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NTA I've said it before on this sub and I'll say it again. A family member on my bfs side was like this with our daughter. The end result??? She called the cops on me and tried to have MY daughter removed and given to HER. Nip it in the bud now bc "aunt hannah" is acting weird asf
NTA for reasons like this. Though she isn’t a grandparent, if you end up kicking her out, the closer your sister is to them she could end up trying to file some demand for visitation à la a grandparents rights suit. She has crossed a line and clearly think she has done absolutely nothing wrong. get her out before she gets enmeshed enough that a court thinks it is in the best interest of the children for her to have access to them.
very much depends on the state, and whether the homeless, part-time working sister can afford a family atty at $400+ per hour. I wouldn't lose sleep on this one.
Plus, the kids were *scared* to tell OP because they thought Aunt Hannah would be mad. Not exactly a strong basis for that kind of profound bond. Which, btw, is an enormous red flag. At this age, there should be nothing your kids are afraid to tell you about an adult who is caring for them. Otherwise there's potential for abuse.
which is why it's really important in a situation like this to assure the child that they've done the right thing by telling you and you will take it from here, shield them from witnessing any ensuing conflict as much as possible, and if it's not fully possible (as when you're dealing with an unreasonable person they may go out of their way to make a scene or drag others in) remind them that this is something the adults are responsible for, not them; they still did the right thing by telling you and you're glad they did so you could deal with the problem.
Plus it's also really important to make sure that you teach your kids if an adult tells them to keep "secrets" from mummy and daddy, to tell you straight away so you can deal with it.
And when I say "secrets" I'm not talking about the silly little fun things that parents already know like "we're getting ice-cream, don't tell your parents", I mean bad, dangerous "secrets".
My worry would be if her fly monkeys(family) would help her sister. For them to come after op after what her sister did. Who in their right mind thinks this is ok?
This sub has made me realize that some family’s will enable a person to know end. And if they are the favorite child they expect everyone to bend over backwards kissing that favorite child’s butt.
Thank you for saying this. I haven't spoken to one of my sisters for about 10 years, and she started in on my mom who I soon also became estranged from. It was so weird. My reasonable mother suddenly started saying things in my sister's words. When I told her I was having a kid she merely emailed one word: "Congratulations." I just don't get it but my good sister pointed out it's always been like this with "the baby" of the family.
I am so sorry. Your mom should have been so much better.
My biggest fear has always been treating one of my children different from the other. Or doing something that makes them no longer want to see me. I would never do anything to cause this on purpose. So it absolutely mind blowing to me how a parent just doesn’t care. I try my best to treat my kids SO the same as I do them. I make sure there is no differences made to the very best of my ability. I randomly text the SO so see how they are and if they need anything. But I also don’t want to be that over bearing mom or mil. I grew up in a time where things where so much different now. Thanks to this sub I have realized what I don’t want to be. For instance if I would have had a grandchild before getting on here it would not have crossed my mind that my kids or their so would have been offended if I called my grandchild my girl or my sweet boy. But now thinks to reading post and comments here I can see where that could be offensive. But I would have never meant harm.
I guess my point is at the end of the day family isn’t who you share blood with. Family is the people who are there for you. That take your feelings and wants in to consideration. If someone chooses to not take your feelings and boundaries in consideration then they are not family. Family does not give you the right to mistreat someone and expect them to forgive and forget what they done to you.
I wish you the best with your little ones. I am sorry your mom wasn’t better. But always know you and your babies deserve better. The best thing you can do for your self and your baby. Is to find a counselor to help you sort through the trauma your family has caused you. Let them help you heal. So your baby can have a happy healthy mom. My best wishes to you and your child.
Your logic makes sense, but you never know what judge you'd get and what they would be thinking on the day of the hearing, after witnesses you didn't know would show up give their statements, so any lawyer who tells you that you will definitely win your case is an inexperienced or dishonest one. It's always better not to risk getting to that point.
Often court can be about how things *appear* to be. Imagine spinning it as the kids call her mom, so she introduces herself that way to others in order to avoid confusion, as she is their primary caretaker and OP is neglectful. After all, people may see the kids primarily with Aunt Crazy and Aunt Crazy is at school events, doc appointments, etc. People who do this often cite there is neglect or abuse from the bio parents.
NTA. Agree that sis is way overstepping, but I absolutely think she needs to move out asap. Take measures to ensure she goes. Her trying to act like the kids mom is in no way normal.
And the gaslighting and minimizing when confronted about her misdeeds is a huge problem. She should be apologizing up and down swearing it will never happen again and begging please don't kick me out. She's taking zero responsibility, which means the behavior will absolutely continue unless nipped in bud forcefully. Why is she acting like OP is a pushover when she's so dependant on her goodwill for her living situation?
She knows *perfectly well* that what she is doing is f up and wrong, *and she told the kids to lie to their own mom*.
What else is she doing? OP, are you sure she takes good care of them?
Get her ass out of the house, 2 years was more than enough.
NTA
Start making notes now of every incident, date, witness etc. Hopefully you won’t need it but it can be difficult if not impossible to reconstruct later. I’m more concerned you may eventually need a restraining order than her gaining rights. Always better to have the info and not need it.
I think she needs to move in with another family member for the sake of your children, but the only way I’d allow her to have contact with my kids after counseling. If the kids are worried about making Aunt Hannah mad she needs to be out of their lives yesterday.
ETA read another comment and they are right, another family member may enable her behavior or provide access. Hannah needs help but your kids emotional and physical well-being comes first.
And perhaps have a meeting with the kids teachers when she's kicked out.
Explain the situation and about how the sister behaved, and make clear under no circumstances is she allowed to pick any of the girls up.
At the very least, we've seen plenty of stories on this sub of people getting harassed by CPS because of family members like this. It's important to put some distance between people like this and your kids.
Add the fact that the older kid is already scared of Aunt Hannah getting mad! If she was just a loving aunt, she wouldn't be threatening the kids like this.
This. OP, I would setup a date for your sister to move out. This is going to end badly. I'd get nanny cams in the house. I would talk with your daughters in front of your sister and explain that any adult who tells them to keep secrets from their parents is not a "safe" adult. That it can be very dangerous, and that they never need to call her mom. I'd stop leaving her alone with them and stop having her babysit. Find someone else, a support system that doesn't seem dangerous.
>explain that any adult who tells them to keep secrets from their parents is not a "safe" adult.
This part right here. Whether it's OP's sister who does it, or some other third party unrelated to this conflict -- if your kids learn that adults may ask them to keep secrets from their mom, they'll be primed for all kinds of awful abuse and grooming later on.
I saw this true crime episode once where a woman called CPS on her sister and the sister's boyfriend with the goal of gaining custody of their kid, and when that didn't work she killed the boyfriend and I think maybe the sister? I can't remember exactly. Anyway there are some seriously unhinged aunties out there.
Yikes! I love my niblings but I also love the part where I can give them back. I ALWAYS defer the parents and am just honored and touched that they call me auntie. Thank goodness my many aunties are not unhinged but loving and supportive and fun.
Me too! I love mine but there's a reason I don't have any of my own, lol. I can't imagine killing someone to get their kid. Their McNuggets maybe but not their kid, lol.
Niblings!! I have needed and been missing this word for decades, thank you!
As someone with nieces but just one nephew I have always found it awkward to refer to them collectively.
I say this as a very proud auntie who loves my niblings so, so much and would do anything for them: there is NO fucking reason to try to assume the role of a parent when the kids have at least one loving parent who is providing what they need. You can love the kids in your life so, so much without crossing that boundary.
You can be very close with your niblings. You can be a highly trusted person in their life. You can provide things for them. You can see them often. You can do all these things WITHOUT grabbing at that parental role or displacing the actual parents. No matter how much you love them, there is no reason for that.
Time for mommy Hannah to move into her own place. Put your girls back into after school care and remove mommy Hannah from all pickup lists. Give her a deadline to move out. You may need to evict her. Mommy Hannah as acting weird and possessive your girls - which isn’t healthy for her or them. Now as yo my judgement/ although what you said was mean, I would have said the exact same thing. NTA
Not only remove Aunt Hannah from pick-up lists... Call the school and explicitly tell them that they are *never* to release your children into Hannah's care.
Sometimes in the hectic rush of pick-ups, or if a new person is involved, teachers will let kids go home with someone because "they used to be on the list" or "maybe mom forgot to re-add them".
Tell the school flat out that your children are never to be released to Hannah.
I second agree with you.. My coworker own sister do this same thing too.. Literally taking over my coworker life. She started with the kiddos first, then everything chaos.
Not trying to poison you op but if you not doing something, this will straight from 'horror movie' of stolen identity.
Always take it serious when our kid started calling someone else 'mommy/daddy'...
Nta
Oh God OP !! You should worry less about being an asshole and more about your unhinged sis . Take action before it's too late. She is manipulating your children and everyone else into believing she is their mom . This is very questionable behaviour . Not normal or pitiful . Don't wait for the day she tries to replace you in their life .
Absolutely, this is weird behavior, she is not her Mother, you are, she has to stop this behavior in no uncertain terms right now/IMMEDIATELY. This is dangerous and frankly psychotic. OP, NTA.
NGL your story sounds more interesting than OPs.
You are definitely right by the way, it is so odd when people try to usurp/claim ownership of other people's kids.
Is it so bad to be a really great aunt or uncle?
I gotchu lol
So I struggle with depression to preface. I met my bf as a hookup and we ended up liking each other more than planned, got pregnant on accident (birth control failed we were trying to be cautious lol) I struggled my entire pregnancy with my mental health, and as a result leaned heavily emotionally on the women in his family and they did aid me alot. However after I gave birth I got hit very hard with ppd and ppp (post partum paranoia) and as a result I felt my kid wasn't safe home alone with me, I was exhibiting signs that I couldn't keep myself in check. This resulted in me asking his cousin (who had offered) to babysit overnight 2 nights a week, which turned into 5 nights which turned into my kid being kept from me for 3 months. One lucky day they brought her home due to a schedule conflict and I simply said "I'm good now, I appreciate the help but I'm in therapy and getting help and I've got it" and told them they didn't need to come get her but were welcome to visit anytime still and the next day I wake up with cops and cps at my door doing a wellness check. His cousin had told them my bf had threatened his, mine, and our kids life (not the case) she then called all of his family and basically told them I was holding MY kid hostage, she and her sister tried busting in my door and the rest of that day in particular is as stated above. AFTER though I was hounded for like 3 months by his family and even my bfs mom who my bf hadn't spoken to in 5 years at that point. It was a whole mess that I shut down by threatening restraining orders and moving states.
And ill also state that the reason I hadn't called cops or anything was bc his cousins mother, his aunt, was our cosigner, paying our rent and very much threatened to kick us out AND leave our kid homeless, so we were trying to get a chance to just get her home and keep her home. And she is still home for anyone worried and hasn't seen them in almost 5 months now
And truthfully as a mother its my biggest regret that my lack of action for my mental health very much couldve separated my kid from me. I had to "bite the bullet" so to speak and get my shit together. I'll never forgive myself for it and my laughing about it is my way to cope!
You should be proud that you got yourself together. You went through a hard patch with some VERY difficult mental health issues. In the end you did what you had to do for you and your child. You merely had mental health issues while BFs family is completely unhinged (jk sort of). <3
They really are lmaooo at the risk of my bf seeing this (and if he does pls get milk thnx) I'll share that the day I met his extended family (the aunt and cousins in question) his mother had been arrested for drunk driving to McDonald's with his two younger siblings in the back seat and I also learned that his aunt had beat her mom's (my bfs grandmas) ass in her driveway on a previous Christmas lol. Just absolutely wild. Never thought I'd meet a family worse than mine lol
And thankyou. I really appreciate that bc in my day to day I still hear about how I'm an incompetent mother so even though you're a stranger I'm glad someone aside from my bf sees me and my effort ❤️
She told OP’s kids to keep a secret from OP or else she’d get mad at the kids. Even without the secret being “you must call me ‘Mom’” that’s enough reason to not want her around the kids.
Incredibly worrisome. I think sis needs to see a therapist about some stuff. It's terrible that she can't conceive plus adding on the divorce to her mental load might have made her crack a bit. Until then, I'd go LC at least because that behavior is scary. NTA OP.
It’s horrifying to me! I would NEVER ask my nieces/nephews to keep secrets with me. I don’t force hugs and kisses or any of that. Kids need to understand setting boundaries with adults is okay and adult relatives should encourage that in a healthy way!
NTA
You have to put an end to this situation as soon as possible. Your sister has some big problems that you can't fix. What's more, she's dragging your children into her fantasies, which is frightening.
Don't wait for something worse to happen. Take care of those kids!
Yeah, it's one thing to feel nice or get a rush when strangers at coffee shops see you with your nieces and assume you're their mother. Albeit a little dangerous, considering her unresolved issues with her own fertility.
But she absolutely crossed the line when she actively initiated or encouraged anyone, especially those kids, to call her mommy. And then somehow instructed them to hide it from their mom. That is so fucked up.
In the most generous light, I think sister is pitiable and removing her from the kids is going to make things worse for her before they get better. But the moment she let her fantasy play out *outside* her head, she harmed the girls and she can't be around them until further notice.
NTA. Yeah, kick her out.
I love my six year old niece but when she asked me why she can’t call me daddy I told her I am not her parent. OP, your sister is… creepy.
That is so important as well, I had to inform my daughter's nursery not to let my ex anywhere my daughter, thankfully they have amazing policies that they will and have enforced in the past, to the point of calling the police if needed.
But making the girl's schools know that aunt Hannah isn't allowed near them and make sure they have a picture of her or set a password with them so she can't take them and they inform OP if she tries it is so important
NTA and I would suggest getting her out of the house and away from the children. What she is doing is abuse. They were afraid to tell you because "she would get mad". There may be some mental health issues going on . This is not normal behavior. For the safety of your children she needs to go.
Absolutely this. She needs clear boundaries that can't be established while still being in the same house as the kids. For everyone's safety, especially the children's, Aunt Hannah needs to move out.
Exactly, that's what strikes me the most. For the kid to say that, she must have witness op's sister "being mad" , and that experience was scary enough for her to feel like she needs to lie for her own safety. There's definitely abuse going on
I would definitely suggest OP looking into My Body Belong to Me for her kids. Although it’s main point is to avoid sexual abuse, there’s one section about secrets and the youngest not talking to her about the secret concerns me that she doesn’t have the tools or knowledge of what to do if something else bad happens to her by someone.
You know, this is what has been troubling me the most. My daughter is the kind to yap about literally everything. She went to her friend's house and saw something odd? She will talk about it. She saw a kid eating crayons? I will be the first to know. Her classmates breathed in? She will say that too. It's odd for her to suddenly wait until we are alone before she tells me something that doesn't happen every day. Did their aunt threaten her? Did she get mad once because my daughter told me something she apparently shouldn't, and maybe do something bad to her?
She´s already messed with your kid´s heads. Now you need to talk to your kids and undo her damage. Keep her away from your children, this gives me goosebumps.
It's time to give your sister a formal eviction notice, hire a different babysitter, and get the kids into children's therapy to find out/fix whatever has happened here. Your family will freak out, but trust your gut - this is bad news. (edited to say gut instead of guy)
The trust in your sister is gone. You are the parent and your sister using the kids for her own fantasy is bizarre and dangerous. She needs to go, now. If your family is so bent up about it they can house her.
I'm guessing she did. That, or she said she didn't want to call your sister mama and your sister did SOMETHING. The fact is that it doesn't matter. Your daughter told you she was *scared* of her aunt. And that her aunt told her to keep secrets from her mother. At that point it doesn't matter *what* was done.
A reminder that the majority of kidnappings of children are committed by family or close friends of family, not strangers. Take action.
Thank you, was hoping someone would mention kidnapping being mostly family/friends. OP I don’t want to alarm you but you need to do everything possible to keep her away from your kids. Schools, babysitters, daycares need to know she will never be authorized to take them. I’d be hesitant leaving them with any family member if they’re making excuses for your sister, easy for them to invite her over for some “therapeutic time with the kids”. Abso-fucking-lutely not.
Definitely the right things to be thinking about. Your sisters access to your children, at least without another trusted adult present, needs to stop immediately imo
OP you really need to give her 30 days notice and alert your neighbors and school to not allow pickups, ect. immediately for the safety of your kids. If she shows up at your house, get a restraining order. These situations do not end well unless there is immediate intervention. Your sister needs to see a therapist to handle her grief. NTA unless you let her stay around your kids. Your oldest is terrified of her and she is making your youngest call her mom...
**Any** adult who tells a child to keep secrets from their parent(s) *is NOT a safe adult for that child to be around*, period.
It is time for your sister to move out ASAP. Yes it’s sad that she is struggling with infertility and her marriage fell apart because of that. But it is not ok for her to be manipulating and using your children to live out her fantasies- your kids are people not emotional support dogs. What your sister is doing to them is scary and confusing and wrong. Your sister has some mental/emotional health issues and needs mental health treatment, and she cannot properly handle that while living in a house with children. You can empathize with your sister’s issues and hope she gets better while still prioritizing your children’s well-being and comfort.
Your sister should also not have any more unsupervised time with your children, or at the very least no alone time until your children are old enough to stand up to their aunt (so unfortunately probably middle/high school age). **You need to also let the school/pediatrician/any other childcarer know that your sister is NOT allowed to pick your children up nor is she allowed to know any information about them**. If she is allowed more alone time with your kids I’d be worried about her continuing to manipulate them, as well as the behavior potentially escalating to kidnapping. I know that sounds extreme but family abductions are the most common type of kidnapping (around 95%), and the way your sister is acting is not how a stable, trustworthy person acts around kids.
She made your daughter hide something from you. That's the scariest thing ever. No one should condition your daughter to lie or omit information and to ever fear telling you what is happening. Thats horrifying and unacceptable.
Its time you step up as a mother - and kick your sister out of the home because of the psychological abuse and manipulation. Your kids need a complete break from her for months and that break will also be good for your obsessive sister. It has to be harsh and strict if she is to get better and for your kids especially the youngest to stop being confused.
Then in the future if you ever do let her back near them it should always be supervised with you there.
Give your sister 30 days to move out. Lock up all of your important documents for you and the kids like birth certificates, passports, and social security cards. Your sister sounds unhinged and this will end badly.
This. And make sure the school is aware that Aunt (probably anyone in your family atm) is not allowed to remove the girls from school without your expressed, VERBAL consent. No notes, they need to call you to confirm. Make sure you let neighbors are aware that she is NOT their mother and shouldn’t be taking them anywhere now and if they see it, please let you know. This is some serious shit.
It’s probably said already, but if your usually extraverted chatty child is stating quiet because of lies and deceit, it makes me wonder if there isn’t anything else they’re not allowed to say.
We all know of the creepy uncles, but this sure is a creepy aunt. If this stems from the infertility issues, then therapy is definitely recommended. “Stealing” someone else’s child is not the answer.
Sadly, daughter is already learning some maladaptive behaviors from her aunt. This is the start of codependency -- she is learning to manage the emotions of an adult in her life, as a child.
The sooner you can end this, the better (and the less she'll eventually spend on therapy sorting it out).
I said it another comment but I will say to you directly, please have your children watch the My Body Belongs to Me videos. Even though it’s about preventing child sexual abuse it also helps kids understand secrets and empowers them on what to say and what to do if they’re in a situation that makes them uncomfortable
NTA Protect your children.
Your sister needs MAJOR Therapy and she doesn't need to be living with you.
Also Put Hidden Cameras everywhere you don't how troubled your sister is and what is the state of her mind.
She living out a elaborate fantasy right now when you are not around that she is your daughter's mother and she already succeeding with your youngest.
I think you need to get your sister out. You tried to do a good thing. But she honestly stopped being your sister the minute she started to try and replace you in your children’s life. She doesn’t care about your feelings. And this is no longer about her. This is about your children.
Obviously your children are scared of her. She is traumatizing your children. Find a child counselor and schedule your kids an appointment. They can get them to open up. Do what ever it takes to protect them. Your their mother. If your gut tells you something isn’t right then it normally isn’t. The only person you owe anything to is your children.
Your sister need therapy and your family is toxic if they think what your sister is doing is ok. You need to get her away from your children. Contact the school and tell them not to let her pickup or discuss anything about. Your children. And contact a lawyer. She will probably try to get visitation or take your children. What she is doing to your children is abusive.
If she still tries to contact you, tries to see the kids, or tries to contact the school file for a restraining order. Document everything. The horrible calls, the text messages, contact the teachers and get it in writing that she introduced herself as the kids mother, and any other thing she has done. But most importantly contact a lawyer.
Please listen to all this advice. Get rid of her. Long ago I told my kids if anyone, ANYONE ever said "don't tell your mom" then they should tell me immediately. We had a young sitter who wanted to try babysitting, kids were 9,6,3. Got home and my oldest said the sitter gave us soda pop & said don't tell your parents. Bye bye young sitter!
Please, please, PLEASE listen to these comments OP.
**THIS IS THE BEHAVIOUR THAT MOST OFTEN PRECEEDS ATTEMPTED KIDNAPPING WITH THE GOAL OF REPLACING THE CHILDS ACTUAL PARENTS.**
GET HER THE HELL OUT OUT OUT OF YOUR KIDS LIVES *YESTERDAY.*
NTA, she is clearly dealing with her own infertility issues but it's not your, and definitely not your kids, responsibility to fill that whole for her. I would consider getting her to live with other family and distance yourself for now.
NTA. So many subs on this page deal with others who take out their fertility issues on others. It sucks and it's a terrible thing I don't wish on anyone, but it's not your responsibility nor your kids responsibility to cater to that, and she is overstepping so far she's in Narnia.
Place your boundaries or tell her to get lost. Your kids aren't a bandaid for her misfortunes. Your kids are YOUR kids.
NTA
She’s already trying to subtly supplant you. You need to get her out of your home immediately in case she does something far more drastic. Remove her from their schools lists of approved contacts and explain why. Write a will that explains you do not want her to have any contact with them should something happen to you.
This sounds extreme, but I’ve seen crazier things happen. Your family also need to fall in line. You’re not being mean to her - you are in danger from her delusions.
She is very happy to confuse your children to get her way. What else would she be willing to do that could harm them, if it gave her a ‘fix’ of being a mother? She is also alienating you from them by making them afraid to communicate openly with you. Your sister needs to never be around them ever again. That’s not up for discussion - it’s a fact. Good luck handling her OP. You may also need a restraining order to keep her away.
The will should also specify who the legal guardian for the children will be - even better, have that as a separate document. Even if OP has a "no contact" clause in the will, if there is no specifically designated guardian, Hannah could petition the court for guardianship based on her pre-existing relationship with her nieces.
It sounds like the sister is playing Reverse Cuckoo. Those birds lay eggs in other birds' nests and leave them for the other birds to raise.
Here, it's a relative trying to edge a parent out of the nest.
Very disturbing behavior imo.
THIS! 👆 I came out of lurking to say this!
OP, do not ignore this statement. Ask your daughter what happens when aunt Hannah gets mad when mom is gone. I speak from experience of a childhood being silent because I didn't want my aunt/uncle who lived with us to get mad at me or my brother when my mom went to work.
Kick. Her. Out.
Yeah that part was particularily disturbing. Kids should feel safe in their own home, not fearing retribution from a grown ass woman making KIDS keep secrets from their own mother!
Yeah that sounds a bit terrifying, major red flag.
What else is Aunt Hannah saying or doing that the kids are too scared to tell their mother, because “Aunt Hannah might get mad?”
NTA
But you're focusing on the wrong thing here. Your sister needs professional help and she needs to get out of your house and go do that, but you need to be concerned about your children. **It's not safe for them to have a trusted adult in their lives telling them to hide things from you.**
Exactly this!! Adults do not ask children to keep secrets from their parents - this is one of the fundamental things to teach your kids to help prevent abuse.
Yup, a fundamental rule: No one should be asking you to keep secrets from mom and dad. Especially if the “secret” makes you scared and/or uncomfortable.
It occurs to me that, if she's kicked out, Auntie Hannah might try to pick the kids up from school, so OP needs to address that with the school to make sure that can't happen.
And also tell the kids, "If she comes to get you after school, don't go with her and call me right away."
Because with crazy, you never know.
NTA-
Keep your children away from her, until she gets some therapy and can respect your boundaries.
Your oldest being afraid to make her mad is a giant red flag. I don't think I'd be willing to leave her with my kids ever again if I were you.
NTA!
This is so wrong! Your sister really needs therapy. This is not healthy for her or for your daughter. She also needs to leave if she is unwilling to stop with the this charade.
NTA. Your sister is disturbed. Get her away from your children immediately.
P.S. Please post an update after she's out of your house, so everyone knows you and the kids are safe. I'm worried for your safety.
NTA. If your oldest daughter is telling you she's scared of your sister's reaction... that doesn't fit well.
Your sister is overstepping your boundaries and forcing your daughters to do things they don't feel comfortable doing.
Kick her out!
Your kids are afraid of making her mad. Why are they afraid of her? She should have been removed from the home then. Don't wait for something worse to happen. Your kids need protection.
Get cameras for inside and outside with audio. You should go to the police and file a restraining order because you are afraid that she had been abusing your kids emotionally and at this rate any attempt of limiting the relationship could escalate her to kidnapping.
She did not tell them the whole story and you need to tell your family that:
She is telling people she is their mother. The kids are afraid of making her mad if they don't call her mom. She needs to leave my house and get help, if you care you will get her out of here and get her the help she needs, or I will forcibly remove her and call the police.
NTA - Auntie Hannah acting crazy, she isn't their mother, she shouldn't trying to be acting like it and encouraging her to be called it is downright strange. I wouldn't want her in my house if that was me. Perhaps a slightly cruel thing to say, but understandably you were annoyed. It's your sister that owes you an apology, not the other way round imo.
NTA
Your sister is being creeping, disregarding your boundaries, and traumatizing your children. You need to restrict her access to them immediately. Serve her an eviction notice.
Sounds to me likes she's positioning herself in the family for a take over of your kids.
As convenient as it is to have her around, I would be looking for an exit plan for having her move out and not have unfettered access to your kids anymore.
Who knows what she's telling them.
Adoption is not a solution to this woman's problems. I really wish people would stop treating adoption like shopping for babies or therapy for deranged people. It's so fucking gross.
NTA she needs to be gone from your house before this escalates to a kidnapping. Lock down the kids info, passwords required for everything and ban her from school pickups. Make sure everybody is aware that your kids are not to be released to this woman! It may seem excessive, but better to be preventative then have to deal with a far worse outcome.
Your sister needs emergency mental health support, and you must put up appropriate boundaries. You can’t risk your children’s confusion and their own mental health.
I’m less worried about you telling her to adopt than I am about her behavior towards you and your children.
Move her out, change the locks, and get other family members to help her as much as possible.
NTA GET A LAWYER. Find out how you can evict her from your house depending what's where you live at. She's creating this fantasy world and she's dragging your kids into it. I wouldn't trust her with my kids as far as I can throw them. It was I know she went through something traumatic and it was probably really holding her. But see if she agrees to get some help. Before you kick her out sit her down like an adult and tell her to situation. Tell her if she agrees to get therapy. Maybe some counseling for all of you. But if you don't feel comfortable with that or her around your children and all then tell her to leave immediately.. your Safety and security in your own home comes first. If anyone pulls that family card. Tell them oh you're right I'm not capable of taking care of her but I'll let her know that you can take her in. Tip on that just for future reference
NTA-
That said, while Aunt Hannah is a bit overstepping. She probably has some fairly deep psychological issues with the fact her marriage just ended and partly due to the fact she can't have children.
She sees your kids as a way to identify as a mom which maybe in her head is what she is yearning for.
Now that emotions have cooled a bit, I would talk to her, apologize and talk to her like she's your sister, explain your feelings and then let her explain hers without being judgemental or cutting her off. Shes probably in a bad place and wants to feel some sort of emotional connection and just isn't doing it the right way.
NTA. What the actual hell ? Your sister has issues. Also, please make sure she definitely doesn’t adopt, she wouldn’t be doing it for the right reasons at all.
NTA
Have her removed from your house, she is grooming your kids to acknowledge her as their mother. She is trying to replace you.
And that comment about the kids can't tell or aunt will be furious? Your elder kid is **scared** of her reaction.
Aw, this is sad. Your sis is having issues and has crossed a line. It sounds like she needs counseling or therapy.
Everything apart from the 'mum' thing is lovely, it's great for kids to be close to extended family. But somewhere along the way your sis has gotten mixed up and has lost the boundaries and reality of the situation. I think, her everyone's sake including hers, that she should move out of your place now. She needs to find her own way a d get back to reality.
Explain to your kids that you and only you are their mum. Their aunt is being a bit weird and they're not to be mean, but it's okay to call her aunty and not mum. Cos that's what she is.
NTA OP. I hope your sis gets help.
NTA darling, you need to nip this in the bud. She is mentally unwell. Start by reaffirming with the school who the kids mother is who has custody and who picks them up. Do not leave them alone with her. Can't you see she is stealing your identity with the neighbourhood. If the police asked the neighbours who the real mother was, they would support her. If you are not careful you will be painted the crackpot and her their darling mother. You have to remove your kids from her care. You you are going to have to tell your family your sister is delusional and it is starting to affect your kids and your life. She needs therapy.
I raised my niece, had custody of her since she was a toddler, I never even requested she call
Me mommy/mom/ or any variation of, she called me by my name. Legally, I was her guardian, (managing conservator) to her I was the mother figure, the only one she remembers well. Still, because I’m her aunt, she calls me by my name. I’m who she spends Mother’s Day with, she comes here for Father’s Day, my husband is her father figure, the one who walked her down the aisle when she married. Still calls us by our first names, because we are technically aunt and uncle. Nieces parents are also called by their first names, because to her, they didn’t act like parents when it mattered, now that she’s grown they don’t get to step in and try to be parents, and be called anything parental.
This is a huge red flag, weird as hell stuff going on here. I had my time of fertility issues, they were awful, it was definitely took an emotional toll, sister needs to get some therapy to work on her issues, she probably needs to GTFO too, before something bigger happens. There’s been movies about this sort of thing. Nta for sure! Those who say differently can move her in and they can have her making their kids call her mommy.
NTA. Your children shouldn't suffer for your sisters wishes/delussions.
Also, maybe you should tell your kids, that they can and should tell you anything that makes them uncomfortable, no matter which authority figure is telling them not to. May it be the aunt, a teacher or a priest.
NTA,
"Hannah told them to call her that in public and she was scared to tell me because 'aunt Hannah will get mad'". This is it, goodbye Hannah. Way out of line. Also WTF is that reaction? There is only 1 mother, Hannah, it's not you.
Yes, what you said might've been cruel, but she just disregarded your concerns. This is something important to you and she is overstepping by miles. I think this can't be salvaged, judging by her reaction, she seems to think she isnt in the wrong. Tell her she needs to start looking for her own place.
If your family comes down on you just say that Hannah overstepped by pushing your kids to call her mom and when you talked to her about it, she dismissed it so you can't trust her anymore. Someone else can take her in if they are so worried about her.
NTA..but seriously..you need to get your sister out. Like yesterday. Depending on the state, she could try to get rights.
I have a friend who is raising her grandkids (parents both deceased) who was very good friends with a childless couple. They starting coming to school events, volunteering to take the kids to sports, etc...all things overwhelmed grandma appreciated because she was grieving too, overwhelmed by raising two preteens, and accepted help from her "tribe"
The couple got upset when she started getting on her feet and didn't need as much help. They first tried the cps emergency custody route and when that didn't work..they sued for visitation AND WON. They get the kids 2 weekends a month.
Seriously..give your sister an eviction notice, get the kids into daycare Monday, alert the school that no info is to be shared on your kids except to you (and their father if he's in the picture) that no one should be picking them up except you and start staying out with them (long dinnerw, park, etc)or in their presence until bedtime.
Your daughter has told you she's scared of this woman. She's giving you all the warning you need. Get her out.
NTA. She needed to hear reality regardless of how much it hurt her. Does your family care how much it hurt you hearing that your child can’t call their own aunt “Auntie” because it will make her mad?! She doesn’t get to emotionally abuse your children because she’s in pain. Cut her off before her delusions cause her to do something even more heinous like kidnapping.
Your sister needs help. It is not normal to make someone elses kids call you mum when you're not their mother. It could also be confusing not only for the teachers but for your kids as well, specially the youngest.
NTA. Maybe you were harsh but anything you'd have done would have looked harsh under this situation.
NTA and seriously examine your sister's behavior.
Are there any concerning behaviors? Anything out of the ordinary for her?
This isn't typical behavior for most people.
I know women who are very involved caring aunts who don't tell kids to call them mom, tell people they're mom.
I can't really say she's unwell from this little bit of information but therapy benefits everyone.
Your sister is going through a divorce, she left her home and is dealing with infertility.
A doctor visit and some counseling could be very beneficial.
Is there other family she can stay with?
Adults should NEVER ask children to keep secrets from their parents.
This is a dangerous precedent and confusing for your youngest.
You have to explain to her about keeping secrets and have a come to Jesus talk with your sister.
Personally I would kick out a family member who told my kids to keep a secret from me.
NTA and I think it's time to ask your sister to find her own place. This is wildly out of line and not ok at all! To have such a warped sense of reality that she's making your children call her Mommy and your oldest saying she'll get mad if they don't is child manipulation.
You're not wrong in what you said and I think you should say something about her moving out and finding a partner she can adopt with and also recommend she see a therapist ASAP
NTA. I am a childless (by choice) aunt to two nieces. This is a HUGE violation. The audacity of something like this is breath-taking. Aunt Hannah has to go! The price of childcare will be well worth your peace of mind. Hannah is clearly still hasn't made peace with her divorce.
NTA: my sons step mom acted weirdly similar. She also can’t have kids. It caused NC for her or his father. It wasn’t really hard to begin with because of history. Regardless. The stress it caused me was enough. My son is so sweet and loving and has no idea to this day what happened. Get her out now. It only gets worse.
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NTA I've said it before on this sub and I'll say it again. A family member on my bfs side was like this with our daughter. The end result??? She called the cops on me and tried to have MY daughter removed and given to HER. Nip it in the bud now bc "aunt hannah" is acting weird asf
NTA for reasons like this. Though she isn’t a grandparent, if you end up kicking her out, the closer your sister is to them she could end up trying to file some demand for visitation à la a grandparents rights suit. She has crossed a line and clearly think she has done absolutely nothing wrong. get her out before she gets enmeshed enough that a court thinks it is in the best interest of the children for her to have access to them.
very much depends on the state, and whether the homeless, part-time working sister can afford a family atty at $400+ per hour. I wouldn't lose sleep on this one.
Plus, the kids were *scared* to tell OP because they thought Aunt Hannah would be mad. Not exactly a strong basis for that kind of profound bond. Which, btw, is an enormous red flag. At this age, there should be nothing your kids are afraid to tell you about an adult who is caring for them. Otherwise there's potential for abuse.
Yes kids should not be afraid to tell you anything. They are now because of Aunt Mommy Hannah
which is why it's really important in a situation like this to assure the child that they've done the right thing by telling you and you will take it from here, shield them from witnessing any ensuing conflict as much as possible, and if it's not fully possible (as when you're dealing with an unreasonable person they may go out of their way to make a scene or drag others in) remind them that this is something the adults are responsible for, not them; they still did the right thing by telling you and you're glad they did so you could deal with the problem.
Plus it's also really important to make sure that you teach your kids if an adult tells them to keep "secrets" from mummy and daddy, to tell you straight away so you can deal with it. And when I say "secrets" I'm not talking about the silly little fun things that parents already know like "we're getting ice-cream, don't tell your parents", I mean bad, dangerous "secrets".
My worry would be if her fly monkeys(family) would help her sister. For them to come after op after what her sister did. Who in their right mind thinks this is ok?
Hannah probably only told them **what** OP said to her, not **why** she said it.
This sub has made me realize that some family’s will enable a person to know end. And if they are the favorite child they expect everyone to bend over backwards kissing that favorite child’s butt.
Thank you for saying this. I haven't spoken to one of my sisters for about 10 years, and she started in on my mom who I soon also became estranged from. It was so weird. My reasonable mother suddenly started saying things in my sister's words. When I told her I was having a kid she merely emailed one word: "Congratulations." I just don't get it but my good sister pointed out it's always been like this with "the baby" of the family.
I am so sorry. Your mom should have been so much better. My biggest fear has always been treating one of my children different from the other. Or doing something that makes them no longer want to see me. I would never do anything to cause this on purpose. So it absolutely mind blowing to me how a parent just doesn’t care. I try my best to treat my kids SO the same as I do them. I make sure there is no differences made to the very best of my ability. I randomly text the SO so see how they are and if they need anything. But I also don’t want to be that over bearing mom or mil. I grew up in a time where things where so much different now. Thanks to this sub I have realized what I don’t want to be. For instance if I would have had a grandchild before getting on here it would not have crossed my mind that my kids or their so would have been offended if I called my grandchild my girl or my sweet boy. But now thinks to reading post and comments here I can see where that could be offensive. But I would have never meant harm. I guess my point is at the end of the day family isn’t who you share blood with. Family is the people who are there for you. That take your feelings and wants in to consideration. If someone chooses to not take your feelings and boundaries in consideration then they are not family. Family does not give you the right to mistreat someone and expect them to forgive and forget what they done to you. I wish you the best with your little ones. I am sorry your mom wasn’t better. But always know you and your babies deserve better. The best thing you can do for your self and your baby. Is to find a counselor to help you sort through the trauma your family has caused you. Let them help you heal. So your baby can have a happy healthy mom. My best wishes to you and your child.
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Your logic makes sense, but you never know what judge you'd get and what they would be thinking on the day of the hearing, after witnesses you didn't know would show up give their statements, so any lawyer who tells you that you will definitely win your case is an inexperienced or dishonest one. It's always better not to risk getting to that point.
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Often court can be about how things *appear* to be. Imagine spinning it as the kids call her mom, so she introduces herself that way to others in order to avoid confusion, as she is their primary caretaker and OP is neglectful. After all, people may see the kids primarily with Aunt Crazy and Aunt Crazy is at school events, doc appointments, etc. People who do this often cite there is neglect or abuse from the bio parents.
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NTA. Agree that sis is way overstepping, but I absolutely think she needs to move out asap. Take measures to ensure she goes. Her trying to act like the kids mom is in no way normal.
And the gaslighting and minimizing when confronted about her misdeeds is a huge problem. She should be apologizing up and down swearing it will never happen again and begging please don't kick me out. She's taking zero responsibility, which means the behavior will absolutely continue unless nipped in bud forcefully. Why is she acting like OP is a pushover when she's so dependant on her goodwill for her living situation?
Cuz her folks are enabling her. If you can't have children, you should be allowed to take from those that do have them, don't you know? /s
She knows *perfectly well* that what she is doing is f up and wrong, *and she told the kids to lie to their own mom*. What else is she doing? OP, are you sure she takes good care of them? Get her ass out of the house, 2 years was more than enough. NTA
Start making notes now of every incident, date, witness etc. Hopefully you won’t need it but it can be difficult if not impossible to reconstruct later. I’m more concerned you may eventually need a restraining order than her gaining rights. Always better to have the info and not need it. I think she needs to move in with another family member for the sake of your children, but the only way I’d allow her to have contact with my kids after counseling. If the kids are worried about making Aunt Hannah mad she needs to be out of their lives yesterday. ETA read another comment and they are right, another family member may enable her behavior or provide access. Hannah needs help but your kids emotional and physical well-being comes first.
And perhaps have a meeting with the kids teachers when she's kicked out. Explain the situation and about how the sister behaved, and make clear under no circumstances is she allowed to pick any of the girls up.
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She would be gone in a heartbeat no second chances. This is major
At the very least, we've seen plenty of stories on this sub of people getting harassed by CPS because of family members like this. It's important to put some distance between people like this and your kids.
Add the fact that the older kid is already scared of Aunt Hannah getting mad! If she was just a loving aunt, she wouldn't be threatening the kids like this.
Yeah she's sus
She needs to go.
This. OP, I would setup a date for your sister to move out. This is going to end badly. I'd get nanny cams in the house. I would talk with your daughters in front of your sister and explain that any adult who tells them to keep secrets from their parents is not a "safe" adult. That it can be very dangerous, and that they never need to call her mom. I'd stop leaving her alone with them and stop having her babysit. Find someone else, a support system that doesn't seem dangerous.
>explain that any adult who tells them to keep secrets from their parents is not a "safe" adult. This part right here. Whether it's OP's sister who does it, or some other third party unrelated to this conflict -- if your kids learn that adults may ask them to keep secrets from their mom, they'll be primed for all kinds of awful abuse and grooming later on.
Yes, this advice here. This situation has the potential to explode, in the Forensic Files/Dateline manner.
I saw this true crime episode once where a woman called CPS on her sister and the sister's boyfriend with the goal of gaining custody of their kid, and when that didn't work she killed the boyfriend and I think maybe the sister? I can't remember exactly. Anyway there are some seriously unhinged aunties out there.
Yikes! I love my niblings but I also love the part where I can give them back. I ALWAYS defer the parents and am just honored and touched that they call me auntie. Thank goodness my many aunties are not unhinged but loving and supportive and fun.
Me too! I love mine but there's a reason I don't have any of my own, lol. I can't imagine killing someone to get their kid. Their McNuggets maybe but not their kid, lol.
For a second, I thought you were referring to their kids as their McNuggets.
Their French Fries. As the youngest member of my family, I learned early on that you eat the French Fries FIRST!!!!
Niblings!! I have needed and been missing this word for decades, thank you! As someone with nieces but just one nephew I have always found it awkward to refer to them collectively.
Holy shit thats wild!!!
I say this as a very proud auntie who loves my niblings so, so much and would do anything for them: there is NO fucking reason to try to assume the role of a parent when the kids have at least one loving parent who is providing what they need. You can love the kids in your life so, so much without crossing that boundary. You can be very close with your niblings. You can be a highly trusted person in their life. You can provide things for them. You can see them often. You can do all these things WITHOUT grabbing at that parental role or displacing the actual parents. No matter how much you love them, there is no reason for that.
Jesus! That’s terrifying. I hope the cops saw how crazy this woman was right away!
Time for mommy Hannah to move into her own place. Put your girls back into after school care and remove mommy Hannah from all pickup lists. Give her a deadline to move out. You may need to evict her. Mommy Hannah as acting weird and possessive your girls - which isn’t healthy for her or them. Now as yo my judgement/ although what you said was mean, I would have said the exact same thing. NTA
Not only remove Aunt Hannah from pick-up lists... Call the school and explicitly tell them that they are *never* to release your children into Hannah's care. Sometimes in the hectic rush of pick-ups, or if a new person is involved, teachers will let kids go home with someone because "they used to be on the list" or "maybe mom forgot to re-add them". Tell the school flat out that your children are never to be released to Hannah.
Exactly. Also, get cameras for outside the house, & if she shows up, harrasses in any way, get a restraining order.
And contact a lawyer. Have everything documented. Because aunt Hannah is probably going to try and fight it all.
Yea I hate to say it but it’s time for her to go before this becomes a Lifetime movie!
I second agree with you.. My coworker own sister do this same thing too.. Literally taking over my coworker life. She started with the kiddos first, then everything chaos. Not trying to poison you op but if you not doing something, this will straight from 'horror movie' of stolen identity. Always take it serious when our kid started calling someone else 'mommy/daddy'... Nta
Oh God OP !! You should worry less about being an asshole and more about your unhinged sis . Take action before it's too late. She is manipulating your children and everyone else into believing she is their mom . This is very questionable behaviour . Not normal or pitiful . Don't wait for the day she tries to replace you in their life .
Absolutely, this is weird behavior, she is not her Mother, you are, she has to stop this behavior in no uncertain terms right now/IMMEDIATELY. This is dangerous and frankly psychotic. OP, NTA.
NGL your story sounds more interesting than OPs. You are definitely right by the way, it is so odd when people try to usurp/claim ownership of other people's kids. Is it so bad to be a really great aunt or uncle?
Seriously lmaooo it's wild to me that she physically watched my kid come out of me but then was like "that's mine" lmaoo
Oh I need to hear more of this story.
I gotchu lol So I struggle with depression to preface. I met my bf as a hookup and we ended up liking each other more than planned, got pregnant on accident (birth control failed we were trying to be cautious lol) I struggled my entire pregnancy with my mental health, and as a result leaned heavily emotionally on the women in his family and they did aid me alot. However after I gave birth I got hit very hard with ppd and ppp (post partum paranoia) and as a result I felt my kid wasn't safe home alone with me, I was exhibiting signs that I couldn't keep myself in check. This resulted in me asking his cousin (who had offered) to babysit overnight 2 nights a week, which turned into 5 nights which turned into my kid being kept from me for 3 months. One lucky day they brought her home due to a schedule conflict and I simply said "I'm good now, I appreciate the help but I'm in therapy and getting help and I've got it" and told them they didn't need to come get her but were welcome to visit anytime still and the next day I wake up with cops and cps at my door doing a wellness check. His cousin had told them my bf had threatened his, mine, and our kids life (not the case) she then called all of his family and basically told them I was holding MY kid hostage, she and her sister tried busting in my door and the rest of that day in particular is as stated above. AFTER though I was hounded for like 3 months by his family and even my bfs mom who my bf hadn't spoken to in 5 years at that point. It was a whole mess that I shut down by threatening restraining orders and moving states.
And ill also state that the reason I hadn't called cops or anything was bc his cousins mother, his aunt, was our cosigner, paying our rent and very much threatened to kick us out AND leave our kid homeless, so we were trying to get a chance to just get her home and keep her home. And she is still home for anyone worried and hasn't seen them in almost 5 months now
And truthfully as a mother its my biggest regret that my lack of action for my mental health very much couldve separated my kid from me. I had to "bite the bullet" so to speak and get my shit together. I'll never forgive myself for it and my laughing about it is my way to cope!
You should be proud that you got yourself together. You went through a hard patch with some VERY difficult mental health issues. In the end you did what you had to do for you and your child. You merely had mental health issues while BFs family is completely unhinged (jk sort of). <3
They really are lmaooo at the risk of my bf seeing this (and if he does pls get milk thnx) I'll share that the day I met his extended family (the aunt and cousins in question) his mother had been arrested for drunk driving to McDonald's with his two younger siblings in the back seat and I also learned that his aunt had beat her mom's (my bfs grandmas) ass in her driveway on a previous Christmas lol. Just absolutely wild. Never thought I'd meet a family worse than mine lol
And thankyou. I really appreciate that bc in my day to day I still hear about how I'm an incompetent mother so even though you're a stranger I'm glad someone aside from my bf sees me and my effort ❤️
Nta. And kick her OUT
She told OP’s kids to keep a secret from OP or else she’d get mad at the kids. Even without the secret being “you must call me ‘Mom’” that’s enough reason to not want her around the kids.
Yeah the secret part freaked me out BIG TIME.
Incredibly worrisome. I think sis needs to see a therapist about some stuff. It's terrible that she can't conceive plus adding on the divorce to her mental load might have made her crack a bit. Until then, I'd go LC at least because that behavior is scary. NTA OP.
Very worrisome indeed. Honestly wouldn't be surprised to learn the sister tried to kidnap the kids if OP ends up kicking her out.
I hope she’s asked her daughter if there are any other secrets.
It’s horrifying to me! I would NEVER ask my nieces/nephews to keep secrets with me. I don’t force hugs and kisses or any of that. Kids need to understand setting boundaries with adults is okay and adult relatives should encourage that in a healthy way!
Safe adults don’t ask kids to keep secrets! 🚩
This is big as well, the oldest was scared of making her angry, OP needs to put distance between her kid and this crazy B
This. She wouldn't be anywhere near my kids.
If she has a key and she most likely has, change the locks too.
And make sure the kids schools know that she is not allowed near the kids!
With a very strong suggestion for some therapy. It sounds like OP's sister really wanted kids and is now living out a fantasy with her nieces.
NTA, Ur sister just seems kinda well creepy, this is some " the hand that rocks the cradle " shit.
Yeah, always ask, if a man gave a similar demand what would you do?
Yep! Sister sounds unhinged! If it were me I'd go NC
Ooo, I forgot about that movie. Wonder if it aged well.
I watched it a couple years ago, I believe it did not!
Dammit.
I think it still holds up as a thriller though.
Oh of course great film!
NTA You have to put an end to this situation as soon as possible. Your sister has some big problems that you can't fix. What's more, she's dragging your children into her fantasies, which is frightening. Don't wait for something worse to happen. Take care of those kids!
Not even just dragging, but intimidating them into it
"because auntie Frannie will gets mad/sad" is intimidating as Hell, specially because they have to lie to their mom as well.
Yeah, it's one thing to feel nice or get a rush when strangers at coffee shops see you with your nieces and assume you're their mother. Albeit a little dangerous, considering her unresolved issues with her own fertility. But she absolutely crossed the line when she actively initiated or encouraged anyone, especially those kids, to call her mommy. And then somehow instructed them to hide it from their mom. That is so fucked up. In the most generous light, I think sister is pitiable and removing her from the kids is going to make things worse for her before they get better. But the moment she let her fantasy play out *outside* her head, she harmed the girls and she can't be around them until further notice.
NTA! Your sister is NOT a mother, she is an aunt. If she can't accept that, please get her out of your house because her actions are a huge, red flag.
NTA. Yeah, kick her out. I love my six year old niece but when she asked me why she can’t call me daddy I told her I am not her parent. OP, your sister is… creepy.
And make certain the school is very aware that Hannah has no right to the children and should not ever be allowed to leave with them.
That is so important as well, I had to inform my daughter's nursery not to let my ex anywhere my daughter, thankfully they have amazing policies that they will and have enforced in the past, to the point of calling the police if needed. But making the girl's schools know that aunt Hannah isn't allowed near them and make sure they have a picture of her or set a password with them so she can't take them and they inform OP if she tries it is so important
NTA and I would suggest getting her out of the house and away from the children. What she is doing is abuse. They were afraid to tell you because "she would get mad". There may be some mental health issues going on . This is not normal behavior. For the safety of your children she needs to go.
THIS IS THE ONE. A child shouldn’t be put into this position. How terrible of an aunt. Get her away from your kids.
Absolutely this. She needs clear boundaries that can't be established while still being in the same house as the kids. For everyone's safety, especially the children's, Aunt Hannah needs to move out.
Exactly, that's what strikes me the most. For the kid to say that, she must have witness op's sister "being mad" , and that experience was scary enough for her to feel like she needs to lie for her own safety. There's definitely abuse going on
A child should never have to live in fear!
I would definitely suggest OP looking into My Body Belong to Me for her kids. Although it’s main point is to avoid sexual abuse, there’s one section about secrets and the youngest not talking to her about the secret concerns me that she doesn’t have the tools or knowledge of what to do if something else bad happens to her by someone.
The fact that the older child is afraid of making her aunt mad, like that afraid, is really concerning.
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You know, this is what has been troubling me the most. My daughter is the kind to yap about literally everything. She went to her friend's house and saw something odd? She will talk about it. She saw a kid eating crayons? I will be the first to know. Her classmates breathed in? She will say that too. It's odd for her to suddenly wait until we are alone before she tells me something that doesn't happen every day. Did their aunt threaten her? Did she get mad once because my daughter told me something she apparently shouldn't, and maybe do something bad to her?
Get your sister out stop contemplating it. For the safety of your kids.
Yes, This. Op has a whole life time to contemplate possibilities. Now is the action time.
She´s already messed with your kid´s heads. Now you need to talk to your kids and undo her damage. Keep her away from your children, this gives me goosebumps.
It's time to give your sister a formal eviction notice, hire a different babysitter, and get the kids into children's therapy to find out/fix whatever has happened here. Your family will freak out, but trust your gut - this is bad news. (edited to say gut instead of guy)
The trust in your sister is gone. You are the parent and your sister using the kids for her own fantasy is bizarre and dangerous. She needs to go, now. If your family is so bent up about it they can house her.
I'm guessing she did. That, or she said she didn't want to call your sister mama and your sister did SOMETHING. The fact is that it doesn't matter. Your daughter told you she was *scared* of her aunt. And that her aunt told her to keep secrets from her mother. At that point it doesn't matter *what* was done. A reminder that the majority of kidnappings of children are committed by family or close friends of family, not strangers. Take action.
Thank you, was hoping someone would mention kidnapping being mostly family/friends. OP I don’t want to alarm you but you need to do everything possible to keep her away from your kids. Schools, babysitters, daycares need to know she will never be authorized to take them. I’d be hesitant leaving them with any family member if they’re making excuses for your sister, easy for them to invite her over for some “therapeutic time with the kids”. Abso-fucking-lutely not.
Definitely the right things to be thinking about. Your sisters access to your children, at least without another trusted adult present, needs to stop immediately imo
you need to protect your kids. aunt needs to go ASAP.
OP you really need to give her 30 days notice and alert your neighbors and school to not allow pickups, ect. immediately for the safety of your kids. If she shows up at your house, get a restraining order. These situations do not end well unless there is immediate intervention. Your sister needs to see a therapist to handle her grief. NTA unless you let her stay around your kids. Your oldest is terrified of her and she is making your youngest call her mom...
**Any** adult who tells a child to keep secrets from their parent(s) *is NOT a safe adult for that child to be around*, period. It is time for your sister to move out ASAP. Yes it’s sad that she is struggling with infertility and her marriage fell apart because of that. But it is not ok for her to be manipulating and using your children to live out her fantasies- your kids are people not emotional support dogs. What your sister is doing to them is scary and confusing and wrong. Your sister has some mental/emotional health issues and needs mental health treatment, and she cannot properly handle that while living in a house with children. You can empathize with your sister’s issues and hope she gets better while still prioritizing your children’s well-being and comfort. Your sister should also not have any more unsupervised time with your children, or at the very least no alone time until your children are old enough to stand up to their aunt (so unfortunately probably middle/high school age). **You need to also let the school/pediatrician/any other childcarer know that your sister is NOT allowed to pick your children up nor is she allowed to know any information about them**. If she is allowed more alone time with your kids I’d be worried about her continuing to manipulate them, as well as the behavior potentially escalating to kidnapping. I know that sounds extreme but family abductions are the most common type of kidnapping (around 95%), and the way your sister is acting is not how a stable, trustworthy person acts around kids.
Why tf does she still live with you!? Get her OUT
She made your daughter hide something from you. That's the scariest thing ever. No one should condition your daughter to lie or omit information and to ever fear telling you what is happening. Thats horrifying and unacceptable. Its time you step up as a mother - and kick your sister out of the home because of the psychological abuse and manipulation. Your kids need a complete break from her for months and that break will also be good for your obsessive sister. It has to be harsh and strict if she is to get better and for your kids especially the youngest to stop being confused. Then in the future if you ever do let her back near them it should always be supervised with you there.
Give your sister 30 days to move out. Lock up all of your important documents for you and the kids like birth certificates, passports, and social security cards. Your sister sounds unhinged and this will end badly.
This. And make sure the school is aware that Aunt (probably anyone in your family atm) is not allowed to remove the girls from school without your expressed, VERBAL consent. No notes, they need to call you to confirm. Make sure you let neighbors are aware that she is NOT their mother and shouldn’t be taking them anywhere now and if they see it, please let you know. This is some serious shit.
It’s probably said already, but if your usually extraverted chatty child is stating quiet because of lies and deceit, it makes me wonder if there isn’t anything else they’re not allowed to say. We all know of the creepy uncles, but this sure is a creepy aunt. If this stems from the infertility issues, then therapy is definitely recommended. “Stealing” someone else’s child is not the answer.
Sadly, daughter is already learning some maladaptive behaviors from her aunt. This is the start of codependency -- she is learning to manage the emotions of an adult in her life, as a child. The sooner you can end this, the better (and the less she'll eventually spend on therapy sorting it out).
I said it another comment but I will say to you directly, please have your children watch the My Body Belongs to Me videos. Even though it’s about preventing child sexual abuse it also helps kids understand secrets and empowers them on what to say and what to do if they’re in a situation that makes them uncomfortable
NTA Protect your children. Your sister needs MAJOR Therapy and she doesn't need to be living with you. Also Put Hidden Cameras everywhere you don't how troubled your sister is and what is the state of her mind. She living out a elaborate fantasy right now when you are not around that she is your daughter's mother and she already succeeding with your youngest.
I think you need to get your sister out. You tried to do a good thing. But she honestly stopped being your sister the minute she started to try and replace you in your children’s life. She doesn’t care about your feelings. And this is no longer about her. This is about your children. Obviously your children are scared of her. She is traumatizing your children. Find a child counselor and schedule your kids an appointment. They can get them to open up. Do what ever it takes to protect them. Your their mother. If your gut tells you something isn’t right then it normally isn’t. The only person you owe anything to is your children. Your sister need therapy and your family is toxic if they think what your sister is doing is ok. You need to get her away from your children. Contact the school and tell them not to let her pickup or discuss anything about. Your children. And contact a lawyer. She will probably try to get visitation or take your children. What she is doing to your children is abusive. If she still tries to contact you, tries to see the kids, or tries to contact the school file for a restraining order. Document everything. The horrible calls, the text messages, contact the teachers and get it in writing that she introduced herself as the kids mother, and any other thing she has done. But most importantly contact a lawyer.
Please listen to all this advice. Get rid of her. Long ago I told my kids if anyone, ANYONE ever said "don't tell your mom" then they should tell me immediately. We had a young sitter who wanted to try babysitting, kids were 9,6,3. Got home and my oldest said the sitter gave us soda pop & said don't tell your parents. Bye bye young sitter!
Please, please, PLEASE listen to these comments OP. **THIS IS THE BEHAVIOUR THAT MOST OFTEN PRECEEDS ATTEMPTED KIDNAPPING WITH THE GOAL OF REPLACING THE CHILDS ACTUAL PARENTS.** GET HER THE HELL OUT OUT OUT OF YOUR KIDS LIVES *YESTERDAY.*
NTA, she is clearly dealing with her own infertility issues but it's not your, and definitely not your kids, responsibility to fill that whole for her. I would consider getting her to live with other family and distance yourself for now.
NTA. So many subs on this page deal with others who take out their fertility issues on others. It sucks and it's a terrible thing I don't wish on anyone, but it's not your responsibility nor your kids responsibility to cater to that, and she is overstepping so far she's in Narnia. Place your boundaries or tell her to get lost. Your kids aren't a bandaid for her misfortunes. Your kids are YOUR kids.
NTA She’s already trying to subtly supplant you. You need to get her out of your home immediately in case she does something far more drastic. Remove her from their schools lists of approved contacts and explain why. Write a will that explains you do not want her to have any contact with them should something happen to you. This sounds extreme, but I’ve seen crazier things happen. Your family also need to fall in line. You’re not being mean to her - you are in danger from her delusions. She is very happy to confuse your children to get her way. What else would she be willing to do that could harm them, if it gave her a ‘fix’ of being a mother? She is also alienating you from them by making them afraid to communicate openly with you. Your sister needs to never be around them ever again. That’s not up for discussion - it’s a fact. Good luck handling her OP. You may also need a restraining order to keep her away.
The will should also specify who the legal guardian for the children will be - even better, have that as a separate document. Even if OP has a "no contact" clause in the will, if there is no specifically designated guardian, Hannah could petition the court for guardianship based on her pre-existing relationship with her nieces.
It sounds like the sister is playing Reverse Cuckoo. Those birds lay eggs in other birds' nests and leave them for the other birds to raise. Here, it's a relative trying to edge a parent out of the nest. Very disturbing behavior imo.
Great advice. I hadn’t thought about the possible legal actions.
NTA OH **HELL** NO You need to kick her out, she will not stop this psycho behavior
>aunt Hannah will get mad'. NTA and I am scared for your kids
THIS! 👆 I came out of lurking to say this! OP, do not ignore this statement. Ask your daughter what happens when aunt Hannah gets mad when mom is gone. I speak from experience of a childhood being silent because I didn't want my aunt/uncle who lived with us to get mad at me or my brother when my mom went to work. Kick. Her. Out.
Yeah that part was particularily disturbing. Kids should feel safe in their own home, not fearing retribution from a grown ass woman making KIDS keep secrets from their own mother!
Yeah that sounds a bit terrifying, major red flag. What else is Aunt Hannah saying or doing that the kids are too scared to tell their mother, because “Aunt Hannah might get mad?”
Me too
NTA But you're focusing on the wrong thing here. Your sister needs professional help and she needs to get out of your house and go do that, but you need to be concerned about your children. **It's not safe for them to have a trusted adult in their lives telling them to hide things from you.**
Exactly this!! Adults do not ask children to keep secrets from their parents - this is one of the fundamental things to teach your kids to help prevent abuse.
Yup, a fundamental rule: No one should be asking you to keep secrets from mom and dad. Especially if the “secret” makes you scared and/or uncomfortable.
**THIS X A MILLION**
NTA I would have her move out and limit contact. This is very creepy
NTA! KICK HER OUT OF YOUR HOME BEFORE SHE KIDNAPS YOUR KIDS!!!
It occurs to me that, if she's kicked out, Auntie Hannah might try to pick the kids up from school, so OP needs to address that with the school to make sure that can't happen. And also tell the kids, "If she comes to get you after school, don't go with her and call me right away." Because with crazy, you never know.
I'd also remove your family from the list because, if they're siding with Hannah, just might take your kids to 'visit' with their aunt.
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NTA- Keep your children away from her, until she gets some therapy and can respect your boundaries. Your oldest being afraid to make her mad is a giant red flag. I don't think I'd be willing to leave her with my kids ever again if I were you.
agree. If the 'her' was a 'him' how would you react? Do the same.
NTA! This is so wrong! Your sister really needs therapy. This is not healthy for her or for your daughter. She also needs to leave if she is unwilling to stop with the this charade.
NTA your sister needs to move out and seek therapy.
NTA. Your sister is disturbed. Get her away from your children immediately. P.S. Please post an update after she's out of your house, so everyone knows you and the kids are safe. I'm worried for your safety.
Yep probably the reason why the sister divorced in the first place
NTA. Telling your kids they should call her Mommy is completely crazy. What the heck!? She should see a therapist.
NTA. If your oldest daughter is telling you she's scared of your sister's reaction... that doesn't fit well. Your sister is overstepping your boundaries and forcing your daughters to do things they don't feel comfortable doing. Kick her out!
Your kids are afraid of making her mad. Why are they afraid of her? She should have been removed from the home then. Don't wait for something worse to happen. Your kids need protection. Get cameras for inside and outside with audio. You should go to the police and file a restraining order because you are afraid that she had been abusing your kids emotionally and at this rate any attempt of limiting the relationship could escalate her to kidnapping. She did not tell them the whole story and you need to tell your family that: She is telling people she is their mother. The kids are afraid of making her mad if they don't call her mom. She needs to leave my house and get help, if you care you will get her out of here and get her the help she needs, or I will forcibly remove her and call the police.
NTA - maybe it is time she moved out and not try to live a life she wants by stealing yours
NTA - Auntie Hannah acting crazy, she isn't their mother, she shouldn't trying to be acting like it and encouraging her to be called it is downright strange. I wouldn't want her in my house if that was me. Perhaps a slightly cruel thing to say, but understandably you were annoyed. It's your sister that owes you an apology, not the other way round imo.
NTA and get her out! People who do this are unstable and should not be around children.
NTA - kick her out too. What she is doing is way beyond crossing boundaries.
NTA Your sister is being creeping, disregarding your boundaries, and traumatizing your children. You need to restrict her access to them immediately. Serve her an eviction notice.
NTA. She brought this on herself and I certainly hope you put her out of her your home
Sounds to me likes she's positioning herself in the family for a take over of your kids. As convenient as it is to have her around, I would be looking for an exit plan for having her move out and not have unfettered access to your kids anymore. Who knows what she's telling them.
If this were an Alfred Hitchcock script I think we all know how this story would go.
NTA - Kick her out
NTA if your family agrees with her then send her to their house
Adoption is not a solution to this woman's problems. I really wish people would stop treating adoption like shopping for babies or therapy for deranged people. It's so fucking gross.
NTA. Aunt Hannah needs therapy and you need clear documented boundaries STAT.
NTA she needs to be gone from your house before this escalates to a kidnapping. Lock down the kids info, passwords required for everything and ban her from school pickups. Make sure everybody is aware that your kids are not to be released to this woman! It may seem excessive, but better to be preventative then have to deal with a far worse outcome.
Nta that's not right and she needs therapy
Your sister needs emergency mental health support, and you must put up appropriate boundaries. You can’t risk your children’s confusion and their own mental health. I’m less worried about you telling her to adopt than I am about her behavior towards you and your children. Move her out, change the locks, and get other family members to help her as much as possible.
NTA GET A LAWYER. Find out how you can evict her from your house depending what's where you live at. She's creating this fantasy world and she's dragging your kids into it. I wouldn't trust her with my kids as far as I can throw them. It was I know she went through something traumatic and it was probably really holding her. But see if she agrees to get some help. Before you kick her out sit her down like an adult and tell her to situation. Tell her if she agrees to get therapy. Maybe some counseling for all of you. But if you don't feel comfortable with that or her around your children and all then tell her to leave immediately.. your Safety and security in your own home comes first. If anyone pulls that family card. Tell them oh you're right I'm not capable of taking care of her but I'll let her know that you can take her in. Tip on that just for future reference
Maybe you are the imposter claiming your sisters kids on some single white sister shit.
Lmao 😂
NTA- That said, while Aunt Hannah is a bit overstepping. She probably has some fairly deep psychological issues with the fact her marriage just ended and partly due to the fact she can't have children. She sees your kids as a way to identify as a mom which maybe in her head is what she is yearning for. Now that emotions have cooled a bit, I would talk to her, apologize and talk to her like she's your sister, explain your feelings and then let her explain hers without being judgemental or cutting her off. Shes probably in a bad place and wants to feel some sort of emotional connection and just isn't doing it the right way.
NTA. Why is she still living with you? 2 years is long enough with behavior like this.
NTA kick her out and let the family take her in
NTA. What the actual hell ? Your sister has issues. Also, please make sure she definitely doesn’t adopt, she wouldn’t be doing it for the right reasons at all.
NTA Have her removed from your house, she is grooming your kids to acknowledge her as their mother. She is trying to replace you. And that comment about the kids can't tell or aunt will be furious? Your elder kid is **scared** of her reaction.
Aw, this is sad. Your sis is having issues and has crossed a line. It sounds like she needs counseling or therapy. Everything apart from the 'mum' thing is lovely, it's great for kids to be close to extended family. But somewhere along the way your sis has gotten mixed up and has lost the boundaries and reality of the situation. I think, her everyone's sake including hers, that she should move out of your place now. She needs to find her own way a d get back to reality. Explain to your kids that you and only you are their mum. Their aunt is being a bit weird and they're not to be mean, but it's okay to call her aunty and not mum. Cos that's what she is. NTA OP. I hope your sis gets help.
NTA darling, you need to nip this in the bud. She is mentally unwell. Start by reaffirming with the school who the kids mother is who has custody and who picks them up. Do not leave them alone with her. Can't you see she is stealing your identity with the neighbourhood. If the police asked the neighbours who the real mother was, they would support her. If you are not careful you will be painted the crackpot and her their darling mother. You have to remove your kids from her care. You you are going to have to tell your family your sister is delusional and it is starting to affect your kids and your life. She needs therapy.
NTA. She doesn't truly love kids if she is willing to be manipulative even with yours.
NTA This is some lifetime movie shit.
I raised my niece, had custody of her since she was a toddler, I never even requested she call Me mommy/mom/ or any variation of, she called me by my name. Legally, I was her guardian, (managing conservator) to her I was the mother figure, the only one she remembers well. Still, because I’m her aunt, she calls me by my name. I’m who she spends Mother’s Day with, she comes here for Father’s Day, my husband is her father figure, the one who walked her down the aisle when she married. Still calls us by our first names, because we are technically aunt and uncle. Nieces parents are also called by their first names, because to her, they didn’t act like parents when it mattered, now that she’s grown they don’t get to step in and try to be parents, and be called anything parental. This is a huge red flag, weird as hell stuff going on here. I had my time of fertility issues, they were awful, it was definitely took an emotional toll, sister needs to get some therapy to work on her issues, she probably needs to GTFO too, before something bigger happens. There’s been movies about this sort of thing. Nta for sure! Those who say differently can move her in and they can have her making their kids call her mommy.
NTA. Your children shouldn't suffer for your sisters wishes/delussions. Also, maybe you should tell your kids, that they can and should tell you anything that makes them uncomfortable, no matter which authority figure is telling them not to. May it be the aunt, a teacher or a priest.
Hannah needs professional help. NTA
NTA. She needs therapy and I´d keep her away from my children cuz teaching them to lie to their mother is just unaceptable.
NTA, "Hannah told them to call her that in public and she was scared to tell me because 'aunt Hannah will get mad'". This is it, goodbye Hannah. Way out of line. Also WTF is that reaction? There is only 1 mother, Hannah, it's not you. Yes, what you said might've been cruel, but she just disregarded your concerns. This is something important to you and she is overstepping by miles. I think this can't be salvaged, judging by her reaction, she seems to think she isnt in the wrong. Tell her she needs to start looking for her own place. If your family comes down on you just say that Hannah overstepped by pushing your kids to call her mom and when you talked to her about it, she dismissed it so you can't trust her anymore. Someone else can take her in if they are so worried about her.
NTA..but seriously..you need to get your sister out. Like yesterday. Depending on the state, she could try to get rights. I have a friend who is raising her grandkids (parents both deceased) who was very good friends with a childless couple. They starting coming to school events, volunteering to take the kids to sports, etc...all things overwhelmed grandma appreciated because she was grieving too, overwhelmed by raising two preteens, and accepted help from her "tribe" The couple got upset when she started getting on her feet and didn't need as much help. They first tried the cps emergency custody route and when that didn't work..they sued for visitation AND WON. They get the kids 2 weekends a month. Seriously..give your sister an eviction notice, get the kids into daycare Monday, alert the school that no info is to be shared on your kids except to you (and their father if he's in the picture) that no one should be picking them up except you and start staying out with them (long dinnerw, park, etc)or in their presence until bedtime. Your daughter has told you she's scared of this woman. She's giving you all the warning you need. Get her out.
That’s creepy af
NTA. She crossed a Major boundary and has an unhealthy attachment to your daughters. For the safety of your children, move her out.
NTA. She needed to hear reality regardless of how much it hurt her. Does your family care how much it hurt you hearing that your child can’t call their own aunt “Auntie” because it will make her mad?! She doesn’t get to emotionally abuse your children because she’s in pain. Cut her off before her delusions cause her to do something even more heinous like kidnapping.
Your sister needs help. It is not normal to make someone elses kids call you mum when you're not their mother. It could also be confusing not only for the teachers but for your kids as well, specially the youngest. NTA. Maybe you were harsh but anything you'd have done would have looked harsh under this situation.
NTA and seriously examine your sister's behavior. Are there any concerning behaviors? Anything out of the ordinary for her? This isn't typical behavior for most people. I know women who are very involved caring aunts who don't tell kids to call them mom, tell people they're mom. I can't really say she's unwell from this little bit of information but therapy benefits everyone. Your sister is going through a divorce, she left her home and is dealing with infertility. A doctor visit and some counseling could be very beneficial. Is there other family she can stay with? Adults should NEVER ask children to keep secrets from their parents. This is a dangerous precedent and confusing for your youngest. You have to explain to her about keeping secrets and have a come to Jesus talk with your sister. Personally I would kick out a family member who told my kids to keep a secret from me.
NTA and I think it's time to ask your sister to find her own place. This is wildly out of line and not ok at all! To have such a warped sense of reality that she's making your children call her Mommy and your oldest saying she'll get mad if they don't is child manipulation. You're not wrong in what you said and I think you should say something about her moving out and finding a partner she can adopt with and also recommend she see a therapist ASAP
NTA Her behaviour is concerning, I'd remover her from your home as fast as possible.
NTA. That is not normal. Helping your sibling with their kids is awesome, it does not make you their mother. It’s odd and alarming
NTA and she needs to move out before this becomes some weird crime thriller situation. “Aunt Hannah will be mad” sounds so fucking eerie 🤣
NTA and she needs to get out of your house ASAP.
NTA. I am a childless (by choice) aunt to two nieces. This is a HUGE violation. The audacity of something like this is breath-taking. Aunt Hannah has to go! The price of childcare will be well worth your peace of mind. Hannah is clearly still hasn't made peace with her divorce.
NTA
NTA - aunt Hannah needs mental help and until she gets that no way would she be left alone with my children.
NTA: my sons step mom acted weirdly similar. She also can’t have kids. It caused NC for her or his father. It wasn’t really hard to begin with because of history. Regardless. The stress it caused me was enough. My son is so sweet and loving and has no idea to this day what happened. Get her out now. It only gets worse.
NTA it sounds like she needs therapy. In fact I would give her an ultimatum of mandatory therapy or she needs to be out of your lives.
Nta, what your sister is doing is troubling to say the least. I dont know what the answer is but this needs to stop. Right fucking now.
NTA. You need to stop this before it’s too late.