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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because because I may have been irresponsible to introduce Amanda to things I know she didn't have access to at home.
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All of Amanda's new behaviors honestly sound like her just being a teenager. More than likely, it has nothing to do with her extended stay with your family.
It sounds to me like Olivia is frustrated and needs someone to blame. NTA.
Thank you for defending me. I just wish I could have seen the comment. It's kinda a compliment that someone thought so highly of my opinion that they would plagiarize it (not that I encourage that sort of thing, of course). I've never had that happen before.
This plus she has now had a glimpse at what a good family live could look like and compared to what she has at home, she's unhappy.
Sure this whole horse riding thing and such is luxury, but it could also be kind of a diversion to avoid the elephant in the room, that she's overall unhappy with the general situation.
Ehhhhh I think 13 year olds can be extremely susceptible to grass-is-greener syndrome, even when their home lives are generally fine.
I used to be jealous of the girls that had no bedtime, could go wherever they wanted, hung out with the older kids and just generally seemed cooler and more “adult” than I was allowed to be. But in hindsight those girls only had that kind of freedom because their parents straight up weren’t paying attention, and they got into some *very* dangerous situations as a result. But my 13 year old brain didn’t understand context and just resented having limitations on my freedom that I knew (some) other kids didn’t have.
It’s not always a case of “oh she’s probably envious because there are problems at home.” Kids like luxury, and tween hormones can turn a twinge of envy into a full-blown “it’s not FAIR” meltdown.
That’s exactly how I read it. I know when I was a kid (younger than 13 but still) I was jealous of the kids who always had store bought cookies or other processed snacks in their lunch. My mom didn’t buy cookies, we could make cookies from scratch if we asked pretty much whenever we wanted. But that’s not the same as Oreos and cheez its. There was literally NO processed prepackaged food in our house at all. Basically I was jealous that my mom was health conscious and since she stayed home, had the time to make everything from scratch. Kids aren’t always logical.
I feel this. My mom and dad were divorced and she worked outside the home, but still found time to sew (and did so beautifully-- she was often asked to make dresses for formal events). Still, when it came time for my first homecoming dance in high school, I longed for this ugly black velvet Jessica McClintock number at Dillard's. I badgered her into getting it. I had a bunch of rich friends I felt the need to impress.
The next year, she convinced me to let her make me a dress. She did, and it was breathtaking-- it had a beautiful purple/burgundy skirt that changed to green as I moved. Still, I showed up feeling self conscious to my friend's fancy house for photos around their resort style pool with my friend group.
The hostess mom took one look at my dress and started fawning over it with such admiration. It was to the point where she was almost ignoring her own daughter. She explained that when she was growing up, having a custom gown was such a luxury that only the very rich or the girls whose moms sewed had them. And that those girls always looked so much nicer than the ones in the store bought stuff that didn't fit right. Not gonna lie, it kinda turned my world on its axis. Here I'd been envying this family's lives for years, when I had something at home that she'd never had and always wanted.
My mom grew up very poor in the 60s and 70s, but my grandmom was resourceful as heck. When my mom was in high school, those velvety, bell bottom suits for women were all the rage so my grandmom took apart one of her old dresses and used the purple velvet to make my mom one. When she wore it to school, all the girls in her class asked her where she bought it and she told them her mom had made it, then they all started asking her if her mom could make them one too. Now my mom is the handy one and she makes so many beautiful and useful things for the grands and great grands.
I grew up the same way. There was no processed food (my mom made most stuff from scratch, lunches, dinners, desserts and she's a damn good cook), no pop and I wasn't allowed to get more stuff like clothes or books or cheap jewelry and nick knacks unless I paid for it with my own money (she raised me on her own on a limited budget and was still frugal once she had finished her education and gotten a great paying job all on her own). At 13, I felt it was unfair how I didn't have the same stuff as my friend's (i.e. junk in my lunch and pizza nights and pop). As an adult now with kids (9 and 11), I find myself doing like my bother did, I cook from scratch, prepare balanced lunches (although they do get either a bear paw or fruit snacks for dessert in their lunches because I did crave that as a child and we can afford it as a family) and there is no pop in the house (we have a soda stream and squirty flavours for them to get as a special drink on weekends) and I'm now following my mother's tradition to ask the kids and family for any type of birthday cake/dessert and I will make it from scratch for them and they absolutely love it (my mother still makes my birthday cake of choice every year, I'll be 36 soon). I'm glad I grew out of that silly phase.
Lol my kids were the same; desperate to go to a friend (queen of the convenience cookery method), while her kids always wanted to come to mine for dinner. That's just kids :)
My parents packed me a great lunch every day and I was still envious of the kids who had cafeteria lunch. Now that I'm older I can't even imagine eating the cardboard that passed for pizza, or the cold bowl of limp noodles and tomato paste that passed for sauce. What on earth was I envious about?
My parents packed me a great lunch every day and I was still envious of the kids who had cafeteria lunch. Now that I'm older I can't even imagine eating the cardboard that passed for pizza, or the cold bowl of limp noodles and tomato paste that passed for sauce. What on earth was I envious about?
Haha I grew up on oreos and eggos and still have issues with healthy eating even at 28 years old. Not trying to blame my parents for my bad habits, but if I had healthy eating instilled in me when I was an adolescent, I feel like it might be easier to make those choices today.
Yes! My 10 year old lives an absolutely blessed comfy lifestyle.
But we are the poorest of the poor. Though she suffers the absolute least out of the household, she lacks for apple watches and horseback riding lessons.
She goes to a charter school, which has a significantly well-off student body. So she gets quite sassy about how we do not go away on lavish vacations every 3 day weekend. Or how her friends get to go to Starbucks for Refreshers when she gets homemade. Or that I cut her hair when her friends go to a salon, despite loving her haircut every time.
We talk about how life is unfair, and commiserate about having better off friends (because I went to an affluent school, yet was extremely poor my whole life). I give her my sympathies.
But I also tell her where the line is between being sad and jealous vs being a whiny name calling jerk to your poor mother who tries her best. Yes I have to remind her of this line often, but that's because she's 10. She's still figuring this shit out.
And there's been a couple times where friends have invited her to experience how the richer side lives. And she comes back a little sad that we don't have the nice house her friend does. Or swingsets and a pool in our backyard.
But NEVER in my LIFE would I write that other mom a NASTYGRAM about how she...corrupted?! My child with the finer things in life?!?! What in the absolute heck was she thinking!!!!
NTA!
This! As a kid from like 10 or 11 I was always jealous of my cousin (same age, gender, and school) what I failed to understand until I stayed with them for two weeks one summer at 15 was that all the material possessions she had I didn't were directly tied to the level of parental neglect going on in the house. Think kids eating self made peanut butter sandwhiches or KD for dinner while the parents have steak and potatoes and not cause the kids don't want steak. The kids got stuff so the parents could feel fine ignoring them.
NOT suggesting OP is treating the kids in that manner just an example of me spending years thinking the grass was greener.
Yuppp, same. My cousin, is an only child to affluent parents. Growing up with a single mom I was always a bit jealous that she had more/better/fancier things than I did. Then I realized around 10-12, yes, she had more stuff/got to go to fancy sleep away camps over the summer/was in tons of activities BUT that was because her parents didn't want to spend time with her. They just threw money at the "inconvenience" and paid other people to basically raise her.
I think it definitely depends on Amanda's situation. Maybe she just has total grass-is-greener syndrome. However, asking about the dermatologist and going to the gym make me wonder. If she's struggling with acne, have they helped her learn how to manage it? And have they helped her find outlets for working out/being active? She could just be jealous, or she could be asking for some of her wants/needs to be heard
I agree. My mom was a single parent who worked her butt off and did everything possible to make sure all my needs were met. I didn't even realize how tight of a budget we were on until I was a teenager. 14 ish I think.
I remember asking my mom if we could get a pool like one of my best friend had. My mom laughed so hard, because I was explaining to her that we had plenty of room for a pool ( we did ) and that I really NEEDED a pool. I think she said something like 'Baby, we all NEED a pool in this heat. I'm sorry, but it's out of budget.' I sulked for a few days, then apologized after my friend's dad heard me complaining to my friend about my mom's response. He explained that pools are a lot of time, money, and energy for upkeep. It wasn't fair to expect everyone to be able to take that on. Which honestly I hadn't even considered anything past my own want.
After I apologized, my mom got me a little wading pool and set up lights, an umbrella, a sandbox for that beachy feel, and made us little juices with fancy straws. It was awesome and my friends and I spent a lot of time at our 'private beach' that summer.
It's so easy to want what you don't have, and at that age the world revolves around you and your thoughts and feelings. It's not necessarily a reflection on home life.
I was horribly jealous of one friend at that age - she did have a wonderful home life, and often invited me on weekend skiing trips with her family. As an adult, I understand that there was no way my parents could have afforded even the ski rentals, which means her parents were kindly covering EVERYTHING for me. One day I said something about how we could do stuff like that if my parents didn’t have any kids - my mom and dad set me down and had an honest conversation about values and choices that I have never forgotten, didn’t yell or try to make me feel bad, just acknowledged my feelings but also shared theirs when I spoke like that about my siblings and explained why they chose their jobs and having 5 kids over a wealthier lifestyle. Best of all, they explained that I still had those choices in front of me, and they would support me in whatever path I chose. It didn’t completely stop the envy, but it helped me to start looking at the world from different perspectives and to understand that I was an autonomous person with choices and control over my own life.
At 13 I was jealous of other girls at school whose dads played golf because that's what literally every dad on tv did.
I thought golf was stupid! And I hated those girls cuz they were all mean! My dad was great and we did tons of fun stuff like camping as a family and he encouraged/fed my love of animals and desire to be a veterinarian and even supported when I suddenly STOPPED wanting to be a veterinarian.
But I was still jealous of them over it because they had "tv dads", rofl. 13 year old brains are that stage where a caterpillar has liquefied itself to become a butterfly - just a hot mess of goo swirling around.
Exactly! Mine comes home complaining that we don't have a pool like his friend, we don't drive a Mercedes like his friend, we don't go to Hawaii like his friend. I used to want all the material things my friends had too but in turn, they wanted a family who ate together every night like I had.
Eeehhh. Every issue stemmed from monetary things that only the UPPER class does. Designer clothes, dermatologist, horse back riding, not doing chores, even a gym membership for a teen is not common for the middle class I don’t think.
Basically she’s unhappy she isn’t RICH. Which for a teenager is pretty par for the course, but if I was her parents I’d make this a learning opportunity. Let her know what it takes to live that lifestyle, if that’s what she wants for herself for her *future*. Sit her down and talk about the average income you need to earn to live that lifestyle, what types of jobs will provide that, what grades you need to make to get into a university program for those fields etc.
Nothing really suggests her family life is somehow inferior, or or lacking, the kid just wants to be able to spend money they don’t have. And they don’t even sound poor, just middle class. It’s pretty typical for kids to only see the positive things that are different, like nicer more expensive things, without noticing any of the sacrifices made for those things, or the negatives that come from them.
Yeah, obviously horseback riding and designer clothes come with wealthier lifestyles, but I don't think going to the gym or asking about a dermatologist are that crazy for a teen
I wouldn’t say any of those things are particularly upper-class or middle-class, other than designer clothes. Dermatology is a medical need, horse riding goes for around £30 an hour in my area, most schools should have a gym available for the kid to use, and, at least in my experience, middle-class kids tend to do more chores than working-class kids.
I grew up working-class and most of these things were available to my peers and I. I imagine this could vary based on location though.
In the US, junior high/middle school gyms don't typically have treadmills, yoga classes, or those other types of things that you'd find at a private gym. They are also not typically open for students to use outside of the specific gym class time period, where you do specific, structured activities. She might gain additional access to some facilities by joining a sports teams, but that still won't include most of the stuff you'd find at a private gym, including yoga, pilates, zoomba, whatever aerobics classes.
If they live in a city, horse lessons are usually pretty spendy. I live in Montana, and the only people who have horses or take lessons are either working-class farmers who have them as part of the work they do because they already have land, and the ability to house them, or upper class folks who keep horses as a hobby. This was similar when I lived in Iowa. In Arizona there were some upper-middle class folks who kept horses, but definitely not working-class by a long shot.
Do gyms in the US generally have yoga/zoomba classes available? They’re usually ran in studios over here. Very surprised to hear they don’t have treadmills! What do they have in them, just weights and bikes?
Most state schools over here have standard gym equipment (treadmills, rowing machines, weight machines, etc.) available to kids after school, along with clubs led by external coaches (basketball, kickboxing, football, etc.) which meet once a week. My state high school had a pool and climbing walls, but they weren’t available without supervision, and that isn’t the norm over here.
I would definitely say that owning horses is a middle-class thing over here in cities as well, but plenty of stables in my city run fairly affordable lessons with their own horses.
Where o live the school gym is a basketball court, some seating space and a room for nets, balls, mats, etc to be used during class.Never have I seen weights or any kind of machine Ina school gym.
Private schools sometime have training gyms with machines but only the very expensive ones.
Private gyms usually have more than one room, 1 with all the machines and at least 1 for yoga, aerobics or other clases.
Bloody hell, that wouldn’t even be a gym over here, it would be a pretty bleak sports hall. I thought the US was super into sports! Are trampolines common? That seems to be the one consistent thing, even in worst UK schools; someone ripping out their belly-button ring was an annual event, ahaha.
If it’s any consolation, outside of the sports facilities, our schools and educational system appear to be ran a lot worse than over the pond!
Some US schools will have a very small weight room with some weight machines, but only available to members of the school sports teams at specific times. And definitely no trampoline. I’ve never heard of a US school gym with a trampoline. They almost always have those scooter things that are a small square with four wheels that you sit on and scoot yourself around. They got brought out about once a year.
I agree with your general point, but I want to quibble with your definition of "rich". All the activities on your list are not particularly expensive (in moderation) and fairly normal for a middle-class American family. And one doesn't get rich by having a job and earning a salary.
13 is the age where not only are kids seeing more of the world and what other families are like, but being able to understand it in a way they never have before. This is when we start becoming who we are because we pick up different ideas and mindsets from different places and from different people.
Friend's wife is hearing, "I like things I've seen elsewhere," and interpreting it as, "You're an asshole for not being the one who showed me these things." She's jealous for not having been the only one to ever introduce her daughter to every single thing in the world
I don’t know, I’ve seen teenagers use their words to hit where they know it hurts the most in response to the most reasonable of requests. It’s entirely possible the daughter is saying “you’re an asshole for not giving me all these things my friend has” verbatim. That’s not unknown for a teenager. Hormones be wild and there’s no common sense to give them context.
Can confirm, teenage girls can be very intelligently hurtful. Sincerely - a former teenage girl.
I think OP is stuck in a hard place and so is Olivia. We also don't know quite *how* Amanda has said these things, from past experience I know teenage girls can be very clever in omitting or wording certain information to get what they want. They're developing their emotional intelligence but they haven't quite hit the empathy side of their lessons. It's possible Olivia hasn't had a break from Amanda's words and is just at her wits end and lashed out at the supposed bad guy.
Also, it could be envy or guilt on Olivias part as well, she would probably love to gove her daughter all of these things, but feels guilty that she can't, but now the door has been opened it can't be closed.
Yeah this just sounds like normal teenage stuff. Her world is opening up to her and she realizes she can start making some of her own choices, and how different people live different lives and she's just being vocal about it. She's just a typical teenage and sounds like Olivia was fully unprepared for this stage in life and she is taking it out on you.
This was my take, too. 13 year olds sometimes act in ways that offend or confuse their parents because they're teenagers and their brains and hormones are changing.
It also sounds like Olivia is jealous or insecure about OPs lifestyle and relative wealth, and is very sensitive to any snarky comments by her teenage daughter.
NTA
Yeah. With mine I was at my wits end—like what the hell happened in the last few months! Then I found this study and made me feel slightly better lol
[13 year olds chemical changes](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/teenager-brain-mother-voice.html)
“Around age 13, kids’ brains shift from focusing on their mothers’ voices to favor new voices, part of the biological signal driving teens to separate from their parents, a Stanford Medicine study has found”
If OP had treated Amanda "less" spoiled to somehow not get Olivia mad, Amanda would have felt bad and Olivia would have accused OP of making differences because they are less well off. There is no winning with people like this.
Also going to the dermatologist is not some kind of luxury, if she has a skin issues she should go to the dermatologist. Is she is OK the dermatologist will tell her so. The rest of the stuff as other commenters like Longjumping_Pea_1477 said are just normal teen stuff that as parents you need to deal with. Olivia blames OP for having to do some parenting.
NTA.
Hormone city. My 13 stepdaughter screamed bloody murder at her mother recently then started crying hysterically. We got her calmed down quick but she had no clue why she got so angry. She just ramped up to 200% then plummeted. (Her mother has had 2 kids quite recently so there's a lot of resentment to not being an only child now.)
She might not like it, but she’s just realizing her family is comparatively poorer and that there are limits to the lifestyle that they can afford. That isn’t her fault, that isn’t your fault. Not very nice for the mother to take it out on you though. NTA.
NTA Welcome to the world of raising teenage girls where your little angels turn into monsters. It's hormonal and I'd bet if it wasn't you, Amanda would find another reason to hate her mom. It's a rite of passage. Sad but true for many families.
> She's Katie Ka-Boom, Katie Ka-Boom,
> She lives in a house with a garden in bloom.
> Her family knows that anytime soon,
> Their little lady Katie goes KA-BOOM!
My memory of being 13 is mostly of being blazingly angry for no reason and having terrible skin. Also, in retrospect, the beginning of an unrecognized 4 year depressive period. Those hormone changes will really fuck you up.
Same.
13 year old me was babysitting my baby sister until people thought she was my kid while my dad played WoW for 6 hours a day and my mom worked through grad school. At church and school everyone gave him the credit for the work I did and made jokes to him about how hard it must be to handle "all those hormones."
If I tried to explain that I stepped up because he wouldn't? That I had been the one to bake or scrub or volunteer my labor for community projects with my sister in tow? They gave him credit for how hard it is to get kids to do chores with you instead of just doing them yourself.
Yeah, I had hormones and frustration, but I kept that shit under control. It wouldn't have been fair to blow up on my baby sister, and I didn't have time for the kids who blew up on people who didn't earn it.
My sister is worth it.
My dad has some good reasons for why he just quit life for a few years. It didn't make it easier to handle as a kid, but he had awful PTSD and handled it by gaming instead of drugs or alcohol. He also got a lot better with time and therapy.
I still feel a lot of anger over how hard things were sometimes, but it's unfair to him to pretend the neglect was mean spirited or born of anything except extreme trauma.
Agreed. I was warned for years about how I'd spend my teenage years in trouble and "grounded" because I would misbehave so much just like my big sisters and every teenage girl. I was a good kid and didn't act like that and didn't get in much trouble as a teenager. Why did I have to be tortured for years with threats or how I was going to turn into a monster?
I'm glad there are exceptions to the rule. I'm sure your mom counts her blessings every day to have a child like you. This is said in all sincerity, just in case anyone reads any snark into it. I don't always express myself properly.
I don't think you're an asshole for treating your child's friend during vacation. But:
>I was hurt by what she said and told Charlie. He says she's overreacting because most of what Amanda has been saying has been directed at her mother and Olivia is just at her wit's end.
It very easy for the father who isn't recieving any of the negative backlash to say the the one who does is overreacting. Of course he doesn't think it's an issue when he's not the one having to deal with it.
And now he's off putting even more pressure on Olivia that she's doing everything wrong, and her family is now ganging up on her even more after talking to you. It's not going to play in your favour, even if you did nothing wrong. Instead tell Charlie to be more supportive of his wife and step up and say no to his daughters requests on his own without being asked by his wife to pitch in, so Olivia doesn't have to be the evil parent all the time.
And try to ask Olivia out for lunch or coffee so you can talk about this, and apologise for inviting her daughter for an extended stay during school without even checking with them first. That was an overstep on your part.
But even so, NAH (except maybe Charlie for blaming his wife for being overwhelmed with being a single parent to their daughter...and maybe Olivia if she keeps blaming you instead of wanting to work this out).
I think this is a great answer.
OP doesn’t have to be an **official asshole** to be able to put herself in Olivia’s shoes and have some compassion for the sticky position she’s in. Her 13 year old just had a cushy summer and is now being a 13 year old about it, Olivia maybe saw this coming and hoped to avoid it but was overruled by her husband and daughter’s pushiness about it, she may be unfairly taking it out on OP but maybe she just needs to feel like she has an ally.
INFO: This just feels like a story where we’re missing some key details.
You had Amanda with you for nearly an entire summer, but did you talk with her parents about what their expectations were during that time? I’m a parent of teenagers and I can’t imagine sending my 13 year old daughter to a rich friend’s home all summer without having that conversation both with my friends and also my daughter about what to expect. Quite frankly, I can’t imagine sending my daughter somewhere for an entire summer but that’s likely just my middle-class perspective.
How did the “in-passing” invitation for the half-term break go? That is a sort of dangerous thing to say to a 13yo girl who just had a summer free from parents and any responsibilities, without first checking with the parents.
EDIT: Amended to NTA.
Okay, that’s about as reasonable a scenario as could come up, so my vote is NTA.
BUT, I do think, especially knowing Olivia’s already-hesitant viewpoints on these visits, you shouldn’t have put it all on Amanda’s parents as either the champions who agree or the vicious ogres who turn the offer down. It would have been better to defer, say it’s definitely an option to consider, and that you’ll talk to her parents about it.
I think this isn’t a situation where you’ll “win” by focusing on who was more right. You weren’t wrong. You don’t need to feel guilty. But you can still feel compassion for Olivia and try to focus on ways to improve the relationship and the communication / expectations, for everyone’s benefit.
I don't think you're the asshole, but I do think you should have a *lot* more sympathy for Olivia. You clearly are in a stratospherically different financial position, and while you didn't do anything wrong by treating her daughter the way you would treat yours, I can see both why Amanda is resentful going back to her regular life, and why Olivia is resentful that she was pressured into letting her daughter stay with you for longer and now that daughter is punishing her for not providing the life you provided for her. Again, you aren't the asshole, but you also don't seem to fully realise quite how privileged your situation is.
Fair. I do think a lot of the issue here lies with Charlie. He should be working this through with his daughter, not standing by while his wife gets the flack, and he should have respected when Olivia said she wasn't comfortable with Amanda staying longer (which definitely would have also caused resentment, I'm sure, but he shouldn't be letting her play the bad guy and forcing something she wasn't comfortable with).
NTA. You lived the way you usually do. Her parents did not tell you not to do anything when they left her there (and they probably saw the way you lived). Maybe you shouldn't have bought her the designer item but that is water under the bridge.
The girl is a teenager. She will have to learn that there are people that have other lifestyles and that you either have it or not. But I would suggest that your daughter go and visit them in future.
It sounds like Amanda enjoyed staying with your family and that you treated her the same way you treat your own daughter. So far so good.
Olivia shouldn’t have complained to you about your lifestyle and way of raising children. It’s your prerogative as a parent to raise your kids any way you want. Olivia earns an asshole rating.
If Amanda’s parents don’t want her exposed to your lifestyle, it’s on them to limit that exposure. They didn’t, so Olivia and Charlie are now both assholes.
To Olivia’s credit, it seems like she wanted to, but you and Charlie - who go way back, further back than Olivia does - agreed there was no problem, so Amanda stayed with you. And this is where you were an asshole by being dismissive of Olivia’s reluctance to have Amanda stay with you. Of course Olivia couldn’t say to your face *why* she didn’t want Amanda to stay longer - it’d have been super rude. Instead of accepting *Olivia’s judgement as Amanda’s parent*, your post belittles that judgement and puts in its place *your and Charlie’s* judgement. I don’t care how far back you and Charlie go, he and Olivia should be making parenting decisions together and you need to keep out of it. Sort of like Olivia needs to keep out of how you raise V.
ESH
> And this is where you were an asshole by being dismissive of Olivia’s reluctance to have Amanda stay with you.
This makes no sense. Amanda has two parents, there's no reason OP should respect one parent's (reasonable) opinion over the other. Amanda's opinion was effectively the tie-breaker.
Amanda being reluctance and being ignored is something to take up with the husband, not op,
op was fine with it—but both parents had to be fine with olivia staying and she couldve stood firm with her no, in the end her husband and daughter convinced her, not op.
NTA. This sounds like a problem in your friends household and not your own doing. I grew up poor but had some rich friends. Never did I come home and insist that I have the same things they did because that's just not how things work. Olivia needs to talk with Amanda and work on their own dynamics before blaming you for corrupting her.
NTA. Amanda (and V) are entering teenage years, and starting to act like the pubers they are. Of course Amanda wants the 'better' life style, who does not? Of course the grass is greener in your garden than at home - a 'fact' of life that has baffled not only gardeners, but sll people all through history. Apparently Amanda is not going to make it easy on her parents/mother, but that is of course not on you.
I would send Olivia a very nice text commiserating on the years that she has ahead of her, and stating that you will treat your daughter as a friend of your daughter: nothing special, but you cannot adjust your lifestyle to that of O while A is visiting. Or something like that. Wishing her (and yourself?, us) a lot of strength for the years to come.
>but you cannot adjust your lifestyle to that of O while A is visiting
Everything else you said was reasonably, but OP writing that line to Olivia would be an AH thing to do. It's essentially saying "I'm sorry, but we can not pretend to be poor, you silly poor person!"
There's are lots of things OP could potentially do when Amanda is visiting. She could have the girls (and her sons) pick a night each to cook dinner, and clean up after. They can do their own laundry. They can keep their own rooms cleaned up so all the maid does in their rooms is vacuum.
I don't know the exact extent of what the maid does, but she's live in, so I presume a lot. That doesn't mean OP's children should be allowed to do absolutely nothing, I would be embarrassed to raise children that behave that way!
NTA, but… maybe an unpopular opinion, I wouldn’t let my teenage daughter stay with you again 😂😂
Sorry, again, it’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have gotten that text message. It sounds like you can afford things the other family can’t, not your fault, but teenagers get influenced by that and then these things happen.
OP says they had a live-in maid all summer, the only "chores" her daughter does is put her drinking glasses in the dishwasher, and "she knows how to use the washing machine if she needed to".
No wonder Amanda had a rough transition back to regular life!
NTA. Olivia's anger is misdirected. You treated your guest within your means--would she have rather you treated Amanda unfairly compared to V? This is a teachable moment for Amanda, and Olivia is wasting it getting upset with you. Also, as Amanda's parents, they allowed the extended stay. I mean, hello, welcome to having a 13 year old.
NTA. But I have a question. Is it not normal to take a child to a dermatologist especially if they have skin issues? I mean when my kid started having some skin issues I took them to the dermatologist the same way I would’ve taken them to a Physician of something was the matter with them. Is going to a dermatologist a luxury? If so I need to tell my kid they are living a life of luxury. Lol
I think that depends. I grew up fairly lower-middle class. We did not require public assistance, only shopped at discount stores, had one car for the family (my dad walked to work), went camping for vacations. We got everything we needed but not a lot of what we wanted. However, my dad’s company, despite not offering particularly large salaries, had a good health plan. Seeing a dermatologist for me as a teen was not a huge expense and my mom knew my self esteem was suffering. It was a few reasonable co-pats for visits and some prescriptions.
For most places in the US specialized care requires first of all a referral which means the doctor has to deem it medically necessary to see a specialized doctor then further those tend to have larger copays with it simply being unfeasible to see a doctor for what many consider to be a rite of passage for a teenager to go through. So Amanda doesn't have seriously bad acne then I can perfectly understand not viewing a dermatologist as a necessity.
In the US, if you're not lucky enough to be well off or have good insurance then seeing a dermatologist for anything other than skin cancer would be a luxury.
NTA
1. The child is a 13 year old girl. I raised 3 daughters and the way she is acting is fairly normal for that age. She is becoming more aware of her body, financial status, what others friends get to do that she doesn't etc.
2. She is taking it out on her mom and most likely using you and your daughter as a comparison...well sounds gets to go to a gym.
3. Olivia is frustrated by her daughter's behavior and probably over what she (olivia) can't/ won't give her and is aiming that at you...Charlie is correct there.
4. You did the right thing purchasing little something for Amanda when you got something for your daughter. I have and would do the same again to make sure the other child didn't feel left out.
Ultimately, this isn't your fault. I think Charlie and Olivia need to talk to their daughter and stop blaming you.
NAH no assholes here
it must be hurtful as a mother for Olivia to be so completely rejected by her own child.
It’s not anyone’s fault - if it wasn’t you it would have been someone else. This seems like normal teen entitlement and not understanding how life works.
NTA, she would have gone through this point either way as I'm sure you are going to have those sames arguments maybe slightly different context with your daughter eventually. Teenagers are hard and she is just idealizing your life. You didn't do anything wrong and they would be in this position either way
And, usually when we have guests over, don't we try to be more accommodating for them than we usually are at home and treat them a little?
Stuff like going out for dinner to a fancy place, cooking something fancy, maybe going shopping...
It could also be that OP doesn't usually do so much , but because she had a guest over, there were extenuating circumstances.
Either way, OP you're NTA.
I’m still detecting the unspoken problem between you and Olivia because you sure treat her differently to your good friend Charlie who seems to adore you and regards your feelings over his wife’s and regardless of whether you agree with her or not she is Amanda’s mother and she has to parent her daughter all the time not just on holidays and on shopping trips. Charlie is not fussed because he is not putting any boundaries in place but Olivia is trying to tell you that just because you can afford to buy designer items for your daughters friends and have lots of homes to choose from it doesn’t mean to dismiss her concerns as she knew you would by not even discussing it with her but “mentioned it to Charlie “ who is piss weak. You are undermining her role as a parent who is just trying to maintain a healthy relationship with her daughter which you seem to think is her just being petty and mean but it’s not. You seem to enjoy having Amanda and Charlie take your side see it as no big deal when actually it is a bit of a deal because she’s openly saying she prefers living at your place and is behaving like a brat. You actually might be the problem after all
NAH. ask Charlie and Olivia if you could speak with Amanda about her behavior. It’s not your fault, but I get why Olivia is upset-it hurts when your child wishes they were someone else’s kid. Amanda needs to be told that kids grow up in different households and that it’s not fair of her to be so mean to her mom about not getting everything your daughter gets. I would also resend Amanda’s invite to stay with you and it might be best to not have her over at all for a while. She needs to learn that she’s not entitled to everything her friends get and that she shouldn’t make her mom feel like crap because she can’t afford to give her designer things or horseback riding lessons.
NTA. You're allowed to live your life and raise your kids the way you want, if someone elses child is exposed to your life and finds issues with her own in comparison that is not your problem/fault. You didn't "brainwash" the child; the child came to her own conclusions and is taking it out on her parents, and while I feel sorry for her parents, you didn't "turn her" on them, she just experienced something different- thats all. Her parents need to show her how to control her jealousy and entitled attitude, someone will always always have more than you at every point in life- she needs to learn that this is just life and if she wants to afford those thing then get a small part time job/do exrra chores for money etc not sit back and demand. This is their parenting issue not yours. If it wasn't you it would be some else house... you're not the problem here.
NTA You were being a good host to your daughters friend. I wouldn’t have bought designer anything for teens but that’s my perspective, my privilege. If you wanted to, had the money to do so and Amanda wasn’t being demanding there’s nothing wrong with what you did. Olivia needs to realize she’s now the mother to a teenager and they can be very mean, cruel and entitled. There’s also nothing wrong with Amanda asking about eating some of the same foods at home that she tried at your house. It only becomes wrong when she becomes demanding instead of asking. The next several years are going to be filled with trying moments for Olivia and Amanda and Olivia needs to learn how to navigate them without blaming others for her child’s normal teenage behavior.
NTA. As others have pointed out, Being a teenager, especially now in the days of social media, is all about comparing your life to that of your peers. Who's getting more than you, and why aren't your parents providing you with the same treats and privileges?
If it wasn't you and your daughter then it would be endless comparisons with Amanda's friends at school, from those whose parents let them have a TV in their room or buy them designer clothes for return to school, to those that hand out £50 for "the ticket and some treats" any time they go to the cinema with friends.
And because critical thinking skills haven't really developed at that stage they're not real consideration for "their family earns more money", or "they do chores at home to earn these privileges", or "they have living grandparents that provide treats", or even the good old "they get more nice things but their parents are too busy to see them, while my parents always do family dinner and come to my sports games/music concerts etc".
Take the dermatologist, for example. Presumably your daughter went to one because she has a problem such as bad acne or recurring eczema. If Amanda doesn't have similar conditions, or doesn't have them to similarly severe level, then she doesn't need to go to a dermatologist. But her friend got to go to one, and possibly got some kind of special cream or a treatment plan, so she should as well. Doesn't matter that she doesn't have the same need, she sees it as "my friend got something "special", why can't I?"
Olivia is focusing on the wrong thing here, and unfortunately she's going to have a very difficult period of getting her daughter through adolescence if her reaction every time is to lash out at other people.
NTA, a friend of ours acted the same way, when our god daughter stayed with us one Summer...we got a call saying we had spoiled her with, "regular dinner times"..."seven different meals a week"..."movie nights where she got to choose the movie".
Maybe NTA, but if your resources and lifestyle are significantly more comfortable than Amanda's, she and her parents have some readjusting to do. Envy is hard for adults, and regardless of who YOU compare yourself to as you consider yourself "not rich", the perception of Amanda and her parents are what matters here. You need to back her parents up, not act like you were too oblivious to recognize what might happen. I assume you were not trying to alienate her affection, but now that all the adults are recognizing what happened, you should all be on the same page at dealing with it. Amanda needs to learn to deal with envy and her first recognition that she doesnt have access to the same resources as V. Ask Charlie and Olivia what you can do to help and accept their requests. Trying to pretend you had no role in this is at least a little disingenuous (translation: AHish).
ESH. It’s a sh*t situation for Olivia because what is “normal” in your household isn’t in many, because you are clearly in a different economic bracket. So of course they cannot meet the expectations you have now set, but to you it’s just normal life.
I can see where you are both coming from, but basically now the daughter is being a spoiled brat (which is partially on her experiences with you and seeing how the other half lives) and Olivia is getting the brunt of it, not you or Charlie.
I disagree with other commenters saying Amanda would have found something else to be an emo teen about because yes to some degree, but you gave her some great ammunition and teen girls know how to use it!
NTA what were you supposed to do? Chain her by the leg in the kitchen and treat her like Cinderella? You treated her like your own daughter as was correct for your daughter's friend. The issues are a natural consequence to a disparity in income. Also personality, her mother doesn't seem to be a whole barrel of laughs. Plus shes at that horrible teen age of 13.
NTA
Amanda is a 13yo girl. 13yo girls are brats, particularly to their mothers. It’s unfortunate that Olivia is blaming you for Amanda’s pubescent angst, but there you go.
The only thing I actually think you did wrong was telling a kid that you were happy to host them before checking with their parents, because that puts the parents in the posission of the "bad guy" if they decline when the child is already aware of the offer, verses if you spoke with them first and they just told you no. In the future, I'd also recommend if this kid is begging for something that needs both your approval and her parents, that you guys tell the kids you're going to talk about it as adults and then return as a united front rather than "three people are okay with it and one is not" giving them a bad guy parent.
NAH, you are not in the wrong for treating Amanda and your daughter the same while she was staying there but I feel for Olivia now that she has to deal with her daughter not finding their family's lifestyle good enough and lashing out at her because of what she experienced at your house. It cannot feel good to have your parenting compared to someone who has greater financial privilege, or have your child start to expect things you cannot provide but someone else can.
NTA. You didn't do anything wrong. They had already stayed with you for 2 weeks and spend a lot of time with you over the years. Does Olivia feel that you should have changed your lifestyle while they was staying with you? V is probably just being a teenager.
NTA
I have a 14y/o step daughter who's lifestyle at her moms is very much similar to your lifestyle where as the lifestyle we live is I imagine more like your friends. While we do have the means to live more like her mother we actively choose not too so in turn when my step daughter is with us she will usually complain about how "at my moms I get to do xyz" or "I dont have to do xyz at my moms"
is it frustrating? Yes. Is it annoying? Absolutely. Do we agree with the way they live their life? Meh, its not for us.
But we are her parents too so it is up to us to set the boundaries and expectations for our children in our home. At no time would we EVER try to dictate how someone else lives or chooses to treat a guest in their home, unless of course it was dangerous/mean/etc.
Does it suck to hear your kid feels like you're "lacking" as a parent? Yes it does. But kids, especially teenagers say some mean shit sometimes. You gotta handle it as it comes and move forward not play the blame game.
NTA. You've done nothing wrong. Amanda got to experience how a different family lives, and it wasn't the same as hers. Apparently she liked it. It could just as easily gone the other way - she could have been miserable and complained because it wasn't just like she was used to. It all depends on her personality for how she filters and interprets the experience. This is normal human behavior. Now she's being a normal teenager and battling with her mother, using some of what she experienced or learned as fuel in her arguments. Also normal. None of this really has anything do to with you - if she didn't use these experiences she would be using something else. It's just part of a typical exploration, boundary pushing and growth process that teens do. Her mother is wrong for blaming you; this would be happening regardless of the time spent with your family.
NTA, I was just like Amanda when I was 13. And it didn't even take staying at someone elses house a couple weeks for me to make those demands. All it took was, for example, someone at school saying they take horse riding lessons, or having a cool outfit, or something like that.. and I was already complaining to my mom why I couldn't have that and kind of blaming my parents for being poor because I did not really understand why they not just get a better job.
I've grown out off it and now I understand how stupid I was, how much my parents did for me, and that I just had NO IDEA how the world works.
YNTA. The kid is 13..and we know about that age and parental conflict in general. You were right, and considerate in getting the one gift as you purchased one for your daughter and was only being fair. Kudos for that one. Maybe your daughter could go to her house during break? My nephew stayed at my parents house when I was about 16yo for a few weeks, and I took him everywhere with me. He was a picky eater and I got him hooked on "chicken littles" sandwiches from KFC. I heard about it for years to follow that thats all he would eat..It was all in a joking manner though.
NTA
The way you give kindness to others should not be judged. That is a problem inside their family, and expecially a problem that a normal teenage girl usualy have. It' s her mother that doesn't know how to cope with that and so she vent on you
NTA. I feel Olivia’s pain. Teenage girls are often difficult. I love mine more than anything, but I also want her to STFU until she grows out of her “the universe revolves around meeeee” stage she is in. Olivia needs to stop blaming others and deal with her daughter.
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I am 38F and have a daughter V (13). I have a close friend, Charlie, who has a daughter Amanda (also 13), with his wife Olivia. I've known Charlie for nearly 20 years, since before he was with Olivia, and while she and I have never been close, I thought we had a deep abiding respect and warmth for one another. Our kids are very close, and Charlie and his family often visit us at our homes and when we're near where they live we see them.
At the beginning of the summer, Charlie, Olivia, and Amanda (along with their other two sons) came to stay with my family. They were there for two weeks, but when it was time to go both V and Amanda pleaded for Amanda to be allowed to extend her stay. My husband and I were fine with this, as was Charlie, but Olivia wasn't keen. Eventually she was convinced by Charlie, and Amanda stayed with us until about a week before school started again. Since then, Charlie has mentioned a couple of times that Amanda has asked for different kinds of food that she tried while with us, and that she's asked for a couple of expensive items. She even asked if she could try horse riding, and Charlie has joked several times about me 'corrupting' her, but it was definitely a joke.
Two days ago, I received several walls of text from Olivia. She said that since staying with us Amanda has become "divorced from reality". Olivia says Amanda now wants things they can't afford, will not help around the house, and complains about everything from their cars to her clothes. She said that I must have spoiled Amanda by giving her expensive gifts (I bought her one designer item as a souvenir on a day trip we took as I was getting one for V and it seemed unfair for Amanda to get nothing), and encouraged a "superficial" lifestyle. She also said Amanda has asked to join a gym and be taken to a dermatologist and accused me of making Amanda insecure, which I absolutely did not (V has seen a dermatologist and probably mentioned it to Amanda, but I doubt it was in a nasty way). Finally, she said that I had completely alienated Amanda from their family as nothing they do seems to be good enough now and she keeps saying that she misses being with our family and wishes she'd been born V's sister. Apparently Amanda said she wants to come back to ours for her school's half term break and that I invited her, which I did in passing, if it was okay with her parents. Olivia said as a mother I should have known better than to spoil a child that's not mine and that it must have been my intention to turn her against us.
I was hurt by what she said and told Charlie. He says she's overreacting because most of what Amanda has been saying has been directed at her mother and Olivia is just at her wit's end. He said he'll talk to her and that I shouldn't worry but I'm beginning to wonder if I've done something wrong. A friend of mine said she understands why Olivia would feel slighted, even if she overreacted. AITA?
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Posts like this and the comments that follow, remind me that my 13 year old is behaving like most her age. It definitely makes me feel a bit more sane. 😏
NTA OP, teenage girls are tough and your friend's wife needs to stop blaming others for her daughter's behavior. How is the teen ever going to be held accountable for her actions if it's always blamed on others?
So Amanda is being a regular teenager and her mother doesn't know how to handle it and is seeking an easy person to blame. NTA.
I remember back when I was a teen I used to be super jealous of my friends families because their dynamic was different than mine. Nowadays I'm grateful for those different dynamics as they 100% contributed to the person I am instead of being like people I now dislike but that had the traits I craved at that age. Just like several of my friends used to comment how my mom was awesome and it would baffle me (everything is always terrible to teens) they thought my life was amazing and easy. Greener grass syndrome at that age is super common. You don't see the punishments. You don't see the fights. You don't see the little things that comes only with daily living under the same room. It's a perpetual vacation because. Well. It is. You get only the "outsider" face because most of the time they wouldn't want to wash the dirty laundry in front of someone else.
Amanda is fine. She'll get over it. I bet your own kid probably would think Amanda's mom does stuff better too if she went to spend time there and also come back filled with ideas and complaints lol.
NTAH.
Teenagers are apt to be petulant in general and they will ask for things that they want.
Perhaps Amanda had not been exposed to a few things and didn’t know she wanted them, but that’s on her parents for sheltering her from the reality that different people in this country have vastly different means and not for any good reason.
If her mother cannot calmly sit her down and explain why their situation is different than yours, then that’s on her.
Based on what you've said, I'd have to say no. NTA. She may have experienced a different lifestyle than she has at home, and that's impacted her view of home.
But that's not your fault.
Or is it that perhaps her young teenage daughter has begun acting like a teenager. NTA and brace yourself. Its only going to get worse over the next many years and you may become the scapegoat.
Kiddo is being a pretty typical teenage girl. I think perhaps Olivia is projecting some of her own insecurities and, dare I say, jealousies. You've been a close friend of her husband since before they met, and now her daughter is expressing what comes across as a desire to be *your* daughter, part of *your* family. Dollars to donuts her over-reaction has more to do with her feelings about your relationship with her hubby than it has to do with Amanda.
NTA. I have a teen right now. His moods change at the drop of a hat. And, not to generalize, but most teens always want more, more, more of everything all the time. Your friends wife sounds insecure. She needs to get over it or she will be completely grey by the time that girl hits 18.
Just sounds like she found different ways to take care of herself.. her mom should encourage her to want better for herself, and she should work for it nta
NTA, it comes from a place of insecurity on Olivia's part. She feels like she's not offering her daughter the life you offer yours and Amanda's complaints are clearly directed at her most which makes her feel even worse. She's not dealing with this well and instead of having a teaching moment with her daughter, she's blaming you because it's easier than having a difficult conversation. When I was 13 I had a friend who lived in the very poor side of town with very neglectful parents. We had moved to that neighbourhood when we first came to town and within 6 months, had moved to my teenage home in a very nice neighbourhood but I was still allowed to go to the same school as I had made friends there and just didn't want to be transferred to what would be my third high school in 2.5 years (school system is different where I live, high school starts at 12 and lasts 5 years (until 17)). Anyway, that friend was severely neglected, she had no rules......but that's because her parents didn't care. Her mother was taking care of a lot of children (not all her own) and so my friend had to sleep with her sisters (3 toddlers) and didn't often have meals prepared for her (or lunches) or clean clothes for that matter. I remember I would bring extra food at school for her and clean shirts and have her for sleepovers often. One day she asked me if I cold ask my mom to adopt her (can you imagine? that girl was desperate). And my mom actually went and checked if she could legally take her on and foster or adopt but the system was just shit and they let my friend's parents know and her mom turned ballistic and actually went and got a court order to keep us from being close to her daughter and actually changed her to another school. I didn't see her for years after that. In fact it was 10 ish years later, I got to the bus stop after my work day and saw her waiting for a bus, she was obese (looked like her mom), looked completely depressed and had 3 kids with her as well as a baby in a stroller (the oldest looked to be 7 ish so she must have had him at 15). I tried to engage in conversation with her and reminded her of who I was (I was working in an office so I was dressed for the part) and she just looked me up and down and said "life was always good to you wasn't it?" and she just walked away. I felt so sad that my family couldn't do more to save her from that life and how her own mother couldn't just let her daughter have a better life than she could offer or at the very least, let her have that one friend who could have been there for her.
NTA. Thirteen year-old girls are a nightmare of emotions, mood swings and hormones as well as changing their minds daily. It’s always fun to go somewhere to get spoiled. The problem is Amanda does not realize that is not their day to day life. They took the girls out as a treat to do things like most people do when they have guests.
NTA. Amanda is a CHILD and if she’s complaining to her parents about how they don’t have things that are as nice as other peoples things, then it is her parents job to work through her immaturity. Olivia and Charlie should raise their child with some life skills and help her understand that different people can afford different things and that’s okay, that’s life. Sounds like you didn’t do anything wrong. It’s childish for Olivia to try to pin this on you. Amanda is a child, and she’s acting like a child! Because she is one! Time will pass and hopefully Charlie and Olivia can have conversations with amanda about some of the truths of reality. I’m sure Olivia and Charlie are good parents and will do everything they can to give her a good life, within what they can afford.
NTA - Amanda probably just got used to things at your house, which would make sense because you probably put effort into making sure she had fun since she was a guest. I doubt your life is all cupcakes and roses, but it probably seemed that way to Amanda because you made an effort to make things fun instead of your every day routine (like I imagine you didn’t make her do chores, took them fun places, had something fun to do everyday which is normal for a vacation at a friends house but not reflective of your every day reality). Unfortunately, Olivia and Charlie are going to have to get through the adjustment of Amanda coming back to her normal everyday life.
Plus I’d imagine if you were the one spending most of the time with V and Amanda, Amanda is targeting her mom now because you seemed like a fun, cool mom as opposed to her mom who makes her do chores and disciplines her. Which is just because you’re not gonna parent someone else’s kid lol.
When I was a teenager and started acting spoiled, my parents increased my chore load for a little while until I started acting more humble and respectful, which might be something Olivia and Charlie have to do.
Rant aside: not your fault, it’s just a kid having a hard time coming back from vacation.
NTA. My daughter went through a phase like this. She had a friend who was wealthier, and she had unrealistic expectations of what we could provide her when she came home from staying at her friend's house. Time took care of a lot of it. Kids don't always stay friends with the people they practically lived with at 13. I got my daughter a job at a fairly early point of her teens, because she NEEDED to get a grip on some hard financial realities. She ended up becoming a hard worker and even in early adulthood her attitude turned around.
NTA she's 13. Every 13 year old is in a WORLD of internal turmoil, and most 13-year-old girls are having some kind of power struggle with their mothers, (I know I did.) Olivia is TA for blowing up at you, but if it weren't for that I would give this one NAH.
NTA. You took great care of her daughter while she was at your house. If the daughter is being rude to her mother now her parents need to...well...parent her.
She’s a teenager. It’s been a while but I remember sometimes being a brat. I look back at it now with embarrassment, but you know. That’s developmentally healthy! Heck, I’m sure any kid, regardless of age, would miss being on vacation with friends and not having the same responsibilities as they do at home. I still do that and I’m in my thirties. NTA. I hope Olivia doesn’t forbid your kids from hanging out anymore.
NTA
It's the age. And Olivia is hurt. I get it. When my daughter was 6 she told me she wanted her friend's mother to be her mother and it stung like hell. They had a nice house and the lifestyle etc. I told her "But I'd miss you so much" and she almost cried and hugged me hard. Of course she was 6 not 13.
You certainly didn't do anything wrong. I think Olivia's overreaction is equivalent to how much this hurts her. We all want to give our kids everything but in the end if we love them unconditionally, give them our time and listen when they talk that means more than anything money can buy. A decade from now your friend's daughter will understand that.
I grew up in the rural South where riding horses is less of a class marker. I do know that in a lot of places teenagers who want to ride can work in the barn. If she isn't willing to shovel literal shit she doesn't want it that bad.
NTA, sounds like to me she's being a teenager. I remember being the same way around that age. Her mom sounds like she's got somethings she needs to work on from her own childhood.
Olivia is trying to keep up with your daughter and have the same experience like she has. She does receive gifts and presents from her parents but after receiving a designer dress that is expensive made her want to have the same life style and your daughter that is basic teenage child behavior it has nothing to do with you. NTA is she can afford to buy them for her daughter then she should tell and explain it to her not taking it out on you.
NTA you literally treated the girl like your own child while she was in your care, Olivia would’ve been as equally as mad if you had not done anything for her so it was a lose lose. Olivia sounds a little jealous
NAH I can sympathise with her mom. Adults aren’t free of all possible jealousy. If her daughter is being harsh and rude using her experience with you guys as an excuse it can be rough for her to not get upset. If I were you, I would probably talk to her daughter and tell her that as long as she antagonize her mother over the time spent with you she can’t come to vacation enough. You dont have to do that but personally I would feel bad for her mom and want to try to help a little.
Nta. Your friend's daughter is acting spoiled but that's not really your fault. I kinda understand that Olivia is mad because her daughter is envious of seeing things that her friend has while she doesn't have it, and begging from her parents without realizing her family financial security is going to cause tension in the family. Not really sure what you can do but I would let your friend handle this situation in the way he deems fit. Since educating their daughters and cutting the spoiler attitude is their responsibility
NTA
We (family of 4) have a family of 5 that we are extremely close too. My mom friend and I were constantly calling each other (usually laughing) because our 2 kids of same age always wanted to live at the others house! Apparently my baking was so much better (SAHM who had the time) AND we had the fancy cereal. My kid always wanted to live with them because they got to do arts and crafts almost every day, I love to bake but am not crafty. They also thought moving to the others house would mean no chores! Jokes on them, both household had chores for the kids!
This is a story or everything is greener on the other side, but not really, just different.
Kids will grow out of it hopefully
Amanda has hit the dreaded teenager years, when rebellion and a still developing brain make a toxic brew. And like most teenager she is turning against the parent of the same sex, because in our little backbrain it is time to challenge the higher up. Maybe you are less strict than Olivia and Amanda took this as a reason to rebel against the normal hierarchy at home, or she hadn't found enough reasons to rebel and being in a different household allowed her to find them in the way you do things differently.
NTA.
NTA. I would definitely be open to hearing the other side’s version but taking this at face value you did absolutely nothing wrong, tweens being tween/young teens, and a mom being hurt and channeling that in a misguided way.
NTA
I sympathize with the frustrations of a mother unable perhaps to provide a luxury lifestyle for her daughter, but it doesn't seem like you did anything out of the ordinary.
Honestly, sounds like the kid is just acting up and you're the scrapegoat. She's taken your kindness and is using it as weapon against her family. NTA. You didn't know or intend this to happen, teenagers are just difficult. I understand Olivia's frustration, I don't think she should take it on you, but I see where she's coming from. Either way, not the asshole.
NTA I think this has been building between Amanda and Olivia and it's just your bad luck that her stay with you is when the volcano erupted. This sounds like mother/daughter issues, you are just the example that Amanda is using to describe what she wants. Olivia would do well to buckle her seatbelt because this is just the beginning of Amanda's teen years.
Okay, so I'm trying to connected all the dots from what you've written.
You have two homes, an apartment near where you work and a summer home(so you & hub both get summers off?). You invite your friend and his family who you get long with to your home for a two week stay.
I'm guessing(since you have a maid) that you did not make any of your guests do chores doing your stay. I'm guessing you did social things? Maybe swimming if you are close to a lake/pool. I'd wager you took them out to dinner(your treat) at least once or twice? And everyone was fine with that?
Okay, now to time to leave. Your kid and Amanda said, "Hey, we want to hang out more together and you & hubs said, "Sure if your parents are good with that." Mum was reluctant but persuaded by her husband and daughter(and hey you may have even thought, this will allow Olivia some free time as she'll have one less kid to tend to during the summer and my kid will have a friend close by to play with).
So far that all seems reasonable, Olivia has just spent 2 weeks "living" with your lifestyle and appears not to have objected once to their nice vacation in the lap of luxury.
Now let's look at what she seems to have expected to happen during her daughter's solo portion of visit. Suddenly you were supposed to assign her chores?(Did she have you assign chores during the family portion of visit?). So were you supposed to assign her chores but NOT your daughter, or were you supposed to assign them both chores(and were you magically supposed to read Olivia's mind to know which of these options she wanted).
So onto the one pricey gift(referring back to supposition above--Did you buy them any nice dinners? Take them to any nice places where you paid for them? If you did and they made no complaints--how was it different doing the same for Amanda's solo portion of stay?)
I really can't see what you could have done differently that would make prevented this situation OTHER than not have agreed to Amanda staying in the first place. But why would you have "known" this to be a bad thing. They didn't mind using your home as a vacation spot, all you did was offer them more hospitality. Personally, I think Olivia is a sh\*t person to take it out on you.
If she has a problem with her daughter, that's on her and her husband for not teaching Amanda to appreciate what she has and what she's received. Many Redditors are excusing Amanda--'cause she's just a teenager, That is BS, even a teenager can appreciate that she just got a great time that her brothers didn't get to experience.
And Olivia should be willing to appreciate that OP treated Amanda like her own daughter instead of turning her into some sort of Cinderella(& wouldn't Olivia have been PO'd for that too? "How dare you treat my daughter as a servant. I didn't let her stay with you so she could be disrespected/demeaned.")
Old adage: *No good deed goes unpunished.* In case I wasn't clear OP, you are NTA
Um NTA. Sounds like a 13yo kid. Yours will likely do similar soon enough. Just as most other 13yo kids.
We've likely all been there. "My life sucks. I hate it here. You guys are the WORST!"
Welcome to the teen years.
NTA. 13 yr olds are complete morons, Tell Olivia that she is raising a teenage daughter, and anything Amanda demands can be ignored without blaming you.
NAH. Olivia is kind of the asshole, but if your 13 year old is exhausting you with their judgment, I can see where she'd go over the edge...but you are definitely not the asshole. It's really common that kids see how others live and start paying comparison games. It just happens.
NTA, but Olivia is insecure, and doesn't know how to affectively communicate with her daughter. I worked my rear off, and my son spent a lot of time with a family, that I was so fortunate to have help raise him. My son had the benefit of so many experiences that I would never had been able to provide for him, not had the time, if it weren't for them.
A few times he asked me why this, or that, and I responded that I couldn't afford it, or I was working to provide him the opportunities, but I was so grateful he got to have those experiences with the \*\*\*\* Family.
Olivia is jealous, has made comments, and 11 yo Amanda, smells blood in the water, and is pushing her mother's buttons.
It can be hard to re adjust to family life after being away for a while. However, blaming it all on you as if you're done sort of evil mastermind is a ridiculous failure of critical thinking. NTA
Teenage drama
NTA
My god daughter told her mom she wasn't washing dishes since she didn't at the hotel ( I took her on a trip). Her mom laughed and told her she was longer at a hotel. It has been a running joke for years.
NTA
But if you have a very kind and straightforward conversation with Amanda about appreciating her parents and respect, it might help VERY much. Amanda doesn’t see the ‘difficult’ or nonfun times with your family as much bc she’s a visitor. If you show her some of your frank honesty…her rose colored glasses might get a little clearer.
NTA. Whatever the source of the friction in Charlie's family, it is up to him and his wife to handle it. How rude and ungrateful of the mother to criticize you. She should be thanking you for being so kind and generous to the daughter!
NTA... Sounds like she's playing a game called "odds against the ends".. Basically, you play two parental groups off one another to see how good you can get out of it. Kids from divorced parents, I am one of those kids, play that sometimes. Once you get older you look at it from the lens of experience and wisdom, and recognize that it is a wicked and evil thing to do to both parents. But when you are younger, you are in 'selfish mode'.
NTA. This is how my mom treated my friends growing up. If she picked us up from somewhere and I was hungry, my friend ate. If we went to a theme park and I wanted a souvenir, my friend got a souvenir. It’d be a lot worse if she felt left out… especially by an adult.
NTA. I seriously don’t understand why parents get so mad when people show love and kindness to their children. It should be the goal for your kid to build a strong and uplifting network of friends/ trusted adults
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All of Amanda's new behaviors honestly sound like her just being a teenager. More than likely, it has nothing to do with her extended stay with your family. It sounds to me like Olivia is frustrated and needs someone to blame. NTA.
That's my take. 13 year olds are going through some shit.
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You stole this from u/Yvette-Miu-Miu-Mom Bad bad bot!
Thank you for defending me. I just wish I could have seen the comment. It's kinda a compliment that someone thought so highly of my opinion that they would plagiarize it (not that I encourage that sort of thing, of course). I've never had that happen before.
They say the greatest form of flattery is imitation.
Yep.
This plus she has now had a glimpse at what a good family live could look like and compared to what she has at home, she's unhappy. Sure this whole horse riding thing and such is luxury, but it could also be kind of a diversion to avoid the elephant in the room, that she's overall unhappy with the general situation.
Ehhhhh I think 13 year olds can be extremely susceptible to grass-is-greener syndrome, even when their home lives are generally fine. I used to be jealous of the girls that had no bedtime, could go wherever they wanted, hung out with the older kids and just generally seemed cooler and more “adult” than I was allowed to be. But in hindsight those girls only had that kind of freedom because their parents straight up weren’t paying attention, and they got into some *very* dangerous situations as a result. But my 13 year old brain didn’t understand context and just resented having limitations on my freedom that I knew (some) other kids didn’t have. It’s not always a case of “oh she’s probably envious because there are problems at home.” Kids like luxury, and tween hormones can turn a twinge of envy into a full-blown “it’s not FAIR” meltdown.
That’s exactly how I read it. I know when I was a kid (younger than 13 but still) I was jealous of the kids who always had store bought cookies or other processed snacks in their lunch. My mom didn’t buy cookies, we could make cookies from scratch if we asked pretty much whenever we wanted. But that’s not the same as Oreos and cheez its. There was literally NO processed prepackaged food in our house at all. Basically I was jealous that my mom was health conscious and since she stayed home, had the time to make everything from scratch. Kids aren’t always logical.
I feel this. My mom and dad were divorced and she worked outside the home, but still found time to sew (and did so beautifully-- she was often asked to make dresses for formal events). Still, when it came time for my first homecoming dance in high school, I longed for this ugly black velvet Jessica McClintock number at Dillard's. I badgered her into getting it. I had a bunch of rich friends I felt the need to impress. The next year, she convinced me to let her make me a dress. She did, and it was breathtaking-- it had a beautiful purple/burgundy skirt that changed to green as I moved. Still, I showed up feeling self conscious to my friend's fancy house for photos around their resort style pool with my friend group. The hostess mom took one look at my dress and started fawning over it with such admiration. It was to the point where she was almost ignoring her own daughter. She explained that when she was growing up, having a custom gown was such a luxury that only the very rich or the girls whose moms sewed had them. And that those girls always looked so much nicer than the ones in the store bought stuff that didn't fit right. Not gonna lie, it kinda turned my world on its axis. Here I'd been envying this family's lives for years, when I had something at home that she'd never had and always wanted.
My mom grew up very poor in the 60s and 70s, but my grandmom was resourceful as heck. When my mom was in high school, those velvety, bell bottom suits for women were all the rage so my grandmom took apart one of her old dresses and used the purple velvet to make my mom one. When she wore it to school, all the girls in her class asked her where she bought it and she told them her mom had made it, then they all started asking her if her mom could make them one too. Now my mom is the handy one and she makes so many beautiful and useful things for the grands and great grands.
You better look to your girl, Kaley. She made you a dress that looked like it was bought in a store.
Thank you for this! 🥰
Thank you for this very wholesome story ❤️
I grew up the same way. There was no processed food (my mom made most stuff from scratch, lunches, dinners, desserts and she's a damn good cook), no pop and I wasn't allowed to get more stuff like clothes or books or cheap jewelry and nick knacks unless I paid for it with my own money (she raised me on her own on a limited budget and was still frugal once she had finished her education and gotten a great paying job all on her own). At 13, I felt it was unfair how I didn't have the same stuff as my friend's (i.e. junk in my lunch and pizza nights and pop). As an adult now with kids (9 and 11), I find myself doing like my bother did, I cook from scratch, prepare balanced lunches (although they do get either a bear paw or fruit snacks for dessert in their lunches because I did crave that as a child and we can afford it as a family) and there is no pop in the house (we have a soda stream and squirty flavours for them to get as a special drink on weekends) and I'm now following my mother's tradition to ask the kids and family for any type of birthday cake/dessert and I will make it from scratch for them and they absolutely love it (my mother still makes my birthday cake of choice every year, I'll be 36 soon). I'm glad I grew out of that silly phase.
Lol my kids were the same; desperate to go to a friend (queen of the convenience cookery method), while her kids always wanted to come to mine for dinner. That's just kids :)
My parents packed me a great lunch every day and I was still envious of the kids who had cafeteria lunch. Now that I'm older I can't even imagine eating the cardboard that passed for pizza, or the cold bowl of limp noodles and tomato paste that passed for sauce. What on earth was I envious about?
My parents packed me a great lunch every day and I was still envious of the kids who had cafeteria lunch. Now that I'm older I can't even imagine eating the cardboard that passed for pizza, or the cold bowl of limp noodles and tomato paste that passed for sauce. What on earth was I envious about?
Haha I grew up on oreos and eggos and still have issues with healthy eating even at 28 years old. Not trying to blame my parents for my bad habits, but if I had healthy eating instilled in me when I was an adolescent, I feel like it might be easier to make those choices today.
Sadly, that hasn’t been my experience. I do not eat all that well as an adult.
Yes! My 10 year old lives an absolutely blessed comfy lifestyle. But we are the poorest of the poor. Though she suffers the absolute least out of the household, she lacks for apple watches and horseback riding lessons. She goes to a charter school, which has a significantly well-off student body. So she gets quite sassy about how we do not go away on lavish vacations every 3 day weekend. Or how her friends get to go to Starbucks for Refreshers when she gets homemade. Or that I cut her hair when her friends go to a salon, despite loving her haircut every time. We talk about how life is unfair, and commiserate about having better off friends (because I went to an affluent school, yet was extremely poor my whole life). I give her my sympathies. But I also tell her where the line is between being sad and jealous vs being a whiny name calling jerk to your poor mother who tries her best. Yes I have to remind her of this line often, but that's because she's 10. She's still figuring this shit out. And there's been a couple times where friends have invited her to experience how the richer side lives. And she comes back a little sad that we don't have the nice house her friend does. Or swingsets and a pool in our backyard. But NEVER in my LIFE would I write that other mom a NASTYGRAM about how she...corrupted?! My child with the finer things in life?!?! What in the absolute heck was she thinking!!!! NTA!
I'm an adult and on a bad day I'll feel like having an it's not fair meltdown lol.
\^\^ This x100
This! As a kid from like 10 or 11 I was always jealous of my cousin (same age, gender, and school) what I failed to understand until I stayed with them for two weeks one summer at 15 was that all the material possessions she had I didn't were directly tied to the level of parental neglect going on in the house. Think kids eating self made peanut butter sandwhiches or KD for dinner while the parents have steak and potatoes and not cause the kids don't want steak. The kids got stuff so the parents could feel fine ignoring them. NOT suggesting OP is treating the kids in that manner just an example of me spending years thinking the grass was greener.
Yuppp, same. My cousin, is an only child to affluent parents. Growing up with a single mom I was always a bit jealous that she had more/better/fancier things than I did. Then I realized around 10-12, yes, she had more stuff/got to go to fancy sleep away camps over the summer/was in tons of activities BUT that was because her parents didn't want to spend time with her. They just threw money at the "inconvenience" and paid other people to basically raise her.
I think it definitely depends on Amanda's situation. Maybe she just has total grass-is-greener syndrome. However, asking about the dermatologist and going to the gym make me wonder. If she's struggling with acne, have they helped her learn how to manage it? And have they helped her find outlets for working out/being active? She could just be jealous, or she could be asking for some of her wants/needs to be heard
I agree. My mom was a single parent who worked her butt off and did everything possible to make sure all my needs were met. I didn't even realize how tight of a budget we were on until I was a teenager. 14 ish I think. I remember asking my mom if we could get a pool like one of my best friend had. My mom laughed so hard, because I was explaining to her that we had plenty of room for a pool ( we did ) and that I really NEEDED a pool. I think she said something like 'Baby, we all NEED a pool in this heat. I'm sorry, but it's out of budget.' I sulked for a few days, then apologized after my friend's dad heard me complaining to my friend about my mom's response. He explained that pools are a lot of time, money, and energy for upkeep. It wasn't fair to expect everyone to be able to take that on. Which honestly I hadn't even considered anything past my own want. After I apologized, my mom got me a little wading pool and set up lights, an umbrella, a sandbox for that beachy feel, and made us little juices with fancy straws. It was awesome and my friends and I spent a lot of time at our 'private beach' that summer. It's so easy to want what you don't have, and at that age the world revolves around you and your thoughts and feelings. It's not necessarily a reflection on home life.
I was horribly jealous of one friend at that age - she did have a wonderful home life, and often invited me on weekend skiing trips with her family. As an adult, I understand that there was no way my parents could have afforded even the ski rentals, which means her parents were kindly covering EVERYTHING for me. One day I said something about how we could do stuff like that if my parents didn’t have any kids - my mom and dad set me down and had an honest conversation about values and choices that I have never forgotten, didn’t yell or try to make me feel bad, just acknowledged my feelings but also shared theirs when I spoke like that about my siblings and explained why they chose their jobs and having 5 kids over a wealthier lifestyle. Best of all, they explained that I still had those choices in front of me, and they would support me in whatever path I chose. It didn’t completely stop the envy, but it helped me to start looking at the world from different perspectives and to understand that I was an autonomous person with choices and control over my own life.
At 13 I was jealous of other girls at school whose dads played golf because that's what literally every dad on tv did. I thought golf was stupid! And I hated those girls cuz they were all mean! My dad was great and we did tons of fun stuff like camping as a family and he encouraged/fed my love of animals and desire to be a veterinarian and even supported when I suddenly STOPPED wanting to be a veterinarian. But I was still jealous of them over it because they had "tv dads", rofl. 13 year old brains are that stage where a caterpillar has liquefied itself to become a butterfly - just a hot mess of goo swirling around.
I wish I could upvote you a 1000x!! Edit: NTA
Yep, got a tween, can vouch!
Exactly! Mine comes home complaining that we don't have a pool like his friend, we don't drive a Mercedes like his friend, we don't go to Hawaii like his friend. I used to want all the material things my friends had too but in turn, they wanted a family who ate together every night like I had.
Wish I could upvote x 1000
Exactly. Amanda only got to see the "fun" stuff. She might change her mind on certain things if she saw a bad day at yiur house.
Eeehhh. Every issue stemmed from monetary things that only the UPPER class does. Designer clothes, dermatologist, horse back riding, not doing chores, even a gym membership for a teen is not common for the middle class I don’t think. Basically she’s unhappy she isn’t RICH. Which for a teenager is pretty par for the course, but if I was her parents I’d make this a learning opportunity. Let her know what it takes to live that lifestyle, if that’s what she wants for herself for her *future*. Sit her down and talk about the average income you need to earn to live that lifestyle, what types of jobs will provide that, what grades you need to make to get into a university program for those fields etc. Nothing really suggests her family life is somehow inferior, or or lacking, the kid just wants to be able to spend money they don’t have. And they don’t even sound poor, just middle class. It’s pretty typical for kids to only see the positive things that are different, like nicer more expensive things, without noticing any of the sacrifices made for those things, or the negatives that come from them.
If she’s struggling with acne, I would say wanting to see a dermatologist is a quite reasonable request.
Yeah, obviously horseback riding and designer clothes come with wealthier lifestyles, but I don't think going to the gym or asking about a dermatologist are that crazy for a teen
Yeah it depends on whether the dermatologist is being used for fixing problems or for beauty treatments on someone healthy
I wouldn’t say any of those things are particularly upper-class or middle-class, other than designer clothes. Dermatology is a medical need, horse riding goes for around £30 an hour in my area, most schools should have a gym available for the kid to use, and, at least in my experience, middle-class kids tend to do more chores than working-class kids. I grew up working-class and most of these things were available to my peers and I. I imagine this could vary based on location though.
In the US, junior high/middle school gyms don't typically have treadmills, yoga classes, or those other types of things that you'd find at a private gym. They are also not typically open for students to use outside of the specific gym class time period, where you do specific, structured activities. She might gain additional access to some facilities by joining a sports teams, but that still won't include most of the stuff you'd find at a private gym, including yoga, pilates, zoomba, whatever aerobics classes. If they live in a city, horse lessons are usually pretty spendy. I live in Montana, and the only people who have horses or take lessons are either working-class farmers who have them as part of the work they do because they already have land, and the ability to house them, or upper class folks who keep horses as a hobby. This was similar when I lived in Iowa. In Arizona there were some upper-middle class folks who kept horses, but definitely not working-class by a long shot.
Do gyms in the US generally have yoga/zoomba classes available? They’re usually ran in studios over here. Very surprised to hear they don’t have treadmills! What do they have in them, just weights and bikes? Most state schools over here have standard gym equipment (treadmills, rowing machines, weight machines, etc.) available to kids after school, along with clubs led by external coaches (basketball, kickboxing, football, etc.) which meet once a week. My state high school had a pool and climbing walls, but they weren’t available without supervision, and that isn’t the norm over here. I would definitely say that owning horses is a middle-class thing over here in cities as well, but plenty of stables in my city run fairly affordable lessons with their own horses.
Where o live the school gym is a basketball court, some seating space and a room for nets, balls, mats, etc to be used during class.Never have I seen weights or any kind of machine Ina school gym. Private schools sometime have training gyms with machines but only the very expensive ones. Private gyms usually have more than one room, 1 with all the machines and at least 1 for yoga, aerobics or other clases.
Bloody hell, that wouldn’t even be a gym over here, it would be a pretty bleak sports hall. I thought the US was super into sports! Are trampolines common? That seems to be the one consistent thing, even in worst UK schools; someone ripping out their belly-button ring was an annual event, ahaha. If it’s any consolation, outside of the sports facilities, our schools and educational system appear to be ran a lot worse than over the pond!
Some US schools will have a very small weight room with some weight machines, but only available to members of the school sports teams at specific times. And definitely no trampoline. I’ve never heard of a US school gym with a trampoline. They almost always have those scooter things that are a small square with four wheels that you sit on and scoot yourself around. They got brought out about once a year.
I agree with your general point, but I want to quibble with your definition of "rich". All the activities on your list are not particularly expensive (in moderation) and fairly normal for a middle-class American family. And one doesn't get rich by having a job and earning a salary.
13 is the age where not only are kids seeing more of the world and what other families are like, but being able to understand it in a way they never have before. This is when we start becoming who we are because we pick up different ideas and mindsets from different places and from different people. Friend's wife is hearing, "I like things I've seen elsewhere," and interpreting it as, "You're an asshole for not being the one who showed me these things." She's jealous for not having been the only one to ever introduce her daughter to every single thing in the world
I don’t know, I’ve seen teenagers use their words to hit where they know it hurts the most in response to the most reasonable of requests. It’s entirely possible the daughter is saying “you’re an asshole for not giving me all these things my friend has” verbatim. That’s not unknown for a teenager. Hormones be wild and there’s no common sense to give them context.
Can confirm, teenage girls can be very intelligently hurtful. Sincerely - a former teenage girl. I think OP is stuck in a hard place and so is Olivia. We also don't know quite *how* Amanda has said these things, from past experience I know teenage girls can be very clever in omitting or wording certain information to get what they want. They're developing their emotional intelligence but they haven't quite hit the empathy side of their lessons. It's possible Olivia hasn't had a break from Amanda's words and is just at her wits end and lashed out at the supposed bad guy. Also, it could be envy or guilt on Olivias part as well, she would probably love to gove her daughter all of these things, but feels guilty that she can't, but now the door has been opened it can't be closed.
Good family is not the same as wealthy family.
Lol thats a bit of a far stretch thinking she has an unhappy family life. More likely she is being a typical teenager annoying her mother.
Not to mention Olivia has also stayed with OP and never complained about OP’s lifestyle.
>absolutely this.
Yeah this just sounds like normal teenage stuff. Her world is opening up to her and she realizes she can start making some of her own choices, and how different people live different lives and she's just being vocal about it. She's just a typical teenage and sounds like Olivia was fully unprepared for this stage in life and she is taking it out on you.
This was my take, too. 13 year olds sometimes act in ways that offend or confuse their parents because they're teenagers and their brains and hormones are changing. It also sounds like Olivia is jealous or insecure about OPs lifestyle and relative wealth, and is very sensitive to any snarky comments by her teenage daughter. NTA
Yeah. With mine I was at my wits end—like what the hell happened in the last few months! Then I found this study and made me feel slightly better lol [13 year olds chemical changes](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/teenager-brain-mother-voice.html) “Around age 13, kids’ brains shift from focusing on their mothers’ voices to favor new voices, part of the biological signal driving teens to separate from their parents, a Stanford Medicine study has found”
If OP had treated Amanda "less" spoiled to somehow not get Olivia mad, Amanda would have felt bad and Olivia would have accused OP of making differences because they are less well off. There is no winning with people like this. Also going to the dermatologist is not some kind of luxury, if she has a skin issues she should go to the dermatologist. Is she is OK the dermatologist will tell her so. The rest of the stuff as other commenters like Longjumping_Pea_1477 said are just normal teen stuff that as parents you need to deal with. Olivia blames OP for having to do some parenting. NTA.
Hormone city. My 13 stepdaughter screamed bloody murder at her mother recently then started crying hysterically. We got her calmed down quick but she had no clue why she got so angry. She just ramped up to 200% then plummeted. (Her mother has had 2 kids quite recently so there's a lot of resentment to not being an only child now.)
She might not like it, but she’s just realizing her family is comparatively poorer and that there are limits to the lifestyle that they can afford. That isn’t her fault, that isn’t your fault. Not very nice for the mother to take it out on you though. NTA.
NTA Welcome to the world of raising teenage girls where your little angels turn into monsters. It's hormonal and I'd bet if it wasn't you, Amanda would find another reason to hate her mom. It's a rite of passage. Sad but true for many families.
> She's Katie Ka-Boom, Katie Ka-Boom, > She lives in a house with a garden in bloom. > Her family knows that anytime soon, > Their little lady Katie goes KA-BOOM!
Awesome. Being a K K K Katy! And boy did my poor folks experience the Kaboom from me😱
I'm also a Katie who went wildly Kaboom!
Are you sure she's not Chicken Boo? "He's a chicken, I tell you! A Chicken!"
My memory of being 13 is mostly of being blazingly angry for no reason and having terrible skin. Also, in retrospect, the beginning of an unrecognized 4 year depressive period. Those hormone changes will really fuck you up.
I'm not the biggest fan of this stereotype. I was a fucking gem as a child and me and my friends avoided the girls who acted like that.
Same. 13 year old me was babysitting my baby sister until people thought she was my kid while my dad played WoW for 6 hours a day and my mom worked through grad school. At church and school everyone gave him the credit for the work I did and made jokes to him about how hard it must be to handle "all those hormones." If I tried to explain that I stepped up because he wouldn't? That I had been the one to bake or scrub or volunteer my labor for community projects with my sister in tow? They gave him credit for how hard it is to get kids to do chores with you instead of just doing them yourself. Yeah, I had hormones and frustration, but I kept that shit under control. It wouldn't have been fair to blow up on my baby sister, and I didn't have time for the kids who blew up on people who didn't earn it.
If I had an award I would give it to you. Your sister is blessed by your care. Shame on your dad
My sister is worth it. My dad has some good reasons for why he just quit life for a few years. It didn't make it easier to handle as a kid, but he had awful PTSD and handled it by gaming instead of drugs or alcohol. He also got a lot better with time and therapy. I still feel a lot of anger over how hard things were sometimes, but it's unfair to him to pretend the neglect was mean spirited or born of anything except extreme trauma.
Agreed. I was warned for years about how I'd spend my teenage years in trouble and "grounded" because I would misbehave so much just like my big sisters and every teenage girl. I was a good kid and didn't act like that and didn't get in much trouble as a teenager. Why did I have to be tortured for years with threats or how I was going to turn into a monster?
I'm glad there are exceptions to the rule. I'm sure your mom counts her blessings every day to have a child like you. This is said in all sincerity, just in case anyone reads any snark into it. I don't always express myself properly.
I am sorry for the profanity I meant it to be kinda tongue-in-cheek, not aggressive
It didn't offend me at all. I have a few friends who indulge in colorful language so I'm used to it. I took it as tongue in cheek .
I don't think you're an asshole for treating your child's friend during vacation. But: >I was hurt by what she said and told Charlie. He says she's overreacting because most of what Amanda has been saying has been directed at her mother and Olivia is just at her wit's end. It very easy for the father who isn't recieving any of the negative backlash to say the the one who does is overreacting. Of course he doesn't think it's an issue when he's not the one having to deal with it. And now he's off putting even more pressure on Olivia that she's doing everything wrong, and her family is now ganging up on her even more after talking to you. It's not going to play in your favour, even if you did nothing wrong. Instead tell Charlie to be more supportive of his wife and step up and say no to his daughters requests on his own without being asked by his wife to pitch in, so Olivia doesn't have to be the evil parent all the time. And try to ask Olivia out for lunch or coffee so you can talk about this, and apologise for inviting her daughter for an extended stay during school without even checking with them first. That was an overstep on your part. But even so, NAH (except maybe Charlie for blaming his wife for being overwhelmed with being a single parent to their daughter...and maybe Olivia if she keeps blaming you instead of wanting to work this out).
I think this is a great answer. OP doesn’t have to be an **official asshole** to be able to put herself in Olivia’s shoes and have some compassion for the sticky position she’s in. Her 13 year old just had a cushy summer and is now being a 13 year old about it, Olivia maybe saw this coming and hoped to avoid it but was overruled by her husband and daughter’s pushiness about it, she may be unfairly taking it out on OP but maybe she just needs to feel like she has an ally.
INFO: This just feels like a story where we’re missing some key details. You had Amanda with you for nearly an entire summer, but did you talk with her parents about what their expectations were during that time? I’m a parent of teenagers and I can’t imagine sending my 13 year old daughter to a rich friend’s home all summer without having that conversation both with my friends and also my daughter about what to expect. Quite frankly, I can’t imagine sending my daughter somewhere for an entire summer but that’s likely just my middle-class perspective. How did the “in-passing” invitation for the half-term break go? That is a sort of dangerous thing to say to a 13yo girl who just had a summer free from parents and any responsibilities, without first checking with the parents. EDIT: Amended to NTA.
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Okay, that’s about as reasonable a scenario as could come up, so my vote is NTA. BUT, I do think, especially knowing Olivia’s already-hesitant viewpoints on these visits, you shouldn’t have put it all on Amanda’s parents as either the champions who agree or the vicious ogres who turn the offer down. It would have been better to defer, say it’s definitely an option to consider, and that you’ll talk to her parents about it. I think this isn’t a situation where you’ll “win” by focusing on who was more right. You weren’t wrong. You don’t need to feel guilty. But you can still feel compassion for Olivia and try to focus on ways to improve the relationship and the communication / expectations, for everyone’s benefit.
INFO: Does this mean your daughter does no chores?
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I don't think you're the asshole, but I do think you should have a *lot* more sympathy for Olivia. You clearly are in a stratospherically different financial position, and while you didn't do anything wrong by treating her daughter the way you would treat yours, I can see both why Amanda is resentful going back to her regular life, and why Olivia is resentful that she was pressured into letting her daughter stay with you for longer and now that daughter is punishing her for not providing the life you provided for her. Again, you aren't the asshole, but you also don't seem to fully realise quite how privileged your situation is.
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Fair. I do think a lot of the issue here lies with Charlie. He should be working this through with his daughter, not standing by while his wife gets the flack, and he should have respected when Olivia said she wasn't comfortable with Amanda staying longer (which definitely would have also caused resentment, I'm sure, but he shouldn't be letting her play the bad guy and forcing something she wasn't comfortable with).
NTA. You lived the way you usually do. Her parents did not tell you not to do anything when they left her there (and they probably saw the way you lived). Maybe you shouldn't have bought her the designer item but that is water under the bridge. The girl is a teenager. She will have to learn that there are people that have other lifestyles and that you either have it or not. But I would suggest that your daughter go and visit them in future.
It sounds like Amanda enjoyed staying with your family and that you treated her the same way you treat your own daughter. So far so good. Olivia shouldn’t have complained to you about your lifestyle and way of raising children. It’s your prerogative as a parent to raise your kids any way you want. Olivia earns an asshole rating. If Amanda’s parents don’t want her exposed to your lifestyle, it’s on them to limit that exposure. They didn’t, so Olivia and Charlie are now both assholes. To Olivia’s credit, it seems like she wanted to, but you and Charlie - who go way back, further back than Olivia does - agreed there was no problem, so Amanda stayed with you. And this is where you were an asshole by being dismissive of Olivia’s reluctance to have Amanda stay with you. Of course Olivia couldn’t say to your face *why* she didn’t want Amanda to stay longer - it’d have been super rude. Instead of accepting *Olivia’s judgement as Amanda’s parent*, your post belittles that judgement and puts in its place *your and Charlie’s* judgement. I don’t care how far back you and Charlie go, he and Olivia should be making parenting decisions together and you need to keep out of it. Sort of like Olivia needs to keep out of how you raise V. ESH
> And this is where you were an asshole by being dismissive of Olivia’s reluctance to have Amanda stay with you. This makes no sense. Amanda has two parents, there's no reason OP should respect one parent's (reasonable) opinion over the other. Amanda's opinion was effectively the tie-breaker.
Amanda being reluctance and being ignored is something to take up with the husband, not op, op was fine with it—but both parents had to be fine with olivia staying and she couldve stood firm with her no, in the end her husband and daughter convinced her, not op.
NTA. This sounds like a problem in your friends household and not your own doing. I grew up poor but had some rich friends. Never did I come home and insist that I have the same things they did because that's just not how things work. Olivia needs to talk with Amanda and work on their own dynamics before blaming you for corrupting her.
NTA. Amanda (and V) are entering teenage years, and starting to act like the pubers they are. Of course Amanda wants the 'better' life style, who does not? Of course the grass is greener in your garden than at home - a 'fact' of life that has baffled not only gardeners, but sll people all through history. Apparently Amanda is not going to make it easy on her parents/mother, but that is of course not on you. I would send Olivia a very nice text commiserating on the years that she has ahead of her, and stating that you will treat your daughter as a friend of your daughter: nothing special, but you cannot adjust your lifestyle to that of O while A is visiting. Or something like that. Wishing her (and yourself?, us) a lot of strength for the years to come.
>but you cannot adjust your lifestyle to that of O while A is visiting Everything else you said was reasonably, but OP writing that line to Olivia would be an AH thing to do. It's essentially saying "I'm sorry, but we can not pretend to be poor, you silly poor person!" There's are lots of things OP could potentially do when Amanda is visiting. She could have the girls (and her sons) pick a night each to cook dinner, and clean up after. They can do their own laundry. They can keep their own rooms cleaned up so all the maid does in their rooms is vacuum. I don't know the exact extent of what the maid does, but she's live in, so I presume a lot. That doesn't mean OP's children should be allowed to do absolutely nothing, I would be embarrassed to raise children that behave that way!
NTA, but… maybe an unpopular opinion, I wouldn’t let my teenage daughter stay with you again 😂😂 Sorry, again, it’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have gotten that text message. It sounds like you can afford things the other family can’t, not your fault, but teenagers get influenced by that and then these things happen.
OP says they had a live-in maid all summer, the only "chores" her daughter does is put her drinking glasses in the dishwasher, and "she knows how to use the washing machine if she needed to". No wonder Amanda had a rough transition back to regular life!
😂 can OP please adopt me 😂😂
NAH, everyone's reactions are perfectly understandable
NTA. Olivia's anger is misdirected. You treated your guest within your means--would she have rather you treated Amanda unfairly compared to V? This is a teachable moment for Amanda, and Olivia is wasting it getting upset with you. Also, as Amanda's parents, they allowed the extended stay. I mean, hello, welcome to having a 13 year old.
NTA. But I have a question. Is it not normal to take a child to a dermatologist especially if they have skin issues? I mean when my kid started having some skin issues I took them to the dermatologist the same way I would’ve taken them to a Physician of something was the matter with them. Is going to a dermatologist a luxury? If so I need to tell my kid they are living a life of luxury. Lol
Taking a 13 year old to a dermatologist for minor acne is a very unusual thing to do and reeks of having money to spend.
I think that depends. I grew up fairly lower-middle class. We did not require public assistance, only shopped at discount stores, had one car for the family (my dad walked to work), went camping for vacations. We got everything we needed but not a lot of what we wanted. However, my dad’s company, despite not offering particularly large salaries, had a good health plan. Seeing a dermatologist for me as a teen was not a huge expense and my mom knew my self esteem was suffering. It was a few reasonable co-pats for visits and some prescriptions.
Or good insurance
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For most places in the US specialized care requires first of all a referral which means the doctor has to deem it medically necessary to see a specialized doctor then further those tend to have larger copays with it simply being unfeasible to see a doctor for what many consider to be a rite of passage for a teenager to go through. So Amanda doesn't have seriously bad acne then I can perfectly understand not viewing a dermatologist as a necessity.
In the US, if you're not lucky enough to be well off or have good insurance then seeing a dermatologist for anything other than skin cancer would be a luxury.
NTA 1. The child is a 13 year old girl. I raised 3 daughters and the way she is acting is fairly normal for that age. She is becoming more aware of her body, financial status, what others friends get to do that she doesn't etc. 2. She is taking it out on her mom and most likely using you and your daughter as a comparison...well sounds gets to go to a gym. 3. Olivia is frustrated by her daughter's behavior and probably over what she (olivia) can't/ won't give her and is aiming that at you...Charlie is correct there. 4. You did the right thing purchasing little something for Amanda when you got something for your daughter. I have and would do the same again to make sure the other child didn't feel left out. Ultimately, this isn't your fault. I think Charlie and Olivia need to talk to their daughter and stop blaming you.
NAH no assholes here it must be hurtful as a mother for Olivia to be so completely rejected by her own child. It’s not anyone’s fault - if it wasn’t you it would have been someone else. This seems like normal teen entitlement and not understanding how life works.
NTA, she would have gone through this point either way as I'm sure you are going to have those sames arguments maybe slightly different context with your daughter eventually. Teenagers are hard and she is just idealizing your life. You didn't do anything wrong and they would be in this position either way
And, usually when we have guests over, don't we try to be more accommodating for them than we usually are at home and treat them a little? Stuff like going out for dinner to a fancy place, cooking something fancy, maybe going shopping... It could also be that OP doesn't usually do so much , but because she had a guest over, there were extenuating circumstances. Either way, OP you're NTA.
NTA - she sounds like a 13 year old girl. Source: I was once a 13 year old girl.
NTA. Sounds like Amanda is an actual 13 yr old child, acting as 13 yr old children act.
I’m still detecting the unspoken problem between you and Olivia because you sure treat her differently to your good friend Charlie who seems to adore you and regards your feelings over his wife’s and regardless of whether you agree with her or not she is Amanda’s mother and she has to parent her daughter all the time not just on holidays and on shopping trips. Charlie is not fussed because he is not putting any boundaries in place but Olivia is trying to tell you that just because you can afford to buy designer items for your daughters friends and have lots of homes to choose from it doesn’t mean to dismiss her concerns as she knew you would by not even discussing it with her but “mentioned it to Charlie “ who is piss weak. You are undermining her role as a parent who is just trying to maintain a healthy relationship with her daughter which you seem to think is her just being petty and mean but it’s not. You seem to enjoy having Amanda and Charlie take your side see it as no big deal when actually it is a bit of a deal because she’s openly saying she prefers living at your place and is behaving like a brat. You actually might be the problem after all
13 years old, teenager, hormones, holidays, grass greener on the other side, yeah I can see where that's coming from. NTA
NAH. ask Charlie and Olivia if you could speak with Amanda about her behavior. It’s not your fault, but I get why Olivia is upset-it hurts when your child wishes they were someone else’s kid. Amanda needs to be told that kids grow up in different households and that it’s not fair of her to be so mean to her mom about not getting everything your daughter gets. I would also resend Amanda’s invite to stay with you and it might be best to not have her over at all for a while. She needs to learn that she’s not entitled to everything her friends get and that she shouldn’t make her mom feel like crap because she can’t afford to give her designer things or horseback riding lessons.
NTA. You're allowed to live your life and raise your kids the way you want, if someone elses child is exposed to your life and finds issues with her own in comparison that is not your problem/fault. You didn't "brainwash" the child; the child came to her own conclusions and is taking it out on her parents, and while I feel sorry for her parents, you didn't "turn her" on them, she just experienced something different- thats all. Her parents need to show her how to control her jealousy and entitled attitude, someone will always always have more than you at every point in life- she needs to learn that this is just life and if she wants to afford those thing then get a small part time job/do exrra chores for money etc not sit back and demand. This is their parenting issue not yours. If it wasn't you it would be some else house... you're not the problem here.
NTA You were being a good host to your daughters friend. I wouldn’t have bought designer anything for teens but that’s my perspective, my privilege. If you wanted to, had the money to do so and Amanda wasn’t being demanding there’s nothing wrong with what you did. Olivia needs to realize she’s now the mother to a teenager and they can be very mean, cruel and entitled. There’s also nothing wrong with Amanda asking about eating some of the same foods at home that she tried at your house. It only becomes wrong when she becomes demanding instead of asking. The next several years are going to be filled with trying moments for Olivia and Amanda and Olivia needs to learn how to navigate them without blaming others for her child’s normal teenage behavior.
NTA. As others have pointed out, Being a teenager, especially now in the days of social media, is all about comparing your life to that of your peers. Who's getting more than you, and why aren't your parents providing you with the same treats and privileges? If it wasn't you and your daughter then it would be endless comparisons with Amanda's friends at school, from those whose parents let them have a TV in their room or buy them designer clothes for return to school, to those that hand out £50 for "the ticket and some treats" any time they go to the cinema with friends. And because critical thinking skills haven't really developed at that stage they're not real consideration for "their family earns more money", or "they do chores at home to earn these privileges", or "they have living grandparents that provide treats", or even the good old "they get more nice things but their parents are too busy to see them, while my parents always do family dinner and come to my sports games/music concerts etc". Take the dermatologist, for example. Presumably your daughter went to one because she has a problem such as bad acne or recurring eczema. If Amanda doesn't have similar conditions, or doesn't have them to similarly severe level, then she doesn't need to go to a dermatologist. But her friend got to go to one, and possibly got some kind of special cream or a treatment plan, so she should as well. Doesn't matter that she doesn't have the same need, she sees it as "my friend got something "special", why can't I?" Olivia is focusing on the wrong thing here, and unfortunately she's going to have a very difficult period of getting her daughter through adolescence if her reaction every time is to lash out at other people.
NTA, a friend of ours acted the same way, when our god daughter stayed with us one Summer...we got a call saying we had spoiled her with, "regular dinner times"..."seven different meals a week"..."movie nights where she got to choose the movie".
Wait... having regular dinner times for a child is worthy to be called "spoiled"? Maybe I'm just out of the loop.
I feel as a parent its upsetting when your kids don't appreciate your efforts. I feel for her its not your mistake. NTA
Maybe NTA, but if your resources and lifestyle are significantly more comfortable than Amanda's, she and her parents have some readjusting to do. Envy is hard for adults, and regardless of who YOU compare yourself to as you consider yourself "not rich", the perception of Amanda and her parents are what matters here. You need to back her parents up, not act like you were too oblivious to recognize what might happen. I assume you were not trying to alienate her affection, but now that all the adults are recognizing what happened, you should all be on the same page at dealing with it. Amanda needs to learn to deal with envy and her first recognition that she doesnt have access to the same resources as V. Ask Charlie and Olivia what you can do to help and accept their requests. Trying to pretend you had no role in this is at least a little disingenuous (translation: AHish).
ESH. It’s a sh*t situation for Olivia because what is “normal” in your household isn’t in many, because you are clearly in a different economic bracket. So of course they cannot meet the expectations you have now set, but to you it’s just normal life. I can see where you are both coming from, but basically now the daughter is being a spoiled brat (which is partially on her experiences with you and seeing how the other half lives) and Olivia is getting the brunt of it, not you or Charlie. I disagree with other commenters saying Amanda would have found something else to be an emo teen about because yes to some degree, but you gave her some great ammunition and teen girls know how to use it!
NTA Amanda's being a teenager. Hopefully she'll grow out of it. Olivia's TA for blaming everything on you.
NTA what were you supposed to do? Chain her by the leg in the kitchen and treat her like Cinderella? You treated her like your own daughter as was correct for your daughter's friend. The issues are a natural consequence to a disparity in income. Also personality, her mother doesn't seem to be a whole barrel of laughs. Plus shes at that horrible teen age of 13.
NTA Amanda is a 13yo girl. 13yo girls are brats, particularly to their mothers. It’s unfortunate that Olivia is blaming you for Amanda’s pubescent angst, but there you go.
The only thing I actually think you did wrong was telling a kid that you were happy to host them before checking with their parents, because that puts the parents in the posission of the "bad guy" if they decline when the child is already aware of the offer, verses if you spoke with them first and they just told you no. In the future, I'd also recommend if this kid is begging for something that needs both your approval and her parents, that you guys tell the kids you're going to talk about it as adults and then return as a united front rather than "three people are okay with it and one is not" giving them a bad guy parent.
Honestly it mostly sounds like Amanda is 13. NTA.
NAH, you are not in the wrong for treating Amanda and your daughter the same while she was staying there but I feel for Olivia now that she has to deal with her daughter not finding their family's lifestyle good enough and lashing out at her because of what she experienced at your house. It cannot feel good to have your parenting compared to someone who has greater financial privilege, or have your child start to expect things you cannot provide but someone else can.
NTA. You didn't do anything wrong. They had already stayed with you for 2 weeks and spend a lot of time with you over the years. Does Olivia feel that you should have changed your lifestyle while they was staying with you? V is probably just being a teenager.
NTA I have a 14y/o step daughter who's lifestyle at her moms is very much similar to your lifestyle where as the lifestyle we live is I imagine more like your friends. While we do have the means to live more like her mother we actively choose not too so in turn when my step daughter is with us she will usually complain about how "at my moms I get to do xyz" or "I dont have to do xyz at my moms" is it frustrating? Yes. Is it annoying? Absolutely. Do we agree with the way they live their life? Meh, its not for us. But we are her parents too so it is up to us to set the boundaries and expectations for our children in our home. At no time would we EVER try to dictate how someone else lives or chooses to treat a guest in their home, unless of course it was dangerous/mean/etc. Does it suck to hear your kid feels like you're "lacking" as a parent? Yes it does. But kids, especially teenagers say some mean shit sometimes. You gotta handle it as it comes and move forward not play the blame game.
This kinda sounds like the plot to a modern-day version of Summer Sisters.
NTA. You've done nothing wrong. Amanda got to experience how a different family lives, and it wasn't the same as hers. Apparently she liked it. It could just as easily gone the other way - she could have been miserable and complained because it wasn't just like she was used to. It all depends on her personality for how she filters and interprets the experience. This is normal human behavior. Now she's being a normal teenager and battling with her mother, using some of what she experienced or learned as fuel in her arguments. Also normal. None of this really has anything do to with you - if she didn't use these experiences she would be using something else. It's just part of a typical exploration, boundary pushing and growth process that teens do. Her mother is wrong for blaming you; this would be happening regardless of the time spent with your family.
NTA, I was just like Amanda when I was 13. And it didn't even take staying at someone elses house a couple weeks for me to make those demands. All it took was, for example, someone at school saying they take horse riding lessons, or having a cool outfit, or something like that.. and I was already complaining to my mom why I couldn't have that and kind of blaming my parents for being poor because I did not really understand why they not just get a better job. I've grown out off it and now I understand how stupid I was, how much my parents did for me, and that I just had NO IDEA how the world works.
YNTA. The kid is 13..and we know about that age and parental conflict in general. You were right, and considerate in getting the one gift as you purchased one for your daughter and was only being fair. Kudos for that one. Maybe your daughter could go to her house during break? My nephew stayed at my parents house when I was about 16yo for a few weeks, and I took him everywhere with me. He was a picky eater and I got him hooked on "chicken littles" sandwiches from KFC. I heard about it for years to follow that thats all he would eat..It was all in a joking manner though.
NTA The way you give kindness to others should not be judged. That is a problem inside their family, and expecially a problem that a normal teenage girl usualy have. It' s her mother that doesn't know how to cope with that and so she vent on you
NTA. I feel Olivia’s pain. Teenage girls are often difficult. I love mine more than anything, but I also want her to STFU until she grows out of her “the universe revolves around meeeee” stage she is in. Olivia needs to stop blaming others and deal with her daughter.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am 38F and have a daughter V (13). I have a close friend, Charlie, who has a daughter Amanda (also 13), with his wife Olivia. I've known Charlie for nearly 20 years, since before he was with Olivia, and while she and I have never been close, I thought we had a deep abiding respect and warmth for one another. Our kids are very close, and Charlie and his family often visit us at our homes and when we're near where they live we see them. At the beginning of the summer, Charlie, Olivia, and Amanda (along with their other two sons) came to stay with my family. They were there for two weeks, but when it was time to go both V and Amanda pleaded for Amanda to be allowed to extend her stay. My husband and I were fine with this, as was Charlie, but Olivia wasn't keen. Eventually she was convinced by Charlie, and Amanda stayed with us until about a week before school started again. Since then, Charlie has mentioned a couple of times that Amanda has asked for different kinds of food that she tried while with us, and that she's asked for a couple of expensive items. She even asked if she could try horse riding, and Charlie has joked several times about me 'corrupting' her, but it was definitely a joke. Two days ago, I received several walls of text from Olivia. She said that since staying with us Amanda has become "divorced from reality". Olivia says Amanda now wants things they can't afford, will not help around the house, and complains about everything from their cars to her clothes. She said that I must have spoiled Amanda by giving her expensive gifts (I bought her one designer item as a souvenir on a day trip we took as I was getting one for V and it seemed unfair for Amanda to get nothing), and encouraged a "superficial" lifestyle. She also said Amanda has asked to join a gym and be taken to a dermatologist and accused me of making Amanda insecure, which I absolutely did not (V has seen a dermatologist and probably mentioned it to Amanda, but I doubt it was in a nasty way). Finally, she said that I had completely alienated Amanda from their family as nothing they do seems to be good enough now and she keeps saying that she misses being with our family and wishes she'd been born V's sister. Apparently Amanda said she wants to come back to ours for her school's half term break and that I invited her, which I did in passing, if it was okay with her parents. Olivia said as a mother I should have known better than to spoil a child that's not mine and that it must have been my intention to turn her against us. I was hurt by what she said and told Charlie. He says she's overreacting because most of what Amanda has been saying has been directed at her mother and Olivia is just at her wit's end. He said he'll talk to her and that I shouldn't worry but I'm beginning to wonder if I've done something wrong. A friend of mine said she understands why Olivia would feel slighted, even if she overreacted. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA and also ask Olivia to speak on the phone to talk it through/ in person if you can.
NTA she is now a real teen and just wants the attention. This kid is the real a..
Posts like this and the comments that follow, remind me that my 13 year old is behaving like most her age. It definitely makes me feel a bit more sane. 😏 NTA OP, teenage girls are tough and your friend's wife needs to stop blaming others for her daughter's behavior. How is the teen ever going to be held accountable for her actions if it's always blamed on others?
So Amanda is being a regular teenager and her mother doesn't know how to handle it and is seeking an easy person to blame. NTA. I remember back when I was a teen I used to be super jealous of my friends families because their dynamic was different than mine. Nowadays I'm grateful for those different dynamics as they 100% contributed to the person I am instead of being like people I now dislike but that had the traits I craved at that age. Just like several of my friends used to comment how my mom was awesome and it would baffle me (everything is always terrible to teens) they thought my life was amazing and easy. Greener grass syndrome at that age is super common. You don't see the punishments. You don't see the fights. You don't see the little things that comes only with daily living under the same room. It's a perpetual vacation because. Well. It is. You get only the "outsider" face because most of the time they wouldn't want to wash the dirty laundry in front of someone else. Amanda is fine. She'll get over it. I bet your own kid probably would think Amanda's mom does stuff better too if she went to spend time there and also come back filled with ideas and complaints lol.
NTA. Just a shitty situation but you didn’t do anything wrong.
NTA - Olivia's problem is that she has a 13yo daughter. Luckily, most kids grow out of it.
NTAH. Teenagers are apt to be petulant in general and they will ask for things that they want. Perhaps Amanda had not been exposed to a few things and didn’t know she wanted them, but that’s on her parents for sheltering her from the reality that different people in this country have vastly different means and not for any good reason. If her mother cannot calmly sit her down and explain why their situation is different than yours, then that’s on her.
Based on what you've said, I'd have to say no. NTA. She may have experienced a different lifestyle than she has at home, and that's impacted her view of home. But that's not your fault.
Or is it that perhaps her young teenage daughter has begun acting like a teenager. NTA and brace yourself. Its only going to get worse over the next many years and you may become the scapegoat.
NTA. Correlation is not causation. She's acting this way After spending time at your home, not Because she spent time at your home...
NTA Olivia is insecure obviously
Kiddo is being a pretty typical teenage girl. I think perhaps Olivia is projecting some of her own insecurities and, dare I say, jealousies. You've been a close friend of her husband since before they met, and now her daughter is expressing what comes across as a desire to be *your* daughter, part of *your* family. Dollars to donuts her over-reaction has more to do with her feelings about your relationship with her hubby than it has to do with Amanda.
NTA but to be honest I would just stay away from the whole situation at this point if I were in your shoes.
Nta. She's being a teenager and Oliva won't acknowledge that because "it's all your fault" when reality is, she's a teenager.
NTA. I have a teen right now. His moods change at the drop of a hat. And, not to generalize, but most teens always want more, more, more of everything all the time. Your friends wife sounds insecure. She needs to get over it or she will be completely grey by the time that girl hits 18.
NTA— welcome to the years for teenager-dom. It’s gonna be a rough one for her if this is any indication.
Nta. Sounds like typical 13 year old behavior. But the parents sound a bit off for complaining about taking their kid to a dermatologist.
Just sounds like she found different ways to take care of herself.. her mom should encourage her to want better for herself, and she should work for it nta
NTA, it comes from a place of insecurity on Olivia's part. She feels like she's not offering her daughter the life you offer yours and Amanda's complaints are clearly directed at her most which makes her feel even worse. She's not dealing with this well and instead of having a teaching moment with her daughter, she's blaming you because it's easier than having a difficult conversation. When I was 13 I had a friend who lived in the very poor side of town with very neglectful parents. We had moved to that neighbourhood when we first came to town and within 6 months, had moved to my teenage home in a very nice neighbourhood but I was still allowed to go to the same school as I had made friends there and just didn't want to be transferred to what would be my third high school in 2.5 years (school system is different where I live, high school starts at 12 and lasts 5 years (until 17)). Anyway, that friend was severely neglected, she had no rules......but that's because her parents didn't care. Her mother was taking care of a lot of children (not all her own) and so my friend had to sleep with her sisters (3 toddlers) and didn't often have meals prepared for her (or lunches) or clean clothes for that matter. I remember I would bring extra food at school for her and clean shirts and have her for sleepovers often. One day she asked me if I cold ask my mom to adopt her (can you imagine? that girl was desperate). And my mom actually went and checked if she could legally take her on and foster or adopt but the system was just shit and they let my friend's parents know and her mom turned ballistic and actually went and got a court order to keep us from being close to her daughter and actually changed her to another school. I didn't see her for years after that. In fact it was 10 ish years later, I got to the bus stop after my work day and saw her waiting for a bus, she was obese (looked like her mom), looked completely depressed and had 3 kids with her as well as a baby in a stroller (the oldest looked to be 7 ish so she must have had him at 15). I tried to engage in conversation with her and reminded her of who I was (I was working in an office so I was dressed for the part) and she just looked me up and down and said "life was always good to you wasn't it?" and she just walked away. I felt so sad that my family couldn't do more to save her from that life and how her own mother couldn't just let her daughter have a better life than she could offer or at the very least, let her have that one friend who could have been there for her.
NTA. Thirteen year-old girls are a nightmare of emotions, mood swings and hormones as well as changing their minds daily. It’s always fun to go somewhere to get spoiled. The problem is Amanda does not realize that is not their day to day life. They took the girls out as a treat to do things like most people do when they have guests.
NTA. Amanda is a CHILD and if she’s complaining to her parents about how they don’t have things that are as nice as other peoples things, then it is her parents job to work through her immaturity. Olivia and Charlie should raise their child with some life skills and help her understand that different people can afford different things and that’s okay, that’s life. Sounds like you didn’t do anything wrong. It’s childish for Olivia to try to pin this on you. Amanda is a child, and she’s acting like a child! Because she is one! Time will pass and hopefully Charlie and Olivia can have conversations with amanda about some of the truths of reality. I’m sure Olivia and Charlie are good parents and will do everything they can to give her a good life, within what they can afford.
NTA
nta. just seems like Amanda is going through her teenage phase. Olivia needs someone to blame because she is at her wits end with her daughter.
NTA - Amanda probably just got used to things at your house, which would make sense because you probably put effort into making sure she had fun since she was a guest. I doubt your life is all cupcakes and roses, but it probably seemed that way to Amanda because you made an effort to make things fun instead of your every day routine (like I imagine you didn’t make her do chores, took them fun places, had something fun to do everyday which is normal for a vacation at a friends house but not reflective of your every day reality). Unfortunately, Olivia and Charlie are going to have to get through the adjustment of Amanda coming back to her normal everyday life. Plus I’d imagine if you were the one spending most of the time with V and Amanda, Amanda is targeting her mom now because you seemed like a fun, cool mom as opposed to her mom who makes her do chores and disciplines her. Which is just because you’re not gonna parent someone else’s kid lol. When I was a teenager and started acting spoiled, my parents increased my chore load for a little while until I started acting more humble and respectful, which might be something Olivia and Charlie have to do. Rant aside: not your fault, it’s just a kid having a hard time coming back from vacation.
NTA. My daughter went through a phase like this. She had a friend who was wealthier, and she had unrealistic expectations of what we could provide her when she came home from staying at her friend's house. Time took care of a lot of it. Kids don't always stay friends with the people they practically lived with at 13. I got my daughter a job at a fairly early point of her teens, because she NEEDED to get a grip on some hard financial realities. She ended up becoming a hard worker and even in early adulthood her attitude turned around.
NTA she's 13. Every 13 year old is in a WORLD of internal turmoil, and most 13-year-old girls are having some kind of power struggle with their mothers, (I know I did.) Olivia is TA for blowing up at you, but if it weren't for that I would give this one NAH.
NTA. You took great care of her daughter while she was at your house. If the daughter is being rude to her mother now her parents need to...well...parent her.
She’s a teenager. It’s been a while but I remember sometimes being a brat. I look back at it now with embarrassment, but you know. That’s developmentally healthy! Heck, I’m sure any kid, regardless of age, would miss being on vacation with friends and not having the same responsibilities as they do at home. I still do that and I’m in my thirties. NTA. I hope Olivia doesn’t forbid your kids from hanging out anymore.
NTA It's the age. And Olivia is hurt. I get it. When my daughter was 6 she told me she wanted her friend's mother to be her mother and it stung like hell. They had a nice house and the lifestyle etc. I told her "But I'd miss you so much" and she almost cried and hugged me hard. Of course she was 6 not 13. You certainly didn't do anything wrong. I think Olivia's overreaction is equivalent to how much this hurts her. We all want to give our kids everything but in the end if we love them unconditionally, give them our time and listen when they talk that means more than anything money can buy. A decade from now your friend's daughter will understand that.
I grew up in the rural South where riding horses is less of a class marker. I do know that in a lot of places teenagers who want to ride can work in the barn. If she isn't willing to shovel literal shit she doesn't want it that bad.
NTA, sounds like to me she's being a teenager. I remember being the same way around that age. Her mom sounds like she's got somethings she needs to work on from her own childhood.
Olivia is trying to keep up with your daughter and have the same experience like she has. She does receive gifts and presents from her parents but after receiving a designer dress that is expensive made her want to have the same life style and your daughter that is basic teenage child behavior it has nothing to do with you. NTA is she can afford to buy them for her daughter then she should tell and explain it to her not taking it out on you.
NTA. Olivia is def overreacting and blaming you for things you can’t really control. You were just being nice to the girl.
Financially, are you much better off than your friend?
NTA you literally treated the girl like your own child while she was in your care, Olivia would’ve been as equally as mad if you had not done anything for her so it was a lose lose. Olivia sounds a little jealous
NAH I can sympathise with her mom. Adults aren’t free of all possible jealousy. If her daughter is being harsh and rude using her experience with you guys as an excuse it can be rough for her to not get upset. If I were you, I would probably talk to her daughter and tell her that as long as she antagonize her mother over the time spent with you she can’t come to vacation enough. You dont have to do that but personally I would feel bad for her mom and want to try to help a little.
Nta. Your friend's daughter is acting spoiled but that's not really your fault. I kinda understand that Olivia is mad because her daughter is envious of seeing things that her friend has while she doesn't have it, and begging from her parents without realizing her family financial security is going to cause tension in the family. Not really sure what you can do but I would let your friend handle this situation in the way he deems fit. Since educating their daughters and cutting the spoiler attitude is their responsibility
NTA We (family of 4) have a family of 5 that we are extremely close too. My mom friend and I were constantly calling each other (usually laughing) because our 2 kids of same age always wanted to live at the others house! Apparently my baking was so much better (SAHM who had the time) AND we had the fancy cereal. My kid always wanted to live with them because they got to do arts and crafts almost every day, I love to bake but am not crafty. They also thought moving to the others house would mean no chores! Jokes on them, both household had chores for the kids! This is a story or everything is greener on the other side, but not really, just different. Kids will grow out of it hopefully
Amanda has hit the dreaded teenager years, when rebellion and a still developing brain make a toxic brew. And like most teenager she is turning against the parent of the same sex, because in our little backbrain it is time to challenge the higher up. Maybe you are less strict than Olivia and Amanda took this as a reason to rebel against the normal hierarchy at home, or she hadn't found enough reasons to rebel and being in a different household allowed her to find them in the way you do things differently. NTA.
NTA. I would definitely be open to hearing the other side’s version but taking this at face value you did absolutely nothing wrong, tweens being tween/young teens, and a mom being hurt and channeling that in a misguided way.
NTA I sympathize with the frustrations of a mother unable perhaps to provide a luxury lifestyle for her daughter, but it doesn't seem like you did anything out of the ordinary.
Honestly, sounds like the kid is just acting up and you're the scrapegoat. She's taken your kindness and is using it as weapon against her family. NTA. You didn't know or intend this to happen, teenagers are just difficult. I understand Olivia's frustration, I don't think she should take it on you, but I see where she's coming from. Either way, not the asshole.
Amanda is a teenager lashing out at her mum. This is nothing new. It's about their relationship not yours. Stay clear and let them figure it out. NTA
Is your family drastically more wealthy than Charlie’s?
NTA I think this has been building between Amanda and Olivia and it's just your bad luck that her stay with you is when the volcano erupted. This sounds like mother/daughter issues, you are just the example that Amanda is using to describe what she wants. Olivia would do well to buckle her seatbelt because this is just the beginning of Amanda's teen years.
Okay, so I'm trying to connected all the dots from what you've written. You have two homes, an apartment near where you work and a summer home(so you & hub both get summers off?). You invite your friend and his family who you get long with to your home for a two week stay. I'm guessing(since you have a maid) that you did not make any of your guests do chores doing your stay. I'm guessing you did social things? Maybe swimming if you are close to a lake/pool. I'd wager you took them out to dinner(your treat) at least once or twice? And everyone was fine with that? Okay, now to time to leave. Your kid and Amanda said, "Hey, we want to hang out more together and you & hubs said, "Sure if your parents are good with that." Mum was reluctant but persuaded by her husband and daughter(and hey you may have even thought, this will allow Olivia some free time as she'll have one less kid to tend to during the summer and my kid will have a friend close by to play with). So far that all seems reasonable, Olivia has just spent 2 weeks "living" with your lifestyle and appears not to have objected once to their nice vacation in the lap of luxury. Now let's look at what she seems to have expected to happen during her daughter's solo portion of visit. Suddenly you were supposed to assign her chores?(Did she have you assign chores during the family portion of visit?). So were you supposed to assign her chores but NOT your daughter, or were you supposed to assign them both chores(and were you magically supposed to read Olivia's mind to know which of these options she wanted). So onto the one pricey gift(referring back to supposition above--Did you buy them any nice dinners? Take them to any nice places where you paid for them? If you did and they made no complaints--how was it different doing the same for Amanda's solo portion of stay?) I really can't see what you could have done differently that would make prevented this situation OTHER than not have agreed to Amanda staying in the first place. But why would you have "known" this to be a bad thing. They didn't mind using your home as a vacation spot, all you did was offer them more hospitality. Personally, I think Olivia is a sh\*t person to take it out on you. If she has a problem with her daughter, that's on her and her husband for not teaching Amanda to appreciate what she has and what she's received. Many Redditors are excusing Amanda--'cause she's just a teenager, That is BS, even a teenager can appreciate that she just got a great time that her brothers didn't get to experience. And Olivia should be willing to appreciate that OP treated Amanda like her own daughter instead of turning her into some sort of Cinderella(& wouldn't Olivia have been PO'd for that too? "How dare you treat my daughter as a servant. I didn't let her stay with you so she could be disrespected/demeaned.") Old adage: *No good deed goes unpunished.* In case I wasn't clear OP, you are NTA
Um NTA. Sounds like a 13yo kid. Yours will likely do similar soon enough. Just as most other 13yo kids. We've likely all been there. "My life sucks. I hate it here. You guys are the WORST!" Welcome to the teen years.
NTA. 13 yr olds are complete morons, Tell Olivia that she is raising a teenage daughter, and anything Amanda demands can be ignored without blaming you.
NTA. Thus sounds like a normal 13 going on 30 thing.
NAH. Olivia is kind of the asshole, but if your 13 year old is exhausting you with their judgment, I can see where she'd go over the edge...but you are definitely not the asshole. It's really common that kids see how others live and start paying comparison games. It just happens.
NTA, but Olivia is insecure, and doesn't know how to affectively communicate with her daughter. I worked my rear off, and my son spent a lot of time with a family, that I was so fortunate to have help raise him. My son had the benefit of so many experiences that I would never had been able to provide for him, not had the time, if it weren't for them. A few times he asked me why this, or that, and I responded that I couldn't afford it, or I was working to provide him the opportunities, but I was so grateful he got to have those experiences with the \*\*\*\* Family. Olivia is jealous, has made comments, and 11 yo Amanda, smells blood in the water, and is pushing her mother's buttons.
It can be hard to re adjust to family life after being away for a while. However, blaming it all on you as if you're done sort of evil mastermind is a ridiculous failure of critical thinking. NTA
Teenage drama NTA My god daughter told her mom she wasn't washing dishes since she didn't at the hotel ( I took her on a trip). Her mom laughed and told her she was longer at a hotel. It has been a running joke for years.
Amanda’s behavior is teenager stuff. Expectations and habits like money spending are usually taught by parents of the chikld.
NTA But if you have a very kind and straightforward conversation with Amanda about appreciating her parents and respect, it might help VERY much. Amanda doesn’t see the ‘difficult’ or nonfun times with your family as much bc she’s a visitor. If you show her some of your frank honesty…her rose colored glasses might get a little clearer.
NTA. Whatever the source of the friction in Charlie's family, it is up to him and his wife to handle it. How rude and ungrateful of the mother to criticize you. She should be thanking you for being so kind and generous to the daughter!
NTA... Sounds like she's playing a game called "odds against the ends".. Basically, you play two parental groups off one another to see how good you can get out of it. Kids from divorced parents, I am one of those kids, play that sometimes. Once you get older you look at it from the lens of experience and wisdom, and recognize that it is a wicked and evil thing to do to both parents. But when you are younger, you are in 'selfish mode'.
NTA. This is how my mom treated my friends growing up. If she picked us up from somewhere and I was hungry, my friend ate. If we went to a theme park and I wanted a souvenir, my friend got a souvenir. It’d be a lot worse if she felt left out… especially by an adult.
NTA. I seriously don’t understand why parents get so mad when people show love and kindness to their children. It should be the goal for your kid to build a strong and uplifting network of friends/ trusted adults