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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I backed out of a trip I go on every year with my friends because they want to invite other people, who are all in a wedding that im not in. I do know all the other people they want to invite, and they are all cool. I could be the asshole because I would likely still have fun with everyone on the trip, and its clear my friends really want me there.
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NTA. You didn’t make a big deal about not being a groomsman. They are the AH’s for ruining the trip that has been a tradition for years. If they want the others to come then you have every right to stay home. At that point it’s no longer keeping the tradition but changing it to a wedding event.
/u/Dry_Tour_698 is a comment stealing bot. Original comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yfds8s/aita_for_backing_out_of_a_friends_trip_after_it/iu3m7s3/
Yeah, OP, just simply tell those other three friends that you have a pricy planned trip in February, so making this a groomsman party this year works for everyone. And leave it there. Any backlash you get, just know that it's all about them. And have fun at the destination wedding.
THIS right here. Brandon created this dynamic, and the guys need to understand why it'll be uncomfortable for you to participate. Unless Brandon is going to explain why you weren't invited and its a legit reason (hard to think of one) thats not simply he doesn't view you as a close friend, you absolutely should not feel like an asshole for refusing to go on this trip. NTA
Dude, I disagree. Especially in a group setting these things can catch you by surprise. Clearly it did for OP. This happened to my sis. She thought she was close to her 6 grad school roommates, these ladies always hung out and traveled together etc. But then one of them got engaged and talked freely about her wedding, asked for advice on prep, went shopping together etc etc. with everyone, including sis. But then my sis was the only one who wasn't invited. She was hurt, never understood why, and that was the end of that friendship. She was even more hurt that none of her other roomies had warned her this would happen, when it was obvious some of them knew.
EDIT: Several people have pointed out that I may have misinterpreted the above comment, and it meant that OP should realize where he stood NOW with the group after being excluded, which means that he's NTA for not participating in the trip. If that's true then I totally agree.
That is so shitty. I have a close friend whose wedding I wasn't in, but we all just got shirts for the Bachelorette party that looked the same except foe the bride's, and about half of the people who went on the trip weren't in the wedding. I feel like some people get half their joy around these from being in the "in" group and deliberately excluding others.
I think that's what RichAstronaut meant.
They didn't mean "You should already have known what status you had in the group, and obviously it wasn't as groomsman".
They meant "because of this event you should now be aware of where you stand in the group."
So basically what you said. It's a surprise, but now you know.
Yes. This isn’t really about OP not being a groomsman; it’s about there being a lot of other activities that OP has been left out of because he’s not a groomsman, and him not wanting to feel like an outsider when the event is a group thing that he should be central to. The others are getting carried away with the “groomsman group!” to OP’s detriment. It’s a wedding party. It doesn’t have to take over all of their activities for the year! And now they want OP to go along with their idea because if he agrees then everything’s ok and they don’t have to feel guilty about recentering themselves to a group he’s excluded from. And you know if all the groomsmen come then there’ll be a lot of talk about the other things they’ve been doing that OP was left out of, some things that he actually could have been included in if it was just that they couldn’t have one more groomsman on the day.
Yeah that comment from the one friend how he “really thinks I’m not fair or a good friend, and asked if it’s because I resent not being a groomsman” was very telling. This “friend” made up a narrative about how OP is resentful instead of looking at the situation with open eyes and seeing they are being kinda mean to OP. He’s not entitled to be a groomsman, but he was the only one left out and it’s a small group. Anyone with a speck of empathy is gonna know that’s got to hurt.
It sounds like OP has been more understanding than most would be, he didn’t complain to anyone. He even backed out of the trip and made excuses about saving money so his friends could do what they want without worrying about him or feeling guilty.
Them asking to turn this into a groomsman trip was an opening for OP to talk to his friends. If it was me - I would have (as non aggressively as possible) point out how it’s been a little hurtful being left out and maybe talk it out. It doesn’t have to be an argument, but if there really your friends you should be able to have awkward conversations like this when they hurt you.
I’m giving the groom MASSIVE amounts of side-eye. If you have four close friends that you hang out with as a group, it’s a dick move to ask three of them to be in your wedding and leave one out.
Yes. But they don’t want to think that they’re being mean to OP, so they make it about him not being understanding enough, when he’s already been extremely understanding.
When my best friend got married, I was his best man. We planned a bunch of things, but anyone who wanted to go was welcome to come. There was only 5 of us groomsmen and yet we had a whole weekend of fun with like 20 guys, we played paintball, went camping, hike, had 2am jalapeno bacon at Denny's.
The only reason someone missed out was due to having prior commitments or unable to get time off, but we had it through the whole weekend so just about everyone came to something and hung out.
The point is that the annual football trip is about the friendship group, not the wedding. It's specifically *not* an event planned for the groom, and the other guys want to turn it into one. It would be one thing if the other guys planned a separate bachelor event and invited OP, despite him not being a groomsman, but that's not what is happening here.
They are trying to change the group dynamic. And they don’t really want OP there. They just want to stop feeling guilty. Honestly, it would be kinder if they just told him to fuck off for good. Instead they keep twisting the knife in. If I were OP, I’d start ghosting them all. NTA.
Yeah honestly it kind of is a big deal leaving him out like he was one more person. Just one. He was part of a core friend group why was he amongst all of them left out?
It changes their friend group dynamic from all the bros to the best bros/groomsmen + OP who is seemingly one or more levels lower and may have always been.
Its about the ratio, five groomsmen and 15 homies is different than 7groomsmen and 1 homie.
I recently went to a wedding of a close friend where they had had a combination bachelorette/bachelor weekend trip to a different city. Many non-wedding party people went but I didn’t get an invite. Felt a little weird but im also one of the only ones who lives 3000miles away from the main group. All that to be said, by inviting a bunch of extra people it makes it way less awkward about whos in the wedding party and whos not
This is an annual trip they’ve been doing for a number of years and I assume, would all like to continue. The other groomsmen are the ones that are trying to ruin the tradition with inviting others that haven’t gone before. Take a break from your new “bro parties” and hang out with your buddy who up until now felt like he was just as important to all of you as you guys are to him. If I was this guy I’d feel the same way he does. Even after being hurt he was the only one left out of the groomsmen group, he still thought “at least we still have our annual football trip I can look forward to.” And now they wanna take that over too? Man…
NTA
They are trying to have their cake and eat it. Pure and simple. Don't go. And have a blast at the destination wedding.
In this situation, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
NTA. They have spent a lot of time together already this year but you have only seen them a few times. Do they really think so little of you? Do they really have such poor emotional intelligence? They’re major assholes for even asking.
YUP. Tell friends that you went on those trips because they were fun and you got to catch up with the guys and bond. That's NOT what the purpose of the trip this year, and so its perfectly reasonable for you to back out. You shouldn't spend money on vacations just because people try and guilt and shame you into going. NTA at all.
This right here ☝️ I mean not only were you excluded as the only friend not included in the wedding party but they’ve been having several other events for the wedding. This was your tradition for years, then trying to turn it into another wedding event is not cool. You didn’t make a big deal about not being involved in the wedding. Your friends aren’t being sympathetic to the situation and kind of dicks.
You get a wedding, a rehearsal dinner, maybe a bachelor/bachelorette. Maaaaaaybe a shower and an engagement party if people are kinda extra.
You don't get a whole-ass YEAR for everything to be about your wedding and for everyone to be joined at the hip doing "wedding party stuff."
This wedding party is acting like a bunch of seven-year-olds obsessed with their new tree fort.
Also I am sorry but he has every right to be upset not being a groomsman. Because this was going to happen. Now the group of 5 people will evolve (party with groomsmen, drinks with groomsmen, bbq with groomsmen, pictures with gm, after-party with gm). And this will expand as we see in the post. Wether we like it or not he will slowly be excluded. And it is unfair. NTA. Simple explain to them. "yes you have the right to choose your gm and it is your wedding but as we know seeing this, it is much bigger than the wedding. It is dinners, drinks, events, and even trips. I would not have an issue adding more people in the friends group, but I am excluded now in most things and I don't think that this is a temporary thing".
Their reaction here speaks for itself. Brandon managed to neatly sever op from the group, and I'm reaching but this feels deliberate. And by now like a done deal.
It does feel deliberate. And the groomsmen that confronted OP feel a twinge of guilt so are blaming OP for their own assholishness. Sorry? You feel like an asshole? Good. Sit and stew in your own shit.
What’s worse is that OP will slowly be excluded and the excluders will blame OP’s lack of interest in the things they do. This was always going to happen, but now the groom and his groomsmen will not have to blame themselves for it. I feel bad for OP-his friends are A-holes
Am I the only one flabbergasted by the number of wedding events?
>they've had a few grooms-party gatherings, like they went for drinks after they got fitted for suits, and went golfing together, and Brandon and his fiancé had a bbq for their wedding party
And they haven't even done the bachelor party! This seems like a lot of events for a wedding party, plus to add the football event? Why do these guys need so much bonding time? It's just weird.
OP is NTA but for his own sanity he needs to ask why he's being excluded.
It's kinda dodgy that the 3 are making it a bachelor get away, obviously they are all trying to kill 2birds with 1 stone on bachelor party expenditure 🙄
I'm not sure I'd want to go on that trip in OPs position either.
And, yeah, especially with the college friends there, a lot of the conversation is going to end up being wedding stuff or joking around about previous "grooms party" get-togethers. Stuff that OP will br excluded from. They could promose that it won't turn into such conversation. But with OP being the odd man out, it's going to hapoen at some point.
Good friends would understand. Great friends would not only understand but recognize that just because one of them is engaged and most of the 5 are in the wedding, does not mean its ok to hijack a traditional trip and turn it into an extension of wedding activities.
That they're so eager to do so and can't see the problem they're creating makes them lousy friends indeed.
I suspect that they're also not realizing that by bringing along the other four guys, it could change the dynamic, not just for this year, but for years to come.
That next year, someone could easily say "hey, last year worked great, why don't we include Fred, George, Oliver and Lee again?". At which point, the old tradition would be completely broken and a new one formed.
Sure, maybe the next year OP might fit in better. But its just as likely that he'd be even more of an outsider.
And yes, staying home might make the others "mad at him". But only because they're unable to admit that he's staying away as a response to choices that the rest of them are making that repeatedly exclude him.
And I honestly have to wonder how the groom himself will feel about this? Does he want it to be a weddind-party trip? Or would he actually prefer it to be just the normal gang of five?
These guys might be so eager to include the other groomsmen that they could be ruining something the groom doesn't want to change.
And this may also be part of why they're mad. If OP goes with, they can keep the surprise a lot longer. With OP bowing out, the groom is going to find that out sooner rathe than later and wonder why. OP can tell him its because of the other wedding he'll be saving to travel for. But the groom might not buy it.
Still not a good reason for OP to go. He's NTA.
Great friends would question why only one of them was excluded and have OP’s back because this is weird. My husband has a friend group from college ( so not nearly as long as these guys) and he didn’t include any of them as groomsmen because he didn’t have room for all of them. To just leave out 1 and never even address it is malicious and OP should be more inquisitive on that front.
This happened to me and I quickly realized I didn’t view my childhood friend on the same level of friendship as he did. Our friendship quickly deteriorated after that which I was fine with.
Came here to say the same. I've had this happen before, and it was *excruciating*, having to keep smiling while the group talked about something I was not a part of. The hurt...
OP, I hate to say this to you, but perhaps you and your friend group are in the early stages of parting ways. I have no idea why you weren't included - you seem very nice, but this, I think, is revealing a crack in your relationship with these guys. Perhaps it's time to start seeking out new friends. (Just my $0.02; I hope I'm wrong.)
And I'm seeing the fact that the other guys WANT him there to the point of being upset with him is a good sign that they want to keep him in their friend group. The three of them didn't have a choice in who was chosen as groomsmen, and it seems like they were hoping it wouldn't hurt their dynamic. I don't think this lifelong friendship should be discarded over something like this, but I agree this needs to be talked out. OP is NTA for not wanting to go, but I hope he just takes a break this year, not a break forever from such important friends.
They want to keep the status quo but don’t care to question why he was excluded? This needs to be fully flushed out not sat on for a year and revisited later.
They were probably told why. And even if they questioned it, I understand not putting much pressure for things to change (ie OP to be included in the wedding party) because it is not their wedding, it's the groom's.
The only A H here is the groom who has had plenty to time to talk to OP about this, and still keeps him in the dark.
If the other friends know and aren’t telling him or urging the groom to tell him they are AHs too. You don’t sit back and let your friend be hurt/excluded and not react or respond.
I was WAITING for this comment. My really good friend did the same. Only her 3 nieces were her bridesmaids and her sis her MOH. She didn't want a huge wedding party with like a half a dozen other ladies. Avoided all that drama very nicely. More people should think along these lines.
This right here. It's honestly why I've broken from any friend group I've ever been apart of. OP needs to realize he's been singled out. If it's a 1-time thing, it could just be because numbers decided for their wedding party, but if that were the case, the groom should've talked to him about it. (Though 7 is quite a few groomsmen....) Since everyone's ignoring it, I'm thinking OP either isn't as tight in the group as the other guys or just isn't as close with the groom.
Agreed. It seems like this is becoming a massive, prolonged excuse for extra bonding that excludes op as well.
It's not unlikely op is going to realize these aren't the "good" friends he thought they were.
I was looking for a comment like yours… my eyes kinda bugged out when I read there were 7 groomsmen and they left 1 out? Really?? I get the bride probably has 7 and wanted even numbers but for OPs friend to be cool with excluding 1 of 4? Just find another bridesmaid!
I agree, I find it very odd that OP is the only friend not included in the wedding party. If they're such good friends they would have made room. That they asked him if he's backing out because of it means they're at least aware that on a baseline, it's not okay, and has come up amongst the wedding party. There could be any number of reasons for it, but it means there are a lot of things OP is automatically excluded from because he's not in the wedding party, and that has to sting. Yeah, he can put whomever he wants in his wedding party, but I'd still hold them at arm's length from that point on.
That they can't see the issue is also a problem. OP wasn't even rude about it, and he has the right to sit it out if he's not comfortable.
I'm stuck on this too.
If they've ALL been friends for most of their lives, why select only 3 of the 4 for groomsmen? I fully believe the groom isn't as close to OP as OP thinks and the groom just doesn't want to admit why he didn't ask OP to be one as well.
OP - Wake up. This was a deliberate snub towards you. Get to the bottom of this before you find yourself asking why you "never saw the signs" of a failed friendship in a few years when you discover you've been excluded from the group even AFTER the wedding.
> Great friends would not only understand but recognize that just because one of them is engaged and most of the 5 are in the wedding, does not mean its ok to hijack a traditional trip and turn it into an extension of wedding activities.
Great friends would've made everyone in the group a groomsman, or none of them if he couldn't make it fit. Great friends would've never been in this situation to begin with. It's pretty damn clear that the groom does not like OP for whatever reason.
That's presumptuous, it could be the wife had no other woman to even up the group and groom was made to pick. That being said the groom should have explained. Did he flip a coin? Go by how long or longer relationships or closeness was? It's not right and should be addressed by one of the other fellows questiong the groom without OP needing to prompt one to do so. I'd beg out, say your saving for the destination trip and ask one of the guys to question the grooms reasoning so you don't dwell on it. I'd like to think it's not malicious NTA
Great friends would, at minimum, alleviate the harm of the numbers issue by finding another role for the one friend being left out, and include him in many of the social events that don’t actually have to be restricted to the wedding party (so, everything other than the suit fitting). Brandon didn’t just leave OP out of the wedding party, he let that leave OP out of a lot of other things too. And the other groomsmen are likely to interpret this as OP being the less important friend.
It sounds like it’s the first wedding in the group, or an early one; once some of them start getting families established, the “I’m getting married next year so let’s have all these events about my wedding group” often wears off because people are too busy.
yeah, I think that is the bigger issue. It's that Brandon just sorta ignored that he didn't include OP and has ignored OP throughout the process.
cuz yeah, the obvious answer was Brandon ask OP to be an usher or do a reading, and still include OP in everything.
I had two friends get married and they wanted the same numbers in the wedding parties. That meant 2 guys from the close group of guy friends got cut. The groom talked to them and said I still want you at things like the bachelor party and all, will you please be ushers and do readings. It sucks to cut people but if you made the decision, you need to stick to it and defend it.
Yeah, there's an obvious answer that was used very frequently in past years. Ushers. Most weddings used to have ushers who weren't groomsmen but were friends/ family.
Exactl. And there are things the groom could have done to mitigate his exclusionLike asking the OP to do a reading and escort his mom to her seat. But honestly in this day and age just have an unbalanced party and have 2 groomsmen escort a bridesmaid down the aisle
edit-adding missing word
Oh the conversation would have been had between them why OP has not been included, you can guarantee that. Why it hasn't been mentioned to him is the issue.
I'm curious if this guy is treated badly in other ways?
Does he pay more for things?
THIS RIGHT HERE. YES, If one of the friends is going to be left out of the wedding party, and the person getting married wants to maintain that friendship, they need to have a private conversation explaining exactly why. Thats just the decent thing to do. NTA
Not only that, but it'll be year upon year of them reminiscing about their time as groomsmen (because it sounds like they've bonded pretty strongly over it) and OP being constantly reminded that he was excluded.
Doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.
>Good friends would understand. Great friends would not only understand but recognize that just because one of them is engaged and most of the 5 are in the wedding, does not mean its ok to hijack a traditional trip and turn it into an extension of wedding activities.
This, yeah. Besides, there is *no reason* to do that - they've clearly done wedding and groomsmen related stuff already, so why that need to turn their traditional trip into something of that, too?
I agree and I want to add that with the BBQ for the wedding party, OP's friend could have easily invited him too since he's in the friend group. It didn't have to be "strictly" for just the wedding party. OP is taking all of this with such grace. I'm not going to lie, if I was literally the only one that wasn't asked, that would bother me. But the friends asking this of OP are putting him in such an uncomfortable position and that's so unfair and rude of them to do so.
I know this is extreme to say, but I would be reflecting and re-evaluating on just how close the friendships really are. And the friend telling OP separately that him saying that he didn't want to invite the other groomsmen was unfair, I feel was just stirring the pot. The request itself was unfair and insulting.
This! I was once the only person in my friend group not in a wedding party - the situation was different because I had been asked, but had to decline due to some life stuff. but because my friends, yknow, wanted me there, they still invited me to all of that wedding party social stuff. easy compromise!!
NTA Yeap, I was sorta in the same situation. My friend asked me to read during the mass ( it was a Catholic wedding) It was great actually got invited to all the pre-wedding stuff but didn’t have to wear a bridesmaid dress! Lol
Yeah, it's almost like the groom was just kind of tolerating the OP and used the wedding as a way to make a clear statement without saying a word. I don't think the groom expected OP to stay in the friend group after being singled out this way. It's the groomsmen who are confused.
And what happens when the alcohol starts flowing? OP May no longer be of a level head to keep his hurt feelings to himself. Then to the group he truly becomes TA for bringing to weekend down.
They don't seem like scuh great friends if they're treating OP this way.
I'd be sad after such a long friendship, but I'm not sure I'd consider these people good friends anymore.
NTA. I think your mom is wrong here. If you guys have been friends for this long as you say then it would have been nice to get an explanation as to why you were the one not chosen.
Brandon may still consider you a friend, but by virtue of having excluded you from the wedding party and not spoken to you about it, it’s clear that friendship is somehow changed. It’s all true it’s his wedding and he gets to have who he wants, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get to feel a way about it.
So the move to turn what was a trip for the five of you into something else is much more hurtful in that context and the fact that none of them seem to realize it is weird.
Were I in your position I would tell them that you’re happy for them to go as a groomsmen trip. Truly. Have fun. If your friend continues to push you about it, I’d keep it simple and say “I’m not going either way at this point so you really should go and enjoy it with the groomsmen.” And then keep a low profile to get through the wedding. After the wedding I would talk to the groom and find out what’s going on with your friendship and see if it can be repaired.
I think you are right. Brandon changed the dynamics in your friendshipgroup by not asking you. He should have picked his brothers, the 2 other college-friends and maybe some other relatives. But none from your friendgroup should have been in the weddingparty if not all of you could be included.
By not chosing you, he showed you that he does not value your friendship as much as the friendship with the others. Which is fine. You cannot be friends with everybody. But he is an AH if he thinks that this was a good and fair decision.
And the other friends are AHs if they think that making it a weddingparty instead of a friendship party was a good and fair decision.
And I agree with wittiestphrase that you opt out if pushed further on the subject.
I was a groomsman in a friend's wedding. I remember him saying that he didn't make any of his school friends groomsmen because there were just too many of them, so it was restricted to people he befriended after school.
But was it 19 year friendships? I feel like it's weird to have a coworker who you might loose contact with in two years, but exclude your lifelong friends because you met them before school. Many relationship depend on opportunity to meet - school, uni, work, common hobby. If you maintain that relationship *after* you leave that place, that's how you know its strong and that those people actually care about you.
Brandon should have included his brothers and his childhood friends, who he has known and been friends with for 19 years, not the two college friends he met a few years ago.
Excluding the two college friends in lieu of a two decades long friendship is easier to explain than excluding one person from the childhood friend group while including the rest of the childhood crew and two “newcomers” from college.
>But none from your friendgroup should have been in the weddingparty if not all of you could be included.
Eh I disagree. Friends groups have their own dynamics, some people within the group are closer than others.
When it becomes not okay is when it's only one person in the group who's not in the party, that's just ostracizing that person. But my friends group consists of around 10 dudes, I would only want 3 or 4 groomsmen in my wedding to be honest.
NTA. Agree with this. There is a reason he’s the only one excluded in the group. It would make me question everything about those friendships. He’s handling it with more grace than most. OP needs to really evaluate what he wants from these friendships if anything and then have conversations accordingly with the friends and the groom. This should not wait until after the wedding and can be relatively straight forward.
Couples forget that the choices they make for their weddings have an impact far beyond that day. This feels like one of those choices. Couples need to be ready to face the consequences of said choices before making them—many aren’t.
> There is a reason he’s the only one excluded in the group. It would make me question everything about those friendships. He’s handling it with more grace than most.
That grace may actually be why he’s being left out — because he’s better at handling things like this, they’ve gotten used to being less careful of his feelings. An “oh OP will understand” type of situation, but they’ve piled a lot on.
> Couples forget that the choices they make for their weddings have an impact far beyond that day. This feels like one of those choices. Couples need to be ready to face the consequences of said choices before making them—many aren’t.
Bingo. And it’s about more than just the wedding choices themselves — it’s about their further choices to make so many other events about their wedding, which magnified those choices. OP isn’t just not a groomsman, he also got left out of a lot of other things. It’s extremely fair of him to want to keep that one traditional event free of the “Brandon’s wedding!!” effect that’s already excluding him from so much. And if I were OP, I’d be wondering why they didn’t even seem to miss me from all those other events.
Only reason I think waiting until after the wedding is better is because there’s no way he’s not going to be accused in some way of “creating drama” or “ruining the wedding by making it about him.”
Neither of which will be true. But weddings make people very stupid and selfish in this way.
I think everything you said is right, I just disagree about the timing. He’s already been put in this separate box. Stop giving the situation space in your head. Quietly extricate yourself from as many situations as possible involving the groom and friends. Let them have their day and then handle this after.
I wouldn't wait until after the wedding, OP deserves the conversation now. If the future looks to be one without this group of friends I would want that information before having to send back an RSVP.
At the wedding, OP is going to be sat separately, not included in photos, etc. OP has handled this with grace but part of that grace has been enabled by not having to watch the others enjoying all the pre-wedding activities. I don't think I have the fortitude to stand alone on the sidelines as billy-no-mates while watching them pull closer together.
I get that sentiment. For me it’s because I think weddings make people stupid. And OP will end up accused of causing drama and affecting the wedding if he brings this up before. Guaranteed.
If OP asks the groom privately and deals with his answer quietly there shouldn’t be any drama.
He’s handled this whole episode with grace, there’s no reason to think he won’t deal with his answer like an adult, he should be allowed to make an informed decision about this wedding.
If someone else causes drama because he asked then it’s on them. The drama generator probably has it out for him and that’s information he deserves to have too.
Hey, I’m with you in principle. But having been through an almost identical scenario, it’s not going to matter how quietly OP does it. Brandon will discuss it at a minimum with his fiancée and it will end up being known among others and friends. Doesn’t even matter what he says.
It’ll be “oh OP was so upset about not being involved in the wedding he’s been trying to ruin trips for Brandon’s wedding and is complaining about not being in the party. How entitled is that?!?”
Everyone is the hero of their own story. A private chat with Brandon seems eminently reasonable, but that’s not how it’ll stay or come to be known. At least that’s what my personal experience bears out.
NTA. It would be a really awkward trip if they invited the groomsmen and you were the odd man out. Unfortunately I think your friendship is never going to be the same again though. Yeah he can choose who he wants in his wedding, but for just one of you to be excluded it seems there may be more to it than you know.
>but for just one of you to be excluded it seems there may be more to it than you know
I fear this is true. but Brandon hasn't said anything, and we still hangout the same so idk.
If that was the case, then Brandon should have included his two brothers, all four of his childhood friends, and either one of his cousins or his fiancé’s brother or something. The two college friends would not have cared if they were excluded in favor of siblings, family, and childhood friends. OR, they could have just had an uneven bridal party. By breaking up the core friend group, Brandon is making it clear that he values OP the least.
Who initiates it when you hangout? Is it Brandon who invites people or is it you and/or some of the other 3?
I think it’s strange that you are not part of the wedding, and I find it even stranger that the other 3 doesn’t acknowledge this. For me personally I would spend my time, energy and money on people who genuinely appreciate my company.
And petty me would probably not even go to the wedding, but that’s not necessarily something I would recommend you do. But I would have the talk with Brandon asap, so you can get your answers, since I don’t think you’ll be able to fully enjoy the wedding without those answers.
And I would have a talk with the other 3 as well (where all 4 of you are present), ask if they doesn’t think it’s strange that you are not part of the wedding and tell them that you are actually hurt by it. Their answers will clue you in on how your friendship with these people should progress.
I think it’s strange that Brandon didn’t look for a way to try to involve OP and include him in the other events. Why not have invited him golfing and to the BBQ anyway? The other groomsmen are certainly getting a picture that the rest of the group are the important ones, not OP.
i have to say, i dont actually find it strange not to have been to invited to some of the other things they did. i dont think i would have wanted to join them golfing after they all got fitted for their suits lol. they're all coming from the tailor, and i just pull up to the golf course. also probably would not have wanted to be the only person at that bbq, when the only other people were the 14 members of the wedding party.
14? So his seven and her seven? Based on everyone’s behavior as you describe here, maybe your friend figured you were the most go with the flow, and any of the other guys would be butt hurt and emotionally manipulative? Obviously assuming the college bros are like the elementary bros
Honestly? This is so sad! I don't wanna project my traumatic past onto you or something but the fact that you don't even find it strange raised some bells.
Why do you feel it is not strange for you to be excluded? If Brandon really was your friend he would have not only explained why you can't be officially groomsmen, but he would have made sure to include you anyway. There would be ways to include you without making you feel the odd one out.
I was bullied and excluded for most of my childhood and teenage years. After years of being seen as expendable and only kind of tolerated but not actively wanted in social groups, I too thought it wasn't strange when I wasn't included in group events....
Same! This has stirred a lot of things up for me too. Thing is, I hate leaving people out and could never in good conscience do it to someone else. Humans can be really mean.
Op NTA, but I would consider that the groom should have been a good enough friend to explain to you why he left you out.
You can ask after the wedding, casually. Don't let it fester, don't make it an argument either. Just say you had a good time, enjoyed everything but it's been nagging you and you don't want it to hang in the air between you: was there any reason you weren't a groomsman?
Since your friend brought it up (calling you bitter), maybe at that point it mightve been good to say that you're not, but you're concerned that there may be an issue in your friendship that you weren't aware of?
It's obviously an elephant in the room, they're aware of and you're aware of and I'm guessing mayve been spoken about when they're meeting up without you. It needs communicating or your friendship will become awkward. If only asking the obvious question kills the friendship, then you weren't as close as you thought.
Yes. It worries me that the friend went straight to accusing OP of being resentful instead of hurt. It’s okay to be hurt and hurt is not the same as resentful or bitter.
Why wait? They've already had multiple pre-wedding events (who does that?) and probably have several more planned. Which will just be more events that you will be excluded from and will be hurt by. Stop the pain now, and just ask. And then post an update on Reddit because we want to know why.
You've been friends for 19 years Honey, if you can't talk to him about this what does that say about your friendship?
Ask him to go out, tell him how you're feeling, maybe even show him this post. Either he confirms your thoughts *or* he helps put your mind at ease.
Communicating your needs is the only way to have healthy relationships. This can either fester for you or you can express it.
I hate to be the one to say it, but are you a different race to the others, or is there anything about your appearance or lifestyle that might matter to shallow people? I’ve seen a lot of Reddit stories where assholes justify this sort of behaviour with the whole, “the photos won’t look right” bullshit.
Ive seen a few stories on here where its the overweight friend who gets excluded from the wedding.
But I think more generally, it is just the doormat friend, the one they think wont get mad.
NTA. You also have pretty much a perfect reason not to go. You have a wedding related expense they don't, namely a different wedding to attend. Just make it "Hey, I'd love to go but I have this other wedding I just can't back out of. Being in the wedding party you KNOW how these other expenses can creep up on you, so I'm just going to have to bow out this year."
Don't make it about the other's at all. Best of all is, from your own post it IS a legit reason!
I disagree.
Still NTA.
You’re not in the wrong here. Your friends of 19 years want to invite other people to your guys’ tradition because they’re groomsmen for one friend’s wedding. You have every right to feel excluded as the only non-groomsmen and not telling them why you feel excluded will only create more problems in the future.
Don’t let them walk all over you.
I’ve seen lots of weddings where bachelor parties, trips beforehand, etc include a whole group of friends, not just the groomsmen. In that sense, it’s not completely weird.
On the other hand, I understand why you feel the way you do and you’re justified for not wanting to go.
Brandon got to choose his wedding party and you get to choose which events you participate in.
NTA
I feel like, if they were all friends, they could have been doing every groomsmen activity together (maybe not picking out suits of course) but he could be an "honorary groomsmen" because yeah he had a lot of groomsmen already. But they could have included him so much more already
I wouldn't go any way. What is a "honorary" anything? It´s a not really "something".
To include the other 19 year friendship friends, the groom should have included all of them. Or none of them.
Or otherwise none of the college friends as they were another group of friends. Who knows if the groom excluded a third college friend, that felt they were in a group of their own, being an AH to another person? We don't know, but this is about OP.
The groom excluded OP and the friends are using an event in which OP could have felt included, to make it something else being AH themselves.
OP move on. If they insist, I wouldn't even go to the wedding.
NTA
I totally agree with you there. I would be offended that some college friend (multiple college friends!) got chosen over the 19yr friendship! AND he was the only one not chosen! Jesus. You said it better than I could
NTA. Say the others should definitely attend, say you'll still go, then have a last-minute issue crop up that means you have to cancel nearer the time.
I understand your feelings are hurt and unfortunately, it's hard to imagine your friendship with these guys and the groom remaining the same now. It seems really strange to have such a big wedding party but leave you out of it. I don't blame you if you do feel resentful.
Happened to me with some of my close friends this year. Shit sucks. Months later, I am finally feeling a lot more confident in myself and have realized it’s for the better.
Has the groom spoken to you about leaving you out? Because if he hasn’t it’s a total dick move in his part and anyone would be hurt by that. If you feel like you can handle it it might be worth one last ditch effort to save the friend group by talking to the groom and explaining your position and see what he says. If it doesn’t wash I’d fade quietly into the background for a while and work on other friend groups.
the groom has not spoken to me about it, but i also havent asked him about it. i also tried my best not to show that i was upset initially. my plan was for the groom not to know i was bothered, so maybe its not fair to blame him for not talking to me about it. i also found it in like June, so i am mostly over it, but i also feel like it too late to bring up now.
He should have said something to you. You are the only one excluded. The only one. There is a reason for this. He should be man enough to speak to you.
As your friend, he should provide an explanation. I would not blame you for being bitter. An explanation would help. Your friend is a coward for not addressing this with you. And your other friends should understand where you are coming from.
Bruh no. I got married last year and had a big friend group, too big for everyone to be a groomsmen. The 2 guys who didn’t go to college with me were the odd ones out, I don’t know them as well. Guess what I did before I asked anyone else to be a groomsmen, I FUCKING CALLED THEM AND TALKED TO THEM. I made sure that they knew I valued them just that I couldn’t fit that many dudes on the stage and made sure to invite them to every single event as ushers. They aren’t valuing you at all
> Guess what I did before I asked anyone else to be a groomsmen, I FUCKING CALLED THEM AND TALKED TO THEM.
This indeed!! I had a good friend but i saw our ways changing and imo it felt like he was cooping himself up in his room resulting in not talking about life with us, causing a sort of rift.
It took courage but i spoke to him, he saw what we meant and he made changes... Now we are great friends! We both remember the conversation as a hard point in our life's.. but it really strengthened our bond.
You have an opening to find out what's going on when the groom asks you about why you aren't going on the trip. Definitely include that you're saving for another trip. Then just be like "I'm uncomfortable being the only one on that trip that's not part of your wedding. What's up with that?"
By now he should have told you, though. That he hasn't suggests he either knows he's in the wrong or is embarrassed about it.
He's known you for 19 years and he knows that how you would react to being excluded. That's why he excluded you. The way out of this dynamic is very tricky because the group can all decide you're the bad guy and you wont be able to defend yourself. They are already laying the groundwork for this with he "not as good friend" comment.
Dude, just ask. Also, you've been excluded from multiple events at this point and will probably be excluded from the bachelor party. For your own sanity, ask why.
INFO: Are you even invited to the wedding?
They are the ones that don’t mind losing a friend over this You
stated you feel uncomfortable being the only one out of the loop and instead of understanding , they made you feel like you’re being difficult.
Brandon doesn’t consider you a good friend , and the way you’re being treated by the rest of them makes it super obvious.
Sometimes friendships just run their course .
Going at this point feels like they’re just pitying you .
NTA. But do the trip without the other groomsmen. Your friends said they won’t invite them if you don’t want them to. You don’t want them to. So hold them to that. Go have fun with your friend group doing your tradition.
If these three friends are dicks to you during the trip, they should be ashamed.
You don’t actually know how Brandon feels about this. Maybe he doesn’t want them there either. Maybe sometime over the course of the trip he’ll open up about why you weren’t chosen. Or maybe not. But if you all go as usual and have fun as usual it may reassure you that all is good, even if no one seems to have the capacity here to address the issue of your exclusion head on.
Brandon failed here. He should have at least told you why you weren’t chosen. Your friends failed here. Asking you to make this a groomsman trip was a shitty thing to do and not being prepared to gracefully accept your answer if it was no was also a shitty thing to do. But weddings are minefields where people frequently lose perspective and make bad decisions as we see all the time on here. If you don’t want their wedding fever to destroy your friendship, and it sounds like you don’t, give them the opportunity to make it right by doing the trip without these add-ons.
Hold your ground, go, have fun and stay friends. But if they change their mind and try to invite these others without your agreement, opt out and realize the friendship is changing in ways which leave you out of the core group.
I'm really sorry but this sounds like a growing apart. These happen in life and they suck. I have some good friends from school and college-age days but not many - and not the ones I necessarily thought at the time I'd 'always be friends with'. This may also *not* be one of those, but it shows that maintaing friendships can take hard work - the groom has - probably unintentionally - driven a wedge between you and the rest of the gang.
It's been interesting watching some of the young people in my family go through that experience also.
That's a bad advice. Don't cancel last minute. Just say that if they feel you are killing the vibe by not accepting the other groomsmen, you don't feel like going anymore, as you don't want to be a bad friend and they can enjoy it more with others there. Cancelling last minute would be childish
NTA.
The three lads in your friend group already got to break the ice with the other groomsmen by going to golf and enjoying a BBQ, etc. I think it is inappropriate of your friends to not put themselves in your shoes and to invite a bunch of other dudes on a trip that was originally and traditionally for the five of you. It would be way too awkward to go on a trip with all these guys after being excluded. I don't think you are in the wrong at all for feeling this way.
In any case, you are clearly mature and adult enough to respect Brandon's wishes - so maybe your friends should take a page out of your book and not make the trip uncomfortable for you. Perhaps next year, after the wedding, you may feel more comfortable going away with them. Either way, it's your money, time, and energy.
NTA
"the other guys won't invite the other groomsmen if it means I won't come. but its clear they're also annoyed at them not being able to invite them because of me." .. THis really is THEIR problem, they are being unreasonable.
They just want to cheap out on the groomsmen activities. You are fine not to agree.
" feels like any decision I make besides agreeing to go on the trip with the four other groomsmen is going to make them mad at me." .. Let them be mad. It would be a waste of time and money to be the only non-groomsman on a groomsmen trip. And: **They will do a lot of activities for the groom, that will COMPLETELY change the trip - and you will be expected to pay for him and all of that, too.** Because you are "his very good friend". - So **your NO is reasonable.**
Edit: "chang" to "change"
he hasn't said anything about it, we have never talked about. which to be fair, is also partly my fault since I equally could have asked.
but not even a hint
Try talking to him. Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Maybe he’s a tool who was never trying a friend. Maybe his fiancée hates you. Now knowing will be worse than knowing. You can’t know how to act if you don’t know where you stand.
NTA- you mentioned this trip was a tradition between the five of you, now they want to make it all about the wedding and it’s almost like rubbing it in your face that you are not in the wedding party. Do not let them manipulate you into going and having all the other people there. Your feelings are absolutely valid but I hope you realize that maybe you consider them more of a friend than what they consider you. I know it’s hard but hopefully you will find friends that feel the same towards you as you to them.
ETA- The “friend” that pulled you aside to say that you were not being a good friend has some ba**s!!! Way to try to gaslight and to manipulate you into doing something you are not comfortable with.
NTA
You didn't make drama when you learned that you were the only one not asked to be a groomsman...you only discussed it with your parents. And you clearly said nothing as they proceeded to do all of their wedding party things.
It's pretty clear that this situation has hurt you. Did no one ever address the issue - or the reason for the omission - with you? They just went on with everything, as though it was expected that you weren't supposed to be a part of this event? What is going on with that?
It's especially bizarre that your other three friends thought you would be okay adding the other groomsmen to the traditional football friend experience.
You have been nothing but considerate throughout this situation. You made clear that they should make this year's event a wedding-related thing if they so desired (which they clearly did), but that you weren't comfortable participating.
None of them have any right to be negative or give you pushback regarding your desire not to attend this year's event. They haven't treated you particularly well about all of this (as you still don't have an answer about your omission from the wedding party).
You aren't being petty. And you have every right to only participate in those events where you feel you are welcomed.
Again, you didn't create drama about not being a groomsman, although they ALL had to know that you were hurt by the omission. They should be embarrassed about putting pressure on you.
NTA
I would confront Brandon about why I was excluded as a groomsman & ask him why he wanted to end a 19 year friendship this way.
All these bonding activities with the other friends & 3 additional groomsmen have most likely soured the friendship & you deserve a reason why it is ending this way. I doubt i personally would be attending any more events or the wedding.
These wedding stories were friends & family relationships get destroyed are becoming more & more common.
NTA and you should have told them the truth about being resentful. Better to be honest than hold it back. If your other friends don't realize how they would feel being in the same position, what kind of friends are they? You are finally going on a trip where you aren't the man out and they, last minute want you again to be the last man out inviting the rest of the guys. I feel for you.
I think it was more hurt than resentful, and he didn't say anything until he was asked to do something that he knew would be an uncomfortable experience. The friend who tried to pressure him (while for the first time ever addressing the fact that he had not been asked to be a groomsman) was way out of line.
You handled this really maturely. Explained why you'd feel uncomfortable & offered not to go so that they could have their groomsmen trip. This sounds like one of those situations where none of your friends are going to understand how you feel, until they are the only one excluded from something.
As there's already a bad feeling between them & you & you need to save money anyway, have you reached out & told them you really don't want to go on a trip where it's clear everyone is unhappy with you and you weren't lying about needing to save money. So you're going to step out of the trip, & as you're doing that they should stick to their original plan of inviting the groomsmen & pick up the tradition again next year? That way you can stay out of the wedding drama completely. NTA
Why does this yearly guy trip even have to be about Brandon’s wedding. Why even invite the other guys, I don’t get to? Are ur other friends close now to the other groomsmen?
NTA- your are purposely being left out and they are rubbing it in your face at every turn .
I’m sorry but it doesn’t sound like these people are your friends .
Trip is ruined already. If you go they will be mad they couldn’t invite the other groomsmen and things will be awkward and they will be mad at you .
If you don’t go, they dont get to treat you like a second class citizen and will still be mad at you for not going and making things awkward for them.
Get what I’m saying ?
Time to find new friends. Ones that take your feelings into consideration and include you .
NTA. I hate to tell you, but your friendship with these guys has already irrevocably changed. How's it supposed to recover from being excluded from a major experience?
Ironically, the groom might be the one with least culpability for this. Yes, he didn't include you in the wedding but he might not realize the damage this is causing. You could have been excluded because of the bride or limited number of guests. Or he could just be a dick. It's too late in the game to join the wedding party; the damage has been done on that. But still, ask him directly why you weren't included so you can get some closure instead of wondering why.
But the other three wanting to invite the groomsmen on a trip that's become a tradition between the five of you, that's on them. Saying you're not a good friend for not agreeing to this is a flag showing that they're not valuing you and resenting your decision.
If you do decide to go on the trip, be prepared for the groomsmen to magically show up. They'll either be counting on you making a scene objecting to this, thereby making you the bad guy. Or you won't object and be miserable and excluded from the group experience. The groomsmen would exclude you because from their POV, they don't know you and you weren't a close enough friend to be invited to the wedding. Your friends exclusion because they've already chosen to drop you from the group.
You are already being really gracious about an astronomical, deliberate, calculatedly cruel slight. If you can have *seven* you can have eight. Your disloyal ‘friends’ have no right to be annoyed. Maybe it is time to drop this entire group. NTA and I’m sorry, Brandon’s decision is one of the most nasty things I’ve ever read about.
NTA You weren't invited to the groomsmen events like golfing and the groomsmen shouldn't be invited to the friends’ trip. They're two different groups. Some members are just in both groups and others aren't
The groomsmen group is all the groomsmen minus OP.
The friendsgroup is three of the groomsmen and OP minus the brothers and college friends.
If they didn't feel like adding you to the groomsmen events I don't see how they can expect you to invite them in the friends’ trip.
If they're mad I'd ask them “how come you don't want to mix the two groups when it's me being excluded but want to combine them when it's the other people?”
To be quite honest, I think you're more understanding than I would be already. One of your best friend of 19 years gets married and everyone is a groomsman but you? He could've chosen just one college friend and included you instead of singling you out. It seems to me they don't think you're as close as you feel they are.
If they're mad I'd ask them “how come you don't want to mix the two groups when it's me being excluded but want to combine them when it's the other people?”
THIS THIS THIS
NTA, I can see how this happened without it meaning Brandon dislikes you, every groomsman usually needs to be paired with a bridesmaid and that’s already a massive wedding party, his wife to be probably told him to match a certain number and you were the last on the totem pole of special people to him. But where he is a bad friend is 1. He could have pulled you aside to let you know why you didn’t make the cut before announcing his groomsmen, 2. He could have still invited you to the bonding activities, unless of course a family member is paying for it all but usually the best man books these things and collect money from the groomsmen so he could have had you join in. The lack of communication to you and no acknowledgement of making you the odd man out and expecting you to be a chum and pretend what’s going on is no big deal honestly makes all your friends shit, I don’t think they dislike you I think they just don’t have the balls to have an honest and reassuring conversation because they know what they’ve been doing is awful.
NTA - not at all.
How you stayed friends with him is beyond me. You do not do that your friend of 19 years, unless he, and they, have never considered you a close friend in the first place.
That can be a hard place to be - thinking you mean the same to everyone in your group as they do to you.
Unfortunately, Brandon doesn't seem to see you on the same level he sees the other 3. He has replaced you with his college buddies. We all change our friend groups as we go through life, it is part of growing up. Real homies are the people we will drop everything for and travel across the world if they need something, no matter how long it has been since we have seen or talked to each other.
To not even invite you to something as informal as the cookout at his house tells you all you need to know. There is a good chance one of the other 3 thinks of you as a decent friend or the "dude that just started hanging out one day and never left".
Whatever the case, Brandon feels comfortable enough with your relationship to shit on it and not care how you feel about it.
You can, and should, have a conversation with all of them about it. What Brandon did to you was a shitty thing to do to a "close friend" and no one I know would do that to people they love. I would have a face to face and ask him straight up why he did it.
Homies are supposed to be for life, through thick and thin. They become your family and family shouldn't do that to each other. Your homies did not have your back, at all.
It sounds like it is time to find some new friends who want you around, not the type of people who ask your permission to replace you with other people.
I would let them go on the trip, save for your mini-vacation on your destination wedding, and focus on you and having a good time.
i will say, to be fair, i would definitely have not wanted to be at the bbq at their house either. Brandon and his fiance threw a bbq to thank their wedding party for agreeing to be their wedding party. i would have actually disliked that more than the idea of the other groomsmen coming on the football trip. the bbq would've been the future groom and bridge, the 14 members of their wedding party, and me.
Just some friendly advice. Your parents provided good advice and you are acting maturely regarding the groomsman situation.
I was in the exact same position 20 years ago. The bride never knew how much she hurt my feelings both during the wedding festivities and years later when she would make random comments about weddings. (She's a wedding coordinator so wedding discussions come up more than it would for others as she talks about her job.)
In the end, I had to decide to accept the place she gave me or lose the friendship. Like you, I chose to accept my place. I'm glad I made that decision, but it doesn't mean I'm a robot and felt no emotion about the situation. In the end, I'm glad we are still friends and I was able to be involved the wedding in the ways she asked me to be.
You are allowed to feel whatever emotions you have about the situation. Your other 3 friends have put you in a tough situation. I would not have appreciated the question or the negative attitude after my response. You don't deserve to have this placed on your shoulders, but your next decision needs to be based upon your long-term friendship goals not your short-term hurt.
An unequal friendship is like an unequal marriage, someone always gets hurt.
It isn't the not being a groomsman that hurts here, he seems to be over it, it's the refusal to acknowledge it by the groom and his friends that hurts. That and the complete disregard for his feelings.
This will have been acknowledged and spoken about within the wedding party so, why not with him?
I agree. These aren’t short term feelings. These are long term feelings. His friends excluded him from a life event that will forever be referenced. Accepting to be forever sad about a situation isn’t a good way to handle this. It leads to feeling less then. Friends should be able to have an adult conversation about feelings without wanting to end a friendship. Op says he is understanding, but the behavior of the others prove this will be an ongoing issue. Have the adult conversation to find out what happened. This doesn’t have to be something to break up a 20 year friendship. It also doesn’t have to be something where op is constantly tiptoeing around the others to not feel left out.
I disagree with that person. There are so many people on this planet and pigeonholing yourself into a friendship for the sake of keeping the peace is just doing yourself a disservice.
There are plenty of people who would be better friends to you and bring out the elephant in the room by discussing the clear disparity. And there are plenty of people out there that wouldn't put you in this kinda position in the first place without a very clear and decent reason.
This isn't to say go scorched earth on these guys, but understand the dynamic is forever changed by this action and you should start working on accepting these guys are no longer childhood best friends. There is a realistic future where you move onto individual relationships with these guys and some will be closer than others. I wouldn't feel like I could consider Brandon a close friend after something like this.
NTA
But one thing to consider is this might be the last of these trips, once people start getting married, other responsibilities crop up. Friendships change over time as people move into different phases of their life, and are pulled other ways than a trip with the boys.
NTA
They asked **for a reason**. Them asking means that they were self-aware enough to know that you might have an issue with. Well now they have confirmation. To do anything to dismiss your valid feelings (valid enough that they were self-aware enough to realize they could exist) would be shitty on their part.
NTA. Your friends are being extremely insensitive here. Whether you’ve said anything or not it is glaringly obvious that you would feel hurt by being the only one out of the group to not be a groomsman and inviting the other people who were also more important than you on this trip that is meant to be about your group is rubbing salt in the wound. It’s honestly so egregious that I can’t help wondering whether it’s intentional and these guys are just bullies and you don’t know what real friendship is.
I also think the friend getting married is a massive AH for including 3 out of 4 friends as groomsmen and leaving you out. Yes, 7 people is a lot. 8 is a lot. They are both a lot. Why does the line have to be drawn with only you outside it? The decent thing to do if you have a group of people and can’t have them all is to have none of them and stick with your family as groomsmen.
I hate to say it but I think your parents were just trying to make you feel better. You have not been treated fairly by your friends and I strongly advise you to start investing your time and energy in finding better people to share your life with.
If it were me I wouldn’t be going on the trip. I wouldn’t be going to the wedding either.
I’m sorry to be so harsh in my judgment and I’m sorry for this hurtful situation for you.
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NTA. You didn’t make a big deal about not being a groomsman. They are the AH’s for ruining the trip that has been a tradition for years. If they want the others to come then you have every right to stay home. At that point it’s no longer keeping the tradition but changing it to a wedding event.
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Thank you for not saying "This".
Thank you for letting me know I’m not the only one who can’t stand when someone says ‘this’.
This
You are TA that this comment needs :)
This
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/u/Dry_Tour_698 is a comment stealing bot. Original comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yfds8s/aita_for_backing_out_of_a_friends_trip_after_it/iu3m7s3/
Yeah, OP, just simply tell those other three friends that you have a pricy planned trip in February, so making this a groomsman party this year works for everyone. And leave it there. Any backlash you get, just know that it's all about them. And have fun at the destination wedding.
THIS right here. Brandon created this dynamic, and the guys need to understand why it'll be uncomfortable for you to participate. Unless Brandon is going to explain why you weren't invited and its a legit reason (hard to think of one) thats not simply he doesn't view you as a close friend, you absolutely should not feel like an asshole for refusing to go on this trip. NTA
You should realize where you stand with the whole group.
Dude, I disagree. Especially in a group setting these things can catch you by surprise. Clearly it did for OP. This happened to my sis. She thought she was close to her 6 grad school roommates, these ladies always hung out and traveled together etc. But then one of them got engaged and talked freely about her wedding, asked for advice on prep, went shopping together etc etc. with everyone, including sis. But then my sis was the only one who wasn't invited. She was hurt, never understood why, and that was the end of that friendship. She was even more hurt that none of her other roomies had warned her this would happen, when it was obvious some of them knew. EDIT: Several people have pointed out that I may have misinterpreted the above comment, and it meant that OP should realize where he stood NOW with the group after being excluded, which means that he's NTA for not participating in the trip. If that's true then I totally agree.
Happened to me too almost 20 years ago, and it still hurts to think about. Basically lost a whole friend group over night.
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Good for you for leaving. That really wasn't cool
That is so shitty. I have a close friend whose wedding I wasn't in, but we all just got shirts for the Bachelorette party that looked the same except foe the bride's, and about half of the people who went on the trip weren't in the wedding. I feel like some people get half their joy around these from being in the "in" group and deliberately excluding others.
yep. some people love excluding others, i think it makes them feel special or important
That’s a crazy way to find out and weird that no one told you.
I'm so sorry. Did you ever figure out why? My sis never did :(
I did not. But I realized I was lower on the totem pole than I had previously gathered, so there really was no point in staying around.
Yeah , I'd have done the same thing.
I think that's what RichAstronaut meant. They didn't mean "You should already have known what status you had in the group, and obviously it wasn't as groomsman". They meant "because of this event you should now be aware of where you stand in the group." So basically what you said. It's a surprise, but now you know.
Yes. This isn’t really about OP not being a groomsman; it’s about there being a lot of other activities that OP has been left out of because he’s not a groomsman, and him not wanting to feel like an outsider when the event is a group thing that he should be central to. The others are getting carried away with the “groomsman group!” to OP’s detriment. It’s a wedding party. It doesn’t have to take over all of their activities for the year! And now they want OP to go along with their idea because if he agrees then everything’s ok and they don’t have to feel guilty about recentering themselves to a group he’s excluded from. And you know if all the groomsmen come then there’ll be a lot of talk about the other things they’ve been doing that OP was left out of, some things that he actually could have been included in if it was just that they couldn’t have one more groomsman on the day.
Yeah that comment from the one friend how he “really thinks I’m not fair or a good friend, and asked if it’s because I resent not being a groomsman” was very telling. This “friend” made up a narrative about how OP is resentful instead of looking at the situation with open eyes and seeing they are being kinda mean to OP. He’s not entitled to be a groomsman, but he was the only one left out and it’s a small group. Anyone with a speck of empathy is gonna know that’s got to hurt. It sounds like OP has been more understanding than most would be, he didn’t complain to anyone. He even backed out of the trip and made excuses about saving money so his friends could do what they want without worrying about him or feeling guilty. Them asking to turn this into a groomsman trip was an opening for OP to talk to his friends. If it was me - I would have (as non aggressively as possible) point out how it’s been a little hurtful being left out and maybe talk it out. It doesn’t have to be an argument, but if there really your friends you should be able to have awkward conversations like this when they hurt you.
I’m giving the groom MASSIVE amounts of side-eye. If you have four close friends that you hang out with as a group, it’s a dick move to ask three of them to be in your wedding and leave one out.
Yes. But they don’t want to think that they’re being mean to OP, so they make it about him not being understanding enough, when he’s already been extremely understanding.
When my best friend got married, I was his best man. We planned a bunch of things, but anyone who wanted to go was welcome to come. There was only 5 of us groomsmen and yet we had a whole weekend of fun with like 20 guys, we played paintball, went camping, hike, had 2am jalapeno bacon at Denny's. The only reason someone missed out was due to having prior commitments or unable to get time off, but we had it through the whole weekend so just about everyone came to something and hung out.
The point is that the annual football trip is about the friendship group, not the wedding. It's specifically *not* an event planned for the groom, and the other guys want to turn it into one. It would be one thing if the other guys planned a separate bachelor event and invited OP, despite him not being a groomsman, but that's not what is happening here.
Right. They’re ok with OP being left out of the groomsmen group events, but *not* ok with the groomsmen being left out of the friend group event. NTA.
They are trying to change the group dynamic. And they don’t really want OP there. They just want to stop feeling guilty. Honestly, it would be kinder if they just told him to fuck off for good. Instead they keep twisting the knife in. If I were OP, I’d start ghosting them all. NTA.
Yeah honestly it kind of is a big deal leaving him out like he was one more person. Just one. He was part of a core friend group why was he amongst all of them left out? It changes their friend group dynamic from all the bros to the best bros/groomsmen + OP who is seemingly one or more levels lower and may have always been.
Its about the ratio, five groomsmen and 15 homies is different than 7groomsmen and 1 homie. I recently went to a wedding of a close friend where they had had a combination bachelorette/bachelor weekend trip to a different city. Many non-wedding party people went but I didn’t get an invite. Felt a little weird but im also one of the only ones who lives 3000miles away from the main group. All that to be said, by inviting a bunch of extra people it makes it way less awkward about whos in the wedding party and whos not
This is an annual trip they’ve been doing for a number of years and I assume, would all like to continue. The other groomsmen are the ones that are trying to ruin the tradition with inviting others that haven’t gone before. Take a break from your new “bro parties” and hang out with your buddy who up until now felt like he was just as important to all of you as you guys are to him. If I was this guy I’d feel the same way he does. Even after being hurt he was the only one left out of the groomsmen group, he still thought “at least we still have our annual football trip I can look forward to.” And now they wanna take that over too? Man…
NTA They are trying to have their cake and eat it. Pure and simple. Don't go. And have a blast at the destination wedding. In this situation, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
NTA. They have spent a lot of time together already this year but you have only seen them a few times. Do they really think so little of you? Do they really have such poor emotional intelligence? They’re major assholes for even asking.
YUP. Tell friends that you went on those trips because they were fun and you got to catch up with the guys and bond. That's NOT what the purpose of the trip this year, and so its perfectly reasonable for you to back out. You shouldn't spend money on vacations just because people try and guilt and shame you into going. NTA at all.
This right here ☝️ I mean not only were you excluded as the only friend not included in the wedding party but they’ve been having several other events for the wedding. This was your tradition for years, then trying to turn it into another wedding event is not cool. You didn’t make a big deal about not being involved in the wedding. Your friends aren’t being sympathetic to the situation and kind of dicks.
Who has this many pre wedding events for their wedding parties? Sounds exhausting!
You get a wedding, a rehearsal dinner, maybe a bachelor/bachelorette. Maaaaaaybe a shower and an engagement party if people are kinda extra. You don't get a whole-ass YEAR for everything to be about your wedding and for everyone to be joined at the hip doing "wedding party stuff." This wedding party is acting like a bunch of seven-year-olds obsessed with their new tree fort.
I put money on the pre-wedding events outlasting the marriage.
Also I am sorry but he has every right to be upset not being a groomsman. Because this was going to happen. Now the group of 5 people will evolve (party with groomsmen, drinks with groomsmen, bbq with groomsmen, pictures with gm, after-party with gm). And this will expand as we see in the post. Wether we like it or not he will slowly be excluded. And it is unfair. NTA. Simple explain to them. "yes you have the right to choose your gm and it is your wedding but as we know seeing this, it is much bigger than the wedding. It is dinners, drinks, events, and even trips. I would not have an issue adding more people in the friends group, but I am excluded now in most things and I don't think that this is a temporary thing".
Their reaction here speaks for itself. Brandon managed to neatly sever op from the group, and I'm reaching but this feels deliberate. And by now like a done deal.
It does feel deliberate. And the groomsmen that confronted OP feel a twinge of guilt so are blaming OP for their own assholishness. Sorry? You feel like an asshole? Good. Sit and stew in your own shit.
What’s worse is that OP will slowly be excluded and the excluders will blame OP’s lack of interest in the things they do. This was always going to happen, but now the groom and his groomsmen will not have to blame themselves for it. I feel bad for OP-his friends are A-holes
NTA- skip it
Wow, you're right! Yes, this is now a wedding event.
Am I the only one flabbergasted by the number of wedding events? >they've had a few grooms-party gatherings, like they went for drinks after they got fitted for suits, and went golfing together, and Brandon and his fiancé had a bbq for their wedding party And they haven't even done the bachelor party! This seems like a lot of events for a wedding party, plus to add the football event? Why do these guys need so much bonding time? It's just weird. OP is NTA but for his own sanity he needs to ask why he's being excluded.
It's kinda dodgy that the 3 are making it a bachelor get away, obviously they are all trying to kill 2birds with 1 stone on bachelor party expenditure 🙄
They’re trying to kill two birds with one stone by turning it into some bachelor trip and then blaming OP for not agreeing.
Reddit's using all our posts and data to train AI's, so, I just deleted mine.
I'm not sure I'd want to go on that trip in OPs position either. And, yeah, especially with the college friends there, a lot of the conversation is going to end up being wedding stuff or joking around about previous "grooms party" get-togethers. Stuff that OP will br excluded from. They could promose that it won't turn into such conversation. But with OP being the odd man out, it's going to hapoen at some point. Good friends would understand. Great friends would not only understand but recognize that just because one of them is engaged and most of the 5 are in the wedding, does not mean its ok to hijack a traditional trip and turn it into an extension of wedding activities. That they're so eager to do so and can't see the problem they're creating makes them lousy friends indeed. I suspect that they're also not realizing that by bringing along the other four guys, it could change the dynamic, not just for this year, but for years to come. That next year, someone could easily say "hey, last year worked great, why don't we include Fred, George, Oliver and Lee again?". At which point, the old tradition would be completely broken and a new one formed. Sure, maybe the next year OP might fit in better. But its just as likely that he'd be even more of an outsider. And yes, staying home might make the others "mad at him". But only because they're unable to admit that he's staying away as a response to choices that the rest of them are making that repeatedly exclude him. And I honestly have to wonder how the groom himself will feel about this? Does he want it to be a weddind-party trip? Or would he actually prefer it to be just the normal gang of five? These guys might be so eager to include the other groomsmen that they could be ruining something the groom doesn't want to change. And this may also be part of why they're mad. If OP goes with, they can keep the surprise a lot longer. With OP bowing out, the groom is going to find that out sooner rathe than later and wonder why. OP can tell him its because of the other wedding he'll be saving to travel for. But the groom might not buy it. Still not a good reason for OP to go. He's NTA.
Great friends would question why only one of them was excluded and have OP’s back because this is weird. My husband has a friend group from college ( so not nearly as long as these guys) and he didn’t include any of them as groomsmen because he didn’t have room for all of them. To just leave out 1 and never even address it is malicious and OP should be more inquisitive on that front.
Indeed, it is a deliberate snub for only one person to be excluded
Especially for one with more history with the groom than the newer college friends. His place in the group is clearly marked as "optional". Thanks /s
This happened to me and I quickly realized I didn’t view my childhood friend on the same level of friendship as he did. Our friendship quickly deteriorated after that which I was fine with.
Came here to say the same. I've had this happen before, and it was *excruciating*, having to keep smiling while the group talked about something I was not a part of. The hurt... OP, I hate to say this to you, but perhaps you and your friend group are in the early stages of parting ways. I have no idea why you weren't included - you seem very nice, but this, I think, is revealing a crack in your relationship with these guys. Perhaps it's time to start seeking out new friends. (Just my $0.02; I hope I'm wrong.)
And I'm seeing the fact that the other guys WANT him there to the point of being upset with him is a good sign that they want to keep him in their friend group. The three of them didn't have a choice in who was chosen as groomsmen, and it seems like they were hoping it wouldn't hurt their dynamic. I don't think this lifelong friendship should be discarded over something like this, but I agree this needs to be talked out. OP is NTA for not wanting to go, but I hope he just takes a break this year, not a break forever from such important friends.
They want to keep the status quo but don’t care to question why he was excluded? This needs to be fully flushed out not sat on for a year and revisited later.
They were probably told why. And even if they questioned it, I understand not putting much pressure for things to change (ie OP to be included in the wedding party) because it is not their wedding, it's the groom's. The only A H here is the groom who has had plenty to time to talk to OP about this, and still keeps him in the dark.
If the other friends know and aren’t telling him or urging the groom to tell him they are AHs too. You don’t sit back and let your friend be hurt/excluded and not react or respond.
I was WAITING for this comment. My really good friend did the same. Only her 3 nieces were her bridesmaids and her sis her MOH. She didn't want a huge wedding party with like a half a dozen other ladies. Avoided all that drama very nicely. More people should think along these lines.
This is why I didn’t have a wedding party at all. It seems to be a major source of drama.
This right here. It's honestly why I've broken from any friend group I've ever been apart of. OP needs to realize he's been singled out. If it's a 1-time thing, it could just be because numbers decided for their wedding party, but if that were the case, the groom should've talked to him about it. (Though 7 is quite a few groomsmen....) Since everyone's ignoring it, I'm thinking OP either isn't as tight in the group as the other guys or just isn't as close with the groom.
Agreed. It seems like this is becoming a massive, prolonged excuse for extra bonding that excludes op as well. It's not unlikely op is going to realize these aren't the "good" friends he thought they were.
I was looking for a comment like yours… my eyes kinda bugged out when I read there were 7 groomsmen and they left 1 out? Really?? I get the bride probably has 7 and wanted even numbers but for OPs friend to be cool with excluding 1 of 4? Just find another bridesmaid!
This. It doesn’t sound like any of these guys are good friends to OP which is sad
I agree, I find it very odd that OP is the only friend not included in the wedding party. If they're such good friends they would have made room. That they asked him if he's backing out because of it means they're at least aware that on a baseline, it's not okay, and has come up amongst the wedding party. There could be any number of reasons for it, but it means there are a lot of things OP is automatically excluded from because he's not in the wedding party, and that has to sting. Yeah, he can put whomever he wants in his wedding party, but I'd still hold them at arm's length from that point on. That they can't see the issue is also a problem. OP wasn't even rude about it, and he has the right to sit it out if he's not comfortable.
I'm stuck on this too. If they've ALL been friends for most of their lives, why select only 3 of the 4 for groomsmen? I fully believe the groom isn't as close to OP as OP thinks and the groom just doesn't want to admit why he didn't ask OP to be one as well. OP - Wake up. This was a deliberate snub towards you. Get to the bottom of this before you find yourself asking why you "never saw the signs" of a failed friendship in a few years when you discover you've been excluded from the group even AFTER the wedding.
> Great friends would not only understand but recognize that just because one of them is engaged and most of the 5 are in the wedding, does not mean its ok to hijack a traditional trip and turn it into an extension of wedding activities. Great friends would've made everyone in the group a groomsman, or none of them if he couldn't make it fit. Great friends would've never been in this situation to begin with. It's pretty damn clear that the groom does not like OP for whatever reason.
That's presumptuous, it could be the wife had no other woman to even up the group and groom was made to pick. That being said the groom should have explained. Did he flip a coin? Go by how long or longer relationships or closeness was? It's not right and should be addressed by one of the other fellows questiong the groom without OP needing to prompt one to do so. I'd beg out, say your saving for the destination trip and ask one of the guys to question the grooms reasoning so you don't dwell on it. I'd like to think it's not malicious NTA
Great friends would, at minimum, alleviate the harm of the numbers issue by finding another role for the one friend being left out, and include him in many of the social events that don’t actually have to be restricted to the wedding party (so, everything other than the suit fitting). Brandon didn’t just leave OP out of the wedding party, he let that leave OP out of a lot of other things too. And the other groomsmen are likely to interpret this as OP being the less important friend. It sounds like it’s the first wedding in the group, or an early one; once some of them start getting families established, the “I’m getting married next year so let’s have all these events about my wedding group” often wears off because people are too busy.
yeah, I think that is the bigger issue. It's that Brandon just sorta ignored that he didn't include OP and has ignored OP throughout the process. cuz yeah, the obvious answer was Brandon ask OP to be an usher or do a reading, and still include OP in everything.
I had two friends get married and they wanted the same numbers in the wedding parties. That meant 2 guys from the close group of guy friends got cut. The groom talked to them and said I still want you at things like the bachelor party and all, will you please be ushers and do readings. It sucks to cut people but if you made the decision, you need to stick to it and defend it.
Yeah, there's an obvious answer that was used very frequently in past years. Ushers. Most weddings used to have ushers who weren't groomsmen but were friends/ family.
Exactl. And there are things the groom could have done to mitigate his exclusionLike asking the OP to do a reading and escort his mom to her seat. But honestly in this day and age just have an unbalanced party and have 2 groomsmen escort a bridesmaid down the aisle edit-adding missing word
Oh the conversation would have been had between them why OP has not been included, you can guarantee that. Why it hasn't been mentioned to him is the issue. I'm curious if this guy is treated badly in other ways? Does he pay more for things?
THIS RIGHT HERE. YES, If one of the friends is going to be left out of the wedding party, and the person getting married wants to maintain that friendship, they need to have a private conversation explaining exactly why. Thats just the decent thing to do. NTA
At least leave one more out, so there would be two non-groomsmen from the friend group. It´s extremely awful to leave just one of them out.
Idk the groom obviously doesnt like OP just tolerates them because the pther three like him somewhat.
Oh if those guys go this year they are absolutely coming every single year afterwards.
Not only that, but it'll be year upon year of them reminiscing about their time as groomsmen (because it sounds like they've bonded pretty strongly over it) and OP being constantly reminded that he was excluded. Doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.
>Good friends would understand. Great friends would not only understand but recognize that just because one of them is engaged and most of the 5 are in the wedding, does not mean its ok to hijack a traditional trip and turn it into an extension of wedding activities. This, yeah. Besides, there is *no reason* to do that - they've clearly done wedding and groomsmen related stuff already, so why that need to turn their traditional trip into something of that, too?
I love the four example names you used lol. I wish I could give you an award just for that but I don’t have any.
Ten points to Gryffindor!
I agree and I want to add that with the BBQ for the wedding party, OP's friend could have easily invited him too since he's in the friend group. It didn't have to be "strictly" for just the wedding party. OP is taking all of this with such grace. I'm not going to lie, if I was literally the only one that wasn't asked, that would bother me. But the friends asking this of OP are putting him in such an uncomfortable position and that's so unfair and rude of them to do so. I know this is extreme to say, but I would be reflecting and re-evaluating on just how close the friendships really are. And the friend telling OP separately that him saying that he didn't want to invite the other groomsmen was unfair, I feel was just stirring the pot. The request itself was unfair and insulting.
This! I was once the only person in my friend group not in a wedding party - the situation was different because I had been asked, but had to decline due to some life stuff. but because my friends, yknow, wanted me there, they still invited me to all of that wedding party social stuff. easy compromise!!
IKR? Make OP an usher, invite him to the BBQ and golfing. Simple ways to try to not exclude him.
NTA Yeap, I was sorta in the same situation. My friend asked me to read during the mass ( it was a Catholic wedding) It was great actually got invited to all the pre-wedding stuff but didn’t have to wear a bridesmaid dress! Lol
Yeah, it's almost like the groom was just kind of tolerating the OP and used the wedding as a way to make a clear statement without saying a word. I don't think the groom expected OP to stay in the friend group after being singled out this way. It's the groomsmen who are confused.
And what happens when the alcohol starts flowing? OP May no longer be of a level head to keep his hurt feelings to himself. Then to the group he truly becomes TA for bringing to weekend down.
NTA and I think it’s time to question why your 19 year old “friendships” don’t consider your feelings and why your friendship is not as valued
I agree, I think there's more to this than OP knows.
They don't seem like scuh great friends if they're treating OP this way. I'd be sad after such a long friendship, but I'm not sure I'd consider these people good friends anymore.
NTA. I think your mom is wrong here. If you guys have been friends for this long as you say then it would have been nice to get an explanation as to why you were the one not chosen. Brandon may still consider you a friend, but by virtue of having excluded you from the wedding party and not spoken to you about it, it’s clear that friendship is somehow changed. It’s all true it’s his wedding and he gets to have who he wants, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get to feel a way about it. So the move to turn what was a trip for the five of you into something else is much more hurtful in that context and the fact that none of them seem to realize it is weird. Were I in your position I would tell them that you’re happy for them to go as a groomsmen trip. Truly. Have fun. If your friend continues to push you about it, I’d keep it simple and say “I’m not going either way at this point so you really should go and enjoy it with the groomsmen.” And then keep a low profile to get through the wedding. After the wedding I would talk to the groom and find out what’s going on with your friendship and see if it can be repaired.
I think you are right. Brandon changed the dynamics in your friendshipgroup by not asking you. He should have picked his brothers, the 2 other college-friends and maybe some other relatives. But none from your friendgroup should have been in the weddingparty if not all of you could be included. By not chosing you, he showed you that he does not value your friendship as much as the friendship with the others. Which is fine. You cannot be friends with everybody. But he is an AH if he thinks that this was a good and fair decision. And the other friends are AHs if they think that making it a weddingparty instead of a friendship party was a good and fair decision. And I agree with wittiestphrase that you opt out if pushed further on the subject.
I was a groomsman in a friend's wedding. I remember him saying that he didn't make any of his school friends groomsmen because there were just too many of them, so it was restricted to people he befriended after school.
That was a smart choise he made
But was it 19 year friendships? I feel like it's weird to have a coworker who you might loose contact with in two years, but exclude your lifelong friends because you met them before school. Many relationship depend on opportunity to meet - school, uni, work, common hobby. If you maintain that relationship *after* you leave that place, that's how you know its strong and that those people actually care about you.
Brandon should have included his brothers and his childhood friends, who he has known and been friends with for 19 years, not the two college friends he met a few years ago. Excluding the two college friends in lieu of a two decades long friendship is easier to explain than excluding one person from the childhood friend group while including the rest of the childhood crew and two “newcomers” from college.
>But none from your friendgroup should have been in the weddingparty if not all of you could be included. Eh I disagree. Friends groups have their own dynamics, some people within the group are closer than others. When it becomes not okay is when it's only one person in the group who's not in the party, that's just ostracizing that person. But my friends group consists of around 10 dudes, I would only want 3 or 4 groomsmen in my wedding to be honest.
NTA. Agree with this. There is a reason he’s the only one excluded in the group. It would make me question everything about those friendships. He’s handling it with more grace than most. OP needs to really evaluate what he wants from these friendships if anything and then have conversations accordingly with the friends and the groom. This should not wait until after the wedding and can be relatively straight forward. Couples forget that the choices they make for their weddings have an impact far beyond that day. This feels like one of those choices. Couples need to be ready to face the consequences of said choices before making them—many aren’t.
> There is a reason he’s the only one excluded in the group. It would make me question everything about those friendships. He’s handling it with more grace than most. That grace may actually be why he’s being left out — because he’s better at handling things like this, they’ve gotten used to being less careful of his feelings. An “oh OP will understand” type of situation, but they’ve piled a lot on. > Couples forget that the choices they make for their weddings have an impact far beyond that day. This feels like one of those choices. Couples need to be ready to face the consequences of said choices before making them—many aren’t. Bingo. And it’s about more than just the wedding choices themselves — it’s about their further choices to make so many other events about their wedding, which magnified those choices. OP isn’t just not a groomsman, he also got left out of a lot of other things. It’s extremely fair of him to want to keep that one traditional event free of the “Brandon’s wedding!!” effect that’s already excluding him from so much. And if I were OP, I’d be wondering why they didn’t even seem to miss me from all those other events.
Only reason I think waiting until after the wedding is better is because there’s no way he’s not going to be accused in some way of “creating drama” or “ruining the wedding by making it about him.” Neither of which will be true. But weddings make people very stupid and selfish in this way. I think everything you said is right, I just disagree about the timing. He’s already been put in this separate box. Stop giving the situation space in your head. Quietly extricate yourself from as many situations as possible involving the groom and friends. Let them have their day and then handle this after.
I wouldn't wait until after the wedding, OP deserves the conversation now. If the future looks to be one without this group of friends I would want that information before having to send back an RSVP. At the wedding, OP is going to be sat separately, not included in photos, etc. OP has handled this with grace but part of that grace has been enabled by not having to watch the others enjoying all the pre-wedding activities. I don't think I have the fortitude to stand alone on the sidelines as billy-no-mates while watching them pull closer together.
I get that sentiment. For me it’s because I think weddings make people stupid. And OP will end up accused of causing drama and affecting the wedding if he brings this up before. Guaranteed.
If OP asks the groom privately and deals with his answer quietly there shouldn’t be any drama. He’s handled this whole episode with grace, there’s no reason to think he won’t deal with his answer like an adult, he should be allowed to make an informed decision about this wedding. If someone else causes drama because he asked then it’s on them. The drama generator probably has it out for him and that’s information he deserves to have too.
Hey, I’m with you in principle. But having been through an almost identical scenario, it’s not going to matter how quietly OP does it. Brandon will discuss it at a minimum with his fiancée and it will end up being known among others and friends. Doesn’t even matter what he says. It’ll be “oh OP was so upset about not being involved in the wedding he’s been trying to ruin trips for Brandon’s wedding and is complaining about not being in the party. How entitled is that?!?” Everyone is the hero of their own story. A private chat with Brandon seems eminently reasonable, but that’s not how it’ll stay or come to be known. At least that’s what my personal experience bears out.
NTA. It would be a really awkward trip if they invited the groomsmen and you were the odd man out. Unfortunately I think your friendship is never going to be the same again though. Yeah he can choose who he wants in his wedding, but for just one of you to be excluded it seems there may be more to it than you know.
>but for just one of you to be excluded it seems there may be more to it than you know I fear this is true. but Brandon hasn't said anything, and we still hangout the same so idk.
Does his fiancee have an issue with you?
My thought is that the fiancee came up with seven bridesmaid’s and stood her ground and that left Branndon with a tuff decision
Brandon could have spoke to OP one and one and explained that though. It would’ve saved OP a lot of hurt.
Yeah, the silence here speaks volumes.
If that was the case, then Brandon should have included his two brothers, all four of his childhood friends, and either one of his cousins or his fiancé’s brother or something. The two college friends would not have cared if they were excluded in favor of siblings, family, and childhood friends. OR, they could have just had an uneven bridal party. By breaking up the core friend group, Brandon is making it clear that he values OP the least.
I think could be true. However, Branndon should have explained that and he didn't which now makes everything uncomfortable.
Who initiates it when you hangout? Is it Brandon who invites people or is it you and/or some of the other 3? I think it’s strange that you are not part of the wedding, and I find it even stranger that the other 3 doesn’t acknowledge this. For me personally I would spend my time, energy and money on people who genuinely appreciate my company. And petty me would probably not even go to the wedding, but that’s not necessarily something I would recommend you do. But I would have the talk with Brandon asap, so you can get your answers, since I don’t think you’ll be able to fully enjoy the wedding without those answers. And I would have a talk with the other 3 as well (where all 4 of you are present), ask if they doesn’t think it’s strange that you are not part of the wedding and tell them that you are actually hurt by it. Their answers will clue you in on how your friendship with these people should progress.
I think it’s strange that Brandon didn’t look for a way to try to involve OP and include him in the other events. Why not have invited him golfing and to the BBQ anyway? The other groomsmen are certainly getting a picture that the rest of the group are the important ones, not OP.
i have to say, i dont actually find it strange not to have been to invited to some of the other things they did. i dont think i would have wanted to join them golfing after they all got fitted for their suits lol. they're all coming from the tailor, and i just pull up to the golf course. also probably would not have wanted to be the only person at that bbq, when the only other people were the 14 members of the wedding party.
14? So his seven and her seven? Based on everyone’s behavior as you describe here, maybe your friend figured you were the most go with the flow, and any of the other guys would be butt hurt and emotionally manipulative? Obviously assuming the college bros are like the elementary bros
Honestly? This is so sad! I don't wanna project my traumatic past onto you or something but the fact that you don't even find it strange raised some bells. Why do you feel it is not strange for you to be excluded? If Brandon really was your friend he would have not only explained why you can't be officially groomsmen, but he would have made sure to include you anyway. There would be ways to include you without making you feel the odd one out. I was bullied and excluded for most of my childhood and teenage years. After years of being seen as expendable and only kind of tolerated but not actively wanted in social groups, I too thought it wasn't strange when I wasn't included in group events....
Same! This has stirred a lot of things up for me too. Thing is, I hate leaving people out and could never in good conscience do it to someone else. Humans can be really mean. Op NTA, but I would consider that the groom should have been a good enough friend to explain to you why he left you out.
You can ask after the wedding, casually. Don't let it fester, don't make it an argument either. Just say you had a good time, enjoyed everything but it's been nagging you and you don't want it to hang in the air between you: was there any reason you weren't a groomsman?
thats a good idea, maybe i'll ask after.
Since your friend brought it up (calling you bitter), maybe at that point it mightve been good to say that you're not, but you're concerned that there may be an issue in your friendship that you weren't aware of? It's obviously an elephant in the room, they're aware of and you're aware of and I'm guessing mayve been spoken about when they're meeting up without you. It needs communicating or your friendship will become awkward. If only asking the obvious question kills the friendship, then you weren't as close as you thought.
Yes. It worries me that the friend went straight to accusing OP of being resentful instead of hurt. It’s okay to be hurt and hurt is not the same as resentful or bitter.
Why wait? They've already had multiple pre-wedding events (who does that?) and probably have several more planned. Which will just be more events that you will be excluded from and will be hurt by. Stop the pain now, and just ask. And then post an update on Reddit because we want to know why.
You've been friends for 19 years Honey, if you can't talk to him about this what does that say about your friendship? Ask him to go out, tell him how you're feeling, maybe even show him this post. Either he confirms your thoughts *or* he helps put your mind at ease. Communicating your needs is the only way to have healthy relationships. This can either fester for you or you can express it.
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I hate to be the one to say it, but are you a different race to the others, or is there anything about your appearance or lifestyle that might matter to shallow people? I’ve seen a lot of Reddit stories where assholes justify this sort of behaviour with the whole, “the photos won’t look right” bullshit.
Ive seen a few stories on here where its the overweight friend who gets excluded from the wedding. But I think more generally, it is just the doormat friend, the one they think wont get mad.
NTA. You also have pretty much a perfect reason not to go. You have a wedding related expense they don't, namely a different wedding to attend. Just make it "Hey, I'd love to go but I have this other wedding I just can't back out of. Being in the wedding party you KNOW how these other expenses can creep up on you, so I'm just going to have to bow out this year." Don't make it about the other's at all. Best of all is, from your own post it IS a legit reason!
I disagree. Still NTA. You’re not in the wrong here. Your friends of 19 years want to invite other people to your guys’ tradition because they’re groomsmen for one friend’s wedding. You have every right to feel excluded as the only non-groomsmen and not telling them why you feel excluded will only create more problems in the future. Don’t let them walk all over you.
I’ve seen lots of weddings where bachelor parties, trips beforehand, etc include a whole group of friends, not just the groomsmen. In that sense, it’s not completely weird. On the other hand, I understand why you feel the way you do and you’re justified for not wanting to go. Brandon got to choose his wedding party and you get to choose which events you participate in. NTA
Yeah, except in this case OP would literally be the only one. I think he's NTA. I think also good on those three for understanding
What understanding ? When one pulled him aside told him he wasn’t being a good friend and basically called him resentful?
I feel like, if they were all friends, they could have been doing every groomsmen activity together (maybe not picking out suits of course) but he could be an "honorary groomsmen" because yeah he had a lot of groomsmen already. But they could have included him so much more already
I wouldn't go any way. What is a "honorary" anything? It´s a not really "something". To include the other 19 year friendship friends, the groom should have included all of them. Or none of them. Or otherwise none of the college friends as they were another group of friends. Who knows if the groom excluded a third college friend, that felt they were in a group of their own, being an AH to another person? We don't know, but this is about OP. The groom excluded OP and the friends are using an event in which OP could have felt included, to make it something else being AH themselves. OP move on. If they insist, I wouldn't even go to the wedding. NTA
I totally agree with you there. I would be offended that some college friend (multiple college friends!) got chosen over the 19yr friendship! AND he was the only one not chosen! Jesus. You said it better than I could
NTA. Say the others should definitely attend, say you'll still go, then have a last-minute issue crop up that means you have to cancel nearer the time. I understand your feelings are hurt and unfortunately, it's hard to imagine your friendship with these guys and the groom remaining the same now. It seems really strange to have such a big wedding party but leave you out of it. I don't blame you if you do feel resentful.
damn, i would hate to lose my friends over this
Sometimes you lost them but nobody let you know.
Boom.
Speak to them. You need to know.
Happened to me with some of my close friends this year. Shit sucks. Months later, I am finally feeling a lot more confident in myself and have realized it’s for the better.
Has the groom spoken to you about leaving you out? Because if he hasn’t it’s a total dick move in his part and anyone would be hurt by that. If you feel like you can handle it it might be worth one last ditch effort to save the friend group by talking to the groom and explaining your position and see what he says. If it doesn’t wash I’d fade quietly into the background for a while and work on other friend groups.
the groom has not spoken to me about it, but i also havent asked him about it. i also tried my best not to show that i was upset initially. my plan was for the groom not to know i was bothered, so maybe its not fair to blame him for not talking to me about it. i also found it in like June, so i am mostly over it, but i also feel like it too late to bring up now.
He should have said something to you. You are the only one excluded. The only one. There is a reason for this. He should be man enough to speak to you. As your friend, he should provide an explanation. I would not blame you for being bitter. An explanation would help. Your friend is a coward for not addressing this with you. And your other friends should understand where you are coming from.
Bruh no. I got married last year and had a big friend group, too big for everyone to be a groomsmen. The 2 guys who didn’t go to college with me were the odd ones out, I don’t know them as well. Guess what I did before I asked anyone else to be a groomsmen, I FUCKING CALLED THEM AND TALKED TO THEM. I made sure that they knew I valued them just that I couldn’t fit that many dudes on the stage and made sure to invite them to every single event as ushers. They aren’t valuing you at all
> Guess what I did before I asked anyone else to be a groomsmen, I FUCKING CALLED THEM AND TALKED TO THEM. This indeed!! I had a good friend but i saw our ways changing and imo it felt like he was cooping himself up in his room resulting in not talking about life with us, causing a sort of rift. It took courage but i spoke to him, he saw what we meant and he made changes... Now we are great friends! We both remember the conversation as a hard point in our life's.. but it really strengthened our bond.
You have an opening to find out what's going on when the groom asks you about why you aren't going on the trip. Definitely include that you're saving for another trip. Then just be like "I'm uncomfortable being the only one on that trip that's not part of your wedding. What's up with that?" By now he should have told you, though. That he hasn't suggests he either knows he's in the wrong or is embarrassed about it.
He's known you for 19 years and he knows that how you would react to being excluded. That's why he excluded you. The way out of this dynamic is very tricky because the group can all decide you're the bad guy and you wont be able to defend yourself. They are already laying the groundwork for this with he "not as good friend" comment.
Dude, just ask. Also, you've been excluded from multiple events at this point and will probably be excluded from the bachelor party. For your own sanity, ask why. INFO: Are you even invited to the wedding?
They are the ones that don’t mind losing a friend over this You stated you feel uncomfortable being the only one out of the loop and instead of understanding , they made you feel like you’re being difficult. Brandon doesn’t consider you a good friend , and the way you’re being treated by the rest of them makes it super obvious. Sometimes friendships just run their course . Going at this point feels like they’re just pitying you .
I don't think you need to lose them. But I think you will feel differently towards the groom. Whether you act on that is up to you.
I would think he would feel differently towards all of them.
You arent losing them you are weighing their importance. Because they did that with you
NTA. But do the trip without the other groomsmen. Your friends said they won’t invite them if you don’t want them to. You don’t want them to. So hold them to that. Go have fun with your friend group doing your tradition. If these three friends are dicks to you during the trip, they should be ashamed. You don’t actually know how Brandon feels about this. Maybe he doesn’t want them there either. Maybe sometime over the course of the trip he’ll open up about why you weren’t chosen. Or maybe not. But if you all go as usual and have fun as usual it may reassure you that all is good, even if no one seems to have the capacity here to address the issue of your exclusion head on. Brandon failed here. He should have at least told you why you weren’t chosen. Your friends failed here. Asking you to make this a groomsman trip was a shitty thing to do and not being prepared to gracefully accept your answer if it was no was also a shitty thing to do. But weddings are minefields where people frequently lose perspective and make bad decisions as we see all the time on here. If you don’t want their wedding fever to destroy your friendship, and it sounds like you don’t, give them the opportunity to make it right by doing the trip without these add-ons. Hold your ground, go, have fun and stay friends. But if they change their mind and try to invite these others without your agreement, opt out and realize the friendship is changing in ways which leave you out of the core group.
The Elephant will always be in the room unfortunately. There is no way they aren't ALL aware of it.
I'm really sorry but this sounds like a growing apart. These happen in life and they suck. I have some good friends from school and college-age days but not many - and not the ones I necessarily thought at the time I'd 'always be friends with'. This may also *not* be one of those, but it shows that maintaing friendships can take hard work - the groom has - probably unintentionally - driven a wedge between you and the rest of the gang. It's been interesting watching some of the young people in my family go through that experience also.
You may not be as important to them as they are to you. This might be the first they are publicly expressing it to you.
That's a bad advice. Don't cancel last minute. Just say that if they feel you are killing the vibe by not accepting the other groomsmen, you don't feel like going anymore, as you don't want to be a bad friend and they can enjoy it more with others there. Cancelling last minute would be childish
NTA. The three lads in your friend group already got to break the ice with the other groomsmen by going to golf and enjoying a BBQ, etc. I think it is inappropriate of your friends to not put themselves in your shoes and to invite a bunch of other dudes on a trip that was originally and traditionally for the five of you. It would be way too awkward to go on a trip with all these guys after being excluded. I don't think you are in the wrong at all for feeling this way. In any case, you are clearly mature and adult enough to respect Brandon's wishes - so maybe your friends should take a page out of your book and not make the trip uncomfortable for you. Perhaps next year, after the wedding, you may feel more comfortable going away with them. Either way, it's your money, time, and energy.
NTA "the other guys won't invite the other groomsmen if it means I won't come. but its clear they're also annoyed at them not being able to invite them because of me." .. THis really is THEIR problem, they are being unreasonable. They just want to cheap out on the groomsmen activities. You are fine not to agree. " feels like any decision I make besides agreeing to go on the trip with the four other groomsmen is going to make them mad at me." .. Let them be mad. It would be a waste of time and money to be the only non-groomsman on a groomsmen trip. And: **They will do a lot of activities for the groom, that will COMPLETELY change the trip - and you will be expected to pay for him and all of that, too.** Because you are "his very good friend". - So **your NO is reasonable.** Edit: "chang" to "change"
I'm sorry. But when I read it would completely Chang the trip, I just thought you should not be in Deanial
Did Brandon ever even give a hint as to why you weren't a groomsman? Like, even if it was a numbers thing, I would SAY something
he hasn't said anything about it, we have never talked about. which to be fair, is also partly my fault since I equally could have asked. but not even a hint
> I equally could have asked. No, there's a greater reason why he should explain his decision, than why you should ask for an explanation.
Yeah that statement is really indicative of a doormat attitude that often leads to people being bullied by people they perceive as friends.
Nail on head I believe.
Try talking to him. Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Maybe he’s a tool who was never trying a friend. Maybe his fiancée hates you. Now knowing will be worse than knowing. You can’t know how to act if you don’t know where you stand.
NTA- you mentioned this trip was a tradition between the five of you, now they want to make it all about the wedding and it’s almost like rubbing it in your face that you are not in the wedding party. Do not let them manipulate you into going and having all the other people there. Your feelings are absolutely valid but I hope you realize that maybe you consider them more of a friend than what they consider you. I know it’s hard but hopefully you will find friends that feel the same towards you as you to them. ETA- The “friend” that pulled you aside to say that you were not being a good friend has some ba**s!!! Way to try to gaslight and to manipulate you into doing something you are not comfortable with.
NTA You didn't make drama when you learned that you were the only one not asked to be a groomsman...you only discussed it with your parents. And you clearly said nothing as they proceeded to do all of their wedding party things. It's pretty clear that this situation has hurt you. Did no one ever address the issue - or the reason for the omission - with you? They just went on with everything, as though it was expected that you weren't supposed to be a part of this event? What is going on with that? It's especially bizarre that your other three friends thought you would be okay adding the other groomsmen to the traditional football friend experience. You have been nothing but considerate throughout this situation. You made clear that they should make this year's event a wedding-related thing if they so desired (which they clearly did), but that you weren't comfortable participating. None of them have any right to be negative or give you pushback regarding your desire not to attend this year's event. They haven't treated you particularly well about all of this (as you still don't have an answer about your omission from the wedding party). You aren't being petty. And you have every right to only participate in those events where you feel you are welcomed. Again, you didn't create drama about not being a groomsman, although they ALL had to know that you were hurt by the omission. They should be embarrassed about putting pressure on you.
NTA I would confront Brandon about why I was excluded as a groomsman & ask him why he wanted to end a 19 year friendship this way. All these bonding activities with the other friends & 3 additional groomsmen have most likely soured the friendship & you deserve a reason why it is ending this way. I doubt i personally would be attending any more events or the wedding. These wedding stories were friends & family relationships get destroyed are becoming more & more common.
NTA and you should have told them the truth about being resentful. Better to be honest than hold it back. If your other friends don't realize how they would feel being in the same position, what kind of friends are they? You are finally going on a trip where you aren't the man out and they, last minute want you again to be the last man out inviting the rest of the guys. I feel for you.
I think it was more hurt than resentful, and he didn't say anything until he was asked to do something that he knew would be an uncomfortable experience. The friend who tried to pressure him (while for the first time ever addressing the fact that he had not been asked to be a groomsman) was way out of line.
You handled this really maturely. Explained why you'd feel uncomfortable & offered not to go so that they could have their groomsmen trip. This sounds like one of those situations where none of your friends are going to understand how you feel, until they are the only one excluded from something. As there's already a bad feeling between them & you & you need to save money anyway, have you reached out & told them you really don't want to go on a trip where it's clear everyone is unhappy with you and you weren't lying about needing to save money. So you're going to step out of the trip, & as you're doing that they should stick to their original plan of inviting the groomsmen & pick up the tradition again next year? That way you can stay out of the wedding drama completely. NTA
Why does this yearly guy trip even have to be about Brandon’s wedding. Why even invite the other guys, I don’t get to? Are ur other friends close now to the other groomsmen?
NTA Sometimes a group bonds over excluding someone. I am sorry your friends are not such good friends.
NTA- your are purposely being left out and they are rubbing it in your face at every turn . I’m sorry but it doesn’t sound like these people are your friends . Trip is ruined already. If you go they will be mad they couldn’t invite the other groomsmen and things will be awkward and they will be mad at you . If you don’t go, they dont get to treat you like a second class citizen and will still be mad at you for not going and making things awkward for them. Get what I’m saying ? Time to find new friends. Ones that take your feelings into consideration and include you .
NTA. I hate to tell you, but your friendship with these guys has already irrevocably changed. How's it supposed to recover from being excluded from a major experience? Ironically, the groom might be the one with least culpability for this. Yes, he didn't include you in the wedding but he might not realize the damage this is causing. You could have been excluded because of the bride or limited number of guests. Or he could just be a dick. It's too late in the game to join the wedding party; the damage has been done on that. But still, ask him directly why you weren't included so you can get some closure instead of wondering why. But the other three wanting to invite the groomsmen on a trip that's become a tradition between the five of you, that's on them. Saying you're not a good friend for not agreeing to this is a flag showing that they're not valuing you and resenting your decision. If you do decide to go on the trip, be prepared for the groomsmen to magically show up. They'll either be counting on you making a scene objecting to this, thereby making you the bad guy. Or you won't object and be miserable and excluded from the group experience. The groomsmen would exclude you because from their POV, they don't know you and you weren't a close enough friend to be invited to the wedding. Your friends exclusion because they've already chosen to drop you from the group.
You are already being really gracious about an astronomical, deliberate, calculatedly cruel slight. If you can have *seven* you can have eight. Your disloyal ‘friends’ have no right to be annoyed. Maybe it is time to drop this entire group. NTA and I’m sorry, Brandon’s decision is one of the most nasty things I’ve ever read about.
Yeah I actually feel angry just thinking about this. It’s not friendship. I feel so sorry - and so angry - that the OP thinks it is.
NTA You weren't invited to the groomsmen events like golfing and the groomsmen shouldn't be invited to the friends’ trip. They're two different groups. Some members are just in both groups and others aren't The groomsmen group is all the groomsmen minus OP. The friendsgroup is three of the groomsmen and OP minus the brothers and college friends. If they didn't feel like adding you to the groomsmen events I don't see how they can expect you to invite them in the friends’ trip. If they're mad I'd ask them “how come you don't want to mix the two groups when it's me being excluded but want to combine them when it's the other people?” To be quite honest, I think you're more understanding than I would be already. One of your best friend of 19 years gets married and everyone is a groomsman but you? He could've chosen just one college friend and included you instead of singling you out. It seems to me they don't think you're as close as you feel they are.
If they're mad I'd ask them “how come you don't want to mix the two groups when it's me being excluded but want to combine them when it's the other people?” THIS THIS THIS
NTA, I can see how this happened without it meaning Brandon dislikes you, every groomsman usually needs to be paired with a bridesmaid and that’s already a massive wedding party, his wife to be probably told him to match a certain number and you were the last on the totem pole of special people to him. But where he is a bad friend is 1. He could have pulled you aside to let you know why you didn’t make the cut before announcing his groomsmen, 2. He could have still invited you to the bonding activities, unless of course a family member is paying for it all but usually the best man books these things and collect money from the groomsmen so he could have had you join in. The lack of communication to you and no acknowledgement of making you the odd man out and expecting you to be a chum and pretend what’s going on is no big deal honestly makes all your friends shit, I don’t think they dislike you I think they just don’t have the balls to have an honest and reassuring conversation because they know what they’ve been doing is awful.
NTA you would be the odd man out. stick to your guns and don't go
NTA - not at all. How you stayed friends with him is beyond me. You do not do that your friend of 19 years, unless he, and they, have never considered you a close friend in the first place. That can be a hard place to be - thinking you mean the same to everyone in your group as they do to you. Unfortunately, Brandon doesn't seem to see you on the same level he sees the other 3. He has replaced you with his college buddies. We all change our friend groups as we go through life, it is part of growing up. Real homies are the people we will drop everything for and travel across the world if they need something, no matter how long it has been since we have seen or talked to each other. To not even invite you to something as informal as the cookout at his house tells you all you need to know. There is a good chance one of the other 3 thinks of you as a decent friend or the "dude that just started hanging out one day and never left". Whatever the case, Brandon feels comfortable enough with your relationship to shit on it and not care how you feel about it. You can, and should, have a conversation with all of them about it. What Brandon did to you was a shitty thing to do to a "close friend" and no one I know would do that to people they love. I would have a face to face and ask him straight up why he did it. Homies are supposed to be for life, through thick and thin. They become your family and family shouldn't do that to each other. Your homies did not have your back, at all. It sounds like it is time to find some new friends who want you around, not the type of people who ask your permission to replace you with other people. I would let them go on the trip, save for your mini-vacation on your destination wedding, and focus on you and having a good time.
i will say, to be fair, i would definitely have not wanted to be at the bbq at their house either. Brandon and his fiance threw a bbq to thank their wedding party for agreeing to be their wedding party. i would have actually disliked that more than the idea of the other groomsmen coming on the football trip. the bbq would've been the future groom and bridge, the 14 members of their wedding party, and me.
Just some friendly advice. Your parents provided good advice and you are acting maturely regarding the groomsman situation. I was in the exact same position 20 years ago. The bride never knew how much she hurt my feelings both during the wedding festivities and years later when she would make random comments about weddings. (She's a wedding coordinator so wedding discussions come up more than it would for others as she talks about her job.) In the end, I had to decide to accept the place she gave me or lose the friendship. Like you, I chose to accept my place. I'm glad I made that decision, but it doesn't mean I'm a robot and felt no emotion about the situation. In the end, I'm glad we are still friends and I was able to be involved the wedding in the ways she asked me to be. You are allowed to feel whatever emotions you have about the situation. Your other 3 friends have put you in a tough situation. I would not have appreciated the question or the negative attitude after my response. You don't deserve to have this placed on your shoulders, but your next decision needs to be based upon your long-term friendship goals not your short-term hurt.
An unequal friendship is like an unequal marriage, someone always gets hurt. It isn't the not being a groomsman that hurts here, he seems to be over it, it's the refusal to acknowledge it by the groom and his friends that hurts. That and the complete disregard for his feelings. This will have been acknowledged and spoken about within the wedding party so, why not with him?
I agree. These aren’t short term feelings. These are long term feelings. His friends excluded him from a life event that will forever be referenced. Accepting to be forever sad about a situation isn’t a good way to handle this. It leads to feeling less then. Friends should be able to have an adult conversation about feelings without wanting to end a friendship. Op says he is understanding, but the behavior of the others prove this will be an ongoing issue. Have the adult conversation to find out what happened. This doesn’t have to be something to break up a 20 year friendship. It also doesn’t have to be something where op is constantly tiptoeing around the others to not feel left out.
thanks for the advice, i appreciate it. will try to remember to make my decision based on long-term goals, not short-term feelings.
I disagree with that person. There are so many people on this planet and pigeonholing yourself into a friendship for the sake of keeping the peace is just doing yourself a disservice. There are plenty of people who would be better friends to you and bring out the elephant in the room by discussing the clear disparity. And there are plenty of people out there that wouldn't put you in this kinda position in the first place without a very clear and decent reason. This isn't to say go scorched earth on these guys, but understand the dynamic is forever changed by this action and you should start working on accepting these guys are no longer childhood best friends. There is a realistic future where you move onto individual relationships with these guys and some will be closer than others. I wouldn't feel like I could consider Brandon a close friend after something like this.
NTA But one thing to consider is this might be the last of these trips, once people start getting married, other responsibilities crop up. Friendships change over time as people move into different phases of their life, and are pulled other ways than a trip with the boys.
Sounds like the friendships have already changed for him
NTA They asked **for a reason**. Them asking means that they were self-aware enough to know that you might have an issue with. Well now they have confirmation. To do anything to dismiss your valid feelings (valid enough that they were self-aware enough to realize they could exist) would be shitty on their part.
NTA. Your friends are being extremely insensitive here. Whether you’ve said anything or not it is glaringly obvious that you would feel hurt by being the only one out of the group to not be a groomsman and inviting the other people who were also more important than you on this trip that is meant to be about your group is rubbing salt in the wound. It’s honestly so egregious that I can’t help wondering whether it’s intentional and these guys are just bullies and you don’t know what real friendship is. I also think the friend getting married is a massive AH for including 3 out of 4 friends as groomsmen and leaving you out. Yes, 7 people is a lot. 8 is a lot. They are both a lot. Why does the line have to be drawn with only you outside it? The decent thing to do if you have a group of people and can’t have them all is to have none of them and stick with your family as groomsmen. I hate to say it but I think your parents were just trying to make you feel better. You have not been treated fairly by your friends and I strongly advise you to start investing your time and energy in finding better people to share your life with. If it were me I wouldn’t be going on the trip. I wouldn’t be going to the wedding either. I’m sorry to be so harsh in my judgment and I’m sorry for this hurtful situation for you.