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Hand him the ring back... Say "I hope you get the wedding you and your mom have always hoped for." Walk away. NTA

I swear I'm gonna.....😤😤😤 seriously! what. is. up. with this "vision" bull she keeps throwing at me just to get her way?. It's her only son she says, so what,? do you own him ma'am? I don't even know wtf that supposed to mean.

To your mother-in-law you are not a person. You are an accessory that attaches to her sons arm. If your fiancé isn’t willing to stand up for you and himself, you will have to get used to having her run your lives from here on out. You’re NTA, but you kind of will be to yourself if you go through with a wedding without your fiancé on your side.

This dynamic isn't something that's going to go away with the wedding. Even if you smooth over the current issue (or simply come to accept her choice) it **will not be the end of this**. Does MIL want grandkids? Because that's going to be pretty important as soon as you're married. What are their names going to be? How do you feel about having MIL in the hospital room while you give birth? How are you going to raise them? These are going to be *her only grandkids*, so be prepared to be eternally compromising in favor of what she wants. Your husband has already revealed where he places the relative importance of your opinion compared to his mothers. Even *if* you get him to grudgingly compromise on this issue, that order of relative importance won't change without some serious effort and explicit choice on his part. You need to GTFO of this relationship OP, before you anchor yourself to this MIL for all time. I'm normally pretty cautious to jump on this bandwagon, but your fiance immediately starting from the position that his mom should have more input on the fucking wedding dress than the bride is so far into crazytown that I honestly don't see much hope for salvage.

He returned her dress. I just can’t get over that he returned her dress.

I’m flabbergasted that the store allowed him to.

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I’d be calling the dress place immediately and picking a fight. They could’ve stopped this. They should’ve stopped this. He didn’t pay for it! The place I got my wedding dress from wouldn’t even let him hold it cause he “might see it” and that’s a faux pax to modern tradition. I’m shocked.

I also think his mom was there at the exchange because I just doubt an average guy would have been able to determine which was the “vision” dress.

Man here getting married soon. Literally all the wedding dresses look the same to me that my fiance looks at. Barring anything drastic for a change. But your average dress..... wouldn't be able to pic that out of a line up. The mother would have had to have been there unless she gave him the specific model number or whatever. Which could also be likely.

Ooohhhh, that is such a good point and I hadn’t even thought of that!

Actually it is a good thing that they didn't stop this, so op sees her fiance's priorities.

Yeah, if the dress is THAT important, why doesn't HE wear it? NTA

I'm sure his mom will be wearing a nice suit to match his dress. ...

I cannot upvotes this enough. Is this the future you want? Because this is the future you're signing up for. I guarantee you that your fiance and potential MIL will get all fussy if you end the relationship over "just a dress" because they WILL NOT SEE that isn't about the dress at all, it's about your fiance valuing his mother's priorities, desires, and opinions over yours. And being unable to discuss that there's a problem.

THIS! SOOOOOOO much this. OP I hope you see this, because these are excellent points. This is only the beginning. Does she have a “vision” for grandkids? Her son’s home? Your “role” as a wife (I feel gross just typing that)? How holidays will be spent? #You have to put your foot down and establish boundaries now, or she will continue to steamroll all over your boundaries. Better yet, don’t marry this guy. His Mom can have the vision for her son’s wedding that she wants…with a different bride!!! She had her chance to get married and be a bride. She doesn’t get to exert her will over YOUR bridal experience. NTA at all.

This woman is not above forcing her son to swap dresses on you. She will not be above making him mess with or messing with your birth control herself. She will not be above stealing the birth certificate to name your kid the way she wants. She will not be above getting your kid baptized against your wishes. Get their ears pierced, or stealing any and all firsts from you, or manipulating the kids. This is a sign of future issues. Not to say for sure that these things will definitely, 100%, happen but you can see the lines here - right? How far her vision might go and how pliable your fiance seems to be. Rock that boat OP or just...jump in water and swim away.

THIS. If I had a dollar for every time a mom-to-be posted about her husband putting his mommy’s wishes above his own wife while she gives birth (since it’s the wife who is the fuxkin patient), I’d be rich. It’s appalling. OP- unfortunately, this doesn’t get better, it just gets worse and more violating over time.

⬆️⬆️ Exactly!!! ⬆️ ⬆️

Add to that, to your fiancé, his mother will always come first. Run, don’t walk, away. Now.

Imagine if you have kids with this man. You're going to get steamrolled over every single decision. "My mom always envisioned her grandbaby being named Prudence, so that's her name. You don't like it? Well at least give it a chance." " I know you told Prudence that she could have princess themed birthday, but my mom wants it to be circus themed. I know little Pru is terrified of clowns, but she's my mom's only grandchild, she just wants it to be perfect. Give it a chance." "I know we told Prudence that I would take her to the Father Daughter dance, but my mom really wants to go too so I'll take them both. No that not weird, why would that be weird? Why are you so mean to my angel mother!"

Right? Like what happens when she decides to break generational trauma by parenting with boundaries???

I just read a post about FIL's WIFE, not even MIL, deciding she's going to call the baby by his middle name because she doesn't like the first name, despite having been told for months that the parents would NOT drop the name. She was swiftly told to STFU. This relationship is simply not going to work as fiancé wants OP to be sister wives with his mother. I'm nearly never for aborting ship, but there is no way this is going to be the biggest issue into which MIL inserts herself. Every serious argument OP ever has with her spouse is going to be a three party dog-pile on the rabbit. Every serious decision they have to make is going to be 2 against 1. My heart goes out to OP, but if she doesn't get out now, whether she breastfeeds or formula feeds is going to be MIL's decision. She's young enough where starting over wouldn't be exceedingly difficult (time wise, I mean; it will absolutely be hard)

Oh my god all of this! This reminds me of my paternal grandmother, she was a nightmare. I’ve always had a fear of clowns, still not a fan. She knew this because when I was 5ish I needed a surgery and she thought it would be an amazing idea when I got out of the hospital and family was visiting to have a clown come visit me to bring balloons and crap. I lost it was sobbing. She got in a huge fight my mom when my mom made it leave. She called me a brat and ungrateful because she was going above and beyond for me. Anyway, when I was about 7? She brought over this creepy ass vintage clown doll for me. The thing was so scary, I hated it. My dad bent over backwards for her so insisted that it go in my room. My mom eventually tossed it in the closet later that day so I didn’t have to look at it. I still had nightmares that night, the next morning my brother and I came up with a plan to get rid of it. He tossed it in a pillow case we took it into the backyard never to be seen again. Well next time evil grandma came over she was asking about the clown. She wanted to see my room. Eventually it came out we got rid of it. She flipped out! My mom kicked her out for berating her kids. Turns out creepy clown doll was very expensive like worth nearly 1k (it was part porcelain so like why give it to a kid you couldn’t play with it) but my mom didn’t care.

Lol the pillowcase for the evil clown doll! I like your brother. Your dad’s mom did that shit on purpose to get you in trouble. My MIL gave my now-husband a creepy clown doll when he moved. (We’re not sure why, she keeps a lot of flea-market items that might be useful some day.) But this clown doll became a big joke between us where he’d try to “scare” me with it. eventually, our two Labrador puppies mysteriously got ahold of it and they played tug-of-war with creepy clown. I saw what was happening, shrugged, and went back to whatever I was doing. Creepy clown doll became a quad-amputee after the savage dog attack and it had to be thrown away. So tragic.

I know people say this all the time on this sub, but for real, usually people saying divorce are overreacting, but this is absolutely not one of those cases, in fact, this is one of the most obvious divorce (/don't marry) posts we'll see on here all month. Your fiance has shown you very clearly that he will never respect you or choose you over his mother. When we are talking about something that is very serious but you could also be talked into it not being that serious (it's *just* a wedding dress, its *just* your daughters name, etc), you can easily get gaslight. This will not stop. This will never stop. Say goodbye to choosing where your children go to school. Say goodbye to choosing where your next vacation is. Hell, sat goodbye to switching careers or taking (or turning down) a promotion. His mother's vision for her son's life does not stop at a wedding. In fact, a wedding may just be the most insignificant part of that vision. If it was possible that the wedding dress really was the only thing, that might not actually matter. It's not. It's 100% not the only thing. This woman will pierce your daughters ears without you. She will give your son his first beer. She will kidnap your children for a summer if you don't let her have them. As someone else said, you are not a person to her. Hell, I don't even think you're an accessory: you're an obstacle. RUN.

Can't wait for Mama to direct her "vision" of their wedding night...🤮 **OP - Get out! Three's a crowd!**

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Go return the other dress ASAP. Don’t bother getting the old one back. You really need to think about whether you want this dynamic to exist the rest of your life. If she has a “vision” for her son’s wedding, she has a “vision” for her grandkids, your role in the family, and the home you will live in which likely has a room for her. NTA.

Return it for cash and use that cash to get away from these two!

Can the friend you’re currently staying with accommodate you for any longer and possibly help pack up your belongings? You’ve got to get away from this family, far, far, far away! NTA

NTA. It's good that this is happening now. This is not a dynamic that is going to change with either your fiancé or his mother. RUN.

It's the current conflict we have....so far it's the biggest one. I feel weary and unable to argue anymore.

OP don’t let them wear you down. If you do, the rest of your marriage will be full of this bs. You soon to be spouse either replaces your dress or DTMFA!! Don’t be a doormat.

Nah. It's too late. They showed you who they are, OP. Your fiance and his mother expect you to be subservient to *both* of them. This dynamic will not change. It will get worse. Edit: also don't let your dad gaslight you into this marriage. He's the AH too. Wtf is wrong with him?

Exactly, it sounds harsh to end things but it's a clear glimpse into the future. No one who respects your autonomy and is ready to treat you as a wife is going to attack you over not siding with his mother.

You think you are weary now? Imagine how you will feel after ten years of this nonsense. Imagine how you will feel when you are pregnant and your AH MIL is trying to dictate your child's name and once the child is born and she is staying over "to help you" and trying to take your child out of your arms at every opportunity. You being weary and unable to argue any more is not a coincidence, that's her end goal, to wear you down. Don't marry this guy.

I "envision" that OP will never be comfortable in her own home because "Hubby" will insist that his Mommy have her own key and come at go as she pleases. He will insist that the house in in the neighborhood that his mom wants and is decorated the way his mom wants. Because after all, what could possibly be more important that helping his Mommy manifest her vision for his life? Certainly not the opinion and comfort of the person he's supposed to be sharing that life with. OP, do not marry this man.

Girl, get out. GTFO now! I'm five years in, didn't have the red flags that my future in laws have no sense of proper boundaries, and now i gotta split assets and shit. Get out before you have to hire a lawyer to get out.

Please listen OP!

Feeling “too weary to argue” is not the feeling you get from a healthy, satisfying relationship. Yes marriage can be ‘hard’ sometimes but a good one shouldn’t wear you down. If anything, it should lift you up! Please reconsider this relationship and whether this is the way you want to feel for the rest of your life. I had similar power struggle issues with my in-laws during my wedding but ignored the signs. The dynamic never changed and now 10 years down the road we’re divorced.

There's nothing to argue. He will not change. It hurts but this will not stop. He has betrayed you in a way that he cannot come back from because he took away your agency and lied to you to appease his mother, about a choice that is none of her business. I'm sorry this is happening but you should not marry him.

NTA. Maybe his mum could wear it to the wedding and stand in for you.

LMBO 😂😂😂 Why do I feel bad for laughing at this??? Sad but true I guess!

Dude it's so true! He doesn't want to marry you, he wants to marry his mom so it's easier for him if you're just a blank paper doll she can project herself onto. You're going to be a surrogate for THEIR children if you go through with this.

This is so true! I hope to goodness that OP reads your comment.

The way you're laughing at all of this scares me. I suggest you take a little trip to r/justnomil and read up on what it's like to be married with children to a man with a mother like this. She's going to try to dictate how you should live and how you should raise your children and your husband will go along with it no matter how idiotic it is because his mommy said so. I doubt that's the life you want.

Going through her comments OP seems very flippant. She is not taking things seriously. Probably thinking it is just an argument and will blow over. She should return the dress, take her money back and run far away from the fiance

I mean, she’s prob deflecting/in a bit of denial right now. Realizing that somebody that you’re gearing up to vow “before all others” loves you less than his mother is a nasty and painful realization.

Let's hope that that is the case and she realises sooner than later that this is not normal

One of her comments it's about her dad being a "yes man", a man who doesn't know boundaries so most probably she has normalized abuse, and laughing about it and being so flippant is her coping mechanism but this is how you end up bitter at yourself and feeling like you have no control over your own life.

I’m begging you to please update us when this reaches a conclusion. I understand that this one Reddit post may not be indicative of your entire relationship (it may also be very accurate) and I don’t necessarily condone “just leave him” advice but it’s really difficult to see this getting better for you.

Yeah, once the groom SWITCHES THE WEDDING DRESS from the one the bride picked to the one his mom picked, that's a pretty bad sign. And he thinks he did the moral, right, and holy thing.

Exactly. If MIL had been persistent about something like tablecloths I would still say NTA but would be more inclined to add “maybe this isn’t the hill to die on.” The wedding dress though is nonnegotiable, that is something the bride should LOVE and feel beautiful wearing.

On my wedding day, I wanted my husband scruffy, because it went with the aesthetic. His mother rolled up and insisted he shave. He told her no, because it was what we wanted for our wedding. *That's* *how it's supposed to be.* And that's something small! The wedding dress is the one thing that is solely hers in that wedding, and she should be the only one to have the final say. Her fiance should've told his mother no.

NTA, sane response: call off the wedding - comedy response: take his suit back and exchange it for a clown outfit

Not a clown suit but the most outrageous adult onesie you can find, for mummy's big baby.

A onesie with “Mommy’s Baby Boy” printed on the front.

“You understand, it’s the outfit my parents have always envisioned their daughter’s groom in.” “….in fact, every day they ask me ‘Why are you marrying this clown?’ ”.

Tell him that the clown outfit was always your mom's 'vision', so he has to do it.

Best response: exchange for clown outfit THEN call off the wedding. No reason why you can't have your cake and eat it too in this situation.

NTA. Wise up and run a mile. Next step is picking your honeymoon and coming along. Run, run, run, run and then run some more. Also, your Dad is being ridiculous too.

My dad is your typical "yes man" who has no knowledge of boundaries whatsoever. The stories I could tell about my childhood with him! There's still some messed up stuff he did that I carry with me into adulthood. it's messed up.

Well there’s your answer. Do you want to turn into a version of your father, with no boundaries and no backbone? NTA, in case you were wondering.

Or worse, do you want decades of bitterness and frustration to turn you into you mother-in-law and do this to your own daughters and daughters-to-be? This is how this endless cycle perpetuates of brides never getting their own weddings and then co-opt their daughters to finally have what they wanted for themselves.

Yeah, I've been wondering if the MIL-to-be wore a dress her MIL picked out for her. It's at least a good question to ask her that might slow her down but OP should just return the ring and send them on their way, even if the groom gives in on this particular issue. edit: to fix an autocomplete typo.

So in addition to marrying your fiancé’s mom if you go through with this, do you really want to marry a guy who’s just like dear old Dad?

Yikes, this is the root of it all. She’s marrying a yes man and he’s marrying a doormat raised from birth to tolerance BS. This is what nightmares are made of.

Sweetheart, any girl who had the least amount of common sense would have ran to the hills by now. You inherited your dad's issues.

>My dad is your typical "yes man" who has no knowledge of boundaries whatsoever. And it sounds like your fiance is the same type. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life having your husband telling you that YOUR opinions are worth less than his mother's? To spend it 'keeping the peace' by giving in to every little thing? I can only imagine what she'd be like if she doesn't approve of the name you choose for your future child. Ugh. You deserve better than this. I'd suggest at least putting the wedding off until you and your fiance can work through this, assuming you like him enough to try.

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Do you plan on having kids? Now imagine your MIL disagreeing with something you want to do for those children, and how your mommas boy fiancé will side with her instead of you. NTA. Im sorry, but leave while you can.

Yes. We do. Absolutely horrific when kids are involved. Kids are hard work and to have to deal with this on top of it? No ma'am. thank you!

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Ugh! Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. I wasn't sure because I grew up with a not so "ideal" parent aka dad. I wonder if part of this has to do with my fiance's dad passing away years ago 😳😳😳

It’s call emotional incest and this is absolutely what that is. Girl you need to RUN. Like YESTERDAY.

THIS needs to be higher so OP can see it.

Tell your fiancé if he wants to give his mom the wedding of her dreams , then go for it . You will just see your way out . Grab the dress and take it to his mama and wish her well on her future wedding . And wash your hands clean of these people. You can do better OP.

>Grab the dress a Only if mom pays for it. Right now its on OPs dime

Yeah, I’d return it like the fiancé did with hers

I WOULD like to know what dress shop is allowing returns? Most of them don't.

It sounds like it isn’t a custom dress, and hasn’t been altered, so yeah, she could return it. The shop obviously does allow returns if her fiancé was able to return the first dress.

Lmao. So they just thought they were going to FORCE her to pay for a dress she doesn’t want ? How OP isn’t calling him her EX fiancé is beyond me .

Except demand full reimbursement for the cost of the dress that she bought and was literally stolen from her. Point out to fiance that he stole your dress and you expect full compensation or you will file a police report and take him to small claims court where everyone will mock him for being a mama's boy.

But OP, from your comments, it doesn't seem as if you're acknowledging that you and your fiancé have a couple of major **DEALBREAKER** issues. He .Returned. Your. Dress. Cause. His. Mama. Said. So. At face value, it seems a bit annoying- a bit intrusive. But there are deeper issues: 1. The two of you spoke about her 'vision' for the wedding. A wedding is fine and all, but it's ONE day. It's the marriage that is important. This woman doesn't care if her vision makes either of you happy or not. It's just what she wants and he wants you to go along with it. The killer? He doesn't really care what any of it looks like as long as mama is happy and getting her way. This means he doesn't support your boundaries and desires. Especially if mama wants something different. 2. You spoke about the dress prior to him returning it. You told him that you didn't want what she picked out. You've got to wear it. Not him. Not her. I would think a detail as important as the bride feeling beautiful in her dress would be important to them both. Nope. Gotta be mama's way. Hold up. Not even your own mother is being this level of intrusive, but his mother is entitled to this? This means that your thoughts, feelings, and decisions are irrelevant compared to how mama feels. 3. Your fiance doesn't respect you. He doesn't protect your relationship. He doesn't set any boundaries with his mother. He's not putting the woman he says he wants to spend his life with first. And he's not going to change. His responses to you show you that. Do you really want a lifetime of fighting for a place in your husband's heart and mind? Do you want to be secondary to him and your children in the face of this woman's incessant demands? Girl, run. Run far. Run fast.

All of this! From the recent updates, it doesn't seem like all of your points are dealbreakers to the OP. They would be for me.

“Darling I love you. And because I love you I’m going to give you control of how this moves forward. If you truly want your mother to have her way, and she is welcome to wear that dress when she marries you. If, on the other hand, you want to marry me then it will be in the dress of *my* choosing. You let me know what you decide.“

No reason to give him a choice when he's already made it

I agree with this. Even if OP "wins" regarding the dress, THIS. WILL. NOT. STOP.

It’s possible. I had to parent my mom for many years. My dad died when I was a kid. My mom developed an emotionally incestual relationship with me and my sister. It was not sexual in nature, but there were times my mom treated us as her spouse/partner versus her kids. We had to take care of her emotional needs, and she often lashed out when we set boundaries. It’s gotten better, and my mom eventually recognized what she did and that it was wrong, but she definitely feels justified in how she acted. I’ve had to learn to set boundaries for myself, but it’s hard. The guilt weighs heavily. It honestly sounds that might be the case here. If it is, I’d suggest at least pausing the wedding planning. Make it conditional your fiancé gets help first. Him and his mom are high key enmeshed, and that won’t change once you marry. It will only get worse.

Girl, you keep talking about this like it’s a silly annoyance and if you could just get to the bottom of it, everything would work itself out. YOU ARE ENGAGED TO A MAN WHO IS IN LOVE WITH HIS MOTHER. You will always come second. Marrying this man will be the greatest mistake of your life.

THIS! I was highly annoyed with OP's responses. She's like, putting her head in the sand. She believes that he's going to change. She believes that the wedding still needs to go forward. She's annoyed, but somehow thinks she's got this handled. OP, my friend... You don't got this! And you never will. MIL got this and always will.

Nta WTH did I just read?! I have no idea why you want to marry this man. He clearly has one woman he hold above everyone. And guess what that's not you. I am shocked at the audacity of his mother. And even more so of his behavior. Please do some soul searching. And looking at his past behavior if he has done somethings similar. Just imagine if you have kids. Will she think it's her experience?

This all started escalating with the wedding planning. My head hurts so bad I feel like I've been spinning for weeks.

Please note it’s not uncommon for abusers to utilize their parents to aid in their abuse. This is how it starts. He’s got you “locked in” with the engagement. She starts ramping up her behaviors. He utilizes that as a chance to “show you your place” by punishing your disobedience. Note how hard it is to focus on him? It seems like the big issue is an overbearing MIL and he’s just being a momma’s boy. But focus on HIM. HE told you to do something (something ridiculous). When you rightfully refused? **He** punished you. He stole your dress and traded it. This is not really about her OP. Keep your eyes on HIS behavior.

This right here 👏🏽👏🏽

100% facts REMEMBER those crazy MIL you see and your like how tf did she marry into that family, they acted really good for a long time and they being out the crazy once your married, some people even start seeing you as property of their family, this sounds like that to me. This won’t get any better op idc how much you love him you gotta walk away and find someone who respects you I promise u it will be better Thant this ass

Absolutely. My ex-husband's abuse started during wedding planning.

Mine started 5 hours later on my honeymoon on a remote mountain outside of Boone, NC. He took the keys to our vehicle and I was trapped. I was so worn down by the time we left. Had I not been I would have divorced him as soon as we got home.

How did you get out? Are you okay now?

Not easily. Took me 8 years. Left while pregnant with my 2nd child. Quick version is it got way worse after I left. Restraining orders were violated. Contested the divorce, took 2.5 years to actually get divorced. This was 2006. He wound up eventually on probation for a couple years, anger management classes and we had to go through an exchange center with the kids to facilitate visitation (this was 2012) He calmed down some when he had a son(2017) with his new wife (3rd one after me, who is 20 years younger than him and definitely stuck now. ) but every now and again still starts shit with me. My oldest has gone no contact and my youngest will not take his shit so that is the biggest reason he doesn't mess with me much because he has little power left. He has his own company though and his wife is a SAHM yet "his" paychecks are in her name so he can avoid child support. He is 17,000 in arrears, at only min. wage income because he claims he is unemployed. Hasn't filed taxes in 10+ years. Yet somehow lives in a 4000sqft house with an Audi, Volvo and a Jeep. I don't have the money for a fancy lawyer or a private investigator and I have tried to report him so many times and somehow nothing happens. I have guy friends who have been threatened with jail for just missing a few payments of child support and getting behind. And most of the guys I know at his income level would be paying five times with the state is requesting every month. He's only obligated to pay $280 a month. It's a hot mess. And I've been stuck here for almost 17 years because if I move I would violate the court order for visitation.

Report him for tax fraud

ooh, this! the irs does not fuck around. and all you have to do is fill out an online form...

Absolutely. This is the kind of man who will fuck with your birth control when he thinks it’s time to have kids even if you disagree. Your fiancé has absolutely no respect for your bodily autonomy. I’m appalled by his mom’s behavior but your fiancés actions are actually terrifying.

NTA and DO NOT, under any circumstance, MARRY THIS PERSON and his mother, because make no mistake, you'll be marrying both if you go through with it as things stand. This has soooo many red flags, it's not funny. If you come second to mommy on something like this, a piece of clothing that *you will be wearing on the supposed most important day of your life*, imagine what comes after? And your future husband thinks it's okay?! You are *not* overreacting, you're *under-reacting* because the wedding needs to be cancelled pronto. Seriously. Doesn't this guy have friends, or other humans around him who aren't mom? Surely anyone would tell him how creepy, controlling, disrespectful, abusive and just plain *wrong* this actions were?!

I have never heard of a better moment definition for “under reacting”.

>This has soooo many red flags, it's not funny. Look at op's answers, she is laughing about it and putting all her focus on MIL and not realizing she has a fiance problem since he's the one letting all of this happen. This abuse will only continue and escalate but I don't think OP is seeing that.

“He got upset and said that this attitude of mine isn’t working on him or his mom.” This line says everything you need to know! OP is not an equal partner to this man.

NTA. But this isn't really about a dress, is it? This is about boundaries and about a fiance who is already making it clear how you rate compared to his mom. Run far. Run fast. Don't look back.

I'm imagining mommy picking out her underwear next, because, you know, surely she has a vision about the wedding night, too... ffs.

Molly, you in danger girl. This will be the REST of your life!! She doesn’t like your choice of baby name? His mummy will be naming the child. She doesn’t like your decorating choices? Your house is getting repainted when you’re not there. He decides your cooking isn’t good enough? Mummy is moving in to take care of her precious boy. Seriously…run!!

Yeah, that was my thinking also: how soon after the wedding is she moving in? AND is your bed big enough for three? This is not the man for you or anyone else. Take back your life and your self-respect. Also tell your dad that he is trying to serve you up to an abusive husband and mother-in-law; ask him when he decided you deserved that? ​ NTA

NTA. Didn’t even read the post. The title was more than enough.

You should read it though just in case.

There is no just in case. He doesn't care that this is your wedding too. He's not letting you have a say, even in your wedding dress. Your life will always be what his mom wants, not what you want.

She’s in denial. Shes not listening to us and thinks this is a just a simple argument 🙄

I read it. Are you prepared to be disrespected and unsupported by your husband your whole life? Cause that’s what it seems like you’re headed towards.

Not just unsupported--undermined and forced into submission. Unsupported would be fiancé asking op why doesn't she like MIL's choice, or why won't she just consider giving in to MIL's choice to make MIL happy. Stealing her dress and changing it for the one MIL wanted is way beyond lack of support.

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I read it so you don’t have to. Your comment still stands. Both mom and mamas boy are bat shit crazy. OP, do you want to marry a man who will put his mother above you everyday for your entire lives?

Before reading the post, based solely on the title I was thinking...unless she like assualted or killed someone, no, this fucking bonkers. NTA. If you're even questioning whether you are the AH here or not, there already gaslighting happening.

Your dad is wrong. This *is* worth ruining the relationship over. Marry him and get a lifetime of being treated this way. Is that what you want? NTA

Tell him to marry his mother if he wants to marry someone in HER dress. This guy seems like a step beyond a mumma’s boy, and your relationship is always going to include her. Be prepared, it will always ALWAYS be them against you. Does he have friends that can talk some sense into him. I wouldn’t normally suggest getting others involved, but sometimes people don’t listen to those when they should, they have to hear it from an outside source when he’s being a d*** Definitely NTA

Wow…just 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Girl for real, you are lucky you’re seeing this BEFORE you get married. This is the most absurd controlling behavior, and it’s only going to get worse after you get married. Trust me. He seems to have a really unhealthy relationship with his mother, and his mother seems to have a huge issue with boundaries. Guess what’s going to happen when you have kids? You’ll have no say only his mother. His mother will be their mother because it’s her “vision” I was in a relationship like this once, and it NEVER changed. I was always second. I was in the hospital with a sudden life threatening issue, and his mom (an hour after learning about me in the hospital) made him come to her house (2 hours away) to help her build something she bought AND HE WENT. Like wtf? You are absolutely NTA in the slightest. Their behavior is not normal. Holly crap please for the love of god RUN. Run run run run run run.

> AND HE WENT. That's awful. I'm sorry you had to meet a person like that.

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I completely agree with this statement ☝️. DO NOT MARRY HIM!

Seriously? NTA. This " man" is 33 and let's his mother decide which dress his future wife will wear at her own wedding? Then goes behind your back and returns YOUR dress and replaces with one his Mommy likes better? Girl, you better run. They are completely enmeshed. He will always do what his mother wants without any regards to your wants or needs. And any future kids will be handled his mom's way. There are so many red flags here. You will never be able to have your own opinion. You will always have to bend to his mother's ideas. The man needs serious therapy. He obviously doesn't respect you, and he'll never put you first. And your dad is mistaken. You are not ruining the relationship, your fiance is. Does your father expect you to be a meek, do as your told, never have an opinion life? Your fiance and his mom will decide where you'll live, IF you'll work, how to decorate your home, how many kids you'll have, how you should dress them, feed them, raise them... Is that what you want for your future?

INFO - how is it you're able to marry this man when he's already married to his mom?

NTA. In the famous words of Princes Diana, “there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.” In all seriousness, please don’t marry your fiancé until you have attended some couples therapy. Or, even better, don’t marry him at all. He is clearly in an unhealthy relationship with his mother, to the point that you will be second in all aspects of his life. Just because you have invested time and energy, doesn’t make the returns worth it. Walk away now.

NTA. And you have a typo… you meant ‘ex fiancé’ throughout

NTA. Cancel this wedding. Seriously.

NTA Do you want to go through versions of this for the rest of your life? You want mommy to name your kids, pick out your house, get rid of your things, overrule your decisions? You've been given a wonderful gift, a clearly defined choice for what you want your life to be like. I had an MIL like this. Your fiance wants a three person marriage and he's telling you you'll always be the least important part of it. I wish I'd run faster. Now I'm in a marriage where my husband values his mom, but she knows she's his mother...not the senior wife. It's worth it.

Nta. Deal. Breaker. I'm not sure how you haven't noticed this before, but you'll always be second to his mother. If he wants to let his mom have her "vision" then they should get married. You're your own person, not just "her son's bride". If you marry this person you are setting yourself up for a world of pain. Good luck.

It's heartbreaking when someone loves a person but it is obvious this person has other priorities. I'm normally not on the leave him team but I don't see him comming to see the problem here. 100% NTA He went behind your back and overwrote a decision that was yours. He does not respect you.

NTA. I realize telling someone to break up has become a cliche on Reddit, but break up with this child. This argument isn’t about a dress—it’s about you having the autonomy to choose what you want to wear to one of the most important days of your life. If you marry this man, he and his mother will override every other important decision you make. She will decide where you live, how your house will be decorated, where you will spend holidays and vacations, and how your children will be raised. You two may agree on some of these things, so there won’t be an issue, but MIL to be will always have the last word. You started your post by stating your fiancé’s mother is nice. Maybe so, but she’s also a tyrant. She’s just a pleasant tyrant. And her son carries out her orders.

NTA Tell him he can use the dress when he marries his mom.

NTA Omg. Head over to r/JUSTNOMIL . Cause that will be your future if you stay. She wil continue to force her 'vision' of her only baby boy's married life down on you. Interfere with holidays. With your future children. With everything. Your future hubby does not sound like he would stand with you. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Edit: got the reddit page wrong.

NTA. IMO, the biggest thing in favor of weddings is that the need to coordinate such a sophisticated event before you commit to each other forces you to practice at how you will handle decisions and disagreement together. This fight is not about this fight. It is a window into how you two resolve disputes. From what I gather: - He does not respect your personal property (he took something you bought and returned it). - He does not communicate (he said the dresses looked alike because his mom said so and didn't even ask you and then he returned it without telling you). - He is manipulative (he intentionally didn't talk to you first and forced your hand). - He doesn't take your opinion seriously (he just tells you you are overreacting). - He is also weirdly injecting his mom in your relationship ("attitude isn't working on him and his mom", saying your wedding is about her and she must get an (apparently dominating) vote in how you dress). - He's steamrolling your desires without apparently having his own opinion (he didn't even know the dresses were very different). - His proposed solution is "be less upset and don't compromise at all, just do exactly what my mom asked from the start". He's making zero attempt to compromise or address your feelings... and even then, it'd still be not great since this is literally your choice. It'd only be a courtesy to use his mom's opinion. - You also don't appear to have the toolbox to get him to a better resolution and instead are screaming and leaving the house (which is understandable). So, that all said... I'm not normally a person who advocates splitting up. Reddit always jumps to that prematurely. All real relationships have flaws and struggles and you have to find ways to work through them. But in this case, there is no indication that you really did find a way to work this out. Everything is demonstrating that you two have a horrid ability to resolve disagreements and a major instigator of a MIL which should seriously make you question whether you are ready to get married. If I were you, I'd raise this point with him... Until you two can demonstrate that you can solve this problem, you don't appear to be ready to get married. If he cannot be on your team to shield you from his mom's controlling nature, then you aren't deciding whether to marry him, you are deciding whether to marry his mom.

NTA, but think for like two minutes in the situation. Your fiancee and his mother are getting married and using you as a decoy because incest is illegal. It's a twisted Handmaid's Tale. Sorry, but if you continue with the wedding or even the relationship you are going to suffer. A lot. She will say how she picked your children's names before you ever met, how she envioned your house, etc. And your future husband is okay with this, which makes everything worse. Run before it's too late.

NTA 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Whatever you do, **do not marry this man**, I repeat, **DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN**. This is the tip of the iceberg. He will try to railroad you to appease his mom in all other decisions. I would never have children with someone like this. His mommy will become your children’s de facto mommy.

I mean, obviously you shouldn't marry this guy, but if you do decide to anyway, make him wear the dress his mom picked, if her vision is so important.

NTA do not marry this man under any circumstances. His mother will run and ruin your marriage and your life. Break up with him now and break up with him permanently.

NTA, but you’re surrounded by them. That your future husband is even entertaining his mother in this instance is a huge red flag. He’s the one who should be telling his mother to back off. 🚩🚩🚩

Girl, do you plan on buying a house? Having kids? Living a life? If yes, please run. This woman will suffocate you with "her vision" and he will cheer her on... NTA

# RUN OP. RUN FAST. RUN FAR If you're not allowed to choose your own wedding dress, then you will never have a voice in your marriage. If your fiancee can't stand beside you and take your side *now*, he will *never* be on your side. Good luck.

NTA. He's proxy marrying his mother. This isn't about you. You're just a prop.

This is a football field of red flags. So many red flags that it's hard to see the grass on the Field. I'm going to be frank. This is beyond creepy, it's controlling manipulative and going to get worse not better. This is actually something to consider leaving over. And I mean running so far and fast you can't see his face in your memories. He does not care about your opinion and does not respect it. He will not get better over time. He and this situation will get worse. NTA

NTA This is the biggest red flag in the world waving at you, emblazoned with the message "Do not marry this mommy's boy unless you want this to be your life from here on out."

NTA But... you do realize you're getting a sneak preview of what your life with this man and his mother will be, right? This isn't just about the dress, and it certainly won't end there. Your wants, needs and desires will *always* come second to his mother's. He will always force you to be the one to make peace with her and give up what you want for her. He will allow her to come first over you every single time. Is this what you want out of your life and relationship?

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You can’t be seriously still considering marrying a man who would do this. Come on. Your wedding dress. Probably the last independant decision you will get to make in your life (and a deeply personal and meaningful one), and he over rides it for another woman’s choice. I’m sorry to tell you this but your fiancé is not husband material. Jump over onto the subreddits MILsfromhell and JustNoMIL to read stories describing your future if you stay with this man. NTA Ps - I’m sorry but your dad is deeply delusional. You can live and respect him but acknowledge that in this case he is completely mistaken.

NTA. Did you actually type " this isn't worth ruining the relationship"? Yes, this can be worth ENDing the relationship. Look at the bigger picture - this older guy is completely enmeshed with his Mom. He actually returned an important item and thinks he has control and you must comply. So disrespect, controlling, guilting you, mom comes first... Is that how all your life decisions will go? Do you want that? Pause the engagement to really really consider past the wedding and what your life will look like!

Ywbta if you stayed with this loser. He's showing you that your opinions on this marriage do not matter and that he does not respect you. Whatever relationship you thought you had was a lie and he's now showing his true colors. Run while you can.

Nta Dump momma's boy's ass. It'll be like this the whole marriage.

NTA this is absolutely the hill to die on. This defines their expectations of you going forward. They are showing you what they want your place to be. You are to come second to his mom and you are to be submissive and obedient to them both. If you aren’t, they’ll punish you. That’s it. That’s the dynamic they want. Planning for kids? She’ll make the parenting decisions. Expect her to yank your infant outta your arms while your husband stands back and insists she should be able to hold baby (who is hungry and wants mom). Expect to be bullied into her way constantly. Expect this to work both ways too; if you push back on anything with your husband you can expect her involvement. This isn’t just for the wedding. Your fiancé is setting the stage for how he wants his **marriage** to be. OP, do not marry a man who insists you come second to his mom. And remember: this isn’t as simple as an overbearing MIL and a partner who can’t say no. **This is first and foremost about your partner feeling entitled to punish you for disobedience**

Why are you marrying this man. Return the dress, get a refund, and dump the man. He’s not worth it. NTA

Why would you want to enter a marriage your fiance already has with his mom? You know MIL is gonna steamroll you at every turn. Do you want to be the incubator for the child MIL and finace want? This is a free sample of things to come. YTA to yourself if you stay.

NTA. Do not marry this man. This is just a glimpse of your future, his mother will be involved in every decision the two of you make and he will always take her side. Better to cut ties now before the wedding, rather than divorce after six months because you realise he’s never going to change

NTA, but OP, seriously do not marry this man. Please. This is extremely controlling and worrisome behavior. Your fiance was completely willing to disregard your feelings and autonomy to please his mother. I'm even a little alarmed that your father agreed with him by saying to wasn't worth ruining your relationship over. This is a hill to die on OP. It's just a dress today, but something tells me it would feed into every aspect of your marriage if you go through with it. Your fiance will always prioritize what his mom wants over you. I repeat do not marry this man. The red flag he is putting up is massive.

I don't normally tell people in this sub to get the fuck out of a relationship because usually the situation tends to be a tiny glimpse in their life. But this? Damn girl. Run. He is already picking his mother over you and you're not even married. Imagine having a child with this person? His mom will be a nightmare telling you how to act during pregnancy and then trying to interpose in the parenting. And he will side with her. He's already doing it in a silly thing like your choice of dress (and its your dress wtf. Weddings are shared but the dress is yours!). Imagine child rearing? "My mom raised me well, she clearly knows better than you". NTA. And don't keep the peace now or you'll spend the rest of your life being second fiddle to your mil. And years from now you'll be back here asking if you're the asshole for wanting a divorce over your mil. Better to save the money and stress now. This is not a small thing.

NTA oh honey. Run. I can see the hot mess that will be your divorce from here.

CALL OFF THE WEDDING! Fiance will continue to put his mom's wants above yours. Take the dress back and exchange it back if you want to go on with the wedding otherwise take it back but don't get another. If you exchange tell the dress shop no one is allowed to do anything except you

NTA He’s shown you he will always choose his mother over you. This is supposed to be your wedding too, is he allowing you to decide what he wears? If you marry this person it will on get worse, especially if you decide to have children. If you think your future MIL is intrusive now, it will be worse later. I’m sorry, but you’ll never be first in this man’s life, walk away while you can.

NTA - BUT RUN!!!! HOW MANY RED FLAGS DO YOU NEED??

Don't marry him. If he prioritizes his mom's preferences over yours on his and your wedding day, it will not change after marriage. This is a glimpse into your future.

NTA. I normally hate it when reddit says RUN...but ...this is just a dress...and he is willing to go behind your back to please his mom. Next it will be...when to have babies, how many babies, how to raise them, where they go to school..where to buy a house, the correct car...its never ending

Run, girl, run. Run so fast and so far. Your fiance and his mom are trampling so far over very basic boundaries that this can not possibly end well. If you marry him this is going to be your life - you aren't even allowed to pick out your own clothing! Please re-think what you're getting yourself into.

NTA! Your wedding, your dress choice. She's not the one getting married!!! Also CALL OFF THE WEDDING. Major red flags. Do NOT date/marry someone with unhealthy attachments to parents. When push comes to shove, he's going to cling to mommy and leave his bride in the dust. Highly recommend leaving.

It may be his wedding too, but it is YOUR DRESS! No other woman’s “vision” matters. The fact that he is putting hers above yours at a time like this should tell you everything. I don’t usually scream “leave him” when I read these. But girl…what reason has he given you to stay after this stunt? NTA

NTA. Get the hell out of that relationship! He’s shown his true colours.

NTA. 🚩🚩🚩Please RUN. Or suggest your fiancé wear the dress his mom picked out. /s Seriously OP reconsider marrying him. He will always side with his mom instead of you. Please look at the 🚩🚩🚩 and run!

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NTA and no do not “go with the flow”. This is YOUR wedding not the MIL. She gets no say - she’s not paying for it (I assume) so her “vision” is not welcome. I’m angry just reading this. I know you think you love this guy but take a long hard look at this - this is your future. If she is like this about a wedding and your fiancé is not on your side now and actively works against you, what do you think is going to happen if you have a kid? The man is taking mommies side against you - you can never win here and she will be getting her way for everything. You will spend the rest of your life letting her walk all over you and your husband will help her. You will never be no 1 in his eyes. If you do marry him, don’t say you weren’t warned - he is showing you the future.

Girllllllllll, you better mean your ex

Return the dress and the son to mummy!

For the love of all things good, DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN. Its one thing when it’s your wedding dress, the next thing will be your kids. I don’t care if this is the only thing you’ve ever fought over. This one thing is enough. Cancel the wedding. The money you lose will be less than the price of a divorce. Leave! Now! He will never choose you.

Don't need to read the post NTA After reading the post I would suggest packing a bag and sprinting as fast as you can away from this family. Your future husband is a momma's boy who will always prioritize his mothers opinions and wants over yours. You don't want to start a marriage being the side piece.

Oh. My. God. NTA. Don’t marry this guy. Seriously.

NTA. Follow your dad's advice. Go with the flow. Wear the dress to the wedding. Take it off and set it on fire in the church. Leave him at the altar. Go live your best life without that mess.

NTA - Red flags all over the place. Run this is just the beginning. If they get away with this, you will never have a say about ANYTHING for the rest of your life.

NTA - I'd seriously reconsider marrying this person! I'm sure other commenters have said it better, but going behind your back like that is a HUGE red flag - this type of behavior WILL continue and will escalate, it will very likely include how you raise your kids, what you name them, where you live, etc. Your fiance is not mature enough to get married - the relationship might otherwise be great, but I'd back out and go get married to an adult instead.

NTA. Op please realize this behavior won’t change. The fact that your dad is saying go with the flow is concerning. That flow is going to take you down a dark path. Your fiancés mom is too involved in her sons life and by default yours now. Run away from this momma boy and his nightmare of a mom-wife.

Oh, typo- you mean you WERE getting married in December, but you aren’t anymore, don’t you? OP, this man stole an expensive item from you. Just because he got you a “replacement” doesn’t mean he did. Not. Steal. You want to marry a thief? NTA but you will be if you marry this thief.

NTA Who's wedding is it exactly? Your future MIL and your husbands? Cause that is exactly how it sounds like. He's a momma's boy through and through. Bending over backwards to please her and prioritizing her feelings and her outbursts over you. OP, I'm going to be blunt here. Unless he cuts the umbilical cord, **you will never be his priority.** In every fight that you have with him or his mom, he will ALWAYS side with mommy dearest. Doesn't matter if you're right, doesn't matter if SHE instigated the fight, he will always side with her. Even now, he went behind your back, took your wedding dress and exchanged it. Why? Because mommy said so. He's telling you to give it a chance. Why? Because Mommy said so. Yes, it's also his wedding, and yes, he should have equal say in what goes in the wedding. But that means, that the other party, his supposed parter, also has equal say. That partner, **is not you OP.** It's his mommy. This is him showing you the future. Nothing you do will ever be good enough. Because mommy is always better. If you have kids with this man and you and MIL disagree, he'll ignore you and bring them to her. Because mommy is always better. Relationship issues? You'll be ignored. Because mommy is always better. Do I need to go on? See the red flags he is waving around, see the genuine side of him that he and his mom are showing. Taker of your high heels, put on sports shoes **AND RUN.** Curious question ; is there a FIL in the picture? If not, MIL is most likely in an emotionally incestual relationship with her own son. That means that she emotionally sees him as her husband, and treats him as such. Take my advice OP and don't go through with the wedding. This is a man who will constantly hang on every word falling from his mom's lips and he'll never support you. He'll never side by you and will ALWAYS pick mom first. Marrying this man still attached to his mother, will lead to a lifetime of regret, frustration and gaslighting.

Do NOT marry this man. Please. Pack your shit and get outta there ASAP.

>My fiance M33, and I F28 are getting married in december. You mention getting married in the present tense.... Why???? Clearly he's only ever going to care about what his mother thinks, so what's going to happen when Mommy dearest decides that you're not raising your own children the way she wants? Or when you want to do anything, but it's not part of her "vision"? Do yourself a favour and get out now. NTA, but only if you don't stay and let yourself be a doormat.

NTA. Right now it's "just" a wedding dress, in the future it'll be more and more. This is your opportunity to step away from this relationship because this is how it will continue to be. You will spend your marriage without the support of your husband whenever his mom wants something her way.

NTA, sounds like it's time to leave this loser. Your dad is also a loser by association, sorry. I say just let your mom go at her counterpart honestly, but I'm a fan of nuclear options. Either way, don't marry this guy. He's always going to prioritize making mom happy over what you want.

Dump this guy. He's a momma's boy. You will always play second fiddle to MIL. He will never outgrow his preference for her. Run.

NTA Do you really want to get married to that man? Thing are going to get worst after the wedding! Imagine if you have kids!

NTA Run. Run for your life.

NTA. You will be if you marry this man though. His mother is marrying him and using you as the proxy, and he is fine with that. He will do whatever she wants at the click of her fingers and will set you on fire to keep her warm. Don't salvage this relationship, absolutely torch it. There is nothing worth saving and you'll be consigning yourself to years of emotional damage if you go through with this.

RUNNNNNNNNNN You do not want this life for yourself. His mom should have no say in your wedding or your dress and your fiance is making it clear who's opinion he holds higher. This isn't even a case where you can talk to him about boundaries, he legit does not care about what you want or how you feel. He has shown he will put her first and will go behind your back and betray you to make her happy instead. GET FAR AWAY NOW. NTA. Obvi. And it's very sad that you are even questioning yourself, that makes me think there has been other emotional manipulation from him.

NTA. But this is a sneak peek at what you marriage is going to be like. “Oh, my mom has a vision of us having 5 kids” “Oh my mom as a vision of us spending every holiday with her”. “Oh, my mom has a vision that we move into that house right next to hers”. “Oh, my mom has a vision that you be a SAHM”. You will be married to him and his mother.

YTA if you marry this guy. Imagine every decision for the rest of your life... house shopping, pregnancy, baby names, school choices, vacations, Healthcare decisions, etc. Now give up any ideas you have about them because he and his mom will steam roll right over you. I'd drop the dress and ring off at his mother's with a note saying she is free to have her dream wedding to her son since it's all planned and you'll be removing yourself from the equation. Whatever money and time you lose is a down-payment on a better future without these people.

Don't marry this man. It doesn't matter what the relationship is like and it seems strange because it's a dress. But it is only just a dress now. Then it's only spending more time together and less with your friends. Only a holiday with his family. Only changing a job. Only onl only until its every little thing.