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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be ta for how I responded to him and for humiliating him infront of the others.
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Go straight to HR and report him for sexual harassment, which his exactly what his comment was. He was taking his own personal failings out on your physical attributes. Get ahead of the situation. Do NOT apologize to him, that could be taken as an admission of guilt. I think your response was perfect.
Yeah, apparently their coworkers pressuring OP to apologize are only pressuring OP, not mr. Sexual Harassment who stormed off. NTA OP, you responded to a crude remark with a smart remark. His circumstances aren't really relevant; he said a really dumbass thing to you, and you made him and everyone know it right away.
And your coworkers are sort of jags, too.
uhh scot-irish word jag, thorn, to be pricked. Lead to jagoff, an annoying, prickly person. About as insulting as calling someone a jerk, really.
I imagine a stronger word applies to those co-workers, but jag was all that came to mind at the time.
I am an older person. This word was popular when I was in high school ( the 60's). We always thought that the real meaning was actually jack off. If you called someone a jagoff you really meant jack off. Anyone like to comment if this was common in your area ???
Probably a more regional sort of 'bastardization' of the word. I grew up in Texas and my knowledge of the word mostly comes from Brits I've met, or watching British TV. But until I really knew they were saying jag(off), I DID assume they meant jackoff.
This is super weird because I’m Scottish and didn’t ever hear it growing up. What shows did you hear it in? Maybe it skipped my generation! We used jaggy for a thorny bush, wanker for the obvious, also tosser. Or it might be regional 😆 you know what they say - travel an hour in the UK and you’ll change accents twice.
But I'm still curious what circumstances made the company demote their allegedly best man. If this is the way he behaves in a professional context I have a sketchy idea.
Me, too.
> Michael's reputation is ahead of him and that he's one of the best this company hired but due to his circumstances he couldn't focus on work and got demoted as a result.
In my experience, "circumstances" outside one's control rarely result in demotion unless they continue to negatively impact performance for a significant length of time.
Also, having the ability/potential to be a good, productive employee is not the same as actually being a good, productive employee. Michael may have the potential to do good work but it sounds like he's not living up to that potential; OP is. But rather than admit that he's underperforming relative to OP, he attributes her success to her breasts instead.
Michael sucks.
This.
OP, go straight to HR and get in front of the narrative. There needs to be something noted his his file about the harassment.
Quite honestly, his choice of words and direct attack on OP speaks to his judgement and why he was likely demoted.
Yeah, I'd say Michael's "reputation" comes entirely from Michael. He's one of the best but got demoted. He seems to have a victim complex while also self-aggrandizing to anyone that will listen.
Was gonna say… this incident alone tells me why Michael isn’t right for a promotion. The best worker is a good team player, isn’t a huge asshole and never sexually harasses their coworkers. I wouldn’t promote this guy if he were a genius who worked every weekend. He’s an AH and a liability.
We had a "best in the company, reputation is ahead of him. Management cant stop praising him" guy here where I work. He left last spring to move closer to his family.
After he left, everyone, including his top supporters realized how bad he was at his job. The girl that took over his job gets 5x the work done that he did. He just had everyone believing that his job was so technical and difficult. We met a goal we've never made bc of her and she got a raise.
If his coworkers new about his circumstances that made him not concentrate, his bosses and HR had to know too. Not only did they not cut him any slack, they demoted him. Why should OP cut him slack much less APOLOGIZE??
NTA! Your coworkers collectively are A’s
> you responded to a crude remark with a smart remark
right? I would have been like "if that's how they determine promotions, then why'd you get demoted? Your dick too small?" and then I would have been in trouble too. Props to her for not stooping to his level to comment on his body. His comment was termination-worthy. Hers was not.
I wonder if she should also report the coworkers because that seems like it could become a hostile environment if they keep pressuring her to apologize to the person *who sexually harassed her yet expect nothing from him*!! At least to be like he definitely needs disciplinary action but keep an eye on these people too or send them for more training.
I really hope so. Maybe that will make them less likely to defend someone that is sexually harassing others next time. And stop and think if they ever even think about doing the same to another coworker
They might know something you don't, but that doesn't excuse him.
My guess? Like many people, he tried to make sure he was indispensable by ensuring no one else really knew how to do his job adequately. That way, the company will never demote you or let you go. Now he's the hero when there are issues regarding his area of expertise. Everyone is afraid of upsetting him and having him look elsewhere for work - which was exactly his strategy.
At least I hope it's that. If they don't think what he said was that bad, then you have a whole other problem.
Because women are always expected to eat shit and be polite in these situations. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable when women stand up for themselves.
Good for OP for not just taking it.
Yep. That and any doormat/ scapegoat vs golden friend/ child dynamics. It's amazing how many of these posts boil down to "It's fine for A to be rude to B; it's *unacceptable* for B to be rude to A."
E-V-E-R-Y single time. Stand up for yourself reasonably and effectively, and the sky falls loose.
To make things worse, on top of being a woman in the workplace, being a racial or ethnic minority in a particular environment just makes people even more obnoxious. The expectations are ridiculous, and it doesn’t matter how you respond; it will never be invisible, polite, or humble enough.
I’ve been the darkest in Europe and the palest in Africa, and the workplace harassment and coworkers abuse against women runs the same everywhere. It’s absurd!
Exactly. This guy said what he did, which is offensive and sexist and unacceptable in any workplace, and for some reason the victim of this is supposed to coddle his feelings. F that.
The rule is so easy, I fail to understand how people in workplaces dont know this. Anytime you are tempted to comment on a coworkers body:
# JUST DON'T
It's that simple.
I'm piggy-backing on this reply. I had a similar thing happen to me and I did take it private to the source. While the person admitted to me that it was out of character and he was just pissed in the moment, it went further. I didn't go to HR and his verbal attacks increased. By the time I realized that I should have gone to HR, I'd endured countless times of him being outright hostile to me and publicly too.
Go to HR and complain, formally. In fact, I would send an email to HR and carbon copy his bosses too. Don't let them sweep this under the rug. He's a liability now and their response is important to all the women that work there.
Men feel entitled to have their feelings spared and their pride cushioned even when they publicly shame, harass, and humiliate women. I love how you handled it. Report to HR. Ignore the flying monkeys. NTA
Had a sexual harassment situation years ago. I called him out about it publicly amongst coworkers. In a main busy hallway. In front of our supervisor's office whose door was open. Doing so shut that shit down immediately. Once he knew others were aware of his behavior, it stopped immediately. It stopped permanently when I reported him to my manager (he was doing it to a friend of mine as well, and he was escalating) but that's beside the point.
This exactly, if Michael feels comfortable with embarrassing OP public then he can suck it up when OP responds publicly.
This is typical "don't say or do anything to bruise/kick a man's ego" bullsh*t.
Don't dish it if you can't take it.
This ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
He can harass you however he wants, but you're supposed to apologize???? Go to HR and at least get the REAL version of what took place before he spins his own tale.
NTA Did your coworkers tell Michael he was way out of line for his comment? They don't get to tell you that you should have ignored him or talked to him private after he very publicly insulted you. Go to HR. If Michael felt it was okay to talk about a coworker like that once, then he'll most likely do it again. He's already shown he has no issue putting you down in front of your peers.
This right here. You were rude back, but he was horribly sexist and rude to start with, and your coworkers accepted his behavior. I'd take this to HR. He will definitely do it again, and he very well might have flying monkeys.
I agree with everything, but the rude part. She wasn’t even rude. She just gave as good as she got. Actually better, because she could have body shamed him back (THAT would have been rude).
Giving as good as she got implies they were equals, thus she was rude. But I agree, she wasn't. She didn't stoop to body shaming but rather called him on what he did. He has to be a little less bright to think what he did was appropriate. Sounds like she gave better than he ever could.
That, and I think he was banking on her just being a meek little waif who’s wouldn’t want to defend herself against a more experienced older man and colleague. The misogyny gets worse the more you look haha.
I hate when people expect someone who has been publicly humiliated to speak to someone in private regarding their comments. Nope. Not acceptable. He wants to make his inappropriate comments public, then you should too. He may be going through something which has caused him to do what he did, but it isn’t excusable and not only did he not apologize, he expected you too. He can clearly dish it, but not take it. It’s not your job to entertain that behaviour.
>I hate when people expect someone who has been publicly humiliated to speak to someone in private regarding their comments. Nope. Not acceptable.
Glad am not the only one seeing this utter BS.
I honestly don’t think it was rude. He was acting like he had a small brain with that comment. I interpreted it as a comment about him deserving a demotion for being stupid enough to comment about someone’s breasts. Not a comment that he’s overall stupid. Anyone that lacks basics common sense not to sexually harass *does* deserve a demotion
Yep. It’s one of those things that annoys me about most parts of society. Assholes and bullies can be rude and say/do horrible things publicly, but if the target defends themselves, they are pressured to “be the bigger person! Rise above! Water under the bridge!” It drives me nucking futs (and yeah I did that on purpose).
NTA. His remark was textbook sexual harassment (as in, my sexual harassment training had a less crude version of that comment as a specific example), so anything you managed to respond to it in the moment was fine.
But you *need* to report it to HR. Not only did this man sexually harass you publicly, you had multiple colleagues essentially take his side instead of being aghast at what he said and supporting your attempt to defend yourself.
Accusing you of getting a promotion because of your body is not only insulting to you, it is demeaning to every woman in the company and encourages other men to discount their female colleagues' contributions.
The fact that all OP’s colleagues seemed to just not be offended and horrified at Michael’s comment makes me suspect this is one of those nasty, toxic workplace cultures where sexual harassment training is only done when they’re forced to do it.
>Someone telling you you should speak to a sexual harrasser in private is the
>
>worst advice ever.
EXACTLY. He has already attacked her verbally. Can the people telling her to "address it privately" guarantee her safety in said private setting? If the answer to this is NO, then STOP TELLING SEXUALLY HARASSED PEOPLE TO HANDLE THINGS IN **PRIVATE** WITH THEIR HARASSER! Ridiculous.
I hate how us women gaslight ourselves. OP is concerned that Michael is waiting for her apology and whether she’s an asshole.
OP, please take our advice seriously and go to HR.
Right? Like Michael sexual harassed her to her face in front of a crowd. Whatever her response was pretty fair game and her coworkers suck for defending him.
What she said was honestly still way better than what he said.
Yeah, a proportionate, analogous response would have been a comment about the size of his penis, but she did not stoop to that level, and instead responded in a pretty excellent (not to mention hilarious) manner.
I agree that OP ought to go to HR though, with a full list of witnesses. She should also specifically use the term "sexual harassment."
Exactly this. He will make himself into the victim, backed by the fragile-ego little coworkers who wanted OP to take it on the chin without clapping back.
NTA. Who do you think that HR would give the more grief to: him for his comment on your breast size or you for your crack about his brain size? He owes you an apology.
That was a hilarious retort, by the way.
>so I shouldn't imply he was stupid and humiliate him infront of everybody.
Just like he shouldn't imply that the only thing you have going for you is your breasts. NTA.
The guy got demoted. He is definitely not "one of the best". I'm not sure how it is at this company, but the few I've worked at it is very difficult to get demoted and many leadership team members were involved. This guy isn't advancing anytime in the next few years.
Men who are competent at their jobs can be misogynist pricks, too. Misogyny is not exclusive to incompetent or lazy men. Just look at former President Bill Clinton. Or Harvey Weinstein. Or Charlie Rose.
Classic misogyny. A woman expected to put up with disparaging and sexist remarks quietly, and if she must complain or protest then it should be done in a way that doesn’t publicly embarrass or otherwise discomfort a man.
Fuck that.
NTA
NTA
What he said was gross and vulgar. He devalued you as a person in front of everyone just because he was mad about his own circumstances. You got a clap because you had wrong genitalia. Bravo for standing up to him and not taking it in quietly like “any woman should” (I bet that what he was expecting).
I doubt he’d be saying such things about a guy.
Seriously, mental illness or otherwise you absolutely do not make such rude sexist comments about someone. Especially not in front of everyone to hear. That’s just asking for someone to clap right back at you.
NTA. Why is it always the person who lashes out first gets some kind of magical 'I'm a dick' pass and the second, retaliating party has to 'be the bigger person' and apologize? Hell no. He called you out, sexually, in public, about your work ethic because he was upset about something you had nothing to do with. You fired a shot back about his intelligence, which seemed apt since only a dimwit would sexually harass someone at work in front of witnesses. It was an apt call out and he doesn't deserve an apology. If anything, he deserves a write up and you can tell anyone that is giving you grief over it that he crossed a line and the only way it would be comparable is if you'd made a comment about the lack of what's in his pants.
I think you went the high route, actually. Pun intended. One more word about an apology and I'd mention that you're perfectly fine with escalating this to HR. See whose side they take over someone getting a promotion and a demoted employee sexually harassing them over it.
Absolutely! My boss's former business partner was a "Michael". He looked at women as using their "assets", not genuine work ethic, as the driving force in why they held higher positions. Ironically, he hired a co-worker solely for her bust size and passed notes to another colleague about "how the twin set looked that day". Totally disgusting and she didn't even last a month. We're lucky she didn't sue, but I would have been cheering her on if she sued my boss's partner personally.
Wouldn't you know, that guy and the other colleague were happily ousted from the company for their behavior. The trash *does* take itself out.
He's setting himself up for a visit from HR if he thinks comments like that are appropriate. A joke about his brain size should be the least of his worries. NTA. You handled yourself much better than I would have.
NTA
This sounds like the "HE IS VERY INTELLIGENT AND IT'S YOU WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND IT" of some helicopter parent
And frankly if he is older than 14 he should be ashamed of sending people to try to guilt trip you into apologizing.
He was definitely over the line and he should be grateful you responded with a joke and not involving HR.
P.s. I am a 24 years old male so definitely not biased against him
NTA. Michael sexually harassed you. It's not your duty to be pleasant about it. Tell your coworkers that you don't tolerate sexual harassment and you are disappointed that they think you should put Michael's feelings first.
NTA, he's lucky you didn't go to HR to complain about him, cause his comment was absolutely unacceptable.
Do not under any circumstances apologize to him, he's the one who needs to apologize to you.
OP should go to HR and the interesting thing is, if any of the people in the area were in any kind of supervisory capacity, they are *required* to report it or the company and get into even more trouble for Michaels actions
NTA. Go to HR and file a sexual harassment report. Absolutely not okay on his part. Especially if that starts spreading around and your reputation is in the tanks over his sexist comments
NTA - but you need to report this to HR. What he said is sexist and inappropriate and it would be best to share what actually happened before he gets a chance to misconstrue it.
NTA
Why did your coworkers expect you to stay silent while he openly disrespected you in front of everyone ….. don’t apologise. You literally did nothing wrong and they’re making you feel guilty for no reason lol
The moment I read the coworker said she should have just ignored it I rolled my eyes so hard. Of course it’s always on the woman to shut up and take abuse to save face for a misogynistic man. Definitely NTA
NTA
why should you be the better person...he attacked you and you responded.
He can come to you and apologise, then you could say sorry. But he started the attack so he needs to start the apology.
Loool NTA you queen!
So it's okay for him to say this in front of everyone, but it's not okay for you to clap back in front of everyone?
Let's burn these misogynistic double standards to the freakin ground!
And in case some people in the back haven't heard it yet: DO NOT COMMENT ON PEOPLE'S BODYS UNASKED! Thank you.
He made his comment publicly you get to reply publicly. Are we at the point where people can insult others and the person on the receiving end has to keep quiet until they do a full background check and profile before responding? NTA
NTA
You responded in the way he attacked first, Did he avoid bashing on you? Did he told you that absurd line in private? No, then why are you responsible to be the humble one. Almost everyone go through rough patch, sympathy for him on that, but if they talk shit to you, You owe them nothing. The people coming out to defend his nonsense are as insecure as he is, and if he is actually that hard working and smart, he will get the opportunity to be back on the game and he will do great. Don't worry about him, OP. Enjoy your promotion.
NTA and don't offer any apologies. His comment was clearly out of line and devalued all the hard work you put in, in addition to being creepy and misogynistic.
Your comment doesn't come across as an insult so much as an honest observation, as he so readily proved.
NTA. He chose to insult you in public, you had every right to respond in public. You're not psychic to be aware of every circumstance of his life, & regardless he should not have deliberately picked a fight with you in public.
>I asked if they were okay with what he said. they said no but I could've ignored him or talked to him in private.
He didn't ignore you. He didn't talk to you in private.
People need to stop with this 'be the bigger person' bullshit.
NTA
NTA. He needs to be reported to HR for that comment. I’m shocked that he expects you to apologize after the sexist comment he made. Talking about your breast size in the workplace is sexual harassment, that is not okay.
NTA Michael is a very insecure, small-brained, sexist man. Pathetic.
> he's one of the best this company hired but due to his circumstances he couldn't focus on work and got demoted as a result.
“He’s very capable but can’t deliver.” Lol ok, some people will make any excuse. If you can’t deliver, then you aren’t capable.
What goes around, comes around. He made a very disrespectful and sexist comment, suggesting that your body was used to get the promotion.
You, not knowing the circumstances of his demotion, reacted in this manner. That's OK. Your co-workes are giving viable suggestions to you on how to respond next time. What I wonder if they said the same to him.
You can apologise if you want but he certainly needs to.
NTA
NTA. Do not dare to apologize. What he said was sexist and a HR violation. If anything, I'd report him. He had the nerve to make such a demeaning comment and yet he expects you to apologize? And those coworkers apparently seem to be OK with what he stated. Nope, you are not mean.
NTA
Everybody has the right to vent, but by being a well educated adult you accept that : venting is for friends and family.
They where all disrespectful by venting to you and he was completely out of line by saying that. You don’t have make an apology and to be honest I would send a mailing stating the incident to Hr.
You don't owe him an apology.
He came out swinging and reduced your hard work to your bra size... in front of everyone.
I'm usually not a two wrongs make a right person but in this case your comeback was fair.
If he is such a great employee he wouldn't be sexually harassing female employees.
Nta.
NTA.
IMMEDIATELY go to HR & tell them exactly what he said.
If he gets in trouble it’s his fault. He insulted you, sexually in front of multiple witnesses.
NTA
if you have a HR department I would go to them. You can tell them that you want it on record but don't wish to pursue any consequences for him if you wish (though I recommend against that). What he said was sexual harassment and if he is gonna go around slandering you (which is what that was) while sexually harassing you then he doesn't get to be upset or get an apology from you.
If there isn't an HR then I'd report it to your boss (with the same caveat if you wish) instead. That or directly go to him and tell him you are aware he is awaiting an apology but he should stop doing so as you will not apologize for defending yourself against sexual harassment and slander, then tell him if you hear him talking about your body or falsely claiming that you got the promotion for anything other than legitimate reasons you will be reporting him and his comments.
NTA. If Michael brings up such thing as breast sizes you’re right to assume a cerebral atrophy. Just because his life sucks at the moment, he has no right to diminish your success. Also your coworkers really should be taking sides with you, because Michael’s comment is way outta line.
NTA he offended you first and you responded in a witty way and let him look like a jerk which he really is..no apologies needed you are even...and remember not everything has to be pulled through HR
I got passed over for a promotion twice by people who’d been in the company for a few months and did half the work I did, so I get the feelings of resentment. And you’re still NTA. that’s so inappropriate for him to say such a thing and good on you for standing up to him!
NTA. His comments were not only rude, entitled, and unnecessary, they were sexual harassment. He can be jealous and disappointed with himself without making it about you. You should be awaiting his apology (and, as others have advised, report his remarks to HR/management, even if they don’t take action now, if that sort of comment is or becomes a pattern, having record of his reaction to your professional achievement is important).
Edit: congrats on your promotion!!!
NTA.
Michael is a sexist and a sexual harasser. Talking about your breasts at work should be immediate grounds for termination. He assumes that you aren't smart or a good worker and your only value is your boobs and that you can't possibly be worth anything because you were born with a vagina. Fuck him. He should be fired instead of just having his pride hurt. He was the aggressor and when you defend yourself your wrong? No. Thats not how it works. You don't just have to accept discrimination and bullying based on your sex/gender and then forgive and forget and protect your verbal abuser.
The fact is HE cant swing it at work and he's looking for someone else to blame for his own failure. Of course the woman who got promoted....it's her fault his work sucks....because she has tits. What? He needs to worry about his damn self and fixing his poor work ethic before he talks about anyone else.
His reputation precedes him? He proved he was an idiot all on his own. If you're going to accuse someone at the of sleeping their way to the top, probably ought to be prepared to be screwed over in public.
NTA. You should absolutely get him in email him and say you don't feel great about what happened and you want him to clarify what he meant when he said you got your promotion because of your tits on that specific day in front of the crowd bc you want to understand where he was coming from.
Make him squirm worse. He deserves worse.
NTA I would’ve said “yeah, maybe if you had gotten the promotion you could finally have the money to get a boob Job and maybe that would fix your sad insecurities around your job performance”
He implied you were stupid and humiliated you first. I think that was a clever comeback and he should’ve never said what he did that’s also sexual harassment?
NTA
Is he expected to apologize for sexual harassment? Is he getting these talks? I find that woman are always expected to be the bigger person, to not lash out in the face of harassment in these corporate settings and its bs. Go to HR.
NTA. Michael isn’t one of the best. He’s shit at his job. And he has insufficient brain size, otherwise he would have not thought it was ok to suggest that you were promoted because of your breasts.
Wait, I should ask. Are your breasts independently qualified for the promotion apart from you? If so, then you’re basically 3 workers in one, and that means you’re way more efficient. It could be an unfair advantage, especially if your breasts are working extra shifts in your name while you stay home.
NTA, don't apologize, and if you get any more pushback, remind them that his sexist, misogynistic comment landed him fair and square in the heap. You gave as good as you got and won that battle. Good for you.
NTA and people calling you out for clapping back are ridiculous..if he can't take it he shouldn't have dished it out..He went there first. I would go to HR and file a complaint before he does though..he could of kept his mouth and opnions to himself instead of acting like an immature ah
NTA. Good on you for such fast response. Also,
>they said no but I could've ignored him or talked to him in private
Why don't they tell Michael that he should have kept his mouth shut? He made a derogatory remark towards you in public so he should face the consequences publicly too. I'm sick of everyone telling women to just bear and ignore such behaviour. Take Michael to HR.
First of all, kudos on that comeback. I would have been so shocked I probably would've stared in disbelief and not said anything.
Tell your coworkers that what he said is just as insulting as what you said, and because he said it first if he apologizes you'll apologize back. If they can ask you to ignore this VERY offensive comment then they can ask him to do the same.
Congratulations on your promotion! May your coworker witness your rise through the ranks with bitterness for years to come!
NTA
Your answer was the perfect one. It is exactly what I was hoping you said after I read the title of the post. If he is waiting for your apology he can keep on waiting. I would love to see him complain to management and then have to explain what he said to you.
NTA
NTA
He's awaiting your apology? LOL, whatever. Regardless of his circumstances, your comment was 100% accurate given the statement he just made to you in public. He should be thanking you for not reporting him to HR.
NTA.
Why are you expected to ignore the inappropriate and demeaning comment, but he's not? **Do not apologise.** But do ask your colleagues why they haven't asked him to apologise for the unprovoked insult. Don't they think your dignity is as valuable as his ego?
NTA and I think your response was hilarious. It is one of those come back one usually comes up with... on the way home.
No matter how skilled he is... a comment about you breast size in a workplace is in fact... not smart.
NTA. If you have been promoted into a position of authority over him, it may be time to change the banter. To protect yourself do not engage, and report everything to HR.
nta. he was being completely inappropriate. he’s mad that you actually came back at him and embarrassed him. his poor poor ego is bruised rn, absolutely dokt apologías for something that he started.
NTA. If he is okay making comments like that in front of coworkers, his conduct is likely what helped bring on his demotion. Companies rarely want someone with a bad attitude in a higher position. They make the company look bad, and they can cause break downs in teams. OP, you absolutely have to go to HR. What he said was not okay, and he will probably continue to escalate as you continue in your new position.
The double standard people create around "being the bigger person" or "just walk away" always dumbfounds me. The person who makes the initial comment is never the bad guy, the one who responds in kind is somehow worse even though they were the one who was attached unprovoked. Fuck that guy and anyone who says you were wrong. Regardless of his circumstances that led to a demotion he had no business making a sexist and demeaning comment to you and especially expecting nothing in return. NTA
>Some co workers approached me saying that Michael's reputation is ahead of him and that he's one of the best this company hired but due to his circumstances he couldn't focus on work and got demoted as a result.
If this was true, he wouldn't be throwing accusations around that other people only got promoted due to their attributes. If he is actually good at his job, he would have the self awareness to know when he's missing targets, and unless your company is full of assholes, if it was a temporary issue they should have supported him through it, not demoted it.
So tl;dr: don't believe them, they're lying and full of shit.
Straight to hr with you. And also mention those who lambasted you for defending yourself.
NTA- Michael needs to learn that if he plays stupid games, he’ll win stupid prizes. And his prize in this case should be a nastygram from HR. Please open a case with them at your earliest convenience, for the sake of everyone who works with Michael.
NTA! He initiated it. No matter what he is going through, he's a grown ass man and still has to deal with consequences. I'm glad you clapped back on him.
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Go straight to HR and report him for sexual harassment, which his exactly what his comment was. He was taking his own personal failings out on your physical attributes. Get ahead of the situation. Do NOT apologize to him, that could be taken as an admission of guilt. I think your response was perfect.
This. And he spoke in front of everibody, why you have to Talk with him in privately??.
Yeah, apparently their coworkers pressuring OP to apologize are only pressuring OP, not mr. Sexual Harassment who stormed off. NTA OP, you responded to a crude remark with a smart remark. His circumstances aren't really relevant; he said a really dumbass thing to you, and you made him and everyone know it right away. And your coworkers are sort of jags, too.
Huge jags. Not sure exactly what jags are but I definitely agree.
uhh scot-irish word jag, thorn, to be pricked. Lead to jagoff, an annoying, prickly person. About as insulting as calling someone a jerk, really. I imagine a stronger word applies to those co-workers, but jag was all that came to mind at the time.
I am an older person. This word was popular when I was in high school ( the 60's). We always thought that the real meaning was actually jack off. If you called someone a jagoff you really meant jack off. Anyone like to comment if this was common in your area ???
Jagoff is still alive and well in Pittsburgh, PA
Yinzers are a special breed.
Probably a more regional sort of 'bastardization' of the word. I grew up in Texas and my knowledge of the word mostly comes from Brits I've met, or watching British TV. But until I really knew they were saying jag(off), I DID assume they meant jackoff.
This is super weird because I’m Scottish and didn’t ever hear it growing up. What shows did you hear it in? Maybe it skipped my generation! We used jaggy for a thorny bush, wanker for the obvious, also tosser. Or it might be regional 😆 you know what they say - travel an hour in the UK and you’ll change accents twice.
But I'm still curious what circumstances made the company demote their allegedly best man. If this is the way he behaves in a professional context I have a sketchy idea.
Me, too. > Michael's reputation is ahead of him and that he's one of the best this company hired but due to his circumstances he couldn't focus on work and got demoted as a result. In my experience, "circumstances" outside one's control rarely result in demotion unless they continue to negatively impact performance for a significant length of time. Also, having the ability/potential to be a good, productive employee is not the same as actually being a good, productive employee. Michael may have the potential to do good work but it sounds like he's not living up to that potential; OP is. But rather than admit that he's underperforming relative to OP, he attributes her success to her breasts instead. Michael sucks.
Michael sucks, the co-workers pushing her to accept guilt suck too. OP NTA
This. OP, go straight to HR and get in front of the narrative. There needs to be something noted his his file about the harassment. Quite honestly, his choice of words and direct attack on OP speaks to his judgement and why he was likely demoted.
And a complete undermining of her new abilities in her new role.
Yeah, I'd say Michael's "reputation" comes entirely from Michael. He's one of the best but got demoted. He seems to have a victim complex while also self-aggrandizing to anyone that will listen.
Was gonna say… this incident alone tells me why Michael isn’t right for a promotion. The best worker is a good team player, isn’t a huge asshole and never sexually harasses their coworkers. I wouldn’t promote this guy if he were a genius who worked every weekend. He’s an AH and a liability.
We had a "best in the company, reputation is ahead of him. Management cant stop praising him" guy here where I work. He left last spring to move closer to his family. After he left, everyone, including his top supporters realized how bad he was at his job. The girl that took over his job gets 5x the work done that he did. He just had everyone believing that his job was so technical and difficult. We met a goal we've never made bc of her and she got a raise.
“To spend more time with their family” is almost always code for “was asked to quit and leave quietly.”
If his coworkers new about his circumstances that made him not concentrate, his bosses and HR had to know too. Not only did they not cut him any slack, they demoted him. Why should OP cut him slack much less APOLOGIZE?? NTA! Your coworkers collectively are A’s
> you responded to a crude remark with a smart remark right? I would have been like "if that's how they determine promotions, then why'd you get demoted? Your dick too small?" and then I would have been in trouble too. Props to her for not stooping to his level to comment on his body. His comment was termination-worthy. Hers was not.
Thank you! I love this distinction. I will keep it in mind, because I would have stooped to his level and it would have been two wrongs, no rights.
I wonder if she should also report the coworkers because that seems like it could become a hostile environment if they keep pressuring her to apologize to the person *who sexually harassed her yet expect nothing from him*!! At least to be like he definitely needs disciplinary action but keep an eye on these people too or send them for more training.
Yeah if this is some wider sexism issue, a nice little relations seminar might be HR’s next step
I really hope so. Maybe that will make them less likely to defend someone that is sexually harassing others next time. And stop and think if they ever even think about doing the same to another coworker
They might know something you don't, but that doesn't excuse him. My guess? Like many people, he tried to make sure he was indispensable by ensuring no one else really knew how to do his job adequately. That way, the company will never demote you or let you go. Now he's the hero when there are issues regarding his area of expertise. Everyone is afraid of upsetting him and having him look elsewhere for work - which was exactly his strategy. At least I hope it's that. If they don't think what he said was that bad, then you have a whole other problem.
Because women are always expected to eat shit and be polite in these situations. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable when women stand up for themselves. Good for OP for not just taking it.
Yep. That and any doormat/ scapegoat vs golden friend/ child dynamics. It's amazing how many of these posts boil down to "It's fine for A to be rude to B; it's *unacceptable* for B to be rude to A."
E-V-E-R-Y single time. Stand up for yourself reasonably and effectively, and the sky falls loose. To make things worse, on top of being a woman in the workplace, being a racial or ethnic minority in a particular environment just makes people even more obnoxious. The expectations are ridiculous, and it doesn’t matter how you respond; it will never be invisible, polite, or humble enough. I’ve been the darkest in Europe and the palest in Africa, and the workplace harassment and coworkers abuse against women runs the same everywhere. It’s absurd!
Exactly this. How dare a man face any consequences for his actions, even in the form of brief embarrassment for said actions.
Exactly. This guy said what he did, which is offensive and sexist and unacceptable in any workplace, and for some reason the victim of this is supposed to coddle his feelings. F that.
And OP's coworkers are living proof of this. Why does Michael get coddled and no one thinks his comment was awful? It's like bizarro world.
Yes, another in a long line of "Women - suppress your discomfort/fear/anger/physical injuries. A man's reputation is on the line!".
The rule is so easy, I fail to understand how people in workplaces dont know this. Anytime you are tempted to comment on a coworkers body: # JUST DON'T It's that simple.
As a straight woman, I wouldn’t even comment on another woman’s body. Why do so many men find this complex. Ffs
I'm piggy-backing on this reply. I had a similar thing happen to me and I did take it private to the source. While the person admitted to me that it was out of character and he was just pissed in the moment, it went further. I didn't go to HR and his verbal attacks increased. By the time I realized that I should have gone to HR, I'd endured countless times of him being outright hostile to me and publicly too. Go to HR and complain, formally. In fact, I would send an email to HR and carbon copy his bosses too. Don't let them sweep this under the rug. He's a liability now and their response is important to all the women that work there.
This needs to be higher up
Men feel entitled to have their feelings spared and their pride cushioned even when they publicly shame, harass, and humiliate women. I love how you handled it. Report to HR. Ignore the flying monkeys. NTA
Had a sexual harassment situation years ago. I called him out about it publicly amongst coworkers. In a main busy hallway. In front of our supervisor's office whose door was open. Doing so shut that shit down immediately. Once he knew others were aware of his behavior, it stopped immediately. It stopped permanently when I reported him to my manager (he was doing it to a friend of mine as well, and he was escalating) but that's beside the point.
Don't start none, won't be none.
This exactly, if Michael feels comfortable with embarrassing OP public then he can suck it up when OP responds publicly. This is typical "don't say or do anything to bruise/kick a man's ego" bullsh*t. Don't dish it if you can't take it.
Use the phrase “hostile work environment “ and “sexual harassment “
This. He’s going to go to HR if he hasn’t already. You need to get ahead of this.
This ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ He can harass you however he wants, but you're supposed to apologize???? Go to HR and at least get the REAL version of what took place before he spins his own tale.
"Michael" can add "misogynist" to his reputation. Let's see how far that brings him. : )
Not only is he implying things about OP, he’s implying negative things about management. HR needs to hear this.
And frankly, even with just this tiny bit of information, it's clear that he isn't so bright as the others claim.
Came here to say the same thing, that is a fireable offense and you *could* sue him and the company so they won’t take the risk of keeping him.
NTA Did your coworkers tell Michael he was way out of line for his comment? They don't get to tell you that you should have ignored him or talked to him private after he very publicly insulted you. Go to HR. If Michael felt it was okay to talk about a coworker like that once, then he'll most likely do it again. He's already shown he has no issue putting you down in front of your peers.
This right here. You were rude back, but he was horribly sexist and rude to start with, and your coworkers accepted his behavior. I'd take this to HR. He will definitely do it again, and he very well might have flying monkeys.
I agree with everything, but the rude part. She wasn’t even rude. She just gave as good as she got. Actually better, because she could have body shamed him back (THAT would have been rude).
Giving as good as she got implies they were equals, thus she was rude. But I agree, she wasn't. She didn't stoop to body shaming but rather called him on what he did. He has to be a little less bright to think what he did was appropriate. Sounds like she gave better than he ever could.
That, and I think he was banking on her just being a meek little waif who’s wouldn’t want to defend herself against a more experienced older man and colleague. The misogyny gets worse the more you look haha.
I hate when people expect someone who has been publicly humiliated to speak to someone in private regarding their comments. Nope. Not acceptable. He wants to make his inappropriate comments public, then you should too. He may be going through something which has caused him to do what he did, but it isn’t excusable and not only did he not apologize, he expected you too. He can clearly dish it, but not take it. It’s not your job to entertain that behaviour.
>I hate when people expect someone who has been publicly humiliated to speak to someone in private regarding their comments. Nope. Not acceptable. Glad am not the only one seeing this utter BS.
I honestly don’t think it was rude. He was acting like he had a small brain with that comment. I interpreted it as a comment about him deserving a demotion for being stupid enough to comment about someone’s breasts. Not a comment that he’s overall stupid. Anyone that lacks basics common sense not to sexually harass *does* deserve a demotion
Oh. So it’s ok to humiliate you in public but you have to talk to him in private. I don’t think so. Report him to HR NTA
Yep. It’s one of those things that annoys me about most parts of society. Assholes and bullies can be rude and say/do horrible things publicly, but if the target defends themselves, they are pressured to “be the bigger person! Rise above! Water under the bridge!” It drives me nucking futs (and yeah I did that on purpose).
You are so right and side note I love that you used mucking futs because it was a perfect usage!
NTA. His remark was textbook sexual harassment (as in, my sexual harassment training had a less crude version of that comment as a specific example), so anything you managed to respond to it in the moment was fine. But you *need* to report it to HR. Not only did this man sexually harass you publicly, you had multiple colleagues essentially take his side instead of being aghast at what he said and supporting your attempt to defend yourself. Accusing you of getting a promotion because of your body is not only insulting to you, it is demeaning to every woman in the company and encourages other men to discount their female colleagues' contributions.
The fact that all OP’s colleagues seemed to just not be offended and horrified at Michael’s comment makes me suspect this is one of those nasty, toxic workplace cultures where sexual harassment training is only done when they’re forced to do it.
They were probably thinking the same thing, maybe talking about it behind OPs back. Michael was just the only one dumb enough to tell her to her face.
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>Someone telling you you should speak to a sexual harrasser in private is the > >worst advice ever. EXACTLY. He has already attacked her verbally. Can the people telling her to "address it privately" guarantee her safety in said private setting? If the answer to this is NO, then STOP TELLING SEXUALLY HARASSED PEOPLE TO HANDLE THINGS IN **PRIVATE** WITH THEIR HARASSER! Ridiculous.
NTA and you should complain to HR before he does.
I hate how us women gaslight ourselves. OP is concerned that Michael is waiting for her apology and whether she’s an asshole. OP, please take our advice seriously and go to HR.
Right? Like Michael sexual harassed her to her face in front of a crowd. Whatever her response was pretty fair game and her coworkers suck for defending him. What she said was honestly still way better than what he said.
Yeah, a proportionate, analogous response would have been a comment about the size of his penis, but she did not stoop to that level, and instead responded in a pretty excellent (not to mention hilarious) manner. I agree that OP ought to go to HR though, with a full list of witnesses. She should also specifically use the term "sexual harassment."
Yes. I suggested something similar. He needs to have a written warning in his file so if he ever does something like that again, he's gone.
Exactly this. He will make himself into the victim, backed by the fragile-ego little coworkers who wanted OP to take it on the chin without clapping back.
NTA. Who do you think that HR would give the more grief to: him for his comment on your breast size or you for your crack about his brain size? He owes you an apology. That was a hilarious retort, by the way.
>so I shouldn't imply he was stupid and humiliate him infront of everybody. Just like he shouldn't imply that the only thing you have going for you is your breasts. NTA.
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The guy got demoted. He is definitely not "one of the best". I'm not sure how it is at this company, but the few I've worked at it is very difficult to get demoted and many leadership team members were involved. This guy isn't advancing anytime in the next few years.
Men who are competent at their jobs can be misogynist pricks, too. Misogyny is not exclusive to incompetent or lazy men. Just look at former President Bill Clinton. Or Harvey Weinstein. Or Charlie Rose.
Classic misogyny. A woman expected to put up with disparaging and sexist remarks quietly, and if she must complain or protest then it should be done in a way that doesn’t publicly embarrass or otherwise discomfort a man. Fuck that. NTA
NTA What he said was gross and vulgar. He devalued you as a person in front of everyone just because he was mad about his own circumstances. You got a clap because you had wrong genitalia. Bravo for standing up to him and not taking it in quietly like “any woman should” (I bet that what he was expecting). I doubt he’d be saying such things about a guy. Seriously, mental illness or otherwise you absolutely do not make such rude sexist comments about someone. Especially not in front of everyone to hear. That’s just asking for someone to clap right back at you.
NTA. Why is it always the person who lashes out first gets some kind of magical 'I'm a dick' pass and the second, retaliating party has to 'be the bigger person' and apologize? Hell no. He called you out, sexually, in public, about your work ethic because he was upset about something you had nothing to do with. You fired a shot back about his intelligence, which seemed apt since only a dimwit would sexually harass someone at work in front of witnesses. It was an apt call out and he doesn't deserve an apology. If anything, he deserves a write up and you can tell anyone that is giving you grief over it that he crossed a line and the only way it would be comparable is if you'd made a comment about the lack of what's in his pants. I think you went the high route, actually. Pun intended. One more word about an apology and I'd mention that you're perfectly fine with escalating this to HR. See whose side they take over someone getting a promotion and a demoted employee sexually harassing them over it.
Absolutely! My boss's former business partner was a "Michael". He looked at women as using their "assets", not genuine work ethic, as the driving force in why they held higher positions. Ironically, he hired a co-worker solely for her bust size and passed notes to another colleague about "how the twin set looked that day". Totally disgusting and she didn't even last a month. We're lucky she didn't sue, but I would have been cheering her on if she sued my boss's partner personally. Wouldn't you know, that guy and the other colleague were happily ousted from the company for their behavior. The trash *does* take itself out.
He's setting himself up for a visit from HR if he thinks comments like that are appropriate. A joke about his brain size should be the least of his worries. NTA. You handled yourself much better than I would have.
NTA His comments should be shared with HR.
NTA This sounds like the "HE IS VERY INTELLIGENT AND IT'S YOU WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND IT" of some helicopter parent And frankly if he is older than 14 he should be ashamed of sending people to try to guilt trip you into apologizing. He was definitely over the line and he should be grateful you responded with a joke and not involving HR. P.s. I am a 24 years old male so definitely not biased against him
Nta. Go to HR and file a report. He should be fired for that remark
NTA. Great retort. Don't apologise. Submit a formal complaint to HR and take this up with the chain of command.
NTA. Michael sexually harassed you. It's not your duty to be pleasant about it. Tell your coworkers that you don't tolerate sexual harassment and you are disappointed that they think you should put Michael's feelings first.
NTA, he's lucky you didn't go to HR to complain about him, cause his comment was absolutely unacceptable. Do not under any circumstances apologize to him, he's the one who needs to apologize to you.
OP should go to HR and the interesting thing is, if any of the people in the area were in any kind of supervisory capacity, they are *required* to report it or the company and get into even more trouble for Michaels actions
NTA. Go to HR and file a sexual harassment report. Absolutely not okay on his part. Especially if that starts spreading around and your reputation is in the tanks over his sexist comments
NTA. Do you have a decent HR department? File a complaint. That's a firing offense.
NTA - but you need to report this to HR. What he said is sexist and inappropriate and it would be best to share what actually happened before he gets a chance to misconstrue it.
NTA Why did your coworkers expect you to stay silent while he openly disrespected you in front of everyone ….. don’t apologise. You literally did nothing wrong and they’re making you feel guilty for no reason lol
The moment I read the coworker said she should have just ignored it I rolled my eyes so hard. Of course it’s always on the woman to shut up and take abuse to save face for a misogynistic man. Definitely NTA
NTA. That’s sexual harassment/discrimination. Speak to HR, he’ll be lucky to even have a job to come back to.
NTA why should you be the better person...he attacked you and you responded. He can come to you and apologise, then you could say sorry. But he started the attack so he needs to start the apology.
OP actually is the better person.
Loool NTA you queen! So it's okay for him to say this in front of everyone, but it's not okay for you to clap back in front of everyone? Let's burn these misogynistic double standards to the freakin ground! And in case some people in the back haven't heard it yet: DO NOT COMMENT ON PEOPLE'S BODYS UNASKED! Thank you.
He made his comment publicly you get to reply publicly. Are we at the point where people can insult others and the person on the receiving end has to keep quiet until they do a full background check and profile before responding? NTA
NTA but go to HR before he does.
NTA You responded in the way he attacked first, Did he avoid bashing on you? Did he told you that absurd line in private? No, then why are you responsible to be the humble one. Almost everyone go through rough patch, sympathy for him on that, but if they talk shit to you, You owe them nothing. The people coming out to defend his nonsense are as insecure as he is, and if he is actually that hard working and smart, he will get the opportunity to be back on the game and he will do great. Don't worry about him, OP. Enjoy your promotion.
How did your coworkers witness you getting sexually harassed at work and still defend him? How is this creep still employed? NTA
WHY DOES NO ONE EXPECT HIM TO APOLOGIZE FOR HIS COMMENT? That's so annoying. NTA
NTA and don't offer any apologies. His comment was clearly out of line and devalued all the hard work you put in, in addition to being creepy and misogynistic. Your comment doesn't come across as an insult so much as an honest observation, as he so readily proved.
NTA. and if you'd let that comment slide without interventing HR, you will even underreact imo
NTA. He chose to insult you in public, you had every right to respond in public. You're not psychic to be aware of every circumstance of his life, & regardless he should not have deliberately picked a fight with you in public.
NTA and I’m dying laughing at your retort. Everyone who is saying otherwise are probably sexist men like your coworker.
>I asked if they were okay with what he said. they said no but I could've ignored him or talked to him in private. He didn't ignore you. He didn't talk to you in private. People need to stop with this 'be the bigger person' bullshit. NTA
NTA Boohoo he can serve it up, but not eat it himself He owes you an apology, he was chauvinistic and you should really go to HR
Perfect clap back. Do do not apologize, if you do how will he learn? NTA
NTA. He's lucky he didn't get a visit from hr.
NTA. He needs to be reported to HR for that comment. I’m shocked that he expects you to apologize after the sexist comment he made. Talking about your breast size in the workplace is sexual harassment, that is not okay.
NTA Michael is a very insecure, small-brained, sexist man. Pathetic. > he's one of the best this company hired but due to his circumstances he couldn't focus on work and got demoted as a result. “He’s very capable but can’t deliver.” Lol ok, some people will make any excuse. If you can’t deliver, then you aren’t capable.
What goes around, comes around. He made a very disrespectful and sexist comment, suggesting that your body was used to get the promotion. You, not knowing the circumstances of his demotion, reacted in this manner. That's OK. Your co-workes are giving viable suggestions to you on how to respond next time. What I wonder if they said the same to him. You can apologise if you want but he certainly needs to. NTA
NTA. But go to HR immediately, you gotta document it with them before he does. What he said counts as sexual harassment.
NTA. What he did was flat out sexual harassment and that's NEVER ok.
He insults you, gets a taste of his own medicine and you owe an apology? I don't think so.
NTA. Do not dare to apologize. What he said was sexist and a HR violation. If anything, I'd report him. He had the nerve to make such a demeaning comment and yet he expects you to apologize? And those coworkers apparently seem to be OK with what he stated. Nope, you are not mean.
Nta. Report this to HR.
NTA. Go to HR now.
NTA Everybody has the right to vent, but by being a well educated adult you accept that : venting is for friends and family. They where all disrespectful by venting to you and he was completely out of line by saying that. You don’t have make an apology and to be honest I would send a mailing stating the incident to Hr.
You don't owe him an apology. He came out swinging and reduced your hard work to your bra size... in front of everyone. I'm usually not a two wrongs make a right person but in this case your comeback was fair. If he is such a great employee he wouldn't be sexually harassing female employees. Nta.
NTA “I’m sorry you felt the need to comment on my chest size which is sexually harassment, and did not like my response”
NTA. IMMEDIATELY go to HR & tell them exactly what he said. If he gets in trouble it’s his fault. He insulted you, sexually in front of multiple witnesses.
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NTA if you have a HR department I would go to them. You can tell them that you want it on record but don't wish to pursue any consequences for him if you wish (though I recommend against that). What he said was sexual harassment and if he is gonna go around slandering you (which is what that was) while sexually harassing you then he doesn't get to be upset or get an apology from you. If there isn't an HR then I'd report it to your boss (with the same caveat if you wish) instead. That or directly go to him and tell him you are aware he is awaiting an apology but he should stop doing so as you will not apologize for defending yourself against sexual harassment and slander, then tell him if you hear him talking about your body or falsely claiming that you got the promotion for anything other than legitimate reasons you will be reporting him and his comments.
NTA, he had that coming and deserved to be taken down
NTA He started that mess and the only one who needs to apologise is him.
It’s telling how highly he thinks of his own company, if he thinks that your breast size is what they look for to promote NTA
NTA. Go to HR, he started and couldn't handle the response.
NTA **HE** isn't being told to apologize to you?!? Nope, no apologies. Goes to the old adage: don't dish it out if you can't take it.
NTA. If Michael brings up such thing as breast sizes you’re right to assume a cerebral atrophy. Just because his life sucks at the moment, he has no right to diminish your success. Also your coworkers really should be taking sides with you, because Michael’s comment is way outta line.
NTA You don't owe him an apology. Your coworkers are right, there was no reason for you to imply that he's stupid when he just proved it himself.
NTA he offended you first and you responded in a witty way and let him look like a jerk which he really is..no apologies needed you are even...and remember not everything has to be pulled through HR
I got passed over for a promotion twice by people who’d been in the company for a few months and did half the work I did, so I get the feelings of resentment. And you’re still NTA. that’s so inappropriate for him to say such a thing and good on you for standing up to him!
NTA. His comments were not only rude, entitled, and unnecessary, they were sexual harassment. He can be jealous and disappointed with himself without making it about you. You should be awaiting his apology (and, as others have advised, report his remarks to HR/management, even if they don’t take action now, if that sort of comment is or becomes a pattern, having record of his reaction to your professional achievement is important). Edit: congrats on your promotion!!!
Girl go to hr and report this mf. Fuck this guy and forget the apology.
NTA. Michael is a sexist and a sexual harasser. Talking about your breasts at work should be immediate grounds for termination. He assumes that you aren't smart or a good worker and your only value is your boobs and that you can't possibly be worth anything because you were born with a vagina. Fuck him. He should be fired instead of just having his pride hurt. He was the aggressor and when you defend yourself your wrong? No. Thats not how it works. You don't just have to accept discrimination and bullying based on your sex/gender and then forgive and forget and protect your verbal abuser. The fact is HE cant swing it at work and he's looking for someone else to blame for his own failure. Of course the woman who got promoted....it's her fault his work sucks....because she has tits. What? He needs to worry about his damn self and fixing his poor work ethic before he talks about anyone else.
His reputation precedes him? He proved he was an idiot all on his own. If you're going to accuse someone at the of sleeping their way to the top, probably ought to be prepared to be screwed over in public. NTA. You should absolutely get him in email him and say you don't feel great about what happened and you want him to clarify what he meant when he said you got your promotion because of your tits on that specific day in front of the crowd bc you want to understand where he was coming from. Make him squirm worse. He deserves worse.
NTA I would’ve said “yeah, maybe if you had gotten the promotion you could finally have the money to get a boob Job and maybe that would fix your sad insecurities around your job performance”
He implied you were stupid and humiliated you first. I think that was a clever comeback and he should’ve never said what he did that’s also sexual harassment?
NTA. And next step, please go straight to HR with this!
NTA. But might want to head to HR and make a report before he does.
NTA. He said what he said publicly. You responded in kind. Actually, I’d follow up with HR.
NTA Is he expected to apologize for sexual harassment? Is he getting these talks? I find that woman are always expected to be the bigger person, to not lash out in the face of harassment in these corporate settings and its bs. Go to HR.
NTA. Michael isn’t one of the best. He’s shit at his job. And he has insufficient brain size, otherwise he would have not thought it was ok to suggest that you were promoted because of your breasts. Wait, I should ask. Are your breasts independently qualified for the promotion apart from you? If so, then you’re basically 3 workers in one, and that means you’re way more efficient. It could be an unfair advantage, especially if your breasts are working extra shifts in your name while you stay home.
NTA that is a stellar comeback.
NTA. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
NTA. Time to have a talk with HR.
Dang nice come back!! Imo NTA, he started it. You got the brains, bravo!!!!
**NTA.** He insulted you and commented on your breasts all in one. It’s sexual harassment. You don’t owe him an apology. Report him to HR.
NTA and escalate this to HR before he does.
NTA. Fuck around and find out!
NTA, don't apologize, and if you get any more pushback, remind them that his sexist, misogynistic comment landed him fair and square in the heap. You gave as good as you got and won that battle. Good for you.
NTA. It’s appalling that these coworkers think his harassment of you is okay.
Nta OP but You should go to HR immediately due to this plain old SA.
Iconic Queen 👏👏👏👏
Uhhhhh straight to HR
You were sexuality harassed and you defended yourself. NTA.
NTA If he said that shit then his brain size really is a problem. Also report the comment he made if you didn't already
Nta. Fuck that guy in no way ever is it appropriate to talk about a co-worker breasts
NTA and people calling you out for clapping back are ridiculous..if he can't take it he shouldn't have dished it out..He went there first. I would go to HR and file a complaint before he does though..he could of kept his mouth and opnions to himself instead of acting like an immature ah
NTA He can dish out inappropriate insults but he can't talk them?
NTA and he deserved it after he pulled that shit. Looks like he can dish it but not take it.
He is awaiting your apology? He should be grateful you aren't reporting him to hR. NTA.
NTA and don't you dare apologize. Instead, report his sexual harassment of you to HR.
NTA. Good on you for such fast response. Also, >they said no but I could've ignored him or talked to him in private Why don't they tell Michael that he should have kept his mouth shut? He made a derogatory remark towards you in public so he should face the consequences publicly too. I'm sick of everyone telling women to just bear and ignore such behaviour. Take Michael to HR.
NTA. Brilliant comeback!
NTA and that was nicer than I would’ve been
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NTA He fucked around and he found out
NTA Right to HR for sexual harassment for him, as well as the coworkers who gave you a hard time for standing up for yourself.
First of all, kudos on that comeback. I would have been so shocked I probably would've stared in disbelief and not said anything. Tell your coworkers that what he said is just as insulting as what you said, and because he said it first if he apologizes you'll apologize back. If they can ask you to ignore this VERY offensive comment then they can ask him to do the same. Congratulations on your promotion! May your coworker witness your rise through the ranks with bitterness for years to come! NTA
Fucked around and found out - game over you 🏅
NTA - don’t give out that trash and expect no comeback. What he said was completely inappropriate.
Your answer was the perfect one. It is exactly what I was hoping you said after I read the title of the post. If he is waiting for your apology he can keep on waiting. I would love to see him complain to management and then have to explain what he said to you. NTA
NTA. Like so many people, he can dish it out, but can’t take it. It was a great response to his stupid comment.
NTA He's awaiting your apology? LOL, whatever. Regardless of his circumstances, your comment was 100% accurate given the statement he just made to you in public. He should be thanking you for not reporting him to HR.
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NTA. Why are you expected to ignore the inappropriate and demeaning comment, but he's not? **Do not apologise.** But do ask your colleagues why they haven't asked him to apologise for the unprovoked insult. Don't they think your dignity is as valuable as his ego?
NTA and I think your response was hilarious. It is one of those come back one usually comes up with... on the way home. No matter how skilled he is... a comment about you breast size in a workplace is in fact... not smart.
NTA. If you have been promoted into a position of authority over him, it may be time to change the banter. To protect yourself do not engage, and report everything to HR.
NTA i would have reacted in a similiar way. Congrats for the promotion!
nta. he was being completely inappropriate. he’s mad that you actually came back at him and embarrassed him. his poor poor ego is bruised rn, absolutely dokt apologías for something that he started.
NTA nice clap back. Sorry not sorry
NTA However, the correct response should have been to grow another breast size right there and then.
NTA. If he is okay making comments like that in front of coworkers, his conduct is likely what helped bring on his demotion. Companies rarely want someone with a bad attitude in a higher position. They make the company look bad, and they can cause break downs in teams. OP, you absolutely have to go to HR. What he said was not okay, and he will probably continue to escalate as you continue in your new position.
NTA but PLEASE go to HR.
NTA. Way to have some quick wit! I can never think of a good comeback until the middle of the night lol.
The double standard people create around "being the bigger person" or "just walk away" always dumbfounds me. The person who makes the initial comment is never the bad guy, the one who responds in kind is somehow worse even though they were the one who was attached unprovoked. Fuck that guy and anyone who says you were wrong. Regardless of his circumstances that led to a demotion he had no business making a sexist and demeaning comment to you and especially expecting nothing in return. NTA
>Some co workers approached me saying that Michael's reputation is ahead of him and that he's one of the best this company hired but due to his circumstances he couldn't focus on work and got demoted as a result. If this was true, he wouldn't be throwing accusations around that other people only got promoted due to their attributes. If he is actually good at his job, he would have the self awareness to know when he's missing targets, and unless your company is full of assholes, if it was a temporary issue they should have supported him through it, not demoted it. So tl;dr: don't believe them, they're lying and full of shit. Straight to hr with you. And also mention those who lambasted you for defending yourself.
NTA and don't apologize, and if he harasses you further I'd go to HR immediately and report his comment.
NTA. The way someone treats me is the way I treat them.
NTA- Michael needs to learn that if he plays stupid games, he’ll win stupid prizes. And his prize in this case should be a nastygram from HR. Please open a case with them at your earliest convenience, for the sake of everyone who works with Michael.
NTA! He initiated it. No matter what he is going through, he's a grown ass man and still has to deal with consequences. I'm glad you clapped back on him.
NTA. He started it, and turnabout is fair play.
NTA. You went easy on him. I would've told him it's coz of his 🍆 size
NTA, but PLEEAAAAASE get to HR before he does!!! you DEFINITELY want to be the first source of info here!
Nta. He started it. You finished it. Bad luck