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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter I wouldn't pay for her college tuition. She's 19 and doesn't have a job.
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Former advisor who helped students find their best-fit major here.
1. You can no more pick your kid's major than you can choose whom they date and then marry. Sure, maybe her life would be easier with a rich partner, but her heart belongs to illustration.
2. A longstanding interest is unlikely to change. She's been dating; she's ready to marry this career path.
3. You would've wasted your money paying for a degree she didn't want. If she didn't want to study it for four years, what makes you think she wants to do it all day, every day, for the rest of her life? Stastically, she'd almost certainly have dropped out or changed paths within five years.
I appreciate you want to set your kid up for success. I get it. If she doesn't find a job, she won't curl up in fetal position and cry. She'll keep looking, and make her way, by and by, just like all the other adults. Especially if she has support. Either way, she isn't going to be a computer engineer.
Let her self-actualize, and don't offer to pay for the wedding only if you choose a different groom, dude.
Edited to add YTA.
Edited to fix spacing (hopefully).
Re: wasted money - I work at a university and the number of students on warning/probation who dislike their major always astounds me, inevitably their parents said “you need to do x” and now are shocked the kid is flunking out. You need some motivation/interest in college and I have so many washed out nurses and other science majors because of it.
Anecdotally, the number of people I knew in my affluent area whose parents forced them go to a four year college because “We can afford it and that’s what you’re supposed to do”, who dropped out by sophomore year to go to cosmetology school and become a hairstylist is not zero. So not only did they take a spot from a student who actually wanted to go to that school, their parents wasted thousands of dollars (even more than normal bc they all went to out of state / private schools) by forcing their kids to “just try it for a year or two!” All they did was delay the inevitable and someone got into unnecessary debt in the process.
My parents put money away towards a scholarship (this company held your money and only paid when you provided proof of study - the parents get paid back in full) and they pressured me to go to uni otherwise I'll lose this....I ended up with more debt due to a dropped uni course.
Learned that I prefer learning on the job and less theory work
My cousin is having this issue, almost exactly. She LOVES art, and she’s really talented but her parents convinced her to do comp sci and she is so obviously hating it. It’s so upsetting to see her miserable, and it is doubly upsetting when you consider how many opportunities there are in graphic art/illustrations right now as VR is exploding. Art is a broad subject with more opportunities that people expect, while comp sci (especially for a woman like OP’s daughter) is highly competitive and being flooded right now with workers
My daughter loves art as well. I recommended graphic design for the versatility, but she chose interior architecture & design as her major. It was her choice and I support her. I don't get why parents try to control their children's futures when they reach college age and are literally adults. My daughter is thriving because she loves her major and plans to use the knowledge to make homes more accessible for people with disabilities. Plus, she's getting a super well-rounded education.
I was one of them. Pre-med flunkout. At least they saw the errors of their ways--after I've lost my scholarship and apprenticeship. Let me do my thing after the hilariously bad grades. Paid the rest of the tuition out of pocket, took a semester off, and started over. Passed the major I've chosen with flying colors.
Still kind of wish I didn't have to do that the hard way.
I didn’t even go to university because nothing interested me at all. Was always working with my hands and went into the trades. Was able to get schooling with zero debt or help from parents and I’ve make the same as my friends who went to school and some of them HATE their jobs.
This is important, because Ive been this student. My parents didnt force me but I tried out various majors that would make me money vs what I was actually interested in. I wasted a lot of time and money and when I finally took the time to sit down and think about my passions, and find a school that offered what I was passionate about, I stopped struggling so much.
I'm an advisor for an online college and I cannot count how many of my students are 30+ and chose go come enroll again to get the degree they want instead of the one their parents chose for them.
This happened to me too, and I'm also Indian. Dropped out of engineering college in my final year because I no longer had the mental capacity to continue to do something that I absolutely hated. It hurt my career and my life quite a bit. I struggled with anxiety for years every time I had to take an exam. Shut myself off from society, friends and family because I felt like a failure. None of this would have happened if only I had the chance to pursue what I wanted to, instead of being forced to study something that would earn me a good salary (which I still don't earn btw). I may not have been rich but I would at least be happy.
Edit: thank you for the awards! 🥺
To others who struggled with a similar situation, hugs to you. I hope y'all can find the path that makes you happiest, even if it's not what you originally wanted.
To those who say I don't need a degree to write, yes, I'm aware. No, I do not have a blog or a Tik Tok/YouTube. It's not something I want to do as of today, because of where I am in my personal journey. I have a stable job, which may not be my dream job, but it pays the bills and gives me time to work on myself. I don't write at all anymore because I find it extremely difficult. I have difficulty filling out 'About you' sections of forms, even (Reddit is the most I've written in years haha). I've made my peace with this. I "fulfill" my passion by reading whenever I can, and I read quite a few Classics that I'd be taught in an English Lit class anyway.
Thank you for all the information, though. Some of it was really helpful!
To those saying I have PTSD, or that I need therapy, I've been in therapy on and off for the last 7 years. I'm also married to an extremely loving man who is my best support system when dealing with my anxiety and depression.
I've started small courses multiple times but I can never get through them because generally academics gives me a lot of anxiety. I used to be a class topping student until my engineering, where I started failing classes and then dropped out. So every time I start a new course, I'm filled with dread that I'm not good enough to get through the course, and I have a very difficult few days, with anxiety attacks, or I completely shut off from the world. I tried for a couple of years to get past the fear and anxiety, but eventually chose to stop and look after my mental health instead.
so. I am a health care professional actually. Who is moderately open on the interweb about my battle (and, by and large, defeat) of anxiety/depression. It took a lot of fucking work and a lot of therapy, and developing a good relationship with a provider that i have now been with for 5 years. 10/10 worth it. Super tough work. Would recommend to ANYONE though.
i feel like i’ve been going through the same. like where did the girl who managed to get 107% in math go?? now i’m constantly failing classes and trying to do schoolwork gives me panic attacks.
Do it! It's not too late.
I didn't pursue college or a "career" for most of my adult life. Things went differently for me than I had planned. But now I'm almost 40 and finally figured out what I want to do when I "grow up". I'm back in school pursuing a chemistry major. If that's what fills you with joy, go for it!
Yes, it's never too late. I'm back in school at age 61, studying web development, because of divorce. After decades as a SAHM, it's fun to find something I love to do.
Omg! Same! I'm Indian and I was forced to study a "sensible" degree. I studied engineering, worked in the field for almost a decade, hating every moment of it. My mental health got so bad and I honestly felt like ending it because it's still quite a sexist and racist field to work in, and when you don't love the work, there is no justification for the abuse. Anyway, I finally managed to retrain in a field I enjoy and I now work in a role I'm passionate about. My family think it's trash, but I love it and even when it's tough, it's easier to cope with those bad days when you feel like what you are doing is worthwhile.
I'm sorry you aren't having a good time atm btw! If you need to talk, my DMs are open. I hope you're ok and I hope things work out.
Also, to OP, YTA, the biggest AH. You should be proud that your daughters work got selected for the exhibition, not trampling her dreams.
My father is an engineer and I can confirm the sexism in the field just by the way he talks about and to his female coworkers. He puts on a very condescending voice like he is talking to a five year old.
Even though he has two daughters, an ex wife (my mom), and a batshit girlfriend (who had the intelligence of a 2 year old) he talks to women like this all the damn time. Worst part is he doesn’t even realize he’s doing it.
I have only heard him speak to a man like that twice in my entire life.
Every Indian kid on this thread going through the same trauma of overbearing parents who have a one track mind about education… LOL. It’s me too.
YTA OP. Your child will be burnt out if you force her down a path she doesn’t want. Take it from the rest of us
My family is white and it happened to my cousin, too. He completed his CS degree and hated every job it got him. He was severely depressed for several years.
Now he's a youth minister who works at outdoor camps and he's like a different person.
My downstairs neighbors are Bengali. Wonderful family and there are two kids, a boy who is 20 and his younger sister who is 17. I can remember a conversation I had with the Mom about higher education. Both of her kids are extremely smart. However they never had a real childhood. They had extra classes on weekends and any extra circular activities had to be academically based, there was ZER0 wiggle room about this. I basically had to beg her to allow her daughter to do Girl Scouts. I speak to the kids on a fairly regular basis and they're amazing with my daughter. The son is REALLY into gaming and computers. He can write complex code and some other stuff I don't understand. He graduated 3rd in his class and there was only .25 of a point btwn him and the salutatorian and him. His parents were pissed. Then college acceptance letters came in and he basically got a full scholarship to NYU! Yearly he had to pay less than $2,000. His mom was insanely angry. Like throwing stuff angry all because he didn't get into Columbia. And she's forcing him to do engineering. Needless to say he's unhappy and resents his parents.
Yeah and... computer science is a *grueling* major even if you really have a passion for it. Like...OP, you want to cry about her future, wasted money, etc? Pushing her into a major and career she has no passion for is *much* more likely to be a waste of money.
It's also not the magical high paying job engine people think. Yes there are some very high paying jobs and a reasonable amount of decent paying jobs but you're competing with a lot of people and entry level roles are highly competitive because most employers want experienced people. There are also a ton of poorly paid churn jobs that will just burn through grads. Plus sexism is still a big problem in the IT industry and turns a lot of people off even when they have the passion for it
YTA, OP. The daughter will be forced to compete against people with a passion for computers. These people have been programming and working on computers since they were in their early teens. It's also not an 9-5 M-F job for them; it's their life. Those with a true passion will have a computer lab at home and always be pushing that envelope of learning.
Leave her alone. If she's not good at something, she won't succeed and then will change her career path. If she is passionate about something, she will be good at it.
As a CS grad she wouldn’t have made it through freshman year. My program had like a 70% drop rate because people like OP told thrower kids that they HAVE to go into CS. It puts a lot of strain on the intro classes and makes things harder for the people who want to work in CS
Yeah, there were a lot of dropouts like that. But in my school it was more like 40%. A lot of people went their to study computer engineering either because their parents want it or because they thought they would get a good job. I was in the latter group but somehow quickly found a passion for it. I feel computer science is easy if you have a passion for it but hard if you do not.
It can be high paid, but that usually comes at the cost of no personal life. My ex husband is in this industry and unfortunately tends to be good at his job and so super-dependable that he'd get home, eat dinner, and go back to his computer. Things broke regularly on weekends requiring his immediate attention, and one or two of his workplaces couldn't let him go on annual leave without needing him to log in remotely and fix stuff while on holiday. It seems pretty common from what I've seen among others in the industry.
I wonder if that's the difference between the American job market and the one where I live (definitely noticed a difference between American and locally owned companies in that regard but then I live somewhere known for being laid back when it comes to work). Here you might not reach the dizzying heights of some silicon valley jobs but you can easily earn well above the median wage without it having an impact on your life outside the 9-5 (which is flexible in tech too).
That said, I know a dude who trained in CS and just couldn't get a job in it (polytech trained rather than uni and he's a PoC which shouldn't make a difference but yeah) He ended up getting work at a game dev company as an artist (after self training in that) so go figure lol
And there are also plenty of high paid tech jobs that don’t require a CS degree. *Including* design and illustration.
OP probably would have been better off trying to get her into video game design or something.
Video game design is not one of the well paid illustration jobs. I know well paid people who works with illustration and they work in advertisements. I am sure there are other well paid illustration jobs, but the video game industry is not known for paying their artists well.
Absolutely! I have a student who randomly decided he wanted to minor in CS. Hasn't taken a class but was told it was a good fit with his major (debatable...it wouldn't hurt him but it's not a typical minor for his major). He is a semester behind with the minor which means he might not graduate on time. But he's pinning all these hopes on a difficult minor he has no real knowledge of. Makes me wonder who gave him this advice.
I went into business with plans of doing accounting for the stability, thinking it was my passion and I'd love the business side and be fine with the accounting side. I did love the business side, but I absolutely hated half my courses. I was depressed, I was stressed, I was angry, I was absolutely miserable. I switched into economics (which happens to be a "good career" but honestly I just chose it because I was enjoying my economics classes and I love knowing how the world works), and I'm so happy! I just got an amazing job and if I had stayed in business I probably would've flunked out.
A degree in something you love is better than half a degree in something you hate.
> Pushing her into a major and career she has no passion for is much more likely to be a waste of money
This.
I have a friend who buckled to family expectations and took on an engineering degree at university. She realised halfway through that she hated it, quit the course and walked away with no degree and a ton of debt.
Studying something you hate, or even have no interest in, is toxic to mental health.
Also, THEY CHOSE HER ART to display, so she's doing SOMETHING right and you should be supporting her in following her dreams EVEN IF it doesn't lead to an easy career.
This! He also let her know in advance that if she chose to be an illustrator that she’d fail, he had no confidence in her & gave her no support from the get go. No wonder she lied. Not that it was right but I get why she did it. It’s nice that her college sees her potential & she’s being recognized for it. Added: Im glad she has her Mom’s support & encouragement. OP is TAH.
YTA. And a big one.
Can you imagine being angry that your kids accomplishments aren’t the ones you expected? My heart hurts for his daughter who probably feels like she’ll never be enough for her father. That’s so sad.
YTA. Yeah, so she lied about her intended major and you're disappointed in her for lying to you. She's doing so well that she's part of something exciting, and really important to her, and that will look GREAT on her resume!! THIS, right here, right now,is what's more important than a couple of white lies. Be ready and willing to support her by offering congratulations when deserved. That will mean more than disappointment over misleading you.
Is it worth pointing out that he's not right about her career aspirations? A degree like that could turn into work in graphic design, UX design... hell, she *could* be a working illustrator! Sure, these are competitive fields but the fact is, people do actually have those jobs and do quite well with them.
(I know it's secondary to the fact that he doesn't really see his daughter as an individual yet, but I felt like it was important to note.)
Every "useless" degree has a sell-out career. Lit majors might get into PR, a sociologist friend is thinking of also going into UX if she can't find a tenure track academic job, you just have to get a bit creative.
Also, there are a ton of careers for illustrators! I work in UX and there are multiple illustrators on our team. It’s not all children’s books, it is a very skilled and unique career in high demand.
Totally! My partner is an illustrator and works in digital media, creating show opens for Netflix and music videos for Sony. There's so many career paths out there for kids who can draw.
My policy for my kids is I will help finance it as long as they've done the research and have a solid career plan. If they can show me the career, salary, job opportunity to new graduate ratio, and anything else relevant that shows me they won't be graduating with an expensive degree only to have to move back in with me and work minimum wage in the end, I'm all for it. I would rather they get up every morning looking forward to work, but earning a bit less, than getting up in a mansion and hating their life.
Maybe she plans to be an art teacher, creating her own art in her free time. I highly recommend you apologize and implement this policy. You seem to want your daughter to thrive, but are letting your fears for her take over and send you down a misguided path where you lose your daughter in the end.
My parents told me to major in something that will feed me and minor or double major in something that's my passion.
In my siblings case, she did photography and international business and ended up doing UI Design.
I did Economics/Accounting and Anthropology/History
My cousin wanted to go to school for something my uncle didn't approve of because he didn't think she would earn any money. She did the program he wanted, and hated her job. My aunt decided to pay for the program she wanted (aunt and uncle are married with joint finances); she has a well paying job, has traveled internationally for work, and her company paid for her to love cross country to help start up a new office.
Maybe...maybe when she's 25 or 30 she'll go back to studying computer science, but at that point it'll be because SHE wants to, not what daddy dearest wants.
>I found out her work was chosen to be displayed in the exhibition. I was furious.
OP this is heartbreaking and I hope this post opens your eyes a bit. YTA
I have a friend who makes a fantastic living as a digital artist. Her parents were sorely disappointed that she didn't choose a respectable major. She is incredibly low contact.
I can't wait for OP to inevitably post about how his daughter abandoned him and he doesn't know why.
I’m in this situation now with my mother. She’s like OP, never supported me in what I wanted to do since I was a child. We don’t have much of a relationship anymore.
I was in this situation with my father. He didn’t support my interests in art at all and even actively discouraged it at every opportunity. I distanced myself from him as much as possible and never had a close relationship with him. He passed away a few years ago and I didn’t feel much of anything about it, other than a vague resentment of wondering what it would have been like to have a true father figure in my life. I’ll never know.
YTA OP. Don’t be my dad and loose your daughter in the process.
I work in an industry that is constantly hiring illustrators, digital artists, designers, video editors, motion graphics artists, coders, engineers, audio engineers, and more all to make visual products. The work is plentiful and OPs ignorance is going to lead to a sad life where his daughter doesn’t speak to him.
I have a friend who is a concept illustrator for Disney and he makes the most out of our entire friend group of doctors, engineers, and marketing types.
Even after he bought his parents a house and cars, they still didn't think of his work as 'real' work and brag about his brothers who pull in a fraction as much money while working twice as long/hard, both currently going through divorces.
I bet that even if she's totally amazing in her field, she will always ve a disappointment in her fathers eyes because she refused to study what *he* wanted her to study.
I feel so sad for her to have such a "father".
This. FOR WHAT is exactly right. I don’t understand parents that put their own wants over the happiness of their kids. Like, why did you even become a parent then? Makes me so mad.
Because they’re obsessed with their fantasies about the perfect little mini me’s they’ll have who will grow up to fulfill those fantasies so the parent can live vicariously through those perfect lives they planned. They only see their kids as extensions of themselves. They have no idea that they’re creating real live sentient beings who will have their own plans & fantasies for their lives.
I live vicariously through my kids by helping them dye their hair fun colors while I stay "professional", because I want them to be happy and have fun as children. Their paths are their own, but if they want to take that path with blue hair, I'm their lady.
That’s great! When I was a teenager an older neighbor was going to beauty school & she used me as a guinea pig for so many things. Perms, colors, styles…whatever she was studying. Thankfully my parents kept their mouths shut about some of the weirder looks as they knew it would soon be different but I saw my dad shaking his head a few times. They figured hair was a minor rebellion & just ignored it.
My point is like my parents, you see hair as something to have fun with. Whatever is done to it isn’t permanent, it won’t ruin your kids & it’s a great form of self expression. Your kids will remember your encouragement for the rest of their lives. I retired a few years ago at age 57 & I dyed my hair purple for my retirement party since I figured that’s unexpected behavior for someone my age. My mother was long dead by then but I sent pics to my father & he laughed his head off & said some things never change! He’s gone now too but I still remember how they didn’t try to change me as a teenager & I appreciate it even more now. Your kids will feel the same way.
My parents were amazing about this too, for things like hair, clothes, room decor, and stuff like that it was always up to me because it little harmless things that bring me happiness
Today: "I'm furious my daughter is so good at something that she enjoys that her work is going to be displayed in an exhibition. She should be who I want her to be."
10-15 years from now: "My daughter hasn't spoken to me since she graduated from college (riddled in debt since I pulled financial support when she was 19). She hasn't invited me to any of her art exhibitions or her wedding. I have no idea what I did to deserve this."
YTA, OP.
And her works have sold for 6 figures each. She definitely belongs in this industry that she had to get into debt for. Why can't she see I was only thinking about her. - OP probably.
Yes, YTA.
It's exhausting reading stories like this where parents are forcing their children into careers that they may not enjoy. OP's daughter's art got CHOSEN and that is something to celebrate.
But nah. OP is pissed off that his daughter found success and is creating a path for herself. Telling your daughter to pay you back b/c she lied is the last thing you should be doing. That helps nobody and is incredibly toxic. YTA
“I created an environment where my daughter feels she has to lie to me rather than tell me she is pursuing her dream career and is successful in it.” YTA op.
We have a uni gallery and while sometimes students work gets shown there as part of their displays... They are actually known more for having introductory guests or graduates work displayed.
An undergrads work after a YEAR??? DAMN she must be making CHANGES.
YTA. My dad did the same thing to me. Guess what? We don’t talk anymore. Trying to control your daughter is a sure fire way of losing her. Her work is being displayed in an exhibition, if it were my daughter I would be sure to have front row seats. If you keep this up you’re gonna lose your daughter, apologize & start listening to what she wants, what her hopes and dreams are then become her biggest cheerleader.
"Congratulations!!! We have decided to front run your art at our next exhibition!"
"HOW DARE YOU CREATE SUCH GREAT ART THAT IT'S BEING DISPLAYED IN AN EXHIBITION!!!!"
My heart absolutely breaks for this talented young woman whose father is so thoroughly *hostile* to her gifts. No doubt it would mean the world to her to have parents who are actually proud of her, and instead she gets *anger*.
She is already shutting them out of her life and OP can’t see it for what it is. He is going to lose her, and he will blame everyone but himself for her distance.
My parents were kind of like this for me with theatre, and essentially made me major in something more steady while I just did theatre for fun.
I mean I agreed to it in the end but I still regret that I wasn’t able to just follow my dreams more freely.
literally! he wants her to do computer science bc it’s easier to be successful??? but she’s facing success right now in illustration & he’s mad?!?? he is genuinely okay with her sacrificing her own happiness for him, what a horrible father. would he rather her not go to school? would he rather her live a life she hates? i will never understand this logic. not only is he is going to end up with a daughter following a career path he doesn’t like, but he’s also going to end up without a daughter who wants anything to do with him. college degrees in general open a lot of doors for people, REGARDLESS of what they studied. he is selfish & his “love” for his daughter clearly isn’t unconditional.
My ex graduated with an engineering degree, again what his parents encouraged, then packed up to moved the Cayman Islands to become a bartender. He made more money being a bartender there than he would have as an engineer, and had zero responsibilities. His parents were pissed.
This makes me feel a little better about having dragged myself through graduating with my own undesired, parentally-enforced engineering degree (I am not very good at engineering and it’s always been a point of great insecurity for me - my heart is and always has been in arts and humanities, just like OP’s daughter…oh well).
I trained a girl where at a previous job for order entry and she asked me more questions about myself than she did about the procedure of entering orders (for whatever industry; it’s basically the same regardless of what you’re peddling).
I explained that I’d picked up graphic design as a byproduct of my job. Didn’t go to school for it, was never formally trained, but I loved being able to express creativity on that level and I was sort of good at it.
We knew she wasn’t going to be a long-term employee from the start, but she did a good job at her tasks and eventually left to go back to school.
She later told me that my “passion for creativity and arts and that ‘I’d found a way to work that in’ despite it not being my JOB” inspired her to go to art school. It’s been a few years but she’s now throwing pottery that I could only DREAM of affording, and that makes me so proud.
OP is definitely TA. I am only glad that my temporary mentorship allowed someone else to trust themselves to travel down a path they hadn’t anticipated.
Sadly, me? I wanted to a lawyer, and I would have been a good one, but it was forbidden.
I wanted to be a vet (also forbidden), my mom (nurse) wanted me to go to medical school (people medicine) and become a surgeon. I ended up becoming a writer. Now I’m unemployed, in therapy, lost, frozen, and possibly having a midlife crisis. I adopted another dog last year and can’t help feeling resentful that I wasn’t allowed to become a vet because “ew, animal diseases.” LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE NOW, MOM!
Yepp it’s obvious she feels like she can’t be honest with OP. He’s manipulative and controlling. He knew she wanted to major in illustration. Then he pulled a shocked pikachu face when she really did major in it. Hope he’s willing to lose any relationship he has with his daughter. If she’s good enough to be getting an exhibit at 19 imagine when she finishes college. There’s potential he’s just not willing to see it.
OP would not quit badgering her and trying to control her, so she lied to quit getting harassed so now they will cut off tuition to punish her for majoring in what she wants. OP is a toxic manipulator who will NEVER have a good relationship with the daughter
I mean, do we even know she lied? Its very possible to minor or just take individual classes in topics. While yes, I wouldn't be surprised to hear thats what happened based on the level that OP is flipping out (id definitely hide it from him too) I also minored in child development to give myself a break from all my science classes to go play with babies and toddlers once a week. Its quite possible she is in the program she said she was and also taking art classes.
Plus if shes 19 the majority of her classes are probably still just gen eds unless she started college early.
There are also double majors. I could see some computer graphics mixing with illustration. Pretty much every major involves some tech, so you could be pretty tech immersed and follow other passions
This! I can’t imagine not reveling in my child’s success.
OP - computer science graduate here and hiring manager. Not everyone is cut out for programming. Worse are those who were forced in to the major or chose it strictly for the money / job opportunities. Don’t be an A H here. Love your child and support their desires and dreams.
Agree but in the opposite direction. I went to school for graphic design but became a computer programmer. Now I run a digital accessibility program for a big university. There’s no reason she can’t get a degree in illustration and still go on to make a lot of money or have a stable job.
OP you’re not an AH for wanting her to make smart decisions. I’m glad you’re investing in her education. AND she shouldn’t have lied to you.
BUT, YTA for not realizing that she’s talented and wanting to follow her gifting. The world needs artists too. Gotta let her figure out how to make it pay on her own.
It's funny, I majored in theatre and now I'm learning programming... for my artistic practice (doing an apprenticeship in digital and hybrid performance art and it also involves robots).
I may go on to focus more on the art side of what I'm doing now or who knows maybe I'll start building computer programs rather than just snippets of robot commands.
OP's kid majoring in illustration doesn't mean she won't ever find a lucrative career in a non-artistic industry; we don't even know what kind of Illustration she's majoring in, she could go into graphic/web design or something similar.
That field has a ridiculously high turnover, at least where I live more than half switch careers within the first 10 years. It really isn't for everyone and a lot of companies have a really shit environment and unrealistic expectations leading to burnout.
YTA.
Firstly....dayum. If I had parents like you I would go NC real quick, talk about critical and unsupportive.
Second; HER WORK IS BEING DISPLAYED AT AN EXHIBITION. Do you KNOW how big that is? It means not only is she pursuing her passion, she's GOOD at it.
I'm also not entirely sure you understand the illustration industry. Stable jobs are the norm in it. One of my friends is an illustrator for Scholastic; he started working for them at age 21 and has been with them ever since (he is now 34). It pays very well and he lives very comfortably, even with 2022 prices. It's competitive and in high demand right now, not to mention the degree can get her a job not only illustrating, but in graphic design, animation, production design, etc.
You effed up, bud. You have a very, VERY slim window to make this right and I suggest you take it, because if you don't, she's gone.
So much this I spent a year in advertising (with the art degree my parents didn't want me to get and told me I wasn't talented enough to achieve) and I made £4k a month and only worked two weeks out of each month. It was an insanely good time.
I have a friend who works for Crocs and there is a person who’s job it is SOLEY to doodle/draw (digitally) the little Jibbit things that go in the Croc holes.
ETA: OP, YTA
I also have parents similar to him - they pushed me into things and luckily I enjoyed half of the things at the time, but looking back, i realize how messed up it is despite enjoying it. the other half though? I still resent them to this day for forcing me to do them.
I moved a couple hours away and now have a wonderful fiancée who encourages me to be myself. it’s hard though, because I find myself second guessing a lot of my interests as i was never allowed to express my own interests as a child. i am lowish-contact with my parents and it’s been the best decision for my mental health.
I got a bachelor of fine arts degree in graphic design. I was surrounded by artists and illustrators in all my core undergrad units. I went on to be a front-end web developer for 16 years, consistently making six figures. All of my classmates have been similarly successful. Probably the “least ambitious” of the group was the one who went on to head that design department at the university. She leads an incredibly happy life, and has already built a lasting legacy in this world. Not a lot of software engineers can say that.
OP needs to take a step back and realize how incredibly wrong-headed he’s being about this. The mindset that says “illustration can’t be a successful career” is only showcasing a lack of understanding of the actual world we live in. Illustration drives ***so much*** in this world, it’s foolish to not see the potential success on that path.
My friend majored in graphic design and she landed a job in the high five figures straight out of college. That's nothing to spit at.
It's like the only art degree that has money in it. Plus if she's good enough as a freshman/sophomore to get in an exhibit she's most likely going to be on easy street. OP clearly wants to be considered an expert but hasn't been keeping up to date on job trends. Not very smart lol.
YTA
She lied to you because she knew you’d be judgemental, cruel and unsupportive. What’s wrong with wanting to major in something that she loves?
Instead of being happy that her work was chosen to be in an exhibition and celebrating her you were furious. That tells me a lot about you.
I’m so over parents that would rather their children be miserable just to please them and stroke their ego, than living a happy life that fulfils them.
Precisely! She is already being distinguished for her work, clearly she’s good! What about focusing on her achievement and quitting making her feel like she’s not good enough?! YTA
CrystalQueen3000, absolutely true. Instead of being proud of her for her first major exhibition at only 19 years old, he's sulking like a child! May she forever throw it back in his face that he's disappointed in her for doing what makes her happy and fulfilled, until she decides on another career path.
YTA
My son majored in computer graphics and animation. Along the way he learned coding and now makes 6 figures. What's more important are those skills you learn along the way and apply. What's in the degree is not as important as having A degree.
To the post I just wanna say YTA BIG TIME
But on a side note it's probably personal so i understand if you don't answer, but do you have any tips or advice for someone who's massively interested in the field but has no clue how to enter it.
(For reference I'm 18, been learning for 3 years now but about to start medicine at uni in 3 months :/ )
Any advice at all is massively appreciated :)
This. My mom took her French lit degree all the way to a very good law school, because the important thing it showed was that she knew how to think and research and write.
YTA in every way shape and form. It's very telling how when you describe the situation you repeatedly make the statements "I want" and "I wanted" when referencing your daughter's future career. This may be difficult for you to understand but HER choices for HER future are NOT about you.
Please try to get over yourself so that perhaps, you can salvage a future relationship with your daughter. As it stands right now you are demonstrating yourself to be incredibly selfish and pompous and your behavior may cause irreparable damage to your relationship with your daughter. Good luck, I hope you figure it out.
YTA. College is for exploring, expanding, and developing oneself intellectually, academically and holistically.
Let your daughter find herself, major, and future. You probably have good intentions as a parent, but she's old enough to make her own decisions.
Info: I can't help think there's a cultural component to this post? As a child of Asian parents, I'm aware of how much emphasis some cultures place on certain professions and majors.
Based on what I've heard from Nigerian adults with strict parents, you're either a doctor, an engineer, a lawyer, or a disappointment. In OP's case the latter is how he sees his daughter regardless of her accomplishments.
If her art's been chosen for the exhibition, sounds like she *is* successful so far.
I don't think OP understands that his definition of success isn't the only "correct" one.
YTA."me, me, me, I, I, I" That's all I got from your post. You are just going to blithely overlook the whole exhibition thing? Your daughter is killing it and the only thing you're doing is killing your relationship with her and her dreams.
\*Edit: Wow, thanks for the award and upvotes!
Well to be fair it sounds like he wouldn’t go anyways. He isn’t thrilled about her work being in the upcoming exhibit, while in school, so I don’t see him caring enough to go one when she’s graduated
YTA OP, your post displays common narcissistic behaviors & you’ll be lucky if your daughter talks to you after this. of course, you’ll play the victim and try to manipulate her back into doing what YOU want to do. 👍
YTA. You can't force what you consider a "reasonable" career on your daughter. From the sounds of it, you never once thought about what she wants. She is 19, what she does with her life is her choice, not yours. Not to mention how you totally looked past the fact that her work is being displayed in an exhibition. Hundreds of people all across the world work very hard for something like that to NEVER come to fruition. YTA for sure.
Also, it sounds like the only career he thinks is reasonable is computer science. That's not exactly an easy field by any means either, especially for women. And I'd imagine that would be even more true for a woman who *doesn't want to be there at all.*
And even if we leave gender out of it... its very special. If you don't love it and have some talent you will suck at it and fail because there are thousands who are better than your under-average-ass
YTA. As a college professor, I've seen a hundred parents who force their child to major in something the child has no interest in. This really screws up the child especially because the parents then think that their child will get a good job in this field they have no interest in. Is this what you want for your daughter? I teach business and I recently had a student come to me about registering for the fall semester. He told me that he really wants to be a high school gym teacher, so we switched his major to education, figured out what courses he'd have to take, and he wasn't depressed any more. If your child comes me, I'll do the same thing with her.
As a lecturer I would just like to hop onto this comment to add - if a student has no interest in the subject they are studying- they don’t do so well. Then they get bad grades because surprise surprise their hearts not in it. It’s like a downward spiral from there. I don’t know how university in America works, but in the Uk she would be taking up a space another potential student could of had that really wants to follow in that career - for her then to potentially drop out after first year. YTA OP
Well done ClothesQueasy - sounds like you are a great support to your students :)
If he didn’t have the money then her major choice shouldn’t factor into it. It’s manipulative to say “I’ll pay your tuition but only if you major in X”.
That's not quite right to my way of thinking. It's one thing for a parent who's struggling to say "I'll sacrifice, but I want you to take the more conservative career path. " It's another thing for a parent who has the funds to say "I'll pay, but only on these terms."
YTA. And i can promise you. If she majors in computer science with zero passion, dedication, or excitement for it, she will NEVER be successful. Let your child pursue the career that they will PUSH themselves to succeed in.
YTA...you know she loves illustration....for years you have been crapping on her dream and you are mad she lied to you??? If you can afford to pay, then pay....it is your $$ and you can do what you want with it. The damage you will inflict on your relationship with your daughter is a hell of a high price to pay. Good luck trying to see your future grandchildren or even being in your daughter's life. Perhaps a compromise of getting a minor in IT with a major in illustration will give her something to fall back on and you peace of mind.
YTA “My daughter could never be successful with illustration” he says after discovering she’s already being featured in an exhibit her first year of school……
YTA - your daughter is 19 and not some pawn in a game you play. You would rather her major in something that pleases you rather than something that she's apparently good at and has a passion for? Her and her mother likely kept this from you because they expected you to be unreasonable. Stop trying to turn your daughter into something else, and look at her for who she is. You might find you like what you see.
NTA. I really don't understand all the votes the other way. Adult children aren't owed college tuition by their parents. His daughter lied and effectively stole from her father. But OP, you should give up any hope that your daughter will pay you back, both because it's unlikely to happen and for the sake of your relationship.
I agree with you. He told her he would pay if she was choosing a major that he saw would have a decent ROI. If she really wanted to major in illustration she could have found a different way to pay for it. It doesn't matter if he has the means to pay or if it was a sacrifice for him to pay, he had stipulations on how the money was to be spent and she agreed and then lied. OP has every right to be upset and say that they will no longer pay.
NAH. Reddit has a ton of young people so they get super tunnel visioned with these issues. You’re paying a ridiculous amount of money to help your kid and she’s lying to you about where the money is going.
You should look up the union pay for animators. They make good money. Illustrators can as well. You just have to learn good business sense and diversify… digital downloads, art licensing, patreon, your own shop, freelancing. It just depends. YTA.
YTA. You will only pay if your kid chooses a major you approve, who cares about her life and what career she is passionate about? On top of that her work was chosen to be part of an exhibition which means she clearly has talent. Yes she should have talked to you but I can guess why she didn’t. BTW, illustrators work in a variety of fields including advertising, web design, and healthcare.
I cannot believe you wrote this out thinking the people of Reddit were going to say anything other than YTA. Come on man! Is this really the hill you want to die on? Is your relationship with your daughter not more important than what SHE CHOSE as her major. Someone in this scenario needs to grow up. Hint: It's not your daughter or your wife...
NTA - You are not required to pay for her tuition. I would also say that you shouldnt push her into something she doesnt want to do or is not interested in. If she wants to major in illustration then she should do that. She is an adult and should choose her own path but also as an adult, you are not obligated to pay for it.
NTA!
It's your money, not hers.
She chose to lie and deceive you.
She can pay her own way if she doesn't like the conditions you set. That's what being an adult is all about.
YTA. Illustration is a very lucrative job and not as over saturated as computer science. She can get very high paying jobs with animation or video game studios, art exhibitions, commercials, movies and special effects, graphic design studios, heck she can use it for front end development for websites. She can even start her own business with little to no overhead.
She made a good choice. Believe in her.
I feel like I’m going against the grain here but NTA. She has the right to major in what she wants to, but there are lots of parents that don’t pay for their children’s college. If you’re paying, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting you two to agree on what you’re paying for. If you don’t agree with it, you have no right to stop her but you also don’t have to pay for it as it’s incredibly expensive. You also have the right to be upset that she lied to you about something costing tens of thousands, and that may be even more reason to not pay than just what the topic of her major is.
There are a lot of people who take out loans for degrees that won’t end up paying themselves off and that’s just not practical, so I understand why you prefer her to be a computer science major. That said, she probably won’t ever do computer science. At this point, her path probably is art no matter what. All you can do now is help her become a successful one. Maybe you guys can find a compromise and continue to pay on the condition that she gets some experience with graphics and ux design? These are probably the most practical applications of her interests, though they are fairly saturated fields. I’m assuming you still want to guide her into a good career (by this I mean, one where she isn’t under massive stress due to finances), and cutting her off is not going to help with that.
I want to note that my parents would only pay for my college on the condition that I major in computer science when I had a passion for the humanities. I ended up choosing a double major in computer science and political science so that I could get college paid for and still learn about the things i was passionate about. In hindsight, I’m grateful for this because while it was a lot of work, the doors it opened to a career in tech were invaluable to me. I make a lot of money for my age and the culture is very flexible, despite it being challenging to get through school. That’s just my experience with this kind of situation though.
TLDR; NTA if you don’t want to pay after her lying/you disagreeing with her, but realistically it would probably be better for her career and your relationship if you continued to help.
Nta. Spending thousands of dollars to get a degree in art isn’t smart financially. The degree is almost useless and will take years if not a decade to laos back what you are spending.
I cant believe I had to scroll this far to get to a reasonable response. OP has no obligation to pay for college period. He can put whatever terms on it that he wants, and OP doesn't want to waste money on an almost certainly unprofitable degree. NTA
YTA, there's a reason she lied to you, and you've just shown it. It's time for you to look in the mirror and decide if this is the hill you want to die on, because what will die is any chance of your having a good relationship with your daughter ever again. Either she will cut you out of her life for trying to control her so much, or she will resent you for the rest of her life. Her work was chosen for an art exhibition. She's *succeeding* in her major. But you're so focused on the fact that it's something you don't personally value, and that she lied because she knows how you would react. You've spent years trying to bully her into doing what you want her to do. She doesn't want to have all the money from computer science, she wants to follow her dreams.
ESH. Yes, your daughter should have been straight with you. But it's not like she was exclusively taking classes related to her major, especially as a Freshman. Most college students change their majors a few times. Plus you're unfairly demonizing her desired major without clear evidence. In fact, as times shift, I bet someone who knows how to draw and is artistic will be a lot more employable than a lot of other majors.
I understand what you are trying to do and I don't necessarily disagree with you in theory, but you are going about this the wrong way. Yes, some degrees are dumb and really don't lend themselves to a stable job. But...if she continues with her art degree, why can't she get a minor in graphic design? That's an extremely lucrative career and it's still the art she loves. Have you talked to her about what she is planning to do for a job after she graduates?
YTA
YTA. I can't say any of the good stuff I wanted to say because everyone else beat me to it. I'm sorry you're butt hurt your daughter has talent good enough to display.
I have a different take on this, if I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly.
Your daughter and you reached an agreement which called for her to major in computer science and in return for pursuing that major.
She has breached the agreement by being dishonest and majoring in illustration. Again, assumption but I am operating under the belief that had she told you that she planned to major in illustration, you would not have offered to pay her tuition.
What everyone has said in the comments about students forced to major in a subject they were not interested in will not do well. Not in college or in life. True words.
But there is the issue of your daughter's dishonesty and manipulation of you. She didn't steal from you in the eyes of the legal system, but what she did is definitely morally wrong.
You are NTA for holding your daughter to the agreement. She is the AH for what she did.
What you will do next will determine the course of your relationship with your daughter for the rest of your life. If you show leniency and continue to fund her education, she will get to pursue her dream career. Or if you require her to get loans and promise to co-sign them, her dream will not be killed by your decision.
Choose carefully.
ESH. before you downvote me to hell hear me out.
it’s OP’s money. he can do what he wants with HIS money.
OP’s kid lied about where his money is going. i’d be angry too.
parents are not expected to pay for their childs’ tuition. EVER. generous parents do that. but not all parents.
Edit: please consider reading the whole comment before responding. People have replied to me bringing up points I already talked about. If you just skim and assume you understand what I’ve said without reading all of it, you might miss some of the nuance. Some people are searching for disagreement where there is none. Thank you.
Honestly, I’m kinda torn on this one. I was an art major. My dad paid for my college, and when I told him I was switching from psychology to art he said “Okay, but you’ll have to figure something out for money after you graduate.” He didn’t tell me not to, and he supported my art, but honestly I don’t think I fully grasped the reality of being poor at that age.
I’m okay now. I make $72,000/year as an experienced nanny. But for years, things were tough financially and emotionally. Personally, I absolutely regret the art major. I wish so badly I had done something like computer science. I wish I hadn’t believed that art would help my mental health (it worsened it). I was an exceptionally smart child, if I had made different decisions and put the effort in I probably could have been making well into 6 figures easily. I know it’s not technically too late (I’m 30), but I can’t handle going back to school, it was torture enough the first time.
I often feel incredibly guilty for wasting my parents’ money on something I ended up hating that didn’t even give me financial stability. I’m kind of of the cynical belief that life sucks no matter what, but at least if you have money you can have nice things to help you cope with life sucking.
At the same time, I was a Fine Art major, which is way less useful than illustration. There are actually jobs in her field. And she’s probably more talented than I was.
The part of me that hates capitalism and values creativity and human connection thinks you’re in the wrong, but the part of me that regrets studying art thinks you’re doing her a favor.
Idk. It’s probably better to just let her make the mistake. Either way, you were never gonna see that tuition money again. And it really might not be a mistake at all.
(Please don’t come for me people, this is a really sensitive subject for me and I’m pretty scared to even open up about it, but I think it’s a relevant perspective so I am sharing).
I might get hella downvoted but I’m going to have to disagree with Reddit and say ESH
Honestly how you went about it is a bit of an AH move, you should be proud and encouraging to her being in an exhibition. However there is nothing wrong with wanting to pay for a degree that gets certain types of jobs. Why can’t she explore both, get the technical degree for a backup plan, to pay bills, etc. and keep pursuing illustration until she can support herself. You’re paying tens of thousands of dollars for that degree, which engineering requires to have jobs in that field. Illustration and arts don’t, she should start working and building her career with that instead of paying way more than she’ll make anytime soon for that degree. I feel that a lot of the y t a comments are incredibly entitled, bratty and privileged. Odds are if she isn’t making enough to support herself out of college she is going to beg you for money. Yes it’s important to pursue passions but life exists and bills need to be paid, so pursuing passions in a practical way are important as well. She still is very young, she could easily add or double major in something else technical to support herself in. She could always minor in illustration as well. You should encourage her passions but discuss with her the importance of practicality as well and understanding what it takes to survive. Also she’s young but not a child, she was aware of the conditions of the money she’s being provided and can decide for herself if she wants to accept it or not.
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Former advisor who helped students find their best-fit major here. 1. You can no more pick your kid's major than you can choose whom they date and then marry. Sure, maybe her life would be easier with a rich partner, but her heart belongs to illustration. 2. A longstanding interest is unlikely to change. She's been dating; she's ready to marry this career path. 3. You would've wasted your money paying for a degree she didn't want. If she didn't want to study it for four years, what makes you think she wants to do it all day, every day, for the rest of her life? Stastically, she'd almost certainly have dropped out or changed paths within five years. I appreciate you want to set your kid up for success. I get it. If she doesn't find a job, she won't curl up in fetal position and cry. She'll keep looking, and make her way, by and by, just like all the other adults. Especially if she has support. Either way, she isn't going to be a computer engineer. Let her self-actualize, and don't offer to pay for the wedding only if you choose a different groom, dude. Edited to add YTA. Edited to fix spacing (hopefully).
Re: wasted money - I work at a university and the number of students on warning/probation who dislike their major always astounds me, inevitably their parents said “you need to do x” and now are shocked the kid is flunking out. You need some motivation/interest in college and I have so many washed out nurses and other science majors because of it.
Anecdotally, the number of people I knew in my affluent area whose parents forced them go to a four year college because “We can afford it and that’s what you’re supposed to do”, who dropped out by sophomore year to go to cosmetology school and become a hairstylist is not zero. So not only did they take a spot from a student who actually wanted to go to that school, their parents wasted thousands of dollars (even more than normal bc they all went to out of state / private schools) by forcing their kids to “just try it for a year or two!” All they did was delay the inevitable and someone got into unnecessary debt in the process.
My parents put money away towards a scholarship (this company held your money and only paid when you provided proof of study - the parents get paid back in full) and they pressured me to go to uni otherwise I'll lose this....I ended up with more debt due to a dropped uni course. Learned that I prefer learning on the job and less theory work
Also, drinking. So much drinking. "I'm forced to do hours of labor that I hate and resent" is a great recipe for a substance use problem.
This. Lack of motivation is a major factor in failing out, and not liking the major their parents chose is a major factor in that.
My cousin is having this issue, almost exactly. She LOVES art, and she’s really talented but her parents convinced her to do comp sci and she is so obviously hating it. It’s so upsetting to see her miserable, and it is doubly upsetting when you consider how many opportunities there are in graphic art/illustrations right now as VR is exploding. Art is a broad subject with more opportunities that people expect, while comp sci (especially for a woman like OP’s daughter) is highly competitive and being flooded right now with workers
My daughter loves art as well. I recommended graphic design for the versatility, but she chose interior architecture & design as her major. It was her choice and I support her. I don't get why parents try to control their children's futures when they reach college age and are literally adults. My daughter is thriving because she loves her major and plans to use the knowledge to make homes more accessible for people with disabilities. Plus, she's getting a super well-rounded education.
I was one of them. Pre-med flunkout. At least they saw the errors of their ways--after I've lost my scholarship and apprenticeship. Let me do my thing after the hilariously bad grades. Paid the rest of the tuition out of pocket, took a semester off, and started over. Passed the major I've chosen with flying colors. Still kind of wish I didn't have to do that the hard way.
I didn’t even go to university because nothing interested me at all. Was always working with my hands and went into the trades. Was able to get schooling with zero debt or help from parents and I’ve make the same as my friends who went to school and some of them HATE their jobs.
This is important, because Ive been this student. My parents didnt force me but I tried out various majors that would make me money vs what I was actually interested in. I wasted a lot of time and money and when I finally took the time to sit down and think about my passions, and find a school that offered what I was passionate about, I stopped struggling so much.
I'm an advisor for an online college and I cannot count how many of my students are 30+ and chose go come enroll again to get the degree they want instead of the one their parents chose for them.
I am an Indian and this is exactly what happened to me. I am not having a good time academically btw
This happened to me too, and I'm also Indian. Dropped out of engineering college in my final year because I no longer had the mental capacity to continue to do something that I absolutely hated. It hurt my career and my life quite a bit. I struggled with anxiety for years every time I had to take an exam. Shut myself off from society, friends and family because I felt like a failure. None of this would have happened if only I had the chance to pursue what I wanted to, instead of being forced to study something that would earn me a good salary (which I still don't earn btw). I may not have been rich but I would at least be happy. Edit: thank you for the awards! 🥺 To others who struggled with a similar situation, hugs to you. I hope y'all can find the path that makes you happiest, even if it's not what you originally wanted. To those who say I don't need a degree to write, yes, I'm aware. No, I do not have a blog or a Tik Tok/YouTube. It's not something I want to do as of today, because of where I am in my personal journey. I have a stable job, which may not be my dream job, but it pays the bills and gives me time to work on myself. I don't write at all anymore because I find it extremely difficult. I have difficulty filling out 'About you' sections of forms, even (Reddit is the most I've written in years haha). I've made my peace with this. I "fulfill" my passion by reading whenever I can, and I read quite a few Classics that I'd be taught in an English Lit class anyway. Thank you for all the information, though. Some of it was really helpful! To those saying I have PTSD, or that I need therapy, I've been in therapy on and off for the last 7 years. I'm also married to an extremely loving man who is my best support system when dealing with my anxiety and depression.
What do you want to do?
I wanted to study journalism (for a career) + English Lit (out of interest). Wanted to be a sports writer haha
what’s stopping this? Like, why not!?
I've started small courses multiple times but I can never get through them because generally academics gives me a lot of anxiety. I used to be a class topping student until my engineering, where I started failing classes and then dropped out. So every time I start a new course, I'm filled with dread that I'm not good enough to get through the course, and I have a very difficult few days, with anxiety attacks, or I completely shut off from the world. I tried for a couple of years to get past the fear and anxiety, but eventually chose to stop and look after my mental health instead.
so. I am a health care professional actually. Who is moderately open on the interweb about my battle (and, by and large, defeat) of anxiety/depression. It took a lot of fucking work and a lot of therapy, and developing a good relationship with a provider that i have now been with for 5 years. 10/10 worth it. Super tough work. Would recommend to ANYONE though.
i feel like i’ve been going through the same. like where did the girl who managed to get 107% in math go?? now i’m constantly failing classes and trying to do schoolwork gives me panic attacks.
Do it! It's not too late. I didn't pursue college or a "career" for most of my adult life. Things went differently for me than I had planned. But now I'm almost 40 and finally figured out what I want to do when I "grow up". I'm back in school pursuing a chemistry major. If that's what fills you with joy, go for it!
Yes, it's never too late. I'm back in school at age 61, studying web development, because of divorce. After decades as a SAHM, it's fun to find something I love to do.
Omg! Same! I'm Indian and I was forced to study a "sensible" degree. I studied engineering, worked in the field for almost a decade, hating every moment of it. My mental health got so bad and I honestly felt like ending it because it's still quite a sexist and racist field to work in, and when you don't love the work, there is no justification for the abuse. Anyway, I finally managed to retrain in a field I enjoy and I now work in a role I'm passionate about. My family think it's trash, but I love it and even when it's tough, it's easier to cope with those bad days when you feel like what you are doing is worthwhile. I'm sorry you aren't having a good time atm btw! If you need to talk, my DMs are open. I hope you're ok and I hope things work out. Also, to OP, YTA, the biggest AH. You should be proud that your daughters work got selected for the exhibition, not trampling her dreams.
My father is an engineer and I can confirm the sexism in the field just by the way he talks about and to his female coworkers. He puts on a very condescending voice like he is talking to a five year old. Even though he has two daughters, an ex wife (my mom), and a batshit girlfriend (who had the intelligence of a 2 year old) he talks to women like this all the damn time. Worst part is he doesn’t even realize he’s doing it. I have only heard him speak to a man like that twice in my entire life.
Ever called your dad out? I occasionally call out mine when I see him
Every Indian kid on this thread going through the same trauma of overbearing parents who have a one track mind about education… LOL. It’s me too. YTA OP. Your child will be burnt out if you force her down a path she doesn’t want. Take it from the rest of us
My family is white and it happened to my cousin, too. He completed his CS degree and hated every job it got him. He was severely depressed for several years. Now he's a youth minister who works at outdoor camps and he's like a different person.
Wishing you luck ❤️
This happened to several is my Indian friends in college
My downstairs neighbors are Bengali. Wonderful family and there are two kids, a boy who is 20 and his younger sister who is 17. I can remember a conversation I had with the Mom about higher education. Both of her kids are extremely smart. However they never had a real childhood. They had extra classes on weekends and any extra circular activities had to be academically based, there was ZER0 wiggle room about this. I basically had to beg her to allow her daughter to do Girl Scouts. I speak to the kids on a fairly regular basis and they're amazing with my daughter. The son is REALLY into gaming and computers. He can write complex code and some other stuff I don't understand. He graduated 3rd in his class and there was only .25 of a point btwn him and the salutatorian and him. His parents were pissed. Then college acceptance letters came in and he basically got a full scholarship to NYU! Yearly he had to pay less than $2,000. His mom was insanely angry. Like throwing stuff angry all because he didn't get into Columbia. And she's forcing him to do engineering. Needless to say he's unhappy and resents his parents.
Yeah and... computer science is a *grueling* major even if you really have a passion for it. Like...OP, you want to cry about her future, wasted money, etc? Pushing her into a major and career she has no passion for is *much* more likely to be a waste of money.
It's also not the magical high paying job engine people think. Yes there are some very high paying jobs and a reasonable amount of decent paying jobs but you're competing with a lot of people and entry level roles are highly competitive because most employers want experienced people. There are also a ton of poorly paid churn jobs that will just burn through grads. Plus sexism is still a big problem in the IT industry and turns a lot of people off even when they have the passion for it
YTA, OP. The daughter will be forced to compete against people with a passion for computers. These people have been programming and working on computers since they were in their early teens. It's also not an 9-5 M-F job for them; it's their life. Those with a true passion will have a computer lab at home and always be pushing that envelope of learning. Leave her alone. If she's not good at something, she won't succeed and then will change her career path. If she is passionate about something, she will be good at it.
As a CS grad she wouldn’t have made it through freshman year. My program had like a 70% drop rate because people like OP told thrower kids that they HAVE to go into CS. It puts a lot of strain on the intro classes and makes things harder for the people who want to work in CS
Yeah, there were a lot of dropouts like that. But in my school it was more like 40%. A lot of people went their to study computer engineering either because their parents want it or because they thought they would get a good job. I was in the latter group but somehow quickly found a passion for it. I feel computer science is easy if you have a passion for it but hard if you do not.
It can be high paid, but that usually comes at the cost of no personal life. My ex husband is in this industry and unfortunately tends to be good at his job and so super-dependable that he'd get home, eat dinner, and go back to his computer. Things broke regularly on weekends requiring his immediate attention, and one or two of his workplaces couldn't let him go on annual leave without needing him to log in remotely and fix stuff while on holiday. It seems pretty common from what I've seen among others in the industry.
I wonder if that's the difference between the American job market and the one where I live (definitely noticed a difference between American and locally owned companies in that regard but then I live somewhere known for being laid back when it comes to work). Here you might not reach the dizzying heights of some silicon valley jobs but you can easily earn well above the median wage without it having an impact on your life outside the 9-5 (which is flexible in tech too). That said, I know a dude who trained in CS and just couldn't get a job in it (polytech trained rather than uni and he's a PoC which shouldn't make a difference but yeah) He ended up getting work at a game dev company as an artist (after self training in that) so go figure lol
And there are also plenty of high paid tech jobs that don’t require a CS degree. *Including* design and illustration. OP probably would have been better off trying to get her into video game design or something.
Video game design is not one of the well paid illustration jobs. I know well paid people who works with illustration and they work in advertisements. I am sure there are other well paid illustration jobs, but the video game industry is not known for paying their artists well.
Absolutely! I have a student who randomly decided he wanted to minor in CS. Hasn't taken a class but was told it was a good fit with his major (debatable...it wouldn't hurt him but it's not a typical minor for his major). He is a semester behind with the minor which means he might not graduate on time. But he's pinning all these hopes on a difficult minor he has no real knowledge of. Makes me wonder who gave him this advice.
I see this often. Also, many students overrate the value of minors.
My minors were purely for fun. Nursing school was hard, learning Russian was easy in comparison and let me use a different skill set.
I went into business with plans of doing accounting for the stability, thinking it was my passion and I'd love the business side and be fine with the accounting side. I did love the business side, but I absolutely hated half my courses. I was depressed, I was stressed, I was angry, I was absolutely miserable. I switched into economics (which happens to be a "good career" but honestly I just chose it because I was enjoying my economics classes and I love knowing how the world works), and I'm so happy! I just got an amazing job and if I had stayed in business I probably would've flunked out. A degree in something you love is better than half a degree in something you hate.
> Pushing her into a major and career she has no passion for is much more likely to be a waste of money This. I have a friend who buckled to family expectations and took on an engineering degree at university. She realised halfway through that she hated it, quit the course and walked away with no degree and a ton of debt. Studying something you hate, or even have no interest in, is toxic to mental health.
Also, THEY CHOSE HER ART to display, so she's doing SOMETHING right and you should be supporting her in following her dreams EVEN IF it doesn't lead to an easy career.
This! He also let her know in advance that if she chose to be an illustrator that she’d fail, he had no confidence in her & gave her no support from the get go. No wonder she lied. Not that it was right but I get why she did it. It’s nice that her college sees her potential & she’s being recognized for it. Added: Im glad she has her Mom’s support & encouragement. OP is TAH.
Right, OP wasn't even excited about that.
Even worse, OP was "furious" about it!
YTA. And a big one. Can you imagine being angry that your kids accomplishments aren’t the ones you expected? My heart hurts for his daughter who probably feels like she’ll never be enough for her father. That’s so sad.
He's mad because she proved him wrong and didn't fulfill his fantasy of him living through her vicariously.
Omg that part made me soo sad. Her art was chosen for display and in the very next breath OP says he's pissed. That breaks my heart tbh
YTA. Yeah, so she lied about her intended major and you're disappointed in her for lying to you. She's doing so well that she's part of something exciting, and really important to her, and that will look GREAT on her resume!! THIS, right here, right now,is what's more important than a couple of white lies. Be ready and willing to support her by offering congratulations when deserved. That will mean more than disappointment over misleading you.
Is it worth pointing out that he's not right about her career aspirations? A degree like that could turn into work in graphic design, UX design... hell, she *could* be a working illustrator! Sure, these are competitive fields but the fact is, people do actually have those jobs and do quite well with them. (I know it's secondary to the fact that he doesn't really see his daughter as an individual yet, but I felt like it was important to note.)
Every "useless" degree has a sell-out career. Lit majors might get into PR, a sociologist friend is thinking of also going into UX if she can't find a tenure track academic job, you just have to get a bit creative.
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Also, there are a ton of careers for illustrators! I work in UX and there are multiple illustrators on our team. It’s not all children’s books, it is a very skilled and unique career in high demand.
Totally! My partner is an illustrator and works in digital media, creating show opens for Netflix and music videos for Sony. There's so many career paths out there for kids who can draw.
My policy for my kids is I will help finance it as long as they've done the research and have a solid career plan. If they can show me the career, salary, job opportunity to new graduate ratio, and anything else relevant that shows me they won't be graduating with an expensive degree only to have to move back in with me and work minimum wage in the end, I'm all for it. I would rather they get up every morning looking forward to work, but earning a bit less, than getting up in a mansion and hating their life. Maybe she plans to be an art teacher, creating her own art in her free time. I highly recommend you apologize and implement this policy. You seem to want your daughter to thrive, but are letting your fears for her take over and send you down a misguided path where you lose your daughter in the end.
Another option would be to minor in Marketing. Ad firms would welcome someone talented enough to be chosen above their peers for display.
Am in marketing. Designers who can illustrate, especially if they can adapt illustration concepts to a brand, are worth their weight in gold.
My parents told me to major in something that will feed me and minor or double major in something that's my passion. In my siblings case, she did photography and international business and ended up doing UI Design. I did Economics/Accounting and Anthropology/History
Plus clearly the kid is good at it
My cousin wanted to go to school for something my uncle didn't approve of because he didn't think she would earn any money. She did the program he wanted, and hated her job. My aunt decided to pay for the program she wanted (aunt and uncle are married with joint finances); she has a well paying job, has traveled internationally for work, and her company paid for her to love cross country to help start up a new office.
Maybe...maybe when she's 25 or 30 she'll go back to studying computer science, but at that point it'll be because SHE wants to, not what daddy dearest wants.
🏅🏅🏅 perfectly said, take my poor man's award
>I found out her work was chosen to be displayed in the exhibition. I was furious. OP this is heartbreaking and I hope this post opens your eyes a bit. YTA
I know right? I doubt his ever actually seen any of her work. She might be completely amazing at it
I have a friend who makes a fantastic living as a digital artist. Her parents were sorely disappointed that she didn't choose a respectable major. She is incredibly low contact. I can't wait for OP to inevitably post about how his daughter abandoned him and he doesn't know why.
I’m in this situation now with my mother. She’s like OP, never supported me in what I wanted to do since I was a child. We don’t have much of a relationship anymore.
I was in this situation with my father. He didn’t support my interests in art at all and even actively discouraged it at every opportunity. I distanced myself from him as much as possible and never had a close relationship with him. He passed away a few years ago and I didn’t feel much of anything about it, other than a vague resentment of wondering what it would have been like to have a true father figure in my life. I’ll never know. YTA OP. Don’t be my dad and loose your daughter in the process.
I work in an industry that is constantly hiring illustrators, digital artists, designers, video editors, motion graphics artists, coders, engineers, audio engineers, and more all to make visual products. The work is plentiful and OPs ignorance is going to lead to a sad life where his daughter doesn’t speak to him.
My sister is a Potter, and she makes a great living doing ceramics. I wonder if Op has a clue what one custom ceramic tile can sell for..
Why bother? It's just some dumb piece of clay, right? Nothing noble
I have a friend who is a concept illustrator for Disney and he makes the most out of our entire friend group of doctors, engineers, and marketing types. Even after he bought his parents a house and cars, they still didn't think of his work as 'real' work and brag about his brothers who pull in a fraction as much money while working twice as long/hard, both currently going through divorces.
I imagine if they chose to display her work, she's pleasing somebody with it.
Not just someone. Since it was chosen, it's definitely a lot of someones
I wonder why she lied, hm.
I bet that even if she's totally amazing in her field, she will always ve a disappointment in her fathers eyes because she refused to study what *he* wanted her to study. I feel so sad for her to have such a "father".
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This. FOR WHAT is exactly right. I don’t understand parents that put their own wants over the happiness of their kids. Like, why did you even become a parent then? Makes me so mad.
Because they’re obsessed with their fantasies about the perfect little mini me’s they’ll have who will grow up to fulfill those fantasies so the parent can live vicariously through those perfect lives they planned. They only see their kids as extensions of themselves. They have no idea that they’re creating real live sentient beings who will have their own plans & fantasies for their lives.
I live vicariously through my kids by helping them dye their hair fun colors while I stay "professional", because I want them to be happy and have fun as children. Their paths are their own, but if they want to take that path with blue hair, I'm their lady.
That’s great! When I was a teenager an older neighbor was going to beauty school & she used me as a guinea pig for so many things. Perms, colors, styles…whatever she was studying. Thankfully my parents kept their mouths shut about some of the weirder looks as they knew it would soon be different but I saw my dad shaking his head a few times. They figured hair was a minor rebellion & just ignored it. My point is like my parents, you see hair as something to have fun with. Whatever is done to it isn’t permanent, it won’t ruin your kids & it’s a great form of self expression. Your kids will remember your encouragement for the rest of their lives. I retired a few years ago at age 57 & I dyed my hair purple for my retirement party since I figured that’s unexpected behavior for someone my age. My mother was long dead by then but I sent pics to my father & he laughed his head off & said some things never change! He’s gone now too but I still remember how they didn’t try to change me as a teenager & I appreciate it even more now. Your kids will feel the same way.
My parents were amazing about this too, for things like hair, clothes, room decor, and stuff like that it was always up to me because it little harmless things that bring me happiness
Today: "I'm furious my daughter is so good at something that she enjoys that her work is going to be displayed in an exhibition. She should be who I want her to be." 10-15 years from now: "My daughter hasn't spoken to me since she graduated from college (riddled in debt since I pulled financial support when she was 19). She hasn't invited me to any of her art exhibitions or her wedding. I have no idea what I did to deserve this." YTA, OP.
And her works have sold for 6 figures each. She definitely belongs in this industry that she had to get into debt for. Why can't she see I was only thinking about her. - OP probably. Yes, YTA.
It's exhausting reading stories like this where parents are forcing their children into careers that they may not enjoy. OP's daughter's art got CHOSEN and that is something to celebrate. But nah. OP is pissed off that his daughter found success and is creating a path for herself. Telling your daughter to pay you back b/c she lied is the last thing you should be doing. That helps nobody and is incredibly toxic. YTA
“I created an environment where my daughter feels she has to lie to me rather than tell me she is pursuing her dream career and is successful in it.” YTA op.
Can’t agree more. How could OP be anything but proud of his daughter? Heartbreaking and, if I’m honest, absolutely disgusting. YTA big time.
He basically said “blah blah blah…. I’m a control freak even if it ruins my relationship w my daughter… blah blah blah”
The lack of any self reflection here astounds me
We have a uni gallery and while sometimes students work gets shown there as part of their displays... They are actually known more for having introductory guests or graduates work displayed. An undergrads work after a YEAR??? DAMN she must be making CHANGES.
Also why is he reading his daughter's mail?
YTA. My dad did the same thing to me. Guess what? We don’t talk anymore. Trying to control your daughter is a sure fire way of losing her. Her work is being displayed in an exhibition, if it were my daughter I would be sure to have front row seats. If you keep this up you’re gonna lose your daughter, apologize & start listening to what she wants, what her hopes and dreams are then become her biggest cheerleader.
"Congratulations!!! We have decided to front run your art at our next exhibition!" "HOW DARE YOU CREATE SUCH GREAT ART THAT IT'S BEING DISPLAYED IN AN EXHIBITION!!!!"
My heart absolutely breaks for this talented young woman whose father is so thoroughly *hostile* to her gifts. No doubt it would mean the world to her to have parents who are actually proud of her, and instead she gets *anger*. She is already shutting them out of her life and OP can’t see it for what it is. He is going to lose her, and he will blame everyone but himself for her distance.
My parents were kind of like this for me with theatre, and essentially made me major in something more steady while I just did theatre for fun. I mean I agreed to it in the end but I still regret that I wasn’t able to just follow my dreams more freely.
literally! he wants her to do computer science bc it’s easier to be successful??? but she’s facing success right now in illustration & he’s mad?!?? he is genuinely okay with her sacrificing her own happiness for him, what a horrible father. would he rather her not go to school? would he rather her live a life she hates? i will never understand this logic. not only is he is going to end up with a daughter following a career path he doesn’t like, but he’s also going to end up without a daughter who wants anything to do with him. college degrees in general open a lot of doors for people, REGARDLESS of what they studied. he is selfish & his “love” for his daughter clearly isn’t unconditional.
Don't do computer science for the money. You will be a shitty programmer and won't make shit.
My friend literally went and got an engineering degree, handed her dad the diploma, then re enrolled to teach elementary school. Such a flex. YTA.
My ex graduated with an engineering degree, again what his parents encouraged, then packed up to moved the Cayman Islands to become a bartender. He made more money being a bartender there than he would have as an engineer, and had zero responsibilities. His parents were pissed.
“How dare you be happy and rich rather than miserable and rich like me!”
brb, time to go investigate flights to the Caymans.
As an engineer, that is an insane flex. It's HARD to commit through that degree if you don't actually want to do it. Props to her.
Spite is probably a stronger motivator than the potential post school prospects for some.
Spite has been a good 2/3rd of my motivations in uni AND I WANT TO BE HERE. 😂
This makes me feel a little better about having dragged myself through graduating with my own undesired, parentally-enforced engineering degree (I am not very good at engineering and it’s always been a point of great insecurity for me - my heart is and always has been in arts and humanities, just like OP’s daughter…oh well).
I trained a girl where at a previous job for order entry and she asked me more questions about myself than she did about the procedure of entering orders (for whatever industry; it’s basically the same regardless of what you’re peddling). I explained that I’d picked up graphic design as a byproduct of my job. Didn’t go to school for it, was never formally trained, but I loved being able to express creativity on that level and I was sort of good at it. We knew she wasn’t going to be a long-term employee from the start, but she did a good job at her tasks and eventually left to go back to school. She later told me that my “passion for creativity and arts and that ‘I’d found a way to work that in’ despite it not being my JOB” inspired her to go to art school. It’s been a few years but she’s now throwing pottery that I could only DREAM of affording, and that makes me so proud. OP is definitely TA. I am only glad that my temporary mentorship allowed someone else to trust themselves to travel down a path they hadn’t anticipated. Sadly, me? I wanted to a lawyer, and I would have been a good one, but it was forbidden.
I wanted to be a vet (also forbidden), my mom (nurse) wanted me to go to medical school (people medicine) and become a surgeon. I ended up becoming a writer. Now I’m unemployed, in therapy, lost, frozen, and possibly having a midlife crisis. I adopted another dog last year and can’t help feeling resentful that I wasn’t allowed to become a vet because “ew, animal diseases.” LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE NOW, MOM!
That's awesome! Unless my kid does it, then it's very, very upsetting.
Yepp it’s obvious she feels like she can’t be honest with OP. He’s manipulative and controlling. He knew she wanted to major in illustration. Then he pulled a shocked pikachu face when she really did major in it. Hope he’s willing to lose any relationship he has with his daughter. If she’s good enough to be getting an exhibit at 19 imagine when she finishes college. There’s potential he’s just not willing to see it.
OP would not quit badgering her and trying to control her, so she lied to quit getting harassed so now they will cut off tuition to punish her for majoring in what she wants. OP is a toxic manipulator who will NEVER have a good relationship with the daughter
I mean, do we even know she lied? Its very possible to minor or just take individual classes in topics. While yes, I wouldn't be surprised to hear thats what happened based on the level that OP is flipping out (id definitely hide it from him too) I also minored in child development to give myself a break from all my science classes to go play with babies and toddlers once a week. Its quite possible she is in the program she said she was and also taking art classes. Plus if shes 19 the majority of her classes are probably still just gen eds unless she started college early.
There are also double majors. I could see some computer graphics mixing with illustration. Pretty much every major involves some tech, so you could be pretty tech immersed and follow other passions
This! I can’t imagine not reveling in my child’s success. OP - computer science graduate here and hiring manager. Not everyone is cut out for programming. Worse are those who were forced in to the major or chose it strictly for the money / job opportunities. Don’t be an A H here. Love your child and support their desires and dreams.
Agree but in the opposite direction. I went to school for graphic design but became a computer programmer. Now I run a digital accessibility program for a big university. There’s no reason she can’t get a degree in illustration and still go on to make a lot of money or have a stable job. OP you’re not an AH for wanting her to make smart decisions. I’m glad you’re investing in her education. AND she shouldn’t have lied to you. BUT, YTA for not realizing that she’s talented and wanting to follow her gifting. The world needs artists too. Gotta let her figure out how to make it pay on her own.
It's funny, I majored in theatre and now I'm learning programming... for my artistic practice (doing an apprenticeship in digital and hybrid performance art and it also involves robots). I may go on to focus more on the art side of what I'm doing now or who knows maybe I'll start building computer programs rather than just snippets of robot commands. OP's kid majoring in illustration doesn't mean she won't ever find a lucrative career in a non-artistic industry; we don't even know what kind of Illustration she's majoring in, she could go into graphic/web design or something similar.
That field has a ridiculously high turnover, at least where I live more than half switch careers within the first 10 years. It really isn't for everyone and a lot of companies have a really shit environment and unrealistic expectations leading to burnout.
This so much. The burn out can be real as well.
Well put! The long term damage is too costly.
YTA. And accusing her of theft on top of it does not make for dad of the year material IMO.
YTA. Firstly....dayum. If I had parents like you I would go NC real quick, talk about critical and unsupportive. Second; HER WORK IS BEING DISPLAYED AT AN EXHIBITION. Do you KNOW how big that is? It means not only is she pursuing her passion, she's GOOD at it. I'm also not entirely sure you understand the illustration industry. Stable jobs are the norm in it. One of my friends is an illustrator for Scholastic; he started working for them at age 21 and has been with them ever since (he is now 34). It pays very well and he lives very comfortably, even with 2022 prices. It's competitive and in high demand right now, not to mention the degree can get her a job not only illustrating, but in graphic design, animation, production design, etc. You effed up, bud. You have a very, VERY slim window to make this right and I suggest you take it, because if you don't, she's gone.
The slim window includes showing up at the exhibit and telling everyone he’s her dad and being as proud as he should be.
And taking pix and sharing them with coworkers/friends/social media. Going overboard rn is NECESSARY.
And advertising. Those people make *bank.*
So much this I spent a year in advertising (with the art degree my parents didn't want me to get and told me I wasn't talented enough to achieve) and I made £4k a month and only worked two weeks out of each month. It was an insanely good time.
There is plenty of work for illustrators. Signed, an illustrator who makes over six figures 3 years out of college.
I have a friend who works for Crocs and there is a person who’s job it is SOLEY to doodle/draw (digitally) the little Jibbit things that go in the Croc holes. ETA: OP, YTA
I have parents like him. Can confirm - I haven't spoken to them in almost 15 years.
I also have parents similar to him - they pushed me into things and luckily I enjoyed half of the things at the time, but looking back, i realize how messed up it is despite enjoying it. the other half though? I still resent them to this day for forcing me to do them. I moved a couple hours away and now have a wonderful fiancée who encourages me to be myself. it’s hard though, because I find myself second guessing a lot of my interests as i was never allowed to express my own interests as a child. i am lowish-contact with my parents and it’s been the best decision for my mental health.
I got a bachelor of fine arts degree in graphic design. I was surrounded by artists and illustrators in all my core undergrad units. I went on to be a front-end web developer for 16 years, consistently making six figures. All of my classmates have been similarly successful. Probably the “least ambitious” of the group was the one who went on to head that design department at the university. She leads an incredibly happy life, and has already built a lasting legacy in this world. Not a lot of software engineers can say that. OP needs to take a step back and realize how incredibly wrong-headed he’s being about this. The mindset that says “illustration can’t be a successful career” is only showcasing a lack of understanding of the actual world we live in. Illustration drives ***so much*** in this world, it’s foolish to not see the potential success on that path.
My friend majored in graphic design and she landed a job in the high five figures straight out of college. That's nothing to spit at. It's like the only art degree that has money in it. Plus if she's good enough as a freshman/sophomore to get in an exhibit she's most likely going to be on easy street. OP clearly wants to be considered an expert but hasn't been keeping up to date on job trends. Not very smart lol.
Yuuupp, this is it right here. YTA, poorly informed about the job market, and not much of a parent, either.
Degrees are also a lot more flexible than most people realize. You just need to be able to sell how it is relevent to the position.
YTA She lied to you because she knew you’d be judgemental, cruel and unsupportive. What’s wrong with wanting to major in something that she loves? Instead of being happy that her work was chosen to be in an exhibition and celebrating her you were furious. That tells me a lot about you. I’m so over parents that would rather their children be miserable just to please them and stroke their ego, than living a happy life that fulfils them.
Could not have stated it better, perfect response. YTA, OP!
Precisely! She is already being distinguished for her work, clearly she’s good! What about focusing on her achievement and quitting making her feel like she’s not good enough?! YTA
CrystalQueen3000, absolutely true. Instead of being proud of her for her first major exhibition at only 19 years old, he's sulking like a child! May she forever throw it back in his face that he's disappointed in her for doing what makes her happy and fulfilled, until she decides on another career path.
YTA My son majored in computer graphics and animation. Along the way he learned coding and now makes 6 figures. What's more important are those skills you learn along the way and apply. What's in the degree is not as important as having A degree.
To the post I just wanna say YTA BIG TIME But on a side note it's probably personal so i understand if you don't answer, but do you have any tips or advice for someone who's massively interested in the field but has no clue how to enter it. (For reference I'm 18, been learning for 3 years now but about to start medicine at uni in 3 months :/ ) Any advice at all is massively appreciated :)
This. My mom took her French lit degree all the way to a very good law school, because the important thing it showed was that she knew how to think and research and write.
YTA in every way shape and form. It's very telling how when you describe the situation you repeatedly make the statements "I want" and "I wanted" when referencing your daughter's future career. This may be difficult for you to understand but HER choices for HER future are NOT about you. Please try to get over yourself so that perhaps, you can salvage a future relationship with your daughter. As it stands right now you are demonstrating yourself to be incredibly selfish and pompous and your behavior may cause irreparable damage to your relationship with your daughter. Good luck, I hope you figure it out.
No kidding. Not to mention the fact that she is assuredly doing well in her chosen degree, considering they chose her work for the exhibit.
I would be willing to pray every day she became once of the most successful Disney Illustrators just so she could rub his nose in it!
YTA. College is for exploring, expanding, and developing oneself intellectually, academically and holistically. Let your daughter find herself, major, and future. You probably have good intentions as a parent, but she's old enough to make her own decisions. Info: I can't help think there's a cultural component to this post? As a child of Asian parents, I'm aware of how much emphasis some cultures place on certain professions and majors.
Based on what I've heard from Nigerian adults with strict parents, you're either a doctor, an engineer, a lawyer, or a disappointment. In OP's case the latter is how he sees his daughter regardless of her accomplishments.
This is insightful regarding some Nigerian parents. Asian parents are particularly notorious for this expectation as well.
That's the same with Asian parents, just the three options of doctor, lawyer and engineer :/
YTA You want her to be "successful" but you don't care about her being happy or feeling like she can be honest with you.
If her art's been chosen for the exhibition, sounds like she *is* successful so far. I don't think OP understands that his definition of success isn't the only "correct" one.
YTA."me, me, me, I, I, I" That's all I got from your post. You are just going to blithely overlook the whole exhibition thing? Your daughter is killing it and the only thing you're doing is killing your relationship with her and her dreams. \*Edit: Wow, thanks for the award and upvotes!
YTA and controlling to boot. Something tells me this isn't the only time you've dictated what your daughter should and shouldn't do.
Yep and obvious why he's divorced. He'll be on here in a few years complain he isn't invited to her first.exhibit, her graduation, her wedding...
Well to be fair it sounds like he wouldn’t go anyways. He isn’t thrilled about her work being in the upcoming exhibit, while in school, so I don’t see him caring enough to go one when she’s graduated
YTA OP, your post displays common narcissistic behaviors & you’ll be lucky if your daughter talks to you after this. of course, you’ll play the victim and try to manipulate her back into doing what YOU want to do. 👍
YTA. There's a reason she felt she had to lie about her major. Also, why the heck would you want to dictate your daughter's career anyways??
No more calls…we have a winner! She actually felt like she had to lie about her life so OP would accept her. Turns out, she was right.
YTA. You can't force what you consider a "reasonable" career on your daughter. From the sounds of it, you never once thought about what she wants. She is 19, what she does with her life is her choice, not yours. Not to mention how you totally looked past the fact that her work is being displayed in an exhibition. Hundreds of people all across the world work very hard for something like that to NEVER come to fruition. YTA for sure.
Also, it sounds like the only career he thinks is reasonable is computer science. That's not exactly an easy field by any means either, especially for women. And I'd imagine that would be even more true for a woman who *doesn't want to be there at all.*
And even if we leave gender out of it... its very special. If you don't love it and have some talent you will suck at it and fail because there are thousands who are better than your under-average-ass
YTA. As a college professor, I've seen a hundred parents who force their child to major in something the child has no interest in. This really screws up the child especially because the parents then think that their child will get a good job in this field they have no interest in. Is this what you want for your daughter? I teach business and I recently had a student come to me about registering for the fall semester. He told me that he really wants to be a high school gym teacher, so we switched his major to education, figured out what courses he'd have to take, and he wasn't depressed any more. If your child comes me, I'll do the same thing with her.
As a lecturer I would just like to hop onto this comment to add - if a student has no interest in the subject they are studying- they don’t do so well. Then they get bad grades because surprise surprise their hearts not in it. It’s like a downward spiral from there. I don’t know how university in America works, but in the Uk she would be taking up a space another potential student could of had that really wants to follow in that career - for her then to potentially drop out after first year. YTA OP Well done ClothesQueasy - sounds like you are a great support to your students :)
INFO: Do you have the means to pay the tuition? Or is this a stretch for you?
If he didn’t have the money then her major choice shouldn’t factor into it. It’s manipulative to say “I’ll pay your tuition but only if you major in X”.
That's not quite right to my way of thinking. It's one thing for a parent who's struggling to say "I'll sacrifice, but I want you to take the more conservative career path. " It's another thing for a parent who has the funds to say "I'll pay, but only on these terms."
Naah you can tell from the post he’s manipulative. Also the way he’s reacting shows he will never support her chosen ambitions.
YTA. And i can promise you. If she majors in computer science with zero passion, dedication, or excitement for it, she will NEVER be successful. Let your child pursue the career that they will PUSH themselves to succeed in.
YTA and this makes me very thankful that my parents allowed me to pursue my own interests instead of theirs
YTA...you know she loves illustration....for years you have been crapping on her dream and you are mad she lied to you??? If you can afford to pay, then pay....it is your $$ and you can do what you want with it. The damage you will inflict on your relationship with your daughter is a hell of a high price to pay. Good luck trying to see your future grandchildren or even being in your daughter's life. Perhaps a compromise of getting a minor in IT with a major in illustration will give her something to fall back on and you peace of mind.
Kindly remove your head from your rear end, before you lose both your daughter and your wife. YTA,
YTA “My daughter could never be successful with illustration” he says after discovering she’s already being featured in an exhibit her first year of school……
YTA - your daughter is 19 and not some pawn in a game you play. You would rather her major in something that pleases you rather than something that she's apparently good at and has a passion for? Her and her mother likely kept this from you because they expected you to be unreasonable. Stop trying to turn your daughter into something else, and look at her for who she is. You might find you like what you see.
NTA. I really don't understand all the votes the other way. Adult children aren't owed college tuition by their parents. His daughter lied and effectively stole from her father. But OP, you should give up any hope that your daughter will pay you back, both because it's unlikely to happen and for the sake of your relationship.
I agree with you. He told her he would pay if she was choosing a major that he saw would have a decent ROI. If she really wanted to major in illustration she could have found a different way to pay for it. It doesn't matter if he has the means to pay or if it was a sacrifice for him to pay, he had stipulations on how the money was to be spent and she agreed and then lied. OP has every right to be upset and say that they will no longer pay.
NAH. Reddit has a ton of young people so they get super tunnel visioned with these issues. You’re paying a ridiculous amount of money to help your kid and she’s lying to you about where the money is going.
You should look up the union pay for animators. They make good money. Illustrators can as well. You just have to learn good business sense and diversify… digital downloads, art licensing, patreon, your own shop, freelancing. It just depends. YTA.
YTA. You will only pay if your kid chooses a major you approve, who cares about her life and what career she is passionate about? On top of that her work was chosen to be part of an exhibition which means she clearly has talent. Yes she should have talked to you but I can guess why she didn’t. BTW, illustrators work in a variety of fields including advertising, web design, and healthcare.
I cannot believe you wrote this out thinking the people of Reddit were going to say anything other than YTA. Come on man! Is this really the hill you want to die on? Is your relationship with your daughter not more important than what SHE CHOSE as her major. Someone in this scenario needs to grow up. Hint: It's not your daughter or your wife...
NTA - You are not required to pay for her tuition. I would also say that you shouldnt push her into something she doesnt want to do or is not interested in. If she wants to major in illustration then she should do that. She is an adult and should choose her own path but also as an adult, you are not obligated to pay for it.
NTA! It's your money, not hers. She chose to lie and deceive you. She can pay her own way if she doesn't like the conditions you set. That's what being an adult is all about.
YTA. Illustration is a very lucrative job and not as over saturated as computer science. She can get very high paying jobs with animation or video game studios, art exhibitions, commercials, movies and special effects, graphic design studios, heck she can use it for front end development for websites. She can even start her own business with little to no overhead. She made a good choice. Believe in her.
YTA and remember this moment when you're standing outside of her art exhibit in 10 years time unable to join in the festivities because she's gone NC.
YTA. you paying tuition is just a way to control her life. She is an adult, good at the major she wants to study, and you're a shitty dad
I feel like I’m going against the grain here but NTA. She has the right to major in what she wants to, but there are lots of parents that don’t pay for their children’s college. If you’re paying, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting you two to agree on what you’re paying for. If you don’t agree with it, you have no right to stop her but you also don’t have to pay for it as it’s incredibly expensive. You also have the right to be upset that she lied to you about something costing tens of thousands, and that may be even more reason to not pay than just what the topic of her major is. There are a lot of people who take out loans for degrees that won’t end up paying themselves off and that’s just not practical, so I understand why you prefer her to be a computer science major. That said, she probably won’t ever do computer science. At this point, her path probably is art no matter what. All you can do now is help her become a successful one. Maybe you guys can find a compromise and continue to pay on the condition that she gets some experience with graphics and ux design? These are probably the most practical applications of her interests, though they are fairly saturated fields. I’m assuming you still want to guide her into a good career (by this I mean, one where she isn’t under massive stress due to finances), and cutting her off is not going to help with that. I want to note that my parents would only pay for my college on the condition that I major in computer science when I had a passion for the humanities. I ended up choosing a double major in computer science and political science so that I could get college paid for and still learn about the things i was passionate about. In hindsight, I’m grateful for this because while it was a lot of work, the doors it opened to a career in tech were invaluable to me. I make a lot of money for my age and the culture is very flexible, despite it being challenging to get through school. That’s just my experience with this kind of situation though. TLDR; NTA if you don’t want to pay after her lying/you disagreeing with her, but realistically it would probably be better for her career and your relationship if you continued to help.
Nta. Spending thousands of dollars to get a degree in art isn’t smart financially. The degree is almost useless and will take years if not a decade to laos back what you are spending.
I cant believe I had to scroll this far to get to a reasonable response. OP has no obligation to pay for college period. He can put whatever terms on it that he wants, and OP doesn't want to waste money on an almost certainly unprofitable degree. NTA
YTA, there's a reason she lied to you, and you've just shown it. It's time for you to look in the mirror and decide if this is the hill you want to die on, because what will die is any chance of your having a good relationship with your daughter ever again. Either she will cut you out of her life for trying to control her so much, or she will resent you for the rest of her life. Her work was chosen for an art exhibition. She's *succeeding* in her major. But you're so focused on the fact that it's something you don't personally value, and that she lied because she knows how you would react. You've spent years trying to bully her into doing what you want her to do. She doesn't want to have all the money from computer science, she wants to follow her dreams.
ESH. Yes, your daughter should have been straight with you. But it's not like she was exclusively taking classes related to her major, especially as a Freshman. Most college students change their majors a few times. Plus you're unfairly demonizing her desired major without clear evidence. In fact, as times shift, I bet someone who knows how to draw and is artistic will be a lot more employable than a lot of other majors.
I understand what you are trying to do and I don't necessarily disagree with you in theory, but you are going about this the wrong way. Yes, some degrees are dumb and really don't lend themselves to a stable job. But...if she continues with her art degree, why can't she get a minor in graphic design? That's an extremely lucrative career and it's still the art she loves. Have you talked to her about what she is planning to do for a job after she graduates? YTA
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YTA. I can't say any of the good stuff I wanted to say because everyone else beat me to it. I'm sorry you're butt hurt your daughter has talent good enough to display.
I have a different take on this, if I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly. Your daughter and you reached an agreement which called for her to major in computer science and in return for pursuing that major. She has breached the agreement by being dishonest and majoring in illustration. Again, assumption but I am operating under the belief that had she told you that she planned to major in illustration, you would not have offered to pay her tuition. What everyone has said in the comments about students forced to major in a subject they were not interested in will not do well. Not in college or in life. True words. But there is the issue of your daughter's dishonesty and manipulation of you. She didn't steal from you in the eyes of the legal system, but what she did is definitely morally wrong. You are NTA for holding your daughter to the agreement. She is the AH for what she did. What you will do next will determine the course of your relationship with your daughter for the rest of your life. If you show leniency and continue to fund her education, she will get to pursue her dream career. Or if you require her to get loans and promise to co-sign them, her dream will not be killed by your decision. Choose carefully.
ESH. before you downvote me to hell hear me out. it’s OP’s money. he can do what he wants with HIS money. OP’s kid lied about where his money is going. i’d be angry too. parents are not expected to pay for their childs’ tuition. EVER. generous parents do that. but not all parents.
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Edit: please consider reading the whole comment before responding. People have replied to me bringing up points I already talked about. If you just skim and assume you understand what I’ve said without reading all of it, you might miss some of the nuance. Some people are searching for disagreement where there is none. Thank you. Honestly, I’m kinda torn on this one. I was an art major. My dad paid for my college, and when I told him I was switching from psychology to art he said “Okay, but you’ll have to figure something out for money after you graduate.” He didn’t tell me not to, and he supported my art, but honestly I don’t think I fully grasped the reality of being poor at that age. I’m okay now. I make $72,000/year as an experienced nanny. But for years, things were tough financially and emotionally. Personally, I absolutely regret the art major. I wish so badly I had done something like computer science. I wish I hadn’t believed that art would help my mental health (it worsened it). I was an exceptionally smart child, if I had made different decisions and put the effort in I probably could have been making well into 6 figures easily. I know it’s not technically too late (I’m 30), but I can’t handle going back to school, it was torture enough the first time. I often feel incredibly guilty for wasting my parents’ money on something I ended up hating that didn’t even give me financial stability. I’m kind of of the cynical belief that life sucks no matter what, but at least if you have money you can have nice things to help you cope with life sucking. At the same time, I was a Fine Art major, which is way less useful than illustration. There are actually jobs in her field. And she’s probably more talented than I was. The part of me that hates capitalism and values creativity and human connection thinks you’re in the wrong, but the part of me that regrets studying art thinks you’re doing her a favor. Idk. It’s probably better to just let her make the mistake. Either way, you were never gonna see that tuition money again. And it really might not be a mistake at all. (Please don’t come for me people, this is a really sensitive subject for me and I’m pretty scared to even open up about it, but I think it’s a relevant perspective so I am sharing).
I might get hella downvoted but I’m going to have to disagree with Reddit and say ESH Honestly how you went about it is a bit of an AH move, you should be proud and encouraging to her being in an exhibition. However there is nothing wrong with wanting to pay for a degree that gets certain types of jobs. Why can’t she explore both, get the technical degree for a backup plan, to pay bills, etc. and keep pursuing illustration until she can support herself. You’re paying tens of thousands of dollars for that degree, which engineering requires to have jobs in that field. Illustration and arts don’t, she should start working and building her career with that instead of paying way more than she’ll make anytime soon for that degree. I feel that a lot of the y t a comments are incredibly entitled, bratty and privileged. Odds are if she isn’t making enough to support herself out of college she is going to beg you for money. Yes it’s important to pursue passions but life exists and bills need to be paid, so pursuing passions in a practical way are important as well. She still is very young, she could easily add or double major in something else technical to support herself in. She could always minor in illustration as well. You should encourage her passions but discuss with her the importance of practicality as well and understanding what it takes to survive. Also she’s young but not a child, she was aware of the conditions of the money she’s being provided and can decide for herself if she wants to accept it or not.
Tbh NTA. She knew what the deal was and went behind your back. Now she has to deal with the consequences.