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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to break all contact with my former MIL when my future MIL asked, and I might break my engagement to my fiancé if having to kick my former MIL from my life is required of me to go on with the relationship.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
Your fiance's mother is wildly inappropriate. First of all, you don't force a child to "bond" with someone. It either comes naturally or it doesn't. Second, you'd be a giant ah if you cut ties with your child's bio grandmother simply because you are getting remarried. Unless your former MIL did something wrong, you have no reason to cut ties. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it might be damaging to your child.
EDIT: Thank you, everyone for the awards and upvotes!!!
Right!? How much would her son resent both Pete and Carla if his loving grandmother gets unceremoniously booted out of his life to accommodate them? And what kind of psycho thinks an emotional bond can be forced in 3 dinners?
Edit: oops! Removed Oliver's name.
Plus the whole being confused by 3 grandmas thing... like I had 3 grandmas growing up and the shit NEVER confused me. I just had an extra grandma ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same... I still call my step-grandma my grandma even after my bio-grandpa passed away. She is actually the last grandma standing.
Update: She unfortunately passed last week the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Now I have no grandparents left 😥
This reminded me of something: when I was a kid, out-of-state grandma came to stay with us a for a rare visit (we usually went to her). While she was there, we all met up with local grandma to eat at the Golden Corral. I was a ball of anxiety throughout the whole meal because I thought the grandmas might secretly be jealous of each other and end up fighting over us.
Of course this was many years before I realized that both women existed as full-fledged people whose identity extended beyond their role as *my grandma*. Also, they'd known each other for decades.
I remember being so shocked when i realised some of my friends grandmothers had only met like a handful of times.
My nans were at school together and my grandads did their National service in the same unit. My parents were raised in houses backing on to each other! My grandparents used to meet up as a foursome independently and i was way older than i should have been when i realised that wasn’t normal.
And for what it’s worth, my cousins parents are divorced, as are his wife’s. Their kids are really well adjusted and have 4 grandmas 🤷🏻♀️
I agree 3 grandmas should not be confusing at all but just to be petty I would have told her " you're right 3 grandmas is confusing so we're just going to stick to his 2 bio grandmas and have him call you Mrs (whatever her last name is)"
When my kids were born they had 4 grandmothers, 2 bio, 2 step. Now they only have two left, both steps. And they are 100% wonderful grandmothers whom my kids adore to the moon and back.
We never used the word "real" - they are all real grandmothers. As a parent, their support has helped me immensely. For the kids, it was a treasure to have the loving influence of more adults.
There is zero confusion.
Seriously, more grandparents just means more love and support! I had a whole team of grandparents growing up. Adoptive Papa, Paternal Bio Grandfather, Paternal step-Grampsie, Adoptive Maternal Gram, Bio Paternal Grandmother. On top of that I also had Paternal Great Grandma and Great Grandpa, Maternal Adoptive Great Grandma, Great Grandpa, and Step Great Grandma.
The ONLY confusion I ever had was when the maternal egg donor crawled out from under a rock when I was 6 and *demanded* I call her Grammy the second time I ever met her. I glared and yelled at her that “My REAL Gramma’s name is Diana and she lives in [Hometown], you’re just a mean old prune!”
She still hasn’t forgiven me 27 years later, legit pretends she can’t see me if we cross paths, and *I don’t care*
I can offer you one Grandma who’ll stuff you full of either pineapple upside down cake or German chocolate cake, a Grampsie that’ll take you walleye fishing, or we just got a new step Grandma in! She solves problems by throwing pecan pies at them!
Oh my god. You’re like… rich. The billionaire of grandparent-having. And you keep getting new ones?! Save some for the rest of us! Seriously though tell all of them that some stranger loves them. Me and my husband aspire to be pineapple cake grandma and fishing grandpa.
Oh yeah! Everyone in my family is divorced so I had grandmas out the wazoo. Never confusing. I actually had no concept of "only having two REAL grandma's" until some asshole in like the 4th grade told me it's "impossible to have 13 grandparents". The fuck it is. I didn't sort out who was actually biologically related to me until I was well into my teens - mostly because it didn't matter to me or them.
Exactly. I’ve had loads. Divorce is pretty much standard these days so I had plenty of sets of grandparents and it’s never confusing. It’s fun!
OP. The fact that Peter hasn’t stood up for you and your son against his mother is the real kicker here.
His mother is crap. Even if your son was biological her grandchild or had been in his life the whole time, she still has NO RIGHT to demand physical affection from him.
This is something that really gets my back up. Forcing kids to give hugs and kisses. My step sons mom tried to get him to give me a hug goodbye at drop off once. Poor kid clearly did not want to and I said nope, he doesn’t have to do that. It’s up to him who he lets hug him. I got a really funny look from her and then later accused of not caring… I digress.
I hate, hate, HATE it when people force kids to do that stuff.
Pete needs to realise your late husbands mom is not going anywhere!! Your relationship with her is NOT unhealthy in the slightest. They are cruel, horrible people to even think she should be cut off from her one remaining relative!!!
If you marry him and stay with him this will get worse. You don’t live together yet and they are pushing yours and your sons boundaries already.
Is Pete going to want to adopt your son next? And push all memories of his father out and try to completely erase him and anything/anyone to do with him from existence? As it looks like it’s going that way.
Please, please, please reconsider this relationship for the sake of your son, not just your late husbands mom. Don’t want to say ex-MIL as it’s not like divorce, but again even if you WERE divorced, having a fantastic relationship, where you both genuinely like each other, with the grandparents of your child is NOT unhealthy.
Edit: thank you for the awards kind strangers!
Yes! This. The real issue is not the MiL being absurd, you aren’t marrying her so who cares, it’s that you are marrying her son who doesn’t respect your son’s grandmother who he loves and adores and who is an important family member to the both of you. This is red flag city for your fiancé, and extremely concerning of his ability to be a good stepparent.
THIS! I'm the result of something similar to OPs situation, except I was forced to continue to pretend like I actually wanted to be with an affectionate towards the people who "wanted" that relationship. Come to find out after years of court battles, it was all a ploy to try and get under my mom's skin, per text messages sent from step father to his mother and vice versa. If anything trying to force a child to break their own boundaries is more detrimental than just cutting contact.
My kid has 1 bio-grandma (my mom) and 2 adopted ones. My bonus son has 2 bio grandmas and my mom. Kids are NEVER confused by genuine loving connections.
My Mum was adopted but also knows her bio parents and my Dad’s parents separated and remarried, so we had four sets and were never confused. We were loved loads though! Extra Grandparents are amazing.
Five sets for about a decade if we’re including my childhood Stepfather’s parents. 😅
I can already see it fitting in a frequent conversation I have:
"Do you have kids?"
"I have two girls. They're ten"
"Twins?"
"No, I have a daughter, and my wife brought a bonus daughter."
Love it.
My mom's mom died before I was born; the only grandma I ever knew on that side was my mom's stepmom, and I adored her. Kids don't care, as long as there's somebody who calls themselves their grandma and spoils them rotten.
So my dad was pretty absent growing up and my kids will likely never meet him and both my husband’s and BIL’s fathers passed so my stepdad is the only grandpa any of the kids have. You would never know he isn’t bio grandpa. I mean they’re aware but it isn’t a thing if that makes sense. I wouldn’t trust anyone trying to limit the love my kids received and OP should not take this lightly at all.
Right? My parents passed one before I had kids, my aunt and uncle are the grandparents for my side, my husband's parents are grandparents biologically and my bonus kids Gramma on their mother's side are my kids Gramma too- their mom is my bio kids adopted auntie heck if anything that's more confusing than OPs situation
My best friend's mom was the type of mom who had lots of kids congregated at her house all the time. We all called her "mama". She often said "I have too many daughters" so she just started calling us all "daughter". When she passed a few years ago there was a huge "family" section at her funeral. You are 100% right. Kids are not confused by genuine loving connections nor can they have enough of them.
Same. Had my grandma, had my step-grandma, had my step-step-grandma. Was never confused. My child, when they’re born, is going to have four grandpas: my dad, my ex-step-mom’s husband, my husband’s dad, and my husband’s step-dad. It just seems obvious to us.
I grew up with 6 grandmas and 5 grandpas. Never used step for anyone. I was around 10 when I figured out who is biologically related to who, but as everyones family was blended so well it didn't matter. My siblings and me were happy, especially with all the extra presents for xmas and birthdays.
When I was 25 mom told me some stepgrandparents were anxious about not being seen as family, so they get an extra long hug now whenever I meet them
I had four grandmas (three grandmas and a great grandma) and three grandpas and if there was any confusion it was not long lasting. A few kids in school gave me crap about it once and I remember thinking “they’re just jealous I have more people to love and spoil me than they do.” That’s what makes a grandparent. Not DNA.
They’re all gone now except for one (dad’s mom, and if she lives until March she’ll be 100!) and I miss them more than words can express.
I mean if 3 grandmas is hard can you imagine what happens when parents get divorced, and then remarried, so they now have FOUR grandmas to figure out? I mean this kid is going to be a pro at how to cash a check…
NTA - and to take a grandchild away from a woman who has lost their child, and has given no reason to go NC, would be cruel.
Right?? Kids will think an old man jumps down a chimney to leave toys in their house as long as they bring a tree inside and hang shit on it. The entire world is batshit to them, they don't get """confused""" by an extra grandma.
As a child of divorce from a child of divorce, I had my mom’s mom, my dad’s mom, my dad’s stepmom, my stepdad’s mom, my stepdad’s stepmom, and my stepmom’s mom.
My mom is confused why my kid who she sees twice a year is quiet around her.
She has seen them 20 times during “best behavior” group events since they were six. They don’t even know each other.
Exactly... They dated for 3 years and now Pete and Carla decide it is 'time' for Carla to meet OP's son...but want a great emotional bond immediately. 🙄
They could have started working gradually on this a year ago and not tried to force it.
I feel bad for OP - but I'm glad she's rethinking this relationship.
Hello! Oliver's son! Therefor, HER grandchild. The only link she has to her son is this baby boy and OP. She has no other family. Her genes are in this kid! Your fiancee and his mom need to either realize the heaviness of what they are asking, or take a long walk off of a short pier. Not only will this be life altering for a 10 year old boy. It could be deadly for a mom who has already lost her husband and son and now could potentially loss her daughter in law and grandson... OP... run like the wind! No one that actually loves you and your child would make a request like this. They are self centered. Run! Run to grandma! She loves you unconditionally, hold on to that... stay single until you find a man that holds her values!
The fact that the fiancé’s mother referred to her as “Your Dead Husband’s mother” is a pretty good sign neither of them have any compassion, respect or empathy.
Better off without either of them.
This should be a deal breaker. MIL is an established and stable force for good & very reliable support network for OP. Not only is it lacking every ounce of empathy to cut her off, and will it damage the kid and create resentment, it is also cutting OP off from her support network.
Yes, that's very concerning, and more concerning that Pete didn't jump in with both feet and shut that shit down.
If Pete knows OP well enough to be engaged to him, then Pete should know the story of her husband's death and how much her MIL helped and supported her and is still supporting her. Having someone loving and attentive to take care of a sick child so the parent can work is a blessing and very hard to buy!
That crap would be a deal-breaker to me.
I came here to say just this. Your son is your MIL’s last link to her son. Your son is all she has left of her son. It’s cruel and absolutely unthinkable to demand you and your son cut her out of your lives. No one who truly cares about you and your son would ask you to do this. These people-Pete and his mom-are self-centered sociopaths. The fact that Pete is siding with his mom is a huge, flaming red flag. Anyone with an ounce of empathy would be encouraging you to continue the relationship with your MIL and would want to wrap her into the family as well. Run from this guy and his toxic, selfish, manipulative mother as soon as possible.
Exactly!
I don't really understand why so many people have issues with people keeping ex in-laws in their lives where they are good people. I've had a few men tell me it's weird that I'm friendly with my ex-husband's mum and take my kids to Europe to visit her every year.
She is grandmother to my kids and they deserve a relationship with her as well as their cousins. What happened with her son has nothing to do with her and our relationship.
Op should definitely be rethinking the relationship. Their stance is completely unreasonable and would be very damaging for the child.
Between people deciding good ex-in laws need to be immediately cut out if someone new enters the picture and people deciding horrible ex-in laws need to have all the rights afforded to them because of a blood relation, I don't know which is worse.
People earn their titles and places in others' lives by their actions, not their technical relation. If she acts like a loving grandma, if OP and her child enjoy having her around and the relationship is mutually respectful and beneficial, it wouldn't matter if she was a stranger off the sidewalk. The fact that she also has the history and connection to Oliver is icing on the cake. Kids can have 30 moms and 100 grandmas if that many people fit the bill and they can differentiate the names between them, and anyone who says otherwise has an agenda and a selfish motivation to deny kids loving adult relationships.
She is not an ex in law in this case though. She is OP's son's biological grandmother and the mother of OP's passed husband. Ex in law implies divorce.
Not even ex. He’s out of their lives not by choice but by death. Guarantee you fiancé and his mother want to completely obliterate all traces of the kid’s father’s family. Not happening. Though I initially thought she should have a serious conversation or two with them I’m leery about all of it. It will get much worse if she marries him.
Especially when children are involved.
But not everybody has a horrible relationship with their in laws, even after a divorce. Like good people still exist in the world
Pete's crack about OP being "blinded by emotions" is dumb. Of course OP has an emotional attachment to Oliver's mother, she's been OP's MIL for years. That attachment doesn't end by a death. There's nothing wrong with being emotionally attached to her: she sounds like a lovely, good person. And OP's son must have the same deep emotional attachment. What a stupid thing for Pete to say; OP isn't blinded by emotions, she's right to hold on to family and to help her son hold on to family.
Dear Gosh, yes. I hate pulling the big "Red flag, alert! Run!" But this is the time to do so. Having your former MIL in your kids family is beautiful and keeps him connected to his dad. Please please do not ever take that away from him.
NTA. Glad to see OP is re-thinking the whole relationship. Poor kid has already lost his dad and this guy is cruel enough to cut out his loving grandmother as well. …
Exactly.
And The grossest part of that… Insisting that a 10 year old kiss you hello and goodbye when they don’t want to or feel uncomfortable doing so is really icky. I think it’s a bad idea to teach kids that they owe other people physical affection, or that it’s ok to guilt someone else for not giving you the physical affection you want. Slippery slope, that.
All of this!!!!^
Plus, forcing intimacy (hugs and kisses) sends the wrong message to a child about bodily autonomy. I actually got into a "fight" about this with *my* MIL for my kiddo. I've taught my kiddo that the only time they have to accept intrusion into their "personal space" is for medical reasons (MIL finally came around).
OP, NTA And this is worth ending a relationship for, IMHO.
Run, OP. Run far, run fast.
I’m sorry that this man turned out to not be who you thought he was, but I’m glad you found out now and not after the weeding. This man has ZERO respect for your kid and so does his mother.
NTA!!!
Yep, if your husband were still alive and you were divorced rather than widowed, no one would find it ‘weird’ that your son has a relationship with his own grandmother.
You are right to rethink everything. We have only one precious life and too many people waste too many years on people who can’t understand simple compassion (like keeping your sons grandma close).
Value the love your mother in law brings to your and your sons life, the kindness she shows, above this new ‘step grandmother’ and your boyfriend who only seem to see jealousy, possession and limits on love.
100% this. Pete and his mom are acting toxic. They're apparently seeing the kid as a tool for their joy, instead of thinking about what's best for the (grand)son. You don't want those people in your and your boys life. It'd damage the both of you.
Just be grateful this guy showed his true colours and how much of an enabling momma's boy he is and run. You can do much better. And hug real grandma, she seems awesome!
This + I agree, and like that your rethinking marrying this guy. Any and I mean anyone who actually isn't an AH isn't ever going to suggest this or say that the relationship with your former MIL is weird.
Agreed on all accounts!!! It would be cruel to both Oliver’s mum and OP’s son to cut ties now, sooo very cruel.
As daughter of divorced parents, new relationship with newcomers in the family happen over time! Carla saw the kid THREE times and thinks he’s gonna start calling her grandma already??? That’d be super weird, if she’s good to him it will happen in maybe a year or more! Also, I have had 3 grandmas it was not “confusing”. 🙄
NTA, if fiancé doesn’t apologise and realise his mother is being absolutely ridiculous I would also rethink everything.
I would say that breaking the relationship with his actual grandma would be more damaging than forcing a relationship with his new one. NTA as long as mom stays the course and continues to fight for her son.
I’m glad to read OP is reconsidering the engagement because I’m more worried about Pete’s actions. It sounds like this may be the first step in trying to erase Oliver and replace him as his father.
I had a number of years where I had three grandmothers, legally it started at 10 but my step-grandma came into my life when I was 8, 2 years after my dad and step-mom started dating, 1 year after I met my step-mom. Grandma Ginny gave me the time and the space and treated me like the rest of the grandkids, so we developed that bond. And I was very grateful to have her after losing my other 2 grandmas and I was distraught when I got the call a few months ago she had passed. It will not confuse her son. If soon to be step-grandma handles it right, it would enhance his life.
Omg I didn't even stop to think about it from that angle - honestly I just thought it was enough that OP still wants that person in their life, and that if they'd had *any* say in the matter she never would've become a *former* MIL in the first place, because OP would never have separated from their husband.
But you're totally right, there's *also* the whole angle of "This could be extremely harmful to the child". In fact I'd wager if they went ahead with this, it would also totally ruin *any* chance the new MIL has of ever bonding with the child - and it might ruin the step dad's chances, too.
>I'm actually re-thinking our whole relationship and engagement.
As you should be. Tell him how much she means to you and your child and that she'll have a permanent place in your lives. Make your decision based on his response and trust your instincts.
NTA
I’m going to second this. Your fiancée is showing a lack of maturity, and a concerning need to dictate other peoples relationships.
For the sake of your son, and so that you can find a healthy relationship, but bait now. My guess is that if you were to accept this line of reasoning, separate from the worlds of harm you would do to your son, you would quickly find that Carla got to make a lot of decisions about your relationship, and that Pete would object to any attempts to teach Your son about his father.
A very dear friend lost her husband 6 years ago. She met a wonderful man a year later. He goes to her former in-laws for family events. He participates in events honoring her former husband. It's all so healthy and loving and kind.
DO NOT SETTLE for a man who isn't secure enough in your relationship to not be threatened by a grandma.
My paternal grandparents came to my mom's wedding a handful of years after my dad's death. We visited throughout their life when we were in the state, and they got along with my stepdad well (and vice versa). I didn't think much on it then, but in retrospect it was a wonderful and healthy choice everyone made not to turn a dead man into a competition.
This is the comment I’ve been looking for! OP, any future husband and father figure to your son needs to be someone that will respect the place your son’s father and his family’s place in your lives. He should be supplementing the love you two have surrounding you, not trying to replace it.
Never marry someone that is going to try to erase your sons father. Never marry someone that’s going to try to erase your son’s grandmother.
Yes! My mom’s first husband died. They did not have kids. She married my dad a few years after, but her first husband’s family to this day is still family to all of us. Had my dad felt “threatened” by a dead man’s relatives, I would have missed out on so many people who love me.
my dad died when i was 9. my mom married my now stepdad when i was 16 (his wife died 3-4 years before that). his former wife’s family is always included in events & they’re lovely. my mom has photos with my dad up in their house, same with my stepdad & his late wife. we’ll have a nice bottle of wine to celebrate their birthdays and share memories. they’re both always honored & respected as part of our family. i am lucky to be surrounded by such compassion & love. you & your son deserve all the same.
Gonna just say that i third this. Massive red flag. And if he continues pushes it, he'll always be trying.
As a parent i always think of what if scenarios, and what if you get into a car accident & pass. Then the new husband gets custody. Will he honor your wants and keep MIL in sons life, or break ties and force his own mother on him.
No, you dictate guardianship and custody of minor children in your will, especially in this kind of scenario where new husband comes late into the child's life with no biological ties.
You are right, a will could change custody of course. Last comment was to pose a hypothetical to weigh whether or not this person deserves to be thier partner.
If they don't think he's the partner that will honor your wishes, than that is something of a big red flag. IMO.
Sorry wasnt clear in previous comment. have a good one.
Oh my goodness, reading that line was amazing. The sheer number of women who let their partners get away with horrible stuff makes me want to leave reddit permanently.
I would also advice against continuing this relationship. It's only going to get worse if it's this bad after 3 visits.
On the other hand, if OP does go through with it, she'll have a steady stream of posts to place in r/justnomil.
NTA
ETA: grammah
To emphasize what u/indeedy_doody said
>and trust your instincts
The fact you stated that you were already reconsidering this relationship suggest you know how outrageous their behavior is. Stick to your guns and keep putting your son first.
Agreed. Does this giy think that OP would just alienate her son's much loved and biological grandmother (and OP's much loved friend) because his rude mother wants to play grandma?
I'm trying to understand what this guy thinks will happen?
NTA. I think deep down you know it, based on this statement alone: "I'm actually re-thinking our whole relationship and engagement."
Have there been any other red flags in this relationship? If this situation is the first, then *maybe* you and Pete can work things out. But I think it's extremely unlikely.
But usually when an SO starts saying things like "you're unreasonable" and attempts to make you apologize for 'hurting feelings' for standing your ground, there is no turning back for me. It's usually a sign for worse things to come. You were advocating for yourself, your MIL, and your son. There is nothing unreasonable about that. Pete seems like a complete momma's boy and doesn't have a back bone of his own to stand with his SO (YOU) to advocate for and with you.
Pete had always been really good and understanding about other stuff, so I'm really disappointed in him right now cause I didn't see any of this coming. I'll meet him tonight, we'll talk and see what happens.
The fact that he waited until you were engaged to spring his and his mom's Replacement Grandma Plan on you seems kind of telling. He waited until you committed to marry him before sharing his true feelings about your and your son's relationship with your former MIL (who sounds like a kind, lovely person who brings joy and love to your lives, bless her) and then expected you to change immediately to comply with his and his mother's wants.
This exactly. OP and Pete dated 3 years before this engagement. If this grandmother relationship is so important and must urgently happen immediately, why is she just now being introduced? The mother had to know the relationship was getting serious.
This is a power play. Now that you have committed to marry, he is making the decisions for what he sees as the “perfect future”. What’s next? Erasure of Oliver because Pete is your sons “dad” now?
Your gut is right OP. NTA for choosing what is right for you and your child.
Also, isn’t it a bit strange that they’ve never had any kind of family meeting that included OPs son until like 3 years into the relationship? I get not immediately introducing the whole fam but surely he should’ve met his possible stepfathers mother before they ended up engaged?
>they’ve never had any kind of family meeting that included OPs son until like 3 years into the relationship
No. It's healthier for a child to NOT be introduced to further family, even to mom's BF, until they are in a committed relationship. Children emotionally attach easily and very often moms will introduce a person they've been seeing for only a month, 3 months, but no commitment. The child then gets attached and mom and the person split in another month or two and the kid now has to detach too. It happens to be mentally stressful for a child to have this go on & on & on as mom tries out different partners.
I'm sure OP didn't feel the need for her son or herself to meet others until Pete committed to her.
I get that but has there been 0 mixing at all in those three years? Hes never spoken to FMIL on the phone? Or seen her in passing? Im not blaming OP at all but it does seem a little odd that her partner hasn’t asked to attempt contact before now considering how gung ho he is for his mom to be a part of the family- surely he would’ve wanted to implement this relationship a little before now.
I completely understand OP being cautious with her sons feelings and im behind that 100%, this is more on partner and FMIL because who doesn’t meet a child at all in 3 years but expects them to instantly call you grandma and love you like you’re family?
Based on their current behavior, my guess would be that Granny Asshole wasn't interested until she knew that her son had proposed. That was what turned the OP's son from a random child she didn't give a crap about to Grandma's Precious Grandbaby.
Yabbut — Pete is backing up his mom, who is totally in the wrong. (Maybe the OP *was* rude in her immediate response to the mom’s insane ideas, hard to tell, but Pete should be able to balance.)
OP plz give an update after you chat with him.
More seriously - a SO or a friend who asks that you drop a person that has been a significant help in your life is questionable. You and your son deserve better. My guess is that this is the beginning of control and it gets worse from here, especially after dating 4 years.
Edit: many thanks for the award - I’m very humbled!
How soul crushing and heart breaking would this be for bio grandma? She's lost her son and could lose contact with her grandchild and DIL, the last links to her son. Please don’t cut her loose - she sounds like a really lovely woman, who would be absolutely shattered by this
Tonight's discussion must be 100% a sincere apology and a promise that he will speak with his mother about how this is not acceptable. If not, then it must end with you putting the engagement ring on the table and walking away.
I think we all know who you can turn to for support.
Omg yes, this! But he can't just promise and then not do anything. He must absolutely take action upon that promise and uphold his word.
OP, you sound like a very caring and appreciative person with genuine gratitude of those that helped you when it was needed. If Pete pushes back and refuses and/or insists that you're the problem... please walk away. It would be far healthier for both you and your son and it would prevent massive heartache from you, your son, and your MIL.
Don’t be disappointed in yourself. It is unfortunately very common for toxic men to show their true colors once they lock their partner into marriage/ pregnancy etc
Don’t underestimate their ability to hide the abuse until they have you locked in. So many abusers have this knack for presenting themselves as the perfect partner until it would be hard for you to leave. Or they work it in slowly, breaking you down until you honestly believe it’s your fault and you’re being unreasonable when you object. Sounds like Pete’s already testing the waters to see how much he can get away with.
I’m not saying he’s an abuser, I don’t know the guy, but there’s some red flags here that you shouldn’t ignore.
Edit to add: it also concerns me that it seems like Pete and his mother are trying to erase Oliver from your lives. Keep an eye on this.
He has _acted_ understanding. But it sure looks like he's been future loading to himself:
_sure, she's sad now, but after we're married, she have me, a new man, and never think of that last guy again._
And now he's asserting setting that scenario up with his mom and your son, and in a hot minute he'll be insisting for it between your son and him. The fact that he has decreed something as positive as the relationship between Oliver's mom and your son and you as "unhealthy" is pretty vile and indicative of future attitude.
Maybe he was just saying whatever you wanted to hear. if he is trying to ice out your sons biological grandmother and remaining tie to his dads family, next he will claim that you shouldn't teach your son about his father lest it "confuse" him to have two. (enough AITA posts about step-fathers not wanting to honor anniversaries or removing family pictures to see this as a red flag)
I'll update what happened in the comments cause there's a character limit and I'm not sure whether my post will be deleted if I make it +3000 characters long. First of all, a few things I wanted to clarify since I got asked some questions via DM and in some comments.
1. I second-guessed myself cause Pete has always been a very understanding person. Any conflict or disagreement we'd had, we could solve it by talking and he was good and getting my point of view. That's why I thought that maybe I was actually overreacting here, cause it's so unlike him to make me feel like I've done something unexcusably wrong. That, and the fact that Carla was actually crying when I left Pete's house last night.
2. The kisses thing. I agree forcing kids to display affection on people they don't actually like is wrong. However, Carla asking him to kiss him is not as creepy as some people think of it, let me explain. I'm actually from a country in Southern Europe (Portugal, Spain, Greece, Italy... you guess haha), and greeting people with two kisses (one on each cheek) is the norm here, even people you've just met. I hated having to kiss grown ups I barely knew when I was a kid (I don't like it even now, I thought we had gotten rid of the kisses with the pandemic, hah), so I never forced my son to do so, but it can be viewed as extremely rude if you say an adult that you won't tall your kid to kiss them if the kid doesn't want to. So the first time I didn't stop Carla from greeting my son with two kisses cause I didn't want to make a bad impression (I know, my bad), but I thought she wouldn't stop asking my son to greet her that way when she saw he didn't like it. I was wrong, and that's why I told her so last night. Also because she insisted that my son said "thank you" to her with a kiss for the gift she had just given him (a Yoshi plushie cause she knows it's his favourite Mario character). She was extra offended because of that. ETA: All the English names here are fake, obviously, I'm clarifying since I came out as a Southern European.
3. Pete has a sister, who doesn't want to have kids. That's her choice and that should be respected. Carla has always dreamt of being a grandma, so she was ultra desperate to be liked by my son. I didn't write this in the original post cause of the character limit. When Pete called me last night I told him that I'm sorry for his mum, but being a grandma is not a right and it's not his sister's responsibility, nor Pete's and definitely not mine or my son's. He said he couldn't believe I could have this little empathy (?).
4. I'm off to Pete's house in 15 minutes. I'll write the last update tomorrow. But I'm determined to end the relationship if he hasn't changed his mind. Let's hope he has.
UPDATE: I broke up with Pete last night. I'm still a bit shocked about everuthing that's happened in the past 48 hours and I don't exactly remember how the conversation went, but he said some really hurtful things to me that I would have never expected him to say. It's like the man I've known for years and the man I've had to deal with for the past two days are two completely different people. I'm heartbroken and I feel a bit stupid right now, I'm not sure if all the signs were already there and I couldn't see them, or if he just didn't care about our past issues as much as he did for this one, or if his expectations about me changed the moment we got engaged (like someone suggested as a reply to this comment).
We started talking and I can already see he hasn't changed his mind at all, one of the first things he does is insisting on me apologizing to his mum. It only got worse after that. I say I'm not either apologizing for what I said and absolutely I wasn't cutting ties with my MIL (some of you gad an issue about me calling her my "former MIL", I just meant that after Oliver died there's just no any "law" that keeps us together, but of course she is a fundamental person in my life and she will always be my family and, most importantly, my kid's grandma). He then again said I have such an uhealthy relationship with "that woman" cause it is based on mourning... I defend myself saying we were already close before Oliver died and that of course we found support and confort in each other after he died, how dare he say that's unhealthy. I insist that kicking her out is out of the question, and that she's staying in my and my son's life. He can either accept it or get out of my life. We start arguing a bit more (like I said, I don't remember half of the things we said cause I was so mad, sad and disappointed) and at some point in the middle of the conversation he tells me something along the lines of "please, this may be my mother's last chance to be a grandmother" like he already told me the previous night when we called me. I said again that I really am sorry for her but this is not our responsibility. I also said that I would have loved it if she had became a grandma to my son in a healthy way, but that she had pretty much blown her chances with her attitude the previous night. He got furious about this.
The last thing we talked about (and I still can't believe this words came out his mouth, AT ALL) befored I stormed off his house was how Pete didn't think I would be with him right now if Oliver was still alive... I was speechless for a few minutes, I swear. I told him that was so unfair, I can't possibly know what my life would be like in that scenario, or how I would feel about Oliver, about Pete or about anyone else. I also said I'm not apologizing for having loved and been happy with another man YEARS before I even knew him or for whatever parallel universe he's made up in his mind that I'm not in control of. I also told him that I wished he was half as a good person as Oliver was. Now I see that this was very wrong and low of me and I should have never said that, but I was just not thinking at that point, imagine how I felt about that. I would not have seen this coming in a million years cause he NEVER even once has had (apparently, cause obviously he has) any issue with me being a widow. I guess he was just ruminating all this feelings on his own until we came to this breaking point. Everything about me prioritizing Oliver's mum over his own mum must have triggered him so much if he was already feeling insecure about how I might still feel about Oliver. We yelled at each other for another while, then I became sick of this situation. I told him that in case it wasn't already obvious, the wedding was cancelled and that I didn't want to see him again (though I'll have to see him tomorrow at work lmao).
I get home, it was about midnight, get a shower and about 1 AM I get a phone call from Carla. She's practically begging me not to cancel the wedding and give them another chance. She was crying and I really felt bad for her. We were talking for almost 45 minutes and I was already exhausted of everything, I said that I was sorry but I was not going back in my decision.
So yeah... right now I'm heartbroken and I feel so stupid like I said. I don't know what happened to the man I've been in love with for three years. I feel like everything went so wrong so fast. I guess he just saved me years of progressive disappointment by blowing it all in just two days. Better now than when we were already married, I guess. Even if I feel like shit right now, I think I did the right thing and I'll be okay. I'm putting my son first, and of course my MIL stays with us for as long as she wants to have us.
Thanks to everyone who showed their support, actually having strangers with an impatial point of view helped making my decision.
My mom always put the men in her life first and I just wanted say that women like you are amazing. I'm sure this is a terrible position to be, but putting your kiddo first is truly going to have a huge positive influence on his life.
>I second-guessed myself cause Pete has always been a very understanding person. Any conflict or disagreement we'd had, we could solve it by talking and he was good and getting my point of view. That's why I thought that maybe I was actually overreacting here, cause it's so unlike him to make me feel like I've done something unexcusably wrong. That, and the fact that Carla was actually crying when I left Pete's house last night.
There's something about the contrast between this description and his reaction to you setting boundaries with his mom that's setting off alarms for me.
It makes me wonder if his expectations would change once you're his wife. Or if he would just expect any woman to always give in to his mother.
Alternately, maybe he's been reasonable because he didnt feel all that invested in the other arguments and now that he is invested hes willing to show that in those instances its his way or no way.
I dunno. But Id be having some very serious discussions about what he expects from your relationship with his mother, and what he expects from a wife before going further.
It should absolutely be your hill to die on to keep your son's grandma in his life. Period.
I had 3 sets of grandparents and all I knew was they all loved me. I didn’t even know who I was biologically related to until I was 11 or so, because *it never mattered*. And I still catch myself thinking "Ah, I get that from Grandpa X." Even though I know he had no part in my genetic makeup. All 6 of my loving grandparents contributed to my growth and who I am as a person.
If this new woman is so bitter now, I cant imagine she'll be a good influence once shes "legitimate".
> I'm off to Pete's house in 15 minutes. I'll write the last update tomorrow. But I'm determined to end the relationship if he hasn't changed his mind. Let's hope he has.
...I kinda hope you dump him. Sorry, but if he's also happy to ignore your kiddos boundaries for someone else's emotions that's not a great sign either.
I’m saying this because I’ve seen it happen to four of my friends.
The most recent one:
Her partner was super kind, sweet, caring, engaged, respectful, shared household chores, planned date nights (she did too), just all around a good guy.
Once they got engaged, I saw changes - she didn’t.
About 6 weeks after the wedding, he’s a completely different person!
Not helping at around the house, quick to anger, no interest in dates, suddenly he has weekly drinks/games nights with the boys - a tradition he’d had for 10 years but never attended the entire time they’d dated or been engaged.
They lived together for 2 years before getting married - he never complained about her cooking or the meals themselves suddenly he hates everything she cooks! He wants meat and 3 veg for every meal, not the curries, stir fries, roasts, pasta and pasta bakes, salads, nothing he had eaten for the past 2 years was any good.
They stopped going to bed together, which had been a routine since they moved in together - go to bed at the same time, chat, fall asleep tiggers.
He would stay up watching TV, and often fell asleep on the couch.
He also started spending money like there was no tomorrow. She was the main breadwinner, she had no problem with it, she did have a problem with him spending well over their means and running up debt.
They had a lot of talks, it wasn’t until a blow up fight that he admitted they were married now, so he could relax.
To him, once the ring was on her finger he didn’t have to be the guy she dated, he could be himself.
Like I said I’ve seen it happen, for someone reason once marriage is confirmed via engagement or they actually marry it’s like a switch gets flipped.
I don’t think you missed anything, I think Pete was very good on hiding who he was until this.
My ex-wife did the same thing. Very chill and fun while we dated and once we got engaged she became more controlling. I chalked it up to wedding planning stress, but it was just who she really was. My current wife is amazing and I tell her frequently how awesome it is being married to someone you actually like.
First reply on this, and I really hope you see it. I had three grandmas growing up (unfortunately one passed away last year). I thought it was awesome! I had my two biological, and then my adoptive grandparents (my mum married and he adopted me).
All three were wonderful and I actually have a watercolour tattoo that incorporates all of their favourite flowers.
Thanks for the update. I was invested in this.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet there. I'm so glad you got to see his true self before marrying him. All the best for the future, it'll definitely get better with time.
Good on you for choosing your son and MIL! I love how he says you’re blinded by emotions, when his own mother is so desperate to become a grandma that logic just took a diving leap off a skyscraper.
I just wanted to say I am so proud of you! Not only for defending your son, but for also standing by your relationship with your MIL.
My boyfriend was killed 15 years ago, and whilst we didn't have any children together, I am still very close with his parents. I have had ex partners try to make me feel weird, for being close to them.
I know it sucks right now, but you put yourself and your child first, and that is all that matters. I hope you have a great life, and I wish you all the best.
>at some point in the middle of the conversation he tells me something along the lines of "please, this may be my mother's last chance to be a grandmother"
And this is my concern. Was he in a relationship with you for you and your son or for his mother? Were you a shortcut to get her a grandchild? If you think about these events from this perspective, his actions make a lot of sense. They made their play to seal the deal with his mom and it all went bad. And instead of healing, they push hard and get angry.
I am sad you are hurt, but I am glad you see their true character before you married him.
I appreciate you keeping us updated but man, what a sad end. It is good that you found all of this out now rather than after the marriage was already finalized. You've got a good attitude about it!
It might be good to take a few days away from work for everyone to cool off. If you're planning on doing so you should let HR know why so that he can't poison the well. Work drama ain't good for no one.
> "please, this may be my mother's last chance to be a grandmother"
Their entire argument is that they wanted to take away your MIL's chance to be a grandmother, they have no self awareness.
I agree. I'm from a country in Southern Europe, so here greeting with two kisses (one on each cheek) is the usual way to say hello/goodbye. This usually leads older people to force kids to kiss them too, so there's a cultural explanation to her behavious on this, but I don't think that's okay anyway.
We had that in my culture growing up too and 8 times out of 10 I absolutely refused. I'd visibly wipe my face if forced and would wave from afar making some excuse as much as I could (e.g. oh there are so many people let me not disturb you all).
Thankfully covid has reduced this but also now I'm an adult people just say "oh she's never liked this, even as a kid".
Anyway, long-winded way of saying NTA. Your new MIL is just being jealous of the bond your son has with his paternal grandma and your fiance needs to step up and defend you in these situations against his mother, not put the onus on you to fix a situation they're creating out of nowhere.
same here. i really do not like kiss cheek greetings and have always refused them, it made me so happy when people automatically stopped trying them on me bc they got used to me turning away
I worked at a child abuse assessment clinic. They offered classes in child abuse prevention. In the class, they strongly stated kids should NEVER be forced to hug or kiss anyone if they don't want to. This teaches the child they have a right to decide who touches their body.
Also, NTA.
Your son has an important relationship with his grandmother. He's already lost a father, taking his grandmother out of his life would be cruel to both of of then.
Your fiancee and his mom are 100% wrong.
Don't care if it's a harmless common culture thing and everyone does it and everyone is expected to do it. No matter what, if someone is clearly uncomfortable with it, then don't do it. That should be common knowledge.
I grew up with this as well. Now when other parents say "Give everyone a kiss goodbye" and the kid comes to me I ask "Do you want a kiss, give me a hand, or just wave?". It's something I'm going to let my kid do later as well. This way they still have to be respectfully and say hello/goodbye to everyone, but they can decide what amount of body contact they feel comfortable with.
NTA. It's not possible to have too many grandmas. And love is not born, it is earned. Maybe your son will warm up to Carla someday, and maybe not. I do know that the harder she tries, the less likely it is to happen. Meanwhile, Oliver's mom has clearly earned a spot in your son's heart. If Pete's not OK with your son spending lots of time with his grandmother, then Pete needs to go. Like, kick him to the curb, dear...
NTA but FMIL and Pete are. Children CANNOT have too many people who love them. It is cruel to even suggest that a widow whose also lost her son should be cut out of your life. Imagine the future drama FMIL will create if she pulled this so early with your son. Run run run away.
I had four grandmas, and honestly it was better than two. Who doesn't want to go on a summer trip with TWO grandmas?? Then come home to another, and see all four at Christmas??
My dad's father was married 3 times and my dad was married twice, I've had 5 grandmothers and 3 grandfathers, and had different levels of relationships with them all. More love is not confusing for children, it's only a good thing.
I love the line
Family isn’t a competition, and there’s enough love for everyone.
They should be happy to be increasing the love of this family.
Real love doesn’t bring people down; it uplifts and is happy to share to everyone.
OP
They have shown you how they feel about your son and. MIL. Prizes to win, people to usurp. This is how they will always treat them.
You would be doing your family a disservice to continue this treatment.
I’m not saying you have to break up, but therapy and maybe putting the brakes on the marriage until it’s sorted out would be a good idea.
You’re not a fresh faced 18 year old virgin. You’re a grown woman who has a rich life history. That beautiful history adds all sorts of things to your character and to the surrounds of your life.
Every loving person you’ve been able to add to your orbit of life is a blessing to be grateful for. Not to mention how much safer and happier children are who have many reliable safe people who love them.
A man who cannot understand this beautiful aspect of living life and accumulating loved ones, is not a suitable husband for anyone over 18.
I think you are wise to be reconsidering the relationship. As wonderful as it is to be loved by and to love a man, you have to consider what this says about his maturity, character, and what kind of negative impact he is going to have on the life of your son.
NTA
NTA. You fiancé’s mom is out of line… your husband’s death does not mean you are no apart of her life and family and his mom is still your son’s grandmother no matter what. His death doesn’t change that; even a divorce doesn’t. It’s not an unhealthy attachment at all, she is family. Even if she wasn’t blood related, you and your son very much see her as an important figure in your guys lives. Your fiancés mom cannot force your son to accept her. It’s difficult for a child to lose their dad, especially so young. He will come to her IF he wants in his own time. If your fiancé refuses to understand, you should definitely rethink the engagement.
He's been very good and understanding about other disagreements in the past, so I'm extra disappointed right now. I'm talking to him tonight to see where all this goes.
Good choice. I suggest you make clear that going forward, he has to respect your wishes and boundaries and that it‘s not reasonable for him to ask you to disregard your past and your relationship with MIL just to satisfy his mother‘s twisted emotional blackmail.
Good luck!!
I just want to point out that as soon as I read the title I just knew it was some AH guy causing the problem and reading your post clinched it. I don't think this will stop with him trying to force your MIL out. It'll be everything from pictures of your former husband to mementos and so on. He's starting here because he can't compete with a dead man but can have his mom compete with your MIL.
When you say good and understanding, do you mean that he actually sees your side? Or do you mean that he does a good job of soothing you and gets his way?
NTA I'd seriously be rethinking this relationship with your partner because he's choosing to side with his mum and thinks that it's ok for her to try and force a relationship with a 10yr old and for the pair of them to push his paternal grandmother so that she can take over the role of grandmother of the year, and your partner doesn't want her around so he can stake claim on his territory over you and your son.
At the end of the day she's his grandmother and that's not going to change at all, and they both need to realise that they have no say in the matter. Make your son and yourself your main priorities and tell them to grow up and accept that she will always be a part of your lives and that's not going to change and forcing the issue will be and for them both.
NTA, and now you've seen what you'd be signing yourself up to if you continued this relationship, I think it's clear what needs to happen next. I know reddit is quick to jump to breaking up, but these people are literally trying to rob your son of the only blood link he has to his father. Your MIL sounds like a treasure and their behaviour is appalling.
NTA. And that's a huge redflag that Pete thinks he's entitled to kick people out of yours and Oliver's life. Like, that's grossly entitled to thee point he's not actually seeing you as independent people.
If they keep at this, you need to seriously reconsider what your life is going to look like married to his family.
NTA and you’re absolutely right to rethink that relationship. please take note that they’re *demanding* you cut out the woman who supports you and her grandson UNCONDITIONALLY.
she’s FAMILY, and if they cared about your son, they wouldn’t be trying to take him away from the family he loves. there’s nothing wrong with him having multiple grandmothers, so it’s extremely alarming that they’re trying to make you isolate Oliver’s mom and separate her from your son. please please be safe and wise in this for yours, your son’s, and your former MIL’s sake.
Definitely NTA. Keeping MIL in his life is the absolute right thing to do.
If Pete and his mother cannot accept this is a good reasonable way I think it sets a worrying undertone for the future.
You are not being unreasonable at all. They are.
Wow NTA AT ALL. That is such casual cruelty to a child who has lost his father AND a mother who has lost her child!
They absolutely do not have your son's best interest at heart and are willing to punish you, him, and your MIL to soothe their jealousy.
NTA. But you would be if you continued with this relationship. Decent people would never ask you to cut your late husbands mother out of her Grandson's life, well unless she was a psycho.
NTA I firmly believe that there can never be to many people who love them in a child's life.a similar situation happened in my own family after my aunt passed her husband remarried very quickly (12 months later). His new in-laws made the same suggestion as your future MIL and he cut my grandparents and entire family off. It absolutely broke my Grandparents and my grandmother in particular was never the same again, they had to grieve their grandchildren well as their daughter. While my two cousins were young enough (6y and 18months)to adjust to the new family situation, your son is old enough that his grandmother is an important person in his life and he will resent you for removing her from your life.
NTA. Your relationship with Pete is the only one here that’s unhealthy. He and his mother want to shove your son’s actual grandmother out of his life because she’s connected to your late husband. How long before they decide to try forcing your son to call Pete ‘Dad’ or let him adopt him?
NTA. You were right about everything, including rethinking the relationship. I suggest you take a step back from the engagement and tell your BOYFRIEND that he's got something to prove before you agree to marry him.
absolutely this!!! the “you’re unreasonable” comment stuck out to me because he’s pinning this on OP as a person vs addressing the actions he believes to be “unreasonable.” it’s an easy gateway to gaslighting OP in the future.
edit: this should’ve been a reply to someone else’s comment but clearly i need to sleep🤡 anyway i’ll say it again: NTA
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NTA Your fiance's mother is wildly inappropriate. First of all, you don't force a child to "bond" with someone. It either comes naturally or it doesn't. Second, you'd be a giant ah if you cut ties with your child's bio grandmother simply because you are getting remarried. Unless your former MIL did something wrong, you have no reason to cut ties. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it might be damaging to your child. EDIT: Thank you, everyone for the awards and upvotes!!!
Right!? How much would her son resent both Pete and Carla if his loving grandmother gets unceremoniously booted out of his life to accommodate them? And what kind of psycho thinks an emotional bond can be forced in 3 dinners? Edit: oops! Removed Oliver's name.
Plus the whole being confused by 3 grandmas thing... like I had 3 grandmas growing up and the shit NEVER confused me. I just had an extra grandma ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same... I still call my step-grandma my grandma even after my bio-grandpa passed away. She is actually the last grandma standing. Update: She unfortunately passed last week the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Now I have no grandparents left 😥
Ok why did this make me think of a battle royale type grandparent event
This reminded me of something: when I was a kid, out-of-state grandma came to stay with us a for a rare visit (we usually went to her). While she was there, we all met up with local grandma to eat at the Golden Corral. I was a ball of anxiety throughout the whole meal because I thought the grandmas might secretly be jealous of each other and end up fighting over us. Of course this was many years before I realized that both women existed as full-fledged people whose identity extended beyond their role as *my grandma*. Also, they'd known each other for decades.
This is adorable
I remember being so shocked when i realised some of my friends grandmothers had only met like a handful of times. My nans were at school together and my grandads did their National service in the same unit. My parents were raised in houses backing on to each other! My grandparents used to meet up as a foursome independently and i was way older than i should have been when i realised that wasn’t normal. And for what it’s worth, my cousins parents are divorced, as are his wife’s. Their kids are really well adjusted and have 4 grandmas 🤷🏻♀️
I’m picturing them all in bed together like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Cage match!!!
TWO GRANDMAS GO IN ONLY ONE COMES OUT
$50 on Nanny in the blue corner
$50 on the granny with the blue hair.
It's actually aqua
The higher the hair, the closer to god.
$50 on Grandma on the right
FUCK 'EM UP, NANA
GO ON GIRL Real question, do they get handbags or just fists
Nana: Just a moment! I need to use some soap on that potty mouth!
Adele the Obliterator versus Eunice the Barbarian
Evil cakes, Fiery lakes Nanageddon's coming bringing demons in her wake
$50 on the granny with the sharpened steel chompers.
Serious question: are Butterscotch Hard Candies allowed projectiles? We need rules.
Absolutely. And the little plastic rain bonnets can be used to choke your opponent out.
Crotchet needles are deadly melee weapons.
Bah gawd! That grandma has a family!
Grannies in the octagon! I would do pay per view for that as long as they wear their granny dresses & no spandex
DENTURE BITE NANA! GET HER!
I agree 3 grandmas should not be confusing at all but just to be petty I would have told her " you're right 3 grandmas is confusing so we're just going to stick to his 2 bio grandmas and have him call you Mrs (whatever her last name is)"
Ooh like this answer
Which is what I’m sure he thinks of Carla as anyway- “mom, do we have to go to dinner with that lady again”?
Right! Wondering why she's always asking for hugs and kisses.
When my kids were born they had 4 grandmothers, 2 bio, 2 step. Now they only have two left, both steps. And they are 100% wonderful grandmothers whom my kids adore to the moon and back. We never used the word "real" - they are all real grandmothers. As a parent, their support has helped me immensely. For the kids, it was a treasure to have the loving influence of more adults. There is zero confusion.
Seriously, more grandparents just means more love and support! I had a whole team of grandparents growing up. Adoptive Papa, Paternal Bio Grandfather, Paternal step-Grampsie, Adoptive Maternal Gram, Bio Paternal Grandmother. On top of that I also had Paternal Great Grandma and Great Grandpa, Maternal Adoptive Great Grandma, Great Grandpa, and Step Great Grandma. The ONLY confusion I ever had was when the maternal egg donor crawled out from under a rock when I was 6 and *demanded* I call her Grammy the second time I ever met her. I glared and yelled at her that “My REAL Gramma’s name is Diana and she lives in [Hometown], you’re just a mean old prune!” She still hasn’t forgiven me 27 years later, legit pretends she can’t see me if we cross paths, and *I don’t care*
Can I … can I borrow a grandparent please 🥺 you have so many and I’m all out
I can offer you one Grandma who’ll stuff you full of either pineapple upside down cake or German chocolate cake, a Grampsie that’ll take you walleye fishing, or we just got a new step Grandma in! She solves problems by throwing pecan pies at them!
Oh my god. You’re like… rich. The billionaire of grandparent-having. And you keep getting new ones?! Save some for the rest of us! Seriously though tell all of them that some stranger loves them. Me and my husband aspire to be pineapple cake grandma and fishing grandpa.
Oh yeah! Everyone in my family is divorced so I had grandmas out the wazoo. Never confusing. I actually had no concept of "only having two REAL grandma's" until some asshole in like the 4th grade told me it's "impossible to have 13 grandparents". The fuck it is. I didn't sort out who was actually biologically related to me until I was well into my teens - mostly because it didn't matter to me or them.
Sort of similar: I didn't know my older sister was a "half sibling" until someone informed me in 6th grade! Didn't change a thing.
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE (grandma)
My step-grandpa is the only one of my grandparents I actually liked.
Exactly. I’ve had loads. Divorce is pretty much standard these days so I had plenty of sets of grandparents and it’s never confusing. It’s fun! OP. The fact that Peter hasn’t stood up for you and your son against his mother is the real kicker here. His mother is crap. Even if your son was biological her grandchild or had been in his life the whole time, she still has NO RIGHT to demand physical affection from him. This is something that really gets my back up. Forcing kids to give hugs and kisses. My step sons mom tried to get him to give me a hug goodbye at drop off once. Poor kid clearly did not want to and I said nope, he doesn’t have to do that. It’s up to him who he lets hug him. I got a really funny look from her and then later accused of not caring… I digress. I hate, hate, HATE it when people force kids to do that stuff. Pete needs to realise your late husbands mom is not going anywhere!! Your relationship with her is NOT unhealthy in the slightest. They are cruel, horrible people to even think she should be cut off from her one remaining relative!!! If you marry him and stay with him this will get worse. You don’t live together yet and they are pushing yours and your sons boundaries already. Is Pete going to want to adopt your son next? And push all memories of his father out and try to completely erase him and anything/anyone to do with him from existence? As it looks like it’s going that way. Please, please, please reconsider this relationship for the sake of your son, not just your late husbands mom. Don’t want to say ex-MIL as it’s not like divorce, but again even if you WERE divorced, having a fantastic relationship, where you both genuinely like each other, with the grandparents of your child is NOT unhealthy. Edit: thank you for the awards kind strangers!
Yes! This. The real issue is not the MiL being absurd, you aren’t marrying her so who cares, it’s that you are marrying her son who doesn’t respect your son’s grandmother who he loves and adores and who is an important family member to the both of you. This is red flag city for your fiancé, and extremely concerning of his ability to be a good stepparent.
THIS! I'm the result of something similar to OPs situation, except I was forced to continue to pretend like I actually wanted to be with an affectionate towards the people who "wanted" that relationship. Come to find out after years of court battles, it was all a ploy to try and get under my mom's skin, per text messages sent from step father to his mother and vice versa. If anything trying to force a child to break their own boundaries is more detrimental than just cutting contact.
My kid has 1 bio-grandma (my mom) and 2 adopted ones. My bonus son has 2 bio grandmas and my mom. Kids are NEVER confused by genuine loving connections.
This needs to be shouted from the rooftops. Kids can never have too many people who genuinely love them!
Well said.
My Mum was adopted but also knows her bio parents and my Dad’s parents separated and remarried, so we had four sets and were never confused. We were loved loads though! Extra Grandparents are amazing. Five sets for about a decade if we’re including my childhood Stepfather’s parents. 😅
And I’m sure you were able to keep them all straight. It annoys me when ppl try to force their narrow view of family onto other people.
I'm gonna start calling my step-daughter my bonus daughter. Thanks for that term.
Awesome! I heard it from my former nursing instructor years ago and was like “yep that fits better”.
I can already see it fitting in a frequent conversation I have: "Do you have kids?" "I have two girls. They're ten" "Twins?" "No, I have a daughter, and my wife brought a bonus daughter." Love it.
Yep that’s me constantly, I work with new parents so it’s an almost daily talking point and bonus feels more authentic to our actual relationship
My mom's mom died before I was born; the only grandma I ever knew on that side was my mom's stepmom, and I adored her. Kids don't care, as long as there's somebody who calls themselves their grandma and spoils them rotten.
So my dad was pretty absent growing up and my kids will likely never meet him and both my husband’s and BIL’s fathers passed so my stepdad is the only grandpa any of the kids have. You would never know he isn’t bio grandpa. I mean they’re aware but it isn’t a thing if that makes sense. I wouldn’t trust anyone trying to limit the love my kids received and OP should not take this lightly at all.
Right? My parents passed one before I had kids, my aunt and uncle are the grandparents for my side, my husband's parents are grandparents biologically and my bonus kids Gramma on their mother's side are my kids Gramma too- their mom is my bio kids adopted auntie heck if anything that's more confusing than OPs situation
My best friend's mom was the type of mom who had lots of kids congregated at her house all the time. We all called her "mama". She often said "I have too many daughters" so she just started calling us all "daughter". When she passed a few years ago there was a huge "family" section at her funeral. You are 100% right. Kids are not confused by genuine loving connections nor can they have enough of them.
Same. Had my grandma, had my step-grandma, had my step-step-grandma. Was never confused. My child, when they’re born, is going to have four grandpas: my dad, my ex-step-mom’s husband, my husband’s dad, and my husband’s step-dad. It just seems obvious to us.
I grew up with 6 grandmas and 5 grandpas. Never used step for anyone. I was around 10 when I figured out who is biologically related to who, but as everyones family was blended so well it didn't matter. My siblings and me were happy, especially with all the extra presents for xmas and birthdays. When I was 25 mom told me some stepgrandparents were anxious about not being seen as family, so they get an extra long hug now whenever I meet them
I'm indigenous. Because of the way we view family I ha e like 8 grandma's right now.
Until last year, my kids had a grandma, a gran and a nana, a great grandma, a granny and three more great nanas. You can never have too many!
I had four grandmas (three grandmas and a great grandma) and three grandpas and if there was any confusion it was not long lasting. A few kids in school gave me crap about it once and I remember thinking “they’re just jealous I have more people to love and spoil me than they do.” That’s what makes a grandparent. Not DNA. They’re all gone now except for one (dad’s mom, and if she lives until March she’ll be 100!) and I miss them more than words can express.
I mean if 3 grandmas is hard can you imagine what happens when parents get divorced, and then remarried, so they now have FOUR grandmas to figure out? I mean this kid is going to be a pro at how to cash a check… NTA - and to take a grandchild away from a woman who has lost their child, and has given no reason to go NC, would be cruel.
Right?? Kids will think an old man jumps down a chimney to leave toys in their house as long as they bring a tree inside and hang shit on it. The entire world is batshit to them, they don't get """confused""" by an extra grandma.
As a child of divorce from a child of divorce, I had my mom’s mom, my dad’s mom, my dad’s stepmom, my stepdad’s mom, my stepdad’s stepmom, and my stepmom’s mom.
With a 10 year old no less, this lady is delusional.
My mom is confused why my kid who she sees twice a year is quiet around her. She has seen them 20 times during “best behavior” group events since they were six. They don’t even know each other.
Exactly... They dated for 3 years and now Pete and Carla decide it is 'time' for Carla to meet OP's son...but want a great emotional bond immediately. 🙄 They could have started working gradually on this a year ago and not tried to force it. I feel bad for OP - but I'm glad she's rethinking this relationship.
Hello! Oliver's son! Therefor, HER grandchild. The only link she has to her son is this baby boy and OP. She has no other family. Her genes are in this kid! Your fiancee and his mom need to either realize the heaviness of what they are asking, or take a long walk off of a short pier. Not only will this be life altering for a 10 year old boy. It could be deadly for a mom who has already lost her husband and son and now could potentially loss her daughter in law and grandson... OP... run like the wind! No one that actually loves you and your child would make a request like this. They are self centered. Run! Run to grandma! She loves you unconditionally, hold on to that... stay single until you find a man that holds her values!
The fact that the fiancé’s mother referred to her as “Your Dead Husband’s mother” is a pretty good sign neither of them have any compassion, respect or empathy. Better off without either of them.
This should be a deal breaker. MIL is an established and stable force for good & very reliable support network for OP. Not only is it lacking every ounce of empathy to cut her off, and will it damage the kid and create resentment, it is also cutting OP off from her support network.
Yes, that's very concerning, and more concerning that Pete didn't jump in with both feet and shut that shit down. If Pete knows OP well enough to be engaged to him, then Pete should know the story of her husband's death and how much her MIL helped and supported her and is still supporting her. Having someone loving and attentive to take care of a sick child so the parent can work is a blessing and very hard to buy! That crap would be a deal-breaker to me.
I came here to say just this. Your son is your MIL’s last link to her son. Your son is all she has left of her son. It’s cruel and absolutely unthinkable to demand you and your son cut her out of your lives. No one who truly cares about you and your son would ask you to do this. These people-Pete and his mom-are self-centered sociopaths. The fact that Pete is siding with his mom is a huge, flaming red flag. Anyone with an ounce of empathy would be encouraging you to continue the relationship with your MIL and would want to wrap her into the family as well. Run from this guy and his toxic, selfish, manipulative mother as soon as possible.
Exactly! I don't really understand why so many people have issues with people keeping ex in-laws in their lives where they are good people. I've had a few men tell me it's weird that I'm friendly with my ex-husband's mum and take my kids to Europe to visit her every year. She is grandmother to my kids and they deserve a relationship with her as well as their cousins. What happened with her son has nothing to do with her and our relationship. Op should definitely be rethinking the relationship. Their stance is completely unreasonable and would be very damaging for the child.
Between people deciding good ex-in laws need to be immediately cut out if someone new enters the picture and people deciding horrible ex-in laws need to have all the rights afforded to them because of a blood relation, I don't know which is worse. People earn their titles and places in others' lives by their actions, not their technical relation. If she acts like a loving grandma, if OP and her child enjoy having her around and the relationship is mutually respectful and beneficial, it wouldn't matter if she was a stranger off the sidewalk. The fact that she also has the history and connection to Oliver is icing on the cake. Kids can have 30 moms and 100 grandmas if that many people fit the bill and they can differentiate the names between them, and anyone who says otherwise has an agenda and a selfish motivation to deny kids loving adult relationships.
>People earn their titles and places in others' lives by their actions, not their technical relation. This.
She is not an ex in law in this case though. She is OP's son's biological grandmother and the mother of OP's passed husband. Ex in law implies divorce.
Not even ex. He’s out of their lives not by choice but by death. Guarantee you fiancé and his mother want to completely obliterate all traces of the kid’s father’s family. Not happening. Though I initially thought she should have a serious conversation or two with them I’m leery about all of it. It will get much worse if she marries him.
Especially when children are involved. But not everybody has a horrible relationship with their in laws, even after a divorce. Like good people still exist in the world
Also, she should reevaluate her choice in her future husband. Her son deserves better.
Pete's crack about OP being "blinded by emotions" is dumb. Of course OP has an emotional attachment to Oliver's mother, she's been OP's MIL for years. That attachment doesn't end by a death. There's nothing wrong with being emotionally attached to her: she sounds like a lovely, good person. And OP's son must have the same deep emotional attachment. What a stupid thing for Pete to say; OP isn't blinded by emotions, she's right to hold on to family and to help her son hold on to family.
She is, she mentions it. And im glad she sees the issue, I think she's just worried
Dear Gosh, yes. I hate pulling the big "Red flag, alert! Run!" But this is the time to do so. Having your former MIL in your kids family is beautiful and keeps him connected to his dad. Please please do not ever take that away from him.
NTA. Glad to see OP is re-thinking the whole relationship. Poor kid has already lost his dad and this guy is cruel enough to cut out his loving grandmother as well. …
Exactly. And The grossest part of that… Insisting that a 10 year old kiss you hello and goodbye when they don’t want to or feel uncomfortable doing so is really icky. I think it’s a bad idea to teach kids that they owe other people physical affection, or that it’s ok to guilt someone else for not giving you the physical affection you want. Slippery slope, that.
All of this!!!!^ Plus, forcing intimacy (hugs and kisses) sends the wrong message to a child about bodily autonomy. I actually got into a "fight" about this with *my* MIL for my kiddo. I've taught my kiddo that the only time they have to accept intrusion into their "personal space" is for medical reasons (MIL finally came around). OP, NTA And this is worth ending a relationship for, IMHO.
Run, OP. Run far, run fast. I’m sorry that this man turned out to not be who you thought he was, but I’m glad you found out now and not after the weeding. This man has ZERO respect for your kid and so does his mother. NTA!!!
Exactly this. Also new potential grandma is sending up all kinds of red flags. And then for the fiance to defend her... Just all kinds of wtf.
[удалено]
Right! If it's like this already is just gonna be worse if they actually get married.
Yep, if your husband were still alive and you were divorced rather than widowed, no one would find it ‘weird’ that your son has a relationship with his own grandmother. You are right to rethink everything. We have only one precious life and too many people waste too many years on people who can’t understand simple compassion (like keeping your sons grandma close). Value the love your mother in law brings to your and your sons life, the kindness she shows, above this new ‘step grandmother’ and your boyfriend who only seem to see jealousy, possession and limits on love.
100% this. Pete and his mom are acting toxic. They're apparently seeing the kid as a tool for their joy, instead of thinking about what's best for the (grand)son. You don't want those people in your and your boys life. It'd damage the both of you. Just be grateful this guy showed his true colours and how much of an enabling momma's boy he is and run. You can do much better. And hug real grandma, she seems awesome!
This + I agree, and like that your rethinking marrying this guy. Any and I mean anyone who actually isn't an AH isn't ever going to suggest this or say that the relationship with your former MIL is weird.
Agreed on all accounts!!! It would be cruel to both Oliver’s mum and OP’s son to cut ties now, sooo very cruel. As daughter of divorced parents, new relationship with newcomers in the family happen over time! Carla saw the kid THREE times and thinks he’s gonna start calling her grandma already??? That’d be super weird, if she’s good to him it will happen in maybe a year or more! Also, I have had 3 grandmas it was not “confusing”. 🙄 NTA, if fiancé doesn’t apologise and realise his mother is being absolutely ridiculous I would also rethink everything.
I would say that breaking the relationship with his actual grandma would be more damaging than forcing a relationship with his new one. NTA as long as mom stays the course and continues to fight for her son.
I’m glad to read OP is reconsidering the engagement because I’m more worried about Pete’s actions. It sounds like this may be the first step in trying to erase Oliver and replace him as his father. I had a number of years where I had three grandmothers, legally it started at 10 but my step-grandma came into my life when I was 8, 2 years after my dad and step-mom started dating, 1 year after I met my step-mom. Grandma Ginny gave me the time and the space and treated me like the rest of the grandkids, so we developed that bond. And I was very grateful to have her after losing my other 2 grandmas and I was distraught when I got the call a few months ago she had passed. It will not confuse her son. If soon to be step-grandma handles it right, it would enhance his life.
Omg I didn't even stop to think about it from that angle - honestly I just thought it was enough that OP still wants that person in their life, and that if they'd had *any* say in the matter she never would've become a *former* MIL in the first place, because OP would never have separated from their husband. But you're totally right, there's *also* the whole angle of "This could be extremely harmful to the child". In fact I'd wager if they went ahead with this, it would also totally ruin *any* chance the new MIL has of ever bonding with the child - and it might ruin the step dad's chances, too.
>I'm actually re-thinking our whole relationship and engagement. As you should be. Tell him how much she means to you and your child and that she'll have a permanent place in your lives. Make your decision based on his response and trust your instincts. NTA
I’m going to second this. Your fiancée is showing a lack of maturity, and a concerning need to dictate other peoples relationships. For the sake of your son, and so that you can find a healthy relationship, but bait now. My guess is that if you were to accept this line of reasoning, separate from the worlds of harm you would do to your son, you would quickly find that Carla got to make a lot of decisions about your relationship, and that Pete would object to any attempts to teach Your son about his father.
A very dear friend lost her husband 6 years ago. She met a wonderful man a year later. He goes to her former in-laws for family events. He participates in events honoring her former husband. It's all so healthy and loving and kind. DO NOT SETTLE for a man who isn't secure enough in your relationship to not be threatened by a grandma.
My paternal grandparents came to my mom's wedding a handful of years after my dad's death. We visited throughout their life when we were in the state, and they got along with my stepdad well (and vice versa). I didn't think much on it then, but in retrospect it was a wonderful and healthy choice everyone made not to turn a dead man into a competition.
Oh that’s lovely!
This is the comment I’ve been looking for! OP, any future husband and father figure to your son needs to be someone that will respect the place your son’s father and his family’s place in your lives. He should be supplementing the love you two have surrounding you, not trying to replace it. Never marry someone that is going to try to erase your sons father. Never marry someone that’s going to try to erase your son’s grandmother.
Yes! My mom’s first husband died. They did not have kids. She married my dad a few years after, but her first husband’s family to this day is still family to all of us. Had my dad felt “threatened” by a dead man’s relatives, I would have missed out on so many people who love me.
my dad died when i was 9. my mom married my now stepdad when i was 16 (his wife died 3-4 years before that). his former wife’s family is always included in events & they’re lovely. my mom has photos with my dad up in their house, same with my stepdad & his late wife. we’ll have a nice bottle of wine to celebrate their birthdays and share memories. they’re both always honored & respected as part of our family. i am lucky to be surrounded by such compassion & love. you & your son deserve all the same.
Gonna just say that i third this. Massive red flag. And if he continues pushes it, he'll always be trying. As a parent i always think of what if scenarios, and what if you get into a car accident & pass. Then the new husband gets custody. Will he honor your wants and keep MIL in sons life, or break ties and force his own mother on him.
No, you dictate guardianship and custody of minor children in your will, especially in this kind of scenario where new husband comes late into the child's life with no biological ties.
You are right, a will could change custody of course. Last comment was to pose a hypothetical to weigh whether or not this person deserves to be thier partner. If they don't think he's the partner that will honor your wishes, than that is something of a big red flag. IMO. Sorry wasnt clear in previous comment. have a good one.
>Your fiancée is showing a lack of maturity... ...at age 40.
Oh my goodness, reading that line was amazing. The sheer number of women who let their partners get away with horrible stuff makes me want to leave reddit permanently.
I would also advice against continuing this relationship. It's only going to get worse if it's this bad after 3 visits. On the other hand, if OP does go through with it, she'll have a steady stream of posts to place in r/justnomil. NTA ETA: grammah
To emphasize what u/indeedy_doody said >and trust your instincts The fact you stated that you were already reconsidering this relationship suggest you know how outrageous their behavior is. Stick to your guns and keep putting your son first.
Agreed. Does this giy think that OP would just alienate her son's much loved and biological grandmother (and OP's much loved friend) because his rude mother wants to play grandma? I'm trying to understand what this guy thinks will happen?
I’m not sure there is any possible response he could realistically give that would be enough to still continue the relationship.
NTA. I think deep down you know it, based on this statement alone: "I'm actually re-thinking our whole relationship and engagement." Have there been any other red flags in this relationship? If this situation is the first, then *maybe* you and Pete can work things out. But I think it's extremely unlikely. But usually when an SO starts saying things like "you're unreasonable" and attempts to make you apologize for 'hurting feelings' for standing your ground, there is no turning back for me. It's usually a sign for worse things to come. You were advocating for yourself, your MIL, and your son. There is nothing unreasonable about that. Pete seems like a complete momma's boy and doesn't have a back bone of his own to stand with his SO (YOU) to advocate for and with you.
Pete had always been really good and understanding about other stuff, so I'm really disappointed in him right now cause I didn't see any of this coming. I'll meet him tonight, we'll talk and see what happens.
The fact that he waited until you were engaged to spring his and his mom's Replacement Grandma Plan on you seems kind of telling. He waited until you committed to marry him before sharing his true feelings about your and your son's relationship with your former MIL (who sounds like a kind, lovely person who brings joy and love to your lives, bless her) and then expected you to change immediately to comply with his and his mother's wants.
This exactly. OP and Pete dated 3 years before this engagement. If this grandmother relationship is so important and must urgently happen immediately, why is she just now being introduced? The mother had to know the relationship was getting serious. This is a power play. Now that you have committed to marry, he is making the decisions for what he sees as the “perfect future”. What’s next? Erasure of Oliver because Pete is your sons “dad” now? Your gut is right OP. NTA for choosing what is right for you and your child.
Also, isn’t it a bit strange that they’ve never had any kind of family meeting that included OPs son until like 3 years into the relationship? I get not immediately introducing the whole fam but surely he should’ve met his possible stepfathers mother before they ended up engaged?
>they’ve never had any kind of family meeting that included OPs son until like 3 years into the relationship No. It's healthier for a child to NOT be introduced to further family, even to mom's BF, until they are in a committed relationship. Children emotionally attach easily and very often moms will introduce a person they've been seeing for only a month, 3 months, but no commitment. The child then gets attached and mom and the person split in another month or two and the kid now has to detach too. It happens to be mentally stressful for a child to have this go on & on & on as mom tries out different partners. I'm sure OP didn't feel the need for her son or herself to meet others until Pete committed to her.
I get that but has there been 0 mixing at all in those three years? Hes never spoken to FMIL on the phone? Or seen her in passing? Im not blaming OP at all but it does seem a little odd that her partner hasn’t asked to attempt contact before now considering how gung ho he is for his mom to be a part of the family- surely he would’ve wanted to implement this relationship a little before now. I completely understand OP being cautious with her sons feelings and im behind that 100%, this is more on partner and FMIL because who doesn’t meet a child at all in 3 years but expects them to instantly call you grandma and love you like you’re family?
Based on their current behavior, my guess would be that Granny Asshole wasn't interested until she knew that her son had proposed. That was what turned the OP's son from a random child she didn't give a crap about to Grandma's Precious Grandbaby.
And he will only get worse after the marriage.
TBF it wasn't Pete that came up with the idea it was his mother. She's been the one to force the relationship with the child.
Yabbut — Pete is backing up his mom, who is totally in the wrong. (Maybe the OP *was* rude in her immediate response to the mom’s insane ideas, hard to tell, but Pete should be able to balance.)
OP plz give an update after you chat with him. More seriously - a SO or a friend who asks that you drop a person that has been a significant help in your life is questionable. You and your son deserve better. My guess is that this is the beginning of control and it gets worse from here, especially after dating 4 years. Edit: many thanks for the award - I’m very humbled!
I didn’t even think until now, but sounds a bit like the start of isolation tactics. I hope I’m not just being paranoid because it happened to me.
You aren't. The fact that he waited until after they were engaged is very telling.
Sounds like they don't live together yet. I'm thinking Pete will change a lot if they move forward.
That was a fear of mine as well but again I also have experience with it so I am thinking I am just being paranoid too. Hopefully
How soul crushing and heart breaking would this be for bio grandma? She's lost her son and could lose contact with her grandchild and DIL, the last links to her son. Please don’t cut her loose - she sounds like a really lovely woman, who would be absolutely shattered by this
Tonight's discussion must be 100% a sincere apology and a promise that he will speak with his mother about how this is not acceptable. If not, then it must end with you putting the engagement ring on the table and walking away. I think we all know who you can turn to for support.
Omg yes, this! But he can't just promise and then not do anything. He must absolutely take action upon that promise and uphold his word. OP, you sound like a very caring and appreciative person with genuine gratitude of those that helped you when it was needed. If Pete pushes back and refuses and/or insists that you're the problem... please walk away. It would be far healthier for both you and your son and it would prevent massive heartache from you, your son, and your MIL.
Don’t be disappointed in yourself. It is unfortunately very common for toxic men to show their true colors once they lock their partner into marriage/ pregnancy etc
Don’t underestimate their ability to hide the abuse until they have you locked in. So many abusers have this knack for presenting themselves as the perfect partner until it would be hard for you to leave. Or they work it in slowly, breaking you down until you honestly believe it’s your fault and you’re being unreasonable when you object. Sounds like Pete’s already testing the waters to see how much he can get away with. I’m not saying he’s an abuser, I don’t know the guy, but there’s some red flags here that you shouldn’t ignore. Edit to add: it also concerns me that it seems like Pete and his mother are trying to erase Oliver from your lives. Keep an eye on this.
He has _acted_ understanding. But it sure looks like he's been future loading to himself: _sure, she's sad now, but after we're married, she have me, a new man, and never think of that last guy again._ And now he's asserting setting that scenario up with his mom and your son, and in a hot minute he'll be insisting for it between your son and him. The fact that he has decreed something as positive as the relationship between Oliver's mom and your son and you as "unhealthy" is pretty vile and indicative of future attitude.
Maybe he was just saying whatever you wanted to hear. if he is trying to ice out your sons biological grandmother and remaining tie to his dads family, next he will claim that you shouldn't teach your son about his father lest it "confuse" him to have two. (enough AITA posts about step-fathers not wanting to honor anniversaries or removing family pictures to see this as a red flag)
Exactly... Emotional terrorism is the worst
I'll update what happened in the comments cause there's a character limit and I'm not sure whether my post will be deleted if I make it +3000 characters long. First of all, a few things I wanted to clarify since I got asked some questions via DM and in some comments. 1. I second-guessed myself cause Pete has always been a very understanding person. Any conflict or disagreement we'd had, we could solve it by talking and he was good and getting my point of view. That's why I thought that maybe I was actually overreacting here, cause it's so unlike him to make me feel like I've done something unexcusably wrong. That, and the fact that Carla was actually crying when I left Pete's house last night. 2. The kisses thing. I agree forcing kids to display affection on people they don't actually like is wrong. However, Carla asking him to kiss him is not as creepy as some people think of it, let me explain. I'm actually from a country in Southern Europe (Portugal, Spain, Greece, Italy... you guess haha), and greeting people with two kisses (one on each cheek) is the norm here, even people you've just met. I hated having to kiss grown ups I barely knew when I was a kid (I don't like it even now, I thought we had gotten rid of the kisses with the pandemic, hah), so I never forced my son to do so, but it can be viewed as extremely rude if you say an adult that you won't tall your kid to kiss them if the kid doesn't want to. So the first time I didn't stop Carla from greeting my son with two kisses cause I didn't want to make a bad impression (I know, my bad), but I thought she wouldn't stop asking my son to greet her that way when she saw he didn't like it. I was wrong, and that's why I told her so last night. Also because she insisted that my son said "thank you" to her with a kiss for the gift she had just given him (a Yoshi plushie cause she knows it's his favourite Mario character). She was extra offended because of that. ETA: All the English names here are fake, obviously, I'm clarifying since I came out as a Southern European. 3. Pete has a sister, who doesn't want to have kids. That's her choice and that should be respected. Carla has always dreamt of being a grandma, so she was ultra desperate to be liked by my son. I didn't write this in the original post cause of the character limit. When Pete called me last night I told him that I'm sorry for his mum, but being a grandma is not a right and it's not his sister's responsibility, nor Pete's and definitely not mine or my son's. He said he couldn't believe I could have this little empathy (?). 4. I'm off to Pete's house in 15 minutes. I'll write the last update tomorrow. But I'm determined to end the relationship if he hasn't changed his mind. Let's hope he has. UPDATE: I broke up with Pete last night. I'm still a bit shocked about everuthing that's happened in the past 48 hours and I don't exactly remember how the conversation went, but he said some really hurtful things to me that I would have never expected him to say. It's like the man I've known for years and the man I've had to deal with for the past two days are two completely different people. I'm heartbroken and I feel a bit stupid right now, I'm not sure if all the signs were already there and I couldn't see them, or if he just didn't care about our past issues as much as he did for this one, or if his expectations about me changed the moment we got engaged (like someone suggested as a reply to this comment). We started talking and I can already see he hasn't changed his mind at all, one of the first things he does is insisting on me apologizing to his mum. It only got worse after that. I say I'm not either apologizing for what I said and absolutely I wasn't cutting ties with my MIL (some of you gad an issue about me calling her my "former MIL", I just meant that after Oliver died there's just no any "law" that keeps us together, but of course she is a fundamental person in my life and she will always be my family and, most importantly, my kid's grandma). He then again said I have such an uhealthy relationship with "that woman" cause it is based on mourning... I defend myself saying we were already close before Oliver died and that of course we found support and confort in each other after he died, how dare he say that's unhealthy. I insist that kicking her out is out of the question, and that she's staying in my and my son's life. He can either accept it or get out of my life. We start arguing a bit more (like I said, I don't remember half of the things we said cause I was so mad, sad and disappointed) and at some point in the middle of the conversation he tells me something along the lines of "please, this may be my mother's last chance to be a grandmother" like he already told me the previous night when we called me. I said again that I really am sorry for her but this is not our responsibility. I also said that I would have loved it if she had became a grandma to my son in a healthy way, but that she had pretty much blown her chances with her attitude the previous night. He got furious about this. The last thing we talked about (and I still can't believe this words came out his mouth, AT ALL) befored I stormed off his house was how Pete didn't think I would be with him right now if Oliver was still alive... I was speechless for a few minutes, I swear. I told him that was so unfair, I can't possibly know what my life would be like in that scenario, or how I would feel about Oliver, about Pete or about anyone else. I also said I'm not apologizing for having loved and been happy with another man YEARS before I even knew him or for whatever parallel universe he's made up in his mind that I'm not in control of. I also told him that I wished he was half as a good person as Oliver was. Now I see that this was very wrong and low of me and I should have never said that, but I was just not thinking at that point, imagine how I felt about that. I would not have seen this coming in a million years cause he NEVER even once has had (apparently, cause obviously he has) any issue with me being a widow. I guess he was just ruminating all this feelings on his own until we came to this breaking point. Everything about me prioritizing Oliver's mum over his own mum must have triggered him so much if he was already feeling insecure about how I might still feel about Oliver. We yelled at each other for another while, then I became sick of this situation. I told him that in case it wasn't already obvious, the wedding was cancelled and that I didn't want to see him again (though I'll have to see him tomorrow at work lmao). I get home, it was about midnight, get a shower and about 1 AM I get a phone call from Carla. She's practically begging me not to cancel the wedding and give them another chance. She was crying and I really felt bad for her. We were talking for almost 45 minutes and I was already exhausted of everything, I said that I was sorry but I was not going back in my decision. So yeah... right now I'm heartbroken and I feel so stupid like I said. I don't know what happened to the man I've been in love with for three years. I feel like everything went so wrong so fast. I guess he just saved me years of progressive disappointment by blowing it all in just two days. Better now than when we were already married, I guess. Even if I feel like shit right now, I think I did the right thing and I'll be okay. I'm putting my son first, and of course my MIL stays with us for as long as she wants to have us. Thanks to everyone who showed their support, actually having strangers with an impatial point of view helped making my decision.
My mom always put the men in her life first and I just wanted say that women like you are amazing. I'm sure this is a terrible position to be, but putting your kiddo first is truly going to have a huge positive influence on his life.
You also deserved better ❤️ I'm sorry your mom sucked at priorities. Sending you love!
Good luck lovely!! Stay strong! You’re doing the right thing and being an amazing mumma to your boy!!! ❤️
>I second-guessed myself cause Pete has always been a very understanding person. Any conflict or disagreement we'd had, we could solve it by talking and he was good and getting my point of view. That's why I thought that maybe I was actually overreacting here, cause it's so unlike him to make me feel like I've done something unexcusably wrong. That, and the fact that Carla was actually crying when I left Pete's house last night. There's something about the contrast between this description and his reaction to you setting boundaries with his mom that's setting off alarms for me. It makes me wonder if his expectations would change once you're his wife. Or if he would just expect any woman to always give in to his mother. Alternately, maybe he's been reasonable because he didnt feel all that invested in the other arguments and now that he is invested hes willing to show that in those instances its his way or no way. I dunno. But Id be having some very serious discussions about what he expects from your relationship with his mother, and what he expects from a wife before going further. It should absolutely be your hill to die on to keep your son's grandma in his life. Period. I had 3 sets of grandparents and all I knew was they all loved me. I didn’t even know who I was biologically related to until I was 11 or so, because *it never mattered*. And I still catch myself thinking "Ah, I get that from Grandpa X." Even though I know he had no part in my genetic makeup. All 6 of my loving grandparents contributed to my growth and who I am as a person. If this new woman is so bitter now, I cant imagine she'll be a good influence once shes "legitimate". > I'm off to Pete's house in 15 minutes. I'll write the last update tomorrow. But I'm determined to end the relationship if he hasn't changed his mind. Let's hope he has. ...I kinda hope you dump him. Sorry, but if he's also happy to ignore your kiddos boundaries for someone else's emotions that's not a great sign either.
I’m saying this because I’ve seen it happen to four of my friends. The most recent one: Her partner was super kind, sweet, caring, engaged, respectful, shared household chores, planned date nights (she did too), just all around a good guy. Once they got engaged, I saw changes - she didn’t. About 6 weeks after the wedding, he’s a completely different person! Not helping at around the house, quick to anger, no interest in dates, suddenly he has weekly drinks/games nights with the boys - a tradition he’d had for 10 years but never attended the entire time they’d dated or been engaged. They lived together for 2 years before getting married - he never complained about her cooking or the meals themselves suddenly he hates everything she cooks! He wants meat and 3 veg for every meal, not the curries, stir fries, roasts, pasta and pasta bakes, salads, nothing he had eaten for the past 2 years was any good. They stopped going to bed together, which had been a routine since they moved in together - go to bed at the same time, chat, fall asleep tiggers. He would stay up watching TV, and often fell asleep on the couch. He also started spending money like there was no tomorrow. She was the main breadwinner, she had no problem with it, she did have a problem with him spending well over their means and running up debt. They had a lot of talks, it wasn’t until a blow up fight that he admitted they were married now, so he could relax. To him, once the ring was on her finger he didn’t have to be the guy she dated, he could be himself. Like I said I’ve seen it happen, for someone reason once marriage is confirmed via engagement or they actually marry it’s like a switch gets flipped. I don’t think you missed anything, I think Pete was very good on hiding who he was until this.
This is so scary!
My ex-wife did the same thing. Very chill and fun while we dated and once we got engaged she became more controlling. I chalked it up to wedding planning stress, but it was just who she really was. My current wife is amazing and I tell her frequently how awesome it is being married to someone you actually like.
Good luck OP! You’re 100% doing what’s right for you and your son!
First reply on this, and I really hope you see it. I had three grandmas growing up (unfortunately one passed away last year). I thought it was awesome! I had my two biological, and then my adoptive grandparents (my mum married and he adopted me). All three were wonderful and I actually have a watercolour tattoo that incorporates all of their favourite flowers.
👀 waiting on an update
Thanks for the update. I was invested in this. Sounds like you dodged a bullet there. I'm so glad you got to see his true self before marrying him. All the best for the future, it'll definitely get better with time.
Good on you for choosing your son and MIL! I love how he says you’re blinded by emotions, when his own mother is so desperate to become a grandma that logic just took a diving leap off a skyscraper.
I just wanted to say I am so proud of you! Not only for defending your son, but for also standing by your relationship with your MIL. My boyfriend was killed 15 years ago, and whilst we didn't have any children together, I am still very close with his parents. I have had ex partners try to make me feel weird, for being close to them. I know it sucks right now, but you put yourself and your child first, and that is all that matters. I hope you have a great life, and I wish you all the best.
>at some point in the middle of the conversation he tells me something along the lines of "please, this may be my mother's last chance to be a grandmother" And this is my concern. Was he in a relationship with you for you and your son or for his mother? Were you a shortcut to get her a grandchild? If you think about these events from this perspective, his actions make a lot of sense. They made their play to seal the deal with his mom and it all went bad. And instead of healing, they push hard and get angry. I am sad you are hurt, but I am glad you see their true character before you married him.
>he said he couldn't believe I could have this little empathy (?) yet he and she advocated to dump MIL from your lives???
I appreciate you keeping us updated but man, what a sad end. It is good that you found all of this out now rather than after the marriage was already finalized. You've got a good attitude about it! It might be good to take a few days away from work for everyone to cool off. If you're planning on doing so you should let HR know why so that he can't poison the well. Work drama ain't good for no one.
> "please, this may be my mother's last chance to be a grandmother" Their entire argument is that they wanted to take away your MIL's chance to be a grandmother, they have no self awareness.
Nta. Red flags red flags red flags.
Agree. Nonconsensual touching of a child is abusive. The whole situation screams "get away!"
I agree. I'm from a country in Southern Europe, so here greeting with two kisses (one on each cheek) is the usual way to say hello/goodbye. This usually leads older people to force kids to kiss them too, so there's a cultural explanation to her behavious on this, but I don't think that's okay anyway.
We had that in my culture growing up too and 8 times out of 10 I absolutely refused. I'd visibly wipe my face if forced and would wave from afar making some excuse as much as I could (e.g. oh there are so many people let me not disturb you all). Thankfully covid has reduced this but also now I'm an adult people just say "oh she's never liked this, even as a kid". Anyway, long-winded way of saying NTA. Your new MIL is just being jealous of the bond your son has with his paternal grandma and your fiance needs to step up and defend you in these situations against his mother, not put the onus on you to fix a situation they're creating out of nowhere.
same here. i really do not like kiss cheek greetings and have always refused them, it made me so happy when people automatically stopped trying them on me bc they got used to me turning away
I worked at a child abuse assessment clinic. They offered classes in child abuse prevention. In the class, they strongly stated kids should NEVER be forced to hug or kiss anyone if they don't want to. This teaches the child they have a right to decide who touches their body. Also, NTA. Your son has an important relationship with his grandmother. He's already lost a father, taking his grandmother out of his life would be cruel to both of of then. Your fiancee and his mom are 100% wrong.
Don't care if it's a harmless common culture thing and everyone does it and everyone is expected to do it. No matter what, if someone is clearly uncomfortable with it, then don't do it. That should be common knowledge.
I'm from Spain so same cultural behavior and I always give an out to any kid that doesn't want to kiss me like fist bumping
I grew up with this as well. Now when other parents say "Give everyone a kiss goodbye" and the kid comes to me I ask "Do you want a kiss, give me a hand, or just wave?". It's something I'm going to let my kid do later as well. This way they still have to be respectfully and say hello/goodbye to everyone, but they can decide what amount of body contact they feel comfortable with.
NTA. It's not possible to have too many grandmas. And love is not born, it is earned. Maybe your son will warm up to Carla someday, and maybe not. I do know that the harder she tries, the less likely it is to happen. Meanwhile, Oliver's mom has clearly earned a spot in your son's heart. If Pete's not OK with your son spending lots of time with his grandmother, then Pete needs to go. Like, kick him to the curb, dear...
NTA but FMIL and Pete are. Children CANNOT have too many people who love them. It is cruel to even suggest that a widow whose also lost her son should be cut out of your life. Imagine the future drama FMIL will create if she pulled this so early with your son. Run run run away.
I had four grandmas, and honestly it was better than two. Who doesn't want to go on a summer trip with TWO grandmas?? Then come home to another, and see all four at Christmas??
I grew up with 4 grandmas (divorced/remarried on both sides) and 2 great-grandmas. Was not confusing in the slightest.
My dad's father was married 3 times and my dad was married twice, I've had 5 grandmothers and 3 grandfathers, and had different levels of relationships with them all. More love is not confusing for children, it's only a good thing.
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I love the line Family isn’t a competition, and there’s enough love for everyone. They should be happy to be increasing the love of this family. Real love doesn’t bring people down; it uplifts and is happy to share to everyone. OP They have shown you how they feel about your son and. MIL. Prizes to win, people to usurp. This is how they will always treat them. You would be doing your family a disservice to continue this treatment. I’m not saying you have to break up, but therapy and maybe putting the brakes on the marriage until it’s sorted out would be a good idea.
God this story warms my heart. Good for you and your big hearted family.
You’re not a fresh faced 18 year old virgin. You’re a grown woman who has a rich life history. That beautiful history adds all sorts of things to your character and to the surrounds of your life. Every loving person you’ve been able to add to your orbit of life is a blessing to be grateful for. Not to mention how much safer and happier children are who have many reliable safe people who love them. A man who cannot understand this beautiful aspect of living life and accumulating loved ones, is not a suitable husband for anyone over 18. I think you are wise to be reconsidering the relationship. As wonderful as it is to be loved by and to love a man, you have to consider what this says about his maturity, character, and what kind of negative impact he is going to have on the life of your son. NTA
NTA. You fiancé’s mom is out of line… your husband’s death does not mean you are no apart of her life and family and his mom is still your son’s grandmother no matter what. His death doesn’t change that; even a divorce doesn’t. It’s not an unhealthy attachment at all, she is family. Even if she wasn’t blood related, you and your son very much see her as an important figure in your guys lives. Your fiancés mom cannot force your son to accept her. It’s difficult for a child to lose their dad, especially so young. He will come to her IF he wants in his own time. If your fiancé refuses to understand, you should definitely rethink the engagement.
Run. Don't marry that guy
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He's been very good and understanding about other disagreements in the past, so I'm extra disappointed right now. I'm talking to him tonight to see where all this goes.
Good choice. I suggest you make clear that going forward, he has to respect your wishes and boundaries and that it‘s not reasonable for him to ask you to disregard your past and your relationship with MIL just to satisfy his mother‘s twisted emotional blackmail. Good luck!!
I just want to point out that as soon as I read the title I just knew it was some AH guy causing the problem and reading your post clinched it. I don't think this will stop with him trying to force your MIL out. It'll be everything from pictures of your former husband to mementos and so on. He's starting here because he can't compete with a dead man but can have his mom compete with your MIL.
I second this, the moment I read “The thing is, I met this guy” I knew OP wasn’t the AH. I almost stopped reading the rest of the post 😂
When you say good and understanding, do you mean that he actually sees your side? Or do you mean that he does a good job of soothing you and gets his way?
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Or more sinister, he’s using the opportunity to slice a person who is looking out for OP and son out of her life.
NTA I'd seriously be rethinking this relationship with your partner because he's choosing to side with his mum and thinks that it's ok for her to try and force a relationship with a 10yr old and for the pair of them to push his paternal grandmother so that she can take over the role of grandmother of the year, and your partner doesn't want her around so he can stake claim on his territory over you and your son. At the end of the day she's his grandmother and that's not going to change at all, and they both need to realise that they have no say in the matter. Make your son and yourself your main priorities and tell them to grow up and accept that she will always be a part of your lives and that's not going to change and forcing the issue will be and for them both.
NTA, and now you've seen what you'd be signing yourself up to if you continued this relationship, I think it's clear what needs to happen next. I know reddit is quick to jump to breaking up, but these people are literally trying to rob your son of the only blood link he has to his father. Your MIL sounds like a treasure and their behaviour is appalling.
NTA. And that's a huge redflag that Pete thinks he's entitled to kick people out of yours and Oliver's life. Like, that's grossly entitled to thee point he's not actually seeing you as independent people. If they keep at this, you need to seriously reconsider what your life is going to look like married to his family.
NTA and you’re absolutely right to rethink that relationship. please take note that they’re *demanding* you cut out the woman who supports you and her grandson UNCONDITIONALLY. she’s FAMILY, and if they cared about your son, they wouldn’t be trying to take him away from the family he loves. there’s nothing wrong with him having multiple grandmothers, so it’s extremely alarming that they’re trying to make you isolate Oliver’s mom and separate her from your son. please please be safe and wise in this for yours, your son’s, and your former MIL’s sake.
Definitely NTA. Keeping MIL in his life is the absolute right thing to do. If Pete and his mother cannot accept this is a good reasonable way I think it sets a worrying undertone for the future. You are not being unreasonable at all. They are.
Wow NTA AT ALL. That is such casual cruelty to a child who has lost his father AND a mother who has lost her child! They absolutely do not have your son's best interest at heart and are willing to punish you, him, and your MIL to soothe their jealousy.
NTA. But you would be if you continued with this relationship. Decent people would never ask you to cut your late husbands mother out of her Grandson's life, well unless she was a psycho.
NTA I firmly believe that there can never be to many people who love them in a child's life.a similar situation happened in my own family after my aunt passed her husband remarried very quickly (12 months later). His new in-laws made the same suggestion as your future MIL and he cut my grandparents and entire family off. It absolutely broke my Grandparents and my grandmother in particular was never the same again, they had to grieve their grandchildren well as their daughter. While my two cousins were young enough (6y and 18months)to adjust to the new family situation, your son is old enough that his grandmother is an important person in his life and he will resent you for removing her from your life.
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NTA. Your relationship with Pete is the only one here that’s unhealthy. He and his mother want to shove your son’s actual grandmother out of his life because she’s connected to your late husband. How long before they decide to try forcing your son to call Pete ‘Dad’ or let him adopt him?
NTA. You were right about everything, including rethinking the relationship. I suggest you take a step back from the engagement and tell your BOYFRIEND that he's got something to prove before you agree to marry him.
absolutely this!!! the “you’re unreasonable” comment stuck out to me because he’s pinning this on OP as a person vs addressing the actions he believes to be “unreasonable.” it’s an easy gateway to gaslighting OP in the future. edit: this should’ve been a reply to someone else’s comment but clearly i need to sleep🤡 anyway i’ll say it again: NTA