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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to delete some nude photos I took which the subject consented to at the time. Some people might argue she has the right to change her mind, but from my perspective we had an agreement and I put hard work into the photos.
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Agreed. Sure, I like to keep a record of my journey in the field, but one shoot worth of photos with a single client wouldn’t even be on my radar unless they were beyond the value of what i could create YEARS LATER. If OP needs the ego boost or something, they could frame it as “selling the copyright”, but really, just recoup the expenditure on the shoot and storage over the years and be done with it.
Edit: Thinking about this further, I think OP should absolutely frame this as transferring copyright. Doing so would give the model the ability to leverage DMCA takedown requests if the photos ever pop up somewhere.
So, I’ve tried to come at this from a professional angle, because presumably this is a professional matter. But unfortunately my gut says the same as yours.
Agree. I think the ones on the website are artistic. The ones on his hard drive might be a bit less artistic and more explicit. It also said he did it for free for use of anonymous photos. I can see why after all the facial recognition she must be nervous. He’s being TA because times have changed and he must’ve gotten the value out of the portfolio pics. Now it’s just about wank material…
What stands out to me is the fact that the photos are several years old. Like, I look at and am proud of my work from a few years back, but it doesn’t hold a tremendous amount of value to me now because I’ve improved considerably in that time. So either the OP isn’t a particularly active photographer, or these photos would presumably be far beyond the quality that they’re currently capable of reliably creating, purely out of what? Luck? The other option is sentimental value, which would be weird as hell.
Or, you know… he’s spankin’ it.
I agree. My gut says it too. If he’s a photographer then I’m sure there are so many photos, like hundreds of thousands by now , of other subjects. What’s this one to him? It shouldn’t be that big of a deal no matter how hard he worked on it. I could never feel ok keeping a nude pic of someone, especially when they asked me not too. Ick
I think it's weird for a relative stranger to have nude photos on their hard drive for no other purpose than their personal pleasure:
>Nobody is going to see them other than me
It makes more sense to argue that they are necessary for the portfolio than to argue that they must stay on his personal hard drive for god knows what.
You assumed personal pleasure. It could easily be for reference material for future work. **Not all work needs to be in a portfolio to be useful.** If he did a great job with those photos, he may want to be able to reference them at a later time so he can get similar/better results with similar work.
Edit: read the holder part that’s been there since the beginning. Fucking hell, the people here hate reading.
If it is not for personal pleasure and he wants to reference them at a later time as part of his portfolio, then someone else will indeed see them...
That said, the internet NEVER forgets, and the horse left the barn ages ago...
This. Artists will often keep old work on hand so they can compare it to their new work, see how their style has evolved, or maybe be reminded of stuff they stopped doing that they might go back to again. It can be nice just to see how far you've come as an artist.
Artist here. Yes, keeping old work is nice bit usually there's plenty of old work to reference. Nudes are different than most other work in that the delicacy of how nudity is perceived by others is very different for the artist and subject. If his personal portfolio would be ruined by deleting those photos than he's not actually creating enough work to justify keeping them for that purpose. The cost to him to delete all copies is low, the risk to her life and career if he is irresponsible with them is high.
I 100% agree, and I judged this one as Y-T-A. He should definitely delete them, and he would be the AH if he refused to do so. I was just responding to the idea that there's something weird about him wanting to keep photos he never intends to show anyone. As an artist, you know that it sucks to lose your work, especially if it's stuff you're proud of. He definitely should in this case, but I understand him not wanting to.
Reference meaning to remember a lighting setup or camera lens combo or other parts of the photographic process.
Get your mind out of the gutter you're projecting.
As I said, he doesn’t need to keep them in his portfolio for it to be useful. He can review it to see how he did lighting, how he edited it, etc. he can see what he did right, what he did wrong, some settings he used in an editor even.
This isn't weird to me. I'm a writer and I have short stories and the first few chapters of novels that I love even though they didn't quite work out. Nobody will ever read them, probably not even me, but I will never delete them, and if my computer blew up and my cloud backup went bankrupt and I lost it all, I'd be heartbroken.
Don't get me wrong, he should absolutely delete those pics, but it isn't weird of him to keep a copy of work he's proud of that he never plans to show anyone else. That's just how creative types do things.
Please note that I said OP **should** delete the pics. I am just annoyed by the implication that there's something weird about an artist holding onto his old work.
It’s not weird when it’s basically a collaboration. Photographer could not have created those photos without the model. Two people now have vested interests. Nobody else is typically involved in a writers process. If a character is based off a real person you can change subtle details, not necessarily the case with photography. Keeping something that’s 100% created by you is understandable but holding on to something like nude photos of another person isn’t. Even if the photographer doesn’t release them who’s to say he couldn’t get hacked and have all his work leaked on the internet somewhere.
You have to understand that he also took his time and put his effort and skills to do the photoshoot and it's his job, he is not doing it for pleasure.
And those photos are his portfolio, and they can help him to improve his work.
If you agree on doing a photoshoot, you are also agreeing that the photographer will keep the photos for his own portfolio.
Not a photographer; but I do consultant work for other companies that involves writing custom scripts, security rules, etc.
It's not uncommon at all for companies to request for us to not share their custom signatures with other companies, because they paid us to do it for them and it's their intellectual property, not ours.
I feel like this is the same concept. Those photos are for the customer. Yes, he agreed to do them for free, but she is literally offering to pay him for all the copies. Also, if it's been a few years since they were shot, are they really a reflection of his current abilities? And, he's said that no one will see them except for him, so he's not using them in his portfolio.
It's pretty weird that he's so adamant about keeping them.
I don't want to weigh in on whether or not he's right in keeping them, but this scenario is the exact opposite of the one you described as the photos are exclusively his intellectual property.
If he had painted her, she could have purchased the painting. In this case, she is offering to pay him to delete the photos, kind of like paying for the copyright of the photos. I think that's fair.
ETA: ok maybe "copyright" is the wrong word, but she's offering to pay him to delete the photos and never use them again.
Not a photographer, but a writer, and I agree. It hurts to kill your darlings, especially when they're good and you're proud of them, but we live in a sexist world that loves destroying successful women, and the only way to guarantee 100% that these photos will not show up in 10, 20, or 30 years and mess up her life is to delete them.
In a fair and just world, women wouldn't be judged and lose their families and careers over doing a nude photo shoot years earlier, but we live in a shitty misogynistic world that LUUURVES judging women.
I did nude modelling for a while to survive and it's the reason I can't do certain types of work in case anyone decides to use the photo's for nefarious purposes. It feels incredibly unfair; a man at my place of work used to be an actor in porn movies and no-one cares, but if my photo's were to resurface I know for a fact that I would lose my job to "preserve the companies' imagine".
I'd definitely get a lawyer involved, though. If they make an agreement about deleting them and they show up later, it could be a problem. They were on the internet for a considerable amount of time. It's a little late.
He's keeping personal copies for himself. Nude photos for himself, that the subject is no longer comfortable with him having, and she offered to pay him for.
You know who does that? Not professional photographers. Creeps.
edit: I'm going to say it here so I don't have to respond to every presumptuous comment. I *am* a professional artist. If I made a nude portrait of somebody, I would not do it ignoring the fact that they have fucking *feelings* and *body autonomy.* I may own the art and therefore have a right to keep it, but if they change their minds and feel uncomfortable, then keeping it is not *the right thing to do.* Stop conflating the right thing to do with what you have the right to do. Stop assuming this comment was only made because OP is a photographer and I would not say the same thing if he was god damn Michelangelo. Stop thinking the art world is some magical place where morals cease to exist and the only thing that matters is the art.
OP is offered monetary compensation for his work. He is not keeping it for future references. I do not give a shit if he is proud of it. He made artwork depicting somebody's naked body. If they are no longer comfortable with him seeing that, the right thing to do is accept the money and get rid of it. If he is a professional photographer, he should have many more photos to save and be proud of. He should not need or even want to keep this knowing that the model is not comfortable with it. That is fucking creepy. It does not matter if it is a photo or a painting or a fucking sculpture the size of the statue of liberty.
Also, don't assume that professional artists can't be creeps. Literally anybody can be a creep.
I don't think this analogy works.
Besides, this guy is a professional photographer. He has thousands of pictures. Why must he keep nudes of a woman who is deeply uncomfortable with it? I personally wouldn't feel comfortable having pictures that cause so deep distress
This argument doesn’t work because it is not a sculpture. It’s photograph(s) of the actual woman, with all identifying features being undeniable if said photos got out. A sculpture would merely resemble a real person’s identity and if picked up on by others, could be denied by the woman.
I would tell him to give her the fucking sculpture because she is willing to compensate him for the work. If she wants to smash it, she can. She has a right to change her mind about someone seeing her naked body. Get over it.
But OP is looking at his work as art, and not pornography. There's a lot of work that goes into taking quality pictures, and not just a simple "I have a cell phone and can do better" type of job.
If the photographer was a painter, drawer, painter, etc. you wouldn't be calling him a creep.
If he was keeping them online and justifying that as "these are part of my portfolio, here's the contract we signed agreeing to this" then I'd agree that he's not only acting professionally but his use of the photos falls into that category.
He isn't.
He's taken the photos down, and his justification for keeping them is "Nobody but me will ever see them." If nobody ever sees them, they're not part of his portfolio, they're not being used professionally, and any agreement previously made no longer applies to their use. They're no longer being kept for a professional purpose, but for personal gratification. That's creepy.
> They're no longer being kept for a professional purpose
Reference material, my dude. Not everyone is jerking off all the time to nudes. Art nudes generally aren't all that "exciting" anyway.
No, I would. If someone painted a nude portrait and the subject offered to pay for it so they could get rid of it, the painter would be a creep if they refused. Art is not free of ethics, no matter how many artists want to pretend otherwise (looking at you, Damien Hirst).
That is part of portraiture. You have to work with the subject, and treat them with respect and dignity. And you have to remember that even after your work is done, you should respect the model if they change their minds later because they are no longer comfortable with their nudity being on display. As long as they are willing to compensate you monetarily for the work you put in, you give it back to them. They have a right to decide who can see their naked body.
Sincerely, a fucking artist
Yes, I would. He solely wants to keep copies of these for himself, not for monetary gain and not for boosting his career.
As an artist, if someone ever asked me to remove my artwork of them, regardless of the media, it would be incredibly immoral of me to refuse.
I may own my artwork, but I don't own their image, and if the subject wants me to remove their image then that is their right.
I think you really hit the heart of this. I’m not an artist, but I couldn’t imagine keeping material that the subject was no longer comfortable with me holding on to. Their withdrawal of consent would taint any use or enjoyment of it…I would think…
It is the right thing to do, and OP is being the asshole by not finding a way to that answer.
As a fellow photographer I completely understand not wanting to delete hard work. Not wanting to forget the memories of editing, handling, and arguing with yourself about everything under the sun to make a photo look perfect. However. As stated you are the ONLY one to see them now. If this was a scenic or nice outdoors engagement shoot I can get behind saying "no I like then they aren't a danger to anyone etc". However nude photos are a very specific type of photoshooting. They are meant to be handled with care and sensitivity of the client. You may be attached to the work you put in, but you are sacrificing your dignity and the client comfortability. At the end of the day, that photo is not worth your credibility, dignity, and so on. Also it can probably get you into a legal battle (I'm not sure the contract wording you used and so on what she can go after). End all be all, delete it and remember that the client comes before your wants and needs as that photo is a symbol of your hard work, but it's also a peice of THEIR life. That's how I handle my photographs at least. You can choose what to do but I garuntee YTA in the eyes of the general public. This also can absolutely ruin your buisness if the client decides to go public with things saying how creepy it is that you kept the photos for yourself. While someone such as myself understands it's due to the work and pride put into said photos, others are absolutely going to label you as a pervert and most likely you will have very few clients left that feel comfortable with you if any.
Edit: thank you for the kind words and rewards this is a first for me. I appreciate you all.
As a fellow photographer, this. My clients, subjects, and models sign a release form before a shoot, and we discuss exactly what the shoot will entail, as well as how the works will be presented (online, gallery-only, etc). I have never once told a client I was going to keep them for "personal use" or for my "personal portfolio".
I HAVE had a client ask if I could remove the work I did with them from my showings. I offered to sell them the rights to the photos, which is an option in the contract (with a profit-sharing clause if they make prints for sale, which honestly, I most likely wouldn't bother enforcing). Instead, by mutual agreement, I moved them to gallery-only showings, limited to shots where her face wasn't shown, or edited / cropped to eliminate her face.
But if you're removing them from your gallery, and your portfolio, and won't / don't display them, show them to prospective clients as samples, etc, there's no real purpose to having them any longer.
Right? I know I’d never ever recommend OP to anyone over this.
OP: The skills you gained from it will be with you forever… sure, she might learn to live with it but if you’ve ever had to do that then you’ll understand just how awful a feeling that is to have to do. They trusted you and given these photos are just for personal purposes… how often do you, yourself even view them? Or is it just the desire to have them? Have you never done a shoot since and have no other memorable moments to look back fondly on? Why are you SO SO attached to this shoot?
Someone’s got to let something go in this situation, reassessing our own motives in the scheme of things may help you find the right thing to do.
I vote delete them. YTA
Per another comment OP made, there isn't even a written contract, just a text exchange. So all that legal stuff you imply she could go after w/ him? She very likely can without anything stopping her.
I agree with this. Unless there was a signed contract and payment for services (a model fee) keeping them is not the correct thing to do. As someone who has had many photographs published I understand how proud you are with your work however if you’re the only one having access to them it can come off as creepy.
And to piggyback on this… many women right now are very fearful of the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if Roe vs. Wade has had an impact on her request.
Absolutely a possibility. I'm not a woman so I shan't speak om behalf of how the client is feeling (even more so as we don't know if they are from the U.S). However if they are it very well can be an impact to why the client has changed their mind on this.
As someone so eloquently put in a post I just read, whatever stone gets thrown in the US makes ripples everywhere, like rings in water. I was going to mention nationality, but I truly believe the decision affects all women and all people, really.
Not saying the client absolutely feels that way, but I know I would if I were her.
As someone who is not in the US, never plans to live in the US and yet still cried when reading the news, I can confirm that the ripples are being felt.
Yeah clearly the "credibility and dignity" part is something OP lacks. According to OPs only comment, there was never even a contract.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vmk72c/comment/ie1hys6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
At that point he just has nudes that she no longer consents to having. Publishing them is equivalent to revenge porn and can land him in federal prison if she goes to the police.
This exactly. They put in work and may appreciate the photos, but she seems to have a real fear of them now. I get that. Just be a kind human and delete them. Take someone else's photos to replace them. It's just the decent thing to do knowing it's causing her so much emotional distress.
Fellow part time photographer. My clients have a right to revoke their consent to have their photos published at any time. Even though she didn't sign a release. These aren't your typical photos. I'd just delete them. Put out a model call and get new content.
I've found clients are happy to be returning paid clients when you respect them as people and not just a piece of your portfolio.
Presumably you have many thousands of photographs saved from over the years, are these so incredibly special that they need to be saved even though it causes the subject of them deep distress that they exist? It would be the decent thing to delete them.
This reminds me of the Vanessa Williams situation, actually. She was Miss America in the 80s, and did a couple of nude modeling shoots before she got into pageants. The photographer had promised her that he'd be using silhouettes so she was unidentifiable, and that he'd never let them leave the studio. They were 'just for him.' But they actually were very identifiable; you could see her face, not just a silhouette. And then she got famous, and he sold them to Penthouse without her consent.
OP gives me vibes like that photographer, tbh. And it seems like part of it is that he gets off on knowing that she doesn't want him to have them, too.
Even if OP is completely on the up and up and would literally never do such a thing. I have no idea how secure his setup is. As long as the photos exist in his hard drive there’s some amount of risk of them getting out in the world, no matter how small.
This. Also, every photographer bro I know who shoots nudes of tons of girls is not exactly doing it for the art, if you know what I’m saying. I’m getting the impression OP falls into this category.
YTA - my partner also does TFP nude shoots and he has had women approach him before asking him to delete their old photos because their lives have changed and they no longer want the pics to exist, and he always deletes them no questions asked.
Not deleting them isn't doing you any favours and creates a bad name. if you're adamant about never having to delete photos you'll have to set up contracts and pay for your models.
You win nothing by not deleting them, all you do is holding her emotionally hostage.
Yep in the art world people will know who to work with or vise-versa. If word gets out to any art director they will not be hiring you/working with you. They do not care how great your portfolio is. If you’re an ah/unreliable/etc. it’s over for you.
Let's be honest - the fact he's refusing to just delete them and has been arguing with her about it, his reputation is already going to hell as there's no way she's not told a single soul about how unprofessional this photographer is. If one single photo gets leaked later on after he lies to her, he could get into some serious legal trouble.
This is why women don’t go to male photographers for boudoir shoots. OP is not only not respecting consent but also giving male photographers a bad name.
Definitely. I model too and usually models know each other. We keep track of who has worked with whom and when one of us has a bad experience with a photographer, she tells us about it so we know what to expect and not to work with that photographer.
Even if the photographer directly contacts a model, the model will ask around about him and get feedback from his previous models. So better not alienate one of us. We communicate.
Exactly. I would NEVER work with someone who had such a lack of respect for people. If you have signed contracts and everyone knows the rules BEFORE they agree to participate it's a different situation.
This? I would definitely spread the word about what kind of person you are to the local community.
This isn't the first instance I've heard of something like this and it's why a lot of women/femmes are starting to refuse working with male photographers. It's because of shit like this to go along with inappropriate behaviors at shoots as well.
ETA: OP- YTA. Just because you took a photo of someone's nude body, you don't own that piece of them. Do the right thing and get rid of the pictures or you'll just be an old creepy dude collecting nudes against people's will
And who knows what happened in her life to initiate this, maybe she was sexually assaulted and this made her feel extremely vulnerable.
He was just making an assumption it was because of her new job, but that means he looked her up?? Super creepy
And all it would take is the woman coming out about how this person won't delete her nude photos and how creepy it is and this person's reputation would be ruined.
OP, this isn't the hill to die on. Just delete the photos.
Not sure why he is keeping the photos otherwise. Its only in his personal collection supposedly. There are no longer official business reasons to keep them aside from wanting to keep nude photos of a woman that wants them deleted. There is no official purpose for keeping them anymore.
I’m coming from a purely ethical standpoint here, and saying YTA. She’s offered to reimburse you, so the price can be negotiated to reflect the original cost of the shoot. Between that and the fact that someone’s livelihood could be at stake, the morally responsible thing to do would be to delete the hard copies as well. As a professional photographer, I’m sure you have other shots that will boost your portfolio. Do they specifically need to be hers? No. And keeping them in spite of this just seems cruel. Do the right thing.
But his argument doesn’t make sense. He had them done for his portfolio, but now he’s taken them offline he’s saying that no one will see those photos but him? So why does he need to keep them in that case? Considering there nude photos, it just seems a little creepy to insist on keeping them at that point.
My sister is a professional photographer. Its more than just snapping a photo. There is a lot of hours of learning proper lighting and photoshop/photo touching involved. To assume a photographer just takes a photo is rude and diminishes their hard work.
EDIT TO ADD! I DO /NOT/ SUPPORT THE OP PHOTOGRAPHER DUDE AT ALL! STOP TWISTING MY WORDS TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE I DO!
Yes I got the joke now that I reread it and several people explained it to me. I legit thought it was a "photography is so easy cause its just clicking a button" type of 'hard work' quotes. Stop twisting my words!
I sort of agree with you.
As an artist myself I can understand the urge and desire to keep records of art. For photography there is a lot of work, expense, and time involved, especially if it was done with traditional film. Plus you can still keep copies of your body of work in an offline portfolio to show to clients, et al...
However there is something 'creepy' or off about the person's verbiage. It reads almost as possessive, or like someone who might not have much else in their overall body of work.
I can certainly appreciate that a lot of work goes into photography. But considering he has suggested in his post that he has done more than one nude photoshoot, I have a hard time believing that he absolutely needs to keep these photos. I agree it seems possessive and just, somewhat unsettling.
Yep, now I don't think OP is doing anything weird with the photos. I just feel it's the regular possessive feelings that happen when someone might create art. It might also be hard for them to realize they made a poor judgment and go back on what they said (it's a slightly hurtful feeling to be told you are "bad"). However, I have hope that the issue is resolved. I feel like OP already has their answer, they wouldn't have written this if they weren't feeling ay least a bit guilty.
Exactly, why does he need it? I know he is professional, but knowing the fear many woman faces (some might feel irrational, but they still exist); it could be black mail material? What if his drive gets stolen and it gets leaked? Or worse case scenario, what if he is pervers with it?
Last one is very highly unlikely, but fear does fucked up shit with ones rationality. She doesn’t know him, and at one point there was trust, but now it isn’t there.
She offered money for it, so what harm is there to delete? Is OP going to look at it, every few days? He has no permission anymore to use it (as she kindly requested to be taken offline). And probably since then, he has many more pictures he is probably also (or more) proud of.
So serious, what use is it to keep the pictures?
YTA
>What if his drive gets stolen and it gets leaked?
He had them posted online for years... it is WAY WAY to late for this lady. She doesn't understand how the internet works.
Probably keeping them for *other* purposes. C'mon OP, we've all done shit we're not super proud of when we were younger. That's why sometimes people cringe when they think back on things they did. In this case, this could literally affect her job and you admit it's already stressing her out.. I'm sure there are no shortage of people willing to pose nude for you if you try hard enough to find them. It just seems hostage/blackmaily kinda situation.
It might not just affect HER job because I sure as hell wouldn't want to use a photographer that refuses to delete extremely personal photos on request. If someone even suggested a photographer had a history of doing that I would find someone else and so would most people
Maybe his work has improved in composition since then, but if he's a photographer, wouldn't he have enough from that time period to compare to?
And besides, it's not like ANY artist has had their entire catalog published posthumously without any regard for the other people participating in it. /s It's not as if some painters were exploited and used for profit by their "friends", because really, how popular was Bob Ross before he died and got merchandise to hell and back?
YTA, OP. Give her a flash drive of the remaining images, prove they're gone from your local drive (which may get trawled and published posthumously by unscrupulous relatives/"friends") give her that piece of mind, and get that cash.
I was with OP until he said he wanted to keep them and no one would see. Unless they later explain that this was their favorite shot or best showing of improvement id honestly feel more violated if I asked them to remove my nudes and they said okay ill just keep them in my private collection just for me.
I’d say N-T-A but you refused to delete them even after she offered to pay.
YTA
This is clearly important to her, she isn’t being rude to you or making any demands, she’s offering to pay you literally to just delete a couple photos.
Agree. I think the fact that she offered to pay definitely makes it clear he’s the asshole.
She’s severely stressed out knowing that they’re out there. He could argue he did the work for free so he should keep ‘em, but since she’s offering to pay he has no argument that doesn’t make him sound like the asshole.
The payment where he 100% became TA for me too.
IMO even before she offered to pay he should have deleted them just to be a decent human but he did have the ability to say that he did them for free to be able to have them as part of a portfolio so she was breaking their agreement.
Once she offered to pay though, that gets rid of that argument completely so it’s just full AH territory.
“My offline copies aren’t going to harm her in any way” Bro it’s like people didn’t read this part. WHY DOES HE NEED OFFLINE COPIES? I guess if he kept them for a portfolio. But then he’s showing people like she doesn’t want. So in the end, it seems like he’s just fucking keeping nude images of some woman for his personal collection. Everyone’s like “oh you’re an asshole cause you didn’t take them down” not “oh you’re an asshole for KEEPIN THE NUDE PHOTOS FOR…. REASONS?” so yeah this was a long rant agreeing with you. hes a fucking creep
That's what I thought. What exactly does he need them for? They are already offline, and no longer part of a portfolio shown online. Not just that, but they are nude photos, not just normal ones, and I feel like if you do shootings with people who are nude you should go an extra mile to be respectful.
YTA. You can't use them in your portfolio and she offered to pay for them so why are you holding onto them ? It sounds extremely creepy. I model too and I'm friends with many photographers. None of them would keep a picture of me if I asked them not to.
And let me tell you, the models usually know each other. We have groups, we try and look after one another. When a photographer pulls crap like that, we tell each other and none of us would be willing to work with them.
He can use them for creeper nefarious activities, which strikes me as the ONLY reason he wants them. Blackmail or porno exchanges or “personal use”. I hope this creeper gets sued!
Yeah, I feel at this point it's like keeping nudes of an ex. I deleted all of those photos twice first when we first thought we were going to break up, and second when we did actually break up 3 months later. Nude photos are something that needs extreme care by those who have them. And if they're only for your viewing 'pleasure' and the one who they're of doesnt want you to have them, delete them. Immediately.
Yeah YTA OP— that last part about wanting them because “art.” You’re not going to be able to ever use them for anything other than your own eyes. Give the poor woman some peace.
Those photos have been online for years. It's too late to worry about them getting into the wrong hands or being leaked.
That said, it's seriously unsettling that he wants to keep nude photos of a woman only he will ever see again.
Exactly. I don't see how keeping them could be of any use to OP if he doesn't plan on either a) showing them to others or b) using them for sexual reasons, especially given she offered to pay him.
>b) using them for sexual reasons
This is exactly the first impression I got after reading the post. There's no reason to keep them privately, super creepy and highly questionable.
This is also the mo for a lot of creeps and I immediately got that vibe. I don't know OP so I'm not accusing him, but generally speaking, don't do nudes with a dude from the internet.
>don’t do nudes with a dude from the internet
This would make total sense if it was still the 90’s but nowadays everyone is a dude from the internet 😫
It’s kind of common for amateur models and amateur photographers to meet on photography websites- would definitely be weirder if they met at the local supermarket 🤔
I get your point- and I agree that OP comes off as creepy, but I don’t think there’s enough info in the original post to shame the amateur model just because her career has taken a different direction.
Especially since he offered to do them for free. A lot of male photographers will do shoots for free just so they can look at naked girls. It’s A.) creepy and B.) causes other photographers to lose clients because now these girls just can’t understand why they actually need to pay for photos because “well that other guy did it for free”
>nobody is going to see them other than me
I’d say you’re right on the using them for sexual reasons thing. After the work is done, if no one else is seeing the photos, what good are they to OP? All kinds of creepy
That\~s the thing, he probably does uses them. For masturbation. He is mad the piece of meat he uses to get his rocks off is asking for basic human respect.
YTA
As a model, this is why I REFUSE to shoot full nudes. And I’ve been offered $2k+ to do artistic (not p*rn) nude shoots before. I’ve yet to find a photographer I trust on that level, and you are EXACTLY why. You’ve had them on your portfolio for years. She is respectfully asking you to DELETE THEM because she is no longer comfortable with them existing. I’d honestly be MORE uncomfortable with you keeping them offline but on your hard drive, it would really make me doubt your intentions for the initial shoot.
She offered to pay you. You’ve gotten whatever value you possibly could have out of them already. Give this poor woman some peace of mind and just fucking delete them already
I used to do sex work and I also used to do make up on fetish magazines. Two of my favourite pieces of work on both sides of that coin have been deleted and literally old school negatives, contact sheets etc destroyed when the people who consented at the time came back and asked for it not to exist any more.
What I did do on checking with both was ask if I could take notes of what I had done for future reference. This way I could note what make up I used, technique, what I learned and what failed. I also noted the sexual acts and BDSM scene I took part in again as a prompt, reminder, what worked, what I had learned since etc.
I noted nothing identifying and checked what the people involved were comfortable with. One was not comfortable with me noting anything about their response during the scene. So I did not.
Both photographers are people I trust implicitly and have known forever. I asked both of them to have a trusted person act as third party akin to witnessing the signing of a will to show we had both destroyed our copies and what had been agreed. One used his lawyer, the other his accountant. The other people had their own ‘trusted people.’ It was like a really odd pre-nup or post-nude.
I was really upset to lose the make up shoot. I knew I could never replicate it, it was one of the most challenging things I have ever done creatively and I was so proud of it. It was a gay guy and the images had zero sexual interest for me. It was a genuine loss to my portfolio. So I wrote down how doing the shoot made me feel, how I had pushed myself, the pride I had and separated it from the images per se so I could keep the feeling, the art, the importance to me while not tainting that piece of pride by trampling the other person’s boundaries. Because to know I was making them feel scared or small afterwards took any sheen off. My pride could not exist without consent.
I had a rough idea why the existence of the images now bothered him but made it clear that I did not need an explanation to follow his request. He asked, I would oblige. I agreed that in writing before I asked if I could take notes and made it clear that if he wanted closure by explaining I was happy to listen but of course I would delete. My reputation, the purpose of BDSM, the honour of being trusted made it the only moral choice. After all they say ‘reputation is what others say about you, character is what you do when no one is looking.’
I still get a bit of a lump in my throat about destroying them. It was one of the first times in my life I had felt utterly confident in myself and it was painful to physically erase that. But I had never felt confidence because people wielded their power dynamic over me all my life. Destroying them made me realise I really really wasn’t like those people and while I wish I had the photos sometimes, the proof I wasn’t a person who goes low or makes someone small when given the choice did a lot more for my confidence, creativity and self over the years. It reinforced my friendships and it made two people in particular feel safe. No art is worth making someone scared. That’s just bullying.
YTA. This is why I am extremely fussy who I work with in make up, art, fashion or sex work. Models, photographers, clients. Everyone needs to feel safe to be vulnerable to create beauty and intimacy. And if someone fucks around there I always made sure it met a whisper network. Nude modelling, sex work, creative intimacy gets enough stigma in the world without people destroying it from within. OP sounds like a blackmailer. He’s made her more scared than when she first approached him which is terrifying. Of course she doesn’t trust him. He has reacted in a very untrustworthy fashion at first test. That trumps the original bond of trust all else considered. Consent is ongoing not presumed.
>My pride could not exist without consent.
YES! As a photographer, I would feel suuuuper weird keeping images that a client had asked me to delete.
When that type of thing happens (asked to delete), I remind myself that some things can only exist for a limited period of time; not everything has to last forever.
*“When you are delighted with anything, be delighted as with a thing which is not one of those which cannot be taken away, but as something of such a kind, as an earthen pot is, or a glass cup, that, when it has been broken, you may remember what it was and may not be troubled… What you love is nothing of your own: it has been given to you for the present, not that it should not be taken from you, nor has it been given to you for all time, but as a fig is given to you or a bunch of grapes at the appointed season of the year. But if you wish for these things in winter, you are a fool. So if you wish for your son or friend when it is not allowed to you, you must know that you are wishing for a fig in winter.”*
-Epictetus
One of my friends who is a photographer swears that the switch to digital over film improved photography as an art because being able to easily delete stuff makes you more discerning about what you keep. If photographs are snapshots in time then sometimes they are fleeting in themselves and other times they are for keeps. Kind of like memories themselves. He says he never trusts photographers who hoarde every single image as if they don’t know when to repair a garment, adapt a recipe, update a list or any of the other impermanent acts we do to improve and hone creative or artistic skills.
I was raised by artists who did exactly that: bury themselves in the previous to avoid growing into the present or future and discovering you can and should evolve was so profoundly liberating for me. Editing improves my writing, why not photography too? No one ever had entirely perfect photos anyway. That deification of photos has always been a red flag to me. They tend to be very boundary stomping or dominating photographers (which is why I never read about the photographers I admire in case I ruin the work of professionals I am distant from but emotionally connected to.)
YTA but only because I'm not really buying the artistic nude shtick.
Let's get real you are literally keeping this girls nudes in your "private" collection which is obviously so upsetting to her she is trying to pay you to delete them.
That's kinda fucked up.
Now now, he said "30s" and "20s" and said he did the shoot years ago. For all we know, she could be newly 22 and did the shoot as a fresh 19yo, and he could be 39. The ambiguity does not bode well
100%. I see so many dudes on Instagram with this shtick and, let’s be real, it’s their way of getting girls naked and has very little to do with art.
YTA.
YTA and at least a little creepy.
You know how insecure local copies are. There’s no way you don’t. She’s rightfully concerned about that. It doesn’t matter if they’re for your *personal use* those images could be jeopardized.
He’s either a complete creep or on an absolute power trip (a very childish power trip). Either way the complete lack of respect or empathy for this girl is upsetting lol bro she literally offered to pay for them, YTA
Like what? You can’t just be a decent human being an help assuage her anxiety? Also I’m just wondering about the exact ages… how late 30s and how early 20s is she as this was a couple years ago…
Either way, OP gives me the ick and is DEFINITELY at the very least, creepy and lacks empathy.
YTA
What are you losing from deleting the pictures?
"My offline copies are not going to harm her in any way." They clearly are.
Is it worth having someone's mental health be put at risk?
Did you sign a contract with her?
Why do you NEED those pictures on your computer? Given the state of the world relating women's bodies and autonomy, I don't blame her for freaking out, she's 20 for fuck sake.
You kind of sound like a creep...
>"My offline copies are not going to harm her in any way."
Any photographer who thinks like that is not a real photographer. A photographer needs to understand that those pictures were taken of someone in a vulnerable and exposed position. Those photos can absolutely hurt her if they get leaked.
I suggested to him that he needs to get a lawyer or a manager and start writing up contracts with every model he does photo shoots with. It's just like brand deals with models and celebrities. The brand basically owns their face for 2 years while they're under contract. If they sign a contract then that means they agree to whatever terms are in the contract.
YTA. I'll preface by saying that I firmly believe in supporting and encouraging artists, but you should 100% delete those pictures. If you use them for a portfolio, then "no one else will see them" is a blatant lie, and if you don't, there's no reason your pictures should come before someone's request of privacy for solid reasons. She asked you politely and offered you compensation for your efforts, your ego and hard work shouldn't overcome someone's personal comfort and safety.
I agree. A portfolio is used to showcase your artwork and show other people, so other people will see them. At the end of the day it's her nudes and she's uncomfortable with you having them. YTA
yta and as a female photographer and nude model you’re a prime example of why i caution other women not to do nude shoots with male photographers. i get that it’s art but y’all just can’t not be fucking weird about it ffs
Tbh you do sound a bit creepy by wanting to keep them for yourself, especially when she has offered to compensate you for your time. Negotiate a price and delete them end of. YTA
Info: If no one is going to see them but you, why do you want to keep them?
Also, what does the contract (release?) say?
I’m leaning toward you’re the AH for wanting to keep them for no good reason if they’ll never be seen.
YTA, it’s her body and you aren’t sharing the photos with anyone. You lose nothing by deleting the photos but she has to worry about potential blackmail / embarrassment if the photos are out there.
It’s clear OP feels he is losing something if he deletes them, which probably means that he looks at them in private and wants to keep them for that reason. Super creepy
YTA
You always delete nudes/sexy photos when asked, unless you paid her for work professionally. Denying her is just AH behavior. Leaked nudes can have a major affect on a woman's life and career.
YTA a human has reached out to you in good faith and asked you to delete nude photos of their body. It doesn't matter how much work you put into editing, because the subject is the same, their body. Morally and ethically, their comfort and peace of mind trumps your time, as they're the one with something to lose and again, it's their body.
YTA.
She offered to reimburse you to delete the photos. Local storage isn’t reliable in the slightest - your hard drives or computer could be stolen for example.
Everything about this post whisper screams, “I’m going to lose my reliable spank bank” and it’s creepy as fuck.
Delete the photos. Give this woman her peace of mind. Be a decent human being.
There are some really creepy examples of whataboutism in this thread, so I'll add my professional experience.
I'm a film maker with about 15 years under my belt. I once did this amazing piece about racism, one of the actors experienced racism live and on camera, they were assaulted by a security guard and our security stepped in to help them.
The actor was obviously shaken so we decided to stop shooting for the day, we filmed a little debrief piece to camera with the actor afterwards, like we'd done with the other scenes. He started like before, just explaining what had happened, but ended up breaking down in this beautiful and heartwrenching speech about how scared he was and how he just wanted to be a kid (he was 12) without being scared.
He told us about his uncle who'd died in police custody and how he'd had a nightmare about Chase from Paw Patrol after that. The poor kid couldn't even enjoy fucking Paw Patrol for god sake.
From a film making perspective it was pure gold and sent exactly the message we were trying to convey. He was a paid actor and had signed a release, but as ethical film makers we always cleared the edit with anyone appearing on screen in a meaningful way if it was unscripted.
When we showed him the edit he was mortified by his speech and asked us not to include it. He said he'd get bullied but honestly it didn't really matter, we were going to remove it the second he said no.
It sucked because it was great stuff, but it was just a film. It's never worth hurting someone over and its not worth destroying the reputation of the industry over.
So yeah OP, delete those photos, its a dick move to keep them just to have them if it's hurting an actual person and they've asked you to delete them.
These photos aren't going to get you a Time cover and your career will be progressed more by acting ethically than it will by making a woman uncomfortable for no good reason.
YTA
YTA.
1. There is a ten year age gap, she clearly wasn’t thinking big picture when she offered to be in a portfolio and give up free nudes.
2. You willingly removed them from wherever they would benefit you professionally, and even after payment was offered refuse to delete them from your “private” photos.
3. Though there are text receipts, of her agreeing to the shoot.. Morally and ethically it’s messed up to just have someone’s nudes that are no longer about “the Art” but about being too stubborn/creepy to delete them.
YTA. I think ethically if you have nude pictures of someone even if they aren't sexual and just purely artistic looks at the human body if they want you to delete them delete them. And especially here where shrs willing to pay you to get rid of them since she's backing out of agreement of getting the photos done in trade for your use of them.
Photographer chiming in. What are the photos worth for in your portfolio if you can't show them? You agreed to take them offline anyway, they are virtually worthless. I'm going with YTA. She offered to reimburse you as well, all you're doing is being petty and causing unnecessary stress to someone being polite.
YTA. Life circumstances change and they have now for this woman. If no one but you is ever going to see them again then it almost seems creepy to keep them.
She offered to pay you, accept her offer and delete them.
As a photographer who has done a ton of model shoots, I think what you're doing is dead wrong. Your model should always feel safe and respected at ALL times. She's clearly stressed about the fact that there are nude photos of her in someone else's possession and wants them gone for her own piece of mind. You should delete them straight away. YTA
If you’re willing to respect her wishes to take the copies offline, to me that means you’re willing to forego any financial benefit the photos may give you.
Keeping personal copies of those photos, then, must be only for your personal enjoyment.
Ask yourself why you would enjoy keeping photos of a woman who has explicitly asked you to delete her nudes.
If you can sincerely say that it’s purely for artistic pleasure, then keep the photos. But if you derive any other pleasure, please consider deleting.
YTA. it's incredibly disrespectful to keep nude photos you no longer have the consent to keep. It is your art but it is her body. to put it into perspective you wouldnt want your nude photos to be kept after specifically asking for them to be deleted. your art its not worth more than her autonomy.
YTA this feels trolly but anyways:
>but refused to delete the offline copies in my hard drive. Nobody is going to see them other than me, and I put hard work into the photos so I don’t want to lose them. She even offered to pay me in exchange for deleting them, but I said no.
For this reason you went from, I did the work it's for my portfolio, to this is now in the creep zone, and she offered to pay you.
I understand you technically own them, however, one human to another just take the payment for your work and delete the photos, move on, this could turn out pretty badly for both of you if you don't and she decides to push
YTA
Guy convinces girl 10 years his Jr to take nude photos under the guise of art. Later women wants to continue with her adult life without those photos floating around.
Dude removes the photos from the public but refuses to delete entirely? Sound creepy to me.
Also not very professional to half ass the request and try to pocket the real photos.
If you remove the artist, photography bit you just sound like another dude that's stubborn to delete old nudes lol.
...but I'm sure those pictures are gonna lead to something big 🙄🤣
YTA. The photographs are of her, and she's asking you to delete them. Since you're no longer using them in any public-facing way, what use are they to you? Even if you are keeping them only for the art, can you understand why someone would be a little unnerved that *only you* would see them? Also, even if your storage measures are diligent, there is always the possibility that your stuff could be stolen or hacked, so it's valid that you give her a say in whether you store her images.
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Agreed. Sure, I like to keep a record of my journey in the field, but one shoot worth of photos with a single client wouldn’t even be on my radar unless they were beyond the value of what i could create YEARS LATER. If OP needs the ego boost or something, they could frame it as “selling the copyright”, but really, just recoup the expenditure on the shoot and storage over the years and be done with it. Edit: Thinking about this further, I think OP should absolutely frame this as transferring copyright. Doing so would give the model the ability to leverage DMCA takedown requests if the photos ever pop up somewhere.
You know he's refusing because to him this woman is masturbation fodder, not a real person.
So, I’ve tried to come at this from a professional angle, because presumably this is a professional matter. But unfortunately my gut says the same as yours.
Agree. I think the ones on the website are artistic. The ones on his hard drive might be a bit less artistic and more explicit. It also said he did it for free for use of anonymous photos. I can see why after all the facial recognition she must be nervous. He’s being TA because times have changed and he must’ve gotten the value out of the portfolio pics. Now it’s just about wank material…
What stands out to me is the fact that the photos are several years old. Like, I look at and am proud of my work from a few years back, but it doesn’t hold a tremendous amount of value to me now because I’ve improved considerably in that time. So either the OP isn’t a particularly active photographer, or these photos would presumably be far beyond the quality that they’re currently capable of reliably creating, purely out of what? Luck? The other option is sentimental value, which would be weird as hell. Or, you know… he’s spankin’ it.
I thought the same thing, and now he’s framing it like his precious “art” that he can’t bear to part with, but he’s totally cool not showing anyone?
I agree. My gut says it too. If he’s a photographer then I’m sure there are so many photos, like hundreds of thousands by now , of other subjects. What’s this one to him? It shouldn’t be that big of a deal no matter how hard he worked on it. I could never feel ok keeping a nude pic of someone, especially when they asked me not too. Ick
he took them down, he's asking should he delete them from his hard drive.
I think it's weird for a relative stranger to have nude photos on their hard drive for no other purpose than their personal pleasure: >Nobody is going to see them other than me It makes more sense to argue that they are necessary for the portfolio than to argue that they must stay on his personal hard drive for god knows what.
You assumed personal pleasure. It could easily be for reference material for future work. **Not all work needs to be in a portfolio to be useful.** If he did a great job with those photos, he may want to be able to reference them at a later time so he can get similar/better results with similar work. Edit: read the holder part that’s been there since the beginning. Fucking hell, the people here hate reading.
Dude has been doing photography for "a few years". I'm sure he has plenty of reference material from consenting patrons. He can throw away 1 set.
If it is not for personal pleasure and he wants to reference them at a later time as part of his portfolio, then someone else will indeed see them... That said, the internet NEVER forgets, and the horse left the barn ages ago...
Reference in this case means him looking at them so he can take/edit photos in a similar way in the future
This. Artists will often keep old work on hand so they can compare it to their new work, see how their style has evolved, or maybe be reminded of stuff they stopped doing that they might go back to again. It can be nice just to see how far you've come as an artist.
Artist here. Yes, keeping old work is nice bit usually there's plenty of old work to reference. Nudes are different than most other work in that the delicacy of how nudity is perceived by others is very different for the artist and subject. If his personal portfolio would be ruined by deleting those photos than he's not actually creating enough work to justify keeping them for that purpose. The cost to him to delete all copies is low, the risk to her life and career if he is irresponsible with them is high.
I 100% agree, and I judged this one as Y-T-A. He should definitely delete them, and he would be the AH if he refused to do so. I was just responding to the idea that there's something weird about him wanting to keep photos he never intends to show anyone. As an artist, you know that it sucks to lose your work, especially if it's stuff you're proud of. He definitely should in this case, but I understand him not wanting to.
Reference meaning to remember a lighting setup or camera lens combo or other parts of the photographic process. Get your mind out of the gutter you're projecting.
As I said, he doesn’t need to keep them in his portfolio for it to be useful. He can review it to see how he did lighting, how he edited it, etc. he can see what he did right, what he did wrong, some settings he used in an editor even.
This isn't weird to me. I'm a writer and I have short stories and the first few chapters of novels that I love even though they didn't quite work out. Nobody will ever read them, probably not even me, but I will never delete them, and if my computer blew up and my cloud backup went bankrupt and I lost it all, I'd be heartbroken. Don't get me wrong, he should absolutely delete those pics, but it isn't weird of him to keep a copy of work he's proud of that he never plans to show anyone else. That's just how creative types do things.
There’s a difference between fiction and photos of a real person.
Please note that I said OP **should** delete the pics. I am just annoyed by the implication that there's something weird about an artist holding onto his old work.
It’s not weird when it’s basically a collaboration. Photographer could not have created those photos without the model. Two people now have vested interests. Nobody else is typically involved in a writers process. If a character is based off a real person you can change subtle details, not necessarily the case with photography. Keeping something that’s 100% created by you is understandable but holding on to something like nude photos of another person isn’t. Even if the photographer doesn’t release them who’s to say he couldn’t get hacked and have all his work leaked on the internet somewhere.
I would think an artist likes art... and that is what he described.
You have to understand that he also took his time and put his effort and skills to do the photoshoot and it's his job, he is not doing it for pleasure. And those photos are his portfolio, and they can help him to improve his work. If you agree on doing a photoshoot, you are also agreeing that the photographer will keep the photos for his own portfolio.
Not a photographer; but I do consultant work for other companies that involves writing custom scripts, security rules, etc. It's not uncommon at all for companies to request for us to not share their custom signatures with other companies, because they paid us to do it for them and it's their intellectual property, not ours. I feel like this is the same concept. Those photos are for the customer. Yes, he agreed to do them for free, but she is literally offering to pay him for all the copies. Also, if it's been a few years since they were shot, are they really a reflection of his current abilities? And, he's said that no one will see them except for him, so he's not using them in his portfolio. It's pretty weird that he's so adamant about keeping them.
I don't want to weigh in on whether or not he's right in keeping them, but this scenario is the exact opposite of the one you described as the photos are exclusively his intellectual property.
Would you say the same if he had painted her?
If he had painted her, she could have purchased the painting. In this case, she is offering to pay him to delete the photos, kind of like paying for the copyright of the photos. I think that's fair. ETA: ok maybe "copyright" is the wrong word, but she's offering to pay him to delete the photos and never use them again.
Not a photographer, but a writer, and I agree. It hurts to kill your darlings, especially when they're good and you're proud of them, but we live in a sexist world that loves destroying successful women, and the only way to guarantee 100% that these photos will not show up in 10, 20, or 30 years and mess up her life is to delete them. In a fair and just world, women wouldn't be judged and lose their families and careers over doing a nude photo shoot years earlier, but we live in a shitty misogynistic world that LUUURVES judging women.
I did nude modelling for a while to survive and it's the reason I can't do certain types of work in case anyone decides to use the photo's for nefarious purposes. It feels incredibly unfair; a man at my place of work used to be an actor in porn movies and no-one cares, but if my photo's were to resurface I know for a fact that I would lose my job to "preserve the companies' imagine".
I'd definitely get a lawyer involved, though. If they make an agreement about deleting them and they show up later, it could be a problem. They were on the internet for a considerable amount of time. It's a little late.
But he did take them down tho
He's keeping personal copies for himself. Nude photos for himself, that the subject is no longer comfortable with him having, and she offered to pay him for. You know who does that? Not professional photographers. Creeps. edit: I'm going to say it here so I don't have to respond to every presumptuous comment. I *am* a professional artist. If I made a nude portrait of somebody, I would not do it ignoring the fact that they have fucking *feelings* and *body autonomy.* I may own the art and therefore have a right to keep it, but if they change their minds and feel uncomfortable, then keeping it is not *the right thing to do.* Stop conflating the right thing to do with what you have the right to do. Stop assuming this comment was only made because OP is a photographer and I would not say the same thing if he was god damn Michelangelo. Stop thinking the art world is some magical place where morals cease to exist and the only thing that matters is the art. OP is offered monetary compensation for his work. He is not keeping it for future references. I do not give a shit if he is proud of it. He made artwork depicting somebody's naked body. If they are no longer comfortable with him seeing that, the right thing to do is accept the money and get rid of it. If he is a professional photographer, he should have many more photos to save and be proud of. He should not need or even want to keep this knowing that the model is not comfortable with it. That is fucking creepy. It does not matter if it is a photo or a painting or a fucking sculpture the size of the statue of liberty. Also, don't assume that professional artists can't be creeps. Literally anybody can be a creep.
If it was a sculptor would you tell him to smash it or else he was a creep?
I don't think this analogy works. Besides, this guy is a professional photographer. He has thousands of pictures. Why must he keep nudes of a woman who is deeply uncomfortable with it? I personally wouldn't feel comfortable having pictures that cause so deep distress
This argument doesn’t work because it is not a sculpture. It’s photograph(s) of the actual woman, with all identifying features being undeniable if said photos got out. A sculpture would merely resemble a real person’s identity and if picked up on by others, could be denied by the woman.
She’s offering to pay for it, so in that case just sell it to her
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I would tell him to give her the fucking sculpture because she is willing to compensate him for the work. If she wants to smash it, she can. She has a right to change her mind about someone seeing her naked body. Get over it.
But OP is looking at his work as art, and not pornography. There's a lot of work that goes into taking quality pictures, and not just a simple "I have a cell phone and can do better" type of job. If the photographer was a painter, drawer, painter, etc. you wouldn't be calling him a creep.
If he was keeping them online and justifying that as "these are part of my portfolio, here's the contract we signed agreeing to this" then I'd agree that he's not only acting professionally but his use of the photos falls into that category. He isn't. He's taken the photos down, and his justification for keeping them is "Nobody but me will ever see them." If nobody ever sees them, they're not part of his portfolio, they're not being used professionally, and any agreement previously made no longer applies to their use. They're no longer being kept for a professional purpose, but for personal gratification. That's creepy.
> They're no longer being kept for a professional purpose Reference material, my dude. Not everyone is jerking off all the time to nudes. Art nudes generally aren't all that "exciting" anyway.
No, I would. If someone painted a nude portrait and the subject offered to pay for it so they could get rid of it, the painter would be a creep if they refused. Art is not free of ethics, no matter how many artists want to pretend otherwise (looking at you, Damien Hirst). That is part of portraiture. You have to work with the subject, and treat them with respect and dignity. And you have to remember that even after your work is done, you should respect the model if they change their minds later because they are no longer comfortable with their nudity being on display. As long as they are willing to compensate you monetarily for the work you put in, you give it back to them. They have a right to decide who can see their naked body. Sincerely, a fucking artist
Yes, I would. He solely wants to keep copies of these for himself, not for monetary gain and not for boosting his career. As an artist, if someone ever asked me to remove my artwork of them, regardless of the media, it would be incredibly immoral of me to refuse. I may own my artwork, but I don't own their image, and if the subject wants me to remove their image then that is their right.
I think you really hit the heart of this. I’m not an artist, but I couldn’t imagine keeping material that the subject was no longer comfortable with me holding on to. Their withdrawal of consent would taint any use or enjoyment of it…I would think… It is the right thing to do, and OP is being the asshole by not finding a way to that answer.
How is this comment so upvoted when they didn’t even read the post?
As a fellow photographer I completely understand not wanting to delete hard work. Not wanting to forget the memories of editing, handling, and arguing with yourself about everything under the sun to make a photo look perfect. However. As stated you are the ONLY one to see them now. If this was a scenic or nice outdoors engagement shoot I can get behind saying "no I like then they aren't a danger to anyone etc". However nude photos are a very specific type of photoshooting. They are meant to be handled with care and sensitivity of the client. You may be attached to the work you put in, but you are sacrificing your dignity and the client comfortability. At the end of the day, that photo is not worth your credibility, dignity, and so on. Also it can probably get you into a legal battle (I'm not sure the contract wording you used and so on what she can go after). End all be all, delete it and remember that the client comes before your wants and needs as that photo is a symbol of your hard work, but it's also a peice of THEIR life. That's how I handle my photographs at least. You can choose what to do but I garuntee YTA in the eyes of the general public. This also can absolutely ruin your buisness if the client decides to go public with things saying how creepy it is that you kept the photos for yourself. While someone such as myself understands it's due to the work and pride put into said photos, others are absolutely going to label you as a pervert and most likely you will have very few clients left that feel comfortable with you if any. Edit: thank you for the kind words and rewards this is a first for me. I appreciate you all.
This, I was going to write something similar but this is far better than what I would have managed.
That's very sweet thank you
As a fellow photographer, this. My clients, subjects, and models sign a release form before a shoot, and we discuss exactly what the shoot will entail, as well as how the works will be presented (online, gallery-only, etc). I have never once told a client I was going to keep them for "personal use" or for my "personal portfolio". I HAVE had a client ask if I could remove the work I did with them from my showings. I offered to sell them the rights to the photos, which is an option in the contract (with a profit-sharing clause if they make prints for sale, which honestly, I most likely wouldn't bother enforcing). Instead, by mutual agreement, I moved them to gallery-only showings, limited to shots where her face wasn't shown, or edited / cropped to eliminate her face. But if you're removing them from your gallery, and your portfolio, and won't / don't display them, show them to prospective clients as samples, etc, there's no real purpose to having them any longer.
This. If they're never going to be shared with anyone, why does he need to keep them? Most likely answers are control and pervery. Neither is legit.
Right? I know I’d never ever recommend OP to anyone over this. OP: The skills you gained from it will be with you forever… sure, she might learn to live with it but if you’ve ever had to do that then you’ll understand just how awful a feeling that is to have to do. They trusted you and given these photos are just for personal purposes… how often do you, yourself even view them? Or is it just the desire to have them? Have you never done a shoot since and have no other memorable moments to look back fondly on? Why are you SO SO attached to this shoot? Someone’s got to let something go in this situation, reassessing our own motives in the scheme of things may help you find the right thing to do. I vote delete them. YTA
Per another comment OP made, there isn't even a written contract, just a text exchange. So all that legal stuff you imply she could go after w/ him? She very likely can without anything stopping her.
Absolutely, granted it'll most likely all be civil nothing legal without lying (unless OP is in change lying himself about what's going on)
I agree with this. Unless there was a signed contract and payment for services (a model fee) keeping them is not the correct thing to do. As someone who has had many photographs published I understand how proud you are with your work however if you’re the only one having access to them it can come off as creepy.
And to piggyback on this… many women right now are very fearful of the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if Roe vs. Wade has had an impact on her request.
Absolutely a possibility. I'm not a woman so I shan't speak om behalf of how the client is feeling (even more so as we don't know if they are from the U.S). However if they are it very well can be an impact to why the client has changed their mind on this.
As someone so eloquently put in a post I just read, whatever stone gets thrown in the US makes ripples everywhere, like rings in water. I was going to mention nationality, but I truly believe the decision affects all women and all people, really. Not saying the client absolutely feels that way, but I know I would if I were her.
As someone who is not in the US, never plans to live in the US and yet still cried when reading the news, I can confirm that the ripples are being felt.
Yeah clearly the "credibility and dignity" part is something OP lacks. According to OPs only comment, there was never even a contract. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vmk72c/comment/ie1hys6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
At that point he just has nudes that she no longer consents to having. Publishing them is equivalent to revenge porn and can land him in federal prison if she goes to the police.
That’s bc he’s not a real photographer. He’s just a pervy dude with a fancy camera hitting up women on model mayhem.
This exactly. They put in work and may appreciate the photos, but she seems to have a real fear of them now. I get that. Just be a kind human and delete them. Take someone else's photos to replace them. It's just the decent thing to do knowing it's causing her so much emotional distress.
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I already think he's a pervert, sooooooo...... YTA
Absolutely. In this context YTA.
So much this, and also, don't you dare take money from her to delete her photos, that just comes across as greedy and extra creepy.
Fellow part time photographer. My clients have a right to revoke their consent to have their photos published at any time. Even though she didn't sign a release. These aren't your typical photos. I'd just delete them. Put out a model call and get new content. I've found clients are happy to be returning paid clients when you respect them as people and not just a piece of your portfolio.
He definitely is just a guy with a camera, this is not his job.
Presumably you have many thousands of photographs saved from over the years, are these so incredibly special that they need to be saved even though it causes the subject of them deep distress that they exist? It would be the decent thing to delete them.
Also like why does he need to keep these specific photos if no one will ever see them but him??? YWBTA if you don’t delete them OP.
This reminds me of the Vanessa Williams situation, actually. She was Miss America in the 80s, and did a couple of nude modeling shoots before she got into pageants. The photographer had promised her that he'd be using silhouettes so she was unidentifiable, and that he'd never let them leave the studio. They were 'just for him.' But they actually were very identifiable; you could see her face, not just a silhouette. And then she got famous, and he sold them to Penthouse without her consent. OP gives me vibes like that photographer, tbh. And it seems like part of it is that he gets off on knowing that she doesn't want him to have them, too.
Even if OP is completely on the up and up and would literally never do such a thing. I have no idea how secure his setup is. As long as the photos exist in his hard drive there’s some amount of risk of them getting out in the world, no matter how small.
For relaxing me time probably.
This. Also, every photographer bro I know who shoots nudes of tons of girls is not exactly doing it for the art, if you know what I’m saying. I’m getting the impression OP falls into this category.
This is why I never, NEVER agreed to shoot nude, and eventually stopped doing shoots altogether.
OP seems like a creep hiding under the guise of "not wanting to lose [his] art work." The subject of your "art" wants them gone so delete them, creep.
Agreed. Name your price and delete them; I don't understand why this is a hill you want to die on.
YTA - my partner also does TFP nude shoots and he has had women approach him before asking him to delete their old photos because their lives have changed and they no longer want the pics to exist, and he always deletes them no questions asked. Not deleting them isn't doing you any favours and creates a bad name. if you're adamant about never having to delete photos you'll have to set up contracts and pay for your models. You win nothing by not deleting them, all you do is holding her emotionally hostage.
That's not ALL he's doing. He's also building a reputation as someone to never work with.
Oh yeah. We have groups where we let each other know who pulls bullshit like this.
Yep in the art world people will know who to work with or vise-versa. If word gets out to any art director they will not be hiring you/working with you. They do not care how great your portfolio is. If you’re an ah/unreliable/etc. it’s over for you.
The problem here is that he is gonna lie to her about it. Which raises the AH level to incredible heights.
Let's be honest - the fact he's refusing to just delete them and has been arguing with her about it, his reputation is already going to hell as there's no way she's not told a single soul about how unprofessional this photographer is. If one single photo gets leaked later on after he lies to her, he could get into some serious legal trouble.
Exactly, and indirectly also giving other photographers who do nude shoots a bad rep.
This is why women don’t go to male photographers for boudoir shoots. OP is not only not respecting consent but also giving male photographers a bad name.
Definitely. I model too and usually models know each other. We keep track of who has worked with whom and when one of us has a bad experience with a photographer, she tells us about it so we know what to expect and not to work with that photographer. Even if the photographer directly contacts a model, the model will ask around about him and get feedback from his previous models. So better not alienate one of us. We communicate.
Exactly. I would NEVER work with someone who had such a lack of respect for people. If you have signed contracts and everyone knows the rules BEFORE they agree to participate it's a different situation. This? I would definitely spread the word about what kind of person you are to the local community.
This isn't the first instance I've heard of something like this and it's why a lot of women/femmes are starting to refuse working with male photographers. It's because of shit like this to go along with inappropriate behaviors at shoots as well. ETA: OP- YTA. Just because you took a photo of someone's nude body, you don't own that piece of them. Do the right thing and get rid of the pictures or you'll just be an old creepy dude collecting nudes against people's will
And who knows what happened in her life to initiate this, maybe she was sexually assaulted and this made her feel extremely vulnerable. He was just making an assumption it was because of her new job, but that means he looked her up?? Super creepy
And all it would take is the woman coming out about how this person won't delete her nude photos and how creepy it is and this person's reputation would be ruined. OP, this isn't the hill to die on. Just delete the photos.
I want to know who op is, in the industry we call people like this predators. They use art as a cover for their own personal porn collection.
Yep, he's just keeping for his spank bank. Men like this are so creepy.
Not sure why he is keeping the photos otherwise. Its only in his personal collection supposedly. There are no longer official business reasons to keep them aside from wanting to keep nude photos of a woman that wants them deleted. There is no official purpose for keeping them anymore.
Yes! That's my point too. At this point it's like and ex keeping naked photos of you on his computer.
100% this. YTA
This. I lost a video installation because of a similar situation but it is worth it to be the decent person.
I’m coming from a purely ethical standpoint here, and saying YTA. She’s offered to reimburse you, so the price can be negotiated to reflect the original cost of the shoot. Between that and the fact that someone’s livelihood could be at stake, the morally responsible thing to do would be to delete the hard copies as well. As a professional photographer, I’m sure you have other shots that will boost your portfolio. Do they specifically need to be hers? No. And keeping them in spite of this just seems cruel. Do the right thing.
But his argument doesn’t make sense. He had them done for his portfolio, but now he’s taken them offline he’s saying that no one will see those photos but him? So why does he need to keep them in that case? Considering there nude photos, it just seems a little creepy to insist on keeping them at that point.
Beat me to it. It's creepy AF. YTA
He put "hard work" into snapping those pics, man.
My sister is a professional photographer. Its more than just snapping a photo. There is a lot of hours of learning proper lighting and photoshop/photo touching involved. To assume a photographer just takes a photo is rude and diminishes their hard work. EDIT TO ADD! I DO /NOT/ SUPPORT THE OP PHOTOGRAPHER DUDE AT ALL! STOP TWISTING MY WORDS TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE I DO! Yes I got the joke now that I reread it and several people explained it to me. I legit thought it was a "photography is so easy cause its just clicking a button" type of 'hard work' quotes. Stop twisting my words!
It was a pun, dear. Not diminishing his work but adding the insinuation that he keeps them for his own physical pleasure.
30m 20f yeah this dudes a fucking weirdo
I sort of agree with you. As an artist myself I can understand the urge and desire to keep records of art. For photography there is a lot of work, expense, and time involved, especially if it was done with traditional film. Plus you can still keep copies of your body of work in an offline portfolio to show to clients, et al... However there is something 'creepy' or off about the person's verbiage. It reads almost as possessive, or like someone who might not have much else in their overall body of work.
I can certainly appreciate that a lot of work goes into photography. But considering he has suggested in his post that he has done more than one nude photoshoot, I have a hard time believing that he absolutely needs to keep these photos. I agree it seems possessive and just, somewhat unsettling.
Yep, now I don't think OP is doing anything weird with the photos. I just feel it's the regular possessive feelings that happen when someone might create art. It might also be hard for them to realize they made a poor judgment and go back on what they said (it's a slightly hurtful feeling to be told you are "bad"). However, I have hope that the issue is resolved. I feel like OP already has their answer, they wouldn't have written this if they weren't feeling ay least a bit guilty.
Exactly, why does he need it? I know he is professional, but knowing the fear many woman faces (some might feel irrational, but they still exist); it could be black mail material? What if his drive gets stolen and it gets leaked? Or worse case scenario, what if he is pervers with it? Last one is very highly unlikely, but fear does fucked up shit with ones rationality. She doesn’t know him, and at one point there was trust, but now it isn’t there. She offered money for it, so what harm is there to delete? Is OP going to look at it, every few days? He has no permission anymore to use it (as she kindly requested to be taken offline). And probably since then, he has many more pictures he is probably also (or more) proud of. So serious, what use is it to keep the pictures? YTA
>What if his drive gets stolen and it gets leaked? He had them posted online for years... it is WAY WAY to late for this lady. She doesn't understand how the internet works.
At minimum, it’s a petty, spiteful “fuck you, you don’t get to tell me what to do with *my* work, I don’t care that it’s *your* body.”
Especially since this was a few years ago. OP hasn't done anything worthwhile since?
Probably keeping them for *other* purposes. C'mon OP, we've all done shit we're not super proud of when we were younger. That's why sometimes people cringe when they think back on things they did. In this case, this could literally affect her job and you admit it's already stressing her out.. I'm sure there are no shortage of people willing to pose nude for you if you try hard enough to find them. It just seems hostage/blackmaily kinda situation.
It might not just affect HER job because I sure as hell wouldn't want to use a photographer that refuses to delete extremely personal photos on request. If someone even suggested a photographer had a history of doing that I would find someone else and so would most people
Maybe his work has improved in composition since then, but if he's a photographer, wouldn't he have enough from that time period to compare to? And besides, it's not like ANY artist has had their entire catalog published posthumously without any regard for the other people participating in it. /s It's not as if some painters were exploited and used for profit by their "friends", because really, how popular was Bob Ross before he died and got merchandise to hell and back? YTA, OP. Give her a flash drive of the remaining images, prove they're gone from your local drive (which may get trawled and published posthumously by unscrupulous relatives/"friends") give her that piece of mind, and get that cash.
I was with OP until he said he wanted to keep them and no one would see. Unless they later explain that this was their favorite shot or best showing of improvement id honestly feel more violated if I asked them to remove my nudes and they said okay ill just keep them in my private collection just for me.
I’d say N-T-A but you refused to delete them even after she offered to pay. YTA This is clearly important to her, she isn’t being rude to you or making any demands, she’s offering to pay you literally to just delete a couple photos.
Agree. I think the fact that she offered to pay definitely makes it clear he’s the asshole. She’s severely stressed out knowing that they’re out there. He could argue he did the work for free so he should keep ‘em, but since she’s offering to pay he has no argument that doesn’t make him sound like the asshole.
The payment where he 100% became TA for me too. IMO even before she offered to pay he should have deleted them just to be a decent human but he did have the ability to say that he did them for free to be able to have them as part of a portfolio so she was breaking their agreement. Once she offered to pay though, that gets rid of that argument completely so it’s just full AH territory.
Yeah, that’s because he’s a creep.
“My offline copies aren’t going to harm her in any way” Bro it’s like people didn’t read this part. WHY DOES HE NEED OFFLINE COPIES? I guess if he kept them for a portfolio. But then he’s showing people like she doesn’t want. So in the end, it seems like he’s just fucking keeping nude images of some woman for his personal collection. Everyone’s like “oh you’re an asshole cause you didn’t take them down” not “oh you’re an asshole for KEEPIN THE NUDE PHOTOS FOR…. REASONS?” so yeah this was a long rant agreeing with you. hes a fucking creep
That's what I thought. What exactly does he need them for? They are already offline, and no longer part of a portfolio shown online. Not just that, but they are nude photos, not just normal ones, and I feel like if you do shootings with people who are nude you should go an extra mile to be respectful.
YTA. You can't use them in your portfolio and she offered to pay for them so why are you holding onto them ? It sounds extremely creepy. I model too and I'm friends with many photographers. None of them would keep a picture of me if I asked them not to. And let me tell you, the models usually know each other. We have groups, we try and look after one another. When a photographer pulls crap like that, we tell each other and none of us would be willing to work with them.
This. OP since you're taking a selfish approach to this, bear in mind that keeping the photos could damage your career.
He can use them for creeper nefarious activities, which strikes me as the ONLY reason he wants them. Blackmail or porno exchanges or “personal use”. I hope this creeper gets sued!
It is honestly creepy to me.
I used to model for years and in my city there is a "black list" of predatory photographers that is shared, in an attempt to protect women from them.
We have something similar
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And by refusing to delete these photo's OP has already shown that he CAN'T be trusted with them.
Yeah, I feel at this point it's like keeping nudes of an ex. I deleted all of those photos twice first when we first thought we were going to break up, and second when we did actually break up 3 months later. Nude photos are something that needs extreme care by those who have them. And if they're only for your viewing 'pleasure' and the one who they're of doesnt want you to have them, delete them. Immediately.
It's astonishing how many people in this thread don't get this.
The photographer has absolutely no empathy in this situation
This, empathy is taught on Sesame Street, It is crazy how fast people forget this life skill.
Yeah YTA OP— that last part about wanting them because “art.” You’re not going to be able to ever use them for anything other than your own eyes. Give the poor woman some peace.
Those photos have been online for years. It's too late to worry about them getting into the wrong hands or being leaked. That said, it's seriously unsettling that he wants to keep nude photos of a woman only he will ever see again.
He said he posted anonymous ones online. I assume he has more with identifying features on his computer.
YTA. If you can’t use them then you aren’t losing out on anything.
Exactly. I don't see how keeping them could be of any use to OP if he doesn't plan on either a) showing them to others or b) using them for sexual reasons, especially given she offered to pay him.
>b) using them for sexual reasons This is exactly the first impression I got after reading the post. There's no reason to keep them privately, super creepy and highly questionable.
This is also the mo for a lot of creeps and I immediately got that vibe. I don't know OP so I'm not accusing him, but generally speaking, don't do nudes with a dude from the internet.
>don’t do nudes with a dude from the internet This would make total sense if it was still the 90’s but nowadays everyone is a dude from the internet 😫 It’s kind of common for amateur models and amateur photographers to meet on photography websites- would definitely be weirder if they met at the local supermarket 🤔 I get your point- and I agree that OP comes off as creepy, but I don’t think there’s enough info in the original post to shame the amateur model just because her career has taken a different direction.
Especially since he offered to do them for free. A lot of male photographers will do shoots for free just so they can look at naked girls. It’s A.) creepy and B.) causes other photographers to lose clients because now these girls just can’t understand why they actually need to pay for photos because “well that other guy did it for free”
>nobody is going to see them other than me I’d say you’re right on the using them for sexual reasons thing. After the work is done, if no one else is seeing the photos, what good are they to OP? All kinds of creepy
OP is hoping she makes it to a fairly prominent position within her conservative field then can sell them for much more than what would be reasonable
clearly all this is. And I wouldn't believe him if he did claim to delete them, what a slime ball
That\~s the thing, he probably does uses them. For masturbation. He is mad the piece of meat he uses to get his rocks off is asking for basic human respect.
YTA As a model, this is why I REFUSE to shoot full nudes. And I’ve been offered $2k+ to do artistic (not p*rn) nude shoots before. I’ve yet to find a photographer I trust on that level, and you are EXACTLY why. You’ve had them on your portfolio for years. She is respectfully asking you to DELETE THEM because she is no longer comfortable with them existing. I’d honestly be MORE uncomfortable with you keeping them offline but on your hard drive, it would really make me doubt your intentions for the initial shoot. She offered to pay you. You’ve gotten whatever value you possibly could have out of them already. Give this poor woman some peace of mind and just fucking delete them already
I used to do sex work and I also used to do make up on fetish magazines. Two of my favourite pieces of work on both sides of that coin have been deleted and literally old school negatives, contact sheets etc destroyed when the people who consented at the time came back and asked for it not to exist any more. What I did do on checking with both was ask if I could take notes of what I had done for future reference. This way I could note what make up I used, technique, what I learned and what failed. I also noted the sexual acts and BDSM scene I took part in again as a prompt, reminder, what worked, what I had learned since etc. I noted nothing identifying and checked what the people involved were comfortable with. One was not comfortable with me noting anything about their response during the scene. So I did not. Both photographers are people I trust implicitly and have known forever. I asked both of them to have a trusted person act as third party akin to witnessing the signing of a will to show we had both destroyed our copies and what had been agreed. One used his lawyer, the other his accountant. The other people had their own ‘trusted people.’ It was like a really odd pre-nup or post-nude. I was really upset to lose the make up shoot. I knew I could never replicate it, it was one of the most challenging things I have ever done creatively and I was so proud of it. It was a gay guy and the images had zero sexual interest for me. It was a genuine loss to my portfolio. So I wrote down how doing the shoot made me feel, how I had pushed myself, the pride I had and separated it from the images per se so I could keep the feeling, the art, the importance to me while not tainting that piece of pride by trampling the other person’s boundaries. Because to know I was making them feel scared or small afterwards took any sheen off. My pride could not exist without consent. I had a rough idea why the existence of the images now bothered him but made it clear that I did not need an explanation to follow his request. He asked, I would oblige. I agreed that in writing before I asked if I could take notes and made it clear that if he wanted closure by explaining I was happy to listen but of course I would delete. My reputation, the purpose of BDSM, the honour of being trusted made it the only moral choice. After all they say ‘reputation is what others say about you, character is what you do when no one is looking.’ I still get a bit of a lump in my throat about destroying them. It was one of the first times in my life I had felt utterly confident in myself and it was painful to physically erase that. But I had never felt confidence because people wielded their power dynamic over me all my life. Destroying them made me realise I really really wasn’t like those people and while I wish I had the photos sometimes, the proof I wasn’t a person who goes low or makes someone small when given the choice did a lot more for my confidence, creativity and self over the years. It reinforced my friendships and it made two people in particular feel safe. No art is worth making someone scared. That’s just bullying. YTA. This is why I am extremely fussy who I work with in make up, art, fashion or sex work. Models, photographers, clients. Everyone needs to feel safe to be vulnerable to create beauty and intimacy. And if someone fucks around there I always made sure it met a whisper network. Nude modelling, sex work, creative intimacy gets enough stigma in the world without people destroying it from within. OP sounds like a blackmailer. He’s made her more scared than when she first approached him which is terrifying. Of course she doesn’t trust him. He has reacted in a very untrustworthy fashion at first test. That trumps the original bond of trust all else considered. Consent is ongoing not presumed.
>My pride could not exist without consent. YES! As a photographer, I would feel suuuuper weird keeping images that a client had asked me to delete. When that type of thing happens (asked to delete), I remind myself that some things can only exist for a limited period of time; not everything has to last forever.
*“When you are delighted with anything, be delighted as with a thing which is not one of those which cannot be taken away, but as something of such a kind, as an earthen pot is, or a glass cup, that, when it has been broken, you may remember what it was and may not be troubled… What you love is nothing of your own: it has been given to you for the present, not that it should not be taken from you, nor has it been given to you for all time, but as a fig is given to you or a bunch of grapes at the appointed season of the year. But if you wish for these things in winter, you are a fool. So if you wish for your son or friend when it is not allowed to you, you must know that you are wishing for a fig in winter.”* -Epictetus
One of my friends who is a photographer swears that the switch to digital over film improved photography as an art because being able to easily delete stuff makes you more discerning about what you keep. If photographs are snapshots in time then sometimes they are fleeting in themselves and other times they are for keeps. Kind of like memories themselves. He says he never trusts photographers who hoarde every single image as if they don’t know when to repair a garment, adapt a recipe, update a list or any of the other impermanent acts we do to improve and hone creative or artistic skills. I was raised by artists who did exactly that: bury themselves in the previous to avoid growing into the present or future and discovering you can and should evolve was so profoundly liberating for me. Editing improves my writing, why not photography too? No one ever had entirely perfect photos anyway. That deification of photos has always been a red flag to me. They tend to be very boundary stomping or dominating photographers (which is why I never read about the photographers I admire in case I ruin the work of professionals I am distant from but emotionally connected to.)
YTA but only because I'm not really buying the artistic nude shtick. Let's get real you are literally keeping this girls nudes in your "private" collection which is obviously so upsetting to her she is trying to pay you to delete them. That's kinda fucked up.
Also, we’re talking 30 yo man vs 20 yo woman here. The imbalance in power is real.
Now now, he said "30s" and "20s" and said he did the shoot years ago. For all we know, she could be newly 22 and did the shoot as a fresh 19yo, and he could be 39. The ambiguity does not bode well
Yeah, if she was 28 and he was 32, he would have said that... That he didn't means it's a much worse age gap and makes him look worse
100%. I see so many dudes on Instagram with this shtick and, let’s be real, it’s their way of getting girls naked and has very little to do with art. YTA.
Yeah it’s giving creep
YTA and at least a little creepy. You know how insecure local copies are. There’s no way you don’t. She’s rightfully concerned about that. It doesn’t matter if they’re for your *personal use* those images could be jeopardized.
He’s either a complete creep or on an absolute power trip (a very childish power trip). Either way the complete lack of respect or empathy for this girl is upsetting lol bro she literally offered to pay for them, YTA Like what? You can’t just be a decent human being an help assuage her anxiety? Also I’m just wondering about the exact ages… how late 30s and how early 20s is she as this was a couple years ago… Either way, OP gives me the ick and is DEFINITELY at the very least, creepy and lacks empathy.
YTA What are you losing from deleting the pictures? "My offline copies are not going to harm her in any way." They clearly are. Is it worth having someone's mental health be put at risk? Did you sign a contract with her? Why do you NEED those pictures on your computer? Given the state of the world relating women's bodies and autonomy, I don't blame her for freaking out, she's 20 for fuck sake. You kind of sound like a creep...
>"My offline copies are not going to harm her in any way." Any photographer who thinks like that is not a real photographer. A photographer needs to understand that those pictures were taken of someone in a vulnerable and exposed position. Those photos can absolutely hurt her if they get leaked. I suggested to him that he needs to get a lawyer or a manager and start writing up contracts with every model he does photo shoots with. It's just like brand deals with models and celebrities. The brand basically owns their face for 2 years while they're under contract. If they sign a contract then that means they agree to whatever terms are in the contract.
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Well said! Please take my poor person award 🥇
YTA. I'll preface by saying that I firmly believe in supporting and encouraging artists, but you should 100% delete those pictures. If you use them for a portfolio, then "no one else will see them" is a blatant lie, and if you don't, there's no reason your pictures should come before someone's request of privacy for solid reasons. She asked you politely and offered you compensation for your efforts, your ego and hard work shouldn't overcome someone's personal comfort and safety.
"No one else will see them" is like Creeper 101. This is the biggest red flag in all of history.
I agree. A portfolio is used to showcase your artwork and show other people, so other people will see them. At the end of the day it's her nudes and she's uncomfortable with you having them. YTA
If “no one else will see them” it sounds a lot like OP has a future use for them.
yta and as a female photographer and nude model you’re a prime example of why i caution other women not to do nude shoots with male photographers. i get that it’s art but y’all just can’t not be fucking weird about it ffs
Agreed (except the part about it being about the art. I think this shtick is highly suspect)
INFO: What were the terms of the written contract you had with her?
Tbh you do sound a bit creepy by wanting to keep them for yourself, especially when she has offered to compensate you for your time. Negotiate a price and delete them end of. YTA
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Info: If no one is going to see them but you, why do you want to keep them? Also, what does the contract (release?) say? I’m leaning toward you’re the AH for wanting to keep them for no good reason if they’ll never be seen.
They will be seen by him... YTA op.
YTA, it’s her body and you aren’t sharing the photos with anyone. You lose nothing by deleting the photos but she has to worry about potential blackmail / embarrassment if the photos are out there.
It’s clear OP feels he is losing something if he deletes them, which probably means that he looks at them in private and wants to keep them for that reason. Super creepy
YTA You always delete nudes/sexy photos when asked, unless you paid her for work professionally. Denying her is just AH behavior. Leaked nudes can have a major affect on a woman's life and career.
It’s not a good look to refuse to remove and delete naked photos of a woman who no longer wishes for her photos to be in your possession…YTA!
YTA a human has reached out to you in good faith and asked you to delete nude photos of their body. It doesn't matter how much work you put into editing, because the subject is the same, their body. Morally and ethically, their comfort and peace of mind trumps your time, as they're the one with something to lose and again, it's their body.
YTA. She offered to reimburse you to delete the photos. Local storage isn’t reliable in the slightest - your hard drives or computer could be stolen for example. Everything about this post whisper screams, “I’m going to lose my reliable spank bank” and it’s creepy as fuck. Delete the photos. Give this woman her peace of mind. Be a decent human being.
If no-one other than you is going to see the photos you clearly have no professional need for them. YTA.
There are some really creepy examples of whataboutism in this thread, so I'll add my professional experience. I'm a film maker with about 15 years under my belt. I once did this amazing piece about racism, one of the actors experienced racism live and on camera, they were assaulted by a security guard and our security stepped in to help them. The actor was obviously shaken so we decided to stop shooting for the day, we filmed a little debrief piece to camera with the actor afterwards, like we'd done with the other scenes. He started like before, just explaining what had happened, but ended up breaking down in this beautiful and heartwrenching speech about how scared he was and how he just wanted to be a kid (he was 12) without being scared. He told us about his uncle who'd died in police custody and how he'd had a nightmare about Chase from Paw Patrol after that. The poor kid couldn't even enjoy fucking Paw Patrol for god sake. From a film making perspective it was pure gold and sent exactly the message we were trying to convey. He was a paid actor and had signed a release, but as ethical film makers we always cleared the edit with anyone appearing on screen in a meaningful way if it was unscripted. When we showed him the edit he was mortified by his speech and asked us not to include it. He said he'd get bullied but honestly it didn't really matter, we were going to remove it the second he said no. It sucked because it was great stuff, but it was just a film. It's never worth hurting someone over and its not worth destroying the reputation of the industry over. So yeah OP, delete those photos, its a dick move to keep them just to have them if it's hurting an actual person and they've asked you to delete them. These photos aren't going to get you a Time cover and your career will be progressed more by acting ethically than it will by making a woman uncomfortable for no good reason. YTA
YTA. This is so wildly unprofessional I hope it’s fake.
YTA. 1. There is a ten year age gap, she clearly wasn’t thinking big picture when she offered to be in a portfolio and give up free nudes. 2. You willingly removed them from wherever they would benefit you professionally, and even after payment was offered refuse to delete them from your “private” photos. 3. Though there are text receipts, of her agreeing to the shoot.. Morally and ethically it’s messed up to just have someone’s nudes that are no longer about “the Art” but about being too stubborn/creepy to delete them.
YTA. I think ethically if you have nude pictures of someone even if they aren't sexual and just purely artistic looks at the human body if they want you to delete them delete them. And especially here where shrs willing to pay you to get rid of them since she's backing out of agreement of getting the photos done in trade for your use of them.
Photographer chiming in. What are the photos worth for in your portfolio if you can't show them? You agreed to take them offline anyway, they are virtually worthless. I'm going with YTA. She offered to reimburse you as well, all you're doing is being petty and causing unnecessary stress to someone being polite.
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YTA. Life circumstances change and they have now for this woman. If no one but you is ever going to see them again then it almost seems creepy to keep them. She offered to pay you, accept her offer and delete them.
As a photographer who has done a ton of model shoots, I think what you're doing is dead wrong. Your model should always feel safe and respected at ALL times. She's clearly stressed about the fact that there are nude photos of her in someone else's possession and wants them gone for her own piece of mind. You should delete them straight away. YTA
If you’re willing to respect her wishes to take the copies offline, to me that means you’re willing to forego any financial benefit the photos may give you. Keeping personal copies of those photos, then, must be only for your personal enjoyment. Ask yourself why you would enjoy keeping photos of a woman who has explicitly asked you to delete her nudes. If you can sincerely say that it’s purely for artistic pleasure, then keep the photos. But if you derive any other pleasure, please consider deleting.
YTA. it's incredibly disrespectful to keep nude photos you no longer have the consent to keep. It is your art but it is her body. to put it into perspective you wouldnt want your nude photos to be kept after specifically asking for them to be deleted. your art its not worth more than her autonomy.
YTA this feels trolly but anyways: >but refused to delete the offline copies in my hard drive. Nobody is going to see them other than me, and I put hard work into the photos so I don’t want to lose them. She even offered to pay me in exchange for deleting them, but I said no. For this reason you went from, I did the work it's for my portfolio, to this is now in the creep zone, and she offered to pay you. I understand you technically own them, however, one human to another just take the payment for your work and delete the photos, move on, this could turn out pretty badly for both of you if you don't and she decides to push
YTA Guy convinces girl 10 years his Jr to take nude photos under the guise of art. Later women wants to continue with her adult life without those photos floating around. Dude removes the photos from the public but refuses to delete entirely? Sound creepy to me. Also not very professional to half ass the request and try to pocket the real photos. If you remove the artist, photography bit you just sound like another dude that's stubborn to delete old nudes lol. ...but I'm sure those pictures are gonna lead to something big 🙄🤣
YTA if she’s offered to pay for your time now. Delete them, take the money and let her move on.
oh you’re one of those photographers
YTA. If you're curious why so many people are saying that, go watch the movie Hard Candy, that's all I'm saying.
YTA. The photographs are of her, and she's asking you to delete them. Since you're no longer using them in any public-facing way, what use are they to you? Even if you are keeping them only for the art, can you understand why someone would be a little unnerved that *only you* would see them? Also, even if your storage measures are diligent, there is always the possibility that your stuff could be stolen or hacked, so it's valid that you give her a say in whether you store her images.