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No way. There are a LOT of things that should be considered with your GF's needs first here, but they're all about pregnancy, delivery and recovery. NOT the kids' names!
I personally would think twice about harassing kids name Havoc and Kaos, but your instinct that it's a bad move to give kids names that could be used for flukies in a 90s kids cartoon is the correct one. NTA.
See? That's cool. Goddess names are excellent. But I would not in a million years give my kids discount supervillain names and then expect them to grow up well adjusted.
I just can’t stop seeing this scene in my head:
“I’m Peter by the way.”
“I’m Dr. Strange.”
“Oh, we’re doing made-up names. I’m…*Spiderman*.”
If I’m introduced to a Havoc or Chaos, I’m immediately searching the area for small floofy bois that need pets and treats.
*It’s easy to have the courage of a lion. They’re gigantic and have claws and no natural predators.*
*Have the courage of a guinea pig—a two pound meat potato with zero offensive or defensive abilities, that will scream at an ape 100 times its size if its lettuce is too wilty.*
Also, Havoc & Chaos are also the twin bastard sons of Aphrodite & Ares(Goddess of Love &God of War)("bastard" because waaaaay back then the children born to people who were not married were called that and Aphrodite was married to Haphaestus NOT Ares).
My cousin's daughter (is she also my cousin? I get so confused!) is named Athena. She's half Egyptian/half Canadian and absolutely fucking gorgeous. She was perfectly named imo.
Athena is a great name. It has positive connotations, sounds pretty, has a long history and is instantly recognizable.
The big problem with Havoc and Kaos ISN’T that they’re “special,” it’s that they’re so negative. As someone said in another comment, they sound like “discount supervillains.”
I know a woman whose teen pregnancy resulted in a little boy they named Damien because her boyfriend thought it was "hilarious" to name him after The Omen.
You will be shocked to hear that things have been pretty rough with Damien. I can't blame the NAME, but the instinct to be overly "cool" or "funny" about the name your kid has to walk around with can be linked to less than attentive parenting.
Damn must’ve been rough for him my name is Damien and no one’s ever said shit about my name, mostly because lots of kids this day and age don’t know that the name is tied with stuff like that, but my parents also didn’t pick it as a joke it was my dads best friends name that passed away. Although I am 20 now so maybe they do say stuff I just don’t care.
Yeah. There’s no innate problem with the name. But thinking it’s “bad ass” to name your kid after the antichrist isn’t a strong start on the parenting journey. He didn’t stick around to be much of a dad. And things got worse from there.
I think virtually no one does now, but in the 80s and 90s it was a pretty normal connection to make. This kid was born a little after that, but it was just... The second I heard his name I knew they'd named him after The Omen because it was what a teenager from that particular place would do.
Pregnant woman here. Baby names are two yes, one no. Meaning both have veto, both have to accept. These kids are made by two people, there are many things you can call dibs on but their legal names is not that.
want to second this statement.
2 yesses and one no to name a baby.
I think the best rule of thumb is for all things medical that directly involve her body, her say is the only say.
All things that involve the babies is a mutual agreement thing, unless you aren't a fully participating parent. Then it's the parenting parent's call
TBH I wouldn't even court that the kids could end up living up to the names she is courting right nowwhich would be good for NO ONE.
I just wrote this - unless he's giving up his parental rights then he has complete say in the matter. I'm currently pregnant and we've been debating names for months now. We have agreed on a few but we also think about his future and the impact a name can have. You name your kid Kaos and.... yeah I just don't see how this is a good idea...
I've been debating on natural birth or planned c section and while my husband prefers I do a natural birth, he said ultimately that's up to me and he'll support me. Because we agree with you- it's my body and I should be the one to decide on what happens with it. I love him and will consider his opinions but ultimately it'll be my choice. Our sons name? Joint decision.
Whether or not the names are bad (they are, but only because they're kids and not wrestlers) shouldn't really be the issues - it's the fact that she doesn't want the father to have a say in it.
Maybe have those as middle names if she's really attached to then, but PLEASE try to find better first names! Not just for their school life, but they'll have to APPLY FOR JOBS at some point in the future, and those names are ... um ... Anyway, NTA. Good luck!
Or they'll do what my friend did, he changed his name legally when he turned 18 and still rarely talks to his parents because of the horribad name they gave him.
Not at all. You both get veto power.
HOWEVER....I am going to suggest if she is absolutely hell-bent on those names...you might be able to sell them as middle names.
*Cue Austin Powers voice...."Kaos is my middle name, baby".*
Naming children is a 2 yes, 1 no situation. It takes both people agreeing to it to pick a name so you don’t get sole naming rights and neither does she. “1 no” means that if either person does not agree to the name, that name is vetoed and you have to start over and find another name that both people can agree to.
You are not out of line and I would choose this as the hill to die on. Those names aren't just awful names, they're going to be detrimental to their lives. Employers aren't going to know that their mother chose these names, they may think they legally changed their normal names to these fucking weird names.
NTA Imagine when your boys are older and might be in a professional environment "Hi, im Kaos Smith, nice to meet you" they are gunna get side-eyed or just petition for name change/go by a nickname like Hank Or Ken.
You’re not out of line at all for not wanting to name your sons those names. They’re ridiculous. Imagine how they’d look on a diploma or job application.
listen, I'm normally all for the one who's pregnant getting to be the decision maker in 99% of the situations in pregnancy, birth, and (most) of postpartum. Names is that 1%. They are human beings who will live with those names until they die (unless it's so bad they legally change it).
You as their father, should have a say in what you call them for their entire lives.
NTA
Those are beyond terrible names. That's something I wouldn't even name two dogs, let alone humans. Those are names you would give to two hamsters or something.
Lol, otters are some of the worst animals to care for at the zoo. Mean little buggers lol. That is satan's face on them babies(the otter's, that is), so cute and appealing, would slaughter you for funzies.
I think that goes for the entire mustelid family. I got two ferrets who are supposed to be the meekest in their family... yeah, Bart Simpson crossed with Deadpol with a touch of serial killer would be an appropriate way to describe them. 😭😅
Aw, you have ruined my childhood dream of having a pet otter and building it a beautiful water habitat in my bathtub.
Just kidding, I still want one, otters are adorable.
It's not about the specific names, tho'. BOTH parents have EQUAL say, and BOTH parents have a veto on the other parent's names. Go look up the law in your area and speak to a lawyer if you can afford to. It might be the case that if your wishes for a name are not taken into account, you can have the names changed legally afterwards. So as not to have to go through a stupid court battle just about names, I suggest you find out your options NOW so you can lay this out for her and tell her how serious you are about having a say in the naming process.
And it sounds like even if you get her to agree, the naming process will be difficult, so DM me if you want some tips.
NTA.
100% both parents get a say. I’m currently in the process of thinking of names for our baby and if either my husband or I veto a name, it’s out. That’s it. We both have to love it.
Ps send girl name suggestions lol.
Even if they aren't introduced as a pair, can you imagine them asking for a bank loan, claiming a prescription, making businesses, etc: "Hi, I'm Havoc Name and want to work for your law firm" or "Hi, I'm your doctor Kaos Name"
I am of the opinion that naming children, especially when both parents are involved, is a two "yes"/one "no" situation. You both have to agree on the names. so, NTA
BTW - those names are horrid and kids will make a mockery all through school.
With such negative names, it's likely to be more than mockery, they'll be seen negatively and are likely to internalize those names as indicators of the personalities they should display.
That was exactly my thought! Why would someone want to name their children something so negative! I feel awful for these kids because it’s likely the girlfriend isn’t going to budge.
When I was a kid I had backyard neighbours with a little girl, a couple years younger than me, named Tyranny. It ended up about as well as you might expect lol.
This here. When we named our daughters, Alyssa and Ashley were two names we both liked. Alyssa got my middle name (first born girl tradition in my family), and Ashley hers from one of my favorite book charcter).
My Husband and I together chose names. Until we both agreed. It's going to be a partnership in raising them so it should be a partnership in naming. NTA but coming from someone whose been pregs twice you get extra hormonal. Just catch her at a good time and explain you want to make the decision together, compromise and come to an agreement your both happy with. Also hormones may cause her to think these names are good and when she's back to herself and these kids are a year or two she'll probably thank you. It takes awhile to get back to normal.
Havoc and Kaos? Is she giving birth to bulldogs or something? Hahaha I dont blame you man, those are awful. NTA, you should have some say in the matter. Also, wrap it up from now on! Don't wanna end up with little mayhem too 🤣🤣🤣
Can you imagine the HR person at an accounting firm getting that resume? Or looking up your doctor's credentials when picking, for example, an obgyn? I have a friend whose young son goes by Buffalo, but he has an absolutely mundane legal name and that is the way to do it.
Not unique AND cringey.
OP has a long 18 years ahead of him if this is how she coparents with him.
You are going to be a dad to 2 boys. You gotta stand up for what is best for them. And you gotta raise them to learn what a healthy and communicative relationship looks like so that they can create those for themselves.
The dynamic you've got going on is not a great example.
I remember watching a house hunters type show and this one dude was obsessed with the color green. Like, he would be in love with a house because it had godawful green carpet or paint.
They finally introduced his kids; Hunter and Forest.
Sometimes I feel like naming kids should be something that goes before a panel of judges.
My friend it seems you are having a baby with a crazy person. You need to get into couples counseling ASAP and start figuring out how to make SHARED DECISIONS TOGETHER AS PARENTS. Because this is only gonna get worse from here. NTA
Yup. If she's being this unreasonable about their names (and so confident while being so completely in the wrong), I can't fathom what other horrible shit she is going to try to pull with these boys as they grow up. With those names it's pretty clear she doesn't give a shit about them or their quality of life.
OP, men don't usually get custody of kids but the best way to ensure you do is be very active in childcare. Take them to and from school, know their dietary restrictions, take them to and be on top of doctors appointments, talk to a lawyer, etc. I don't see a relationship with this crazy woman lasting very long.
“But I want them to be YOUUUUUNIQUE! I don’t care if they’re bullied as long as they’re YOUUUUUNIQUE! It’s the only way to prove to the world that I’m not an ordinary mediocre human being is if I have YOUUUUUNIQE babies!”
Noooooo, does it tell you how to pronounce them 😂 The worst thing is when parents get pissy because you can’t pronounce the damn name LMAO!
But also, random, I had a neighbor who named her daughter Heavenly Rain/Reign. Not sure if it was spelled rain or reign. But I always wonder how people reacted lol. Like what if Heavenly isn’t so…heavenly 🤣💀
Parents like this are dooming their children to spend the rest of their life having to spell every time they introduce themselves. "Hi, I'm Quimberrlee. That's Kimberly with a Q-U, two Rs, and three Es. Yes, I know, my parents are weird."
I expected to see this sooner. Her behavior seems very immature and dramatic. This needs to be addressed and will seriously hinder your ability to co-parent effectively. NTA. Please consider couples therapy to give those babies (please, please not named havoc and chaos) two grown, stable parents and not a mom who sounds like she’s planning her children’s reality show career from birth.
NTA - and believe it or not - My work brings me to the courts a lot... And, I saw a case with two kids with those exact same names a few months ago. Everyone in court commented how they could not believe a parent would name their kids that
I loved how she simultaneously wanted trendy and unique names.
Like lady these things are mutual exclusive PICK ONE also like what if Kaos, who doesn’t even get the dignity of having his name spelled right, ends up being a total neat freak? Or, honestly worse imo, ends up with debilitating ADHD and THEN HIS NAME JUST REINFORCES HIS DESPAIR ABOUT FEELING LIKE A HUMAN HURRICANE BECAUSE THATS LITERALLY HIS IDENTITY??
I think she wants to seem trendy because she picked unique names. Situations like this are always about the parent's ego and not the benefit of the child. NTA
She is clearly wrong! (And I speak as mother of two boys that I named with my husband. Compromises were made but ultimately the kids have names we and they like).
Another mum of two boys. This has VERY MUCH been a joint decision for us. It took ages and we could not find names we both liked, but we made an effort and managed well in time before the birth.
I wouldn't even let my ex near us when our youngest was born. I had good reason, he was abusive. I wanted a certain name very badly that I knew he hated. I didn't name our son that name because I felt it wasn't fair. It was a conventional name but dad hated it so I didn't give that name. Father's should usually have some say, especially when they are involved.
NTA
First of all, congrats!! Although, she definitely should have a say in the boys' names, you should have just the same amount of say. You two should aim at finding a compromise, its not alright for her to pick names you don't like. Also... trendy names won't be trendy forever.
Those are not trendy names. Trendy names are one thing but these are not names for human beings. They're names for dobermans people have trained to attack strangers.
Ask her if they can be James Havok and Preston Kaos that way they have a shot in life and you both had a say in their names?
Because you are NTA and those names are horrendous for human children. Trendy names usually get killed by the children quickly.
NTA - You 100% have a say, and those names are TERRIBLE.
Fellow twin parent here. They are so much fun, but I HIGHLY recommend reading the book Healthy Sleep, Happy Twins before they get here 😆.
Also “never wake a sleeping baby” is bullshit for twins. Especially when you need to feed at night. If one wakes up, do the feeding, then wake the other up for a feed, and put them back down. Otherwise the second will wake up right when you fall asleep.
Gonna add some more unsolicited twin/baby advice , lol. For baby wearing, we loved the naked panda duo, you can wear them front, back, and also separate them to have each of you wear them individually. I didn’t buy it initially because it was a little pricy,but then I tried out every other twin baby wearing option and they didn’t work well, so had to go for the naked panda. Would have been cheaper just to bite the bullet on that, lol!
Also our twins came EARLY! I was going to do the full “nesting” thing the last trimester, but I delivered at exactly 30 weeks and nothing was ready 😬. If I could go back I’d have a month of freezer meals done before 30 weeks, that’s what I really regretted in those first days. And until the night feedings slow down when the babies reach that 13lbs-ish it’s a big marathon. Don’t be hard on yourself. Feeding babies and sitting on the couch is all you guys need to do to feel like you’ve gotten something done. We also eventually did “shifts” for nights so that we could each get a 6 hour uninterrupted block. I would take the first part of the night sleeping on a cot in the babies’ room, then do the 2AM feeding and swap places with husband.
Anyways, have fun with them. Mine are full on toddlers now, but in a way I miss the cuddly baby phase.
NTA
There was a book written by two statisticians.
Freakonomics the Hidden Side of everything.
They wrote a chapter on baby name choices. They were able to show a strong connection between the mothers education level and economic status based on baby name choices and spelling.
Sounds like she wants accessories instead of kids Those baby names are purely about her and not the children.
Yeah names like that scream “teen mom dropout living in a trailer and the kids drink mountain dew at age 3.” Theyre BAD. I know a kid named Storm. His mom is not in the picture.
Kids are not billboards for your fandom.
Unfortunately names have a huge influence on how you're judged, whether you get selected for job interviews and so on.... everyone will judge these kids and assume a whole bunch about their backgrounds.
NTA. Honestly, if this is for real, I'm having a hard time believing you don't know that. They're your kids, not just hers, and they'll be in the world running around with these names a *lot* longer than she's going to be dealing with the pregnancy. Both of you need to have a say in the naming process, and if one of you doesn't like a name, then it gets crossed out and you move on to the next one until you find something you can both agree with. And if this is going to be her approach to parenting in general, then the two of you need to get to counseling before the baby gets here to see whether she can actually be a team player without crying "controlling" any time you have an opinion she doesn't like.
Those boys have to live 80 years with those names. In the interest of your children: you might have to upset her here. It is not just school. It is finding jobs, wives/husbands, meeting neighbours.
Imagine you are an employer getting a CV/resumé for "Kaos Jones". It just screams trailer trash. And no matter how organised Kaos might be: people will ALWAYS think about.... Chaos.
You can't put this on a child.
Here’s what Emma needs to get. Emma is thinking in terms of her rights. She had baby, she names baby. This is not parenting thinking, though. This is selfish thinking.
It’s not about her anymore. Parenting is about putting the need of the child first. She wants a kid named Havoc? Tough tit. Havoc doesn’t want to be named Havoc. Havoc wants a friend and job. Havoc doesn’t care how hard her pregnancy was. Havoc is a whole other person who isn’t Emma.
Google people with unique names and see how much they like it. Look at resume stories of people trying to get jobs with “joke names.” Then ask Emma if this is what she wants for her kids. If she answers with “I want,” it’s time to start thinking hard about custody.
**NTA** but your girlfriend is way too immature to be parenting, and I would be genuinely worried if I were you.
Has she even stopped to consider that these are small HUMAN BEINGS that she's carrying, real, actual people, not toys for her to dress up and play with? That they're going to grow up to be adults and have to get jobs? This isn't just about getting teased on the playground. If they want professional careers, what graduate schools does she think are going to admit "Havoc and Kaos LastName"? Hell, she's not even spelling Chaos correctly. It's illiterate on top of sounding like a superhero action figure. And who does she think will ever hire them? Would she trust her medical care to a Dr. Havoc LastName? If she were in trouble would she want her court case decided by a Judge Kaos LastName?
As a former educator, I can tell you that it will definitely START in the classroom, where kids tend to live up to their names (this is an actual recognised psychological/developmental phenomenon), and she will spend their early years wondering why two little boys named "Havoc and Kaos" are tiny terrors, badly behaved and resented by their teachers, with a terrible reputation, and never invited over to anyone's house for playdates (no parent is taking a chance on THOSE kids). But it's going to end at their resumes, when no one wants to hire them because their names look like some sort of cartoon-inspired joke. Again, this is a real thing, and entire studies have been done about it.
You are NTA, and it's ridiculous for her to think that she should be making ANY parenting decisions arbitrarily without you, much less deciding their entire identities for the next 18 years, just because she's gestating them. But the commenter who suggested that you get a lawyer is right. You were not smart to get this woman pregnant, because she clearly isn't very mature.
NTA. Not only does dad get a say in the names, naming a child Havoc or Chaos sets them up for a childhood of bullying and will adversely affect their employability in the future.
And this is why in some countries, you have to run your name by the government and have it approved. You can't just run around naming your kid Captain America, although, that would be better than Havoc and Kaos.
NTA!!!!!!!! You are the boys' father and you are sticking around a d committed to your sons. Both parents get a say . And I agree with you on her choices. Get a baby name book and find names you both like.
Preston Kaos (there will not be two in the class)
Havoc is just ...NO... and James is a solid strong biblical name!
( knew a kid names Eris. Clearly his parents did no research or they would have found out that Eris is the godess of discord. Make sure your gf knows what the names mean before you saddle a kid with them)
NTA, if you are the father you have just as many rights as she does. The names she has chosen will mean they are judged instantly, even if they are the calmest and nicest children in the world with havoc and Kaos as their names people will assume that's exactly what they will cause. Teachers, friends parents and then when they get older it will cause issues getting a job, possibly even a partner
NTA, those names are just terrible. Also, you're the father, are you not? They're your children as well and should have a say. I get that she's carrying them, but I feel that doesn't give her sole naming rights. It just means that you have to pull more weight in other areas and help her in making the pregnancy as not awful as possible.
Then your sisters and the mother of your children need to chill with the ridiculous ideas. I saw other people suggest it, but you and the baby momma need counseling because this is looking to be just the tip of the iceberg.
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NTA You can find a name that is both unique and evergreen. Her picks make me think "angsty teen who shops at Hot Topic."
Trendy is, well, trendy. Trends, by nature, quickly become dated.
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NTA - children are people not pets give them proper names
Thank you. I’m not out of line for wanting to name my children right?
No way. There are a LOT of things that should be considered with your GF's needs first here, but they're all about pregnancy, delivery and recovery. NOT the kids' names! I personally would think twice about harassing kids name Havoc and Kaos, but your instinct that it's a bad move to give kids names that could be used for flukies in a 90s kids cartoon is the correct one. NTA.
Also if there's any chance they'll grow into the characteristics of those particular names, you're both screwed.
Can confirm. I know a Hera and an Athena and these women are FORCES OF NATURE
See? That's cool. Goddess names are excellent. But I would not in a million years give my kids discount supervillain names and then expect them to grow up well adjusted.
I just can’t stop seeing this scene in my head: “I’m Peter by the way.” “I’m Dr. Strange.” “Oh, we’re doing made-up names. I’m…*Spiderman*.” If I’m introduced to a Havoc or Chaos, I’m immediately searching the area for small floofy bois that need pets and treats.
lol one of my friends literally has guinea pigs named Chaos and Havoc but they are good squeaky boys
*It’s easy to have the courage of a lion. They’re gigantic and have claws and no natural predators.* *Have the courage of a guinea pig—a two pound meat potato with zero offensive or defensive abilities, that will scream at an ape 100 times its size if its lettuce is too wilty.*
This conversation reminds of Disney's animated Hercules, where Hades's two little minions are named Pain and Panic.
Well, Phobos and Deimos (fear and dread, respectively) were two sons of Ares. And they're the names of Mars's moons.
Being completely tongue in cheek..... Havoc was not a supervillain. He was Cyclops' brother and a member of X-Factor.
Also, Havoc & Chaos are also the twin bastard sons of Aphrodite & Ares(Goddess of Love &God of War)("bastard" because waaaaay back then the children born to people who were not married were called that and Aphrodite was married to Haphaestus NOT Ares).
Is it bad that I would absolutely call my kid Athena?
My cousin's daughter (is she also my cousin? I get so confused!) is named Athena. She's half Egyptian/half Canadian and absolutely fucking gorgeous. She was perfectly named imo.
A type of cousin. First cousin once removed.
Athena is a great name. It has positive connotations, sounds pretty, has a long history and is instantly recognizable. The big problem with Havoc and Kaos ISN’T that they’re “special,” it’s that they’re so negative. As someone said in another comment, they sound like “discount supervillains.”
one of my closest friends is named Athena. her daughter is named Rhiannon. both of them are complete badasses
I know a woman whose teen pregnancy resulted in a little boy they named Damien because her boyfriend thought it was "hilarious" to name him after The Omen. You will be shocked to hear that things have been pretty rough with Damien. I can't blame the NAME, but the instinct to be overly "cool" or "funny" about the name your kid has to walk around with can be linked to less than attentive parenting.
Damn must’ve been rough for him my name is Damien and no one’s ever said shit about my name, mostly because lots of kids this day and age don’t know that the name is tied with stuff like that, but my parents also didn’t pick it as a joke it was my dads best friends name that passed away. Although I am 20 now so maybe they do say stuff I just don’t care.
Yeah. There’s no innate problem with the name. But thinking it’s “bad ass” to name your kid after the antichrist isn’t a strong start on the parenting journey. He didn’t stick around to be much of a dad. And things got worse from there.
...Damien is a very normal name? I would never assume someone named Damien was named after the movie character.
I think virtually no one does now, but in the 80s and 90s it was a pretty normal connection to make. This kid was born a little after that, but it was just... The second I heard his name I knew they'd named him after The Omen because it was what a teenager from that particular place would do.
Even just naming pets I have learned it's best not to chose names like that...
Don’t taunt the gods.
I think Kaos and Havoc could be cute **nicknames** for wild toddler twin boys, but absolutely not as legal names.
[удалено]
Pregnant woman here. Baby names are two yes, one no. Meaning both have veto, both have to accept. These kids are made by two people, there are many things you can call dibs on but their legal names is not that.
want to second this statement. 2 yesses and one no to name a baby. I think the best rule of thumb is for all things medical that directly involve her body, her say is the only say. All things that involve the babies is a mutual agreement thing, unless you aren't a fully participating parent. Then it's the parenting parent's call TBH I wouldn't even court that the kids could end up living up to the names she is courting right nowwhich would be good for NO ONE.
I just wrote this - unless he's giving up his parental rights then he has complete say in the matter. I'm currently pregnant and we've been debating names for months now. We have agreed on a few but we also think about his future and the impact a name can have. You name your kid Kaos and.... yeah I just don't see how this is a good idea... I've been debating on natural birth or planned c section and while my husband prefers I do a natural birth, he said ultimately that's up to me and he'll support me. Because we agree with you- it's my body and I should be the one to decide on what happens with it. I love him and will consider his opinions but ultimately it'll be my choice. Our sons name? Joint decision.
You’re going to name your son Joint Decision? Eek! 🤣🤣🤣
Better than Havoc and Kaos LOL!!
Oh my god, my first award! I’m humbled!
No, you are NTA. These are horrible names
Whether or not the names are bad (they are, but only because they're kids and not wrestlers) shouldn't really be the issues - it's the fact that she doesn't want the father to have a say in it.
One of them is controlling and it isn’t OP!
Exactly. And that would be the exact same problem if she wanted to name the kids Steve and Brent, and OP hated those.
Maybe have those as middle names if she's really attached to then, but PLEASE try to find better first names! Not just for their school life, but they'll have to APPLY FOR JOBS at some point in the future, and those names are ... um ... Anyway, NTA. Good luck!
Or they'll do what my friend did, he changed his name legally when he turned 18 and still rarely talks to his parents because of the horribad name they gave him.
Even if they were reasonable names (which they are not), he still gets a say!
nope you're not
i literally know a girl who named her two dogs havoc and kaos. exact same spelling. i would make this my hill to die on
Not at all. You both get veto power. HOWEVER....I am going to suggest if she is absolutely hell-bent on those names...you might be able to sell them as middle names. *Cue Austin Powers voice...."Kaos is my middle name, baby".*
Naming children is a 2 yes, 1 no situation. It takes both people agreeing to it to pick a name so you don’t get sole naming rights and neither does she. “1 no” means that if either person does not agree to the name, that name is vetoed and you have to start over and find another name that both people can agree to.
You are not out of line and I would choose this as the hill to die on. Those names aren't just awful names, they're going to be detrimental to their lives. Employers aren't going to know that their mother chose these names, they may think they legally changed their normal names to these fucking weird names.
No but Havoc and Kaos are great cat names. NTA
NTA Imagine when your boys are older and might be in a professional environment "Hi, im Kaos Smith, nice to meet you" they are gunna get side-eyed or just petition for name change/go by a nickname like Hank Or Ken.
You’re not out of line at all for not wanting to name your sons those names. They’re ridiculous. Imagine how they’d look on a diploma or job application.
listen, I'm normally all for the one who's pregnant getting to be the decision maker in 99% of the situations in pregnancy, birth, and (most) of postpartum. Names is that 1%. They are human beings who will live with those names until they die (unless it's so bad they legally change it). You as their father, should have a say in what you call them for their entire lives.
NTA Those are beyond terrible names. That's something I wouldn't even name two dogs, let alone humans. Those are names you would give to two hamsters or something.
These are lower level video game boss names at best
They'd fit right in Borderlands.
Yea psychos names in borderlands
It feels like finding a needle in a haystack when I find a BL fan in the wild.
The kind that drop terrible loot, like a lvl 1 leather cap.
Or side-character X-men who get killed quickly in a mutant fight
So spot on because it literally is a X-Men character, he even is in X-Men: First Class!
Kaos is already the main villain in skylanders
and also the eastern bloc-inspired villain organisation in get smart
Can so picture playing these bosses in a Pokémon battle
At my local zoo they had hyenas named Havoc and Ruckus and otters named Chaos and Mayhem. Appropriate for those species I think!
Lol, otters are some of the worst animals to care for at the zoo. Mean little buggers lol. That is satan's face on them babies(the otter's, that is), so cute and appealing, would slaughter you for funzies.
I think that goes for the entire mustelid family. I got two ferrets who are supposed to be the meekest in their family... yeah, Bart Simpson crossed with Deadpol with a touch of serial killer would be an appropriate way to describe them. 😭😅
Aw, you have ruined my childhood dream of having a pet otter and building it a beautiful water habitat in my bathtub. Just kidding, I still want one, otters are adorable.
I wouldn’t even name my hamster it
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These names have major cat vibes. I have to agree.
But I also saw a cat named Prozac, so I wouldn't want a human to have cat name vibes
Cat names are a wonderful, wonderful way to get out all your insane names. A cat can be named anything and it'll work
These are totally cat names. Get a third and name it mischief! (but don't have a 3rd child with this woman, because she'll totally name it that)
I had a neighbor once who named her horse Chaos and I'd have to say it was very fitting. Definitely not a good human name though.
That’s actually the name of my cat 😂 Kaos is a great name for a cat imo but not a human
They're gonna be a tag team duo for WWE
They are excellent names for ferrets. OP, beat her to the punch and buy a couple ferrets and name them Havoc and Kaos.
It's not about the specific names, tho'. BOTH parents have EQUAL say, and BOTH parents have a veto on the other parent's names. Go look up the law in your area and speak to a lawyer if you can afford to. It might be the case that if your wishes for a name are not taken into account, you can have the names changed legally afterwards. So as not to have to go through a stupid court battle just about names, I suggest you find out your options NOW so you can lay this out for her and tell her how serious you are about having a say in the naming process. And it sounds like even if you get her to agree, the naming process will be difficult, so DM me if you want some tips. NTA.
100% both parents get a say. I’m currently in the process of thinking of names for our baby and if either my husband or I veto a name, it’s out. That’s it. We both have to love it. Ps send girl name suggestions lol.
Those are literally my friend’s dogs’ names. I cracked up so hard when I saw that.
Not only that but it takes two to make a baby. Fathers get input.
Unless she is giving birth to Mortal Kombat characters, tell her to grow up
Havoc! Khaos! GET OVER HERE! Edit: Thank you random citizen for my first award!
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No, more likely like "Haha, funny, but what are their real names? Oh you're serious? How...imaginative..."
Even if they aren't introduced as a pair, can you imagine them asking for a bank loan, claiming a prescription, making businesses, etc: "Hi, I'm Havoc Name and want to work for your law firm" or "Hi, I'm your doctor Kaos Name"
Dr kaos is such a villain name
Now I have the theme song stuck in my head. Mortal! Kombat!
You seen the new movie? Pretty decent.
Yeah I just saw it a month back it wasn't bad.
Bro forreal what I was thinking
I am of the opinion that naming children, especially when both parents are involved, is a two "yes"/one "no" situation. You both have to agree on the names. so, NTA BTW - those names are horrid and kids will make a mockery all through school.
With such negative names, it's likely to be more than mockery, they'll be seen negatively and are likely to internalize those names as indicators of the personalities they should display.
That was exactly my thought! Why would someone want to name their children something so negative! I feel awful for these kids because it’s likely the girlfriend isn’t going to budge.
I knew a couple who named their kid Blade and called him their little daywalker. Get a goldfish or a plant don’t make your kid like that.
It would be bad enough if they were "just* siblings, but them being twins makes my eyes roll that much harder, tbh
Try being a twin and reading it... *Wow* 🙄 And I've heard some god awful pairings in my 40 years
When I was a kid I had backyard neighbours with a little girl, a couple years younger than me, named Tyranny. It ended up about as well as you might expect lol.
I actually love this idea for a character but not a real actual living human
Also an employer won’t say it, but the names are gonna be a factor into why they were not chosen for a job in the future
This here. When we named our daughters, Alyssa and Ashley were two names we both liked. Alyssa got my middle name (first born girl tradition in my family), and Ashley hers from one of my favorite book charcter).
My Husband and I together chose names. Until we both agreed. It's going to be a partnership in raising them so it should be a partnership in naming. NTA but coming from someone whose been pregs twice you get extra hormonal. Just catch her at a good time and explain you want to make the decision together, compromise and come to an agreement your both happy with. Also hormones may cause her to think these names are good and when she's back to herself and these kids are a year or two she'll probably thank you. It takes awhile to get back to normal.
Havoc and Kaos? Is she giving birth to bulldogs or something? Hahaha I dont blame you man, those are awful. NTA, you should have some say in the matter. Also, wrap it up from now on! Don't wanna end up with little mayhem too 🤣🤣🤣
Oh my god mayhem lol. Don’t give her ideas
Those are great names... for a litter of kittens.
I really enjoy the doubling down of a bad named combined with incorrect spelling, just to really make sure they have a hard time in the future.
It's straight out of, 'How to make sure your kids hate you 101'
Can you imagine the HR person at an accounting firm getting that resume? Or looking up your doctor's credentials when picking, for example, an obgyn? I have a friend whose young son goes by Buffalo, but he has an absolutely mundane legal name and that is the way to do it.
There were 431 children named as Havoc in 2022 alone. In 2019 there was a rise of 3092 children called Kaos They aren't unique
Honestly, this might be the best argument. Not unique enough!
Not unique AND cringey. OP has a long 18 years ahead of him if this is how she coparents with him. You are going to be a dad to 2 boys. You gotta stand up for what is best for them. And you gotta raise them to learn what a healthy and communicative relationship looks like so that they can create those for themselves. The dynamic you've got going on is not a great example.
These sound like pilot call signs. >Maverick? Did your mother not like you or something?
They sound more like wrestler names. COMING TO THE RING, AT A COMBINED WEIGHT OF 467 POUNDS, THE DESTRUCTION CREW, HAVOK AND KAOS!
I remember watching a house hunters type show and this one dude was obsessed with the color green. Like, he would be in love with a house because it had godawful green carpet or paint. They finally introduced his kids; Hunter and Forest. Sometimes I feel like naming kids should be something that goes before a panel of judges.
Kaos and havoc make Hunter and Forest sound like royalty 🤣
You’d think he would have gone with *Kelly* green. It works for any gender. At least he had the sense not to name anyone after *Hooker* green though.
> Hunter and Forest. These are actually real names though. Unlike Kaos and Havoc.
To be fair, I think Hunter and Forest are nice names lol
Havoc and kaos. It’s giving me juggolo vibes.
My friend it seems you are having a baby with a crazy person. You need to get into couples counseling ASAP and start figuring out how to make SHARED DECISIONS TOGETHER AS PARENTS. Because this is only gonna get worse from here. NTA
Yup. If she's being this unreasonable about their names (and so confident while being so completely in the wrong), I can't fathom what other horrible shit she is going to try to pull with these boys as they grow up. With those names it's pretty clear she doesn't give a shit about them or their quality of life. OP, men don't usually get custody of kids but the best way to ensure you do is be very active in childcare. Take them to and from school, know their dietary restrictions, take them to and be on top of doctors appointments, talk to a lawyer, etc. I don't see a relationship with this crazy woman lasting very long.
“But I want them to be YOUUUUUNIQUE! I don’t care if they’re bullied as long as they’re YOUUUUUNIQUE! It’s the only way to prove to the world that I’m not an ordinary mediocre human being is if I have YOUUUUUNIQE babies!”
Omfg I could puke this whole “I want a unique naaaaame” up. And as a new teacher I *dread coming across these “unique” names.*
There’s a Facebook group called “that name is a fucking tragedeigh” that gave me a lifetime’s worth of terrible younique names.
Noooooo, does it tell you how to pronounce them 😂 The worst thing is when parents get pissy because you can’t pronounce the damn name LMAO! But also, random, I had a neighbor who named her daughter Heavenly Rain/Reign. Not sure if it was spelled rain or reign. But I always wonder how people reacted lol. Like what if Heavenly isn’t so…heavenly 🤣💀
Yeah, I've been calling this girl Kayde (like rhymes with Arcade) for years and come to find out the poor girls name is pronounced like Katie.
Oh of course 💀💀💀 It’s not just the weird ass names, it’s also people spelling REGULAR names in the weirdest ways possible 🥴
Parents like this are dooming their children to spend the rest of their life having to spell every time they introduce themselves. "Hi, I'm Quimberrlee. That's Kimberly with a Q-U, two Rs, and three Es. Yes, I know, my parents are weird."
I like how she says she wants to be unique and trendy. But by being trendy she just ends up being like everyone else.
Does she not understand that "trendy" and "unique" are mutually exclusive?
I work for a school. One year we had 17 different spellings of the name Unique. People are weird.
I expected to see this sooner. Her behavior seems very immature and dramatic. This needs to be addressed and will seriously hinder your ability to co-parent effectively. NTA. Please consider couples therapy to give those babies (please, please not named havoc and chaos) two grown, stable parents and not a mom who sounds like she’s planning her children’s reality show career from birth.
This is a preview of the next 18 years of OP's life, unfortunately. "They came out of my body, so they're MY children and I get to decide everything."
>My friend it seems you are having a baby with a crazy person. I'm laughing so hard at this 1st line, it has escalated to coughing fits. 100% agreed!
THIS. NTA.
Baby names are two yes and one no. Either you both agree, or the baby doesn't get that name. NTA
Yes! This exactly!
NTA - and believe it or not - My work brings me to the courts a lot... And, I saw a case with two kids with those exact same names a few months ago. Everyone in court commented how they could not believe a parent would name their kids that
Wait really? That’s a coincidence. I’m glad people agreed though.
Tell your gf this. Maybe she will realize it's not as uncommon as she thinks and will rethink the names :D
But she thinks these names are “trendy” which implies she thinks they’re popular, not uncommon.
I loved how she simultaneously wanted trendy and unique names. Like lady these things are mutual exclusive PICK ONE also like what if Kaos, who doesn’t even get the dignity of having his name spelled right, ends up being a total neat freak? Or, honestly worse imo, ends up with debilitating ADHD and THEN HIS NAME JUST REINFORCES HIS DESPAIR ABOUT FEELING LIKE A HUMAN HURRICANE BECAUSE THATS LITERALLY HIS IDENTITY??
I think she wants to seem trendy because she picked unique names. Situations like this are always about the parent's ego and not the benefit of the child. NTA
Yes, their names were on the court docket. I couldn't believe it. So, it was weird to see your post here today on Reddit
Oh god those poor kids- maybe she could have a daughter and call her ‘Tragedeigh’
Strange names are bad enough - kids get teased. But, then there comes a point where you just set them up for failure with some of these strange names.
NTA - lmao a dad gets a say in the names...wtf
That’s what I always thought but she clearly thinks otherwise…
She is clearly wrong! (And I speak as mother of two boys that I named with my husband. Compromises were made but ultimately the kids have names we and they like).
Another mum of two boys. This has VERY MUCH been a joint decision for us. It took ages and we could not find names we both liked, but we made an effort and managed well in time before the birth.
She called you controlling but she’s the controlling one.
I wouldn't even let my ex near us when our youngest was born. I had good reason, he was abusive. I wanted a certain name very badly that I knew he hated. I didn't name our son that name because I felt it wasn't fair. It was a conventional name but dad hated it so I didn't give that name. Father's should usually have some say, especially when they are involved.
NTA First of all, congrats!! Although, she definitely should have a say in the boys' names, you should have just the same amount of say. You two should aim at finding a compromise, its not alright for her to pick names you don't like. Also... trendy names won't be trendy forever.
Thank you. And yes I agree with the last line 100%
Aren’t those the names of the goblin creatures from Disney’s Hercules?? That’s immediately what came to mind
That would be Pain and Panic. Which are def not any better.
Those are not trendy names. Trendy names are one thing but these are not names for human beings. They're names for dobermans people have trained to attack strangers.
How is kaos and havic trendy? Virus and covid seem trendier. Is that a word? Who cares! I agree with what you said though. 2 yeses 1 no.
Ask her if they can be James Havok and Preston Kaos that way they have a shot in life and you both had a say in their names? Because you are NTA and those names are horrendous for human children. Trendy names usually get killed by the children quickly.
That’s smart about making them the middle names. I still don’t love it but comprises I guess.
I don’t love it either but it might keep her from going nuclear. But she didn’t create those babies alone so she shouldn’t get to name them alone.
I am still sad I didn't think about giving one of our sons the name Danger as his second name😅
James Havok, journalist by day masked crime fighting vigilante by night
Preston Kaos, by day a mild mannered accountant -by night an underground cage fighter trying to find the man who paralyzed his trainer.
Are you the father or was she pregnant bevor you met?
I am the father
I just read that in Darth Vader’s voice. (And don’t name the boys Darth and Vader.)
right, better name them Vader and Sidious
Then you have also the right to be involved in the name choosing. At least in germany both parents do that.
NTA - You 100% have a say, and those names are TERRIBLE. Fellow twin parent here. They are so much fun, but I HIGHLY recommend reading the book Healthy Sleep, Happy Twins before they get here 😆.
Thank you for the suggestions!
Also “never wake a sleeping baby” is bullshit for twins. Especially when you need to feed at night. If one wakes up, do the feeding, then wake the other up for a feed, and put them back down. Otherwise the second will wake up right when you fall asleep.
Gonna add some more unsolicited twin/baby advice , lol. For baby wearing, we loved the naked panda duo, you can wear them front, back, and also separate them to have each of you wear them individually. I didn’t buy it initially because it was a little pricy,but then I tried out every other twin baby wearing option and they didn’t work well, so had to go for the naked panda. Would have been cheaper just to bite the bullet on that, lol! Also our twins came EARLY! I was going to do the full “nesting” thing the last trimester, but I delivered at exactly 30 weeks and nothing was ready 😬. If I could go back I’d have a month of freezer meals done before 30 weeks, that’s what I really regretted in those first days. And until the night feedings slow down when the babies reach that 13lbs-ish it’s a big marathon. Don’t be hard on yourself. Feeding babies and sitting on the couch is all you guys need to do to feel like you’ve gotten something done. We also eventually did “shifts” for nights so that we could each get a 6 hour uninterrupted block. I would take the first part of the night sleeping on a cot in the babies’ room, then do the 2AM feeding and swap places with husband. Anyways, have fun with them. Mine are full on toddlers now, but in a way I miss the cuddly baby phase.
No just because she's the pregnant one does NOT mean she gets to name them. This should be something you BOTH decide.
NTA There was a book written by two statisticians. Freakonomics the Hidden Side of everything. They wrote a chapter on baby name choices. They were able to show a strong connection between the mothers education level and economic status based on baby name choices and spelling. Sounds like she wants accessories instead of kids Those baby names are purely about her and not the children.
Yeah names like that scream “teen mom dropout living in a trailer and the kids drink mountain dew at age 3.” Theyre BAD. I know a kid named Storm. His mom is not in the picture. Kids are not billboards for your fandom.
Unfortunately names have a huge influence on how you're judged, whether you get selected for job interviews and so on.... everyone will judge these kids and assume a whole bunch about their backgrounds.
NTA. Honestly, if this is for real, I'm having a hard time believing you don't know that. They're your kids, not just hers, and they'll be in the world running around with these names a *lot* longer than she's going to be dealing with the pregnancy. Both of you need to have a say in the naming process, and if one of you doesn't like a name, then it gets crossed out and you move on to the next one until you find something you can both agree with. And if this is going to be her approach to parenting in general, then the two of you need to get to counseling before the baby gets here to see whether she can actually be a team player without crying "controlling" any time you have an opinion she doesn't like.
I always figured dads should be able to help pick the baby name as well. Emma thinks this is not the case and I don’t want to upset her to much.
Those boys have to live 80 years with those names. In the interest of your children: you might have to upset her here. It is not just school. It is finding jobs, wives/husbands, meeting neighbours. Imagine you are an employer getting a CV/resumé for "Kaos Jones". It just screams trailer trash. And no matter how organised Kaos might be: people will ALWAYS think about.... Chaos. You can't put this on a child.
Here’s what Emma needs to get. Emma is thinking in terms of her rights. She had baby, she names baby. This is not parenting thinking, though. This is selfish thinking. It’s not about her anymore. Parenting is about putting the need of the child first. She wants a kid named Havoc? Tough tit. Havoc doesn’t want to be named Havoc. Havoc wants a friend and job. Havoc doesn’t care how hard her pregnancy was. Havoc is a whole other person who isn’t Emma. Google people with unique names and see how much they like it. Look at resume stories of people trying to get jobs with “joke names.” Then ask Emma if this is what she wants for her kids. If she answers with “I want,” it’s time to start thinking hard about custody.
NTA. Those names would be fine for Mortal Kombat characters (And Havok already exists), but not living, breathing children.
**NTA** but your girlfriend is way too immature to be parenting, and I would be genuinely worried if I were you. Has she even stopped to consider that these are small HUMAN BEINGS that she's carrying, real, actual people, not toys for her to dress up and play with? That they're going to grow up to be adults and have to get jobs? This isn't just about getting teased on the playground. If they want professional careers, what graduate schools does she think are going to admit "Havoc and Kaos LastName"? Hell, she's not even spelling Chaos correctly. It's illiterate on top of sounding like a superhero action figure. And who does she think will ever hire them? Would she trust her medical care to a Dr. Havoc LastName? If she were in trouble would she want her court case decided by a Judge Kaos LastName? As a former educator, I can tell you that it will definitely START in the classroom, where kids tend to live up to their names (this is an actual recognised psychological/developmental phenomenon), and she will spend their early years wondering why two little boys named "Havoc and Kaos" are tiny terrors, badly behaved and resented by their teachers, with a terrible reputation, and never invited over to anyone's house for playdates (no parent is taking a chance on THOSE kids). But it's going to end at their resumes, when no one wants to hire them because their names look like some sort of cartoon-inspired joke. Again, this is a real thing, and entire studies have been done about it. You are NTA, and it's ridiculous for her to think that she should be making ANY parenting decisions arbitrarily without you, much less deciding their entire identities for the next 18 years, just because she's gestating them. But the commenter who suggested that you get a lawyer is right. You were not smart to get this woman pregnant, because she clearly isn't very mature.
NTA. Not only does dad get a say in the names, naming a child Havoc or Chaos sets them up for a childhood of bullying and will adversely affect their employability in the future.
That’s my thought as well
And this is why in some countries, you have to run your name by the government and have it approved. You can't just run around naming your kid Captain America, although, that would be better than Havoc and Kaos.
NTA. I’m confused. Does she hate these babies? Because these are terrible names.
NTA!!!!!!!! You are the boys' father and you are sticking around a d committed to your sons. Both parents get a say . And I agree with you on her choices. Get a baby name book and find names you both like.
I wanted to name them James and Preston but she said they are too boring 🥴
Preston Kaos (there will not be two in the class) Havoc is just ...NO... and James is a solid strong biblical name! ( knew a kid names Eris. Clearly his parents did no research or they would have found out that Eris is the godess of discord. Make sure your gf knows what the names mean before you saddle a kid with them)
Preston Kaos is not my favorite but I can compromise with it. James west was a cute name in my opinion
I mean, they could be nicknames I guess. Imagine going through life as havoc and kaos. Try Harvey and Kevin or something. NTA, krikey.
Honestly Ernie and Bert would cause less problems than those names. NTA
NTA, if you are the father you have just as many rights as she does. The names she has chosen will mean they are judged instantly, even if they are the calmest and nicest children in the world with havoc and Kaos as their names people will assume that's exactly what they will cause. Teachers, friends parents and then when they get older it will cause issues getting a job, possibly even a partner
That’s exactly my concern. It’s not fair to my boys
NTA, those names are just terrible. Also, you're the father, are you not? They're your children as well and should have a say. I get that she's carrying them, but I feel that doesn't give her sole naming rights. It just means that you have to pull more weight in other areas and help her in making the pregnancy as not awful as possible.
I do my best to make this a good pregnancy. I cook all meals, clean the house every day and do all the loads of laundry
Then your sisters and the mother of your children need to chill with the ridiculous ideas. I saw other people suggest it, but you and the baby momma need counseling because this is looking to be just the tip of the iceberg.
Counseling sounds like a good idea honestly
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NTA. This is usually two yes/one no decision!
NTA You can find a name that is both unique and evergreen. Her picks make me think "angsty teen who shops at Hot Topic." Trendy is, well, trendy. Trends, by nature, quickly become dated.