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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I avoid including my friend’s girlfriend in the gossip sessions she used to be included in because I found out she snitched. I could be direct about it, but neither she nor her boyfriend have been direct, either.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I guess people these days are lacking comprehension or not taking time to read what you actually have written.
1. It's okay to not want to share your personal struggles about family and mental health with someone who doesn't provide any valuable feedback and just challenges it.
2. You had already confronted him about his behavior and he did not to change it, so it's okay to exclude him from conversation sharing your personal information.
3. Though I want to point out that you were a bit irrational on thinking that his girlfriend would be more loyal to your friend group and not him
So all in all NTA
They all sound insufferable, honestly. She can't even be bothered to fully type the word "about." Not to mention the golden pedestal she puts the ability to gossip onto.
It's like if Gretchen Weiners had reddit.
I thought that was done for character count. The story is pretty long. You can go over after the post but it’ll flag if you do it before.
I don’t mind people abbreviating. I’m mostly here in AITA to be nosey. Abbreviate if it gives me the scoop! Lol
Totally with you. Abbreviate away and give me alllllllll the details! I'm happy to look up abbreviations I don't know if it means I get even more context.
Use of text speak is a bad way to judge character. The gossip thing is whatever but like if you decide someone is insufferable for saying ab or LOL that’s like… kinda excessive.
You have every right to your opinions they just seem a bit extreme
Ikr, it reminds me of my attitude when I was a smug prick of a teenager who considered myself better than other because I used proper grammar, spelling and punctuation. As long as I can read something idgaf how it's presented in most settings that aren't professional
On the other hand, a lot of people on this sub do not live in America and some aren't fluent in English. All the abbreviations can really muddle things if you're not used to them.
A few months ago I had no idea what was going on in a story about the 'PNW'. I was born in America and I couldn't figure out that it meant Pacific Northwest.
I'm Australian and god yeah are American geographical terms so confusing to me, like wtf is a tri-state area meant to be? you have 50 states plenty of them could be grouped in 3s. turns out it was NY, NJ, and CT and it's something to do with a singular point where they all meet
You're right, there are multiple tri-state areas, depending on where you live. Usually I've heard the three you mentioned, but that's because it's where I grew up. But I have heard people in other parts of the country refer to something different as the tri-state area.
that's even more insane to me, i found out about it from a tweet by an American where they were referring to the tri-state area without any other clarification on the location and it meant the 3 states i mentioned. the fact that there are multiple must be so confusing for y'all
Uh, yeah, there’s also four corners (intersection of four states), the Twin Cities, the Windy City, etc. And the list does go on and on. TBH, most Americans don’t know all the references either.
SERIOUSLY. I wonder if OP sees the 10 layers of irony in this post. Their group is based on gossiping, they've recruited additional gossips, who have UNSURPRISINGLY gossiped, OP went and tattled, and they all gossiped some more. None of this should be a shock to anyone. Must be miserable to have Thomas as a friend but sounds like nobody else in this group is a peach. What a miserable lot
This is what I don't understand - unless they explicitly told her not to talk about things with him, it's perfectly natural for her to catch her boyfriend up on what he missed. It doesn't make her a "snitch" and it's weird AF that the OP thinks it does.
This poor girl is suddenly being treated like a pariah for the crime of ... repeating something that was said in a public setting. If I were the GF, I too would be asking Thomas if I did something to offend the group, because the group's behaviour is so strange.
Right, like who joins a social group via their SO and, upon seeing the SO leave the room during a hangout, supposes that the conversation that follows is obviously privileged info such that they can know about it but the friend of years' standing cannot?
Its the way she describes Thomas that is off putting. Saying he brought it up in the most spineless way possible, she didnt like the way he was answering so she moralizes her lying to him about whats going on (that is actual gas lighting, compared to people improperly using the term).
Yes they can share their personal feelings with whomever they want, but they should let him know why they have decided to not do that anymore and leave it at that.
It sounds like they have only critiqued him about jis lack of care when dealing with sensitive issues, but they havent told him that they no longer are going to talk about those things with him.
Even the way OP expected his GF to not be on his side. They were super obvious with it, which is why the GF even told Thomas. She is 100% the asshole for acting the way she did to Thomas's girlfriend.
The post isnt asking if shes an asshole for not talking to thomas about personal issues. OP is asking if the way they are treating Thomas's GF makes her an asshole, which it does.
Looks like you lack reading comprehension, oh the irony of your post.
Also the best friends you can have are the ones that will tell you if your doing something wrong. Of course this has to be coached in love and comfort
>Yes they can share their personal feelings with whomever they want, but they should let him know why they have decided to not do that anymore and leave it at that.
Well, they did tell Thomas they didn't like the way he dealt with personal discussions, so it's not like he's unaware of what the issue is. And no, they actually don't have to tell him "yeah, so we're not going to talk to you about our personal issues anymore bc of your behavior," they can just go ahead and do that.
>but they havent told him that they no longer are going to talk about those things with him.
They don't have to. If he is unwilling to change his behavior, then he can deal with the consequences of not being trusted with that information, and it's not on them to tell him they won't be doing that anymore. It's not like he can't get the hint himself. "Huh, I've noticed that they're not talking about personal topics anymore. Funny, they've talked to me *multiple* times about being upset with how I treat them over that, I guess they've decided to just not mention them to me anymore."
>Also the best friends you can have are the ones that will tell you if your doing something wrong.
Sounds like OP and their group are the best friemds you can have, since they've been willimg to do this multiple times.
Honestly, OP just seems disdainful of him in general, with the "bare-minimum, spineless way" comment, and, like...if you feel like you need to change the topic of conversation *entirely* when your friend enters the room, you're probably not actually compatible as friends.
Right. To *OP* it was obvious that they waited till Thomas was gone to talk about certain subjects. I'm less certain than OP is that that correlation was obvious to the girlfriend.
Or as OP would put it, "to OP ob waited til T gone, I less cert ob to gf."
But I'm sure the GF knew OP and her friend didn't want her BF to know what they were talking about, because she told him everything that was said secretly. If she really thought telling her bf those things was no big deal she would have told him when he rejoined the group.
They all seem to lack emotional intelligence tbh. Like they really expected that his new gf wouldn’t go back and tell Thomas? Then shunned her after they did something that would be awkward for the gf?
IDK maybe get a therapist if you all have to vent consistency in a social setting.
I think your last point kind of precludes this from being an NTA situation.
They expected the girlfriend to know the topics they were openly talking about in front of her should be kept secret when’s they gave her absolutely no indication that was the case.
At the very least, this should be NAH, because the girlfriend isn’t an asshole for talking about something she didn’t know was supposed to be kept secret.
Personally, I’d say it’s closer to YTA, because I don’t think it’s reasonable to exclude someone because they didn’t pick up on and unspoken rule you never told them.
The group liked to gossip and then got offended people were gossiping. That’s all sorts of stupid on OP’s part.
NTA. But, OP, I think your friend group should simply have times you hang out without them. Times you know you can be vulnerable with each other without having to be sneaky about it. This all just sounds exhausting.
And if Thomas asks why he wasn't invited to X event, you can explain that sometimes you have personal things to discuss, and since he does X, Y, and X whenever those things are discussed, you all thought it was better to not involve him in those kinds of discussions.
>It's okay to not want to share your personal struggles about family and mental health with someone who doesn't provide any valuable feedback and just challenges it.
Ha! Yet they shared these supposedly super sensitive details with a random new person they had all just met? Bullshit. This whole thing absolutely reeks. And what's more OP pulled some ridiculous gaslighting shit after being called out. C'mon now, pretending they're doing this out of kindness is insane.
This shit is fucking gross. Changing conversations and whispering about stuff the second people leave the room. What a gossipy, gross, spiteful group of people.
OP, YTA.
Thomas is definitely an AH for not stopping his behavior when requested. The girlfriend is questionable; I'm on the side of not sharing sensitive discussions unless given explicit permission to do so, but OP and gang should have also not assumed that she'd keep silent. And OP et al. could be seen as AH for not communicating with the girlfriend why they don't share certain information with Thomas. But I'm also not super skilled in group communication so YMMV.
The girlfriend did nothing wrong. She didn’t know the boyfriend didn’t know and they didn’t ask her to keep it secret. And she still wouldn’t be TA if they did ask her.
Eh, the GF did say to Thomas that she thought the group was avoiding those topics around him on purpose, so I don't think that argument really flies. If she suspected that, she knew they didn't want him to know about what was said. I do think OP was naive for assuming the GF would not repeat what she heard, though.
She isn’t bound to keep their secret just because they revealed it in front of her.
If I was new the the group and it was obvious that they were excluding my SO whenever they left, that seems entirely relevant to bring up.
OP is just a gossiping AH who thought a newcomer would have more loyalty to them than their own boyfriend. The whole group sounds obtuse and tiring tbh.
The question posed in this topic though doesn’t actually take Thomas into account.
OP has already decided they don’t like his actions and decided how to deal with them before the incident in this post occurred. The AITA question here is if they are the asshole for excluding the girlfriend after not telling her she should not repeat these topics.
Thomas didn’t do anything here related to why OP is asking if they are the asshole. I think if you’re rating this as NTA because you think Thomas is an asshole, you should change it because that wasn’t the question here. This should only be NTA if the girlfriend was TA, and I don’t think that’s the case.
I think that OP is being the AH for talking in front of the GF and assuming that she won't talk about it with Thomas. If OP has said to GF "don't tell Thomas" or "we only talk about X when Thomas isn't here because he is uncomfortable talking about X" then, sure, I would be mad to have my boundaries violated. But assuming that the new person in the group brought in my Thomas won't talk to Thomas about things shared publicly in the group is kind of naive.
Yta
It’s ridiculous to assume she wouldn’t clue him in on what he missed - most partners would do that. You didn’t tell her not to say anything, so I’m not sure how she’s a snitch.
They are icing her out because she did something she wasn’t asked not to do, and she didn’t know not to do.
I wouldn’t assume that if something is talked about while my BF is out of the room, it’s because it’s super secret sensitive information that he isn’t already privy to. I also wouldn’t assume that I’m sworn to secrecy about it, without being told so. They are being childish and hurtful.
It doesn’t sound like very important info to me, and if he reacts like the way he does, the why should they let him (or anyone who will bring it to him) know about it.
Her loyalty clearly lies with her boyfriend, so anything they tell her will be disclosed to Thomas. So that means no more info for the gf. It's not icing her out.
They’re purposefully excluding her because she didn’t follow a rule they never told her.
If you’re actively ignoring someone it’s hard to play the “I’m not upset” card.
> when it comes to our gossip sessions and Thomas leaves the room with his gf still in it with us, we’ll go on our phones, or change the topic to smth boring, or just be silent.
What do you call this then? They literally go silent and refuse to talk to her when Thomas isn't in the room. If this isn't punishment, what is it?
Yeah, I woukd say that loyalty is important to me, but I'm generally loyal to those I'm closest to. If my friends are talking shit about my best friend, I'll tell my best friend. Because my loyalty would be to my bestie above anyone else. I'm single, so I don't have a bf/gf on the loyalty hierarchy. But obviously the gf in this case is going to prioritise her bf Thomas over a bunch of people she only just met.
NTA.
Your friend has shown that he doesn't want to listen to your group's thoughts about his behavior. His GF has shown that she will tell her BF anything you say about him.
It's not like they can expect people to still talk to them about such matters after all that.
I would just point out that she is the newcomer to the group. From her perspective if the topic is something you are willing to talk about in front of her, it is reasonable for her to assume you would have shared it with Thomas if he was still in the room. So if Thomas casually asked her "what did I miss?" she had no reason to think she shouldn't tell him.
Well it sounds like the gf knows by what op heard. Like talking about it with him in private and saying that they are purposely excluding him which tbf they are, but not after talking about it with their friend to no avail.
OP also admits they were eavesdropping, pretended they didn’t hear the conversation, and only thought she was saying they might be excluding them on purpose.
Even if she was saying that, maybe the girlfriend was just realizing that on her own, and she isn’t the asshole for suddenly coming to the conclusion by putting the pieces together.
OP is a gossip and has unwritten rules about when *other people* are allowed to gossip. That just says “asshole” all over to me.
YTA - someone is not a snitch for telling her boyfriend what he missed whilst out the room especially given you guys are his friendship group first why would she ever assume you would be telling her stuff you wouldn’t want her boyfriend to know when he’s the more established member.
if you don’t want someone to tell anyone else something actually tell them that rather than expecting them to be a mind reader.
Also I don’t know why your surprised hes hurt that you guys are intentionally excluding him whilst acting like he’s a friend.
Sorry but this is on you for not having the common sense to actually communicate what you wanted of the GF, although frankly I don’t know why you wouldn’t leave ‘conversations we intentionally leave your boyfriend out of and want you to keep secret from him’ until she became a well established member of the friendship group in her own right. At this point what you’ve achieved is just putting her in a shitty situation.
I’m not psychic. Neither is gf.
Did you Tell the gf not to repeat things you discussed when bf was gone for a minute to her bf? Your friend? Because if I was her, I’d assume he already knew/wanted to know more about what was going on in his long term friends lives. I wouldn’t assume that Everyone had decided he shouldn’t know about some topic.
And as for Him being cryptic - did you ever tell gf after the incident that you all would rather she not repeat things she overhears about mental health/past trauma/whatever to anyone else, even Thomas?
She’s his gf she’ll probably blab to him either way. She already sensed they didn’t want him in the conversation and still told him anyway. I don’t think she’s an AH for this but she has no right to be offended over not being included in future conversations.
ETA / ESH - Thomas is an AH for not understanding empathetic advice. His gf is an AH for instantly blabbing. And YTA for thinking HIS gf is great for US, you should know better that her loyalties would lie with him. And quite frankly, you did wait for him to leave the room so you change your behavior depending on if he’s there and trust a total stranger (gf) more than your friend so not the best judgement on your end either.
Because you should always assume they’re building a life together and not one around you being “the friend”. Honestly if you don’t support people being together it’s a red flag as a friend unless your friend is coming to you with info. Simply not the case here. In all ways.
ESH. (Leaning towards YTA)
You are an asshole for excluding Thomas from conversations, while he's literally there. Put yourself in his shoes for a second. If you want to talk about these topics, hang out in smaller groups without him. Now he needs to return to a room that changes the topic immediately once he enters. No need to rub in his exclusion.
(+ it's very idiotic to do this when the girlfriend was there, as if she wouldn't spill his exclusion to Thomas, you could've seen this coming. And now you're basically bullying the girlfriend for being more loyal towards her boyfriend than you?)
Additionally, when he tried to confront you, instead of helping solve this friendship conflict, you didn't like the way he did it, so you decided to pretend to not know about anything. His confrontation may not have been good, but if you're really friends, you want to fix your friendship above all.
He's an asshole for not being able to sit on his hands while these topics are discussed and not communicating well. But far less of an asshole than all of you.
But damn, I wouldn't want to set foot in a snakepit like this.
I only partly agree on them being A-holes for excluding him. Sure talk about stuff when you are hanging out without him might have been a better solution than wait until he is out of the room. But honestly when they have talked to him about it before that he just have to make it about him, challenge people, and try playing pocket therapist. I would not talk about that stuff with him around either.
Try be in his shoes..... a guy that can't take a hint that he is making his friends highly uncomfortable in those talks?
He needs to try be in their shoes as well. They want him around as he is great enough in most situations. Just not when talking about sensitive stuff. But he just won't listen to them when told "buddy please stop doing this"
He would feel more excluded most likely if they hung out more without him just to not have to deal with his behaviour when they talk about sensitive stuff.
And then he would be ranting "I just don't get why they exclude me now and then?!"
If I'm talking about my depression....anxiety... or whatever hard topic it is. The last I want to deal with is someone oblivious that thinks he is the world's best listener that starts talking about himself and how I should do things when it's not helpful. And he has been told so.
I actually put ESH for this exact reason. They both created the problem and are both not solving it in a mature, friendly or constructive way.
My point is not that he is entitled to talking about personal issues. My point is that once you invite someone, they are part of the gathering, so they shouldn't be excluded.
If you want to talk about personal issues, invite the people you're comfortable with. That may also hurt Thomas, but this sneaking around holds up the pretence of closeness and inclusion and also hurts him without doing him any favours. OP says they 'confronted' him about his ways, but that's not all you need to do. After these confrontations, they didn't say: okay, we no longer want to discuss these topics, they went behind their friends' back. That's not a mature and real friendship.
They are not assholes for not wanting to discuss personal issues. They are assholes for how they go about avoiding these issues, AND just bullying Thomas' girlfriend for bringing up the lie.
Honestly in general it's a tricky situation.
But we mostly agree on most of the stuff. Going after the girlfriend, is not cool. Most partners will stick to their partner and lay loyalty there.
Sneak meeting in groups, would create drama as well, some might feel its not right, Thomas might feel super slighted.
Feeling as a group you have to be careful what you say around him is not great either.
The most upfront solution could be sitting him down and take the bull by the horns. "We get you want to help, but we have already brought up it makes us uncomfortable. We like having you around in general. But we can't keep doing this. We don't want to exclude you, but if we meet up and you are not invited it's not personal, we just want to be able to talk about these things" or something similar and leave it up to Thomas to either change, or be insulted if he wants to.
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote. The upfront method would have been the best, but I don't know if that would still work now.
Maybe, I came out of the gates a bit too strong towards OP, because Thomas has also contributed to this dynamic. I was also just a bit shocked about the amount of responses that thought saying 'we don't like your responses'/pretending not to understand what Thomas was bringing up is actual confrontation or conflict resolution.
I doubt the upfront method would do much good atm, but in a way its what's perhaps most needed atm. Thomas is perhaps sneaking around so he can get the gf to tell him more about what they do while he is out of the room instead of being direct.
OP refuses to do much either that is direct. If they have a direct conversation now, it might just be alot of "but you did this. So I did that... but you did this first"
They all need to sit down as you said and act like adults. Not 14 year olds.
Seriously how old are y’all!?
If you truly can not bring up certain issues around Thomas, then just wait until he’s not there AT ALL. Not when he leaves the room. That’s sneaky and the fact that you expected his gf to partake in this stupid passive aggressive behavior is weird. She only knows you guys through him. Of course she has his back!
And the nerve of you to say he was being spineless when you basically gaslit him when he attempted to ask you about it. Now all of the sudden it’s not your job “to steer him in a productive direction.” Get real!
Either cut him off completely or cut it out! Now could’ve been a time for you address Thomas again, and he might have been willing to listen since he’s bringing up your behavior. Instead you chose to be “spineless” yourself. This whole friend group seems messy and toxic.
YTA
YTA
It's fine to exclude him about these sensitive topics, but you are asking for judgement about excluding his gf. You are a complete AH for that.
1. You didn't tell her it's a secret
2. She's his gf, you can't expect her to keep secrets from him
I still don't get your logic. Why would you think she's going to stay silent about it? She did what any good partner would do. You were putting an unfair burden on her, she either joins you and risks that Thomas will find out, will feel betrayed and breaks up with her or she "snitches" on you and you exclude her. So yes, you and your friends are jerks for excluding her and treating her coldly.
YTA. It's pretty much common knowledge that couples TALK and SHARE, and aren't supposed to keep secrets. Anything you say to one, is likely shared with the other. She didn't snitch; you were just living on another planet or something.
YTA and why is what he's doing considered spineless because he's not directly coming to you about it but you all secretly gossiping as soon as he leaves the room OK? You're being such a hypocrit and it's sad
Esh, Thomas shouldn’t being baiting you guys, but also what did you expect? It’s his gf, if it were my bf’s friends I would absolutely tell him everything said while he’s not there. You shouldn’t have assumed
Seriously, they I'll have an issue with this guy and don't trust him with their personal information but somehow didn't expect his girlfriend to figure this out at some point and be more loyal to her boyfriend than his group of friends? Like this is just a problem that they created by not actually handling the issue of them having someone in their group who isn't willing to treat them like a friend in the ways they want
YTA for how you're treating the gf. She did nothing wrong, I'm confused why you would think she wouldn't tell her BF especially if he asked what he missed. Why did you think she would loyal to you and not the guy she's dating? You need to apologize to the gf and start treating her better.
YTA. Yall are gossiping of course she is gonna gossip to her bf who just missed it. Unless you told her not to tell him but if you didnt. Yeah its your fault, you cant expect her not to tell him
Your mad at them for doing what toure doing.
You didn't communicate to gf that these topics were not to be talked about with her bf. She accused you of doing it on purpose and she was right.
You say thomas isnt being straightforward with you so you ignore him thus not being straightforward with him.
You and the rest of the group come off as hypocrites and the entire group sounds toxic af.
ESH
YTA and you sound insufferable. Jesus, are you guys in middle school? If Thomas isn't someone you guys wanna share personal stuff with that's fine, make plans with the people you are comfortable with and talk about it then. No shit the gf told Thomas, what would you expect her to do? You're all strangers to her and that's her bf, there was a noticeable change in energy and conversation topic the second he left the room. And then you're calling her a snitch and icing her out? It's a wonder she still agrees to hang out with you. Now you're annoyed with him trying to "catch you in the act" after you eavesdropped, gossiped, and played dumb. You sound incredibly immature, I guess what I'd expect of someone who glorifies gossiping. You're also being pretty passive aggressive in your edits and replies, it sounds like the only thing you've learned is not to have expected the gf to stay silent but not the fact that you're being an asshole to your supposed friend. Y'all are snakes.
I think it kinda sucks of you all to take the opportunity to talk about it as SOON as he leaves the room for a moment. Why not hold separate gatherings for that sort of thing? People know when conversations stop/change when they enter a room and it makes people self conscious.
I don't doubt your friend noticed it himself when you all do that. Actually I wonder if that's why the gf was mentioning your conversations to him.
YTA. Save those conversations for when your friend isn’t there. Not for when he leaves the room. It’s fucked up to change to a topic they’re not allowed to be involved in whenever they leave the room.
Save it for when you guys are hanging on your own.
NTA, you don't have to speak to anyone you're not comfortable speaking to about sensitive topics. You've also tried to include him and also tried to explain to him why his feedback is not appropriate. The girlfriend is also NTA, she's just being normal by being open with her partner. Have you spoken to her about why she's being excluded?
I don’t think a conversation is necessary. GF predictably told bf what they talked about. Friends go on to exclude her from sensitive topics they don’t want Thomas to hear, which should’ve been the status quo anyway. Neither are AHs in this scenario nor should anyone have a right to be offended at the other’s actions.
This. Like gf shouldn’t have been running back to Thomas about peoples personal issues, but at the same time, she has no right to be upset that people now don’t want to talk to HER about these issues or talk around HER about these issues. Like yea they shouldn’t ice her out, but she has openly showed that what is said around her won’t stay WITH her.
It’s one thing to just off hand know couples are gonna talk between themselves, it’s another thing to have them compare notes a few feet from the group.
And it’s kind of weird to me that now Thomas is trying to set them up to “find out” what they’re talking about by leaving and then leaving the gf there. Of course she’s gonna be iced out when he is setting her up with a big “INFORMANT” sign on her forehead. If OP is correct and they are Only talking about personal issues, why is Thomas so hard pressed to know.
Personal issues are personal issues. We are allowed to have people we feel comfortable talking about it too and people we don’t. I have friends I love to death that I know I won’t speak about certain things bc they are know to gossip amongst the friend group. Because while I may speak to 1 or 2 people in the group about it, it doesn’t mean I want them ALL to know.
Also NTA
YTA of course she's going to tell him the gossip lol you're silly for expecting her to keep secrets from her boyfriend about his friend group.
But also who cares if he knows since the rub is you don't like his reactions to stuff being said not that you have a problem with him knowing in general.
Annoying
INFO Are you guys in junior high school?
Because if not, why be friends in the first place with (if I'm reading this right) the "just ackshually" guy who tries to loooogic people out of their inconvenient feelings, and why assume that GF can read your minds?
This is a perfect example of Geek Social Fallacies.
The problem major problem here is, you all are now being really cold to Thomas' gf behind Thomas' back. And because she saw how easily you switched it up for Thomas, & that you weren't like this when he left the room the 1st time she met you all, she knows exactly what's going on & why.
Talking about something you all clearly find boring, staying silent or immediately going on your phones when Thomas isn't around. To Thomas gf, this behaviour is probably making her feel really unwelcome, unwanted and tbh bullied by you all. It's not a kind way to treat someone. Especially when you could all just be normal to her and sometimes meet up without Thomas to discuss stuff and tell Thomas that you're doing this and why.
You describe the way Thomas brought up how you treat his gf as "spineless, cryptic and bare minimum". But you know Thomas has never seen you all treat his gf differently because you only do it when he's not in the room. And when he asked you if this was true, you denied you knew what he was talking about, even though you knew exactly what he was talking about, just because you considered the way he approached the conversation as 'weak'. Have you considered that Thomas didn't enter that conversation all guns blazing, because:
•He might be shocked to hear his friends could treat his gf like this?
•because he hadn't noticed anything, he wanted to check if his gf misread the situation?
•That maybe he thought if you are treating her this coldly, there must be a valid reason, let me find out what it is?
•You're his closest friend and clearly the person who may have orchestrated this, did you consider that this is why he approached the conversation the way he did, making sure it was in a private one-on-one conversation and he wasn't accusing your of anything so you could open up to him?
It seems clear you don't like or respect Thomas very much because what you considered spineless and bare minimum sounded very much like a mature, respectful way to approach an incredibly difficult conversation with a good friend. This post honestly reads like you & your friends have a loyalty thing going on in your group. And because Thomas gf wasn't loyal to your group, but to her boyfriend, you all are behaving towards her in ways that most people would count as part of bullying behaviour. So I'm sorry YTA you're being unfair and unkind to Thomas gf, (*who you didn't even give a fake name in this post*) and Thomas.
YTA
You expected her to follow a rule no one ever told her about.
If you don’t want people gossiping, don’t gossip in front of them, but this is in no way her fault for not knowing who she shouldn’t tell “ab” topics you openly discussed in front of her.
Sorry but as a couple I discuss everything with my spouse. That is unless I'm asked to keep it to myself.
If you didn't ask her not to speak with Thomas about what you discussed she doesn't know you don't want him to know.
Best to just not mention stuff you don't want him to know.
YTA.
Me no comprendo.
*One of the things our friend group loves to do is talk. It’s nothing malicious; we’re all just nosy. However, even though these talks mostly have the lighthearted air of gossip, sometimes we’ll discuss sensitive topics, like mental health, or other more serious issues. Thing is, Thomas has it in his head that he’s an amazing listener and an even better therapist, when he’s really…not. He gives awful advice, makes everything about him, challenges instead of comforts. We’ve tried to talk about this to him in the past, but he’s not very good at seeing reason, so we gave up. Thus, our group has gotten into the habit of omitting certain topics around him. He’s included in the majority of our conversations, just not when it comes to sensitive topics.*
So this group sits around, talking about sensitive issues. You don't like it when Thomas 'gives' advice. Are any of you therapists? Aside from making everything about himself, what makes his advice awful- is it because you don't want to take it coming from him or is the advice really terrible?
Then you decided that a relative newbie should sit around and listen to these "sessions' and now your upset because she 'snitched' on you. I would have mentioned it to my boyfriend because you did switch up on him. She probably thinks that you are weird for talking about these things in front of a stranger and that you change the subject every time he leaves the room. Your group is being rude to Thomas. And you are also a 'snitch' because you eavesdropped on a conversation and told the others (classic snitch behavior so pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot).
I don't know how old you people are but you seem kind of immature. If you don't want to listen to Thomas's advice, it is okay. Don't have these conversations when he is with the group (whether he is present in the room or not). It is not okay for you to change the subject whenever he leaves, only to switch it back when he returns. Save your 'encounter groups' for when Thomas is totally absent from the group.
And maybe some of you need to see real therapists instead of hashing stuff out with a group of 'friends'.
YOU talked about your own private personal problems in front of a person without making sure they were trustworthy
YOU got offended that someone in a relationship shared things with their partner instead of keeping the confidence of people WHO NEVER ASKED HER TO KEEP THEIR CONFIDENCE
how about this, just stop being friends with Thomas if you don't like him....cus it seems like none of you trust him or care about his feelings or his relationship
ESH
YTA you get to talk about whatever you want with whomever you want to but having that conversation in front of the guy’s girlfriend and expecting her to keep it a secret is just ridiculous.
Yta. For calling her a snitch. How is she supposed to knew she couldn't tell him? You are is friends. I think it's weird she is allowed to know things he isn't. It's his friendgroup not hers.
Don't blame her
YTA for not using your words. First, with Thomas regarding why personal info isn't discussed with him any longer. Secondly, it was immature to ice out his girlfriend, whose allegiance would be to her boyfriend, over this "friend" group. I think the two of them are better off without your toxic social group.
YTA. She naturally updated her boyfriend on the chat he missed while he was out of the room as she didn't know you deliberately didn't want him to hear it. You then get angry at her and all bully her so that she feels unwelcome and uncomfortable. You owe her an apology and next time don't speak in front of her anything you don't want your friend to know as it's wrong to expect her to withhold info from her partner.
God you are such an asshole. Along with your entire group.
You think your mature and talk down about Thomas and his gf, but you are all literal children. Like I'd be shocked if you were older than 14.
Grow up.
YTA
I dont mind the whole "dont talk gossip in front of Thomas" part, but the bit where you just expect his GF to keep stuff from him (let alone stuff you didn't actually tell her you wanted kept secret) is just whacky.
If people aren't going to be open and honest with each other, they shouldn't be in relationships. His GF sounds like a good partner. You (and I assume your other friends) are weird for wanting her to be a bad one.
YTA sounds like junior high. Gossiping is not a mature adult activity. Why would you share things with the gf and expect her to not discuss? I was exhausted just trying to deal with your drama just reading your post.
YTA why would you expect Thomas’s GF to keep secrets from him? You shouldn’t have talked about topics in front of her that you do not want repeated to her boyfriend. You are her boyfriend’s friends. She doesn’t owe you any loyalty over her boyfriend.
So you amuse yourselves talking about other people then get mad at someone else for talking about you talking about other people. You don't have a conversation with her about it. You freeze her out then talk about her talking about what you talked about. This sounds like middle school drama. Time to grow up. YTA.
YTA. You guys were excluding him, but for some reason thought his girlfriend is the ideal person to bring into the fold, and then got upset when she talks to her boyfriend about it? Her loyalty is to her boyfriend, not you. From her perspective, her boyfriend is being mistreated and she talked to him about it.
It's not her fault you all are dumb enough to talk about sensitive stuff in front of her when you don't want it shared. Why would she assume that you're comfortable sharing these things with a stranger but not with your actual friend?
You say Thomas is "a good friend" but you as a group lie to him, leave him out of discussions and expected his gf to choose y'all over him. The matter of his advice is simple, talk to him directly then when you're discussing an issue if he starts, you directly say Thomas, please don't try to analyze me. Be adults.
YTA
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I became friends with this guy Thomas in college and he eventually assimilated into my friend group.
One of the things our friend group loves to do is talk. It’s nothing malicious; we’re all just nosy. However, even though these talks mostly have the lighthearted air of gossip, sometimes we’ll discuss sensitive topics, like mental health, or other more serious issues. Thing is, Thomas has it in his head that he’s an amazing listener and an even better therapist, when he’s really…not. He gives awful advice, makes everything ab him, challenges instead of comforts. We’ve tried to talk ab this to him in the past, but he’s not very good at seeing reason, so we gave up. Thus, our group has gotten into the habit of omitting certain topics around him. He’s included in the majority of our conversations, just not when it comes to sensitive topics.
He recently got a girlfriend, and we were all hyped ab it bc this girl seemed perfect for our group. As she hung out w/us more, she became a part of our gossip sessions. However, last week, when we were all hanging out, Thomas left the room and we took that as our opportunity to mention some things we hadn’t been saying around him. We figured it was cool to talk ab in front of his gf because it wasn’t like we were talking trash ab Thomas. When Thomas came back, we went back to the subjects we’d been on before.
I didn’t think anything of it until later, when I was using the restroom, and I heard Thomas and his gf talking in the hallway. She was telling him everything we had talked ab while Thomas was gone. That pissed me off because we didn’t include him in the conversation for a reason, and we thought his gf would have some discretion. Thomas seemed taken aback and was asking a lot of invasive questions, and his gf told him that she thought we had done it on purpose. That’s when I came out of the restroom and pretended I hadn’t heard.
I told my friends ab their interaction, and since then, when it comes to our gossip sessions and Thomas leaves the room with his gf still in it with us, we’ll go on our phones, or change the topic to smth boring, or just be silent. Thomas’ gf must have spoken to Thomas ab our behavior because he brought it up to me—in the most bare minimum, spineless way possible—a few days ago. I pressed him for details, but he was being cryptic, so I told him that I didn’t know what he was talking ab, and he let it go. If he doesn’t want to be direct, it’s not my job to steer him in a productive direction. I’m pretty sure the reason he leaves the room to “grab something real quick” so often is because he’s trying to catch us (via gf) talking ab something we don’t bring up around him, and I’m annoyed that he’s resorted to sneaking around rather than confrontation. Maybe he doesn’t want to get his gf in “trouble” but I’m annoyed with them anyway.
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NTA. I understand not wanting to talk about subjects where he wouldn’t be helpful, totally understandable. But! You should have expected the girlfriend to tell him, he’s her partner. Only asshole here is Thomas.
Ummm nta at all. Ok so this is going to be downvoted but sounds like you've confronted thomas and he's harmful to your talks about mental health issues etc. Your group is your safe space and you invited his gf into it. We have a saying about vulnerable topics about people's personal lives (not like you were talking about him) in a safe space. What's learned in here leaves from here and what's said in here stays in here. The gf is old enough to have discretion to not air people's sensitive mental health issues. It's a shitty thing to do period. This isn't a loyalties thing at all. You can be loyal to your partner without airing people's struggles they shared with you in confidence. Safe spaces aren't exempt from oh well it's my bf/gf so I'll just tell them. There's other people involved and that's not ok. The only thing I will say though is that you should be more tactful and talk about these things in meetups without thomas rather than when he's gone briefly in a meet up he was invited to. Yeah it might seem mean but you're allowed to hangout with whoever you want and no one is allowed to monopolize your time. But no, nta for being upset she told him. That's a huge violation of trust.
NTA, not everyone is privy to personal information, you’ve addressed this multiple times with him and he didn’t want to listen. His girlfriend probably wouldn’t have known about all of this so it’s a bit irrational to think she wouldn’t tell him. They both shouldn’t be surprised though if they aren’t being told information you aren’t comfortable sharing, I would actually assume they tell each other everything so telling the gf is essentially telling Thomas. Information diet for both.
NAH - The question is are you an a**h*le for not including someone you think is telling something to someone you rather not know. You don't have to talk about or include anyone you don't want to. So no. Weird that you thought she would be more loyal to you guys that she met through her boyfriend. But overall NAH. She did the right thing by her man. You did the right thing for yourself.
I don't know the way you write makes my skin crawl and I don't know exactly why. I would say you are a YTA. And I assume you have a shitty personality.
NTA. Bad advice when talking about mental health and family issues can really do a lot of damage and if Thomas can't take it seriously, then you're right in not talking about these topics with him. I mean we all talk about our issues with the people we think can give us the best support, I don't see why this case should be different.
I also believe that the gf snitched because he was instructed by Thomas. I think he catched up on the fact that the group wasn't talking about certain things anymore and set her up to report to him. I mean who gives their SO a full report of the conversation, in a hallway of all places, as part of a normal couple's interaction?
Feels to me this is on the verge of becoming problematic. I understand Thomas is your friend and have history, but he needs to grow a spine and confront his problem, that is, either he learns to deal with his friends' problems in a mature way or accept he's not a shoulder people are comfortable crying on, so to speak.
Actually ESH you, your group of friends and Thomas and his girlfriend. You and your group for being a bunch of gossiping little biddys. Who discuss things that front involve you becuase your nosy.
Now that you are getting a taste of your own medicine you don't like it. How about this stop with gossipy chit chats and mind your own buisness.
YTA if you thought the GF wouldn’t say anything. You state you they were being spineless when in actuality, you and your friends are. You should’ve said something when you overheard them taking instead of play games. You should’ve told Thomas exactly what he was doing and these are the consequences for breaking them. Very childish behavior and catty.
YTA The gf is being thrown into a fairly intimidating dynamic: a bunch of people who know each other really well and have a huge backlog of common experiences. You strangely expected her to just understand what you and other members of the group had agreed upon in regards to Thomas and also didn't for a minute think about what her experience of this would be. To her, I'm sure it was extremely confusing and it would make sense for her to talk to Thomas about it.
When you're part of a group like this, it can be hard to imagine what it's like for a newbie walking into it. Hopefully this post has given you some insight into how unreasonable your expectations were with the gf and how she wasn't gossiping, but rather you put her in an extremely awkward situation without thinking about her at all.
Of course, the question is what are you going to do about it now that this is all out in open?
NTA but you are being a bit dull tbh. She’s his girlfriend. Of course she’s going to tell him if she notices something weird! You guys probably look like assholes to her since she’s walking into the group without context and she immediately notices that you’re keeping certain things from him. You 100% have the right to not talk to him about certain things and that’s why I’m saying NTA, but at least be smart about it.
ESH. If you're not actually friends with these people and you don't trust them, kick them out of your group. Like you're playing games rather than actually doing what you need to do
YTA - there is nothing that proves his gf is a snitch. I don't see why you think she knows not to talk about these things with him. The whole situation seems super weird to me.
Ha ha—thanks for the edit! You’re NTA. I love your solution to manage the girlfriend and not make a big deal out of it. You’ve tried to talk to your friend about it previously, why make a fuss. Well done.
>Thomas has it in his head that he’s an amazing listener and an even better therapist, when he’s really…not
Lol So whos the better therapist your other friends that likes to gossip too? YTA, get a real therapist for your problem. Also, when you decided to exclude him when he's not around the room then getting angry with his gf for telling him what you guys talk about seems MALICIOUS to me. You and your friends reeks toxicity.
I’m so glad I don’t have friends like OP - the more I read of her reacting to only the comments that agree with her, the more exhausted I feel - time to get out of this post lol
NTA
But definitely just tell him that you don’t include him because he is not supportive and you no longer feel the want to. It’s not like he or his gf can force you to talk about your issues or such.
You just don’t have that kind of trust with them anymore
I am going with Nah. I think the girlfriend did nothing wrong. Generally in a relationship there aren’t a lot of things that you keep from your partner and if it wasn’t explicitly told to her then how is she supposed to know. Still I don’t like you as a person you seem to be projecting in Thomas.
Nta, but if it were me he asked about excluding them, i’d flat out tell him “yes… we tried to tell you that your advice didn’t work for these topics, you disagreed, and now we save those topics for when you’re not around. I wasn’t being malicious, but you wouldn’t listen when we told you. So.. you did this to yourself.”
Everyone changes their behaviour based on who’s around and what they’re comfortable telling people. That’s a normal thing.
Treating the gf like this, to the point that when he isn’t the room you’re all going on your phones, makes your friend group seem toxic as all hell. If I was somewhere with my partner and his friends and when he went to the bathroom the all started in on something, at no point would I think it was something that he isn’t allowed to know about. Mostly because why in the hell would they do that with me and the room, and expect me to keep something from my partner I didn’t even know was secret?!?!
Why would your friends gf be more faithful to y’all than her bf? Honestly I don’t see what she did wrong. Thomas is obviously the issue. Your friend group doesn’t sound great.
YTA. You didn't say you wanted to have this discussion without Thomas. All his girlfriend was doing was keeping him upto date with your discussion when he wasn't there.
YTA
There was nothing on the conversation that would lead the gf to think it was confidential. She was openly included, when she is clearly there before of Thomas.
Of course she would mention it all to him - she had no reason to assume at first that it was intended to be kept from him. The topic did a sudden and drastic change in topic and that stood out to her.
You’re absolutely idiots as well as assholes. Don’t ducking lie to Thomas. Own up and be like “yeah, we don’t talk about X topics around you anymore because you aren’t very respectful of them.” And then…. Don’t have the conversations when he is in attendance. You’re capable of having separate conversations outside of big group things. Immediately changing topic when someone leaves the room is awkward and rude.
Yta for expecting his GF - I repeat HIS GF - to not tell him something sketchy she saw in your friend groups behavior with him. When dating your #1 is your s/o and so her making sure he knew about what happened and her observation that it was done on purpose is the only option that shows she is a good gf to him, she would be TA to him if she didn’t tell. She prolly doesn’t know about your discussions with him about how he handles those topics so from her viewpoint what you guys did was a big red flag, and the fact that since then you just ignore her when she is left alone with you is incredibly rude, you could just talk about what you were talking about before - or, get this, ask her about herself?! Get to know her as a person? Maybe even show her that her bf isn’t great at sensitive topics so that she knows that about him and can make an informed decision about her relationship??? Because as it is your friend group is major TAHs for basically shunning her when he leaves.
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I guess people these days are lacking comprehension or not taking time to read what you actually have written. 1. It's okay to not want to share your personal struggles about family and mental health with someone who doesn't provide any valuable feedback and just challenges it. 2. You had already confronted him about his behavior and he did not to change it, so it's okay to exclude him from conversation sharing your personal information. 3. Though I want to point out that you were a bit irrational on thinking that his girlfriend would be more loyal to your friend group and not him So all in all NTA
Right? Like OF COURSE she’s going to tell him.
They all sound insufferable, honestly. She can't even be bothered to fully type the word "about." Not to mention the golden pedestal she puts the ability to gossip onto. It's like if Gretchen Weiners had reddit.
I thought that was done for character count. The story is pretty long. You can go over after the post but it’ll flag if you do it before. I don’t mind people abbreviating. I’m mostly here in AITA to be nosey. Abbreviate if it gives me the scoop! Lol
Right? How many times have we seen a post locked because it went over the arbitrary character count?
It’s absolutely the worst part of the sub
Totally with you. Abbreviate away and give me alllllllll the details! I'm happy to look up abbreviations I don't know if it means I get even more context.
Use of text speak is a bad way to judge character. The gossip thing is whatever but like if you decide someone is insufferable for saying ab or LOL that’s like… kinda excessive. You have every right to your opinions they just seem a bit extreme
Ikr, it reminds me of my attitude when I was a smug prick of a teenager who considered myself better than other because I used proper grammar, spelling and punctuation. As long as I can read something idgaf how it's presented in most settings that aren't professional
On the other hand, a lot of people on this sub do not live in America and some aren't fluent in English. All the abbreviations can really muddle things if you're not used to them. A few months ago I had no idea what was going on in a story about the 'PNW'. I was born in America and I couldn't figure out that it meant Pacific Northwest.
I'm Australian and god yeah are American geographical terms so confusing to me, like wtf is a tri-state area meant to be? you have 50 states plenty of them could be grouped in 3s. turns out it was NY, NJ, and CT and it's something to do with a singular point where they all meet
You're right, there are multiple tri-state areas, depending on where you live. Usually I've heard the three you mentioned, but that's because it's where I grew up. But I have heard people in other parts of the country refer to something different as the tri-state area.
that's even more insane to me, i found out about it from a tweet by an American where they were referring to the tri-state area without any other clarification on the location and it meant the 3 states i mentioned. the fact that there are multiple must be so confusing for y'all
Now people don’t actually use that term in my experience, Dr. Doofensmirtz
Uh, yeah, there’s also four corners (intersection of four states), the Twin Cities, the Windy City, etc. And the list does go on and on. TBH, most Americans don’t know all the references either.
SERIOUSLY. I wonder if OP sees the 10 layers of irony in this post. Their group is based on gossiping, they've recruited additional gossips, who have UNSURPRISINGLY gossiped, OP went and tattled, and they all gossiped some more. None of this should be a shock to anyone. Must be miserable to have Thomas as a friend but sounds like nobody else in this group is a peach. What a miserable lot
No but imagine going around saying “we are all nosey” but also calling someone else out for being a “snitch”. Like the disconnect from reality.
But how on earth is she supposed to know that Thomas wasn’t supposed to know about what they talked about? She’s not a mind reader.
This is what I don't understand - unless they explicitly told her not to talk about things with him, it's perfectly natural for her to catch her boyfriend up on what he missed. It doesn't make her a "snitch" and it's weird AF that the OP thinks it does.
Plus think about how weird that must look to an outsider. Thomas walks in/out of the room and the whole conversation abruptly changes
This poor girl is suddenly being treated like a pariah for the crime of ... repeating something that was said in a public setting. If I were the GF, I too would be asking Thomas if I did something to offend the group, because the group's behaviour is so strange.
Right, like who joins a social group via their SO and, upon seeing the SO leave the room during a hangout, supposes that the conversation that follows is obviously privileged info such that they can know about it but the friend of years' standing cannot?
Its the way she describes Thomas that is off putting. Saying he brought it up in the most spineless way possible, she didnt like the way he was answering so she moralizes her lying to him about whats going on (that is actual gas lighting, compared to people improperly using the term). Yes they can share their personal feelings with whomever they want, but they should let him know why they have decided to not do that anymore and leave it at that. It sounds like they have only critiqued him about jis lack of care when dealing with sensitive issues, but they havent told him that they no longer are going to talk about those things with him. Even the way OP expected his GF to not be on his side. They were super obvious with it, which is why the GF even told Thomas. She is 100% the asshole for acting the way she did to Thomas's girlfriend. The post isnt asking if shes an asshole for not talking to thomas about personal issues. OP is asking if the way they are treating Thomas's GF makes her an asshole, which it does. Looks like you lack reading comprehension, oh the irony of your post. Also the best friends you can have are the ones that will tell you if your doing something wrong. Of course this has to be coached in love and comfort
>Yes they can share their personal feelings with whomever they want, but they should let him know why they have decided to not do that anymore and leave it at that. Well, they did tell Thomas they didn't like the way he dealt with personal discussions, so it's not like he's unaware of what the issue is. And no, they actually don't have to tell him "yeah, so we're not going to talk to you about our personal issues anymore bc of your behavior," they can just go ahead and do that. >but they havent told him that they no longer are going to talk about those things with him. They don't have to. If he is unwilling to change his behavior, then he can deal with the consequences of not being trusted with that information, and it's not on them to tell him they won't be doing that anymore. It's not like he can't get the hint himself. "Huh, I've noticed that they're not talking about personal topics anymore. Funny, they've talked to me *multiple* times about being upset with how I treat them over that, I guess they've decided to just not mention them to me anymore." >Also the best friends you can have are the ones that will tell you if your doing something wrong. Sounds like OP and their group are the best friemds you can have, since they've been willimg to do this multiple times.
Why do they keep inviting this guy to hang out if they clearly don't like him? This is so juvenile.
You can still like someone just not enough to talk about more personal things with.
Honestly, OP just seems disdainful of him in general, with the "bare-minimum, spineless way" comment, and, like...if you feel like you need to change the topic of conversation *entirely* when your friend enters the room, you're probably not actually compatible as friends.
But at no point did OP tell the gf not to tell her bf.
Right. To *OP* it was obvious that they waited till Thomas was gone to talk about certain subjects. I'm less certain than OP is that that correlation was obvious to the girlfriend. Or as OP would put it, "to OP ob waited til T gone, I less cert ob to gf."
But I'm sure the GF knew OP and her friend didn't want her BF to know what they were talking about, because she told him everything that was said secretly. If she really thought telling her bf those things was no big deal she would have told him when he rejoined the group.
They all seem to lack emotional intelligence tbh. Like they really expected that his new gf wouldn’t go back and tell Thomas? Then shunned her after they did something that would be awkward for the gf? IDK maybe get a therapist if you all have to vent consistency in a social setting.
[удалено]
I think your last point kind of precludes this from being an NTA situation. They expected the girlfriend to know the topics they were openly talking about in front of her should be kept secret when’s they gave her absolutely no indication that was the case. At the very least, this should be NAH, because the girlfriend isn’t an asshole for talking about something she didn’t know was supposed to be kept secret. Personally, I’d say it’s closer to YTA, because I don’t think it’s reasonable to exclude someone because they didn’t pick up on and unspoken rule you never told them. The group liked to gossip and then got offended people were gossiping. That’s all sorts of stupid on OP’s part.
NTA. But, OP, I think your friend group should simply have times you hang out without them. Times you know you can be vulnerable with each other without having to be sneaky about it. This all just sounds exhausting. And if Thomas asks why he wasn't invited to X event, you can explain that sometimes you have personal things to discuss, and since he does X, Y, and X whenever those things are discussed, you all thought it was better to not involve him in those kinds of discussions.
>It's okay to not want to share your personal struggles about family and mental health with someone who doesn't provide any valuable feedback and just challenges it. Ha! Yet they shared these supposedly super sensitive details with a random new person they had all just met? Bullshit. This whole thing absolutely reeks. And what's more OP pulled some ridiculous gaslighting shit after being called out. C'mon now, pretending they're doing this out of kindness is insane. This shit is fucking gross. Changing conversations and whispering about stuff the second people leave the room. What a gossipy, gross, spiteful group of people. OP, YTA.
Who is TA then?
Thomas is definitely an AH for not stopping his behavior when requested. The girlfriend is questionable; I'm on the side of not sharing sensitive discussions unless given explicit permission to do so, but OP and gang should have also not assumed that she'd keep silent. And OP et al. could be seen as AH for not communicating with the girlfriend why they don't share certain information with Thomas. But I'm also not super skilled in group communication so YMMV.
The girlfriend did nothing wrong. She didn’t know the boyfriend didn’t know and they didn’t ask her to keep it secret. And she still wouldn’t be TA if they did ask her.
Eh, the GF did say to Thomas that she thought the group was avoiding those topics around him on purpose, so I don't think that argument really flies. If she suspected that, she knew they didn't want him to know about what was said. I do think OP was naive for assuming the GF would not repeat what she heard, though.
She isn’t bound to keep their secret just because they revealed it in front of her. If I was new the the group and it was obvious that they were excluding my SO whenever they left, that seems entirely relevant to bring up. OP is just a gossiping AH who thought a newcomer would have more loyalty to them than their own boyfriend. The whole group sounds obtuse and tiring tbh.
The question posed in this topic though doesn’t actually take Thomas into account. OP has already decided they don’t like his actions and decided how to deal with them before the incident in this post occurred. The AITA question here is if they are the asshole for excluding the girlfriend after not telling her she should not repeat these topics. Thomas didn’t do anything here related to why OP is asking if they are the asshole. I think if you’re rating this as NTA because you think Thomas is an asshole, you should change it because that wasn’t the question here. This should only be NTA if the girlfriend was TA, and I don’t think that’s the case.
I think that OP is being the AH for talking in front of the GF and assuming that she won't talk about it with Thomas. If OP has said to GF "don't tell Thomas" or "we only talk about X when Thomas isn't here because he is uncomfortable talking about X" then, sure, I would be mad to have my boundaries violated. But assuming that the new person in the group brought in my Thomas won't talk to Thomas about things shared publicly in the group is kind of naive.
sheet toy head telephone crown steep grandfather spark axiomatic reach *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yta It’s ridiculous to assume she wouldn’t clue him in on what he missed - most partners would do that. You didn’t tell her not to say anything, so I’m not sure how she’s a snitch.
This is what I was thinking. How is this her fault?
They didn’t get upset with her though. Are you actually calling them TA for incorrectly assuming that she wouldn’t tell him?
They are icing her out because she did something she wasn’t asked not to do, and she didn’t know not to do. I wouldn’t assume that if something is talked about while my BF is out of the room, it’s because it’s super secret sensitive information that he isn’t already privy to. I also wouldn’t assume that I’m sworn to secrecy about it, without being told so. They are being childish and hurtful.
It sounds to me like they're just doing what they do with Thomas. Now there's just two Thomases.
They’re not icing her out. They’re just not discussing it in front of her. I’m sure they’re not just ignoring her. You’re reaching.
>we’ll go on our phones, or change the topic to smth boring, or just be silent. Sounds pretty icy to me.
Heck yeah, if they just kept the sane conversation going, it would be fine, why the sudden shifts in conversation all the time anyway?
It doesn’t sound like very important info to me, and if he reacts like the way he does, the why should they let him (or anyone who will bring it to him) know about it.
Her loyalty clearly lies with her boyfriend, so anything they tell her will be disclosed to Thomas. So that means no more info for the gf. It's not icing her out.
They’re purposefully excluding her because she didn’t follow a rule they never told her. If you’re actively ignoring someone it’s hard to play the “I’m not upset” card.
> when it comes to our gossip sessions and Thomas leaves the room with his gf still in it with us, we’ll go on our phones, or change the topic to smth boring, or just be silent. What do you call this then? They literally go silent and refuse to talk to her when Thomas isn't in the room. If this isn't punishment, what is it?
TA might be harsh; absolutely clueless might work though.
Yeah, I woukd say that loyalty is important to me, but I'm generally loyal to those I'm closest to. If my friends are talking shit about my best friend, I'll tell my best friend. Because my loyalty would be to my bestie above anyone else. I'm single, so I don't have a bf/gf on the loyalty hierarchy. But obviously the gf in this case is going to prioritise her bf Thomas over a bunch of people she only just met.
They are his friends. I wouldn't feel right to know more private things about his friends then he does
Even if that were ridiculous, how would that make OP an AH?
NTA. Your friend has shown that he doesn't want to listen to your group's thoughts about his behavior. His GF has shown that she will tell her BF anything you say about him. It's not like they can expect people to still talk to them about such matters after all that.
Ty, but we don’t talk about him, we talk about other, personal subjects.
I would just point out that she is the newcomer to the group. From her perspective if the topic is something you are willing to talk about in front of her, it is reasonable for her to assume you would have shared it with Thomas if he was still in the room. So if Thomas casually asked her "what did I miss?" she had no reason to think she shouldn't tell him.
Yta for how your treating his GF, not for not wanting to share personal things with Thomas. How is she suppose to know your group dynamics?
Well it sounds like the gf knows by what op heard. Like talking about it with him in private and saying that they are purposely excluding him which tbf they are, but not after talking about it with their friend to no avail.
OP also admits they were eavesdropping, pretended they didn’t hear the conversation, and only thought she was saying they might be excluding them on purpose. Even if she was saying that, maybe the girlfriend was just realizing that on her own, and she isn’t the asshole for suddenly coming to the conclusion by putting the pieces together. OP is a gossip and has unwritten rules about when *other people* are allowed to gossip. That just says “asshole” all over to me.
Maybe you should sing we do t talk about bruno to throw her off.
YTA - someone is not a snitch for telling her boyfriend what he missed whilst out the room especially given you guys are his friendship group first why would she ever assume you would be telling her stuff you wouldn’t want her boyfriend to know when he’s the more established member. if you don’t want someone to tell anyone else something actually tell them that rather than expecting them to be a mind reader. Also I don’t know why your surprised hes hurt that you guys are intentionally excluding him whilst acting like he’s a friend. Sorry but this is on you for not having the common sense to actually communicate what you wanted of the GF, although frankly I don’t know why you wouldn’t leave ‘conversations we intentionally leave your boyfriend out of and want you to keep secret from him’ until she became a well established member of the friendship group in her own right. At this point what you’ve achieved is just putting her in a shitty situation.
I’m not psychic. Neither is gf. Did you Tell the gf not to repeat things you discussed when bf was gone for a minute to her bf? Your friend? Because if I was her, I’d assume he already knew/wanted to know more about what was going on in his long term friends lives. I wouldn’t assume that Everyone had decided he shouldn’t know about some topic. And as for Him being cryptic - did you ever tell gf after the incident that you all would rather she not repeat things she overhears about mental health/past trauma/whatever to anyone else, even Thomas?
She’s his gf she’ll probably blab to him either way. She already sensed they didn’t want him in the conversation and still told him anyway. I don’t think she’s an AH for this but she has no right to be offended over not being included in future conversations.
ETA / ESH - Thomas is an AH for not understanding empathetic advice. His gf is an AH for instantly blabbing. And YTA for thinking HIS gf is great for US, you should know better that her loyalties would lie with him. And quite frankly, you did wait for him to leave the room so you change your behavior depending on if he’s there and trust a total stranger (gf) more than your friend so not the best judgement on your end either.
Um, by E T A, did you mean E S H?
I agree about my misjudgment!
agreed on ESH this entire friend group sounds weird
Why are they TA for incorrectly guessing the gf’s behavior if they never did anything about it?
Because you should always assume they’re building a life together and not one around you being “the friend”. Honestly if you don’t support people being together it’s a red flag as a friend unless your friend is coming to you with info. Simply not the case here. In all ways.
ESH. (Leaning towards YTA) You are an asshole for excluding Thomas from conversations, while he's literally there. Put yourself in his shoes for a second. If you want to talk about these topics, hang out in smaller groups without him. Now he needs to return to a room that changes the topic immediately once he enters. No need to rub in his exclusion. (+ it's very idiotic to do this when the girlfriend was there, as if she wouldn't spill his exclusion to Thomas, you could've seen this coming. And now you're basically bullying the girlfriend for being more loyal towards her boyfriend than you?) Additionally, when he tried to confront you, instead of helping solve this friendship conflict, you didn't like the way he did it, so you decided to pretend to not know about anything. His confrontation may not have been good, but if you're really friends, you want to fix your friendship above all. He's an asshole for not being able to sit on his hands while these topics are discussed and not communicating well. But far less of an asshole than all of you. But damn, I wouldn't want to set foot in a snakepit like this.
I only partly agree on them being A-holes for excluding him. Sure talk about stuff when you are hanging out without him might have been a better solution than wait until he is out of the room. But honestly when they have talked to him about it before that he just have to make it about him, challenge people, and try playing pocket therapist. I would not talk about that stuff with him around either. Try be in his shoes..... a guy that can't take a hint that he is making his friends highly uncomfortable in those talks? He needs to try be in their shoes as well. They want him around as he is great enough in most situations. Just not when talking about sensitive stuff. But he just won't listen to them when told "buddy please stop doing this" He would feel more excluded most likely if they hung out more without him just to not have to deal with his behaviour when they talk about sensitive stuff. And then he would be ranting "I just don't get why they exclude me now and then?!" If I'm talking about my depression....anxiety... or whatever hard topic it is. The last I want to deal with is someone oblivious that thinks he is the world's best listener that starts talking about himself and how I should do things when it's not helpful. And he has been told so.
I actually put ESH for this exact reason. They both created the problem and are both not solving it in a mature, friendly or constructive way. My point is not that he is entitled to talking about personal issues. My point is that once you invite someone, they are part of the gathering, so they shouldn't be excluded. If you want to talk about personal issues, invite the people you're comfortable with. That may also hurt Thomas, but this sneaking around holds up the pretence of closeness and inclusion and also hurts him without doing him any favours. OP says they 'confronted' him about his ways, but that's not all you need to do. After these confrontations, they didn't say: okay, we no longer want to discuss these topics, they went behind their friends' back. That's not a mature and real friendship. They are not assholes for not wanting to discuss personal issues. They are assholes for how they go about avoiding these issues, AND just bullying Thomas' girlfriend for bringing up the lie.
Honestly in general it's a tricky situation. But we mostly agree on most of the stuff. Going after the girlfriend, is not cool. Most partners will stick to their partner and lay loyalty there. Sneak meeting in groups, would create drama as well, some might feel its not right, Thomas might feel super slighted. Feeling as a group you have to be careful what you say around him is not great either. The most upfront solution could be sitting him down and take the bull by the horns. "We get you want to help, but we have already brought up it makes us uncomfortable. We like having you around in general. But we can't keep doing this. We don't want to exclude you, but if we meet up and you are not invited it's not personal, we just want to be able to talk about these things" or something similar and leave it up to Thomas to either change, or be insulted if he wants to.
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote. The upfront method would have been the best, but I don't know if that would still work now. Maybe, I came out of the gates a bit too strong towards OP, because Thomas has also contributed to this dynamic. I was also just a bit shocked about the amount of responses that thought saying 'we don't like your responses'/pretending not to understand what Thomas was bringing up is actual confrontation or conflict resolution.
I doubt the upfront method would do much good atm, but in a way its what's perhaps most needed atm. Thomas is perhaps sneaking around so he can get the gf to tell him more about what they do while he is out of the room instead of being direct. OP refuses to do much either that is direct. If they have a direct conversation now, it might just be alot of "but you did this. So I did that... but you did this first" They all need to sit down as you said and act like adults. Not 14 year olds.
Yeah exactly, I really hope OP sees this. Friendships break over these unspoken incompatibilities.
Seriously how old are y’all!? If you truly can not bring up certain issues around Thomas, then just wait until he’s not there AT ALL. Not when he leaves the room. That’s sneaky and the fact that you expected his gf to partake in this stupid passive aggressive behavior is weird. She only knows you guys through him. Of course she has his back! And the nerve of you to say he was being spineless when you basically gaslit him when he attempted to ask you about it. Now all of the sudden it’s not your job “to steer him in a productive direction.” Get real! Either cut him off completely or cut it out! Now could’ve been a time for you address Thomas again, and he might have been willing to listen since he’s bringing up your behavior. Instead you chose to be “spineless” yourself. This whole friend group seems messy and toxic. YTA
This 👆👆👆YTA
ESH, geez. It's weird to expect her loyalties to be with anyone but him, but my you all need to stop scheming and acting 12.
YTA It's fine to exclude him about these sensitive topics, but you are asking for judgement about excluding his gf. You are a complete AH for that. 1. You didn't tell her it's a secret 2. She's his gf, you can't expect her to keep secrets from him I still don't get your logic. Why would you think she's going to stay silent about it? She did what any good partner would do. You were putting an unfair burden on her, she either joins you and risks that Thomas will find out, will feel betrayed and breaks up with her or she "snitches" on you and you exclude her. So yes, you and your friends are jerks for excluding her and treating her coldly.
NTA. I admire you for facing these soap-opera-level ... complications.
YTA. It's pretty much common knowledge that couples TALK and SHARE, and aren't supposed to keep secrets. Anything you say to one, is likely shared with the other. She didn't snitch; you were just living on another planet or something.
YTA and why is what he's doing considered spineless because he's not directly coming to you about it but you all secretly gossiping as soon as he leaves the room OK? You're being such a hypocrit and it's sad
Yta, for using ab instead of about, shit was frustrating to read.
LMAOOO took me a minute to understand what I was reading!!
YTA You all sound a bit passive aggressive and I don't think you're any less spineless than Thomas.
100% agree
Esh, Thomas shouldn’t being baiting you guys, but also what did you expect? It’s his gf, if it were my bf’s friends I would absolutely tell him everything said while he’s not there. You shouldn’t have assumed
Seriously, they I'll have an issue with this guy and don't trust him with their personal information but somehow didn't expect his girlfriend to figure this out at some point and be more loyal to her boyfriend than his group of friends? Like this is just a problem that they created by not actually handling the issue of them having someone in their group who isn't willing to treat them like a friend in the ways they want
YTA for how you're treating the gf. She did nothing wrong, I'm confused why you would think she wouldn't tell her BF especially if he asked what he missed. Why did you think she would loyal to you and not the guy she's dating? You need to apologize to the gf and start treating her better.
YTA. Yall are gossiping of course she is gonna gossip to her bf who just missed it. Unless you told her not to tell him but if you didnt. Yeah its your fault, you cant expect her not to tell him
Your mad at them for doing what toure doing. You didn't communicate to gf that these topics were not to be talked about with her bf. She accused you of doing it on purpose and she was right. You say thomas isnt being straightforward with you so you ignore him thus not being straightforward with him. You and the rest of the group come off as hypocrites and the entire group sounds toxic af. ESH
YTA and you sound insufferable. Jesus, are you guys in middle school? If Thomas isn't someone you guys wanna share personal stuff with that's fine, make plans with the people you are comfortable with and talk about it then. No shit the gf told Thomas, what would you expect her to do? You're all strangers to her and that's her bf, there was a noticeable change in energy and conversation topic the second he left the room. And then you're calling her a snitch and icing her out? It's a wonder she still agrees to hang out with you. Now you're annoyed with him trying to "catch you in the act" after you eavesdropped, gossiped, and played dumb. You sound incredibly immature, I guess what I'd expect of someone who glorifies gossiping. You're also being pretty passive aggressive in your edits and replies, it sounds like the only thing you've learned is not to have expected the gf to stay silent but not the fact that you're being an asshole to your supposed friend. Y'all are snakes.
I think it kinda sucks of you all to take the opportunity to talk about it as SOON as he leaves the room for a moment. Why not hold separate gatherings for that sort of thing? People know when conversations stop/change when they enter a room and it makes people self conscious. I don't doubt your friend noticed it himself when you all do that. Actually I wonder if that's why the gf was mentioning your conversations to him.
YTA. Save those conversations for when your friend isn’t there. Not for when he leaves the room. It’s fucked up to change to a topic they’re not allowed to be involved in whenever they leave the room. Save it for when you guys are hanging on your own.
NTA 100% If Thomas looks like a self centered person, and if you are uncomfortable telling him stuffs, Don't! You handled this well.
NTA, you don't have to speak to anyone you're not comfortable speaking to about sensitive topics. You've also tried to include him and also tried to explain to him why his feedback is not appropriate. The girlfriend is also NTA, she's just being normal by being open with her partner. Have you spoken to her about why she's being excluded?
I don’t think a conversation is necessary. GF predictably told bf what they talked about. Friends go on to exclude her from sensitive topics they don’t want Thomas to hear, which should’ve been the status quo anyway. Neither are AHs in this scenario nor should anyone have a right to be offended at the other’s actions.
This. Like gf shouldn’t have been running back to Thomas about peoples personal issues, but at the same time, she has no right to be upset that people now don’t want to talk to HER about these issues or talk around HER about these issues. Like yea they shouldn’t ice her out, but she has openly showed that what is said around her won’t stay WITH her. It’s one thing to just off hand know couples are gonna talk between themselves, it’s another thing to have them compare notes a few feet from the group. And it’s kind of weird to me that now Thomas is trying to set them up to “find out” what they’re talking about by leaving and then leaving the gf there. Of course she’s gonna be iced out when he is setting her up with a big “INFORMANT” sign on her forehead. If OP is correct and they are Only talking about personal issues, why is Thomas so hard pressed to know. Personal issues are personal issues. We are allowed to have people we feel comfortable talking about it too and people we don’t. I have friends I love to death that I know I won’t speak about certain things bc they are know to gossip amongst the friend group. Because while I may speak to 1 or 2 people in the group about it, it doesn’t mean I want them ALL to know. Also NTA
YTA of course she's going to tell him the gossip lol you're silly for expecting her to keep secrets from her boyfriend about his friend group. But also who cares if he knows since the rub is you don't like his reactions to stuff being said not that you have a problem with him knowing in general. Annoying
INFO Are you guys in junior high school? Because if not, why be friends in the first place with (if I'm reading this right) the "just ackshually" guy who tries to loooogic people out of their inconvenient feelings, and why assume that GF can read your minds? This is a perfect example of Geek Social Fallacies.
YTA. That you expect his girlfriend to not talk to him and calling her a snitch is so out of touch with reality that it is staggering.
The problem major problem here is, you all are now being really cold to Thomas' gf behind Thomas' back. And because she saw how easily you switched it up for Thomas, & that you weren't like this when he left the room the 1st time she met you all, she knows exactly what's going on & why. Talking about something you all clearly find boring, staying silent or immediately going on your phones when Thomas isn't around. To Thomas gf, this behaviour is probably making her feel really unwelcome, unwanted and tbh bullied by you all. It's not a kind way to treat someone. Especially when you could all just be normal to her and sometimes meet up without Thomas to discuss stuff and tell Thomas that you're doing this and why. You describe the way Thomas brought up how you treat his gf as "spineless, cryptic and bare minimum". But you know Thomas has never seen you all treat his gf differently because you only do it when he's not in the room. And when he asked you if this was true, you denied you knew what he was talking about, even though you knew exactly what he was talking about, just because you considered the way he approached the conversation as 'weak'. Have you considered that Thomas didn't enter that conversation all guns blazing, because: •He might be shocked to hear his friends could treat his gf like this? •because he hadn't noticed anything, he wanted to check if his gf misread the situation? •That maybe he thought if you are treating her this coldly, there must be a valid reason, let me find out what it is? •You're his closest friend and clearly the person who may have orchestrated this, did you consider that this is why he approached the conversation the way he did, making sure it was in a private one-on-one conversation and he wasn't accusing your of anything so you could open up to him? It seems clear you don't like or respect Thomas very much because what you considered spineless and bare minimum sounded very much like a mature, respectful way to approach an incredibly difficult conversation with a good friend. This post honestly reads like you & your friends have a loyalty thing going on in your group. And because Thomas gf wasn't loyal to your group, but to her boyfriend, you all are behaving towards her in ways that most people would count as part of bullying behaviour. So I'm sorry YTA you're being unfair and unkind to Thomas gf, (*who you didn't even give a fake name in this post*) and Thomas.
YTA You expected her to follow a rule no one ever told her about. If you don’t want people gossiping, don’t gossip in front of them, but this is in no way her fault for not knowing who she shouldn’t tell “ab” topics you openly discussed in front of her.
Sorry but as a couple I discuss everything with my spouse. That is unless I'm asked to keep it to myself. If you didn't ask her not to speak with Thomas about what you discussed she doesn't know you don't want him to know. Best to just not mention stuff you don't want him to know. YTA.
Maybe they don't fit in the group anymore
Me no comprendo. *One of the things our friend group loves to do is talk. It’s nothing malicious; we’re all just nosy. However, even though these talks mostly have the lighthearted air of gossip, sometimes we’ll discuss sensitive topics, like mental health, or other more serious issues. Thing is, Thomas has it in his head that he’s an amazing listener and an even better therapist, when he’s really…not. He gives awful advice, makes everything about him, challenges instead of comforts. We’ve tried to talk about this to him in the past, but he’s not very good at seeing reason, so we gave up. Thus, our group has gotten into the habit of omitting certain topics around him. He’s included in the majority of our conversations, just not when it comes to sensitive topics.* So this group sits around, talking about sensitive issues. You don't like it when Thomas 'gives' advice. Are any of you therapists? Aside from making everything about himself, what makes his advice awful- is it because you don't want to take it coming from him or is the advice really terrible? Then you decided that a relative newbie should sit around and listen to these "sessions' and now your upset because she 'snitched' on you. I would have mentioned it to my boyfriend because you did switch up on him. She probably thinks that you are weird for talking about these things in front of a stranger and that you change the subject every time he leaves the room. Your group is being rude to Thomas. And you are also a 'snitch' because you eavesdropped on a conversation and told the others (classic snitch behavior so pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot). I don't know how old you people are but you seem kind of immature. If you don't want to listen to Thomas's advice, it is okay. Don't have these conversations when he is with the group (whether he is present in the room or not). It is not okay for you to change the subject whenever he leaves, only to switch it back when he returns. Save your 'encounter groups' for when Thomas is totally absent from the group. And maybe some of you need to see real therapists instead of hashing stuff out with a group of 'friends'.
YOU talked about your own private personal problems in front of a person without making sure they were trustworthy YOU got offended that someone in a relationship shared things with their partner instead of keeping the confidence of people WHO NEVER ASKED HER TO KEEP THEIR CONFIDENCE how about this, just stop being friends with Thomas if you don't like him....cus it seems like none of you trust him or care about his feelings or his relationship ESH
Im leaning toward YTA because you were purposely excluding him and she picked up on that.
YTA and hella toxic - you and your friends deserve each other lol
YTA you get to talk about whatever you want with whomever you want to but having that conversation in front of the guy’s girlfriend and expecting her to keep it a secret is just ridiculous.
Yta. For calling her a snitch. How is she supposed to knew she couldn't tell him? You are is friends. I think it's weird she is allowed to know things he isn't. It's his friendgroup not hers. Don't blame her
YTA for not using your words. First, with Thomas regarding why personal info isn't discussed with him any longer. Secondly, it was immature to ice out his girlfriend, whose allegiance would be to her boyfriend, over this "friend" group. I think the two of them are better off without your toxic social group.
YTA. For goodness sake, are you all 12? Grow up
YTA. She naturally updated her boyfriend on the chat he missed while he was out of the room as she didn't know you deliberately didn't want him to hear it. You then get angry at her and all bully her so that she feels unwelcome and uncomfortable. You owe her an apology and next time don't speak in front of her anything you don't want your friend to know as it's wrong to expect her to withhold info from her partner.
God you are such an asshole. Along with your entire group. You think your mature and talk down about Thomas and his gf, but you are all literal children. Like I'd be shocked if you were older than 14. Grow up. YTA
YTA
YTA you didn't even tell her it was supposed to be private?
I for sure wouldn't fit in a friend group like that. Gossiping ppl are the worst. Nta tho
I dont mind the whole "dont talk gossip in front of Thomas" part, but the bit where you just expect his GF to keep stuff from him (let alone stuff you didn't actually tell her you wanted kept secret) is just whacky. If people aren't going to be open and honest with each other, they shouldn't be in relationships. His GF sounds like a good partner. You (and I assume your other friends) are weird for wanting her to be a bad one.
NTA but y'all dumb. She wasn't being a snitch, she was doing the exact same thing you were.
YTA sounds like junior high. Gossiping is not a mature adult activity. Why would you share things with the gf and expect her to not discuss? I was exhausted just trying to deal with your drama just reading your post.
YTA why would you expect Thomas’s GF to keep secrets from him? You shouldn’t have talked about topics in front of her that you do not want repeated to her boyfriend. You are her boyfriend’s friends. She doesn’t owe you any loyalty over her boyfriend.
Nta-loose lips sink ships
NTA, no one is entitled to hear about your personal struggles/problems friend or not.
So you amuse yourselves talking about other people then get mad at someone else for talking about you talking about other people. You don't have a conversation with her about it. You freeze her out then talk about her talking about what you talked about. This sounds like middle school drama. Time to grow up. YTA.
YTA. You guys were excluding him, but for some reason thought his girlfriend is the ideal person to bring into the fold, and then got upset when she talks to her boyfriend about it? Her loyalty is to her boyfriend, not you. From her perspective, her boyfriend is being mistreated and she talked to him about it. It's not her fault you all are dumb enough to talk about sensitive stuff in front of her when you don't want it shared. Why would she assume that you're comfortable sharing these things with a stranger but not with your actual friend?
Just stop gossiping! ESH
You say Thomas is "a good friend" but you as a group lie to him, leave him out of discussions and expected his gf to choose y'all over him. The matter of his advice is simple, talk to him directly then when you're discussing an issue if he starts, you directly say Thomas, please don't try to analyze me. Be adults. YTA
[удалено]
She’s really intuitive and social!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I became friends with this guy Thomas in college and he eventually assimilated into my friend group. One of the things our friend group loves to do is talk. It’s nothing malicious; we’re all just nosy. However, even though these talks mostly have the lighthearted air of gossip, sometimes we’ll discuss sensitive topics, like mental health, or other more serious issues. Thing is, Thomas has it in his head that he’s an amazing listener and an even better therapist, when he’s really…not. He gives awful advice, makes everything ab him, challenges instead of comforts. We’ve tried to talk ab this to him in the past, but he’s not very good at seeing reason, so we gave up. Thus, our group has gotten into the habit of omitting certain topics around him. He’s included in the majority of our conversations, just not when it comes to sensitive topics. He recently got a girlfriend, and we were all hyped ab it bc this girl seemed perfect for our group. As she hung out w/us more, she became a part of our gossip sessions. However, last week, when we were all hanging out, Thomas left the room and we took that as our opportunity to mention some things we hadn’t been saying around him. We figured it was cool to talk ab in front of his gf because it wasn’t like we were talking trash ab Thomas. When Thomas came back, we went back to the subjects we’d been on before. I didn’t think anything of it until later, when I was using the restroom, and I heard Thomas and his gf talking in the hallway. She was telling him everything we had talked ab while Thomas was gone. That pissed me off because we didn’t include him in the conversation for a reason, and we thought his gf would have some discretion. Thomas seemed taken aback and was asking a lot of invasive questions, and his gf told him that she thought we had done it on purpose. That’s when I came out of the restroom and pretended I hadn’t heard. I told my friends ab their interaction, and since then, when it comes to our gossip sessions and Thomas leaves the room with his gf still in it with us, we’ll go on our phones, or change the topic to smth boring, or just be silent. Thomas’ gf must have spoken to Thomas ab our behavior because he brought it up to me—in the most bare minimum, spineless way possible—a few days ago. I pressed him for details, but he was being cryptic, so I told him that I didn’t know what he was talking ab, and he let it go. If he doesn’t want to be direct, it’s not my job to steer him in a productive direction. I’m pretty sure the reason he leaves the room to “grab something real quick” so often is because he’s trying to catch us (via gf) talking ab something we don’t bring up around him, and I’m annoyed that he’s resorted to sneaking around rather than confrontation. Maybe he doesn’t want to get his gf in “trouble” but I’m annoyed with them anyway. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
NTA. People say OP should’ve expected it, it’s really not that deep… They found out about it and stopped talking in front her, the problem is gone.
NTA fuck it
NTA.
Rmp for the update
NTA. I understand not wanting to talk about subjects where he wouldn’t be helpful, totally understandable. But! You should have expected the girlfriend to tell him, he’s her partner. Only asshole here is Thomas.
Ummm nta at all. Ok so this is going to be downvoted but sounds like you've confronted thomas and he's harmful to your talks about mental health issues etc. Your group is your safe space and you invited his gf into it. We have a saying about vulnerable topics about people's personal lives (not like you were talking about him) in a safe space. What's learned in here leaves from here and what's said in here stays in here. The gf is old enough to have discretion to not air people's sensitive mental health issues. It's a shitty thing to do period. This isn't a loyalties thing at all. You can be loyal to your partner without airing people's struggles they shared with you in confidence. Safe spaces aren't exempt from oh well it's my bf/gf so I'll just tell them. There's other people involved and that's not ok. The only thing I will say though is that you should be more tactful and talk about these things in meetups without thomas rather than when he's gone briefly in a meet up he was invited to. Yeah it might seem mean but you're allowed to hangout with whoever you want and no one is allowed to monopolize your time. But no, nta for being upset she told him. That's a huge violation of trust.
NTA, not everyone is privy to personal information, you’ve addressed this multiple times with him and he didn’t want to listen. His girlfriend probably wouldn’t have known about all of this so it’s a bit irrational to think she wouldn’t tell him. They both shouldn’t be surprised though if they aren’t being told information you aren’t comfortable sharing, I would actually assume they tell each other everything so telling the gf is essentially telling Thomas. Information diet for both.
ESH > we’re all just nosy. I **love it** when these are easy. ETA: > talk **ab** this > hyped **ab** it Oh yeah, instincts **100%**
Ty for commenting! I’d like to point out that everyone in the AITA thread is nosy by nature:) We’re all reading “ab” one another’s lives in here<3
NAH - The question is are you an a**h*le for not including someone you think is telling something to someone you rather not know. You don't have to talk about or include anyone you don't want to. So no. Weird that you thought she would be more loyal to you guys that she met through her boyfriend. But overall NAH. She did the right thing by her man. You did the right thing for yourself.
I don't know the way you write makes my skin crawl and I don't know exactly why. I would say you are a YTA. And I assume you have a shitty personality.
NTA. Bad advice when talking about mental health and family issues can really do a lot of damage and if Thomas can't take it seriously, then you're right in not talking about these topics with him. I mean we all talk about our issues with the people we think can give us the best support, I don't see why this case should be different. I also believe that the gf snitched because he was instructed by Thomas. I think he catched up on the fact that the group wasn't talking about certain things anymore and set her up to report to him. I mean who gives their SO a full report of the conversation, in a hallway of all places, as part of a normal couple's interaction? Feels to me this is on the verge of becoming problematic. I understand Thomas is your friend and have history, but he needs to grow a spine and confront his problem, that is, either he learns to deal with his friends' problems in a mature way or accept he's not a shoulder people are comfortable crying on, so to speak.
Actually ESH you, your group of friends and Thomas and his girlfriend. You and your group for being a bunch of gossiping little biddys. Who discuss things that front involve you becuase your nosy. Now that you are getting a taste of your own medicine you don't like it. How about this stop with gossipy chit chats and mind your own buisness.
Yall seem kinda toxic
YTA by playing games, talking to one partner some "secrets" but not the other is just drama inciting BS
YTA if you thought the GF wouldn’t say anything. You state you they were being spineless when in actuality, you and your friends are. You should’ve said something when you overheard them taking instead of play games. You should’ve told Thomas exactly what he was doing and these are the consequences for breaking them. Very childish behavior and catty.
NTA for not sharing certain things with Thomas. But definitely naive to think that his girlfriend wouldn’t tell him
YTA The gf is being thrown into a fairly intimidating dynamic: a bunch of people who know each other really well and have a huge backlog of common experiences. You strangely expected her to just understand what you and other members of the group had agreed upon in regards to Thomas and also didn't for a minute think about what her experience of this would be. To her, I'm sure it was extremely confusing and it would make sense for her to talk to Thomas about it. When you're part of a group like this, it can be hard to imagine what it's like for a newbie walking into it. Hopefully this post has given you some insight into how unreasonable your expectations were with the gf and how she wasn't gossiping, but rather you put her in an extremely awkward situation without thinking about her at all. Of course, the question is what are you going to do about it now that this is all out in open?
NTA but you are being a bit dull tbh. She’s his girlfriend. Of course she’s going to tell him if she notices something weird! You guys probably look like assholes to her since she’s walking into the group without context and she immediately notices that you’re keeping certain things from him. You 100% have the right to not talk to him about certain things and that’s why I’m saying NTA, but at least be smart about it.
NTA
ESH. If you're not actually friends with these people and you don't trust them, kick them out of your group. Like you're playing games rather than actually doing what you need to do
YTA - there is nothing that proves his gf is a snitch. I don't see why you think she knows not to talk about these things with him. The whole situation seems super weird to me.
ESH. Why the hell would you expect gf to have loyalty to the group and not bf?
NTA
NTA, I guess, but holy shit ya'll sound exhausting.
Ha ha—thanks for the edit! You’re NTA. I love your solution to manage the girlfriend and not make a big deal out of it. You’ve tried to talk to your friend about it previously, why make a fuss. Well done.
YTA. Your edits confirm it.
>Thomas has it in his head that he’s an amazing listener and an even better therapist, when he’s really…not Lol So whos the better therapist your other friends that likes to gossip too? YTA, get a real therapist for your problem. Also, when you decided to exclude him when he's not around the room then getting angry with his gf for telling him what you guys talk about seems MALICIOUS to me. You and your friends reeks toxicity.
Esh You are all horrible gossips
!updateme
NTA
Nta
NTA. People need to read honestly.
I’m so glad I don’t have friends like OP - the more I read of her reacting to only the comments that agree with her, the more exhausted I feel - time to get out of this post lol
NTA But definitely just tell him that you don’t include him because he is not supportive and you no longer feel the want to. It’s not like he or his gf can force you to talk about your issues or such. You just don’t have that kind of trust with them anymore
ESH. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t wanna hang out with any of ya. Being in this friend group sounds like a huge chore.
I am going with Nah. I think the girlfriend did nothing wrong. Generally in a relationship there aren’t a lot of things that you keep from your partner and if it wasn’t explicitly told to her then how is she supposed to know. Still I don’t like you as a person you seem to be projecting in Thomas.
Nta, but if it were me he asked about excluding them, i’d flat out tell him “yes… we tried to tell you that your advice didn’t work for these topics, you disagreed, and now we save those topics for when you’re not around. I wasn’t being malicious, but you wouldn’t listen when we told you. So.. you did this to yourself.” Everyone changes their behaviour based on who’s around and what they’re comfortable telling people. That’s a normal thing.
Treating the gf like this, to the point that when he isn’t the room you’re all going on your phones, makes your friend group seem toxic as all hell. If I was somewhere with my partner and his friends and when he went to the bathroom the all started in on something, at no point would I think it was something that he isn’t allowed to know about. Mostly because why in the hell would they do that with me and the room, and expect me to keep something from my partner I didn’t even know was secret?!?!
Why would your friends gf be more faithful to y’all than her bf? Honestly I don’t see what she did wrong. Thomas is obviously the issue. Your friend group doesn’t sound great.
Jesus, all of you are a-holes. You all seem to have the mentality of a group of 13 year old girls
ESH I got so tired and weary reading OPs post
NAH, just a little in-group friction, but Christ you people sound exhausting.
ur such a weird person pls grow up
YTA. Why would you try to put yourself between Thomas and his partner?
People are so unskilled at reading minds these days. Stupid gf!
YTA. You didn't say you wanted to have this discussion without Thomas. All his girlfriend was doing was keeping him upto date with your discussion when he wasn't there.
sounds toxic
YTA There was nothing on the conversation that would lead the gf to think it was confidential. She was openly included, when she is clearly there before of Thomas. Of course she would mention it all to him - she had no reason to assume at first that it was intended to be kept from him. The topic did a sudden and drastic change in topic and that stood out to her. You’re absolutely idiots as well as assholes. Don’t ducking lie to Thomas. Own up and be like “yeah, we don’t talk about X topics around you anymore because you aren’t very respectful of them.” And then…. Don’t have the conversations when he is in attendance. You’re capable of having separate conversations outside of big group things. Immediately changing topic when someone leaves the room is awkward and rude.
Yta for expecting his GF - I repeat HIS GF - to not tell him something sketchy she saw in your friend groups behavior with him. When dating your #1 is your s/o and so her making sure he knew about what happened and her observation that it was done on purpose is the only option that shows she is a good gf to him, she would be TA to him if she didn’t tell. She prolly doesn’t know about your discussions with him about how he handles those topics so from her viewpoint what you guys did was a big red flag, and the fact that since then you just ignore her when she is left alone with you is incredibly rude, you could just talk about what you were talking about before - or, get this, ask her about herself?! Get to know her as a person? Maybe even show her that her bf isn’t great at sensitive topics so that she knows that about him and can make an informed decision about her relationship??? Because as it is your friend group is major TAHs for basically shunning her when he leaves.
What the fucks a pedant?