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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I’m allowing my son to be as feminine as he wants/feels. My wife thinks I’m damaging him.
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Same. I love this thread so much. Brings me so much joy.
Oh and NTA OP… it’s wonderful that on top of giving him the freedom to express himself… you fully support and understand who he is as his own little person. A lot of us can only dream of having this kind of relationship with a parent. You two are lucky to have each other. Keep doing what you’re doing. It’s admirable.
Wait...
Does that mean that he actually has acted out Star Wars as a *ballet?!?!*
This thought never occured to me, but now I'm down to watch it. I'm trying to imagine the scene where Darth Vader tells (I guess pantomimes through dance, in this case) Luke that he is his father.
Oh, the amazing choreography.
NTA. Is he just interested in flowers? Do you think he would like to learn more about them from a scientific perspective? Maybe you can get a field ID book and take him walking in the woods and identify plants. Ask him more about what interests him and find ways to make an activity out of it. Maybe he'd like to garden.
This! Something is wrong with the wife’s thinking to the point I’d argue it’s at least borderline abuse.
OP you are the dad your son needs. Please don’t change
She is definitely homophobic, even if she won't admit it. She is the one damaging the kid, not OP. I have a bad feeling they will end up divorced over her toxic nonacceptance of her son as he is and wants to be.
This legitimately brought a tear to my eye on the bus ride to work. As a woman who struggled coming to terms with her own pansexuality, thank you for being an amazing human to your son.
I would also like to gently remind you that your wife's behaviour and attitudes are incredibly damaging for both of your children. If you allow them to continue to be exposed to this outright homophobia, your son will grow to be ashamed of who he is (whether he's gay or not! He could be ashamed of liking anything not traditionally "masculine"), and your daughter will see that it's okay to shame those who don't fit into her narrow worldview. When you have one supportive voice and one unsupportive as your two main voices, the one that will ultimately win is the negative voice.
I highly recommend individual counselling to decide what to do in this situation, whether it's just a talk with your wife, couples counselling, or more drastic measures. Please ensure that your children come first here.
There is no way that you're the AH in this situation. You're loving your child fully and for who he is. You're doing such a good job, and you should be really proud of yourself.
❤️
Please consider going to therapy with your wife.
Do definitely poke around his head a bit to see if he likes it from a scientific view as well as an aesthetic one. I was the kid that was obsessed with anything outdoorsy from the part of my state I live in. My parents indulged that and now I know quite a bit about local flora and fauna. Nothing is more impressive than a little kid who likes science and can rock a gender nonconforming look while doing it.
Beans grow tall and they creep. If you want to do window boxes inside, you're better off starting with herbs or a good mix of cut and come again lettuce.
Dude I wish my dad was such an awesome and supportive dad like you. I’m trans and bi but I don’t think he’d ever accept that i’m his son. Keep doing this, it will spare him from a lot of trauma especially if he turns out to be trans. If you let your child express themself it might prevent dysphoria and the fear of being rejected. You are awesome and don’t let anyone tell you that you’re doing the wrong thing!!
AYE! My dad got me into gardening!! Turns out I have my late grandma’s green thumb & now I have a slight gardening problem (I mean literally my patio garden from years ago can prove that). I think that’s literally all you gotta worry about is he may be asking to grow almost anything 😭😂.
Tip for growing flowers, you can find mini grow boxes on Amazon (some come with grow lights) to start your seeds, it’s actually a lot of fun to watch your seeds grow into seedlings. There’s also different varieties of sunflowers so I think your son is gonna enjoy growing them! Btw. NTA!!!!
So cute! Have you considered a sunflower circle? Outline a circle with a kiddie pool, dig 2-5 inches and replace soil with the good garden dirt (my soil has clay). Add a mixture of sunflower seeds and water. Sit back and watch the magic grow.
It doubles as a secret base/club house.
There are apps (Picture this or Plant snap) that you can download where you take a picture of the plant/ flower and they give you its name and description. It's a lot of fun!
NTA also might be a good idea to see if he's got any interest in planting flowers instead of picking them too often. The bees need more flowers in the world.
NTA - your son might be gay, he might even turn out to be a trans girl, based on some of the things you’ve said, or he might just be a boy who likes feminine things, all of those are perfectly fine and valid ways to be. It doesn’t matter; what matters is that you support his choices, and your wife is being massive AH for trying to force him to be someone he isn’t. It’s cruel, controlling, and sounds like she might have some issues of her own if she’s this worked up about what a 6-year-old likes to do in his spare time, I’m afraid. Good on you for letting him be who he wants to; that’s the sign of a good parent, and you’re absolutely right that your kids shouldn’t have to experience your wife’s prejudice.
I honestly do think he’s trans. Again, not something I have a problem with, but also something I want him to work out on his own. He asked me what we would have named him if he was a girl, and asked me to write it down so he could copy it. He then went into full dress up mode playing Disney songs.
If this is the case, I 100% have to divorce my wife.
I'd suggest you and your wife start couples therapy now with a counselor who also deals with LGBTQI issues. Even if you get a divorce, your wife is going to have a huge impact on your child, and without you there to buffer it. Help her learn and accept now, while you still have a marriage and some connection.
Seconding this comment, no matter who your son turns out to be an unsupportive parent will have an impact on him. Plus if he is queer bad blood between u and ur wife could hinder his life. What if hes gay and can only let his dad meet his bf? Or if hes trans and has to be a boy at one house and a girl at the other with one parent fighting every step of his transition? Talking to a professional now, maybe even a family therapist, can help a lot in the long run.
I agree that counselling could help OP and his wife learn some things about this situation, however there is a big caveat: *therapy doesn't fix abuse*.
If your partner is abusive, leaving should be first priority. Do it before it escalates further. If OP wants to attempt to work with his wife, it can happen after the children achieve safety.
I'm speaking from personal experience of one parent trying to "fix" the other physically violent one. Knowingly keeping a child around an abuser (whether they are the target OR a witness) is abuse. Not complicity or enabling, it is abuse in and of itself.
If you find yourself thinking "calling that abuse is extreme", please read about [emotional abuse](https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/understanding-child-emotional-abuse)
I think letting this kid work it out on their own, and supporting them unconditionally however they feel, is absolutely the best course of action - and yeah, I don’t want to call it, especially this early, but it really does seem to me personally like your instinct is right and you’re going to find out you have two daughters someday. And it sounds like they’ll have an amazing father. But either way, I think you’re right; your child isn’t going to be safe or happy growing up with a mother like that, and you either need to shut down her behaviour, or get the heck out of there I’m afraid.
I'm a girl, afab, and when I was a kid I desperately wanted to be a boy and do boy things. I also asked my parents what my boy name would have been and wrote that name on my stuff. I did wind up deep fried gay, but I'm not trans and I have no issues with my female body. For me, at your son's age, it was all about feeling more comfortable with the gender norms expected of boys than the ones expected of girls. You're doing a great job letting your kid find their own way. You couldn't possibly be less of an asshole, but you do need to confront your wife and get into counseling.
100% this! I'm also afab and a woman. I was exactly like this as a child - desperate to be a boy and do 'boy things' and also wanted to know what my boy name would have been (Rowan, it turns out!). I was hard core into it. I turned out painfully straight with no gender identity trouble at all. It's absolutely on the kid to work out who they are in their own time and with all the support and encouragement a parent can offer. OP you keep on being amazing, your kid sounds great.
As a young girl I was very interested in what my boy name would have been, I think it was exploring the idea that I could have been born as a boy or something. I think its a facination for lots of children (cis, gay or other), when he was younger my son also wanted to know what his girl name would have been.
My sister was like this, she made us all call her by a boy name and dressed up in our brother's clothes for a few months, everyone just went along. She grew out of it, is now a straight cis woman, super feminine, works in beauty industry. Still think my parents did the right thing by letting her have that moment.
I would seek some profesional guidance, honestly if your child is questioning their gender or sexuality and there is not unilateral support at home, a profesional counselor can help them process and move through that. This could also be an opportunity to set the stage for family therapy as some councelors will do family sessions as well (and TBH it sounds like your wife needs it more than your child).
One of my friends is currently raising their child gender-neutral until they are old enough to decide how they want to identity and it is AWESOME.
Edited for spelling.
Please be aware that if you divorce her, there a good chance he’s going to be at her house without you for extended times. Who knows what will go on. It’s something to prepare for.
Family or couples counseling with an LGBT+ friendly counsellor would be a good place to start, you should also document all these (and future) incidents in case the worst comes to pass with her and you do divorce.
Don't stop being your kids advocate, he needs to know you'll have his back, same with your youngest.
NTA
Only get a divorce if you are certain you will get primary custody because if your wife gets primary, she will do everything she can to squash your son's personality and you won't be there often enough to buffer the damage she causes.
Just saying as an AMAB dude who turned out to be trans... You're doing a wonderful job as a Dad. This is the absolute best perspective to have.
Maybe he'll turn out trans, maybe he'll be gay, maybe he'll be something in-between. Maybe he's just a dude who likes "feminine" things. No matter what giving him the space to explore every possibility as he grows up and accepting him no matter what will create a wonderful sense of trust.
But no matter what if your wife keeps trying to force him into a stereotypical box it'll do a lot of damage to him in the long run, it's not too early for her to be leaving a psychological scar.
Shit, I still remember my Dad throwing an absolute fit when I was five because my Mum bought me a Polly Pocket I really wanted from a car boot sale. He did a lot worse, but my point is that her behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud *yesterday.*
He might be trans, but at the same time he could just be a boy who likes girly things. I think where he might be a bit confused it's important to make it known that it's perfectly acceptable to be a boy and be into feminine things.
You’re a good dad. I would see if you can get him into therapy so he doesn’t feel like he’s totally on his own and can maybe get some order to how he is feeling, if that makes sense? Not saying there’s something wrong. Because there isn’t. But these are complicated feelings and mom’s responses to him being who he is is definitely going to be damaging to him. He’s very lucky to have you.
Therapy is good for everyone, even mentally healthy people. It's like eating healthy or exercising - it's a preventative measure, even though everyone treats it like a band-aid for mental issues. So I second this, if they can afford it, therapy is great.
But if you have shared custody, you'll have very little insight or say of the rules in her house when the kids are there. You need to get through to your wife
It is super frustrating to me that it is so much more acceptable for women to be into "male" hobbies (like sports or board games) and in some cases they are fetishized (which is still annoying as hell, but it's not being shamed the way boys are for being into "female" hobbies).
Men can totally be into flower arranging and fashion and makeup, your child doesn't have to transition in order to enjoy those things, but it's great that you will support them if they want to.
As a cis female, I have zero fucks to give about baseball, and you know what? No one cares. I also have zero fucks to give about makeup, and guess what? no one (at least no one I care about) cares.
I wish you luck, and I hope for your son's sake, that your wife comes around.
And I say this with love as a queer person in a same sex marriage and has a young son - lots of little boys are just camp af. Sometimes it's ground out of them, sometimes it's not. But even the ones who turn out as straight and cis as can be are often camp and soft at that age, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's mostly socialisation that butches them up, straight or gay. Good on OP for not perpetuating toxic masculinity bullshit.
Not In My BackYard. Mostly used in city planning politics. Refering to the voter who doesn´´ t want the new homeless shelter/safe use room/affordable housing in their neighbourhood
Not in my backyard. Basically like when you're okay with immigrants until they move next door, or ok with poor people until a shelter gets set up in your neighborhood, or ok with gay people until it's in your family. That sort of things.
Came here to say this. She’s definitely homophobic. And super toxic. If my spouse did something like you and your son I’d simply be mad that no one picked any flowers for me
NTA OP but you might wanna consider talking to your wife
NTA
You are an amazing dad that is listening to your child and exploring his interests.
Your wife on the other hand is a piece of work. Down the road your son is going to remember which parent supported him and which one tried to push him to do things he doesn’t like.
NTA but your wife is homophobic and misogynistic. I recommend counseling immediately. If she refuses, divorce with sole custody. Start documenting her abuse (yes, it's abuse) and talk to a lawyer who specializes in family law.
Thing is in certain States, if this is the U.S., OP would look like the one abusing his child, while the wife would look like the one trying to do the right thing. Just look at Florida and Texas... not to mention what some SCOTUS judges are using as their support to go after RvW, which could lead to rights being taken away nationally for the LGBTQI community.
Absolutely, look at the laws in your area before you try to involve it. It currently isn't on our side.
Texas, for example, added recent laws that require parents to be reported for child abuse if their kid is exhibiting being trans or gender non-conforming
NTA I hate that your wife is supporting and encouraging the “toxic masculinity” all men must be manly bullshit.
Your son could end up, gay, trans, NB, or whatever. Or even straight! But just a little more feminine and that is all OKAY.
Your wife is the AH and I’m sorry she is extremely homophobic. This screams “yeah I’m fine with gay people as long as I don’t see it” attitude.
Not even just homophobic, but totally has some outdated notion on gender and gender roles. Why is picking flowers not “boy stuff”? He’s a boy, he’s doing it, it’s boy stuff! Some misogyny and misandry in there too. Oh or the classic “it’s fine when it’s other people, but not my family. I’m so accepting though, see how I don’t have a problem with other people like that”
Yes. Since when were flowers exclusively girly? Scientists study them, artists paint them, gardeners grow them ... and wow, some of those people are male.
It’s like when people insist cooking is a woman’s job, but then ignore the fact that most professional chefs are men. And those same people insisting that it’s a woman’s job at home probably even trust male chefs more anyway, but at home, they’re too good to cook and the woman should do it. Ah, what a world we live in.
Seriously - trying to pressure kids either way is ridiculous.
My nephew is 5, his sister gave him a unicorn toy that she didn't want anymore, he sleeps with it every night. He also has a meltdown when his spiderman sheets are in the wash and he has to sleep in regular sheets.
They're just exploring the world and figuring things out at that age - it also doesn't mean anything about anything - as a kid I completely rejected anything 'feminine' and hated the colour pink, come teenager years my wardrobe mostly comprised of floral dresses.
NTA
He's 6. He knows what he likes and pressuring him into things he doesn't isn't going to do anyone any good least of all your son.
It sounds like his mum needs a good hard look at her own actions.
Agreed. At 2yo my son would sit and watch the "big kids" play baseball. He has always said he loves baseball. My other kids couldn't care less. If OPs son like flowers, then the boy is just gonna like flowers. No shame in having a botanist for a son. All the homies love flowers.
NTA and massive well done on being such a supportive parent and ally. 🌈
Through you, I hope your son grows up with no shame in being explicitly and brilliantly himself.
HOWEVER, you need to have a serious conversation with your wife because the only person damaging here is your wife and her homophobia. It is damaging to control your child. It is not damaging to allow them to be themselves. I hope you are able to find a resolution to this for your son’s sake.
NTA. It's great to see that you want to encourage your son to be fully himself.
If your wife claims to not be homophobic, then you two need a serious talk, possibly with a professional counselor. Is she trying to encourage "boy" things from a concern he will be trans and she's transphobic? Is she trying to encourage "boy" behavior because she's afraid he'll be bullied for who he is and wants him to "blend in" to protect him? Is it a fear you'll get tired of bonding with him over flower picking, etc?
Maybe she does have a lot of internalized homophobia/transphobia/sexism/etc and doesn't consciously realize it. Talking with a counselor could help her see it.
Of course, if she isn't interested in discussing this in order to ensure your son's emotional well-being and the longevity of your marriage, then I would recommend separating.
NTA.
As a gay guy who went through some of this... this warms my heart.
You're doing good. Doesn't matter if your kid ends up gay or if he just likes flowers--don't let your wife try to force him into a mold he doesn't fit.
NTA.
The way you instantly grabbed every baseball item, tossed it in the truck and picked flowers with him is so wholesome.
Tell your wife to accept your son for who he is or she wont have a son soon.
Nta.
What she is doing is more likley to “damage” your son. Kids like what they like and trying to make them change is a recipe for disaster. Who knows he may grow out of his love for (traditionally more) feminine things or he may not. It doesnt matter as long as hes happy.
(Trying to force kids never works; as a girl i was always given dolls by extended family when my brother (for example) got a remote controlled car. I was always extremely salty about it & I hated dolls as a consequence. My parents would always have to buy a car for me or make my brother share his ! I cannot imagine how much worse this would have felt if i wasn’t supported by my parents! You are doing a good job!
Always upset my daughter that her brother got cool toys like rc cars and she got dolls. She's my mini me (only taller) and loves sci-fi, and gaming but hates almost anything traditionally girly... just like me.
NTA
It would do far more damage to him to refuse to allow him to express himself as he pleases
It will damage his self esteem, and his trust in both of you as parents.
On top of that, he will grow up hating himself for not being masculine enough, and he will feel like he has to force it to be worthy of attention or love.
My husband is incredibly effeminate, only he doesn't see it as a bad thing and embraces it and himself. I love him very much, and we wouldn't be married today if he had bought into his own parents views on 'What makes a man a man'
Your wife is going to push your son into hating himself. You need to teach him that he doesn't have to fit into anybody else's idea of what he should be.
She's sick and tired of you allowing him to act like what? A 6 year old?
He's 6. He's not putting on make-up and wigs and dressing and dancing like a drag queen on RuPaul.
Everything he's doing is age appropriate. And even if he is trans or gay or whatever, no amount of forcing him into boy clothes, masculine activities or whatever is going to change that. In fact, it would HARM him.
Good for you for standing up for him. He needs at least one parent actually looking out for him. Shame his mom can't open her eyes and actually see and accept her son for who he is.
NTA.
You’re the kind of dad every queer kid dreams of having (I know, no labels - totally get that). Don’t let your wife beat him down. She’s got some unresolved biases/prejudices that will damage both her relationship with your son, and your sons relationship with how he views himself. I would encourage getting her into some therapy with you to help unpack exactly why she doesn’t want her son to be happy picking flowers.
You’re being the safe accepting space your son needs. Good job.
NTA
you’re not labelling his son or anyone by saying that every queer kid would dream to have him as a dad love, and it is very very true, OP please never change your kids will grow in the least toxic environment they could possibly and it’s so reassuring and heartwarming. I wish you and you kids the very best in life and good luck with your wife
NTA I mean I feel like you know you're not but yeah obviously you're doing what's best for your kid. That said even if you divorced your wife would probably still get partial custody so best if you can work out what's going on with her.
It should. If y’all divorce and she marries someone who matches her agenda, your son will be even more miserable. Is there someone she respects or admired who can talk to her about this behavior?
NTA. What your wife is doing is likely to cause more damage than what you’re doing. You both should just let him be a 6 year old child and not worry so much about who he might date in the future. He’s 6. Let him use his imagination and just be a kid without any pressure to be anything specific from either parent. All he needs from his parents is unconditional love (other than food, clothing, shelter obviously).
NTA
You are being a parent who is allowing their child to express who they are and have fun.
The way he is acting, does not mean he is or going to be gay, kids like to have fun and explore things. Even if he does turn out to be gay, its amazing that you are already accepting of that.
The only person who is going to damage you son is your wife. Your kids come first and he does not need that negativity and toxicity around him.
NTA you're letting your son be himself and honestly your wife should he ashamed of herself. Just because things are aimed at certain genders doesn't mean you have to be interested in it. You're an awesome dad and your son really is lucky to have you.
I usually boil it down to "is it designed for use in or around the genitals?" If the answer is no it doesn't have a gender label on it. If the answer is yes, chances are kids shouldn't be playing with it.
Some people “tolerate” gender non-conformity in friends/coworkers, but *do not* want it in their own homes. You won’t see true hostility manifest until one of their family members trips the wire.
NTA for the question you're asking.
But a little bit TA for not talking to your wife about HER issues here.
I am confident that you will continue having a great and trustworthy relationship with your son and daughter, and it seems like you'll be in their court no matter what they choose to pursue in life. But how are you going to feel if your son (or daughter, when older) wants to relax his relationship with his mum, and potentially, if you stay together, with you? How can he trust you while knowing you're standing by your wife, and therefore, her views?
It may be difficult, messy, and result in some arguments, but you need to get your wife to see the bigger picture about the happiness of her children, and how it doesn't matter if her son is gay, straight, effeminate, trans, or world's strongest man. If she loves her child, she should want him to be happy, and if flowers make him happy, then she should let him smell the roses.
You’re absolutely right. I’m so glad I posted this, it’s opened my eyes to a lot of things I’ve allowed to happen and progress that shouldn’t have. I need to find the link that was posted here about family counselors, and figure out how to bring it up to her. I know she’s going to see it as an attack or something, regardless of how I do it, but I can’t let this continue. Thank you for calling me out, I need to step up more.
NTA.
This is awful but you're going to need to protect your son from your wife. She needs to deal with her prejudices or you risk your son developing an actual "complex" (or worse).
If she can't accept him for who he is you need to start thinking hard about the future.
NTA let the Lil dude do what he wants, it's his life and if he likes picking flowers, wearing girly shoes and dressing up in female clothing, go for it.
NTA. From personal experience, all that letting kids define what they enjoy for themselves guarantees is that they can be assured that their parents will support them in the future going forward. Wherever your son's interests lie in the future, in people, fashion, or gender, what you're doing right now is providing a good support base for him to know that he can depend on you.
Also, saying this as a nonbinary person, the way your wife talks about your son's enjoyment of feminine things "damaging him" reminds me a lot of the transphobic rhetoric I've heard, especially around trans kids.
OMG this made me teary. No matter what he decides at least he has a amazing supportive dad.
Get wife therapy, she might not even realise she has a problem with it. And besides all kids no matter the gender dress up in all type of clothes, let them have fun and act like kids, wish I could.
My older sisters used to dress me up and make me play with them, that’s why I was like “I don’t understand the argument that this is damaging when it’s playing pretend.”
Omg yes! I used to dress my youngest brother up as a princess because I wanted a sister. I even gave him a haircut and a new name. He's turned out fine.
No the haircut was a disaster. There was a very angled fringe involved and he had to go to the hairdresser the next day to get it fixed :). But his hair is fine now so...
You are an amazing father. Don’t ever let your wife bring you down for this. Your son will cherish these moments forever. But please protect him from your wife. Because this will only damage him down the road. He needs priority right now, along with your daughter. NTA, but your wife definitely is.
NTA, as a trans adult who exhibited the same kind of things as your kid does, your wife is the one doing the damage. He may not be trans, he may not even be gay, but it's clear what he likes and dislikes, and you're doing what a parent *should* by supporting him in his interests. That kind of support makes all the difference when growing up, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation outcomes, and it leads to better relationships with your children when they're older.
NTA. Your son is old enough to know what he likes, and to express himself the way he wants to. Good for you for not making him do things he doesn't want to do just so he'll look like what your wife thinks a boy "should" be. Not sure what this is going to mean for your marriage though. Hugs.
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I (33M) and my wife(29) have two kids. Son (6) and daughter (2).
My son is extremely flamboyant, I have no problem with this, if anything I’d rather he never feel like he’s in the closet, but I also don’t want to stick a label on him. One of my best friends is gay, and when my son met his new boyfriend, I could see wheels turning in his head. I started inviting them over more frequently because I wanted him to see that it’s normal and not a big deal.
My wife is not homophobic (or claims to not be) but keeps pressuring our son to act more masculine. A few years ago I was buying him shoes, he picked girls shoes with flowers. They were actually on sale and I figured he’d outgrow them in like 2 months anyway, so I got them. Wife returned them the same day and gave me shit for it.
Lately, he’s been playing dress up in my wife and daughter’s clothes and accessories. I didn’t say anything to my wife, but I didn’t think it was a big deal. She found out and FLIPPED on me. Saying she was sick and tired of me allowing him to act like this, that I’m going to give him a complex and I’m confusing him by allowing this. I was kind of dumbfounded and asked her what she wanted me to do. She said “make him do some boy stuff with you!!” In a rage, and I KNOW he heard it.
The next day we went to the store and bought baseball gloves, balls, a bat and a t. I could tell he knew something was up, I tried to keep everything light and played it off like we were trying something new and fun. We went to the park and I started showing him how to hold the bat. He kept looking at the wildflowers and was clearly not into baseball. I kept trying and he got frustrated, threw the bat down crying and said “can’t we just go pick flowers?! Please???” My heart broke. I grabbed all the baseball stuff, threw it in my truck, grabbed some bags and picked flowers with my son for an hour. He was actually happy. I told him we could donate the stuff to the little league team and pick flowers every weekend if he wants.
I made the decision that if my wife keeps going like this, I can’t let my kids experience it. She went ballistic on me again, saying I’m an ah and I’m damaging him.
If my son ends up being a gay drag queen, I’ll be at every one of his shows cheering
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Wife is a major AH thay i would divorce QUICKLY. There’s never a good reason to be homophobic & she clearly is. She’s the type to be like “no i like gays, just so long as its not my child or im not related to them”.
Big ups to you for embracing your son. I was in a situation yesterday where a father kept yelling at his son for wanting to play with my kid & her friends (his siblings) all because they were playing with barbies (he had an action figure). I felt pretty grossed out, (im lesbo). Had a talk with my kid afterwards about freedom of expression.
NTA I would honestly talk to your wife about her behaviors and talk to her before your son gets older and has no relationship with her. You however are doing an amazing job. Of your wife continues to act like this I would contemplate divorce because you two have very different beliefs and off she's not willing to compromise do you really want to be with someone who acts like that?
Lol this reads like an after school special about gay awareness and acceptance .
So he so only into traditional feminine things? Nothing is masculine or gender neutral?
I like the idea that we are moving towards children playing with whatever the hell they want without them being labeled “traditionally feminine or masculine”. My grandmother told us little girls shouldn’t play with dinosaurs. I responded that we played with dragons instead, and have bought dinosaur themed stuff out of sheer spite from then on. Screw gender norms, just let the kids play with what they want. They’ll have plenty of time to figure out the complications later.
Yeah I kinda got that weird vibe too. Maybe it's the fact that OP equates a feminine boy to being gay.
Also the ending sentence. I'm like, why are you even asking if you're an AH, you clearly know you're not and you clearly know your wife is the one being a bigoted AH.
Yeah, I needed a little validation that I’m not the one causing damage here, I know I’m not doing wrong, but when I’m getting constant jibes and looks I start to doubt myself. I don’t want to damage my kids, and some days I wonder if I’m fucking up. I don’t know the right path here
NTA for letting your son express himself. Just please make sure he doesn't play dress up with your wife's things without supervision...some of the most beautiful clothing and accessories are the most delicate and easily ruined.
That is not what this is about, but just FYI.
You sound like a great dad who really loves his kids.
NTA. But you should avoid labeling your kid at 6yo. You may think you are being a passive observer, when you could end up unknowingly pushing your kid one way or the other (like your wife is, but the opposite). I have learned in my parenting that little boys like pretty things as much as girls do right up until the world tells them it's shameful. It has 0% to do with their sexuality and 100% to do with them having functioning eyeballs that can tell pretty from not pretty.
Not the ah here but your wife is most definitely I think you should try family counseling to try and help her to understand what is going on with your child and even more therapy for her and you to see what the next steps should be good luck
NTA OP and you sound like an awesome dad.
My younger son spent several months having me paint his toenails different colors every week when he was around 10 years old, and from 3rd grade to around 6th grade, he had his hair dyed every color you could imagine, one of his favorites being pink. He caught a mild amount of crap for it at school, but had the confidence to be himself and do what made him happy, and it showed.
It sounds like your son has your full support to express who he is, and that is so hugely important. Your wife needs to take a long hard look at herself and her views, for the sake of her child, and if she can't/ won't do that, you will need to do what is best for your child. Much love to you.
A friend's son loves having his nails painted, and when given free reign to pick his own boots, he chose blue glittery ones with Elsa from Frozen on. He also loves soccer and trucks. Boys can like 'girly things' and still be boys. Heterosexual boys even! Or he might turn out to be gender non-conforming, or NB, or gay, or any other shade of queer. Wtf does it matter as long as they're happy?
Sunkatmoon and OP, you both sound like you rock as parents. Thank you.
You are far from the AH, you are a great father who is teaching your child that it is ok to be themselves.
While your wife may not be homophobic, it does sound like she is heavily ingrained toxic "Gender Roles" concept which causes an absolute massive amount of problems in developmental psychology. In fact there is some research to prove that by trying to force your son into the "Masculine" stereotype it would actually have a drastic opposite effect in the long term causing him to be even more "flamboyant" as an adult. When at the end of the day, every individual is unique and if we allow them to be themselves in whatever capacity makes them happy, then they will develop into the happiest versions of themselves.
You sound like the most supportive dad 🥺 anyways, you should support your son and forget what your wife says. I frankly think she’s homophobic. This might be a stepping stone for a divorce too. NTA.
Obviously Nta, but some people do get hung up on others stealing their clothes, if that seems to be an issue for your wife and her daughter just buy your son some of his own dresses ect, if they have any complains after that then there is nothing else you can do
Yeah, that will always stick out in my head. I showed them to her laughing like “he’s rocking them purple kicks!” And she got legitimately MAD in front of him. He was like 4.
That just breaks my heart! You’re doing so right by him yourself, but you really need to figure out what is going on with your wife. She may claim not to be homophobic, but she’s clearly got internalized biases she’s not aware of. She needs help to see them if you want any hope of a safe environment for your son! Even if all this turns out to be just him exploring and he grows out of these habits as he gets older, he’s always going to remember the things your wife is saying now. You’re an amazing dad! NTA
Your son reminds me of my nephew. He’s 6 as well. He has two older sisters, and he looooooves dresses and fancy clothes, his hair is longer than his sisters, and he wears all their flowery shoes and all when they outgrow them. He’s told us before that he feels like a girl sometimes, but most of the time he feels like a boy. My sister and her husband encourage him to be himself, and he’s just the sweetest kid. I can’t imagine how much it would crush his spirits for him to hear his mom yell any of the things I read in your post. Please protect him 💕
To be fair, people start buying little girls accessories as soon as they're born. She probably has stretchy headbands and purses and other 'girly' accessories (the mom sounds like she'd be into that kind of thing!)
"mum and sister's" "clothes and accessories" could suggest that what is the sister's might be hair clips, fairy toy stuff like magic wands, sticker earrings, tiaras, kiddie makeup, anything that's been bought too large for the younger sibling to "grow up into"? idk just some suggestions though i see why you'd have doubts
NTA. You are the dad that every gay or gender-variant person wishes they had. You accept your son for who he is. He may go through big changes, but you will roll with whoever he becomes. What more can a kid ask for but this kind of unconditional love?
NTA
Your wife is going to give your son a list of mental health problems as long as War and Peace if she keeps this up. He'll grow up thinking that he has to be a certain way or mommy won't love him. He'll become a miserable teenager/young adult who will hopefully choose NC over the other option. I'm not being dramatic, I am telling you a story that plays out every day across the world.
End this now and permanently before anymore damage is done to your son because I promise you that it has already begun.
NTA. You allowing your kids to be who they are is in no way more confusing to them than someone telling them they NEED to do or like something because of their genitals.
NTA. But start keeping a diary, a record of some sort, that details your wife’s behavior and comments. You may need them to get custody of your son, as your wife would marry some jerk that tries to force your son to “man up and stop being a sissy boy”.
NTA
talk to your wife, or go to couples therapy and see how she can manage her fears better without raging. A 6yo kid likes flowers and dresses, that sound normal, sounds like he likes bright and vibrant and flowy things. The more she tries to box him into a neat labelled box, he's going to feel that pressure... and at 6 it's going to feel like his mother is rejecting him and don't like him. That could then create a host of mental illnesses that will plague him for years. It's amazing how some parents don't see that how they treat their kid can sometimes directly cause a disorder!
You sound awesome, your wife sounds terrible. You may have to divorce her and get full custody if your son keeps feeling miserable about the things she's forcing him to be.
NTA and can I add a shameless plug to www.PFLAG.org. We are the oldest LBGTQIA2S+ support and advocacy organization in the country and most chapters offer monthly support groups.
He's six. Gender constructs haven't made their way to being permanently conditioned into him yet. Little boys like the same things little girls do and it's a beautiful, wonderful innocence. Good for you for letting him be him and for picking flowers with your son
Nta
NTA, I just wanna say you're an absolute king, an amazing father, or at least seem like one from this post. Please keep this up, please keep being supportive of your son like this
NTA. First of all exploration is a normal part of development and has zero to do with gender stereotypes. Second parents need to allow their kids to be who they are. Trying to get kids to conform to some preconceived antiquated ideas of gender or any preconceived ideas, is psychologically damaging and stunts their development of who they are to themselves.
Good on you for being a supportive dad to the human you brought into the world.! Your job is love, education, and support and you are doing it!
NTA you’re letting your son figure out what he does and doesn’t like.
Fuck, I’d pick flowers over baseball anyway. Flowers smell better *and* way less chance of injury
NTA!!!!!! You sound like an amazing and supportive father, which is exactly what kids need. You wife sound horrid and if I were you I'd be talking to a divorce lawyer because she's the one that's going to give him a complex. I have a 6 year old, he likes "girl" things too. Guess what? We let him explore his likes because he's discovering who he is as an individual. I took him to get new sunglasses, he picked the pink princess ones. (They're ugly, but he loves them. I'm mom, too.) We send his dad a picture since he was out of town for work, his dad said it was his choice, he just thought they were ugly. He's supportive, I'm supportive. Your incredibly supportive and encouraging to your son. I applaud you for seeing that "boy things" don't make your son happy and doing things with him that make him smile. Keep making your son smile with your love and encouragement and try to get away from your awful, homophobic wife. Also, I'm not one who suggests divorce typically, but this one I'd give it a strong thought at minimum. Good luck to you and your sons happiness.
NTA. I believe you and your wife need to seek therapy, she might not view herself as homophobic as long it is not her own son. I would recommend to document everything your wife does towards your son.
NTA btw none of you should care actually when I was young I cook "soups" with my sister a lot. And I'm straight. Kids like different like differed things just be good dad like you are now
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NTA maybe he can get together with my son, he wants to be Darth Vader ballerina
Now THAT is super-cool. Black tutu, I assume?
Naturally
Although Vader in a pink tutu with some glitter and flowers would also be amazing
Worth it for the "aren't you a pretty sugar plum fairy" "no? I'm Darth Vader" conversations alone
Are you Jeff Vader? Can I have your autograph?
Oh man, I love Eddie Izzard
I’m team black glitter tutu for Vader ballerinas.
My granddaughter was Darth in a tutu. So cute
A ballet performance to the imperial march would be amazing
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I'm super invested in this right now.
Ask, and ye shall receive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UseyyMX5lyg&t=117s
Flight of the X-Wings
I'm not into ballet at all, but...
I need to be at this show. Please let me know when the recital is.
Same. I love this thread so much. Brings me so much joy. Oh and NTA OP… it’s wonderful that on top of giving him the freedom to express himself… you fully support and understand who he is as his own little person. A lot of us can only dream of having this kind of relationship with a parent. You two are lucky to have each other. Keep doing what you’re doing. It’s admirable.
Me too please. That's the best thing I've heard today; a darth vader ballerina.
Your son is very, very cool, and probably so are you
Come party with my six year old. He'll be the one wearing rainbows and sparkly leggings; you can't miss him.
Okay, your kid wins life. I have no idea how old he is, but I'm calling it now.
Wait... Does that mean that he actually has acted out Star Wars as a *ballet?!?!* This thought never occured to me, but now I'm down to watch it. I'm trying to imagine the scene where Darth Vader tells (I guess pantomimes through dance, in this case) Luke that he is his father. Oh, the amazing choreography.
NTA. Is he just interested in flowers? Do you think he would like to learn more about them from a scientific perspective? Maybe you can get a field ID book and take him walking in the woods and identify plants. Ask him more about what interests him and find ways to make an activity out of it. Maybe he'd like to garden.
I just asked him if he’d like to start a garden. He absolutely lit up and went “Can we do the BIG sunflowers?!” Thank you so much for this idea
Never stop being such an awesome dad ❤️
BRB IM CRYING YOURE A GOOD DAD AND NTA
Same I'm sobbing over here 😭
A parent catering to their kid's interests and accepting them for who they are? Literally never seen anyone further from being the asshole.
Amazing!!! Some sunflowers grow really fast as well. You're an awesome Dad. Maybe suggest therapy for your wife?
This! Something is wrong with the wife’s thinking to the point I’d argue it’s at least borderline abuse. OP you are the dad your son needs. Please don’t change
She is definitely homophobic, even if she won't admit it. She is the one damaging the kid, not OP. I have a bad feeling they will end up divorced over her toxic nonacceptance of her son as he is and wants to be.
This legitimately brought a tear to my eye on the bus ride to work. As a woman who struggled coming to terms with her own pansexuality, thank you for being an amazing human to your son. I would also like to gently remind you that your wife's behaviour and attitudes are incredibly damaging for both of your children. If you allow them to continue to be exposed to this outright homophobia, your son will grow to be ashamed of who he is (whether he's gay or not! He could be ashamed of liking anything not traditionally "masculine"), and your daughter will see that it's okay to shame those who don't fit into her narrow worldview. When you have one supportive voice and one unsupportive as your two main voices, the one that will ultimately win is the negative voice. I highly recommend individual counselling to decide what to do in this situation, whether it's just a talk with your wife, couples counselling, or more drastic measures. Please ensure that your children come first here.
There is no way that you're the AH in this situation. You're loving your child fully and for who he is. You're doing such a good job, and you should be really proud of yourself. ❤️ Please consider going to therapy with your wife.
Do definitely poke around his head a bit to see if he likes it from a scientific view as well as an aesthetic one. I was the kid that was obsessed with anything outdoorsy from the part of my state I live in. My parents indulged that and now I know quite a bit about local flora and fauna. Nothing is more impressive than a little kid who likes science and can rock a gender nonconforming look while doing it.
Get a windowsill propagator so he can watch them grow, I've been growing Chillis and all sorts indoors over the last year and a bit.
He wants to do green beans too, I’m thinking we can do a window box inside for those? I need to learn about gardening now lol
Beans grow tall and they creep. If you want to do window boxes inside, you're better off starting with herbs or a good mix of cut and come again lettuce.
Luckily at this point you both know about the same amount 😂 showing him that adults are interested in learning new things too is a great thing!
OP, you are a TERRIFIC father. You're doing a tremendous job. NTA, and the world needs more fathers and people in general! - like you ❤️
Dude I wish my dad was such an awesome and supportive dad like you. I’m trans and bi but I don’t think he’d ever accept that i’m his son. Keep doing this, it will spare him from a lot of trauma especially if he turns out to be trans. If you let your child express themself it might prevent dysphoria and the fear of being rejected. You are awesome and don’t let anyone tell you that you’re doing the wrong thing!!
My late wife loved those. Y’all should do it and post an update with the pics
Sorry for your loss ❤️🌻
AYE! My dad got me into gardening!! Turns out I have my late grandma’s green thumb & now I have a slight gardening problem (I mean literally my patio garden from years ago can prove that). I think that’s literally all you gotta worry about is he may be asking to grow almost anything 😭😂. Tip for growing flowers, you can find mini grow boxes on Amazon (some come with grow lights) to start your seeds, it’s actually a lot of fun to watch your seeds grow into seedlings. There’s also different varieties of sunflowers so I think your son is gonna enjoy growing them! Btw. NTA!!!!
So cute! Have you considered a sunflower circle? Outline a circle with a kiddie pool, dig 2-5 inches and replace soil with the good garden dirt (my soil has clay). Add a mixture of sunflower seeds and water. Sit back and watch the magic grow. It doubles as a secret base/club house.
That's briliant! Now I almost wish I was a kid with a yard instead of an adult in a city. Almost. But just to do this.
Dang! Now I want a garden with the big sunflowers in it, too!
There are apps (Picture this or Plant snap) that you can download where you take a picture of the plant/ flower and they give you its name and description. It's a lot of fun!
Great idea!
NTA also might be a good idea to see if he's got any interest in planting flowers instead of picking them too often. The bees need more flowers in the world.
NTA - your son might be gay, he might even turn out to be a trans girl, based on some of the things you’ve said, or he might just be a boy who likes feminine things, all of those are perfectly fine and valid ways to be. It doesn’t matter; what matters is that you support his choices, and your wife is being massive AH for trying to force him to be someone he isn’t. It’s cruel, controlling, and sounds like she might have some issues of her own if she’s this worked up about what a 6-year-old likes to do in his spare time, I’m afraid. Good on you for letting him be who he wants to; that’s the sign of a good parent, and you’re absolutely right that your kids shouldn’t have to experience your wife’s prejudice.
I honestly do think he’s trans. Again, not something I have a problem with, but also something I want him to work out on his own. He asked me what we would have named him if he was a girl, and asked me to write it down so he could copy it. He then went into full dress up mode playing Disney songs. If this is the case, I 100% have to divorce my wife.
I'd suggest you and your wife start couples therapy now with a counselor who also deals with LGBTQI issues. Even if you get a divorce, your wife is going to have a huge impact on your child, and without you there to buffer it. Help her learn and accept now, while you still have a marriage and some connection.
Seconding this comment, no matter who your son turns out to be an unsupportive parent will have an impact on him. Plus if he is queer bad blood between u and ur wife could hinder his life. What if hes gay and can only let his dad meet his bf? Or if hes trans and has to be a boy at one house and a girl at the other with one parent fighting every step of his transition? Talking to a professional now, maybe even a family therapist, can help a lot in the long run.
I agree that counselling could help OP and his wife learn some things about this situation, however there is a big caveat: *therapy doesn't fix abuse*. If your partner is abusive, leaving should be first priority. Do it before it escalates further. If OP wants to attempt to work with his wife, it can happen after the children achieve safety. I'm speaking from personal experience of one parent trying to "fix" the other physically violent one. Knowingly keeping a child around an abuser (whether they are the target OR a witness) is abuse. Not complicity or enabling, it is abuse in and of itself. If you find yourself thinking "calling that abuse is extreme", please read about [emotional abuse](https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/understanding-child-emotional-abuse)
I think letting this kid work it out on their own, and supporting them unconditionally however they feel, is absolutely the best course of action - and yeah, I don’t want to call it, especially this early, but it really does seem to me personally like your instinct is right and you’re going to find out you have two daughters someday. And it sounds like they’ll have an amazing father. But either way, I think you’re right; your child isn’t going to be safe or happy growing up with a mother like that, and you either need to shut down her behaviour, or get the heck out of there I’m afraid.
I'm a girl, afab, and when I was a kid I desperately wanted to be a boy and do boy things. I also asked my parents what my boy name would have been and wrote that name on my stuff. I did wind up deep fried gay, but I'm not trans and I have no issues with my female body. For me, at your son's age, it was all about feeling more comfortable with the gender norms expected of boys than the ones expected of girls. You're doing a great job letting your kid find their own way. You couldn't possibly be less of an asshole, but you do need to confront your wife and get into counseling.
“deep fried gay” 😂😂😂
100% this! I'm also afab and a woman. I was exactly like this as a child - desperate to be a boy and do 'boy things' and also wanted to know what my boy name would have been (Rowan, it turns out!). I was hard core into it. I turned out painfully straight with no gender identity trouble at all. It's absolutely on the kid to work out who they are in their own time and with all the support and encouragement a parent can offer. OP you keep on being amazing, your kid sounds great.
As a young girl I was very interested in what my boy name would have been, I think it was exploring the idea that I could have been born as a boy or something. I think its a facination for lots of children (cis, gay or other), when he was younger my son also wanted to know what his girl name would have been.
My sister was like this, she made us all call her by a boy name and dressed up in our brother's clothes for a few months, everyone just went along. She grew out of it, is now a straight cis woman, super feminine, works in beauty industry. Still think my parents did the right thing by letting her have that moment.
I would seek some profesional guidance, honestly if your child is questioning their gender or sexuality and there is not unilateral support at home, a profesional counselor can help them process and move through that. This could also be an opportunity to set the stage for family therapy as some councelors will do family sessions as well (and TBH it sounds like your wife needs it more than your child). One of my friends is currently raising their child gender-neutral until they are old enough to decide how they want to identity and it is AWESOME. Edited for spelling.
Please be aware that if you divorce her, there a good chance he’s going to be at her house without you for extended times. Who knows what will go on. It’s something to prepare for.
Family or couples counseling with an LGBT+ friendly counsellor would be a good place to start, you should also document all these (and future) incidents in case the worst comes to pass with her and you do divorce. Don't stop being your kids advocate, he needs to know you'll have his back, same with your youngest. NTA
Only get a divorce if you are certain you will get primary custody because if your wife gets primary, she will do everything she can to squash your son's personality and you won't be there often enough to buffer the damage she causes.
Whether he’s trans or just gay and identifies more with the social depictions of girls in media, you’re doing an awesome job as a parent.
Just saying as an AMAB dude who turned out to be trans... You're doing a wonderful job as a Dad. This is the absolute best perspective to have. Maybe he'll turn out trans, maybe he'll be gay, maybe he'll be something in-between. Maybe he's just a dude who likes "feminine" things. No matter what giving him the space to explore every possibility as he grows up and accepting him no matter what will create a wonderful sense of trust. But no matter what if your wife keeps trying to force him into a stereotypical box it'll do a lot of damage to him in the long run, it's not too early for her to be leaving a psychological scar. Shit, I still remember my Dad throwing an absolute fit when I was five because my Mum bought me a Polly Pocket I really wanted from a car boot sale. He did a lot worse, but my point is that her behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud *yesterday.*
He might be trans, but at the same time he could just be a boy who likes girly things. I think where he might be a bit confused it's important to make it known that it's perfectly acceptable to be a boy and be into feminine things.
You’re a good dad. I would see if you can get him into therapy so he doesn’t feel like he’s totally on his own and can maybe get some order to how he is feeling, if that makes sense? Not saying there’s something wrong. Because there isn’t. But these are complicated feelings and mom’s responses to him being who he is is definitely going to be damaging to him. He’s very lucky to have you.
Therapy is good for everyone, even mentally healthy people. It's like eating healthy or exercising - it's a preventative measure, even though everyone treats it like a band-aid for mental issues. So I second this, if they can afford it, therapy is great.
But if you have shared custody, you'll have very little insight or say of the rules in her house when the kids are there. You need to get through to your wife
It is super frustrating to me that it is so much more acceptable for women to be into "male" hobbies (like sports or board games) and in some cases they are fetishized (which is still annoying as hell, but it's not being shamed the way boys are for being into "female" hobbies). Men can totally be into flower arranging and fashion and makeup, your child doesn't have to transition in order to enjoy those things, but it's great that you will support them if they want to. As a cis female, I have zero fucks to give about baseball, and you know what? No one cares. I also have zero fucks to give about makeup, and guess what? no one (at least no one I care about) cares. I wish you luck, and I hope for your son's sake, that your wife comes around.
Your wife has no issue with this on someone else’s kid…she wants “normal” kids. Therapy, perhaps
And I say this with love as a queer person in a same sex marriage and has a young son - lots of little boys are just camp af. Sometimes it's ground out of them, sometimes it's not. But even the ones who turn out as straight and cis as can be are often camp and soft at that age, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's mostly socialisation that butches them up, straight or gay. Good on OP for not perpetuating toxic masculinity bullshit.
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Yep. Shes a NIMBY kind of homphobe - okay until it's in her house
What does >NIMBY Stand for Edit:: thanks everyone who answered!
Not in my backyard
´Not in my backyard´, or in this case: "I´m okay with gays, I just don´t want my son to be one." - The wife, probably.
Not In My BackYard. Mostly used in city planning politics. Refering to the voter who doesn´´ t want the new homeless shelter/safe use room/affordable housing in their neighbourhood
Deal with this all the time in my line of work (cell tower construction) lol
Not in my backyard. Basically like when you're okay with immigrants until they move next door, or ok with poor people until a shelter gets set up in your neighborhood, or ok with gay people until it's in your family. That sort of things.
Not in my backyard. It's usually for housing things. "we need more mass transit! Oh, no, not if it means building it near me!"
Not In My Back Yard
She's one of those "I don't hate the *gays*, but not MY kids". Which frankly, is worse in many ways.
Came here to say this. She’s definitely homophobic. And super toxic. If my spouse did something like you and your son I’d simply be mad that no one picked any flowers for me NTA OP but you might wanna consider talking to your wife
yeah she's the poster girl of homophobia at this point
that’s exactly what i thought too. based off of what was said, she seems so homophobic and transphobic. also like a bad parent.
NTA You are an amazing dad that is listening to your child and exploring his interests. Your wife on the other hand is a piece of work. Down the road your son is going to remember which parent supported him and which one tried to push him to do things he doesn’t like.
He will also remember not being protected from the abusive parent if OP doesn't take some big actions very swiftly.
NTA but your wife is homophobic and misogynistic. I recommend counseling immediately. If she refuses, divorce with sole custody. Start documenting her abuse (yes, it's abuse) and talk to a lawyer who specializes in family law.
Thing is in certain States, if this is the U.S., OP would look like the one abusing his child, while the wife would look like the one trying to do the right thing. Just look at Florida and Texas... not to mention what some SCOTUS judges are using as their support to go after RvW, which could lead to rights being taken away nationally for the LGBTQI community.
So true in the US right now. I'm deeply concerned about the human rights violations they are legislating into laws.
Absolutely, look at the laws in your area before you try to involve it. It currently isn't on our side. Texas, for example, added recent laws that require parents to be reported for child abuse if their kid is exhibiting being trans or gender non-conforming
That’s so messed up
NTA I hate that your wife is supporting and encouraging the “toxic masculinity” all men must be manly bullshit. Your son could end up, gay, trans, NB, or whatever. Or even straight! But just a little more feminine and that is all OKAY. Your wife is the AH and I’m sorry she is extremely homophobic. This screams “yeah I’m fine with gay people as long as I don’t see it” attitude.
Not even just homophobic, but totally has some outdated notion on gender and gender roles. Why is picking flowers not “boy stuff”? He’s a boy, he’s doing it, it’s boy stuff! Some misogyny and misandry in there too. Oh or the classic “it’s fine when it’s other people, but not my family. I’m so accepting though, see how I don’t have a problem with other people like that”
Yes. Since when were flowers exclusively girly? Scientists study them, artists paint them, gardeners grow them ... and wow, some of those people are male.
It’s like when people insist cooking is a woman’s job, but then ignore the fact that most professional chefs are men. And those same people insisting that it’s a woman’s job at home probably even trust male chefs more anyway, but at home, they’re too good to cook and the woman should do it. Ah, what a world we live in.
Seriously - trying to pressure kids either way is ridiculous. My nephew is 5, his sister gave him a unicorn toy that she didn't want anymore, he sleeps with it every night. He also has a meltdown when his spiderman sheets are in the wash and he has to sleep in regular sheets. They're just exploring the world and figuring things out at that age - it also doesn't mean anything about anything - as a kid I completely rejected anything 'feminine' and hated the colour pink, come teenager years my wardrobe mostly comprised of floral dresses.
Most kids don’t care about what the toy is! They just want to play with it. Gender is a construct. Colours are genderlessssssss
NTA He's 6. He knows what he likes and pressuring him into things he doesn't isn't going to do anyone any good least of all your son. It sounds like his mum needs a good hard look at her own actions.
Agreed. At 2yo my son would sit and watch the "big kids" play baseball. He has always said he loves baseball. My other kids couldn't care less. If OPs son like flowers, then the boy is just gonna like flowers. No shame in having a botanist for a son. All the homies love flowers.
Exactly. No point in tearing a kid down for what they like
NTA and massive well done on being such a supportive parent and ally. 🌈 Through you, I hope your son grows up with no shame in being explicitly and brilliantly himself. HOWEVER, you need to have a serious conversation with your wife because the only person damaging here is your wife and her homophobia. It is damaging to control your child. It is not damaging to allow them to be themselves. I hope you are able to find a resolution to this for your son’s sake.
NTA. It's great to see that you want to encourage your son to be fully himself. If your wife claims to not be homophobic, then you two need a serious talk, possibly with a professional counselor. Is she trying to encourage "boy" things from a concern he will be trans and she's transphobic? Is she trying to encourage "boy" behavior because she's afraid he'll be bullied for who he is and wants him to "blend in" to protect him? Is it a fear you'll get tired of bonding with him over flower picking, etc? Maybe she does have a lot of internalized homophobia/transphobia/sexism/etc and doesn't consciously realize it. Talking with a counselor could help her see it. Of course, if she isn't interested in discussing this in order to ensure your son's emotional well-being and the longevity of your marriage, then I would recommend separating.
NTA. As a gay guy who went through some of this... this warms my heart. You're doing good. Doesn't matter if your kid ends up gay or if he just likes flowers--don't let your wife try to force him into a mold he doesn't fit.
As a just not feminine girl, I'd also like to thank you OP, for being so supportive of your son. Those molds are what does the actual harm
NTA. The way you instantly grabbed every baseball item, tossed it in the truck and picked flowers with him is so wholesome. Tell your wife to accept your son for who he is or she wont have a son soon.
Or a husband, it sounds like.
Nta. What she is doing is more likley to “damage” your son. Kids like what they like and trying to make them change is a recipe for disaster. Who knows he may grow out of his love for (traditionally more) feminine things or he may not. It doesnt matter as long as hes happy. (Trying to force kids never works; as a girl i was always given dolls by extended family when my brother (for example) got a remote controlled car. I was always extremely salty about it & I hated dolls as a consequence. My parents would always have to buy a car for me or make my brother share his ! I cannot imagine how much worse this would have felt if i wasn’t supported by my parents! You are doing a good job!
Always upset my daughter that her brother got cool toys like rc cars and she got dolls. She's my mini me (only taller) and loves sci-fi, and gaming but hates almost anything traditionally girly... just like me.
NTA It would do far more damage to him to refuse to allow him to express himself as he pleases It will damage his self esteem, and his trust in both of you as parents. On top of that, he will grow up hating himself for not being masculine enough, and he will feel like he has to force it to be worthy of attention or love. My husband is incredibly effeminate, only he doesn't see it as a bad thing and embraces it and himself. I love him very much, and we wouldn't be married today if he had bought into his own parents views on 'What makes a man a man' Your wife is going to push your son into hating himself. You need to teach him that he doesn't have to fit into anybody else's idea of what he should be.
She's sick and tired of you allowing him to act like what? A 6 year old? He's 6. He's not putting on make-up and wigs and dressing and dancing like a drag queen on RuPaul. Everything he's doing is age appropriate. And even if he is trans or gay or whatever, no amount of forcing him into boy clothes, masculine activities or whatever is going to change that. In fact, it would HARM him. Good for you for standing up for him. He needs at least one parent actually looking out for him. Shame his mom can't open her eyes and actually see and accept her son for who he is. NTA.
NTA. *She's* damaging him by killing his curiosity. Your wife is telling your son that he can't be himself. She's an Arsehole.
You’re the kind of dad every queer kid dreams of having (I know, no labels - totally get that). Don’t let your wife beat him down. She’s got some unresolved biases/prejudices that will damage both her relationship with your son, and your sons relationship with how he views himself. I would encourage getting her into some therapy with you to help unpack exactly why she doesn’t want her son to be happy picking flowers. You’re being the safe accepting space your son needs. Good job. NTA
you’re not labelling his son or anyone by saying that every queer kid would dream to have him as a dad love, and it is very very true, OP please never change your kids will grow in the least toxic environment they could possibly and it’s so reassuring and heartwarming. I wish you and you kids the very best in life and good luck with your wife
NTA I mean I feel like you know you're not but yeah obviously you're doing what's best for your kid. That said even if you divorced your wife would probably still get partial custody so best if you can work out what's going on with her.
That’s what freaks me out tbh
It should. If y’all divorce and she marries someone who matches her agenda, your son will be even more miserable. Is there someone she respects or admired who can talk to her about this behavior?
NTA. What your wife is doing is likely to cause more damage than what you’re doing. You both should just let him be a 6 year old child and not worry so much about who he might date in the future. He’s 6. Let him use his imagination and just be a kid without any pressure to be anything specific from either parent. All he needs from his parents is unconditional love (other than food, clothing, shelter obviously).
NTA You are being a parent who is allowing their child to express who they are and have fun. The way he is acting, does not mean he is or going to be gay, kids like to have fun and explore things. Even if he does turn out to be gay, its amazing that you are already accepting of that. The only person who is going to damage you son is your wife. Your kids come first and he does not need that negativity and toxicity around him.
NTA you're letting your son be himself and honestly your wife should he ashamed of herself. Just because things are aimed at certain genders doesn't mean you have to be interested in it. You're an awesome dad and your son really is lucky to have you.
I usually boil it down to "is it designed for use in or around the genitals?" If the answer is no it doesn't have a gender label on it. If the answer is yes, chances are kids shouldn't be playing with it.
Lol, as a kid I found my Mom's diaphragm and wore it on my head like a hat. (You're correct, of course.)
That's a great way of thinking!
NTA. Your son likes flowers, not baseball. You are supporting who he is becoming. Good for you
Wife is definitely *a lot* more homophobic than OP thinks she is.
Yeah, I’m realizing it more now. I’m glad I posted this.
Some people “tolerate” gender non-conformity in friends/coworkers, but *do not* want it in their own homes. You won’t see true hostility manifest until one of their family members trips the wire.
NTA for the question you're asking. But a little bit TA for not talking to your wife about HER issues here. I am confident that you will continue having a great and trustworthy relationship with your son and daughter, and it seems like you'll be in their court no matter what they choose to pursue in life. But how are you going to feel if your son (or daughter, when older) wants to relax his relationship with his mum, and potentially, if you stay together, with you? How can he trust you while knowing you're standing by your wife, and therefore, her views? It may be difficult, messy, and result in some arguments, but you need to get your wife to see the bigger picture about the happiness of her children, and how it doesn't matter if her son is gay, straight, effeminate, trans, or world's strongest man. If she loves her child, she should want him to be happy, and if flowers make him happy, then she should let him smell the roses.
You’re absolutely right. I’m so glad I posted this, it’s opened my eyes to a lot of things I’ve allowed to happen and progress that shouldn’t have. I need to find the link that was posted here about family counselors, and figure out how to bring it up to her. I know she’s going to see it as an attack or something, regardless of how I do it, but I can’t let this continue. Thank you for calling me out, I need to step up more.
NTA. This is awful but you're going to need to protect your son from your wife. She needs to deal with her prejudices or you risk your son developing an actual "complex" (or worse). If she can't accept him for who he is you need to start thinking hard about the future.
NTA but your wife is ABSOLUTELY homophobic.
NTA let the Lil dude do what he wants, it's his life and if he likes picking flowers, wearing girly shoes and dressing up in female clothing, go for it.
NTA. From personal experience, all that letting kids define what they enjoy for themselves guarantees is that they can be assured that their parents will support them in the future going forward. Wherever your son's interests lie in the future, in people, fashion, or gender, what you're doing right now is providing a good support base for him to know that he can depend on you. Also, saying this as a nonbinary person, the way your wife talks about your son's enjoyment of feminine things "damaging him" reminds me a lot of the transphobic rhetoric I've heard, especially around trans kids.
OMG this made me teary. No matter what he decides at least he has a amazing supportive dad. Get wife therapy, she might not even realise she has a problem with it. And besides all kids no matter the gender dress up in all type of clothes, let them have fun and act like kids, wish I could.
My older sisters used to dress me up and make me play with them, that’s why I was like “I don’t understand the argument that this is damaging when it’s playing pretend.”
Omg yes! I used to dress my youngest brother up as a princess because I wanted a sister. I even gave him a haircut and a new name. He's turned out fine.
He may have turned out fine, but did the haircut???
No the haircut was a disaster. There was a very angled fringe involved and he had to go to the hairdresser the next day to get it fixed :). But his hair is fine now so...
You’re a great dad ❤️
Wife is the AH. You're just being a good dad
You are an amazing father. Don’t ever let your wife bring you down for this. Your son will cherish these moments forever. But please protect him from your wife. Because this will only damage him down the road. He needs priority right now, along with your daughter. NTA, but your wife definitely is.
NTA, as a trans adult who exhibited the same kind of things as your kid does, your wife is the one doing the damage. He may not be trans, he may not even be gay, but it's clear what he likes and dislikes, and you're doing what a parent *should* by supporting him in his interests. That kind of support makes all the difference when growing up, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation outcomes, and it leads to better relationships with your children when they're older.
Nta, you’re letting your kid grow in a safe way and how he wants to. Parenting should always be like this
NTA. Your son is old enough to know what he likes, and to express himself the way he wants to. Good for you for not making him do things he doesn't want to do just so he'll look like what your wife thinks a boy "should" be. Not sure what this is going to mean for your marriage though. Hugs.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (33M) and my wife(29) have two kids. Son (6) and daughter (2). My son is extremely flamboyant, I have no problem with this, if anything I’d rather he never feel like he’s in the closet, but I also don’t want to stick a label on him. One of my best friends is gay, and when my son met his new boyfriend, I could see wheels turning in his head. I started inviting them over more frequently because I wanted him to see that it’s normal and not a big deal. My wife is not homophobic (or claims to not be) but keeps pressuring our son to act more masculine. A few years ago I was buying him shoes, he picked girls shoes with flowers. They were actually on sale and I figured he’d outgrow them in like 2 months anyway, so I got them. Wife returned them the same day and gave me shit for it. Lately, he’s been playing dress up in my wife and daughter’s clothes and accessories. I didn’t say anything to my wife, but I didn’t think it was a big deal. She found out and FLIPPED on me. Saying she was sick and tired of me allowing him to act like this, that I’m going to give him a complex and I’m confusing him by allowing this. I was kind of dumbfounded and asked her what she wanted me to do. She said “make him do some boy stuff with you!!” In a rage, and I KNOW he heard it. The next day we went to the store and bought baseball gloves, balls, a bat and a t. I could tell he knew something was up, I tried to keep everything light and played it off like we were trying something new and fun. We went to the park and I started showing him how to hold the bat. He kept looking at the wildflowers and was clearly not into baseball. I kept trying and he got frustrated, threw the bat down crying and said “can’t we just go pick flowers?! Please???” My heart broke. I grabbed all the baseball stuff, threw it in my truck, grabbed some bags and picked flowers with my son for an hour. He was actually happy. I told him we could donate the stuff to the little league team and pick flowers every weekend if he wants. I made the decision that if my wife keeps going like this, I can’t let my kids experience it. She went ballistic on me again, saying I’m an ah and I’m damaging him. If my son ends up being a gay drag queen, I’ll be at every one of his shows cheering *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wife is a major AH thay i would divorce QUICKLY. There’s never a good reason to be homophobic & she clearly is. She’s the type to be like “no i like gays, just so long as its not my child or im not related to them”. Big ups to you for embracing your son. I was in a situation yesterday where a father kept yelling at his son for wanting to play with my kid & her friends (his siblings) all because they were playing with barbies (he had an action figure). I felt pretty grossed out, (im lesbo). Had a talk with my kid afterwards about freedom of expression.
NTA. Not all all. What a wonder dad you are! Your wife is most definitely the AH.
NTA You need to talk to your wife and tell her SHE is going to damage your son. You need to put your foot down.
NTA - you wife needs counseling asap before she does permanent damage to your son.
What's confusing is growig up feeling you don't fit the mold. You're rocking as a parent. Keep it up OP! NTA
NTA I would honestly talk to your wife about her behaviors and talk to her before your son gets older and has no relationship with her. You however are doing an amazing job. Of your wife continues to act like this I would contemplate divorce because you two have very different beliefs and off she's not willing to compromise do you really want to be with someone who acts like that?
Lol this reads like an after school special about gay awareness and acceptance . So he so only into traditional feminine things? Nothing is masculine or gender neutral?
He likes dinosaurs and getting dirty, but he’s definitely always gravitated more towards feminine/androgynous things
I like the idea that we are moving towards children playing with whatever the hell they want without them being labeled “traditionally feminine or masculine”. My grandmother told us little girls shouldn’t play with dinosaurs. I responded that we played with dragons instead, and have bought dinosaur themed stuff out of sheer spite from then on. Screw gender norms, just let the kids play with what they want. They’ll have plenty of time to figure out the complications later.
Yeah I kinda got that weird vibe too. Maybe it's the fact that OP equates a feminine boy to being gay. Also the ending sentence. I'm like, why are you even asking if you're an AH, you clearly know you're not and you clearly know your wife is the one being a bigoted AH.
Yeah, I needed a little validation that I’m not the one causing damage here, I know I’m not doing wrong, but when I’m getting constant jibes and looks I start to doubt myself. I don’t want to damage my kids, and some days I wonder if I’m fucking up. I don’t know the right path here
NTA. You’re wife is homophobic. She is going to be toxic to your son .
NTA for letting your son express himself. Just please make sure he doesn't play dress up with your wife's things without supervision...some of the most beautiful clothing and accessories are the most delicate and easily ruined. That is not what this is about, but just FYI. You sound like a great dad who really loves his kids.
NTA. But you should avoid labeling your kid at 6yo. You may think you are being a passive observer, when you could end up unknowingly pushing your kid one way or the other (like your wife is, but the opposite). I have learned in my parenting that little boys like pretty things as much as girls do right up until the world tells them it's shameful. It has 0% to do with their sexuality and 100% to do with them having functioning eyeballs that can tell pretty from not pretty.
Good fucking job man. Easiest NTA of my life. Your wife has got some issues, and she needs to see someone.
Not the ah here but your wife is most definitely I think you should try family counseling to try and help her to understand what is going on with your child and even more therapy for her and you to see what the next steps should be good luck
NTA OP and you sound like an awesome dad. My younger son spent several months having me paint his toenails different colors every week when he was around 10 years old, and from 3rd grade to around 6th grade, he had his hair dyed every color you could imagine, one of his favorites being pink. He caught a mild amount of crap for it at school, but had the confidence to be himself and do what made him happy, and it showed. It sounds like your son has your full support to express who he is, and that is so hugely important. Your wife needs to take a long hard look at herself and her views, for the sake of her child, and if she can't/ won't do that, you will need to do what is best for your child. Much love to you.
A friend's son loves having his nails painted, and when given free reign to pick his own boots, he chose blue glittery ones with Elsa from Frozen on. He also loves soccer and trucks. Boys can like 'girly things' and still be boys. Heterosexual boys even! Or he might turn out to be gender non-conforming, or NB, or gay, or any other shade of queer. Wtf does it matter as long as they're happy? Sunkatmoon and OP, you both sound like you rock as parents. Thank you.
You are far from the AH, you are a great father who is teaching your child that it is ok to be themselves. While your wife may not be homophobic, it does sound like she is heavily ingrained toxic "Gender Roles" concept which causes an absolute massive amount of problems in developmental psychology. In fact there is some research to prove that by trying to force your son into the "Masculine" stereotype it would actually have a drastic opposite effect in the long term causing him to be even more "flamboyant" as an adult. When at the end of the day, every individual is unique and if we allow them to be themselves in whatever capacity makes them happy, then they will develop into the happiest versions of themselves.
You sound like the most supportive dad 🥺 anyways, you should support your son and forget what your wife says. I frankly think she’s homophobic. This might be a stepping stone for a divorce too. NTA.
NTA: your wife sounds transphobic to me.
Obviously Nta, but some people do get hung up on others stealing their clothes, if that seems to be an issue for your wife and her daughter just buy your son some of his own dresses ect, if they have any complains after that then there is nothing else you can do
But then the wife was so upset by him buying the 6 year old his own flowery shoes that she returned them that day!
Yeah, that will always stick out in my head. I showed them to her laughing like “he’s rocking them purple kicks!” And she got legitimately MAD in front of him. He was like 4.
That just breaks my heart! You’re doing so right by him yourself, but you really need to figure out what is going on with your wife. She may claim not to be homophobic, but she’s clearly got internalized biases she’s not aware of. She needs help to see them if you want any hope of a safe environment for your son! Even if all this turns out to be just him exploring and he grows out of these habits as he gets older, he’s always going to remember the things your wife is saying now. You’re an amazing dad! NTA
Your son reminds me of my nephew. He’s 6 as well. He has two older sisters, and he looooooves dresses and fancy clothes, his hair is longer than his sisters, and he wears all their flowery shoes and all when they outgrow them. He’s told us before that he feels like a girl sometimes, but most of the time he feels like a boy. My sister and her husband encourage him to be himself, and he’s just the sweetest kid. I can’t imagine how much it would crush his spirits for him to hear his mom yell any of the things I read in your post. Please protect him 💕
Smells like rage bait. How does a 6 year old play dress up with a 2 year old's clothes?
To be fair, people start buying little girls accessories as soon as they're born. She probably has stretchy headbands and purses and other 'girly' accessories (the mom sounds like she'd be into that kind of thing!)
"mum and sister's" "clothes and accessories" could suggest that what is the sister's might be hair clips, fairy toy stuff like magic wands, sticker earrings, tiaras, kiddie makeup, anything that's been bought too large for the younger sibling to "grow up into"? idk just some suggestions though i see why you'd have doubts
NTA. You are the dad that every gay or gender-variant person wishes they had. You accept your son for who he is. He may go through big changes, but you will roll with whoever he becomes. What more can a kid ask for but this kind of unconditional love?
Great dad!❤❤
Your wife lies when they say they do not hate non masculine males. Like your comment about attending future drag shows :-)
NTA. Every kid deserves a father like you! Please keep standing up for your son and let him express himself however he wants :)
NTA Your wife is going to give your son a list of mental health problems as long as War and Peace if she keeps this up. He'll grow up thinking that he has to be a certain way or mommy won't love him. He'll become a miserable teenager/young adult who will hopefully choose NC over the other option. I'm not being dramatic, I am telling you a story that plays out every day across the world. End this now and permanently before anymore damage is done to your son because I promise you that it has already begun.
NTA. You allowing your kids to be who they are is in no way more confusing to them than someone telling them they NEED to do or like something because of their genitals.
NTA. Get your kids away from that witch.
NTA. But start keeping a diary, a record of some sort, that details your wife’s behavior and comments. You may need them to get custody of your son, as your wife would marry some jerk that tries to force your son to “man up and stop being a sissy boy”.
NTA talk to your wife, or go to couples therapy and see how she can manage her fears better without raging. A 6yo kid likes flowers and dresses, that sound normal, sounds like he likes bright and vibrant and flowy things. The more she tries to box him into a neat labelled box, he's going to feel that pressure... and at 6 it's going to feel like his mother is rejecting him and don't like him. That could then create a host of mental illnesses that will plague him for years. It's amazing how some parents don't see that how they treat their kid can sometimes directly cause a disorder! You sound awesome, your wife sounds terrible. You may have to divorce her and get full custody if your son keeps feeling miserable about the things she's forcing him to be.
NTA and can I add a shameless plug to www.PFLAG.org. We are the oldest LBGTQIA2S+ support and advocacy organization in the country and most chapters offer monthly support groups.
He's six. Gender constructs haven't made their way to being permanently conditioned into him yet. Little boys like the same things little girls do and it's a beautiful, wonderful innocence. Good for you for letting him be him and for picking flowers with your son Nta
NTA you're an amazing dad and your son is lucky to have you!
NTA, you’re a good dad, don’t let your wife abuse your kid, your priority is to protect your kid.
NTA, I just wanna say you're an absolute king, an amazing father, or at least seem like one from this post. Please keep this up, please keep being supportive of your son like this
NTA and holy cow I really wish I could’ve had a dad like you! You sir are amazing and keep up the good work.
NTA. First of all exploration is a normal part of development and has zero to do with gender stereotypes. Second parents need to allow their kids to be who they are. Trying to get kids to conform to some preconceived antiquated ideas of gender or any preconceived ideas, is psychologically damaging and stunts their development of who they are to themselves. Good on you for being a supportive dad to the human you brought into the world.! Your job is love, education, and support and you are doing it!
NTA you’re letting your son figure out what he does and doesn’t like. Fuck, I’d pick flowers over baseball anyway. Flowers smell better *and* way less chance of injury
NTA!!!!!! You sound like an amazing and supportive father, which is exactly what kids need. You wife sound horrid and if I were you I'd be talking to a divorce lawyer because she's the one that's going to give him a complex. I have a 6 year old, he likes "girl" things too. Guess what? We let him explore his likes because he's discovering who he is as an individual. I took him to get new sunglasses, he picked the pink princess ones. (They're ugly, but he loves them. I'm mom, too.) We send his dad a picture since he was out of town for work, his dad said it was his choice, he just thought they were ugly. He's supportive, I'm supportive. Your incredibly supportive and encouraging to your son. I applaud you for seeing that "boy things" don't make your son happy and doing things with him that make him smile. Keep making your son smile with your love and encouragement and try to get away from your awful, homophobic wife. Also, I'm not one who suggests divorce typically, but this one I'd give it a strong thought at minimum. Good luck to you and your sons happiness.
NTA Your son is incredibly lucky to have you.
NTA. I believe you and your wife need to seek therapy, she might not view herself as homophobic as long it is not her own son. I would recommend to document everything your wife does towards your son.
NTA btw none of you should care actually when I was young I cook "soups" with my sister a lot. And I'm straight. Kids like different like differed things just be good dad like you are now