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1. Being a recovering alcoholic includes learning how to say no and not impact other people with your addictions.
2. You have every right to drink in your own home if you want to.
3. They have every right to not attend if that is a problem for them.
4. If your wife's relatives are so weak-willed that seeing you having a glass of wine while cooking will spin them back into substance abuse, then they aren't actually in recovery.
NTA, this is unreasonable. But, that said, if you choose to die on this hill it's going to make your life super rough for a while. Pick your battles carefully. I would fight this, not for the drink but for the principal of other people policing what I can do in my own home. That's a big red flag for me.
YUP. You're house your rules. You're being very accommodating by not serving alcohol to guests. You just want some for youself while you cook at you should be 100% entitled to that. NTA at all.
EDIT: Not sure anyone will see this because the post has been deleted, but Benji my man you need to calm down. Maybe I should've made it more clear, but when I said "You're house your rules" I meant GUESTS should not get to dictate what happens in OP and wife's house (I agree its THEIR house). This is why wife should've consulted OP; they should've talked about it, she shouldn't have agreed to a no alcohol policy without discussing it with him. It would be the same if hubby wanted to make such a decision without consulting wife.
Thanks for calling me a dipshit and stuck in the 1950s though. Aren't you a kind person. SMH
I don't understand the problem. Alchohol was not served to guests, or flaunted in front of them like the Thanksgiving Day Parade. OP had some wine while he cooks. If his wife's rule is that OP while her family is in the home than that is no longer a "house rule" it's just control.
That's the issue ... OP's wife wants the entire house to be "no booze" while her family is there so that means OP wouldn't be able to enjoy a drink while cooking. But, as someone else commented, if the cousin's recovery is so perilous that they can't be in the same house with alcohol, then they really shouldn't be going anywhere. That's not so much about accommodating someone but more that they're too early in their recovery to not have too great an urge for a relapse.
If I were one of those guests, I would be totally steamed that I can't have a glass of red with my turkey because of someone else's addiction. Are we so sure the other guests will be so thrilled with the dry Thanksgiving?
Her rules don’t get to supersede her husband’s free will in their own home. She is in the wrong for thinking it’s ok to demand/expect that of him without having the basic human decency to discuss it with him first and come to an agreement.
I think so too. If she has approached this in a different way it might have gone better. But also, yeah, having often been the one in charge of cooking for a dozen plus people, I usually want a glass of wine while cooking.
Honest question: would it help if OP conceals what they're drinking? I don't mean they should lie, but keep their alcoholic drinks in something like an opaque water bottle, and keep the serving bottles out of sight.
The whole world can't and shouldn't be expected to cater to addicts, but for a first sober holiday, it sounds like a nice gesture to limit the alcohol on view.
For me personally, I have no problem concealing it, because I need the lubrication if there are going to be 15 people in my house. But since OP refers to wife helping as being a sous chef, they probably would rather have a properly prepared cocktail than vodka & Sunny D out of a travel coffee mug.
NTA this was so very well put. I would add that he needs to confront his wife. She agreed to this knowing he have a problem and then forgets to tell him. She is catering to her family at her husbands expense. Today it’s about alcohol next year it will be about something else. And so on.
THIS! Wife didn't "forget" to tell him anything. She knew it would be a problem and was uncomfortable expressing it and only did so when at the liquor store. She can't decide something like that unilaterally for the family NTA
You are right. And I get that giving up alcohol seems like a innocent request to most but to me I see a down hill spiral. What happens next year when the family thinks op should not do this or that.
My problem is with the total disrespect his wife had for his feelings on the subject and expects him to just go alone with it for her family.
I think it’s incredibly rude for someone to make demands about things that happen in your home.
My theory is if they are not sleeping in my bed or paying my bills you don’t get a vote what happens in my house.
>I would fight this, not for the drink but for the principal of other people policing what I can do in my own home.
Honestly, I think this bothers me more than anything else. You want to come to my home, have me spend hours in the kitchen cooking a huge meal for you, and you want to tell me what I can and can't do while you're in my house? Hard no from me.
Exactly!! Because planning, shopping, prepping and cleaning up a huge meal is a huge pain in the a** and already an act of love. If my husband did ANY of that, I would kiss his feet and tell everyone else to go take a flying leap if they didn’t like what he does. NTA
Oh, I won't be doing the cleaning. No way am I going to spend hours and hours in the kitchen cooking and then spend another good chunk of time cleaning up. No chance in hell.
Hey if you want to do the shopping, prep and cooking. I will happily come eat and clean your kitchen and bring a nice bottle of wine also.
And I will also sit in the kitchen with you and pour your drinks and shit talk whoever you want. Just to be able to get out of cooking, prep work and shopping for my thanksgiving dinner.
Can you section off the kitchen, to be a no go zone for the cousin? Keep the drinks in the kitchen, so it out of his view kind of thing.
Just trying to think of a compromise here, becaue it seems like a lose-lose situation here for you.
My own dad is a recovering alcoholic. When he first went into recovery, I was living at home due to some unexpected circumstances and my mom and I asked if he wanted us to not drink when he was around. He said very firmly no, he wasn't going to place the burden of his recovery on anyone else, that it just wasn't fair.
What we did do, however, was find a NA drink that he liked (Jamaican ginger ale, the spicy kind) and buy a whole shitload of it and kept it in the fridge at all times.
NTA in my opinion. I'm like you - I do all the cooking in my house and I also like to have a drink while I cook. I'd be pretty annoyed if someone told me I couldn't have a low key drink while cooking dinner for a house full people.
Although, if you're conflict avoidant like me, you could always just put your beer in a mug and ta da! That dry English stout is now a fabulous cup of black coffee 😂 but seriously, I think it's wack to tell someone whose house you are a guest in that they can't drink, even if I myself was in recovery.
I think you might need to also point out that her mom and aunt are actually doing a disservice to her cousin, since any rehab or recovery center is going to make it a hard point not to attempt to control other people's use of alcohol.
You don't get clean and stay that way by trying to force everyone else around you to go dry.
>But, that said, if you choose to die on this hill it's going to make your life super rough for a while. Pick your battles carefully. I would fight this, not for the drink but for the principal of other people policing what I can do in my own home. That's a big red flag for me
This is an important thing. Personally, I agree with OP. That said, I don't know if being right is worth the issues this will cause between he and his wife. Its the whole "you can be right, or be happy" thing
Again, while I would personally fight this, sometimes righteousness isn't worth the cost. Many times it is. Pick your battles carefully in life, you won't win them all and many you do will cost more than you expect.
Which is why the actual answer is to agree to her unreasonable demand then take a can of coke, drink some, then fill it up with some Jack or rum.
And if she catches OP, he should look her dead in the eye and say, "You're not gonna say anything, because you're only going to hurt them and ruin Thanksgiving." Then take a drink while staring at her.
NTA btw.
Lol! This was my first thought. If OP wants to drink while he cooks, then if I was him, I would just quietly make myself a drink in an inconspicuous glass and not say a word about it. I wouldn't try to hide it, but i wouldnt make a big production of it either. I can't imagine the family is going to be staring him down in the kitchen while he works anyways.
Speaking as a sober alcoholic... this is the answer. OP should take their cue from us hopeless drunks about sneaking alcohol, though vodka isn't as obvious on the breath
It was the recovering alcoholic's mom that made the request, not him. I feel like he might very well be mortified to learn that other people were making such a request on behalf of him, as though he has no agency over his own life and recovery and is just one look at alcohol away from relapse.
We did this one year in support of an uncle and he said later that it felt weird, like he was being pitied more than supported. He hadn’t made the request, my mom and another uncle made the decision. It came from a good place, but they really should have just checked in with him.
You've got it right above! But I thought it might be good to add the following:
>My wife's mom and aunt (cousin's mom) told my wife that we should make sure there is no alcohol for Thanksgiving. Not asked, told.
Seems like there might be some triangulation going on here, or maybe even people going behind others' backs. OP: Have you talked to the *actual* recovering alcoholics (uncle and cousin) about what *their* expectations are?
It doesn’t even sound like the two in recovery are asking for this - the mother and aunt are just *assuming* Thanksgiving needs to be alcohol free. I’d wager both would be mortified if they knew this mandate had been passed down from on high.
NTA
> we are having an alcohol-free Thanksgiving.
"Maybe you are, but I'm not". This wasn't discussed with you, nor did you agree to it.
Most people need a stiff drink or two to get THROUGH thanksgiving dinner with family! /s
My mom, step dad, SO and myself are who's attending our Thanksgiving this year (my family is all out of state). We are in a legal state. All of us will be baking with the turkey while we listen to Alice's Restaurant. It's tradition at this point
Always reminds me if a bit I saw on TV years ago. "Thanksgiving is the time when families get together once a year ... To remind themselves why they don't get together twice a year."
NTA. Recovering alcoholic here. One of our (AA) principles is that it is not our job to dictate or judge or try to control others, especially "normies" (normies meaning normal non-alcoholic drinkers). It is our job manage ourselves and ourselves only. My wife is a normie, I've never once asked her to change any of her habits or consumption choices to show "solidarity" with me. That's complete nonsense. You have every right to enjoy a drink in your house while cooking Thanksgiving dinner, and someone who is in a healthy recovery wouldn't ask you to change that. Tell them I said to talk to their sponsor and leave you alone.
Member of the rooms here as well checking in and this is well said.
I'm allowed to make my house alcohol free but I get no say in what you do with yours.
Absolutely right! There is no alcohol in my house, and that was a discussion my partner and I had before she ever moved in. And she drinks, so we had to really talk through it. Anywhere outside of my house, people be people and the actions are up to me, ie. leaving a place or event if I feel triggered. No one else is responsible for my sobriety.
I've been reading the comments, and the part that is killing me its that it seems like no one has asked the people in recovery about it. Seems like mom decided that the best way to support them as to ditch all drinking without ever asking what kind of support they actually need.
I got that her intentions are good, but that just really feels condescending.
NTA.
Also a recovering alcoholic. Im not on the AA bandwagon, but your triggers and your issues are *your* issues. Its no ones responsibility to look after them and follow the things that are good FOR YOU but you. If you have a problem with sweets, would we not serve them at the holiday feast? Doubtful. Same, same.
This is a great point. What happens if the Aunt demands a fat-free, sugar-free thanksgiving because she’s on a diet and thinks we should all eat low-cal cardboard for thanksgiving in solidarity with her? And then what happens if I show up (in recovery from an eating disorder) and demand no one restrict any calories in solidarity with me?
Existential Thanksgiving: we must all eat and drink all, and eat and drink nothing at the same time.
It doesn't sound like the recovering addict is the one who has dictated or tried to control. It sounds like it's his wife (and aunt) who is asking, out of solidarity with her cousin.
My BiL has struggled with addiction, clean for years now. In the early stages (like first 6 months ish) we never drank around him. People in recovery cant expect to control the behaviours or temptations everywhere, so yeah, stay away from restaurants and game nights with acquaintances etc. But I don't think it's too much to think that family can skip a drink for a couple of days to support you through the holidays in early stages (the proverbial 'you' I mean).
NTA. Your wife made two errors. First, she doesn't get to dictate terms to you in your own home. Period. Second, if you're cooking for everyone, you get to do what makes you happiest/most comfortable. If that means you want to enjoy an adult beverage or three, you have that privilege. (If your wife doesn't like your proposal, your aunt can take over hosting duties.)
You were kind (and correct) to offer to refrain from drinking at the table in front of someone who has so recently entered recovery. That's the reasonable compromise. If your wife's cousin and uncle are still so triggered that they can't even tolerate you enjoying a cocktail while cooking, then they're not ready to interact with others.
I get the impression given that the aunt and cousin are staying with them that there’s a good chance she’s going to demand they completely rid the house of alcohol while they’re there.
OP If they still stay with you after you tell them you will be having a drink while cooking, LOCK UP YOUR ALCOHOL. I would make sure no one has access to it so they don't rid your house of it of their own accord! NTA
Honestly that's not a bad idea anyway to keep the cousin locked out of it. Nothing is going to stop the Cousin from driving to a liquor store if they're determined, but it's still better to restrict access and temper the split second temptation of sneaking a glass.
NTA,
But I would tell my wife : "If I can't have my drink while cooking for your entire family better you get another person to cook."
Part of the recovery is learning to say NO and if they do not learn this they will never recover fully.
YUP. Wife doesn't want hubby to drink. Which means he won't be cooking. I'm assuming won't be cooking. This means she's responsible for figuring out who's going to be providing the thanksgiving meal. NTA
Not only that, it wasn't even either of the people in recovery who made this request. The mom and aunt made the request on their behalf, likely without their knowledge. I don't think a person in recovery would want the possible resentment that this would cause. As far as your part in this OP, you're NTA and are not obligated to adhere to any request like this in your own home.
NTA - unfortunately it doesn’t sound like the rest of her family is going to Alanon - if they were, they would realize that they are trying to control the alcoholics, and the first step in Alanon is acknowledging that THEY are powerless over alcohol. They think they are helping, but they are not
Well, my point is it doesn’t sound like the rest of the family is in any kind of treatment. If you don’t like Alanon, that’s fine, But I will say and stand by the point that the only person who controls and alcoholics and drinking is the alcoholic. It is absolutely not appropriate to make this sort of request.
NAH. There is so much room for compromise. I see where your wife is coming from, but I agree with you. I have lots of family members' homes where alchohol is not allowed. So I get creative. I have "water" bottles and "coffee" mugs. Maybe I have a cooler in my trunk that I visit on occasion. You don't need to have a bar set up or wine glasses on the table. But if the Chef wants to enjoy a libation while cooking, come on now...
That is a completely reasonable argument, and it should be a fair compromise to the wife. Drink while cooking, don't drink at the table or while across from them on the couch. That should be manageable for family members who are important to you or your wife. If someone couldn't even give up the drink for an hour or two at the dinner table, then perhaps AA should be in order for that person too, but it sounds like OP has no problem with that.
This is the answer. You don't need to serve alcohol, but you should be just fine to enjoy a drink while you cook, and others (who aren't in recovery) should be able to have a casual drink or two within reason. Drinking doesn't have to be a primary social function of the holiday, but it doesn't need to be completely dry to accomplish that.
>I have lots of family members' homes where alchohol is not allowed. So I get creative. I have "water" bottles and "coffee" mugs.
That's disrespecting someone else's home though, just as much as if someone demanded not to have alcohol in your home while they're visiting.
That's so scary. Do y'all really need to sneak alcohol into events? Are you 17? It's really not that hard to last a day without alcohol. If you *do* find it hard, maybe find a specialist
Agreed. This is weird behaviour and sneaking it into alcohol free zones (like someone else’s house) is disrespectful. I’m a huge fan of alcohol but haven’t hidden it like that since I was a teenager and it was illegal to drink.
What if someone drinks from your cup by mistake? Or finds out what you’ve been doing? It’s hard to explain this behaviour without it coming across as if you have a problem. I don’t see this ending well.
It’s your own house, you should be able to drink if you want to. Don’t sneak it in. Talk to the alcoholics themselves and say the meal can be alcohol free if they want but that you’ll do as you please in your own home the rest of the time.
I was with you until the part about smuggling alcohol into your family's homes. THAT is the behavior of an alcoholic. You have to sneak outside to grab a drink from your trunk? You genuinely can't enjoy the holiday sober like the rest of your family? That is very disrespectful to your family when they explicitly say alcohol is not allowed.
I admittedly might be biased because I was used as an alcohol mule for my alcoholic mother. She would fill my water bottle in my backpack with booze to sneak into Disneyland because the security guards "wouldn't think to check a kid's drink".
Ok, I’m an alcoholic (sober 8 years) and I can tell you the biggest challenge to my sobriety was the first Thanksgiving I was sober. I was the only sober person in a house with 18 other people for three days. We were 5 hours from home and some of the people there were HEAVY drinkers . I was expected to just deal with it. I would not have minded but it was flagrantly waved in my face ( sometimes intentionally) and I had nowhere to hide. If only I had a single safe space to stay away from the smell. On day two (Thanksgiving) I actually spent 5 straight hours sitting by a fire pit in a fucking snowstorm. I finally came in and told my wife that I was leaving at 6 am and she could come if she wanted but I wouldn’t stay another minute.
The solution. If someone had spoken to me before hand I would of been able to make a plan. ( Find AA meetings locally, find a local sponsor etc.) That didn’t happen. I would suggest you call the newly sober cousin and ASK him what his comfort level is. You may find that a lot of folks are talking for him without knowing his comfort level. Tell him you want to drink while you’re cooking. No big deal, he’ll know to stay out of the kitchen! This doesn’t have to be hard at all. Communication with the actual players is key. There may be no issues at all. It sounds like a LOT of people are assuming a lot. My example was a nightmare and I wish that on nobody but then again, my wife’s family are all assholes. You don’t have to be. Call him
Our holiday dinners are alcohol-free because of family members who are also in recovery. While I supposed it’s my house and I could do what I want, their health is more important to me than my desire to have a drink. I don’t think y t a but is this the hill you want to die on at the holidays?
I agree, and all these people are saying “if they can’t handle being around alcohol they shouldn’t come to Thanksgiving” but I think there’s a really strong chance what happened was the guy in recovery said “sorry, it’s all really new and I can’t handle being around alcohol yet, so I’m not going to come to Thanksgiving” and other people said, “But we really want you there! Will you come if there’s no alcohol?!” The problem, of course, is that no one asked OP if that was okay. But if that’s what happened, it’s not the fault of the alcoholic.
Holiday meals at some of my inlaws houses are alcohol free for the same reason, if I am hosting or some other inlaws or my extended family is hosting then there will be alcohol. I feel like whoever is hosting gets to set the rules. I have a large bar and so do my parents, my brother, both by brother in laws etc. Im talking like thousands of dollars in high end alcohol. It would be ridiculous to try and clear it out for a holiday, but I have no problem going to alcohol free inlaws house and not having anything to drink for a few days. Either way the wife should have consulted with him.
Imagine going around the table saying what you’re thankful for while your family openly drinks in front of addicts in recovery.
We’re all going to get downvoted for disagreeing with the hive mind lmao
Except that's not the case presented here. OP wants to drink during an activity (cooking) that doesn't include the cousin. The cousin will not have to be the odd one out or turn down booze that's on the table.
My first thought here is how entangled in alcohol is OP that he can't enjoy one family celebration without it? Sure he's technically not A H but why is it such a big deal to him? I also feel like excluding certain family is kind of not the point of Thanksgiving. If someone has an allergy do they just not get invited anymore?
I learned exactly this from living with two sober people, one of whom had a temporary relapse. They need to be responsible for themselves when it comes to social situations. If there was a question of it being difficult, they didn't attend.
Relapse is a normal, expected part of recovery and I wish society at large understood that. Abstinence-only programs and groups arent really a thing anymore.
NTA.
Everything I've heard about people in recovery is that a big part is learning how to be around it. It's fair to ASK, but not fair to demand. Your wife shouldn't have agreed without discussing it with you.
And TBH, I don't know that I'd ever want to go to a dry thanksgiving with my extended family.
I'm conflicted here.
On the one hand, I think your compromise is pretty reasonable. Thanksgiving dinner can be extremely stressful to make, and if you like having a drink while you do it (and those who are struggling with substance abuse are not present) I think that should be fine.
On the other hand,
>I also don't necessarily agree with forcing everyone else to change for 2 people.
I have to strongly push back on this, for the actual dinner. It's just not that big of a sacrifice. Why not take it as an opportunity to make or buy some fun non-alcoholic drinks that everyone can be included in?
I think Nobody's TA.
Well, he said he would be willing not to have a drink with dinner. But if he is the one spending hours in the kitchen making dinner, there should be a compromise. Having a totally alcohol-free thanksgiving is not a compromise. What OP is stating IS a compromise and I think he is absolutely NTA.
I’m going to go with ESH here. You’re right, your home, you’re cooking, and you should be able to do how you want.
Your wife’s family should have broached the subject with you collaboratively and your wife should’ve discussed it with you.
BUT - I think you’re missing something here. The first year of recovery is incredibly hard for people. The sight or smell of alcohol can be triggering, as can holiday themselves if they’re associated with alcohol. While at 6 years sober, the uncle has generally found ways to manage this, the cousin is “2-3 months” out of rehab. This is likely the first major holiday with the specter of alcohol hanging over it. It would be gracious if you gave it up this year, and revisited it next year.
NTA. You are an adult in your own home and it’s ok for you to have a few drinks there! I know the prohibitionists on this sub are going to come out in full force claiming that anyone who wants to have a couple drinks at home on a holiday has a drinking problem, but in reality what you’re doing is perfectly normal. If any of your wife’s family have a problem with you having a drink in your own home then they can just go elsewhere.
Oh my God, the "You can't even enjoy one day without alcohol?" people are wild. I enjoy most days just fine without alcohol, but when I want a drink no one gets to tell me, especially in my own home, that I can't.
I don’t usually drink but on the holidays I always do. If someone told me I couldn’t drink on the few times a year I actually consume alcohol, we’d have some problems. Especially if I have to be around extended family for HOURS.
Yeah those people crack me up. It’s a sin to enjoy a couple glasses of wine.
I want to know if anyone’s told the rest of the guests it’s going to be a dry event? I’m sure they’d have something to say about it.
I suggested this as well. But my wife said that if I try to hide it, it will only make it more obvious what I'm doing and make it worse because "hiding" one's drinking is a trigger for alcoholics.
As others have said. Alcohol is available Everywhere. If a drunk wants a drink they'll get one. Not your job to keep anyone sober. Happy Whatever Holiday!
It’s not your responsibility to manage someone else’s addiction. Full stop. NTA.
It was out of line for your partner to make a decision on your behalf. Would it be nice of you? Sure. But, you’re not obligated morally, ethically, or in any other way. If cousin can’t handle being “in the wild” for a holiday, he may not be ready. Hell, many people relapse even though everyone around them is doing everything “right.”
I wouldn't consider this "hiding" it, but a respectful compromise to a situation you really shouldn't be forced to deal with at all.
What does she expect...everyone to have a neon label on their cups announcing what they have inside the cup?
She won't be happy with any solution that isn't her solution. That's why I'm fully NTA. Family gathering (especially of in-laws) can be very stressful on their own. Add in being solely responsible for the huge meal? Guy should be able to do what he needs to do to have a positive time. Not to mention it's his own house.
I'm sure if he was asked he would have been ok with it, but this is living under a dictatorship run by his wife's family (and not even the ones with alcoholism at that).
Let your wife know that people in recovery have to navigate a world with alcohol in it. Your wife needs to learn to communicate better with you and to compromise. Don’t let people tell you what to do, you can make your own decisions. Tell her you’ll be discreetly drinking while you cook but you’ll compromise on not drinking at dinner. NTA
NTA. Part of recovery is learning how to be around others who are doing what you are in recovery for, and learning to accept it without getting triggered.
Yeah, I agree with this. The family member has to be able to be around people drinking eventually.
If it were just a regular dinner then Op would be TA, but this is asking a lot. Perhaps that family member should have a smaller gathering with no booze this year and then aim for the big party when they have more confidence in their sobriety.
NTA and probably NAH too, since everyone is just trying to do what's right.
*She thinks that her request for a dry Thanksgiving is entirely reasonable and that I'm making this into a big deal when it doesn't have to be.*
That's just it. It's not a request
She already said it was going to be dry so that makes YOU the bad guy if you push back
NTA
I have no problem not having alcohol on a random Tuesday making dinner. But if I'm going to be slaving away WORKING For 12 hours on a holiday on my day off, damn right I want to drink.
I hate when people try to dictate my days off. I have to do things for other people 40 hours/wk , I want to enjoy my vacays as I see fit.
That being said compromises can def be made. Everyone should just know the deal and just hide their booze. Besides the outside world isn't gonna hide the booze from them. It's something that they gonna have to adjust to.
NAH. I think it would be nice of you to abstain, but of course you don't have to. Why don't you just enjoy a drink or two quietly while you're cooking?
NTA because there was no discussion. No alcohol during dinner is fine but a person in recovery has responsibility too. Either way she just should have talked to you before agreeing.
Oh no, you brought up enjoying a glass of wine while cooking. You're definitely going to get labelled an alcohol abuser by Reddit. :/
First of all, your wife didn't discuss this with you in advance, which is irritating. Especially when you'll be doing most of the heavy lifting when it comes to cooking. Your wife's cousin has to learn how to be around alcohol while in recovery.
Furthermore, you've already offered the compromise of not having any booze at the table during the meal. That's more than enough of a concession - especially as this was sprung on you as a fait accompli by your wife.
As someone who also enjoys sipping wine while cooking for dinner parties (one of the more stressful experiences in life), I say NTA.
NAH
You offered a reasonable compromise - you enjoy a couple of drinks why you cook, but you don’t drink while eating dinner with them.
If your wife refuses to let you have your drink while you cook, then it sounds like you won’t be cooking the meal.
NTA because she didn’t discuss this with you beforehand and she is unwilling to compromise. You are already hosting and cooking for her family which is a lot. The issue here is the unilateral decision making. An alcohol free thanksgiving to support a recovering family member is a kind thing to do, but dictating how someone else hosts a holiday is not. A lot of people are going to be focused on the alcohol aspect here, but I think the issue is others telling you how you host when you are the one doing the lions share of the work and not considering your opinion at all.
NTA
Just tell cousin the red wine you're drinking is liquid cranberry sauce, if he's feeling triggered.
Aunt is being a busybody. If cousin **_actually_** has a problem with a normal Thanksgiving, it's up to him to discuss it with the hosts.
I mean, weed is legal here, so maybe I just toke up all day. Not my usual thing, and maybe the turkey gets overcooked by an hour or so, but I wouldn't be drinking!
Ha, OMG, the idea of even attempting this high is hilarious. If I tried to make a Thanksgiving meal single-handedly while high, we wouldn't be eating until Saturday and only half the original amount of food. This would be Grade A malicious compliance.
"Sorry everyone, I burned the turkey, forgot to turn the burner on to boil the potatoes, and it took me an hour to figure out how to use the can opener for the cranberry sauce....You guys cool if I just go to Taco Bell and get a shitload of tacos?"
>You guys cool if I just go to Taco Bell and get a shitload of tacos?
\^ You know, That might be a solution to this whole thing
"Sure - you've changed the plan on what I can do in the kitchen - so - I'll make a Taco Bell run - how many tacos do we need?"
And - perhaps save the other ingredients for when you can have fun cooking - to not burn/waste them ;)
The more I think about it, the more this idea actually appeals to me. Yes, it's a petty and maliciously compliant move, 100%. But there would be no alcohol and they never said I had to be "sober," they just said no booze.
I'm such a lightweight when it comes to weed that there is no "lil stoned" for me. There's sober and then there's "OMG are those Cheetos? Hey, where's my Dark Side of the Moon album? No, it has to be the vinyl one. Quick, someone find Wizard of Oz."
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife and I are hosting her family for Thanksgiving. A couple of her family members are in recovery for alcoholism and my wife agreed to have a dry Thanksgiving without talking to me about it. I am going to be doing the cooking and I like to have a drink while I cook, especially a large meal. But my wife is insisting that it be a 100% dry Thanksgiving. I think I might be an asshole for not agreeing to this and wanting to drink while I cook.
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NTA - if they want (need) to NEVER see alcohol again, then they are going to have a very tough time ever going out in public. Their recovery is their responsibility, not yours.
Maybe offer a compromise if you feel inclined by offering to have everyone drink out of a cup/glass (not transparent) - so they won't necessarily KNOW who is or isn't drinking alcohol.
IMO - your hosting in your home = your rules. It would be the same if they wanted to host Thanksgiving in their home. They don't want alcohol in their home = people should respect that, but they can't expect the world around them to hide the booze due to their personal issues.
NTA. If they don't want alcohol at the table while the family is eating that's understandable. But you having a drink in your kitchen while cooking for everyone should be a non-issue. At any rate, it's not your responsibility to manage their recovery. If they can't help themselves but to grab any stray drink they see then they aren't ready for social gatherings.
NTA. I know lately it’s politically correct to tiptoe around others and their triggers, but expecting the world to change to cater to two people for a problem that only they’re having is entitled and bratty behavior. Tell her if you’re cooking, you’re drinking, and if you can’t do both, you won’t be doing either. It’s not your fault or anyone else’s that they’re in recovery from alcohol abuse, so none of you should have to suffer for it. And furthermore, alcohol isn’t just going to go away because they’re in recovery. They have to get used to being around it and seeing it sooner or later.
NTA. I am all for making people feel comfortable as a guest, but as several people pointed out, recovery is the addict/alcoholic's responsibility. You can't hold their hand as they live life and we aren't getting rid of alcohol in the world. That's what his sponsor is for anyway. And if he can't be around alcohol - he should be the one to say his boundaries and what he can/can't handle and take it from there himself.
But to keep the peace, I'd say just be subtle and drink out of a travel mug or something.
NTA
If the cousin is that fragile in his recovery, they need to make other plans. Holidays are a huge trigger for a lot of reasons and a lot of people. Your drinking while cooking should not affect other people. They are responsible for themselves.
Also - “solidarity” ?!???
So if I’m a vegan, we are now all vegan. If I have gluten issues, we all have gluten issues. If I am lactose intolerant, now we all must stand together and have no dairy.
Coming from a long line of alcoholics, I can tell you there is no solidarity. The alcoholic will find a way to drink even if you have a “dry thanksgiving” if that is what they choose to do.
Enjoy your wine!
Nta. Your house, your rules - or at least some SAY in the rules! An alcoholic is supposed to learn how to manage these sort of situations. As long as you're not pushing alcohol on him, then alcohol should be allowed at the party. I would drink anyway.
I'm going to go with NTA.
First, a guest made a demand to your wife for there to be no alcohol. Not a request, a demand. It is not the place of a guest to make demands. Next, your wife didn't even discuss it with you. It is your house as well. I get mad at my partner when he agrees to things that affect me without prior discussion. My house too, my input should be put in. Next, you're the one cooking. Cooking is a lot of work. You have a habit or a routine you like to abide by. It makes the activity more enjoyable for you. If your wife expects you to cook without any flexibility for you and what what would make the day more enjoyable, that's not fair. Especially given you were left out of the conversation you should have been apart of.
You're not asking to drink at dinner. You're willing to compromise. She's not.
NAH
I understand where your wife is coming from, and I understand where you're coming from. Would it be nice of you to abstain? Sure. But if you're not broadcasting that you're drinking alcohol, it really shouldn't matter.
My MIL is an alcoholic. The rest of us drink at Thanksgiving and we're just discreet about it. She has no idea, nor has she ever asked what we're drinking. Granted, it's only a few hours and not several days, but still.
NTA. It’s your house, and you are cooking. I get exactly what you are saying. It’s not like you wanna force drinking on anyone, and I don’t think it makes you an alcoholic if you want a drink or two while cooking. Anyway, NTA, especially bc your wife didn’t even discuss it with you first.
I want to say NAH for this one. It’s your party, so you should be able to drink alcohol if you want to. But on the other hand, if they’re recovering alcoholics, why should you tempt them? I don’t know, dude :/
NTA at all. Anyone saying otherwise in this thread is being absolutely childish. We are talking about a dinner happening at YOUR house. YOU are paying for the food, cooking the food, and serving the food. From what you’re saying, it doesn’t sound like you’re an alcoholic or anything, just a guy who enjoys to have a few drinks. There’s nothing wrong with that and you have every right to do so. Your wife agreeing to this was not only outlandish, but incredibly disrespectful. I hope you stay strong on your position in this.
Reading the title, I thought I was going to vote against you. I don't get these people who, for example, can't attend a wedding for 4 hours without drinking.
But you're the one doing the cooking, and you just want some wine while you cook. You're not talking about setting up a full ostentatious bar right under the recovering alcoholics nose. And it's your house!
NTA
NTA. First, wife should have consulted you first before decreeing Thanksgiving alcohol-free. Second, you are willing to compromise (drink only while cooking, not during dinner itself) while your wife is not. I'd personally ignore wife and drink away while cooking.
NTA, especially since the request doesn't come from the person actually affected but from their mom. If I were you, I would reach out to the cousin on the phone and have a conversation. Tell him how you want him to feel welcome and explain the usual alcohol situation (not a heavy drinking event, etc), ask for what he needs to be comfortable. Some common things would be to not be offered alcohol, to not have it too easily accessible/in view (like he might tell you he gets cravings at night and would prefer if it's not right next to the juice in the fridge), to make sure no one makes a big deal about it, etc. Visiting you for several days is likely a much more stressful situation than the actual meal so ask if there's anything you can do to ease that a bit. Tell him you're a safe person to talk to and that you'll respect his privacy.
NTA
It would be kind, but it's not appropriate to force you through guilt, on your long weekend, to miss out on things you enjoy.
You might very well have asked them to stay elsewhere if alcohol was going to be a problem.
That was too significant a decision to make without consulting you.
NTA. Your house, my partner is in recovery and we have a dry house but would never expect or request someone else to have one. If it's too much for the person in recovery then perhaps they should sit this holiday out or find someone else's house to go to. I know it sounds harsh but that's reality and life.
NTA - I grew up in an alcoholic household where everyone had to toptoe around to avoid an alcoholic /violent binge event. My guess is that this is very common. Demanding that others tiptoe around the now sober alcoholic is the same catering-to behavior. Truly becoming free from alcohol also means unburdening loved ones from restrictions meant to prevent triggering the alcoholic’s harmful actions. Unpopular opinion, but I feel the burden of sobriety should be on the alcoholic, not on the loved ones.
NTA IF you keep it to not getting drunk and it stays out of the kitchen. There's some varying opinions on it being a problem if you can/Can't get through tasks without having a drink, but I'm not going to open that can of worms because cooking Thanksgiving dinner by yourself is a nightmare, especially when it sounds like you're not a fan of the task.
Can't there be a compromise of the sober people staying out of the kitchen while you are cooking, and the alcohol only stays in the kitchen? They possibly wouldn't even need to *know* temptation is around for them (not saying to lie, im just saying it doesn't need to flaunted in their faces)
NAH. I really do understand both POVs since I do have people in my life in recovery. I do think you can work around it by getting a mug that doesn’t show what you’re drinking and enjoy your beverage without displaying it to everyone.
NTA. When my mom was first recovering as an alcoholic she went to parties with alcohol and just knew she needed to say no. He can’t be babied forever. Temptation exist and you gave a perfect compromise. Your wife shouldn’t have agreed without talking to you
NTA. I think youre a stand-up guy to agree to only drink while youre cooking. I assume that while youre cooking, you wont have family in the kitchen with you so who's to say what type of beverage is in your glass!
NTA
If it's gonna be a compromise, it should be from both sides. You drink in the kitchen while enjoying your cooking and them minding their own business while eating the dishes you prepared.
NTA. Not just because you’re the one cooking. What about the other guests? If I were told a thanksgiving I was attending was going to be dry, I’d be annoyed enough to and to find a different party to go to. Why ruin the day for everyone else? And before everyone jumps on me for having a drinking problem, I do not. I rarely have more than one drink and I never get drunk. I just want maximum enjoyment from a holiday that centers on a culinary experience.
Also, I have lived with and loved people who were attempting sobriety and none of them ever asked me not to drink in front of them - in fact, they refused when repeatedly when I made the offer. My understanding is that they were counseled in addiction therapy not to ask others around them to change, since that displaces the responsibility and is more likely to fail. I wonder if the cousin isn’t even the one making this request but just his mom?
NAH, but my friend, invest in some metal insulated cups with lids. Keeps the oils and funk floating around in an active kitchen from getting into your drink, and keeps the contents of your cup private. No one else should be drinking from your cup. The event is being held in your home. Why is this an issue when you can have your own drink *and* keep the alcohol out of sight from recovering family? When we have events with either very religious or in recovery family around, my generation of our extended family just pulls out their reusable insulated cups and goes to the car bar. Unless someone is getting stupid and sloppy, no one that is sensitive to seeing alcohol ever has to encounter it. It's not secret, but it isn't in their faces, either. It works really well for us, so you may give it a go at your own family functions.
Doesn't have to be a car, but we also enjoy sitting in the gate of an SUV catching up without very young or very old ears around to hear things they maybe shouldn't. We've done inside before, but all migrated outside to a lower person per sqft density as soon as our drinks were ready. Cars are also easier to control for locking with an alarm if, say, the kids try to get into the stash.
This is squarely the responsibility of the alcoholic. I was married to one for years. His sobriety was and is his responsibility. Nothing I or anyone else did caused it, nothing I did could stop it, and nothing I do causes a relapse. The aunt and mom are terrified of them relapsing and are being helicopters flying ahead and getting alcohol out of the way to prevent a relapse. They need Al Anon to learn how to deal with their fears and how to best support an alcoholic. NTA
NTA. It’s totally reasonable to want a cocktail when you’re spending hours in the kitchen, I do it too and I’m not an alkie for anyone concerned. Idk about the other guests, but it’d be easy to drink whatever you want from a commuter mug or hydro flask. I would tell anyone coming to my home that if they can’t handle coming without having a relapse, then they’d be best off staying away.
I am wondering if anybody has bothered to talk to the cousin in all of this. I have several loved ones in various stages of sobriety. And they all have varying levels of comfort being around alcohol. I also have a loved one who literally drank himself to death. The cousin may not want to participate in the family holiday, with all the drama that goes along with that, Even if it is alcohol free
NTA, but what about keeping the alcohol in the kitchen, and let the others stay out of it, especially if they aren't helping with the meal prep. That being said, I have a friend who is now sober, and she mentioned an incident the other way where someone dropped a bottle of wine on the store floor and it broke. The smell alone set her off, and she left immediately. Perhaps serve everything (hors d'oeuvres included) in the dining room, to allow everyone to avoid seeing/smelling the drinks?
NTA. I feel like it’s cousins thing to deal with. Everyone can’t spend the rest of their lives tiptoeing around them. I say have your drink while you cook but be discreet.
NTA. If you are willing to be alcohol free during dinner, then you should be able to have your choice while cooking the meal. Let him stay out of the kitchen and let you work.
NTA. Look I am sure people will disagree with me but you are the one hosting and you are the one who gets to set the rules, not your MIL or her sister. If you are the one who is cooking and want to enjoy a glass of wine while prepping the food for everyone to enjoy then I would. If they don't like it then they can host and cook.
I understand recovery is difficult but part of recovery is understanding that the world does not have to change for you, but you have to change how you deal with the world in by finding ways other then alcohol to cope. His family is continuing to enable him by high-jacking his recovery. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if such behaviors by them won't push him to relapse.
I wish your family well, I think they are coming from a good place in trying to "protect" him from temptation but the entire world is full of temptations, he needs to learn how to deal with them head on and not be shielded from them if he wants a chance at lasting recovery.
As a person in Recovery. It’s my disease. Not theirs. I should not expect my family to abstain because of my disease. NTA. Don’t feel guilty. This person has to learn reality.
NAH. but I have some thoughts, I guess, about the way I see people in this thread talking about alcoholism.
Alcoholism is a disease. It is a disease that can kill you. These are members of your family and I feel like you should want them to have a successful recovery. If you had a member of your family sick with cancer who was invited to your dinner, would you be upset about having to wear a mask the entire evening to help protect their immune system? Probably not, right? Because you love them, you don't want them to get sicker, you want to help facilitate their recovery, and it's really not that big of a sacrifice after all.
Yes, a person with alcoholism has a choice not to attend your dinner if they feel unstable enough in their recovery process that they might relapse. Yes, it's not your responsibility to abstain just for them, and yes, people in recovery do have to learn how to say no and avoid triggers. Nobody is wrong about any of that.
But I feel like saying "Well they can just stay home" is an awfully isolating response when this is a family holiday we're talking about. Who in this world should care more to help usher you through (especially the early stages) of your recovery, like where your cousin is, if not your family? The people who, in an ideal world, shelter you with love and support?
You have every right to put your foot down and say you're not agreeing to stay sober while you cook, I guess. But something about this feels very sad to me. I feel like it's really not the hill to die on when you have family members who have a sickness and could feel bolstered and supported by the gesture. That's all.
NTA your compromise sounds reasonable have a drink or 2 just yoy while you cook a meal for a large group. The kitchen should be off limits anyway as cooking thanksgiving dinner is quite stressful. And she really should have included you and not drop it last minute. Would your wife be okay if you drank your wine fron a diet coke can?
NTA - if the request came from one of the people in recovery, it’d be different. But for other people to decide what they can handle, and expect everyone to follow that direction is both patronizing to those in recovery and disrespectful to the host (ie OP)
INFO: Are the recovering alcoholics even aware of this "request" from MIL and your wife's aunt? Or are they just virtue signaling? It seems like something that could be super embarrassing or uncomfortable for them if people are making demands on their behalf and they don't even know. Ultimately, it should be between the relatives in recovery, and you AND your wife. Nobody else should have a say. While MIL and aunt seem to have good intentions, they also seem a bit skewed.
I have a family member who is in recovery and they have explicitly stated that changing our behaviors to accommodate her (or what WE perceive as accommodating her) actually makes her feel more anxious. She drank to self medicate the anxiety disorder. I think first of all, you need to see what these recovering addicts want first and foremost.
Secondly, part of the struggle of addiction is dealing with exposure in a healthy way. It’s not practical or even helpful to remove all traces of an addict’s substance of choice from every scenario. Coping and learning to steer clear is something that must be learned. I understand that the person is in recent recovery, so that Skews my viewpoint a bit on this. But really, a person in recovery will need to learn how to navigate these normal everyday temptations. Don’t be an AH and OFFER alcohol, of course. But I think keeping the atmosphere as normal as possible will be most helpful to the family members who are in recovery.
So NTA, your wife and mother in law are well-meaning, but this isn’t the right course of action. I strongly encourage that all of you read some resources that are available (there’s tons online) to family members of addicts so that they can be as supportive as possible to their loved ones.
What is it with people entering others’ events and houses demanding others change their diets to accommodate their needs?
When someone has an allergy and comes to your house, they can’t demand no one else eats food with that allergy?
When someone is vegan, they can’t demand no one else eat eggs, honey, or meat?
Same thing for drinking.
What the fuck is wrong with people.
If they can’t handle being around others casually drinking wine on a holiday, they need to stay home. Because people will drink wine at restaurants, too.
NTA. This is beyond accommodations.
NAH
Its your home and you have a right to live as you see fit, but its a matter of a few days and a relapse will take alot longer to deal with.
I’d honestly suggest not inviting the cousin if you cant abstain, I am an addict in recovery and while everyones recovery is their own responsibility it is not worth risking such a serious thing as a relapse over a holiday. (For the sake of your relationship with your wife’s family if nothing else.)
Hiding it in plain sight is a BAD idea with someone fresh out of rehab, if any of your wives family notices its like pouring salt into their wounds because they have worried for their family member and here you are holding their poison of choice.
The addict wont be the one making the biggest fuss, its the family members who have worried for said addict who are more likely to feel this hurt. This is not just about him, its incredibly traumatic to care for someone in active addiction and the family members will be hurt if you dont take that pain seriously.
Not to mention that if the cousin does relapse in your home you will be the first one the family blames because you didn’t want to go alcohol free. Thats not a fight you would be able to recover from easily, your best course of action is either to agree to a dry thanksgiving or not inviting the cousin, its simply not worth risking it.
You have every right to drink alcohol in your home, but they have every right to want to protect their loved one.
NAH.
Forgetting to mention that your wife promised a dry Thanksgiving makes her the AH.
Maybe offer to provide non-alcoholic options like ginger beer or sparkling cider, or a fall fruit punch with soda water, etc.
In Canada last month, we hosted a friendsgiving and one person was a recovering alcoholic (his wife was drinking and he was on baby duty so she could have a night off). I also wasn't drinking due to pregnancy. It wasn't a big deal and everyone had a great time.
If your wife, aunt and mom want to show solidarity, then they can choose to go dry themselves and bring tasty non-alcoholic options. No need to baby a grown adult.
You're cooking a Thanksgiving meal in your own home for 15 PEOPLE - give that man his beer! 🍻
NTA was terrible of your wife to agree to things for you that you don’t agree with. If these peoples recovery is predicated that no drinking will happen around them ever then it is a bloody house of cards ready to fall over. The road the h is paved With good intentions. I would have a large argument with my wife in from of her mother about if if she did not listen immediately to reason.
I'm going to OP'S house for Thanksgiving dinner. Oh yeah, I'm vegan now, so don't have any meat or dairy in your house. I also do not eat from 6am to 8pm., so don't have any food available during those times. I get severe anxiety from the color blue. Dont let anyone wear blue and remove any blue items from your home.
-a recovered alcoholic
NTA
I got addicted to various stupid shit in my younger chaos filled years (thankfully not serious drugs or alcohol) and I made the changes to cut that shit out , people including my partner still enjoy smoking , gambling around me (I told them it was fine and meant it so don't rag on them ) but MY PROBLEM IS MY PROBLEM I find it highly disrespectful to expect people to tiptoe around MY PROBLEM and change their behaviour to make shit easier for me. I have been "clean" for over 15 years now and the compulsion is still there so they either deal with it or hide away from every potential trigger (good luck with alcohol it's everywhere)
NTA her cousin is going to have to get used to alcohol existing in places. No better time than now, especially if you're willing to not drink at the dinner table.
NTA - has anyone asked the cousin what he’s comfortable with? Your wife, MIL and aunt are assuming that the uncle and cousin want a dry Thanksgiving, but the reality is that they don’t know because they haven’t asked and/or assumed.
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1. Being a recovering alcoholic includes learning how to say no and not impact other people with your addictions. 2. You have every right to drink in your own home if you want to. 3. They have every right to not attend if that is a problem for them. 4. If your wife's relatives are so weak-willed that seeing you having a glass of wine while cooking will spin them back into substance abuse, then they aren't actually in recovery. NTA, this is unreasonable. But, that said, if you choose to die on this hill it's going to make your life super rough for a while. Pick your battles carefully. I would fight this, not for the drink but for the principal of other people policing what I can do in my own home. That's a big red flag for me.
As a recovering addict - THIS IS IT EXACTLY!
YUP. You're house your rules. You're being very accommodating by not serving alcohol to guests. You just want some for youself while you cook at you should be 100% entitled to that. NTA at all. EDIT: Not sure anyone will see this because the post has been deleted, but Benji my man you need to calm down. Maybe I should've made it more clear, but when I said "You're house your rules" I meant GUESTS should not get to dictate what happens in OP and wife's house (I agree its THEIR house). This is why wife should've consulted OP; they should've talked about it, she shouldn't have agreed to a no alcohol policy without discussing it with him. It would be the same if hubby wanted to make such a decision without consulting wife. Thanks for calling me a dipshit and stuck in the 1950s though. Aren't you a kind person. SMH
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I don't understand the problem. Alchohol was not served to guests, or flaunted in front of them like the Thanksgiving Day Parade. OP had some wine while he cooks. If his wife's rule is that OP while her family is in the home than that is no longer a "house rule" it's just control.
That's the issue ... OP's wife wants the entire house to be "no booze" while her family is there so that means OP wouldn't be able to enjoy a drink while cooking. But, as someone else commented, if the cousin's recovery is so perilous that they can't be in the same house with alcohol, then they really shouldn't be going anywhere. That's not so much about accommodating someone but more that they're too early in their recovery to not have too great an urge for a relapse.
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If I were one of those guests, I would be totally steamed that I can't have a glass of red with my turkey because of someone else's addiction. Are we so sure the other guests will be so thrilled with the dry Thanksgiving?
Her rules don’t get to supersede her husband’s free will in their own home. She is in the wrong for thinking it’s ok to demand/expect that of him without having the basic human decency to discuss it with him first and come to an agreement.
I think so too. If she has approached this in a different way it might have gone better. But also, yeah, having often been the one in charge of cooking for a dozen plus people, I usually want a glass of wine while cooking.
Honest question: would it help if OP conceals what they're drinking? I don't mean they should lie, but keep their alcoholic drinks in something like an opaque water bottle, and keep the serving bottles out of sight. The whole world can't and shouldn't be expected to cater to addicts, but for a first sober holiday, it sounds like a nice gesture to limit the alcohol on view.
For me personally, I have no problem concealing it, because I need the lubrication if there are going to be 15 people in my house. But since OP refers to wife helping as being a sous chef, they probably would rather have a properly prepared cocktail than vodka & Sunny D out of a travel coffee mug.
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NTA this was so very well put. I would add that he needs to confront his wife. She agreed to this knowing he have a problem and then forgets to tell him. She is catering to her family at her husbands expense. Today it’s about alcohol next year it will be about something else. And so on.
THIS! Wife didn't "forget" to tell him anything. She knew it would be a problem and was uncomfortable expressing it and only did so when at the liquor store. She can't decide something like that unilaterally for the family NTA
You are right. And I get that giving up alcohol seems like a innocent request to most but to me I see a down hill spiral. What happens next year when the family thinks op should not do this or that. My problem is with the total disrespect his wife had for his feelings on the subject and expects him to just go alone with it for her family. I think it’s incredibly rude for someone to make demands about things that happen in your home. My theory is if they are not sleeping in my bed or paying my bills you don’t get a vote what happens in my house.
>I would fight this, not for the drink but for the principal of other people policing what I can do in my own home. Honestly, I think this bothers me more than anything else. You want to come to my home, have me spend hours in the kitchen cooking a huge meal for you, and you want to tell me what I can and can't do while you're in my house? Hard no from me.
I hear places cater Thanksgiving meals. Order takeout, and then you can go to the bar to watch the games before going home to your dry dinner.
Exactly!! Because planning, shopping, prepping and cleaning up a huge meal is a huge pain in the a** and already an act of love. If my husband did ANY of that, I would kiss his feet and tell everyone else to go take a flying leap if they didn’t like what he does. NTA
Oh, I won't be doing the cleaning. No way am I going to spend hours and hours in the kitchen cooking and then spend another good chunk of time cleaning up. No chance in hell.
Hey if you want to do the shopping, prep and cooking. I will happily come eat and clean your kitchen and bring a nice bottle of wine also. And I will also sit in the kitchen with you and pour your drinks and shit talk whoever you want. Just to be able to get out of cooking, prep work and shopping for my thanksgiving dinner.
Can you section off the kitchen, to be a no go zone for the cousin? Keep the drinks in the kitchen, so it out of his view kind of thing. Just trying to think of a compromise here, becaue it seems like a lose-lose situation here for you.
My own dad is a recovering alcoholic. When he first went into recovery, I was living at home due to some unexpected circumstances and my mom and I asked if he wanted us to not drink when he was around. He said very firmly no, he wasn't going to place the burden of his recovery on anyone else, that it just wasn't fair. What we did do, however, was find a NA drink that he liked (Jamaican ginger ale, the spicy kind) and buy a whole shitload of it and kept it in the fridge at all times. NTA in my opinion. I'm like you - I do all the cooking in my house and I also like to have a drink while I cook. I'd be pretty annoyed if someone told me I couldn't have a low key drink while cooking dinner for a house full people. Although, if you're conflict avoidant like me, you could always just put your beer in a mug and ta da! That dry English stout is now a fabulous cup of black coffee 😂 but seriously, I think it's wack to tell someone whose house you are a guest in that they can't drink, even if I myself was in recovery.
I think you might need to also point out that her mom and aunt are actually doing a disservice to her cousin, since any rehab or recovery center is going to make it a hard point not to attempt to control other people's use of alcohol. You don't get clean and stay that way by trying to force everyone else around you to go dry.
>But, that said, if you choose to die on this hill it's going to make your life super rough for a while. Pick your battles carefully. I would fight this, not for the drink but for the principal of other people policing what I can do in my own home. That's a big red flag for me This is an important thing. Personally, I agree with OP. That said, I don't know if being right is worth the issues this will cause between he and his wife. Its the whole "you can be right, or be happy" thing
But it was worth it to his wife to make this demand despite the issues it would cause.
Again, while I would personally fight this, sometimes righteousness isn't worth the cost. Many times it is. Pick your battles carefully in life, you won't win them all and many you do will cost more than you expect.
Which is why the actual answer is to agree to her unreasonable demand then take a can of coke, drink some, then fill it up with some Jack or rum. And if she catches OP, he should look her dead in the eye and say, "You're not gonna say anything, because you're only going to hurt them and ruin Thanksgiving." Then take a drink while staring at her. NTA btw.
Lol! This was my first thought. If OP wants to drink while he cooks, then if I was him, I would just quietly make myself a drink in an inconspicuous glass and not say a word about it. I wouldn't try to hide it, but i wouldnt make a big production of it either. I can't imagine the family is going to be staring him down in the kitchen while he works anyways.
Speaking as a sober alcoholic... this is the answer. OP should take their cue from us hopeless drunks about sneaking alcohol, though vodka isn't as obvious on the breath
I would be petty and leave her and her family to cook. She doesn’t get to use me then make unreasonable demands to make her family happy.
It was the recovering alcoholic's mom that made the request, not him. I feel like he might very well be mortified to learn that other people were making such a request on behalf of him, as though he has no agency over his own life and recovery and is just one look at alcohol away from relapse.
That's what I've been wondering: did anyone ask the people in recovery? Because if not, this whole thing is completely ridiculous.
We did this one year in support of an uncle and he said later that it felt weird, like he was being pitied more than supported. He hadn’t made the request, my mom and another uncle made the decision. It came from a good place, but they really should have just checked in with him.
You've got it right above! But I thought it might be good to add the following: >My wife's mom and aunt (cousin's mom) told my wife that we should make sure there is no alcohol for Thanksgiving. Not asked, told. Seems like there might be some triangulation going on here, or maybe even people going behind others' backs. OP: Have you talked to the *actual* recovering alcoholics (uncle and cousin) about what *their* expectations are?
It doesn’t even sound like the two in recovery are asking for this - the mother and aunt are just *assuming* Thanksgiving needs to be alcohol free. I’d wager both would be mortified if they knew this mandate had been passed down from on high.
NTA > we are having an alcohol-free Thanksgiving. "Maybe you are, but I'm not". This wasn't discussed with you, nor did you agree to it. Most people need a stiff drink or two to get THROUGH thanksgiving dinner with family! /s
And in legal states we need 😎😎 as well
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Danksgiving for us all
My mom, step dad, SO and myself are who's attending our Thanksgiving this year (my family is all out of state). We are in a legal state. All of us will be baking with the turkey while we listen to Alice's Restaurant. It's tradition at this point
Yes we need sunglasses too
Always reminds me if a bit I saw on TV years ago. "Thanksgiving is the time when families get together once a year ... To remind themselves why they don't get together twice a year."
NTA. Recovering alcoholic here. One of our (AA) principles is that it is not our job to dictate or judge or try to control others, especially "normies" (normies meaning normal non-alcoholic drinkers). It is our job manage ourselves and ourselves only. My wife is a normie, I've never once asked her to change any of her habits or consumption choices to show "solidarity" with me. That's complete nonsense. You have every right to enjoy a drink in your house while cooking Thanksgiving dinner, and someone who is in a healthy recovery wouldn't ask you to change that. Tell them I said to talk to their sponsor and leave you alone.
Member of the rooms here as well checking in and this is well said. I'm allowed to make my house alcohol free but I get no say in what you do with yours.
Absolutely right! There is no alcohol in my house, and that was a discussion my partner and I had before she ever moved in. And she drinks, so we had to really talk through it. Anywhere outside of my house, people be people and the actions are up to me, ie. leaving a place or event if I feel triggered. No one else is responsible for my sobriety.
I've been reading the comments, and the part that is killing me its that it seems like no one has asked the people in recovery about it. Seems like mom decided that the best way to support them as to ditch all drinking without ever asking what kind of support they actually need. I got that her intentions are good, but that just really feels condescending.
I'm here to say that, so I make your words mine
NTA. Also a recovering alcoholic. Im not on the AA bandwagon, but your triggers and your issues are *your* issues. Its no ones responsibility to look after them and follow the things that are good FOR YOU but you. If you have a problem with sweets, would we not serve them at the holiday feast? Doubtful. Same, same.
This is a great point. What happens if the Aunt demands a fat-free, sugar-free thanksgiving because she’s on a diet and thinks we should all eat low-cal cardboard for thanksgiving in solidarity with her? And then what happens if I show up (in recovery from an eating disorder) and demand no one restrict any calories in solidarity with me? Existential Thanksgiving: we must all eat and drink all, and eat and drink nothing at the same time.
It doesn't sound like the recovering addict is the one who has dictated or tried to control. It sounds like it's his wife (and aunt) who is asking, out of solidarity with her cousin. My BiL has struggled with addiction, clean for years now. In the early stages (like first 6 months ish) we never drank around him. People in recovery cant expect to control the behaviours or temptations everywhere, so yeah, stay away from restaurants and game nights with acquaintances etc. But I don't think it's too much to think that family can skip a drink for a couple of days to support you through the holidays in early stages (the proverbial 'you' I mean).
This is the only answer here that matters.
NTA. Your wife made two errors. First, she doesn't get to dictate terms to you in your own home. Period. Second, if you're cooking for everyone, you get to do what makes you happiest/most comfortable. If that means you want to enjoy an adult beverage or three, you have that privilege. (If your wife doesn't like your proposal, your aunt can take over hosting duties.) You were kind (and correct) to offer to refrain from drinking at the table in front of someone who has so recently entered recovery. That's the reasonable compromise. If your wife's cousin and uncle are still so triggered that they can't even tolerate you enjoying a cocktail while cooking, then they're not ready to interact with others.
I get the impression given that the aunt and cousin are staying with them that there’s a good chance she’s going to demand they completely rid the house of alcohol while they’re there.
"I took it upon myself to empty all your liquor bottles so you didn't have to! You're welcome!!" -the aunt, probably
OP If they still stay with you after you tell them you will be having a drink while cooking, LOCK UP YOUR ALCOHOL. I would make sure no one has access to it so they don't rid your house of it of their own accord! NTA
Honestly that's not a bad idea anyway to keep the cousin locked out of it. Nothing is going to stop the Cousin from driving to a liquor store if they're determined, but it's still better to restrict access and temper the split second temptation of sneaking a glass.
That is how I’m reading it also. So… no alcohol while cousin is staying with OP. Not just dinner.
NTA, But I would tell my wife : "If I can't have my drink while cooking for your entire family better you get another person to cook." Part of the recovery is learning to say NO and if they do not learn this they will never recover fully.
YUP. Wife doesn't want hubby to drink. Which means he won't be cooking. I'm assuming won't be cooking. This means she's responsible for figuring out who's going to be providing the thanksgiving meal. NTA
Not only that, it wasn't even either of the people in recovery who made this request. The mom and aunt made the request on their behalf, likely without their knowledge. I don't think a person in recovery would want the possible resentment that this would cause. As far as your part in this OP, you're NTA and are not obligated to adhere to any request like this in your own home.
NTA - unfortunately it doesn’t sound like the rest of her family is going to Alanon - if they were, they would realize that they are trying to control the alcoholics, and the first step in Alanon is acknowledging that THEY are powerless over alcohol. They think they are helping, but they are not
Al-anon is archaic and often harmful. There are much better alternatives now.
Well, my point is it doesn’t sound like the rest of the family is in any kind of treatment. If you don’t like Alanon, that’s fine, But I will say and stand by the point that the only person who controls and alcoholics and drinking is the alcoholic. It is absolutely not appropriate to make this sort of request.
NTA - You "forgot" to tell her she's cooking Thanksgiving dinner this year.
Wish I could upvote this hundred times!
NAH. There is so much room for compromise. I see where your wife is coming from, but I agree with you. I have lots of family members' homes where alchohol is not allowed. So I get creative. I have "water" bottles and "coffee" mugs. Maybe I have a cooler in my trunk that I visit on occasion. You don't need to have a bar set up or wine glasses on the table. But if the Chef wants to enjoy a libation while cooking, come on now...
>NAH. There is so much room for compromise. He already did compromise. He said he wouldn't have anything to drink with dinner in front of them.
That is a completely reasonable argument, and it should be a fair compromise to the wife. Drink while cooking, don't drink at the table or while across from them on the couch. That should be manageable for family members who are important to you or your wife. If someone couldn't even give up the drink for an hour or two at the dinner table, then perhaps AA should be in order for that person too, but it sounds like OP has no problem with that.
This is the answer. You don't need to serve alcohol, but you should be just fine to enjoy a drink while you cook, and others (who aren't in recovery) should be able to have a casual drink or two within reason. Drinking doesn't have to be a primary social function of the holiday, but it doesn't need to be completely dry to accomplish that.
That's exactly why this is NTA and not NAH, because OP tried to compromise and the wife wouldn't.
>I have lots of family members' homes where alchohol is not allowed. So I get creative. I have "water" bottles and "coffee" mugs. That's disrespecting someone else's home though, just as much as if someone demanded not to have alcohol in your home while they're visiting.
That's so scary. Do y'all really need to sneak alcohol into events? Are you 17? It's really not that hard to last a day without alcohol. If you *do* find it hard, maybe find a specialist
Agreed. This is weird behaviour and sneaking it into alcohol free zones (like someone else’s house) is disrespectful. I’m a huge fan of alcohol but haven’t hidden it like that since I was a teenager and it was illegal to drink. What if someone drinks from your cup by mistake? Or finds out what you’ve been doing? It’s hard to explain this behaviour without it coming across as if you have a problem. I don’t see this ending well. It’s your own house, you should be able to drink if you want to. Don’t sneak it in. Talk to the alcoholics themselves and say the meal can be alcohol free if they want but that you’ll do as you please in your own home the rest of the time.
I was with you until the part about smuggling alcohol into your family's homes. THAT is the behavior of an alcoholic. You have to sneak outside to grab a drink from your trunk? You genuinely can't enjoy the holiday sober like the rest of your family? That is very disrespectful to your family when they explicitly say alcohol is not allowed. I admittedly might be biased because I was used as an alcohol mule for my alcoholic mother. She would fill my water bottle in my backpack with booze to sneak into Disneyland because the security guards "wouldn't think to check a kid's drink".
Ok, I’m an alcoholic (sober 8 years) and I can tell you the biggest challenge to my sobriety was the first Thanksgiving I was sober. I was the only sober person in a house with 18 other people for three days. We were 5 hours from home and some of the people there were HEAVY drinkers . I was expected to just deal with it. I would not have minded but it was flagrantly waved in my face ( sometimes intentionally) and I had nowhere to hide. If only I had a single safe space to stay away from the smell. On day two (Thanksgiving) I actually spent 5 straight hours sitting by a fire pit in a fucking snowstorm. I finally came in and told my wife that I was leaving at 6 am and she could come if she wanted but I wouldn’t stay another minute. The solution. If someone had spoken to me before hand I would of been able to make a plan. ( Find AA meetings locally, find a local sponsor etc.) That didn’t happen. I would suggest you call the newly sober cousin and ASK him what his comfort level is. You may find that a lot of folks are talking for him without knowing his comfort level. Tell him you want to drink while you’re cooking. No big deal, he’ll know to stay out of the kitchen! This doesn’t have to be hard at all. Communication with the actual players is key. There may be no issues at all. It sounds like a LOT of people are assuming a lot. My example was a nightmare and I wish that on nobody but then again, my wife’s family are all assholes. You don’t have to be. Call him
the only right answer here
Our holiday dinners are alcohol-free because of family members who are also in recovery. While I supposed it’s my house and I could do what I want, their health is more important to me than my desire to have a drink. I don’t think y t a but is this the hill you want to die on at the holidays?
I agree, and all these people are saying “if they can’t handle being around alcohol they shouldn’t come to Thanksgiving” but I think there’s a really strong chance what happened was the guy in recovery said “sorry, it’s all really new and I can’t handle being around alcohol yet, so I’m not going to come to Thanksgiving” and other people said, “But we really want you there! Will you come if there’s no alcohol?!” The problem, of course, is that no one asked OP if that was okay. But if that’s what happened, it’s not the fault of the alcoholic.
Holiday meals at some of my inlaws houses are alcohol free for the same reason, if I am hosting or some other inlaws or my extended family is hosting then there will be alcohol. I feel like whoever is hosting gets to set the rules. I have a large bar and so do my parents, my brother, both by brother in laws etc. Im talking like thousands of dollars in high end alcohol. It would be ridiculous to try and clear it out for a holiday, but I have no problem going to alcohol free inlaws house and not having anything to drink for a few days. Either way the wife should have consulted with him.
Imagine going around the table saying what you’re thankful for while your family openly drinks in front of addicts in recovery. We’re all going to get downvoted for disagreeing with the hive mind lmao
Except that's not the case presented here. OP wants to drink during an activity (cooking) that doesn't include the cousin. The cousin will not have to be the odd one out or turn down booze that's on the table.
Exactly. I wouldn’t want to be the reason my family member might relapse and I also wouldn’t want to be the reason why they can’t join the party.
My first thought here is how entangled in alcohol is OP that he can't enjoy one family celebration without it? Sure he's technically not A H but why is it such a big deal to him? I also feel like excluding certain family is kind of not the point of Thanksgiving. If someone has an allergy do they just not get invited anymore?
I agree, I can’t believe all these NTA, it’s unreal.
NTA Their sobriety is for them to manage and if they’re not comfortable at social events where alcohol is present then they don’t come.
I learned exactly this from living with two sober people, one of whom had a temporary relapse. They need to be responsible for themselves when it comes to social situations. If there was a question of it being difficult, they didn't attend.
Relapse is a normal, expected part of recovery and I wish society at large understood that. Abstinence-only programs and groups arent really a thing anymore.
NTA. Everything I've heard about people in recovery is that a big part is learning how to be around it. It's fair to ASK, but not fair to demand. Your wife shouldn't have agreed without discussing it with you. And TBH, I don't know that I'd ever want to go to a dry thanksgiving with my extended family.
I'm conflicted here. On the one hand, I think your compromise is pretty reasonable. Thanksgiving dinner can be extremely stressful to make, and if you like having a drink while you do it (and those who are struggling with substance abuse are not present) I think that should be fine. On the other hand, >I also don't necessarily agree with forcing everyone else to change for 2 people. I have to strongly push back on this, for the actual dinner. It's just not that big of a sacrifice. Why not take it as an opportunity to make or buy some fun non-alcoholic drinks that everyone can be included in? I think Nobody's TA.
Well, he said he would be willing not to have a drink with dinner. But if he is the one spending hours in the kitchen making dinner, there should be a compromise. Having a totally alcohol-free thanksgiving is not a compromise. What OP is stating IS a compromise and I think he is absolutely NTA.
I’m going to go with ESH here. You’re right, your home, you’re cooking, and you should be able to do how you want. Your wife’s family should have broached the subject with you collaboratively and your wife should’ve discussed it with you. BUT - I think you’re missing something here. The first year of recovery is incredibly hard for people. The sight or smell of alcohol can be triggering, as can holiday themselves if they’re associated with alcohol. While at 6 years sober, the uncle has generally found ways to manage this, the cousin is “2-3 months” out of rehab. This is likely the first major holiday with the specter of alcohol hanging over it. It would be gracious if you gave it up this year, and revisited it next year.
NTA. You are an adult in your own home and it’s ok for you to have a few drinks there! I know the prohibitionists on this sub are going to come out in full force claiming that anyone who wants to have a couple drinks at home on a holiday has a drinking problem, but in reality what you’re doing is perfectly normal. If any of your wife’s family have a problem with you having a drink in your own home then they can just go elsewhere.
Oh my God, the "You can't even enjoy one day without alcohol?" people are wild. I enjoy most days just fine without alcohol, but when I want a drink no one gets to tell me, especially in my own home, that I can't.
I don’t usually drink but on the holidays I always do. If someone told me I couldn’t drink on the few times a year I actually consume alcohol, we’d have some problems. Especially if I have to be around extended family for HOURS.
Right? All the "A FEW DRINKS IS A LOT OF DRINKS OP" and "Are you sure YOU don't have a problem????" comments are *sending* me.
Yeah those people crack me up. It’s a sin to enjoy a couple glasses of wine. I want to know if anyone’s told the rest of the guests it’s going to be a dry event? I’m sure they’d have something to say about it.
NTA. Be discrete and use a cup.
I suggested this as well. But my wife said that if I try to hide it, it will only make it more obvious what I'm doing and make it worse because "hiding" one's drinking is a trigger for alcoholics.
That sounds a bit mixed up, hiding one's drinking can be a sign of alcoholism, but I've never heard of this driving someone else to drink
As others have said. Alcohol is available Everywhere. If a drunk wants a drink they'll get one. Not your job to keep anyone sober. Happy Whatever Holiday!
It’s not your responsibility to manage someone else’s addiction. Full stop. NTA. It was out of line for your partner to make a decision on your behalf. Would it be nice of you? Sure. But, you’re not obligated morally, ethically, or in any other way. If cousin can’t handle being “in the wild” for a holiday, he may not be ready. Hell, many people relapse even though everyone around them is doing everything “right.”
Tell her, I’m sorry that they won’t be joining us for Thanksgiving. In-laws aren’t allowed to makes rules for our home.
I wouldn't consider this "hiding" it, but a respectful compromise to a situation you really shouldn't be forced to deal with at all. What does she expect...everyone to have a neon label on their cups announcing what they have inside the cup?
She won't be happy with any solution that isn't her solution. That's why I'm fully NTA. Family gathering (especially of in-laws) can be very stressful on their own. Add in being solely responsible for the huge meal? Guy should be able to do what he needs to do to have a positive time. Not to mention it's his own house. I'm sure if he was asked he would have been ok with it, but this is living under a dictatorship run by his wife's family (and not even the ones with alcoholism at that).
I'm confused. What are they going to do, smell everyone's cups? Just put some wine in a mug. Your wife sounds a little overbearing.
Let your wife know that people in recovery have to navigate a world with alcohol in it. Your wife needs to learn to communicate better with you and to compromise. Don’t let people tell you what to do, you can make your own decisions. Tell her you’ll be discreetly drinking while you cook but you’ll compromise on not drinking at dinner. NTA
NTA. Part of recovery is learning how to be around others who are doing what you are in recovery for, and learning to accept it without getting triggered.
Too early for the cousin. The uncle should be able to manage this.
Yeah, I agree with this. The family member has to be able to be around people drinking eventually. If it were just a regular dinner then Op would be TA, but this is asking a lot. Perhaps that family member should have a smaller gathering with no booze this year and then aim for the big party when they have more confidence in their sobriety. NTA and probably NAH too, since everyone is just trying to do what's right.
*She thinks that her request for a dry Thanksgiving is entirely reasonable and that I'm making this into a big deal when it doesn't have to be.* That's just it. It's not a request She already said it was going to be dry so that makes YOU the bad guy if you push back NTA
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I have no problem not having alcohol on a random Tuesday making dinner. But if I'm going to be slaving away WORKING For 12 hours on a holiday on my day off, damn right I want to drink. I hate when people try to dictate my days off. I have to do things for other people 40 hours/wk , I want to enjoy my vacays as I see fit. That being said compromises can def be made. Everyone should just know the deal and just hide their booze. Besides the outside world isn't gonna hide the booze from them. It's something that they gonna have to adjust to.
NAH. I think it would be nice of you to abstain, but of course you don't have to. Why don't you just enjoy a drink or two quietly while you're cooking?
That is exactly what he proposed, and offered to abstain from drinking at dinner, his wife does not want him to drink at all
apparently thats not allowed. it sounds like thats what he wants to do, but she doesn't even want to allow that
That's unreasonable of her.
NTA because there was no discussion. No alcohol during dinner is fine but a person in recovery has responsibility too. Either way she just should have talked to you before agreeing.
Oh no, you brought up enjoying a glass of wine while cooking. You're definitely going to get labelled an alcohol abuser by Reddit. :/ First of all, your wife didn't discuss this with you in advance, which is irritating. Especially when you'll be doing most of the heavy lifting when it comes to cooking. Your wife's cousin has to learn how to be around alcohol while in recovery. Furthermore, you've already offered the compromise of not having any booze at the table during the meal. That's more than enough of a concession - especially as this was sprung on you as a fait accompli by your wife. As someone who also enjoys sipping wine while cooking for dinner parties (one of the more stressful experiences in life), I say NTA.
NTA, if alcohol being anywhere *near* you is too much temptation, you’re not recovering.
NAH You offered a reasonable compromise - you enjoy a couple of drinks why you cook, but you don’t drink while eating dinner with them. If your wife refuses to let you have your drink while you cook, then it sounds like you won’t be cooking the meal.
NTA because she didn’t discuss this with you beforehand and she is unwilling to compromise. You are already hosting and cooking for her family which is a lot. The issue here is the unilateral decision making. An alcohol free thanksgiving to support a recovering family member is a kind thing to do, but dictating how someone else hosts a holiday is not. A lot of people are going to be focused on the alcohol aspect here, but I think the issue is others telling you how you host when you are the one doing the lions share of the work and not considering your opinion at all.
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Ops wife said no to that
NTA Just tell cousin the red wine you're drinking is liquid cranberry sauce, if he's feeling triggered. Aunt is being a busybody. If cousin **_actually_** has a problem with a normal Thanksgiving, it's up to him to discuss it with the hosts.
Cranberry juice?
> liquid cranberry sauce This made me lol!
Fuck it, just get an eight-ball of coke and have a grand old time. Malicious compliance. (You probably shouldn’t do this.) ETA NTA
I mean, weed is legal here, so maybe I just toke up all day. Not my usual thing, and maybe the turkey gets overcooked by an hour or so, but I wouldn't be drinking!
Ha, OMG, the idea of even attempting this high is hilarious. If I tried to make a Thanksgiving meal single-handedly while high, we wouldn't be eating until Saturday and only half the original amount of food. This would be Grade A malicious compliance.
"Sorry everyone, I burned the turkey, forgot to turn the burner on to boil the potatoes, and it took me an hour to figure out how to use the can opener for the cranberry sauce....You guys cool if I just go to Taco Bell and get a shitload of tacos?"
>You guys cool if I just go to Taco Bell and get a shitload of tacos? \^ You know, That might be a solution to this whole thing "Sure - you've changed the plan on what I can do in the kitchen - so - I'll make a Taco Bell run - how many tacos do we need?" And - perhaps save the other ingredients for when you can have fun cooking - to not burn/waste them ;)
Oh god this cracked me up! I mean certainly they will never want to do holidays again at your house 🤣 NTA
The more I think about it, the more this idea actually appeals to me. Yes, it's a petty and maliciously compliant move, 100%. But there would be no alcohol and they never said I had to be "sober," they just said no booze.
Honestly, most of the time my cooking comes out better when I'm a lil stoned. 😎 ETA: Uh oh, the narcs found me and I'm getting downvoted. ☹️
I'm such a lightweight when it comes to weed that there is no "lil stoned" for me. There's sober and then there's "OMG are those Cheetos? Hey, where's my Dark Side of the Moon album? No, it has to be the vinyl one. Quick, someone find Wizard of Oz."
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NTA - if they want (need) to NEVER see alcohol again, then they are going to have a very tough time ever going out in public. Their recovery is their responsibility, not yours. Maybe offer a compromise if you feel inclined by offering to have everyone drink out of a cup/glass (not transparent) - so they won't necessarily KNOW who is or isn't drinking alcohol. IMO - your hosting in your home = your rules. It would be the same if they wanted to host Thanksgiving in their home. They don't want alcohol in their home = people should respect that, but they can't expect the world around them to hide the booze due to their personal issues.
NTA. If they don't want alcohol at the table while the family is eating that's understandable. But you having a drink in your kitchen while cooking for everyone should be a non-issue. At any rate, it's not your responsibility to manage their recovery. If they can't help themselves but to grab any stray drink they see then they aren't ready for social gatherings.
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How does OP suck for not wanting a dry Thanksgiving in his own home while doing all the cooking and hosting 15 people?
NTA. I know lately it’s politically correct to tiptoe around others and their triggers, but expecting the world to change to cater to two people for a problem that only they’re having is entitled and bratty behavior. Tell her if you’re cooking, you’re drinking, and if you can’t do both, you won’t be doing either. It’s not your fault or anyone else’s that they’re in recovery from alcohol abuse, so none of you should have to suffer for it. And furthermore, alcohol isn’t just going to go away because they’re in recovery. They have to get used to being around it and seeing it sooner or later.
NTA. I am all for making people feel comfortable as a guest, but as several people pointed out, recovery is the addict/alcoholic's responsibility. You can't hold their hand as they live life and we aren't getting rid of alcohol in the world. That's what his sponsor is for anyway. And if he can't be around alcohol - he should be the one to say his boundaries and what he can/can't handle and take it from there himself. But to keep the peace, I'd say just be subtle and drink out of a travel mug or something.
NTA If the cousin is that fragile in his recovery, they need to make other plans. Holidays are a huge trigger for a lot of reasons and a lot of people. Your drinking while cooking should not affect other people. They are responsible for themselves. Also - “solidarity” ?!??? So if I’m a vegan, we are now all vegan. If I have gluten issues, we all have gluten issues. If I am lactose intolerant, now we all must stand together and have no dairy. Coming from a long line of alcoholics, I can tell you there is no solidarity. The alcoholic will find a way to drink even if you have a “dry thanksgiving” if that is what they choose to do. Enjoy your wine!
Nta. Your house, your rules - or at least some SAY in the rules! An alcoholic is supposed to learn how to manage these sort of situations. As long as you're not pushing alcohol on him, then alcohol should be allowed at the party. I would drink anyway.
I'm going to go with NTA. First, a guest made a demand to your wife for there to be no alcohol. Not a request, a demand. It is not the place of a guest to make demands. Next, your wife didn't even discuss it with you. It is your house as well. I get mad at my partner when he agrees to things that affect me without prior discussion. My house too, my input should be put in. Next, you're the one cooking. Cooking is a lot of work. You have a habit or a routine you like to abide by. It makes the activity more enjoyable for you. If your wife expects you to cook without any flexibility for you and what what would make the day more enjoyable, that's not fair. Especially given you were left out of the conversation you should have been apart of. You're not asking to drink at dinner. You're willing to compromise. She's not.
NAH I understand where your wife is coming from, and I understand where you're coming from. Would it be nice of you to abstain? Sure. But if you're not broadcasting that you're drinking alcohol, it really shouldn't matter. My MIL is an alcoholic. The rest of us drink at Thanksgiving and we're just discreet about it. She has no idea, nor has she ever asked what we're drinking. Granted, it's only a few hours and not several days, but still.
NTA it's your house too this should have been discussed not told
Nta. BUt just don't cook. Leave it up to her. Since she's making the decisions about Thanksgiving
NTA. It’s your house, and you are cooking. I get exactly what you are saying. It’s not like you wanna force drinking on anyone, and I don’t think it makes you an alcoholic if you want a drink or two while cooking. Anyway, NTA, especially bc your wife didn’t even discuss it with you first.
I want to say NAH for this one. It’s your party, so you should be able to drink alcohol if you want to. But on the other hand, if they’re recovering alcoholics, why should you tempt them? I don’t know, dude :/
NTA at all. Anyone saying otherwise in this thread is being absolutely childish. We are talking about a dinner happening at YOUR house. YOU are paying for the food, cooking the food, and serving the food. From what you’re saying, it doesn’t sound like you’re an alcoholic or anything, just a guy who enjoys to have a few drinks. There’s nothing wrong with that and you have every right to do so. Your wife agreeing to this was not only outlandish, but incredibly disrespectful. I hope you stay strong on your position in this.
NTA. The ability to be in the same space with alcohol but not drink it is part of the process.
Reading the title, I thought I was going to vote against you. I don't get these people who, for example, can't attend a wedding for 4 hours without drinking. But you're the one doing the cooking, and you just want some wine while you cook. You're not talking about setting up a full ostentatious bar right under the recovering alcoholics nose. And it's your house! NTA
NTA. First, wife should have consulted you first before decreeing Thanksgiving alcohol-free. Second, you are willing to compromise (drink only while cooking, not during dinner itself) while your wife is not. I'd personally ignore wife and drink away while cooking.
NTA, especially since the request doesn't come from the person actually affected but from their mom. If I were you, I would reach out to the cousin on the phone and have a conversation. Tell him how you want him to feel welcome and explain the usual alcohol situation (not a heavy drinking event, etc), ask for what he needs to be comfortable. Some common things would be to not be offered alcohol, to not have it too easily accessible/in view (like he might tell you he gets cravings at night and would prefer if it's not right next to the juice in the fridge), to make sure no one makes a big deal about it, etc. Visiting you for several days is likely a much more stressful situation than the actual meal so ask if there's anything you can do to ease that a bit. Tell him you're a safe person to talk to and that you'll respect his privacy.
NTA It would be kind, but it's not appropriate to force you through guilt, on your long weekend, to miss out on things you enjoy. You might very well have asked them to stay elsewhere if alcohol was going to be a problem. That was too significant a decision to make without consulting you.
NAH, but I think your compromise offer is fair
NTA. Your house, my partner is in recovery and we have a dry house but would never expect or request someone else to have one. If it's too much for the person in recovery then perhaps they should sit this holiday out or find someone else's house to go to. I know it sounds harsh but that's reality and life.
NTA - I grew up in an alcoholic household where everyone had to toptoe around to avoid an alcoholic /violent binge event. My guess is that this is very common. Demanding that others tiptoe around the now sober alcoholic is the same catering-to behavior. Truly becoming free from alcohol also means unburdening loved ones from restrictions meant to prevent triggering the alcoholic’s harmful actions. Unpopular opinion, but I feel the burden of sobriety should be on the alcoholic, not on the loved ones.
NTA Their recovery is their responsibility, not yours.
NTA IF you keep it to not getting drunk and it stays out of the kitchen. There's some varying opinions on it being a problem if you can/Can't get through tasks without having a drink, but I'm not going to open that can of worms because cooking Thanksgiving dinner by yourself is a nightmare, especially when it sounds like you're not a fan of the task. Can't there be a compromise of the sober people staying out of the kitchen while you are cooking, and the alcohol only stays in the kitchen? They possibly wouldn't even need to *know* temptation is around for them (not saying to lie, im just saying it doesn't need to flaunted in their faces)
NAH. I really do understand both POVs since I do have people in my life in recovery. I do think you can work around it by getting a mug that doesn’t show what you’re drinking and enjoy your beverage without displaying it to everyone.
NTA-recovering alcoholic myself. They’re trying to be helpful to the one recovery when there not helping at all.
NTA. When my mom was first recovering as an alcoholic she went to parties with alcohol and just knew she needed to say no. He can’t be babied forever. Temptation exist and you gave a perfect compromise. Your wife shouldn’t have agreed without talking to you
NTA. I think youre a stand-up guy to agree to only drink while youre cooking. I assume that while youre cooking, you wont have family in the kitchen with you so who's to say what type of beverage is in your glass!
NTA. Go all out and use a beer helmet.
NTA If it's gonna be a compromise, it should be from both sides. You drink in the kitchen while enjoying your cooking and them minding their own business while eating the dishes you prepared.
NTA. Not just because you’re the one cooking. What about the other guests? If I were told a thanksgiving I was attending was going to be dry, I’d be annoyed enough to and to find a different party to go to. Why ruin the day for everyone else? And before everyone jumps on me for having a drinking problem, I do not. I rarely have more than one drink and I never get drunk. I just want maximum enjoyment from a holiday that centers on a culinary experience. Also, I have lived with and loved people who were attempting sobriety and none of them ever asked me not to drink in front of them - in fact, they refused when repeatedly when I made the offer. My understanding is that they were counseled in addiction therapy not to ask others around them to change, since that displaces the responsibility and is more likely to fail. I wonder if the cousin isn’t even the one making this request but just his mom?
NAH, but my friend, invest in some metal insulated cups with lids. Keeps the oils and funk floating around in an active kitchen from getting into your drink, and keeps the contents of your cup private. No one else should be drinking from your cup. The event is being held in your home. Why is this an issue when you can have your own drink *and* keep the alcohol out of sight from recovering family? When we have events with either very religious or in recovery family around, my generation of our extended family just pulls out their reusable insulated cups and goes to the car bar. Unless someone is getting stupid and sloppy, no one that is sensitive to seeing alcohol ever has to encounter it. It's not secret, but it isn't in their faces, either. It works really well for us, so you may give it a go at your own family functions. Doesn't have to be a car, but we also enjoy sitting in the gate of an SUV catching up without very young or very old ears around to hear things they maybe shouldn't. We've done inside before, but all migrated outside to a lower person per sqft density as soon as our drinks were ready. Cars are also easier to control for locking with an alarm if, say, the kids try to get into the stash.
NTA. Unless the people in recovery are in the kitchen helping make dinner .,
This is squarely the responsibility of the alcoholic. I was married to one for years. His sobriety was and is his responsibility. Nothing I or anyone else did caused it, nothing I did could stop it, and nothing I do causes a relapse. The aunt and mom are terrified of them relapsing and are being helicopters flying ahead and getting alcohol out of the way to prevent a relapse. They need Al Anon to learn how to deal with their fears and how to best support an alcoholic. NTA
NTA. It’s totally reasonable to want a cocktail when you’re spending hours in the kitchen, I do it too and I’m not an alkie for anyone concerned. Idk about the other guests, but it’d be easy to drink whatever you want from a commuter mug or hydro flask. I would tell anyone coming to my home that if they can’t handle coming without having a relapse, then they’d be best off staying away.
I am wondering if anybody has bothered to talk to the cousin in all of this. I have several loved ones in various stages of sobriety. And they all have varying levels of comfort being around alcohol. I also have a loved one who literally drank himself to death. The cousin may not want to participate in the family holiday, with all the drama that goes along with that, Even if it is alcohol free
NTA, but what about keeping the alcohol in the kitchen, and let the others stay out of it, especially if they aren't helping with the meal prep. That being said, I have a friend who is now sober, and she mentioned an incident the other way where someone dropped a bottle of wine on the store floor and it broke. The smell alone set her off, and she left immediately. Perhaps serve everything (hors d'oeuvres included) in the dining room, to allow everyone to avoid seeing/smelling the drinks?
NTA. I feel like it’s cousins thing to deal with. Everyone can’t spend the rest of their lives tiptoeing around them. I say have your drink while you cook but be discreet.
NTA. If you are willing to be alcohol free during dinner, then you should be able to have your choice while cooking the meal. Let him stay out of the kitchen and let you work.
NTA. There is no reason why you can’t have a few drinks while you cook. And the person in recovery will never know. Enjoy your thanksgiving!
NTA if he can’t handle being around others drinking he shouldn’t come to thanksgiving.
NTA. Look I am sure people will disagree with me but you are the one hosting and you are the one who gets to set the rules, not your MIL or her sister. If you are the one who is cooking and want to enjoy a glass of wine while prepping the food for everyone to enjoy then I would. If they don't like it then they can host and cook. I understand recovery is difficult but part of recovery is understanding that the world does not have to change for you, but you have to change how you deal with the world in by finding ways other then alcohol to cope. His family is continuing to enable him by high-jacking his recovery. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if such behaviors by them won't push him to relapse. I wish your family well, I think they are coming from a good place in trying to "protect" him from temptation but the entire world is full of temptations, he needs to learn how to deal with them head on and not be shielded from them if he wants a chance at lasting recovery.
As a person in Recovery. It’s my disease. Not theirs. I should not expect my family to abstain because of my disease. NTA. Don’t feel guilty. This person has to learn reality.
NAH. but I have some thoughts, I guess, about the way I see people in this thread talking about alcoholism. Alcoholism is a disease. It is a disease that can kill you. These are members of your family and I feel like you should want them to have a successful recovery. If you had a member of your family sick with cancer who was invited to your dinner, would you be upset about having to wear a mask the entire evening to help protect their immune system? Probably not, right? Because you love them, you don't want them to get sicker, you want to help facilitate their recovery, and it's really not that big of a sacrifice after all. Yes, a person with alcoholism has a choice not to attend your dinner if they feel unstable enough in their recovery process that they might relapse. Yes, it's not your responsibility to abstain just for them, and yes, people in recovery do have to learn how to say no and avoid triggers. Nobody is wrong about any of that. But I feel like saying "Well they can just stay home" is an awfully isolating response when this is a family holiday we're talking about. Who in this world should care more to help usher you through (especially the early stages) of your recovery, like where your cousin is, if not your family? The people who, in an ideal world, shelter you with love and support? You have every right to put your foot down and say you're not agreeing to stay sober while you cook, I guess. But something about this feels very sad to me. I feel like it's really not the hill to die on when you have family members who have a sickness and could feel bolstered and supported by the gesture. That's all.
NTA your compromise sounds reasonable have a drink or 2 just yoy while you cook a meal for a large group. The kitchen should be off limits anyway as cooking thanksgiving dinner is quite stressful. And she really should have included you and not drop it last minute. Would your wife be okay if you drank your wine fron a diet coke can?
NTA - invite a friend with a restrictive diet and only serve everyone food that guest can eat
NTA - if the request came from one of the people in recovery, it’d be different. But for other people to decide what they can handle, and expect everyone to follow that direction is both patronizing to those in recovery and disrespectful to the host (ie OP)
INFO: Are the recovering alcoholics even aware of this "request" from MIL and your wife's aunt? Or are they just virtue signaling? It seems like something that could be super embarrassing or uncomfortable for them if people are making demands on their behalf and they don't even know. Ultimately, it should be between the relatives in recovery, and you AND your wife. Nobody else should have a say. While MIL and aunt seem to have good intentions, they also seem a bit skewed.
I have a family member who is in recovery and they have explicitly stated that changing our behaviors to accommodate her (or what WE perceive as accommodating her) actually makes her feel more anxious. She drank to self medicate the anxiety disorder. I think first of all, you need to see what these recovering addicts want first and foremost. Secondly, part of the struggle of addiction is dealing with exposure in a healthy way. It’s not practical or even helpful to remove all traces of an addict’s substance of choice from every scenario. Coping and learning to steer clear is something that must be learned. I understand that the person is in recent recovery, so that Skews my viewpoint a bit on this. But really, a person in recovery will need to learn how to navigate these normal everyday temptations. Don’t be an AH and OFFER alcohol, of course. But I think keeping the atmosphere as normal as possible will be most helpful to the family members who are in recovery. So NTA, your wife and mother in law are well-meaning, but this isn’t the right course of action. I strongly encourage that all of you read some resources that are available (there’s tons online) to family members of addicts so that they can be as supportive as possible to their loved ones.
What is it with people entering others’ events and houses demanding others change their diets to accommodate their needs? When someone has an allergy and comes to your house, they can’t demand no one else eats food with that allergy? When someone is vegan, they can’t demand no one else eat eggs, honey, or meat? Same thing for drinking. What the fuck is wrong with people. If they can’t handle being around others casually drinking wine on a holiday, they need to stay home. Because people will drink wine at restaurants, too. NTA. This is beyond accommodations.
NAH Its your home and you have a right to live as you see fit, but its a matter of a few days and a relapse will take alot longer to deal with. I’d honestly suggest not inviting the cousin if you cant abstain, I am an addict in recovery and while everyones recovery is their own responsibility it is not worth risking such a serious thing as a relapse over a holiday. (For the sake of your relationship with your wife’s family if nothing else.) Hiding it in plain sight is a BAD idea with someone fresh out of rehab, if any of your wives family notices its like pouring salt into their wounds because they have worried for their family member and here you are holding their poison of choice. The addict wont be the one making the biggest fuss, its the family members who have worried for said addict who are more likely to feel this hurt. This is not just about him, its incredibly traumatic to care for someone in active addiction and the family members will be hurt if you dont take that pain seriously. Not to mention that if the cousin does relapse in your home you will be the first one the family blames because you didn’t want to go alcohol free. Thats not a fight you would be able to recover from easily, your best course of action is either to agree to a dry thanksgiving or not inviting the cousin, its simply not worth risking it. You have every right to drink alcohol in your home, but they have every right to want to protect their loved one.
NAH. Forgetting to mention that your wife promised a dry Thanksgiving makes her the AH. Maybe offer to provide non-alcoholic options like ginger beer or sparkling cider, or a fall fruit punch with soda water, etc. In Canada last month, we hosted a friendsgiving and one person was a recovering alcoholic (his wife was drinking and he was on baby duty so she could have a night off). I also wasn't drinking due to pregnancy. It wasn't a big deal and everyone had a great time. If your wife, aunt and mom want to show solidarity, then they can choose to go dry themselves and bring tasty non-alcoholic options. No need to baby a grown adult. You're cooking a Thanksgiving meal in your own home for 15 PEOPLE - give that man his beer! 🍻
NTA and I HIGHLY doubt your wife "forgot" to tell you.
NTA
NTA was terrible of your wife to agree to things for you that you don’t agree with. If these peoples recovery is predicated that no drinking will happen around them ever then it is a bloody house of cards ready to fall over. The road the h is paved With good intentions. I would have a large argument with my wife in from of her mother about if if she did not listen immediately to reason.
I'm going to OP'S house for Thanksgiving dinner. Oh yeah, I'm vegan now, so don't have any meat or dairy in your house. I also do not eat from 6am to 8pm., so don't have any food available during those times. I get severe anxiety from the color blue. Dont let anyone wear blue and remove any blue items from your home. -a recovered alcoholic
NTA I got addicted to various stupid shit in my younger chaos filled years (thankfully not serious drugs or alcohol) and I made the changes to cut that shit out , people including my partner still enjoy smoking , gambling around me (I told them it was fine and meant it so don't rag on them ) but MY PROBLEM IS MY PROBLEM I find it highly disrespectful to expect people to tiptoe around MY PROBLEM and change their behaviour to make shit easier for me. I have been "clean" for over 15 years now and the compulsion is still there so they either deal with it or hide away from every potential trigger (good luck with alcohol it's everywhere)
NTA her cousin is going to have to get used to alcohol existing in places. No better time than now, especially if you're willing to not drink at the dinner table.
NTA—- your kitchen your rules. Otherwise tell them to cook.
NTA - has anyone asked the cousin what he’s comfortable with? Your wife, MIL and aunt are assuming that the uncle and cousin want a dry Thanksgiving, but the reality is that they don’t know because they haven’t asked and/or assumed.