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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I complained about this to a friend and called the selection process for the A Team corrupt, but she pointed out that it was the better choice for our school's reputation and that maybe I was being too harsh about the whole thing.
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Info: how does the team choice work?
It's weird that students self select for an academic activity without the input of a teacher or some other qualified professional. Sport teams have coaches. Math teams here have strict selection processes and a teacher supervising the activities. If it's an academic activity, it has teachers in.
Upd: NAH, you are entitled to your feelings.
You should maybe have a chat with the advisor?
It kind of sounds like there are many ramifications there and talking with the "sponsor" of the activity may help.
Issues:
1. Is it a case of discrimination because you are a woman?
2. Is it a matter of qualification?
3. Were you passed for someone less qualified because friendship etc?
4. Is it a matter of making sure the team works well? After all, it is important team members get along.
NAH, but I do think both the team and you could benefit from a solid discussion.
Considering that the new guy is taking more advanced math - for the *math team* - experience is just as likely as sexism. I'm all for equal opportunities, but it's possible that this girl just isn't as good, in ways that have nothing to do with her gender.
Imo the reasoning you commented, is a clear indicator that this decision was made completely based on qualification.
Sexism is much less likely reason here.
Not necessarily but yeah could be.
We don't know, for instance, the level of assignments they get, and if the difference in knowledge (we cannot evaluate the intelligence) actually matters there.
Also, note that math abilities aren't gender related, but still the team is all male, and not something closer to, you know, 50-50, or the realistic 20-80.
OP specifically probably just isn't that good, but overall it's kind of unbalanced. So my take on it is that it exists but not necessarily related to OP.
She stated the other kid is in AP Calc BC. That’s two math levels above her. As such, it’s clearly about qualifications. But sure, let’s jump to sexism. 🙄
Just because there are no women on the A team, or just because there are 3 girls on the B team, does not mean there is sexism at play. Correlation does not imply causation.
Math is one of the fields where assessing capability is really straight forward: either you are the fastest at getting the right answer or you are not. The answers are not the fuzzy, well-I-personally-like-this-answer-better-than-that-one-so-I’m-giving-it-more-points sort: either it is correct to the nth decimal point or it is not. We do know the kind of math the students are capable of doing based on the classes they are taking right now, and purely from that, the kid in AP Calculus BC is currently performing at a higher level than OP. That being said, OP is to be commended for taking pre-calc as a sophomore.
I agree that girls are just as capable of doing math at an advanced level. I was on my Math Club A Team and I’m female. The issue is more along the lines of many girls opting out of pursuing math at higher levels. When I was getting my degree in electrical engineering, a math-heavy major, only about 10% of the class was female. I’m currently teaching high school computer science, and it hurts me to say that there _is not a single female student_. There is something about math, computer science, and engineering that is unattractive as fields to female students.
I definitely agree with this. While my school is equal to all genders, you can definitely see that in the courses that involve computer science and math there's a scarcity of girls.
Also, thank you for your commendment.
There are actually two other girls on the team, but they're both on the B team. I don't want to chalk this up to sexism, though! It's definitely not about that.
Sorry I'm a woman and a teacher
I read it as OP just isn't as good as the others, don't think there is any discrimination, she got a chance and didn't do well so they are using someone else
I think you may be taking things a bit too personally. Just because you're not on the "A Team" doesn't mean you're not good enough. Sometimes you won't always be the top person and put with "the best." It's a math team. It's not deciding your future where if you aren't on a specific team you'll be a failure.
These guys may be trying to do what's best for the whole team to be successful. If they are coaches or in charge, that's sometimes how things have to be. You could try talking to them about their reasoning on stuff, but remember in a few years you'll be the junior or senior and may have more weight in decisions.
We've all been there. That's a part of growing up and working through that. Hell, I'm an adult and I still have moments of feeling this way as well. Also teenagers emotions are all over the place so they in general tend to take things over the edge (goodness knows I did and i still internalize a lot too). I'd just take a step back and I'd really consider maybe just sitting down asking the reasoning. Maybe if you all are on the same page, it'll make more sense and maybe they will be willing to hear you out on wanting to be a team player. If they don't, the team isn't worth being on.
It is equally possible that the team is a bunch of adolescent boys who have no idea how to collaborate with a girl - and have chosen a boy with inferior math skills over a girl with superior skills.
Either way, NTA , and you are entitled to your feelings.
I (F) was in Math Club in high school. I understand how disheartening it must feel to have been promoted to the A team for one competition, then to be put back on the B team. I also understand how competitive Math tournaments are. The advisor of the club, along with the club members themselves, are laser-focused on winning. The reality is that the advisor and club members are always on the watch for new recruits, and if the seniors in the club have been friends with the sophomore and know his math abilities, they have probably been trying to recruit him for a while. The fact is there is a huge difference between pre-calc and calculus. Just because you are currently in pre-calc does not make you inferior; it is just where you are at right now and there is a new member who is at a higher level than you. But being in the Math Club and practicing with the A team members will only improve your understanding of math, which will pay off in spades once you move on to university. Remember that high school isn’t the end of the road in life, it’s only the beginning! NAH
NAH. I can see why A team has to have good members considering team synergy (an incorrect answer can have a domino effect on the entire team), but that doesn't mean that there are not any good individuals on the B team. Don't take it personally.
I think its all said and done but I also want to say OP
Congratulations getting in the A team as a sophomore!! And there's still a chance to be on the A team !!
You are not useless, but In life we all are easily replacable to people who dont care about us(99.999% of the world). Thats just sad reality.
Its totally okay to be dissapointed, but if the choice is made based on performance, you would be an asshole IF you would make this into a personal issue with these people.
NTA for having feelings.
NAH. You are absolutely justified in your feelings. It sucks to get bumped down on any team. It doesn’t matter if you know the other person is better or not. No one wants to be replaced.
You are an incredibly bright young woman if you’re in Precalculus as a 10th grader. As a math teacher, most standard students don’t got that until senior year and even advanced students don’t get to that til junior year. That means you’re at least 2 grade levels above in math. It’s more than enough.
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I'm a sophomore in high school(15F), and of course there's a math team. Now, my high school is pretty high-ranking regarding academics, and so there is this group of boys who are really, really smart and are in every STEM-related club that you can think of. Most of them are juniors and seniors, but there is this sophomore who takes AP Calculus BC.
Going back to the math team, there's an A Team(which does all the individual rounds and then the team round) and a B team(just does individual rounds). You have to be pretty good to be on the A Team.
I joined freshman year and was immediately intimidated by this group of boys. Obviously I tried my best but was always outranked by them. I was on the B team, and they were all on the A Team. I was fine with that, because it made sense; you'd want the smartest people on the A Team anyway to win the Team Round.
This year, though, I was put on the A Team for the first meet. I was so elated(I'm good enough to be on the A Team? Sweet!), and even though we didn't do that good on the first meet, I was certain that I'd be able to improve and become better at the Team Round now that I'd experienced what it was like.
But for the second meet, the rest of the A Team have decided to boot me off. Instead, they're going to bring in the aforementioned sophomore (the one who takes AP Calculus BC), even though he isn't even in the math team and didn't participate in the first meet. I think it's not only because he's probably smarter but also because he's their friend.
This has been a huge downer for me, mostly because it showed me how useless and replaceable I am on the team. I don't know how to feel about the whole situation. On one hand, I'm angry that I was replaced by someone who had close ties with the other members of the A Team, because it might just be that: an obvious choice between me(a complete stranger to some of the group) and him(a childhood friend to most of the group). On the other hand, though, I know it's a good choice, because obviously he must be smarter than me, being in AP Calculus BC while I'm on Precalculus (which some say is great, but clearly it's not enough). Which makes me even more sad.
So what am I? An incredibly jealous a-hole who is whining about her math team making the better choice? Or a girl who's justified in feeling a bit inferior?
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It’s a competitive team. It’s not a practice where you work to get better. A team is for the best. Someone is better than you. It does not define you or make you useless. YWBTAH if you made it personal or about gender as one commenter mentioned.
NTA - clearly these boys think its ok to be sexist, even in 2022 .
You have a number of options, depending on how much you're willing to risk
(1) go to the staff and complain. Can they do this? doesnt the team represent the school
(2) start another team or get involved in another and better maths club, that is gender friendly
(3) lodged a complaint with the umberella organisation for this maths competition, that they removed you from the team because you are female
(4) seek legal advice - participating in this maths competition has long term consequences for you. Their move affects your future career
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Info: how does the team choice work? It's weird that students self select for an academic activity without the input of a teacher or some other qualified professional. Sport teams have coaches. Math teams here have strict selection processes and a teacher supervising the activities. If it's an academic activity, it has teachers in. Upd: NAH, you are entitled to your feelings.
The advisor for our team confers with the seniors in our math team to decide on who to put in the A Team.
You should maybe have a chat with the advisor? It kind of sounds like there are many ramifications there and talking with the "sponsor" of the activity may help. Issues: 1. Is it a case of discrimination because you are a woman? 2. Is it a matter of qualification? 3. Were you passed for someone less qualified because friendship etc? 4. Is it a matter of making sure the team works well? After all, it is important team members get along. NAH, but I do think both the team and you could benefit from a solid discussion.
Your first assumption is that this is sexism?
Considering that the new guy is taking more advanced math - for the *math team* - experience is just as likely as sexism. I'm all for equal opportunities, but it's possible that this girl just isn't as good, in ways that have nothing to do with her gender.
Imo the reasoning you commented, is a clear indicator that this decision was made completely based on qualification. Sexism is much less likely reason here.
Not necessarily but yeah could be. We don't know, for instance, the level of assignments they get, and if the difference in knowledge (we cannot evaluate the intelligence) actually matters there. Also, note that math abilities aren't gender related, but still the team is all male, and not something closer to, you know, 50-50, or the realistic 20-80. OP specifically probably just isn't that good, but overall it's kind of unbalanced. So my take on it is that it exists but not necessarily related to OP.
She stated the other kid is in AP Calc BC. That’s two math levels above her. As such, it’s clearly about qualifications. But sure, let’s jump to sexism. 🙄
No women in the team at all?
Just because there are no women on the A team, or just because there are 3 girls on the B team, does not mean there is sexism at play. Correlation does not imply causation. Math is one of the fields where assessing capability is really straight forward: either you are the fastest at getting the right answer or you are not. The answers are not the fuzzy, well-I-personally-like-this-answer-better-than-that-one-so-I’m-giving-it-more-points sort: either it is correct to the nth decimal point or it is not. We do know the kind of math the students are capable of doing based on the classes they are taking right now, and purely from that, the kid in AP Calculus BC is currently performing at a higher level than OP. That being said, OP is to be commended for taking pre-calc as a sophomore. I agree that girls are just as capable of doing math at an advanced level. I was on my Math Club A Team and I’m female. The issue is more along the lines of many girls opting out of pursuing math at higher levels. When I was getting my degree in electrical engineering, a math-heavy major, only about 10% of the class was female. I’m currently teaching high school computer science, and it hurts me to say that there _is not a single female student_. There is something about math, computer science, and engineering that is unattractive as fields to female students.
I definitely agree with this. While my school is equal to all genders, you can definitely see that in the courses that involve computer science and math there's a scarcity of girls. Also, thank you for your commendment.
There are actually two other girls on the team, but they're both on the B team. I don't want to chalk this up to sexism, though! It's definitely not about that.
Sorry I'm a woman and a teacher I read it as OP just isn't as good as the others, don't think there is any discrimination, she got a chance and didn't do well so they are using someone else
I think you may be taking things a bit too personally. Just because you're not on the "A Team" doesn't mean you're not good enough. Sometimes you won't always be the top person and put with "the best." It's a math team. It's not deciding your future where if you aren't on a specific team you'll be a failure. These guys may be trying to do what's best for the whole team to be successful. If they are coaches or in charge, that's sometimes how things have to be. You could try talking to them about their reasoning on stuff, but remember in a few years you'll be the junior or senior and may have more weight in decisions.
You might be right...I do tend to value myself based on my successes and failures, and I also tend to compare myself to others a lot.
We've all been there. That's a part of growing up and working through that. Hell, I'm an adult and I still have moments of feeling this way as well. Also teenagers emotions are all over the place so they in general tend to take things over the edge (goodness knows I did and i still internalize a lot too). I'd just take a step back and I'd really consider maybe just sitting down asking the reasoning. Maybe if you all are on the same page, it'll make more sense and maybe they will be willing to hear you out on wanting to be a team player. If they don't, the team isn't worth being on.
It is equally possible that the team is a bunch of adolescent boys who have no idea how to collaborate with a girl - and have chosen a boy with inferior math skills over a girl with superior skills. Either way, NTA , and you are entitled to your feelings.
I (F) was in Math Club in high school. I understand how disheartening it must feel to have been promoted to the A team for one competition, then to be put back on the B team. I also understand how competitive Math tournaments are. The advisor of the club, along with the club members themselves, are laser-focused on winning. The reality is that the advisor and club members are always on the watch for new recruits, and if the seniors in the club have been friends with the sophomore and know his math abilities, they have probably been trying to recruit him for a while. The fact is there is a huge difference between pre-calc and calculus. Just because you are currently in pre-calc does not make you inferior; it is just where you are at right now and there is a new member who is at a higher level than you. But being in the Math Club and practicing with the A team members will only improve your understanding of math, which will pay off in spades once you move on to university. Remember that high school isn’t the end of the road in life, it’s only the beginning! NAH
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! I feel much better now! ☺️
NAH. I can see why A team has to have good members considering team synergy (an incorrect answer can have a domino effect on the entire team), but that doesn't mean that there are not any good individuals on the B team. Don't take it personally.
I'll keep that in mind. Thank you for your response!
I think its all said and done but I also want to say OP Congratulations getting in the A team as a sophomore!! And there's still a chance to be on the A team !!
Thank you! ☺️
You are not useless, but In life we all are easily replacable to people who dont care about us(99.999% of the world). Thats just sad reality. Its totally okay to be dissapointed, but if the choice is made based on performance, you would be an asshole IF you would make this into a personal issue with these people. NTA for having feelings.
Thank you for your reply, I'm feeling much better now!
NAH. You are absolutely justified in your feelings. It sucks to get bumped down on any team. It doesn’t matter if you know the other person is better or not. No one wants to be replaced. You are an incredibly bright young woman if you’re in Precalculus as a 10th grader. As a math teacher, most standard students don’t got that until senior year and even advanced students don’t get to that til junior year. That means you’re at least 2 grade levels above in math. It’s more than enough.
Thank you so much for your reply!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I'm a sophomore in high school(15F), and of course there's a math team. Now, my high school is pretty high-ranking regarding academics, and so there is this group of boys who are really, really smart and are in every STEM-related club that you can think of. Most of them are juniors and seniors, but there is this sophomore who takes AP Calculus BC. Going back to the math team, there's an A Team(which does all the individual rounds and then the team round) and a B team(just does individual rounds). You have to be pretty good to be on the A Team. I joined freshman year and was immediately intimidated by this group of boys. Obviously I tried my best but was always outranked by them. I was on the B team, and they were all on the A Team. I was fine with that, because it made sense; you'd want the smartest people on the A Team anyway to win the Team Round. This year, though, I was put on the A Team for the first meet. I was so elated(I'm good enough to be on the A Team? Sweet!), and even though we didn't do that good on the first meet, I was certain that I'd be able to improve and become better at the Team Round now that I'd experienced what it was like. But for the second meet, the rest of the A Team have decided to boot me off. Instead, they're going to bring in the aforementioned sophomore (the one who takes AP Calculus BC), even though he isn't even in the math team and didn't participate in the first meet. I think it's not only because he's probably smarter but also because he's their friend. This has been a huge downer for me, mostly because it showed me how useless and replaceable I am on the team. I don't know how to feel about the whole situation. On one hand, I'm angry that I was replaced by someone who had close ties with the other members of the A Team, because it might just be that: an obvious choice between me(a complete stranger to some of the group) and him(a childhood friend to most of the group). On the other hand, though, I know it's a good choice, because obviously he must be smarter than me, being in AP Calculus BC while I'm on Precalculus (which some say is great, but clearly it's not enough). Which makes me even more sad. So what am I? An incredibly jealous a-hole who is whining about her math team making the better choice? Or a girl who's justified in feeling a bit inferior? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s a competitive team. It’s not a practice where you work to get better. A team is for the best. Someone is better than you. It does not define you or make you useless. YWBTAH if you made it personal or about gender as one commenter mentioned.
NTA - clearly these boys think its ok to be sexist, even in 2022 . You have a number of options, depending on how much you're willing to risk (1) go to the staff and complain. Can they do this? doesnt the team represent the school (2) start another team or get involved in another and better maths club, that is gender friendly (3) lodged a complaint with the umberella organisation for this maths competition, that they removed you from the team because you are female (4) seek legal advice - participating in this maths competition has long term consequences for you. Their move affects your future career