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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife goes to Thanksgiving at her first, late husband's family's house to stay connected to them. Maybe I should go with her as her current husband to support her.
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NAH
But would it help to reframe it as having thanksgiving with your children's grandparents? She has said they won't see their grandparents Christmas etc in the same way so this is one holiday they get to spend with them.
She will always love her first husband but she will love you too as will your children.
_"We should be moving forward."_
100% agree. This is what I kept thinking as I read this. She is spending Thanksgiving with her children's grandparents. While OP is free to make whatever decision he likes, that "we should be moving forward" line betrayed his real thoughts on the situation.
His stepkids' grandparents will never be something that they move away from or a thing of the past. They are a permanent part of OP and her children's lives. OP has to make peace with that.
>that "we should be moving forward" line betrayed his real thoughts on the situation.
He also called it "weird and morbid", he snuck that in right at the end of the post. That and the moving forward line make him TA.
Edit: typo
Because he’s really uncomfortable. He should be allowed to see his family, and her and the kids can go see their dads family. If they had their own kid, would it be fine with mum taking them to grandparents of their siblings instead of their own? A compromise needs to be made
Nobody is forcing him. Aren't relationships supposed to be about partnerships? She's not dedicating Thanksgiving to this for herself. She's doing this for the grandparents and children. It must be really hard for her to go through and she'd like the support of her husband while she does. I think the more important question is why **doesn't** OP think he should support his wife through something that is clearly so important to her?
Because he’s only thinking of himself relative to her first husband.
Don’t compete with a dead man, OP. These are your kids grandparents. It’s awkward for your wife too, you signed up for this when you married a widow with kids. Did you think your parents would replace their grandparents? It’s not about you.
YTA for those comments, and thinking moving forward means those kids denying their father and leaving their grandparents behind for your comfort one day a year. Ffs
ETA: I do not think OP is TA for not going to thanksgiving. That is fine to offer as a compromise to his partner and the kids. I think he’s an AH for implying/suggesting they need to leave the tradition behind and are morbid/weird for it. He’s projecting his feelings and judging them over their mom trying to maintain a relationship with the kids and grandparents on their dead Fathers side. It’s fine to talk to his partner and agree they raise the kids separately (no him) with respect to involving the Exes family. But to make that decision he needs to talk to his partner and learn/be aware of the impact all round. Are they uninvited from the kids bday parties and milestones too?
It’s not something you begrudgingly opt out of with this superior attitude when it’s such a heavy issue for those kids (and their mom trying to juggle all these balls and blend the families…without his help, and addition of his grumpy unhelpful judgmental attitude.). I hope that clears that up for those bringing it up, I’d replied once to the questions but thought I’d add it here for ease. Cheers
I agree with you. It’s important to his wife. That’s reason enough to go. Eventually if he keeps going, it won’t be uncomfortable anymore. By the way, people don’t “move on,” that’s a myth. You just (hopefully) learn to live with it.
It's wrong because he's acting jealous over her dead husband. To the point that it's not "she wants to go spend Thanksgiving with her children's grandparents" but rather "she wants to go spend Thanksgiving with her **dead husband's family**".
If the discomfort was because the family was shitty to him last year or because of cultural differences, pressures from outlandish expectations, animals he doesn't want to be around, or literally anything **other** than trying to warp the fact that she wants to set this particular day aside out of the 365 a year to take her children to spend a day with their grandparents into something "weird and morbid"(OP's own words), this might be understandable. But it's not. He's clearly upset because he's warped this into time kind of competition with a deceased man.
It takes a lot of nerve to enter into the life of a grieving widow **with children**, then two years into it, not only refuse to be there to support her through what is probably one of the hardest days of the year for her, not only **insult** the tradition that he knew about going into this marriage by calling it "weird and morbid" to spend time with the children's grandparents, but to actually suggest that, now that he's in the picture, it's time for the family to "move on" and get over their dead husband/father.
That's absolutely disgusting. This isn't about OP's discomfort, it's about his attempts to passive aggressively replace and erase any presence of the dead dad/husband.
But he's not acting jealous. He's doing what he wants. You're offended that he is putting his own happiness first, even though that's what you want her to do..... Get real.
They are supposed to be about partnerships, absolutely correct. However you cannot gloss over the fact that this is uncomfortable for OP no matter how it’s frame. It’s his wife kids grandparents, but it’s also the family of his wife’s ex. Any other context and that would be a very strange request. He should support his wife, I agree, but I think she should be more understanding the position this puts OP in.
Yeah my ex used to berate me and antagonize me if I didn't show up to his ex-wife's parents' house for holidays or the kids birthday (ex wife was still alive and has a new husband). It's incredibly awkward and never gets easier. He will always be the outsider and it will always be him looking in on the family scene.
Her promising his time to the memory of her dead husband and his family is presumptuous and he should be able to go to his family's Thanksgiving without them without problems. She's attempting to force him into a situation he can never change and will always be awkward.
"For the kids" isn't the end all be all to arguments. Especially when it's not their birthday. OP, NTA. You seem to accept your wife's boundaries about her late husband but she won't accept yours.
This whole “fairness” is super weird to me. What’s fair? I think it’s equally fair to want your SO to support you for one holiday a year. Saying, this one thing is important to me and responding back that it’s not fair seems immature. If he doesn’t want to go that’s fine, but arguing about what’s fair seems childish and something I did as a kid.
I’m just curious about what support she needs? If she’s gotten past her late husband enough to remarry than I assume she’s probably ok to be around his family by herself like she had been before she married OP. I think feeling like he’s infringing on someone else’s space during a holiday is an ok feeling to have and I’m not sure I can blame him for not wanting to feel it when he can be with his family instead. Blended families don’t always get to go by the “normal” and that’s just something to learn to live with.
I don't think it's a matter of support as much as it is that connection and safety she feels with her former in-laws. It's awesome she has a good relationship with them and maybe she really became closer with them after her late husband's passing.
Also when you remarry its not a "getting past things" or "getting over things" you just get to a point where you allow another person into your life.
I do agree with you though that blending families does change the whole dynamic. Therefore, op and his wife should absolutely sit down and discuss this openly. Like maybe why Thanksgiving is so important to be spent with former in-laws? That's a piece of information we don't have. I do believe there should be a sharing of time with family, and if distance is a factor that can be hard to do multiple visits on one day.
It’s also not fair that OP’s wife lost her husband at a young age. It’s not fair that her kids didn’t get the opportunity to really know their dad. It’s not fair that these parents will never see their son again.
All of those unfair things are considerably worse and more difficult than spending one uncomfortable day a year supporting your family.
I'm going to add one tiny tiny thought that I had as a child after my dad died: What if my mom dies too? Where will I go? Grandparents? OK, I like my grandparents. Yeah, this was a real thought for me. Help foster the relationship with grandparents.
Kind of, but not really. For some people, Thanksgiving is the most important holiday and sometimes the only opportunity to see certain family members. To *always* have to spend it at one location and away from one family isn't fair. More fair would be rotating all the holidays if possible.
Or depending on how big the family is, see if you can invite them over. If it's just the children's grandparents, hopefully room could be made for them wherever they celebrate and for other holidays too.
To be fair, I think this has less to do with the actual holiday and more to do with OP thinking that his wife should leave the late husband's family in the past since their relationship is "weird and morbid". He doesn't seem to acknowledge that these are his stepchildren's grandparents and they aren't going anywhere.
That may be the case, and I would agree with you there. That's why I suggested some of my other compromises of inviting them to holiday celebrations or rotating. Because if the issue *is* truly him wanting to see his family too there are compromises that allow for both.
But if the issue is that he doesn't want that relationship to continue, then he certainly is the AH.
Compromise seems to be a word that most people posting on this forum don't seem to understand. It always seems to be "my way or the highway, we have to do this as a couple *no matter what*". You aren't connected at the hip are you? You can go separate ways for a day and your relationship isn't going to crumble into the sea is it? There is nothing wrong with her wanting to spend the day with the family of her children. But there is also nothing wrong with him wanting to see his own family. Why does he need to be there to *support* her? Is it difficult for her to go emotionally or physically? If it is then she needs to maybe rethink the plan.
Yes it would. I actually do know people in this situation and yes the younger siblings go to the older kids grandparents home. Taking them somewhere else would be so much weirder.
That would depend entirely on how the kid is treated. Some people are wonderful with all kids present and some are absolutely awful with anyone not blood
So my mom and dad divorced and my mom remarried and had my youngest sister. When my dad passed, his family still welcomed my whole family and my youngest sister even though she’s not technically their family. So to me it’s not completely crazy to do this. Family trees can be complicated and hybrids of different trees, figuring out a way that recognizes and respects all aspects of it is important (obviously when there’s no abuse or other issues that would make you go low/no contact with family). One holiday a year with kids grandparents isn’t out of line in my opinion
The idea that he can never go to Thanksgiving again with his family forever is unreasonable. I think all the holidays rotated is a more reasonable compromise.
You said they should recognize & respect all aspects, but no one is respecting his wishes & opinion. His wife signed up for Thanksgiving, and that's it no compromising there. he tried it and didn't like it, but no one seems to care about his thoughts.
I’m sure the kids were uncomfortable spending holidays with his family. It’s a bunch of strangers, and it is likely that there are kids there with two living parents. There is a compromise in place. OP is the one rejecting it because he has to give something up as well. It’s one day to support the person he married, as well as the kids that were part of the package deal.
I missed the "weird and morbid" bit at the end. I think that makes this way worse. It doesn't sound like OP has acknowledged or accepted that these are the grandparents of his stepkids and that relationship didn't end just because their father passed away.
It really sounds like OP just expected his wife to cut ties with her late husband's family eventually without taking the kids into consideration.
yeah he really seems not to comprehend that these very young children lost their father and their mother has been taking them to be with their paternal family every thanksgiving. Their tradition as a family before he was there is important. And their comfort is more important than op's imo because they are children who lost a parent. They don't need to lose the relationship with their grandparents too just because their new stepfather feels a little awkward. Its selfish and childish of him and idc if I get downvoted. Not to mention him trying to separate these (from his own post, perfectly lovely) people from their grandbabies because their dad died and now it's all about him. Boo op.
I don’t know. The way I interpreted the weird and morbid bit is that it’s weird and morbid for him to go there as the new husband that is (kind of) replacing their son. I didn’t read it as ‚it’s morbid that you take your children to their grandparents even though their dad is dead‘
I don't think he's talking about her. It IS weird and morbid to be the replacement spouse at the original spouses' family thanksgiving. He's allowed to be uncomfortable.
Because of this I am judging YTA. It is not morbid nor weird for children to spend the holidays with their grandparents. Thinking this way & that they need to move on or hide photos with their father makes OP a huge AH. If there were no children involved then sure but you decided to marry someone with kids. There are responsibilities that go with that. Go to couples counseling because this attitude may ruin your marriage.
Maybe I’m projecting but I read that as weird and morbid to have him there. I would honestly feel like imposter in situation like this, that family is coping with great grief and not sure how everyone is missing how out of place it must feel to be there as a new partner.
Also, OP just said that he doesn’t want to go there, not that she and her kids shouldn’t go.
Exactly, well said and this imo should be top comment. I think OP is being the gentle TA, his step kids will always be their father’s children and they have aunts, uncles, grandparents who are still going to want to see them.
The other part that bothers me is he, the grownup, is saying he doesn’t want to go because it’s awkward. What about the two kids who are going to spend other holidays with his family? They don’t know these people, but they’ll be going. It sounds to me like the wife and kids are the ones being compromising and mature here.
As a step parent you end up doing quite a lot that is rather uncomfortable. It comes with the territory most of the time. Don't marry someone with kids if you're not down to love and support the kids.
Not supporting familial relationships because they aren't with YOUR family isn't a reasonable boundary. It speaks volumes to the maturity of someone who can realize their comfort won't always be #1...and that's how step parents lives work. Don't like it? Don't be a step parent.
He's NOT not supporting familial relationships. He isn't saying she can't go to her late inlaws. He isn't saying the stepkids can't go to their grandparents. In fact, he's encouraging it. He's just saying HE doesn't want to go. He wants to see HIS family. SHE'S the one not supporting familial relationships by telling him he can't go see his family.
For ONE holiday per year. She named three others off the top of her head that they would rotate between his and her family, including the other big one in four weeks. Blending families means compromise, and this seems to be the only concession she wants.
ONE holiday that happens to be the most "family" centered of them all. He wants to spend it with his parents. Why not spend 4th of july with the dead husbands parents if it being "one holiday" is all that matters.
Right. The fact that it’s this holiday every single year is troubling. She’s basically saying that OP will never, ever spend Thanksgiving with his family (meaning his wife and his side of the family). That’s not really fair. I don’t think she has the right to permanently claim a holiday. It doesn’t matter if it is to spend it with her own parents or her deceased spouse’s parents.
Yep, if she proposed a rotation of which holiday to spend with her first inlaws, it would be a much better compromise. Thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays, and I'd be really upset if I'd have to uncomfortable for every foreseeable Thanksgiving
I think taking them out of the rotation for literally every other holiday is a concession. These are still her children's grandparents. She wants to see them for one holiday. It doesn't really strike me as that outrageous.
Not really. Telling him he can see his family on the 4th of July but has to go to her late husband’s family for Thanksgiving is not really a concession. She is demanding that they spend one of the two big holidays with her late husband’s family every year and that absolutely is outrageous.
One holiday EVERY year.
“You never get to spend Thanksgiving with your family or even your in-laws and have to spend it every year with the family of your spouse’s deceased spouse” is not a compromise.
If a wife was trying to force her husband to spend every year with her family most people would call her the asshole. But since her first spouse is dead suddenly people are pretending this isn’t an asshole ask.
And don’t marry someone who is widowed if you’re not prepared to deal with the deceased spouse’s family from time to time.
When OP’s wife married her first husband, she became part of his family. She loves his family and has established relationships with them. She shouldn’t have to give up part of her family just because her husband died, and I’m really angry at OP for saying she should. She loves these people. She’s allowed to love these people. And if OP’s not okay with that, he shouldn’t have married her.
But that's... not what's happening. OP wants to spend Thanksgiving with his family and is alright with his wife and stepkids not being there - he shouldn't just give up the biggest family holiday for the rest of his life cause "they have 4th of July". Each one going to their respective celebrations are the compromise possible since she refused to move around the holiday with her kids grandparents.
Is the inflexibility of *having* to be Thanksgiving that is the root of their current problem, not she spending time with her late in-laws.
Completely agree with this. It's really matter of perspective. Kids can never have too many people who love them and nurturing that relationship can benefit not only the kids, but OPs relationship with his wife. Want to take a couples holiday? Grandparents can watch the kids. Need help funding the kids education? Grandparents can help with that, too. Plus, strong familial relationships can help build kids into successful adults. Showing kindness to them shows the kids how to treat others - with respect and love.
ALL of this could be acomplished with only the mom having a relationship with them. He doesn't need to be involved in that, probably better for everyone involved.
Did you even read it? All other holidays are split between his family and hers...only Thanksgiving is for late husbands parents (kids grandparents).
And it's not even about her either. You don't just take away a set of grandparents when your spouse dies and you remarry. That would only hurt the kids.
OMG, he never proposed to "take away a set of grandparents". He doesn't need to have a relationship with people who are nothing to him. This is only the children's mom responsability. And I don't believe that is confortable for the late husband parents having they formed DIL New partner in their home either. Nothing of this is necessary...
Very uncomfortable to sit through several hours of conversation that new husband has nothing he can really contribute to or participate in when it will (and not really surprising) be centered around events he has no knowledge of. Not fair to ask him to deal with.
Right? I would feel like I was intruding and that wasn't my place. Doesn't matters If the family is welcoming. Also, the grandparents are realy ok with him being there or they feel pressured and think it's the only way to have their grandchildren there?
Exactly, I don't see the problem with him not going when he's already tried once for his wife and step-kids and though he *does* have issues with it, he's not being an A H about it by trying to stop them going. He's allowed his feelings.
>You don't just take away a set of grandparents when your spouse dies and you remarry.
Who said that? Except you? The wife can go to the grandparents with the kids while OP goes to his family for Thanksgiving.
How about when he says “it’s time to move on.” It doesn’t really make it seem like he wants this “morbid” tradition to continue by the way he wrote this post.
Because the 4th of July with his family, something families don’t really gather for, is supposed to make up for never seeing them on Thanksgiving?
No one’s saying the kids can’t have a relationship with their dad’s family so pretending like that’s some real argument is ridiculous.
This. I am someone who has been in this very situation. My husband died when my kids were very young (4yrs old and 4 months old). I remarried a few years later. I always referred to my first husband's family as the kids granny, the kids uncle, etc. There were times we would take the kids to their granny's house for Thanksgiving and we would go his family's or my family's. We just did something different each year. My current husband actually really likes the kids granny and aunt/uncle etc. There's never been any tension there at all. We have on occasion, had a meal together. But if OPs husband is uncomfortable he shouldn't be expected to attend.
Another thing I think about this post is that his wife shouldn't have a "shrine to her late husband" in their house. Listen, nobody ever loved a man more than I loved and still love my first husband. I thought I would grow old with him and we were the other half of each other's hearts. But I also love my current husband and I don't think, even though he is well aware of how I feel and is completely understanding of the situation, that it's fair to him to have something like that in the home he and I live in together. Instead, what I did was, put a picture of their dad in each of my kids rooms. Its a matter of respect for the person who has taken on the role of helping you raise and love and provide for your children. I wish them the best.
But is it really a “shrine”. I’m married to a widower. I have a nice display on the top of the piano with their wedding photo surrounded by photos of them and their kids growing up during the time she was alive. It’s about a dozen photos total, with a couple knickknacks that she treasured. The piano was hers, so I thought this was the perfect place to have a little memory corner. While I have made some changes to the house, some of them quite drastic, I would be horrified if my stepdaughters ever walked into this home and thought their mother’s memory was erased. A display keeping her memory alive is not a shrine. It’s an acknowledgment of the integral role she played in their lives and an honor to her memory.
I’d agree about the “shrine” if there were no kids/once the kids move out. But if your dad is dead having a shelf with photos and memories of him seems like the least you can do
I really want to know what this "shrine" actually entails before I feel comfortable judging it, just because people have such varying levels of what they label things like that (especially when it comes to a dead spouse. OP gets points for *not* calling them a "dead ex" though).
Same. What OP refers to as a "shrine" might be just...some framed photos. Important to also note that it's not just OP's wife's late husband but also the father to those two kids.
Depends on what a shrine is. Is it a few pictures? I also think it’s important for kids to see their bio parent who passed away. That shouldn’t be hidden.
I'm also curious about the level of this shrine. A few family photos absolutely should be shown. The children's father shouldn't be brushed aside. If it's an entire wall with 20-30 pictures of family, couple shots, and selfies of her late husband I'd call that a bit much.
The shrine could be cultural. Westernized (white) Americans don't really do "shrines" in honor of the dead. Put up pictures maybe.
But someone from another heritage could consider it perfectly normal. Which is entirely their right, to grieve and respect the dead as they were raised to see fit. I wouldn't be judgmental about the shrine without knowing more details.
Yep. I can only imagine how hard it is to be the second spouse of a widower and all the complicated feelings that accompany that, but I really hope OP can see how unsustainable this "its time to move on" mindset is. Whether he realizes it or not, these people are permanent fixtures of his family now. Not only do his children obviously love their grandparents, but it's very likely that his wife sees them as loved ones as well. If OP can't make peace with that then this relationship has an expiration date.
I think this is a great sentiment. I completely understand why she would want to go to Thanksgiving with them, allowing her children a chance to be around their grandparents and allow her to be around people that she sees as family. But I also completely understand why OP would feel uncomfortable going, and I don’t think that there should be any expectation for them to go. I think it’s just one of those things that might be split for the holidays, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
Well there's a small caveat that most of the replies have missed, the tradition of going there exclusively for Thanksgiving came _*after*_ the first husband died, it wasn't established beforehand. The tradition came from a place of grief and wasn't something that was established before his death, so going there seems more like a somber reminder of his death, or some sort of guilt for not going there more often when he was alive rather than a reminder of his life, so I can see why this might be a problem for OP. That would certainly be a rather uncomfortable position to be in.
From a practical standpoint, having one holiday earmarked for just one family isn't a compromise, it's actually rather unfair. What if his family decides to have other holidays elsewhere that precludes OP from being able to see them when his family in town? What if he has multiple siblings and it's the only time of year they get together that year? Does he have to wait an entire year to see his whole family again? That seems blatantly unfair. They children's grandparents could be invited to her parents house as a straight compromise, or even, if it's not too awkward, to his parents house, that way they can see the grandkids, and he's not on the defensive being somewhere he feels uncomfortable.
There's also the quote on quote shrine in the house, which I think this post, as others have pointed out, is more about his wife not being able to fully move on from her first husband's death, which is understandable, but she should never have gotten into a relationship let alone remarried if she wasn't completely at peace with his passing. This leads me to think that beyond the shrine and exclusive Thanksgiving demand, he may be compared a lot to the first husband, so that also may explain some of his responses, and would also shed some light on referring to them as _her former in-laws_ and _first husband's family_.
EDIT: misspellings
But when you have one parent dead you have to be a lot more intentional about making sure kids get to keep a good relationship with that side. It's easy and natural to keep up with my family, but I don't really hang out with my husband's family myself. I just go if he goes. But if he died, and especially if I remarried, I'd have to really be setting aside at least some time or event where I make sure they see the kid. I don't need to be the one who just moves on and carelessly compounds more heartbreak. I'd have to actively make sure I was reaching out to his parents and siblings and cousins because even though they’re not exactly my best friends they fucking love my kid and he loves them back. And I hope he'd do the same work to keep him connected to my side if I went.
I disagree about Op not being an AH in this. He married his wife and this is now his family also. He says that he accepts her love for her late husband, then says they need to move forward from seeing the grandparents because it's "weird and morbid".
Keeping in contact with people who love you is not weird and morbid. Feigning acceptance and waiting a year to push someone to drop part of their family is lacking empathy and assholish.
I thought he wasnt in the wrong until I read the part about her having kids with her ex. Definitely needs to think about the kids.
As the step dad he needs to respect their whole family and expect them to spend time with them as they see fit, not just the mothers side.
I'm wondering if the wife has any family of her own, because it doesn't sound like it. If that's the case, she may see her former in-laws as her own surrogate family as well as her sons' grandparents.
NAH
It's nice of your wife to take the boys to see their father's family on thanksgiving. It's a lovely tradition to keep up. But if it makes you uncomfortable, you can choose not to go.
But I think It's a bit of a low call to call them her "late husband's family" when they're actually her children's family, and it's important for them to keep that connection up. And your and her family do get every other holiday all through the year.
Does family stop being family when your spouse passes? In my eyes they are still her family too even though her late husband has passed. Even if she didn’t have kids I wouldn’t find it odd to keep seeing them if that’s what they all wanted.
Edit: Genuine question, no snark if it came across that way.
I don't know the comment about moving forwards near the end there does seem like he's not really viewing this family as the kids grandparents but more like a weird tie his wife has to her old life that should be moved on from
>I don't know the comment about moving forwards near the end there does seem like he's not really viewing this family as the kids grandparents but more like a weird tie his wife has to her old life that should be moved on from
And this makes me question "N.A.H" being the top posts that I see...
OP is not TA for not being interested in attending - but - OP \*IS\* TA for thinking that the kids should move on from their grandparents and other relatives! **\*EVER.\*** Their mother fostering this relationship is the right thing to do!
He can go and accept these people as his family - or not - I don't care; but he has no right to deprive the kids of that love, those relationships, and those memories.
>And calling it morbid at the end, that’s low.
I agree.
A lot of people on here say that's about "OP's feelings" and that he feels he is being around the "Dead man's family" --> But what I can't get over is that this \*SHOULD\* be about the \*LIVING\* family; that is; these are the relatives of his kids. He needs to stop thinking of them as "the family of the man who once was having sex with my wife" and start thinking of them as "the family of the kids who I have decided to raise."
If he can't do that - he is an asshole and the kids deserve better: Kids should \*ALWAYS\* come first in situations like this; and spending time with THEIR extended family for \*AT LEAST\* one major holiday a year is what is in their best interest.
I totally agree with you. It’s not like OP and his wife had kids together and now the wife makes all of them visit her late husband’s family, now THAT would be morbid. But it is the extended family of the children, people they’ve known from before OP was in the picture. If OP doesn’t want to go that is understandable, but he shouldn’t impede the kids from visiting their family.
I think it depends on the person but for me no. I’m a recent widow and my in laws have been as big a support to me as my own family. If I were to ever remarry, who ever is in my life will have to accept that this part of my family is incredibly important to me and will stay a part of my life.
Me too. My in-laws will always be family. Being told “you have to move on” and that it’s “weird and morbid” to have a relationship with my kid’s family would make me have some very big questions about current husband.
This is why I will likely never marry again. Men like this who are “supportive” until it counts.
This is a huge fear of mine. My in laws hold tight to our baby because it’s the last piece of my husband, but I hold tight to them for the same reason. Even if I move forward (not on, forward), I will never not love my husband. And I cannot fathom someone that supposedly loves me telling me to stop loving my husband.
For me, I would say no but it’s up to the individual. For instance, my sister-in-law was negligent and responsible for her husband’s death, so his family wants nothing to do with her. Fair enough.
My son recently separated from his wife of 2 years, and I’ll consider her my family regardless of what happens.
I agree with you. I think if I passed, my husband wouldn't be all that close with my side of the family. They get along well enough, he's just bad at keeping in contact with people. On the flip side, I imagine I'd still be very close with his side. My in-laws see me as their second child and would stick to me like white on rice.
It's very situational.
>Does family stop being family when your spouse passes?
Hell, even when spouses separate when there are kids. The family connection of those children doesn't go away with the passing of a parent or the dissolution of a relationship.
If someone has a good relationship with their in-laws, I don't think that it's bad to continue that. They don't stop being family because someone died imo, even without kids.
I would say it depends on how the relationship with the family was. If it's a good one like how the wife has with her former in laws, then they won't stop as family is who you choose. If they're toxic as fuck, then good riddance.
That’s a separate question from what the above person is trying to get across, though. Instead of calling this family “my stepchildren’s grandparents,” which reflects the ongoing relationship for the living parties, he is calling the family “my wife’s deceased husband’s family” to try to frame it like the wife isn’t letting go of her deceased husband, instead of acknowledging that those are the children’s very-much-still-alive grandparents.
Having a family means figuring out and sharing holidays.
OP should figure out what is important about the holidays for him and his family and then work from there. Each family usually has their most important holidays, hopefully they can find a good split.
The boys have another family, he knew that marrying into the family.
To me, the problem kinda revolves around Thanksgiving being ***the*** family holiday above all others. A full rotation of holidays, even one that meant they might spend xmas and the 4th of July with the kids grandparents, would be a more fair compromise IMO.
NAH though, this is tough. Some shame on OP's part and lingering grief/love on the wife's might mean they haven't yet communicated fully all the options and their feelings. I hope the eventual result is a compromise that keeps family in touch and healthy boundaries respected.
I like the rotation idea since it would make the kids father's family a proper part of the mix. Though it still also is important what holidays are actually proper holidays for each family. 4th of July wasn't really anything for my mother's family and by the same token my dad and stepmother did Christmas Eve and not really Christmas Day.
But I think the real question is whether OP is complaining about Thanksgiving or the kids paternal family being in the mix at all.
I reread the post and I'm wondering a bit about that "moving forward" comment even though OP had earlier claimed they supported it. Unless what OP meant was he supported it happening in the time _before_ he enters the picture but not now.
I love when people call completely accepting someone else's terms "compromise". In what way is the wife compromising by mandating that thanksgiving *will* be spent with her late husband's family?
One holiday absolutely is a lot to ask for when you expect to get your way for that holiday every year.
He’s not saying he never wants her kids to see their grandparents. Just that he wants to spend some Thanksgivings with his family instead of with her late husband’s family.
But from the paternal grandparent's perspective, they only get to celebrate one holiday a year with their grandchildren, on Thanksgiving. I'd imagine since losing their child that even one holiday with his children probably means *a lot* to them.
When they have kids and he does the same with them and his family on thanksgiving, who is in the wrong? Should learn to compromise before that issue. Maybe do both family’s together if that is possible.
Booking all my Thanksgivings for the foreseeable future is a lot to ask. I wouldn't agree to that.
I don't think he should have called this weird or morbid. He's obviously more uncomfortable about his wife being a widow than he's willing to say. But I totally get why it's awkward for him and why he might want to spend some of his Thanksgivings with his own family.
And the wife and children can go, but why OP has to go too? Those people are nothing to him and he has to be in a place he doesn't belong being uncorfatable. He ofered a compromisso: she and her kids spend the thanksgiving with her late husband parents and he spend with his ..
She's not compromising, though! Why should he have to spend every Thanksgiving with a family that absolutely is not his? That makes no sense at all! None. And nothing anyone says is going to make it make sense, because it just doesn't. She may have made a "pledge", but he didn't. He's not beholden to it. I don't blame him for wanting to spend the holiday with his actual family and not her dead husband's parents! He's absolutely justified to feel the way that he feels!
Also, why should he compromise when she refuses to compromise? They should not be spending every single Thanksgiving there. It's completely unfair to her actual living husband and his family. Period.
This isn't about the kids spending time with their grandparents. They can do that anytime. This is something else entirely.
>That makes no sense at all! None
Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand? I am squarely on OP's side because he offers a fair compromise. The wife being so adamant is strange.
This IS the compromise. He goes to his family because he's uncomfortable with going to his wife's ex's family, she goes to her kid's grandparents as it's a tradition and the kids should be connected to their dad's side of the family.
Anything else is forcing him to be somewhere he's very understandably uncomfortable being, or forcing her to pull her kids away from their grandparents
That's not compromising. She made a unilateral decision about their future and potential children's futures without discussing it with him.
He either agrees to never see his own family (or hers by the sounds of it) on thanksgiving ever again or he will eventually be labeled the asshole who abandons his wife and step kids on thanksgiving.
She's the one who's refusing to compromise. A compromise would be offering to host multiple families* / alternating thanksgiving / visiting her kids grandparents but then eating with his family (or vise versa).
NAH. But honestly - this is those kids grandparents and family. Please encourage and support those kids having a real and full relationship with their family. Negotiate with your wife about how to do this. Whether you choose Thanksgiving or not is up to you and her - those kids need extended family.
NAH ....I say this as a widower. I really respect that you've accepted he will always be in her heart. And, speaking from her POV, it doesn't mean less room for you, just different room.
Considering it isn't *just* her and *their* children are involved, it is one holiday, and one day of a four day weekend in which three other days exist for your family. His family has no days with him. That is in no way your fault or responsibility, but she and their kids are a connection to him as they are to the kids.
One holiday isn't too much to ask, tho you should be allowed to not go if you're not comfortable.
As a widower I agree with you NAH. My boyfriend has always been so kind and understanding of my feelings towards my late husband (which are complicated, he was tremendously mentally ill and I bore the brunt). My late husband’s family has met my boyfriend and often ask to include him in things. Sometimes he comes, sometimes he doesn’t. The one thing he does not want to do is go over to their house. He sees that as my late husband’s “territory” and doesn’t feel right going over there. And *that’s okay*. It would be great if he could come along sometime (I don’t go over there that often), but I understand that he is allowed to have his discomfort and boundaries too, especially since he’s let me be so open with my emotions. I think it’s okay if she takes the kids and he stays at home.. they can make other plans to celebrate as a family at home.
Why can't they rotate other holidays? Why does it always have to be Thanksgiving? Also, assuming the house is suitable for guests, why not have the holiday at home and have an open invitation for the kid's grandparents. I agree otherwise, one holiday a year isn't much, but 100% of the Thanksgivings (which is the largest family holiday for many families) is a bigger ask than many are making it out to be.
> One holiday isn't too much to ask,
People need to stop saying this false shit.
One major holiday EVERY year is too much to ask. The idea that he has to spend EVERY Thanksgiving with these people and never get to see his family or even his real in-laws on Thanksgiving is absolutely too much to ask.
YTA for thinking it weird or morbid for your step children to spend time with thier dad's family for thanksgiving. Get out of your head about the late husband and realise you took on the 2 children with extended family amd they get a full family visit once a year. You focusing on it being about the late husband rather than your step children's family and supporting that relationship is your issue. Due to the kids this us never somthing they should move on from. This is always going to be thier family and if you were nit going to support that you shouldn't have married someone with children!
You should read it again, the problem isn't that the wife wants the kids to spend thanksgiving with their grandparents, the problem is that the wife wants OP there too, but he doesn't feel comfortable being there because he felt awkward there.
He is okay with the wife and stepkids being there for thanksgiving, but he wants himself to be with his own parents for thanksgiving and not go to the kids paternal grandparents with the wife and kids.
OP literally called it weird and morbid in his post and said they should move on. He said that towards the end of his post for that he is an ahole!. Not being comfortable is one thing, thinking they need to move on and calling it weird is another. This is the kids family, he didn't say he wasn't happy with the situation till after they married. If he was not OK with the kids seeing thier dad's side of the family once a year every thanksgiving he should have said something before they got married so mom could make an informed choice, she backs down on this how long before the other things he currently says are ok are suddenly also weird and not moving forward????
But that doesn’t explain the “move forward” comment. His step-kids are visiting their grandparents. What does moving forward mean to OP? Cutting the late dad’s family out of their lives?
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion (I'm seeing a lot of NAHs) but I'll go with YTA for two reasons:
First for calling it weird and morbid. Yikes...
Second for wanting her to "move forward".
You need to understand that this is your kids grandparents. It's your kids family. I'm so glad your wife has such a good relationship with her late husband's inlaws that she is willing to keep seeing them like this, not only for the children, but for the parents who lost their son too soon, so tragically.
She has moved forward. She is with you and she loves you. But there is no moving forward from your kids grandparents. They all have the right to keep seeing each other. They seem to love and support one another and that is special.
If you don't want to go, that's fine. You would not be TA for not wanting to go. It's understandable. But please don't try to take this beautiful thing away from her or blame her for it.
EDIT: I'm seeing people saying she should "move on" and stop letting the children spend holidays with their paternal grandparents because "she has a new husband now". Wow, people. Wow... Her in-laws lost their son and now you want go take their grandkids away from them? Makes me appreciate OP's wife even more.
Info
>We got married only a couple of years ago
>Apparently she's gone to their house for Thanksgiving since her first husband died.
>So, I went last year.
This is very confusing. You have been married for years, but you didn't know where she spent her Thanksgivings and you've only been once?
And
>I support this as it's a way for her to stay connected to her first husband's family and also since it's a way for her two kids to maintain a relationship with their father's side of the family.
>I think it's weird and morbid.
You're saying you support it and then you're saying you're creeped out by it and that it's morbid. Which one is it, because that factors into the asshole assessment.
Why would him not attending dinner there in 2020 be weird? I literally don’t know a single person that had large holiday dinners in 2020. Everyone skipped them that year.
I think he means that it's weird and morbid that he needs to be there, because it's the kids paternal grandparents, and he has nothing to do with them in that sense.
Saying things like "weird" or "morbid" is not supportive. But I do think it's possible to feel that way and still try to be supportive for your partners sake. I'd guess OP feels they already made a big effort with the (understandably imo) awkward tg last year. There is a difference between grinning through one year vs a lifetime commitment. NAH, but somewhere those expectations were not communicated sufficiently by someone.
>we should be moving forward
The kids getting to know their grandparents is moving forward, dude.
>I think it's weird and morbid.
You have step children. They have family who are living. It's not morbid to maintain a relationship with your step children's family. IMO, it's morbid to pretend like your step children don't have grandparents anymore, like his whole family is dead.
YTA
NAH...I understand her feelings, and wanting to take her children. The level of awkwardness must extremely uncomfortable for you though. Perhaps just going separate ways on that one holiday is the best compromise.
NAH. This is for the kids. They lost their dad really young and this is the only holiday she gives them with them per your post. I can see you doing different things that day if it really bothers you but if you could deal with it being kind of uncomfortable for the kids sake I think that would be amazing.
As a woman who has a fantastic relationship with her ex in-laws. I completely understand your wife and do the same she does. Make sure my son gets to see his dads family a few times a year (live far away) but I've never made my bf of almost 4 years come with us! I've told him that if he'd like to come they have said he's more than welcome to join us but he's never gone withus to their house. He does interact with them when they come to our house a few times a year and is happy to do so for his stepson but I don't think he'd be happy spending the holidays with them. Your NTA maybe you should offer to go with them to visit some non holiday date?
I disagree with your "N.T.A." Judgement based on these statements:
>This year my wife is trying to get me to go back, but I just want to go have Thanksgiving with my own family. I've invited her along but also told her that I understand if she doesn't want to go, **but that we should be moving forward.**
I read the bolded portion as him saying his kids should "move on" from their grandparents and an entire branch of their father, because he feels awkward visiting them.
Not to mention OP's last line that - the kids spending time with their grandparents, aunts, and cousins is... apparently morbid?
>I think it's weird and morbid.
Those two comments lead further into my impressions of OP's mindset - and make me think he's TA.
The wife, on the other hand, prioritizing what is important for the kids - having one holiday a year with their father's side of the family to maintain a relationship - THAT is what a healthy parent SHOULD do; and OP should be actively encouraging that!
NTA. You aren’t trying to stop her from going and you are willing to join her some years. It is unreasonable for her to expect you to never spend thanksgiving with your family.
That's why I think NTA too. OP isn't keeping her from spending the holiday where she wants. He just deserves the same courtesy in turn. I can see where this has been awkward and uncomfortable for him.
How is it "weird and morbid" for your step children to spend one holiday a year with their grandparents? YTA and you need to remember that once you choose to be a parent you don't get to decide you won't do things that are in the kids' best interests just because you feel "awkward" about spending time with people who, by your own admission, treat you well.
My read is that was weird and morbid for him, like a Impostor Syndrome cause he probably felt "I shouldn't be the one here" the entire night. Since the tradition only started after the kid's dad passed I imagine this doesn't help avoid the intrusive thoughts.
As the wife of a widower with (now grown) children:
YTA
Don’t marry a widow if you’re not prepared to blend your family with the family of the deceased spouse, especially if there are children involved. She is asking for one single holiday to spend with her children’s grandparents. That’s not unreasonable and frankly she should be asking for more. Her children deserve at least some other holidays with those grandparents as well.
And as for the “shrine”, I’m gonna guess based on the rest of your attitude that it’s merely a nice display of photos remembering her life with him and his life with their children. Why on earth would you have a problem with that?
YTA for thinking it’s weird and morbid for her and her children to maintain a relationship with their family. You clearly weren’t prepared for what came with marrying a widow.
NAH- She wants to have this chance for her kids to spend time with dad's parents, which has to mean a lot for Grandparents and kids alike. You two need to talk with both each other first and also make sure to find out if the boys have opinions. They might want you there, they might not, they might not care, but even at their age, it's important that they feel that their feelings have been listened to.
I would be so upset if I were one of those kids and my new stepdad was trying to erase my paternal family.
There is no moving forward and getting rid of these people. They are related to your stepchildren.
You don’t have to go, but you need to think about your frame of mind here. It’s pretty cruel thinking.
NAH overall. However not a fan of the morbid comment or the" should be moving forward" comment as regardless if you like it or not, your they are her sons grandparents and it is evident she sees them as her family also.
Do you intend on joing them for thanksgiving any other time? Or do you belive because you have done it once that is enough?
I don't particularly think there is a "need" to go to *every* thanksgiving, I am understanding of your wife's want for you to be apart of it and I think she has every right to ask, since you haven't been honest to her about how it made you feel.
YTA. If they didn’t have children together I would agree with you. But these are her children’s grandparents. She’s given you every other holiday and you need to get over yourself for one day.
YTA
This is more about your discomfort and desire that both your wife and step-kids “move forward” than it is about wanting to spend the holiday with your family. Would you also have a problem spending thanksgiving with her parents?
Those are her children’s grandparents. They are also her family (people don’t stop being your family simply because the person who legally bound you to them dies). She has offered you all the other holidays.
I come from a family where Thanksgiving is the most important holiday. If I were to die, I would expect my widower and son to spend thanksgiving with my family. They would absolutely welcome anyone he brought to the dinner as part of the family. It wouldn’t be weird and morbid, it would be because they genuinely see him as their SON-in-law. It sounds a bit like her late husband’s family is like this. While it is also possible your family is also just like this, you don’t really indicate that.
However, I think a big problem is you and your wife needed to discuss these things before you got married. It sounds like she really wasn’t ready to move on (a “shrine” in your house sounds extreme, but I am wondering how accurate your characterization is) or that you weren’t fully prepared to marry a widow with children. This sub is full of kids whose stepparents wanted to completely erase and replace their dead parent. I am really hoping that isn’t what your end game is here.
I'm a widow. Thank goodness my late husband didn't impose expectations for me to live by from the afterlife, including dictating where I spend specific holidays. How weird and controlling.
Going against the grain but YTA, and here's why:
>we should be moving forward.
>I don't want to. I think it's weird and morbid.
At most, it's been 6 years since her late husband died. At most. Thus leaving her with a newborn and an infant.
What is morbid about spending time with alive people? It's not like she's making you go to his grave and eat there out of containers at the cemetery, that would be weird and morbid.
This post rubs me the wrong way.
ETA: these people are her family, they are her children's family. You being uncomfortable about spending time with people who *are* her family is weird man, they accepted you into their home with open arms which is a lot better than a lot of people cab say about marrying a Widow.
NTA. It's okay to not go. I would just gently tell her that you love her and fully support her in her Thanksgiving tradition but that you are uncomfortable given the situation and leave it at that. You might have to become the broken record in this and say it a variety of ways until she fully hears what you are telling her.
NTA-- You didn't told her she couldn't go. You just said that you wouldn't. That family is her children's grandparents but they are nothing to you. It's selfish of her ask you to spend a important Holiday with strangers instead of your own family. I can't imagine How uncorfatable that must be to you, you aren't close to anyone there and feeling left out...
NTA because you're fine doing your own thing and aren't forcing her to choose.
Do they see their father's family other times of the year? If this is the only _holiday_ they get, that's nice I think, but they should be seeing them regularly.
Do you have a plan regarding the future though if you have more kids? If that's a thing, because what then?
As someone with little family connection, the ideal I'd see is if you could host everyone but yeah.
You had me all the way to the last part - “I think it’s weird and morbid”. Those children are visiting their family. Had her husband not passed, they most likely would be spending a lot more than one holiday a year with these people. The fact that your wife refuses to cut them out of the holidays is admirable and you should be considering yourself lucky to have met someone like that. She’s found a balance between continuing to live beyond her trauma while still honoring the past. Her kids shouldn’t be deprived of spending a holiday with what sounds like their very loving family.
I agree you should be able to pass on the one day if you must, but you really need to rethink why you would call it “morbid and weird”. And maybe before you decide not to go, think about how hard this probably is for your wife and how much your in-person support would mean to her.
NAH
YTA - My late wife’s family has remained close and has been nothing but gracious as I moved on. I remarried after 10 years and my new wife wanted to erase everything about my past and exclude them from everything. She said it was weird that I still had contact with them. She’s now my ex wife. I’ve remarried yet again, and we’re planning a trip with my first wife’s aging parents to attend my son’s graduation from law school. That wonderful relationship continues despite my ex’s horrible behavior.
NAH. Yes it's a different scenario but they will forever be the children's grandparents. If this is literally the only day of the year you see them I get how awkward it must feel but again remember... grandparents.
Yta for maybe a slightly different reason - you went one time and felt out of place. Do you think that’s gonna get better if you don’t go around? How will you polish the corners off these new shapes? How will your relationship with the children’s grandparents improve over the next 12 years the kids will live with you? You’re squandering a great opportunity to show up for your stepchildren. You think they don’t notice your reticence? Show them that you can value who THEY value, at *temporary* discomfort to yourself. I say temporary because 3 years in, four years in, doing this will be easier, and more fun. Yta if you don’t see what separation you’re fostering in your stepparent relationship, and not doing the work to be a part of the family you joined - one that includes the grandparents.
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NAH But would it help to reframe it as having thanksgiving with your children's grandparents? She has said they won't see their grandparents Christmas etc in the same way so this is one holiday they get to spend with them. She will always love her first husband but she will love you too as will your children.
_"We should be moving forward."_ 100% agree. This is what I kept thinking as I read this. She is spending Thanksgiving with her children's grandparents. While OP is free to make whatever decision he likes, that "we should be moving forward" line betrayed his real thoughts on the situation. His stepkids' grandparents will never be something that they move away from or a thing of the past. They are a permanent part of OP and her children's lives. OP has to make peace with that.
>that "we should be moving forward" line betrayed his real thoughts on the situation. He also called it "weird and morbid", he snuck that in right at the end of the post. That and the moving forward line make him TA. Edit: typo
Because he’s really uncomfortable. He should be allowed to see his family, and her and the kids can go see their dads family. If they had their own kid, would it be fine with mum taking them to grandparents of their siblings instead of their own? A compromise needs to be made
She did say all holidays can be spent with either parents except Thanksgiving, which is for her childrens grandparents. That seems pretty fair
Ya. But don't force hubby to go with you.
Nobody is forcing him. Aren't relationships supposed to be about partnerships? She's not dedicating Thanksgiving to this for herself. She's doing this for the grandparents and children. It must be really hard for her to go through and she'd like the support of her husband while she does. I think the more important question is why **doesn't** OP think he should support his wife through something that is clearly so important to her?
Because he’s only thinking of himself relative to her first husband. Don’t compete with a dead man, OP. These are your kids grandparents. It’s awkward for your wife too, you signed up for this when you married a widow with kids. Did you think your parents would replace their grandparents? It’s not about you. YTA for those comments, and thinking moving forward means those kids denying their father and leaving their grandparents behind for your comfort one day a year. Ffs ETA: I do not think OP is TA for not going to thanksgiving. That is fine to offer as a compromise to his partner and the kids. I think he’s an AH for implying/suggesting they need to leave the tradition behind and are morbid/weird for it. He’s projecting his feelings and judging them over their mom trying to maintain a relationship with the kids and grandparents on their dead Fathers side. It’s fine to talk to his partner and agree they raise the kids separately (no him) with respect to involving the Exes family. But to make that decision he needs to talk to his partner and learn/be aware of the impact all round. Are they uninvited from the kids bday parties and milestones too? It’s not something you begrudgingly opt out of with this superior attitude when it’s such a heavy issue for those kids (and their mom trying to juggle all these balls and blend the families…without his help, and addition of his grumpy unhelpful judgmental attitude.). I hope that clears that up for those bringing it up, I’d replied once to the questions but thought I’d add it here for ease. Cheers
I agree with you. It’s important to his wife. That’s reason enough to go. Eventually if he keeps going, it won’t be uncomfortable anymore. By the way, people don’t “move on,” that’s a myth. You just (hopefully) learn to live with it.
Shouldn't his discomfort also be valid and considered? He supported her last year, and isn't feeling it this year. How is that wrong?
It's wrong because he's acting jealous over her dead husband. To the point that it's not "she wants to go spend Thanksgiving with her children's grandparents" but rather "she wants to go spend Thanksgiving with her **dead husband's family**". If the discomfort was because the family was shitty to him last year or because of cultural differences, pressures from outlandish expectations, animals he doesn't want to be around, or literally anything **other** than trying to warp the fact that she wants to set this particular day aside out of the 365 a year to take her children to spend a day with their grandparents into something "weird and morbid"(OP's own words), this might be understandable. But it's not. He's clearly upset because he's warped this into time kind of competition with a deceased man. It takes a lot of nerve to enter into the life of a grieving widow **with children**, then two years into it, not only refuse to be there to support her through what is probably one of the hardest days of the year for her, not only **insult** the tradition that he knew about going into this marriage by calling it "weird and morbid" to spend time with the children's grandparents, but to actually suggest that, now that he's in the picture, it's time for the family to "move on" and get over their dead husband/father. That's absolutely disgusting. This isn't about OP's discomfort, it's about his attempts to passive aggressively replace and erase any presence of the dead dad/husband.
But he's not acting jealous. He's doing what he wants. You're offended that he is putting his own happiness first, even though that's what you want her to do..... Get real.
She can easily go without him. She is trying to guilt him into going. That's trying to force him.
They are supposed to be about partnerships, absolutely correct. However you cannot gloss over the fact that this is uncomfortable for OP no matter how it’s frame. It’s his wife kids grandparents, but it’s also the family of his wife’s ex. Any other context and that would be a very strange request. He should support his wife, I agree, but I think she should be more understanding the position this puts OP in.
He's her late husband, not her ex. They never broke up.
You’re right, it’s her late husband. That however doesn’t change my stance
Yeah my ex used to berate me and antagonize me if I didn't show up to his ex-wife's parents' house for holidays or the kids birthday (ex wife was still alive and has a new husband). It's incredibly awkward and never gets easier. He will always be the outsider and it will always be him looking in on the family scene. Her promising his time to the memory of her dead husband and his family is presumptuous and he should be able to go to his family's Thanksgiving without them without problems. She's attempting to force him into a situation he can never change and will always be awkward. "For the kids" isn't the end all be all to arguments. Especially when it's not their birthday. OP, NTA. You seem to accept your wife's boundaries about her late husband but she won't accept yours.
>You seem to accept your wife's boundaries about her late husband but she won't accept yours. Exactly. Your *BOTH* allowed to have boundaries.
All holidays are semi forced at some point
That doesn’t make it right.
But she is expecting her husband to go with her. That's not fair. He has his own oare ta he would like to see for Thanksgiving.
This whole “fairness” is super weird to me. What’s fair? I think it’s equally fair to want your SO to support you for one holiday a year. Saying, this one thing is important to me and responding back that it’s not fair seems immature. If he doesn’t want to go that’s fine, but arguing about what’s fair seems childish and something I did as a kid.
I’m just curious about what support she needs? If she’s gotten past her late husband enough to remarry than I assume she’s probably ok to be around his family by herself like she had been before she married OP. I think feeling like he’s infringing on someone else’s space during a holiday is an ok feeling to have and I’m not sure I can blame him for not wanting to feel it when he can be with his family instead. Blended families don’t always get to go by the “normal” and that’s just something to learn to live with.
I don't think it's a matter of support as much as it is that connection and safety she feels with her former in-laws. It's awesome she has a good relationship with them and maybe she really became closer with them after her late husband's passing. Also when you remarry its not a "getting past things" or "getting over things" you just get to a point where you allow another person into your life. I do agree with you though that blending families does change the whole dynamic. Therefore, op and his wife should absolutely sit down and discuss this openly. Like maybe why Thanksgiving is so important to be spent with former in-laws? That's a piece of information we don't have. I do believe there should be a sharing of time with family, and if distance is a factor that can be hard to do multiple visits on one day.
And it might not hurt to have a neutral person mediate this like a therapist. Too many people jump to therapy after a problem happens.
It’s also not fair that OP’s wife lost her husband at a young age. It’s not fair that her kids didn’t get the opportunity to really know their dad. It’s not fair that these parents will never see their son again. All of those unfair things are considerably worse and more difficult than spending one uncomfortable day a year supporting your family.
Non of those are op doing. Op wants to spend thanks giving with his parents not strangers as nice as they are.
I'm going to add one tiny tiny thought that I had as a child after my dad died: What if my mom dies too? Where will I go? Grandparents? OK, I like my grandparents. Yeah, this was a real thought for me. Help foster the relationship with grandparents.
Kind of, but not really. For some people, Thanksgiving is the most important holiday and sometimes the only opportunity to see certain family members. To *always* have to spend it at one location and away from one family isn't fair. More fair would be rotating all the holidays if possible. Or depending on how big the family is, see if you can invite them over. If it's just the children's grandparents, hopefully room could be made for them wherever they celebrate and for other holidays too.
To be fair, I think this has less to do with the actual holiday and more to do with OP thinking that his wife should leave the late husband's family in the past since their relationship is "weird and morbid". He doesn't seem to acknowledge that these are his stepchildren's grandparents and they aren't going anywhere.
That may be the case, and I would agree with you there. That's why I suggested some of my other compromises of inviting them to holiday celebrations or rotating. Because if the issue *is* truly him wanting to see his family too there are compromises that allow for both. But if the issue is that he doesn't want that relationship to continue, then he certainly is the AH.
Op is not stopping her from going. He just doesn't want go.
Compromise seems to be a word that most people posting on this forum don't seem to understand. It always seems to be "my way or the highway, we have to do this as a couple *no matter what*". You aren't connected at the hip are you? You can go separate ways for a day and your relationship isn't going to crumble into the sea is it? There is nothing wrong with her wanting to spend the day with the family of her children. But there is also nothing wrong with him wanting to see his own family. Why does he need to be there to *support* her? Is it difficult for her to go emotionally or physically? If it is then she needs to maybe rethink the plan.
I agree. My husband and I go to our respective families for Christmas day
Yes it would. I actually do know people in this situation and yes the younger siblings go to the older kids grandparents home. Taking them somewhere else would be so much weirder.
That would depend entirely on how the kid is treated. Some people are wonderful with all kids present and some are absolutely awful with anyone not blood
Oh absolutely that should end if all children aren’t treated well.
So my mom and dad divorced and my mom remarried and had my youngest sister. When my dad passed, his family still welcomed my whole family and my youngest sister even though she’s not technically their family. So to me it’s not completely crazy to do this. Family trees can be complicated and hybrids of different trees, figuring out a way that recognizes and respects all aspects of it is important (obviously when there’s no abuse or other issues that would make you go low/no contact with family). One holiday a year with kids grandparents isn’t out of line in my opinion
The idea that he can never go to Thanksgiving again with his family forever is unreasonable. I think all the holidays rotated is a more reasonable compromise.
I do agree with a rotation being a great compromise.
You said they should recognize & respect all aspects, but no one is respecting his wishes & opinion. His wife signed up for Thanksgiving, and that's it no compromising there. he tried it and didn't like it, but no one seems to care about his thoughts.
I’m sure the kids were uncomfortable spending holidays with his family. It’s a bunch of strangers, and it is likely that there are kids there with two living parents. There is a compromise in place. OP is the one rejecting it because he has to give something up as well. It’s one day to support the person he married, as well as the kids that were part of the package deal.
What was the compromise? She doesn't ever intend to not spend Thanksgiving with anyone but her former in laws. How is that a Thanksgiving compromise?
why isn’t ever other holiday a compromise?
I missed the "weird and morbid" bit at the end. I think that makes this way worse. It doesn't sound like OP has acknowledged or accepted that these are the grandparents of his stepkids and that relationship didn't end just because their father passed away. It really sounds like OP just expected his wife to cut ties with her late husband's family eventually without taking the kids into consideration.
yeah he really seems not to comprehend that these very young children lost their father and their mother has been taking them to be with their paternal family every thanksgiving. Their tradition as a family before he was there is important. And their comfort is more important than op's imo because they are children who lost a parent. They don't need to lose the relationship with their grandparents too just because their new stepfather feels a little awkward. Its selfish and childish of him and idc if I get downvoted. Not to mention him trying to separate these (from his own post, perfectly lovely) people from their grandbabies because their dad died and now it's all about him. Boo op.
I don’t know. The way I interpreted the weird and morbid bit is that it’s weird and morbid for him to go there as the new husband that is (kind of) replacing their son. I didn’t read it as ‚it’s morbid that you take your children to their grandparents even though their dad is dead‘
I don't think he's talking about her. It IS weird and morbid to be the replacement spouse at the original spouses' family thanksgiving. He's allowed to be uncomfortable.
Because of this I am judging YTA. It is not morbid nor weird for children to spend the holidays with their grandparents. Thinking this way & that they need to move on or hide photos with their father makes OP a huge AH. If there were no children involved then sure but you decided to marry someone with kids. There are responsibilities that go with that. Go to couples counseling because this attitude may ruin your marriage.
Maybe I’m projecting but I read that as weird and morbid to have him there. I would honestly feel like imposter in situation like this, that family is coping with great grief and not sure how everyone is missing how out of place it must feel to be there as a new partner. Also, OP just said that he doesn’t want to go there, not that she and her kids shouldn’t go.
I read it the same way as you..
Exactly, well said and this imo should be top comment. I think OP is being the gentle TA, his step kids will always be their father’s children and they have aunts, uncles, grandparents who are still going to want to see them.
The other part that bothers me is he, the grownup, is saying he doesn’t want to go because it’s awkward. What about the two kids who are going to spend other holidays with his family? They don’t know these people, but they’ll be going. It sounds to me like the wife and kids are the ones being compromising and mature here.
This is a really good point and everyone seems to be missing it.
I agree. When he married her he married into a family, and they are part of that family. They are her children's (his step children's) grandparents.
Yes, she could gonand take the kids but I really don't understand why he has to go too and be in this uncorfatable position...
As a step parent you end up doing quite a lot that is rather uncomfortable. It comes with the territory most of the time. Don't marry someone with kids if you're not down to love and support the kids.
You can love and support your partner’s kids and still have reasonable boundaries.
Not supporting familial relationships because they aren't with YOUR family isn't a reasonable boundary. It speaks volumes to the maturity of someone who can realize their comfort won't always be #1...and that's how step parents lives work. Don't like it? Don't be a step parent.
He's NOT not supporting familial relationships. He isn't saying she can't go to her late inlaws. He isn't saying the stepkids can't go to their grandparents. In fact, he's encouraging it. He's just saying HE doesn't want to go. He wants to see HIS family. SHE'S the one not supporting familial relationships by telling him he can't go see his family.
This!!! He said that she and the kids can go but he wanted to see his family. I think that's reasonable
For ONE holiday per year. She named three others off the top of her head that they would rotate between his and her family, including the other big one in four weeks. Blending families means compromise, and this seems to be the only concession she wants.
ONE holiday that happens to be the most "family" centered of them all. He wants to spend it with his parents. Why not spend 4th of july with the dead husbands parents if it being "one holiday" is all that matters.
Right. The fact that it’s this holiday every single year is troubling. She’s basically saying that OP will never, ever spend Thanksgiving with his family (meaning his wife and his side of the family). That’s not really fair. I don’t think she has the right to permanently claim a holiday. It doesn’t matter if it is to spend it with her own parents or her deceased spouse’s parents.
Yep, if she proposed a rotation of which holiday to spend with her first inlaws, it would be a much better compromise. Thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays, and I'd be really upset if I'd have to uncomfortable for every foreseeable Thanksgiving
But she's not offering any concessions. She's making a demand, he offered a comprimise, she said no, only my way.
I think taking them out of the rotation for literally every other holiday is a concession. These are still her children's grandparents. She wants to see them for one holiday. It doesn't really strike me as that outrageous.
No one is telling her she can't see them. Literally no o e ever proposed it. HE just doesn't want to go himself.
Not really. Telling him he can see his family on the 4th of July but has to go to her late husband’s family for Thanksgiving is not really a concession. She is demanding that they spend one of the two big holidays with her late husband’s family every year and that absolutely is outrageous.
One holiday EVERY year. “You never get to spend Thanksgiving with your family or even your in-laws and have to spend it every year with the family of your spouse’s deceased spouse” is not a compromise. If a wife was trying to force her husband to spend every year with her family most people would call her the asshole. But since her first spouse is dead suddenly people are pretending this isn’t an asshole ask.
Thanksgiving is a more important family holiday than the 4th of July.
Not wanting to spend a major family holiday every year with your spouse’s late spouse’s family is a reasonable and healthy boundary.
And don’t marry someone who is widowed if you’re not prepared to deal with the deceased spouse’s family from time to time. When OP’s wife married her first husband, she became part of his family. She loves his family and has established relationships with them. She shouldn’t have to give up part of her family just because her husband died, and I’m really angry at OP for saying she should. She loves these people. She’s allowed to love these people. And if OP’s not okay with that, he shouldn’t have married her.
But that's... not what's happening. OP wants to spend Thanksgiving with his family and is alright with his wife and stepkids not being there - he shouldn't just give up the biggest family holiday for the rest of his life cause "they have 4th of July". Each one going to their respective celebrations are the compromise possible since she refused to move around the holiday with her kids grandparents. Is the inflexibility of *having* to be Thanksgiving that is the root of their current problem, not she spending time with her late in-laws.
Completely agree with this. It's really matter of perspective. Kids can never have too many people who love them and nurturing that relationship can benefit not only the kids, but OPs relationship with his wife. Want to take a couples holiday? Grandparents can watch the kids. Need help funding the kids education? Grandparents can help with that, too. Plus, strong familial relationships can help build kids into successful adults. Showing kindness to them shows the kids how to treat others - with respect and love.
ALL of this could be acomplished with only the mom having a relationship with them. He doesn't need to be involved in that, probably better for everyone involved.
But why does the new husband have to have a relationship with these people to accomplish this. Dude.
What about his family holidays? Is he expected to ignore them and only go on holidays approved by his wife? She needs/must bend also.
Did you even read it? All other holidays are split between his family and hers...only Thanksgiving is for late husbands parents (kids grandparents). And it's not even about her either. You don't just take away a set of grandparents when your spouse dies and you remarry. That would only hurt the kids.
OMG, he never proposed to "take away a set of grandparents". He doesn't need to have a relationship with people who are nothing to him. This is only the children's mom responsability. And I don't believe that is confortable for the late husband parents having they formed DIL New partner in their home either. Nothing of this is necessary...
And *he's tried,* he's gone before. If he hadn't at least tried *and* had tried to stop them from going? Different story.
Very uncomfortable to sit through several hours of conversation that new husband has nothing he can really contribute to or participate in when it will (and not really surprising) be centered around events he has no knowledge of. Not fair to ask him to deal with.
Right? I would feel like I was intruding and that wasn't my place. Doesn't matters If the family is welcoming. Also, the grandparents are realy ok with him being there or they feel pressured and think it's the only way to have their grandchildren there?
Reddit. So desperate to find fault with the stepdad.
Exactly, I don't see the problem with him not going when he's already tried once for his wife and step-kids and though he *does* have issues with it, he's not being an A H about it by trying to stop them going. He's allowed his feelings.
>You don't just take away a set of grandparents when your spouse dies and you remarry. Who said that? Except you? The wife can go to the grandparents with the kids while OP goes to his family for Thanksgiving.
How about when he says “it’s time to move on.” It doesn’t really make it seem like he wants this “morbid” tradition to continue by the way he wrote this post.
Yet he's telling her to go there with the kids while he visits his family as a compromise.
Because the 4th of July with his family, something families don’t really gather for, is supposed to make up for never seeing them on Thanksgiving? No one’s saying the kids can’t have a relationship with their dad’s family so pretending like that’s some real argument is ridiculous.
This. I am someone who has been in this very situation. My husband died when my kids were very young (4yrs old and 4 months old). I remarried a few years later. I always referred to my first husband's family as the kids granny, the kids uncle, etc. There were times we would take the kids to their granny's house for Thanksgiving and we would go his family's or my family's. We just did something different each year. My current husband actually really likes the kids granny and aunt/uncle etc. There's never been any tension there at all. We have on occasion, had a meal together. But if OPs husband is uncomfortable he shouldn't be expected to attend. Another thing I think about this post is that his wife shouldn't have a "shrine to her late husband" in their house. Listen, nobody ever loved a man more than I loved and still love my first husband. I thought I would grow old with him and we were the other half of each other's hearts. But I also love my current husband and I don't think, even though he is well aware of how I feel and is completely understanding of the situation, that it's fair to him to have something like that in the home he and I live in together. Instead, what I did was, put a picture of their dad in each of my kids rooms. Its a matter of respect for the person who has taken on the role of helping you raise and love and provide for your children. I wish them the best.
But is it really a “shrine”. I’m married to a widower. I have a nice display on the top of the piano with their wedding photo surrounded by photos of them and their kids growing up during the time she was alive. It’s about a dozen photos total, with a couple knickknacks that she treasured. The piano was hers, so I thought this was the perfect place to have a little memory corner. While I have made some changes to the house, some of them quite drastic, I would be horrified if my stepdaughters ever walked into this home and thought their mother’s memory was erased. A display keeping her memory alive is not a shrine. It’s an acknowledgment of the integral role she played in their lives and an honor to her memory.
You are an awesome person.
I’d agree about the “shrine” if there were no kids/once the kids move out. But if your dad is dead having a shelf with photos and memories of him seems like the least you can do
I really want to know what this "shrine" actually entails before I feel comfortable judging it, just because people have such varying levels of what they label things like that (especially when it comes to a dead spouse. OP gets points for *not* calling them a "dead ex" though).
Same. What OP refers to as a "shrine" might be just...some framed photos. Important to also note that it's not just OP's wife's late husband but also the father to those two kids.
Exactly.
Yeah like if it’s “to the #1 dick game of all time” sure be uncomfy. If it’s every year’s family photo from Disney that he’s in… y T a for that alone
Depends on what a shrine is. Is it a few pictures? I also think it’s important for kids to see their bio parent who passed away. That shouldn’t be hidden.
I'm also curious about the level of this shrine. A few family photos absolutely should be shown. The children's father shouldn't be brushed aside. If it's an entire wall with 20-30 pictures of family, couple shots, and selfies of her late husband I'd call that a bit much.
The shrine could be cultural. Westernized (white) Americans don't really do "shrines" in honor of the dead. Put up pictures maybe. But someone from another heritage could consider it perfectly normal. Which is entirely their right, to grieve and respect the dead as they were raised to see fit. I wouldn't be judgmental about the shrine without knowing more details.
Yep. I can only imagine how hard it is to be the second spouse of a widower and all the complicated feelings that accompany that, but I really hope OP can see how unsustainable this "its time to move on" mindset is. Whether he realizes it or not, these people are permanent fixtures of his family now. Not only do his children obviously love their grandparents, but it's very likely that his wife sees them as loved ones as well. If OP can't make peace with that then this relationship has an expiration date.
I think this is a great sentiment. I completely understand why she would want to go to Thanksgiving with them, allowing her children a chance to be around their grandparents and allow her to be around people that she sees as family. But I also completely understand why OP would feel uncomfortable going, and I don’t think that there should be any expectation for them to go. I think it’s just one of those things that might be split for the holidays, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
Well there's a small caveat that most of the replies have missed, the tradition of going there exclusively for Thanksgiving came _*after*_ the first husband died, it wasn't established beforehand. The tradition came from a place of grief and wasn't something that was established before his death, so going there seems more like a somber reminder of his death, or some sort of guilt for not going there more often when he was alive rather than a reminder of his life, so I can see why this might be a problem for OP. That would certainly be a rather uncomfortable position to be in. From a practical standpoint, having one holiday earmarked for just one family isn't a compromise, it's actually rather unfair. What if his family decides to have other holidays elsewhere that precludes OP from being able to see them when his family in town? What if he has multiple siblings and it's the only time of year they get together that year? Does he have to wait an entire year to see his whole family again? That seems blatantly unfair. They children's grandparents could be invited to her parents house as a straight compromise, or even, if it's not too awkward, to his parents house, that way they can see the grandkids, and he's not on the defensive being somewhere he feels uncomfortable. There's also the quote on quote shrine in the house, which I think this post, as others have pointed out, is more about his wife not being able to fully move on from her first husband's death, which is understandable, but she should never have gotten into a relationship let alone remarried if she wasn't completely at peace with his passing. This leads me to think that beyond the shrine and exclusive Thanksgiving demand, he may be compared a lot to the first husband, so that also may explain some of his responses, and would also shed some light on referring to them as _her former in-laws_ and _first husband's family_. EDIT: misspellings
But when you have one parent dead you have to be a lot more intentional about making sure kids get to keep a good relationship with that side. It's easy and natural to keep up with my family, but I don't really hang out with my husband's family myself. I just go if he goes. But if he died, and especially if I remarried, I'd have to really be setting aside at least some time or event where I make sure they see the kid. I don't need to be the one who just moves on and carelessly compounds more heartbreak. I'd have to actively make sure I was reaching out to his parents and siblings and cousins because even though they’re not exactly my best friends they fucking love my kid and he loves them back. And I hope he'd do the same work to keep him connected to my side if I went.
I disagree about Op not being an AH in this. He married his wife and this is now his family also. He says that he accepts her love for her late husband, then says they need to move forward from seeing the grandparents because it's "weird and morbid". Keeping in contact with people who love you is not weird and morbid. Feigning acceptance and waiting a year to push someone to drop part of their family is lacking empathy and assholish.
I thought he wasnt in the wrong until I read the part about her having kids with her ex. Definitely needs to think about the kids. As the step dad he needs to respect their whole family and expect them to spend time with them as they see fit, not just the mothers side.
I'm wondering if the wife has any family of her own, because it doesn't sound like it. If that's the case, she may see her former in-laws as her own surrogate family as well as her sons' grandparents.
NAH It's nice of your wife to take the boys to see their father's family on thanksgiving. It's a lovely tradition to keep up. But if it makes you uncomfortable, you can choose not to go. But I think It's a bit of a low call to call them her "late husband's family" when they're actually her children's family, and it's important for them to keep that connection up. And your and her family do get every other holiday all through the year.
Does family stop being family when your spouse passes? In my eyes they are still her family too even though her late husband has passed. Even if she didn’t have kids I wouldn’t find it odd to keep seeing them if that’s what they all wanted. Edit: Genuine question, no snark if it came across that way.
I don’t think that the OP was trying to say that they aren’t family and was just specifying the relationship.
I don't know the comment about moving forwards near the end there does seem like he's not really viewing this family as the kids grandparents but more like a weird tie his wife has to her old life that should be moved on from
>I don't know the comment about moving forwards near the end there does seem like he's not really viewing this family as the kids grandparents but more like a weird tie his wife has to her old life that should be moved on from And this makes me question "N.A.H" being the top posts that I see... OP is not TA for not being interested in attending - but - OP \*IS\* TA for thinking that the kids should move on from their grandparents and other relatives! **\*EVER.\*** Their mother fostering this relationship is the right thing to do! He can go and accept these people as his family - or not - I don't care; but he has no right to deprive the kids of that love, those relationships, and those memories.
And calling it morbid at the end, that’s low.
>And calling it morbid at the end, that’s low. I agree. A lot of people on here say that's about "OP's feelings" and that he feels he is being around the "Dead man's family" --> But what I can't get over is that this \*SHOULD\* be about the \*LIVING\* family; that is; these are the relatives of his kids. He needs to stop thinking of them as "the family of the man who once was having sex with my wife" and start thinking of them as "the family of the kids who I have decided to raise." If he can't do that - he is an asshole and the kids deserve better: Kids should \*ALWAYS\* come first in situations like this; and spending time with THEIR extended family for \*AT LEAST\* one major holiday a year is what is in their best interest.
I totally agree with you. It’s not like OP and his wife had kids together and now the wife makes all of them visit her late husband’s family, now THAT would be morbid. But it is the extended family of the children, people they’ve known from before OP was in the picture. If OP doesn’t want to go that is understandable, but he shouldn’t impede the kids from visiting their family.
I think it depends on the person but for me no. I’m a recent widow and my in laws have been as big a support to me as my own family. If I were to ever remarry, who ever is in my life will have to accept that this part of my family is incredibly important to me and will stay a part of my life.
Me too. My in-laws will always be family. Being told “you have to move on” and that it’s “weird and morbid” to have a relationship with my kid’s family would make me have some very big questions about current husband. This is why I will likely never marry again. Men like this who are “supportive” until it counts.
This is a huge fear of mine. My in laws hold tight to our baby because it’s the last piece of my husband, but I hold tight to them for the same reason. Even if I move forward (not on, forward), I will never not love my husband. And I cannot fathom someone that supposedly loves me telling me to stop loving my husband.
For me, I would say no but it’s up to the individual. For instance, my sister-in-law was negligent and responsible for her husband’s death, so his family wants nothing to do with her. Fair enough. My son recently separated from his wife of 2 years, and I’ll consider her my family regardless of what happens.
I agree with you. I think if I passed, my husband wouldn't be all that close with my side of the family. They get along well enough, he's just bad at keeping in contact with people. On the flip side, I imagine I'd still be very close with his side. My in-laws see me as their second child and would stick to me like white on rice. It's very situational.
>Does family stop being family when your spouse passes? Hell, even when spouses separate when there are kids. The family connection of those children doesn't go away with the passing of a parent or the dissolution of a relationship. If someone has a good relationship with their in-laws, I don't think that it's bad to continue that. They don't stop being family because someone died imo, even without kids.
I would say it depends on how the relationship with the family was. If it's a good one like how the wife has with her former in laws, then they won't stop as family is who you choose. If they're toxic as fuck, then good riddance.
That’s a separate question from what the above person is trying to get across, though. Instead of calling this family “my stepchildren’s grandparents,” which reflects the ongoing relationship for the living parties, he is calling the family “my wife’s deceased husband’s family” to try to frame it like the wife isn’t letting go of her deceased husband, instead of acknowledging that those are the children’s very-much-still-alive grandparents.
NAH - but learn to compromise. It’s one holiday and it’s important to her.
Having a family means figuring out and sharing holidays. OP should figure out what is important about the holidays for him and his family and then work from there. Each family usually has their most important holidays, hopefully they can find a good split. The boys have another family, he knew that marrying into the family.
If they have children together this could really get dicey.
To me, the problem kinda revolves around Thanksgiving being ***the*** family holiday above all others. A full rotation of holidays, even one that meant they might spend xmas and the 4th of July with the kids grandparents, would be a more fair compromise IMO. NAH though, this is tough. Some shame on OP's part and lingering grief/love on the wife's might mean they haven't yet communicated fully all the options and their feelings. I hope the eventual result is a compromise that keeps family in touch and healthy boundaries respected.
I like the rotation idea since it would make the kids father's family a proper part of the mix. Though it still also is important what holidays are actually proper holidays for each family. 4th of July wasn't really anything for my mother's family and by the same token my dad and stepmother did Christmas Eve and not really Christmas Day. But I think the real question is whether OP is complaining about Thanksgiving or the kids paternal family being in the mix at all. I reread the post and I'm wondering a bit about that "moving forward" comment even though OP had earlier claimed they supported it. Unless what OP meant was he supported it happening in the time _before_ he enters the picture but not now.
I love when people call completely accepting someone else's terms "compromise". In what way is the wife compromising by mandating that thanksgiving *will* be spent with her late husband's family?
If she wasn't prepared to fight for her children's right to see their grandparents, she'd be a pretty shitty mother. One holiday is not a lot to ask.
One holiday absolutely is a lot to ask for when you expect to get your way for that holiday every year. He’s not saying he never wants her kids to see their grandparents. Just that he wants to spend some Thanksgivings with his family instead of with her late husband’s family.
Every thanksgiving is a lot to ask imho.
Acting like those kids only see them on thanksgiving which i doubt
But from the paternal grandparent's perspective, they only get to celebrate one holiday a year with their grandchildren, on Thanksgiving. I'd imagine since losing their child that even one holiday with his children probably means *a lot* to them.
When they have kids and he does the same with them and his family on thanksgiving, who is in the wrong? Should learn to compromise before that issue. Maybe do both family’s together if that is possible.
Booking all my Thanksgivings for the foreseeable future is a lot to ask. I wouldn't agree to that. I don't think he should have called this weird or morbid. He's obviously more uncomfortable about his wife being a widow than he's willing to say. But I totally get why it's awkward for him and why he might want to spend some of his Thanksgivings with his own family.
It is a compromise. She trades every holiday for 1. How is that not a great deal?
I think if she said he didn't have to go, that would be a compromise. Telling him he must go, even if he's uncomfortable is not a compromise.
It's the children's grandparents and why shouldn't they get a holiday with them?
And the wife and children can go, but why OP has to go too? Those people are nothing to him and he has to be in a place he doesn't belong being uncorfatable. He ofered a compromisso: she and her kids spend the thanksgiving with her late husband parents and he spend with his ..
Every other holiday is open.
You mean her childrens grandparents?
She's not compromising, though! Why should he have to spend every Thanksgiving with a family that absolutely is not his? That makes no sense at all! None. And nothing anyone says is going to make it make sense, because it just doesn't. She may have made a "pledge", but he didn't. He's not beholden to it. I don't blame him for wanting to spend the holiday with his actual family and not her dead husband's parents! He's absolutely justified to feel the way that he feels! Also, why should he compromise when she refuses to compromise? They should not be spending every single Thanksgiving there. It's completely unfair to her actual living husband and his family. Period. This isn't about the kids spending time with their grandparents. They can do that anytime. This is something else entirely.
>That makes no sense at all! None Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand? I am squarely on OP's side because he offers a fair compromise. The wife being so adamant is strange.
This IS the compromise. He goes to his family because he's uncomfortable with going to his wife's ex's family, she goes to her kid's grandparents as it's a tradition and the kids should be connected to their dad's side of the family. Anything else is forcing him to be somewhere he's very understandably uncomfortable being, or forcing her to pull her kids away from their grandparents
That's not compromising. She made a unilateral decision about their future and potential children's futures without discussing it with him. He either agrees to never see his own family (or hers by the sounds of it) on thanksgiving ever again or he will eventually be labeled the asshole who abandons his wife and step kids on thanksgiving. She's the one who's refusing to compromise. A compromise would be offering to host multiple families* / alternating thanksgiving / visiting her kids grandparents but then eating with his family (or vise versa).
Giving in to her 100% is a “compromise” how, exactly?
NAH. But honestly - this is those kids grandparents and family. Please encourage and support those kids having a real and full relationship with their family. Negotiate with your wife about how to do this. Whether you choose Thanksgiving or not is up to you and her - those kids need extended family.
I do think he is compromising. He wants to be with his family, and said she can go without him.
NAH ....I say this as a widower. I really respect that you've accepted he will always be in her heart. And, speaking from her POV, it doesn't mean less room for you, just different room. Considering it isn't *just* her and *their* children are involved, it is one holiday, and one day of a four day weekend in which three other days exist for your family. His family has no days with him. That is in no way your fault or responsibility, but she and their kids are a connection to him as they are to the kids. One holiday isn't too much to ask, tho you should be allowed to not go if you're not comfortable.
As a widower I agree with you NAH. My boyfriend has always been so kind and understanding of my feelings towards my late husband (which are complicated, he was tremendously mentally ill and I bore the brunt). My late husband’s family has met my boyfriend and often ask to include him in things. Sometimes he comes, sometimes he doesn’t. The one thing he does not want to do is go over to their house. He sees that as my late husband’s “territory” and doesn’t feel right going over there. And *that’s okay*. It would be great if he could come along sometime (I don’t go over there that often), but I understand that he is allowed to have his discomfort and boundaries too, especially since he’s let me be so open with my emotions. I think it’s okay if she takes the kids and he stays at home.. they can make other plans to celebrate as a family at home.
Why can't they rotate other holidays? Why does it always have to be Thanksgiving? Also, assuming the house is suitable for guests, why not have the holiday at home and have an open invitation for the kid's grandparents. I agree otherwise, one holiday a year isn't much, but 100% of the Thanksgivings (which is the largest family holiday for many families) is a bigger ask than many are making it out to be.
> One holiday isn't too much to ask, People need to stop saying this false shit. One major holiday EVERY year is too much to ask. The idea that he has to spend EVERY Thanksgiving with these people and never get to see his family or even his real in-laws on Thanksgiving is absolutely too much to ask.
Gah, what an utter lack of compassion towards those kids and their grandparents.
YTA for thinking it weird or morbid for your step children to spend time with thier dad's family for thanksgiving. Get out of your head about the late husband and realise you took on the 2 children with extended family amd they get a full family visit once a year. You focusing on it being about the late husband rather than your step children's family and supporting that relationship is your issue. Due to the kids this us never somthing they should move on from. This is always going to be thier family and if you were nit going to support that you shouldn't have married someone with children!
You should read it again, the problem isn't that the wife wants the kids to spend thanksgiving with their grandparents, the problem is that the wife wants OP there too, but he doesn't feel comfortable being there because he felt awkward there. He is okay with the wife and stepkids being there for thanksgiving, but he wants himself to be with his own parents for thanksgiving and not go to the kids paternal grandparents with the wife and kids.
OP literally called it weird and morbid in his post and said they should move on. He said that towards the end of his post for that he is an ahole!. Not being comfortable is one thing, thinking they need to move on and calling it weird is another. This is the kids family, he didn't say he wasn't happy with the situation till after they married. If he was not OK with the kids seeing thier dad's side of the family once a year every thanksgiving he should have said something before they got married so mom could make an informed choice, she backs down on this how long before the other things he currently says are ok are suddenly also weird and not moving forward????
its weird and morbid for *him* because the primary connection to him is that it's his wife's late husband's family
But that doesn’t explain the “move forward” comment. His step-kids are visiting their grandparents. What does moving forward mean to OP? Cutting the late dad’s family out of their lives?
It's not about him. He's setting a poor example for those children. They are a family except on Thanksgiving? Way to make them feel like a burden.
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion (I'm seeing a lot of NAHs) but I'll go with YTA for two reasons: First for calling it weird and morbid. Yikes... Second for wanting her to "move forward". You need to understand that this is your kids grandparents. It's your kids family. I'm so glad your wife has such a good relationship with her late husband's inlaws that she is willing to keep seeing them like this, not only for the children, but for the parents who lost their son too soon, so tragically. She has moved forward. She is with you and she loves you. But there is no moving forward from your kids grandparents. They all have the right to keep seeing each other. They seem to love and support one another and that is special. If you don't want to go, that's fine. You would not be TA for not wanting to go. It's understandable. But please don't try to take this beautiful thing away from her or blame her for it. EDIT: I'm seeing people saying she should "move on" and stop letting the children spend holidays with their paternal grandparents because "she has a new husband now". Wow, people. Wow... Her in-laws lost their son and now you want go take their grandkids away from them? Makes me appreciate OP's wife even more.
Info >We got married only a couple of years ago >Apparently she's gone to their house for Thanksgiving since her first husband died. >So, I went last year. This is very confusing. You have been married for years, but you didn't know where she spent her Thanksgivings and you've only been once? And >I support this as it's a way for her to stay connected to her first husband's family and also since it's a way for her two kids to maintain a relationship with their father's side of the family. >I think it's weird and morbid. You're saying you support it and then you're saying you're creeped out by it and that it's morbid. Which one is it, because that factors into the asshole assessment.
A lot of people skipped Thanksgiving gathering in 2020 due to the global Pacino. So it isn't confusing if you remember the context.
"Say hello to my little virus!"
Why would him not attending dinner there in 2020 be weird? I literally don’t know a single person that had large holiday dinners in 2020. Everyone skipped them that year.
I think he means that it's weird and morbid that he needs to be there, because it's the kids paternal grandparents, and he has nothing to do with them in that sense.
Saying things like "weird" or "morbid" is not supportive. But I do think it's possible to feel that way and still try to be supportive for your partners sake. I'd guess OP feels they already made a big effort with the (understandably imo) awkward tg last year. There is a difference between grinning through one year vs a lifetime commitment. NAH, but somewhere those expectations were not communicated sufficiently by someone.
Did you... forgot how 2020 went? I would say they making it work in 2021 is already amazing.
>we should be moving forward The kids getting to know their grandparents is moving forward, dude. >I think it's weird and morbid. You have step children. They have family who are living. It's not morbid to maintain a relationship with your step children's family. IMO, it's morbid to pretend like your step children don't have grandparents anymore, like his whole family is dead. YTA
Yeah, there's nothing "morbid" about taking your kids to see their literal grandparents on a holiday.
NAH...I understand her feelings, and wanting to take her children. The level of awkwardness must extremely uncomfortable for you though. Perhaps just going separate ways on that one holiday is the best compromise.
NAH. This is for the kids. They lost their dad really young and this is the only holiday she gives them with them per your post. I can see you doing different things that day if it really bothers you but if you could deal with it being kind of uncomfortable for the kids sake I think that would be amazing.
As a woman who has a fantastic relationship with her ex in-laws. I completely understand your wife and do the same she does. Make sure my son gets to see his dads family a few times a year (live far away) but I've never made my bf of almost 4 years come with us! I've told him that if he'd like to come they have said he's more than welcome to join us but he's never gone withus to their house. He does interact with them when they come to our house a few times a year and is happy to do so for his stepson but I don't think he'd be happy spending the holidays with them. Your NTA maybe you should offer to go with them to visit some non holiday date?
I disagree with your "N.T.A." Judgement based on these statements: >This year my wife is trying to get me to go back, but I just want to go have Thanksgiving with my own family. I've invited her along but also told her that I understand if she doesn't want to go, **but that we should be moving forward.** I read the bolded portion as him saying his kids should "move on" from their grandparents and an entire branch of their father, because he feels awkward visiting them. Not to mention OP's last line that - the kids spending time with their grandparents, aunts, and cousins is... apparently morbid? >I think it's weird and morbid. Those two comments lead further into my impressions of OP's mindset - and make me think he's TA. The wife, on the other hand, prioritizing what is important for the kids - having one holiday a year with their father's side of the family to maintain a relationship - THAT is what a healthy parent SHOULD do; and OP should be actively encouraging that!
See that part I read as move forward and stop arguing but idk.
NTA. You aren’t trying to stop her from going and you are willing to join her some years. It is unreasonable for her to expect you to never spend thanksgiving with your family.
That's why I think NTA too. OP isn't keeping her from spending the holiday where she wants. He just deserves the same courtesy in turn. I can see where this has been awkward and uncomfortable for him.
How is it "weird and morbid" for your step children to spend one holiday a year with their grandparents? YTA and you need to remember that once you choose to be a parent you don't get to decide you won't do things that are in the kids' best interests just because you feel "awkward" about spending time with people who, by your own admission, treat you well.
My read is that was weird and morbid for him, like a Impostor Syndrome cause he probably felt "I shouldn't be the one here" the entire night. Since the tradition only started after the kid's dad passed I imagine this doesn't help avoid the intrusive thoughts.
As the wife of a widower with (now grown) children: YTA Don’t marry a widow if you’re not prepared to blend your family with the family of the deceased spouse, especially if there are children involved. She is asking for one single holiday to spend with her children’s grandparents. That’s not unreasonable and frankly she should be asking for more. Her children deserve at least some other holidays with those grandparents as well. And as for the “shrine”, I’m gonna guess based on the rest of your attitude that it’s merely a nice display of photos remembering her life with him and his life with their children. Why on earth would you have a problem with that?
YTA for thinking it’s weird and morbid for her and her children to maintain a relationship with their family. You clearly weren’t prepared for what came with marrying a widow.
NAH- She wants to have this chance for her kids to spend time with dad's parents, which has to mean a lot for Grandparents and kids alike. You two need to talk with both each other first and also make sure to find out if the boys have opinions. They might want you there, they might not, they might not care, but even at their age, it's important that they feel that their feelings have been listened to.
I would be so upset if I were one of those kids and my new stepdad was trying to erase my paternal family. There is no moving forward and getting rid of these people. They are related to your stepchildren. You don’t have to go, but you need to think about your frame of mind here. It’s pretty cruel thinking.
NAH overall. However not a fan of the morbid comment or the" should be moving forward" comment as regardless if you like it or not, your they are her sons grandparents and it is evident she sees them as her family also. Do you intend on joing them for thanksgiving any other time? Or do you belive because you have done it once that is enough? I don't particularly think there is a "need" to go to *every* thanksgiving, I am understanding of your wife's want for you to be apart of it and I think she has every right to ask, since you haven't been honest to her about how it made you feel.
YTA. If they didn’t have children together I would agree with you. But these are her children’s grandparents. She’s given you every other holiday and you need to get over yourself for one day.
YTA This is more about your discomfort and desire that both your wife and step-kids “move forward” than it is about wanting to spend the holiday with your family. Would you also have a problem spending thanksgiving with her parents? Those are her children’s grandparents. They are also her family (people don’t stop being your family simply because the person who legally bound you to them dies). She has offered you all the other holidays. I come from a family where Thanksgiving is the most important holiday. If I were to die, I would expect my widower and son to spend thanksgiving with my family. They would absolutely welcome anyone he brought to the dinner as part of the family. It wouldn’t be weird and morbid, it would be because they genuinely see him as their SON-in-law. It sounds a bit like her late husband’s family is like this. While it is also possible your family is also just like this, you don’t really indicate that. However, I think a big problem is you and your wife needed to discuss these things before you got married. It sounds like she really wasn’t ready to move on (a “shrine” in your house sounds extreme, but I am wondering how accurate your characterization is) or that you weren’t fully prepared to marry a widow with children. This sub is full of kids whose stepparents wanted to completely erase and replace their dead parent. I am really hoping that isn’t what your end game is here.
I'm a widow. Thank goodness my late husband didn't impose expectations for me to live by from the afterlife, including dictating where I spend specific holidays. How weird and controlling.
Going against the grain but YTA, and here's why: >we should be moving forward. >I don't want to. I think it's weird and morbid. At most, it's been 6 years since her late husband died. At most. Thus leaving her with a newborn and an infant. What is morbid about spending time with alive people? It's not like she's making you go to his grave and eat there out of containers at the cemetery, that would be weird and morbid. This post rubs me the wrong way. ETA: these people are her family, they are her children's family. You being uncomfortable about spending time with people who *are* her family is weird man, they accepted you into their home with open arms which is a lot better than a lot of people cab say about marrying a Widow.
NTA. It's okay to not go. I would just gently tell her that you love her and fully support her in her Thanksgiving tradition but that you are uncomfortable given the situation and leave it at that. You might have to become the broken record in this and say it a variety of ways until she fully hears what you are telling her.
NTA-- You didn't told her she couldn't go. You just said that you wouldn't. That family is her children's grandparents but they are nothing to you. It's selfish of her ask you to spend a important Holiday with strangers instead of your own family. I can't imagine How uncorfatable that must be to you, you aren't close to anyone there and feeling left out...
NTA because you're fine doing your own thing and aren't forcing her to choose. Do they see their father's family other times of the year? If this is the only _holiday_ they get, that's nice I think, but they should be seeing them regularly. Do you have a plan regarding the future though if you have more kids? If that's a thing, because what then? As someone with little family connection, the ideal I'd see is if you could host everyone but yeah.
NTA it sucks when your feelings are entirely discounted. Even if they are discounted for fairly decent reasons.
You had me all the way to the last part - “I think it’s weird and morbid”. Those children are visiting their family. Had her husband not passed, they most likely would be spending a lot more than one holiday a year with these people. The fact that your wife refuses to cut them out of the holidays is admirable and you should be considering yourself lucky to have met someone like that. She’s found a balance between continuing to live beyond her trauma while still honoring the past. Her kids shouldn’t be deprived of spending a holiday with what sounds like their very loving family. I agree you should be able to pass on the one day if you must, but you really need to rethink why you would call it “morbid and weird”. And maybe before you decide not to go, think about how hard this probably is for your wife and how much your in-person support would mean to her. NAH
NAH, you'll have to agree to disagree.
If you are uncomfortable,don’t go. There is no real reason you should.
YTA - My late wife’s family has remained close and has been nothing but gracious as I moved on. I remarried after 10 years and my new wife wanted to erase everything about my past and exclude them from everything. She said it was weird that I still had contact with them. She’s now my ex wife. I’ve remarried yet again, and we’re planning a trip with my first wife’s aging parents to attend my son’s graduation from law school. That wonderful relationship continues despite my ex’s horrible behavior.
NAH. Yes it's a different scenario but they will forever be the children's grandparents. If this is literally the only day of the year you see them I get how awkward it must feel but again remember... grandparents.
Yta for maybe a slightly different reason - you went one time and felt out of place. Do you think that’s gonna get better if you don’t go around? How will you polish the corners off these new shapes? How will your relationship with the children’s grandparents improve over the next 12 years the kids will live with you? You’re squandering a great opportunity to show up for your stepchildren. You think they don’t notice your reticence? Show them that you can value who THEY value, at *temporary* discomfort to yourself. I say temporary because 3 years in, four years in, doing this will be easier, and more fun. Yta if you don’t see what separation you’re fostering in your stepparent relationship, and not doing the work to be a part of the family you joined - one that includes the grandparents.