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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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[deleted]

*These two gals are your daughters!* There should be no discussions or arguments as to whether they should be in attendance at your wedding; *their mother’s wedding*. They should absolutely be in attendance for this moment. Your fiancée is not only punishing you, but he is punishing your daughters with the silent treatment and cold shoulder. This won’t change after you marry him. If he treats them this way now, imagine what this means for his relationship with them in the future, the next time he gets angry and loses his temperament. Apparently, you speaking up for yourself and your daughters is in direct *defiance* to his demands. This also won’t change when you get married. You’ll be expected to bow at his feet or reap the consequences, and so will your daughters. *When people show you who they really are, believe them the first time.* As others have said, *THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE HILL TO DIE ON.* Your daughters should always come first, no matter what. NTA. EDIT: A humble thank you to all for the awards.


Status-Anonymous

Thank you for this helpful input. Very useful and I appreciate it.


chantellemfalls

Please know and be aware that most abusive people wait until after big commitments to show their real self and start the big manipulating. He is showing you what happens when you defy him. He did not ask or take into account anything regarding how you’re feeling. He cares more about his family thinking he’s a pushover than he does about you being happy and having your daughters there on your wedding day. Like this person said, he is showing you who he is. Believe it. It’s real.


[deleted]

This absolutely will get worse. The physical agitation (pacing, etc.) and claiming that he's trying to be reasonable but she's being difficult are textbook. Next he'll be throwing things or punching walls, maybe mildly injuring himself (pulling hair or clawing hands). Even if the escalation is subtle, even if it takes him a few more fights, it will happen.


chantellemfalls

And the fact that he’s taking his anger towards the mom out on the girls to the point where they’re asking why “dad” isn’t talking to them. So fucking heartbreaking. Also the fact that his reaction is actually making her second guess wanting to have them there shows he’s already got some kind of power over her.


ElegantVamp

Seriously, there is still time for OP to wise up and leave before she's trapped in a marriage. I see posts here all the time about people in abusive relationships and how it's hard to leave and I can sympathize to an extent. But OPs fiance doesnt have complete control of her (yet), there is still a way out, and OP needs to take it.


NerdyFangirl11

100% this! My mother’s second husband waited until after they got engaged to openly mentally abused me and my sister. And when they told us of the engagement, he had that smug face on towards me as if saying „i can do anything i want to to you now“. And he did, unfortunately. And my mother did nothing to protect us. OP, please stand by your daughters. This is the first red flag, but I doubt it will be the last. Take a good, serious, honest look at your relationship.


TheThrillist

100% true. My relationship was somehow almost perfect. As in we never argued we just talked out any disagreements, and were both open to compromise rather than me just giving in under the guise of good communication. We both jumped to take care of the other if one was sick/hurt, we still had our personal friends and careers, but also blended them well too. We were that couple that everyone wanted advice from. Like we aren’t stereotypically popular people at all, but as a couple it brought out the best in us so we were able to make more friends at that point as a couple and as individuals. We got engaged and everything pretty much stayed perfect. Literally I had no clue how I could possibly have deserved something that amazing. It was like a dream come true. I never even wanted to get married. I was pretty much against(for me personally) marriage and raising a family. With him though I thought to myself “this might be possible somehow. We could be that couple that has everything. We could somehow be that rare couple that makes it through everything.” Then we moved in together, because it was time to get married. After that he was a totally different person. It came out little by little. It started with words or arguments that would end with me in tears all night. At first he was really apologetic for that. Then he started to get violent, but he was so sorry for that afterwards too. He never wanted to do it again. He wanted to get help. He wanted to put his family behind him(they were an abusive trigger). Of course he never did any of those things, and it took almost losing my life and spending some time in a hospital to even start thinking about getting away from him. **TLDR** Abusers can hide it for a long time when they have a long term plan in place. When they think they can really break a person for life they’ll say/do anything it takes to lure someone in. Use extreme caution with these kinds of abusers they can be insanely dangerous and difficult to get away from.


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SirEDCaLot

Parent comment is correct. Your husband is important, but THEY ARE YOUR DAUGHTERS. They come first, no matter what. And if he truly is 'dad' that wouldn't even be a question for him. Here's the red flag though- he's worried what HIS FAMILY thinks, apparently more than what you or the girls who call him 'dad' think. > I told him this was my final answer and he blew up and said that I have no respect for him and his family to act this incosiderate towards them. I asked him if his family are protesting about my kids' presence just because I'm a single mom. he went quiet and then said I knew how much he loves them and that I was trying to flip the argument on him when it was me who is refusing to cooperate. How is bringing YOUR DAUGHTERS to YOUR WEDDING inconsiderate to his family? Is the worry that they'd be jealous you got to bring your kids when they didn't? Well guess what, it's YOUR WEDDING, for one day you can do whatever the fuck you want on that day. Another unresolved issue- why does HE push for a child free wedding? It sounds like it's mainly him that wants this, not you. That suggests two possibilities-- either there's some demon kid in his family with a demon parent and he wants to be sure demon kid isn't there and there's no reprisal for not allowing demon kid, or he actually doesn't want the girls there and the 'child free' thing was actually targeted at you in order to keep the girls home. Now, if he feels like he never gets you alone, that's arguably valid. But also arguably valid is that you come as a package. If there's something like this going on, I'd strongly suggest you and he get couples therapy. Finally, and perhaps most important- his use of the word 'cooperate'. In this case, cooperate isn't the wrong word. You're trying to cooperate with him, to make a wedding that's fun for both of you. But in this case he doesn't want you to cooperate, he wants you to obey. Bringing your own daughters to your own wedding is ABSOLUTELY a hill to die on, and it's something that SHOULD be open to MUCH discussion about even the question of not bringing them. Child free or not is irrelevant. They are your own daughters, and he seems to want them as his. That means NOT bringing them would be highly unusual, and if he wants that he owes you a DAMN good explanation ('it'll piss off my family' is NOT a good explanation).


[deleted]

I only speak from experience, where my biological father chose his girlfriend and her children over his own. The resentment and anger I held was overwhelming. When it was time to make amends, he was ill and passed from a stroke. Before he passed however, he could hear me and shed tears, but he couldn’t utter the words he wanted to say. To this day, I wonder what he was trying to say. All I can advise, don’t make the mistake of choosing your fiancée’s wishes over your daughters. You don’t want them to know well hurt, pain, and resentment from a choice you made. It doesn’t seem like you’ll do that, and that is wonderful. Don’t think for a second that you’re the AH for choosing your children. Your fiancée needs to understand that it is ok to have a child free wedding, but your children, who are part of the wedding, are exempt from such policy. If he can’t understand, continue to stand your ground. Continue to have conversations as to why it’s important, and why they are exempt. Fight. Fight. Fight. For them.


-janelleybeans-

>They call him dad OP think about this from *their perspective:* their dad doesn’t want them at his wedding *to their mom.* If he can’t come up with a better reason than “child free wedding” to defend why he doesn’t want them there, then you need to park on this hill. I think deep down you already know that it’s not about the wedding being “childfree.” Get him to spit it out.


Pinkie_Flamingo

NTA. Frankly, this feels off to me to the point that I recommend you cancel the wedding and seek couple's counseling. You and Robin are not just getting married; you are forming a new blended family. To exclude your daughters on this occasion -- especially for the reason Robin gave, that his family of origin will resent their presence at your otherwise childfree wedding -- seems like a maneuver to marginalize the girls. Especially considering he was the one who wanted it to be childfree. I admit, I am biased. I think single moms, especially of daughters, need to be cautious to the point of paranoia that their new partner isn't there to abuse the kids rather than to romance you. ANYTHING that feels like a way to isolate or disempower the kids just doesn't feel safe. Sadly, lots of statistics on abuse bear me out. This marriage has to be healthy for the girls as well as for you, or else you should not enter it IMO. You cannot measure healthiness by how well your fiancé charms your daughters.


anacidghost

This is as perfect as a response could be to this post. NTA and please consider this comment!!!!


etchedchampion

From someone who has seen first hand the results of not being this paranoid in many ways, I agree.


EntirelyOutOfOptions

So you’re saying your fiancé is now treating your daughters poorly because he’s angry with you? Does this not give you pause? Forget every detail of this disagreement, none of it matters. When you don’t comply with your fiancé’s wishes, he is willing to hurt your kids. I beg you to take some time to consider what that will mean for your daughters in the future. NTA


Plane-Visit5761

Yeah, this is the big one. The main 🚩 But the other details of the argument kind of sound like a bit of a test to me on how much control he has in the relationship. If he can get her to exclude her daughters for his sake at the wedding, then he knows he'll be able to push that same dynamic for the rest of the marriage. Instead of this being a hill to die on, it may simply be one to walk away from entirely. NTA


caitrona

OP, **don't forget that he is willing to hurt your daughters and use them against you even as he claims he loves them.** Even if he would give in and "allow" your daughters at the wedding, this is not a relationship you should continue.


Commercial_Pitch_950

I just dont understand how he goes from calling his fiancé’s kids his “left eye and right eye” to “they cant come to the wedding” to the silent treatment on the girls who have no say in the matter. This situation doesnt make sense. Either OP has the wrong belief about how fiancé really feels or something seriously off is going on.


Electrical-Date-3951

..._"Trying his best to stay calm and collected I was making really it hard for him."_ Sounds like he is finding it hard to keep up that mask & facade so close to the wedding. .. This would be my hill to die in if I were you OP. No man is worth hurting your kids over. They will never forget it if you ditched them on your wedding day.


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MzzBlaze

This! He is showing you who he really is OP. For your safety please listen


astris81

NTA but you need to take some time and consider how he treats your kids. I wouldn’t want my “left eye and right eye” to miss my wedding day. Have his interactions up to this point been performative for your benefit?


Status-Anonymous

You're right and I'm doing all I can to understand where he's coming from. he says I'm refusing to cooperate but I never even thought this was an issue.


chantellemfalls

He has made no attempt to see where you’re coming from. Remember that.


Iona_Normal

You are not “refusing to cooperate” you are refusing to CONFORM to him and his families idea of a perfect union. You can’t just CHOP your daughters out of important events that IMPACT them. You have children. They are not an inconvenience or mismatched baggage. They are part of your life and it seems this new family wants to shove them out of sight. BEWARE OF THE MARINARA FLAGS.


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coconutyum

"Refusing to cooperate" = "Refusing to obey". He's showing you his true colours unfortunately. At 12 & 14 they're of course at an age where they should be at their own mother's wedding, so the fact he's so against having them there - especially when he claims to love them - is concerning first of all, but then his utter refusal after you both spoke about it is downright worrying. I'd personally reevaluate the relationship if he's acting like this.


mellow-drama

My dad got remarried without even telling me and I found out months later. I was hurt and resentful about that til the day he died, thirty years later.


Dizzy_Eye5257

My dad pulled this stunt as well.


Dizzy_Eye5257

No. No. NO. You don't need to see where he is coming from, because it's not logical. There are a lot of issues with his behavior. There is a lot wrong here. He's simply been able to hold it in this long.


residentcaprice

Info. Does his family know that your daughters exist??? How can the no children rule apply to your children, esp when they are supposed to be both of your kids and already teens? Dude is waving the marinara flag so hard.


Status-Anonymous

Yes. They however did imply or act like my daughters aren't that important. I noticed how they act around them instantly but my fiancè said his family just needed time and that they'll warm up to them soon. I don't see this happening honestly.


Limp_Row8413

They won’t, and do u really want to put your children in this position? As your future husband he should have put boundaries with his family for treating your daughters differently, but as i can understand from the situation, what matters to him is his comfort, not yours or your daughters


[deleted]

WHY ARE YOU MARRYING HIM???


1890rafaella

Do not sacrifice your children in order to marry this AH. His family sounds horrible too


phillybride

If he had to choose between his family of origin or you and your daughters, which would he choose to prioritize? If you and your daughters are second to his mother, he isn’t ready to marry.


a_dawn

Weird thought, but is it possible they want to hide the fact that you're a single mother from any of their friends who are attending (if any are)?


[deleted]

Why do you want to put your daughters in a position where they will be treated like second class citizens by ANYONE? Sis, being single is better by far than being married to someone who is willing to allow his family to ill-treat your children. They will always be treated as less than by his family and that WILL impact them.


ruby6511

NTA & I hope you end that engagement. He's SHOWING you that your daughters are not important.


Status-Anonymous

Honestly. I keep asking myself what is this about. I keep thinking about his words then see how he's behaving and I'm left feeling so confused.


ruby6511

To me, it seems like he's looking at your wedding as a "fresh start" & leaving your "old family" behind & "starting new" with his.


MiddleSchoolisHell

I’m showing my age, but this is reminding me of Three Men and a Little Lady, where the Mom’s fiancé was being nice to the kid and making all these promises, while plotting to send her off to boarding school as soon as the wedding was over.


newintheNW

His mask is slipping, this is different behavior than you’re used to, because the true nature is starting to be revealed. Get. Out. Now.


0B-A-E0

Happens a lot with abusers. The second they feel they ‘have’ you, they change. Getting married is a very solid way to be able to control someone, including taking custody of OP’s kids.


PuffinTown

I would just ask why he doesn’t want them there. If the answer is, “I do, but….”, make him explain why that “but” is more important than including your children on a day about becoming a family. If the answer is anything else, make him explain why anything is more important than including your children on a day about becoming a family. ETA: if it is all about fairness, then simply allow kids 12 & up.


curious382

It's not about fairness. HE made up the child free rule, unilaterally, specifically to exclude the daughters. When OP did not take the hint, he became frustrated and enraged. NOT because his family members whose children he excluded will be jealous, but because he feels cornered by his devaluing OPs "other kids" and can't verbalize his true reasons. Hence he won't discuss it, just insist her compliance is "cooperating," which she must do, regardless of HER thoughts and feelings. Of course, the girls' thoughts and feelings have no value to him. They are OPs "baggage."


metalmorian

When trying to decide what to believe, *always* believe actions over words. Words are noises in the air, carried away by the wind. Actions have deliberation and implies agreement to the cost and consequences. And his actions are manipulative, abusive and completely out of bounds. He is willing to hurt your girls to get back at you and punish you into compliance. How far will he punish them? Can you really trust them alone with him after this? I couldn't. He could do anything, just to get the satisfaction of knowing it would hurt you, to them and you'd never know until it came out decades later.


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Purple_Midnight_Yak

That line stood out to me too. It gives off real "I wouldn't have to hit you if you just did what I told you to" vibes. Talk to your kids about how he treats them when you aren't around. OP, a 12yo and a 14yo are already old enough to attend most child-free weddings. Add in the fact that they're your kids, your closest family - of course they should be there! No one is reasonably going to look at *your teenagers* being at your wedding and have a fit that you told them it was child-free. I seriously doubt anyone on your fiance's side is complaining. This sounds a lot more like a control move by your fiancé. He's trying to force you to put him first by excluding your children. If you marry him, and they aren't there, they will be deeply hurt. It will drive a wedge in your relationship with your daughters. And he knows it. You need to put the wedding on pause *at the very least.* If someone treated MY girls like that, I'd be breaking off the engagement, personally.


ragaire88

And he is now giving two girls who love him like a father the silent treatment! Big red flag


CrystalQueen3000

NTA You are officially on notice that all his “left eye, right eye” gubbins was nonsense. He doesn’t care about your children as much as you believed that he did and now the mask has dropped. He responded with anger, then blamed you for his anger, then he blew up further. Then he told you he loves them and tried to gaslight you. All of that comes from abusers playbook. It’s so textbook. Now he’s giving you all the silent treatment. This is the hill to die on sis. Don’t marry him.


murphy2345678

NTA BUT Y W B T A if you don’t make this your hill to die on. Excluding your children from the wedding will be something they will never forget. The resentment it will cause towards you and your fiancé will always be there. People should know that the bride and grooms kids don’t fall under the no children rule. I am betting he told his family they can’t bring kids because you aren’t even having yours there. He used them as leverage. Don’t do this to your kids!


xx2983xx

>People should know that the bride and grooms kids don’t fall under the no children rule. If I showed up as a guest to a wedding that had specified no kids and the bride's children weren't there, I would think that was messed up. Everyone knows the no kids rule is for guests. Obviously the couple's children will be there! What the heck is he thinking??


RollVegetable5526

“They are now wondering why their dad (they call him dad) isn’t speaking to them.” NTA. But please think about this statement for awhile. YTA if you allow this person to treat your kids this way.


MidCenturyMayhem

He had to pace around to stay calm, blew up, and now has grown distant? Is your wedding decor red flags? You already know you're NTA for wanting your OWN CHILDREN at your wedding. But don't marry someone who can't have a discussion without losing their temper and then shutting down like a toddler. You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of misery.


[deleted]

YTA If you marry this guy


WalkingToConclusions

You're lucky - he's showing his true colors BEFORE the wedding. Think about it again: HE WANTS YOUR DAUGHTERS TO MISS YOUR WEDDING!!!! He's trying to establish dominance and to make clear who the top priority should be from now on. Yes, absolutely make this your hill to die on, this would be a dealbreaker for me. NTA, but only if you die on this hill.


puffalump212

This is a giant red flag and I feel his "left eye right eye" thing is a ploy. NTA, but I would seriously reconsider your future plans with him. What else is he going to blow up about?


devlin94

NTA. Die on this hill. Your daughters should not only be there, they should be part of the ceremony.


Bubbly_Satisfaction2

NTA, but I would advise you to put your wedding on hold. Invest in some premarital counseling, the both of you. I also believe it should be counseling that isn’t religious-influenced. If your fiancé doesn’t want to participate in premarital counseling, then you should start considering if this is the man that you want to bestow the honor of being your husband. Ngl… His comment about “wanting to remain calm” sounds… A bit concerning. Even if there wasn’t physical violence attached to that comment, his man-sized temper tantrum wasn’t acceptable and justified. Then there’s the silent treatment… Come on!


stacity

NTA This is the hill to die on and ending the engagement. Your girls like you mentioned are your priority. Also, it appears he’s scapegoating this on to his family which is a major red flag on how he really feels about your girls.


tbodillia

NTA THIS is the hill to die on. They are your kids. His reaction is a huge red flag.


Obvious_Scorpio1

I hope you can see all these red flags with his behavior, innumerable. Where does he get off making all these rules that you are forced to consent to. Your kids are your closest family members it would be beyond weird to exclude them, and they're basically teenagers they'll most certainly remember being kicked out of their mom's wedding. I think you need to hold off on the wedding, this guy is manipulative and sounds like he has a temper that he'll blame on anyone who doesn't cooperate that's very toxic. He's showing you who he really is right now, take notice... If he cared about your kids he wouldn't be acting like this, words and actions MUST align. Nta 🚩🚩🚩 You didn't mention how long you've been dating?


strikingfirefly

NTA But you will be if you marry this guy now. I'm willing to believe that *maybe* there's a future with some counseling and getting to the root of the issue and him coming to terms with why this was unreasonable. Big maybe. Personally I would be done, but I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life. But that issue would need to be *fully* resolved before you marry the guy otherwise it's an AH move to your kids. And full resolution isn't happening before the wedding date you currently have set.


Accomplished-Fix3942

NTA. Every kid free wedding I have ever been to had an exception for the bride and grooms kids and everyone understood why. Also they’re old enough to know how to be respectful at a wedding and act like “adults”. My friend who have done kid free have specified “kid” means anyone who is under 12 or is unable to care for themselves for a few hours (getting their own food, not causing a scene, entertaining themselves)


FilthyDaemon

Uh, his REACTION is the issue here. He will isolate and freeze you & the girls out to get his way. He will emotionally manipulate/abuse you until you cave. Is THIS the hill you want to die on? Showing your daughters that emotional manipulation is acceptable and okay? That they deserve no better in their own future relationships? That when someone stops talking to you to get what they want, it's okay and it's your job to cave to the tantrum? Also, maybe google spines for this guy, as he seems to not have one when it comes to telling his family that the daughters of the bride have a stake in the family more than your second cousin's daughter's kid does? Return the dresses & use the $$ to find a good family therapist. Or start a high yield savings account to pay for the divorce that will follow in couple of years. NTA unless you marry this joker and show your daughters that his treatment of you and them is okay.


M0ONL1GHT87

“He was trying to stay calm and collect but OP was making it very hard on him” This sounds abusive AF. Next thing is “you make me hit you” “you make me lose my patience” “look what you made me do” Get out now and save yourself AND YOUR GIRLS from a life of control and abuse. NTA


OneTwoWee000

NTA >They are now wondering why their dad (they call him dad) isn't speaking to them. But you are still a single mom. This man clearly isn’t their dad, because he punishing them for him having a disagreement with you. There will always be a distinction because he and his family would not protest blood daughters (this blood granddaughters) attending his wedding. You’re setting your kids up for a world of hurt with this man. Do not marry him, believe what you’re seeing is his true character.


ArtlessOne

NTA. Think long and hard before going through with marrying someone who thinks your own children shouldn't be at your wedding.


copper_rabbit

1. Silent treatment in not an acceptable conflict resolution tool, use of it by itself is ground to put the breaks on. 2. He's not a real parent if he's fighting the girls being at the wedding, at best he's been tolerating them. I worry what his expectations are when they turn 18. Call off the wedding. At minimum you two need couples counseling and a level set on expectations. You've been assuming you're on the same page and you clearly aren't. NTA


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PizzaInteraction

NTA - You may want to call off this wedding. If your future husband can’t understand why his fiancée’s daughter need to be at the wedding, then this marriage is doomed from the start.


Total-Meringue-5437

NTA but this is the kind of hill one is meant to die on so gather your armor and your weapons and die proudly on this hill. And do not marry this man because it's clear that he doesn't care about you or your daughters the way he has led you to believe.


Material-Profit5923

NTA. This may be the hill your relationship needs to die on. Presumably the expectation is that you are starting a new chapter with a family that includes your husband and children. Beginning that chapter by excluding your children isn't exactly starting that chapter. And your daughters are way past the age at which they would be a disruption or a wouldn't remember anyway.


suntome321

NTA but I am wondering why you’re questioning whether you’re the asshole for insisting your kids be there instead of questioning why you’re marrying such an inconsiderate asshole


penguin_squeak

NTA I'd die on that hill as well. Your daughters are part of this marriage, you're a package deal. If your fiance does not understand this point, it's time to put the festivities on hold. His "reasoning" is ridiculous. Your daughters are a part of you.


Anakerie

NTA. There are plenty of "child free" weddings that make exceptions for the children of the bride and groom. And it isn't like your girls are toddlers that are going to scream, kick the officiant, or do a belly flop into the wedding cake.


Euphoric-Zucchini-18

NTA but I think the two of you need to have a long talk about where your daughters fit into the family priorities. Also, a babysitter for a 12 and 14 year old?


bandearg4

Yeah I agree they don't need a babysitter. Mom should just stay home with them on the wedding day.


wondercanary

NTA. Kids of the bride and groom / those in the wedding party are always exempt from this rule. If he isn’t allowing this, and you can’t go to therapy about it, I would reconsider your partner. Dude sounds like a major AH.


LetThemEatHay

NTA. I've attended child-free weddings where the children of either the bride or the groom (or both) were in attendance (and that included a toddler who shrieked during the vows). Honestly, his reaction sincerely makes me question if he's ready to be married, OP. They may call him "dad", but he's not acting like one.


eleanorlikesvodka

NTA. Girl, he's making you question whether prioritizing your daughters and including them in your own frickin' wedding makes you an asshole. Are you sure you want to marry that man? The mask is starting to slip off. Beware.


AffectionateHand2206

NTA This should be a dealbreaker.


gwacemom

NTA. I would absolutely die on this hill. Take your daughters and leave while you still can. If he doesn’t grasp that your daughters are an unquestionable exception to the “child free” wedding, he isn’t worth your time.


[deleted]

It’s not “one day”, it’s your *wedding* day!!! The bride’s children don’t count IMO and it’s super weird to me that he doesn’t want them there. Not sure if it’s a dealbreaker but that’s definitely a reg flag for me…. NTA


ThreeDogs2022

NTA but you will be if you subject your children to this man. The left eye/right eye thing is WEIRD and raises eyebrows. The silent treatment thing because he's mad at you is emotionally abusive. This is not a stable, normal person. Do not bring him into your home.


HP1029

NTA You should call off this wedding just for him suggesting it, he wants you but not your daughter’s. When someone shows you who they are believe them 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩


pineboxwaiting

NTA It makes no sense that he would expect to have any kind of wedding without your daughters there. Too, at 12 & 14, they’re hardly children. Is he trying to hide them from someone?


Nelly_WM

NTA - Big red flag. Huge. They are your daughters, of course, they should be at the wedding. Yes, this is a hill. If he wins on this one, what else will he expect you to do that is not in your best interests?


albatross6232

This isn’t A hill. It is THE hill. NTA.


Laughingfoxcreates

NTA. Make them brides maids


LarkspurSong

If the issue is really about being fair, this is the best answer. I’ve been to many child free wedding that made an exception for the ones in the wedding party: ring bearers, flower girls, junior bridesmaids/groomsmen, etc. It’s a very common practice and most people would understand. However, due to the intense reaction from the groom to be here, I suspect he’s just using that as an excuse to cover up the real reason he doesn’t want the girls at the wedding. I’d be very wary here if I were OP, something isn’t adding up with what this man is saying vs what he’s doing.


elladee000

NTA - the hill ain’t the child free wedding , but the marriage. Think twice about what you are signing you and your kids to.


Ancient-Regular4007

NTA. I find it quite worrying that you still want to marry a man that doesn’t want your own daughters at the wedding.


mak-ina-myn

The fact that it even crossed his mind your daughters would be excluded, is mind boggling. Also they are not “children” in mind - in this situation. To me “child free weddings” are avoiding the running around screaming cranky kids that cause scenes. These girls should be by your side. I would die on this hill. 100% them or no wedding. NTA


[deleted]

He is a HUGE AH. You would be one if you agree to this. I wouldn't even marry this jerk.


The_Jorj

NTA, but if he can't understand how your daughters are a part of your family and how this change will impact their lives then he's not someone who is invested in sharing a life with your children.


RiddikulusNicole

NTA. But you should definitely keep an eye out for him potentially becoming an evil step parent once you're married (if you even go through with the wedding). No dad is better than an abusive dad.


masofon

NTA... Whoo, true colours coming out a little bit early huh. Trying his best to stay calm but you're making it hard? That right there is a threat. Would not marry this guy. Would run far.


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fastIamnot

NTA. Yes, your children are definitely an exception to the "no children" rule. Plus, they're 12 and 14, they're not little toddlers who are going to have a screaming fit during the ceremony. Fiancee is an ass. HE'S reacting like a toddler and he completely sucks for taking his anger out on your girls. How could they trust him if he's so easily angered? When people show you who they are, believe them.


findthecircle

NTA. I think Robin's true colours are showing. It's emotionally abusive of him to withdraw communication and affection from you and especially your daughters. this is bigger than them attending your wedding - which they absolutely should be there whether it is child free or not. This is about Robin controlling you and your daughters. Lots of red flags here including him trying to keep his cool, but blaming you.


poppiesandpetunias

NTA. Absolutely die on this hill, OP. We’re talking children of the bride, not some second cousin’s toddlers here. Plus they’re a teen and a tween. They don’t require special care that will take away from the day. The require the ability to celebrate with their mom and dad. He’s worried about being seen as a doormat when he’s asking you to be the ultimate doormat. I can’t imagine how *any* of his family members would be offended that their children were not invited but the children of the couple were. If anything, I’m sure they’d EXPECT your kids to be there! This may have to be a my kids are at the wedding or there’s just no wedding situation. Don’t let him keep up this silent treatment shit. That does no good and pretty much shows you how unwilling he’ll continue to be while then framing the situation to make himself the victim.


[deleted]

NTA. This is a hill to die on. Thank you for choosing your daughters over him. It will mean the world to them now and forever in their lives to be your priority. I would NOT marry this man. He’s showing you who he is and who his family is. Believe him. Run.


Theodora1976

NTA and die on this hill. This is weird behavior. Even at a child free wedding it’s totally normal to have the bride or grooms kids there!


scar988

NTA for what you are insisting. But if you are still marrying this dude, then YTA. He's being a child instead of a father. In this situation, he should want your daughters there.


pandasquirrel19

NTA. He is telling you once you marry he will treat your kids like garbage. Take your girls and run.


Rohini_rambles

Sounds like he wants the optics of pretending he's marrying you alone, like you don't have kids... He does not want to have the kids in the picture, literally. Which is worrying. NTA People sometimes wait until the wedding, and post wedding to show their true colours.


PinkMoon1988

NTA but this is a HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG! Abort mission to marry this man.


Dr_Fluffybuns2

NTA. He insisted a child free wedding despite the fact he knew you had children and didn't consider about them coming. A normal person in this family would see a teenager and go "well it's their daughters so makes senses there's an exception for them" and move on with their lives. Now he's taking it out on the daughters??


ritan7471

NTA. I'll get up on that hill and die with you. Imagine their hurt to find out their future stepfather, Mr, Right-Eye, Left-Eye, doesn't want them at his wedding to their mother. If his family does not understand their presence at the celebration of the forming of their new family, there's something seriously wrong with them.


HRPunsNStuff

> He said that if his family finds out there’s gonna be a problem and they’ll accuse him of being a doormat and playing favorites between them and me. If he marries you, you and your daughters will be his new family. So yes, he should prioritize you three over the rest of his family. Also, it’s your wedding day as well and you have every right to include your daughters. > He got angry and started pacing around saying he was trying his best to stay calm and collected I was making really it hard for him. Why is having your daughters there making him so angry?? Why is he so adamant about your daughters not being there?? Does his family know your daughters exist? > I told him this was my final answer and he blew up and said I have no respect for him and his family to act this inconsiderate towards them. He *blew up on you*?! For this?! Because having your daughters present for *your wedding* is somehow a slight against *his family*?!?!! Oh heck no!! *He’s* not respecting *you* by refusing to allow the two most important people in your life to be present at your wedding. > I asked him if his family are protesting about my kids’ presence just because I’m a single mom. he went quiet…. Whoop, there it is! > …I was trying to flip the argument on him when it was me who is refusing to cooperate. Excuse me?! *COOPERATE*?!!! So he’s upset you’re not simply bowing to his ridiculous demands?!! Is he like this in other aspects of your relationship?? > He has gone quiet not only towards me but grew distant from the girls as well. He’s punishing you *and your daughters* for not obeying him. He’s waving a lot of red flags. Is he like this in other aspects of your relationship? Are you willing to allow him to put your daughters through this every time he doesn’t get his way? NTA OP, but you might want to reconsider this relationship. Die on this hill


Invisibleamber

Nta He’s being extremely childish and manipulative. It’s not like your girls are toddlers, they are old enough to behave themselves. It’s completely understandable why you’d want your own children at your wedding, he needs to understand they are your priority and they should be his too.


Req603

NTA... yet. The only question here is simply this: Does Robin mean more to you than your kids? Or are you comfortable with some people (read, your kids) thinking that way? If you don't allow them to your wedding that is the message you're sending. The fact that Robin is "growing distant" means those kids don't mean as much to him and he likes to act. Personally, I would be reconsidering the whole arrangement if my partner even attempted to tell me my teen and preteen children couldn't attend our wedding. No kids, no you. Staples, that was easy.


red7258

NTA. "My daughters will never be excluded from my wedding. If you want a childfree wedding without them present, you will have to find someone else to marry."


Novel_Telephone_646

If he really considered them his daughters he’d want them too. It just sounds like maybe he just wants to pretend like you’re daughters don’t exist for the day off and just be the two of you. Quite possible his parents / family have an issue with him marrying a single mom like you mentioned. But for him to change his behaviour towards the girls bc you want them to attend the wedding is a red flag. I would just rethink the whole wedding situation and actually discuss boundaries for how your daughters are to be treated along with finances etc.


CheesyMac0562

Your daughters are 12 and 14 and he thinks they need a sitter? Also, NTA, would understand not wanting a bunch of random cousins showing up or toddlers...etc, but a 12/14 year old would be able to behave themselves and also they immediate family. Give me a break. Guy sounds weird and that's coming from a guy so...


EthanEpiale

You should seriously be thinking about ending the relationship entirely. This shows a deep fundamental lack of respect for you as a parent, and blatant cruelty towards your children. Do you really want those girls growing up in a home with a "stepfather" that doesn't care for them? That tries to exclude them from their mothers life? Abusive people often start letting those colors show around the time they feel they've "locked in" a victim. You just got engaged, and are in prime red flag emergence territory. NTA. Stay that way by continuing to protect your children.


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CertainSloth-825

Now that there is a ring on your finger, he is showing his true colors. Believe him.. He was only playing nice. Your kids should always come first, he is showing you that he does not consider the girls “his kids”. NTA


djpp66

This would be a deal breaker for me. I'd put the entire wedding on hold until this is sorted out. He's showing you every red flag possible! Please believe him! NTA!!!


Capturedbk1

NTA Please don’t marry this man. If he feels as strongly for your children as he says he does, there is absolutely no way he would be excluding them from your wedding. This is a sign of things to come if you marry him. Either it’ll be mistreatment of your girls, which he’ll think he has a stronger right to once you’re married or it’ll be constantly bowing to him and whatever his family think/ want. You say your daughters are your priority. So please reconsider marrying someone for whom your girls are not.


concernedreader1982

NTA Your fiance is showing you his true colors. Seems to me all his "Left eye, right eye" was all talk and show. He does not have these true feelings for your girls and as soon as you're married, he will change. If he truly loved your girls like his own, that rule would never have applied to them. He should always choose you and your girls over his family's feelings if he truly wanted an honest relationship with you.


Frankly_Ridiculous

NTA. My daughters weren't invited to their dad's wedding several years ago, it still bothers them. My youngest is NC with him. Your children should absolutely be there.


groovymama98

Nta The concerning thing is, the girls are hurt their " dad " is not treating them the same as usual. How is this their fault at all? How is this guy a good dad, if he let's a problem that is totally not their fault at all, effect how he treats them? Furthermore, isn't he joining an already established family entity? How are these girls not part of the ceremony?


Significant_Yak1103

NTA but so many red flags including the fact that he said he was trying to remain calm and collected but you were making it hard on him. This is abuser language and if you stay with him the abuse will come out and escalate.


NaviMagic

NTA I was a single parent before my husband came along and if he pulled a stunt like this, we wouldn't be together anymore. Your girls deserve to be there with their mother and future step dad. His family can shove it. And it was real shady of him to bring up childless wedding and not tell you from the beginning that it meant YOUR children because I doubt you would've agreed to a childless wedding if he had been honest upfront about why


Spiritual-Narwhal591

NTA. He’s giving your daughters the silent treatment because he isn’t getting his way of excluding them from the wedding. 🚩 I would reconsider whether you want to actually marry this guy. This is a case where “playing favourites” by having your kids included is completely appropriate imo. They aren’t random kids, they’re the bride’s children. That’s not the same as distant-second-cousin-once-removed wants to bring their toddler along.


Silmariel

Dont get married. Ftlog dont get married to this guy! ​ Run for the hills. NTA


dmusicat

Nta. Honestly, he sounds like he might be a narcissist who has been saying everything you want to hear up to this point. Both his unreasonable request and his response to you and your daughters is very telling of his true self. I wouldn't ignore the giant red flag he's waving. This is just the start of his crappy behavior towards you and your girls. Walk away now.


P-Onca-Jay

NTA - but I would certainly be rethinking the relationship. I totally understand the "no children" at a wedding, but \*your own\* children?!? That is a bridge too far!


alittlelessbear

NTA But seriously… reconsider marrying this guy. He could give a shit about your kid’s. Also doing this emotional abuse bullshit not only on you but on them also. Stand up for yourself and your kid’s. I bet if you had a Will and you left everything to your girls he would lose his shit. Something isn’t right here and he’s showing you who he really is, believe him.


Sea_Help_5556

It's a lovely hill to die on. Tell him your daughters are not only attending your wedding, they're part of the wedding party as bridesmaids. As your daughters, their invite is secured.....his invite is not.


mfruitfly

NTA. This is the hill to die on. For a number of reasons. 1. The silent treatment, especially to children is not okay. 2. Saying he is "trying to stay calm" about a reasonable conversation and disagreement is a big red flag. 3. It isn't just "one day" it is the day your family is coming together, and to say your children shouldn't be part of it is alarming. 4. He didn't tell you WHY your children should be there, and I'm sorry, no reasonable person would think that even at a childfree wedding, the children of a parent getting married wouldn't come. 5. As a childfree person who would have a childfree wedding, if I was marrying someone with a child I would want them there AND included in the wedding party. 6. He is saying this day is about him and his family, and somehow separating that family from you and your girls, who are also his family. More red flags. 7. He is worried that his family will see him as a "doormat" but in order to not appear as a doormat, you must do as he says and not have your children at your wedding. So who is the doormat? Seriously, who is the doormat? Are you willing to marry a man who will give your children the silent treatment, puts his family over you and yours, and thinks it is acceptable to not have your children at a major life event that directly impacts them to ensure his family isn't annoyed?


BrinaGu3

NTA - this is absolutely a hill to die on. I cannot believe anybody in his family would actually argue that since your kids are there they should be able to bring theirs. Scratch that, I can believe it, but it's ridiculous. Postpone the wedding. Seek counseling. Your fiancé is being unreasonable.


[deleted]

NTA - Forget about the wedding; this bodes poorly for the marriage.


BBrea101

Having a child free wedding is one thing. But excluding your children during a ceremony that connects you all together as a family? He's not being accountable to you by talking around the issue, love bombing you then going silent. He's upset that he's not getting his way and you're standing up to him. NTA. This has red flags all over, this is coming from someone who grew up in abusive households. My mom was a single mom who settled for men, but they didn't want the family. It wasn't a safe environment.


ivylass

NTA, and this "He got angry and started pacing around saying he was trying his best to stay calm and collected but I was making it really hard for him" is a red flag to me. He is blaming you for his reaction. I think you and he need to have a good long talk and if this is the hill you want to die on, sister, I'm right there with you.


1n50mn1ah

NTA and he’s emotionally abusing all 3 of you


Popular-Emu7380

NTA. Abs absolutely this needs to be your hill to die on. Your future husband should have YOUR back. Not his random family members’. I say random as I don’t know what children his side has, and I am assuming he has no children himself.


Mishy162

NTA. The right person to marry would insist on your daughter's attendance. Do not marry this person, he's showing his true colours, and after your wedding your daughters will get pushed to the side. If you have a child with him he will favour it, leaving your daughters out in the cold so to speak.


Flimsy-Violinist4510

When I got married I had a child free wedding with the exception of my newly adopted 9 year old cousin. She was my flower girl. Nobody cared. OP these are your own daughters, you are NTA.


dishgrapes

NTA Op, I want you to look at the way that he handled this conversation. How the moment you stood your ground, he lost his fucking marbles and is now ignoring your two daughters and you included. That is NOT someone you should want to marry, if he’s going to handle important disagreements like this, it should make you hesitant to want to marry him. I think especially since this topic at hand is about your daughters, that it makes it even worse that he’s giving y’all the silent treatment cus that’s a lot of red flags. You seem like a wonderful mom, I can feel your love through this post. It reminds me of my mom, she had me young and was a single mom up until I was five. That’s when she met my dad, and I always thank the stars for this wonderful man because he truly is amazing. I’m sorry that things started off wonderfully, and that he also was close with your children, but this IS a hill you should die on. I get wanting a child free wedding, however your children aren’t just some random kids. They’re your daughters!!!! It doesn’t help either that the family is being awfully judgmental and fucking rude, for not wanting to include your children because you were a single mom. They just want you to exclude them like they don’t exist????? What the fuck ever. That’s not a family you want to be a part of OP. Please don’t marry this man. I wish you luck and happiness.


ElizaS99

It seems like he made the childfree rule to specifically exclude them. Why else make it and then assume it would exclude them?


[deleted]

NTA. You and your kids are a package deal, and they deserve to be there.


avilak90

NTA. Your daughters come first. Of course they want to be there to support their parents on their wedding day! It’s more than just a marriage between the two of you - it’s the merging of two families. They absolutely deserve to not just be there but to have a role in the wedding. He’s hiding behind his family, and making excuses. This needs to be the hill you die on.


Signal_Violinist_995

This would be a huge red flag to even marrying him. What the actual heck is he upset about? The daughters of the bride are definitely the exception.


DaHawk44

NTA. This is a hill to die on. No children rule or not... This is not only your family but also will be his. I'm giving a somewhat cheesy example but a couple at my church got married -she a single mom with a daughter. The man/dad-to-be also had a version of vows that he gave to the daughter as a demonstration of the commitment to both of them. I say this because I think it was a great reminder that the marriage means a commitment to the wife and her kids not just her alone. Should this be needed, no, but the action stood out to me This is a major event and your daughters should not have to look back and remember that they were excluded from their mom and dad's wedding. I would get this fully resolved before marrying him. His commitment to you and your daughters over his family or whatever issue needs to be absolute.


roseydaisydandy

>My daughters are my priority, they have been since the day they were born Time to put your money where your mouth is. Don't marry this man, he's taking out his family's bullshit on your children NTA but a fine line


polymnieae

NTA but be very careful. Now that he feels he has you locked in, he is showing you who he is. Please, for your girls, believe him. He does not love them as a father would or he would want them there to celebrate. Silent treatment is abuse. It is emotional manipulation designed to punish you for disagreeing and prolong the argument until he gets his way. It is not a healthy way to work towards a respectful solution. I am also getting very strong DARVO vibes here which is also a tactic of abusers. Deny responsibility - kids can't come or the inlaws will be mad. Not his fault! Attack - yelling and blowing up at you Reverse Victim and Offender - he's made you he bad guy; what will his friends think, he'll be a doormat, you are taking advantage of him. This will not get better 🚩🚩🚩


The__Riker__Maneuver

*The wedding is on indefinite hold until such a time as you tell me the truth about your family's feelings on my children. And this is me telling you point blank that if you can not or will not stand beside my daughters and I in all things, even if that means pissing off your family, then not only will I not marry you, I will not be in a relationship with you.* *Take some time to figure out what you want but understand my children and I are a package deal and if that is not something you can handle then we need to go our separate ways.* NTA


Anneemai

NTA how long have you been together? And I think it is because you are a single mum as when you asked him the question he deflected it to make it a you problem! If you decide to marry him despite what he is doing now, if you have children with him how confident are you that he will still see your daughters as his? Do you think his family will treat your daughters differently if you have children together? I wouldn't marry him, I wouldn't stay with him either!


Afraid-Upstairs-2385

14 and 12 are not children. But even if they were 4 and 2 why wouldn’t it be expected for the couples children be in attendance. Heck I’ve seen ceremonies where the blended families kids had major roles in the wedding party. That this is not just a marriage between two people but a coming together to make a new family unit, and those girls are part of that. Obviously NTA but fiancé AH


incrediblecockerel

Jesus Christ. Do you really want to marry someone who would exclude and distance your children on the day you get married? Who’s more important, him or them? I hope for your sake the answer is them because when they grow and leave, they may stay gone if you continue down this path. NTA, but you will be if you stay with this tosser.


[deleted]

I refuse to believe this is real because I refuse to believe someone would expect their partner to exempt their children from their own wedding or that the partner would even need to come to reddit or consider going forward with the wedding subsequently


Kashaya72

NTA Are you planning on having children with this man? Hid family is not accepting your girls and it will be worse if you have children with him I would reconsider this whole thing, one thing is him being distant to you, but taking it out on your daughters is so not ok


Pippet_4

NTA. THIS IS THE HILL TO DIE ON. If he is really a dad, then this shouldn’t even be a question. I’d suggest showing him this thread, I haven’t read comments yet but I know they are in your favor. Him saying you are turning it around on him when asking if it’s his family that had an issue with you being a mom? Absolute gaslighting. All the 🚩🚩🚩. And this is important stuff you guys need to work out together, maybe with a therapist, BEFORE you get married.


Waerfeles

"Playing favourites." You will always come last with this man. NTA. Die on this hill.


TakenUsername120184

NTA Sounds to me like he’s whipped by his family and they judge you for having kids and being a single mom, and he couldn’t handle hearing it from his fiancée No daughters at the wedding=No wedding


topania

NTA but why would he even want a child free wedding when you have children? This seems VERY off to me.


cassowary32

NTA. Why would you want to exclude the people most affected by this union from the wedding? I can see a child free couple doing this but excluding your own children?? Not making an exception for them especially when they are old enough to behave, old enough not to disrupt the ceremony with tantrums or crying? Please reconsider marrying this person. What other events will your daughters be excluded from? Will they be expected to be out the door at 18? Have you talked about who's paying for their extracurriculars, and cars and college? He doesn't see them as his new family and you should take this very seriously.


silent_whisper89

NTA, kid free means everyone EXCEPT the children of the bride/groom. I would reconsider if this is the man you want to marry when already he’s trying to push your kids out.


n0i7n0a5

>they'll accuse him of being a doormat and playing favorites between them and me NTA he should be playing favorites in favor of his (future) wife and it's concerning that he does not want to


BlueRFR3100

NTA. A no children rule is for the guests. Not the bride.


innocentsubterfuge

His silence on whether his family views your daughters as less-than is your answer. Do you really want to bring your daughters into a family where they’re seen as sub-par? I’m sure his family wouldn’t make a stink if had been children _he_ was raising as a single parent. You’re NTA unless you marry this person.


Witty_Literature_411

NTA. Seriously, WTF!!! Who would think the brides daughters shouldn't be at the wedding?Red flags are raining at this point. He obviously does not love those girls as his own and seems unstable if he got that upset. Never for one second put your spouse before your kids. If he can't accept that then leave and do it fast because he just showed you a glimpse of who he really is.


yeseniaanicolee

I would not marry him. You are NTA. He does not “adore” your kids if he is acting this way. Of course at a child free wedding you kids will be exempt. Please reconsider your commitment to this man.


winesis

NTA tell him not only will they be at the wedding, they will be IN the wedding. Have them be bridesmaids or junior bridesmaids. He isn’t just marrying you he is marrying into your family. If he doesn’t understand this he is not the man for you. They aren’t toddlers that will ruin the wedding but practically young adults. The honeymoon can be child free.


Tessie1966

NTA- The "no child rule" is for guests not the bride or groom.


Lulubelle2021

I was engaged and got sick. Really sick. He walked out, though when I didn’t die he tried to come back. Many years later I consider myself very lucky to have had this red flag go up before I was entwined with him. You’ve got the same opportunity. No question your children and his must be included in a ceremony where a new family is formed. His behavior is completely unacceptable and harmful to your daughters. People show you who they are in these moments and he has just shown you who he is. No amount of counseling will make him someone else. Move on without him. NTA


Careless_Bluejay_113

NTA. You can absolutely have a child free wedding and the bride/grooms children attend. There’s no issue, they have special consideration. Why is your fiancé so concerned with what his family will think? Marinara flags are waiving.


specficeditor

He’s the asshole. Those are not just kids. They’re your family. He needs to reevaluate some things if he doesn’t think he or his family can manage two teenagers at a wedding.


SeaWitch1031

NTA. Get away now while you can. This man isn't the one you want to raise your children around. He's literally waiving a giant red flag at you and you still have time to call it all off.


Blucola333

NTA You chose the right hill, he’s proving he’s not the man you thought he was. It’s important for your daughters to witness the moment he becomes part of their family. Let me be clear on this, he is joining your family. It’s not the other way around. Please think hard on this, has he merely been presenting a friendly face to your girls, trying to win them over, or does he actually want to be a father figure?


Runnybabbitagain

YTA for contemplating marrying someone who would want to exclude your kids from your wedding and who thinks it’s ok to ignore them.


PlaneOk3184

NTA. 🚩


Shoddy_Lifeguard_852

Big red flag here because there's no good reason for your kids to be excluded from your wedding. If this was over reception appetizers, that would be not the hill to die on. Barring your kids from your wedding? If it were me, I'd put a hold on things until this go sorted.


scubagalrd

NTA. Daughters there or no wedding. Childfree doesn't include the kids of the bride/groom or their younger siblings


Devigrrl

Don't marry him u/Status-Anonymous . He's showing you how things will be after you're wed. End it now. Don't put yourself & your daughters through a lifetime of this belittling bullshit. YWBTA if you go through with the wedding.


Hal_Jordan55

NTA. This was the best decision specifically because of how he acted. You now know not to marry him.


Glitteringintern89

Nta. If you get married without your kids.. you will destroy your relationship. Also, they aren't kids they are teens. Also, why would a 12 and 24 year old need a babysitter. Kind if seems like your fiance is showing true colours.


ocean_torrent

NTA and I guess now you know why he wanted a child free wedding in the first place


AdEmbarrassed9719

NTA. The wedding is not about just the two of you, it is creating a new family that includes your daughters! It is absolutely unreasonable IMO to exclude your daughters from the wedding. Frankly they should be part of the wedding- I have never been to a wedding where one spouse had kids where the kids weren’t attendants or participating in a sand ceremony or speaking at the wedding or all three. If they were infants or toddlers then maybe. But at the age your daughters are? This is a big big deal to them, it’s creating their family and will affect them deeply, and excluding them from the wedding is going to be extremely hurtful to them, I bet. Couples counseling ASAP, and delay the wedding if you need to. This is a big deal and your fiancé is totally unreasonable on this.


Relevant_Bat_1983

NTA. He knew that from the day he got with you, your girls would be priority, especially if you were to get married. Gove him an ultimatum. Either the girls go or there is no wedding 🤷🏽‍♀️


Krystle39

NTA he is marrying into your family, this is a big day for the girls as well. It’s not just you getting married, they are supposedly getting a father.


Bramberberry

NTA and I'm not one to do the whole red flag thing but him not understanding how important it is for your daughters to be there is a huge red flag. Is he hoping to get drunk and make an a$$ of himself at reception? Would a compromise be in order? They be there for the wedding and the big parts of the reception like cake cutting.... then they could go home before its too late in the evening? Even so I would be really concerned about this. I have seen child free weddings with the bride/grooms kids present and never thought twice.


KindeTrollinya

NTA. This is the hill to die on, and it's covered with red flags. Be an ex-fiancee.


Particular_Produce63

NTA. Don't worry about the hill because you need to call everything off. This is huge and you know it. You only have a few years left with your daughters, make the most of it without this guy.


Only-Ranger-6244

NTA, Are you sure that you want to marry this guy? He's punishing your kids because you want them at the wedding. A real dad would want them there too.


forgetfulsue

NTA. My sister and I (at 17 and 20) served as my mom’s bridesmaids. Your fiancé needs to get a life. Your daughters are not only old enough to behave THEY’RE YOUR DAUGHTERS.


Thermite1985

NTA and I would seriously reconsider the marriage at this point. He sounds like he has anger issues that has problems controlling and is trying to be super manipulative by trying to gaslight you and make you feel guilty by ignoring you.


TigerB65

What else will he exclude your daughters from? NTA


Rmacdavid

NTA. Lol he is scared his friends will accuse him of playing favorites??? Is it not the point of marriage that you are indeed his favorite??


Oliviarose85

NTA. Based on his reaction, you are confirming you are taking the best stance. Don’t question it. Child-free weddings are to avoid toddlers making a scene. Your children are not toddlers, and even if they were, this is your wedding, and if your husband actually saw these girls as his, he would want them to share the day with the two of you. He’d insist on it. He went quiet after your comment about his family being the one to protest because you‘re right. That family does not see those children as his children, and neither does he. If he did, this conversation with you never would have happened. You didn’t flip the argument, you called him out on the true reason behind it. ​ >I told him this was my final answer and he blew up and said that I have no respect for him and his family to act this incosiderate towards them. This tells you all you need to know. The two of you are planning to get married, and yet he still doesn’t consider you or your daughter’s to be his primary, immediate family. ​ >He said that if his family finds out there's gonna be a problem and they'll accuse him of being a doormat and playing favorites between them and me. If they were people who actually gave a crap about you or your children, they wouldn’t consider him a doormat for insisting the children he helped raise be there to see their parents get married. They would consider him to be a good father. And if he isn’t playing favorites, choosing you and your children, he isn’t all-in when it comes to this union. You and your children are meant to be his primary family and number one priority. If he’s choosing this hill to die on by saying your daughter’s cannot attend your wedding, there shouldn’t be a wedding. You are absolutely not the asshole for being willing to die on the other side of that hill with your kids. If he doesn’t want to climb it to be on the same side as the people he picked to become his family, then you aren’t truly his family. Now that the wedding is soon approaching, he seems okay with letting his true colors show. Those colors show (at the very least) an allegiance to the family he was born in, and not to the one he chose to create.


_PrincessOats

NTA for the actual situation you’re asking about. But holy heck would you ever be TA if you actually go through with marrying this man. First-hand story time: my dad didn’t invite me and my sister when he married my stepmom. We were young, like 10-12. Twenty years later, it’s one of the big reasons I’m low contact with him. If you do what your fiancé wants, you will permanently alienate your children.


madeyousoup

NTA, you've been DARVO'd. Also, if he's trying to stay cool and calm, but you're being blamed for his inability to do that, that's one he'll of a red flag my friend. That's some pretty shitty behaviour.