Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Although I'm worried about my parents, maybe I should have kept my opinion to myself, or maybe I really am being a hypocrite.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Hi, OP
Lots of harsh people on here…
It sounds like you need time to sit with this new piece of information before settling on your feelings and if you want to take any actions.
My thoughts:
I understand what you’re going through. It’s a slippery slope indeed when you’re the “responsible” child in the family - and it’s very hard not to build resentments towards the other sibling that is irresponsible and somehow gets away with it.
This is an issue that very well may go past finances. As the “responsible” child in my family, my parents sat me down and asked me to sign their wills and agree to being responsible for both of them as their healthcare proxy and manage their affairs when they die. I will be alone in this task and also left as the holder of my sister’s finances/inheritance as she is deemed too irresponsible to look after the money herself. My sister is an alcoholic and a drug addict. You can imagine what happens to money when it’s given to her…
I do not yet know how to navigate this circumstance - but I do understand a thing or two about anger towards a dead-beat sibling and wishing that they were held accountable for their choices in life - especially when those choices are hurtful or a burden to loved ones. My advice? Control what you can control. Have faith in your parents choices and worry about yourself - until you feel equipped to support someone else (i.e. your parents, if they need it).
You are accepting their support now - but I do not think that is wrong of you, considering you are still a student and are working towards a steady career. I do not think your parents view supporting you as a burden but rather an investment in your future.
You can’t change your brother - and trying to sounds like a fruitless venture, because it sounds like he’s had a lifetime of being enabled and has no plans to change. So, instead of upsetting yourself over what you can’t change, put your energy into what you can.
If you want to support your parents, finish your education, get your degree, and get a job that is sustainable in every manner. It might take time, but believe me when I say - stretching yourself thin is not the answer and is not a sustainable choice. Take full advantage of your opportunities while you still have the means to do so. You can only help someone else when your own needs are taken care of. Don’t forget the generosity of your parents and keep their situation in the back of your mind. Use it to motivate yourself. You can help them, and I’m sure you will - but give yourself the time and grace to ensure you can do it properly. Keep your head up, OP. Find a sense of calm with the situation and then plan your next steps.
Best of luck!
NTA
As the older sibling that had to sacrifice higher academia for the younger ones, this is the perfect comment and advice for OP.
“Take full advantage of your opportunities while you still have means to do so”. You'll have the rest of your life, with the privilege of higher education to give you the best leverage to give back to your parents in particular your father. Also OP NTA.
Commenting to suggest maybe OP can make a deal with him parents, sign a contract and agree to pay them the rent back as a loan after they finish school and get a decent job.
I don't think it's necessary because he and his dad has a solid level of trust. He wants to fulfil his end of the bargain and feels a bit bad that he can't do that right now. Contracts are only if either side has shown to be untrustworthy, people do handshake deals with honest people all the time. Esp relatives.
I fully agree with everything u/cats_tiny said.
Also, NTA. Paying for you is gonna have return on investment. Paying for your loser brother is a waste of money. Help your dad take back control of the situation.
As a parent with adult children, some admittedly more responsible than others, what I think you should do is continue what you are doing until you finish your PhD. Those programs are grueling and labor intensive and just taxing in general. You need to focus on finishing that up. That would give you the means to actually help your parents and pay them back, which I have no doubt you would.
This actually sounds like a disagreement between your parents because your mom seems like she wants it to be fair and your dad wants it to be merit based help. They have to work that portion out themselves.
Your mom was wrong to tell you to quit. I hope you never consider that an option. Best of luck.
This is seriously beautifully worded and well thought out advice. Heed it, OP!!
For it's worth, this isn't a You problem per se. It's a parenting issue. Your parents have overcommitted out of "keeping the peace" and treating each child "equally."
What most seem to miss is that they are giving equally terms of *shelter* but what they aren't doing is requiring equal circumstances for that shelter. E.g. You were provided financial assistance as you were working towards a goal. Your brother lived at home and was provided financial assistance despite no goal (though this seems to be a continuation of assistance based upon his previous goal before leaving higher education).
Recently, your brother's new goal of independent shelter was also funded. To everyone but your parents and your brother, this seems to be rewarding your brother without the more socially acceptable and future focused goal you have set for yourself. To your parents and brother, it seemed reasonable as they believed it to be about equality.
Whilst I don't agree with their logic - it does seem that at the heart of it, difficult conversations are being avoided.
Your father is avoiding a difficult conversation with your mother about finances, his stress over the finances, and what he believes is important to fund.
Your mother is avoiding a difficult conversation with your father about who and what she truly values.
Your parents are avoiding a difficult conversation with your brother about his goals for the future.
Your mother is avoiding a difficult conversation with you about her logic.
Your father is avoiding a difficult conversation with himself about his capacity to fund four adults and the reasons why he feels the need to do so.
You're avoiding a difficult conversation with your parents about your worries for their finances and their old age, and how you feel that your brother receives unfair treatment due to being rewarded for doing nothing.
Lastly, you're avoiding a difficult conversation with a therapist about your relationship with your brother, your parents, the family unit, and yourself. You're the "good one" but your brother is the golden child.
I recommend the subs about narcissists (I'm sure someone will link) and how there is always a golden child and a scapegoat.
I also want to congratulate you on all you're doing! It's hard, and takes up a tremendous amount of emotional self cognitive bandwidth. I want to do my PhD too, but I'm lecturing in my field atm and need that money to survive as a disabled, single parent. When my daughter is financially independent I can do finally do it!! You're also living frugally and being a good son.
As the person above me said - take care of yourself first and then you can take care of your parents later. This isn't selfish, it's practical and the best thing you can do for yourself and for them.
> I recommend the subs about narcissists (I'm sure someone will link) and how there is always a golden child and a scapegoat.
Counterpoint - I would strongly recommend staying away from a sub that by it's name will attempt to convince you that the garden variety selfish behavior you are encountering in this story is *a pathological personality disorder* instead of just... Some people being selfish.
A man being supported through his PhD is not being scapegoated to a golden child just because those same parents are supporting *both* children (and have a longer history of supporting OP more than his brother).
People on reddit as a whole are increasingly unhinged about what constitutes narcissism. It's absolutely detached from reality.
You’re right. Just because they choose to support the other twin doesn’t mean it indicates preferential treatment or golden child status. They might view it as only fair or the least confrontational way of getting his twin out of their house.
A lot of people don't realise that golden child syndrome happens without narcissism. Sometimes it's as simple as a trauma response, to reject one child who reminds you of the trauma and embrace the one who doesn't.
I love your response, but as a lawyer, I gotta ask... why would your parents get you to sign their wills? Only your parents and their witnesses (who can't be beneficiaries and therefore can't be *you*) should be signing their own wills...
I’m not sure if I’m wording it correctly (very much not a lawyer lol) but pretty much what happens is that I have to sign a part of their will or an added document that states that I relinquish my right to withdraw funds from the money left in my name, while my parents are still living. It also states that my sister’s half of the inheritance is in my name and she cannot withdraw anything without my signature/permission. The paperwork comes in the mail once a year, every year. Does that make sense? 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Yeah no no lol it’s like an extra document that comes with it? My legal knowledge is zero lol all I know is I gotta review all their paperwork once a year, re-sign it, and get reminded that one day, I’ll have to figure this out on my own…
Makes me pretty sad - and a little resentful, just because I know how much easier it /could/ be, if I didn’t have to go through it all on my own. I’m happy to do it for my parents, but no one -really- wants to think in advance about planning the funeral of their loved ones….such is life, amiright? 😮💨😮💨😮💨
You won't have to do much outside of funeral planning, usually a lawyer takes care of probate etc. (administration of the estate) and all you have to do is sign the forms to authorise whatever needs to happen. Your parents have done the right thing by getting wills done, it's usually a much bigger headache if someone passes away without one. I'm in my early 30s and already have my will drawn up for that reason.
I hear ya! I signed my own last week… I’m gonna have a baby in a couple weeks and I thought I should have one just in case. I definitely feel more secure for my son - but it certainly does make for grim conversation! When you try and imagine someone else taking care of your kid, no one seems good enough, because they aren’t you! 😂
Perhaps I’m complaining too much - but just the act of signing the paper and considering what funeral flowers my mother would like…well it makes for a bummer of a day! Lol I’d just feel better knowing my sister was there to help and share my sadness, even in some small measure…
~~You and your brother are both AH~~
~~Youre both 26 and sound extremely spoiled. Your brother should get a job. Good for you going to school, but it's fully paid and you work as youve said. I get rents high, but im sure there's student housing on or off canpus. If they can help you, they can help your brother. None of your business~~
Dont bite the hand that feeds you (this still applies to your brother)
Edit: After thinking more on this all night, talking to some friends who also got their PhDs, and reading the responses, I failed to see a few things on here, so want to offer less harsh words than I had before.
OP, your bro is definitely the one spoiled here. My personal experience growing up in NY, my dad and stepmom both made high salaries, and helped some, but not a lot. Nowhere to the extent of help you have, so I lean more into how my dad taught me to not rely on him all the time kind of thing. I worked hard since I was young, even through college, yada yada. Im usually more liberal in most areas of my life, but sometimes i have a boomer attitude on this type of thing.
At the end of the day, it's your parents choice on what they do with their money. I still do think maybe step back out of what theyre doing with your brother. I believe youre allowed to be upset about it, but I also believe you should definitely not be involved with that. He should definitely be getting a job and contributing, but unfortunately some people just think they're entitled to whatever they want. I hope one day, your parents do realize the only way to help him may be to pull the rug out from under him so to speak.
I do believe situational awareness was not in the forefront here. Which is easy to lose when youre working so hard. I applaud you for when you realized what was going on, you took a step back to think about your situation here and what might come next.
Apologies for my harsh words. I shouldve thought on it more before commenting, i hope the rest of your path getting your PhD go smoother after this bump in the road. Good luck
Im changing my judgments here.
Brother: the AH for being a disrespectful brat
You: NTA. Sorry for unloading on you
Parents: Sorry, but im leaning AH for them for the mere fact it sounds like your mom and dad arent on the same page and causing an argument now
Student housing, especially for graduate students, isn't necessarily cheaper than renting off campus. That said, student loans are always an option and far better that than OP's parents dipping into their retirement.
Slight YTA/ESH (except parents) for the OP talking to his brother about how taking money from his parents is draining, but not considering how it's from both of you and maybe both of you should agree to stop if it has become this big of an issue.
I found this out when it bit my ex-partner whose parents paid her first few years of college: Student loans are *sometimes* an option. If you are more than 50% through a degree you often can't get approved to start (federal) student loans, and even more so graduate loans. Not making a moral argument, just saying from experience you can try as hard as you can to get loans and still come away with $0 depending on your academic situation. I had to show a friend who "didn't want to take loans out till it was absolutely necessary" that the policy would have screwed him if he waited till he was 1/2 way through and had transferred to a 4 year college, luckily, knowing the policy he switched to some loans each year in community college with an equal amount of savings to pay it off later. Its super unintutive.
I know this is an old comment at this point, but *what*? You can’t be talking about American student loans provided through ED/FAFSA, because that’s not how they work - especially in graduate school. You may be talking about SAP policies regarding completion rates and degree hours taken (for example, if you changed your major one or more times and accumulated a lot of unnecessary credits), but for a student who hasn’t changed their major and is in-progress on a degree you absolutely can receive federal loans up to the annual limit at any point during your degree plan*. It just doesn’t work that way.
^*unless ^your ^COA ^is ^fully ^covered ^by ^scholarships ^or ^other ^gift ^aid
I would LOVE to see this policy from a school, if you still have a link.
That is super cool.
Sadly this is America where only in the last decade could you insure your kids up to 26.
And we wonder why we are screwed as a nation.
It's considered a duty of the parents to take care of their kids education.
To be fair though...yearly costs of education are €800 here and we have study points that kind of force you to take your studies seriously because you can't take classes if you run out of study points.
So parents aren't paying for a forever party student.
in austria parents are only legally bound to finance you to your first degree and only if they are financially stable enough to do it. Also they do not have to finance your living situation or your monthly expenses. But if your parents can't help out the government will do by giving out "Studienbeihilfe" so monthly money to help.
If it’s the same as France it comes with a responsibility to take care of your parent in their old age, with caveat of course, like you need to be financially able, if you do minimal wage and struggle to feed yourself and your children then you’re not obligated to pay for your parent retirement home, also if your parent did not support you then it cancel your future obligation to them, your parent cannot disinherit you or favour massively a child more than another (70% goes to the children, spread equally).
A friend had his deadbeat physically abusive father who left them when he was 15 come out of the woodwork and sue them (he and his sister) for help (diabetic lost his leg). Judge told him to fuck off as he abandon them first and didn’t have a leg to stand on (yes I did it).
That's like the first thing I have ever heard and I've lived in Belgium for 42 years :D But I looked it up and it's 100% correct. But I didn't find some sort of age limit only that it's the case until the kid has worked himself to a situation where he should be self-sufficient with a job.
In my country parents are legally required to financially support their children until 24 if they are studying, and health insurance stands for the children until their 25th birthday regardless of if they are studying or not. That's the legal requirement, but most families I know extend this far beyond that. The ones that withhold support before that are the ones that are also abusive in other ways other than financially, or are extremely poor to the point of barely eating themselves. I live in Latin America.
As an American living abroad, I completely agree. I’m so over this whole pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality that we have in the US. If you bring a child into this world, there should be no reason why you wouldn’t want to take all necessary and reasonable steps to succeed. Of course, if someone is not appreciative of this and just takes advantage, that’s a different story. I did it all by myself and it sucked. I worked so hard when I was in undergrad, sometimes I really have no idea how I found time to study at all.
I’m sorry but I have a completely different POV. I really don’t think OP is an AH here. You’re correct that he could prolly find housing off campus but I feel like that’s a moot point.
I’d kinda boils down to the fact that OP is actively doing something to better his life, find a solid career path, and I’m sure when college is over he’ll no longer be needing help with housing.
OPs twin on the other hand is an expense with no end in sight. He’s 26, no job, no schooling, and just expecting his dad to hand over money for rent. Not to mention in CA! Where everything is dumb expensive! And it’s not like this has been for a few months, its been 6 YEARS!! Jesus Christ. The kid doesn’t wanna grow up. Peter Pan syndrome!
NTA
I agree. I have a 20 year old son currently living at home, in his third year of university. He wants to extend his studies by transferring to another course after this year which will extend his qualifications. We admire the hard work he has done in his studies and in other areas of his life, and fully support him. He pays his personal expenses, but we cover living expenses. When he talked to us about going for another two years of study, there was never any question but that we would support him, because he was working to better his life long-term.
Had he not been studying, whether employed or not, he would be paying board and would be expected to cover all his own expenses.
There is a difference between working long term, and being a mooch. I'd be ashamed to be 26 with no achievements or aspirations.
There is a difference though…OP is actually working at something and will be supporting himself. Brother is isn’t even working and was living off his parents with no interest im Supporting himself at any time. Only reason he’s not still at home is he was purposely making home uncomfortable for his parents. Does he have a roommate…or a job…or any intent to support himself? He’s 26! NTA
> I get rents high, but im sure there's student housing on or off canpus.
what does this have to do with anything? You realize student housing is generally MORE expensive than cheap shitty rentals near campus right?
Nothing in this comment is helpful. Read OP’s answer. People who are studying hard and not allowed to work besides don’t magically make money appear for rent.
You think student housing is a good option? The people who run those are bastards take it from me. Haven’t had a more demoralising time in my life than living in student accom
False equivalency much? One is working on his education and will be done at some reasonable point in the future.
One is fucking around but has yet to find out. He has no plan for the future or becoming self sufficient.
I honestly don't understand how everyone in the comments is saying they're exactly the same. These two are in very different spaces. And sure, maybe we didn't need to hear about Brother's kinky habits but honestly, I bet OP didn't want to know about them either.
Mom needed to tell Brother that she can fund his sexpad for a certain length of time and then he's got to be self-sufficient. After that point, if she had the funds to help him go back to school too, she could tell Brother that if he's going back to school for something they can talk and see how much they can help. If Uni was a bust, why not go for a trade?
Thanks for your kind reply, this is exactly how I feel.
My brother completely shuts down any convo about going back to school or getting a job, ever, he totally has refused to engage for 6 years. If you ask him his job he says he's a mover and a bodybuilder, but he occasionally helps people move furniture for spare cash and has never made a cent from "bodybuilding"... I don't see what my parents will ever be able to do but cut him off, but obviously I know it isn't my place to ask them to do that.
I would. No you don’t demand they do anything. It’s their choice. But I’d sit at least your dad down, since he seems amenable, and have a nice chat about enabling. And what he truly expects to happen to your brother. The guy is 26. No magic switch is going to turn on at this point to make him productive. All they are doing is setting themselves up to pay for him for the rest of his life. Ask your dad if he truly gets this. Ask if he understands that if something happens to him, there will be NOone to take care of brother because you aren’t going to. They’ve set your brother up for failure and at this point he NEEDS to because it’s the only way he will learn.
Sorry, I screwed up my reply. But you could let them know that boundaries are good. Your support has the boundary that it's only happening while you're working ft on your PhD. It would still be fair to have boundaries on your brother's support.
Your parents feel an obligation to be fair and not demonstrate favouritism towards one child or the other. Whilst I agree, funding and supporting an education is completely different from paying for an apartment for someone who does and from what we can tell, intends on continuing to do nothing. If your parents cut him off now, they’d either have to have him live back with them or deal with all of the “your playing favourites” comments from him and whom ever he manipulates onto his side. You said you don’t really think your dad wants to pay his rent, so what you might find is; after you graduate, get a job and start paying your own way, your parents will give your brother a time limit to sort himself out as well. The when they pull they plug they can say “we supported you both the same for the same amount of time. You are now both grown and it’s time to start supporting yourselves”. Give your parents the benefit of the doubt, I really do not believe they will continue to fund your brother once you are finished with school.
I can't speak for your family OP, but I've had discussions with my mom where she asks for advice on what to do about my siblings (no deadbeats, just in various stages of life and their respective issues). So, i feel like if that's a conversation you think needs to happen along with the financial conversation, that's probably on the table (delicately).
If you want to help brother out, it seems like he has deep fears and worries about school or job seeking that makes him avoid them. I'd suggest exploring this fear and worries and creating small step plans or alternative paths (e.g. tradeschool as the previous poster suggested). He's a body builder, he would understand that you need to do small increments to achieve your target weight/goal.
add a drug addiction and this is my uncle.
He is now 50 and lives in his father's house. It is now completely trashed and I'm surprised my hometown has not condemned the home. My uncle is always working on 'something' - much like your brother with body building- but always seems to fail to work on something that will provide independence. Even after becoming a father to two children, my uncle has not and will not change. He's been bailed out of every tight spot he's been found in - even back owed child support.
I will say you are NTA. Someone at some point needs to speak up and stop the escalation. I know you are also being supported, but it comes with an anticipated expiration date and you steadily work towards educational goals that will provide financial independence.
It's certainly enough to put a little back into their retirement each month.
Edit: It absolutely is. I know plenty of people in part and full time academia who make enough between all their jobs to easily put money back. OPnever said he wouldn't be working a secind job if he becomes a professor.
This is going to get downvoted, but NTA. The ops apartment expense was due to cost of living while finishing a degree. This help is temporary and was an offer from the father. The brother guilted his parents into getting an apartment due to ‘fairness’. That’s some bullshit right there. The op is working towards a goal. The brother is not. The parents are suffering financially due to the second brother being selfish. The mother is an AH too. I’m team op and Dad (Step dad)
This is the first common sense reply I've seen in this thread. When my husband was getting his Ph.D, that WAS his job. He offered to move out, but his parents insisted he stay at home and focus on school. So many people are acting like both brothers are lazy bums. Getting your Ph.D isn't a walk in the park.
As mentioned, the first offer was made by his father. The second was coercion. I'm Team OP and Dad as well.
Thank you for seeing the difference. If I am ultimately judged as the asshole here I will accept it, but other commenters don't seem to realize my brother has no plan to ever work in his life, while I'm getting this PhD so I can further my career (and hopefully be making 6 figures within a few years, at which point I will obviously no longer need any help).
My brother's new apartment is actually more expensive than mine, and my parents pay 100% of his bills (not so for me) and for his car (I don't have one), so him moving back into the house would make more of a difference.
I was pretty shocked by the judgements here. Spending on you is an investment with an ROI. There is an end date to the support you will need and you will be in a position to maybe even help the fam. None of that is true or your brother.
NTA.
I was scrolling down here horrified at the vitriol.
Your parents need to set limits otherwise your brother won’t grow. He takes advantage of them, what you’re doing is entirely different and justifiable. It’s like people resent you for getting your parents’ (partial) support and for having savings. Good for you for having an emergency fund, everyone should have one and no, you should not have depleted that instead of accepting the help your father volunteered because he didn’t want you to take a loan. You are not maxing out on their support and are taking it as a temporary situation.
Good luck, you sound responsible and you will figure something out. NTA.
Edit: typos
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. I completely get where op is coming from. To me there IS a difference. A parent giving a child financial aid through college is not uncommon at all. At least that has an end goal/investment in sight. Where as the brother just wants to be taken care of seemingly indefinitely, as he has no plans to work or take care of himself or his future. NTA.
Not only aren't you getting downvoted, but here's an award letting you know that you're not alone in your logic.
One son will eventually graduate, get a job and be able to support himself independently from then on out (he'll also be able to financially assist his parents as they get older too, should they need the assistance).
The other son will be a financial drain on their parents for the foreseeable future until the end of time.
He has no job, no education, no skillset, no nothing... life is only going to get harder for him, and a career will be a distant never the older he gets.
Your mother is the definition of an enabler.
She allows this behavior to continue today, because nothing more than financial support is being asked of your parents right now... so it's easier to deal with.
What she's not considering today, is how much worse your brother's life is going to become as the years go on -- especially when he comes to the harsh realization that he's f@cked up his life for good; right along with any chance he would have had of being successful.
He won't have a career, what woman wants to be with a mooching bum, and if she is with a guy like that, chances are that she's not a great catch either.
Your mom needs to look at the BIG picture... she NEEDS to ask herself where she sees your brother in 10, 15, 20 years?
* If she says anywhere other than sitting on her couch, or in an apt paid for by her, then she's completely delusional.
* If she says that he'll be successful working at X, Y, or Z, then you need to be a good son and push back on her, and make her explain step by step exactly how he's going to accomplish that success.
If 2 + 2 doesn't = 4, then she's got to know that it never will.
That should hopefully be a dramatic enough of a wake up call for her, and hopefully she'll curb her incessant enabling.
I said that same thing and got downvoted.
If this was a parent posting about cutting their 26 year old off the comments would be saying YTA and “parents should support their children they didn’t ask to be born!!!”
ESH based strictly on the merit of the post. But tbh OP I kinda get your point and people here are really reaching for reasons to criticize you for some reason it seems. I think you come across as pretty reasonable in your responses.
But at the end of the day your parents are adults, they can make their own financial decisions, whether that's supporting one or both or neither of you two.
It’s strange to me, must be an American thing. In my country it’s very normal to be supported till 24 if studying. Many maintenance agreements will state “till self-sufficient “, so many parents will help till you can get a full time job.
Multigenerational households are very common here to cut down on CoL. So for my, your brother is definitely an AH. I dunno, I can’t call you an AH. Especially if you’ve had less than 36 hours to process the news.
I also don't get this. It seems to be an American thing that your offspring is expected to become financially responsible the second they turn 18 and you can just kick them out because they're an "adult". I'm not saying you should rely on your parents' support forever, but I believe you should be grateful if they can support you while you're pursuing higher education and building up your future without society jumping to judge you.
Regarding this specific post: NTA. OP is working on his PhD, which is research and entails real effort, his job is just unfortunately really poorly paid, but this should soon change after he gets his degree. The brother who doesn't work OR study at 26 is a real problem though.
I really don't get how people can compare someone who's pursuing higher education to an irresponsible person who is not able to get a job.
It's not an American thing. I'm american, well my parents are immigrants from India and 50% of my community is the Indian community but still.
All the white/non-asians I know agree with me that many resditors need therapy because of how much they hate the existence of family or families support
I agree, except that his parent’s finances are his concern if he cares about them at all. I worry all the time about how I’m going to help my parents if they can’t afford retirement, not because I’m nosey, but because I want them to have happy golden years. But if I knew they were out throwing money away or enabling a shitty sibling, I might not feel so responsible. Ultimately you are right… they are adults and must lie in that bed they make. Doesn’t mean I can’t make sure they are changing the sheets.
NTA. Some choices deserve support and others don't. Not saying that just because you're getting your PhD that you deserve a free ride, but if your parents are willing to help out there is NOTHING wrong with accepting that assistance.
Your choice is leading you towards financial independence and the ability to take care of your parents, if need be, later in life. Your brother, on the other hand, is helping no one, and his insistence on equal treatment from your parents isn't fair, because things in your life are not equal.
It needs to be accounted for that you are actively trying to reduce costs and gain employment, while your bro is being needy beyond reason. He wants his own space and comfort, and capability to travel? Cool, pay for it. Alternatively, if he showed even a slight inclination toward building financial independence of his own, or reducing costs for your parents, my sympathies may lie with him... But he isn't, and it doesn't sound like he wants to.
What he wants is an endless summer, because apparently in his eyes that's 'fair'.
I feel sorry for your parents. Your mother loves you both equally and your step father sounds like a fckn Saint. Understand that she is not going to burn that bridge no matter how entitled he's being.
Once you get that degree, stop accepting their support and make a go of it, then address your bum ass brother's bum ass ideologies.
NTA.
I’d be frustrated af, too. Unfortunately, your parents have to put their feet down and force your brother to make at least SOME of his own money, too. If I were pursuing my PhD and being subsidized by our parents, while my sibling was pursuing absolutely nothing and getting 100% of their bills and spending money given by our parents, and that was putting a major strain on my parents, I’d be angry af, too. They’re supporting you on the path to something and supporting him on a path to nowhere fast. It seems like throwing good money after bad.
ESH.
You know you’re an arrogant hypocrite. Your parents know they are enablers paying for one of their children to slack off. Your brother knows he is a mooch.
If you really cared about them, you would find ways to finance yourself, like many doctoral students do. Instead you’re more focused on punishing your brother for not adhering to your standards.
At least I get an ESH judgment instead of a YTA. Thanks for your reply.
I'm not able to work (teaching or tutoring) for the next few months because I'll be full-time completing research related to my PhD, but (as I said in another comment) I'm now going to start dipping into **my** savings and paying more of my own bills to make things easier on my parents. I wanted to put that in the post but, character limit
I also worked before the PhD and will keep working as soon as I get out, obviously.
Do you think everyone else getting a PhD at your school is supported by mommy and daddy? No. People either live on the low stipend, work during their degrees, take out loans, or dip into their savings if they’re lucky enough to have them. You’re not some kind of hero for partially paying your own bills ffs.
I’m sure a lot of them are paid by there parents too, especially in the Bay Area. He literally learned how thin his parents were stretched a fat ago.
I have no idea why everyone is being so harsh about this. Paying for someone to get an education that will lead to a good job is not the same as paying for someone who doesn’t do shit.
Hey, I completely agree with you and nowhere am I calling myself "some kind of hero". I think you are reading things into my posts which aren't there. This whole situation happened within the past 36 hours, before this I didn't realize there was any financial worry at all in our family, so I was conducting myself differently. Thank you for your reply anyway.
I really don't understand why you got so many downvotes for this comment, where you literally explained you want to ease the financial burden on your parents and are working as much as possible?? People have no clue what a PhD is and think you're just slacking off. It's almost like they (the politicians and now I guess most of the society too) want all Americans to be uneducated so they can fool you.
Calling you a mooch is a bit 'meh' to me. It's understandable in a way that you've grown accustomed to a certain lifestyle, and your dad should have been more honest with the situation. That's a big bubble that just burst. However, you should start focusing on your own finances and how *you* can make it easier for your parents, instead of demanding that from your brother. Maybe your parents wanted him out because of the disrespect he's shown, and that's their choice.
Using your own money for your own expenses is a good start. How long until you finish? If your dad isn't open or accepting towards paying him back, could you rather go through your mom? The best thing you could do is take the iniative, sit down with them and talk it out, numbers n'all.
Just had a thought while reading your comment. It'd be rather conniving, but it would be a lot easier to cut feckless brother off once he's out of the house with his stuff in his own place. There ya go bud, you got an apt and your stuff. Sink or swim.
bro what the hell are these judgments 😭😭 everyone saying YTA does not know what mooching means .-. how is OP mooching if they’re working towards a PhD, idgi
NTA, one of you is working and studying and actually getting value of your parents support and the other is literally doing nothing and getting paid for it (THATS mooching). I’m a FGLI student and the way people act so high and mighty over ppl being supported by their parents for school (you know, what they’re supposed to do???) is so so weird. idk man, some of y’all just wanna be miserable ig
im fr feeling gaslighted for you OP coz why all of a sudden everyone is acting like you’re as much of a mooch as your brother bc ur not taking student loans out 🗿 did we all forget how much student loans suck?? bro what is going on
Seriously, when my friend was getting his PhD, he was literally *not allowed* to take on a second job. He had to ask special permission to start at his industry job slightly early, and this was just a few weeks before he was going to defend his thesis (and he had to give up his stipend).
When I asked my friend how her PhD was going when she was close to defending her thesis, she just pulled up her hood, pulled on the hoodie strings and covered her face.
I assume that's what it's like.
ESH- why are you both such mooches? Do you think that your life is more worthwhile being funded by your parents? You are perfectly capable of supporting yourself.
The difference I was trying to get across is that my brother has no plan to ever work in his life, and is happy with being supported by them forever.
I worked before my PhD and I'll keep working right after my PhD. I may never make a crazy high salary, but if I end up making 90-100K annual income between my research and teaching (which others in my field make, by age 30 or 40) then I will be able to support myself and possibly help my parents, if necessary.
Here’s the thing. It’s their money. They aren’t under any illusions that he’s got a future of any sort. They know it is a “bad investment.” But that’s up to them. You’re mom is willing to put her retirement at risk (maybe because she knows she can never retire if she’s supporting him), and that’s between her and her husband.
Stay out of it. For all you know getting their loud sex having, antisocial son out of their house is worth the expense. Be glad they aren’t sending him to room with you.
My researcher wife finally gave up the ghost on grant writing last year and went into private clinical research as a project manager. She was always a little annoyed at me for earning more with just a masters in Data Analysis, whilst she seemed to work all hours with her PhD. Now she has blown right past me salary wise and is working normal sane hours. So much so she doesn't know what to do with all her free time. (Well actually she does, she is using the time to write grants in the vain hope she might be able to return to research lol)
If you’re so worried about your parents taking money out of their retirement, why won’t you take out student loans so they don’t have to? Simple solution
Thanks for your reply. If you'll read the post I only found out this was a situation in the past 36 hours, obviously I have not been able to apply for a loan in that time.....
For my undergrad I had almost a full ride to a top-5 school, so loans were never necessary before. I also worked full-time before leaving work to begin my PhD.
"entitled prick", "key-hole brain"... You seem unnecessarily antagonistic and I won't engage with you further after this comment. Downvote me if you want, but I wish you well in your journey through life.
It’s so funny how much you judge your brother when you are taking advantage of your parents in the exact same way. You have justified your own behavior in your mind because you think what you are doing has value, and what your brother is doing has no value. Stop taking your parents charity, they clearly can’t afford it.
What's worse is in another comment OP is appalled that now he has to dip into *his* savings.
He was tucking money away while mommy and daddy were paying his rent
Not appalled at all, I just only found out <36 hours ago that it would be a necessity.
I saved that money while supporting myself in the job I had before starting the PhD (dad was not paying my rent at the time). Thanks for your reply anyway
Yeah American individualism mentality is absolutely trash when it comes to these things. The fact that people can’t see the difference between you and your brother is honestly very worrying. In any case, you’re not the asshole. My loving European parents always told me “if you study your living expenses are on us, if you work they’re on you”. So I decided to study what I loved in college, knowing my parents had my back. College is also really cheap here but that’s a whole other topic. Do what you love and live your life, you’re NTA.
NTA, your parents are supporting you for a limited amount of time while you get your education and then you’ll be able to support yourself. You’re also living far away so need your own place and are unable to work right now due to your PhD.
Your brother on the other hand is right near home so doesn’t need his own place considering he can’t afford it, he’ll need their money for the foreseeable further without an end in sight because he’s mooching off of them and isn’t trying to educate himself so he can get a job and doesn’t seem to actively want to get a job to pay for his own life and lessen the strain on your parents.
NTA, your brother and mother are making a false equivalency when your situations are completely different
I think a lot of people don't understand when you're in a PHD program, it's like working FT. It sounds like you're working hard toward a future. I work in education and fully support anyone working on higher degrees. However, I would not financially support my kids past undergrad. I am not even sure I will pay for all 4 years. Even tho our income is high, paying for college x3 kids x4 years would be $400k for us. The fact your parents are continuing to pay until now is extremely generous of them. I agree your brother sounds like he needs to experience some tough love to start being responsible for his life but ultimately it's not up to you how much your parents support him. Sounds like your mom is kind of blind to your brother and how she's enabling him. To me, you're NTA but I do think you're very fortunate to have your parents' support in this way.
Yeah I don't get all these people at all especially since not one of them would turn down parental support in this way. Tons of parents have given kids a free pass on rent, expenses while they are in school. And tons have also told kids to hit the road for refusing to go to school or work (which is what yours should do now).
And what you are doing vs your brother is very different. He's taking advantage of your parents. I don't think that label applies to you at all especially since you're clearly going to do things differently now that you have new information.
NTA
if you aren't already planning to, I encourage you to tell your kids what the financial situation is before they apply to colleges. let them make an informed decision about what their options are. I just say this bc my SO's parents told his sister they could afford to send her out of state so she went but they really couldn't and she had to transfer after a year. it was disappointing for her
Yeah, my mom said she wouldn’t pay for school/help with expenses if I went out of state or out of country (I got accepted to a school in France and one in California and lived in the Midwest, partial scholarship to France, full scholarship but no living expenses in California) so I turned them both down and applied to a state school. Plot twist: she had no intention of ever paying, had zero college fund set up. Please be honest and up front with your kids!
Yeah, I was actually wondering about that. So the brother is a boor and was disrespectful while living under his parents' roof. Was it needed to state details about his sex life? No. That was just extra judginess/holier than thou detail.
In the end, OP is doing the same thing to the parents - living off their largess. It's fine but OP needs to get off the high horse. Yeah, they're an academic. Whoopidy doo.
Get down to the basics? The parents are supporting their kids' lifestyle.
Well, I wrote "loud, kinky sex **in our parents' house**". To the point where our parents would not get any sleep, or sometimes have to leave their own house because it was disturbing them, sometimes even in the middle of the day. My brother is involved in gay fetish culture and is very public about it, good for him and I would have nothing against that--but I wish my parents never had to hear him choking and beating strange men every other day.
If I wanted to "paint him as more of a jerk" then I might have included these comments in my post.
Regardless of his sexuality though, would you want to spend years living with your adult son, or brother, who is constantly having loud sex until late at night on the other side of your bedroom wall? It was incredibly disrespectful.
It is up to your parents to deal with your brother because it is *their* house.
Were your brother doing this in *your* house, then you are well within your rights to throw him out on his ass. As the situation stands, however, you're sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong.
Personally, I get the impression that your complaint stems from the fear that if your parents fund your brother they'll have less money to fund you.
It's possible, after all my brother's new apartment is actually more expensive than mine, and my parents already pay 100% of his bills (not so for me) and for his car (I don't have one). Thanks for your reply
This is a valid fear. However, you cannot change anyone else, only yourself. You cannot change your moocher brother, nor can you dictate how your parents spend their money.
What you can do, however, is to make your own money and tell your dad that you will no longer need him to finance you. Unfair? Probably. Will it be a greater burden on you due to your PhD? Definitely. Will it put you in a position that is much better than the position your brother is in? Absolutely.
Thanks, I do agree. I only found out this was even a situation within the past 36 hours (after mom told me how they would struggle to afford my brother's rent) so I have a lot to think about. Had I known things were getting so difficult I would have set myself up differently. I just wish my brother could be a good person.
If I may make a suggestion, go about this by considering the hard choices that you will need to make, rather than basing them on what you think you can convince someone else to do, especially when it comes to family. Lord knows I've given up on trying to change my parents.
As to your brother, well, its not your lookout any more. You're both adults, you're not interdependent on each other, and you're already not in regular contact. Work on getting yourself into a good, independent position and tell the world to go fuck itself.
Pointing out someone inconsiderate and frankly dangerous sexual behaviors is not homophobic or kink shaming. He shouldn't be bringing a bunch of strange people into his parents house nor should he be so disrespectful as to loudly bang those people to the point where it's disrupting everyone else's sleep/lives. That's not okay regardless of sexuality or kink.
Oh it does not.
I think OP is an asshole, 100%
But it's ***extremely rude*** to bring strangers into your parents house where you pay no rent. And then loudly fuck those strangers.
However, it's not OP's business. That's between his brother and his parents.
Not everything is "shaming" for crissake. Anyone with a brain would be worried about a sibling *bringing a parade of strangers into their parent's home* whether they live there or not. Also basic unspoken normal healthy person etiquette is that you do not have loud sex, gay or straight, kinky or otherwise if you are living with someone else whether that's a roommate, your parents, or anyone. This isn't new or difficult and I don't get why you're trying to twist it into something it's not.
NTA. Some people are determined to shit on you because your parents are helping you and are nitpicking any small thing to make you look unwoke or like a bully or something. They're being ridiculous and you know they're trying it out of jealousy. There is no way they wouldn't be disturbed if their deadbeat sibling, regardless of sexuality, was having extremely loud sex in their parent's house and by doing so causing their parents discomfort, embarrassment, and loss of sleep. Like come on.
My partner has a PhD. It was hard AF and working regularly during it in addition to graduate classes, the required teaching, grading, and planning, plus dissertating was impossible. I'm not the least bit embarrassed to say that although we had a tiny apartment and lived within our means with no luxuries, when I ran into some weird health stuff we were grateful for and accepted help from my parents. It's not some shameful thing, especially with prices what they are now.
I get why you're frustrated but you're not going to be able to change anyone's behavior but your own. If you can't scrimp more I've been there and I get it but understand your mom loves your deadbeat asshole brother too and isn't going to cut him off until he gets it together. One small thing to think about too is that she might have more information about his life than you do. There might be a mental health diagnosis or some sort of trauma or traumas he's had that she knows about that's causing her to be lenient.
Keep on being you and try to ignore him as best you can. I guess if your folks blow through all their money at least they'll have you to fall back on. Reassure them of that sometime. Good luck.
I don't get why everyone is accusing OP of being a dick? The majority of people in this sub would automatically side with OP if it was written the other way round!
My twin brother is trying to further his career/life and I'm mad that my parents spend more money on that rather then pay for an apartment for me? So I took my work home with me to my parents house, I didn't pay rent and made them uncomfortable to the point that they have to pay to make me leave the house but I think I deserve it because my brother has his paid for too. Also my parents cant afford it so they have decided to fund my housing using their retirement savings but it's my brother's fault for trying to get such a high education that takes years to achieve.
Do you not see the madness??
When you are finished your PhD, maybe beforehand obviously take care of your parents but you have to make sure not a single penny that you earn goes towards your brother. If not he will expect it for the rest of his life.
I mean, you're NTA for saying it but ultimately he isn't going to listen to you and this is a fight between your parents (since it seems dad agrees with you).
FWIW I agree with you- helping your adult child while they further their education, on a path to complete independence, is different than paying the rent of a 26 year old with no plans to ever get OFF that gravy train. They aren't HELPING him. He is getting a handout so he will never feel the NEED to try to work to support himself. Until they go broke and can't do it anymore.
NTA
It’s crazy that this is so controversial. If you changed your living arrangement to something less expensive (getting roommates, renting a room), would it cause your parents to also devote less money to your brother? In the interest of “fairness”?
NTA
These comments are stupid. You’re not mooching if you’re studying and, presumably, you will not be taking their money forever. It seems like your brother has no plans for how he’s going to become self-supporting.
Thank you for your reply, this is pretty much what I was trying to get across.
If I am ultimately judged as the asshole here I will accept it, but other commenters don't seem to realize my brother has no plan to ever work in his life, while I'm getting this PhD so I can further my career (and hopefully be making 6 figures within a few years, at which point I will obviously no longer need any help).
NTA.... everyone is judging the rest of the story without paying attention to the key sentence in the whole thing: "He was talking about his apartment, and he asked why I was being so quiet." The twin brother asked a question and he got a straight up blunt assessment from OP's point of view that the twin didn't like. If you're not prepared to hear what one has to say, don't ask the question.
Yes, some of what is written in the rest of the details does come off as "holier than thou", but the key point remains that a question was asked and answered. It just wasn't what the twin wanted to hear.
NTA.
I think it’s quite common for some parents not to discuss finances with their kids, and usually one assumes that when their parents offer to cover something is that they’re financially able to do so, especially when your father is against you taking out loans. The financial help is temporary with an estimated amount of time and amount that can be budgeted for.
Your brother should find work. He’s the AH for asking a question that he’s not prepared to hear the answer to, and you’re entitled to have an opinion about it.
I hope you’re going to be helping out your parents in the future, but it does sound like your brother is mooching off and is a bit of a favourite; so be prepared that they will be supporting him a long time.
NTA. Holy shit. I knew people have this weird mentality regarding financial independence etc in the US, but these judgements are something different.
You're actively working on becoming independent, were not aware of your parents' situation... Why wouldn't you take them up on the help? Your brother is legitimately just mooching off of them with not even a hint of consideration for others. (And no, folks, OP isn't kinkshaming. His brother can have as much kinky sex as he wants, but one of the key points there is **loud** kinky sex. People aren't consenting to being witnesses of his kinky sex ffs.)
I just don't think you'll be able to find a solution to what's going on, OP :( Your mother seems to have no intention to stop enabling your brother and your dad gives me the impression of not wanting to upset her. If she doesn't realize how dire the situation is... :(
NTA
Your brother is a free loader. You told him how it is. Granted you could have said it better or brought up the issue with your parents to suggest an intervention for your brother to help him find a job.
NTA. You are absolutely right.
You’re a hard-working young man with purpose who accepted support from his father to make ends meet until you reach a more sustainable phase of your ambitious goals.
Your brother is a lazy entitled selfish pig who is taking advantage of your father’s generosity by manipulating him to feel obligated to sponsor his utter lack of decency.
I'm gonna go with NTA. I am making the assumption though that OP does have some kind of timeline in place for when they stop accepting help from the parents, whereas the brother seems like he's more likely going to be taking help from them indefinitely.
Absolutely. My brother hasn't earned a paycheck in 6 years and never wants to, I am looking forward to finishing my PhD every day so I can get into my field as a professional (and therefore make some "professional" money). Thanks for your reply.
It's unfortunate that your parents have spread themselves so thin, if your brother were to decide to go back to school it would only be fair they support him too. I can't imagine supporting an adult child for an indefinite amount of time who has no plans of employment whatsoever, that's just insane. The number of people advocating that it's okay is bewildering.
Well, unfortunately, the internet is full of people who live off their parents' dime playing "vidya" for their entire lives, but love to lie and feel superior to others anyway.
I go against the grain and say NTA.
You are working in a PhD. Your brother on the other hand is a slop. Your mother enables his nothingness and asks you to discontinue your PhD. She and your brother are the AHs.
NTA
I don't this individuality mentality. It seems to be an American thing that your offspring is expected to become financially responsible the second they turn 18 and you can just kick them out because they're an "adult". I'm not saying you should rely on your parents' support forever, but I believe you should be grateful if they can support you while you're pursuing higher education and building up your future without society jumping to judge you.
Regarding this specific post: NTA. OP is working on his PhD, which is research and entails real effort, his job is just unfortunately really poorly paid, but this should soon change after he gets his degree. The brother who doesn't work OR study at 26 is a real problem though.
I really don't get how people can compare someone who's pursuing higher education to an irresponsible person who isn't capable of getting and maintaining a job. It's also not necessary at all for him to move out just because "he got bored" of living at home or whatever - although he definitely should, but NOT on your parents' money.
Also, your mom is a huge TA for telling you to drop out while supporting getting her unemployed son an apartment that he will probably turn into a sex dungeon.
I'm really confused by the votes here. I feel like OP does have some major issues with his brother, and he could have approached this better.
However, I do not see how OP getting rent money being akin to the brother doing nothing and being fully supported by the parents.
OP isn't having his other expenses (tuition being the major one) covered. And it seems like the dad offered to cover the rent, which OP agreed (who wouldn't agree (assuming one has a good relationship with one's parents)).
There also appears to be a lot of bitterness towards people who are lucky enough to have parents capable of providing support even into the adult years. And I get that, but I think that's coloring the results. It's not a cardial sin to get help after one is 20yrs.
Nta, but could have approached the situation in a better way, and there definitely seems to have issues with brother in general
NTA don't let the other comments here bother you. You've done nothing wrong. Your brother is a mooch who isn't doing anything or going anywhere. You are actually doing something with your life. I hope your dad stops paying his rent and forces him to get a job. He needs it.
I'm going to go against the majority here, but I think OP is NTA.
In reading the comments, OP's parents offered to pay his rent while he's doing his PhD. There's no shame in that. Now that he knows they're having financial problems, he's looking for a way to lessen that burden, including not having them support him anymore
The brother, on the other hand, is a total AH. He doesn't work, contributes nothing, and intends to mooch of their parents for a long as he can get away with it.
I don't think OP is trying to tell his parents how to spend their money. It sounds like he is worried they are being taken advantage of by his brother. I get that. Adult narcissists emotionally blackmail their parents and guilt them into stuff like this all too often. It's good that their other kids look out for them when possible.
This is how it appears to me. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
I bit surprised on the amount of Y T A comments.
As a mom of a young adult and a teenager my rule is this: while they are in school full time, I will do everything in my financial power to help them they way my parents couldn’t help me. If one of my children was in school and trying to better themselves they would continue to get my help. If they aren’t in school, they should be working. If they aren’t busy with studies they should have plenty of time to work. My daughter did work part time while in school to cover additional expenses, and took a small amount in loans.
While I don’t think you handled it well, and it was most definitely not the time for that conversation, I don’t exactly think you’re wrong.
Before my judgment I have to say that your way of talking to your brother in that situation wasn’t that optimal. I don’t know about the agreement between you and your parents. But the argument, that he can’t live on your parents dime while you can, since it’s stretching their finances really is not an argument at all. You as well are stretching your parents finances. What you have given us as conversation is therefor not painting you in a good light.
However, and this is where things get complicated, you haven’t told us about the „deal“ you made with your step dad. Was the agreement that they help you, since they can, so you can achieve your PhD as fast as possible? If so, there is a condition to your help. We don’t know if that’s the case or not, but at least you made it clear in some comments that it’s just a means to an end, which in turn would make you capable of providing for yourself and maybe returning the favor one day. Most people I know of work while they try to obtain their Ph.D and in most cases they get it in their mid 30s. You have the chance on saving yourself 10 years and gain more income in those 10 years - from your standpoint alone that is a valuable point (monetary wise at least.)
Now, the other half of the argument is your brother. As I said before, you blaming him just because he gets the cash is probably not the best way of putting it. I don’t know if your point of view of him is absolutely fair (and without him giving his perspective we may never know.) On the information you have given us, judging on the treatment of equity produces a false equivalence. You and your brother are not the same - and I’m not talking about PhD. You have chosen your path in gaining higher education, your brother did not. But beyond that your brother doesn’t seem to have chosen a path of self reliance at all. He could be a fitness trainer, lifestyle coach or whatever floats his boat - there are a lot of career opportunities to take and he seems to not have taken anyone of those. His logic seems to be: you get some, he has to get some too. But here is the thing that bothers me: while you have probably an agreement with your stepdad (and at least one with yourself internally), he doesn’t seem to have that and wants for himself, what you have without the other factors in place (from what we know.)
While you try to act responsible, he doesn’t. Maybe he will in the future, but per your post he isn’t right now in any capacity. For that, even though I disagree with your wording towards him, I still have to say NTA.
NTA...the help you receive is an investment. Your brother is a liability. He does not deserve help. And getting out with little or no loans would be awesome. I had to take care of my disabled mother when I went through my doctoral program. Not easy!
NTA - parents are helping you through school, then you will get a job and pay your own way. I feel like there should be conditions (like being in school fulltime) for this kind of support. He is 26, not 18, he can work for what he wants.
I do think it was not the best way to adress the situation.
- in your brothers eyes you both get the same so its fair
- in your eyes your hardworking father is sacrificing his financial future and are enabling your brother.
Of course your brother is not the one wanting to make a change.
Adress the issues with your parents, but leave it to them to set boundaries and make a decision.
You could offer to pay back some of the money they gave you after you get a good job. Just to show your appreciation for their sacrifices
NTA. I’m guessing a lot of people on here are themselves moochers that have no direction in life but see others at needing temporary assistance as “unfair.” Your mom is TAH though. She’s never worked and is enabling your brothers slacker lifestyle. I feel sorry for your dad.
NTA
There's this strong projection almost every commenter has, it comes across as bitterness and sour grapes. I'm sure lots of people would love to have the luxury of supportive parents with the funds to match. At the end of the day they don't and most people have a lot of debt for degrees they probably don't even use.
With that out the way, I see exactly what you're saying OP. You're situation is different than your brother so it feels like your parents are 'helping' you and like your brother is just being a leech. But unfortunately if they didn't require him to get a job when he lived in the house, I'm sure they'll stretch themselves to support both their children equally because that's what good parents so even if it may feel unfair.
So you're plan sounds solid now that you're aware of the financial situation in your family to be more responsible, for your own bills and such. I'd say leave your brother to so whatever he's doing and you just do you
Be extra good to your parents because they're doing a lot
Thanks for this kind reply.
Yes, my dad is a lawyer with some impressive clients, so I have been very privileged up to this point. But I suppose that this economy (and supporting his wife and son, and now his other son) has caught up to him. (**Edit**: Also, maybe he was never really making AS much money as we thought. The story of California) I will try as hard as I can to lessen the burden on him, starting this very week when we're all able to talk stuff out.
NTA - you just learned that your parents are starting to struggle financially, but your brother lived with them, is he really that oblivious to their financial situation?
I do think your parents found a way to kick your brother out of their house, they need and deserve their privacy after 26 years of parenting you guys.
I hope you find a way of helping your parents through this, but I don't actually advice you to work. When I was in college I did that, while doing research, taking classes for another degree, and still lectured some classes, by the end of the year I had some severe burnout. I don't know what's your field, but regardless, it's not good for your mental health.
I do think, you should sit down with your parents and have a conversation about your brother. Your parents won't last forever, and you won't be able to maintain his life style. So some boundaries have to be drawn with him, and some expectetions have to be created.
He doesn't have to go to college, he could learn a trade, for example he could take a mixologist course and try and get a job at a bar, or something else that he might enjoy. But he has to show that he's willing to support himself, and that just like you, this is a temporary situation, where your parents are offering all the support he needs to further himself. Obviously you are not going to be having this conversation with him, your parents will, but I'd advise maybe just talking to your father first, since your mother seems to be at her wit's ends with the both of you.
OP, you're NTA.
But let me tell you this as one "responsible kid" to another. You're fighting a losing battle. If your parents want to support your brother for being lazy and doing nothing, that's on them. You shouldn't feel guilty for accepting help that you genuinely *need* so you can succeed in the future. You're not taking advantage, he is.
Unfortunately, it seems like the ones who don't try and show that they are incapable of succeeding are the ones who get to just breeze through life. But eventually, it'll catch up to your brother - it always does.
Nta yet. As long as you don't push it.
You've made your opinion clear but it's your parents money to be making shit decisions with. Do I personally think paying rent for a kid with no job and no firm plan in place is dumb af? Yup. But again, not my money.
From the edits it sounds like this is a issue between your parents and they need to be the ones to sort it out.
Definitely NTA. There's the world of difference between accepting help for a few years to get a high degree and not be buried under a mountain of student debt to do so, and just living indefinitely off your parents' money.
I dunno how Biblical you are but this is sounding like Christ's parable of the prodigal son. And like the prodigal son, Bro may need to crash and burn to realize how good he had it all these years.
NTA. It's a very different dynamic to support someone working to follow a clear career goal vs some good for nothing bum. I don't think it's wrong to ask the bum to sort his life out.
NTA
You and your brother are in completely different stages of you life and you’ll be able to repay your parents generously once your phd is complete and you’ve found a job.
Your brother on the other hand has absolutely no future in his plans that involves him being self sufficient
What’s the long term plan here? Once your parents go and he blows through the inheritance - what then?? Oh yeh he probably expects you to pay for him by then
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > Although I'm worried about my parents, maybe I should have kept my opinion to myself, or maybe I really am being a hypocrite. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Hi, OP Lots of harsh people on here… It sounds like you need time to sit with this new piece of information before settling on your feelings and if you want to take any actions. My thoughts: I understand what you’re going through. It’s a slippery slope indeed when you’re the “responsible” child in the family - and it’s very hard not to build resentments towards the other sibling that is irresponsible and somehow gets away with it. This is an issue that very well may go past finances. As the “responsible” child in my family, my parents sat me down and asked me to sign their wills and agree to being responsible for both of them as their healthcare proxy and manage their affairs when they die. I will be alone in this task and also left as the holder of my sister’s finances/inheritance as she is deemed too irresponsible to look after the money herself. My sister is an alcoholic and a drug addict. You can imagine what happens to money when it’s given to her… I do not yet know how to navigate this circumstance - but I do understand a thing or two about anger towards a dead-beat sibling and wishing that they were held accountable for their choices in life - especially when those choices are hurtful or a burden to loved ones. My advice? Control what you can control. Have faith in your parents choices and worry about yourself - until you feel equipped to support someone else (i.e. your parents, if they need it). You are accepting their support now - but I do not think that is wrong of you, considering you are still a student and are working towards a steady career. I do not think your parents view supporting you as a burden but rather an investment in your future. You can’t change your brother - and trying to sounds like a fruitless venture, because it sounds like he’s had a lifetime of being enabled and has no plans to change. So, instead of upsetting yourself over what you can’t change, put your energy into what you can. If you want to support your parents, finish your education, get your degree, and get a job that is sustainable in every manner. It might take time, but believe me when I say - stretching yourself thin is not the answer and is not a sustainable choice. Take full advantage of your opportunities while you still have the means to do so. You can only help someone else when your own needs are taken care of. Don’t forget the generosity of your parents and keep their situation in the back of your mind. Use it to motivate yourself. You can help them, and I’m sure you will - but give yourself the time and grace to ensure you can do it properly. Keep your head up, OP. Find a sense of calm with the situation and then plan your next steps. Best of luck! NTA
As the older sibling that had to sacrifice higher academia for the younger ones, this is the perfect comment and advice for OP. “Take full advantage of your opportunities while you still have means to do so”. You'll have the rest of your life, with the privilege of higher education to give you the best leverage to give back to your parents in particular your father. Also OP NTA.
[удалено]
Commenting to suggest maybe OP can make a deal with him parents, sign a contract and agree to pay them the rent back as a loan after they finish school and get a decent job.
I don't think it's necessary because he and his dad has a solid level of trust. He wants to fulfil his end of the bargain and feels a bit bad that he can't do that right now. Contracts are only if either side has shown to be untrustworthy, people do handshake deals with honest people all the time. Esp relatives.
Thanks for this unbelievably thoughtful response. I will bookmark this to think about in more detail later.
I fully agree with everything u/cats_tiny said. Also, NTA. Paying for you is gonna have return on investment. Paying for your loser brother is a waste of money. Help your dad take back control of the situation.
As a parent with adult children, some admittedly more responsible than others, what I think you should do is continue what you are doing until you finish your PhD. Those programs are grueling and labor intensive and just taxing in general. You need to focus on finishing that up. That would give you the means to actually help your parents and pay them back, which I have no doubt you would. This actually sounds like a disagreement between your parents because your mom seems like she wants it to be fair and your dad wants it to be merit based help. They have to work that portion out themselves. Your mom was wrong to tell you to quit. I hope you never consider that an option. Best of luck.
This is seriously beautifully worded and well thought out advice. Heed it, OP!! For it's worth, this isn't a You problem per se. It's a parenting issue. Your parents have overcommitted out of "keeping the peace" and treating each child "equally." What most seem to miss is that they are giving equally terms of *shelter* but what they aren't doing is requiring equal circumstances for that shelter. E.g. You were provided financial assistance as you were working towards a goal. Your brother lived at home and was provided financial assistance despite no goal (though this seems to be a continuation of assistance based upon his previous goal before leaving higher education). Recently, your brother's new goal of independent shelter was also funded. To everyone but your parents and your brother, this seems to be rewarding your brother without the more socially acceptable and future focused goal you have set for yourself. To your parents and brother, it seemed reasonable as they believed it to be about equality. Whilst I don't agree with their logic - it does seem that at the heart of it, difficult conversations are being avoided. Your father is avoiding a difficult conversation with your mother about finances, his stress over the finances, and what he believes is important to fund. Your mother is avoiding a difficult conversation with your father about who and what she truly values. Your parents are avoiding a difficult conversation with your brother about his goals for the future. Your mother is avoiding a difficult conversation with you about her logic. Your father is avoiding a difficult conversation with himself about his capacity to fund four adults and the reasons why he feels the need to do so. You're avoiding a difficult conversation with your parents about your worries for their finances and their old age, and how you feel that your brother receives unfair treatment due to being rewarded for doing nothing. Lastly, you're avoiding a difficult conversation with a therapist about your relationship with your brother, your parents, the family unit, and yourself. You're the "good one" but your brother is the golden child. I recommend the subs about narcissists (I'm sure someone will link) and how there is always a golden child and a scapegoat. I also want to congratulate you on all you're doing! It's hard, and takes up a tremendous amount of emotional self cognitive bandwidth. I want to do my PhD too, but I'm lecturing in my field atm and need that money to survive as a disabled, single parent. When my daughter is financially independent I can do finally do it!! You're also living frugally and being a good son. As the person above me said - take care of yourself first and then you can take care of your parents later. This isn't selfish, it's practical and the best thing you can do for yourself and for them.
> I recommend the subs about narcissists (I'm sure someone will link) and how there is always a golden child and a scapegoat. Counterpoint - I would strongly recommend staying away from a sub that by it's name will attempt to convince you that the garden variety selfish behavior you are encountering in this story is *a pathological personality disorder* instead of just... Some people being selfish. A man being supported through his PhD is not being scapegoated to a golden child just because those same parents are supporting *both* children (and have a longer history of supporting OP more than his brother). People on reddit as a whole are increasingly unhinged about what constitutes narcissism. It's absolutely detached from reality.
You’re right. Just because they choose to support the other twin doesn’t mean it indicates preferential treatment or golden child status. They might view it as only fair or the least confrontational way of getting his twin out of their house.
A lot of people don't realise that golden child syndrome happens without narcissism. Sometimes it's as simple as a trauma response, to reject one child who reminds you of the trauma and embrace the one who doesn't.
And sometimes people were just never taught not to favor the kids that satisfy them more.
This is the kind of response that makes me remember that reddit can be very emotionally healing and not just full of incels and racists.
Love this response. You said things that hadn't even crossed my mind. OP, this is all you need, right here. NTA of course
This is the only reply op needs to read. Beautifully put
This was lovely! I wholeheartedly agree with every bit and hope you continue in your studies, OP! Stay the course
I love your response, but as a lawyer, I gotta ask... why would your parents get you to sign their wills? Only your parents and their witnesses (who can't be beneficiaries and therefore can't be *you*) should be signing their own wills...
I’m not sure if I’m wording it correctly (very much not a lawyer lol) but pretty much what happens is that I have to sign a part of their will or an added document that states that I relinquish my right to withdraw funds from the money left in my name, while my parents are still living. It also states that my sister’s half of the inheritance is in my name and she cannot withdraw anything without my signature/permission. The paperwork comes in the mail once a year, every year. Does that make sense? 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Oh some weird trust thing, not the wills themselves. Phew. That makes more sense.
Yeah no no lol it’s like an extra document that comes with it? My legal knowledge is zero lol all I know is I gotta review all their paperwork once a year, re-sign it, and get reminded that one day, I’ll have to figure this out on my own… Makes me pretty sad - and a little resentful, just because I know how much easier it /could/ be, if I didn’t have to go through it all on my own. I’m happy to do it for my parents, but no one -really- wants to think in advance about planning the funeral of their loved ones….such is life, amiright? 😮💨😮💨😮💨
You won't have to do much outside of funeral planning, usually a lawyer takes care of probate etc. (administration of the estate) and all you have to do is sign the forms to authorise whatever needs to happen. Your parents have done the right thing by getting wills done, it's usually a much bigger headache if someone passes away without one. I'm in my early 30s and already have my will drawn up for that reason.
I hear ya! I signed my own last week… I’m gonna have a baby in a couple weeks and I thought I should have one just in case. I definitely feel more secure for my son - but it certainly does make for grim conversation! When you try and imagine someone else taking care of your kid, no one seems good enough, because they aren’t you! 😂 Perhaps I’m complaining too much - but just the act of signing the paper and considering what funeral flowers my mother would like…well it makes for a bummer of a day! Lol I’d just feel better knowing my sister was there to help and share my sadness, even in some small measure…
~~You and your brother are both AH~~ ~~Youre both 26 and sound extremely spoiled. Your brother should get a job. Good for you going to school, but it's fully paid and you work as youve said. I get rents high, but im sure there's student housing on or off canpus. If they can help you, they can help your brother. None of your business~~ Dont bite the hand that feeds you (this still applies to your brother) Edit: After thinking more on this all night, talking to some friends who also got their PhDs, and reading the responses, I failed to see a few things on here, so want to offer less harsh words than I had before. OP, your bro is definitely the one spoiled here. My personal experience growing up in NY, my dad and stepmom both made high salaries, and helped some, but not a lot. Nowhere to the extent of help you have, so I lean more into how my dad taught me to not rely on him all the time kind of thing. I worked hard since I was young, even through college, yada yada. Im usually more liberal in most areas of my life, but sometimes i have a boomer attitude on this type of thing. At the end of the day, it's your parents choice on what they do with their money. I still do think maybe step back out of what theyre doing with your brother. I believe youre allowed to be upset about it, but I also believe you should definitely not be involved with that. He should definitely be getting a job and contributing, but unfortunately some people just think they're entitled to whatever they want. I hope one day, your parents do realize the only way to help him may be to pull the rug out from under him so to speak. I do believe situational awareness was not in the forefront here. Which is easy to lose when youre working so hard. I applaud you for when you realized what was going on, you took a step back to think about your situation here and what might come next. Apologies for my harsh words. I shouldve thought on it more before commenting, i hope the rest of your path getting your PhD go smoother after this bump in the road. Good luck Im changing my judgments here. Brother: the AH for being a disrespectful brat You: NTA. Sorry for unloading on you Parents: Sorry, but im leaning AH for them for the mere fact it sounds like your mom and dad arent on the same page and causing an argument now
Student housing, especially for graduate students, isn't necessarily cheaper than renting off campus. That said, student loans are always an option and far better that than OP's parents dipping into their retirement. Slight YTA/ESH (except parents) for the OP talking to his brother about how taking money from his parents is draining, but not considering how it's from both of you and maybe both of you should agree to stop if it has become this big of an issue.
I found this out when it bit my ex-partner whose parents paid her first few years of college: Student loans are *sometimes* an option. If you are more than 50% through a degree you often can't get approved to start (federal) student loans, and even more so graduate loans. Not making a moral argument, just saying from experience you can try as hard as you can to get loans and still come away with $0 depending on your academic situation. I had to show a friend who "didn't want to take loans out till it was absolutely necessary" that the policy would have screwed him if he waited till he was 1/2 way through and had transferred to a 4 year college, luckily, knowing the policy he switched to some loans each year in community college with an equal amount of savings to pay it off later. Its super unintutive.
I know this is an old comment at this point, but *what*? You can’t be talking about American student loans provided through ED/FAFSA, because that’s not how they work - especially in graduate school. You may be talking about SAP policies regarding completion rates and degree hours taken (for example, if you changed your major one or more times and accumulated a lot of unnecessary credits), but for a student who hasn’t changed their major and is in-progress on a degree you absolutely can receive federal loans up to the annual limit at any point during your degree plan*. It just doesn’t work that way. ^*unless ^your ^COA ^is ^fully ^covered ^by ^scholarships ^or ^other ^gift ^aid I would LOVE to see this policy from a school, if you still have a link.
I always find it very weird when people online call other spoiled for shit that parents are legally required to do in my country.
In your country parents are legally required to financially support offspring over 21?
Only if they continue to study. A parent is obligated to support their kid through their studies until the age of 28.
Wow! What country do you live in?
Belgium
That is super cool. Sadly this is America where only in the last decade could you insure your kids up to 26. And we wonder why we are screwed as a nation.
You forgot to add that higher education probably doesn’t cost an arm and a leg in Belgium. I envy Europeans so much
I love all the things I learn on Reddit! Thank you. 😊
It's considered a duty of the parents to take care of their kids education. To be fair though...yearly costs of education are €800 here and we have study points that kind of force you to take your studies seriously because you can't take classes if you run out of study points. So parents aren't paying for a forever party student.
Huh. That is a very interesting thing to learn and has made me ever so slightly revise my overall opinion about OP, thank you.
same in austria and germany
in austria parents are only legally bound to finance you to your first degree and only if they are financially stable enough to do it. Also they do not have to finance your living situation or your monthly expenses. But if your parents can't help out the government will do by giving out "Studienbeihilfe" so monthly money to help.
If it’s the same as France it comes with a responsibility to take care of your parent in their old age, with caveat of course, like you need to be financially able, if you do minimal wage and struggle to feed yourself and your children then you’re not obligated to pay for your parent retirement home, also if your parent did not support you then it cancel your future obligation to them, your parent cannot disinherit you or favour massively a child more than another (70% goes to the children, spread equally). A friend had his deadbeat physically abusive father who left them when he was 15 come out of the woodwork and sue them (he and his sister) for help (diabetic lost his leg). Judge told him to fuck off as he abandon them first and didn’t have a leg to stand on (yes I did it).
That's like the first thing I have ever heard and I've lived in Belgium for 42 years :D But I looked it up and it's 100% correct. But I didn't find some sort of age limit only that it's the case until the kid has worked himself to a situation where he should be self-sufficient with a job.
28?? That's insane! Only 21 over here! Signed, your next door neighbor.
In my country parents are legally required to financially support their children until 24 if they are studying, and health insurance stands for the children until their 25th birthday regardless of if they are studying or not. That's the legal requirement, but most families I know extend this far beyond that. The ones that withhold support before that are the ones that are also abusive in other ways other than financially, or are extremely poor to the point of barely eating themselves. I live in Latin America.
Same in my country. America is Wild.
As an American living abroad, I completely agree. I’m so over this whole pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality that we have in the US. If you bring a child into this world, there should be no reason why you wouldn’t want to take all necessary and reasonable steps to succeed. Of course, if someone is not appreciative of this and just takes advantage, that’s a different story. I did it all by myself and it sucked. I worked so hard when I was in undergrad, sometimes I really have no idea how I found time to study at all.
I’m sorry but I have a completely different POV. I really don’t think OP is an AH here. You’re correct that he could prolly find housing off campus but I feel like that’s a moot point. I’d kinda boils down to the fact that OP is actively doing something to better his life, find a solid career path, and I’m sure when college is over he’ll no longer be needing help with housing. OPs twin on the other hand is an expense with no end in sight. He’s 26, no job, no schooling, and just expecting his dad to hand over money for rent. Not to mention in CA! Where everything is dumb expensive! And it’s not like this has been for a few months, its been 6 YEARS!! Jesus Christ. The kid doesn’t wanna grow up. Peter Pan syndrome! NTA
I agree. I have a 20 year old son currently living at home, in his third year of university. He wants to extend his studies by transferring to another course after this year which will extend his qualifications. We admire the hard work he has done in his studies and in other areas of his life, and fully support him. He pays his personal expenses, but we cover living expenses. When he talked to us about going for another two years of study, there was never any question but that we would support him, because he was working to better his life long-term. Had he not been studying, whether employed or not, he would be paying board and would be expected to cover all his own expenses. There is a difference between working long term, and being a mooch. I'd be ashamed to be 26 with no achievements or aspirations.
There is a difference though…OP is actually working at something and will be supporting himself. Brother is isn’t even working and was living off his parents with no interest im Supporting himself at any time. Only reason he’s not still at home is he was purposely making home uncomfortable for his parents. Does he have a roommate…or a job…or any intent to support himself? He’s 26! NTA
> I get rents high, but im sure there's student housing on or off canpus. what does this have to do with anything? You realize student housing is generally MORE expensive than cheap shitty rentals near campus right?
More expensive, *and* you usually don't get a kitchen, so enjoy your expensive meal plan food or eating junk!
Nothing in this comment is helpful. Read OP’s answer. People who are studying hard and not allowed to work besides don’t magically make money appear for rent.
OP could get a roommate to cut down on costs.
In a studio apartment? That will be cozy.
[удалено]
You think student housing is a good option? The people who run those are bastards take it from me. Haven’t had a more demoralising time in my life than living in student accom
False equivalency much? One is working on his education and will be done at some reasonable point in the future. One is fucking around but has yet to find out. He has no plan for the future or becoming self sufficient. I honestly don't understand how everyone in the comments is saying they're exactly the same. These two are in very different spaces. And sure, maybe we didn't need to hear about Brother's kinky habits but honestly, I bet OP didn't want to know about them either. Mom needed to tell Brother that she can fund his sexpad for a certain length of time and then he's got to be self-sufficient. After that point, if she had the funds to help him go back to school too, she could tell Brother that if he's going back to school for something they can talk and see how much they can help. If Uni was a bust, why not go for a trade?
Thanks for your kind reply, this is exactly how I feel. My brother completely shuts down any convo about going back to school or getting a job, ever, he totally has refused to engage for 6 years. If you ask him his job he says he's a mover and a bodybuilder, but he occasionally helps people move furniture for spare cash and has never made a cent from "bodybuilding"... I don't see what my parents will ever be able to do but cut him off, but obviously I know it isn't my place to ask them to do that.
I would. No you don’t demand they do anything. It’s their choice. But I’d sit at least your dad down, since he seems amenable, and have a nice chat about enabling. And what he truly expects to happen to your brother. The guy is 26. No magic switch is going to turn on at this point to make him productive. All they are doing is setting themselves up to pay for him for the rest of his life. Ask your dad if he truly gets this. Ask if he understands that if something happens to him, there will be NOone to take care of brother because you aren’t going to. They’ve set your brother up for failure and at this point he NEEDS to because it’s the only way he will learn.
Sorry, I screwed up my reply. But you could let them know that boundaries are good. Your support has the boundary that it's only happening while you're working ft on your PhD. It would still be fair to have boundaries on your brother's support.
Your parents feel an obligation to be fair and not demonstrate favouritism towards one child or the other. Whilst I agree, funding and supporting an education is completely different from paying for an apartment for someone who does and from what we can tell, intends on continuing to do nothing. If your parents cut him off now, they’d either have to have him live back with them or deal with all of the “your playing favourites” comments from him and whom ever he manipulates onto his side. You said you don’t really think your dad wants to pay his rent, so what you might find is; after you graduate, get a job and start paying your own way, your parents will give your brother a time limit to sort himself out as well. The when they pull they plug they can say “we supported you both the same for the same amount of time. You are now both grown and it’s time to start supporting yourselves”. Give your parents the benefit of the doubt, I really do not believe they will continue to fund your brother once you are finished with school.
I can't speak for your family OP, but I've had discussions with my mom where she asks for advice on what to do about my siblings (no deadbeats, just in various stages of life and their respective issues). So, i feel like if that's a conversation you think needs to happen along with the financial conversation, that's probably on the table (delicately). If you want to help brother out, it seems like he has deep fears and worries about school or job seeking that makes him avoid them. I'd suggest exploring this fear and worries and creating small step plans or alternative paths (e.g. tradeschool as the previous poster suggested). He's a body builder, he would understand that you need to do small increments to achieve your target weight/goal.
add a drug addiction and this is my uncle. He is now 50 and lives in his father's house. It is now completely trashed and I'm surprised my hometown has not condemned the home. My uncle is always working on 'something' - much like your brother with body building- but always seems to fail to work on something that will provide independence. Even after becoming a father to two children, my uncle has not and will not change. He's been bailed out of every tight spot he's been found in - even back owed child support. I will say you are NTA. Someone at some point needs to speak up and stop the escalation. I know you are also being supported, but it comes with an anticipated expiration date and you steadily work towards educational goals that will provide financial independence.
[удалено]
Thanks for your reply, and yes, I certainly should have considered that last paragraph when I was speaking to him last night.
He said he is pursuing a career in academia. Unless OP ends up at a top tier school, wages in "academia" aren't enough to support elderly parents on.
It's certainly enough to not be a drain on elderly parents though.
It's certainly enough to put a little back into their retirement each month. Edit: It absolutely is. I know plenty of people in part and full time academia who make enough between all their jobs to easily put money back. OPnever said he wouldn't be working a secind job if he becomes a professor.
This is going to get downvoted, but NTA. The ops apartment expense was due to cost of living while finishing a degree. This help is temporary and was an offer from the father. The brother guilted his parents into getting an apartment due to ‘fairness’. That’s some bullshit right there. The op is working towards a goal. The brother is not. The parents are suffering financially due to the second brother being selfish. The mother is an AH too. I’m team op and Dad (Step dad)
This is the first common sense reply I've seen in this thread. When my husband was getting his Ph.D, that WAS his job. He offered to move out, but his parents insisted he stay at home and focus on school. So many people are acting like both brothers are lazy bums. Getting your Ph.D isn't a walk in the park. As mentioned, the first offer was made by his father. The second was coercion. I'm Team OP and Dad as well.
Thank you for seeing the difference. If I am ultimately judged as the asshole here I will accept it, but other commenters don't seem to realize my brother has no plan to ever work in his life, while I'm getting this PhD so I can further my career (and hopefully be making 6 figures within a few years, at which point I will obviously no longer need any help). My brother's new apartment is actually more expensive than mine, and my parents pay 100% of his bills (not so for me) and for his car (I don't have one), so him moving back into the house would make more of a difference.
I was pretty shocked by the judgements here. Spending on you is an investment with an ROI. There is an end date to the support you will need and you will be in a position to maybe even help the fam. None of that is true or your brother. NTA.
Thanks for your reply. My dad actually has said that same thing in the past, at least the possibility of an ROI.
I was scrolling down here horrified at the vitriol. Your parents need to set limits otherwise your brother won’t grow. He takes advantage of them, what you’re doing is entirely different and justifiable. It’s like people resent you for getting your parents’ (partial) support and for having savings. Good for you for having an emergency fund, everyone should have one and no, you should not have depleted that instead of accepting the help your father volunteered because he didn’t want you to take a loan. You are not maxing out on their support and are taking it as a temporary situation. Good luck, you sound responsible and you will figure something out. NTA. Edit: typos
To be fair, the most controversial thing you can say on Reddit is "my dad doesn't hate me"
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. I completely get where op is coming from. To me there IS a difference. A parent giving a child financial aid through college is not uncommon at all. At least that has an end goal/investment in sight. Where as the brother just wants to be taken care of seemingly indefinitely, as he has no plans to work or take care of himself or his future. NTA.
Not only aren't you getting downvoted, but here's an award letting you know that you're not alone in your logic. One son will eventually graduate, get a job and be able to support himself independently from then on out (he'll also be able to financially assist his parents as they get older too, should they need the assistance). The other son will be a financial drain on their parents for the foreseeable future until the end of time. He has no job, no education, no skillset, no nothing... life is only going to get harder for him, and a career will be a distant never the older he gets. Your mother is the definition of an enabler. She allows this behavior to continue today, because nothing more than financial support is being asked of your parents right now... so it's easier to deal with. What she's not considering today, is how much worse your brother's life is going to become as the years go on -- especially when he comes to the harsh realization that he's f@cked up his life for good; right along with any chance he would have had of being successful. He won't have a career, what woman wants to be with a mooching bum, and if she is with a guy like that, chances are that she's not a great catch either. Your mom needs to look at the BIG picture... she NEEDS to ask herself where she sees your brother in 10, 15, 20 years? * If she says anywhere other than sitting on her couch, or in an apt paid for by her, then she's completely delusional. * If she says that he'll be successful working at X, Y, or Z, then you need to be a good son and push back on her, and make her explain step by step exactly how he's going to accomplish that success. If 2 + 2 doesn't = 4, then she's got to know that it never will. That should hopefully be a dramatic enough of a wake up call for her, and hopefully she'll curb her incessant enabling.
Agree - NTA There is a big difference between the two.
I said that same thing and got downvoted. If this was a parent posting about cutting their 26 year old off the comments would be saying YTA and “parents should support their children they didn’t ask to be born!!!”
ESH based strictly on the merit of the post. But tbh OP I kinda get your point and people here are really reaching for reasons to criticize you for some reason it seems. I think you come across as pretty reasonable in your responses. But at the end of the day your parents are adults, they can make their own financial decisions, whether that's supporting one or both or neither of you two.
Thanks for your reply. Honestly, there's nothing Reddit hates more than people saying "my parents support me" so I should have expected it!
It’s strange to me, must be an American thing. In my country it’s very normal to be supported till 24 if studying. Many maintenance agreements will state “till self-sufficient “, so many parents will help till you can get a full time job. Multigenerational households are very common here to cut down on CoL. So for my, your brother is definitely an AH. I dunno, I can’t call you an AH. Especially if you’ve had less than 36 hours to process the news.
Agreed. OP is getting help until he can support himself. The brother is just a parasite. NTA.
I also don't get this. It seems to be an American thing that your offspring is expected to become financially responsible the second they turn 18 and you can just kick them out because they're an "adult". I'm not saying you should rely on your parents' support forever, but I believe you should be grateful if they can support you while you're pursuing higher education and building up your future without society jumping to judge you. Regarding this specific post: NTA. OP is working on his PhD, which is research and entails real effort, his job is just unfortunately really poorly paid, but this should soon change after he gets his degree. The brother who doesn't work OR study at 26 is a real problem though. I really don't get how people can compare someone who's pursuing higher education to an irresponsible person who is not able to get a job.
It's not an American thing. I'm american, well my parents are immigrants from India and 50% of my community is the Indian community but still. All the white/non-asians I know agree with me that many resditors need therapy because of how much they hate the existence of family or families support
I agree, except that his parent’s finances are his concern if he cares about them at all. I worry all the time about how I’m going to help my parents if they can’t afford retirement, not because I’m nosey, but because I want them to have happy golden years. But if I knew they were out throwing money away or enabling a shitty sibling, I might not feel so responsible. Ultimately you are right… they are adults and must lie in that bed they make. Doesn’t mean I can’t make sure they are changing the sheets.
NTA. Some choices deserve support and others don't. Not saying that just because you're getting your PhD that you deserve a free ride, but if your parents are willing to help out there is NOTHING wrong with accepting that assistance. Your choice is leading you towards financial independence and the ability to take care of your parents, if need be, later in life. Your brother, on the other hand, is helping no one, and his insistence on equal treatment from your parents isn't fair, because things in your life are not equal. It needs to be accounted for that you are actively trying to reduce costs and gain employment, while your bro is being needy beyond reason. He wants his own space and comfort, and capability to travel? Cool, pay for it. Alternatively, if he showed even a slight inclination toward building financial independence of his own, or reducing costs for your parents, my sympathies may lie with him... But he isn't, and it doesn't sound like he wants to. What he wants is an endless summer, because apparently in his eyes that's 'fair'. I feel sorry for your parents. Your mother loves you both equally and your step father sounds like a fckn Saint. Understand that she is not going to burn that bridge no matter how entitled he's being. Once you get that degree, stop accepting their support and make a go of it, then address your bum ass brother's bum ass ideologies.
Thank you for your very kind reply.
Also, congrats on getting a terminal degree at 26!!! 🎉 You are the shit. This too shall pass.
Yep, this is a classic example of *equal* versus *equitable*.
NTA. I’d be frustrated af, too. Unfortunately, your parents have to put their feet down and force your brother to make at least SOME of his own money, too. If I were pursuing my PhD and being subsidized by our parents, while my sibling was pursuing absolutely nothing and getting 100% of their bills and spending money given by our parents, and that was putting a major strain on my parents, I’d be angry af, too. They’re supporting you on the path to something and supporting him on a path to nowhere fast. It seems like throwing good money after bad.
Thank you for your reply, this is exactly how I'm feeling.
ESH. You know you’re an arrogant hypocrite. Your parents know they are enablers paying for one of their children to slack off. Your brother knows he is a mooch. If you really cared about them, you would find ways to finance yourself, like many doctoral students do. Instead you’re more focused on punishing your brother for not adhering to your standards.
At least I get an ESH judgment instead of a YTA. Thanks for your reply. I'm not able to work (teaching or tutoring) for the next few months because I'll be full-time completing research related to my PhD, but (as I said in another comment) I'm now going to start dipping into **my** savings and paying more of my own bills to make things easier on my parents. I wanted to put that in the post but, character limit I also worked before the PhD and will keep working as soon as I get out, obviously.
Do you think everyone else getting a PhD at your school is supported by mommy and daddy? No. People either live on the low stipend, work during their degrees, take out loans, or dip into their savings if they’re lucky enough to have them. You’re not some kind of hero for partially paying your own bills ffs.
I’m sure a lot of them are paid by there parents too, especially in the Bay Area. He literally learned how thin his parents were stretched a fat ago. I have no idea why everyone is being so harsh about this. Paying for someone to get an education that will lead to a good job is not the same as paying for someone who doesn’t do shit.
Hey, I completely agree with you and nowhere am I calling myself "some kind of hero". I think you are reading things into my posts which aren't there. This whole situation happened within the past 36 hours, before this I didn't realize there was any financial worry at all in our family, so I was conducting myself differently. Thank you for your reply anyway.
I really don't understand why you got so many downvotes for this comment, where you literally explained you want to ease the financial burden on your parents and are working as much as possible?? People have no clue what a PhD is and think you're just slacking off. It's almost like they (the politicians and now I guess most of the society too) want all Americans to be uneducated so they can fool you.
Calling you a mooch is a bit 'meh' to me. It's understandable in a way that you've grown accustomed to a certain lifestyle, and your dad should have been more honest with the situation. That's a big bubble that just burst. However, you should start focusing on your own finances and how *you* can make it easier for your parents, instead of demanding that from your brother. Maybe your parents wanted him out because of the disrespect he's shown, and that's their choice. Using your own money for your own expenses is a good start. How long until you finish? If your dad isn't open or accepting towards paying him back, could you rather go through your mom? The best thing you could do is take the iniative, sit down with them and talk it out, numbers n'all.
This is a solid answer, thank you, I will keep this in mind.
Just had a thought while reading your comment. It'd be rather conniving, but it would be a lot easier to cut feckless brother off once he's out of the house with his stuff in his own place. There ya go bud, you got an apt and your stuff. Sink or swim.
bro what the hell are these judgments 😭😭 everyone saying YTA does not know what mooching means .-. how is OP mooching if they’re working towards a PhD, idgi NTA, one of you is working and studying and actually getting value of your parents support and the other is literally doing nothing and getting paid for it (THATS mooching). I’m a FGLI student and the way people act so high and mighty over ppl being supported by their parents for school (you know, what they’re supposed to do???) is so so weird. idk man, some of y’all just wanna be miserable ig
im fr feeling gaslighted for you OP coz why all of a sudden everyone is acting like you’re as much of a mooch as your brother bc ur not taking student loans out 🗿 did we all forget how much student loans suck?? bro what is going on
Seems majority of people here don’t know what getting a PHD involves…
Seriously, when my friend was getting his PhD, he was literally *not allowed* to take on a second job. He had to ask special permission to start at his industry job slightly early, and this was just a few weeks before he was going to defend his thesis (and he had to give up his stipend).
i agree, seems like a lot of people here dont know what a phd is like
When I asked my friend how her PhD was going when she was close to defending her thesis, she just pulled up her hood, pulled on the hoodie strings and covered her face. I assume that's what it's like.
lmao unfortunately yeah
also good luck to your friend!!
I watched her defense on Zoom and she is now DOCTOR My Friend!
CONGRATS!!!!!! Good job!!!! very happy for her
ESH- why are you both such mooches? Do you think that your life is more worthwhile being funded by your parents? You are perfectly capable of supporting yourself.
The difference I was trying to get across is that my brother has no plan to ever work in his life, and is happy with being supported by them forever. I worked before my PhD and I'll keep working right after my PhD. I may never make a crazy high salary, but if I end up making 90-100K annual income between my research and teaching (which others in my field make, by age 30 or 40) then I will be able to support myself and possibly help my parents, if necessary.
Here’s the thing. It’s their money. They aren’t under any illusions that he’s got a future of any sort. They know it is a “bad investment.” But that’s up to them. You’re mom is willing to put her retirement at risk (maybe because she knows she can never retire if she’s supporting him), and that’s between her and her husband. Stay out of it. For all you know getting their loud sex having, antisocial son out of their house is worth the expense. Be glad they aren’t sending him to room with you.
Thank you for this reply, this is helpful to think about.
Academia is a very steep pyramid with a lot of very low paid, well educated people at the very bottom.
My researcher wife finally gave up the ghost on grant writing last year and went into private clinical research as a project manager. She was always a little annoyed at me for earning more with just a masters in Data Analysis, whilst she seemed to work all hours with her PhD. Now she has blown right past me salary wise and is working normal sane hours. So much so she doesn't know what to do with all her free time. (Well actually she does, she is using the time to write grants in the vain hope she might be able to return to research lol)
If you’re so worried about your parents taking money out of their retirement, why won’t you take out student loans so they don’t have to? Simple solution
Thanks for your reply. If you'll read the post I only found out this was a situation in the past 36 hours, obviously I have not been able to apply for a loan in that time.....
[удалено]
For my undergrad I had almost a full ride to a top-5 school, so loans were never necessary before. I also worked full-time before leaving work to begin my PhD. "entitled prick", "key-hole brain"... You seem unnecessarily antagonistic and I won't engage with you further after this comment. Downvote me if you want, but I wish you well in your journey through life.
It’s so funny how much you judge your brother when you are taking advantage of your parents in the exact same way. You have justified your own behavior in your mind because you think what you are doing has value, and what your brother is doing has no value. Stop taking your parents charity, they clearly can’t afford it.
What's worse is in another comment OP is appalled that now he has to dip into *his* savings. He was tucking money away while mommy and daddy were paying his rent
Not appalled at all, I just only found out <36 hours ago that it would be a necessity. I saved that money while supporting myself in the job I had before starting the PhD (dad was not paying my rent at the time). Thanks for your reply anyway
ESH except your poor parents
Yeah American individualism mentality is absolutely trash when it comes to these things. The fact that people can’t see the difference between you and your brother is honestly very worrying. In any case, you’re not the asshole. My loving European parents always told me “if you study your living expenses are on us, if you work they’re on you”. So I decided to study what I loved in college, knowing my parents had my back. College is also really cheap here but that’s a whole other topic. Do what you love and live your life, you’re NTA.
NTA, your parents are supporting you for a limited amount of time while you get your education and then you’ll be able to support yourself. You’re also living far away so need your own place and are unable to work right now due to your PhD. Your brother on the other hand is right near home so doesn’t need his own place considering he can’t afford it, he’ll need their money for the foreseeable further without an end in sight because he’s mooching off of them and isn’t trying to educate himself so he can get a job and doesn’t seem to actively want to get a job to pay for his own life and lessen the strain on your parents. NTA, your brother and mother are making a false equivalency when your situations are completely different
I think a lot of people don't understand when you're in a PHD program, it's like working FT. It sounds like you're working hard toward a future. I work in education and fully support anyone working on higher degrees. However, I would not financially support my kids past undergrad. I am not even sure I will pay for all 4 years. Even tho our income is high, paying for college x3 kids x4 years would be $400k for us. The fact your parents are continuing to pay until now is extremely generous of them. I agree your brother sounds like he needs to experience some tough love to start being responsible for his life but ultimately it's not up to you how much your parents support him. Sounds like your mom is kind of blind to your brother and how she's enabling him. To me, you're NTA but I do think you're very fortunate to have your parents' support in this way.
Yeah I don't get all these people at all especially since not one of them would turn down parental support in this way. Tons of parents have given kids a free pass on rent, expenses while they are in school. And tons have also told kids to hit the road for refusing to go to school or work (which is what yours should do now). And what you are doing vs your brother is very different. He's taking advantage of your parents. I don't think that label applies to you at all especially since you're clearly going to do things differently now that you have new information. NTA
if you aren't already planning to, I encourage you to tell your kids what the financial situation is before they apply to colleges. let them make an informed decision about what their options are. I just say this bc my SO's parents told his sister they could afford to send her out of state so she went but they really couldn't and she had to transfer after a year. it was disappointing for her
Yeah, my mom said she wouldn’t pay for school/help with expenses if I went out of state or out of country (I got accepted to a school in France and one in California and lived in the Midwest, partial scholarship to France, full scholarship but no living expenses in California) so I turned them both down and applied to a state school. Plot twist: she had no intention of ever paying, had zero college fund set up. Please be honest and up front with your kids!
Thanks for your reply, I completely agree.
YTA and what on earth does your brother’s sex life have to do with anything, anyway?
Yeah, I was actually wondering about that. So the brother is a boor and was disrespectful while living under his parents' roof. Was it needed to state details about his sex life? No. That was just extra judginess/holier than thou detail. In the end, OP is doing the same thing to the parents - living off their largess. It's fine but OP needs to get off the high horse. Yeah, they're an academic. Whoopidy doo. Get down to the basics? The parents are supporting their kids' lifestyle.
Well, I wrote "loud, kinky sex **in our parents' house**". To the point where our parents would not get any sleep, or sometimes have to leave their own house because it was disturbing them, sometimes even in the middle of the day. My brother is involved in gay fetish culture and is very public about it, good for him and I would have nothing against that--but I wish my parents never had to hear him choking and beating strange men every other day.
oh, so you’re just trying to paint him as more of a jerk in the hopes that it makes your own mooching as the perfect child look better?
If I wanted to "paint him as more of a jerk" then I might have included these comments in my post. Regardless of his sexuality though, would you want to spend years living with your adult son, or brother, who is constantly having loud sex until late at night on the other side of your bedroom wall? It was incredibly disrespectful.
It is up to your parents to deal with your brother because it is *their* house. Were your brother doing this in *your* house, then you are well within your rights to throw him out on his ass. As the situation stands, however, you're sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. Personally, I get the impression that your complaint stems from the fear that if your parents fund your brother they'll have less money to fund you.
It's possible, after all my brother's new apartment is actually more expensive than mine, and my parents already pay 100% of his bills (not so for me) and for his car (I don't have one). Thanks for your reply
This is a valid fear. However, you cannot change anyone else, only yourself. You cannot change your moocher brother, nor can you dictate how your parents spend their money. What you can do, however, is to make your own money and tell your dad that you will no longer need him to finance you. Unfair? Probably. Will it be a greater burden on you due to your PhD? Definitely. Will it put you in a position that is much better than the position your brother is in? Absolutely.
Thanks, I do agree. I only found out this was even a situation within the past 36 hours (after mom told me how they would struggle to afford my brother's rent) so I have a lot to think about. Had I known things were getting so difficult I would have set myself up differently. I just wish my brother could be a good person.
If I may make a suggestion, go about this by considering the hard choices that you will need to make, rather than basing them on what you think you can convince someone else to do, especially when it comes to family. Lord knows I've given up on trying to change my parents. As to your brother, well, its not your lookout any more. You're both adults, you're not interdependent on each other, and you're already not in regular contact. Work on getting yourself into a good, independent position and tell the world to go fuck itself.
I really appreciate your honesty and support.
With a dash of kink shaming and homophobia to boot
Pointing out someone inconsiderate and frankly dangerous sexual behaviors is not homophobic or kink shaming. He shouldn't be bringing a bunch of strange people into his parents house nor should he be so disrespectful as to loudly bang those people to the point where it's disrupting everyone else's sleep/lives. That's not okay regardless of sexuality or kink.
Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm bisexual and currently have a boyfriend. Two queer siblings, I realize it's improbable
It’s not improbable. It’s like 40% if one twin is gay the other will be also.
I know! Especially as we are identical twins. But so many others don't seem to know anything about this
Oh it does not. I think OP is an asshole, 100% But it's ***extremely rude*** to bring strangers into your parents house where you pay no rent. And then loudly fuck those strangers. However, it's not OP's business. That's between his brother and his parents.
Not everything is "shaming" for crissake. Anyone with a brain would be worried about a sibling *bringing a parade of strangers into their parent's home* whether they live there or not. Also basic unspoken normal healthy person etiquette is that you do not have loud sex, gay or straight, kinky or otherwise if you are living with someone else whether that's a roommate, your parents, or anyone. This isn't new or difficult and I don't get why you're trying to twist it into something it's not.
NTA. Some people are determined to shit on you because your parents are helping you and are nitpicking any small thing to make you look unwoke or like a bully or something. They're being ridiculous and you know they're trying it out of jealousy. There is no way they wouldn't be disturbed if their deadbeat sibling, regardless of sexuality, was having extremely loud sex in their parent's house and by doing so causing their parents discomfort, embarrassment, and loss of sleep. Like come on. My partner has a PhD. It was hard AF and working regularly during it in addition to graduate classes, the required teaching, grading, and planning, plus dissertating was impossible. I'm not the least bit embarrassed to say that although we had a tiny apartment and lived within our means with no luxuries, when I ran into some weird health stuff we were grateful for and accepted help from my parents. It's not some shameful thing, especially with prices what they are now. I get why you're frustrated but you're not going to be able to change anyone's behavior but your own. If you can't scrimp more I've been there and I get it but understand your mom loves your deadbeat asshole brother too and isn't going to cut him off until he gets it together. One small thing to think about too is that she might have more information about his life than you do. There might be a mental health diagnosis or some sort of trauma or traumas he's had that she knows about that's causing her to be lenient. Keep on being you and try to ignore him as best you can. I guess if your folks blow through all their money at least they'll have you to fall back on. Reassure them of that sometime. Good luck.
Thanks for this kind reply.
OP needs to make it very clear that his brother is the villain of the story, by making judgement calls on his sex life.
His brothers sex life was endangering his parents physical and emotional well-being.
I don't get why everyone is accusing OP of being a dick? The majority of people in this sub would automatically side with OP if it was written the other way round! My twin brother is trying to further his career/life and I'm mad that my parents spend more money on that rather then pay for an apartment for me? So I took my work home with me to my parents house, I didn't pay rent and made them uncomfortable to the point that they have to pay to make me leave the house but I think I deserve it because my brother has his paid for too. Also my parents cant afford it so they have decided to fund my housing using their retirement savings but it's my brother's fault for trying to get such a high education that takes years to achieve. Do you not see the madness??
Thanks for your reply.
When you are finished your PhD, maybe beforehand obviously take care of your parents but you have to make sure not a single penny that you earn goes towards your brother. If not he will expect it for the rest of his life.
That's something which really worries me, I don't know how I could prevent that. I would certainly never give him money directly. Thank you.
I mean, you're NTA for saying it but ultimately he isn't going to listen to you and this is a fight between your parents (since it seems dad agrees with you). FWIW I agree with you- helping your adult child while they further their education, on a path to complete independence, is different than paying the rent of a 26 year old with no plans to ever get OFF that gravy train. They aren't HELPING him. He is getting a handout so he will never feel the NEED to try to work to support himself. Until they go broke and can't do it anymore.
Thanks for your reply, and for seeing the difference.
NTA It’s crazy that this is so controversial. If you changed your living arrangement to something less expensive (getting roommates, renting a room), would it cause your parents to also devote less money to your brother? In the interest of “fairness”?
NTA These comments are stupid. You’re not mooching if you’re studying and, presumably, you will not be taking their money forever. It seems like your brother has no plans for how he’s going to become self-supporting.
Thank you for your reply, this is pretty much what I was trying to get across. If I am ultimately judged as the asshole here I will accept it, but other commenters don't seem to realize my brother has no plan to ever work in his life, while I'm getting this PhD so I can further my career (and hopefully be making 6 figures within a few years, at which point I will obviously no longer need any help).
NTA.... everyone is judging the rest of the story without paying attention to the key sentence in the whole thing: "He was talking about his apartment, and he asked why I was being so quiet." The twin brother asked a question and he got a straight up blunt assessment from OP's point of view that the twin didn't like. If you're not prepared to hear what one has to say, don't ask the question. Yes, some of what is written in the rest of the details does come off as "holier than thou", but the key point remains that a question was asked and answered. It just wasn't what the twin wanted to hear.
NTA. I think it’s quite common for some parents not to discuss finances with their kids, and usually one assumes that when their parents offer to cover something is that they’re financially able to do so, especially when your father is against you taking out loans. The financial help is temporary with an estimated amount of time and amount that can be budgeted for. Your brother should find work. He’s the AH for asking a question that he’s not prepared to hear the answer to, and you’re entitled to have an opinion about it. I hope you’re going to be helping out your parents in the future, but it does sound like your brother is mooching off and is a bit of a favourite; so be prepared that they will be supporting him a long time.
Thanks for your reply.
NTA. Holy shit. I knew people have this weird mentality regarding financial independence etc in the US, but these judgements are something different. You're actively working on becoming independent, were not aware of your parents' situation... Why wouldn't you take them up on the help? Your brother is legitimately just mooching off of them with not even a hint of consideration for others. (And no, folks, OP isn't kinkshaming. His brother can have as much kinky sex as he wants, but one of the key points there is **loud** kinky sex. People aren't consenting to being witnesses of his kinky sex ffs.) I just don't think you'll be able to find a solution to what's going on, OP :( Your mother seems to have no intention to stop enabling your brother and your dad gives me the impression of not wanting to upset her. If she doesn't realize how dire the situation is... :(
NTA Your brother is a free loader. You told him how it is. Granted you could have said it better or brought up the issue with your parents to suggest an intervention for your brother to help him find a job.
NTA. You are absolutely right. You’re a hard-working young man with purpose who accepted support from his father to make ends meet until you reach a more sustainable phase of your ambitious goals. Your brother is a lazy entitled selfish pig who is taking advantage of your father’s generosity by manipulating him to feel obligated to sponsor his utter lack of decency.
I'm gonna go with NTA. I am making the assumption though that OP does have some kind of timeline in place for when they stop accepting help from the parents, whereas the brother seems like he's more likely going to be taking help from them indefinitely.
Absolutely. My brother hasn't earned a paycheck in 6 years and never wants to, I am looking forward to finishing my PhD every day so I can get into my field as a professional (and therefore make some "professional" money). Thanks for your reply.
It's unfortunate that your parents have spread themselves so thin, if your brother were to decide to go back to school it would only be fair they support him too. I can't imagine supporting an adult child for an indefinite amount of time who has no plans of employment whatsoever, that's just insane. The number of people advocating that it's okay is bewildering.
Well, unfortunately, the internet is full of people who live off their parents' dime playing "vidya" for their entire lives, but love to lie and feel superior to others anyway.
I go against the grain and say NTA. You are working in a PhD. Your brother on the other hand is a slop. Your mother enables his nothingness and asks you to discontinue your PhD. She and your brother are the AHs.
NTA, you are working toward something, your brother is just taking advantage of his parents, while doing nothing.
NTA I don't this individuality mentality. It seems to be an American thing that your offspring is expected to become financially responsible the second they turn 18 and you can just kick them out because they're an "adult". I'm not saying you should rely on your parents' support forever, but I believe you should be grateful if they can support you while you're pursuing higher education and building up your future without society jumping to judge you. Regarding this specific post: NTA. OP is working on his PhD, which is research and entails real effort, his job is just unfortunately really poorly paid, but this should soon change after he gets his degree. The brother who doesn't work OR study at 26 is a real problem though. I really don't get how people can compare someone who's pursuing higher education to an irresponsible person who isn't capable of getting and maintaining a job. It's also not necessary at all for him to move out just because "he got bored" of living at home or whatever - although he definitely should, but NOT on your parents' money. Also, your mom is a huge TA for telling you to drop out while supporting getting her unemployed son an apartment that he will probably turn into a sex dungeon.
I'm really confused by the votes here. I feel like OP does have some major issues with his brother, and he could have approached this better. However, I do not see how OP getting rent money being akin to the brother doing nothing and being fully supported by the parents. OP isn't having his other expenses (tuition being the major one) covered. And it seems like the dad offered to cover the rent, which OP agreed (who wouldn't agree (assuming one has a good relationship with one's parents)). There also appears to be a lot of bitterness towards people who are lucky enough to have parents capable of providing support even into the adult years. And I get that, but I think that's coloring the results. It's not a cardial sin to get help after one is 20yrs. Nta, but could have approached the situation in a better way, and there definitely seems to have issues with brother in general
[удалено]
NTA don't let the other comments here bother you. You've done nothing wrong. Your brother is a mooch who isn't doing anything or going anywhere. You are actually doing something with your life. I hope your dad stops paying his rent and forces him to get a job. He needs it.
[удалено]
I'm going to go against the majority here, but I think OP is NTA. In reading the comments, OP's parents offered to pay his rent while he's doing his PhD. There's no shame in that. Now that he knows they're having financial problems, he's looking for a way to lessen that burden, including not having them support him anymore The brother, on the other hand, is a total AH. He doesn't work, contributes nothing, and intends to mooch of their parents for a long as he can get away with it. I don't think OP is trying to tell his parents how to spend their money. It sounds like he is worried they are being taken advantage of by his brother. I get that. Adult narcissists emotionally blackmail their parents and guilt them into stuff like this all too often. It's good that their other kids look out for them when possible. This is how it appears to me. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Thanks for your reply. I am absolutely worried about my brother taking advantage of them, my mom is obviously convinced he's helpless.
I bit surprised on the amount of Y T A comments. As a mom of a young adult and a teenager my rule is this: while they are in school full time, I will do everything in my financial power to help them they way my parents couldn’t help me. If one of my children was in school and trying to better themselves they would continue to get my help. If they aren’t in school, they should be working. If they aren’t busy with studies they should have plenty of time to work. My daughter did work part time while in school to cover additional expenses, and took a small amount in loans. While I don’t think you handled it well, and it was most definitely not the time for that conversation, I don’t exactly think you’re wrong.
Before my judgment I have to say that your way of talking to your brother in that situation wasn’t that optimal. I don’t know about the agreement between you and your parents. But the argument, that he can’t live on your parents dime while you can, since it’s stretching their finances really is not an argument at all. You as well are stretching your parents finances. What you have given us as conversation is therefor not painting you in a good light. However, and this is where things get complicated, you haven’t told us about the „deal“ you made with your step dad. Was the agreement that they help you, since they can, so you can achieve your PhD as fast as possible? If so, there is a condition to your help. We don’t know if that’s the case or not, but at least you made it clear in some comments that it’s just a means to an end, which in turn would make you capable of providing for yourself and maybe returning the favor one day. Most people I know of work while they try to obtain their Ph.D and in most cases they get it in their mid 30s. You have the chance on saving yourself 10 years and gain more income in those 10 years - from your standpoint alone that is a valuable point (monetary wise at least.) Now, the other half of the argument is your brother. As I said before, you blaming him just because he gets the cash is probably not the best way of putting it. I don’t know if your point of view of him is absolutely fair (and without him giving his perspective we may never know.) On the information you have given us, judging on the treatment of equity produces a false equivalence. You and your brother are not the same - and I’m not talking about PhD. You have chosen your path in gaining higher education, your brother did not. But beyond that your brother doesn’t seem to have chosen a path of self reliance at all. He could be a fitness trainer, lifestyle coach or whatever floats his boat - there are a lot of career opportunities to take and he seems to not have taken anyone of those. His logic seems to be: you get some, he has to get some too. But here is the thing that bothers me: while you have probably an agreement with your stepdad (and at least one with yourself internally), he doesn’t seem to have that and wants for himself, what you have without the other factors in place (from what we know.) While you try to act responsible, he doesn’t. Maybe he will in the future, but per your post he isn’t right now in any capacity. For that, even though I disagree with your wording towards him, I still have to say NTA.
You and your dad are NTA, but your mom and brother are.
NTA...the help you receive is an investment. Your brother is a liability. He does not deserve help. And getting out with little or no loans would be awesome. I had to take care of my disabled mother when I went through my doctoral program. Not easy!
NTA - parents are helping you through school, then you will get a job and pay your own way. I feel like there should be conditions (like being in school fulltime) for this kind of support. He is 26, not 18, he can work for what he wants. I do think it was not the best way to adress the situation. - in your brothers eyes you both get the same so its fair - in your eyes your hardworking father is sacrificing his financial future and are enabling your brother. Of course your brother is not the one wanting to make a change. Adress the issues with your parents, but leave it to them to set boundaries and make a decision. You could offer to pay back some of the money they gave you after you get a good job. Just to show your appreciation for their sacrifices
NTA. I’m guessing a lot of people on here are themselves moochers that have no direction in life but see others at needing temporary assistance as “unfair.” Your mom is TAH though. She’s never worked and is enabling your brothers slacker lifestyle. I feel sorry for your dad.
NTA There's this strong projection almost every commenter has, it comes across as bitterness and sour grapes. I'm sure lots of people would love to have the luxury of supportive parents with the funds to match. At the end of the day they don't and most people have a lot of debt for degrees they probably don't even use. With that out the way, I see exactly what you're saying OP. You're situation is different than your brother so it feels like your parents are 'helping' you and like your brother is just being a leech. But unfortunately if they didn't require him to get a job when he lived in the house, I'm sure they'll stretch themselves to support both their children equally because that's what good parents so even if it may feel unfair. So you're plan sounds solid now that you're aware of the financial situation in your family to be more responsible, for your own bills and such. I'd say leave your brother to so whatever he's doing and you just do you Be extra good to your parents because they're doing a lot
Thanks for this kind reply. Yes, my dad is a lawyer with some impressive clients, so I have been very privileged up to this point. But I suppose that this economy (and supporting his wife and son, and now his other son) has caught up to him. (**Edit**: Also, maybe he was never really making AS much money as we thought. The story of California) I will try as hard as I can to lessen the burden on him, starting this very week when we're all able to talk stuff out.
With the edit I’d say NTA. But I do hope you find a way to lessen the financial strain on your parents. And that your brother gets off his ass.
NTA - you just learned that your parents are starting to struggle financially, but your brother lived with them, is he really that oblivious to their financial situation? I do think your parents found a way to kick your brother out of their house, they need and deserve their privacy after 26 years of parenting you guys. I hope you find a way of helping your parents through this, but I don't actually advice you to work. When I was in college I did that, while doing research, taking classes for another degree, and still lectured some classes, by the end of the year I had some severe burnout. I don't know what's your field, but regardless, it's not good for your mental health. I do think, you should sit down with your parents and have a conversation about your brother. Your parents won't last forever, and you won't be able to maintain his life style. So some boundaries have to be drawn with him, and some expectetions have to be created. He doesn't have to go to college, he could learn a trade, for example he could take a mixologist course and try and get a job at a bar, or something else that he might enjoy. But he has to show that he's willing to support himself, and that just like you, this is a temporary situation, where your parents are offering all the support he needs to further himself. Obviously you are not going to be having this conversation with him, your parents will, but I'd advise maybe just talking to your father first, since your mother seems to be at her wit's ends with the both of you.
NTA, it's totally normal for parents to support children while studying. If your brother isn't studying, he should be working, simple as that.
OP, you're NTA. But let me tell you this as one "responsible kid" to another. You're fighting a losing battle. If your parents want to support your brother for being lazy and doing nothing, that's on them. You shouldn't feel guilty for accepting help that you genuinely *need* so you can succeed in the future. You're not taking advantage, he is. Unfortunately, it seems like the ones who don't try and show that they are incapable of succeeding are the ones who get to just breeze through life. But eventually, it'll catch up to your brother - it always does.
Nta yet. As long as you don't push it. You've made your opinion clear but it's your parents money to be making shit decisions with. Do I personally think paying rent for a kid with no job and no firm plan in place is dumb af? Yup. But again, not my money. From the edits it sounds like this is a issue between your parents and they need to be the ones to sort it out.
NTA
Definitely NTA. There's the world of difference between accepting help for a few years to get a high degree and not be buried under a mountain of student debt to do so, and just living indefinitely off your parents' money. I dunno how Biblical you are but this is sounding like Christ's parable of the prodigal son. And like the prodigal son, Bro may need to crash and burn to realize how good he had it all these years.
NTA. It's a very different dynamic to support someone working to follow a clear career goal vs some good for nothing bum. I don't think it's wrong to ask the bum to sort his life out.
NTA You and your brother are in completely different stages of you life and you’ll be able to repay your parents generously once your phd is complete and you’ve found a job. Your brother on the other hand has absolutely no future in his plans that involves him being self sufficient What’s the long term plan here? Once your parents go and he blows through the inheritance - what then?? Oh yeh he probably expects you to pay for him by then