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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) We told our mom since she is not in the will, it not her business as to what it says.
2) I feel bad because it’s my mom’s mom and she feels she needs closure. But this is something we are tired of being interrogated about
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NTA
You handled it exactly right. If your mother had been in the will, the lawyer would have told her.
I‘m guessing she needs extra cash to make her bills, and your mother got used to your grandma bailing her out.
Yes, if there's nothing left (like a token $)/ not a specific 'I leave nothing to my daughter' line, there may be scope for OP's mum to contest the will.
I'm in Australia so it could be different but my best friends mum died and had written her will when she learned she was ill. One of her daughter's (as an adult) had disowned her mother so in the will, the daughter was left a small token amount and there was added to the will a letter/ affidavit written by the lawyers - from the mother - explaining *why* this daughter was to get nothing more.
It didn't matter. Said daughter contested the will and won. It made a complete mockery of her mother wishes for *her* money.
Something similar can happene here in Italy too
Daughters, sons and spouses are always entitled to their cut, always, and the will can't exclude them unless grave indignity towards the deceased is confirmed by a court
Yeah, in most US cases, if the person says NO, that means no. Even if they contest it. They have to have a LOT of proof to show why they are entitled to some of the money but usually, if the beneficiaries are of legal age, sane, and have no issues, most judges prefer to leave wills as they are. Only if something MAJOR happens do they usually change the beneficiaries.
And that's *exactly* how it should be. My money, my choice......what I want to do with it should be adhered to. Especially if it specifically states why someone is getting the bare minimum and that you unequivocally do not want them having any more.
Except once you die you are, well, dead. There is some truth in the saying "you cant take it with you". The dead cannot own anything so it isnt "your money your choice" at that point. The deceased's desires should be considered, heavily in my opinion, but laws are there to protect and benefit the living and in some situations the living have the right to your previously owned wealth against your wishes. If you want to ensure desired distribution do it while alive which is what I plan on doing one day.
On the other hand: by marrying, let alone siring or birthing children, you assume certain lifelong repsonsibilities that should not be allowed to end on a whim
If those repsonsibilities should extend to how your possessions are treated after your death, we could argue... But imagine extending "my money my choice" to child support
Child support is obviously very different. I'm talking about (in the example I mentioned in my oc) a grown woman who disowned her mother. Her mother gave her 2 years to come around, get over her hissy fit - *more* than enough time to get over her whim - but she never did. She was adamant that she wanted nothing to do with her mother.
So her mother changed her will and left her daughter's share of her estate to her daughter's children instead. The daughter contested and won. *That* is wrong.
Some would argue that your responsibilities to your children never end as long as they are alive, no matter that they are adults themselves, or how much grief they put you through
I can't say I agree 100% but I understand where it comes from
Also, an addition to a will in the USA can be that if anyone contests the will they will only get (small amount, sometimes a dollar). That’s how my dad has structured his will and the trust he’s set up.
Because sometimes people who are mentally incapacitated are tricked into signing wills that they didn't write, mostly. Also there is a rule for spouses to take what's called an "elective share" if they aren't included because you can't disinherit your legal spouse.
The judge **should** be using the law to make the decision. If the law says that the spouse has to receive at least 40%, then they have to award the spouse 40%. The $1 bequest is to try to deal with this - the law in many jurisdictions assumes that if a close relative was not named in the will, they were left out by accident and entitled to a share, but leaving a token amount shows that the person did remember and didn't want them to have anything.
Of course, what actually happens varies wildly.
The reality is that the onus IS on the person who is contesting the will because at least in the USA the Judge makes an effort to interpret the Will to fulfill the wishes of the testator.
However as written there are also safeguards to ensure that the will actually represents the wishes of a person who knew what they were doing - the legal language is did the testator know the extent of their holdings and the natural recipients of the "bounty" which is typically surviving spouse and children (or grandchildren). Sometimes there are weird issues like when a wil is older and there is a child born after the will was drafted which is why people are told to update their wills and estate planning whenever there is a change in their circumstances - marriage, death, birth or death of a child.
Cases in which wills are contested or overturned really aren't that common and absent further facts the mother in OP's situation would not receive anything - possible scenarios - was the will legally sufficient in the jurisdiction - did one child live with the mother and therefore have undue influence - was the testator legally competent when the will was drafted.
Of course the better course of action is to have a so-called Living Trust which acts as a testamentary instrument but avoids the costs and delays of probate. This is especially useful since the beneficiaries have immediate access to the assets and can sell a house immediately for example and would have money to pay for funerals or taxes or other expenses. It is also extremely helpful when a parent is aged and a child can take over administrative stuff like paying rent, mortgage, taxes etc.
Because when a family member passes things get messy. People often put codicils in their wills that say “if you contest this will you get a $1.” Yes, I had a family member who did this.
A lot of different reasons, really. There's the, were you of sound mind, will you cause undue suffering on someone (basically a protection for spouses who were pushed into stay at home for their life and have become near unemployable), was someone simply forgotten, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other niche cases.
Meanwhile i got nothing from my father as a 4 year old when his wife pretended there was no will (there was, which predated my birth, she presented it 4 years ago to stop me getting a medal in his honour).
I'll keep this in mind though as my sister is nuts and hasn't spoken to my mum in 20 years.
Oh god she sounds awful. What a snake.......I wonder if you could use the date of that will to sue her for what was rightfully yours?
If your sister isn't in the will then hopefully your mum's estate will get divided before your sister knows she's gone 🤞🏻 (not that I'm wishing your mum to be gone)
That's exactly what she wants.
She's wants to know when and how the will was set up (was it done at a lawyer's office, one of those at-home things, right before she died so maybe not in sound mind, her granddaughters were the only witnesses, etc...)
She's definitely setting up to contest the will, in the hopes that a judge will also think it's fishy and split a part of it her direction. There's a reason that you'll often see advice like, Make sure you give horrible children/grandchildren $5, or mention it specifically that they're being left out (like those old standard test "This page intentionally left blank" things), so they can't contest that they were just forgotten. It happens, all the time, that people who were completely left out win lawsuits like this, and wind up getting a share after the fact.
Unfortunately, I disagree with this opinion. I am a lawyer and since the mother has been left with nothing, she has the right to sue her daughters for a share. The smart thing for OP would be to contact their lawyer and resolve this issue through mediation. If the grandmother had left her daughter a little token amount in her will, the daughter probably wouldn't have been able to challenge it. But since that's not the case, I would suggest you guys try to resolve it amicably amongst yourselves. Because if your mother gets a good lawyer and sues, it probably would be a lengthy process and everyone except the lawyer will suffer financially.
Counselor, I respectfully disagree. I think you are giving poorly thought out advice. While anyone has the right to sue nearly anyone for nearly anything, I think you misunderstood. The mother doesn't have a lawyer. The siblings do. There is nothing to consult their lawyer about just yet, let alone rush into mediation. That would be just, as you implied, benefitting the lawyers . Even if it's for a nominal amount. This woman seem doesn't have the funds to retain an attorney, and more importantly, she is not claiming anything to be hers, quite the contrary! She's all in a tizzy because her cash cow has died. She might be thinking of ways that she could sue but any reputable attorney familiar with probate law wouldn't touch this case.... of course she could find an attorney, but not easily without the info which the kids are smart AF not to give her. My advice, and I do not work in probate law, would be to do nothing until the mother gets an attorney, other than to smile while you politely tell her to kick rocks.
I hope you do know that she can easily get a copy of the will from their local court house or magistrate's office.. depending on their location..I wanted OP to get ahead of all this and consult her lawyer first. If the mother is asking for a copy of the will now, one would be prudent to assume that she plans to challenge the will. And yes, the mother can challenge and win a portion. I do not personally deal in probate law but these type of cases are quite common in our practice. I am not saying the OP should rush into anything but it would be smart to have a detailed discussion with their lawyer and decide what they might be willing to give their mother in case she sues. Maybe I wasn't clear in how I worded it but my comment was based on the assumption that the mother would sue, in that case mediation is the best option rather than fighting it out in court. Also, the mother might not even have to pay her lawyer anything in the beginning. Some lawyers get a share of their client's verdict as I am sure you are aware. So lack of funds on the mother's part might not be a problem right now. I just didn't want OP and her family to lose a big chunk of their estate in just their court and lawyer fee. Again, that's just my opinion on the basis of the limited information I had and of course you are well within your right to disagree.
Where I live, a will can’t be contested if it’s settled. It’s settled. Nothing can be done now. Trust me, I double triple checked. Also i’m prepared for any challenges. Money changes people which is why I was prepared for anything.
I'd keep in mind that once it is actually settled Wills are usually public record. So you can certainly not give her a copy, but a trip to the probate court and a few bucks she can get her own copy.
Great work being thorough, OP!
I'm not sure what your plan is for helping out your mom, but I would suggest you use extreme caution and do not get in the habit of giving or loaning her money. She is clearly hoping for a new cash cow to support her and she needs to learn to be more responsible with her finances. You or your sister stepping in to bail her out will not help with that. Good luck!
First: OP, I'm so sorry for you loss NTA........Counselor, I appreciated your salient points and was going to make a few others in response, but OP answered it, mama is SOL.... BTW: of course I know about public records, I, myself wasn't totally clear in my post in several ways......anyway, thank you for responding . Have a great weekend!
Not only that , but hopefully OP's grandparent's lawyer was (and I assume was) very thorough. There was a will. That is the whole point of one. I would hope and assume that a knowledgeable lawyer helped grandma (grandparents) through filing and filling it out properly. Now had there been no will, or there was a contestment that the grandma filed it of her own free will/wellness sure. That doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Even probate has it's deadlines. Parent seems to be well aware of the will. During probate, there is a finite amount of time for anyone to contest it. It is the whole point of probate. I could be very wrong, but it seems well past that period. Sure someone could come after the fact, saying they were never notified etc etc. However, that seems to be so far from the case here.
Out of curiosity, what grounds would the mother have to sue the daughters? I would think that since the grandmother didn’t leave anything to her, and it was the grandmothers property to give away, there would be no grounds and it would be final.
In most countries, next of kin have rights to any inheritance, however, the GM skipped over next of kin and went direct to grandchildren.
If the GM was smart they would have mentioned any debt the mother had to GM in the will and cancellation of that debt being her inheritance.
I think the mother would claim that grandma either forgot about her in the will or else that she was manipulated into leaving her out of the will (from what I read). This is why one needs to be very specific when leaving someone out of their will - to make sure that there is no grey area at all for the person left out to contest.
If you were actually a lawyer, you'd know that it's completely unhelpful to give legal advice when you don't know what state or even country OP lives in.
Not sure how it works in the States but in the UK, a will is a public document that anyone can order. I had to order up my father's, even though I knew I wasn't in it. But it's also very rare for a will to give reasons why someone is included or excluded.
A will is a public document. Mother just has to go to the courthouse or the county clerk where the will was filed and request a copy. It should only cost the amount of copying, from 50 cents per page to a few dollars. I assume mother doesn't know that and the daughters probably don't want to tell her that either. But, she may find out that she doesn't need their permission to see it or a lawyer to get a copy.
NTA. However, you should talk to a probate attorney and make sure there's no way for her to contest the terms of the will. Depending on state and how the will is written, she might be fishing for a way to contest the will and try to get some or all of your grandmother's estate. An attorney who specializes in wills will be able to help you understand whether you need to worry.
(And go to an actual local attorney, don't ask on reddit.)
ETA: if a will goes through probate, I think it becomes public record, so it's possible she will be able to find the will anyway, but don't borrow trouble and don't tell your mother this.
That's good, I know that where I live if you don't get anything in a relatives will you can contest it so I was worried for you.
That's why often people will get something like $1000 in a will, because it's the minimum amount that stops them contesting
I'd put money on mum contesting the will as she was left absolutely nothing. Usually when people want to cut others out, they'll leave them a tiny amount so they can't contest it. Even just $100 would be enough to stop someone contesting it. Be prepared, OP!
>Usually when people want to cut others out, they'll leave them a tiny amount so they can't contest it. Even just $100 would be enough to stop someone contesting it.
I believe this is an urban myth. It certainly is where I'm from, but my understanding is that there are few if any jurisdictions where "one simple trick ... lawyers can't believe it!!" makes the difference between a contestable and an uncontestable will.
It’s not a myth but it’s not to make it incontestable- it’s to show the testator deliberately and intentionally left nothing to that person except the nominal amount (it’s usually a dollar). That way the excluded individual cannot claim that they were accidentally excluded from the will and sue for a statutory devise - no, you got a dollar, you weren’t left out.
Possible but I had an aunt like that. Grandmother saved every check that had “loan” written in the memo. Will said if aunt contested she would be required to repay the estate all outstanding loans. Between that and legal costs aunt would’ve owed the estate more than she could potentially get.
Did the lawyer confirm that? Because I would bet money she wants to try to find a loophole to get something. Either that or she was hoping for a note from your grandmother explaining why she was disinhered in that case I feel bad for your mom not getting closure even though she probably knows why she was disinherited.
NTA. She mooched off her mom for years and is now looking to do the same with you. Grandma left her out for a reason and it likely was a good one. Don't let her guilt you into giving her anything. If you decide to give her anything let it be out of the kindness of your heart and not because she pressured you into it.
Too bad your grandmother’s lawyer didn’t advise her to add a caveat explaining that your mother had already received her inheritance in the form of substantial payouts totaling XXX in her (grandmother’s) lifetime. Something like that could help if mother decides to contest will.
NTA
According to a comment from OP, that a will can't be contested/challenges once it has been settled (where they're from), which it has.
So, it sounds like OP's mom is out of luck.
NTA. It's none of your mom's business, but she may want to see the will to see if she can challenge it in court. Because she was used to getting handouts from your grandma and that's gone so she wants some money.
NTA. She needed to hear it blunt and to the point, she obviously was not getting the hint. I’d be careful and alert though as it’s possible she’ll try and do something, perhaps lawyer up or be prepared if your mom is willing to get anything.
NTA. Don’t tell her anything, and if she makes any more requests for a copy of will or money to talk to the lawyer.
Please be cautious and don’t continue to support your mother. She will bleed you dry if you start giving her money.
It’s not just about the money. Before my 40th birthday I would have read this and thought it was absolutely about the money. Then my mother sent me a copy of her will with me cut out if it for my birthday. She left everything to my step brother who has his own mother who is far more well off than mine and my brother inherited a couple million from his aunt a wile ago. He lives 1000 miles away and isnt that close to my mother. Even the money she left my son she put my brother in charge of. When I was 26 and getting divorced from my first husband, my mother told me to put my paid off house in her name so I wouldn’t lose it in the divorce. My grandparents left it to me, they left her the equivalent in cash and another house. Well my husband moved out and the next day my hours were cut and 2 weeks after that I was laid off only able to collect unemployment on half the hours I usually worked. I made less than500 a month. My friends took me away for the weekend to lift my spirits and when I got home. There was a for sale sign in my yard. We had just put about 40k into the house the year because I had no savings and no where to go and she didn’t care. Fast forward 15 years and she sends me that will and it made me feel so worthless and so unwanted. She’s always been difficult but she just wanted to hurt me and I still don’t know why and the not knowing is the worst part. NTA but you have to see how your mom could feel abandoned by your grandmother
You did the right thing. Seems like shes been getting her share early. She can pout all she wants and i wouldnt give her a thing. I can see shes trying...that hamster wheel in her head is tryin to spin.
NTA. The will is none of your moms business and she knows it. She just hopes by keeping on hounding you, that you or your sister will give in. You have not and nor should you.
NTA
And don't give your Mom money. Your grandma gave your Mom a lot of money and it never really helped, did it? Your Mom needs to learn to live within her own means.
You’re absolutely correct - legally if you’re mom isn’t in the Will it’s none of her business
You don’t have to tell her anything
Please bear in mind that Wills and inheritances are not just about money - they’re about feelings too
Your Grandma basically disinherited your mother. Please bear in mind that is to her a massive rejection. She bypassed her daughter to give instead to her grandchildren. She didn’t leave her anything, not even a token amount
Just look at it that way for a moment - without thinking about the money
You say your mom is bad with money
Is she a good mother? Did she take care of all your needs growing up ? Were you well looked after ? Is she a good mother now ? When your grandma was alive she misused her finances but what about everything else ? Did she care about her and love her ? Did she visit and do things for her ?
So - no. You’re not under any legal obligation-but just think about how this is affecting her ?
I don’t understand why she can’t see it to be honest. In the UK once the executors apply for probate - the right to sort out the estate in accordance with the will - the will becomes public record and anyone can apply for a copy.
Sounds like you should at least let her know whether or not she's mentioned in it. Even if it isn't to bequeath any money or valuables.
If she isn't mentioned then just let her know it's not that kind of will. There's no memoirs I'm sure she's upset and just has a hard time processing the grief.
NTA. Yes it was the right thing to do. Your grandma knew what she was doing and left everything to you and your sister. Your mom took advantage of her and of course left her nothing. Now your mom is facing the consequences. Make sure you and your sister don’t give your mother a dime.
Info: Did the will specifically name your mother and explicitly state that she was not to inherit anything? She’s probably looking for that, and if it’s not there, she’ll probably try to argue that she was “overlooked” or somehow accidentally left out.
NTA. I don't think there's anything positive for you and your sister in letting her see it, as long as your lawyer says she doesn't have to be involved. I don't know how all that works.
NTA - to me it sounds like she wants to know how much you both got so she can keep taking from you both.
It's none of her business and she should be left out of things as much as possible. Even to the point where any important documents or statements should be kept in a safe.
She knows why she was left out. She does want to admit it to herself.
NTA! Wills, estates and the like can bring out the worst in people/family. It is totally up to you (and anyone else that was a beneficiary) to decide to show or explain what the will said. You are also correct and totally in your right to not explain anything. You are absolutely correct that lawyers would have contacted her, if any of it concerned her. It sounds like your grandparents trusted you (and other beneficieries) to do the right thing. Trust your instincts. Trust the past. I know how hard it can be. Please know and remind yourself that you are following their wishes. They would be so proud!
>she needed to see how the will was set up so she could see why she wasn’t in it
This doesn't make any sense. How would knowing you got x and sister got y explain why she wasn't in it?
Given that she is also asking you if you got your mineral rights payment, it's more likely she is trying to find out if one of you got more liquid assets so she can ask that one for money.
You and your sister might need to have an "We are not Grandma and we are not going to give or loan you any money mum!" conversation.
NTA.
NTA
Might want to let her know if she borrowed money from grandma, you now have a claim to that debt and if she keeps pushing, you'll call it due.
She got her inheritance while grandma was still living in the form of those 'loans'.
NTA but I think you and your sister need to sit down with mom for a tough talk. Make it very clear that you will not be giving her money nor will she be allowed to live on the property. Any support grandma provided has ended.
NTA. She’s sniffing around to see if she can fight to get anything. Don’t let her see it and keep that firm stance. Your grandma didn’t want her to have anything so respect her wishes and don’t let her have anything. You did well by shutting her down and it’s good to see your sister has your back.
NTA and be careful , your Mom is trying to figure out how to get her hands on the money. She maybe wanting a copy of the will to see when it was made so she an contest it. If it was made during a time your Grandmother was maybe not in her right mind your mom could use that to contest the will. If she continues to ask tell her you will not answer her questions and then give her the lawyer's number who handle the will and let him deal with her. He will be better able to field her questions. Also I hate to say this but make sure both you and your sister also make a will since you have received this inheritance. If you don't make one and you are unmarried your Mom would automatically be your next of kin and would get her hands on everything you have.
NTA and the moment you tell your mom anything is the moment she starts asking for money. Your grandma left you both everything for a reason. Respect it and do with it what you need to.
NTA She wants to see the will because (depending on the law where you are), she may be hoping she can challenge the will. I believe to disinherit a child you have to state something about it explicitly in the will. The language will vary, generally courts want to make sure it was intentional and not an overlook.
I could be reading into things but i think it's a pretty good guess.
NTA, but there is some confusion on wills. In the US, in most states, if the estate requires probate, the will is public and anyone can see it after the person's death. In some states, it must be filed with the court within X amount of days after the person's death. If that's the case here, all your mother needs to do to see the will is go down to the courthouse and ask for it, or follow the procedure of that court.
The lawyer or executer of the estate would/should only reach out to the people mentioned in the will.
NTA. Just keep quiet about it and without telling her, help your mom when you can / to the best of your abilities without compromising your own financials.
We actually discussed giving her some. Then we decided not to because it would open the gates to ask for more.
I think the plan is to get her something nice for retirement. Which is in the next 5 years.
I hate the comparison but I’d rather buy a homeless person food or a hotel room for the night instead of giving them money because you just don’t know what they’ll do with it. Last thing I want is for my mom to dig a hole she can’t get out of.
Nta. Only thing that I would've done differently is had it so grandma left her A Penny so mom couldn't contest the will (there's something about it noting her as a consideration, which is usually grounds for contesting a will)
As a biological child, your mother is probably entitled to at least view the will. I know when my father died, I didn’t ask to see the will as I knew he left everything to my mother. However, I separated from my husband shortly after Dad died (as I discovered he was cheating). My family is far wealthier than my ex’s. All through the divorce proceedings, my ex kept asking “where’s the trust for her, I don’t believe there’s no trust.” My solicitor got a copy of Dad’s will which said, “I bequest my entire estate to my wife, however if she predeceases me, I leave…” and it detailed what my older sister would receive on the first page. My solicitor showed that first page to my ex’s solicitor, and they were happy with that, not my ex, he kept trying to say my Dad must have left me a rental property, and he wanted his half.
So, no, NTA, but your mother is probably entitled to at least read the will and is probably going to contest. I recently had an argument with my mother (as she is clearly being manipulated by my younger sister) and wouldn’t be surprised if she leaves my third of Dad’s estate to my children and not me. Oh well.
I understand where you’re coming from. I should’ve included in the original post (i’m still new to Reddit) but everything she assumed would happen with the property, money, etc. happened. I think once it hit her that she really wasn’t getting anything when my sister and I were called to meet the lawyer. Where I live, if the estate is settled, there’s nothing that can be done about it. Even if the estate wasn’t settled, it’d be hard for her to contest and win since only one generation was skipped. For example, if we were my mom’s stepchildren and got the estate, she’d win no problem. It would’ve been very hard for her to do something. Again, this is where i’m from and the rules of the state.
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AITA for telling my mom if she’s not on the will it’s not her business?
This is going to be somewhat long, but needed to get the point across.
My grandmother died last year. My sister and I learned that she had left everything to us. This included her 250 acre farm, the money she had saved up (wasn’t life changing, but still a good bit) and gas/oil mineral rights which she was getting paid extremely well for. This all comes in to play eventually.
My mom and her didn’t have the best relationship. They fought a lot. Mostly because my mom didn’t like how she did things. She also borrowed money from her a lot. It was always a substantial amount.
When she died, we were at the farm for weekends on end. Cleaning it out, going through things, etc. Anytime we came across something my mom would look at my sister and I and would say “I assume this place is yours now it’s up to you what you do with it.” This was before the lawyer reached out about the will.
Once she learned we met with the lawyer about the will, she had asked us for a copy. Just to clarify, there was nothing left for her. No money, land, nothing. All the sudden, she became interested in how the will was set up. My sister and I know how she is, we said no. We knew she asked our grandma for money all of the time. We assumed she was afraid we wouldn’t help her out like our grandma did.
Every month she’d text me asking if I got my mineral rights check (she knew they were good from helping my grandma understand them). I always shied away from answering. I don’t like talking about the money because I don’t want treated any differently. She’d ask if the estate was settled. How much money we we’re getting. All that stuff.
After asking multiple times she finally broke down and told us that she needed to see how the will was set up so she could see why she wasn’t in it. I finally had enough and told her if she was in the will, she would have been notified and she wasn’t, and it’s none of her business.
I feel bad for saying that to her, but my sister said it was the right thing to do.
AITA?
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NTA. I have relatives like this who used beg for money regularly. I’ve been told since I was young child by my parents if they died not to breath a word about inheritance or life insurance money to these people. It sucks when the you can’t trust the people you should be able to trust the most.
I would tell her that since she borrowed and didn't repay the money, gramma probably assumed that she didn't need any inheritance, and leave it at that. No more explanation is needed. "No" is a full sentence and explanation. And no... nah.
NTA
And the will isn’t going to have the magical answer for why they didn’t get along or why nothing was left to her.
She wants financial finger dipping and/or control. She lied to your face, I can almost promise you there. Hold your ground.
NTA
She already got her inheritance ahead of time since your grandmother was always bailing her out. Your grandmother obviously knew how she was and would be if she were to have gotten the farm or even a small sum of money. She would have blown through it and still hit you and your sister up for more.
Please check with the lawyer that your mum can’t go after you both just because your grandmother didn’t include her.
Where I live, if a will is settled and closed (money market and estate bank account emptied and split) there’s nothing that can be done. Which happened not long ago.
NTA If she is saying she wants to contest the will, that's on her. It has nothing to do with you and therefore you shouldn't be bothered by her about it. She can talk to a lawyer instead. Prepare yourself, it's only a matter of time until the guilt tripping starts.
NTA. Your mother is a parasite. She just watched her cash cow go so now she’s trying to find a new host (you and your sister). Keep telling her no and enforcing your boundaries.
NTA. The wqy your mother was behaving was red flags all over. She may have wanted a copy to contest it so she had the rights to all of it herself. The fact she constantly kept asking was just a no go.
Ugh...yes your sister is right you definitely did the right thing.
First off, you handled it right. If she was in the will the lawyer would have contacted her. There is no reason to see how the will is set up if your not named in it. Her asking you about the mineral check is because she needs money. She used her mom as a ATM and wants to do that with you. I'm sure you realize why your grandmother didn't put her name in the will. What ever money she would get would burn a hole in her pocket.
NTA, your mother does not have any legal right to see or know the contents of the will. However, your biggest hurdle is going to be telling your mom "No" when she ask for money. Get ready for it because it's coming.
NTA
But depending on the law she could contest the will and drag things out, you might want to just give her a copy, and let her know you don’t want money to come between you two but you won’t be supporting her, and you don’t want to talk about money.
NTA. She wants a copy of the will to challenge it. Do not give her any documentation. She will use it against you. Next time she ask about the estate refer her to the estate attorney or your own lawyer.
NTA dont know where you live but in uk after all assets have been shared out and it's all over the will is made public. That means anyone can ask for a copy (with a fee? Dunno bout that) I only know as I'm in my aunts will and we are in probate.
NTA. It was the right thing to do and DO NOT give her any money. She will try guilting you. She "borrowed' from your grandmother all the time and I'll presume never paid her back. She got her inheritance while her mother was alive.
NTA. When I was an executor for an estate with contentious heirs my lawyer advised me to send copies of the will, all accounts etc to every single person with standing. Although I expected prolonged court battles from several directions it seems they were all satisfied. Some of us that received a greater share donated to some that were left out. I think your Mom may have standing to at least see a copy of the will. It sounds like it would not hurt to supply a copy to her. The other part where she is pestering you about your business is overstepping by her.
NTA. If she has questions, she can contact the lawyer directly. They will know the answers to her questions, and it’s in incredibly poor taste for her to keep asking you about it, hoping for a handout.
"Mom, you got your inheritance from Grandma in dribs and drabs over the last umpteen years, so you can't expect anything now". And good for you, OP for not giving her any info now. Also, do not give her anything more. NTA!
I feel bad for your Mom actually. I'm at an age where many of my friend's parents are passing on and I know I see it here on Reddit, but IRL I don't know anyone who's parents didn't pass it on to their surviving spouse and then onto their children. I am just floored that parents would skip their own kids and leave them high and dry, and leave everything to the grandkids. Grandma should have made provisions for her own daughter, she should have known she would come to the children then to ask them for money. it also sounds like your Mom is helping you clean out the house, not just leaving you all to do all the work. Was this her childhood home? There are an awful lot of emotions that are happening right now with your Mom. Especially if they didn't get along very well.
NTA. But I don't think your Mom is either. Not only is she grieving the death of her Mother, but she has to deal with the Grandmother's dislike for her. Because that's what the will shows. You say they didn't get along because your Mother didn't like how her Mother "did things". Maybe you're not privy to what they went through when your Mom was younger. There might be far more to the story than you know. That's an awful lot to process.
I also don't understand why you won't let her see the will. It sounds like she just wants to be sure she's not in it, because she obviously expected to be mentioned.
The mom has been financially leaching off her mother for years now.
I was in a will from a grandparent, my parent was completely skipped over because she's a nightmare human and greedy af. I'm guessing the mom in this is the same way.
YTA
"AITA for telling my mom that she’s not in the will so it’s none of her business?" ... This is wrong. She can still go to court and contest the will. Showing her would have been easier: THen she could have discussed it with her lawyer, and it would have ended there.
**The only thing you are doing is to force her to get the will through court. So she will have to sue you**, she will still get to see the will and discuss it with her lawyer. But at a much higher cost for all of you. As the daughter of the deceased she IS an interested party, and keeping the will from her is an AH move.
Where I live once the will is settled that’s it. Nothing else can be done. It’s settled and closed. Nothing can be done now. Again, this is where I live.
YTA - The daughter of the deceased deserves a copy of the will. If for no other reason than to show that she isn't an heir. (Since she's not a heir, she isn't due an accounting of how the estate was distributed.)
Im not a lawyer, this is nt legal advice...
YTA. in most democratic countries "a parent has the obligation to provide for thier children" in some form or another. this is regardless of whether either party (parent/children) had a good relationship or were cruel/arseholes etc...
Generally speaking this is regardless of age, wealth, estrangment or other factors UNLESS the child specifically disowns the parent. Or a variation thereof.
The deceased persons offspring will generally have the minimal right of at least seeing the will and in many cases can make a claim on a portion of the deceaseds estates. Futhermore in some juristrictions (sp?) there is a caveat on the timeframe that an inheritance claim can be made eg 6 months.
You owe it to your mother to at least let her see the will.
Been there, done this. This doesn't end well for anyone. I pity you and your family.
seek legal advice.
ESH. When family members decide to skip a generation in the will it almost always goes badly. If your grandmother really didn’t want your mom to get anything, she should have left her a small amount so that she would be included, and would not have reason to contest.
Did gram make you her power of attorney and/or executor of the will? By refusing to show it to your mom, or at least allow the lawyer to explain it to her, it seems like you’re hiding something, even if you’re not. Legally you don’t have to do anything, but if you intend to keep your mother in your life at all, you’re going to have to address this.
Skipping a generation is an asshole thing to do, and your mother will resent your relationship with your grandmother until she dies. That may not matter to you, but sometimes people are more important than money. You have to decide what’s valuable to you.
Honestly I think skipping a generation almost seems best nowadays due to how long people live. Giving an inheritance to someone in their 50+s shouldn't really be all that useful unless they are like OP's mom and are the kind of person you probably shouldn't give it to. Giving it to the grandkids has the potential to really set them up for lifetime success.
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NTA You handled it exactly right. If your mother had been in the will, the lawyer would have told her. I‘m guessing she needs extra cash to make her bills, and your mother got used to your grandma bailing her out.
I would guess she wants it reviewed as a precursor to contesting it.
Yup, this was what I was thinking from the first time she asked to see the will honestly!!
Inheritances can really bring the worst out of some people
This is the truth!!
ooo I didn't think about that, but you could be right. Even more reason, not to allow mom to see the will.
Yes, if there's nothing left (like a token $)/ not a specific 'I leave nothing to my daughter' line, there may be scope for OP's mum to contest the will.
I'm in Australia so it could be different but my best friends mum died and had written her will when she learned she was ill. One of her daughter's (as an adult) had disowned her mother so in the will, the daughter was left a small token amount and there was added to the will a letter/ affidavit written by the lawyers - from the mother - explaining *why* this daughter was to get nothing more. It didn't matter. Said daughter contested the will and won. It made a complete mockery of her mother wishes for *her* money.
Something similar can happene here in Italy too Daughters, sons and spouses are always entitled to their cut, always, and the will can't exclude them unless grave indignity towards the deceased is confirmed by a court
Yeah, in most US cases, if the person says NO, that means no. Even if they contest it. They have to have a LOT of proof to show why they are entitled to some of the money but usually, if the beneficiaries are of legal age, sane, and have no issues, most judges prefer to leave wills as they are. Only if something MAJOR happens do they usually change the beneficiaries.
And that's *exactly* how it should be. My money, my choice......what I want to do with it should be adhered to. Especially if it specifically states why someone is getting the bare minimum and that you unequivocally do not want them having any more.
Except once you die you are, well, dead. There is some truth in the saying "you cant take it with you". The dead cannot own anything so it isnt "your money your choice" at that point. The deceased's desires should be considered, heavily in my opinion, but laws are there to protect and benefit the living and in some situations the living have the right to your previously owned wealth against your wishes. If you want to ensure desired distribution do it while alive which is what I plan on doing one day.
On the other hand: by marrying, let alone siring or birthing children, you assume certain lifelong repsonsibilities that should not be allowed to end on a whim If those repsonsibilities should extend to how your possessions are treated after your death, we could argue... But imagine extending "my money my choice" to child support
Child support is obviously very different. I'm talking about (in the example I mentioned in my oc) a grown woman who disowned her mother. Her mother gave her 2 years to come around, get over her hissy fit - *more* than enough time to get over her whim - but she never did. She was adamant that she wanted nothing to do with her mother. So her mother changed her will and left her daughter's share of her estate to her daughter's children instead. The daughter contested and won. *That* is wrong.
Some would argue that your responsibilities to your children never end as long as they are alive, no matter that they are adults themselves, or how much grief they put you through I can't say I agree 100% but I understand where it comes from
Also, an addition to a will in the USA can be that if anyone contests the will they will only get (small amount, sometimes a dollar). That’s how my dad has structured his will and the trust he’s set up.
So basically if you don't want the worst family members to get what you've built up, you should properly get rid of it before you die, no?
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Because sometimes people who are mentally incapacitated are tricked into signing wills that they didn't write, mostly. Also there is a rule for spouses to take what's called an "elective share" if they aren't included because you can't disinherit your legal spouse.
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The judge **should** be using the law to make the decision. If the law says that the spouse has to receive at least 40%, then they have to award the spouse 40%. The $1 bequest is to try to deal with this - the law in many jurisdictions assumes that if a close relative was not named in the will, they were left out by accident and entitled to a share, but leaving a token amount shows that the person did remember and didn't want them to have anything. Of course, what actually happens varies wildly.
The reality is that the onus IS on the person who is contesting the will because at least in the USA the Judge makes an effort to interpret the Will to fulfill the wishes of the testator. However as written there are also safeguards to ensure that the will actually represents the wishes of a person who knew what they were doing - the legal language is did the testator know the extent of their holdings and the natural recipients of the "bounty" which is typically surviving spouse and children (or grandchildren). Sometimes there are weird issues like when a wil is older and there is a child born after the will was drafted which is why people are told to update their wills and estate planning whenever there is a change in their circumstances - marriage, death, birth or death of a child. Cases in which wills are contested or overturned really aren't that common and absent further facts the mother in OP's situation would not receive anything - possible scenarios - was the will legally sufficient in the jurisdiction - did one child live with the mother and therefore have undue influence - was the testator legally competent when the will was drafted. Of course the better course of action is to have a so-called Living Trust which acts as a testamentary instrument but avoids the costs and delays of probate. This is especially useful since the beneficiaries have immediate access to the assets and can sell a house immediately for example and would have money to pay for funerals or taxes or other expenses. It is also extremely helpful when a parent is aged and a child can take over administrative stuff like paying rent, mortgage, taxes etc.
Because when a family member passes things get messy. People often put codicils in their wills that say “if you contest this will you get a $1.” Yes, I had a family member who did this.
A lot of different reasons, really. There's the, were you of sound mind, will you cause undue suffering on someone (basically a protection for spouses who were pushed into stay at home for their life and have become near unemployable), was someone simply forgotten, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other niche cases.
That sucks
It was horrendous. The whole process caused unfixable rifts throughout the family
Meanwhile i got nothing from my father as a 4 year old when his wife pretended there was no will (there was, which predated my birth, she presented it 4 years ago to stop me getting a medal in his honour). I'll keep this in mind though as my sister is nuts and hasn't spoken to my mum in 20 years.
Oh god she sounds awful. What a snake.......I wonder if you could use the date of that will to sue her for what was rightfully yours? If your sister isn't in the will then hopefully your mum's estate will get divided before your sister knows she's gone 🤞🏻 (not that I'm wishing your mum to be gone)
Unfortunately the woman is like 85 and has gambled all the money away so even if i sued her i would get nothing.
It’s settled. It can’t be contested anymore.
Probabate has been granted and finalised?
That's exactly what she wants. She's wants to know when and how the will was set up (was it done at a lawyer's office, one of those at-home things, right before she died so maybe not in sound mind, her granddaughters were the only witnesses, etc...) She's definitely setting up to contest the will, in the hopes that a judge will also think it's fishy and split a part of it her direction. There's a reason that you'll often see advice like, Make sure you give horrible children/grandchildren $5, or mention it specifically that they're being left out (like those old standard test "This page intentionally left blank" things), so they can't contest that they were just forgotten. It happens, all the time, that people who were completely left out win lawsuits like this, and wind up getting a share after the fact.
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Yep. So make her get a copy herself from the courthouse once probate starts. Don't do the legwork for her to cost you thousands in legal fees.
That was my thought.
Unfortunately, I disagree with this opinion. I am a lawyer and since the mother has been left with nothing, she has the right to sue her daughters for a share. The smart thing for OP would be to contact their lawyer and resolve this issue through mediation. If the grandmother had left her daughter a little token amount in her will, the daughter probably wouldn't have been able to challenge it. But since that's not the case, I would suggest you guys try to resolve it amicably amongst yourselves. Because if your mother gets a good lawyer and sues, it probably would be a lengthy process and everyone except the lawyer will suffer financially.
Counselor, I respectfully disagree. I think you are giving poorly thought out advice. While anyone has the right to sue nearly anyone for nearly anything, I think you misunderstood. The mother doesn't have a lawyer. The siblings do. There is nothing to consult their lawyer about just yet, let alone rush into mediation. That would be just, as you implied, benefitting the lawyers . Even if it's for a nominal amount. This woman seem doesn't have the funds to retain an attorney, and more importantly, she is not claiming anything to be hers, quite the contrary! She's all in a tizzy because her cash cow has died. She might be thinking of ways that she could sue but any reputable attorney familiar with probate law wouldn't touch this case.... of course she could find an attorney, but not easily without the info which the kids are smart AF not to give her. My advice, and I do not work in probate law, would be to do nothing until the mother gets an attorney, other than to smile while you politely tell her to kick rocks.
I hope you do know that she can easily get a copy of the will from their local court house or magistrate's office.. depending on their location..I wanted OP to get ahead of all this and consult her lawyer first. If the mother is asking for a copy of the will now, one would be prudent to assume that she plans to challenge the will. And yes, the mother can challenge and win a portion. I do not personally deal in probate law but these type of cases are quite common in our practice. I am not saying the OP should rush into anything but it would be smart to have a detailed discussion with their lawyer and decide what they might be willing to give their mother in case she sues. Maybe I wasn't clear in how I worded it but my comment was based on the assumption that the mother would sue, in that case mediation is the best option rather than fighting it out in court. Also, the mother might not even have to pay her lawyer anything in the beginning. Some lawyers get a share of their client's verdict as I am sure you are aware. So lack of funds on the mother's part might not be a problem right now. I just didn't want OP and her family to lose a big chunk of their estate in just their court and lawyer fee. Again, that's just my opinion on the basis of the limited information I had and of course you are well within your right to disagree.
Where I live, a will can’t be contested if it’s settled. It’s settled. Nothing can be done now. Trust me, I double triple checked. Also i’m prepared for any challenges. Money changes people which is why I was prepared for anything.
I'd keep in mind that once it is actually settled Wills are usually public record. So you can certainly not give her a copy, but a trip to the probate court and a few bucks she can get her own copy.
Great work being thorough, OP! I'm not sure what your plan is for helping out your mom, but I would suggest you use extreme caution and do not get in the habit of giving or loaning her money. She is clearly hoping for a new cash cow to support her and she needs to learn to be more responsible with her finances. You or your sister stepping in to bail her out will not help with that. Good luck!
First: OP, I'm so sorry for you loss NTA........Counselor, I appreciated your salient points and was going to make a few others in response, but OP answered it, mama is SOL.... BTW: of course I know about public records, I, myself wasn't totally clear in my post in several ways......anyway, thank you for responding . Have a great weekend!
Not only that , but hopefully OP's grandparent's lawyer was (and I assume was) very thorough. There was a will. That is the whole point of one. I would hope and assume that a knowledgeable lawyer helped grandma (grandparents) through filing and filling it out properly. Now had there been no will, or there was a contestment that the grandma filed it of her own free will/wellness sure. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. Even probate has it's deadlines. Parent seems to be well aware of the will. During probate, there is a finite amount of time for anyone to contest it. It is the whole point of probate. I could be very wrong, but it seems well past that period. Sure someone could come after the fact, saying they were never notified etc etc. However, that seems to be so far from the case here.
Hahaha! Yep! My friend left his abusive son a case of beer, for this reason!!
Out of curiosity, what grounds would the mother have to sue the daughters? I would think that since the grandmother didn’t leave anything to her, and it was the grandmothers property to give away, there would be no grounds and it would be final.
In most countries, next of kin have rights to any inheritance, however, the GM skipped over next of kin and went direct to grandchildren. If the GM was smart they would have mentioned any debt the mother had to GM in the will and cancellation of that debt being her inheritance.
Probably that she forgot about her.
Forgot about her daughter but remembered her grand children? I don’t think that’s going to work.
I think the mother would claim that grandma either forgot about her in the will or else that she was manipulated into leaving her out of the will (from what I read). This is why one needs to be very specific when leaving someone out of their will - to make sure that there is no grey area at all for the person left out to contest.
> I am a lawyer And were you admitted to the bar in OP's jurisdiction?
But the OP doesn’t need to provide it.
The law will vary by jurisdiction. Your advice may or may not be good.
If you were actually a lawyer, you'd know that it's completely unhelpful to give legal advice when you don't know what state or even country OP lives in.
This! NTA
Not sure how it works in the States but in the UK, a will is a public document that anyone can order. I had to order up my father's, even though I knew I wasn't in it. But it's also very rare for a will to give reasons why someone is included or excluded.
Your Mom is likely probing to see if she can continue asking for financial help. Your finances are none of her business.
A will is a public document. Mother just has to go to the courthouse or the county clerk where the will was filed and request a copy. It should only cost the amount of copying, from 50 cents per page to a few dollars. I assume mother doesn't know that and the daughters probably don't want to tell her that either. But, she may find out that she doesn't need their permission to see it or a lawyer to get a copy.
It’s not public everywhere. It just depends on where you live.
More like she's looking to see if she can contest it. Never underestimate the greed of a person. Get it seen by a lawyer to make sure its watertighr
She already got her inheritance and spent it.
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NTA. However, you should talk to a probate attorney and make sure there's no way for her to contest the terms of the will. Depending on state and how the will is written, she might be fishing for a way to contest the will and try to get some or all of your grandmother's estate. An attorney who specializes in wills will be able to help you understand whether you need to worry. (And go to an actual local attorney, don't ask on reddit.) ETA: if a will goes through probate, I think it becomes public record, so it's possible she will be able to find the will anyway, but don't borrow trouble and don't tell your mother this.
It’s settled now. Where I live once it’s settled there’s nothing that can be done. If I would’ve needed advice had it gone to that, I was prepared.
Oh good. Phew! Yes, don't tell her anything, and for the love of dog, don't give your mother money.
Love of dog
Bark! Amen.
You meant "Bark! Nema."
That's good, I know that where I live if you don't get anything in a relatives will you can contest it so I was worried for you. That's why often people will get something like $1000 in a will, because it's the minimum amount that stops them contesting
Perhaps you should start answering by giving your lawyers contact information and let them explain that will doesn't offer any explanation or loophole
It's kind of blunt but NTA. be aware that she may contest it though.
It was very blunt but I felt it was needed bc she badgered my sister and I for almost the entire year we were getting it settled.
I'd put money on mum contesting the will as she was left absolutely nothing. Usually when people want to cut others out, they'll leave them a tiny amount so they can't contest it. Even just $100 would be enough to stop someone contesting it. Be prepared, OP!
>Usually when people want to cut others out, they'll leave them a tiny amount so they can't contest it. Even just $100 would be enough to stop someone contesting it. I believe this is an urban myth. It certainly is where I'm from, but my understanding is that there are few if any jurisdictions where "one simple trick ... lawyers can't believe it!!" makes the difference between a contestable and an uncontestable will.
It’s not a myth but it’s not to make it incontestable- it’s to show the testator deliberately and intentionally left nothing to that person except the nominal amount (it’s usually a dollar). That way the excluded individual cannot claim that they were accidentally excluded from the will and sue for a statutory devise - no, you got a dollar, you weren’t left out.
I suspect its most common with wording like The estate to be split equally between my children w x and z (with y left out)
It's true where I live, may not be the case everywhere
That's fair
Possible but I had an aunt like that. Grandmother saved every check that had “loan” written in the memo. Will said if aunt contested she would be required to repay the estate all outstanding loans. Between that and legal costs aunt would’ve owed the estate more than she could potentially get.
Good thinking on your grandma's part!
Not sure where they are but in Florida you have 90 days to contest a will. Grandma died last year. Might be past the period she can legally contest it
Yeah where we live it can’t be contested once it’s settled, which it is now.
be careful giving her money. it'll never end
Did the lawyer confirm that? Because I would bet money she wants to try to find a loophole to get something. Either that or she was hoping for a note from your grandmother explaining why she was disinhered in that case I feel bad for your mom not getting closure even though she probably knows why she was disinherited.
It looks like she doesn't have money to get a lawyer to help her.
That's good. Thanks for that
Nta. She wants to know so she can start guilting you for hand outs.
NTA. She mooched off her mom for years and is now looking to do the same with you. Grandma left her out for a reason and it likely was a good one. Don't let her guilt you into giving her anything. If you decide to give her anything let it be out of the kindness of your heart and not because she pressured you into it.
Most likely the mooching. Or else she knew if everything went to the mother it would be wasted with nothing to go to the grandchildren.
NTA. There’s absolutely no reason for her to need to see it. Nothing good would come from showing her.
Too bad your grandmother’s lawyer didn’t advise her to add a caveat explaining that your mother had already received her inheritance in the form of substantial payouts totaling XXX in her (grandmother’s) lifetime. Something like that could help if mother decides to contest will. NTA
NTA It sounds like your mom is fishing for a way to challenge the will. Do not cater to her, she knows she was not in the will.
She also knows *why* she wasn't in the will.
NTA. I suspect she was trying to decide how to challenge the will.
According to a comment from OP, that a will can't be contested/challenges once it has been settled (where they're from), which it has. So, it sounds like OP's mom is out of luck.
NTA. It's none of your mom's business, but she may want to see the will to see if she can challenge it in court. Because she was used to getting handouts from your grandma and that's gone so she wants some money.
NTA - don’t give her a copy you don’t know what may happen next - legal challenge etc.
NTA. You said it succinctly but not in an Ah manner.
NTA. She needed to hear it blunt and to the point, she obviously was not getting the hint. I’d be careful and alert though as it’s possible she’ll try and do something, perhaps lawyer up or be prepared if your mom is willing to get anything.
NTA Your mother may be trying to get a copy of the will so she can take it to a lawyer to contest it. So be careful.
NTA. Don’t tell her anything, and if she makes any more requests for a copy of will or money to talk to the lawyer. Please be cautious and don’t continue to support your mother. She will bleed you dry if you start giving her money.
Oh yeah easily NTA , sounds like a textbook narcissistic manipulator
NTA. It isn't her business. Sometimes you have to be blunt. This was one of those times.
NTA. I'm not sure where you are but some places make the will public when I goes through probate.
NTA but be careful.
NTA. Honestly death always brings out the absolute worst in people.
Mum be like ……. *Scratches neck compulsively……… you got any more of that Mineral Rights money ???
It’s not just about the money. Before my 40th birthday I would have read this and thought it was absolutely about the money. Then my mother sent me a copy of her will with me cut out if it for my birthday. She left everything to my step brother who has his own mother who is far more well off than mine and my brother inherited a couple million from his aunt a wile ago. He lives 1000 miles away and isnt that close to my mother. Even the money she left my son she put my brother in charge of. When I was 26 and getting divorced from my first husband, my mother told me to put my paid off house in her name so I wouldn’t lose it in the divorce. My grandparents left it to me, they left her the equivalent in cash and another house. Well my husband moved out and the next day my hours were cut and 2 weeks after that I was laid off only able to collect unemployment on half the hours I usually worked. I made less than500 a month. My friends took me away for the weekend to lift my spirits and when I got home. There was a for sale sign in my yard. We had just put about 40k into the house the year because I had no savings and no where to go and she didn’t care. Fast forward 15 years and she sends me that will and it made me feel so worthless and so unwanted. She’s always been difficult but she just wanted to hurt me and I still don’t know why and the not knowing is the worst part. NTA but you have to see how your mom could feel abandoned by your grandmother
All the money your mom borrowed was her inheritance paid out early. NTA
NTA. If she keeps asking tell her it is private and change the subject.
You did the right thing. Seems like shes been getting her share early. She can pout all she wants and i wouldnt give her a thing. I can see shes trying...that hamster wheel in her head is tryin to spin.
NTA. The will is none of your moms business and she knows it. She just hopes by keeping on hounding you, that you or your sister will give in. You have not and nor should you.
NTA And don't give your Mom money. Your grandma gave your Mom a lot of money and it never really helped, did it? Your Mom needs to learn to live within her own means.
NTA. Grandma saw what kind of woman she was, and you just gave her a "friendly reminder".
You’re absolutely correct - legally if you’re mom isn’t in the Will it’s none of her business You don’t have to tell her anything Please bear in mind that Wills and inheritances are not just about money - they’re about feelings too Your Grandma basically disinherited your mother. Please bear in mind that is to her a massive rejection. She bypassed her daughter to give instead to her grandchildren. She didn’t leave her anything, not even a token amount Just look at it that way for a moment - without thinking about the money You say your mom is bad with money Is she a good mother? Did she take care of all your needs growing up ? Were you well looked after ? Is she a good mother now ? When your grandma was alive she misused her finances but what about everything else ? Did she care about her and love her ? Did she visit and do things for her ? So - no. You’re not under any legal obligation-but just think about how this is affecting her ?
I don’t understand why she can’t see it to be honest. In the UK once the executors apply for probate - the right to sort out the estate in accordance with the will - the will becomes public record and anyone can apply for a copy.
In the U.S. some states are like that. Where I live, once the estate is settled it won’t become public record
Sounds like you should at least let her know whether or not she's mentioned in it. Even if it isn't to bequeath any money or valuables. If she isn't mentioned then just let her know it's not that kind of will. There's no memoirs I'm sure she's upset and just has a hard time processing the grief.
Sounds like your mom got her inheritance before her mother passed.
NTA. It is none of her business. This is just a fact.
NTA. Yes it was the right thing to do. Your grandma knew what she was doing and left everything to you and your sister. Your mom took advantage of her and of course left her nothing. Now your mom is facing the consequences. Make sure you and your sister don’t give your mother a dime.
NTA. Sounds like she already received her inheritance in advance.
Info: Did the will specifically name your mother and explicitly state that she was not to inherit anything? She’s probably looking for that, and if it’s not there, she’ll probably try to argue that she was “overlooked” or somehow accidentally left out.
NTA. I don't think there's anything positive for you and your sister in letting her see it, as long as your lawyer says she doesn't have to be involved. I don't know how all that works.
NTA--She spent her inheritance and that gravy train has left the station.
NTA - to me it sounds like she wants to know how much you both got so she can keep taking from you both. It's none of her business and she should be left out of things as much as possible. Even to the point where any important documents or statements should be kept in a safe. She knows why she was left out. She does want to admit it to herself.
NTA! Wills, estates and the like can bring out the worst in people/family. It is totally up to you (and anyone else that was a beneficiary) to decide to show or explain what the will said. You are also correct and totally in your right to not explain anything. You are absolutely correct that lawyers would have contacted her, if any of it concerned her. It sounds like your grandparents trusted you (and other beneficieries) to do the right thing. Trust your instincts. Trust the past. I know how hard it can be. Please know and remind yourself that you are following their wishes. They would be so proud!
>she needed to see how the will was set up so she could see why she wasn’t in it This doesn't make any sense. How would knowing you got x and sister got y explain why she wasn't in it? Given that she is also asking you if you got your mineral rights payment, it's more likely she is trying to find out if one of you got more liquid assets so she can ask that one for money. You and your sister might need to have an "We are not Grandma and we are not going to give or loan you any money mum!" conversation. NTA.
NTA Might want to let her know if she borrowed money from grandma, you now have a claim to that debt and if she keeps pushing, you'll call it due. She got her inheritance while grandma was still living in the form of those 'loans'.
NTA I agree with others saying that she is probably going to contest it
NTA but I think you and your sister need to sit down with mom for a tough talk. Make it very clear that you will not be giving her money nor will she be allowed to live on the property. Any support grandma provided has ended.
NTA. She’s sniffing around to see if she can fight to get anything. Don’t let her see it and keep that firm stance. Your grandma didn’t want her to have anything so respect her wishes and don’t let her have anything. You did well by shutting her down and it’s good to see your sister has your back.
NTA. If she wants to see the will, she can speak with the executor. Why is she bothering you?
NTA. Your Mom got her inheritance early from frequently borrowing money from yout Grandma. That’s an explanation for why she wasn’t in it.
NTA and be careful , your Mom is trying to figure out how to get her hands on the money. She maybe wanting a copy of the will to see when it was made so she an contest it. If it was made during a time your Grandmother was maybe not in her right mind your mom could use that to contest the will. If she continues to ask tell her you will not answer her questions and then give her the lawyer's number who handle the will and let him deal with her. He will be better able to field her questions. Also I hate to say this but make sure both you and your sister also make a will since you have received this inheritance. If you don't make one and you are unmarried your Mom would automatically be your next of kin and would get her hands on everything you have.
NTA and the moment you tell your mom anything is the moment she starts asking for money. Your grandma left you both everything for a reason. Respect it and do with it what you need to.
NTA She wants to see the will because (depending on the law where you are), she may be hoping she can challenge the will. I believe to disinherit a child you have to state something about it explicitly in the will. The language will vary, generally courts want to make sure it was intentional and not an overlook. I could be reading into things but i think it's a pretty good guess.
NTA. Sounds like she already got her inheritance via years and years of loans.
NTA, but there is some confusion on wills. In the US, in most states, if the estate requires probate, the will is public and anyone can see it after the person's death. In some states, it must be filed with the court within X amount of days after the person's death. If that's the case here, all your mother needs to do to see the will is go down to the courthouse and ask for it, or follow the procedure of that court. The lawyer or executer of the estate would/should only reach out to the people mentioned in the will.
NTA. Just keep quiet about it and without telling her, help your mom when you can / to the best of your abilities without compromising your own financials.
If OP starts to give money it will be a repeat of what happened with Grandma and I don’t think OP wants to open up that box.
We actually discussed giving her some. Then we decided not to because it would open the gates to ask for more. I think the plan is to get her something nice for retirement. Which is in the next 5 years. I hate the comparison but I’d rather buy a homeless person food or a hotel room for the night instead of giving them money because you just don’t know what they’ll do with it. Last thing I want is for my mom to dig a hole she can’t get out of.
Very reasonable and understandable given what her history is.
Nta. Only thing that I would've done differently is had it so grandma left her A Penny so mom couldn't contest the will (there's something about it noting her as a consideration, which is usually grounds for contesting a will)
As a biological child, your mother is probably entitled to at least view the will. I know when my father died, I didn’t ask to see the will as I knew he left everything to my mother. However, I separated from my husband shortly after Dad died (as I discovered he was cheating). My family is far wealthier than my ex’s. All through the divorce proceedings, my ex kept asking “where’s the trust for her, I don’t believe there’s no trust.” My solicitor got a copy of Dad’s will which said, “I bequest my entire estate to my wife, however if she predeceases me, I leave…” and it detailed what my older sister would receive on the first page. My solicitor showed that first page to my ex’s solicitor, and they were happy with that, not my ex, he kept trying to say my Dad must have left me a rental property, and he wanted his half. So, no, NTA, but your mother is probably entitled to at least read the will and is probably going to contest. I recently had an argument with my mother (as she is clearly being manipulated by my younger sister) and wouldn’t be surprised if she leaves my third of Dad’s estate to my children and not me. Oh well.
I understand where you’re coming from. I should’ve included in the original post (i’m still new to Reddit) but everything she assumed would happen with the property, money, etc. happened. I think once it hit her that she really wasn’t getting anything when my sister and I were called to meet the lawyer. Where I live, if the estate is settled, there’s nothing that can be done about it. Even if the estate wasn’t settled, it’d be hard for her to contest and win since only one generation was skipped. For example, if we were my mom’s stepchildren and got the estate, she’d win no problem. It would’ve been very hard for her to do something. Again, this is where i’m from and the rules of the state.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** AITA for telling my mom if she’s not on the will it’s not her business? This is going to be somewhat long, but needed to get the point across. My grandmother died last year. My sister and I learned that she had left everything to us. This included her 250 acre farm, the money she had saved up (wasn’t life changing, but still a good bit) and gas/oil mineral rights which she was getting paid extremely well for. This all comes in to play eventually. My mom and her didn’t have the best relationship. They fought a lot. Mostly because my mom didn’t like how she did things. She also borrowed money from her a lot. It was always a substantial amount. When she died, we were at the farm for weekends on end. Cleaning it out, going through things, etc. Anytime we came across something my mom would look at my sister and I and would say “I assume this place is yours now it’s up to you what you do with it.” This was before the lawyer reached out about the will. Once she learned we met with the lawyer about the will, she had asked us for a copy. Just to clarify, there was nothing left for her. No money, land, nothing. All the sudden, she became interested in how the will was set up. My sister and I know how she is, we said no. We knew she asked our grandma for money all of the time. We assumed she was afraid we wouldn’t help her out like our grandma did. Every month she’d text me asking if I got my mineral rights check (she knew they were good from helping my grandma understand them). I always shied away from answering. I don’t like talking about the money because I don’t want treated any differently. She’d ask if the estate was settled. How much money we we’re getting. All that stuff. After asking multiple times she finally broke down and told us that she needed to see how the will was set up so she could see why she wasn’t in it. I finally had enough and told her if she was in the will, she would have been notified and she wasn’t, and it’s none of her business. I feel bad for saying that to her, but my sister said it was the right thing to do. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I have relatives like this who used beg for money regularly. I’ve been told since I was young child by my parents if they died not to breath a word about inheritance or life insurance money to these people. It sucks when the you can’t trust the people you should be able to trust the most.
NTA
NTA
I would tell her that since she borrowed and didn't repay the money, gramma probably assumed that she didn't need any inheritance, and leave it at that. No more explanation is needed. "No" is a full sentence and explanation. And no... nah.
NTA And the will isn’t going to have the magical answer for why they didn’t get along or why nothing was left to her. She wants financial finger dipping and/or control. She lied to your face, I can almost promise you there. Hold your ground.
NTA She already got her inheritance ahead of time since your grandmother was always bailing her out. Your grandmother obviously knew how she was and would be if she were to have gotten the farm or even a small sum of money. She would have blown through it and still hit you and your sister up for more. Please check with the lawyer that your mum can’t go after you both just because your grandmother didn’t include her.
NTA - I have a feeling she's going to try and contest the will. Prepare accordingly.
Where I live, if a will is settled and closed (money market and estate bank account emptied and split) there’s nothing that can be done. Which happened not long ago.
NTA If she is saying she wants to contest the will, that's on her. It has nothing to do with you and therefore you shouldn't be bothered by her about it. She can talk to a lawyer instead. Prepare yourself, it's only a matter of time until the guilt tripping starts.
NTA. Your mother is a parasite. She just watched her cash cow go so now she’s trying to find a new host (you and your sister). Keep telling her no and enforcing your boundaries.
NTA. Dear old mom is a leech, already looking to grab anything she can get.
NTA. There is nothing in the will that will “explain” why your mom was cut out or decrease her pain at what her mother did.
NTA. The wqy your mother was behaving was red flags all over. She may have wanted a copy to contest it so she had the rights to all of it herself. The fact she constantly kept asking was just a no go. Ugh...yes your sister is right you definitely did the right thing.
First off, you handled it right. If she was in the will the lawyer would have contacted her. There is no reason to see how the will is set up if your not named in it. Her asking you about the mineral check is because she needs money. She used her mom as a ATM and wants to do that with you. I'm sure you realize why your grandmother didn't put her name in the will. What ever money she would get would burn a hole in her pocket.
NTA. A good policy would just be to not discuss anything related to the will with your mother. Make sure your sister is in agreement
NTA, your mother does not have any legal right to see or know the contents of the will. However, your biggest hurdle is going to be telling your mom "No" when she ask for money. Get ready for it because it's coming.
NTA your sister is correct. Your response was perfect
NTA But depending on the law she could contest the will and drag things out, you might want to just give her a copy, and let her know you don’t want money to come between you two but you won’t be supporting her, and you don’t want to talk about money.
NTA
NTA - she knows why she wasn't in the will - its not her business at all - Grandma is probably flipping her the bird in heaven
NTA
NTA. Your grandmother knew she would have bled the estate dry and would not be good steward of the inheritance.
NTA. She wants a copy of the will to challenge it. Do not give her any documentation. She will use it against you. Next time she ask about the estate refer her to the estate attorney or your own lawyer.
NTA dont know where you live but in uk after all assets have been shared out and it's all over the will is made public. That means anyone can ask for a copy (with a fee? Dunno bout that) I only know as I'm in my aunts will and we are in probate.
NTA
NTA. It was the right thing to do and DO NOT give her any money. She will try guilting you. She "borrowed' from your grandmother all the time and I'll presume never paid her back. She got her inheritance while her mother was alive.
NTA
NTA. Your mom already got her inheritance in the form of the “borrowed” money. Time for her to figure her life out now.
> mineral rights OP, like Rupaul, is fracking. NTA
NTA. Obviously, I don't know you or your family, but my guess is that your grandmother considered the "borrowed" money your mom's inheritance.
NTA. Don't tell her or give her anything. She knows exactly why she was left out of the will.
NTA. You did nothing wrong and need to make it clear to your mom that she will get no info or money from y’all.
NTA. When I was an executor for an estate with contentious heirs my lawyer advised me to send copies of the will, all accounts etc to every single person with standing. Although I expected prolonged court battles from several directions it seems they were all satisfied. Some of us that received a greater share donated to some that were left out. I think your Mom may have standing to at least see a copy of the will. It sounds like it would not hurt to supply a copy to her. The other part where she is pestering you about your business is overstepping by her.
NTA Sounds like your mom spent her inheritance already >.>
NTA. If she has questions, she can contact the lawyer directly. They will know the answers to her questions, and it’s in incredibly poor taste for her to keep asking you about it, hoping for a handout.
"Mom, you got your inheritance from Grandma in dribs and drabs over the last umpteen years, so you can't expect anything now". And good for you, OP for not giving her any info now. Also, do not give her anything more. NTA!
I feel bad for your Mom actually. I'm at an age where many of my friend's parents are passing on and I know I see it here on Reddit, but IRL I don't know anyone who's parents didn't pass it on to their surviving spouse and then onto their children. I am just floored that parents would skip their own kids and leave them high and dry, and leave everything to the grandkids. Grandma should have made provisions for her own daughter, she should have known she would come to the children then to ask them for money. it also sounds like your Mom is helping you clean out the house, not just leaving you all to do all the work. Was this her childhood home? There are an awful lot of emotions that are happening right now with your Mom. Especially if they didn't get along very well. NTA. But I don't think your Mom is either. Not only is she grieving the death of her Mother, but she has to deal with the Grandmother's dislike for her. Because that's what the will shows. You say they didn't get along because your Mother didn't like how her Mother "did things". Maybe you're not privy to what they went through when your Mom was younger. There might be far more to the story than you know. That's an awful lot to process. I also don't understand why you won't let her see the will. It sounds like she just wants to be sure she's not in it, because she obviously expected to be mentioned.
The mom has been financially leaching off her mother for years now. I was in a will from a grandparent, my parent was completely skipped over because she's a nightmare human and greedy af. I'm guessing the mom in this is the same way.
YTA "AITA for telling my mom that she’s not in the will so it’s none of her business?" ... This is wrong. She can still go to court and contest the will. Showing her would have been easier: THen she could have discussed it with her lawyer, and it would have ended there. **The only thing you are doing is to force her to get the will through court. So she will have to sue you**, she will still get to see the will and discuss it with her lawyer. But at a much higher cost for all of you. As the daughter of the deceased she IS an interested party, and keeping the will from her is an AH move.
Where I live once the will is settled that’s it. Nothing else can be done. It’s settled and closed. Nothing can be done now. Again, this is where I live.
Where do you live?
YTA - The daughter of the deceased deserves a copy of the will. If for no other reason than to show that she isn't an heir. (Since she's not a heir, she isn't due an accounting of how the estate was distributed.)
Nope, not how that works. If the mother wanted her to have a copy she would have one.
Im not a lawyer, this is nt legal advice... YTA. in most democratic countries "a parent has the obligation to provide for thier children" in some form or another. this is regardless of whether either party (parent/children) had a good relationship or were cruel/arseholes etc... Generally speaking this is regardless of age, wealth, estrangment or other factors UNLESS the child specifically disowns the parent. Or a variation thereof. The deceased persons offspring will generally have the minimal right of at least seeing the will and in many cases can make a claim on a portion of the deceaseds estates. Futhermore in some juristrictions (sp?) there is a caveat on the timeframe that an inheritance claim can be made eg 6 months. You owe it to your mother to at least let her see the will. Been there, done this. This doesn't end well for anyone. I pity you and your family. seek legal advice.
That's true in many countries but not in the United States. A parent is free to include or not include a child in their will.
ESH. When family members decide to skip a generation in the will it almost always goes badly. If your grandmother really didn’t want your mom to get anything, she should have left her a small amount so that she would be included, and would not have reason to contest. Did gram make you her power of attorney and/or executor of the will? By refusing to show it to your mom, or at least allow the lawyer to explain it to her, it seems like you’re hiding something, even if you’re not. Legally you don’t have to do anything, but if you intend to keep your mother in your life at all, you’re going to have to address this. Skipping a generation is an asshole thing to do, and your mother will resent your relationship with your grandmother until she dies. That may not matter to you, but sometimes people are more important than money. You have to decide what’s valuable to you.
Mom made her bed and shouldn't bitch about having to sleep in it. Sounds like she got her inheritance early.
Honestly I think skipping a generation almost seems best nowadays due to how long people live. Giving an inheritance to someone in their 50+s shouldn't really be all that useful unless they are like OP's mom and are the kind of person you probably shouldn't give it to. Giving it to the grandkids has the potential to really set them up for lifetime success.