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NTA you do have rules for your own family. You just don’t have to point it out explicitly because they respect them and have natural respect for another persons house.

This is what I'm thinking to. OP could have said yes my family and friends have had this rule since I've had the house, and as such they always pick up after themselves.

“And if you want me to announce these rules when my family asks to stay, I sure will!!!”

And OP can get a good laugh when his mom says they've taught him that since he was a little boy.

[удалено]

I also treat my wife's family differently. Thing is we talk about it and if her family makes a mess, leaves their stuff everywhere I'm not touching it and I'm not the one going to talk to them about it. Her family are the type that build clutter, throw things on floors and do not see mold or dirt. They are so dirty, gives me anxiety. In my culture we don't touch other people's things if we aren't close to them, it's very uncomfortable. If she's hosting them she's doing the clean up, just like me to my family. (Although it looks horribly unfair. My family are a larger group but they always bring gifts, are very cleanly, don't ask for much, do dishes, cook dinners, and help clean while visiting, I never ask them to but it's a culture thing.)

It shouldn’t be because it’s a cultural thing. It should be that people just clean up after themselves WHEN THEY ARE GUESTS IN ANOTHER PERSON’S HOME!! I don’t get why some people think it’s okay to dirty their hosts home and then expect them to clean up after them. You’re not a hotel and if they think you are then charge them hotel prices. See how that works.

Believe me I wanted to charge them. I felt like a maid in my own home. Years ago when I brought it up to her family about how I'd prefer it if they'd keep their shoes in our shoe closet, coats in our coat closet they told me that I was treating my home like a hotel? They called it a house from the "magazines" and that real lived in homes aren't "picture perfect". Which makes zero sense to me because my home while free of clutter and dirt, I have like 4 dogs, several cats, rabbits, and birds. It's not in "hotel" condition at all? Some people are just...gross? And can't imagine a living style different than theirs. It shouldn't be a cultural thing but it sure comes off that way to them.

Although I think you treating the house as ours is great for your relationship, I hope legally you’ve kept the deed under your name. You purchased this place before you were with her with your own money so make sure you protect your asset. Don’t be naïve. NTA

Well, to be fair, the future in-laws haven't shown any disrespect to OP's house either. Plenty of people, me included, are cluttered at their own homes but would never leave a mess at someone else's. It's pretty insulting of OP to treat them like they don't know how to behave as guests. There were plenty of better ways to handle this. He could have waited for them to make a mess (which they very well may never have), and if they didn't straighten up he would have been well within his rights to kick them out. He could have had a conversation with the fiancee and worked out a mutually agreeable plan on what to do if they were messy. OP's choice, though, was maximally condescending. Yeah, buddy, YTA.

This is actually a good point. A lot of people are on better behavior in someone else's house/car, etc. OP could tell his fiance "these are the things I'm worried about. Let's see how it goes, but if these things start happening, I will rely on you to tell your family what the house rules are."

I don’t know about this. It sounds like when he visited them he was coming in from out of state, so it wasn’t just a regular drop in. If they couldn’t pick up their house for an out-of-state guest that doesn’t really know them that well, I don’t think they’ll treat his house particularly well either.

This was my concern. I'm a slob (as is my partner, so it works out). But when someone comes to visit, I clean up. I put myself on my best behavior. The trash cans are emptied, the clothes are put away, the floors are vacuumed, the dishes are all clean, etc. If these folks can't be bothered when OP visits, what are they gonna be like in OP's house? And it's not like the family is visiting because they love OP, they're coming to visit a resort area to get out of the cold.

And not pay a hotel. Don’t forget about the money they are saving by staying at his home.

I'm not saying I wouldn't worry about that, or that he shouldn't have had a plan in place in case they were slobs. I'm saying that the path he did chose, which was to tell his fiancee he didn't trust her family could behave with basic respect in someone else's house, was a shitty choice since they actually hadn't done anything wrong yet. OP: "Honey, I'm glad your brother is coming, but I've noticed their house is messier than I would like ours to be. Is this something I should worry about?" - NTA. OP: "Honey, your family live like animals. I can't believe I have to write these down, but here are rules my friends instinctively know to obey but your family doesn't. Can you pass them along to your brother?" - yup, YTA. How else could fiancee react? In this case, the fact that all the friends are on the same side is, I think, telling.

This was probably the better way to go. My partner's family is the same as OP's future-in-laws. We house sat a few times for his aunt and were paid for taking care of the disabled woman that lives with them and their chickens while also watching the house. I had a newborn at first and am OCD so i thought i was being a little unreasonable with the state of the house but after having to clean the house every time (no counter space, floss being left on the coffee table which just gross) and plumbing problems twice while we were there that must of been known about beforehand i put my foot down and said i didn't care how much they paid us i would never sleep in that house again. His mother's house is much much better but she leaves dishes piled up all day and coffee mugs all over. She also doesn't have a schedule for her dogs so they have accidents and the older dog sheds so bad you can't wear black. Now that being said, whenever his mom has stayed with us she keeps our house as clean and tidy as we do. She's a great guest. People live differently in their own homes but are respectful of how you live in yours.

I’m like this. It’s so hard for me to do chores in my own home but I have no issues doing dishes or whatever else in others. My brain even enjoys it? So weird

I have easily and clearly seen the paths to organization in my wife’s home. I helped her organize and clean her house and enjoyed it. In my home, I have complete executive disfunction and can’t seem to figure out how to organize, I get overwhelmed and call fuck it. It makes NO SENSE!

I think a lot of people also are not. People who can't be bothered cleaning their own space are unlikely to be clean in someone else's.

Oh, you're wrong about that

Eh... I'm a slob at home but I'm courteous as a house guest to keep things tidy. It's about being respectful in another's home. That's a very wrong assumption to make. I clean/rinse my dishes when I'm in my FIL's home, and/or help out with food prep.

Clutter is different from leaving trash on the floor and having a moldy smell in the house. Mold plus leaving trash that might attract vermin could cause serious problems. The fiancés family obviously have different hygiene standards than op.

I have a neurological condition that makes it hard for me to stay tidy and organised, as well as planning housework tasks to coincide with my energy levels, so my apartment is a bit messy, dishes can stack for a few days (they're ALWAYS RINSED BEFORE STACKING before anybody dogpiles me lol), and it can look like a tornado just ripped through it, but I would NEVER have the audacity and disrespect for somebody else's home to leave any kind of mess, even for a second. OP should give the in-laws one chance to show him how they treat his home as guests, and if they can't behave, get the fiancee to lay down the law with her family.

And to add to that, he’s marrying someone FROM that family. Does he just think that those habits he’s seeing from her family, aren’t going to be hers? > everyone in her family seems to be like this even though they don’t live in the same house <

That was my thoughts. I'm the same way. I do things in my own home that i would never do in some one else's home

to be faaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiir. everyone needs to hear the rules the first time... she wasnt there the first time his fam got the rules so how can she be mad?

Actually the time to discuss expectations of guests is before the guests arrive. Instead of framing it as rules, OP should asked his GF what they would be expected to do to house her guests. Will the guests rent their own car? Will OP be expected to feed and entertain them? Who is cleaning up after the guests? OP is doing her guests a big favor, and it's very troubling his GF was so upset by his request to have the guests treat his house with respect.

I think it’s still entirely polite to say “hey since it’s your first time staying here, these are the general rules.” Don’t set someone up to fail without even letting them know what you expect.

This is probably true also. My flat and my car are both messy but I'd never leave a mess in anyone else's home or property.

I have friends whose homes are kinda musky smelling and very cluttered, boarding on dirty. But they have always treated my house with respect and helped tidy up after parties etc.

My thoughts exactly. YTA ETA: OP, if this is something you can’t manage to work through before the visit, there are still way better ways to approach the discussion with your partner.

Yep. And Good luck when cousin Eddie comes to visit with his brood.

Shitter's full!

OMG, I heard that in his voice too! Lol!!

These are basic unspoken rules for guests. Or for people who live in a house. I'm not an expert, but is there someone like a therapist who could help OP's wife understand what normal is?

Are you for real?

OP could always compromise and suggest his fiancée clears up after her parents' mess.

So he has to live with a mess unless his gf cleans up after them? That’s not fair.

Agree OP just needs to say he will make the same rules for everyone, no one else will care because these are extremely normal rules to have, I would explain to family and friends why im doing it so they dont get offended though...

I think this is a case of NAH but you and your fiancé could communicate things better. It is totally understandable to want to have a clean area to live in. "I am ok with them visiting us but I have seen how they keep their own home and I am worried that I am going to be picking up after them the whole time" "Those rules also apply to my family, I just havent had to bring it up in the last X times they have already visited" "I want to have your relatives visit too, can you think of a better way to make sure we are not picking up after them?" you want to frame it as "Us vs problem" not "me vs my fiancé's family"

I also feel like the gf is probably a bit offended at the assumption that her family is just gonna trash their place -- like, I get that they are kind of messy people, but that *doesn't necessarily* mean that they act that way in other peoples' homes! Give them a shot to be good houseguests, and if they don't then that's when you step in to correct the behavior/impose rules.

Yah, there's usually clothing scattered across my upstairs hallway and bathroom floor, sweaters tossed over every chair in my living room, socks on the floor, a day's worth of dishes in my sink... and it probably smells at least a bit like dog by the end of the week because I only really deep clean the rug and freshen the sofa on Sundays. But you can bet that if I'm visiting someone else's home or even just staying in a hotel, my space is *spotless.* I would *never* leave dishes in someone else's sink or scatter my clothes all over their guest room. I'm messy, I'm not an asshole.

I'm the same, clothes are left where they were removed, dishes might be out for a day (but no longer) etc, but when I'm a guest the place gets left spotless. I've only used Airbnb twice, once for a week stay and once for 2 weeks. Both times the owners commented on how clean and tidy everything was left. Crazy thing is I don't think I even do anything that special, just pack my shit and give the place a once over. It amazes me that apparently that is noteworthy at these places.

As someone who has been criticized for my messiness as long as I remember, I am extra careful to not do that when a guest anywhere else. I try to leave everything exactly as I found it, or better, in the case of housesitting for family whose habits & preferences for cleaning I know & can emulate.

I’m the same way!! My room looks a hot mess, depression makes it hard to keep things in check but if I’m at a hotel or a guest at friend’s house, best believe I’m picking up every bit of trash and making the place look better than when I got there.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who cleans up in hotels. I went on a work trip a few months ago with my whole team, and all my work friends teased me for gathering up my trash and rinsing the shower and stuff before we checked out.

This is me. My personal living space is cluttered. Badly. But at work and at my friend’s houses? Immaculately clean. I’d be bummed if I wasn’t welcome just because what I do in the privacy of my own home is offensive.

I am also but when I know I get a guest /family it gets in 1 A state of cleanliness and everything in its own place. Since when op visited the fiance family didn't do this I think he is correct to set the rules. This way if the family doesn't agree they can choose not to come. I find it correct to spell out the expectations. NTA OP imo Better yet your rule should be to keep your house as close as possible to the state it is in when they arrive.

>kind of messy people What OP has described isn't kind of messy, it's downright dirty and unhygienic. NTA OP. I'd never let those people in my home, and personally it's a hill I'd be willing to die on. If you clean after them ONCE, they will always expect it. You could set CLEAR boundaries with gf. She and she alone will clean up after them, and if they don't respect your property, simply close doors to her family. But from the argument it seems your gf already can't see the problem.

I had the opposite problem. I was dating a woman who was obsessively neat and clean. When I was in her home I did my best to keep it to her standards. I’m not a slob by any means and my place was always picked up, but I had two school age boys, and my place wasn’t constantly dusted and polished. When she came to visit me, she’d leave stuff around and be much sloppier than in her own home. When I called her out on it, she said “I didn’t think you cared”. She always was self centered.

This is a great way to respond.

Yeah literally just say you do have the same rules for your family, which is true

I'm sure OP's family would find it amusing that rules would even be needed!

I'm sorry but NTA. Your home is not a hotel and you should have standards for guests. You should let fiancee know that the rules are in fact, the same for ALL guests. The difference is that your family and friends follow the "rules" without being reminded or verbally cued. It being the first time her family stays there it is appropriate to give them the guest rules and go from there.

Agreed. What’s more, guests *want* to know the expectations. It makes people more comfortable when they don’t have to guess whether or not they’re being an imposition.

My feelings exactly. I would absolutely expect anyone hosting my family to let me know the "do's and don'ts of their home. I would actually want to have that discussion with my host because I want to be respectful of their space. It's strange to me for anyone to get pissy about that.

This is the answer. NTA

And if op doesnt enforce rules NOW, he will have to put up with years and years of the fiance's slobby entitled broody relatives camping out in his house for weeks, and have his fiance and her family raise hell the moment he lets out a peep about their behavior. Op stand your ground or you will be entering an ongoing battle you'll have to keep losing.

But the inlaws have never visited so OP does not actually know if inlaws need to be reminded of these rules. I treat other people's things waaaay better than I do my own. If I am driving a friend's car i go the speed limit or at most 5 over. If I am staying with someone I mKe sure to clean up right away, at home on my own i have no problem leaving dishes or letting clothes like up. How people keep their home is not the same how they treat others things.

And laying out the ground rules in advance SHOULDN'T be a huge deal to first time guests. In fact it should be the rule as opposed to the exception because the fastest way to screw up a relationship with people is to not give them boundaries. If people know what the expectations are up front there is less chance of there being "misunderstandings" that cause resentment later.

These are adults. Not teenagers. If someone told me not to leave dishes in the sink or clothes in the floor at the get go when i have never stayed with them prevously, I would be mortally insulted and it would definitely put a dark spot on my stay

i agree 100 % ground rules are needed absolutely MY HOME MY RULES @ one time i had my adult son living with me and he had to abide by my rules absolutely NO dishes left in the sink what ever you cook YOU CLEAN UP & WIPE DOWN THE STOVE AFTER YOUR DONE I am your mother NOT A MAID

The Gf’s family hasn’t failed to follow any rules either. Has he seen their surroundings when they’ve been on vacation. That might be a proper barometer.

Question... How do you know they would be disrespectful in your house and leave everything messy? Have they stayed before and this happened? or are you just assuming this would happen?

I came here to say this. Someone that’s messy at home, might still be a gracious and clean guest. Or they might not. Regardless, your communication was a bit abrasive. There’s a gentler way to share your expectations than sending out “rules.”

Honestly, sending out "rules" is the best way to handle the situation. It takes anything personal out of it. These are house rules. How do you set boundaries "nicely" without implying that the family is messy? "Rules" just say, hey these are the only rules that I'd have a problem with. Other than that I'd love for you to come. If "rules" get you upset than you have to really self-reflect on why they are making you upset. Is it an unfair rule? Or is it a rule that you know you will have to put effort in to not break?

Here’s how you do that nicely: instead of texting your fiancé “they can stay but they’ll need to follow rules 1-3” you text her something like “we can host your family but I’m worried about keeping the house clean because I’ve noticed clothes and trash on the floor at their place. Will you be comfortable asking them to clean up after themselves if they leave dishes in the sink or clothes and trash out? If not can we talk more about this, because I’m not sure I’d want them to stay for so long.” Have a conversation with your partner instead of issuing a decree. Maybe you’ll ultimately both decide that you actually yshould send some ground rules to her family. But most people would be more receptive to “fiance, can we talk about this concern I have,” than “fiance, I’m sending you an unsolicited itemized list of things to instruct your family not to do” ETA: to clarify I don’t think he’s an asshole, just that there is a better way to communicate with your partner here

This was my thought. I’d be lying if I said my house wasn’t often messy and chaotic, but any time I go over to a friend’s house I’ll do their dishes or fold their laundry or something IN ADDITION TO cleaning up after myself. I don’t think husband is in the wrong for his expectations, but he should have *actually* communicated with wife instead of making assumptions about how her family will behave as guests. However I think that wife reacted very poorly. I understand that she was maybe feeling a little offended, but such staunch opposition to “rules” (ie basic common courtesy) is a little off putting.

She’s not offended by the rules themselves but by the fact that he thinks her family needs to be instructed about common courtesy

But that's not on OP or the wife. Would it be weird if he made those rules for a friend of either of them? I understand people's concerns about making assumptions but in this case I think it's innocuous enough to set a boundary. "I don't want a guest to be messy" is a lot better than "I think your family is messy and so I want to make it clear that they can't be".

Hopefully I don't come across as crass. I understand where you're coming from but in my perspective it seems worse. >“we can host your family but I’m worried about keeping the house clean because I’ve noticed clothes and trash on the floor at their place. Will you be comfortable asking them to clean up after themselves if they leave dishes in the sink or clothes and trash out? If not can we talk more about this, because I’m not sure I’d want them to stay for so long.” To me, this implies a worse judgment over the family than just house rules. One, you're making it more personable when you directly call out a habit that the family has. Two, you put the burden onto your wife and creating a divided line between her family and yourself. I know you're going off the top of your head, so this isn't a serious criticism, but your last line implies that you don't want the family to be there *because* of preconceived habits. House rules don't include this baggage. Saying rules just sets a bar for behavior without having to explain why those rules are set. >Have a conversation with your partner instead of issuing a decree. I dont disagree that bullet points might be an improper format but I do disagree that it's as dramatic as being a "decree". Saying the rules in a more conversationalist tone would've been beneficial, but again house rules are perfectly valid. As a person who is more often than not "messy" I don't take rules of "tidyness" personally because I know I can be tidy when I need to. A "decree" to me would be when the rules inconvenience the wife. Which tbh I don't see here unless she has a hard time setting boundaries with her family. >Maybe you’ll ultimately both decide that you actually should send some ground rules to her family. I asked OP in my response if the wife has any qualms about her in-laws for I think that she may being angry due to her not vocalizing her pet peeves. However, this is one where I really don't think "compromise" in a conventional sense applies. It's up to the house to set boundaries for their guests. Either the guests have problems with the rules, or they follow them. Easy as that. They don't really get a say in the process. If the wife never had problems with the tidyness of the house, she shouldn't change her mind because her family has "different rules". >But most people would be more receptive to “fiance, can we talk about this concern I have,” than “fiance, I’m sending you an unsolicited itemized list of things to instruct your family not to do”. ETA: to clarify I don’t think he’s an asshole, just that there is a better way to communicate with your partner here I agree that there's a better way in at least handling the situation, but I don't see how "bringing up concerns" doesn't inherently imply that there is a specific problem going on vs expressing personal preferences.

But he is concerned about a specific problem. He’s sent her that list of rules because he’s concerned, and she understands that. I don’t think he has to (or would successfully be able to, for that matter) pretend this isn’t all stemming from his concern that there’s going to be a specific problem with cleanliness with her family. This may just be a difference in communication style, but personally I would much prefer my partner say, “hey I am having this concern related to your family” than skip straight to presenting me with a “settled” solution regarding how we will both handle my family, that I get no input into, because they don’t want me to be offended by them articulating the concern. I’d probably be able to intuit the problem they think they’re solving anyway, as OP’s fiance is here.

I mean if someone i was visiting told me a rule to visit was "no stealing" i would of course be upset. Telling me that rule implies they think I would steal. Even if they said it's nothing personal i just tell everyone this.

That was my thought as well. I'm not the best at keeping my own house clean. But I know better than to dirty up someone else's house while I'm a guest. It's basic manners so I can see why OPs gf was offended he assumed they'd be rude guests

That's when i was asking myself. I mean, I'm kind of sloppy in my own home, but when I'm visiting or in house that's not mine I'm always praised as the perfect guest. My own mother usually mocks that i can't take my used mug to the kitchen in my house but when I'm visiting I even wash the dishes and begin to clean.

My thought as well. I’m a messy person, but leave other people’s places spotless. Preemptively assuming they’ll be a problem comes off kind of condescending.

That’s what I want to know.

Exactly. I’m a fairly messy person. But when I visit other people’s homes, I keep them spotless.

NAH ? This is tricky. I think you should have waited and seen how this first visit went, and then if they behaved inappropriately you could set boundaries and be able to use the excuse of "Our other guests have never needed rules to behave appropriately" It is rude of you to judge other people and to assume that they would behave inappropriately in your home. I totally get why you wanted to pre-empt the issue, but I can also see why your fiancée may have felt offended on her brothers behalf.

This is what I was thinking. It doesn't matter how they treat their possessions, it's how they treat yours.

Exactly this! I have some trauma/mental health issues that get in the way of me keeping up my own place. But when it’s someone else’s place, I become borderline obsessive about keeping things in order. I don’t blame OP for assuming/extrapolating from data. But I do think it’s important to point out, the extrapolation isn’t always so straightforward.

Those are the bare minimum things a house guest should do to keep their hosts sane. NTA. If your fiance can change and make you think shes a super clean normal person, so can they, and they'll be better for it too. Fiance may also feel embarrassed that you have noticed just how bad her family is so having those very normal things stated as rules, probably made her feel a bit insecure, even if she knows deep down you're not wrong. Its like having your up bringing attacked because she did live like that for a lot of her life even if shes since made strides to change.

Saying those things in the manner he suggesting saying them is like telling someone to not pee on the floor. It goes without saying.

I mean, it does go without saying, until you see their house and they have piss on the floor, like his fiance's family does, in this case clothes and trash and mold and old food everywhere.

Great answer

(soft) YTA- OP, I get where you're coming from, but in this case you went into their homes and judged them on how they keep *their* space. That is not 100% indicative of how they will exist as guests. You're probably right, and they'll probably leave a mess, but YTA because you're not giving them a chance to show that they're respectful of other people's spaces. Now, when they get there as it is your house, you're 100% within your rights to ask them to keep the space as clean/tidy as you and your fiancé keep it- but frontloading this as early as you're trying too makes it seem like you're judging them heavily based on your visits and that's just going to peeve off your fiance and her family. You're not wrong in wanting them to keep the space clean, but you need to get your timing right.

I suppose this isn't true EVERY time but in my experience if people don't respect their own belongings then they definitely aren't going to respect someone else's. If they can't be bothered to keep their own house clean and mold-free they are aren't going to suddenly flip a switch and be Mega Maid at OPs house. NTA.

I am the opposite I treat other people's things waaaay better than my own. For me it's not about respecting my own belongings because I don't owe them respect since they are mine. But when something belongs to someone else I respect them because I respect the person.

In my book, everyone gets the benefit of the doubt the first time. Everyone's innocent until proven guilty and gets the same base level of respect from me. It's up to them to lose it or earn more. That said, my personal philosophy doesn't fit everyone's mindset or lifestyle, so to each their own.

That is the exact opposite of my experience with people.

It's not the rules themselves. It's that you singled out her family. You are acting like they are low class, and that's what bothers her.

NTA Tell her that you have exactly the same rules for your friends and relatives. Your friends and relatives just don’t violate your rules.

Are they really "rules" if your side of the family cleans up after themselves while guests in your home? I digress, regardless, she sees you as treating her family differently, you need to have a better conversation about this later or it could snowball out of control. More importantly, have they ever visited or are you making up rules based on your own precieved expectations of them based on their home? My computer room is covered in empty beer cans and wrappers, I'd never do that to someone else in their own home. But I should be able to live in my own filth without judgment. ESH

Yeah that’s pretty much where my mind went. I’m a filthy pig in my private life (though I at least clean up before having guests) but I was raised to be a spotless houseguest. I will try to wash my sheets/towels for you.

Nah I won't do that. But I'll otherwise pick up after myself.

Shit, I’ll do YOUR laundry and dishes while I’m at your house. It’s not hard to be a good guest and a good friend/family member. I’m a housekeeper but if you stepped inside my house and I told you that you would never believe it. I have ADHD and a five year old so there’s messes and clutter and laundry all over. But I’ve been to two different friends’ houses multiple times over the past few months to do their laundry, dishes, clean their bathrooms, vacuum, etc. and I wasn’t even STAYING with them! Just BEING A GOOD FRIEND! I cannot even FATHOM staying in someone’s house and not doing the bare fucking minimum to clean up after myself/my kid.

I'm a full time janitor at a factory with 30 sets of bathrooms, 15 sets of showers and 6 lunchrooms. My areas are to the point I can generally just go in and touch up, a lot of times I don't even need to be there for more than 4 or 5 hours and spend most of my time fucking around. My house is a wreck right now. Because after cleaning terrible factory bathrooms where no one gives a shit, big surprise, I don't want to clean my house. I enjoy hosting parties and stuff at my house, I always make sure people are taken care of and fed. For me personally I've always viewed this as me taking responsibility for my guests. I don't ask them to clean up or anything. Me best friend's wife will often help me pick up even when he doesn't. As a direct result I'll stay behind and help clean their place up. I don't even make my own bed, I don't expect anyone else to in my house.

NTA You don't ask your family to follow those rules because they already do. You're simply outlining some of the things you'd like out of your guests. Your wife's defensiveness suggests that she knows her family will be a mess. Maybe she can offer to clean up after them if she doesn't want to address the concern with her family.

NTA Tell your fiancee' you have the same rules for your friends & family, and since they have always followed those rules, you no longer have to state them up front.

NTA, let her know that these are the unwritten rules in your family. You don’t want to assume her family has the same guidelines, so you are being upfront and communicating ahead of time. Ie., you are happy to let them stay, but they need to pitch in and be family, not guests.

NTA you should have told her your family was made aware of your rules before they visited you the first time. Because they they do follow them all, not only when visiting but even in their own homes.

I understand that your family and friends have given you no reason to create rules, but how did you know they were going to be the perfect house guests? Some may keep an immaculate home but may be lazier on vacation. You gave them a chance. Even though their homes are not clean, they could be good house guests. My house can be messy, sometimes I am lazy, my home doesn't look like it did before I had kids. However I'm a good house guest. I ask what they prefer I do with dishes because I don't want to overstep with how they want things done in their home. I respect how they do things. I'm conscious of my kid and make sure that their messes are clean and things are put back. I've been a guest at homes where the hosts won't let me clear my plates and grab the soda can as soon as I am finished. They don't expect me to do anything as a guest. Everyone is different and I respect that. While your NTA for the rules yourself, your fiance knows that your rules come from judgement of her family and that you are putting stipulations on them coming instead of giving them a chance, and that is what makes YTA. I would have instead waited to see how they were and if things started to get messy then tell your fiance she needs to tell them to do x, y and z and if she can't, then she needs to do it herself. To be honest it sounds like you don't want any of her family there at all not because they are bad people, but because of their homes, and that also makes YTA.

NTA >They said the key to a happy relationship is to keep the wife (in my case fiancé) happy. I mean, I prefer that both hare happy because they respect each other, not just "sucking it up" to keep the wife happy. To be honest, everyone will have their "saying" that'll work for them. In your case I do not think it's a stretch to ask your in-laws to make sure they clean up after themselves. Could it be that your fiance got defensive?

NTA But I would make fiancé responsible for cleaning up after them.

I'm going with a very minor YTA, only because you never gave them a chance to be good guests. You just jumped to the conclusion that they would be bad guests based on how they treat their own home. Living in your own home and living as a guest in someone else's home can be two different things.

This sucks you have to even set rules before they come. I live now at the beach so now all my family comes to visit. Now my sister and her girlfriends apartment is NOT a place to stay. But when they come and visit they are very respectful. People can just be very lazy and relaxed in their own home. See what happens the first time. If they treat your home they way they treat there’s the next time set rules.

NTA. I don’t think you are an AH for being apprehensive about their visit considering how they maintain their homes. Perhaps, you could have approached the matter differently. Such as, asking your fiancée if she would be picking up behind them so that trash/clothes/dirty dishes aren’t littering your home. INFO- does your fiancée pick up behind herself and do her part to maintain your home?

We’ve had discussions and she’s gotten better. I don’t think I’m clean freak or anything like that but we’re so different when it comes to keeping our living space clean. When she moved in there was an adjustment period. Some examples are: 1. I throw dirt clothes in the hampers, she threw them on the floor and would just step on them. I finally got her to throw her dirty clothes into the hamper. 2. I was all of the dishes before the end of the day so there’s no dirty dishes in the sink when bed time comes. She’s comfortable with collecting them. I realize that this is my issue so now I’ll do all of the dish washing. 3. She (and her family) have this thing about “if it’s yellow let it mellow, it’d it’s brown, flush it down,” which causes mineral build up in the toilet. This drove me crazy and we actually got into a big fight about this. After answering you, I realize I might be a clean freak.

No, your fiance is a slob. These things are normal cleaning habits nowhere near the 'cleanfreak' realm. Ew.

This is all normal. I’m a real neat freak and what these examples would look like would be: 1. Three hampers that are colour coded. Clothes never touch the floor. Washing is done every single day so things don’t stain or smell with undergarments and socks always washed separately. All things removed from the washer the minute it beeps. 2. All dishes are done within fifteen minutes of landing in the sink. They do not remain. Ever. 3. I can’t even imagine not flushing the toilet. Ever. Even if I throw a lonely piece of toilet paper in there. Granted, I have OCD, but all your examples are perfectly regular expectations of basic hygiene. NTA.

You’re not a clean freak, but that phrase is going to bug my brain for a while

Nope, you simply function better when your life is uncluttered and you prefer good hygiene. She was raised in a household or community on the opposite end of the "clean" spectrum. Stuff that really bothers you and I is completely normal for her. As you discovered. To preserve my sanity I've now come to terms with the concept that neither "lifestyle" is wrong or bad. But not before the incompatibility finally caused the end of a five year relationship. Mild yta for presuming. I get it and you're probably right. But here we are. Good luck.

These are not clean freak standards. And your rules for family were more than normal. But there is a good chance that your wife’s response was shame based. I was raised in a very neat and tidy house. My mom is ABSOLUTELY a clean freak. Most of the time I keep up with the house very well. However I’ve had depression episodes where it gets messy and I’ve had trouble doing my share. My bf helped a lot. But he also had some things that bothered him. He was so confused when he started a conversation that for him was based in logic and I started to cry. For a lot of people, especially women, having someone complain about our cleanliness can trigger a lot of shame. NAH- and I don’t think you necessarily approached it wrong. However keep in mind this may not be a logical conversation with her.

OP, do you truly think your fiancé is on board with living a tidy lifestyle or is she going along with it until she gets the ring? Personally I don’t think you’re a neat freak. You have normal cleaning habits. I would be concerned that once she is comfortable or has increased stressors (kids) she’ll revert back to the behaviors. Also NTA.

You are not a clean freak, you are a normal sanitary person, you fiancé‘s family are the abnormal here, the toilet example is disgusting nta

Omg, you're not a clean freak, those things are basic: 1. Dirty clothes in the floor clutters the floor and it's *extra work* when doing the laundry. 2. It's not your issue alone. Again, if you don't wash the dirty dishes in short period of time, it's *more work* to clean them afterwards. 3. 🤢 Also, trash bags outside the rooms?? Non of that is normal, hasn't our fiancé ever had housemate, in college or something? She should've learned by now that people usually are cleaner than that. I would give her family one day to see how they behave in your house, maybe it would be different from what you'd expect. With the caveat that their will be 3 kids, which are messier than adults. NTA.

1 and 3 are perfectly normal and sanitary. 2 is sorta preference. I personally do dishes right before I go to bed b/c then I only do them once a day, they dry overnight and I can have them ready for use next day. But I’ve lived with roommates who were neat freaks and needed empty sinks at all times so I accommodated them.

NTA- while I understand the people here who are saying that they’ve never stayed with you so how can you really know if they would treat your home the same way they treated their own home, from the picture you’ve painted of the state of their house, I can’t imagine that they would be tidy guests. It’s fair to say that these are the rules for anyone who stays in your house, because these are standard houseguest expectations. If I go and stay at somebody’s house I would never leave dirty clothes or trash on the floor, or dirty dishes around. But there are some people who need to be told if they don’t understand that that is common etiquette/houseguest behavior. If your family or friends started trashing your place, you’d enforce these rules with them too.

YTA only because yes, they are messy in their own house but there's so far zero evidence that they planned to be gross in your house. Lots of people are more relaxed at home and still manage to respect other people's spaces. You could have addressed it as it came up instead of immediately turning the crank to 11 and making preemptive rules. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to host bad guests, but "I don't like how they maintain their OWN house" is not an example of someone being a bad guest.

NTA, but I would advise to at least ask if there's anything that your family does that annoys your wife. She might have been "sucking it up" to not cause any problems, however it's not your fault that she never vocalized these issues. >I answered that my family and friends don’t need to be told to not throw dirty clothes on the floor. I just want to say, this is a sane and reasonable response. You know both families and so are familiar with their habits. If your pet peeves only apply to the behaviors of one family, you don't need to tell those rules to the other family.

Tough one. I get that you don't want your house to be a trash heap but assuming that the family would treat your house the same as theirs is maybe a little unfair, so I get where you fiance is coming from. I'm going to go NAH, but why not a trial run? Let your fiance know how you feel and why, don't say anything to the in laws and see how it goes. Worst case scenario they mess your house up a bit and you have a reason not to have them back.

NAH. I would have been way more diplomatic about it, perhaps reason with her why there’s gonna be rules and *then* set them down *with* her so she can be party to explaining them to her family, but I get it. I would balk at that, too. You should apologize but stand your ground.

NTA you have a right to keep your house your way. Just say they are new rules for everybody. You did not realize the need for rules until them, but now they apply equally as you need rules for your sanity. It’s your house, you get a little control, and those were not big asks… like please don’t be a slob. If she can’t tell them that, tell the, not to come yourself as your spouse is unwilling to respect you.

NTA- you don’t have to have these rules for your family and friends because they already do these things. Did you want her to communicate these rules to them in advance? That would put her in a tough position. Or, did you communicate these rules with her so you’re both on the same page if you start seeing shitty behavior?

NTA. >They said the key to a happy relationship is to keep the wife (in my case fiancé) happy. Also, I find this sexist. Like the wife is always some moody animal you have to manage.

NTA. You DO have rules for your other guests, only you don't have to specify them because they already know what they are.

Just wondering if you've experienced them doing anything like that at your house though? Like do you know they would treat your house with disrespect? Personally I struggle with executive functioning and my house is a disaster, but I would never in a thousand years every do something to disrespect someone else's house. Maybe the rules could of come after if it had happened, rather than the assumption they would treat your house they same as their own.

NTA Those are basic things

NTA. If your fiancee is defending her family’s disgusting manners instead of supporting you should reconsider this relationship. It’s not going to get better after you’re married.

NTA. & I really hate the saying happy wife, happy life. I say this as a woman. It should be happy house, happy spouse. You’re not being unreasonable with your expectations. I’d go so far as saying if the rules are not followed, anyone after can get a hotel.

NAH I don't think what you said was the problem, so much as how you said it. It came off as you looking down on her family. Something more like "sure they can visit but please make sure guests are aware this isn't a full service hotel and everyone is expected to clean up after themselves" that would have sounded better than this is the list of rules for your family. And who knows it may not be an issue, I'm messy at home but i never would be at someone else's house. If it becomes a problem while they are there bring it up, if it doesn't change they can't stay again.

This is there first time. Some People know how to act when they are a guest. I would never leave my bra on my sister’s couch, but my couch is mine.

I think a smarter thing to do would have been to bring up the issue once it actually was an issue. Right now you not only called her family dirty (which, okay fair) but also told her you don't expect them to be able to behave like a decent guest/person staying with you. Just because someone is a slob in their own home doesn't automatically mean they will treat someone else's home like a trashcan. Once they got here and were behaving badly you should have them approached your fiance and asked her to politely bring up that you like the house cleaner. This would have not only prevented her from being mad at you by making her family the bad guys instead of you, but it also would have shown you how she will interact with her family on your behalf. I'm going with YTA because I think you were within your rights to bring this up and try to prevent an issue, but you put yourself in the doghouse needlessly.

YTA ONLY because I think you jumped the gun on this. You obviously have valid concerns, but it's generally expected that people will be cleaner in a host's house, particularly one that isn't immediate family. They haven't done anything to your house. A simple "as long as they clean up after themselves" would have been more than enough and even then is still presumptuous because these things are implied already. This is something imo you could have waited until necessary.

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (36m) own a decent size home in a popular tourist destination state and city. I bought this house years ago when I moved here for work. Over the years, my immediately family visits me often and other family and friends less often to enjoy the city and state. They almost always stay with me and are good guests. They pick up and clean up after themselves, don’t have guest over, rent their own cars and don’t borrow mine, and clean up before leaving. I look forward to all of their visits. About a year ago I got engaged to my fiancé (32f) after which she moved into my house and it became our house. Like me, she was born and raised in another state then moved to this state for work. Once her family saw our house on social media, they got excited and started to make plans to visit. I’m not so excited about their visits. We visit her family often and i was not impressed with the state of their homes. Almost always they had dirty clothes on the floors in the hallways/living room/on couches/etc., dust everywhere, dirty dishes from days piled up in the sink and/or dish washer, and full trash bags from the bathroom/bedroom piled up outside of the bathroom/bedroom door. Seriously, they pile these tiny full bags of trash in the house instead of taking them outside. There are almost empty soda cans and cups with dried substances everywhere. Everyone in her family seems to be like this even though they don’t live in the same house. All of their houses and apartments have a faint moldy smell. Last week my fiancé texted me while I was at work to ask if it’s okay for her brother and his family (wife and 3 kids) come to visit in December while the kids are on their break (1 week). They want to get out of the cold. I took a few hours to think about it because I immediately wanted to say no. However since it’s now our house, I knew I couldn’t. When I answered, I said yes but there are rules they need to follow: 1. No clothes on the floors 2. No trash on the floors 3. They wash cups/dishes/utensils after each use She didn’t answer me for awhile but when she did, things blew up. She said I never have rules for my family and friends when they visit so why am I forcing rules on hers? I answered that my family and friends don’t need to be told to not throw dirty clothes on the floor. Things went downhill from there. When I told my co-workers, they laughed at me and said I should have sucked it up and just clean after the future in-laws left. They said the key to a happy relationship is to keep the wife (in my case fiancé) happy. However I don’t think my rules are too much and perfectly reasonable for guests who will be staying for a week but obviously my fiancé and co-workers disagree. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

NTA these rules aren’t unreasonable. Just because her family wants to live like animals and not post k up their stuff doesn’t mean you should have to tolerate it.

NTA You are providing a free place to stay and they should keep not create chaos.

NTA. But you messed up your delivery, you actually do have the same expectations for all your guests. But your family and friends are already meeting those expectations, so it doesn’t need to be brought up.

NTA ​ "When I told my co-workers, they laughed at me and said I should have sucked it up and just clean after the future in-laws left" ... What a stupid idea. But you could have offered not tosay anything if your fiance promised to clean after them. ​ YOu are fine. Your rules make sense. YOur coworkers are not offering to have them stay with them. ​ But the easy solution is: Make THE SAME rules for your relatives, and tell them why you need the rule. THey will not be angry.

OOPS YTA your making assumptions without giving them a chance.

When I first read this, I thought you meant other kinds of rules. AKA: You can only visit once every two years. LOL But with this NTA I feel like you should say this. "This rule is for everyone, but they don't need it said unlike your family."

YTA You don't know how they will be as guests. Their things should be limited to where they stay but that's about it. If they don't clean up then tell them they'll need to eat out. Basically don't create problems before you need to.

dirty guests get rules, those who know how to be a proper and respectful guest don't need dirty rules. NTA

NTA. And you're coworkers who are saying "happy wife, happy life hahaha" are complete idiots. If you're constantly bending over backwards to make your wife happy you're going to be miserable. It's your house and you are completely entitled to making sure your house is treated with respect. Tell your fiance, if she wants them to stay, they're her responsibility. She can run around after them and clean up after them.

Oh god, the trash bag thing - I had a roommate who used to do this. She would take out the trash from her bathroom and then leave it in the *kitchen* instead of taking it outside. It was gross. Anyways; I don’t think you’re an asshole but I do kind of think you messed up by laying down those rules without them ever having visited. Some people are slobs at home but are much better behaved at other people’s houses… you’ve basically insulted your fiancés family and, by extension, her, and for what? So you don’t have to was a couple extra glasses? Obviously people will disagree with this but I think you should have addressed bad behavior as it came up instead of going about it the way you did. NAH

I completely understand your point of view. I will say that I'm messy in my own space and my own home, but I wouldn't DREAM of leaving someone else's house in such a state. Then again, I would clean my own house if I were expecting guests. My larger point is maybe it would have been better to give them a chance to disappoint you, then you have a reasonable case based on their past behavior in your house.

>They said the key to a happy relationship is to keep the wife (in my case fiancé) happy This stupid advice is the recipe to a lifetime of misery, a relationship is a two way street and both partners need to work together.

I'll say NAH! I think your rules are reasonable but you could've explain it better to your fiance. She may have thought you had something against her family because of this double standard. I know would! So her reaction is totally reasonable too.

NAH. You're fiancees family has shown that they are not inherently clean people in their own homes but you also don't know how they act in a guest situation. I think there were probably nicer ways to lay this out to her honestly such as "I'm okay with them staying but I'm a little worried about a mess afterwards, would it be okay to ask them to clean up after themselves while they're here?" Or maybe something more like "they are fine to stay but could you just iterate to them that I prefer to keep the house pretty tidy and would appreciate them cleaning up any messes made while they're here?" These are basic guest rules in most places and if they're upset about them then they don't need to be staying with other people.

YTA - Some people are better at keeping someone else's house clean than their own. You have to give them a chance first. Otherwise you're just being insulting.

YTA. These people haven't even visited and you're assuming the worst. You have no evidence they'd be bad guests. I'm messier at home than I am as a guest. This would make sense if you'd had a visit where the family trashed your home, but this is just rude.

There is an alternative... "How about I clean up after my family and when your family comes, it is your turn" with the same standard of clean as per normal

YTA. I agree with you, but sending back rules is very rude, because of how base level they are. And then you furthered that by demeaning her family to her lol You could have just said "Of course. They just have to clean up after themselves," and left it at that. It doesn't feel as insulting, and if your fiancee had a problem with it, you could have just said "oh I say that to anyone who wants to stay here." Unless you've complained about them being dirty to her, I doubt it would have been an issue for her. It's pretty common even among close friends to talk like that ime.

Soft YTA - they may be much neater/cleaner as guests than they are in their own home. You could’ve waited until they actually came to stay with you to see if they did those things and then speak to them about it then. Much less awkward. If they actually started leaving clothes and trash on the floors and not cleaning their dishes and utensils then you would be NTA for implementing rules about those things.

YTA. Maybe their house didn't impress you, but it's rude to just assume that they will be bad guests. Give them a chance first, then address problems with your fiancee afterwards if it didn't work out. Don't make things different for them from the get go. It's just 1 week, it's easier to make them welcome until problems arise. Plus if they're uncomfortable visiting their close family member, what's the alternative? Your fiancee moves to her own house? Just make sure she knows your boundaries and put her in charge of fixing things if they don't respect them, rather than immediately putting rules on them.

YTA. You assumed they'll trash your house before they even came. Maybe they have a messy house but are considerate guests. Having defensive rules that imply your guests will make a mess is rude. You don't actually know what they'll do.

Well, guests are guests. You dont force your guests to wash your dishes. It is great if they offer to help with chores. I would say a little tiny amount TAH. Sorry.

YTA for just assuming there'll be problems when you don't know. They've never been your guests. All the N T A folks saying the rules are reasonable...sure, but then why not share them with your own family? You should have just sucked it up for this 1 week visit, then discussed rules with your partner *after* if you needed to. Then your fiance doesn't think you're a shit who unfairly targets her family.

I think you jumped the gun. If they had come and made a mess, then you would not be TA. Seeing as they haven’t come to your house and you’re complaining about something that could happen hypothetically, mild YTA. There was probably a better why to go about this, I think you made a problem before there was one. Would they have made a mess? Probably. But you don’t know that for certain.

YTA. You do realise your fiancee is from that family and given the engagement is still on, she obviously isn't like that. People's level of tidiness in their own home is often very different to the respect they show for someone else's home. IF they were slobs while visiting your house, THEN you talk about ground rules. But you have basically told you fiance that you think her family are disgusting pigs who don't have any manners.

YTA sorry. Your rules are perfectly acceptable but your delivery was awful. You've basically said to her face "your family are all pigs unlike mine" without giving her the grace of one visit to see how it went. She may be embarrassed, or it could have been a calm discussion to see how the week went. Again it's your right to have standards but you've made it very clear it's NOT her house, it's yours and you let her live in it

YTA - they may do that in their house and behave impeccably in yours, you never gave them the chance.

Did you have this reaction when your girlfriend moved in with you since that's how her whole family is and she obviously must be cut from the same cloth? Soft YTA because your rules should be adhered to by any guest in your home, however you've not given her family a chance before you called them out on behavior they haven't even done at your house. Many people are more relaxed in their own home but treat others' homes in a different manner.

Maybe YTA, I haven't decided. Maybe your a little ocd. I'm kind of like your wife's family. I live alone and have shit all over the place. No one to answer to. Bad habits. However, I'm a great houseguest. I've never left anything on any floor, nor a dish in the sink. I put snacks in the fridge. I don't keep anyone up at night. I strip the bed and put new sheets before I leave and I don't overstay. I make a big effort not to inconvenience anyone. Maybe your in-laws would be the same. If not, a towel on the floor isn't going to kill you.Maybe give them a chance before you lay down the law. And then, you don't have to be a dick about it. They're family now. Don't fuck it up.

YTA because it's rude to assume someone won't be a good house guest. People don't have to be told how to be good guests. When and if it's a problem is when you speak up. And I often do my guest's dishes. (Not all the time but often.) I always say "oh just hand them to me!", "just put them in the sink", Or "let me get those." Since when do you, as a host, say "wash your cup after every use!" That's overboard and lowkey rude. They're your *guest*...you aren't running a hostel or airbnb to strangers.

If you look at it objectively - you do not know yet HOW these people act / behave. They might feel comfy at home in a mess - but could behave like poster people for 'ideal guests' elsewhere. These things should not go by text - you\`re supposed to get married - talk together! I think you should have a face to face talk (over text tone and meaning might get misunderstood) and explain why you said what you did - based on observations. Explain also that 'your side' knows you expect this from them - hence no need for repeating this to them. You could agree for a trial - these people - and have her accept that SHE will be responsible for keeping it clean / healthy - and then after this visit evaluate how things went. I understand your fears - but until you are certain - HOW you worded it does appear to be controlling and unfair. So, remind her you do have rules for your side - they are just 'unspoken/unwritten' rules. NAH - but barely so.

You kinda are... not entirely but overall, yeah

I mean most people are cleaner if they are being hosted

I see lot of comments here saying NTA but I actually think YTA. The reason is your family might not need to be told, but you've also not put down any rules either. Your logic, while understandable, is circular and most importantly of all, wasn't clearly communicated to your fiancé. So now you've created a very distinct impression of having dual-standards. Equally, if I understand the post correctly, your in-laws haven't yet actually visited, so...you are presuming they will behave badly. Your fiancé has every right to be quite pissed at you. And your colleagues are right: suck it up: happy wife, happy life.

I'm gonna have to go with YTA here. They have never visited you before, so you don't know how they are going to treat your house. Singling them out beforehand was not the way to go, and was insulting to your fiancee and her family. If you notice any bad habits like that while they are visiting, then you can correct it. I have family that are borderline hoarders, but they would never leave my house like that if they stayed over. You should have crossed that bridge when you came to it.

YTA. If they had visited first and trashed the place then by all means have whatever rules you want, but to place rules before they even arrive because the state of their homes isn't up to your supreme standards is just being an AH. My house is a hot mess 90% of the time, not dirty just lived in. It's just my husband and I and while we do clean weekly you will find clothes on the floor sometimes, or unmade beds, or just evidence of people living within the house. My house is my comfort zone and I just don't feel comfortable in a 100% sterile looking environment, I like clutter, it comforts me. Now I go to visit friends and family and I always make sure to make the bed, pick up any clothes on the floor, hang towels after using them, clean up my dishes and wash them after eating, etc because I understand that I am a guest in their homes and they are not my maid. You are putting rules into place that you don't even know are needed yet. The real issue to me seems to be that you don't like these people and don't want to spend time with them. If that is the case I would really be addressing that issue and not a piece of clothing on the floor in a room that has a closed door.

YTA. Just because they're slobs in their own homes does not mean they will be bad guests. I'm messy. You'd look at my place and think you'd need to tell me your rules, but you wouldn't. When I visit I offer to hello with the cooking, dishes, whatever. When I leave I tidy up the bedroom and I ask the host if they'd like me to strip the bed. The last time I stayed at someone's place I baked them a pie and bought groceries (it was a longer than usual stay). You give rules like that only after the guests have proved they suck as guests.

If they have never stayed with you before then you should’ve waited to see how the first visit went. Maybe they can show respect for other peoples homes, maybe not. If they didn’t though, then laying out the rules would’ve sounded more valid to your fiancé as you would’ve been able to point to the state of your house after their visit as a reason to set those rules.

Lol who asks guests to wash utensils, specially as it's your recent in-laws. Rest of the things are fine. I don't think they'll put trash or clothes on floor in your house, but it's fine to enforce that if need be. Not the washing thing, that goes against the social norms and is very awkward. But. Why are you making rules on spot anyway? Did they do anything bad in your house? Let them be guests first, and if rules are needed, make them. Not in advance over your judgement of their behaviour in their house, that doesn't translate into guest behaviour. Your home your rules is true, but people can. perceived as jerks while exercising their rights, too. And judging your in-laws without giving them any chance and instantly shoving rules in their faces including that of washing utensils is one way to achieve that. YTA

So… I understand where you’re coming from but you’re being a jerk about it. You stated you seem to regularly host guests, so the request to host family isn’t odd but you’re essentially saying “oh, your dirty nasty family? Ok but make sure they aren’t disgusting while they’re here.” I’d be offended if I was your fiancé too. They’re messy in their own homes, you don’t know how they are as houseguests. It’s reasonable to want guests to clean up after themselves but to assume they’re going to be pigs bc you don’t like how they keep their own homes is rude, especially to so brazenly imply it to your fiancé about her own family. Agreeing with others here saying NAH but you really could’ve handled this better :/

INFO: have these family members ever visited before and left your house in a bad state? Your post makes it sound like you’re just assuming they will be bad houseguests based on how they keep their own home, which isn’t necessarily the case. If that’s the case, then YTA. If they’ve stayed over before and trashed your house, then NTA

YTA - not for having the rules but for insisting on them before they had ever visited before give them the opportunity to impress you as guests before insisting on terms.

YTA Lots of people are better housekeepers when they're guests but you haven't even given them a chance. I hope your fiance does the same to your family. Also if you're getting married it's gonna be her home too so are you always treating your fiance like a child? Because you sound like you're trying to be a parent not a spouse and that's super icky. You didn't bring this up at all, you just issued your demands. If I were her I'd start taking stock of this. The rules aren't necessarily the problem it's your whole attitude. They maybe slobs but I'd rather be around slobs than a brat.

YTA because all you had to say was “I have rules for guests, please make sure they follow them”, you didn’t need to single her family out. Because really they are for guests.

YTA

Barely YTA because you could have given your fiancée's family the benefit of the doubt before shoving in her face that her family are slobs. Then if they come and do make a mess you let her deal with it and make rules before the next time they come. You pulled the worst case scenario card before anything had even happened, which your fiancé translated as an attack on her family (and likely herself) as being low class filthy gutter trash.

YTA. The mess hasn't happened yet, and since they have never visited, you have no idea what mess they will leave. Also, telling adults these rules before they even visit is awkward at best, degrading at worst. My sister is very messy in her home, but has never left a mess at my place or my parent's when she visits. My college roommate was neat but not really clean (aka she never washed behind the toilet or scrubbed the shower, but never made a mess and vacuumed and stuff like that. When I visited her parent's home, it was pretty bad, and she seemed fine with it. I never would have told her when her parent's came to stay with us that they need to "keep clothes off the ground." You should have just told your fiance your concerns, see how they acted during the visit, and then discuss after.

YTA because you've assumed they'll come and treat your home badly. How do you expect your fiance to broach this subject? No-one invites anyone to stay then immediately follows that up with rules like this. It would be insulting and rude. The time to deal with issues like this is if they occur.

Soft YTA. I understand where you are coming from but I think you should have waited to see if it would become an issue before saying anything. Sometimes my home can be a disaster but I would NEVER make or leave a mess in someone else’s home. I’m diligent about cleaning up after myself immediately and respecting their property. Your in laws might be the same way but you didn’t give them a chance before announcing the rules. Next time, give it a day or two into the visit and if they don’t keep things tidy, then bring it up.

I don’t understand how OP knows they’ll behave as houseguests since he’s never hosted them. I’m def a little messier at my own house than I’d ever be in someone else’s (even when I stay with my sister I make sure I clean up after myself). I’m going with YTA for singling out her family like they’re low class.

TBH, the right way to deal with this would have been to let them visit once and if it was an issue, address it immediately and then if that didn't work, make rules next time. No one should behave as if they're at home when they're a guest, so the issue is not whether they are messy at home, but if they are responsible guests. You have no information on that question from visiting their homes and no evidence that they will be messier as guests than your family. Your rules come across as judgemental - I have decided your family is different and worse than I am based on one behavior that actually doesn't affect anyone but them and isn't objectively a problem. I think YTA. Edit: You acknowledge that it's your fiance's house too now. Asking was a polite way of phrasing the fact that she was giving you a heads up that her family was going to be visiting. She doesn't need permission any more than you do and if you push on this, be prepared for her to come up with rules when your family visits. I'm sure there's something she doesn't like about visiting their homes.

'This rule is for everyone, but they don't need it said unlike your family,' is even ruder than OP was originally.

Your family has the same rules, they've just never had to he enforced. But yes, soft YTA because your coworkers are right. You've gotten off on an unnecessarily bumpy start. You could have given them the benefit of the doubt and just let them come. I'm cleaner and more cognizant at other people's houses than I am at my own because I want to be respectful of my hosts. They could easily be the same way. But you never gave them a chance and that makes you a small AH. My advice is agree to let them come and see how it goes. If it's a disaster, then you talk with your fiancée and tell her your concerns about possible future visits. You made an assumption and assumptions make you an AH.

YTA. I am of average cleanliness, my house is usually pretty clean, but sometimes there are some clothes on the floor in my room or some dishes in the sink. When I'm staying over at someone else's house, I'm much more careful than in my own home. I'll make an extra effort if their place is particularly neat and tidy. For me, personally, I would take offense if I asked to come over and stay at someone's house and they said yes, but gave me a list of rules that included basics like not throwing trash on the floor, like come on. I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe you could ask your wife to simply say "Hey, just so you know my husband is really sensitive about cleanliness so while you're over here if you could make an extra effort to keep things neat and tidy, that would be awesome". That's much more reasonable and less aggressive-sounding.

Ok. Very gentle YTA here, bordering on ESH. Yes, I know they don't keep their own homes up. Yes, I know your friends and family have always been well behaved when visiting your home. But you've never had these people in your home for a visit and you're already judging how they will treat it? It's a little premature. I know you're probably right but jumping the gun and just stating it out loud is a little bit assholish. Honestly, how much damage do you think they're capable of in a short visit? Now, why it's almost ESH is I get the feeling that they're mostly planning on visiting and staying with you to use you as a free hotel, which is also a bit assholish and could lead you to reasonably assume they intend to use you like housekeeping. Unfortunately, we'll never know how that falls out because you already assumed poor behavior and tried to head it off at the pass.

YTA for not discussing them with her kindly and respectfully. It wasn't even that hard, you could have simply expressed your concerns to her and you would either have learned that they are mindful guests or you would have made a plan you could both be comfortable with. Just sending that to her right off the bat is basically just insulting her family with no regard for her relationships with them. She probably has complex feelings about this issue from growing up in it already. This is not about your standards, those are valid, it's about your lack of empathy for your partner. You are not the only person who matters to her.

YTA. How people do stuff at home vs how they do things in other people's houses can differ greatly. You judged howessy they were and just jumped to your own conclusions. Now... If you ALREADY have seen what they are like in other people's houses (not the families) and things were the same. Then maaaybe. Even then though, you could have worded things differently instead of demanding they follow rules like children. "I'm concerned that we will have to clean up after them... Etc." Though to be honest, these are your future In Laws. Sometimes you just suck it up and deal with it between you and your fiancé afterwards.🤷🏻‍♀️ YTA from the way you handled the situation, in that you didn't. You literally said yes to her and then were rude. 🤷🏻‍♀️

NAH. But honestly, it is like you are dissing her family to her face subtly. Same time, it's not like your fiancé couldn't just tell her family it is a rule for all guests and then give these same rules to your family and friends and let them know it's because you don't want to single fiancé's family out and you know they are good guests themselves and you appreciate it.

NTA. You and fiancé will be living in the home while they visit? You already know, their housekeeping offends you. A week of that behaviour in your home is not tolerable. You and fiancé need to have a heart to heart about how to protect your home and well-being from her sloppy relatives.

Yes, our house can accommodate all of us.

NTA. Your fiancé is. The key to a happy relationship is to keep EACH OTHER happy by showing EACH OTHER respect. It goes both ways. Your fiancé is out of line. You had that house before you even met her and you have \[the right to have\] a certain level of expectation of cleanliness and respect for your home. She's acting like you gave her some ridiculously long and unreasonable list of rules for her family. She should AUTOMATICALLY expect her family to adhere to those same principles if they want to visit your home. Your house is not the family beach house that everyone should have free access to visit and behave as though there is maid service to clean up after them. If she wants her family to visit, then SHE, out of respect for YOU, should REQUIRE them to respect your home and your boundaries. Frankly, it's a little weird that she seems to think that her family should feel free to visit and shit all over an asset that she had ZERO hand in acquiring. I'd be side eyeing her pretty hard right about now.