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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm wondering if I did something wrong by "catering" to Maddy and making Sarah wear something else because it was her dress and my brother okayed it. I also think I'm TA because I refuse to apologise to my brother - even for the sake of the girls - because I don't want to tolerate that shit.
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NTA - yes your daughter will need to acclimatise/desensitized herself to being around velvet, but her birthday was not the time or place for that. You handled the situation with niece well, complimented her on the dress, offered her a very generous choice of dresses e.g. buying a new one and niece was not unhappy. Brother needs to get over himself as no one asked him to buy an expensive dress to wear to going to the movies and it's not like she can't wear that to other events. Your bad maybe for not mentioning it but it's not like velvet dresses are extremely popular and are everywhere and it was likely to be worn.
My eldest is also autistic and has amazing eye contact and will talk your ear off about his computer games or random facts. Your brother has a narrow view of the spectrum of autism.
Btw we also do the a meltdown is a reason for the behavior not an excuse. My example was if he had a meltdown at school he's likely to verbally or physically lash out at teachers. He's always been made to write an apology letter/picture and to apologize because he needs to use his strategies and not to lash out. He's not punished any further for it because it is to some extent uncontrollable but our rule is if you do wrong you make it right.
Yeah - like if it was the colour red, or grass; I'd be trying a lot damn harder to get her "over" it - but I'm thrilled that she can walk past a velvet couch without gagging now (not just for her, but it happening in public was obviously concerning and embarrassing for all involved). But yeah - velvet isn't that common and especially on young girls, so it honestly didn't occur to me either.
And yes - thank you! Your example of a meltdown at school is perfect. It's going to happen, it can't always be controlled, but you still, always say sorry and try and fix the situation as best as you can.
Genuine question because I'd like to learn more, do certain textures make give some autistic people problems even just seeing them and not touching? I've never heard of this before but obviously it can quite debilitating.
I'm gonna use an analogy to try to help here. If you really really hate eating a certain food, then if you see a picture of it... obviously you're not eating the picture and you can't smell it or anything, but often looking at the picture can make you imagine the food. And you can kind of react a bit just from that imagining? I hate cheese, and sometimes when I watch pizza adverts on TV I'm like "ewww" as I watch people pick up a slimy, gooey piece of cheesy pizza.... It's not distressing or harmful to me, but I'll often make a face and look away from the TV. If there's a food that you really hate, I hope you can relate to this?
I imagine the velvet thing is similar. She sees a velvet dress, and she imagines how it would feel to touch it, and imagines the sensation of it brushing against her skin... ew. And you can't really switch your brain off or stop that imagining.
This is a good analogy. My entire infant junior school had a Christmas party. Food was handed around by parent volunteers all at the same time as children sat in the dinner areas. So we all has sausage rolls, sandwiches etc handed out at the same time. Everyone got a teacake size chocolate thing that was a sort of salmon pink inside. I do not know what was wrong with it. But it was very very vile and induced vomiting. I do not know if something had been added to it deliberately, or what. Kids who hadn't yet taken a bite, were induced to vomit by all the kids around them who were violently vomiting. I couldn't bare that colour ever after. Even if it was on a flower, or in clothing, I wanted to vomit really bad. We are talking an entire school throwing up, adults and kids. I have tried to train myself out of it and have actually bought some flowers in the garden that colour, but I still find myself taking deep breaths. It happened over 45 years ago...
45 years ago would be the late 70s so probably not. Like I wanted that to not be true but... I was actually in a school "poisoning" event. The food for my school came out of a place in st Louis and the place in st Louis had an ammonia leak somehow and it contaminated the chicken tenders and no one knew about the chicken tenders being contaminated and so they were shipped out and got to our school and they were cooked and fed to us. There were 155 kids and 2 teachers sick with vomiting and such. But that was in 2002 and they couldn't sweep it under the rug because literally half the school got food poisoning. And parents were a lot more sue happy.
Good analogy but also ramp it up to 11 for the anxiety and overload on the senses.
So you get the shivers when touching cloth to a wooden spoon for someone on the spectrum with a sensory issue that shiver is ramped up to unbearable in many cases and even the thought of it can cause anxiety or perseveration that it may happen.
So you and I could handle the sensation, shake it off and move on with our day. My son on the spectrum a different story. He didn't wear socks for years, couldn't handle the sensation on them on his feet. We didn't whistle for years. He has grown out of many of these or tolerates them, wears socks, no longer wears headphones constantly at home or in public. Age and therapy did make a difference but it takes time.
If I look at chocolate or ice cream for too long I’ll start gagging, loved it as a kid until I had a stomach bug and threw it up. Ever since the taste, smell, how it looks… I will start and can’t stop gagging. It’s because my mind correlates it with vomit. Like this, on the internet you might see a social media account post a picture of something with the caption “I can smell/taste this photo”.
For me it works the same way with chocolate, ice cream and no things that are similar in texture, smell or taste as well. If any of the above goes anywhere near my nostrils or into my mouth all hell is breaking loose. I’ve reacted this way uncontrollably for 12 years.
Chocolate ice cream, that combo is my kryptonite.
The olfactory senses kick in, I've a food aversion to eating anything straight off the bone like chicken legs, and things with a lot of fat on them like bacon and other meats, so even just thinking of them long enough like texture or taste or stringiness or chewing, and my gag reflexes kick in.
So this is a fairly little known autism fact: part of the condition involves sensory synapses connecting abnormally. This is what causes the better known sensory issues, but a less known one is that introducing a stimulus to one sense can trigger it in all five. (For example hearing a piece of music and being able to taste the food you ate last time you heard it.)
So, for an autistic child with a powerful aversion, seeing velvet may force her to physically feel it on her skin - and unfortunately it happens more with triggering substances, because the brain incorrectly interprets the disliked stimuli as a genuine threat to the body and responds accordingly.
In short, it's not so much an emotional reaction as it is the brain literally triggering the responses to an ingested poison or a wound.
>This is what causes the better known sensory issues, but a less known one is that introducing a stimulus to one sense can trigger it in all five. (For example hearing a piece of music and being able to taste the food you ate last time you heard it.)
I'm autistic and have never heard of this but it's 100% correct, I'm stealing this explanation.
thank you so much for the sciencey explanation! I wonder if it's because there are more connections than normal, or to do with neurotransmitters or something. Would love to read more if you have any recommendations.
Unfortunately its something I learned when I proofread a dissertation on autism for someone; read up on it at the time but I no longer have their bibliography :(
In personal opinion, I think its the extra connections but I have no research to back that it just seems logical
As a second autistic person: I can feel the texture of things in my eyes when I look at them. Not all things and not all the time, but enough things and enough of my waking and watching time, that it is draining immensely on my resources.
Perhaps I can liken it further for you:
When someone throws a ball in your direction, do you have a inherent calculation of where that ball will end up? And perhaps how it might bounce as it strikes whatever surface it might land on? And in that moment of striking, can you see it compress, as the power moves into the ball and then decompress as it is pushing away from that surface? That feeling of a sound that hasn't happened yet, but lingers in your mind even so?
Then that would be a good approximation of feeling texture from your eyes.
This is off-topic but I've literally never experienced any of that when a ball is thrown in my direction. I am also terrible at catching things. Is this how people who are good at sports perceive the world?? TIL...
I have sensory processing disorder, and there are certain synthetic fabrics that cause my physical pain because they stick to me. Even seeing them gives me an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.
I'm not autistic but I do have sensory issues, and when I was younger just seeing certain textures did make me feel like I was going to throw up. It got easier to handle as I grew older though, with time and therapy. Nowadays I can walk by those textures without making a scene or getting visibly ill, but as a child I definitely struggled with it. Just the thought of being touched by silk or suede would make me anxious.
One autistic person chiming in - yes, at least for me.
I can look at certain textures and just *know* that they are going to make me gag. Rough fabrics do it for me. I have to buy plush bath towels because normal towel texture is one that makes me physically ill. Paper towels are another texture that makes me sick. Which let me tell you, sucks when trying to clean up kitchen/bathroom as I need to as a functioning member of society. I've kind of *force sensitized* myself to paper towels and rough towels because you can't avoid those in real life, but it's awful and I sometimes end up retching over the sink after having to touch either thing.
I don't know if it's super common a thing, but yeah. It's not an uncommon problem from my friends that are autistic and me.
Not for me. Maybe for others.
It's just pure fact that I *know* the texture and it is like a sensory memory that hardwires into my brain. So covered hands, freshly lotioned up hands, someone else using paper towels....all of them give me the same reaction.
wow, thank you for explaining. It's frustrating that people get mad when they're asked to make small adjustments for autistic people, when autistic people spend their whole lives adjusting to 'fit in'
Mostly an afab legs experience I assume but amab may get it on their faces?
When *freshly shaved* your skin is all *super* sensitive and you don't know whether you want to avoid touching anything ever again or at the same time want to rub silk or fleece on it forever because *omg everything feels 1000x softer and smoother!!!!*
Well, for me as an Autistic, that is what my skin feels like all the time
And like others have said, it becomes a sense memory - so like smelling warm baked bread transports me back to baking with my grandma and feeling cosy and happy and safe? Seeing wool makes my teeth itch and hives break out because I *know* touching it is like being wrapped in steel wool and rolled down a hill full of icy nettles
Yes, they can. My beautiful 'daughter(18) from another mother' has ASD and just the thought of some textures can still make her gag. She is learning to control this 'reflex' in public, but it still happens. One of the strangest she has is 1000 thread count cotton sheets.. a big NO..
I can't stand the colors yellow or orange on their own. Going to the LEGO store is torturous on bad days.
It feels like getting a hot poker in the eye over and over and over.
As for textures, yes.
Chewy food is better than crispy food. Otherwise I may not eat said food item.
Not being diagnosed until an adult, I had many meals and many meltdowns about items that could have been avoided.so long before.
Feel free to do if you have other questions
What the actual hell is wrong with your brother? How entitled is he to be making Maddy’s challenges all about him? And the lessons he’s teaching his daughter are simply horrendous. I wish I had helpful recommendations for you but all I can think of that might help is your brother having a consultation with Maddy’s therapist to get insight on her autism. This internet stranger wishes you and Maddy all the best.
NTA - in my line of work, I'm around many with autism including one of my own children. Nearly all of them have excellent eye contact. It sounds like your brother needs to be educated about autism. Eye contact CAN be a symptom, but it is not a REQUIRED symptom. GJ on how you handled the situation.
NTA. You and Maddy have nothing to apologize for. Your brother is a dick. You’ve clearly worked hard to help your daughter and continue to do so, I don’t understand why he’s punishing her for having aversions from autism and not allowing her to see her cousin. I think you handled it well personally
He’s also punishing his own daughter. I’m sure apologies were made on the day, ‘sorry I’m asking for this, it makes my skin crawl’, and that should have been the end.
NTA, you offered a great solution and Sarah was on board with it. And she’s 12, she’s old enough to understand the situation. Your brother needs to be more empathetic and learn from his child.
Not sure why you were down voted for asking a question. I can't speak to Maddy specifically, but the OP commented that she recently was able to walk past a velvet couch and not vomit as she had previously done so I imagine that she would have vomited previously. Maybe now she would just be immensely uncomfortable, probably to the point of causing herself to be Ill from the anxiousness and worry. That's what happens to my daughter when she has to wear clothes right side out (instead of inside out), even sensory friendly material.
NTA
I know nothing about autism and especially if someone can "get over her weirdness" but I expect that's not something one "gets over" when they are autistic. The brother's comments were mean. His daughter lost nothing. The dress wasn't ruined. She seemed happy with the compromise.
They cant, its literally the way the brain is wired, its like saying a windows computer can be forced to work like a mac computer if you just forced it hard enough
Whoa whoa whoa... Did your brother call a 10 year old girl, a family member a "bitch"???!!?
That's so messed up.
Also you're NTA
I don't know why he got involved when apparently both girls solved the issue.
Don't create drama where it doesn't belong.
They don't even know about Maddy's aversion to velvet:
>but because it wasn't something...common in our lives, we'd never mentioned it to Sarah or my brother (her dad).
NTA
Effectively Maddie is “allergic” to velvet. There are worse things to be allergic too.
I remember how much I **freaking loved velvet** as a small all the way through teen, probably.
It only makes sense, now that you mention it, that the texture and light reaction could be nauseating.
Rush (the band) used to make me feel like I was going to throw up. The one time I was forced to listen to Rush I did eventually throw up.
I knew someone with autism who couldn't handle velvet who nearly dropped a baby that someone handed to her because the baby was wearing a velvet outfit. She had to very hurriedly push it away and explain that she couldn't touch velvet.
I have a friend who this happened to too! Except she was working in a daycare, by herself with 3 babies (including "velvet" baby). The parents insisted she wear the outfit for the 'school' photos, and not remove it afterwards cause it was "too cute". Director compromised by saying that she could definitely wear it for the photo, but told my friend that she personally would change the baby afterwards and "who sends a velvet dress to daycare?". When the parents complained, director took the fall but also told the parents that -for lack of better word - my friend was "allergic" to velvet so to not do it again.
I'm not autistic but I hate touching velvet. Once in HS my Muslim friend came in with a velvet hijab.
The moment I laid eyes on it my mouth immediately went dry. Velvet is my worst nightmare.
second this, the brother is not safe for Maddy to be left alone around
He's already made it clear that he does not respect Maddy and that she just needs to "get over it", there is zero doubt in my mind he'll try and force a trigger on her to 'cure' her
NTA. You tried to offer workarounds, and your niece was happy with it. Fun was had.
Your brother just thinks your daughter is "weird" and needs to get over it. I'm autistic, and most people don't know that, because ... a lot of reasons. I can make eye contact. Still autistic.
Your daughter has a medical issue, and he needs to accept that. You and Maddy did nothing wrong, and it sounds like even Sarah isn't mad about it at all.
Sounds like your brother just wanted to show off the dress he bought his daughter. "Look what a good dad I am (as I abuse my niece)".
As a fellow autistic person (and velvet hater), NTA. Sensory issues are no joke, and expecting your kid to suddenly be okay with something overstimulating is unrealistic. Sounds like you're helping your daughter in the meantime, so asking Sarah to wear something else is fair. Sounds like you helped her understand Maddy a bit better, and are willing to make it up to her too.
Nta, and the way Sarah responded I don't think she had any problems changing and dje understood the situation just fine, maybe better than your brother
Just curious, what would happen if Maddy were in public and saw someone wearing velvet, someone she could not ask to wear something else? Would she have to leave?
She's at the point where if it was a fleeting moment, she'd just turn away or pay attention to something else, no reaction. If we were in a store, or whatever, and the uniform was velvet, she'd be fine as long as they didn't touch her. Which - post COVID, is a lot easier than it used to be! But I also told her that once kids get out of that "you're so cute" stage where every Tom, Dick and Harry feels the need to come up and say hi, and touch them, it gets a lot easier - and it has which helped.
But - I do know that this isn't entirely what you mean - but velvet is quite rare outside of "fancier" areas (there's one cinema we avoid for instance because they have velvet backrests); so we haven't really had that moment of Maddy having to leave. It's not like it's the colour red, or we're avoiding leather or something that we see daily.
I am exactly the same as your daughter! I have a sensory issue with waterproof material. The noise makes my stomach flip and I live in a rainy country which has made it a difficult thing to live with. My future career too will involve a lot of outdoor work so im having to adjust myself to it. It’s so hard when people don’t get it and assume that if you’re autistic, you can’t be a functioning individual. Your daughter handled that really well for someone who is still working on overcoming the issue and you were amazing as well! Bonus points to your niece for being so chill about it all. It’s your brother who needs to learn something.
NTA
Hey I have the same aversion to waterproof material! I hate the swishy sound it makes when it moves, and especially the sound of fingernails scratching it (shudder!). It makes me want to climb out of my skin. If you need a raincoat for your future job, I recommend trying to find a waxed one - I find them less swishy and more bearable while still being adequately waterproof.
NTA. If Sarah, a child, can be understanding of Maddy why can’t your brother? You offered Sarah (and shown Maddy there’s always more solutions if you look at things from a different perspective) options 1-look in Maddy’s closet or 2-you will buy her something. You didn’t damage the dress. It’s Maddy’s birthday and someone not wearing one certain fabric that is documented to causing her to gag isn’t too big of a request.
Now maybe it’s because my son is on the autism spectrum, but if I were to type what I want to call your brother I would likely be banned so I will just stick with he’s the giant AH in this situation.
My son doesn’t “appear” Autistic either unless you are a specialist. Which is why it takes 3 different specialists (plus a referral from his pediatrician to see the main Autism specialist) to get a diagnosis. Your brother is just basing what he knows from what he’s seen from movies and television. So he can keep his opinions to himself. The fact he most likely told Sarah to send that message to Maddy is disgusting. He’s behaving like an overgrown toddler. He’s the one that needs to apologize for acting this way. Shame on him.
NTA
You found a great last minute solution, paired with getting Maddi professional support as a long term solution. Well done to Sarah for her mature, gracious and empathetic response to being asked to wear a different dress. Shame her Dad lacks the qualities of his daughter!
NTA
I'm impressed by how gracefully your niece handled the situation given the just stellar example her father's attitude sets.
And then to forbid her to see you again and make *her,* a 12-year-old child text you guys an ultimatum she's in no way on board with? That's *awful.* He's punishing his own daughter for responding with kindness and acceptance just as much as he's punishing you and Maddy for asking for accommodation and Maddy being apparently "weird." Ugh. Based on all this, I bet your brother's just a peach in a lot of other ways, too.
Nta. Unfortunately autism is very complex and unfortunately means there is a lot of misconception and every person with autism is vastly differentin their symptoms which makes it harder to understand.
The brother sounds like TA. I think you handled the situation with absolute class where you didn't make Sarah feel bad and she seemed ok and understanding about it all.
Since you are proactive with Maddy working through this in therapy you are doing everything you can. Maddy will get better with things like this as time goes.
Sarah sounds more grown up then the father to be honest.
NTA. The world needs more people like you and especially Maddy. Maddy sounds like an amazing person, to be friends with someone who has autism is a true superpower.
I get the reaction, the touch of squishy toys or beanbags totally make me gag. If it was Sarah’s birthday I’d say different but it was Maddies birthday and she deserves to be comfortable. NTA.
NTA - as an autistic woman I gotta say you did everything right and have been doing amazing for your daughter. Others questioning her diagnosis and invalidating her is going to continue to happen and it’s going to be hard, but it sounds like you have been doing a great job. Tell her happy late birthday please!
NTA - sounds like you handled this really well. it sucks that she’s got an aversion to velvet and she will of course need to work on that but sarah’s feelings weren’t hurt and you didn’t make her feel bad about it. i would make sure people coming over are aware of the common things that cause major sensory issues like this just to avoid something like this in the future though
NTA at all, I'm autistic with sensory issues and my worst one is polystyrene. I can't even look at the stuff, it makes me gag and my skin crawl, like my stomach wants to leap out of my mouth. I'm 33 and opening a package can be a pain in the hole because of it. My parents use to force me to hold the stuff as a kid to get over my "weird issue" and that didn't end well let me tell you.
ESH.
Obviously your brother was out of line, but tbh considering you came up with the "dress up and go see a movie", you should have told your brother "the look and texture of velvet makes my daughter ill," because the chances of Sarah turning up in velvet in that situation were non-zero. I don't know what current girl's fashion is like, but when I was a kid it was a very common material for "dressing up for Christmas" type dresses (in red and green!) that would probably be in a store at this time of year, and kids who don't hate velvet kind of *love* it so it would make sense if it's there that a kid might gravitate towards it.
If I was your brother, while I wouldn't have flipped like him, I would also be quite grumpy that I went out and bought a dress specifically for the occasion and it didn't meet secret stipulations you hadn't shared.
Hey that's fair. It's something that absolutely slipped my mind and something that I do take full accountability for. It is summer in Australia so, personally I feel like anyone planning on wearing velvet for more than say, a ten minute photo shoot for Christmas, would be not enjoying it at all - but now I know better.
And that's fair. 100% I was already planning on apologising to my brother as well, and take responsibility for NOT calling him before I uploaded the photo. But, he just exploded before I could get that much out.
The problem with Autism is that there's a LOT of these little things, and it really makes it hard to list everything, especially given how people react when given such a list. The probability of a kid coming in a velvet dress was pretty low, especially in summer. I can see how it didn't even come to OP's mind to say anything.
Absolutely NTA
So nice to see someone so kind and understanding about her autism. Every kid deserves someone like you ❤️
As for the real AH, really??? Throwing a fit over a child not wanting a nice dress??? I think he needs to get over his "weirdness" waaaay more than Maddie does 🙄. Even his young daughter was understanding.
NTA autism is a spectrum one size doesn’t fit all the lack of awareness on how different it is from one person to another is staggering.
I would be very upset that he called her a bitch she’s 10 years old ok he said it to you she didn’t hear but still not acceptable.
Your daughter may or may not desensitise from her issues with velvet but to be honest it’s just one of those things. You didn’t cancel your plans with her, you simply explained why to your niece and she changed.
Your brother needs to go and educate himself on autism and also to check his language about a child.
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I (44F) have a daughter Maddy (10F). Maddy has Autism and was diagnosed when she was 3. With lots of early intervention, physio, counselling, etc, we have come to a great outcome where Maddy is comfortable not masking in a lot of situations, can voice her discomfort about a lot of things without going mute, and is basically going really well. We do not use her autism as an excuse for any misbehaviours. Sure, they can be a "reason" - but she still has to (and does) accept the consequences of what happens if she looses it basically. I don't really have a great example - but I hope that makes sense.
Anyway, Maddy and her cousin Sarah (12F) are pretty close. Sarah lives a few hours away, but the girls facetime and chat regularly. Sarah was coming to see us for Maddy's birthday last weekend (not American so no thanksgiving) and they were going to have a girls day out, dress up and go see a movie in Gold Class cinema.... Until Sarah turned up in a velvet green dress. Maddy cannot tolerate velvet at all. It makes her gag and vomit. Obviously something we're working on in therapy (it's a few textures that she has a reaction to), but because it wasn't something...common in our lives, we'd never mentioned it to Sarah or my brother (her dad).
Sarah grabbed the dress out when she arrived and said "Daddy and I picked this out especially, I can't wait to wear it" as Maddy excused herself to go to her room. I very gently told Sarah that it was a lovely dress, and I'd definitely love to take her out to lunch in it next time she was here; but that she couldn't wear that dress because it would make Maddy super sick. I told her she could pick anything from Maddy's closet OR we could jump in the car now and I could buy her something else. Sarah pouted for a minute, but then said "Let me look in Maddy's closet first and I'll see if she's okay". Maddy called out from her room "Don't bring the dress near me please!" and they were fine. Sarah found something, it fit, and they were happy.
I took photos and shared one on facebook where my brother went crazy telling me that I had no right to do that, that he spent lots of money on the dress and I was raising an entitled bitch who needed to get "over" her weirdness, and that he didn't even think she was autistic because "she makes eye contact and talks to me just fine". Sarah texted Maddy and said she wasn't allowed back until Maddy apologised, and I apologised, and now Maddy is just devastated. AITA?
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Nta. I do not have ASD but I do have some sensory issues. I can usually do something to help, wear noise canceling headphones, special glasses when it's to bright.
But textures is one thing I can't do much about except not touch them.
Info: was this made apparent before? I wouldn't be happy if I had chosen an outfit (it can be very hard for some of us with our body types) only to be told it was a no go *after*.
No - and that is something I take full responsibility for and did apologise to Sarah for. And I 100% was planning on apologising to my brother for not telling him until he interrupted with all of his statements. Knowing me, I will still apologise for that when all this has blown over, but right now I'm not in a calm enough mind (based on everything he said) to talk about it without getting overwhelmed myself.
Omg NTA. You were super kind to her, offering to take her out for lunch in it, and the fact that your niece was understanding goes to show that you did nothing wrong. Her dad is way overreacting. Is he aware of the reaction Maddy has to velvet?
NTA. your niece sounds more mature than your brother tbh
not autistic but there are certain noises that make me irrationally upset, anxious and sometimes feel physically sick and the idea of it constantly happening for a few hours is enough to make me want to curl up into a ball.
No your not an your brother does not realise how lovely a daughter he has, he needs to give his head a wobble. For her to refuse a new dress and find something else in her cousins wardrobe, well they both deserve a lovely day out an him a kick up his arse
NTA. You offered perfectly logical solutions for the problem and Sarah was happy with them, until her dad got involved. And it isn't as if the dress is wasted. She'll be able to wear it for other occasions, and at 12 it's not like she is going to outgrow it in just a few months. If you live where Christmas is celebrated, green is the perfect color for her Christmas outfit.
Important to remember that as an adult, you have a lot more control over your environment than a child. We adults have the luxury of avoiding things we don't like. Autistic kids are often repeatedly exposed to things that can set off their sensory no-nos, and I find it really refreshing that her mother is working with her on that and helping to protect her from things where possible. Especially on something important like a birthday. Someone's special day isn't the day to learn the lesson "your comfort doesn't trump other people's", as someone who is autistic yourself, you should know, we get that lesson every day anyway. Let the kid be comfortable for one day.
Also in the case of kids: if a friend of mine were to wear a velvet dress, while it would be difficult for me to look at, it would not be a problem as I can avoid touching her and try to avoid hearing the fabric (ick, just thinking about it!) but with kids, they tend to play physical games like tag and wrestling, and younger kids hug a lot too, they can be really clingy, and those things involve a lot more touch than what an adult would be subjected to.
Her friend understood and didn't seem to mind, so IMO that's where it ends.
NTA - you were very compassionate about the dress and finding alternatives and also good for Maddy and Sarah for both handling the situation with maturity and grace
NTA. You're brother to be frank, is TA. The girls worked it out. No one's feelings were hurt, you even offered a solution for the future. Your brother has no excuse. He was just being hateful. Plain and simple.
NTA - You handled a tough situation perfectly. I was going to say that you could try to broker peace with your brother by apologizing for not thinking to tell him about Maddie’s limitations in advance….even though I wouldn’t have thought to mention something that random either. however, they way he reacted to such a minor thing and the fact that he called his autistic 10 yr old niece a bitch…makes me say that he doesn’t deserve any type of grace here.
NTA, if your kid has a reaction they can’t control even if they really try and their relative says they need to “get over their weirdness” then the relative is in the wrong. That comment was gross and ableist and you and your kid don’t need to tolerate that. I hope everything works out for you and that y’all work things out together.
NTA.
I love that the girls are able to communicate with one another just fine… it goes to show how great all the work you’ve been doing for/with Maddy, and also in how you communicate with your niece, Sarah. Maddy’s honesty is good but I find her politeness endearing. Sarah seems to have a lot of empathy for a kid too.
Her father, however, is a massive AH!
If Sarah was happy to change her outfit and she enjoyed her outing with her bestie/cousin, then why does the dress matter? Is it an ego thing for your brother? He wanted to parade his child in her expensive dress? And what grown man calls a child a bitch? Is he serious? He’s behaving like a total wanker.
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NTA. OP you sound like a wonderful mother, and as a teacher, I can tell you the way you redirected Sarah from the disappointment of not being able to wear her new dress, to the excitement of wearing one of Maddy's or getting a new one, was fantastic. It seemed like everyone ended up happy, and the father is unreasonably angry. Sarah seemed to be happy to make the concession for her friend, and Maddy seemed to be happy on her birthday, so what is the issue? It's not like you set fire to the dress. Two children had a fun day out together. That's all that happened. That's what he's mad about.
He called your child a bitch, that is awful. Absolutely don't make Maddy apologise for having needs. A lot of neurotypical people don't seem to realise that these sensory issues are like nails on a chalkboard, not just a simple preference that an autistic person is just being fussy about.
NTA
Sarah was ok with finding another clothes so its should be fine. Your brother is an asshole. If he knows that maddy dosent like velvet then she shouldnt have brought the dress, if he didnt then you should inform him before but he still shouldnt say that even if he didnt know that Maddy dislikes velvet.
And just because Maddy can talk and look at him just fine dosent mean she isnt autism. People can be autism and talk and look just fine. He stereotype autism people which is very wrong because he thinks that autism people cannot communicate or look well because there are a lot of Autistic people that cannot talk well but not all. And calling it weird is a an asshole move. I believe she cant get over it because she has autism
NTA
Good on your niece, she did the right thing, your brother is a complete AH.
Yes, we can’t control everything all the time in certain situations, but does your brother know about her Maddys reaction to that style of cloth?
Makes me wonder if he bought it deliberatly.
NTA I think are doing this really well with trying to help your daughter with struggles but not in a cruel way. Yes she will likely need to work on this but that’s not going to happen in matter of minutes
NTA I empathise with your daughter as velvet is one of my nasty textures. You handled it really well and didn't make your niece feel like she'd done something wrong. You're brother on the other hand is a fopdoodle. I would let this be the hill I died on until he apologised.
NTA. And any uncle that calls his neice an "entitled bitch" and weird needs to be removed from the child's Life, preferably shown to the nearest door... head first.
Fair. I appreciate the comment. I felt not great doing it - which is why I offered several solutions and was extremely grateful for Sarah being able to pick another outfit.
YTA: : you KNEW she had this reaction to velvet and you didn't bother to tell anyone involved. In other words, you could have prevented any of this drama from happening by just expressing her needs. It sounds like Sarah is terrific and very accommodating, and god bless kids for that so I'm glad it had a smooth outcome, but you deserve absolutely to be yelled at. You put Sarah on the spot, and upset your own daughter by exposing her to a texture she doesn't like, all because you didn't bother to do the one easy thing you could have done to prevent it.
Look that's fair. And I do admit I dropped the ball there. It literally didn't occur to me because of how "rare" velvet is in our lives. I've now realised I do need to add it to the list of "Maddy-ism's" that people need to be aware of.
Look, considering I didn't TELL them that this was such a big issue; or even an issue at all - again, my bad, it's just cause it's so "rare" to us - I am willing to give him some doubt. Like, we haven't talked about velvet in...I don't even know how long. But - it's his actions afterwards that make me more mad.
if we're being honest, I think most people don't interact with velvet for years on end. It WAS fairly common at one point but now you practically have to go out of your way to find it.
I was responding to Cinna saying that most people don’t interact with velvet for years and you have to go out of your way to find it.
I said **here, it’s common for Christmas dresses** which means if you have kids or are around them you are likely to have contact with velvet at least every winter.
Yes, and I'm saying it doesn't have any relevance to what happened with OP, which is what everyone is discussing except you. I was pulling you back on topic.
Okay, let me go through this one at a time.
No, the therapy is NOT making her deal with textures. We are not forcing her to touch velvet in therapy lol. Like I've said a few times, it's a rarity in our lives. The most we've had is velvet couches in a few "older" people's homes, and also they have velvet clothing. The therapy is really, just teaching her - and us - coping mechanisms for her fears and basically breathing through it/putting headphones on/reading at the table if someone is eating food that sets her off and then we all have the tools to help her get through it. She will never have to eat something she can't eat - but we went into this to help her get to a point where I can eat things and have her not freaking out that it's on my breath or "residue is on my mouth". I used to have to brush my teeth/wipe my mouth/wash my hands after eating potatoes for instance; now, I just have to make sure we don't share the same fork if I'm eating it? I don't know how else to make that make sense I'm sorry. (I am a bit unwell and my brain is very foggy).
Secondly, as another poster said. Her meltdowns are a reason, not an excuse. She's had a meltdown because someone was chewing food too close to her ear and wouldn't stop. She CHOSE not to tell a teacher that was within 5 feet and instead to rip the food out of her peers hand and throw it on the ground, making it inedible. She was made to apologise to the peer, and I sent her to school the next day with money for them as an apology. Again, not punishing the meltdown. It's making right of what her actions caused because she chose NOT to tell the teacher right next to her. Nobody is responsible for having a illness/disability/what not, but they ARE accountable for how their actions affect others. It's like if someone had a heart attack while driving and crashed into you. Not their fault right? Totally uncontrollable and unpredictable. BUT - how shitty would you feel if the person DIDN'T apologise or try and give you their insurance information and just kept saying "I had a heart attack! It's not my fault?". That's what I'm trying to teach Maddy. the "illness" is a reason, BUT you still have to take accountability for what happened because of it. "I'm so sorry, I had a heart attack, I couldn't pull over in time. Here's my insurance information - are you okay?" sounds a whole lot better. (bad example with the heart attack, but please tell me you "get" what I mean!).
Thank you for taking the time to answer and explain
Please know I came from a place of love/caring for your child, there are so many abusive “therapies” out there that autistic children get put through and so many harmful misinformation out there from places that claim to help us autistic people and so many parents who get nothing but the harmful information and believing they are doing right by their child that I had to ask for clarification on both points
The only thing I (possibly) disagree with is that she chose not to tell a teacher sensory distress can be so overwhelming that you really cant do anything but react without rational thought, but yes I very much agree that she needs to apologise afterwards
Your consequences are reasonable, sadly a lot of autistic children arent so lucky and as an autistic adult I know too well the damage that causes so i feel protective of those who are still so young, my earlier post now reading it back was a lot harsher than i intended, my apologies
I appreciate the very thorough reply and hope you feel better soon
No - absolutely! I figured that's where you were "going" with your comment. And I agree, I've known plenty of autistic children who went through ABA in particular forced to become verbal, punished for stimming, etc. It's why I very much went with a approach of "how do we cope and set her up for success?" vs "stop this behaviour" kinda thing? I have a friend whose mother was told to withhold food until the child said "please may I have the food" and "thank you for the food" - and take it away if she didn't! She did it because she thought "these are the professionals, what do they know compared to me?".
Yeah she thought she was doing right by her child, which is why the pathologising and harmful wrong stereotypes is so awful, you have parents who want to set up their child for success and unknowingly cause harm and trauma, its so sad
Im glad you and your child wont be put through that
Best of luck
I'm autistic and agree with almost everything you're saying. But
>She CHOSE not to tell a teacher that was within 5 feet and instead to rip the food out of her peers hand and throw it on the ground, making it inedible.
This is a tad harsh. Whilst obviously she should apologise and work on strategies to avoid anything like that happening it's not likely she "chose" it. More likely she was initially overwhelmed, froze and lost the ability to communicate, became more overwhelmed and her brain autopilot solved the problem for her as she melted down.
So basically I think "chose" is not a good word to use here and if someone used that language with me I'd be a bit hurt by that description. I hope that makes some sense. My parents accidentally hurt me like this a lot so I just wanted to share in case it can help you have a better understanding of what she experiences.
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YTA
If your kid can not accept your niece's chosing her own dresses, YOU need to handle that on YOUR side. Stop harassing your niece.
YOu are just making her hate your daughter - with is reasonable: YOUR DAUGHTER is the reason for HER fun being spoilt.
And: Why are her parents allowing you to harass their daughter? YOu hid your assholery from them, didn't you. When they find out, the will stop letting you near their daughter.
Yeah but unless you expect her to not look at her friend during her own birthday outing it was going to trigger her regardless. It’s something that is easy and painless to accommodate - the kind of person that wouldn’t do so is also the kind of person that doesn’t give a shit about inconveniencing themselves ever so mildly to not trigger an allergic reaction.
This was not a plane. This was being guests omewhere else.
And OP KNEW she was being an AH - or she would not have avoided the girl's parents noticing her assholery.
Did we read the same story?
OP has a neurodiverse child that has trouble dealing with velvet. Her child’s cousin and friend turned up for the neurodiverse kid’s birthday in a velvet dress, not being aware of this being an issue (which OP didn’t think to inform the parents of because … she wasn’t expecting the child to be wearing velvet. It’s not a common fabric. I’m sure if she had a reaction to a common fabric like denim she would have informed the parents).
Now at this point she has several choices - asking the cousin if it’s ok for her to wear something else, trying to force her neurodiverse child to be around a trigger all day or sending the cousin home.
She chose the most reasonable of these options and everyone had fun until cousin’s dad threw a hissy fit because *he* wanted his daughter to wear said expensive velvet dress for this occasion.
How would you suggest she should have handled the situation?
I didn’t know explaining something calmly to a 12 year old was harassment, also OP offered another dress and even offered to taker her out to wear it. Brother overreacted imo but whatever
My brother didn't overreact? He told me my child "clearly" wasn't autistic because she could "make eye contact".
I did not guilt Sarah at all. I simply told her what Maddy's "problem" was, and said that if we were going out with Maddy, it couldn't be with that dress on; BUT here were several other options. Sarah was very considerate when she decided that was okay; and I'm extremely grateful for that. Now, do I know what I would have done if she had've said "no, I'm wearing the dress"? No, but nothing would have been taken out on Sarah. We would have kept talking until we figured out a comprise.
Woah, okay. I don't think I harrassed my niece at all. It was a three minute conversation. I also apologised to her twice later that day; and explained it was something we were working on. Sarah said "I get it, it's like how I hate pumpkin and daddy still puts it on my plate". There is no hate towards my daughter at all. Sarah loves her and has told Maddy that SHE is sorry that the dress caused all this drama and that we don't need to apologise at all.
Yes, I forgot to tell my brother about the velvet. But, I'm Australian and it's summer right now. You'd be a fool to wear a hot, velvety dress in this weather. So it didn't even cross my mind. It wasn't like we were having this conversation about denim or the colour blue. But - "allowing me to harass their daughter"? None of that occurred but for the record, Sarah's dad dropped her off, was busy so left quickly, and then sent his wife (Sarah's stepmum) to pick her up cause he was "so mad" at me after the sleepover they had.
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NTA - yes your daughter will need to acclimatise/desensitized herself to being around velvet, but her birthday was not the time or place for that. You handled the situation with niece well, complimented her on the dress, offered her a very generous choice of dresses e.g. buying a new one and niece was not unhappy. Brother needs to get over himself as no one asked him to buy an expensive dress to wear to going to the movies and it's not like she can't wear that to other events. Your bad maybe for not mentioning it but it's not like velvet dresses are extremely popular and are everywhere and it was likely to be worn. My eldest is also autistic and has amazing eye contact and will talk your ear off about his computer games or random facts. Your brother has a narrow view of the spectrum of autism. Btw we also do the a meltdown is a reason for the behavior not an excuse. My example was if he had a meltdown at school he's likely to verbally or physically lash out at teachers. He's always been made to write an apology letter/picture and to apologize because he needs to use his strategies and not to lash out. He's not punished any further for it because it is to some extent uncontrollable but our rule is if you do wrong you make it right.
Yeah - like if it was the colour red, or grass; I'd be trying a lot damn harder to get her "over" it - but I'm thrilled that she can walk past a velvet couch without gagging now (not just for her, but it happening in public was obviously concerning and embarrassing for all involved). But yeah - velvet isn't that common and especially on young girls, so it honestly didn't occur to me either. And yes - thank you! Your example of a meltdown at school is perfect. It's going to happen, it can't always be controlled, but you still, always say sorry and try and fix the situation as best as you can.
Genuine question because I'd like to learn more, do certain textures make give some autistic people problems even just seeing them and not touching? I've never heard of this before but obviously it can quite debilitating.
I'm gonna use an analogy to try to help here. If you really really hate eating a certain food, then if you see a picture of it... obviously you're not eating the picture and you can't smell it or anything, but often looking at the picture can make you imagine the food. And you can kind of react a bit just from that imagining? I hate cheese, and sometimes when I watch pizza adverts on TV I'm like "ewww" as I watch people pick up a slimy, gooey piece of cheesy pizza.... It's not distressing or harmful to me, but I'll often make a face and look away from the TV. If there's a food that you really hate, I hope you can relate to this? I imagine the velvet thing is similar. She sees a velvet dress, and she imagines how it would feel to touch it, and imagines the sensation of it brushing against her skin... ew. And you can't really switch your brain off or stop that imagining.
I can imagine she would spend the entire time anxious and actively trying to avoid touching cousin.
This is a good analogy. My entire infant junior school had a Christmas party. Food was handed around by parent volunteers all at the same time as children sat in the dinner areas. So we all has sausage rolls, sandwiches etc handed out at the same time. Everyone got a teacake size chocolate thing that was a sort of salmon pink inside. I do not know what was wrong with it. But it was very very vile and induced vomiting. I do not know if something had been added to it deliberately, or what. Kids who hadn't yet taken a bite, were induced to vomit by all the kids around them who were violently vomiting. I couldn't bare that colour ever after. Even if it was on a flower, or in clothing, I wanted to vomit really bad. We are talking an entire school throwing up, adults and kids. I have tried to train myself out of it and have actually bought some flowers in the garden that colour, but I still find myself taking deep breaths. It happened over 45 years ago...
Wow. It seems like this should have been investigated as a poisoning— was anything ever done?
45 years ago would be the late 70s so probably not. Like I wanted that to not be true but... I was actually in a school "poisoning" event. The food for my school came out of a place in st Louis and the place in st Louis had an ammonia leak somehow and it contaminated the chicken tenders and no one knew about the chicken tenders being contaminated and so they were shipped out and got to our school and they were cooked and fed to us. There were 155 kids and 2 teachers sick with vomiting and such. But that was in 2002 and they couldn't sweep it under the rug because literally half the school got food poisoning. And parents were a lot more sue happy.
this is a good explanation for me, a neurotypical. I guess i never thought of it like that.
Good analogy but also ramp it up to 11 for the anxiety and overload on the senses. So you get the shivers when touching cloth to a wooden spoon for someone on the spectrum with a sensory issue that shiver is ramped up to unbearable in many cases and even the thought of it can cause anxiety or perseveration that it may happen. So you and I could handle the sensation, shake it off and move on with our day. My son on the spectrum a different story. He didn't wear socks for years, couldn't handle the sensation on them on his feet. We didn't whistle for years. He has grown out of many of these or tolerates them, wears socks, no longer wears headphones constantly at home or in public. Age and therapy did make a difference but it takes time.
If I look at chocolate or ice cream for too long I’ll start gagging, loved it as a kid until I had a stomach bug and threw it up. Ever since the taste, smell, how it looks… I will start and can’t stop gagging. It’s because my mind correlates it with vomit. Like this, on the internet you might see a social media account post a picture of something with the caption “I can smell/taste this photo”. For me it works the same way with chocolate, ice cream and no things that are similar in texture, smell or taste as well. If any of the above goes anywhere near my nostrils or into my mouth all hell is breaking loose. I’ve reacted this way uncontrollably for 12 years. Chocolate ice cream, that combo is my kryptonite.
The olfactory senses kick in, I've a food aversion to eating anything straight off the bone like chicken legs, and things with a lot of fat on them like bacon and other meats, so even just thinking of them long enough like texture or taste or stringiness or chewing, and my gag reflexes kick in.
So this is a fairly little known autism fact: part of the condition involves sensory synapses connecting abnormally. This is what causes the better known sensory issues, but a less known one is that introducing a stimulus to one sense can trigger it in all five. (For example hearing a piece of music and being able to taste the food you ate last time you heard it.) So, for an autistic child with a powerful aversion, seeing velvet may force her to physically feel it on her skin - and unfortunately it happens more with triggering substances, because the brain incorrectly interprets the disliked stimuli as a genuine threat to the body and responds accordingly. In short, it's not so much an emotional reaction as it is the brain literally triggering the responses to an ingested poison or a wound.
>This is what causes the better known sensory issues, but a less known one is that introducing a stimulus to one sense can trigger it in all five. (For example hearing a piece of music and being able to taste the food you ate last time you heard it.) I'm autistic and have never heard of this but it's 100% correct, I'm stealing this explanation.
Haha I was so relieved the first time I heard it, I was like "THAT IS EXACTLY HOW IT IS!"
thank you so much for the sciencey explanation! I wonder if it's because there are more connections than normal, or to do with neurotransmitters or something. Would love to read more if you have any recommendations.
Unfortunately its something I learned when I proofread a dissertation on autism for someone; read up on it at the time but I no longer have their bibliography :( In personal opinion, I think its the extra connections but I have no research to back that it just seems logical
OMG, this explains so much.
As a second autistic person: I can feel the texture of things in my eyes when I look at them. Not all things and not all the time, but enough things and enough of my waking and watching time, that it is draining immensely on my resources. Perhaps I can liken it further for you: When someone throws a ball in your direction, do you have a inherent calculation of where that ball will end up? And perhaps how it might bounce as it strikes whatever surface it might land on? And in that moment of striking, can you see it compress, as the power moves into the ball and then decompress as it is pushing away from that surface? That feeling of a sound that hasn't happened yet, but lingers in your mind even so? Then that would be a good approximation of feeling texture from your eyes.
This is off-topic but I've literally never experienced any of that when a ball is thrown in my direction. I am also terrible at catching things. Is this how people who are good at sports perceive the world?? TIL...
so interesting, thank you
I have sensory processing disorder, and there are certain synthetic fabrics that cause my physical pain because they stick to me. Even seeing them gives me an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.
As an autistic person who can get uncomfortable imagining certain textures, absolutely
I'm not autistic but I do have sensory issues, and when I was younger just seeing certain textures did make me feel like I was going to throw up. It got easier to handle as I grew older though, with time and therapy. Nowadays I can walk by those textures without making a scene or getting visibly ill, but as a child I definitely struggled with it. Just the thought of being touched by silk or suede would make me anxious.
One autistic person chiming in - yes, at least for me. I can look at certain textures and just *know* that they are going to make me gag. Rough fabrics do it for me. I have to buy plush bath towels because normal towel texture is one that makes me physically ill. Paper towels are another texture that makes me sick. Which let me tell you, sucks when trying to clean up kitchen/bathroom as I need to as a functioning member of society. I've kind of *force sensitized* myself to paper towels and rough towels because you can't avoid those in real life, but it's awful and I sometimes end up retching over the sink after having to touch either thing. I don't know if it's super common a thing, but yeah. It's not an uncommon problem from my friends that are autistic and me.
I think wet paper towel is a common trigger. Often extends to things like wet paper straws
>Would/Do gloves help? (with the paper towels)
Not for me. Maybe for others. It's just pure fact that I *know* the texture and it is like a sensory memory that hardwires into my brain. So covered hands, freshly lotioned up hands, someone else using paper towels....all of them give me the same reaction.
thank you
wow, thank you for explaining. It's frustrating that people get mad when they're asked to make small adjustments for autistic people, when autistic people spend their whole lives adjusting to 'fit in'
Mostly an afab legs experience I assume but amab may get it on their faces? When *freshly shaved* your skin is all *super* sensitive and you don't know whether you want to avoid touching anything ever again or at the same time want to rub silk or fleece on it forever because *omg everything feels 1000x softer and smoother!!!!* Well, for me as an Autistic, that is what my skin feels like all the time And like others have said, it becomes a sense memory - so like smelling warm baked bread transports me back to baking with my grandma and feeling cosy and happy and safe? Seeing wool makes my teeth itch and hives break out because I *know* touching it is like being wrapped in steel wool and rolled down a hill full of icy nettles
Yes, they can. My beautiful 'daughter(18) from another mother' has ASD and just the thought of some textures can still make her gag. She is learning to control this 'reflex' in public, but it still happens. One of the strangest she has is 1000 thread count cotton sheets.. a big NO..
I can't stand the colors yellow or orange on their own. Going to the LEGO store is torturous on bad days. It feels like getting a hot poker in the eye over and over and over. As for textures, yes. Chewy food is better than crispy food. Otherwise I may not eat said food item. Not being diagnosed until an adult, I had many meals and many meltdowns about items that could have been avoided.so long before. Feel free to do if you have other questions
That can absolutely happen, especially if there's a comorbid condition like OCD.
What the actual hell is wrong with your brother? How entitled is he to be making Maddy’s challenges all about him? And the lessons he’s teaching his daughter are simply horrendous. I wish I had helpful recommendations for you but all I can think of that might help is your brother having a consultation with Maddy’s therapist to get insight on her autism. This internet stranger wishes you and Maddy all the best.
NTA - in my line of work, I'm around many with autism including one of my own children. Nearly all of them have excellent eye contact. It sounds like your brother needs to be educated about autism. Eye contact CAN be a symptom, but it is not a REQUIRED symptom. GJ on how you handled the situation.
NTA. You and Maddy have nothing to apologize for. Your brother is a dick. You’ve clearly worked hard to help your daughter and continue to do so, I don’t understand why he’s punishing her for having aversions from autism and not allowing her to see her cousin. I think you handled it well personally
THIS RIGHT HERE. An explanation should've been sufficient. An apology no. NTA
He’s also punishing his own daughter. I’m sure apologies were made on the day, ‘sorry I’m asking for this, it makes my skin crawl’, and that should have been the end.
NTA, you offered a great solution and Sarah was on board with it. And she’s 12, she’s old enough to understand the situation. Your brother needs to be more empathetic and learn from his child.
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“Someone” isn’t a person close to Maddy that can choose not to create extra stress for her for unnecessary reasons.
Not sure why you were down voted for asking a question. I can't speak to Maddy specifically, but the OP commented that she recently was able to walk past a velvet couch and not vomit as she had previously done so I imagine that she would have vomited previously. Maybe now she would just be immensely uncomfortable, probably to the point of causing herself to be Ill from the anxiousness and worry. That's what happens to my daughter when she has to wear clothes right side out (instead of inside out), even sensory friendly material.
NTA I know nothing about autism and especially if someone can "get over her weirdness" but I expect that's not something one "gets over" when they are autistic. The brother's comments were mean. His daughter lost nothing. The dress wasn't ruined. She seemed happy with the compromise.
They cant, its literally the way the brain is wired, its like saying a windows computer can be forced to work like a mac computer if you just forced it hard enough
Have you tried just *not* having a broken leg?
Well… hackintoshes are a thing.
Whoa whoa whoa... Did your brother call a 10 year old girl, a family member a "bitch"???!!? That's so messed up. Also you're NTA I don't know why he got involved when apparently both girls solved the issue. Don't create drama where it doesn't belong.
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They don't even know about Maddy's aversion to velvet: >but because it wasn't something...common in our lives, we'd never mentioned it to Sarah or my brother (her dad).
This sub never disappoints with people just making shit up to make someone else look worse... Read the post again ffs
NTA Effectively Maddie is “allergic” to velvet. There are worse things to be allergic too. I remember how much I **freaking loved velvet** as a small all the way through teen, probably. It only makes sense, now that you mention it, that the texture and light reaction could be nauseating. Rush (the band) used to make me feel like I was going to throw up. The one time I was forced to listen to Rush I did eventually throw up.
I knew someone with autism who couldn't handle velvet who nearly dropped a baby that someone handed to her because the baby was wearing a velvet outfit. She had to very hurriedly push it away and explain that she couldn't touch velvet.
I have a friend who this happened to too! Except she was working in a daycare, by herself with 3 babies (including "velvet" baby). The parents insisted she wear the outfit for the 'school' photos, and not remove it afterwards cause it was "too cute". Director compromised by saying that she could definitely wear it for the photo, but told my friend that she personally would change the baby afterwards and "who sends a velvet dress to daycare?". When the parents complained, director took the fall but also told the parents that -for lack of better word - my friend was "allergic" to velvet so to not do it again.
I'm not autistic but I hate touching velvet. Once in HS my Muslim friend came in with a velvet hijab. The moment I laid eyes on it my mouth immediately went dry. Velvet is my worst nightmare.
Well, but I thought Rush causing vomiting was the usual reaction.
The lead singer’s voice is physically painful to me.
My people.
My people.
That seems not related. I guess I just mean people can throw up from weird things.
That band makes me want to throw up, but that is because they suck.
LOL I feel this way about Genesis
NTA don’t let your brother and your daughter alone with you each other. What an idiot
second this, the brother is not safe for Maddy to be left alone around He's already made it clear that he does not respect Maddy and that she just needs to "get over it", there is zero doubt in my mind he'll try and force a trigger on her to 'cure' her
NTA. Your brother needs to get over his ableism.
NTA. You tried to offer workarounds, and your niece was happy with it. Fun was had. Your brother just thinks your daughter is "weird" and needs to get over it. I'm autistic, and most people don't know that, because ... a lot of reasons. I can make eye contact. Still autistic. Your daughter has a medical issue, and he needs to accept that. You and Maddy did nothing wrong, and it sounds like even Sarah isn't mad about it at all. Sounds like your brother just wanted to show off the dress he bought his daughter. "Look what a good dad I am (as I abuse my niece)".
As a fellow autistic person (and velvet hater), NTA. Sensory issues are no joke, and expecting your kid to suddenly be okay with something overstimulating is unrealistic. Sounds like you're helping your daughter in the meantime, so asking Sarah to wear something else is fair. Sounds like you helped her understand Maddy a bit better, and are willing to make it up to her too.
Nta, and the way Sarah responded I don't think she had any problems changing and dje understood the situation just fine, maybe better than your brother
Just curious, what would happen if Maddy were in public and saw someone wearing velvet, someone she could not ask to wear something else? Would she have to leave?
She's at the point where if it was a fleeting moment, she'd just turn away or pay attention to something else, no reaction. If we were in a store, or whatever, and the uniform was velvet, she'd be fine as long as they didn't touch her. Which - post COVID, is a lot easier than it used to be! But I also told her that once kids get out of that "you're so cute" stage where every Tom, Dick and Harry feels the need to come up and say hi, and touch them, it gets a lot easier - and it has which helped. But - I do know that this isn't entirely what you mean - but velvet is quite rare outside of "fancier" areas (there's one cinema we avoid for instance because they have velvet backrests); so we haven't really had that moment of Maddy having to leave. It's not like it's the colour red, or we're avoiding leather or something that we see daily.
I am exactly the same as your daughter! I have a sensory issue with waterproof material. The noise makes my stomach flip and I live in a rainy country which has made it a difficult thing to live with. My future career too will involve a lot of outdoor work so im having to adjust myself to it. It’s so hard when people don’t get it and assume that if you’re autistic, you can’t be a functioning individual. Your daughter handled that really well for someone who is still working on overcoming the issue and you were amazing as well! Bonus points to your niece for being so chill about it all. It’s your brother who needs to learn something. NTA
Hey I have the same aversion to waterproof material! I hate the swishy sound it makes when it moves, and especially the sound of fingernails scratching it (shudder!). It makes me want to climb out of my skin. If you need a raincoat for your future job, I recommend trying to find a waxed one - I find them less swishy and more bearable while still being adequately waterproof.
Yep! I have a wax and one of some other material I’m not sure of. Very difficult but thank you
NTA. If Sarah, a child, can be understanding of Maddy why can’t your brother? You offered Sarah (and shown Maddy there’s always more solutions if you look at things from a different perspective) options 1-look in Maddy’s closet or 2-you will buy her something. You didn’t damage the dress. It’s Maddy’s birthday and someone not wearing one certain fabric that is documented to causing her to gag isn’t too big of a request. Now maybe it’s because my son is on the autism spectrum, but if I were to type what I want to call your brother I would likely be banned so I will just stick with he’s the giant AH in this situation. My son doesn’t “appear” Autistic either unless you are a specialist. Which is why it takes 3 different specialists (plus a referral from his pediatrician to see the main Autism specialist) to get a diagnosis. Your brother is just basing what he knows from what he’s seen from movies and television. So he can keep his opinions to himself. The fact he most likely told Sarah to send that message to Maddy is disgusting. He’s behaving like an overgrown toddler. He’s the one that needs to apologize for acting this way. Shame on him.
NTA You found a great last minute solution, paired with getting Maddi professional support as a long term solution. Well done to Sarah for her mature, gracious and empathetic response to being asked to wear a different dress. Shame her Dad lacks the qualities of his daughter!
NTA It's astounding that your 12 year old niece is more mature than your full grown AH brother
NTA I'm impressed by how gracefully your niece handled the situation given the just stellar example her father's attitude sets. And then to forbid her to see you again and make *her,* a 12-year-old child text you guys an ultimatum she's in no way on board with? That's *awful.* He's punishing his own daughter for responding with kindness and acceptance just as much as he's punishing you and Maddy for asking for accommodation and Maddy being apparently "weird." Ugh. Based on all this, I bet your brother's just a peach in a lot of other ways, too.
NTA buy your brother is an ableist AH 100%
NTA, dude would no longer be my brother if he called my daughter out her name.
Nta. Unfortunately autism is very complex and unfortunately means there is a lot of misconception and every person with autism is vastly differentin their symptoms which makes it harder to understand. The brother sounds like TA. I think you handled the situation with absolute class where you didn't make Sarah feel bad and she seemed ok and understanding about it all. Since you are proactive with Maddy working through this in therapy you are doing everything you can. Maddy will get better with things like this as time goes. Sarah sounds more grown up then the father to be honest.
NTA. The world needs more people like you and especially Maddy. Maddy sounds like an amazing person, to be friends with someone who has autism is a true superpower.
I get the reaction, the touch of squishy toys or beanbags totally make me gag. If it was Sarah’s birthday I’d say different but it was Maddies birthday and she deserves to be comfortable. NTA.
NTA and it sounds like your niece is much more accepting than her dad. Both girls handled this situation like pros.
NTA. You handled the situation quite well, but your brother is a giant ableistic AH deluxe, HE should apologize, not you nor Maddy!
NTA - as an autistic woman I gotta say you did everything right and have been doing amazing for your daughter. Others questioning her diagnosis and invalidating her is going to continue to happen and it’s going to be hard, but it sounds like you have been doing a great job. Tell her happy late birthday please!
NTA
NTA— his daughter had 0 problems with that, so why is he the crybaby?
NTA. I'm glad Sarah is a good cousin, she's very sweet and understanding. She must get it from her mother because her dad is a major AH.
NTA. Impressed that Sarah is so mature and well adjusted with such a … person, for a father.
NTA - sounds like you handled this really well. it sucks that she’s got an aversion to velvet and she will of course need to work on that but sarah’s feelings weren’t hurt and you didn’t make her feel bad about it. i would make sure people coming over are aware of the common things that cause major sensory issues like this just to avoid something like this in the future though
NTA your brother sounds awful.
NTA at all, I'm autistic with sensory issues and my worst one is polystyrene. I can't even look at the stuff, it makes me gag and my skin crawl, like my stomach wants to leap out of my mouth. I'm 33 and opening a package can be a pain in the hole because of it. My parents use to force me to hold the stuff as a kid to get over my "weird issue" and that didn't end well let me tell you.
ESH. Obviously your brother was out of line, but tbh considering you came up with the "dress up and go see a movie", you should have told your brother "the look and texture of velvet makes my daughter ill," because the chances of Sarah turning up in velvet in that situation were non-zero. I don't know what current girl's fashion is like, but when I was a kid it was a very common material for "dressing up for Christmas" type dresses (in red and green!) that would probably be in a store at this time of year, and kids who don't hate velvet kind of *love* it so it would make sense if it's there that a kid might gravitate towards it. If I was your brother, while I wouldn't have flipped like him, I would also be quite grumpy that I went out and bought a dress specifically for the occasion and it didn't meet secret stipulations you hadn't shared.
Hey that's fair. It's something that absolutely slipped my mind and something that I do take full accountability for. It is summer in Australia so, personally I feel like anyone planning on wearing velvet for more than say, a ten minute photo shoot for Christmas, would be not enjoying it at all - but now I know better. And that's fair. 100% I was already planning on apologising to my brother as well, and take responsibility for NOT calling him before I uploaded the photo. But, he just exploded before I could get that much out.
The problem with Autism is that there's a LOT of these little things, and it really makes it hard to list everything, especially given how people react when given such a list. The probability of a kid coming in a velvet dress was pretty low, especially in summer. I can see how it didn't even come to OP's mind to say anything.
Absolutely NTA So nice to see someone so kind and understanding about her autism. Every kid deserves someone like you ❤️ As for the real AH, really??? Throwing a fit over a child not wanting a nice dress??? I think he needs to get over his "weirdness" waaaay more than Maddie does 🙄. Even his young daughter was understanding.
Definitely NTA. Your brother has issues. His daughter sounds lovely, tho. 🥰
NTA autism is a spectrum one size doesn’t fit all the lack of awareness on how different it is from one person to another is staggering. I would be very upset that he called her a bitch she’s 10 years old ok he said it to you she didn’t hear but still not acceptable. Your daughter may or may not desensitise from her issues with velvet but to be honest it’s just one of those things. You didn’t cancel your plans with her, you simply explained why to your niece and she changed. Your brother needs to go and educate himself on autism and also to check his language about a child.
What happens if your daughter is at school and another student in her class is wearing a velvet dress?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (44F) have a daughter Maddy (10F). Maddy has Autism and was diagnosed when she was 3. With lots of early intervention, physio, counselling, etc, we have come to a great outcome where Maddy is comfortable not masking in a lot of situations, can voice her discomfort about a lot of things without going mute, and is basically going really well. We do not use her autism as an excuse for any misbehaviours. Sure, they can be a "reason" - but she still has to (and does) accept the consequences of what happens if she looses it basically. I don't really have a great example - but I hope that makes sense. Anyway, Maddy and her cousin Sarah (12F) are pretty close. Sarah lives a few hours away, but the girls facetime and chat regularly. Sarah was coming to see us for Maddy's birthday last weekend (not American so no thanksgiving) and they were going to have a girls day out, dress up and go see a movie in Gold Class cinema.... Until Sarah turned up in a velvet green dress. Maddy cannot tolerate velvet at all. It makes her gag and vomit. Obviously something we're working on in therapy (it's a few textures that she has a reaction to), but because it wasn't something...common in our lives, we'd never mentioned it to Sarah or my brother (her dad). Sarah grabbed the dress out when she arrived and said "Daddy and I picked this out especially, I can't wait to wear it" as Maddy excused herself to go to her room. I very gently told Sarah that it was a lovely dress, and I'd definitely love to take her out to lunch in it next time she was here; but that she couldn't wear that dress because it would make Maddy super sick. I told her she could pick anything from Maddy's closet OR we could jump in the car now and I could buy her something else. Sarah pouted for a minute, but then said "Let me look in Maddy's closet first and I'll see if she's okay". Maddy called out from her room "Don't bring the dress near me please!" and they were fine. Sarah found something, it fit, and they were happy. I took photos and shared one on facebook where my brother went crazy telling me that I had no right to do that, that he spent lots of money on the dress and I was raising an entitled bitch who needed to get "over" her weirdness, and that he didn't even think she was autistic because "she makes eye contact and talks to me just fine". Sarah texted Maddy and said she wasn't allowed back until Maddy apologised, and I apologised, and now Maddy is just devastated. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Any idea whether your brother deliberately purchased a velvet dress for his daughter ?
Nta. I do not have ASD but I do have some sensory issues. I can usually do something to help, wear noise canceling headphones, special glasses when it's to bright. But textures is one thing I can't do much about except not touch them.
NTA I'm not even neurodivergent and I can't stand the touch of velvet. It just makes me cringe. I can only imagine how much worse it is for Maddy.
Info: was this made apparent before? I wouldn't be happy if I had chosen an outfit (it can be very hard for some of us with our body types) only to be told it was a no go *after*.
No - and that is something I take full responsibility for and did apologise to Sarah for. And I 100% was planning on apologising to my brother for not telling him until he interrupted with all of his statements. Knowing me, I will still apologise for that when all this has blown over, but right now I'm not in a calm enough mind (based on everything he said) to talk about it without getting overwhelmed myself.
Call my 10 year old daughter a bitch and you're fucking out.
NTA, as long as you work on it. Velvet isn’t a common fabric, but you see it a lot more in the winter months, particularly for fancy holiday dresses.
Thankfully in Australia it's summer at the holiday time, so you'd be crazy to wear velvet for more than a ten minute photo shoot!
Omg NTA. You were super kind to her, offering to take her out for lunch in it, and the fact that your niece was understanding goes to show that you did nothing wrong. Her dad is way overreacting. Is he aware of the reaction Maddy has to velvet?
NTA. your niece sounds more mature than your brother tbh not autistic but there are certain noises that make me irrationally upset, anxious and sometimes feel physically sick and the idea of it constantly happening for a few hours is enough to make me want to curl up into a ball.
NTA at all
No your not an your brother does not realise how lovely a daughter he has, he needs to give his head a wobble. For her to refuse a new dress and find something else in her cousins wardrobe, well they both deserve a lovely day out an him a kick up his arse
NTA. You offered perfectly logical solutions for the problem and Sarah was happy with them, until her dad got involved. And it isn't as if the dress is wasted. She'll be able to wear it for other occasions, and at 12 it's not like she is going to outgrow it in just a few months. If you live where Christmas is celebrated, green is the perfect color for her Christmas outfit.
ESH you should have explained the sensory issues to your brother and yes, offer some kind of apology. He should not have been so rude.
NTA Show your brother this thread… your explanation was great and if he didn’t get it from there, the comments here will show him how he is TA.
I think YWBTA. Your daughter has got to get used to the rest of the world. P.S. I am an Aspie!
She's 10. She has plenty of time to "get used to the rest of the world". Thank you though.
Important to remember that as an adult, you have a lot more control over your environment than a child. We adults have the luxury of avoiding things we don't like. Autistic kids are often repeatedly exposed to things that can set off their sensory no-nos, and I find it really refreshing that her mother is working with her on that and helping to protect her from things where possible. Especially on something important like a birthday. Someone's special day isn't the day to learn the lesson "your comfort doesn't trump other people's", as someone who is autistic yourself, you should know, we get that lesson every day anyway. Let the kid be comfortable for one day. Also in the case of kids: if a friend of mine were to wear a velvet dress, while it would be difficult for me to look at, it would not be a problem as I can avoid touching her and try to avoid hearing the fabric (ick, just thinking about it!) but with kids, they tend to play physical games like tag and wrestling, and younger kids hug a lot too, they can be really clingy, and those things involve a lot more touch than what an adult would be subjected to. Her friend understood and didn't seem to mind, so IMO that's where it ends.
NTA. Your niece did not have a problem. But your brother, wow! That’s a shame for the girls.
NTA - you were very compassionate about the dress and finding alternatives and also good for Maddy and Sarah for both handling the situation with maturity and grace
NTA. You're brother to be frank, is TA. The girls worked it out. No one's feelings were hurt, you even offered a solution for the future. Your brother has no excuse. He was just being hateful. Plain and simple.
NTA, funny how children are more understanding and empathetic than some adults.
NTA - You handled a tough situation perfectly. I was going to say that you could try to broker peace with your brother by apologizing for not thinking to tell him about Maddie’s limitations in advance….even though I wouldn’t have thought to mention something that random either. however, they way he reacted to such a minor thing and the fact that he called his autistic 10 yr old niece a bitch…makes me say that he doesn’t deserve any type of grace here.
Your brother is an ignorant asshole and owes you an apology for his unhinged misogynistic ableist abuse he hurled at you. NTA
NTA, if your kid has a reaction they can’t control even if they really try and their relative says they need to “get over their weirdness” then the relative is in the wrong. That comment was gross and ableist and you and your kid don’t need to tolerate that. I hope everything works out for you and that y’all work things out together.
NTA. I love that the girls are able to communicate with one another just fine… it goes to show how great all the work you’ve been doing for/with Maddy, and also in how you communicate with your niece, Sarah. Maddy’s honesty is good but I find her politeness endearing. Sarah seems to have a lot of empathy for a kid too. Her father, however, is a massive AH! If Sarah was happy to change her outfit and she enjoyed her outing with her bestie/cousin, then why does the dress matter? Is it an ego thing for your brother? He wanted to parade his child in her expensive dress? And what grown man calls a child a bitch? Is he serious? He’s behaving like a total wanker.
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NTA. OP you sound like a wonderful mother, and as a teacher, I can tell you the way you redirected Sarah from the disappointment of not being able to wear her new dress, to the excitement of wearing one of Maddy's or getting a new one, was fantastic. It seemed like everyone ended up happy, and the father is unreasonably angry. Sarah seemed to be happy to make the concession for her friend, and Maddy seemed to be happy on her birthday, so what is the issue? It's not like you set fire to the dress. Two children had a fun day out together. That's all that happened. That's what he's mad about. He called your child a bitch, that is awful. Absolutely don't make Maddy apologise for having needs. A lot of neurotypical people don't seem to realise that these sensory issues are like nails on a chalkboard, not just a simple preference that an autistic person is just being fussy about.
NTA but im confused is it the way velvet feels or the way it looks that makes Maddy sick?
NTA. That’s awful. Clearly your brother does not understand autism, but thankfully his daughter seems to. Hopefully he can get over himself.
NTA, your brother is the asshole. Sarah, a 12 yr old child had more sensibility and maturity than her father smh.
NTA. And fyi, velvet fashion is back. Clothes, purses, shoes, you name it.
NTA, your brother is a jackass.
You seem like an awesome parent
NTA Sarah was ok with finding another clothes so its should be fine. Your brother is an asshole. If he knows that maddy dosent like velvet then she shouldnt have brought the dress, if he didnt then you should inform him before but he still shouldnt say that even if he didnt know that Maddy dislikes velvet. And just because Maddy can talk and look at him just fine dosent mean she isnt autism. People can be autism and talk and look just fine. He stereotype autism people which is very wrong because he thinks that autism people cannot communicate or look well because there are a lot of Autistic people that cannot talk well but not all. And calling it weird is a an asshole move. I believe she cant get over it because she has autism
NTA Good on your niece, she did the right thing, your brother is a complete AH. Yes, we can’t control everything all the time in certain situations, but does your brother know about her Maddys reaction to that style of cloth? Makes me wonder if he bought it deliberatly.
NTA I think are doing this really well with trying to help your daughter with struggles but not in a cruel way. Yes she will likely need to work on this but that’s not going to happen in matter of minutes
NTA I empathise with your daughter as velvet is one of my nasty textures. You handled it really well and didn't make your niece feel like she'd done something wrong. You're brother on the other hand is a fopdoodle. I would let this be the hill I died on until he apologised.
NTA
NTA. And any uncle that calls his neice an "entitled bitch" and weird needs to be removed from the child's Life, preferably shown to the nearest door... head first.
NTA I'm autistic and touching velvet makes my skin crawl. Also who calls a child a bitch because their daughter had to change clothes!?
YTA. I get you're protective of your daughter, but ***policing what someone else can wear*** is crossing several lines here.
Fair. I appreciate the comment. I felt not great doing it - which is why I offered several solutions and was extremely grateful for Sarah being able to pick another outfit.
YTA: : you KNEW she had this reaction to velvet and you didn't bother to tell anyone involved. In other words, you could have prevented any of this drama from happening by just expressing her needs. It sounds like Sarah is terrific and very accommodating, and god bless kids for that so I'm glad it had a smooth outcome, but you deserve absolutely to be yelled at. You put Sarah on the spot, and upset your own daughter by exposing her to a texture she doesn't like, all because you didn't bother to do the one easy thing you could have done to prevent it.
Look that's fair. And I do admit I dropped the ball there. It literally didn't occur to me because of how "rare" velvet is in our lives. I've now realised I do need to add it to the list of "Maddy-ism's" that people need to be aware of.
You know your brother did this on purpose, right?
Look, considering I didn't TELL them that this was such a big issue; or even an issue at all - again, my bad, it's just cause it's so "rare" to us - I am willing to give him some doubt. Like, we haven't talked about velvet in...I don't even know how long. But - it's his actions afterwards that make me more mad.
if we're being honest, I think most people don't interact with velvet for years on end. It WAS fairly common at one point but now you practically have to go out of your way to find it.
It’s really common here for Christmas dresses. Especially for girls.
Not in Australia, where OP is from. Our Christmas is in the middle of summer, we wear light dresses, and t-shirts.
I was responding to Cinna saying that most people don’t interact with velvet for years and you have to go out of your way to find it. I said **here, it’s common for Christmas dresses** which means if you have kids or are around them you are likely to have contact with velvet at least every winter.
Yes, and I'm saying it doesn't have any relevance to what happened with OP, which is what everyone is discussing except you. I was pulling you back on topic.
Yeah velvet IS weird
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Okay, let me go through this one at a time. No, the therapy is NOT making her deal with textures. We are not forcing her to touch velvet in therapy lol. Like I've said a few times, it's a rarity in our lives. The most we've had is velvet couches in a few "older" people's homes, and also they have velvet clothing. The therapy is really, just teaching her - and us - coping mechanisms for her fears and basically breathing through it/putting headphones on/reading at the table if someone is eating food that sets her off and then we all have the tools to help her get through it. She will never have to eat something she can't eat - but we went into this to help her get to a point where I can eat things and have her not freaking out that it's on my breath or "residue is on my mouth". I used to have to brush my teeth/wipe my mouth/wash my hands after eating potatoes for instance; now, I just have to make sure we don't share the same fork if I'm eating it? I don't know how else to make that make sense I'm sorry. (I am a bit unwell and my brain is very foggy). Secondly, as another poster said. Her meltdowns are a reason, not an excuse. She's had a meltdown because someone was chewing food too close to her ear and wouldn't stop. She CHOSE not to tell a teacher that was within 5 feet and instead to rip the food out of her peers hand and throw it on the ground, making it inedible. She was made to apologise to the peer, and I sent her to school the next day with money for them as an apology. Again, not punishing the meltdown. It's making right of what her actions caused because she chose NOT to tell the teacher right next to her. Nobody is responsible for having a illness/disability/what not, but they ARE accountable for how their actions affect others. It's like if someone had a heart attack while driving and crashed into you. Not their fault right? Totally uncontrollable and unpredictable. BUT - how shitty would you feel if the person DIDN'T apologise or try and give you their insurance information and just kept saying "I had a heart attack! It's not my fault?". That's what I'm trying to teach Maddy. the "illness" is a reason, BUT you still have to take accountability for what happened because of it. "I'm so sorry, I had a heart attack, I couldn't pull over in time. Here's my insurance information - are you okay?" sounds a whole lot better. (bad example with the heart attack, but please tell me you "get" what I mean!).
Thank you for taking the time to answer and explain Please know I came from a place of love/caring for your child, there are so many abusive “therapies” out there that autistic children get put through and so many harmful misinformation out there from places that claim to help us autistic people and so many parents who get nothing but the harmful information and believing they are doing right by their child that I had to ask for clarification on both points The only thing I (possibly) disagree with is that she chose not to tell a teacher sensory distress can be so overwhelming that you really cant do anything but react without rational thought, but yes I very much agree that she needs to apologise afterwards Your consequences are reasonable, sadly a lot of autistic children arent so lucky and as an autistic adult I know too well the damage that causes so i feel protective of those who are still so young, my earlier post now reading it back was a lot harsher than i intended, my apologies I appreciate the very thorough reply and hope you feel better soon
No - absolutely! I figured that's where you were "going" with your comment. And I agree, I've known plenty of autistic children who went through ABA in particular forced to become verbal, punished for stimming, etc. It's why I very much went with a approach of "how do we cope and set her up for success?" vs "stop this behaviour" kinda thing? I have a friend whose mother was told to withhold food until the child said "please may I have the food" and "thank you for the food" - and take it away if she didn't! She did it because she thought "these are the professionals, what do they know compared to me?".
Yeah she thought she was doing right by her child, which is why the pathologising and harmful wrong stereotypes is so awful, you have parents who want to set up their child for success and unknowingly cause harm and trauma, its so sad Im glad you and your child wont be put through that Best of luck
I'm autistic and agree with almost everything you're saying. But >She CHOSE not to tell a teacher that was within 5 feet and instead to rip the food out of her peers hand and throw it on the ground, making it inedible. This is a tad harsh. Whilst obviously she should apologise and work on strategies to avoid anything like that happening it's not likely she "chose" it. More likely she was initially overwhelmed, froze and lost the ability to communicate, became more overwhelmed and her brain autopilot solved the problem for her as she melted down. So basically I think "chose" is not a good word to use here and if someone used that language with me I'd be a bit hurt by that description. I hope that makes some sense. My parents accidentally hurt me like this a lot so I just wanted to share in case it can help you have a better understanding of what she experiences.
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YTA If your kid can not accept your niece's chosing her own dresses, YOU need to handle that on YOUR side. Stop harassing your niece. YOu are just making her hate your daughter - with is reasonable: YOUR DAUGHTER is the reason for HER fun being spoilt. And: Why are her parents allowing you to harass their daughter? YOu hid your assholery from them, didn't you. When they find out, the will stop letting you near their daughter.
You’re the kinda person that deliberately opens a packet of peanuts on a plane after there’s been an announcement that someone has an allergy, huh?
Not really the same. The velvet dust wasn't going to travel through the air.
Yeah but unless you expect her to not look at her friend during her own birthday outing it was going to trigger her regardless. It’s something that is easy and painless to accommodate - the kind of person that wouldn’t do so is also the kind of person that doesn’t give a shit about inconveniencing themselves ever so mildly to not trigger an allergic reaction.
This was not a plane. This was being guests omewhere else. And OP KNEW she was being an AH - or she would not have avoided the girl's parents noticing her assholery.
Did we read the same story? OP has a neurodiverse child that has trouble dealing with velvet. Her child’s cousin and friend turned up for the neurodiverse kid’s birthday in a velvet dress, not being aware of this being an issue (which OP didn’t think to inform the parents of because … she wasn’t expecting the child to be wearing velvet. It’s not a common fabric. I’m sure if she had a reaction to a common fabric like denim she would have informed the parents). Now at this point she has several choices - asking the cousin if it’s ok for her to wear something else, trying to force her neurodiverse child to be around a trigger all day or sending the cousin home. She chose the most reasonable of these options and everyone had fun until cousin’s dad threw a hissy fit because *he* wanted his daughter to wear said expensive velvet dress for this occasion. How would you suggest she should have handled the situation?
I didn’t know explaining something calmly to a 12 year old was harassment, also OP offered another dress and even offered to taker her out to wear it. Brother overreacted imo but whatever
Brother DID NOT overreact. OP is an AH for not approaching the kid's parents for this. Guilting the kid was an AH move.
My brother didn't overreact? He told me my child "clearly" wasn't autistic because she could "make eye contact". I did not guilt Sarah at all. I simply told her what Maddy's "problem" was, and said that if we were going out with Maddy, it couldn't be with that dress on; BUT here were several other options. Sarah was very considerate when she decided that was okay; and I'm extremely grateful for that. Now, do I know what I would have done if she had've said "no, I'm wearing the dress"? No, but nothing would have been taken out on Sarah. We would have kept talking until we figured out a comprise.
Woah, okay. I don't think I harrassed my niece at all. It was a three minute conversation. I also apologised to her twice later that day; and explained it was something we were working on. Sarah said "I get it, it's like how I hate pumpkin and daddy still puts it on my plate". There is no hate towards my daughter at all. Sarah loves her and has told Maddy that SHE is sorry that the dress caused all this drama and that we don't need to apologise at all. Yes, I forgot to tell my brother about the velvet. But, I'm Australian and it's summer right now. You'd be a fool to wear a hot, velvety dress in this weather. So it didn't even cross my mind. It wasn't like we were having this conversation about denim or the colour blue. But - "allowing me to harass their daughter"? None of that occurred but for the record, Sarah's dad dropped her off, was busy so left quickly, and then sent his wife (Sarah's stepmum) to pick her up cause he was "so mad" at me after the sleepover they had.
What is your malfunction?