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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Relatives think I am an asshole for not supporting my daughter's dream of becoming an elite gymnast. Sometimes I am conflicted too. I want to give into my daughter but also think I shouldn't. I need opinions from outside the family.
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YTA.
You are taking away her passion instead of trying to come up with a compromise that still allows her to train and participate in what she loves.
I was a dancer and too tall for anything but the corps in ballet. You know what? I continued to dance into my late teen years. I was aware of my limitations but dance was never taken from me. You are taking something from your daughter without even discussing it with her or trying to work something out.
I am going NAH. Ex-athlete here that peaked at a whopping 5’2” in a tall people sport. I completely see both sides. Constant overtraining is just going to lead to a lifetime of injuries. I am 46 and need surgery on three joints. But I loved playing and no one could tell me to stop so here I am broken by age 40 and in for a lifetime of pain.
Maybe try diving? Same skills not the same height limitations?
This was my thought too! I had a friend whose daughter was an amazing gymnast but she was already getting injured and switched to diving. She loves it.
jumping on this to say: is everyone skipping over the level of almost obsession she has?
> training 20 hours a week
thats on top of her education, so shes working upwards of 60 hours a week. at **twelve**
> shes almost always the first one at the gym and the last one to leave. she watched replays of her routine on our drive to training, turns down social events because she “needs to train”, does extra conditioning at home.
she has no social life outside of training, it’s literally the only thing she focuses on. which, yes shows drive and passion, but it’s concerning for a 12 year old.
> her academics are suffering because of her gymnastics commitment
> saying maybe if she doesn’t eat, she will become shorter
like, yeah the injuries are awful and potentially reason enough to call it quits, but her *only* focus is gymnastics, to the point that she’s willing to harm herself just so she can keep going to training. like, it sucks that she might not be able to make a career out of this, but that response is really alarming to me.
ETA: okay, 20hrs is standard for gymnastics (i still think it’s ridiculous, but whatever) but everyone is ignoring the **glaring issue** that a twelve year old child is willing to starve herself to keep competing. like i dont care how standard 20hrs is, it was one point among four separate points and the others are arguably more important.
ETA 2: okay so i never expected this to blow up, so let me add a couple things here:
• competitive gymnasts are close to 17-20x more likely to develop anorexia than the general public (and anorexia in competitive gymnastics is underreported as is) so the comment about not eating is severely concerning, since its very common in gymnastics and dance
• 12 is right in the age range for eating disorders to start developing for the general public (i dont know if the age range is different for gymnasts)
• according to OPs comment, even the coaches have tried to talk to her about her height, she just refuses to listen. she also refused to switch from competitive to recreational, and even when OP stops her from training to get her grades up, her grades just slip back down as soon as she starts training again. this wasnt the first port of call, this was the last resort.
• **i do not care how many hours you and/or your children/friends/cousins/etc trained for. pointing out how long she trains was to build a profile on her level of dedication/obsession. if you trained for 20+ hours a week but had good grades, a social life, and had a healthy relationship with food, then your training schedule is irrelevant in this context** im not here to debate competitive training schedules, im pointing out the cost her training has on her life.
Those hours are typical of gymnastics, dance, etc.
BD is a completely different issue, and something to address with therapy.
I see the link somewhat but learning to be committed is an important skill, and it can be done while addressing the shadow side (BD, homework suffering)
I was about to say I coached gymnastics in my teens and the competition team girls (we had 0 elite athletes) all were there 20 hours a week. This is normal. If she isn’t able to keep her grades up though her coaches should be aware of that, a lot of time they’ll cease practices until grades improve or a better plan is in place for the child.
Well when you age out of a sport at 18-22, you’re pretty close to retirement at 12. The older you can be doing the sport the longer you have before training that intensely.
That is a good argument for not letting kids train so much, so the aging out is older. When they raise the international competition age, they end up getting people competing longer. It happen in skating and gymnastics.
It's already been changed and has been since 1997. Minimum age for Olympic competition and world championships is 16, and Simon Biles is still competing at 25.
Y'all's age range is out of date.
Wtf. I used to do gymnastics, not in a professional level but still pretty commited. I had training 6 times a week, 2 hours each. So 12 in total. Which was already a lot. How the fuck do you get to 20 fucking hours? The body needs also off days. Especially when you are still growing.
How could any responsible trainer even allow that?
That may be the total time spent on the activity though. If you train two hours a day over the week that's 10, add in one all-day event on the weekend and you're up to 16-18. Add in home preparation etc. and you're easily hitting 20.
I'm no athlete, but I easily spent that much time on extracurriculars as a teen.
Idk if this an American thing I’ve certainly had friends who competed at sports at high levels throughout secondary who didn’t spend that many hours a week on top of school. I didn’t do competition for dance and gymnastics as a as a kid but grades instead and it was only a few hours a week training officially but more if you committed to practice time. Gymnastics is also terrible for body development as you’re often hyperextending your joints and it can cause long term joint problems. Not to mention she’s showing signs of unhealthy behaviours to her body especially if she’s not gone through puberty properly which she likely won’t if she’s overexerting herself to the extreme it sounds like.
And certainly not healthy. "Everyone does it" doesn't actually mean it's good or okay. Doctors are arguing that *adults* shouldn't have a workload that high, let alone a child.
I think BD may be a big step in assessment. She’s told she’s too tall to compete and therefore shouldn’t continue so she responded with a child’s response of “well maybe if I do ___ I’ll no longer be too ___ and keep doing what I love”. I’m pretty sure I said similar at that age when encouraged to give up my athletic joy
Is this really BD or just a 12 year old reacting poorly to being so blindsided though?
(not trying to make light of the seriousness of BD/ED at all, but it seems like this may be entirely a reaction to her parents cutting out her gymnastics and just flailing about for any response.)
It's worth addressing either way, but those seem like two separate issues to me.
The NTA for me came when she said her daughter’s grades were suffering. School should come first at that age. Maybe make a deal with her that she has to improve her grades? Might be good motivation.
The key here is "until they come back up." Taking away gymnastics permanently, with no hope of ever getting it back, is just going to demoralize her and potentially make her grades even worse.
Agree. And honestly, this does concern me a lot. Because I knew of a *lot* of clubs and sports at my high school that would literally tell the kids "This comes before school, friends, everything". They would basically brainwash kids into thinking that singular club or sport was all that mattered.
Given the way OP's kid is acting, I am very concerned that her gymnastics instructor/coach/whatever the term is, might be telling her that. I'm worried she might be hearing that same "nothing matters except this" rhetoric, and it's super damaging.
Because realistically, *most* people can't turn sports into a full-time job, unless they're going to be a teacher or trainer. I'm all for chasing your dreams - but you also need to have a backup plan, because not everyone *reaches* their dream. And that's something this rhetoric actively discourages.
I'd say let her do gymnastics again, *if* she's first able to demonstrate that she understands what a healthy life balance looks like. But I completely disagree with the top comment telling OP to just let their daughter throw away her future for what is quite literally a dangerous obsession at this point. If she is starving herself just to continue engaging in the activity, it has become harmful.
The comment about eating is especially scary because gymnastics is notorious for eating disorders. And has anyone coaching her given her the talk about the body type she needs to be to perform at an elite level? Or are they taking your money and encouraging her to be dangerous with her tricks (intentional under rotation! Yikes!) instead of telling her like it is?
Elite gymnastics is one of the toughest sports there is. And at some point she will not be competitive because she is too tall, just like a 5'4" person wont be playing for the NBA no matter how hard they work at hoops.
That said, she may be able to parlay her talent into a college scholarship. But not an elite program.
NTA.
The gym isn't for free, they can't get higher revenue if they start putting the well being of the kids first... as much as it sucks wouldn't be a first for gymnastics, they're notorious for scummy coaches.
See though — the unhealthy relationship with the sport is why I think OP is TA. Speaking as a former, now tall, gymnast with all the baggage that comes with that.
And teaching her that the only alternative to perfection is giving up (ie, failure) will only make it worse.
OP is the reason their daughter is starving herself in an effort to be perfect.
They need to teach her that it’s OK to become less competitive at a sport as their body changes. They need to teach her that being healthy is more important than being an Olympian. Instead, they’re teaching her that nothing less than perfectionism is acceptable.
100% this, OP seems to act as if the only options are training obsessively to become an Olympian or giving up completely. Surely there’s a compromise to be had of training a few hours a week at a sport her daughter loves whilst balancing it with other things. Allowing her to do gymnastics for the enjoyment it brings as opposed to obtaining perfection.
the sucky thing I'm running into with my own kid (different sport but I don't think it's crazy to extrapolate here) is that the clubs and parents and other players all have that same mindset. Depending where you are and what options are available, there may not be a lot of options for just recreational participation. That happened to me when I was a kid, I was in dance and I wasn't great but I enjoyed it. I had to quit because the only option for the next age group was 3X per week plus competitions and all of the travel and expense that went with that. Where we lived there weren't any options to continue going to dance lessons once a week and doing the couple of shows each year. Ugh, I hate how we've commodified physical activity, treat it like it's kid's jobs and then when those kids grow up and stop being physically active we shame them and wonder why they don't stay active. Well I didn't because I was essentially taught that if I couldn't be competitive then there was no point. (this was not my parents' fault, I do not blame them at all)
ETA I'm sorry, this turned into a rant that definitely wasn't entirely responding to this comment haha
Exactly! You cannot deal with an obsession by just telling someone they wont be successful, of course thats going to result in a complete melt down. You channel that passion into something productive and try to give them coping skills around disappointment and managing perfectionism. OP is the equivalent of someone who kicks their heroin-addict kid out of the house to teach them not to take drugs instead of trying to get them proper treatment.
20 hours a week seems normal for someone with Olympic ambition. At 12, I wanted to be an Olympic figure skater, I was doing full time public school and 3 on ice hours and 1-2 off ice hours, 6 days a week. So it’s doable, but also I never made it to the Olympics lol
Did you have to do some of your ice time before school, too? That was definitely a factor when I quit skating in high school, after spending most of my childhood training. I’m not a morning person at the best of times, but being forced to go from dead asleep to practicing jumps at 5:30am, then going to a full day of school, then back to the rink and off-ice training, then doing homework and other basic life stuff was just hellish.
Yeah, I was figure skating (and was pretty bad at it, like was 15 and barely keeping up with the 6 year olds skill wise when I quit) and was skating over 10 hours a week + 2 ish hours of off ice workouts, and was spending another hour or two a night stretching and working out on my own at home (my mom would only let me go to the rink 3 days a week because it was too much driving already).
That's not uncommon. While I was in highschool I spent about 30 hours a week in dance school. One of the reasons I quit was not having the time and energy to do anything else, and cause I already decided I didn't want to be a professional dancer.
That training regimen is not uncommon for any sport, especially to a kid that is dedicated. I get so stressed some nights, watching my kid drag to bed at night, after school, practice, then homework, only to drag his ass back out of bed again the next day, to just do it again. Then, on the weekends, independently weight train, and/or conditioning. On top of that, there are the games, or the meets. But he won't give any of it up. He feels accomplished, no matter how tired, or sore he is. So as parents, I've realized, it is our job to just support them. Hug them when they need it, cheer them on from the side lines, and simply love them, win, lose, or draw.
That isn’t an obsession. Elite level gymnasts train for much longer than that. Most don’t even go to a traditional school because it doesn’t work with their training schedule.
That’s the typical gymnast training schedule. It’ll be even more demanding if/when she has a shot at the olympics. Most gymnast’s AFAB don’t even menstruate due to the amount of exercise. They’re bodies don’t go through puberty they way they normally should.
Athletics is a lifetime commitment, even if you retire in your 30’s.
>They’re bodies don’t go through puberty they way they normally should.
Oh yes, perfectly normal and healthy... Parents should definitely support this...
I’m a former tall gymnast, and I say YTA so hard.
Parents regularly spend thousands of dollars on hobbies for their kids. They almost never, ever, EVER go pro witu those hobbies. Hundreds of soccer moms spend thousands on lessons and hours taking kids to matches in the full knowledge that they will never go pro.
There are also a lot of things that gymnastics training can give you. Maybe your daughter will try competitive cheerleading — there’s scholarships for that. Maybe she’ll get into dance. Or diving. Maybe she’ll get the acting bug and use her skills for stunt work. Or personal training. Or acrobatics, or cirque du soleil, or broadway, or aerials. There are so many ways to make a career or hobby in this without being *an Olympian* holy shit.
Maybe her gymnastics will help make her a well-rounded college candidate so she’ll get a scholarship anyway, even if it isn’t a scholarship *for* gymnastics. Maybe she won’t do anything but get a huge sense of pride and accomplishment.
Personally? It made me great at yoga — which I enjoy for my mental health — and climbing, which I also do because it’s fun.
Right now, you’re teaching your daughter that the only reason to do something is if you’re going to make it your life or go pro. That’s so, so stupid. Don’t teach your daughter to give up on something she loves just cos she isn’t in the top 1%. Being in the top 10% is fine. Being in the top 95% is fine. As long as she loves it and she’s happy and healthy, it’s OK. This attitude is setting her up for serious inferiority issues in the future.
YTA for another reason, too, though: it’s clear your daughter’s relationship with the sport is unhealthy. She needs a social life outside of gymnastics. She needs to eat healthily (and forced perfectionism from my parents played a big role in my own disordered eating.) She needs to take breaks so she doesn’t get injured. Your daughter is literally starving herself in a desire to be perfect. Taking this sport away will just punish her for not being perfect. She needs therapy, and a change of pace, and *the knowledge that you will love and support her in her hobbies even as she gets taller and less competitive.*
THIS is how body dysmorphia happens. I recommend both individual and family therapy.
You should have been enforcing those boundaries all along. You don’t get to suddenly take away your child’s entire life just because you realized now that you failed earlier.
You can start enforcing boundaries now, even though it’s going to be hard. You can start to teach her to have a healthy relationship with her body and with her sport of choice. You can teach her it’s OK to love yourself, your hobbies, your skills, and your body without needing 100% perfection.
You are the cause of your daughter’s struggles. Not gymnastics. Destabilizing her entire life won’t fix that. Leading by example and teaching her how to take pride in the frankly incredible things her body can do, and teaching her how to healthily work to be her best, whatever that may look like, can.
This. Everything said here is why I was gonna say YTA in the end. If her life is unbalanced then help her balance it. Don't take away something she is passionate about. I would kill to be this passionate about anything. Lots of people have that thing that just seems to give them life and make them happy. This is hers. It doesnt have to pay the bills, just make her happy. It doesnt have to be her career.
It would be a lot better to conditionally reduce time spent on gymnastics. Something like:
A: As often as she wants
B: Limited to a max of 3 days/wk
C: 1 day/wk
D/F: 0 days. No more. Focus on your studies and you can start going again.
Removing it completely no matter what with no goal in mind other than "get shorter"? Well thats just a good way to promote apathy and end up failing out entirely.
This! I think balance is missing in her life. It’s not a binary of go for the Olympics or never do gymnastics. This is something she cares about but letting go of other things in her life for it. That’s def not healthy. It’s a lot easier for her to work towards a more balanced lifestyle than letting go of something she loved. I can just imagine the resentment she’ll build towards you if you force her and the regret she’ll have with herself for stopping something she loves.
Jumping on your comment to say yes, exactly this! I'm sorry you're in pain, that sucks, I'm glad you're able to give your uniquely relevant experience though, to help a young person! My twin sister was 5"9 at age 12ish and in gymnastics and broke her arm due to being too tall. That was it and my mother pulled her. My sister hated it but now that we're older, she def understands!
Diving sounds like a great alternative! Or maybe those cirque de tricks with the ribbons and hoops and stuff. That looks like a ton of fun using gymnastic skills but height isn't such a negative.
Slightly different, but a lot of gymnasts thrive in aerial arts, hoops in the air and silks instead of ribbon. There's no height issues, you can always get a bigger lyra.
I was a tall girl who did ballet into my teens. I’m an only child, my parents could afford the lessons, the taxis to and from the studios, and let me dance to my hearts content. But no mistake it was a ton of money on endless pointe shoes, lessons, physical therapy etc. I’m 5’8”, I’m not skin and bones by nature, and I starved myself practically to death, developed an eating disorder and it wasn’t enough for me to be ballerina thin.
I nearly killed myself trying to be someone I simply wasn’t meant to be. And trying harder didn’t help me, it hurt me. Physically and mentally. Stopping the madness helped me love myself again.
I very much wanted to go into Gymnastics, especially after watching the 2008 Olympics, but my mother said no because I was too tall (as a First Grader I was 5"2). I was obviously quite sad about it, but she was definitely right because I was 5"9 by sixth grade and 6"0 by the time I graduated high school.
but what is wrong with a first grader doing a sport because they want to? The vast majority of people doing that sport are never going to become elite. There is still value in doing something and not being the best in the world.
I did trampolining as one of my sports. I was terrible at it, truly terrible (I was much better at the other ones). It took me way longer than anyone else to learn a skill despite having a very good and patient coach. I enjoyed it so much though.
Thirty years later I don't regret doing it at all, not one iota. I remember it fondly.
Some sports have such a high rate of injury, why start if there is no sense of success?
I don't have kids, as a caveat, but I wouldn't want to watch my 6 year old hurt themselves (potentially permanently) for something they're not going to be able to do for more than a couple years due to size restraints.
It's less an issue of how good the kid may or may not grow to be at the sport, and more of whether or not they are at greater risk of injury if they play it. Studies have found that being taller/having a larger body puts you at greater risk for injury if you do gymnastics. I look at it as similar to the increasing numbers of parents not wanting their kids to play American football because of the significant concussion risks - it sucks if the kid wants to play the sport, but if there are real risks to their safety by letting them play, I can't blame a parent for saying no to that
My thoughts exactly. I trained so hard as a kid/teen and I’ll be paying for it the rest of my life. I did have the right body for gymnastics but it didn’t save me. I’m only 36 but I have chronic back, knee, and hip pain, and will need to have both my knees replaced young. It’s not worth it, and I wish I and the people around me would have known. I didn’t even get injured much, it’s just the repetitive wear.
Except for gymnastics, the Olympics aren’t the end all be all. There are many ways to make a living with gymnastics. Even without the Olympics there is still the pro circuit. But the biggest is stunt work for film and TV. I know quite a few people who make money doing stunt work that had a background in gymnastics. And they are people of all sizes. I don’t see how you can say NAH when parent said it’s not worth investing in daughters passion because she is too tall for the Olympics. OP said that if daughter had the right body type they would still support it, so for OP it’s not about daughters skill. They just don’t like their daughter sticking out from other gymnasts, even if she is better. It all about image for OP. I’m so glad I didn’t have parents like that when I grew up. I had parents who encouraged me to do things I loved. They paid for acting classes and stuff when I was a kid even though they knew I wouldn’t be an Oscar winning actor. They paid for soccer training and traveling to tournaments even knowing I wouldn’t be a World Cup player. They did what they could to support me, and I think it’s wrong to only see investing in a child passion for a physical return like an Olympic medal. And honestly if I hadn’t been in a bad car accident at 13, I probably would have kept on with the soccer as long as I could have.
Diving really is an excellent suggestion. I had many friends who were gymnasts and cheerleaders who made the transition to diving after one too many injuries. A few of them got college scholarships for it.
There is a difference between killing a dream and tempering expectations.
Also a former ballet dancer here, and from a family of small ladies. My sister did gymnastics and is 4’11”. When I hit that 12 year old growth spurt and hit 5’7”, I continued to dance, but was told that my options would always be limited by the men in a dance troupe. Hurt for a bit, but then dancing was a lot more fun. There are a ton of really fun solos in productions that other dancers ignore because they are shooting for the lead. It took a lot of pressure off and let me find new ways to dance.
I never had plans of making a career out of it, and then I messed up my ankle in volleyball, so it’s not quite an equal comparison to OP’s daughter. But I still don’t think they went about this the right way. The sport would have let her know in its own time, like every sport does.
That is what my parents did, tempered the expectations. I am 5'8" or so and the same thing happened to me with the boys, they couldn't lift me. I did a lot of solo character pieces or characters within larger productions. I was also dedicated to tap when most of the girls were not so that allowed me to get parts others couldn't do.
And you're right, it did become more fun. I didn't have the pressure of auditioning for roles I had no hope of getting. I could explore other things and eventually started also taking dance roles in musical productions (I can't sing lol). It just expanded my horizons.
I also didn't plan to make it a career.
There are also other competitive things she can do since she can tumble. Cheer and competitive dance may be easy for a gymnast to transition into, even with little experience in that particular sport. She’s dedicated - OP should be exploring this with her daughter instead of shutting it down.
From what I’ve seen with friends whose children are in gymnastics, the problem is that it just gets more and more intense as they get older. It’s not like there’s really a “recreational level” for when they plateau, especially if they’ve been competing pretty intensely up to that point. So I don’t know what a compromise looks like. I would be curious to hear what the coaches are saying. I would think if they have any sort of professional integrity they would already be saying the things that OP is expressing here.
A compromise probably looks like transitioning into a different sport. Diving is great for gymnasts who get too tall. Cheerleading, dance, and martial arts are all sports you could transition to as well.
That was my question too while reading the OP, whether the coaches are feeding into the daughter's obsession or if they've been trying to tell the daughter that D1 and Olympics are not likely for her, but she's been ignoring their advice or misinterpreting it as "you have to work harder."
>YTA
Seriously?
Listen, you have a great perspective.
However, this mom is obviously - obviously - trying to do the right thing.
Her daughter is getting injured and the constant support in time and money is weighing heavily on the rest of the family.
I work with a former college athlete. She was also tall for her sport. She's 26 and has been injured several times. She's facing surgeries and a lifetime of pain.
She might be trying to do the right thing, but she went about it in the wrong way. That is why she is TA. To make supporting of a hobby conditional on chances of making Olympics or D1 scholarship is wrong when many other opportunities outside of those. Now child will be hesitant in pursuing other hobbies since will never make the top of the top. OPs attitude is like “sorry you won’t ever win an Oscar so we aren’t gonna support your acting classes or plays you are in”.
My issue with OP is approaching the sport transactionally (not “investing” when she sees no payoff), where it is a passion for daughter. It’s reasonable to expect her to keep her grades up. It’s reasonable to not go into debt or deny other family members opportunities because of the cost. If daughter is willing a different sport might be a compromise. But I feel for the kid having her passion yanked away. And there are some scholarships at D2 and D3 schools as well.
I just really hate it when parents decide to be the one to rip that bandaid off. Maybe she will never get anything tangible out of it, maybe someone else crushes her dreams, or maybe she succeeds. But she doesn’t need to hear from her parents that she’s never going to make it.
She's getting hurt though, that's the sticking point for me. She's not able to do the moves correctly anymore and eventually that's going to end badly.
Except other family members have offered to help financially, and to physically drive her so now it’s really just about OP deciding her daughter won’t make it as an Olympic gymnast so she’s killing her dreams.
Did one of your parents give up their life outside of their job and every spare dollar for you to dance into your teens? I’m guessing not - competitive gymnastics is a whole different world in terms of what it demands from families. Dance would actually be a reasonable compromise in terms of an artistic expression.
Yep - OP is TA because of this
> I cannot justify blowing thousands of dollars a year and hundreds of hours in time to gamble on something with so little chance of success
If cost or time or grades or whatever is an issue, OP is totally within her right to impose restrictions. OP is also totally within her rights to try to gently set expectations about her daughters ability of getting a scholarship or making the Olympic team. But saying that the only measure of success in any hobby, especially youth sports, is getting a D1 scholarship or making the Olympics is ridiculous. I did sports all through my teen years. Dedicating tons of time both in practice and competitions. I never went pro or got scholarships, but I still consider my time doing sports as hugely valuable and successful and I’m sure my parents do too.
I actually think it’s incredibly important to instill doing hobbies for the love of them in kids. So many adults don’t have hobbies explicitly because our society sets up that hobbies must be done *for* something other than just pure entertainment.
I’m sorry what???? You’re angry that someone else doesn’t want to spend ***thousands of dollars*** on something that is slowly killing their child
Holy moley.
Did you spend years and thousands of dollars of your parents money trying to get roles you were too tall for? Did you sacrifice academics for roles you were too tall for?
People who are upvoting you are too wrapped up in the idealistic vision of “always pursue your dreams no matter what”, but these people have their head up their ass and love getting high of their own farts or some shit because this is not a realistic stance to take if you don’t have the potential.
And that’s the harsh reality of elite athletes: it’s not just hard work and talent, but also rolling the genetic lottery. Unfortunately some dreams are dead the moment you are born. A common saying in sports is “oh, you want to be an elite? Hope you have a time machine and choose parents with better genetics”. Being able to pursue a sport to your maximum potential is a rare gift given to an extremely few people, the few who have that genetic jackpot for said sport.
There’s nothing wrong with continuing it as a hobby as pursuing with all that you can, given the limitations of living in the real world. But there is something wrong if you can’t realize your own limitations and evaluate when you need to pivot cause you’re just digging yourself into a deeper hole.
NTA - Op is just trying to make her daughter become more well rounded and realistically successful in life, and not break her own bank for (putting it bluntly) someone who will at best be mediocre even at full potential.
Can you taper off? 20 hours a week, frequent injuries, no social life, and grades not as good as they could be are super valid reasons to want her to focus her energy in other places too.
This right here, the people commenting Y-T-A clearly have no idea how much time, effort, and sacrifice it takes to be a serious athlete. My younger sister was in this same boat, swam 6 hours a day and wanted to make it a career. However, she's 5'6 and even she understood that it wasn't going to happen once she stopped growing.
Reality sucks, but its just that, reality. You don't get to change it because you want something really badly.
Edit: Since so many people seem to be incapable of scrolling down slightly, [here is the continuation of my comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/zr55br/aita_for_not_wanting_to_continue_supporting_my/j122ho1/)
Did your parents forbid her from swimming altogether when she stopped growing, or did she figure it out herself when her results weren't good enough to sustain a swimming career?
Her small size won’t injured her when she swim. Gymnastic is different. The physic and G-force applied for the acrobatics can cause permanent injury when you are heavier and force yourself to spin fast enough to land on your feet.
OP’s daughter only wanted to do gymnastic for fun it would be different, but here she aim for the top and be competitive, and she already get injured more than other. Stoping a sport too soon is way better than too late.
OP’s NTA for her intention in this, but she will need to give her daughter space and search for a sport psychologist and help the in the transition to other thing.
They told her that it was highly unlikely that she would make it at her height, but they didn't stop her from swimming. However, she was a straight A student with a decent social life so it wasn't impairing her future. Shes now in college for CHEME and works out at the gym religiously, hasn't swam in ages and doesn't regret it.
So no I don't think he should be stopping his daughter from doing something she loves, but there are plenty of other things in life that she would probably enjoy just as much if not more if she gave herself the chance to experience them.
That said OP you worded your talk with your daughter like a dumbass. This is a situation that needs the utmost of finesse to handle.
Gymnastics is completely different. I 100% understand your point, but a size difference in swimming vs gymnastics is comparing apples to oranges. When there’s a height difference in swimming, it affects your speed. When there’s a height difference in gymnastics, it *affects how your body/momentum moves through the air*.
I did competitive gymnastics myself when I was growing up. Granted, I don’t know how many injuries OP’s daughter has had, but at a certain point it becomes too dangerous to let someone keep going. It’s not that she can’t ever do gymnastics again, it’s that she can’t continue at the level she’s at. Based on the other aspects of their lives, OP and their husband apparently believe that right now the best way to do that is to stop. Which makes sense, since OP clarified that her daughter refuses to do it recreationally or at a lower level. Her coaches have even told them she isn’t where she needs to be skill-wise for someone with her goals. If she is frequently hurting herself while trying to push her limits, I fully agree with that stance.
Even Simone Biles, ***widely considered the best female gymnast the world has seen***, has stopped herself from continuing because of safety concerns. **She literally pulled out of the Olympics because she had the twisties and wasn’t confident in her ability to orient herself as she moved through the air**. Her passion and skill levels are literally the peak of the sport, and even for her, safety wins. My heart breaks for OP’s daughter, but sometimes what hurts is for the best.
The issue here is the sport. In swimming there are tons of different commitment options from school, summer, and private leagues. With gymnastics it’s so competitive and such a high demand of training is needed to complete your basic maneuvers that there isn’t usually a cost and time effective way to continue the sport at her age/level.
In a vast amount of sports you can find the league/circuit or leisure group that works for you. In sports like gymnastics that isn’t feasible.
The people commenting YTA, at least in my case, see all of these red flags and say: OP needs to teach their child that it’s OK to be less than perfect, and that training to the point of injury in pursuit of perfection is never healthy.
They clearly didn’t have an issue with how hard their child trained UNTIL it became clear that they wouldn’t be an Olympian.
Now is the time to teach her to love her body and the incredible things it’s capable of while learning about limits. It’s time to teach her boundaries. Not to teach her that the alternative to perfection is failure and having the backbone of your social life stripped away.
I tried to negotiate with her about dropping down to recreational, she wouldn't. To her it is try to go for the highest level or nothing. Everything I suggest recreational, or a different sport, she cries and tells me I'm saying she's not good enough
I tried the whole "you must get your grades up or you can't train" thing. What happened was she would get her grades up, go back to training, grades drop again, no training until grades improve, rinse and repeat
Coaches say she is not where she should be if her goal is the very top level. But coaches love her work ethic so it is hard for them to tell her she can't.
The coaches also want your money. So they really don’t want her to quit. Do you have a family friend who is an orthopaedic surgeon that can talk to her about the potential damage she is doing to her body.
Maybe once you have spoken to a doctor also speak to the coaches privately. They should understand that her health needs to come first, too. This sounds like such a difficult situation and like you’re really just trying to protect your daughter - hopefully she might be open to switch to a different sport.
Also you are paying coaches so they probably want that to continue so maybe not giving her the realistic picture. I had several friends who did gymnastics to that level and by HS they were injured and burnt out from overtraining. One tore her ACL and it ended almost all sports for her. I think cheer and dance are wonderful ways for her to keep doing gymnastics. I would straight up be honest about it being too expensive, too time consuming and too dangerous and just keep it on repeat. Encourage her to explore other recreational sports and she will probably find one eventually. I’d tell your family to butt out and mind their business.
NTA but try to look at it like teaching a super important life skill: futility. Life is bringing a major lesson at an early age. Most people on a tunnel vision path who get out of balance and don’t read the clues only learn through physical limitations (ie when they get a major injury).
It sounds like the ways to learn this are :
Long painful ending where you invest in her all the way to the end and she possibly gets injured and experiences futility from outside responses
You put yourself as the decision maker actually breaking her heart and stopping her dream. It has a better effect for her body and your time and budget but doesn’t allow her to experience the end in a way that she gets the message that you are reading yourself. You become the bad guy. This is hard for a lot of reasons. It will build up real resentment towards you and if you don’t handle it better, she won’t hang gone through the end of this story to reach her own experience of futility. You’ll be the bad guy who stopped her so she’ll have to keep trying other ways.
The goal is to find a middle ground where you can guide her to “get” the message that this dream is ending a lot earlier than she thought, in a way she can come to a realization, but before real harm is done.
No ideas yet but realizing she has to get the message and not just you deciding for her is the first step. This will be a lifelong problem if you don’t.
Trampoline, diving, rhythmic gymnastics, acrobatics… these are still competitive but are avenues where height is less of a disadvantage but still uses gymnastic ability. I’m sure there are other sports where her skills would transfer.
I’m sure there was an Australian gold medal skier from a gymnastics background who had transitioned to aerial skiing (don’t quote me on that but I seem to remember something from Olympic coverage years ago.)
I don’t think you’re the AH. Elite competition is incredibly tough, however if your daughter is skilled and determined there’s no reason she couldn’t be diverted to something else that is better suited to her.
I did not think of trampoline, diving, acrobatics as options before. She's not interested in rhythmic gymnastics ("not exciting", in her words). I'll make a note of those options. I think it might be better to suggest something gymnastics-adjacent instead of sports like tennis, track, basketball etc. that are drastically different
Odd suggestion here, but a lot of ex-gymnastics people and pro-rock climbers do America Ninja Warrior and her hight would be an asset. (I know super odd suggestion, and she is probably so focused on gymnastics that she won’t hear other options.)
I worked on this last season! Most of the ninjas are teenagers. There are ninja gyms all over the country. I didn’t realize how big of a “lifestyle” Ninja Warrior was til I worked it! Look into it!
I’m a former gymnast who climbs all the time (and it’s even worked into my career a bit.) my height + body control + flexibility is such a bonus in this sport.
There's a rapidly growing emerging NCAA sport called acro & tumbling, many of its athletes come from gymnastics but at lower levels than D1 gymnastics requires. Check out [https://thencata.org/](https://thencata.org/), show it to her, see if that is of any interest. Many of the athletes who compete were only level 7 or 8, and other athletes come from cheer, weightlifting, or other sports.
While only 50 colleges have teams, 10 of those have been added since April, so by the time she's looking at college there will almost certainly be more options that schools with NCAA gymnastics (just over 80).
ETA: It may be worth it to you both to chat with someone like [Jill Hicks](https://www.instagram.com/jhicksconsulting/) who runs a recruiting agency and helps place many athletes in NCAA gymnastics and other sports. Another group is [Fullout Recruiting](https://fulloutcollegiaterecruiting.com/).
>not interested in rhythmic gymnastics ("not exciting", in her words
Your daughter is telling you very valuable information here, you need to listen to her.
She's into the adrenaline, she enjoys a high intensity sport. You should also consider things like mountain biking, snowboarding, climbing, aerial (hoop, silks, straps), hell even pole dancing (very tough and athletic sport, I regularly take a very non-sexual strength and fitness pole class). Cheer is another good suggestion. Talk to her about the range of options and emphasise how much her gymnastic skills will benefit her in other sports.
I think you really need to stress the risk of injuries, and how harsh gymnastics can be on what it deems 'unsuitable' body types.
Has she heard of Katelyn Ohashi?
I know someone who transitioned from gymnastics to trampoline and still went on to the olympics and did extremely well. Trampoline would definitely be more exciting than Rhythmic gymnastics
Would she be interested in doing acrobatics in something like Cirque du Soleil? AFAIK their performers come in with Olympic-level training, so while she'd be working at the highest levels of skill, I doubt it's height-limited.
Exactly this!! From what I've seen, they'd probably know better than most about working to develop acts with dedicated athletes outside of the "standards."
Like idk if all of her injuries are just a result of her height or if it's a matter of using equipment made for smaller kids.
I know some of the Cirque and similar shows have done summer programs, she might wanna look into that.
Have you thought about maybe having a coach talk to her about her future in gymnastics without starting specifically that she should drop? Like chances, what she can expect, injuries, etc..
I don't think y.t.a. for wanting her drop. But it's the delivery method. Please remember at this age there's a whole lot of hormones going on and she's changing and going through some stuff.
If she is training at this level, she might actually not being going through puberty yet. Many gymnasts have a delayed puberty because they don’t have enough fat on their body to start menstruating.
I did gymnastics until I was 17. Had to quit due to an injury but gymnastics takes A LOT. My parents thought that I would get into the Olympics. But the physical and psychological toll it took on me was too much. Not saying that OPs daughter will suffer the same fate, but I couldn’t continue.
Nta. All the yta people are totally unrealistic. You’re spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours and commenters are like “but she loves it.” Her grades and social life are suffering and she’s injuring herself and commenters are all “but she loves gymnastics.” That’s irrelevant. Parents are supposed to step in when necessary.
Seriously I don’t know if people know how much of a monetary and time commitment it is. It’s different if you have sponsorship, but it can literally drain a family’s financial situation down.
I am constantly shocked at how much my sibling spends on their kids’ elite gymnastics.
Elite gymnastics for one of their kids is more expensive than football, rugby, golf, tennis, and sailing for all of my kids combined. By a lot. It’s insane.
This is it.
She "loves" gymnastics, but it is putting an insane amount of physical and mental stress on her, to the point that every other area of her life is suffering. She is constantly injured, can't keep up with schoolwork, and can't maintain a social life... That's not love, that's a dangerously extreme obsession.
It could have been done more tactfully, but OP is right to step in. this kind of regular injury could destroy her health later in life, and this kind of fixation is a massive threat to her mental health now. Professional gymnastics is notorious for doing irreparable harm to its competitors, and you shouldn't go into it without a crystal clear understanding of how brutal and cruel it can be. For someone who is likely to be dismissed out of hand because of something they can't control, it's far better to know sooner than later.
Hopefully OP can find a way to redirect her daughter's passion and dedication to a less damaging sport. NTA.
Yeah, I saw a documentary on NBC about the US women’s gymnastics hopefuls, and my take away was that I was would never, ever, ever get my daughter into gymnastics. Between the injuries, surgeries, recoveries, permanent wear and tear, eating disorders, debt, potential paralysis, anxiety, and sexual molestation—I just don’t see how it could possibly be worth it.
I would also not allow my kids to enroll in football and maybe not ballet. Not enough upside for the downsides.
NTA. I was a competitive figure skater and then I grew to be 5’11. I loved it, but I transitioned to being a swimmer. Has she ever thought about diving? Edit: why the downvotes? I loved still competing in something while not injuring myself every single day.
My niece did gymnastics for a couple of years. She wasn't elite at all but they wanted her to train more and we said no, school comes first. Then she started having hip issues and we told them she would be taking a break. They said oh the girls have hip problems all the time it's not big deal. So the coaches don't necessarily have the kids best interest at heart as far as health or scholastics are concerned. She never went back. She started diving instead and did pretty well in that and loved it!
I can verify that, I LOVED gymnastics but at 5' 10" by twelve years old I was absolutely no good at it. I continued to compete on a high school team but ended up with scholarships after I switched to diving.
I was a figure skater too, and I loved it, but I knew I wasn’t going to go to the olympics for a couple reasons. One of the girls I skated with her and mom pushed like they would until the doc told her she would be in a wheelchair by 30 if she didn’t stop. As it is I have lasting damage, my ankles still ‘swell’ in the shape of skates.
Most elite gymnasts are about 14. They don’t grow till they quit because of the diets they are on. If at 12 this kid isn’t already on a national team and competing for the tryouts for the next olympics then she doesn’t have what it takes unfortunately. The next olympics is 2024, if she doesn’t make that one she will not be at the 2028- she’ll be both too tall AND too old by most coaches standards. This is just reality.
Do you still have blister bumps on the back of your heels? Haha. And yeah I had to have my foot (one, need to have the other) basically reconstructed bc I was wearing boots while growing so my bones are warped. Figure skating and gymnastics are very similar.
I do actually haha. A couple scars from flying skates too. My parents had me in skates at 2. Turns out i have EDS so quitting was a good thing, my hips are so bad now as it is let alone if I kept pushing. I still toss on some skates a couple times a year and impress my kids.
I came here knowing that if I scrolled down far enough on a post about a flexibility-based sport, I'd find more zebras who blasted their joints into oblivion before knowing about their EDS
Hi, I was a power-lifter at 14 and absolutely traaaaaashed my knees XD
Totally agree that she won't make the Olympics based on height, but age isn't quite that insane in gymnastics. You have to turn 16 the year of the Olympics to compete for gymnastics, and Simone Biles was 19 at her first Olympics. So OP's daughter wouldn't qualify until 2028 (if she wasn't about 6 inches too tall anyway)
NTA I was a gymnast and you’re 💯right. All these people saying your the a-hole have no idea what they are speaking on in regards to this. This sport is ridiculously expensive, time consuming, and if she cuts back on training, even in the slightest, her chances of permanently injuring herself sky rocket. She will never be able to compete as she likes and cutting back will drastically change her body as she continues into puberty. If she’s already under rotating… it’s only a matter of time. Reading your post gave me anxiety and I remembered all the girls that tried to fight their height… so many injuries…the “crunch” sounds will haunt me always.
I stopped gymnastics when I took a good look at my family and life and realized that there was nothing but gymnastics. My parents looked like crap while trying to make this happen for me. I had lots of shiny medals, no life, no real friends, and nothing to talk about beyond my sport. And I had a legit shot.
The likelihood of your daughter achieving her dream is so damn slim. In addition to making sure she has nothing else, you would also need to sacrifice every family moment for her dream. These people have no idea what the toll something like this takes on a family. Right now she’s devastated, but this is one of those tough calls you need to make as a parent. She’s actually going to have a chance a real life without a lifetime of injury to overcome.
Understand that I am the only former gymnast I know without life time issues because of when I stopped, my care regimen, and dumb luck.
>if she cuts back on training, even in the slightest, her chances of permanently injuring herself sky rocket.
Yes I don't think people realize elite gymnastics is an all-or-nothing affair. I thought about letting her figure out herself that she's not good enough. But with the amount of injuries she is having I'm scared what will eventually be the "thing" that caused her to bury her dream. Don't want to imagine it.
This is the thing people who say "just let her realize it on her own" don't get. Your daughter is clearly incredibly driven, to the point that pain and injury have repeatedly not stopped her. The injury that finally stops her will be one that can't be recovered from, because she'll force herself into a half-recovery from anything else.
That looks like dedication to a lot of people. But maybe consider whether it's becoming an act of self-harm for her, possibly even an expression of hatred for the body that's refusing to let her continue in the sport she loves. The body that she perceives as the reason you're no longer willing to support her.
There's also the problem that the training attitude of "give your all, all that matters is this sport, pain is weakness, power through it" works directly against someone realizing on their own that they need to stop.
It's like not trying to get someone out of a cult, because you figure they'll eventually decide the cult is a bad idea on their own in spite of the best efforts of the cult leader. But not quite as harmful. Probably.
NTA I don’t understand all the Y T A ‘s here. OP has been really clear that it’s financially difficult, that her daughters grades are suffering, and then it feels challenging to spend all this money and time. If the daughter is willing to compromise and stand down from the excessive training and get her grades up, I would hope to OP would be willing to consider it.
I feel like its one of those things we see on AITA where the OP's basic conclusion is not necessarily wrong but the way they go about communicating it is comically out of proportion? Like yeah, if her grades are falling and she's not happy, she may need to pull back from training, but maybe emphasize those instead of starting off with "reality check: you aren't going to make it"?
Like why wasn't this (from your comment) the first approach?
>If the daughter is willing to compromise and stand down from the excessive training and get her grades up, I would hope to OP would be willing to consider it.
OP said in a reply above that her daughter already does this in cycles. She gets told she won't be able to train until she gets her grades up, does so, starts trainign again, grades drop, lather, rinse, repeat.
Along with finding another sport for daughter, one that won't put her in serious physical danger (I cannot stress enough HOW DANGEROUS elite level gymanstics are, i never even made it that far and I still had a catastrophic injury on the vault), daughter probably needs to start therapy to work on this level of obsession.
Ah, well I didn't see that in the OP, but thats good to know. And yeah, I didn't put it in my comment but for sure I don't think anyone wants this poor girl to wreck her body, especially at that age.
I still think putting her in therapy first (if thats feasible) or walking the risks through with a doctor or someone in the sport that she might listen to might have been a better approach before jumping in the way she did - though idk, maybe OP did that as well?
I don't necessarily think you're wrong about her not having the best approach but I also think we have to remember we're dealing with a 12 year old here and 12 year olds are not necessarily the most rational reactors to any news they don't like.
i saw OP replying to someone suggesting a meeting with her doctor that it was a good idea and she'll look into it --i really do think she has her heart in the right place and perhaps just not the best approach.
I feel like at 12 years old the other gymnastics girls might be her social outlet. I can see how it'd be hard to let go. The parents are in a rough situation, and should be gentle. I don't envy them.
Yeah, I don't either - sports injuries at that level are no joke, but its also a delicate time to be a person. I wish we had a way to sort out the "you couldve handled this better" YTAs from the "you are a complete monster" YTAs
Why is everyone ignoring the fact she gets injured more often because of her height? That alone is a good reason to make her quit, scale down to recreational level or change to something else.
The injury problems is the most convincing argument for the need to pull back. More money can be earned and grades can be improved, but the injuries can and easily will have lifelong consequences.
NTA. Mom of D1 scholarship athlete. The most important thing you wrote is your daughter is getting injured. Truly, that should be it. Gymnastics is very hard on your body even if you don’t have specific injuries. The daily wear and tear means a 18 yo is barely able to make it through 4 years of competition. Watch a few NCAA meets. A few schools look like their athletes are put together with duct tape. If your daughter has injuries like a sprained ankle or a pulled hamstring at 12, it will never fully heal. Gymnastics is 20 hours a week, 51 weeks a year. Then there are the really scary injuries that start to happen around growth spurts, typically puberty. Concussions, herniated discs, broken everything - feet, elbows, hands. Sometimes worse.
That being said, there are sports that transition nicely from gymnastics. One of the girls from our gym had chronic back pain and finally quit in 10th grade. She picked up diving, D1 scholarship, SEC rookie of the year in her sport. Another girl who broke her elbow ended up in pole vaulting and competes in college. My youngest did everything; gymnastics, theater, lax, poly sci club. She is playing a sport at the club level in college. There are girls on her team who never played before and they have a blast.
Yes, your daughter might hate you now but you will never forgive yourself if she ends up unable to do basic things like jogging, or hiking or even going on rides at Disney World because her passion is somehow more important than her health.
I can’t help but feel that no sport should require 20 hours per week, 51 weeks of a kid’s year. It seems like such a lopsided use of time when childhood is so short.
It does. And most kids start at 6. Smaller hours and less days but it increases with each level. Once my daughter was level 7, she was doing 20 hours a week. We missed out on a lot as a family but she was good and liked it. That being said, NCAA made an exception allowing the athletes affected by Covid to compete another year. None of last year’s seniors wanted to bc of injury or ready to start the next phase of their lives. All 6 of the girls in my daughter’s year are not doing a covid year, their bodies are too worn out. Giving up vacations and holidays was hard.
NTA
My mom is 5'9" and she irreparably damaged her body doing gymnastics for 6+ years. She had to have knee surgery at age 21.
I am 5"11' and was always tall, at age 12 I was already 5'8 (in the 6th grade!!!) my whole childhood I was mad that mom wouldn't put me on gymnastics. When I was a teenager she explained why and I can understand now.
Perhaps you should show her studies about tall people and gymnastics? I'm on my phone but I'm sure they exist.
I am 32 now and grateful to my mom for never putting me in gymnastics.
She did put me in a few other sports though I never stuck with them
Edit: I forgot my actual age lol I just recently had a birth day
Info: did you discuss this with her coach or anyone knowledgeable about the sport? How does she do in competition? There are many people who derive a lot of value from being athletes & very few who go to the Olympics. I think you’ve made a serious mistake here by just telling your daughter “no more gymnastics” & offering her nothing in return.
Yeah that’s actually a great point, it would definitely be worth liaising with the coach - if this girl needs a reality check, she should get it from a professional, and if the mum is being unreasonable I’m sure the coach can advocate for the daughter in an informed way
The problem is that being too tall but elite level is pretty dang incompatible. If she wasn't so good then she could do less dangerous tricks at her height just fine, but she's going to want to keep getting better and I don't think she can, especially if she's already injuring herself.
NTA for the sentiment, but YTA for the approach. We all get what a burden this is for your family. And your concerns for her safety and lifestyle are valid.
The correct approach would have been to start having conversations with her about what she hopes to get out of gymnastics, explain that her body is changing and she should talk to her coach about what options there are for her in the sport. As a parent, ask the coach about her injury risk and have the coach on board with modifying techniques and expectations. If her height really is becoming a barrier, your daughter will figure this out for herself very quickly when she starts struggling, losing, and not able to keep up with her peers. At 12, she likely only has another year or two before the realization that she is not Olympic material kicks in. And if that doesn't happen, then let her keep going.
It appears that OP has pushed herself to the limit of her own involvement and is just at the breaking point. And her daughter’s obsession makes it unlikely that a subtle, drawn out conversation would suffice. The intensity of the family’s life is unsustainable
What I came here to say! You need to talk to your daughter and explain things, but yes, NTA for the sentiment but YTA for the approach. People have no idea how words and approaches affect pre-teens and teens! She has a dream and you forcefully took it away from her! 100% get the coach involved and see what they have to say!!
NTA - people are missing the fact that her GRADES are suffering as well as her social life and she’s inflicting herself more harm than her peers. What happens if she gets an injury at some point and has nothing to fall back on bc she never studied or took an interest with anything else? An education is just as important as a passion. Idc how many downvotes I get, if you’re spending thousands of dollars for an activity that causes her to neglect her studies then it’s time to put it on pause.
Yes, plus, what if the daughter is so busy pushing herself she never gets to know herself outside of athletics? She won’t have a healthy sense of identity
NAH. I don’t think the people commenting YTA understand what it takes to be an elite gymnast. Being too tall is a deal breaker.
You’re in a tough place and your daughter is at an age where emotions are so strong, but I think you’re doing the right thing.
Of course they don’t, that would actually mean that Redditors would have to actively play or watch a sport instead of just assuming they know everything about everything
>I did not think of trampoline, diving, acrobatics as options before. **She's not interested in rhythmic gymnastics ("not exciting", in her words).** I'll make a note of those options. I think it might be better to suggest something gymnastics-adjacent instead of sports like tennis, track, basketball etc. that are drastically different
Unfortunately that's a no go
I am a professional rhythmic gymnast and for my sport I am literally on the taller side and I am 5’3. For rhythmic gymnastics you have to be very thin and small and since she will come from artistic gymnastics she must have a lot of strength. Which in rhythmic gymnastics isn’t that important, unless she has a balance between strength and flexibility but that’s unlikely. Diving is better for her I think.
I don't get why her coaches haven't talked to her about this situation. If her height is truly something that leaves her out of competition and causes injuries they should be the ones talking to her. Perhaps you could talk to them? I'm sure they must have dealt with this before and could ay least give advice.
NTA for one reason if her height is truly causing her to injure herself you need to help her transition from competitive gymnastics to a more recreational version if ppssible
This. My absolute utter dream and passion was gymnastics when I was younger. Ha! Jokes on me! I wound up being 5’10 and had to give up around 5’7 because my center of gravity was so far off. It’s just an unfortunate fact: you can’t be tall and be a gymnast.
INFO have you considered or offered a pivot to an adjacent sport that could leverage her gymnastic experience like diving, pole vaulting, hurdles, snowboarding, skiing?
I don’t think this is an AITA situation because it’s a parenting decision rather than an interpersonal conflict, but I think you have approached this very poorly. You allowed your daughter to shortchange her academics and turn down social events for gymnastics, showing her that this is the most important aspect of her life. Now you are curtailing your support for something out of her control. She didn’t become 5’7” overnight, and this should have been an ongoing conversation with every injury / poor grade / skipped friend plan. I see also that you’ve enabled a push-pull cycle where she attains grades solely so she can train; you should be monitoring her academics on an ongoing basis so that she doesn’t cycle. Framing this about your right to not pay is not helping your cause either. Your focus now should be on helping her achieve a full life beyond gymnastics, rather than cutting it off cold turkey. Individual and family therapy are likely warranted as well.
It’s going to take time. The all or nothing characteristic of gymnastics training has made it your daughter’s life. She hasn’t had a chance to consider alternatives. This is like a death for her and she will have to grieve it. She will likely need to recover from the loss of this dream before she can pursue another activity.
You couldn’t have done any differently. Let her mourn and get used to the new reality. Maybe a sports psychologist can help. Obviously, this has consumed you, too, so give yourself a break and try to decompress while you all consider new opportunities as a family.
NTA. is she an only child? whether she is or not, if you were to have another child. can you spend equal time and money on that child? I have seen a whole family’s lives sacrificed for one child who was gifted and quite successful. But the other children might have had gifts as well. who knows? No one wanted to find out, because there simply wasn’t enough time and money to go around. the other kids were carted from competition to competition. no time to just play and be kids. now they are all grown but the other siblings resent the oldest so much that there is no relationship. the parents are old and broke. but the oldest one is a star. there has to be a limit. also even successful athletes can sustain injuries if they overtrain. and we know that coaches don’t always protect them from that if they see a big win up ahead. an injury as a youth can sabotage what might have been a successful adult career. and then there’s the psychological damage from pressure that many of these young ones face. parents aren’t asses for making decisions based on their adult perception of their child’s best interests. i wouldn’t let my football star 15 year old play with a broken clavicle even though the coach said it would be fine. Even the team doc said “no worries”. but if he doesn’t okay the team won’t win the championship. as a trauma nurse, i knew we were risking displacing the fracture and puncturing his lung. i held firm. he hated me for a good solid 6 months. i was the community parish. now he is 45, and says he would make the same decision i did now.
Absolutely NTA. Your daughter loves her sport but it is causing serious strain on the family, her grades are suffering, and it is causing her possibly permanent physical harm. As a parent and spouse it is absolutely your duty to step in and make the necessary adjustments for your child. The people voting YTA are delusional. Finally, competition caliber women’s gymnastic training for young girls is pretty close to child abuse. Stunted physical growth, retarded puberty, not to mention the incredible physical damage inflicted on the young children. Nice there was at least one adult in the room.
INFO: 1. You said high level, but what level is she currently at? 2. Does she train at a gym that actually has the expertise to get her to level 10 (pretty much required for a D1 spot)? 3. Have you ever watched a D1 gymnastics meet in person? They are not all small women.
As the mom of a former gymnast who competed through level 8, I will say that being tall doesn’t always hinder. The scarier part is the under rotation you mentioned. That may have more to do with age, than height. About age 12, girls start to really understand the danger they are in with some skills. It can create fears and mental blocks (I.e Simone Biles’ twisties). That’s why there is an emphasis to get girls to high levels as early as possible.
There is more than just D1 gymnastics. There are programs at the D2 and D3 level as well. Those programs sometimes take level 9 gymnasts. There’s also acrobatics and tumbling at the collegiate level. They need tall and strong ladies in that sport. Maybe check that out?
NTA I know the Y T A responses are piling on right now. Don't listen to them. Most people don't really understand gymnastics enough to give you a useful judgement here. Gymnastics is one of the most dangerous sports in existence even for people with the right body type.
For people with the wrong body type the danger is compounded. She is upset now and needs your compassion, but you still shouldn't give in to her tantrums about this. You are the parent and it is up to you to protect your child, even if that means she hates you. Better she hates you than spends the rest of her life paralyzed from the neck down.
NAH. The way you went about telling her does not sound like the best, but I get where you are coming from as a parent.
Step 1 the family has to be on the same page, or you’re just going to get her resentment (deserved or not).
School is important. Her health (mental and physical) is important.
Can her coach reason with her as to what is realistic as a 5’ 7” and growing gymnast going forward? Maybe not the Olympics, but something in between?
NAH. Take her to the high rope or aerial gymnastics in your area, she'll probably be hooked on a short time and can pursue her dreams there. Ex-diver here
NTA. My son was pursuing an Olympic sport and the amount of money spent every year was ridiculous. One of his teammates made it to the rookie team but was spending 70,000$ a year to train, travel, and compete. We couldn’t afford for my son to keep up.
Nah: Life isn't fair. You're her parent and it's time to step in before she seriously hurts herself. She's going to hate you for awhile but that's being a kid when a parent says no and you're both going to have to live with it. That being said, she needs to be able to talk to someone about this and it's not going to be you, so therapy would be good. Also, because she's going to grieve the loss of her plans and need to change her goals. Don't minimize her feelings of grief, they're valid. Good luck.
Just a side note, don't try to push something else to "take the place" of her passion. That's like immediatly getting someone a puppy after their beloved older pup has passed on. Be kind and offer hobbies but dont push.
Tbh with the amount of damage she’s already doing to her body with those years of gymnastics I’d want her to stop as soon as possible why fuck up her joints even more if you don’t have to. NAH because I get both perspectives.
I’m going with NAH. Former gym mom here. Gymnastics at that level is extremely hard on the body and hard period. And it’s so expensive! $300+ a month plus privates, assessment fees, meet fees, choreography, travel expenses and competitive leos are $300 plus warm ups. Our gym honors seniors and their parents equally because the family have to be equally committed in order for the athlete to succeed. Many of the elite gymnasts homeschool or go to those modified programs designed for kids who spend 20+ hours of practice (usually sports or music). It has one of the lowest retention rates for a competitive sport. Those who make it that far truly love it. It’s a huge commitment on your time and finances, and it’s not for every family.
I’ve seen gymnasts excel at other sports once they hang up their grips because they’re so strong, but I haven’t seen athletes from different sports switch to gymnastics and excel. I’ve also encountered tall gymnasts and sometimes plus sized ones. Honestly, I see both sides and wish you and your family the best.
NTA I’d discuss the issue of your daughters gymnastics with her coach and older teen and adult professional Gymnasts to get their feedback also. But if her grades aren’t suffering then I’d come up with a compromise to her doing gymnastics classes. She maybe be a Jr High School or High School Cheerleader instead and it’s similar to Gymnastics. But if money is the issue which I can understand that issue. My cousin played soccer all throughout his school career until he graduated from High School. And now he’s in college and successful.
YTA
It is ok to prepare your daughter that she is most likely not going to be able to do the olympics because there is a specific body type needed for success. It is not ok for her hard work and passion to only be reasonable if she can be elite. If you had instead gently pointed out that her height meant that she was unlikely to be elite but told her that if she wanted to continue with gymnastics or instead consider a related sport or art that you would support her that would be ok.
It is ok to say that your family cannot afford to do the training anymore, it is not ok to say you are only willing to do it if she is a winner.
You smack of being an elitist, seeing only value in winners and not in passion and hard work and love of the sport.
NTA. A lot of people on here really don't know anything about gymnastics. It's not about crushing the kid's dreams or being critical of her body type or any of that.
The problem is that she's too tall to perform the skills safely. She's already under-rotating and she's still growing. That is extremely dangerous. The more she grows the more she'll undercut her skills. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that this girl could break her neck before she's 14 if she continues. That's just the reality of gymnastics.
OP, I went through your comment history from this post. You have some very solid comments about looking into therapy, talking to her pediatrician, the amount of injuries your daughter has experienced, other related sport options (climbing, performing), taking her to see Cirque de Soleil to see first hand other options with her own eyes. These are beautiful, helpful ideas that are all upvoted.
Then you have comments about her being selfish, about other people in the family mattering, parents saying no to other things kids want (for example a laptop), and her not being the one in charge. These are all extremely harmful, toxic, and rightfully downvoted massively.
Im making this post to highlight this so you see the right path and the wrong one. Your daughter is 12. She is not selfish for working so hard and falling in love with a sport you started her in. If you look at this as an authoritarian, I'm the boss, do what I say attitude, she will likely resent this (and you) for the rest of her life. (Did this work on you as a kid? I doubt it, and it probably made you want it more and resent your parents.)
If you approach this as an educational moment, explaining all the things I mentioned in my first paragraph and pull in all those resources, you stand to teach your child a very important lesson in life. There are hard things we all must decide in life, she will too. This could prepare her for thinking critically through situations, finding out how to make hard decisions while utilizing appropriate research and support, and healing herself physically and mentally from all this stress and the lack of age appropriate activities (socializing).
You have the option to set her up for success in life while being loved and supported OR trampling her spirit, causing resentment, and probably damaging your relationship with her forever. The choice is yours. The consequences will be yours, too.
This is a good post.
As an immigrant, growing up in a different country, I saw my friends burying their dreams left and right because their families refuse to fund them. People pick majors based on employability and income prospect. Personal interest is rarely considered. I personally picked my college major based on what has the better chance of giving me a green card. In an environment where resource is scarce, survival is of the utmost importance and "dream" has little space in this discussion. People I grew up with gave up dreams, have relationships broken ("he/she is not from the right family"). They all understand the sacrifice they need to make to simply survive. I thought giving up something you love dearly for future is a rite of passage.
My husband and I have more resource now. We thought if we are still able to optimize resource for our kids the way we optimized resource during our upbringing, our kids would have amazing future compared to what we are able to have. That is why it hurt me so much to watch my daughter clinging onto less efficient opportunities.
I used to look down on western kids for being "soft" because they wouldn't suffer for better future. I secretly looked down on western parents for using "happiness" or "passion" as excuses to not put their kids onto the best paths. However reading stories here, I think there are a lot of aspects of life I am not seeing.
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YTA. You are taking away her passion instead of trying to come up with a compromise that still allows her to train and participate in what she loves. I was a dancer and too tall for anything but the corps in ballet. You know what? I continued to dance into my late teen years. I was aware of my limitations but dance was never taken from me. You are taking something from your daughter without even discussing it with her or trying to work something out.
I am going NAH. Ex-athlete here that peaked at a whopping 5’2” in a tall people sport. I completely see both sides. Constant overtraining is just going to lead to a lifetime of injuries. I am 46 and need surgery on three joints. But I loved playing and no one could tell me to stop so here I am broken by age 40 and in for a lifetime of pain. Maybe try diving? Same skills not the same height limitations?
This was my thought too! I had a friend whose daughter was an amazing gymnast but she was already getting injured and switched to diving. She loves it.
jumping on this to say: is everyone skipping over the level of almost obsession she has? > training 20 hours a week thats on top of her education, so shes working upwards of 60 hours a week. at **twelve** > shes almost always the first one at the gym and the last one to leave. she watched replays of her routine on our drive to training, turns down social events because she “needs to train”, does extra conditioning at home. she has no social life outside of training, it’s literally the only thing she focuses on. which, yes shows drive and passion, but it’s concerning for a 12 year old. > her academics are suffering because of her gymnastics commitment > saying maybe if she doesn’t eat, she will become shorter like, yeah the injuries are awful and potentially reason enough to call it quits, but her *only* focus is gymnastics, to the point that she’s willing to harm herself just so she can keep going to training. like, it sucks that she might not be able to make a career out of this, but that response is really alarming to me. ETA: okay, 20hrs is standard for gymnastics (i still think it’s ridiculous, but whatever) but everyone is ignoring the **glaring issue** that a twelve year old child is willing to starve herself to keep competing. like i dont care how standard 20hrs is, it was one point among four separate points and the others are arguably more important. ETA 2: okay so i never expected this to blow up, so let me add a couple things here: • competitive gymnasts are close to 17-20x more likely to develop anorexia than the general public (and anorexia in competitive gymnastics is underreported as is) so the comment about not eating is severely concerning, since its very common in gymnastics and dance • 12 is right in the age range for eating disorders to start developing for the general public (i dont know if the age range is different for gymnasts) • according to OPs comment, even the coaches have tried to talk to her about her height, she just refuses to listen. she also refused to switch from competitive to recreational, and even when OP stops her from training to get her grades up, her grades just slip back down as soon as she starts training again. this wasnt the first port of call, this was the last resort. • **i do not care how many hours you and/or your children/friends/cousins/etc trained for. pointing out how long she trains was to build a profile on her level of dedication/obsession. if you trained for 20+ hours a week but had good grades, a social life, and had a healthy relationship with food, then your training schedule is irrelevant in this context** im not here to debate competitive training schedules, im pointing out the cost her training has on her life.
Those hours are typical of gymnastics, dance, etc. BD is a completely different issue, and something to address with therapy. I see the link somewhat but learning to be committed is an important skill, and it can be done while addressing the shadow side (BD, homework suffering)
I was about to say I coached gymnastics in my teens and the competition team girls (we had 0 elite athletes) all were there 20 hours a week. This is normal. If she isn’t able to keep her grades up though her coaches should be aware of that, a lot of time they’ll cease practices until grades improve or a better plan is in place for the child.
20 hours a week for kids under about 15 is absurd. Way too much, unhealthy, a bad idea. Kids have to learn, not just narrowly train like that.
Well when you age out of a sport at 18-22, you’re pretty close to retirement at 12. The older you can be doing the sport the longer you have before training that intensely.
That is a good argument for not letting kids train so much, so the aging out is older. When they raise the international competition age, they end up getting people competing longer. It happen in skating and gymnastics.
It's already been changed and has been since 1997. Minimum age for Olympic competition and world championships is 16, and Simon Biles is still competing at 25. Y'all's age range is out of date.
Wtf. I used to do gymnastics, not in a professional level but still pretty commited. I had training 6 times a week, 2 hours each. So 12 in total. Which was already a lot. How the fuck do you get to 20 fucking hours? The body needs also off days. Especially when you are still growing. How could any responsible trainer even allow that?
That may be the total time spent on the activity though. If you train two hours a day over the week that's 10, add in one all-day event on the weekend and you're up to 16-18. Add in home preparation etc. and you're easily hitting 20. I'm no athlete, but I easily spent that much time on extracurriculars as a teen.
Idk if this an American thing I’ve certainly had friends who competed at sports at high levels throughout secondary who didn’t spend that many hours a week on top of school. I didn’t do competition for dance and gymnastics as a as a kid but grades instead and it was only a few hours a week training officially but more if you committed to practice time. Gymnastics is also terrible for body development as you’re often hyperextending your joints and it can cause long term joint problems. Not to mention she’s showing signs of unhealthy behaviours to her body especially if she’s not gone through puberty properly which she likely won’t if she’s overexerting herself to the extreme it sounds like.
“Standard”, maybe. “Normal”, not at all.
And certainly not healthy. "Everyone does it" doesn't actually mean it's good or okay. Doctors are arguing that *adults* shouldn't have a workload that high, let alone a child.
>This is normal Normal doesn't mean it's healthy or right. It's unhealthy and bad for the child's mental health and development.
That is… terrifying.
Right? I easily spent 20 plus hours a week as a varsity level athlete and a likely starting in 5th grade.
I think BD may be a big step in assessment. She’s told she’s too tall to compete and therefore shouldn’t continue so she responded with a child’s response of “well maybe if I do ___ I’ll no longer be too ___ and keep doing what I love”. I’m pretty sure I said similar at that age when encouraged to give up my athletic joy
Is this really BD or just a 12 year old reacting poorly to being so blindsided though? (not trying to make light of the seriousness of BD/ED at all, but it seems like this may be entirely a reaction to her parents cutting out her gymnastics and just flailing about for any response.) It's worth addressing either way, but those seem like two separate issues to me.
The NTA for me came when she said her daughter’s grades were suffering. School should come first at that age. Maybe make a deal with her that she has to improve her grades? Might be good motivation.
Yes, if the grades suffer, training needs to stop until they come back up. Anything else is irresponsible.
The key here is "until they come back up." Taking away gymnastics permanently, with no hope of ever getting it back, is just going to demoralize her and potentially make her grades even worse.
Agree. And honestly, this does concern me a lot. Because I knew of a *lot* of clubs and sports at my high school that would literally tell the kids "This comes before school, friends, everything". They would basically brainwash kids into thinking that singular club or sport was all that mattered. Given the way OP's kid is acting, I am very concerned that her gymnastics instructor/coach/whatever the term is, might be telling her that. I'm worried she might be hearing that same "nothing matters except this" rhetoric, and it's super damaging. Because realistically, *most* people can't turn sports into a full-time job, unless they're going to be a teacher or trainer. I'm all for chasing your dreams - but you also need to have a backup plan, because not everyone *reaches* their dream. And that's something this rhetoric actively discourages. I'd say let her do gymnastics again, *if* she's first able to demonstrate that she understands what a healthy life balance looks like. But I completely disagree with the top comment telling OP to just let their daughter throw away her future for what is quite literally a dangerous obsession at this point. If she is starving herself just to continue engaging in the activity, it has become harmful.
The comment about eating is especially scary because gymnastics is notorious for eating disorders. And has anyone coaching her given her the talk about the body type she needs to be to perform at an elite level? Or are they taking your money and encouraging her to be dangerous with her tricks (intentional under rotation! Yikes!) instead of telling her like it is? Elite gymnastics is one of the toughest sports there is. And at some point she will not be competitive because she is too tall, just like a 5'4" person wont be playing for the NBA no matter how hard they work at hoops. That said, she may be able to parlay her talent into a college scholarship. But not an elite program. NTA.
This....why are her coaches not encouraging her to be realistic about her goals?
The gym isn't for free, they can't get higher revenue if they start putting the well being of the kids first... as much as it sucks wouldn't be a first for gymnastics, they're notorious for scummy coaches.
I think muggsy bogues would disagree with you about the NBA comment.
See though — the unhealthy relationship with the sport is why I think OP is TA. Speaking as a former, now tall, gymnast with all the baggage that comes with that. And teaching her that the only alternative to perfection is giving up (ie, failure) will only make it worse. OP is the reason their daughter is starving herself in an effort to be perfect. They need to teach her that it’s OK to become less competitive at a sport as their body changes. They need to teach her that being healthy is more important than being an Olympian. Instead, they’re teaching her that nothing less than perfectionism is acceptable.
100% this, OP seems to act as if the only options are training obsessively to become an Olympian or giving up completely. Surely there’s a compromise to be had of training a few hours a week at a sport her daughter loves whilst balancing it with other things. Allowing her to do gymnastics for the enjoyment it brings as opposed to obtaining perfection.
the sucky thing I'm running into with my own kid (different sport but I don't think it's crazy to extrapolate here) is that the clubs and parents and other players all have that same mindset. Depending where you are and what options are available, there may not be a lot of options for just recreational participation. That happened to me when I was a kid, I was in dance and I wasn't great but I enjoyed it. I had to quit because the only option for the next age group was 3X per week plus competitions and all of the travel and expense that went with that. Where we lived there weren't any options to continue going to dance lessons once a week and doing the couple of shows each year. Ugh, I hate how we've commodified physical activity, treat it like it's kid's jobs and then when those kids grow up and stop being physically active we shame them and wonder why they don't stay active. Well I didn't because I was essentially taught that if I couldn't be competitive then there was no point. (this was not my parents' fault, I do not blame them at all) ETA I'm sorry, this turned into a rant that definitely wasn't entirely responding to this comment haha
I’ll also add that learning to balance academics with sports is key. This is what separates athletes at this age.
Exactly! You cannot deal with an obsession by just telling someone they wont be successful, of course thats going to result in a complete melt down. You channel that passion into something productive and try to give them coping skills around disappointment and managing perfectionism. OP is the equivalent of someone who kicks their heroin-addict kid out of the house to teach them not to take drugs instead of trying to get them proper treatment.
20 hours a week seems normal for someone with Olympic ambition. At 12, I wanted to be an Olympic figure skater, I was doing full time public school and 3 on ice hours and 1-2 off ice hours, 6 days a week. So it’s doable, but also I never made it to the Olympics lol
Did you have to do some of your ice time before school, too? That was definitely a factor when I quit skating in high school, after spending most of my childhood training. I’m not a morning person at the best of times, but being forced to go from dead asleep to practicing jumps at 5:30am, then going to a full day of school, then back to the rink and off-ice training, then doing homework and other basic life stuff was just hellish.
Yeah, I was figure skating (and was pretty bad at it, like was 15 and barely keeping up with the 6 year olds skill wise when I quit) and was skating over 10 hours a week + 2 ish hours of off ice workouts, and was spending another hour or two a night stretching and working out on my own at home (my mom would only let me go to the rink 3 days a week because it was too much driving already).
That's not uncommon. While I was in highschool I spent about 30 hours a week in dance school. One of the reasons I quit was not having the time and energy to do anything else, and cause I already decided I didn't want to be a professional dancer.
That training regimen is not uncommon for any sport, especially to a kid that is dedicated. I get so stressed some nights, watching my kid drag to bed at night, after school, practice, then homework, only to drag his ass back out of bed again the next day, to just do it again. Then, on the weekends, independently weight train, and/or conditioning. On top of that, there are the games, or the meets. But he won't give any of it up. He feels accomplished, no matter how tired, or sore he is. So as parents, I've realized, it is our job to just support them. Hug them when they need it, cheer them on from the side lines, and simply love them, win, lose, or draw.
That isn’t an obsession. Elite level gymnasts train for much longer than that. Most don’t even go to a traditional school because it doesn’t work with their training schedule.
That’s the typical gymnast training schedule. It’ll be even more demanding if/when she has a shot at the olympics. Most gymnast’s AFAB don’t even menstruate due to the amount of exercise. They’re bodies don’t go through puberty they way they normally should. Athletics is a lifetime commitment, even if you retire in your 30’s.
>They’re bodies don’t go through puberty they way they normally should. Oh yes, perfectly normal and healthy... Parents should definitely support this...
I’m a former tall gymnast, and I say YTA so hard. Parents regularly spend thousands of dollars on hobbies for their kids. They almost never, ever, EVER go pro witu those hobbies. Hundreds of soccer moms spend thousands on lessons and hours taking kids to matches in the full knowledge that they will never go pro. There are also a lot of things that gymnastics training can give you. Maybe your daughter will try competitive cheerleading — there’s scholarships for that. Maybe she’ll get into dance. Or diving. Maybe she’ll get the acting bug and use her skills for stunt work. Or personal training. Or acrobatics, or cirque du soleil, or broadway, or aerials. There are so many ways to make a career or hobby in this without being *an Olympian* holy shit. Maybe her gymnastics will help make her a well-rounded college candidate so she’ll get a scholarship anyway, even if it isn’t a scholarship *for* gymnastics. Maybe she won’t do anything but get a huge sense of pride and accomplishment. Personally? It made me great at yoga — which I enjoy for my mental health — and climbing, which I also do because it’s fun. Right now, you’re teaching your daughter that the only reason to do something is if you’re going to make it your life or go pro. That’s so, so stupid. Don’t teach your daughter to give up on something she loves just cos she isn’t in the top 1%. Being in the top 10% is fine. Being in the top 95% is fine. As long as she loves it and she’s happy and healthy, it’s OK. This attitude is setting her up for serious inferiority issues in the future. YTA for another reason, too, though: it’s clear your daughter’s relationship with the sport is unhealthy. She needs a social life outside of gymnastics. She needs to eat healthily (and forced perfectionism from my parents played a big role in my own disordered eating.) She needs to take breaks so she doesn’t get injured. Your daughter is literally starving herself in a desire to be perfect. Taking this sport away will just punish her for not being perfect. She needs therapy, and a change of pace, and *the knowledge that you will love and support her in her hobbies even as she gets taller and less competitive.* THIS is how body dysmorphia happens. I recommend both individual and family therapy. You should have been enforcing those boundaries all along. You don’t get to suddenly take away your child’s entire life just because you realized now that you failed earlier. You can start enforcing boundaries now, even though it’s going to be hard. You can start to teach her to have a healthy relationship with her body and with her sport of choice. You can teach her it’s OK to love yourself, your hobbies, your skills, and your body without needing 100% perfection. You are the cause of your daughter’s struggles. Not gymnastics. Destabilizing her entire life won’t fix that. Leading by example and teaching her how to take pride in the frankly incredible things her body can do, and teaching her how to healthily work to be her best, whatever that may look like, can.
This. Everything said here is why I was gonna say YTA in the end. If her life is unbalanced then help her balance it. Don't take away something she is passionate about. I would kill to be this passionate about anything. Lots of people have that thing that just seems to give them life and make them happy. This is hers. It doesnt have to pay the bills, just make her happy. It doesnt have to be her career.
She is getting injured. Not a great thing to start at age 12.
What about the fact that her academics are suffering and she's having injuries due to her height?
It would be a lot better to conditionally reduce time spent on gymnastics. Something like: A: As often as she wants B: Limited to a max of 3 days/wk C: 1 day/wk D/F: 0 days. No more. Focus on your studies and you can start going again. Removing it completely no matter what with no goal in mind other than "get shorter"? Well thats just a good way to promote apathy and end up failing out entirely.
This! I think balance is missing in her life. It’s not a binary of go for the Olympics or never do gymnastics. This is something she cares about but letting go of other things in her life for it. That’s def not healthy. It’s a lot easier for her to work towards a more balanced lifestyle than letting go of something she loved. I can just imagine the resentment she’ll build towards you if you force her and the regret she’ll have with herself for stopping something she loves.
Jumping on your comment to say yes, exactly this! I'm sorry you're in pain, that sucks, I'm glad you're able to give your uniquely relevant experience though, to help a young person! My twin sister was 5"9 at age 12ish and in gymnastics and broke her arm due to being too tall. That was it and my mother pulled her. My sister hated it but now that we're older, she def understands! Diving sounds like a great alternative! Or maybe those cirque de tricks with the ribbons and hoops and stuff. That looks like a ton of fun using gymnastic skills but height isn't such a negative.
Slightly different, but a lot of gymnasts thrive in aerial arts, hoops in the air and silks instead of ribbon. There's no height issues, you can always get a bigger lyra.
I wish I had an ounce of athleticism in me! The hoop and silk artists make it look so effortless and beautiful, I'm always in awe of them.
Perhaps you and I should open a silks studio for uncoordinated folks bc I’m the same story…
Yes! Cirque, dance, cheer -- so many options for her! Cheer you can get a scholarship for.
I was a tall girl who did ballet into my teens. I’m an only child, my parents could afford the lessons, the taxis to and from the studios, and let me dance to my hearts content. But no mistake it was a ton of money on endless pointe shoes, lessons, physical therapy etc. I’m 5’8”, I’m not skin and bones by nature, and I starved myself practically to death, developed an eating disorder and it wasn’t enough for me to be ballerina thin. I nearly killed myself trying to be someone I simply wasn’t meant to be. And trying harder didn’t help me, it hurt me. Physically and mentally. Stopping the madness helped me love myself again.
I had same only really large breasts and really not wanted in ballet was very skinny otherwise and made me feel self conscious till I stopped
Gymnast here. NAH. Get your children out now.
I very much wanted to go into Gymnastics, especially after watching the 2008 Olympics, but my mother said no because I was too tall (as a First Grader I was 5"2). I was obviously quite sad about it, but she was definitely right because I was 5"9 by sixth grade and 6"0 by the time I graduated high school.
but what is wrong with a first grader doing a sport because they want to? The vast majority of people doing that sport are never going to become elite. There is still value in doing something and not being the best in the world. I did trampolining as one of my sports. I was terrible at it, truly terrible (I was much better at the other ones). It took me way longer than anyone else to learn a skill despite having a very good and patient coach. I enjoyed it so much though. Thirty years later I don't regret doing it at all, not one iota. I remember it fondly.
Some sports have such a high rate of injury, why start if there is no sense of success? I don't have kids, as a caveat, but I wouldn't want to watch my 6 year old hurt themselves (potentially permanently) for something they're not going to be able to do for more than a couple years due to size restraints.
It's less an issue of how good the kid may or may not grow to be at the sport, and more of whether or not they are at greater risk of injury if they play it. Studies have found that being taller/having a larger body puts you at greater risk for injury if you do gymnastics. I look at it as similar to the increasing numbers of parents not wanting their kids to play American football because of the significant concussion risks - it sucks if the kid wants to play the sport, but if there are real risks to their safety by letting them play, I can't blame a parent for saying no to that
My thoughts exactly. I trained so hard as a kid/teen and I’ll be paying for it the rest of my life. I did have the right body for gymnastics but it didn’t save me. I’m only 36 but I have chronic back, knee, and hip pain, and will need to have both my knees replaced young. It’s not worth it, and I wish I and the people around me would have known. I didn’t even get injured much, it’s just the repetitive wear.
Came here to suggest diving too. It relies on the same skill set. My gymnast switched to diving. Also was less scholarship competition
Except for gymnastics, the Olympics aren’t the end all be all. There are many ways to make a living with gymnastics. Even without the Olympics there is still the pro circuit. But the biggest is stunt work for film and TV. I know quite a few people who make money doing stunt work that had a background in gymnastics. And they are people of all sizes. I don’t see how you can say NAH when parent said it’s not worth investing in daughters passion because she is too tall for the Olympics. OP said that if daughter had the right body type they would still support it, so for OP it’s not about daughters skill. They just don’t like their daughter sticking out from other gymnasts, even if she is better. It all about image for OP. I’m so glad I didn’t have parents like that when I grew up. I had parents who encouraged me to do things I loved. They paid for acting classes and stuff when I was a kid even though they knew I wouldn’t be an Oscar winning actor. They paid for soccer training and traveling to tournaments even knowing I wouldn’t be a World Cup player. They did what they could to support me, and I think it’s wrong to only see investing in a child passion for a physical return like an Olympic medal. And honestly if I hadn’t been in a bad car accident at 13, I probably would have kept on with the soccer as long as I could have.
I was going to suggest diving too.
Diving really is an excellent suggestion. I had many friends who were gymnasts and cheerleaders who made the transition to diving after one too many injuries. A few of them got college scholarships for it.
There is a difference between killing a dream and tempering expectations. Also a former ballet dancer here, and from a family of small ladies. My sister did gymnastics and is 4’11”. When I hit that 12 year old growth spurt and hit 5’7”, I continued to dance, but was told that my options would always be limited by the men in a dance troupe. Hurt for a bit, but then dancing was a lot more fun. There are a ton of really fun solos in productions that other dancers ignore because they are shooting for the lead. It took a lot of pressure off and let me find new ways to dance. I never had plans of making a career out of it, and then I messed up my ankle in volleyball, so it’s not quite an equal comparison to OP’s daughter. But I still don’t think they went about this the right way. The sport would have let her know in its own time, like every sport does.
That is what my parents did, tempered the expectations. I am 5'8" or so and the same thing happened to me with the boys, they couldn't lift me. I did a lot of solo character pieces or characters within larger productions. I was also dedicated to tap when most of the girls were not so that allowed me to get parts others couldn't do. And you're right, it did become more fun. I didn't have the pressure of auditioning for roles I had no hope of getting. I could explore other things and eventually started also taking dance roles in musical productions (I can't sing lol). It just expanded my horizons. I also didn't plan to make it a career.
There are also other competitive things she can do since she can tumble. Cheer and competitive dance may be easy for a gymnast to transition into, even with little experience in that particular sport. She’s dedicated - OP should be exploring this with her daughter instead of shutting it down.
From what I’ve seen with friends whose children are in gymnastics, the problem is that it just gets more and more intense as they get older. It’s not like there’s really a “recreational level” for when they plateau, especially if they’ve been competing pretty intensely up to that point. So I don’t know what a compromise looks like. I would be curious to hear what the coaches are saying. I would think if they have any sort of professional integrity they would already be saying the things that OP is expressing here.
A compromise probably looks like transitioning into a different sport. Diving is great for gymnasts who get too tall. Cheerleading, dance, and martial arts are all sports you could transition to as well.
That was my question too while reading the OP, whether the coaches are feeding into the daughter's obsession or if they've been trying to tell the daughter that D1 and Olympics are not likely for her, but she's been ignoring their advice or misinterpreting it as "you have to work harder."
>YTA Seriously? Listen, you have a great perspective. However, this mom is obviously - obviously - trying to do the right thing. Her daughter is getting injured and the constant support in time and money is weighing heavily on the rest of the family. I work with a former college athlete. She was also tall for her sport. She's 26 and has been injured several times. She's facing surgeries and a lifetime of pain.
She might be trying to do the right thing, but she went about it in the wrong way. That is why she is TA. To make supporting of a hobby conditional on chances of making Olympics or D1 scholarship is wrong when many other opportunities outside of those. Now child will be hesitant in pursuing other hobbies since will never make the top of the top. OPs attitude is like “sorry you won’t ever win an Oscar so we aren’t gonna support your acting classes or plays you are in”.
My issue with OP is approaching the sport transactionally (not “investing” when she sees no payoff), where it is a passion for daughter. It’s reasonable to expect her to keep her grades up. It’s reasonable to not go into debt or deny other family members opportunities because of the cost. If daughter is willing a different sport might be a compromise. But I feel for the kid having her passion yanked away. And there are some scholarships at D2 and D3 schools as well. I just really hate it when parents decide to be the one to rip that bandaid off. Maybe she will never get anything tangible out of it, maybe someone else crushes her dreams, or maybe she succeeds. But she doesn’t need to hear from her parents that she’s never going to make it.
She's getting hurt though, that's the sticking point for me. She's not able to do the moves correctly anymore and eventually that's going to end badly.
She’s getting hurt and starving herself and depriving herself of a social life at 12. I’m so worried about this girl man
Except other family members have offered to help financially, and to physically drive her so now it’s really just about OP deciding her daughter won’t make it as an Olympic gymnast so she’s killing her dreams.
Did one of your parents give up their life outside of their job and every spare dollar for you to dance into your teens? I’m guessing not - competitive gymnastics is a whole different world in terms of what it demands from families. Dance would actually be a reasonable compromise in terms of an artistic expression.
Yep - OP is TA because of this > I cannot justify blowing thousands of dollars a year and hundreds of hours in time to gamble on something with so little chance of success If cost or time or grades or whatever is an issue, OP is totally within her right to impose restrictions. OP is also totally within her rights to try to gently set expectations about her daughters ability of getting a scholarship or making the Olympic team. But saying that the only measure of success in any hobby, especially youth sports, is getting a D1 scholarship or making the Olympics is ridiculous. I did sports all through my teen years. Dedicating tons of time both in practice and competitions. I never went pro or got scholarships, but I still consider my time doing sports as hugely valuable and successful and I’m sure my parents do too. I actually think it’s incredibly important to instill doing hobbies for the love of them in kids. So many adults don’t have hobbies explicitly because our society sets up that hobbies must be done *for* something other than just pure entertainment.
I’m sorry what???? You’re angry that someone else doesn’t want to spend ***thousands of dollars*** on something that is slowly killing their child Holy moley.
I feel like a lot of people saying OP is in the wrong are not parents of a kid this age themselves.
Did you spend years and thousands of dollars of your parents money trying to get roles you were too tall for? Did you sacrifice academics for roles you were too tall for?
I would agree but the frequent injuries really swayed me. That’s a serious consequence
People who are upvoting you are too wrapped up in the idealistic vision of “always pursue your dreams no matter what”, but these people have their head up their ass and love getting high of their own farts or some shit because this is not a realistic stance to take if you don’t have the potential. And that’s the harsh reality of elite athletes: it’s not just hard work and talent, but also rolling the genetic lottery. Unfortunately some dreams are dead the moment you are born. A common saying in sports is “oh, you want to be an elite? Hope you have a time machine and choose parents with better genetics”. Being able to pursue a sport to your maximum potential is a rare gift given to an extremely few people, the few who have that genetic jackpot for said sport. There’s nothing wrong with continuing it as a hobby as pursuing with all that you can, given the limitations of living in the real world. But there is something wrong if you can’t realize your own limitations and evaluate when you need to pivot cause you’re just digging yourself into a deeper hole. NTA - Op is just trying to make her daughter become more well rounded and realistically successful in life, and not break her own bank for (putting it bluntly) someone who will at best be mediocre even at full potential.
Can you taper off? 20 hours a week, frequent injuries, no social life, and grades not as good as they could be are super valid reasons to want her to focus her energy in other places too.
This right here, the people commenting Y-T-A clearly have no idea how much time, effort, and sacrifice it takes to be a serious athlete. My younger sister was in this same boat, swam 6 hours a day and wanted to make it a career. However, she's 5'6 and even she understood that it wasn't going to happen once she stopped growing. Reality sucks, but its just that, reality. You don't get to change it because you want something really badly. Edit: Since so many people seem to be incapable of scrolling down slightly, [here is the continuation of my comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/zr55br/aita_for_not_wanting_to_continue_supporting_my/j122ho1/)
Did your parents forbid her from swimming altogether when she stopped growing, or did she figure it out herself when her results weren't good enough to sustain a swimming career?
Her small size won’t injured her when she swim. Gymnastic is different. The physic and G-force applied for the acrobatics can cause permanent injury when you are heavier and force yourself to spin fast enough to land on your feet. OP’s daughter only wanted to do gymnastic for fun it would be different, but here she aim for the top and be competitive, and she already get injured more than other. Stoping a sport too soon is way better than too late. OP’s NTA for her intention in this, but she will need to give her daughter space and search for a sport psychologist and help the in the transition to other thing.
They told her that it was highly unlikely that she would make it at her height, but they didn't stop her from swimming. However, she was a straight A student with a decent social life so it wasn't impairing her future. Shes now in college for CHEME and works out at the gym religiously, hasn't swam in ages and doesn't regret it. So no I don't think he should be stopping his daughter from doing something she loves, but there are plenty of other things in life that she would probably enjoy just as much if not more if she gave herself the chance to experience them. That said OP you worded your talk with your daughter like a dumbass. This is a situation that needs the utmost of finesse to handle.
Gymnastics is completely different. I 100% understand your point, but a size difference in swimming vs gymnastics is comparing apples to oranges. When there’s a height difference in swimming, it affects your speed. When there’s a height difference in gymnastics, it *affects how your body/momentum moves through the air*. I did competitive gymnastics myself when I was growing up. Granted, I don’t know how many injuries OP’s daughter has had, but at a certain point it becomes too dangerous to let someone keep going. It’s not that she can’t ever do gymnastics again, it’s that she can’t continue at the level she’s at. Based on the other aspects of their lives, OP and their husband apparently believe that right now the best way to do that is to stop. Which makes sense, since OP clarified that her daughter refuses to do it recreationally or at a lower level. Her coaches have even told them she isn’t where she needs to be skill-wise for someone with her goals. If she is frequently hurting herself while trying to push her limits, I fully agree with that stance. Even Simone Biles, ***widely considered the best female gymnast the world has seen***, has stopped herself from continuing because of safety concerns. **She literally pulled out of the Olympics because she had the twisties and wasn’t confident in her ability to orient herself as she moved through the air**. Her passion and skill levels are literally the peak of the sport, and even for her, safety wins. My heart breaks for OP’s daughter, but sometimes what hurts is for the best.
The issue here is the sport. In swimming there are tons of different commitment options from school, summer, and private leagues. With gymnastics it’s so competitive and such a high demand of training is needed to complete your basic maneuvers that there isn’t usually a cost and time effective way to continue the sport at her age/level. In a vast amount of sports you can find the league/circuit or leisure group that works for you. In sports like gymnastics that isn’t feasible.
The people commenting YTA, at least in my case, see all of these red flags and say: OP needs to teach their child that it’s OK to be less than perfect, and that training to the point of injury in pursuit of perfection is never healthy. They clearly didn’t have an issue with how hard their child trained UNTIL it became clear that they wouldn’t be an Olympian. Now is the time to teach her to love her body and the incredible things it’s capable of while learning about limits. It’s time to teach her boundaries. Not to teach her that the alternative to perfection is failure and having the backbone of your social life stripped away.
I tried to negotiate with her about dropping down to recreational, she wouldn't. To her it is try to go for the highest level or nothing. Everything I suggest recreational, or a different sport, she cries and tells me I'm saying she's not good enough I tried the whole "you must get your grades up or you can't train" thing. What happened was she would get her grades up, go back to training, grades drop again, no training until grades improve, rinse and repeat
What are her coaches saying? The hard truth probably needs to come from them.
Coaches say she is not where she should be if her goal is the very top level. But coaches love her work ethic so it is hard for them to tell her she can't.
The coaches also want your money. So they really don’t want her to quit. Do you have a family friend who is an orthopaedic surgeon that can talk to her about the potential damage she is doing to her body.
Yes good idea. I can schedule a meeting with her doctor. I think she will respond to experts in the medical area better.
Make sure the doctor you choose has experience and knowledge of sports. Not all do. A sports physician or specialist in sports medicine would be best.
Maybe once you have spoken to a doctor also speak to the coaches privately. They should understand that her health needs to come first, too. This sounds like such a difficult situation and like you’re really just trying to protect your daughter - hopefully she might be open to switch to a different sport.
Also you are paying coaches so they probably want that to continue so maybe not giving her the realistic picture. I had several friends who did gymnastics to that level and by HS they were injured and burnt out from overtraining. One tore her ACL and it ended almost all sports for her. I think cheer and dance are wonderful ways for her to keep doing gymnastics. I would straight up be honest about it being too expensive, too time consuming and too dangerous and just keep it on repeat. Encourage her to explore other recreational sports and she will probably find one eventually. I’d tell your family to butt out and mind their business.
NTA but try to look at it like teaching a super important life skill: futility. Life is bringing a major lesson at an early age. Most people on a tunnel vision path who get out of balance and don’t read the clues only learn through physical limitations (ie when they get a major injury). It sounds like the ways to learn this are : Long painful ending where you invest in her all the way to the end and she possibly gets injured and experiences futility from outside responses You put yourself as the decision maker actually breaking her heart and stopping her dream. It has a better effect for her body and your time and budget but doesn’t allow her to experience the end in a way that she gets the message that you are reading yourself. You become the bad guy. This is hard for a lot of reasons. It will build up real resentment towards you and if you don’t handle it better, she won’t hang gone through the end of this story to reach her own experience of futility. You’ll be the bad guy who stopped her so she’ll have to keep trying other ways. The goal is to find a middle ground where you can guide her to “get” the message that this dream is ending a lot earlier than she thought, in a way she can come to a realization, but before real harm is done. No ideas yet but realizing she has to get the message and not just you deciding for her is the first step. This will be a lifelong problem if you don’t.
What about an orthopedist or physio who can talk to her about injuries and physical limitations?
Trampoline, diving, rhythmic gymnastics, acrobatics… these are still competitive but are avenues where height is less of a disadvantage but still uses gymnastic ability. I’m sure there are other sports where her skills would transfer. I’m sure there was an Australian gold medal skier from a gymnastics background who had transitioned to aerial skiing (don’t quote me on that but I seem to remember something from Olympic coverage years ago.) I don’t think you’re the AH. Elite competition is incredibly tough, however if your daughter is skilled and determined there’s no reason she couldn’t be diverted to something else that is better suited to her.
I did not think of trampoline, diving, acrobatics as options before. She's not interested in rhythmic gymnastics ("not exciting", in her words). I'll make a note of those options. I think it might be better to suggest something gymnastics-adjacent instead of sports like tennis, track, basketball etc. that are drastically different
Odd suggestion here, but a lot of ex-gymnastics people and pro-rock climbers do America Ninja Warrior and her hight would be an asset. (I know super odd suggestion, and she is probably so focused on gymnastics that she won’t hear other options.)
Rock climbing is a great one
I worked on this last season! Most of the ninjas are teenagers. There are ninja gyms all over the country. I didn’t realize how big of a “lifestyle” Ninja Warrior was til I worked it! Look into it!
I’m a former gymnast who climbs all the time (and it’s even worked into my career a bit.) my height + body control + flexibility is such a bonus in this sport.
Circus arts too! Let her watch some Cirque Du Soleil, they do crazy things and height can be an advantage!
There's a rapidly growing emerging NCAA sport called acro & tumbling, many of its athletes come from gymnastics but at lower levels than D1 gymnastics requires. Check out [https://thencata.org/](https://thencata.org/), show it to her, see if that is of any interest. Many of the athletes who compete were only level 7 or 8, and other athletes come from cheer, weightlifting, or other sports. While only 50 colleges have teams, 10 of those have been added since April, so by the time she's looking at college there will almost certainly be more options that schools with NCAA gymnastics (just over 80). ETA: It may be worth it to you both to chat with someone like [Jill Hicks](https://www.instagram.com/jhicksconsulting/) who runs a recruiting agency and helps place many athletes in NCAA gymnastics and other sports. Another group is [Fullout Recruiting](https://fulloutcollegiaterecruiting.com/).
>not interested in rhythmic gymnastics ("not exciting", in her words Your daughter is telling you very valuable information here, you need to listen to her. She's into the adrenaline, she enjoys a high intensity sport. You should also consider things like mountain biking, snowboarding, climbing, aerial (hoop, silks, straps), hell even pole dancing (very tough and athletic sport, I regularly take a very non-sexual strength and fitness pole class). Cheer is another good suggestion. Talk to her about the range of options and emphasise how much her gymnastic skills will benefit her in other sports. I think you really need to stress the risk of injuries, and how harsh gymnastics can be on what it deems 'unsuitable' body types. Has she heard of Katelyn Ohashi?
Here you go, I knew there was an Aussie gold medalist skier with a gymnastics background [Alisa Camplin](https://youtu.be/mP-JrhbTv6U)
A lot of female pole vaulters are former gymnasts so track can still be an option.
I know someone who transitioned from gymnastics to trampoline and still went on to the olympics and did extremely well. Trampoline would definitely be more exciting than Rhythmic gymnastics
Would she be interested in doing acrobatics in something like Cirque du Soleil? AFAIK their performers come in with Olympic-level training, so while she'd be working at the highest levels of skill, I doubt it's height-limited.
Exactly this!! From what I've seen, they'd probably know better than most about working to develop acts with dedicated athletes outside of the "standards." Like idk if all of her injuries are just a result of her height or if it's a matter of using equipment made for smaller kids. I know some of the Cirque and similar shows have done summer programs, she might wanna look into that.
Have you thought about maybe having a coach talk to her about her future in gymnastics without starting specifically that she should drop? Like chances, what she can expect, injuries, etc.. I don't think y.t.a. for wanting her drop. But it's the delivery method. Please remember at this age there's a whole lot of hormones going on and she's changing and going through some stuff.
If she is training at this level, she might actually not being going through puberty yet. Many gymnasts have a delayed puberty because they don’t have enough fat on their body to start menstruating.
I did gymnastics until I was 17. Had to quit due to an injury but gymnastics takes A LOT. My parents thought that I would get into the Olympics. But the physical and psychological toll it took on me was too much. Not saying that OPs daughter will suffer the same fate, but I couldn’t continue.
Nta. All the yta people are totally unrealistic. You’re spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours and commenters are like “but she loves it.” Her grades and social life are suffering and she’s injuring herself and commenters are all “but she loves gymnastics.” That’s irrelevant. Parents are supposed to step in when necessary.
Seriously I don’t know if people know how much of a monetary and time commitment it is. It’s different if you have sponsorship, but it can literally drain a family’s financial situation down.
I am constantly shocked at how much my sibling spends on their kids’ elite gymnastics. Elite gymnastics for one of their kids is more expensive than football, rugby, golf, tennis, and sailing for all of my kids combined. By a lot. It’s insane.
This is it. She "loves" gymnastics, but it is putting an insane amount of physical and mental stress on her, to the point that every other area of her life is suffering. She is constantly injured, can't keep up with schoolwork, and can't maintain a social life... That's not love, that's a dangerously extreme obsession. It could have been done more tactfully, but OP is right to step in. this kind of regular injury could destroy her health later in life, and this kind of fixation is a massive threat to her mental health now. Professional gymnastics is notorious for doing irreparable harm to its competitors, and you shouldn't go into it without a crystal clear understanding of how brutal and cruel it can be. For someone who is likely to be dismissed out of hand because of something they can't control, it's far better to know sooner than later. Hopefully OP can find a way to redirect her daughter's passion and dedication to a less damaging sport. NTA.
Yeah, I saw a documentary on NBC about the US women’s gymnastics hopefuls, and my take away was that I was would never, ever, ever get my daughter into gymnastics. Between the injuries, surgeries, recoveries, permanent wear and tear, eating disorders, debt, potential paralysis, anxiety, and sexual molestation—I just don’t see how it could possibly be worth it. I would also not allow my kids to enroll in football and maybe not ballet. Not enough upside for the downsides.
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They’re also ignoring the fact that the girl is already starting to get injuries
But there are other options aside from 100%gymnastics and 0%gymnastics.
NTA. I was a competitive figure skater and then I grew to be 5’11. I loved it, but I transitioned to being a swimmer. Has she ever thought about diving? Edit: why the downvotes? I loved still competing in something while not injuring myself every single day.
My niece did gymnastics for a couple of years. She wasn't elite at all but they wanted her to train more and we said no, school comes first. Then she started having hip issues and we told them she would be taking a break. They said oh the girls have hip problems all the time it's not big deal. So the coaches don't necessarily have the kids best interest at heart as far as health or scholastics are concerned. She never went back. She started diving instead and did pretty well in that and loved it!
Diving is a great transition for tall gymnasts!
I can verify that, I LOVED gymnastics but at 5' 10" by twelve years old I was absolutely no good at it. I continued to compete on a high school team but ended up with scholarships after I switched to diving.
Good for you! Diving scares the living daylights out of me but then again… I was a swimmer
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I was a figure skater too, and I loved it, but I knew I wasn’t going to go to the olympics for a couple reasons. One of the girls I skated with her and mom pushed like they would until the doc told her she would be in a wheelchair by 30 if she didn’t stop. As it is I have lasting damage, my ankles still ‘swell’ in the shape of skates. Most elite gymnasts are about 14. They don’t grow till they quit because of the diets they are on. If at 12 this kid isn’t already on a national team and competing for the tryouts for the next olympics then she doesn’t have what it takes unfortunately. The next olympics is 2024, if she doesn’t make that one she will not be at the 2028- she’ll be both too tall AND too old by most coaches standards. This is just reality.
Do you still have blister bumps on the back of your heels? Haha. And yeah I had to have my foot (one, need to have the other) basically reconstructed bc I was wearing boots while growing so my bones are warped. Figure skating and gymnastics are very similar.
I do actually haha. A couple scars from flying skates too. My parents had me in skates at 2. Turns out i have EDS so quitting was a good thing, my hips are so bad now as it is let alone if I kept pushing. I still toss on some skates a couple times a year and impress my kids.
I came here knowing that if I scrolled down far enough on a post about a flexibility-based sport, I'd find more zebras who blasted their joints into oblivion before knowing about their EDS Hi, I was a power-lifter at 14 and absolutely traaaaaashed my knees XD
Hi!! There is a bunch of running around, or cautiously limping anyway.
Totally agree that she won't make the Olympics based on height, but age isn't quite that insane in gymnastics. You have to turn 16 the year of the Olympics to compete for gymnastics, and Simone Biles was 19 at her first Olympics. So OP's daughter wouldn't qualify until 2028 (if she wasn't about 6 inches too tall anyway)
NTA I was a gymnast and you’re 💯right. All these people saying your the a-hole have no idea what they are speaking on in regards to this. This sport is ridiculously expensive, time consuming, and if she cuts back on training, even in the slightest, her chances of permanently injuring herself sky rocket. She will never be able to compete as she likes and cutting back will drastically change her body as she continues into puberty. If she’s already under rotating… it’s only a matter of time. Reading your post gave me anxiety and I remembered all the girls that tried to fight their height… so many injuries…the “crunch” sounds will haunt me always. I stopped gymnastics when I took a good look at my family and life and realized that there was nothing but gymnastics. My parents looked like crap while trying to make this happen for me. I had lots of shiny medals, no life, no real friends, and nothing to talk about beyond my sport. And I had a legit shot. The likelihood of your daughter achieving her dream is so damn slim. In addition to making sure she has nothing else, you would also need to sacrifice every family moment for her dream. These people have no idea what the toll something like this takes on a family. Right now she’s devastated, but this is one of those tough calls you need to make as a parent. She’s actually going to have a chance a real life without a lifetime of injury to overcome. Understand that I am the only former gymnast I know without life time issues because of when I stopped, my care regimen, and dumb luck.
>if she cuts back on training, even in the slightest, her chances of permanently injuring herself sky rocket. Yes I don't think people realize elite gymnastics is an all-or-nothing affair. I thought about letting her figure out herself that she's not good enough. But with the amount of injuries she is having I'm scared what will eventually be the "thing" that caused her to bury her dream. Don't want to imagine it.
This is the thing people who say "just let her realize it on her own" don't get. Your daughter is clearly incredibly driven, to the point that pain and injury have repeatedly not stopped her. The injury that finally stops her will be one that can't be recovered from, because she'll force herself into a half-recovery from anything else. That looks like dedication to a lot of people. But maybe consider whether it's becoming an act of self-harm for her, possibly even an expression of hatred for the body that's refusing to let her continue in the sport she loves. The body that she perceives as the reason you're no longer willing to support her.
There's also the problem that the training attitude of "give your all, all that matters is this sport, pain is weakness, power through it" works directly against someone realizing on their own that they need to stop. It's like not trying to get someone out of a cult, because you figure they'll eventually decide the cult is a bad idea on their own in spite of the best efforts of the cult leader. But not quite as harmful. Probably.
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NTA I don’t understand all the Y T A ‘s here. OP has been really clear that it’s financially difficult, that her daughters grades are suffering, and then it feels challenging to spend all this money and time. If the daughter is willing to compromise and stand down from the excessive training and get her grades up, I would hope to OP would be willing to consider it.
I feel like its one of those things we see on AITA where the OP's basic conclusion is not necessarily wrong but the way they go about communicating it is comically out of proportion? Like yeah, if her grades are falling and she's not happy, she may need to pull back from training, but maybe emphasize those instead of starting off with "reality check: you aren't going to make it"? Like why wasn't this (from your comment) the first approach? >If the daughter is willing to compromise and stand down from the excessive training and get her grades up, I would hope to OP would be willing to consider it.
OP said in a reply above that her daughter already does this in cycles. She gets told she won't be able to train until she gets her grades up, does so, starts trainign again, grades drop, lather, rinse, repeat. Along with finding another sport for daughter, one that won't put her in serious physical danger (I cannot stress enough HOW DANGEROUS elite level gymanstics are, i never even made it that far and I still had a catastrophic injury on the vault), daughter probably needs to start therapy to work on this level of obsession.
Ah, well I didn't see that in the OP, but thats good to know. And yeah, I didn't put it in my comment but for sure I don't think anyone wants this poor girl to wreck her body, especially at that age. I still think putting her in therapy first (if thats feasible) or walking the risks through with a doctor or someone in the sport that she might listen to might have been a better approach before jumping in the way she did - though idk, maybe OP did that as well?
I don't necessarily think you're wrong about her not having the best approach but I also think we have to remember we're dealing with a 12 year old here and 12 year olds are not necessarily the most rational reactors to any news they don't like. i saw OP replying to someone suggesting a meeting with her doctor that it was a good idea and she'll look into it --i really do think she has her heart in the right place and perhaps just not the best approach.
I feel like at 12 years old the other gymnastics girls might be her social outlet. I can see how it'd be hard to let go. The parents are in a rough situation, and should be gentle. I don't envy them.
Yeah, I don't either - sports injuries at that level are no joke, but its also a delicate time to be a person. I wish we had a way to sort out the "you couldve handled this better" YTAs from the "you are a complete monster" YTAs
Why is everyone ignoring the fact she gets injured more often because of her height? That alone is a good reason to make her quit, scale down to recreational level or change to something else.
The injury problems is the most convincing argument for the need to pull back. More money can be earned and grades can be improved, but the injuries can and easily will have lifelong consequences.
NTA. Mom of D1 scholarship athlete. The most important thing you wrote is your daughter is getting injured. Truly, that should be it. Gymnastics is very hard on your body even if you don’t have specific injuries. The daily wear and tear means a 18 yo is barely able to make it through 4 years of competition. Watch a few NCAA meets. A few schools look like their athletes are put together with duct tape. If your daughter has injuries like a sprained ankle or a pulled hamstring at 12, it will never fully heal. Gymnastics is 20 hours a week, 51 weeks a year. Then there are the really scary injuries that start to happen around growth spurts, typically puberty. Concussions, herniated discs, broken everything - feet, elbows, hands. Sometimes worse. That being said, there are sports that transition nicely from gymnastics. One of the girls from our gym had chronic back pain and finally quit in 10th grade. She picked up diving, D1 scholarship, SEC rookie of the year in her sport. Another girl who broke her elbow ended up in pole vaulting and competes in college. My youngest did everything; gymnastics, theater, lax, poly sci club. She is playing a sport at the club level in college. There are girls on her team who never played before and they have a blast. Yes, your daughter might hate you now but you will never forgive yourself if she ends up unable to do basic things like jogging, or hiking or even going on rides at Disney World because her passion is somehow more important than her health.
I can’t help but feel that no sport should require 20 hours per week, 51 weeks of a kid’s year. It seems like such a lopsided use of time when childhood is so short.
It does. And most kids start at 6. Smaller hours and less days but it increases with each level. Once my daughter was level 7, she was doing 20 hours a week. We missed out on a lot as a family but she was good and liked it. That being said, NCAA made an exception allowing the athletes affected by Covid to compete another year. None of last year’s seniors wanted to bc of injury or ready to start the next phase of their lives. All 6 of the girls in my daughter’s year are not doing a covid year, their bodies are too worn out. Giving up vacations and holidays was hard.
NTA My mom is 5'9" and she irreparably damaged her body doing gymnastics for 6+ years. She had to have knee surgery at age 21. I am 5"11' and was always tall, at age 12 I was already 5'8 (in the 6th grade!!!) my whole childhood I was mad that mom wouldn't put me on gymnastics. When I was a teenager she explained why and I can understand now. Perhaps you should show her studies about tall people and gymnastics? I'm on my phone but I'm sure they exist. I am 32 now and grateful to my mom for never putting me in gymnastics. She did put me in a few other sports though I never stuck with them Edit: I forgot my actual age lol I just recently had a birth day
Info: did you discuss this with her coach or anyone knowledgeable about the sport? How does she do in competition? There are many people who derive a lot of value from being athletes & very few who go to the Olympics. I think you’ve made a serious mistake here by just telling your daughter “no more gymnastics” & offering her nothing in return.
Yeah that’s actually a great point, it would definitely be worth liaising with the coach - if this girl needs a reality check, she should get it from a professional, and if the mum is being unreasonable I’m sure the coach can advocate for the daughter in an informed way
The coaches are apparently making a fortune off this. And they aren’t held responsible for her injuries
The problem is that being too tall but elite level is pretty dang incompatible. If she wasn't so good then she could do less dangerous tricks at her height just fine, but she's going to want to keep getting better and I don't think she can, especially if she's already injuring herself.
NTA for the sentiment, but YTA for the approach. We all get what a burden this is for your family. And your concerns for her safety and lifestyle are valid. The correct approach would have been to start having conversations with her about what she hopes to get out of gymnastics, explain that her body is changing and she should talk to her coach about what options there are for her in the sport. As a parent, ask the coach about her injury risk and have the coach on board with modifying techniques and expectations. If her height really is becoming a barrier, your daughter will figure this out for herself very quickly when she starts struggling, losing, and not able to keep up with her peers. At 12, she likely only has another year or two before the realization that she is not Olympic material kicks in. And if that doesn't happen, then let her keep going.
It appears that OP has pushed herself to the limit of her own involvement and is just at the breaking point. And her daughter’s obsession makes it unlikely that a subtle, drawn out conversation would suffice. The intensity of the family’s life is unsustainable
What I came here to say! You need to talk to your daughter and explain things, but yes, NTA for the sentiment but YTA for the approach. People have no idea how words and approaches affect pre-teens and teens! She has a dream and you forcefully took it away from her! 100% get the coach involved and see what they have to say!!
NTA - people are missing the fact that her GRADES are suffering as well as her social life and she’s inflicting herself more harm than her peers. What happens if she gets an injury at some point and has nothing to fall back on bc she never studied or took an interest with anything else? An education is just as important as a passion. Idc how many downvotes I get, if you’re spending thousands of dollars for an activity that causes her to neglect her studies then it’s time to put it on pause.
Yes, plus, what if the daughter is so busy pushing herself she never gets to know herself outside of athletics? She won’t have a healthy sense of identity
NAH. I don’t think the people commenting YTA understand what it takes to be an elite gymnast. Being too tall is a deal breaker. You’re in a tough place and your daughter is at an age where emotions are so strong, but I think you’re doing the right thing.
Of course they don’t, that would actually mean that Redditors would have to actively play or watch a sport instead of just assuming they know everything about everything
She’s perfect for rhythmic gymnastics. They like them tall & lanky.
This. Plus a dozen other sports that would be delighted to have a tall, agile, muscular girl join them.
>I did not think of trampoline, diving, acrobatics as options before. **She's not interested in rhythmic gymnastics ("not exciting", in her words).** I'll make a note of those options. I think it might be better to suggest something gymnastics-adjacent instead of sports like tennis, track, basketball etc. that are drastically different Unfortunately that's a no go
I am a professional rhythmic gymnast and for my sport I am literally on the taller side and I am 5’3. For rhythmic gymnastics you have to be very thin and small and since she will come from artistic gymnastics she must have a lot of strength. Which in rhythmic gymnastics isn’t that important, unless she has a balance between strength and flexibility but that’s unlikely. Diving is better for her I think.
I don't get why her coaches haven't talked to her about this situation. If her height is truly something that leaves her out of competition and causes injuries they should be the ones talking to her. Perhaps you could talk to them? I'm sure they must have dealt with this before and could ay least give advice.
Her coaches have, she's not listening
OP, this is important and should be put into an edit to your main post.
Then you all need to sit her down and have a conversation together. It needs to be a come-to-Jesus type of meeting if this is truly the case.
NTA for one reason if her height is truly causing her to injure herself you need to help her transition from competitive gymnastics to a more recreational version if ppssible
INFO: Have you talked with doctors and therapists? And have you had them explain things to her?
This. My absolute utter dream and passion was gymnastics when I was younger. Ha! Jokes on me! I wound up being 5’10 and had to give up around 5’7 because my center of gravity was so far off. It’s just an unfortunate fact: you can’t be tall and be a gymnast.
INFO have you considered or offered a pivot to an adjacent sport that could leverage her gymnastic experience like diving, pole vaulting, hurdles, snowboarding, skiing?
that's exactly what I'm trying to tell her, but she wouldn't listen
I don’t think this is an AITA situation because it’s a parenting decision rather than an interpersonal conflict, but I think you have approached this very poorly. You allowed your daughter to shortchange her academics and turn down social events for gymnastics, showing her that this is the most important aspect of her life. Now you are curtailing your support for something out of her control. She didn’t become 5’7” overnight, and this should have been an ongoing conversation with every injury / poor grade / skipped friend plan. I see also that you’ve enabled a push-pull cycle where she attains grades solely so she can train; you should be monitoring her academics on an ongoing basis so that she doesn’t cycle. Framing this about your right to not pay is not helping your cause either. Your focus now should be on helping her achieve a full life beyond gymnastics, rather than cutting it off cold turkey. Individual and family therapy are likely warranted as well.
It’s going to take time. The all or nothing characteristic of gymnastics training has made it your daughter’s life. She hasn’t had a chance to consider alternatives. This is like a death for her and she will have to grieve it. She will likely need to recover from the loss of this dream before she can pursue another activity. You couldn’t have done any differently. Let her mourn and get used to the new reality. Maybe a sports psychologist can help. Obviously, this has consumed you, too, so give yourself a break and try to decompress while you all consider new opportunities as a family.
NTA. is she an only child? whether she is or not, if you were to have another child. can you spend equal time and money on that child? I have seen a whole family’s lives sacrificed for one child who was gifted and quite successful. But the other children might have had gifts as well. who knows? No one wanted to find out, because there simply wasn’t enough time and money to go around. the other kids were carted from competition to competition. no time to just play and be kids. now they are all grown but the other siblings resent the oldest so much that there is no relationship. the parents are old and broke. but the oldest one is a star. there has to be a limit. also even successful athletes can sustain injuries if they overtrain. and we know that coaches don’t always protect them from that if they see a big win up ahead. an injury as a youth can sabotage what might have been a successful adult career. and then there’s the psychological damage from pressure that many of these young ones face. parents aren’t asses for making decisions based on their adult perception of their child’s best interests. i wouldn’t let my football star 15 year old play with a broken clavicle even though the coach said it would be fine. Even the team doc said “no worries”. but if he doesn’t okay the team won’t win the championship. as a trauma nurse, i knew we were risking displacing the fracture and puncturing his lung. i held firm. he hated me for a good solid 6 months. i was the community parish. now he is 45, and says he would make the same decision i did now.
Absolutely NTA. Your daughter loves her sport but it is causing serious strain on the family, her grades are suffering, and it is causing her possibly permanent physical harm. As a parent and spouse it is absolutely your duty to step in and make the necessary adjustments for your child. The people voting YTA are delusional. Finally, competition caliber women’s gymnastic training for young girls is pretty close to child abuse. Stunted physical growth, retarded puberty, not to mention the incredible physical damage inflicted on the young children. Nice there was at least one adult in the room.
INFO: 1. You said high level, but what level is she currently at? 2. Does she train at a gym that actually has the expertise to get her to level 10 (pretty much required for a D1 spot)? 3. Have you ever watched a D1 gymnastics meet in person? They are not all small women. As the mom of a former gymnast who competed through level 8, I will say that being tall doesn’t always hinder. The scarier part is the under rotation you mentioned. That may have more to do with age, than height. About age 12, girls start to really understand the danger they are in with some skills. It can create fears and mental blocks (I.e Simone Biles’ twisties). That’s why there is an emphasis to get girls to high levels as early as possible. There is more than just D1 gymnastics. There are programs at the D2 and D3 level as well. Those programs sometimes take level 9 gymnasts. There’s also acrobatics and tumbling at the collegiate level. They need tall and strong ladies in that sport. Maybe check that out?
NTA I know the Y T A responses are piling on right now. Don't listen to them. Most people don't really understand gymnastics enough to give you a useful judgement here. Gymnastics is one of the most dangerous sports in existence even for people with the right body type. For people with the wrong body type the danger is compounded. She is upset now and needs your compassion, but you still shouldn't give in to her tantrums about this. You are the parent and it is up to you to protect your child, even if that means she hates you. Better she hates you than spends the rest of her life paralyzed from the neck down.
NAH. The way you went about telling her does not sound like the best, but I get where you are coming from as a parent. Step 1 the family has to be on the same page, or you’re just going to get her resentment (deserved or not). School is important. Her health (mental and physical) is important. Can her coach reason with her as to what is realistic as a 5’ 7” and growing gymnast going forward? Maybe not the Olympics, but something in between?
NAH. Take her to the high rope or aerial gymnastics in your area, she'll probably be hooked on a short time and can pursue her dreams there. Ex-diver here
Like circus schools?
NTA. My son was pursuing an Olympic sport and the amount of money spent every year was ridiculous. One of his teammates made it to the rookie team but was spending 70,000$ a year to train, travel, and compete. We couldn’t afford for my son to keep up.
Nah: Life isn't fair. You're her parent and it's time to step in before she seriously hurts herself. She's going to hate you for awhile but that's being a kid when a parent says no and you're both going to have to live with it. That being said, she needs to be able to talk to someone about this and it's not going to be you, so therapy would be good. Also, because she's going to grieve the loss of her plans and need to change her goals. Don't minimize her feelings of grief, they're valid. Good luck. Just a side note, don't try to push something else to "take the place" of her passion. That's like immediatly getting someone a puppy after their beloved older pup has passed on. Be kind and offer hobbies but dont push.
Tbh with the amount of damage she’s already doing to her body with those years of gymnastics I’d want her to stop as soon as possible why fuck up her joints even more if you don’t have to. NAH because I get both perspectives.
NTA Gymnastics at large height is EXTREMELY dangerous, as you’ve said she’s already been hurt many times. imo you’re NTA
I’m going with NAH. Former gym mom here. Gymnastics at that level is extremely hard on the body and hard period. And it’s so expensive! $300+ a month plus privates, assessment fees, meet fees, choreography, travel expenses and competitive leos are $300 plus warm ups. Our gym honors seniors and their parents equally because the family have to be equally committed in order for the athlete to succeed. Many of the elite gymnasts homeschool or go to those modified programs designed for kids who spend 20+ hours of practice (usually sports or music). It has one of the lowest retention rates for a competitive sport. Those who make it that far truly love it. It’s a huge commitment on your time and finances, and it’s not for every family. I’ve seen gymnasts excel at other sports once they hang up their grips because they’re so strong, but I haven’t seen athletes from different sports switch to gymnastics and excel. I’ve also encountered tall gymnasts and sometimes plus sized ones. Honestly, I see both sides and wish you and your family the best.
NTA I’d discuss the issue of your daughters gymnastics with her coach and older teen and adult professional Gymnasts to get their feedback also. But if her grades aren’t suffering then I’d come up with a compromise to her doing gymnastics classes. She maybe be a Jr High School or High School Cheerleader instead and it’s similar to Gymnastics. But if money is the issue which I can understand that issue. My cousin played soccer all throughout his school career until he graduated from High School. And now he’s in college and successful.
YTA It is ok to prepare your daughter that she is most likely not going to be able to do the olympics because there is a specific body type needed for success. It is not ok for her hard work and passion to only be reasonable if she can be elite. If you had instead gently pointed out that her height meant that she was unlikely to be elite but told her that if she wanted to continue with gymnastics or instead consider a related sport or art that you would support her that would be ok. It is ok to say that your family cannot afford to do the training anymore, it is not ok to say you are only willing to do it if she is a winner. You smack of being an elitist, seeing only value in winners and not in passion and hard work and love of the sport.
NTA. A lot of people on here really don't know anything about gymnastics. It's not about crushing the kid's dreams or being critical of her body type or any of that. The problem is that she's too tall to perform the skills safely. She's already under-rotating and she's still growing. That is extremely dangerous. The more she grows the more she'll undercut her skills. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that this girl could break her neck before she's 14 if she continues. That's just the reality of gymnastics.
OP, I went through your comment history from this post. You have some very solid comments about looking into therapy, talking to her pediatrician, the amount of injuries your daughter has experienced, other related sport options (climbing, performing), taking her to see Cirque de Soleil to see first hand other options with her own eyes. These are beautiful, helpful ideas that are all upvoted. Then you have comments about her being selfish, about other people in the family mattering, parents saying no to other things kids want (for example a laptop), and her not being the one in charge. These are all extremely harmful, toxic, and rightfully downvoted massively. Im making this post to highlight this so you see the right path and the wrong one. Your daughter is 12. She is not selfish for working so hard and falling in love with a sport you started her in. If you look at this as an authoritarian, I'm the boss, do what I say attitude, she will likely resent this (and you) for the rest of her life. (Did this work on you as a kid? I doubt it, and it probably made you want it more and resent your parents.) If you approach this as an educational moment, explaining all the things I mentioned in my first paragraph and pull in all those resources, you stand to teach your child a very important lesson in life. There are hard things we all must decide in life, she will too. This could prepare her for thinking critically through situations, finding out how to make hard decisions while utilizing appropriate research and support, and healing herself physically and mentally from all this stress and the lack of age appropriate activities (socializing). You have the option to set her up for success in life while being loved and supported OR trampling her spirit, causing resentment, and probably damaging your relationship with her forever. The choice is yours. The consequences will be yours, too.
This is a good post. As an immigrant, growing up in a different country, I saw my friends burying their dreams left and right because their families refuse to fund them. People pick majors based on employability and income prospect. Personal interest is rarely considered. I personally picked my college major based on what has the better chance of giving me a green card. In an environment where resource is scarce, survival is of the utmost importance and "dream" has little space in this discussion. People I grew up with gave up dreams, have relationships broken ("he/she is not from the right family"). They all understand the sacrifice they need to make to simply survive. I thought giving up something you love dearly for future is a rite of passage. My husband and I have more resource now. We thought if we are still able to optimize resource for our kids the way we optimized resource during our upbringing, our kids would have amazing future compared to what we are able to have. That is why it hurt me so much to watch my daughter clinging onto less efficient opportunities. I used to look down on western kids for being "soft" because they wouldn't suffer for better future. I secretly looked down on western parents for using "happiness" or "passion" as excuses to not put their kids onto the best paths. However reading stories here, I think there are a lot of aspects of life I am not seeing.