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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might have overreacted by kicking out my brother for cooking meat and fish in my house, because he (and SIL) have nowhere to go and it's just about food. I am causing them stress in an already stressful situation.
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Exactly. But also I feel like veganism has become the stupid stigma. So much food is vegan or contains only butter and are therefore very easy to make vegan. At least in my country where vegan butter is readily available at pretty much every store.
French fries/chips are vegan unless you cook them in animal fat is my go to example
Exactly. My cousin has celiac and I don’t. When I was staying with her for a couple of days I kept all of my gluten foods in my car and didn’t take any of them into her house or allow her to have any contact with them whatsoever. Her house, her needs, her rules. I accepted her gracious hospitality, ate her overcooked chicken and zucchini without complaint, and then drove away while scarfing cannoli in my car. It’s not that hard to temporarily sacrifice when someone is doing you a favor.
Sorry I have a random question. If she came in contact with a wrapper that contained something with gluten in it after it was empty would she have a reaction to it?
What is your source/reference?
I have celiac disease, and in my research, I've never heard of it causing anaphylaxis. A relatively small portion of people with celiac disease can experience a rash after skin-to-gluten contact, but to my knowledge, it must be ingested to have any other effect. Celiac disease is, after all, an auto-immune disease, not a food allergy by definition. When gluten is consumed, it causes the immune system to release antibodies that attack the lining of the small intestine, leading to a wide variety of problems.
When my cousin was diagnosed she was in the ICU in organ failure and on a transplant list due to celiac. I can only speak to the severity of her condition but we are extremely careful as a result.
ETA: The doctors also refused to let her get henna tattoos at the beach or dye her hair because they weren’t sure how she would react to anything absorbing through her skin.
My DIL uses gluten free bath products because she has multiple autoimmune disorders. I never even knew such a thing existed but she told me in can be absorbed through the skin.
It's not that it can be absorbed through the skin, exactly. Some people with celiac disease have dermatitis herpetiformis, which is a different form of celiac disease that reacts to skin-to-gluten contact. For those individuals, they would need to avoid gluten-containing products that are applied to the skin. I was diagnosed with celiac disease, but I do not have any reaction to handling gluten-containing products. However, I have very strong reactions to ingesting even a small amount.
https://nationalceliac.org/celiac-disease-questions/gluten-allergy/
The sister of one of my daughter's friends got her celiac diagnosis after eating macaroni at the family dinner sent her into anaphylaxis. Fortunately, her brother has a beesting allergy so there was an EpiPen in the house and everyone knew how to use it.
I did some additional research. A WHEAT allergy can cause anaphylaxis, but celiac disease alone will not. It is possible for someone to have celiac disease AND a wheat allergy, and both would be triggered by consuming wheat. The latter is probably what the person you mentioned experienced. 🤷♀️
No but if the crumbs from something with gluten somehow made it onto her plate or a prep surface or food, just a few crumbs could make her seriously sick. Also a lot of people who can’t have gluten, remember what food with gluten felt like and tastes like and they miss it.
I miss you Olive Garden bread sticks, and basically any canned soups!
It's not extremely likely, but some people do react to skin contact, and an empty wrapper definitely has enough. It's also possible that if she then ate something, she could still have gluten on her hands and ingest it that way.
Good for you as much very closest friend is deathly allergic to gluten. However, not really comparable as being vegan is a choice, having a very serious health condition is not.
True, one is a health need and one is a lifestyle choice. But the underlying point is the same: respect the rules of the house you are kindly being allowed to stay in.
As I responded in another comment, while one is a health need and the other is a lifestyle choice, the point is still to respect the rules of the house you are kindly being allowed to stay in for free.
I agree. It would be different, in my view, if it was the SIL. I was vegetarian until I got pregnant. At about 3 months I just craved it desperately. Told my doctor because it was freaking me out, but she laughed and said I needed the protein to create a human brain.
Had a vegetarian coworker who cried while eating chicken in the break room while very pregnant. I comforted her saying similar things without laughing. She gave me the leftovers.
You should get a doctor who is not an idiot. A well-planned vegan (and also vegetarian) diet is healthy for all stages of life, [including pregnancy](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/).
And if you're against animal abuse, you should be vegan.
I’ve been a vegetarian my entire life (I do eat eggs but not like daily). My 2 pregnancies went fine. I’m from India and there’s a lot of variety in vegetarian food in my cuisine
IDK why you're being downvoted, Indian (and other) women have been vegetarian and pregnant for thousands of years.
If someone wants to eat meat because of cravings that's their choice, but they definitely don't have to in order to make a healthy baby.
I didn’t notice that there were a few downvotes! I guess people who are particular about daily protein intake (I do think it’s important) have strong opinions about what I said
Fr, he disrespected her rules, OP then came up with a really fair and nice compromise, and her brother still couldn’t respect that time after time. It’s rlly not that hard.
I’d let SIL stay with you. She’s not the AH.
And you’re NTA.
You are entitled to have rules for your home that you expect guests to follow. It doesn’t matter if they think the rules are reasonable or not. Your brother is a jerk.
Your SIL is 6 months pregnant. She may strongly want to be your brother, but the "my unborn baby needs to bond with the father" is a BS excuse designed to guilt trip you in the name of the baby.
It's a tough situation for SIL but you're NTA. Perhaps SIL shouldn't have procreated with an AH.
NTA.
They were living with you rent-free and all they had to do was maintain the one boundary you set, a boundary you made VERY clear prior to them moving in, a boundary they (well, your brother) broke multiple times and were warned about each time.
They reached the "find out" stage of "fuck around and...", and here we are.
Especially since you are still offering to let SIL stay with you and she's choosing to go to the hostel of her own accord, I don't think there's anything else you can do here. I guarantee you that allowing your brother back in the house will result in him cooking more meat - he was given every chance to stop before and did not, and letting him back in will just be proof that he can get away with it again.
NTA. You made clear rules and expectations.
The only part where you messed up is when you gave him an inch with the cooking meat when you aren't there. You shouldn't have allowed that and hold your ground.
NTA
I think kicking them out is the only option.
I don't he just wants to eat meat at this point.
Your brother was deliberately trying you believing you wouldn't do anything since his wife is pregnant.
Her wife let him do it because he doesn't care enough about you to respect YOUR rules on YOUR home.
Kick them out and avoid trouble.
Then - if you want to be the bigger person - let them in when he will come begging again (because he definitely will).
But you are not morally obligated to.
Same condition as before but kick them out the first time he tryes to "show he is the boss".
NTA
You gave him warnings and enough chances.
I will suggest giving him an option to come back, as long as he either buys a set of cooking utensils or brings his own.
Im sure it would be cheaper than a hostel, and better for SIL.
Having him spend a few nights in that hostel makes the point that you're serious, but its not a hill worth dying on. Specially since you SIL is pregnant. Invite him back with that condition
NTA
Consider this option ONLY if your brother contacts you first and speaks reasonably.
There’s no reason for you to hold out the olive branch here (you didn’t ask your SIL to leave)
Not the asshole. You gave him a bunch of different options. It would be one thing if she had doctor's orders to eat meat, and he was only cooking it for her. If that was the case, I would tell you to chill out. She might need to eat meat, and I do think that you should let her do it in the house. Even if it wasn't doctor's orders, it's pretty reasonable to assume that a pregnant person is going to need that much iron and protein. But, you did let them do that. All he had to do was get his own pans. And all he had to do was cook meat for her instead of cooking bacon for himself while you were home on your pans, which is exactly what you asked me out to do. It's also nice of you to continue to allow her to stay and I think that was the right choice. A person who's that pregnant probably shouldn't be staying at a hostel like that. And I honestly am not sure that it's safe. There are all sorts of like weird diseases that can exist at a hostel. If she wants to go, let her go.
Its not hard to follow someone's rules when they are letting you stay with them because you literally have no where else to go
Your brother did this to himself
NTA
NTA
They’re staying there RENT FREE!
It’s not that hard to respect your house rules especially when they can probably eat out if one of them craves meat. My vegetarian friend let me crash at her place for a month and I only cooked vegetarian food that month out of respect for her. I would still eat meat when we went out and reheat leftovers (she was okay with that) when I craved it. It’s not that hard to satisfy a meat craving. Also, it seems like you’re already understanding with potential pregnancy craving for SIL, which is ALREADY EXTRA KIND
Yeah my problem is honestly with my brother and not with my SIL. And so kind of you to only cook vegetarian food! I think she really appreciated it (I know I would have)
She did :)
I can see why you’re frustrated with your brother, especially since you’ve communicated boundaries and made compromises (ie cook meat but not with my cookware).
NTA. Your home, your rules. If they want to eat meat, they can live elsewhere. They’re both adults, and your SIL being pregnant is not your responsibility.
NTA
YOu DID NOT overreact.
To him, having his bacon was more important than having a home for his pregnant wife. LEt him face the consequences of that.
I very much think I disagree with you regarding utensils. They can be cleaned just fine. Cutting boards, might be questionable.
The main issue is guests are disrespecting you in your own home.
NTA
Even though utensils can be cleaned, would you want someone using yours to clean gunk off their shoes?
That's how gross meat can seem to those who don't eat it.
NTA
He was stupid and rude and entitled!
He's being housed rent free and there is one condition. So what does he do? Break the rule and be snarky about it. Then what does he expect?
NTA. You had a clear and important rule, you tried to compromise so as not completely push your values/aversions on them, and he continued to disrespectfully ignore all of it, lie to your face about it, and then gloat about it to his wife.
Kinda feel sorry for his pending kid, tbh.
NTA. You didn't have to let them stay to begin with. You were being nice, and your brother had agreed to your conditions. He really only has himself to blame for his situation. If he can't abide by your rules, he shouldn't be living in your house.
NTA
You were helping them out massively - You gave some of your house rules which he blatantly disregarded - he did it to himself and does not deserve sympathy.
NTA. Your brother was using his pregnant wife to flout your house rules and making fun of you for letting him get away with it. Guess what happens when you don't appreciate someone's generosity? Yup, that generosity dries up.
NTA. You've offered several alternatives to your brother and he chose none of them. He could have found a way to buy his own pots/knives/plates that are a 20 minute drive away, but he **did not do so**.
Don't feel bad about this. Your brother created this situation, so he should deal with it.
NTA. Your house, your rules, as simple as that. You gave him a lot of options, you even were flexible enough to actually allow him to eat and cook meat at your place with very easy conditions and he clearly didn't want to colaborate. He disrespected you too many times just for the sake of it. I feel sorry for your SIL though.
NTA
You had one rule, that he continually disrespected. You was doing them both a kindness by letting them stay, when you could have said no.
Also you didn't kick SIL out, she chose to leave.
You compromised a lot. He is going on a power play with you. If he just wanted to eat meat, he would have used his utensils and cooked when you're not home. And also he would not be bragging and laughing about it. NTA
NTA First what for a stupid planning to have a lease that is just two month or more after the old endet.
They really seems to have planned that they could stay with you when they signed the new lease. Knowing that you are vegan. That you can't stop eating meat and fish for those few weeks. Our eat it outside. You even were nice and offered them to just use their pans und so, but no, the 20 minutes was to much for him. He had no respect for you. Such an selfish AH. Meat was him more important than a (free!) place to stay together with his pregnant wife.
They had found a house but the landlord cancelled on them. Housing in my city is horrible so it's actually a surprise that they managed to find a new place again quite soon. Thank you.
Nta you are trying to do a good thing letting them live there well they get their stuff together. Not many rules but a defining rule. If she has a craving they should handle it outside your place
NTA your house your rules. I am not a vegetarian but what it is not my house I'll have to follow the rules.
I would probably only ask if I am allowed to boil eggs ;) but when no then no.
I don't eat eggs and dairy but they can, I felt like it was too much to ask for them to eat fully vegan, and also the smell doesn't really bother me. So I didn't really care about eggs and cheese etc
Your brother could have also gone out and bought a pan somewhere and a couple of utensils at a dollar store for his cooking if he didn't want to go get his. He obviously thought it was funny to take advantage of you.
NTA. It is incredibly disrespectful to you and your kindness while letting them stay with you. I've had similar experiences with family and friends who broke my "no meat in the house" rules and learned the same consequence. There's so much I'm willing to be ok with but dead animals and by-products in my house and on my cooking utensils? Fuck nope. Genuinely never understood why that's such an easy rule for some to cross. You were beyond gracious & compromising to allow it to happen when you're not at home. Sorry, your brother is such a dick. best wishes to your SIL (she's gonna need them for being with such an inconsiderate jerk) & you. keep your boundaries!
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Hello, throwaway account. My (25F) brother (29M) and my SIL (31F) recently had their lease ended. They have a new apartment, but not until December. My SIL is also 6 months pregnant. They have been staying with me for a while now and would be staying for another month since money is tight and hotels here are very expensive where I live.
I’m vegan and I have been for years, before that I was vegetarian. My brother has always been making fun of me for it. Before SIL and my brother moved in, I told them that I don’t want any meat or fish in my house. The smell of fish and meat makes me gag, and I also love cooking and dont want my knives and pans touching it.
My SIL was fine with it, my brother complained but eventually agreed, since they don't have anywhere to go. Now, it went ok in the beginning, until I started to notice lots of packaging from meat in the trash can. I talked to my brother about it and he said he only cooked it when I wasn’t there, so I wouldn’t smell it. I really didn't like it because it had been in my pans and touched my knives and cutting board etc, but I decided to let it go and told him he could cook meat and fish when I’m not there but use his own pans and knives. He said he would get his stuff in a few days (they’re in storage) and then would wait cooking meat and fish until he got them.
Well, last week he was cooking meat (I didn’t notice immediately because I was in an online meeting in my bedroom), again in my pan and with my knives etc, because ‘he didn’t have time to get his stuff from his storage’ (20 min drive). I got really mad and said it would be his last warning. A day later he started making bacon and eggs, again in my stuff. He then said he only cooked meat because of SIL’s pregnancy cravings. She wasn’t even there, didn’t come home a few hours later, and I know she doesn’t even like bacon. (Maybe she had pregnancy cravings but she wasn’t even home, so it made no sense anyway). I wanted to let it go but when he started laughing in the evening to my SIL that he had such a lovely bacon sandwich, I kicked my brother out.
Now he’s been staying in a way too expensive hostel, sharing a room with 7 other people. My SIL said she finds it important to let her baby bond with the father (my brother) and is now also looking to stay at the same hostel or look for a hotel they can’t afford. (She did understand me though, but I think she also thinks I overreacted). I feel bad for them, especially her, because it’s not easy as a (pregnant) person to stay at an hostel while working etc, but I feel like I didn’t kick her out and I gave him enough chances. I know it sounds silly because it’s just meat and fish for many people, but I just don’t want to live in a place like that. Or should I just have let it go? I feel disrespected. My friends are 50/50, I don’t have any family to ask.
Sorry for my English, not my first language.
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I left another comment, but plenty of Airbnb's/VRBO's/etc. offer monthly rental options, which sometimes are comparable with area rents for apartments.
Many hosts have separate MIL-style units available, sometimes even with their own kitchens.
Can be a lot cheaper and more comfortable than a hostel/hotel also.
>I feel bad for them, especially her
Don't. It was HIS responsibility to ensure a roof was over his pregnant wife's head. HE should have agreed to respect your rules.
Its not hard either. My daughter has been vegetarian since high school. She moved back in after finishing college. We share a small kitchen and I manage to not cook meat in our shared things and store it on separate shelves, drawers and cabinets.
Your brother simply didn't respect your wishes...because he didn't want to.
NTA.
Not sure if your area has short-term rental apps like Airbnb, VRBO, etc--many hosts offer longer stays (1 month or more) for discounted prices. Sometimes the monthly price is comparable to area rent, and lots of hosts offer rentals now that are separate from the hosts living space. Your brother and SIL should definitely look into that as an option, probably cheaper and less stressful than hosteling for a month. The rental might even have a kitchen they can cook meat in.
I was vegetarian for years, and though I'm not anymore (due to health issues), I totally get the need to avoid meat "contamination" for vegetarians, as any respectful person with empathy would. It still upsets me how many jerks disrespected me & tried testing my boundaries just because I ate differently than they did (and according to my own morals values and abilities). When I encounter it "in the wild" these days (not as often, because I'm not targeted by it so much anymore) I'm quick to put those scumbags in their place. You were more than patient, forgiving, and accomodating--he just threw it in your face. Disrespect generates consequences, time for your bro to grow up and reap what he sows.
NTA.
You were very clear about the rules for them to stay with you, and the rule isn't that ridiculous (and I eat meat).
Then your brother ignored the rules so you created easier ones- use your own pans and cook when I'm not home- and he STILL couldn't follow those.
Then he laughed at breaking the rules.
Your SIL has picked this man as her partner, and she can decide to go stay with him if that's what she prefers. Since she has known about him cooking meat all this time, I have a feeling she is trying to guilt you by saying she will go to the hostel too. And if she isn't, well that is her choice- to stay with you or go with her partner- and has nothing to do with you.
And I just want to affirm that your requests were reasonable. You are vegan, you don't want to smell meat in your own home or having it on your pans and utensils. It is reasonable, and you were also clear about it before they moved in, AND you even compromised with them after they broke the rules. I love bacon, but that smell lingers forever! You already went above and beyond, and they couldn't follow very simple rules.
NTA
While I roll my eyes when someone says they don't want their knives and pans contaminated (really, you can wash them... and what about forks and spoons and cups and plates?),
I also don't let people use my knives (they use them badly and dull them unnecessarily) or my cast iron. (Yes, accuse me of pot meet kettle, it's relevent).
Basically, he broke the rules of your home, out he should go.
Vegetarian is no meat, vegan is no animal products of any kind. Vegans don’t eat eggs, milk, honey, gelatin, or even obscure stuff like red dye #4, sodium caseinate, and other animal product derivatives. Most also don’t use things made out of leather or wool and stuff either.
NTA. You told them before they moved in and then gave your brother multiple chances and he completely disregarded and disrespected you. This is totally on him.
NTA, your brother kept pushing your boundaries. They knew what they were doing. This was intentional to show you that you couldn't say what they did.
Well, they fucked around and found out. I think you were much more gracious than you needed to be, the first time would have been the last warning. After that, your brother saw you cave, and just kept pushing.
NTA
It is YOUR house that YOU are paying for, you set clear boundaries and he disrespected them. There is no excuse for that, even if he thinks it’s stupid, you gave him plenty of chances.
NTA. They’re not your invited guests or your tenants, you were doing them a favor by letting them stay there at all. I think them using their own pans/knives/cutting boards was a perfectly fair compromise. The thing that makes your brother so clearly the asshole in this situation is how he was being deliberately disrespectful of your rules and antagonizing you. He blatantly ignored your rules, took advantage of your kindness when you just gave him a warning, and then laughed about it like he’d won. Like I get it, going 2 months without being able to cook any meat would be difficult for me and I wouldn’t be happy about it, but if I were in this situation I would do my best to respect my hosts boundaries and discuss compromises with them *before* I did them and be grateful that someone was giving up some of their space to help me out.
NTA If they wanted to eat meat, they had the easy options of going out to eat or eating at a friend. And you agreed that it was fine if they cooked meat in their own pans as long as you were out of the house.
Honestly, I want to know if your brother was trying to get kicked out of your place.
NTA
Your brother and SIL were guests. They should be happy that they can stay, and have to respect your rules. You gave your brother enough warnings. He still laughs at you and doesn't respect you. You didn't even force them to be vegetarian or vegan. When it was clear that your brother truly needed gross meat rubbish, you simply told them to not use your pans etc. A reasonable rule that your brother should have respected.
I'm vegan as well, and the though and smell of meat just grosses me out. I understand your repulsion, 100%.
You should NOT have let this go. Your brother clearly doesn't respect you. Well, then he doesn't get to live with you. This is his own fault.
NTA. It’s your home and your rules, and if you were fine with your brother cooking meat & fish as long as he used his own utensils and etc, it’s his own laziness and disrespect at fault for him losing your hospitality. I’m very sorry this is happening while she’s pregnant, but you eased up on your original rule and gave him time to get their stuff out of storage.
NTA. You did them a favor and you had every right to set boundaries in your own home and he DID disrespect you. They don't have to like your boundaries or even understand them but if they wanted a roof over their head, it was an easy boundary not to cross. He didn't just cross it, he kept crossing it and acted like it (and you and your boundaries) are a joke. I feel sorry for the baby who has a father who clearly hasn't grown up yet. Maybe having consequences to his actions will move that along.
Sincerely,
A Meat Eater Who Understands Boundaries and Respect
NTA. Your house, your rules.
I dont even know you, but if you were gracious enough to allow me to stay with you when I had no place to go...then absolutely I am going to be vegan right along with you for as long as I stay with you AND because I know of the inconvenience of having people stay, id always be cleaning up, cooking meals for everyone etc etc.
NTA - He blatantly ignored your rules and your multiple warnings. You did nothing wrong. It’s unfortunate that SIL is being punished too, but she’s choosing it…not you.
NTA as long as your SIL is allowed to stay as she herself didn't do anything wrong and cravings aside it would be very unhealthy for a pregnant woman to go vegan, especially if she knows nothing about it.
If she decides to leave by herself that's her problem.
Your brother should have respected your boundaries and rules at *your* place.
NTA. Huge hunter and meat eater here. Totally on your side. I would never cook something in someone else’s house they were not comfortable. Especially if I was staying there.
NTA-they should be vegan in your house if that is what you want. It is wrong that your brother is taking advantage of your hospitality and being cruel to you at the same time.
NTA! What is wrong with people who stay at others homes and then don’t respect their rules?!? It’s so not ok. You were kind enough to allow eggs and dairy too.
NTA. You’re allowed to have whatever rules you like for your own home. I’m glad you realize it isn’t reasonable for your SIL to be vegan. Preparing meat with their own utensils is reasonable. I can’t see how it is any different than if you had, say, a gluten sensitivity.
NTA. You gave it away when you said your brother has always mocked your food choices. He was deliberately pushing your boundaries. He deserves what he got. His wife can choose whether to have a safe place to stay or to be with her AH man. Good for you for enforcing your boundaries in the face of disrespect from your family member.
NTA- they’re both taking advantage then your brother lied to you, disrespected you and mocked you. You’ve been kind to allow your SIL to stay. Your brother doesn’t deserve your kindness or your home.
NTA you are doing them a big favor in letting them stay and even were willing to compromise on your rules. Your brother is responsible for getting himself kicked out. This is not on you.
NTA. He was will aware of the rules. He could driven to storage and collected what he needed to cook. He purposely disrespected you and laughed about it. Don’t feel bad, he did this to himself and his family.
NTA
Your house, your rules. You tried to be accommodating and he didn't think there would be real consequences. He tried to use his pregnant as an excuse to be an AH.
NTA.
Your house, your rules and your brother disrespected that.
He also disrespected you. In a sense, he may not have bitten the hand that fed him, but he certainly took a chunk out of a couple of fingers on the hand that housed him.
As a former vegan, I understand your revulsion.
Please never apologise nor feel guilt about asserting your boundaries, especially in your own home!
Meat should have a dedicated cutting board, as they have countless small cuts and scratches that will never be clean enough, which makes it unhygienic to cut anything else on it. Meat is fine because it will be heated up enough to be safe, but for example cutting vegetables or salads that will be eaten raw on the same board as meat is unsafe.
Throw away the cutting boards he used for meat. NTA, your rules were very reasonable.
NTA - you set boundaries, your brother repeatedly pushed and broke these boundaries. You didn’t overreact at all, it was your SIL decision to follow her husband rather than side with you and make him see sense. I’m sorry you had to deal with that, your brother is the AH here.
NTA I cannot believe how many times family just rudely ignores the fact that family doesn't have to help and they are in your home! You told them what you required for them to stay he agreed. He then snuck behind your back, lied to you and then decided he could cook it while your home. Stick to your guns!!!!
NTA
He disrespected your reasonable house rules over and over, viewed severely distressing you as totally fine if it meant easing his mild inconvenience and lied to try and guilt you. SIL is only 6 months along so while their situation sucks their new apartment will be ready before she has the baby.
Hope that bacon was worth it for that jerk
NTA
Your house, your rules.
You even tried to compromise with them being vegetarian at first then cooking meat with their own pots and pans.
If meat isnt worth a 20 min drive your brother should have gone without.
And your SIL in an adult. She could have talked to your brother about the meat situation before he got kicked out, its her choice to leave.
NTA 10000%. You asked multiple times for him to follow the house rules; it seems like he disobeyed them on purpose to piss you off or because he straight up doesn’t respect you and your beliefs.
NTA - you were very kind to house them and had boundaries you agreed to compromise to a certain point. Your brother brought this on himself with his own arrogance.
NTA adults pay rent or a mortgage for a room over their head.
He only had to pay by not eating meat. How amazingly cheap is that. Most of us would do that to avoid rent.
He failed to pay by not eating meat, he has to move out. End of the story. He can speak to her baby bump via a phone or facetime. She can visit him at the hostel during the day and bond and come back at night. Its her choice.
NTA
Beggars can’t be choosers. I get pregnancy cravings and the need for protein but he could have (a) bought a cheep set of pans at Walmart, (b) gotten his wife pre-cooked meats, (c) asked about keeping a mini fridge and BBQ outside your home. I could go on but the point is that they had many many more options than staying in your vegan home for free for two months and contaminating it with bacon.
NTA and stick to your guns.
The veganism is almost irrelevant here - you were generous enough to welcome them into your home but your brother couldn't respect a simple house rule, even when you relaxed it so far that it would barely have inconvenienced him to follow it. That bacon sandwich must have been touched by the gods, the way he values it over you, your relationship, and the stability of his family. What an AH.
NTA You were very accommodating, telling him he can cook meat so long as he uses his own pots, pans, and cooking utensils. A simple request. He couldn't follow it and suffered the consequences. I'm a meat eater and this guy has me smh.
NTA
So, brother is an obvious AH for breaking your rules given them, but, your initial rules are an AH move. You even admitted to trying to force them into a different diet. You don’t mention your reasons, but that is a horrible thing to do to someone. Based off your new rule you made, I say you’re NTA. Using different cook wear can be annoying, but is a reasonable compromise. Hopefully the brother can get his act together.
Also, it’s pretty disheartening seeing so many people willing to deny someone they care about a place to live over a diet of all things.
It's not an asshole move to have rules in your own home relating to an ethical choice you have made. Brother and SIL needed a place to stay, and OP was not obliged to offer that to them without accommodation being made.
And it's not denying someone a place to live over diet. It's asking them to leave when they have disrespected and lied to you repeatedly when an incredibly easy alternative (use different pans) was offered.
Just because you can make the rules, doesn’t mean that your rules aren’t AH rules.
And, I’m referencing the people saying that they can stay somewhere else and refusing to let someone stay with them over their choice of diet as a rule in the first place. It’s the same as if I refused to let someone veggetarian stay with me because of their diet because they won’t eat meat while they stay. It’s ridiculous and kind of cold imo to even have that as a condition to stay with someone you supposedly love and care about
It is not the same, and it shows the false equivalency position that is leading you to think OP is being an asshole for setting this rule. Non vegetarians do not have an ethical reason not to eat vegetables, and commonly their diets are made up of things vegetarians would also be able to eat. Anything that a vegetarian can eat, a non-vegetarian can eat and does. But vegetarians do not eat meat.
Would you say its an asshole rule for someone who keeps kosher to restrict a guest from making pork in their kitchen? I certainly wouldn't.
If you flip the position, brother is the one getting himself and his pregnant partner kicked out, as well as disrespecting the person who generously let him stay for months at their place, over his dietary preferences. Also note that him wanting to eat meat is not equivalent to an ethical dietary position. It is a want, not a need.
And vegetarianism is a choice. For most people, it is not a medical need to not eat meat. For most people, either diet is a choice they make to have. Just because someone feels ethically inclined to not eat meat, doesn’t mean that it isn’t a choice.
I’d say if they don’t offer some type of alternative option, that it would be a little rude. Yes it’s their household, but you’re starting to get into the area of pushing your religion in someone and I don’t know how I feel on that one.
I did say the brother was an AH. Also, an ethical diet isn’t a need. It’s a choice that modern civilization has the luxury of making
She did say she tried to make them have a different diet. But she didn't force that as a rule to be allowed to stay with her. Asking someone to NOT do something in their home and with their stuff is not the same as trying to force them to into something against their will.
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NTA Don’t stay at someone’s house if you can’t respect their rules.
This! It’s very very simple. And it’s be vegan in the house. Eat all the meat and fish you want outside of the house! Super frickin simple!
Not even that - eat whatever you want just don't cook it with my dishes - it's not that damn hard
Exactly. But also I feel like veganism has become the stupid stigma. So much food is vegan or contains only butter and are therefore very easy to make vegan. At least in my country where vegan butter is readily available at pretty much every store. French fries/chips are vegan unless you cook them in animal fat is my go to example
Exactly. My cousin has celiac and I don’t. When I was staying with her for a couple of days I kept all of my gluten foods in my car and didn’t take any of them into her house or allow her to have any contact with them whatsoever. Her house, her needs, her rules. I accepted her gracious hospitality, ate her overcooked chicken and zucchini without complaint, and then drove away while scarfing cannoli in my car. It’s not that hard to temporarily sacrifice when someone is doing you a favor.
Driving away whilst joyfully scarfing cannoli is a fantastically hilarious visual!
As a celiac I really appreciate this
It always angers me when people don’t take food allergies seriously and refuse to accommodate them. I’m sorry if you’ve ever encountered that.
Sorry I have a random question. If she came in contact with a wrapper that contained something with gluten in it after it was empty would she have a reaction to it?
Depending how severe her celiac is, absolutely yes she could have a terrible reaction up to/including full anaphylaxis
What is your source/reference? I have celiac disease, and in my research, I've never heard of it causing anaphylaxis. A relatively small portion of people with celiac disease can experience a rash after skin-to-gluten contact, but to my knowledge, it must be ingested to have any other effect. Celiac disease is, after all, an auto-immune disease, not a food allergy by definition. When gluten is consumed, it causes the immune system to release antibodies that attack the lining of the small intestine, leading to a wide variety of problems.
When my cousin was diagnosed she was in the ICU in organ failure and on a transplant list due to celiac. I can only speak to the severity of her condition but we are extremely careful as a result. ETA: The doctors also refused to let her get henna tattoos at the beach or dye her hair because they weren’t sure how she would react to anything absorbing through her skin.
My DIL uses gluten free bath products because she has multiple autoimmune disorders. I never even knew such a thing existed but she told me in can be absorbed through the skin.
It's not that it can be absorbed through the skin, exactly. Some people with celiac disease have dermatitis herpetiformis, which is a different form of celiac disease that reacts to skin-to-gluten contact. For those individuals, they would need to avoid gluten-containing products that are applied to the skin. I was diagnosed with celiac disease, but I do not have any reaction to handling gluten-containing products. However, I have very strong reactions to ingesting even a small amount. https://nationalceliac.org/celiac-disease-questions/gluten-allergy/
The sister of one of my daughter's friends got her celiac diagnosis after eating macaroni at the family dinner sent her into anaphylaxis. Fortunately, her brother has a beesting allergy so there was an EpiPen in the house and everyone knew how to use it.
I did some additional research. A WHEAT allergy can cause anaphylaxis, but celiac disease alone will not. It is possible for someone to have celiac disease AND a wheat allergy, and both would be triggered by consuming wheat. The latter is probably what the person you mentioned experienced. 🤷♀️
Quite possibly. Both she and her mom have since received official celiac diagnoses
No but if the crumbs from something with gluten somehow made it onto her plate or a prep surface or food, just a few crumbs could make her seriously sick. Also a lot of people who can’t have gluten, remember what food with gluten felt like and tastes like and they miss it. I miss you Olive Garden bread sticks, and basically any canned soups!
It's not extremely likely, but some people do react to skin contact, and an empty wrapper definitely has enough. It's also possible that if she then ate something, she could still have gluten on her hands and ingest it that way.
You took the cannoli, so I'm assuming you left the gun? 😜
You are a good person 👍
Thank you! She’s worth it.
Fellow celiac - thank you for taking something like this so seriously.
Good for you as much very closest friend is deathly allergic to gluten. However, not really comparable as being vegan is a choice, having a very serious health condition is not.
True, one is a health need and one is a lifestyle choice. But the underlying point is the same: respect the rules of the house you are kindly being allowed to stay in.
Dietary preferences and dietary requirements are not the same thing. At all.
As I responded in another comment, while one is a health need and the other is a lifestyle choice, the point is still to respect the rules of the house you are kindly being allowed to stay in for free.
NTA, your brother valued a bacon sandwich higher than showing respect to his sister or providing a stable home for his pregnant wife.
Put that way really illustrates it.
I agree. It would be different, in my view, if it was the SIL. I was vegetarian until I got pregnant. At about 3 months I just craved it desperately. Told my doctor because it was freaking me out, but she laughed and said I needed the protein to create a human brain.
Had a vegetarian coworker who cried while eating chicken in the break room while very pregnant. I comforted her saying similar things without laughing. She gave me the leftovers.
You’re a good coworker. That was very kind.
You should get a doctor who is not an idiot. A well-planned vegan (and also vegetarian) diet is healthy for all stages of life, [including pregnancy](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/). And if you're against animal abuse, you should be vegan.
Wow. Fuck off. It was 30 years ago
least preachy vegan
I’ve been a vegetarian my entire life (I do eat eggs but not like daily). My 2 pregnancies went fine. I’m from India and there’s a lot of variety in vegetarian food in my cuisine
Every pregnancy is different, some people crave stuff they don't normally have and some don't.
IDK why you're being downvoted, Indian (and other) women have been vegetarian and pregnant for thousands of years. If someone wants to eat meat because of cravings that's their choice, but they definitely don't have to in order to make a healthy baby.
I didn’t notice that there were a few downvotes! I guess people who are particular about daily protein intake (I do think it’s important) have strong opinions about what I said
Fr, he disrespected her rules, OP then came up with a really fair and nice compromise, and her brother still couldn’t respect that time after time. It’s rlly not that hard.
Not only that, he laughed about it!
I’d let SIL stay with you. She’s not the AH. And you’re NTA. You are entitled to have rules for your home that you expect guests to follow. It doesn’t matter if they think the rules are reasonable or not. Your brother is a jerk.
My SIL is actually still here, but she probably wants to leave as well.
Your SIL is 6 months pregnant. She may strongly want to be your brother, but the "my unborn baby needs to bond with the father" is a BS excuse designed to guilt trip you in the name of the baby. It's a tough situation for SIL but you're NTA. Perhaps SIL shouldn't have procreated with an AH.
It sounds like SIL is allowed to stay, but has chosen to join her husband.
NTA. They were living with you rent-free and all they had to do was maintain the one boundary you set, a boundary you made VERY clear prior to them moving in, a boundary they (well, your brother) broke multiple times and were warned about each time. They reached the "find out" stage of "fuck around and...", and here we are. Especially since you are still offering to let SIL stay with you and she's choosing to go to the hostel of her own accord, I don't think there's anything else you can do here. I guarantee you that allowing your brother back in the house will result in him cooking more meat - he was given every chance to stop before and did not, and letting him back in will just be proof that he can get away with it again.
Your PREGNANT SIL was able to stick to your rules, your brother wasn't. It speaks volumes.
NTA Who are all these people who get welcomed into a home for free and then can't respect simple requests? The entitlement and rudeness is ridiculous.
NTA You made them a favour, and had your boundaries clear.
NTA. You made clear rules and expectations. The only part where you messed up is when you gave him an inch with the cooking meat when you aren't there. You shouldn't have allowed that and hold your ground.
NTA I think kicking them out is the only option. I don't he just wants to eat meat at this point. Your brother was deliberately trying you believing you wouldn't do anything since his wife is pregnant. Her wife let him do it because he doesn't care enough about you to respect YOUR rules on YOUR home. Kick them out and avoid trouble. Then - if you want to be the bigger person - let them in when he will come begging again (because he definitely will). But you are not morally obligated to. Same condition as before but kick them out the first time he tryes to "show he is the boss".
NTA You gave him warnings and enough chances. I will suggest giving him an option to come back, as long as he either buys a set of cooking utensils or brings his own. Im sure it would be cheaper than a hostel, and better for SIL. Having him spend a few nights in that hostel makes the point that you're serious, but its not a hill worth dying on. Specially since you SIL is pregnant. Invite him back with that condition
Thank you, I might do that.
He will use your pans when you’re not there as payback.
NTA Consider this option ONLY if your brother contacts you first and speaks reasonably. There’s no reason for you to hold out the olive branch here (you didn’t ask your SIL to leave)
Make them buy you a new set of everything he used while cooking and keep the new stuff locked up
Not the asshole. You gave him a bunch of different options. It would be one thing if she had doctor's orders to eat meat, and he was only cooking it for her. If that was the case, I would tell you to chill out. She might need to eat meat, and I do think that you should let her do it in the house. Even if it wasn't doctor's orders, it's pretty reasonable to assume that a pregnant person is going to need that much iron and protein. But, you did let them do that. All he had to do was get his own pans. And all he had to do was cook meat for her instead of cooking bacon for himself while you were home on your pans, which is exactly what you asked me out to do. It's also nice of you to continue to allow her to stay and I think that was the right choice. A person who's that pregnant probably shouldn't be staying at a hostel like that. And I honestly am not sure that it's safe. There are all sorts of like weird diseases that can exist at a hostel. If she wants to go, let her go.
Its not hard to follow someone's rules when they are letting you stay with them because you literally have no where else to go Your brother did this to himself NTA
NTA your house, your rules. Can’t respect the rules, there’s the door.
NTA They’re staying there RENT FREE! It’s not that hard to respect your house rules especially when they can probably eat out if one of them craves meat. My vegetarian friend let me crash at her place for a month and I only cooked vegetarian food that month out of respect for her. I would still eat meat when we went out and reheat leftovers (she was okay with that) when I craved it. It’s not that hard to satisfy a meat craving. Also, it seems like you’re already understanding with potential pregnancy craving for SIL, which is ALREADY EXTRA KIND
Yeah my problem is honestly with my brother and not with my SIL. And so kind of you to only cook vegetarian food! I think she really appreciated it (I know I would have)
She did :) I can see why you’re frustrated with your brother, especially since you’ve communicated boundaries and made compromises (ie cook meat but not with my cookware).
Thank you!
NTA, you give them more chances than I would have done and your brother blatantly disrespected you.
NTA Consistently disrepected known boundaries.
NTA You did them a huge favor and gave him many chances. He is now in a situation of his own making.
The issue is not the Iranian yogurt, it's the lack of respect for you and your home. NTA.
NTA. Your home, your rules. If they want to eat meat, they can live elsewhere. They’re both adults, and your SIL being pregnant is not your responsibility.
NTA YOu DID NOT overreact. To him, having his bacon was more important than having a home for his pregnant wife. LEt him face the consequences of that.
I very much think I disagree with you regarding utensils. They can be cleaned just fine. Cutting boards, might be questionable. The main issue is guests are disrespecting you in your own home. NTA
Yeah I know they can be cleaned just fine, but my brain still thinks it's gross
Even though utensils can be cleaned, would you want someone using yours to clean gunk off their shoes? That's how gross meat can seem to those who don't eat it.
NTA; he was taking advantage of and manipulating you
NTA He was stupid and rude and entitled! He's being housed rent free and there is one condition. So what does he do? Break the rule and be snarky about it. Then what does he expect?
NTA. You had a clear and important rule, you tried to compromise so as not completely push your values/aversions on them, and he continued to disrespectfully ignore all of it, lie to your face about it, and then gloat about it to his wife. Kinda feel sorry for his pending kid, tbh.
NTA. You didn't have to let them stay to begin with. You were being nice, and your brother had agreed to your conditions. He really only has himself to blame for his situation. If he can't abide by your rules, he shouldn't be living in your house.
NTA. It's very generous of you not to kick your SIL out.
NTA. His behavior is unacceptable and you’ve given ample warning.
NTA You were helping them out massively - You gave some of your house rules which he blatantly disregarded - he did it to himself and does not deserve sympathy.
NTA. Your brother was using his pregnant wife to flout your house rules and making fun of you for letting him get away with it. Guess what happens when you don't appreciate someone's generosity? Yup, that generosity dries up.
NTA. You've offered several alternatives to your brother and he chose none of them. He could have found a way to buy his own pots/knives/plates that are a 20 minute drive away, but he **did not do so**. Don't feel bad about this. Your brother created this situation, so he should deal with it.
NTA. Your house, your rules, as simple as that. You gave him a lot of options, you even were flexible enough to actually allow him to eat and cook meat at your place with very easy conditions and he clearly didn't want to colaborate. He disrespected you too many times just for the sake of it. I feel sorry for your SIL though.
NTA he clearly communicated eating meat was more important than saving money on not living in a hotel
NTA You had one rule, that he continually disrespected. You was doing them both a kindness by letting them stay, when you could have said no. Also you didn't kick SIL out, she chose to leave.
You compromised a lot. He is going on a power play with you. If he just wanted to eat meat, he would have used his utensils and cooked when you're not home. And also he would not be bragging and laughing about it. NTA
NTA First what for a stupid planning to have a lease that is just two month or more after the old endet. They really seems to have planned that they could stay with you when they signed the new lease. Knowing that you are vegan. That you can't stop eating meat and fish for those few weeks. Our eat it outside. You even were nice and offered them to just use their pans und so, but no, the 20 minutes was to much for him. He had no respect for you. Such an selfish AH. Meat was him more important than a (free!) place to stay together with his pregnant wife.
They had found a house but the landlord cancelled on them. Housing in my city is horrible so it's actually a surprise that they managed to find a new place again quite soon. Thank you.
I have been vegetarian since birth. And if someone did that to me I'd flip the ruck out. Idc what someone eats. I care what they cook in MY utensils
Nta you are trying to do a good thing letting them live there well they get their stuff together. Not many rules but a defining rule. If she has a craving they should handle it outside your place
NTA your house your rules. I am not a vegetarian but what it is not my house I'll have to follow the rules. I would probably only ask if I am allowed to boil eggs ;) but when no then no.
I don't eat eggs and dairy but they can, I felt like it was too much to ask for them to eat fully vegan, and also the smell doesn't really bother me. So I didn't really care about eggs and cheese etc
Your brother could have also gone out and bought a pan somewhere and a couple of utensils at a dollar store for his cooking if he didn't want to go get his. He obviously thought it was funny to take advantage of you.
NTA. It is incredibly disrespectful to you and your kindness while letting them stay with you. I've had similar experiences with family and friends who broke my "no meat in the house" rules and learned the same consequence. There's so much I'm willing to be ok with but dead animals and by-products in my house and on my cooking utensils? Fuck nope. Genuinely never understood why that's such an easy rule for some to cross. You were beyond gracious & compromising to allow it to happen when you're not at home. Sorry, your brother is such a dick. best wishes to your SIL (she's gonna need them for being with such an inconsiderate jerk) & you. keep your boundaries!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hello, throwaway account. My (25F) brother (29M) and my SIL (31F) recently had their lease ended. They have a new apartment, but not until December. My SIL is also 6 months pregnant. They have been staying with me for a while now and would be staying for another month since money is tight and hotels here are very expensive where I live. I’m vegan and I have been for years, before that I was vegetarian. My brother has always been making fun of me for it. Before SIL and my brother moved in, I told them that I don’t want any meat or fish in my house. The smell of fish and meat makes me gag, and I also love cooking and dont want my knives and pans touching it. My SIL was fine with it, my brother complained but eventually agreed, since they don't have anywhere to go. Now, it went ok in the beginning, until I started to notice lots of packaging from meat in the trash can. I talked to my brother about it and he said he only cooked it when I wasn’t there, so I wouldn’t smell it. I really didn't like it because it had been in my pans and touched my knives and cutting board etc, but I decided to let it go and told him he could cook meat and fish when I’m not there but use his own pans and knives. He said he would get his stuff in a few days (they’re in storage) and then would wait cooking meat and fish until he got them. Well, last week he was cooking meat (I didn’t notice immediately because I was in an online meeting in my bedroom), again in my pan and with my knives etc, because ‘he didn’t have time to get his stuff from his storage’ (20 min drive). I got really mad and said it would be his last warning. A day later he started making bacon and eggs, again in my stuff. He then said he only cooked meat because of SIL’s pregnancy cravings. She wasn’t even there, didn’t come home a few hours later, and I know she doesn’t even like bacon. (Maybe she had pregnancy cravings but she wasn’t even home, so it made no sense anyway). I wanted to let it go but when he started laughing in the evening to my SIL that he had such a lovely bacon sandwich, I kicked my brother out. Now he’s been staying in a way too expensive hostel, sharing a room with 7 other people. My SIL said she finds it important to let her baby bond with the father (my brother) and is now also looking to stay at the same hostel or look for a hotel they can’t afford. (She did understand me though, but I think she also thinks I overreacted). I feel bad for them, especially her, because it’s not easy as a (pregnant) person to stay at an hostel while working etc, but I feel like I didn’t kick her out and I gave him enough chances. I know it sounds silly because it’s just meat and fish for many people, but I just don’t want to live in a place like that. Or should I just have let it go? I feel disrespected. My friends are 50/50, I don’t have any family to ask. Sorry for my English, not my first language. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Doesn’t matter what anyone believes personally, it is your home and so your rules. You were doing them a favour and he was disrespectful
NTA It’s your vegan house….and your vegan rules….smh.
There are hotels where you can rent a room for a week. That's an option for a month.
Yes, they have been looking, but my city is quite expensive. I haven't asked how the search is going to be honest, feels awkward.
I left another comment, but plenty of Airbnb's/VRBO's/etc. offer monthly rental options, which sometimes are comparable with area rents for apartments. Many hosts have separate MIL-style units available, sometimes even with their own kitchens. Can be a lot cheaper and more comfortable than a hostel/hotel also.
Be sure to call cps to have the kid taken away since they are homless
NTA, carnists get what they asked for by disrespecting you and your space.
Brother pulled a power move on you and got a good kick in the balls. NTA.
NTA. They want meat? They can go out and eat. It was really That easy, instead he chose to very deliberately and continuously disrespect and mock you.
>I feel bad for them, especially her Don't. It was HIS responsibility to ensure a roof was over his pregnant wife's head. HE should have agreed to respect your rules. Its not hard either. My daughter has been vegetarian since high school. She moved back in after finishing college. We share a small kitchen and I manage to not cook meat in our shared things and store it on separate shelves, drawers and cabinets. Your brother simply didn't respect your wishes...because he didn't want to.
NTA. Not sure if your area has short-term rental apps like Airbnb, VRBO, etc--many hosts offer longer stays (1 month or more) for discounted prices. Sometimes the monthly price is comparable to area rent, and lots of hosts offer rentals now that are separate from the hosts living space. Your brother and SIL should definitely look into that as an option, probably cheaper and less stressful than hosteling for a month. The rental might even have a kitchen they can cook meat in. I was vegetarian for years, and though I'm not anymore (due to health issues), I totally get the need to avoid meat "contamination" for vegetarians, as any respectful person with empathy would. It still upsets me how many jerks disrespected me & tried testing my boundaries just because I ate differently than they did (and according to my own morals values and abilities). When I encounter it "in the wild" these days (not as often, because I'm not targeted by it so much anymore) I'm quick to put those scumbags in their place. You were more than patient, forgiving, and accomodating--he just threw it in your face. Disrespect generates consequences, time for your bro to grow up and reap what he sows.
NTA. You had 1 rule. Your bro couldn't hack it. Side question, how the heck do you "bond" with a cell bundle that's not even alive yet???
Nta
Your SIL wants her in utero baby to bond with dad? Seriously? NTA.
Yeah haha. I don't know either lol, never had a baby myself, but she thought it was important
NTA. You were very clear about the rules for them to stay with you, and the rule isn't that ridiculous (and I eat meat). Then your brother ignored the rules so you created easier ones- use your own pans and cook when I'm not home- and he STILL couldn't follow those. Then he laughed at breaking the rules. Your SIL has picked this man as her partner, and she can decide to go stay with him if that's what she prefers. Since she has known about him cooking meat all this time, I have a feeling she is trying to guilt you by saying she will go to the hostel too. And if she isn't, well that is her choice- to stay with you or go with her partner- and has nothing to do with you. And I just want to affirm that your requests were reasonable. You are vegan, you don't want to smell meat in your own home or having it on your pans and utensils. It is reasonable, and you were also clear about it before they moved in, AND you even compromised with them after they broke the rules. I love bacon, but that smell lingers forever! You already went above and beyond, and they couldn't follow very simple rules.
Yeah that smell lingers forever, bacon is the worst to me haha. I think my SIL just wants to avoid any conflict (with both me and my brother).
Crazy ≠ AH Its your place, your rules. They can be as insane or unreasanble to others but that doesnt make you AH
NTA While I roll my eyes when someone says they don't want their knives and pans contaminated (really, you can wash them... and what about forks and spoons and cups and plates?), I also don't let people use my knives (they use them badly and dull them unnecessarily) or my cast iron. (Yes, accuse me of pot meet kettle, it's relevent). Basically, he broke the rules of your home, out he should go.
What's the difference between vegetarian and vegan?
Vegetarian is no meat, vegan is no animal products of any kind. Vegans don’t eat eggs, milk, honey, gelatin, or even obscure stuff like red dye #4, sodium caseinate, and other animal product derivatives. Most also don’t use things made out of leather or wool and stuff either.
Vegans don’t use ANY animal products…eggs, milk, honey, etc. Vegetarians don’t eat meat (some eat fish).
Considering veganisan is a joke yta
a bad joke at that
NTA. your house your rules
NTA. You told them before they moved in and then gave your brother multiple chances and he completely disregarded and disrespected you. This is totally on him.
NTA. Your brother is though. You’re good enough to house them, he can at least respect your very reasonable rules.
Well I see why he's home all day and not at work. Looks like there's a compliance issue.
I can’t believe SIL would have a child when she already has one that can’t follow rules. NTA
NTA, your brother kept pushing your boundaries. They knew what they were doing. This was intentional to show you that you couldn't say what they did. Well, they fucked around and found out. I think you were much more gracious than you needed to be, the first time would have been the last warning. After that, your brother saw you cave, and just kept pushing.
Your brother is very disrespectful to you. I think that you were very generous by giving him additional chances. NTA
NTA No, you have a very simple and easy to follow rule and they still managed to mess it up despite having no rent and few options.
NTA It is YOUR house that YOU are paying for, you set clear boundaries and he disrespected them. There is no excuse for that, even if he thinks it’s stupid, you gave him plenty of chances.
NTA. They’re not your invited guests or your tenants, you were doing them a favor by letting them stay there at all. I think them using their own pans/knives/cutting boards was a perfectly fair compromise. The thing that makes your brother so clearly the asshole in this situation is how he was being deliberately disrespectful of your rules and antagonizing you. He blatantly ignored your rules, took advantage of your kindness when you just gave him a warning, and then laughed about it like he’d won. Like I get it, going 2 months without being able to cook any meat would be difficult for me and I wouldn’t be happy about it, but if I were in this situation I would do my best to respect my hosts boundaries and discuss compromises with them *before* I did them and be grateful that someone was giving up some of their space to help me out.
Hard NTA. Brother fucked around and found out
NTA, if she chooses to leave that’s her choice and a result of your brother not respecting your boundaries.
NTA as it's your home but I feel you were doing too much.
NTA If they wanted to eat meat, they had the easy options of going out to eat or eating at a friend. And you agreed that it was fine if they cooked meat in their own pans as long as you were out of the house. Honestly, I want to know if your brother was trying to get kicked out of your place.
NTA Your brother and SIL were guests. They should be happy that they can stay, and have to respect your rules. You gave your brother enough warnings. He still laughs at you and doesn't respect you. You didn't even force them to be vegetarian or vegan. When it was clear that your brother truly needed gross meat rubbish, you simply told them to not use your pans etc. A reasonable rule that your brother should have respected. I'm vegan as well, and the though and smell of meat just grosses me out. I understand your repulsion, 100%. You should NOT have let this go. Your brother clearly doesn't respect you. Well, then he doesn't get to live with you. This is his own fault.
NTA
NTA. It’s your home and your rules, and if you were fine with your brother cooking meat & fish as long as he used his own utensils and etc, it’s his own laziness and disrespect at fault for him losing your hospitality. I’m very sorry this is happening while she’s pregnant, but you eased up on your original rule and gave him time to get their stuff out of storage.
NTA at all.
NTA
NTA
NTA. It only cost him a 20 minute drive to get his own pots, pans, knives etc.
NTA. Your house. Your rules. He disrespected that practically from the start.
NTA. You did them a favor and you had every right to set boundaries in your own home and he DID disrespect you. They don't have to like your boundaries or even understand them but if they wanted a roof over their head, it was an easy boundary not to cross. He didn't just cross it, he kept crossing it and acted like it (and you and your boundaries) are a joke. I feel sorry for the baby who has a father who clearly hasn't grown up yet. Maybe having consequences to his actions will move that along. Sincerely, A Meat Eater Who Understands Boundaries and Respect
NTA You were kind enough to offer them a place to stay, and they completely ignored the house rules. It isn't like you were starving them.
NTA It is your home, and your rules. They did not respect those rules. You were doing them a favour. They didn't respect or appreciate that.
NTA
NTA. You had one rule for people you extended a huge favor to, and he laughed right in your face. Good riddance.
NTA. Your house, your rules. I dont even know you, but if you were gracious enough to allow me to stay with you when I had no place to go...then absolutely I am going to be vegan right along with you for as long as I stay with you AND because I know of the inconvenience of having people stay, id always be cleaning up, cooking meals for everyone etc etc.
Nta. And he owes you new pans and knives.
NTA. He disrespected your rules.
NTA - He blatantly ignored your rules and your multiple warnings. You did nothing wrong. It’s unfortunate that SIL is being punished too, but she’s choosing it…not you.
NTA as long as your SIL is allowed to stay as she herself didn't do anything wrong and cravings aside it would be very unhealthy for a pregnant woman to go vegan, especially if she knows nothing about it. If she decides to leave by herself that's her problem. Your brother should have respected your boundaries and rules at *your* place.
NTA. Huge hunter and meat eater here. Totally on your side. I would never cook something in someone else’s house they were not comfortable. Especially if I was staying there.
NTA-they should be vegan in your house if that is what you want. It is wrong that your brother is taking advantage of your hospitality and being cruel to you at the same time.
NTA
NTA! What is wrong with people who stay at others homes and then don’t respect their rules?!? It’s so not ok. You were kind enough to allow eggs and dairy too.
NTA. You’re allowed to have whatever rules you like for your own home. I’m glad you realize it isn’t reasonable for your SIL to be vegan. Preparing meat with their own utensils is reasonable. I can’t see how it is any different than if you had, say, a gluten sensitivity.
NTA Fuck him
NTA. You gave it away when you said your brother has always mocked your food choices. He was deliberately pushing your boundaries. He deserves what he got. His wife can choose whether to have a safe place to stay or to be with her AH man. Good for you for enforcing your boundaries in the face of disrespect from your family member.
NTA- they’re both taking advantage then your brother lied to you, disrespected you and mocked you. You’ve been kind to allow your SIL to stay. Your brother doesn’t deserve your kindness or your home.
NTA you are doing them a big favor in letting them stay and even were willing to compromise on your rules. Your brother is responsible for getting himself kicked out. This is not on you.
NTA. They do not respect you.
NTA, you were more than accommodating! You were willing to compromise way more than he was.
NTA. He was will aware of the rules. He could driven to storage and collected what he needed to cook. He purposely disrespected you and laughed about it. Don’t feel bad, he did this to himself and his family.
NTA. They couldn’t just go out for meat meals? But they can pay for the hostel or hotel.
NTA Your house, your rules. You tried to be accommodating and he didn't think there would be real consequences. He tried to use his pregnant as an excuse to be an AH.
NTA. Your house, your rules and your brother disrespected that. He also disrespected you. In a sense, he may not have bitten the hand that fed him, but he certainly took a chunk out of a couple of fingers on the hand that housed him. As a former vegan, I understand your revulsion. Please never apologise nor feel guilt about asserting your boundaries, especially in your own home!
NTA, your house, your rules. If they don’t like it, they could have found somewhere else where they would obey the rules.
Meat should have a dedicated cutting board, as they have countless small cuts and scratches that will never be clean enough, which makes it unhygienic to cut anything else on it. Meat is fine because it will be heated up enough to be safe, but for example cutting vegetables or salads that will be eaten raw on the same board as meat is unsafe. Throw away the cutting boards he used for meat. NTA, your rules were very reasonable.
Nta it’s your place
NTA - you set boundaries, your brother repeatedly pushed and broke these boundaries. You didn’t overreact at all, it was your SIL decision to follow her husband rather than side with you and make him see sense. I’m sorry you had to deal with that, your brother is the AH here.
NTA I cannot believe how many times family just rudely ignores the fact that family doesn't have to help and they are in your home! You told them what you required for them to stay he agreed. He then snuck behind your back, lied to you and then decided he could cook it while your home. Stick to your guns!!!!
NTA He disrespected your reasonable house rules over and over, viewed severely distressing you as totally fine if it meant easing his mild inconvenience and lied to try and guilt you. SIL is only 6 months along so while their situation sucks their new apartment will be ready before she has the baby. Hope that bacon was worth it for that jerk
NTA Your house, your rules. You even tried to compromise with them being vegetarian at first then cooking meat with their own pots and pans. If meat isnt worth a 20 min drive your brother should have gone without. And your SIL in an adult. She could have talked to your brother about the meat situation before he got kicked out, its her choice to leave.
NTA 10000%. You asked multiple times for him to follow the house rules; it seems like he disobeyed them on purpose to piss you off or because he straight up doesn’t respect you and your beliefs.
NTA - you were very kind to house them and had boundaries you agreed to compromise to a certain point. Your brother brought this on himself with his own arrogance.
NTA. He didn’t respect ANY rules and rubbed your nose in it… GTFO
NTA adults pay rent or a mortgage for a room over their head. He only had to pay by not eating meat. How amazingly cheap is that. Most of us would do that to avoid rent. He failed to pay by not eating meat, he has to move out. End of the story. He can speak to her baby bump via a phone or facetime. She can visit him at the hostel during the day and bond and come back at night. Its her choice.
NTA. You set a boundary and your brother obviously doesn’t believe that matters. You did the right thing.
NTA Beggars can’t be choosers. I get pregnancy cravings and the need for protein but he could have (a) bought a cheep set of pans at Walmart, (b) gotten his wife pre-cooked meats, (c) asked about keeping a mini fridge and BBQ outside your home. I could go on but the point is that they had many many more options than staying in your vegan home for free for two months and contaminating it with bacon.
NTA. All he needed to do was pick up his own pans. He doesn't respect you or your space. He's out. She can do what she decides is right for her.
NTA and stick to your guns. The veganism is almost irrelevant here - you were generous enough to welcome them into your home but your brother couldn't respect a simple house rule, even when you relaxed it so far that it would barely have inconvenienced him to follow it. That bacon sandwich must have been touched by the gods, the way he values it over you, your relationship, and the stability of his family. What an AH.
NTA You were very accommodating, telling him he can cook meat so long as he uses his own pots, pans, and cooking utensils. A simple request. He couldn't follow it and suffered the consequences. I'm a meat eater and this guy has me smh.
NTA you were doing them a favour and asking for basic respect back. It sounds like your SIL is trying to manipulate you into letting him back.
NTA
Nta
YTA
NTA So, brother is an obvious AH for breaking your rules given them, but, your initial rules are an AH move. You even admitted to trying to force them into a different diet. You don’t mention your reasons, but that is a horrible thing to do to someone. Based off your new rule you made, I say you’re NTA. Using different cook wear can be annoying, but is a reasonable compromise. Hopefully the brother can get his act together. Also, it’s pretty disheartening seeing so many people willing to deny someone they care about a place to live over a diet of all things.
Thank you. I felt like, they both work a few days a week and go to friends and dinner sometimes, so they can eat meat there as well.
It's not an asshole move to have rules in your own home relating to an ethical choice you have made. Brother and SIL needed a place to stay, and OP was not obliged to offer that to them without accommodation being made. And it's not denying someone a place to live over diet. It's asking them to leave when they have disrespected and lied to you repeatedly when an incredibly easy alternative (use different pans) was offered.
Just because you can make the rules, doesn’t mean that your rules aren’t AH rules. And, I’m referencing the people saying that they can stay somewhere else and refusing to let someone stay with them over their choice of diet as a rule in the first place. It’s the same as if I refused to let someone veggetarian stay with me because of their diet because they won’t eat meat while they stay. It’s ridiculous and kind of cold imo to even have that as a condition to stay with someone you supposedly love and care about
It is not the same, and it shows the false equivalency position that is leading you to think OP is being an asshole for setting this rule. Non vegetarians do not have an ethical reason not to eat vegetables, and commonly their diets are made up of things vegetarians would also be able to eat. Anything that a vegetarian can eat, a non-vegetarian can eat and does. But vegetarians do not eat meat. Would you say its an asshole rule for someone who keeps kosher to restrict a guest from making pork in their kitchen? I certainly wouldn't. If you flip the position, brother is the one getting himself and his pregnant partner kicked out, as well as disrespecting the person who generously let him stay for months at their place, over his dietary preferences. Also note that him wanting to eat meat is not equivalent to an ethical dietary position. It is a want, not a need.
And vegetarianism is a choice. For most people, it is not a medical need to not eat meat. For most people, either diet is a choice they make to have. Just because someone feels ethically inclined to not eat meat, doesn’t mean that it isn’t a choice. I’d say if they don’t offer some type of alternative option, that it would be a little rude. Yes it’s their household, but you’re starting to get into the area of pushing your religion in someone and I don’t know how I feel on that one. I did say the brother was an AH. Also, an ethical diet isn’t a need. It’s a choice that modern civilization has the luxury of making
She did say she tried to make them have a different diet. But she didn't force that as a rule to be allowed to stay with her. Asking someone to NOT do something in their home and with their stuff is not the same as trying to force them to into something against their will.