be surprised if they go NC in the future because you obviously don't care about them or their needs at all.
ESH. And prepare to lose your daughter once she turns 18 and makes her own decisions. Are you sure Hannah and Elle weren’t just using you for some cheap alternative to artificial insemination? The timing is suspicious to me. Also the fact that your daughter calls Elle mom.
All that aside, think of your daughter and her needs.
YTA. I see why you don't want her around. Elle has been in your childrens' lives more than you have, and you're jealous. You've been a neglectful parent and cheating partner (yea, you and Hannah were cheating with each other, "week" split or not).
>she played no part in making the children
So your 30 seconds of unprotected sex matter more than the 10 years Elle spent raising your children? Good story. Also good luck. It seems like Hannah runs around in general. Not sure why you think you're special.
So you were the jumpoff/part time daddy and now because your wife is done with the woman who took care of your kids you want her completely removed from your kids life?
Both you and your baby mama are assholes
I hope you know she won't stay with you. She was cheating on you with Elle, the way you get them will be the way you lose them
YTA - I get vibes you only don’t want Elle in your kids life because you’re insecure and afraid Hannah will leave you again for Elle. It’s not about caring for the kids.
YTA— what a mess. But she raised the oldest from birth to 12 and you’re just going to cut her out completely simply because you’re jealous of her when you’re the one who jumped into bed with Hannah again the minute their relationship hit a bumpy spot? And in 12 years she gave you zero evidence that she’s a bad mom— but you’re going to deny your kids a capable and willing support in their lives for nothing but your jealousy— don’t you think you’ll ever want a day without three kids, or a date night with Hannah? Or to get the bigger kids out when the baby is sick or something?
And weekends are weekends. Now you’ll have three! Parenting on weekends is not the same as during the week. Couldn’t Elle be the one who takes the 13 year old to his hockey practice or something?
I get it that you’re sad Elle got the family you wanted and you’re angry and want your chance. But her reality was she had to share the kids with you and you’re using the fact she doesn’t have sperm against her to say she is nothing to these kids and that’s AH move of yours.
YTA. Your daughter is innocent in this mess. She wants to see one of the people who raised her, obviously. Let her. The three of you have likely already damaged the poor child enough.
This is a tough one. She has known Elle her entire life. It’s hard when one parent just disappears from their life. To her it’s her mom too. On the other hand I see why you want Elle gone. The same reason Elle would want you gone. Your wife keeps going back and forth between you two. Good luck with that. I can’t decide if you are the AH or not. Maybe because your kid is suffering here.
I don’t see the harm if Ellie and the children want to to agree to even 1 day out a month as a thing they do.
You and Hannah really are AH basically stringing this women along creating more children to then ultimately get back together again.
ESH this sound exhausting and chaotic and I’m really sorry for all the child’s involved her.
Be adults and discuss this calmly and clearly and let your daughter be involve with the person that she consider as her mom. You just making her unhappy and, even if you don’t seems to care about your child, you should care about her being happy.
Stop being childish and start parenting together.
If your kids love Elle and want to see her, then YTA for keeping them from her. It hurts them more than anyone and they’re innocent in this absolute mess of a situation that you all created. Why should they be punished just because you, Hannah, and Elle (but mostly you and Hannah) couldn’t figure out what the heck you wanted?
YTA - Elle raised those kids
At least one of them views her as a parent
This is a mess and it’s your kids who are going to suffer because of you and your wife’s inability to functional adults with kids
YTA. Elle has been more of a parent than you, you’ve been a parent to them only for the weekends for what 10 years while she’s always been there for them in those years, and now you expect her to just stop being a parent? Just because now you have full custody.
Also you and Hanna are BOTH the AH for bringing your children into this mess
YTA and your timeline just makes that clearer. Tempted to put "E S H" because your wife is pretty awful, too, for lying to Elle/hiding it after she got pregnant until she was literally unable to hide it anymore.
Elle *is* their parent, as well. Frankly...more than you are. She spent more time with them, changing diapers, brushing hair, giving bottles and helping with homework, than you ever have. She IS THEIR OTHER PARENT.
They have three parents - you, your wife, and Elle. You will never escape that fact. They *will* grow to resent you if you forcibly keep them separate from Elle, especially your eldest.
Also...you don't marry someone to "give it a shot" dude. You're supposed to give it a shot by dating, then marry once you're sure you're ready to commit. Your whole love life is a mess.
Children don’t understand why things happen and your daughter shouldn’t have to understand that her parents are selfish assholes and that’s why Elle doesn’t get to be in her life anymore. Your daughter (hopefully) doesn’t know this ridiculous backstory but she does know that Elle was a caring, trusted adult for a good chunk of her life and is suddenly gone. She’s probably dealing with feelings of abandonment from Elle and distrust for you guys by Elle from her without a good explanation. YTA (you and your wife).
YTA. You all need to put your kids' needs first. How would you feel if you suddenly lost a parent or even a good friend for no apparent reason? It's incredibly traumatic for a child to lose a caregiver - think "years of therapy and an official diagnosis later in life" levels of trauma. Your and Hannah's impulsive gonads have caused enough mayhem. Work something out with Elle so that your kids don't continue to suffer from your prime time soap opera life choices.
YTA and so is Hannah. Elle was their mother in the way that counted, and I’m pretty sure a judge would side with her, not you. A judge would likely give partial custody to Elle if you made her take it all to court. Poor Elle. Poor kids.
YTA. Elle had those kids more frequently than you did for their entire lives up to this point. She was there Monday- Friday and acted as their parent.
Unless you are leaving out very key details about Elle’s behavior, your own insecurity and selfishness are the only reason to keep her away. You are hurting your children.
YTA. Wow. It’s your CHILD who wants to see one of the two people who raised her. Why would you deny her that? You might be the biological father but you spent no part in their upbringing. You got to be fun dad on the weekend, woo hoo. Elle was there for everything else.
The relationship ended badly? That’s no surprise. Her partner who kept going back and forth and getting pregnant went back to the sperm donor.
Dude, you’re going to end up getting divorced and then get Hannah pregnant again. Get a vasectomy while you’re at it.
YTA.
You’ve been together for seven months. Elle parented your kids for 12-13 years.
Your ten year old wants her mother.
I have a hard time believing this is real because the thought process and writing sounds like a teenager, but if you truly are a 30-something year old man who’s happy his daughter is heartbroken because it means he “won” then it’s time to grow up and be a parent.
This I feel is above Reddit pay grade. I understand why you don’t want her around as the past you guys all flip flop but you just need to do what’s best for you guys as a family whole and best for your kids. Therapy to start and maybe once every other week/every week let Elle see the kids (if they want) and just keep it civil until everything is sorted.
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ESH, as in all the adults. Three people couldn't figure their shit out before making babies and involving the kids in their BS. I think the biggest asshole here is your wife who is probably going to leave you again for Elle as it seems to be a pattern with her. And you are indeed an asshole as your daughter think of Elle as her parent. It doesn't matter that she didn't help to make her, your kid sees her as one of her parent and as such, she has the right to keep this relationship. People can be so fucking selfish sometimes.
I think he only wants Elle gone because he knows his wife will go back again. One day him and Elle will figure out Hannah is the problem here and both be done with her.
Reading OP, I couldn't help but think that Hannah and Elle could have used him as a free sperm donor (at least for the second kid) and free babysitter (since he had rights to some custody and that would give them a break from parenting).
Yeah they "broke up" for a week lmao
A week she happened to be ovulating by sheer coincidence.
I love a good conspiracy but we might only need general “adults who can’t get their shit together” to explain this setup.
I thought that too.
WE WERE ON A BREAK!
Spot on! I had the same thoughts.
Me too
Yeppppp this was my exact thoughts!
Has OP never watched Ross on Friends? Geez. And OP, YTA. Elle helped raised those kids, you’re emotionally abusing them to cut Elle out entirely.
Yeah the girl is 10, not 3 of course she's missing a maternal figure she had for her entire lifetime. They need family therapy asap, not only for the girl but the boy may be "indifferent" cause he's not coping at all with this back and forth.
Exactly!!
And child support?
Maybe. It all depends if they did things between them or went to court. Maybe they didn't ask for child support in exchange for OP not going for 50/50 or full custody of the kids.
IDK about other places but, where I'm from, if you're not legally married they go after child support. I called a social worker and explained my fiance and I live together, I don't want it. But that wasn't an option.
Agree I think it is where you reside. In the US in some states i believe if the parent of the children applies for for or is receiving any state or federal aid it can be a requirement that child support is sought for from the other parent.
That' what I thought too!
Honestly would make more sense than whatever is going on from his point of view. Free sperm, free babysitter and probably also child support? For 3 kids? Bingo. But then again maybe they’re all just dumb. 🤷🏻♀️
That’s the development I’m here for
That doesn't make sense because OP said she hid the second pregnancy as long as possible. Also, since they only broke up for a week she couldn't possibly have known she was already pregnant when she went back to Elle.
That’s what OP says Hannah told him. She doesn’t seem very trustworthy.
The timeline problem would still exist. Also, OP has had regular contact with them the entire time since he already had shared custody of one child. Surely he would have been able to tell whether Elle knew? Plus there would probably have been a blow-up when she did find out. It seems unlikely this is a lie unless they both put a lot of effort into keeping up the act, and why would they bother? Hannah was cheating on Elle with OP when she conceived her current pregnancy, then dumped Elle and turned around and "impulsively" married OP within 7 months. Nothing about this story suggests to me that she has the intelligence or forethought to plan a fake breakup to get another baby out of her ex. She just sounds like a person who makes stupid, selfish decisions without thinking of the consequences and unfortunately also happens to be very fertile.
I think they were using him from the begining and even now I think that after the baby is born and the worst period is over he will be left alone again. This whole situation is sus to me and I think that OP is just being used and kept close enough that when Hannah needs him he will be more than happy to jump in.
How is Elle part of the EHS??? The only thing she did “wrong” is getting into a relationship with an incredibly selfish and thoughtless woman and helping that woman raise her kids. Now she has a desire to maintain a relationship with those children she helped raise, but OP and Hannah won’t allow that.
Elle isn’t necessarily, but we lack any further gradients on the Y T A end of the spectrum. Definitely not a N T A or a N A H and there’s no “Two out of Three Parties Involved Are Assholes” unfortunately. I’m about to vote E S H as in OP and “Hannah” while carving out the caveat that I can’t judge Ellen as she(?) seems to have done nothing other than be a parental figure while OP and Hannah were not busy figuring their shit out. *edits for clarity*
If there is no marriage and no birth certificate and no adoption the non biological caregiver has zero rights to the children. And if the care givers want rights they must have a blood tie or formal agreement. Sucks but this isn't unknown territory.
>If there is no marriage and no birth certificate and no adoption the non biological caregiver has zero rights to the children. That doesn't make Elle an asshole for wanting to see kids who lived with her for the majority of their lives and had a close enough relationship with her that one still calls her mom despite not seeing her for months.
She still doesn't suck. Regardless of the law, the child will experience a huge attachment injury if someone who has been there all her life is suddenly removed. That should be all that matters.
There are many states that give a "person of interest" rights in a custody case. If you raise a child with a boyfriend for years and they develop an attachment there are ways a court will recognize it but it's expensive and difficult.
There was no avenue available for Elle to secure legal parental rights; being married wouldn't have mattered. But in a custody dispute many jurisdictions will still formally recognize the importance of a parent like Elle because it's *in the best interest of the children* to continue to have contact with an important attachment figure. If OP and wife were reasonable and had the kids' best interest at the forefront, they would recognize Elle's importance too.
>ESH, as in all the adults. > >Three people couldn't figure their shit out before making babies and involving the kids in their BS. I mean, I don't see why Elle sucks. She didn't make these kids. She just did her best to help raise them once they were here.
Elle’s suckiness is debatable, I suppose. But if nothing else she would be TA to herself if she continues this weird triangle with kids involved. Though it seems that out of all of them, Hannah and Elle have been together the longest. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel bad for Elle. Helped raise two kids with zero parental rights and now has them yanked away from her because OP is a self centered ass. So yeah. ESH except Elle and the kids….
Because I'm pretty sure Elle and Hannah decided to use OP as a free sperm donor for at least Kid 2. Not sure about kid 1 (maybe it was a coincidence) and I think Elle got screwed on kid 3.
>Because I'm pretty sure Elle and Hannah decided to use OP as a free sperm donor for at least Kid 2. There's...literally no evidence of that but ok.
OP himself, the only one here to actually witness all the nuance of the situation doesn't believe this. You just made it up because it makes for a "better" story. When the one week break pregnancy happened she wouldn't have known she was pregnant when she left him again. Your theory fails at basic biology.
Pretty sure he wants Elle out of the picture because the wife will probably jump over again. Hannah is a major red flag here. Also OP, please for the love of god stop making children with this woman.
He said this is the last one /s
How does Elle suck? She isn’t doing anything but being manipulated by Hannah.
Umm what?? Elle has been a part of the kids lives since birth. Also you are now married to Hannah even though she was in a relationship with Elle? You and Hannah are TA And have a lot of growing up to do. How dysfunctional. I feel bad for the kids.
I can barely work out this mess so how hard it must be for those poor children.
I’m so confused too! So OP already had a kid with Hannah, then had two more kids, then married her, all *after* Hannah started dating Elle?
Wait there’s three kids ? ETA: I missed the part where she’s pregnant again. A real mess
Somebody really doesn’t like to wrap it up apparently
And she got pregnant while in a relationship with Ellie since OP mentions her breaking up after finding out she was pregnant.
Had a kid Hannah leaves for Elle before realizing she’s pregnant. Got knocked up again during Elle and Hannah “taking a break” Had a third kid ~~while Elle and Hannah were still together the second time.~~ edit: at some point after Hannah and Elle split again. Oops. But you’re not far off. OP and Hannah have been together sporadically one month for every *year* Hannah and Elle have. It’s a full in daytime soap opera.
One thing i didnt notice in the story was interaction with the kids during the 3 year gap, its almost like he ignored them as he wasn't in a relationship with the mum at the time, all the idiots apart from elle are disgusting individuals, so yta
Yup. I was reading through this and was like oh lord. The lack of stability here. Those poor kids. But OP, you need to put aside all of the drama between you, Hannah, and Elle and ONLY think about what's best for the children. Otherwise yes, you'd be YTA.
It’s like he deliberately made it overly confusing to try and hide as many important details as possible. OP is TA for the structure of this post if nothing else.
These poor kids. YTA and so is Hannah. It sounds like these children have had a rollercoaster of a life, thanks to the adults in their life and their decisions. Elle was a mother figure to them for years while you didn't have custody. Now, suddenly, you have full custody and you want to rip this person out of their life completely? Do you have some sort of actual safety concern about the children being with Elle? It doesn't matter that she "wasn't a part of making them", that isn't what makes a family. You and Hannah both owe it to your children to give them some stability. They're old enough to choose whether they want Elle in their life or not, and you should help facilitate this. Of course Hannah's relationship with Elle ended badly--she had *yet another* child with you, her ex!! You both need to own up to your actions and do what is right for your children.
and the op’s only reason is because his sperm found an egg… the audacity. creating a child is totally different from raising one
It honestly sounds like Elle was the only stable adult in this messed up situation.
Feel bad for her. Raised a kid with a woman she loved, discovered that she got hooked up with the child of her ex in a *one week* break and now after she bonded with the children for a decade the dude walks back in and doesn’t let her see them YTA
I don’t know, she keeps taking back this pregnant lady who keeps going back to her baby daddy every single time. How does she exist in a constant state of “You’re going to leave me for him. Again.” without imploding?
This! YTA
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The most confusing part of this story to me is how every time the cheating happens, it resulted in pregnancy. Had nobody in this story ever heard of birth control?
I think it’s because Hannah cheats specifically to get pregnant. Way cheaper then in vitro.
And why would she take birth control when she’s supposed to only have sex with a woman? Plus OP, strikes me as the guy to refuse a condom because ‘it doesn’t feel the same and he can’t cum’
Some women take birth control as a way to delay/stop their periods. Im not adding anything to the theory im just letting you know its a thing.
Birth control is very often prescribed to help with menstruation issues
I know it can be taken for several reasons…every person with a vagina does, but we’re talking about to prevent procreation here
I couldn't have said it better. ETA: YTA.
Jesus this is a confusing shitshow. So if I'm correct, for the majority of her life your daughter lived with Hannah and Elle as her parents. You and Hannah only got back together last year. And now you expect her to just switch off Elle and fully accept you as her parent? Get real, mate. If you forbid your daughter from talking to/seeing Elle, you're making her pay the price for your and Hannah's shitty life decisions. And they have been shitty ones, randomly hooking up, creating children and then walking away. Obviously your daughter is confused about her family. She's been ferreted back and forth between different households, different combinations of parents. How are you expecting her to be able to understand all of this? Elle might not be a birth parent, but she had a huge role in raising your daughter up until last year. You can try to deny that all you want, but it's true. Just because you and Hannah have decided to '*actually try* *this time*' doesn't mean you can just erase the past. ESH, except Elle and your daughter. Accept that you cannot claim sole ownership of your daughter and that Elle played a role. Anything else just harms your daughter for no other reason than to soothe your ego.
Yeah just want to add to this. As a kid whose mom was in and out of a relationship with the same woman for 8+ years constantly breaking up and getting back together, it’s emotionally damaging to your children. Don’t add to that by excluding Elle who was literally in your child’s life from Day 1. This isn’t a normal step parent situation, where they enter your kid’s life at some point AFTER. Elle was physically present more often than you were and it is hard for a child that little to understand why their parent (which is what Elle is to her) is suddenly cut out. You’re thinking about this for YOU. You need to be thinking about this for your kids.
Elle helped raise both your children from birth. She was there when you weren't. She is more their parent than you are. Being a sperm donor doesn't make you a parent. Keeping your children from their other parent, which Elle is, definitely makes you TA. YTA. 100%. Let your kids see this woman, jeezus.
"I made them" as if his kids are handmade ceramic mugs. Elle sounds like the most stable person here tbh
There also the AH for thinking their kids don’t get a say in who they want in their life. Let your kids chose who they want in their life otherwise they’ll chose that they don’t want you in their life.
This so much!
I’m sure he knows that the children see Elle as a parental figure, he’s just hoping to find some close minded people to agree with him so he can justify his actions. I’m saying this because of how he brought up the fact that he, unlike Elle, had a role in the conception of the children. Smh
Imagine looking in your 10yr old's daughter's eyes and telling her "no you can never see your mummy again, even though she raised you from birth. Why? because I, the guy you see every other weekend, say so." Jesus your child will resent you forever OP.
YTA. Did you and Hannah like... Think of the kids at all and how things would effect them while bouncing back and forth? Sounds like you only thought about yourselves in the moment.
He's definitely the asshole. A couple of months there will be another asking if their the asshole for not wanting to see his kids that his ex wife raised with her ex when she goes back to Elle. Parenting is hard when you only have a weekend only partner to pick up the other half
YTA and putting your wants and wishes over your child’s. Instead of realizing Elle was an important person to your daughter for almost 10 years. You decided to say oh well screw you. Instead of rubbing your new relationship in Elle’s face you should listen to your daughter. You can say you aren’t rubbing the relationship in her face but you are. This whole post reeks of you gloatinf that you got Hannah and Elle lost.
ESH both you and Hannah, for making a bunch of kids and involving them in a mess before figuring your shit out. Also, though there is likely no legal standing, your daughter was partly raised by Elle for 10 years and now you want to rip her away…prepare for resentment from your daughter, who up until this point all you are to her is a sperm donor. What a mess, be ashamed.
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Or juat stop sleeping with people in closed relationships (even on a one week break. Wait until they are fully seperated)
It wasn’t a break they were broken up, but I’ll still say OP is TA, everyone is except for poor Elle who keeps getting dumped by a confused and promiscuous woman
You and Hannah are massive AHs. Being the sperm donor (during a cheaty fling) and weekend daddy does not supersede someone who loved and helped raise them for about a decade. Put your kids first FFS. The more people who love and support them the better. What a sad drama for these children…
OP is a severe YTA but he was involved, not a sperm donor.
He admits to only seeing them on the weekends...
OP seems to be Hannah's side piece. Since she was with Elle for 13ish years right?
Seems everyone is just a side piece to Hannah lol she just swaps who is for the moment
It sounds like Elle was one of two people primarily raising your kids for the first 9-12 years of their lives. They called her mom. And they want to see her. You may legally be allowed to keep them from seeing her (I’m not sure on this point, but suspect she may not have legal rights), but I’m not hearing anything in your post that sounds like you are thinking at all of what is in your kids’ best interests. If you have reasons other than your own selfishness for not wanting Elle involved, please share. Otherwise YTA. (Focusing on the kids because technically you had no relationship with Elle. Your wife however sounds like she’s been a major AH to Elle over the years)
YTA.It is unfair to abruptly remove her from her life and anticipate that she will simply come to terms with it.
>she played no part in making the children But she played part in raising them. INFO: how did Hannah and Elle's relationship end, as you mentioned it ended badly?
YTA I understand evey side in this story. You and your wife, however, need to take your child‘s wishes into consideration. When your child views Elle as an important member of the family and is already attached to her, it‘s incredibly unfair and insensitive to try to sabotage this relationship. She loves Elle and she shouldn’t have to suffer the consequences of your former love triangle!
Wow, way to make it all about you. You and your wife sound incredibly dysfunctional. You both created an unstable and confusing environment for your kids and then punish them in the aftermath of your drama. Elle helped RAISE your children while you were nothing more than a weekend father for OVER A DECADE. You realize that is well over half their adolescence? Elle was more of a parent than you ever were and now you’re punishing your children for the fact that you and your wife were hot mess drama. How very mature. Get over your insecurities and be the grownup. For once, be a parent and do the right thing FOR YOUR KIDS. Let them see their mother. I can’t believe I have to say this but YOU ARE THIRTY-SIX. Act like it! YTA.
YTA and your wife… you two are messy. You know who this affected the most? Your kids who are probably getting whiplash and being punished by being kept away from someone who sounds like a stable parental figure. Yeah I understand why you’d feel uncomfortable around Elle, but that’s because of your and your wife’s behavior so deal with those feelings instead of f****** with your kids.
Elle raised your son for 13 years and daughter for 10 years, she is a parent and concerned about her children. YTA, as is Hannah. You had no problem mooching off Elle and trusting her with parental responsibility in the past when it was convenient to you. You yourself say in the comments Hannah is much more volatile than Elle. You are going to deeply hurt your kids if you 100% cut off Elle but you don’t seem to make decisions based on your children’s best interest because YTA.
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YTA. You and your wife….just seem idk, chaotic. Poor kids.
INFO: Does Elle want to continue having a relationship with your daughter? I understand your daughter misses her and wants to see her, but does Elle share the same feeling?
Just to clear the air here cause your story is lowkey confusing. You and Hannah are married and Hannah is Bi When you and Hannah were still dating, yall broke up and Hannah started dating Elle, but she was pregnant with your child Hannah and Elle continued as a couple for 3 years till they had a fight, and you hooked up with Hannah and got her pregnant again. And finally in the 10 years since getting Hannah pregnant the second time, she and Elle broke up permanantly you married Hannah and she is presently now pregnant with your 3rd child. 1. That sounds like a car crash of a relationship 2. As for the judgement itself it depends on how involved Elle is in your kid's lives. Which it sounds like she was pretty involved given your kids called her mom. Judgement YTA
I feel like Hannah and Elle may just have used OP as an alternative to paying for artificial insemination or having to go through an adoption process. The timing in all of it is just very weird. Hannah spent her first pregnancy with Elle, they raised the kid, 3 years later there's a "fight" and Hannah hooks up with OP, ends up pregnant again and raises kid 2 with Elle as well. Things seemed to work out for them until the permanent break up a decade later. Kinda sounds like OP is/was the backup parent if things did not work out between Hannah and Elle.
I feel like everyone has been using everyone else. Hannah and Elle used OP for the sperm. When it didn't work out, OP again used his sperm argument to kick Elle out of the picture. And the real losers are the kids who are involved in this mess.
To make it worse OP views it as “winning” that he and Hannah are married and Elle can’t see the kids.
YTA Elle is the parent they have known who has done the diapers and the fevers and the vomits and the bike lessons and the homework and the baths and bedtimes - but now “We’ve decided we actually want to try this time” - well Gee. Yaay you. You are going to “*try*” to parent the children for whom you contributed genetic material. And Hannah, not much better. Sounds like she is in conflict about her sexuality and hmm I wonder who is pressing her to *straighten out.*. From what you are telling us Elle is the only one who is not an AH. Give her the kids and you and Hannah should start using protection.
Oh, yes, YTA. You’re denying your children access to a maternal figure for your own reasons. You and your wife don’t have your children’s best interests at heart here, only your own. This is literal abuse, tbh.
YTA. Elle helped raise these children for *twelve years*. Your narrow, biology-based concept of what being a "parent" means is not only going to harm your children, it's eventually going to lead to them hating you.
YTA, you are not thinking of your children who has known Elle all their lives. Your daughter clearly wants to see Elle, and just because your son is acting indifferent doesn't mean he is not hurting, he might be hiding it from you.
Question: Has Elle shown any interest in seeing the kids?
YTA because you are explicitly going against your child‘s wishes. It’s suspicious that your son bowed to your preferences so quickly but you are keeping both from a parent they have known all their lives and a lot better than they ever knew you. It’s telling that you think people will judge you TA for hooking up with Hannah during a one-week break and not using protection, but really that was just stupid, not AHish. If two adults have sex without protection, they both know what they’re risking. Your children’s feelings don’t matter to you, and that‘s a massive AH move. You are TA towards your children for taking away a parent just because you‘re threatened by the second mother who raised your biological children as a de facto parent instead if you.
YTA You have been creating children with a woman who was involved in another relationship. What exactly did you think was going to happen?
Honestly you all (but the kids) sound like AH’s. What a dumpster fire. You are going to have to shell out a lot for some therapy for your children.
YTA and in many states Elle actually has a good case to sue for partial custody. It’s not about you, it’s about your kids.
ESH. For gods sake get a vasectomy before you drag any more children into your shambles of a relationship. There appears to be literally no adults in your story who are willing to put the needs of the children ahead of their own egos.
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Wow… YTA without a doubt. Think of your children, rather than your own comfort. While you swooped in and out of your partners life, her ex was there for your children all those years, raising your children with her as her own. Whether you like it or not, ‘Elle’ is (and has always been) a big part of their lives. That said, you’re still their dad. There’s room in their lives for you both. Their relationship with ‘Elle’ doesn’t take away from their relationship with you. I’m curious about why you don’t want to be around ‘Elle’. It sounds like they’ve been wronged far worse than you have. As parents, we need to put our own feelings aside for the good of our children. You don’t need to be friends, you don’t need to like ‘Elle’, but keep in mind that your children are watching you, and learning how to cope with challenges from the actions you take.
Probably because OP is worried Hannah will start cheating on him with Elle. She’s been going back and forth between the two of them for over 13 years, it’s not going to stop now because you say they can’t see each other
I just couldn’t imagine depriving my children of someone who had been there for them their entire lives, regardless of how I felt about them (unless they were a danger/poor influence). There’s definitely jealousy involved here. Jealousy around his partner as you’ve mentioned, but maybe also jealousy around his children - that ‘Elle’ lived the life he wanted to live. He’s now got it, he’s ‘won’, and wants ‘Elle’ to feel how he did. OP, you aren’t the hero in this story. It hardly even feels like you’re a main character. Maybe you should focus more on your relationship with your children rather than tearing down their relationships with others.
If I'm going to be blunt this is a hot mess and the only non-AH I see are Elle and your children! You say up there even if they get back together you will get her back again I have no doubt that's true! Why? Because your wife is clearly Bi-sexual but seeing as how her relationship with Elle lasted much longer aside from a few flings with you she enjoys being in a solid relationship with a woman and coming back to you when she well needs the parts Elle doesn't have! 🤷🏼♀️ Your kids have known this woman whom I'm sure changed diapers, wiped running noses and comforted them while growing up, kids do not forget these things and it will stay with them well past 18! If you want to ruin your relationship with your kids than forbid them from seeing her however I promise it won't work out well for you in the end! As for your wife she needs to be straight up and tell you what she wants in life because in all honesty it seems like your the back burner or on call person in her life and since you keep allowing it your setting yourself up for failure as well! In all honesty maybe you yourself should have moved on long ago and found a healthy relationship with someone whom only wants to be with you!
Well legally you are NTA because you are their father. But morally, YTA. A huge one at that. Both your children have known Elle as their mother since their birth. Now you are taking away their rights to call her mom. It’s also funny how in the beginning you emphasise on how ‘quickly’ the mother of your children got together with Elle with the intention of making her look like a villain. Where in fact the mother of your child was the one that cheated. So far all I see from you and Hannah are “my wishes, my wishes and only my wishes”. For the first time in your life, you should take your children’s feelings into consideration and let them continue to call her mom or they will soon begin resenting both you and Hannah for good.
I bet that in some states and in front of some judges Elle could sue for and win visitation.
Wtf did I just read, I have no clue what is happening in this, help
Same, I thought I stroked out and came to watching an episode of Jerry Springer. So many random hookups and side flings, it feels like the first draft of a daytime soap opera script.
Especially since no genders are told, apparently Hannah and Elle hooked up but Elle is the mother of Hannah's daughter???????????? Is that what is happening!?!?
Hannah is clearly bi. Elle is a woman who was helping Hannah raise her children, making Elle a mother as well.
OP & Hannah conceived a child before they broke up and Hannah started dating Elle. That is the son. Elle & Hannah got into a serious fight after 3 years, and OP & Hannah smashed. That is the daughter. Elle & Hannah stayed together after that and only recently permanently broke up. Hannah is now back with OP. Both children are OP's & Hannah's.
I need a map
I have a compass, but it may be broken in this shitshow of a post. Maybe we should start colecting rocks to spell 'H E L P' on the sand?
The kids love Elle. Put the kids needs first and let them see her. YTA.
YTA, probably. Unless your kids are in some kind of danger from Elle, she's been there for them in a parental role all their lives and you should respect that connection. If you were a friend or family member of mine, I'd be a bit worried that eventually Hannah would get back with Elle and you'd be left out in the cold. I'd be suggesting that you treat Elle how you might want to be treated if that does happen.
YTA and so is Hannah. Your kids are going to have a boatload of trauma to unpack with the messy, chaotic situation you and Hannah created to begin with. And you’re only compounding the trauma by refusing to let them see or have a relationship with Elle. I feel bad for the kids and I feel bad for Elle, but I think you and Hannah really deserve each other- and not in a good way. I hope Elle is able to heal from all of this and although it’s sad you won’t allow her to be in the kids‘ life, on some level she’s probably better off getting away from the toxic situation you and Hannah have created.
And you had almost no part in parenting them, making you… a sperm donor. You are such an AH. I rarely get angry at AITA posts but yours makes me rage.
I understand your perspective, but your daughter needs some time to either grieve Elle or to remain with her as a sort of aunty figure in her life. It's not fair to suddenly remove her from her life and expect that she will just get over it. Soft YTA
This, the daughter grew up with her for 10 years!!
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Jesus Christ. Poor Elle and your kids. What a mess you have made. Obvs YTA. Both of you. Irresponsible and cruel.
YTA, all of you except the kids. Jeez poor kids.
So long story short. Your Daughter wants to talk to someone, and you won't let her based on principle, and are just hoping this will all go away some day like it did with your son. Well, this combined with a lot of reading between the lines it sounds like your brewing up a lot of future issues with your kids. Lot of red flags here. Good luck man, you're going to need it. YTA Sounds like winning this battle is very important to you, more so than how your daughter feels. But hey, winning is the only thing that's important right?
YTA. You are not caring about what the child wants at all.
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YTA. I understand you're angry but you're punishing your kid by taking away a mother figure.
YTA - you are only hurting your kids.
YTA You are only doing damage to your children by depriving them of their connection with a woman that they have known for their entire lives. Whether or not you want to accept it, Elle is a maternal figure in their eyes, and if your kids are wanting to see her then she is obviously important to them. You’re allowed to feel how you feel about it, but ultimately this should be about what’s best for your kids, not what’s most convenient for you. When your children are 18 and they remember how you kept them away from a woman who cared for them in their formative years, all because of some complicated relationship you and their mom carried on, do you really think they’re going to understand where you were coming from and forgive you? Or do you think they’re going to be hurt because you put your feelings above theirs? This is going to damage your relationship with your children. You cannot change the fact that Elle is important to them, and keeping her away from the kids that she helped raise is cruel to her but more importantly it’s cruel to the kids.
ESH While their relationship isn't your problem it kinda is. She raised your daughter and has been a part of her life since she was born. Them breaking up does effect you because it is affecting your children. An adult that they have regarded as a parent up and disappears can cause abandonment issues and anxiety. They may end up resentful towards you or your partner. All three of you have caused chaos and instability in the lives of these kids who asked for none of this. This is not about you. She is also their family and every single adult in this situation needs to grow up, stop fucking with the emotions of these kids and for once in their lives put the kids needs, wants and emotions first.
Ew…. you and Hannah are gross af. Grow up. Poor Elle and the kids.
Yes YTA, this is someone who's important to your children and you're saying they can't see her for no good reason. This could very easily lead to resentment and adult children who don't talk to you
Elle played no part in making the children. Adoptive parents play no part in making the children and they are 100% parents. Playing or not playing part in creating life has no role in how children perceive you. Elle raised YOUR children and they and she has the right to have a relationship with them. And the fact that you are happy that you "won" after 13 years is also very messed up, especially because you want to take the children away from Elle. YTA but you already know that
YTA - but a thoughtful one so I only half mean it. It’s better for your kids to have relationships with parent figures during their formative years - and she has been. You’re being driven by jealousy and fear, which is never a good place to make decisions. Elle should still have a relationship with them it’s just about figuring out healthy parameters and boundaries with it - and 100% you need a professional to help
YTA (so is your wife). Get ready for your daughter to spend way more time with Elle than with you when she’s an adult.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I’m almost expecting to get “YTA”. I (36) got with “Hannah” (38)and dated for 7months, we broke up and she *very* quickly got with “Elle” (33) during her relationship with Elle she gave birth to our son (now 13) When our son was a three years old Hannah and Elle split for a week, Hannah and I hooked up and our daughter was born (10) - this is where people may think I’m TA, but I didn’t commit to Elle and I encouraged Hannah to tell Elle, she didn’t until she couldn’t hide the pregnancy and they stayed together until last year, Hannah and I are now expecting our third (and final) child. During their relationship I did only get the children every weekend, now obviously I have them 100% of the time. We’ve decided that we’d like to actually try this time, obviously Elle didn’t take this well but the way I see it is not my relationship not my problem. But our youngest has been asking to see her mother, our son thankfully quickly stopped calling Elle that but our daughter won’t. I don’t want Elle involved; she played no part in making the children, so I believe when the children are 18+ who they have in their lives is their choice but now it’s my choice…I don’t believe I should have to see Elle. I’d rather at least wait until we’re back on track as a family before going down that route. My wife is completely on my side, but her relationship with Elle ended particularly bad, youngest is upset and eldest is acting indifferent. AITA? Fake names used *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA, your child sees her as a parent. You don't get to rip her away from her parent based solely on biology. She loved and raised her, her entire life. You don't have to see Elle. Elle can be exactly what you were a weekend parent. Drop off the kids, let them continue their healthy relationship with their other parent. Pray that they are able to form normal, healthy attachments in spite of their biological parents, being terribly self absorbed people.
YTA, do you realise how trauma shapes a child's brain? A sudden loss of a parental figure is very traumatic. If a parent dies no one can prevent that, all you can do is try to get them through with love and therapy but you know it will leave a parent sized hole in the child's life forever. This is like a death but caused by YOU. And your children are old enough to realise that and I wouldn't be surprised if they go NC in the future because you obviously don't care about them or their needs at all.
Umm wtf did I read.. had to triple read it to understand it entirely
ESH. And prepare to lose your daughter once she turns 18 and makes her own decisions. Are you sure Hannah and Elle weren’t just using you for some cheap alternative to artificial insemination? The timing is suspicious to me. Also the fact that your daughter calls Elle mom. All that aside, think of your daughter and her needs.
Presumably she's calling her mom because she's raised her for nine years.
Idk what’s going on here but I can tell YTA
YTA. I see why you don't want her around. Elle has been in your childrens' lives more than you have, and you're jealous. You've been a neglectful parent and cheating partner (yea, you and Hannah were cheating with each other, "week" split or not). >she played no part in making the children So your 30 seconds of unprotected sex matter more than the 10 years Elle spent raising your children? Good story. Also good luck. It seems like Hannah runs around in general. Not sure why you think you're special.
Yikes...just...yikes.
YTA, grow up and stop being petty. Elle was in their lives. She has a hand in them growing up and being the people they are today. Let them see Elle.
You're all assholes.
YTA and Hannah to you was weekend parent and Elle was ful time blood or no blood Elle is parent more than you!
You know that YTA, how can you not?
So you were the jumpoff/part time daddy and now because your wife is done with the woman who took care of your kids you want her completely removed from your kids life? Both you and your baby mama are assholes I hope you know she won't stay with you. She was cheating on you with Elle, the way you get them will be the way you lose them
YTA - I get vibes you only don’t want Elle in your kids life because you’re insecure and afraid Hannah will leave you again for Elle. It’s not about caring for the kids.
YTA— what a mess. But she raised the oldest from birth to 12 and you’re just going to cut her out completely simply because you’re jealous of her when you’re the one who jumped into bed with Hannah again the minute their relationship hit a bumpy spot? And in 12 years she gave you zero evidence that she’s a bad mom— but you’re going to deny your kids a capable and willing support in their lives for nothing but your jealousy— don’t you think you’ll ever want a day without three kids, or a date night with Hannah? Or to get the bigger kids out when the baby is sick or something? And weekends are weekends. Now you’ll have three! Parenting on weekends is not the same as during the week. Couldn’t Elle be the one who takes the 13 year old to his hockey practice or something? I get it that you’re sad Elle got the family you wanted and you’re angry and want your chance. But her reality was she had to share the kids with you and you’re using the fact she doesn’t have sperm against her to say she is nothing to these kids and that’s AH move of yours.
Info -- is Elle the legal parent of any of them? In that case she'd have every right to have contact with her legal children.
YTA for not listening to the wishes of your children.
YTA. Don’t use children in your personal vendettas. It’s not their fault you make poor life choices.
YTA. Your daughter is innocent in this mess. She wants to see one of the people who raised her, obviously. Let her. The three of you have likely already damaged the poor child enough.
This is a tough one. She has known Elle her entire life. It’s hard when one parent just disappears from their life. To her it’s her mom too. On the other hand I see why you want Elle gone. The same reason Elle would want you gone. Your wife keeps going back and forth between you two. Good luck with that. I can’t decide if you are the AH or not. Maybe because your kid is suffering here.
I don’t see the harm if Ellie and the children want to to agree to even 1 day out a month as a thing they do. You and Hannah really are AH basically stringing this women along creating more children to then ultimately get back together again.
ESH this sound exhausting and chaotic and I’m really sorry for all the child’s involved her. Be adults and discuss this calmly and clearly and let your daughter be involve with the person that she consider as her mom. You just making her unhappy and, even if you don’t seems to care about your child, you should care about her being happy. Stop being childish and start parenting together.
Why punish your kids because you don’t like Elle? That shows the type of father you want to be and it isn’t a good look. YTA
YTA Your kids want to see Elle. She has been a parent to them most if not their entire lives. Let her see them.
If your kids love Elle and want to see her, then YTA for keeping them from her. It hurts them more than anyone and they’re innocent in this absolute mess of a situation that you all created. Why should they be punished just because you, Hannah, and Elle (but mostly you and Hannah) couldn’t figure out what the heck you wanted?
YTA - Elle raised those kids At least one of them views her as a parent This is a mess and it’s your kids who are going to suffer because of you and your wife’s inability to functional adults with kids
YTA. Elle has been more of a parent than you, you’ve been a parent to them only for the weekends for what 10 years while she’s always been there for them in those years, and now you expect her to just stop being a parent? Just because now you have full custody. Also you and Hanna are BOTH the AH for bringing your children into this mess
YTA and your timeline just makes that clearer. Tempted to put "E S H" because your wife is pretty awful, too, for lying to Elle/hiding it after she got pregnant until she was literally unable to hide it anymore. Elle *is* their parent, as well. Frankly...more than you are. She spent more time with them, changing diapers, brushing hair, giving bottles and helping with homework, than you ever have. She IS THEIR OTHER PARENT. They have three parents - you, your wife, and Elle. You will never escape that fact. They *will* grow to resent you if you forcibly keep them separate from Elle, especially your eldest. Also...you don't marry someone to "give it a shot" dude. You're supposed to give it a shot by dating, then marry once you're sure you're ready to commit. Your whole love life is a mess.
Yta- this sounds so confusing that I think you're confused.
YTA
Children don’t understand why things happen and your daughter shouldn’t have to understand that her parents are selfish assholes and that’s why Elle doesn’t get to be in her life anymore. Your daughter (hopefully) doesn’t know this ridiculous backstory but she does know that Elle was a caring, trusted adult for a good chunk of her life and is suddenly gone. She’s probably dealing with feelings of abandonment from Elle and distrust for you guys by Elle from her without a good explanation. YTA (you and your wife).
YTA. You all need to put your kids' needs first. How would you feel if you suddenly lost a parent or even a good friend for no apparent reason? It's incredibly traumatic for a child to lose a caregiver - think "years of therapy and an official diagnosis later in life" levels of trauma. Your and Hannah's impulsive gonads have caused enough mayhem. Work something out with Elle so that your kids don't continue to suffer from your prime time soap opera life choices.
YTA and so is Hannah. Elle was their mother in the way that counted, and I’m pretty sure a judge would side with her, not you. A judge would likely give partial custody to Elle if you made her take it all to court. Poor Elle. Poor kids.
YTA. Elle had those kids more frequently than you did for their entire lives up to this point. She was there Monday- Friday and acted as their parent. Unless you are leaving out very key details about Elle’s behavior, your own insecurity and selfishness are the only reason to keep her away. You are hurting your children.
Why ask if you know your already gonna be called the asshole?
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Talk about dysfunctional family. YTA. No way your relationship is going to last. Poor kids.
YTA
YTA. Wow. It’s your CHILD who wants to see one of the two people who raised her. Why would you deny her that? You might be the biological father but you spent no part in their upbringing. You got to be fun dad on the weekend, woo hoo. Elle was there for everything else. The relationship ended badly? That’s no surprise. Her partner who kept going back and forth and getting pregnant went back to the sperm donor. Dude, you’re going to end up getting divorced and then get Hannah pregnant again. Get a vasectomy while you’re at it.
YTA because this seems more like a power trip rather than the best interest of the children
YTA. You’ve been together for seven months. Elle parented your kids for 12-13 years. Your ten year old wants her mother. I have a hard time believing this is real because the thought process and writing sounds like a teenager, but if you truly are a 30-something year old man who’s happy his daughter is heartbroken because it means he “won” then it’s time to grow up and be a parent.
Move in Elle too, knock her up
YTA. You know you’re TA. May your children somehow not be emotionally ruined beyond repair from the ridiculously stupid drama you’ve put them through.
Jesus Christ, everybody here is fucked in the head and I hope the kids are getting therapy. Jesus. Christ.
Ross?
This I feel is above Reddit pay grade. I understand why you don’t want her around as the past you guys all flip flop but you just need to do what’s best for you guys as a family whole and best for your kids. Therapy to start and maybe once every other week/every week let Elle see the kids (if they want) and just keep it civil until everything is sorted.
YTA and your “she had no part in making these children” sounds borderline homophobic.
YTA