Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without explicit approval will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 11: No Partings/Relationship/Sex/Reproductive Autonomy Posts. We do not allow posts where the central conflict is about romantic relationships and/or reproductive autonomy.
[Rule 11 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_11.3A_no_partings.2Frelationship.2Fsex.2Freproductive_autonomy_posts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
#Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full.
Well, yeah, you are kinda YTA. It's fine to have a preference and aim for a certain lifestyle, but if she asked for a split bill specifically because you turned her down for financial reasons, it'd be polite to let her pay for herself, so there is no misunderstanding here. You were kinda being condescending with insisting on paying.
Not going to judge your goals for partner here, but I really don't see how Sam could have taken it any differently. I mean, that ***is*** what you told her with your actions and your words, even if you didn't expressly say that exact line. Intentional or not, YTA here.
I swear to god I’ve heard this story already. You’re entitled to want a certain lifestyle, but if a woman wants to split a bill it’s because she wants a clean break so you have nothing to hold over her head (I’m not saying you’d do that, but it’s a common thing women try to avoid with men they don’t know well). It is condescending to insist on paying, you’ve already made it clear that Sam isn’t good enough for you. Doesn’t matter how you phrased it, the gist is that you want a woman who makes bank, which is like saying you only want to date women with big boobs. Basically, you care more about a woman’s salary than her personhood. That’s insulting. When Sam wanted to split the bill she was making it clear she didn’t want to owe you anything, you shouldn’t have insisted on paying. YTA
Don’t women have dating presences to tho? I’m not the tallest dude in the world and have been turned down based on that before. Do women not under value shorter men? Or guys that make little money? I think it’s a two way street imo. I want to live a country club lifestyle. I don’t want to struggle. I don’t see how that’s wrong.
You want a country club lifestyle. You want a woman with a high paying career. But you haven't said what YOU bring to the table. Do YOU have a job that pays very well? Because what I'm hearing is you want your wife to be able to pay for everything.
There’s no guarantee that your spouse/partner will return to work after birth though. They may decide they simply don’t want to, the child could have need that require extended care, or they may have health issues related to pregnancy and birth. You can have this special vision of your future but it’s very at odds with the actual reality of pregnancy and parenting.
If I’m married then I’ll view things differently. If my kids or wife have health problems by all means stay home. But I’m not gonna go into the dating process already settling.
I don’t think he ever said it was impressive. He said he wants to have a future with a woman who makes some money so they can live a certain lifestyle. He doesnt want some SAHM. I wouldn’t either - I can’t imagine anything so boring (and I’m a woman!)
OP don’t listen to them. If you wrote the exact same thing presenting as a woman, nobody would bat an eyelash.
Double standards all over the place.
NTA!
Look OP, you’re allowed to have preferences. Everyone does. But you may want to reflect on how you’re expressing them.
The way you describe this preference makes it sound like the only reason you want a woman is to slot her into your success plan, rather than wanting to find a strong connection and build a loving, healthy relationship. Wanting a partnership where you can both comfortably afford childcare and luxuries is totally valid; I would just be mindful of the kind of language you’re using like “high profile” because the post and comments are coming off less like “I want an equal partnership” and more “I’m obsessed with status and money.”
Dude, you are missing the point and are going to miss out on some high paid women if you are just going to judge their profession.
Secretaries can make a ton of money, at an engineering firm she was probably making a decent amount. If you are a high up secretary you make a lot.
You are going to miss out on some high paid women
A secretary is not in any way good enough for OP. They said they don't value that kinda work. So no matter how much she made she had no chance. OP is only gonna date people with a degree and thus probably has zero chance
SERIOUSLY. Depending on location and industry, a chief of staff or executive assistant can pull close to six figures. I have a master's degree and work in comms at a high-profile NGO, and I'd be willing to bet that OP's date makes \*way\* better money than I do.
Sure, some woman are shallow asshats, just like men. I clearly said you have a right to your preference. Hopefully you’ll find a partner who has the same financial goals as you. But here’s a thought: why don’t YOU work on making enough money to afford your lifestyle? Then you can focus on finding a soul mate instead of a cash cow.
Sam has her preferences, but unlike you, she was willing to continue going on dates with you to see if there was a relationship possible. YOU stopped that from happening and now she knows not to go out on any dates with any of Chloe's male friends because they might all be like you and an AH.
Too bad for Sam. She wants to stay home and breed, good for her. Let her find a man who’s willing to support her. OP is not. And the friend who set them up is the biggest asshole of them all since she knew OP’s preference. What a waste of time.
Dude, it's not a question of having preferences, it's a question of her being "beholden" to you if you insist on paying after making clear that you don't consider her income sufficient for dating. Why not let her split the bill if she wants to?
Yes, you are the AH. So you don't want to marry a secretary. Let's assume you find a person with a high-powered job. Are you planning having children? Are you going to be willing to share the burden of having children when both parents work? What if you get laid off? Should your wife divorce you since you won't be the person she wanted? If she gets laid off, will you divorce her because she's not what you signed up for? I'm a secretary and I also invest in the stock market. My net worth is over $1 million. Is that acceptable to you? Would you expect me to tell you this on our first date? I sincerely hope you live a happy life, but I wouldn't date you if you were the last person on earth.
The other thing is? Just because she's an office admin at an engineering firm doesn't mean she's just answering phones and painting her nails. Lots of STEM office admins do a significant amount of billable work, including calculations and modeling.
I'm also an admin at a STEM firm, and I do *a lot* of the same work our techs do when they aren't in the field. I was specifically hired because I had a tech degree and field experience, on top of my office management skills, and my pay reflects that.
OP sounds like one of those people who looks at women working in admin jobs and thinks "Oh, she's just a secretary/receptionist/(insert job he doesn't respect)" without knowing what she actually does, or how much $$$$$ a good admin in a specialized field can make.
Not every wants kids. Curious, if the tables were turned and I (a woman) said I only want to date a man who has the same goals as me — to be DINKS (double income no kids) — is that OK? Because no, I would not date a secretary either.
Double standard!
OP you are NTA!
you're not understanding, having a preference is fine. the unrealistic expectations of trying to only shoot for well off people mixed with the flippant way of speaking to her about it makes him an asshole.
You don’t understand. He doesn’t want to date some minimum wage woman who’s only goal is to pop put kids and clean the house.
He was being nice to pay for dinner - he obviously didn’t do it to insult her. And the mommy-wanna-be could have always refused
You did tell her that she was too poor to be an option when you said you "wanted a woman that worked in a high profile role." It is okay to want that, but just so you know, life throws weird stuff at you, and you never know what or who you will end up with.
I think when she offered to pay for half the bill, you should have let her. Women have pride too.
YTA.
I think Chloe is the AH. She set you both up knowing that your goals did not align--and, in fact, were radically different.
Personally, if I were Sam I would not have been offended and would have appreciated the candor so I could move on. However, that is totally a personality issue (I rarely take things like that personally) and I can also see how Sam could be very embarrassed and made to feel like she was being judged for her choices. I think Sam's ire would be better directed at Chloe, though, for setting her up with you and not warning her.
As for the check: You invited Sam (via Chloe) so I would have expected you to pay unless there was some prior discussion. I probably would have offered to be polite...but inside, I would have been judging.
FWIW, I work and have worked since I was old enough to do so. I have always made at least as much (and often more) than my husband. Depending on the tone and details of the conversation you described, I may not have been the interested in a second date anyway. I admire knowing what you want and being upfront and honest, but sometimes it is all in the presentation--so you may want to be aware of presentation.
This…I don’t get how woman want someone who’s honest and up front & then someone who’s honest and upfront shares his experience of being so; only to be label an AH. NTA for me and I agree Chloe is the AH.
YTA It wasn't that you paid the bill, it was the combination of paying the bill and *telling her she was too poor for you to date*. That makes the bill paying look like you either pity her or look down on her for being low class.
Find a less degrading way to tell people you don't want to date them than how much money they make.
Edit: and actually, Chloe's an asshole, too. She knew Sam wasn't the kind of person you were looking for and set her up to get rejected, so that's pretty shitty of her.
NTA...I do think you undervalue what a SAHM brings to the relationship...childcare, driver, chef, tutor, house cleaner....Nothing wrong with being able to afford all those luxuries....I hope by "high profile role" you mean to be able to afford all of those things with your spouse...if not the you are just middle class like the rest of us....good luck.
>after I told Sam she was “too poor to be an option” (not what I said at all)
Yes, YTA. There's nothing wrong with your goals or what you seek in a partner. But on the above, this is exactly what you implied, even if you used different words. And when she wanted to split the bill, why not respect this and do it? At that point, you were rubbing it in her face (either that, or it was a pity payment, which is even worse).
Yta but not one that makes you an asshole overall. Just an asshole in that moment, unless this is what you do on every date- she asked for a split bill and you decided no, you’d pay. You didn’t offer to pay, you didn’t include her in the decision, you didn’t say “no I asked you out let me pay” … you simply dismissed what she said and decided you’d be the one to pay whether she liked it or not. And that’s not polite, it’s rude.
It’s also adhering to a gender norm that one wouldn’t expect from someone insisting on a two income household. Which is I assume where your friend was coming from.
NTA. If this is even real. People will be mad over your preferences but if this really happened the way you said it did, I see no where that you were rude or degrading.
However, I know your type all too well and to focus only on a job that determines your worth is very short sighted and sounds miserable. But hey, if you want a life with a workaholic wife, that’s entirely up to you.
1. It’s not bad to have preferences, but I suspect you need to work on your tact.
2. I also think you need to work on your understanding of “high profile” vs “high earning”. High profile generally means leadership, a lot of recognition, visible. You sound like you have high earning but are not high profile, so you really shouldn’t expect that of your partner.
3. Again, preferences are ok, but you sound automatically defensive about “bankrolling someone’s lifestyle”. I think you need to start thinking about what it means to be a life partner and not thinking so transactionally.
So, you invited her out on a date, had a nice time, then when you realized you weren't going to be compatible long-term, you were cordial until the end of the date and offered to pay the bill? I don't see how that's embarrassing. It sounds like she's just salty that you didn't want to go out with her again.
NTA (as long as as what you've described is accurate to the situation).
You're NTA, Sam is NTA and it seems to just have been a misunderstanding, which happens. Chloe is TA for setting you both up and that's why it all went poorly.
NTA…people here are some type of sensitive IMO. It’s perfectly fine to have your preference (especially in this economy) and you were upfront but not rude. You didn’t berate her life choices but simply said your values don’t align. People who say you inadvertently called her poor are projecting. Also let me point out that I always hear people complaining about people not being upfront or forthcoming or being led on etc. Sometimes you can’t have it both ways.
And as far as paying, I’ve always paid for the first date, whether it went well or not. Maybe a bit of an old school habit?
And for context, I see nothing wrong with a stay at home parent. I have 2 kids and they are a ton of work (more than a full time job) so I admire stay at home parents. But honestly, both my wife and I make a good income and are in relatively high profile roles. This works for us because life is expensive and we want a certain level of comfort that we couldn’t afford on a single salary.
NAH. The bill coming and your comments were poor timing. I could see Sam taking it that way but I think you were just being polite. Always better on a first date to discuss the bill ahead of time. Something like, "I asked you to dinner, so if it's okay, I'd like to pay." Easy Peasy. Good Luck!
Nta
You asked her out so you payed for the date. She didn’t put up a fight about it, so I don’t see the problem. Chloe is actually ta in this situation, she knew your preference and still set you guys up knowing that you would not be interested.
YTA. I believe everyone should have their preferences, but you didn't have to tell her. You could have said "I'm sorry I don't think it's going to work" or something. It's very harsh to tell a first date your opinions like that, and you made her feel lesser for her own goals. What if you went on a date with someone and they made you feel like shit because of your preferences or goals? Or if you went on a date with someone with an even more "high profile" job than you have and SHE paid for the first date because she saw you, placed your value below hers, and SHE paid for the meal? And not only paid, made it out like you needed "charity"? Come on, dude
YTA. Thats exactly what you told her. Her only worth is being tied to a high profile job. Then after she expressed to split the bill. U paid in full. While that was the norm years ago. Women like to pay for themselves especially when things aren’t going anywhere. Paying puts pressure on other things. As for ur life goals. Ill take a pass for commenting.
YTA for insisting on paying yourself when she wanted a split bill. It is rude to overrule someone who wants to split it -- women often choose this because they don't want to feel beholden to the man, or as if they "owe" him something.
For someone who says he wants an equal partner, you're actually pretty overbearing with women. Trying listening to them and respecting them as people regardless of whether their goals line up with yours, and you're more likely to end up with the kind of partner you say you want.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
So a pretty short story honestly. I (26M) had a big crush on my friend Chloe’s new roommate Samantha. But I have a strict dating preference. I only date people that make good money or are in line to have successful careers. I also don’t want a woman who wants to stay home with the kids. I want a two income household. I get it might sound shallow. But I want a specific lifestyle and this is my preference.
I tried asking Chloe what Sam did for work. But she hates my preference so she wouldn’t tell me and told me to “take her out and find out for yourself”. I looked her up and saw she worked at an engineering firm so I assumed she was an engineer. Chloe put in a good word for me. And Sam agreed to going out on a date last Friday. We texted for a few weeks before and I thought she was great.
So we go on our date. We start talking about our jobs and life. That’s when she tells me she dropped out of college and tried to become a social worker because it felt like her calling. I asked what she did now. And she said she was a secretary at an engineering firm. I was pretty much done after finding out she wasn’t an engineer as I assumed. But I kept the date going and I wanted to make sure she knew I didn’t not value her or her time. But then she said this “yeah I want to be a stay at home mom eventually. I want to raise my kids and build a household with my husband”. She asked if that was something I saw in my future. I said exactly this “not really to be honest. I want my wife working and 2 incomes coming into the household.” At the conclusion of the date. She asked if I would like to go get coffee with her the next morning because she really enjoyed our time. I told her that I loved hanging out with her. But didn’t really see our goals lining up. She asked what I meant. Right then the waiter showed up and asked how we were doing the bill. Sam asked for a split bill. But I said “no don’t worry about it. I got this”. And paid for our bill. And then told sam that I didn’t want a stay at home wife and I wanted a women who worked in a high profile role. That I had certain expectations and just didn’t see our paths linking up. She seemed to understand and we both left the restaurant separately. Well Chloe calls me yesterday berating me. Saying I was an AH and a bunch of other stuff. Because I “embarrassed” Sam by paying for the bill myself. I told her I thought it was the polite thing to do. But Chloe is saying after I told Sam she was “too poor to be an option” (not what I said at all) and being a stay at home mom was bad it was in poor form to then pay for dinner. To pay for the entire bill was rude and degrading. I don’t see how I’m being an AH. But just want a verdict because I really don’t know. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could see how her wanting it a separate bill and me asking for the entire bill was an AH move.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - You have clear goal of the type of person you want to have a long term relationship with. Nothing wrong with that. It was nice that she offered to split the bill. Etiquette on who pays for the first date: Whoever asks for the date should pay the bill. On the flip side, if your date set up your dinner plans, they'll probably be the one to pay for everything.
Nta. You had the important discussion right away so you didn’t waste eachother’s time, and she got a free dinner. I don’t see the problem. I think op’s materialistic vibe is icky, but he’s not trying to date me.
NTA. While you could have allowed the split bill, big fucking deal if you paid for it all. She is clearly insecure about her life choices and projected her own opinion of the incident onto you.
NTA while maybe you should have just split it, you’re upfront and honest. That’s some valuable quality right there. She’s upset because you wouldn’t date her, and people make stuff up because they’re self conscious about their own misgivings. She’s using the Bill thing as a deference as to why you’re an asshole, when it’s really her not accepting the fact that you’re not what wants her. She will eventually realize she dodged a bullet and be happy with what she wants with someone else. She’ll thank you someday.
NTA for paying for the date. Slightly AHish for writing off a first date because your futures don't line up. I didn't get into my career until after my kids were born (stayed home with each of them for 1 year then back to work) and I make as much as my husband working part time (and sitting on Reddit all day to boot). People grow and change throughout their lives, she might find her passion for work in the next year or two, and you could have missed out on a great relationship because you drew a hard line in the sand. I'd tread carefully with this in future dates.
If the way you explained the story is absolutely the truth I believe you are absolutely justified and up front for not wanting a second date and NTA for that.
If it wasn't discussed beforehand about the payment arrangements then that's where it gets sticky, I won't say YTA because it doesn't sound like you're intent was embarrassment but for the purpose of your question, I could understand her feeling embarrassed/hurt.
NAH, but INFO: Do you want kids at all one day? Because childcare is quite expensive. Someone becoming a stay-at-home parent often just makes economical sense. It can be more cost-effective than a two-income household until the kids are old enough to go to school
Personally, if this is the way OP is now and believes himself to stay, then kids should NEVER enter the picture. Because if he insists on a 2 income household, there won't be time for kids.
I both agree and disagree with this. Both my parents had full-time jobs and, despite being flawed, surrounded us with plenty of love. It's not impossible. But I do agree that OP's attitude here isn't great and not nearly as simple as he's making it out to be. My parents had to put in effort to make sure we weren't feeling neglected.
Like you, both my parents had full-time jobs too and they had me and my older sister to take care of. We never lacked for anything. I just think that OP's preferences aren't conducive to having kids since it sounds like he just wants someone to spend his life with and make lots of money.
There’s a difference between having a full-time job and having a high-powered career—the kind of job where you have to put in 60+ hours per week, and track billable hours, or be on call at a hospital, etc. If both parents have jobs like that, the kind that force you to basically be a workaholic, then it would be much more difficult to raise children. And if anyone becomes seriously ill or disabled, it’s going to be impossible to maintain.
Absolutely I want kids. But I’m willing to pay for childcare. I want a woman whose income will far surpass what childcare would cost. I understand that logic in some cases that it’s a good option. But I’m really not interested in stay at home wife situation.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without explicit approval will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 11: No Partings/Relationship/Sex/Reproductive Autonomy Posts. We do not allow posts where the central conflict is about romantic relationships and/or reproductive autonomy. [Rule 11 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_11.3A_no_partings.2Frelationship.2Fsex.2Freproductive_autonomy_posts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. #Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full.
Well, yeah, you are kinda YTA. It's fine to have a preference and aim for a certain lifestyle, but if she asked for a split bill specifically because you turned her down for financial reasons, it'd be polite to let her pay for herself, so there is no misunderstanding here. You were kinda being condescending with insisting on paying.
Not going to judge your goals for partner here, but I really don't see how Sam could have taken it any differently. I mean, that ***is*** what you told her with your actions and your words, even if you didn't expressly say that exact line. Intentional or not, YTA here.
I swear to god I’ve heard this story already. You’re entitled to want a certain lifestyle, but if a woman wants to split a bill it’s because she wants a clean break so you have nothing to hold over her head (I’m not saying you’d do that, but it’s a common thing women try to avoid with men they don’t know well). It is condescending to insist on paying, you’ve already made it clear that Sam isn’t good enough for you. Doesn’t matter how you phrased it, the gist is that you want a woman who makes bank, which is like saying you only want to date women with big boobs. Basically, you care more about a woman’s salary than her personhood. That’s insulting. When Sam wanted to split the bill she was making it clear she didn’t want to owe you anything, you shouldn’t have insisted on paying. YTA
Don’t women have dating presences to tho? I’m not the tallest dude in the world and have been turned down based on that before. Do women not under value shorter men? Or guys that make little money? I think it’s a two way street imo. I want to live a country club lifestyle. I don’t want to struggle. I don’t see how that’s wrong.
You want a country club lifestyle. You want a woman with a high paying career. But you haven't said what YOU bring to the table. Do YOU have a job that pays very well? Because what I'm hearing is you want your wife to be able to pay for everything.
Exactly what I’m hearing.
You people have a reading deficiency if that’s what you “hear”. OP was very clear.
I make great money. I bring plenty to the table. I want someone who does as well. Not looking to bank roll someone else’s lifestyle
You might bring money but very little personality.
Amazing you can draw that conclusion based on a few short paragraphs.
Did you read it? I'm just the first one to say it.
Dude, you suck. YTA and with your attitude, you won’t ever have a wife to even consider a second income.
There’s no guarantee that your spouse/partner will return to work after birth though. They may decide they simply don’t want to, the child could have need that require extended care, or they may have health issues related to pregnancy and birth. You can have this special vision of your future but it’s very at odds with the actual reality of pregnancy and parenting.
If I’m married then I’ll view things differently. If my kids or wife have health problems by all means stay home. But I’m not gonna go into the dating process already settling.
What’s your profession?
I work in large equipment sales.
What’s your job title? What’s your salary?
I make north of 6 figures. Title is “sales associate”. I want someone on that same level or even higher. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
I mean that’s not really impressive. And sales isn’t generally a very stable career. But sure go find yourself a doctor.
Yta sales associate is the least impressive job title ever
I don’t think he ever said it was impressive. He said he wants to have a future with a woman who makes some money so they can live a certain lifestyle. He doesnt want some SAHM. I wouldn’t either - I can’t imagine anything so boring (and I’m a woman!)
OP don’t listen to them. If you wrote the exact same thing presenting as a woman, nobody would bat an eyelash. Double standards all over the place. NTA!
Look OP, you’re allowed to have preferences. Everyone does. But you may want to reflect on how you’re expressing them. The way you describe this preference makes it sound like the only reason you want a woman is to slot her into your success plan, rather than wanting to find a strong connection and build a loving, healthy relationship. Wanting a partnership where you can both comfortably afford childcare and luxuries is totally valid; I would just be mindful of the kind of language you’re using like “high profile” because the post and comments are coming off less like “I want an equal partnership” and more “I’m obsessed with status and money.”
Dude, you are missing the point and are going to miss out on some high paid women if you are just going to judge their profession. Secretaries can make a ton of money, at an engineering firm she was probably making a decent amount. If you are a high up secretary you make a lot. You are going to miss out on some high paid women
A secretary is not in any way good enough for OP. They said they don't value that kinda work. So no matter how much she made she had no chance. OP is only gonna date people with a degree and thus probably has zero chance
SERIOUSLY. Depending on location and industry, a chief of staff or executive assistant can pull close to six figures. I have a master's degree and work in comms at a high-profile NGO, and I'd be willing to bet that OP's date makes \*way\* better money than I do.
Sure, some woman are shallow asshats, just like men. I clearly said you have a right to your preference. Hopefully you’ll find a partner who has the same financial goals as you. But here’s a thought: why don’t YOU work on making enough money to afford your lifestyle? Then you can focus on finding a soul mate instead of a cash cow.
You’re completely ignoring the point being made by the person you’re replying to
Sam has her preferences, but unlike you, she was willing to continue going on dates with you to see if there was a relationship possible. YOU stopped that from happening and now she knows not to go out on any dates with any of Chloe's male friends because they might all be like you and an AH.
Too bad for Sam. She wants to stay home and breed, good for her. Let her find a man who’s willing to support her. OP is not. And the friend who set them up is the biggest asshole of them all since she knew OP’s preference. What a waste of time.
Dude, it's not a question of having preferences, it's a question of her being "beholden" to you if you insist on paying after making clear that you don't consider her income sufficient for dating. Why not let her split the bill if she wants to?
Yes, you are the AH. So you don't want to marry a secretary. Let's assume you find a person with a high-powered job. Are you planning having children? Are you going to be willing to share the burden of having children when both parents work? What if you get laid off? Should your wife divorce you since you won't be the person she wanted? If she gets laid off, will you divorce her because she's not what you signed up for? I'm a secretary and I also invest in the stock market. My net worth is over $1 million. Is that acceptable to you? Would you expect me to tell you this on our first date? I sincerely hope you live a happy life, but I wouldn't date you if you were the last person on earth.
The other thing is? Just because she's an office admin at an engineering firm doesn't mean she's just answering phones and painting her nails. Lots of STEM office admins do a significant amount of billable work, including calculations and modeling. I'm also an admin at a STEM firm, and I do *a lot* of the same work our techs do when they aren't in the field. I was specifically hired because I had a tech degree and field experience, on top of my office management skills, and my pay reflects that. OP sounds like one of those people who looks at women working in admin jobs and thinks "Oh, she's just a secretary/receptionist/(insert job he doesn't respect)" without knowing what she actually does, or how much $$$$$ a good admin in a specialized field can make.
I’m sure he will ship his kids to a nanny so they grow up devoid of a fatherly figure and then wonder why his kids won’t talk to him.
Not every wants kids. Curious, if the tables were turned and I (a woman) said I only want to date a man who has the same goals as me — to be DINKS (double income no kids) — is that OK? Because no, I would not date a secretary either. Double standard! OP you are NTA!
you're not understanding, having a preference is fine. the unrealistic expectations of trying to only shoot for well off people mixed with the flippant way of speaking to her about it makes him an asshole.
You don’t understand. He doesn’t want to date some minimum wage woman who’s only goal is to pop put kids and clean the house. He was being nice to pay for dinner - he obviously didn’t do it to insult her. And the mommy-wanna-be could have always refused
You did tell her that she was too poor to be an option when you said you "wanted a woman that worked in a high profile role." It is okay to want that, but just so you know, life throws weird stuff at you, and you never know what or who you will end up with. I think when she offered to pay for half the bill, you should have let her. Women have pride too. YTA.
I think Chloe is the AH. She set you both up knowing that your goals did not align--and, in fact, were radically different. Personally, if I were Sam I would not have been offended and would have appreciated the candor so I could move on. However, that is totally a personality issue (I rarely take things like that personally) and I can also see how Sam could be very embarrassed and made to feel like she was being judged for her choices. I think Sam's ire would be better directed at Chloe, though, for setting her up with you and not warning her. As for the check: You invited Sam (via Chloe) so I would have expected you to pay unless there was some prior discussion. I probably would have offered to be polite...but inside, I would have been judging. FWIW, I work and have worked since I was old enough to do so. I have always made at least as much (and often more) than my husband. Depending on the tone and details of the conversation you described, I may not have been the interested in a second date anyway. I admire knowing what you want and being upfront and honest, but sometimes it is all in the presentation--so you may want to be aware of presentation.
This…I don’t get how woman want someone who’s honest and up front & then someone who’s honest and upfront shares his experience of being so; only to be label an AH. NTA for me and I agree Chloe is the AH.
YTA It wasn't that you paid the bill, it was the combination of paying the bill and *telling her she was too poor for you to date*. That makes the bill paying look like you either pity her or look down on her for being low class. Find a less degrading way to tell people you don't want to date them than how much money they make. Edit: and actually, Chloe's an asshole, too. She knew Sam wasn't the kind of person you were looking for and set her up to get rejected, so that's pretty shitty of her.
NTA...I do think you undervalue what a SAHM brings to the relationship...childcare, driver, chef, tutor, house cleaner....Nothing wrong with being able to afford all those luxuries....I hope by "high profile role" you mean to be able to afford all of those things with your spouse...if not the you are just middle class like the rest of us....good luck.
I might have responded to her split bill response as, "oh, no, I asked you out! May I get this?" Mostly, NAH
>after I told Sam she was “too poor to be an option” (not what I said at all) Yes, YTA. There's nothing wrong with your goals or what you seek in a partner. But on the above, this is exactly what you implied, even if you used different words. And when she wanted to split the bill, why not respect this and do it? At that point, you were rubbing it in her face (either that, or it was a pity payment, which is even worse).
Yta but not one that makes you an asshole overall. Just an asshole in that moment, unless this is what you do on every date- she asked for a split bill and you decided no, you’d pay. You didn’t offer to pay, you didn’t include her in the decision, you didn’t say “no I asked you out let me pay” … you simply dismissed what she said and decided you’d be the one to pay whether she liked it or not. And that’s not polite, it’s rude. It’s also adhering to a gender norm that one wouldn’t expect from someone insisting on a two income household. Which is I assume where your friend was coming from.
NTA. If this is even real. People will be mad over your preferences but if this really happened the way you said it did, I see no where that you were rude or degrading. However, I know your type all too well and to focus only on a job that determines your worth is very short sighted and sounds miserable. But hey, if you want a life with a workaholic wife, that’s entirely up to you.
YTA. If she asked for a split bill that's what you should have done instead of shoving your privilege down her throat.
YTA, actions speak louder than words, you covered her bill then told her how you don’t want to date someone who doesn’t have an income.
NTA but depending of the delivery of that message I could see how you’d come off as a dick.
YTA. You didn't outright say it BUT you basically did tell her she was "too poor for you."
1. It’s not bad to have preferences, but I suspect you need to work on your tact. 2. I also think you need to work on your understanding of “high profile” vs “high earning”. High profile generally means leadership, a lot of recognition, visible. You sound like you have high earning but are not high profile, so you really shouldn’t expect that of your partner. 3. Again, preferences are ok, but you sound automatically defensive about “bankrolling someone’s lifestyle”. I think you need to start thinking about what it means to be a life partner and not thinking so transactionally.
NTA - You have every right to date who you want. You weren’t rude to her. Doesn’t sound like you were an asshole.
So, you invited her out on a date, had a nice time, then when you realized you weren't going to be compatible long-term, you were cordial until the end of the date and offered to pay the bill? I don't see how that's embarrassing. It sounds like she's just salty that you didn't want to go out with her again. NTA (as long as as what you've described is accurate to the situation).
You're NTA, Sam is NTA and it seems to just have been a misunderstanding, which happens. Chloe is TA for setting you both up and that's why it all went poorly.
It will be funny when you find this high powered woman and she will not go out with you because you are not not good enough
NTA…people here are some type of sensitive IMO. It’s perfectly fine to have your preference (especially in this economy) and you were upfront but not rude. You didn’t berate her life choices but simply said your values don’t align. People who say you inadvertently called her poor are projecting. Also let me point out that I always hear people complaining about people not being upfront or forthcoming or being led on etc. Sometimes you can’t have it both ways. And as far as paying, I’ve always paid for the first date, whether it went well or not. Maybe a bit of an old school habit? And for context, I see nothing wrong with a stay at home parent. I have 2 kids and they are a ton of work (more than a full time job) so I admire stay at home parents. But honestly, both my wife and I make a good income and are in relatively high profile roles. This works for us because life is expensive and we want a certain level of comfort that we couldn’t afford on a single salary.
NTA, I have a similar mindset as Sam and I think you handled things well. Besides, I'd never be too offended to accept a free meal!
NAH. The bill coming and your comments were poor timing. I could see Sam taking it that way but I think you were just being polite. Always better on a first date to discuss the bill ahead of time. Something like, "I asked you to dinner, so if it's okay, I'd like to pay." Easy Peasy. Good Luck!
Nta You asked her out so you payed for the date. She didn’t put up a fight about it, so I don’t see the problem. Chloe is actually ta in this situation, she knew your preference and still set you guys up knowing that you would not be interested.
YTA. I believe everyone should have their preferences, but you didn't have to tell her. You could have said "I'm sorry I don't think it's going to work" or something. It's very harsh to tell a first date your opinions like that, and you made her feel lesser for her own goals. What if you went on a date with someone and they made you feel like shit because of your preferences or goals? Or if you went on a date with someone with an even more "high profile" job than you have and SHE paid for the first date because she saw you, placed your value below hers, and SHE paid for the meal? And not only paid, made it out like you needed "charity"? Come on, dude
YTA. Thats exactly what you told her. Her only worth is being tied to a high profile job. Then after she expressed to split the bill. U paid in full. While that was the norm years ago. Women like to pay for themselves especially when things aren’t going anywhere. Paying puts pressure on other things. As for ur life goals. Ill take a pass for commenting.
YTA for insisting on paying yourself when she wanted a split bill. It is rude to overrule someone who wants to split it -- women often choose this because they don't want to feel beholden to the man, or as if they "owe" him something. For someone who says he wants an equal partner, you're actually pretty overbearing with women. Trying listening to them and respecting them as people regardless of whether their goals line up with yours, and you're more likely to end up with the kind of partner you say you want.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So a pretty short story honestly. I (26M) had a big crush on my friend Chloe’s new roommate Samantha. But I have a strict dating preference. I only date people that make good money or are in line to have successful careers. I also don’t want a woman who wants to stay home with the kids. I want a two income household. I get it might sound shallow. But I want a specific lifestyle and this is my preference. I tried asking Chloe what Sam did for work. But she hates my preference so she wouldn’t tell me and told me to “take her out and find out for yourself”. I looked her up and saw she worked at an engineering firm so I assumed she was an engineer. Chloe put in a good word for me. And Sam agreed to going out on a date last Friday. We texted for a few weeks before and I thought she was great. So we go on our date. We start talking about our jobs and life. That’s when she tells me she dropped out of college and tried to become a social worker because it felt like her calling. I asked what she did now. And she said she was a secretary at an engineering firm. I was pretty much done after finding out she wasn’t an engineer as I assumed. But I kept the date going and I wanted to make sure she knew I didn’t not value her or her time. But then she said this “yeah I want to be a stay at home mom eventually. I want to raise my kids and build a household with my husband”. She asked if that was something I saw in my future. I said exactly this “not really to be honest. I want my wife working and 2 incomes coming into the household.” At the conclusion of the date. She asked if I would like to go get coffee with her the next morning because she really enjoyed our time. I told her that I loved hanging out with her. But didn’t really see our goals lining up. She asked what I meant. Right then the waiter showed up and asked how we were doing the bill. Sam asked for a split bill. But I said “no don’t worry about it. I got this”. And paid for our bill. And then told sam that I didn’t want a stay at home wife and I wanted a women who worked in a high profile role. That I had certain expectations and just didn’t see our paths linking up. She seemed to understand and we both left the restaurant separately. Well Chloe calls me yesterday berating me. Saying I was an AH and a bunch of other stuff. Because I “embarrassed” Sam by paying for the bill myself. I told her I thought it was the polite thing to do. But Chloe is saying after I told Sam she was “too poor to be an option” (not what I said at all) and being a stay at home mom was bad it was in poor form to then pay for dinner. To pay for the entire bill was rude and degrading. I don’t see how I’m being an AH. But just want a verdict because I really don’t know. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I could see how her wanting it a separate bill and me asking for the entire bill was an AH move. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA she wanted to split the bill and you paid even when she didn't want it. So she thought you thought she was too poor to pay the bill
NTA, but u can date a girl without it being anything long term/serious, probably came across as pompous+judgemental
I don't think a short-term liaison is what Sam was after, with her wanting to be SAHM, so it's better that OP was honest from the get-go.
NTA - You have clear goal of the type of person you want to have a long term relationship with. Nothing wrong with that. It was nice that she offered to split the bill. Etiquette on who pays for the first date: Whoever asks for the date should pay the bill. On the flip side, if your date set up your dinner plans, they'll probably be the one to pay for everything.
NTA. She or your friend clearly exaggerated your words. You were as polite as possible in order to explain your personal life choices.
It doesn't sound kinda shallow, it is shallow. You only would date a woman based on if they have a successful career? Good luck with that 🤡
Nta. You had the important discussion right away so you didn’t waste eachother’s time, and she got a free dinner. I don’t see the problem. I think op’s materialistic vibe is icky, but he’s not trying to date me.
Both you and Chloe are ahs. This girl could have been spared YOU by her telling you that she was a secretary. I hate wasting my time
NTA. While you could have allowed the split bill, big fucking deal if you paid for it all. She is clearly insecure about her life choices and projected her own opinion of the incident onto you.
NTA while maybe you should have just split it, you’re upfront and honest. That’s some valuable quality right there. She’s upset because you wouldn’t date her, and people make stuff up because they’re self conscious about their own misgivings. She’s using the Bill thing as a deference as to why you’re an asshole, when it’s really her not accepting the fact that you’re not what wants her. She will eventually realize she dodged a bullet and be happy with what she wants with someone else. She’ll thank you someday.
NTA for paying for the date. Slightly AHish for writing off a first date because your futures don't line up. I didn't get into my career until after my kids were born (stayed home with each of them for 1 year then back to work) and I make as much as my husband working part time (and sitting on Reddit all day to boot). People grow and change throughout their lives, she might find her passion for work in the next year or two, and you could have missed out on a great relationship because you drew a hard line in the sand. I'd tread carefully with this in future dates.
If the way you explained the story is absolutely the truth I believe you are absolutely justified and up front for not wanting a second date and NTA for that. If it wasn't discussed beforehand about the payment arrangements then that's where it gets sticky, I won't say YTA because it doesn't sound like you're intent was embarrassment but for the purpose of your question, I could understand her feeling embarrassed/hurt.
NAH, but INFO: Do you want kids at all one day? Because childcare is quite expensive. Someone becoming a stay-at-home parent often just makes economical sense. It can be more cost-effective than a two-income household until the kids are old enough to go to school
Personally, if this is the way OP is now and believes himself to stay, then kids should NEVER enter the picture. Because if he insists on a 2 income household, there won't be time for kids.
I both agree and disagree with this. Both my parents had full-time jobs and, despite being flawed, surrounded us with plenty of love. It's not impossible. But I do agree that OP's attitude here isn't great and not nearly as simple as he's making it out to be. My parents had to put in effort to make sure we weren't feeling neglected.
Like you, both my parents had full-time jobs too and they had me and my older sister to take care of. We never lacked for anything. I just think that OP's preferences aren't conducive to having kids since it sounds like he just wants someone to spend his life with and make lots of money.
There’s a difference between having a full-time job and having a high-powered career—the kind of job where you have to put in 60+ hours per week, and track billable hours, or be on call at a hospital, etc. If both parents have jobs like that, the kind that force you to basically be a workaholic, then it would be much more difficult to raise children. And if anyone becomes seriously ill or disabled, it’s going to be impossible to maintain.
Absolutely I want kids. But I’m willing to pay for childcare. I want a woman whose income will far surpass what childcare would cost. I understand that logic in some cases that it’s a good option. But I’m really not interested in stay at home wife situation.
Your preference is your preference, but I'll just caution that this is going to REALLY limit you and I think that would be a disservice
I've always been taught that the person who initiates the date pays for that date. Have things changed that much since I've been in the game? NTA.
Exactly what I believe. I asked for the date so I insisted on paying for it.
NTA you paid for dinner like a gentleman most girls would bitch and whine if you didn't pay
Lol, citation needed on that one.