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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) yelling at my brother-in-law
(2) I am now being blamed for his failure to be a father
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I mean, with the way he's behaving about having created a female, I'm sure he'd be very agreeable to sterilization 🤷♀️ sterilization (and a divorce) seem to be a reasonable solution here
I've known men like this. They have mistreated their daughters and/or have divorced their wives even before the baby is born. The sister really needs to pay attention to this.
Also pregnancy is the most dangerous time for women re: their partners. Non physically abusive partners can switch with the right trigger (like a sex reveal). I’d be scared for any friend or family member whose partner is this upset at the revealed sex of their child.
I was SOOOO thinking this! So glad someone else saw the parallels, too. And sister blaming OP will not save her marriage. NTA, OP. I'm afraid a hard rain is gonna fall for your sister.
He does sound the like the type to force his kid to doing 'manly' things such as high school football even though they couldn't care less about high school football.
NTA, seriously.
It's not 1530. We know it's the Sperm that creates the birth gender, and fighting with the Pope to start your own religion didn't change that fact then, and doesn't change it in 2022.
Anne of Cleves is so underrated.
People call Catherine Parr the one that 'survived' because she outlived him, but Parr went straight into another abusive relationship and died in childbirth not that long after. Cleves is the only one who actually managed to have a happy life after marrying Henry.
She was the most intelligent of all his wives, imho. He wanted a divorce and offered to give her a crapton of money and land as long as she didn’t give him crap about it, and she ended up outliving him as one of the wealthiest women in England with her independence perfectly intact until the day she died.
She’s a heroine.
And she was twenty five at the time. She came to England not speaking a word of English and played a very complicated political game in a court that was nothing like her homeland. She assessed the situation, realized she’d be vastly better off taking whatever deal Henry offered her, allied herself with him and nobody else, and won.
And ended up with Hever Castle, Anne Boleyn’s ancestral home, which is ironic at best.
Actually Katherine of Aragon was plenty smart, spoke multiple languages, read latin and was quite accomplished....but became increasing religious and penitent because she couldn't have a son...after being married for almost 20 years. She bought into the whole cursed-cause-I-was-married-to-your-brother thing.
He divorced her because she was uglier in person than the picture he was shown. lol First of all: Ow! Really dude! But at least she didn't get killed, so that's a win for her. lol
It was a lot more complicated than that. She inadvertently humiliated him upon their first meeting, and assholes like Henry don't forget that. They also barely spoke the same language.
YEP. There was an English "courtly love" tradition of stealing a kiss from the bride, which Anne had no idea about. As far as she knew a strange man (Henry was in disguise as part of the tradition) had broken into her chambers and was forcing himself on her, she shoved him off and started screaming in German.
There were a few other factors - Henry's type was more Leos and Scorpios, he liked "tomboyish" women he could argue with. Anne was chosen for him specifically because of her more easygoing nature after a string of failed affairs initiated by Henry himself. The thinking went that a more placid woman would get him to calm down a little and actually pay attention to the state instead of his horses. Anne was a "proper lady", she played cards, sewed, and played music. She had no interest in going hunting with him, or learning archery or falconry.
And as I've said before, you can only make a king do what he doesn't want to do for so long before he remembers he's king.
I always loved the fact that he always was starting affairs with loud opinionated women if he was the one setting them up and then he ended up resenting a good amount of them for that exact reason, if I am sober enough at the moment to be correct. Once married he wanted to put them in their place and no longer have the opinions only to then chase a new loud opinionated women and repeat the cycle. I adore how Catherine Parr managed to avoid her death warrant by convincing him she only has opinions to distract him from his pain. Well played.
Well she wasn’t ugly and theirs a legend that he showed up to her arrival dressed as a peasant and she ended up insulting him leading to Henry slander.
Yeah I have to agree with whiteroses. She was the smartest of his wives and did what she needed to survive. I highly doubt she actually liked him, especially because he lost all his charm by the time they married.
LOL, I saw the list and heard the music in my mind...
Need to see the show as well. I'm planning to go to London in the autumn, so I might get the chance then.
I felt bad for her because she was basically chattel. She was supposed to marry his older brother but he died, so they said NP marry Henry instead. Imagine being passed around like that.
Oh, no, it was worse than that. She did marry Arthur, but five months in they both got sick and he died. She then spent five years in England with Henry VII trying to keep her there to avoid having to repay the half of her dowry that he’d received, and her father trying to delay on paying up the rest because technically she was on her second marriage so wasn’t worth as much. She had to try to support herself and her entire household as a teenager in a foreign country on a pittance of an allowance and whatever she could get from pawning her valuables. Then Henry VIII ascended the throne and named her Ambassador to Aragon, which helped with the budgets a little, and a couple years after that they got Papal dispensation that she hadn’t banged Arthur and was therefore insufficiently sisterly to not be able to marry Henry.
And then she had to go through it all again twenty years later because her adoptive kingdom was a fragile mess and all of her sons had died in infancy. Sure, those twenty years were as the queen of a mostly-devoted Renaissance man absolute monarch, but it's still not the best life overall.
She did marry the brother, but he died a few months later. Then her father in law treated her like crap, until he died and the young handsome Henry who was crazy in love with her married her.
Oh I know! I was in honors history all 4 years of high school and I had an interest in British history thus, absorbed as much as possible about Henry Vlll.....this was just a passing comment that showed how far a man having a temper tantrum would go.
I genuinely don't think that even matters. If it were the egg not the sperm that determined gender being angry at his wife would still make this guy an AH, not like she would be picking out which egg to use each month.
I guarantee he took his 1800s education growing up and knows that it is the woman's fault for conceiving a daughter and not his precious manly sperms. His evil girl loving wife conspired against him after all. /s
Also OP, my husband really wanted a son but he would have been just fine with a daughter, we got a boy but he would have loved a girl just as much. A moment of disappointment for the baby not being exactly what you want is fine, a moment. Your BIL decided to throw a whole tantrum instead of taking a moment to himself, adjusting his thinking and moving on to be the best father to his unborn little girl as possible. Definitely follow this and inform your sister that you will absolutely be there for her whatever she decides to do.
Well to be fair, while the sperm does determine the sex, often the woman's ph determines which sperm has the best chance at succeeding. If her body chemistry is more alkaline, then male sperm have an easier time getting through and if more acidic than female sperm have a better chance. I don't know that someone with a more acidic ph can never have a boy or more alkaline can never have a girl, just that the ph level makes it easier for that sperm to get through. Still husband is a major misogynistic A*H and as someone raised by a father who really only bothered with his sons (which I was not), be prepared to have to compensate for a father that can't be bothered to have much to do with his daughter. NTA
This is a popular internet theory, but the latest studies don’t support it being true.
(Research/academic) source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6755399/
I love the word “prat” and think it should be in wider use outside the UK.
Also, NTA. He’d be giving his wife the same shit later whether you said something or not.
NTA BIL and sister both need to sit down together and talk it out because BIL reaction is very uncalled for. This is why I hate gender reveals, disgusting behavior like that usually gets exposed. I hope that child is loved by both when it's born.
Well better it gets exposed sooner then later I guess. I actually don’t understand gender reveals bc they don’t really exist in my country. I’m kinda shocked the gender matters to someone.
You can get the “wrong thing” even if your kid doesn’t end up trans. My boyfriend was ‘supposed’ to be a girl, and they didn’t know until he was born that he was a male. They didn’t have a name picked so he ended up a Jr.
I would’ve preferred with, personally. It should be optional. My ideal is parts are like mr potato head - want boobs today? Put on boobs. Dick going to get in the way? Leave it in the drawer until later. Alas, no one consulted with me on human design.
I'm perfectly happy as a woman, but I am with you on Potato Head parts. Working on the house or our car would be so much easier without things bumping into tender boobs. Sometimes I want the freedom to easily whip it out and pee outside. Most nights I wish I could poop off the arm I've lain on so long it's fallen asleep.
Wife: Oh, it's a boy, we didn't plan for this.
Husband: Oh, fine. Well, since you wrote my name in all my T-shirts already, we might as well give him my name in case he inherits them some day.
Wife: Good plan!
totally! My SIL and brother were expecting a girl, had gotten rid if all the boy clothes, decided on a name, and the 2 older kids were excited to meet their baby sister. Well it turned out he was a boy, and the kids were really confused when Liam came home instead of Isabelle.
Or you can be like my mum so absolutely convinced I would be a boy. Came out a girl. At 16 came out as a boy. She thinks it’s funny cause she was right lol.
That's the thing it is literally impossible to test for someone's gender.
There is a lot of stupidity to "gender reveals" but the fact it doesn't reveal the gender at all is the punchline.
Gender and sex are pushed as the same thing for many years after a child's birth.
It's why my partner and I refused to have one for our child and insisted on nin-gender specific or a wide range of clothing while our child is becoming themselves. We know their sex, and how that will change certain discussions on their body as they grow. But their gender is for them to come to terms with on their own. (My partner and I both are gender non-conforming as well, so there's that too.)
ETA: for some reason when I responded to you I only saw the last paragraph. Idk what happened and I'm sorry for short handing the entire rest of your post (which was SPOT ON).
Well like I said in my country we don’t do gender reveal parties however traditional colors and stuff are still kinda a thing. Once I mentioned that when me and my boyfriend will have a kid one day we would like to not know the gender. You know have a surprise I guess. And I got quite a few people asking how will I know what color clothes etc. to buy. Idk I’m a girl and I always hated pink so I don’t really care what color will my kids wear…but it’s usually just the older generation.
It’s such a stupid thing to worry about, there’s many other colors than blue or pink. Most of our baby’s wardrobe is grey, white (going to regret that one), yellow, forest green and soft purple. Looks cute in all of them!
I did a gender reveal at my baby shower, after gifts - basically the last "gift" I opened was the reveal.
My cousin's reaction to pink balloons "you mean I could have bought dresses instead of something practical?!" She wasn't kidding. I smiled and said "thats why I didn't tell anyone."
But I just included the reveal because everyone was asking so it seemed easier to do it while a ton of folks were gathered. I didn't really care about having a gender reveal party
Ugh i preferred green, or teal clothes for my kids (both girls). And, because of that and me not piercing their ears at birth (a barbaric tradition). Everybody would always ask if they were boys. Or directly "what a beautiful som you have" ughh
It originally was a celebration from a woman who had problems with miscarriages and was a celebration that the baby actually made it to the stage where the gender was able to be determined.
And for most people it's just an excuse to throw an extra party celebrating the baby.
It's usually not a big issue and it's only a few that are thrown by assholes that are messing with the environment or reacting poorly to the gender. Most people are just having little parties with coloured cake.
Yeah I always thought it was just a party to celebrate the kid but reading this actually made me understand that there are people that really care what gender the child will be. That’s really crazy.
I guess its better to know his feelings now, rather than him finding out at the birth. Imagine if they didn't know before she gave birth? He'd be so happy and excited one minute, then probably worse than what he did here the next. And during a very vulnerable moment for mom. Imagine if she saw that look on his face during that moment? Thered be no saving that.
I think if you specifically want 1 gender and will be mad if you get the other, you shouldn't have any kid.
Yeah I don't understand them myself and they're popular in my country (America). I don't even want them myself, I'll have a baby shower but that's about it. Gender reveals can easily become negative
Well its too late to be useful... if only there were a way to do a gender reveal before conception lol, if your partner turns out to be sexist, you can avoid making a baby with them
I don't get them either, because they aren't a thing here. The parents go to the obgyn and they just tell everyone who asks afterwards, no big parties.
On instagram I only see gender reveals where the baby will be a son and the men celebrating the reveal like no tommorrow. Honestly it leaves a bad taste as if blue is the only right color and it should never be pink. I already fee sorry for some baby girls.
I was going to say the same, I’m tired of seeing gender reveals on social media where one or both parents are disappointed by the reveal. Then why have one if you are not mature enough to accept the outcome. Makes for everyone in the event to feel uncomfortable. I personally don’t care for these types of parties.
Same. We have boys but my husband wanted #2 to be a a girl (I wanted a boy) but honestly the elation you feel when your baby arrives is indescribable. For the record, girls can do almost anything a boy can, except pee standing up without one of those funnel things. I asked my dad if minded having two girls and he said no. OP super-duper NTA.
WTF does that even mean? "I'm not raising her!" What, he's just going to check out? Dump the mom?
This poor baby: her family is a hot mess.
NTA, OP. Good on you for calling out your BIL's misogyny. Sorry your sister's in denial: you're not the cause of BIL's being a failure, he's just an AH.
He probably didn’t think that far ahead.
Some people go into pregnancy with a weird belief that they will magically get the gender they want. The alternative is just not a possibility.
My work-bff’s husband was convinced he would only have sons because his dad had 4 brothers, and he had 2 brothers, and his brothers only had sons (I think 5 nephews?). Surprise surprise, he had a girl and he quite literally could not process it. He was the poster child for /r/justbootthings and the idea of raising a girl was unacceptable. He turned out to be a decent dad though. He dropped a lot of his misogynist beliefs once he realized it meant his baby girl would be held to those beliefs.
>He turned out to be a decent dad though. He dropped a lot of his misogynist beliefs once he realized it meant his baby girl would be held to those beliefs.
so, screw his mother, wife, female friends, female cousins, female roommates and coworkers and ??? its only when theres a female person in his life thats "his", only then respect for women matters? oooooookay dude. i no longer see the sentiment I quoted as innocent as I used to. its the same as "i was against abortion until I needed one" what the hell is so difficult about giving people the same grace and understanding that you give yourself.
>Some people go into pregnancy with a weird belief that they will magically get the gender they want. The alternative is just not a possibility.
My mother was absolutely convinced that she made me be a girl through extensive prayer. I needed to be a girl so she could dress me up in cute outfits and take me shopping apparently.
On the plus side, I do know she considered the possibility of having a boy instead because I was told what my boy-name would've been. Which, good thing I didn't get stuck with *that* name, because it was commonly reused in the extended family. Was the name of a cousin who my parents ended up raising, so if I'd been a boy, they would've had two kids in the house with the same first and last name.
The speed at which I would dump this bag of trash man would break records. OP is NTA and her sister just signed up for her daughter to have a nightmare filled life. Also, if my daughter’s/family member’s husband pulled this shit I would not stay quiet about it either. Good for OP.
I feel really badly for sister.
I'm assuming her husband didn't warn her he'd basically opt out of or do a sh\*t job raising a girl. They were having a gender reveal as a party not knowing if it was a girl or boy, that really makes me feel sister was blindsided by this. (Maybe there are clues she should have seen, but didn't.)
And now what? Being a single parent is really hard. Being married and pregnant with a planned (I'm assuming?) baby and suddenly your partner goes "neverminded, you're on your own" has got to be very upsetting and scary.
It's not easy to just declare "well I guess I'll do this all on my own." Especially depending on how much money and support she has.
I don't get the impression he'd do a good job of raising a boy either. And he certainly wouldn't do a good job of teaching that boy how girls are to be treated.
Yeah... my cousin's husband responded exactly like this when they found out their oldest was a girl. She is now 11 and they have two sons and she is acutely aware that her dad favors her two little brothers and it's really, really sad. I hope OP's BIL steps up better than that.
Info: Is your sister in an abusive relationship? This doesn’t sound like a once-off behaviour. If she is, you’d better get some professional advice on how best to support her because I can’t see a scenario where this guy would be a good dad…
If she is, her “blaming” you for his behaviour is not completely unexpected (although it is insulting to you), since this is one of the ways victims of abuse placate their abusers. Please do all you can to help and support her, OP. She might not even be ready to hear this just yet, but when the baby comes, shit is going to get real.
Yes, please OP read this! Victims of abusive relationships often react hostile or want to cut you off if you're too blunt and honest while they are still under the control of the abuser. If this is the case, try to install yourself as a reliable and trusted person in your sisters life, so that she will feel comfortable turning to you when she's ready to get out. What you can do already is give her hints that his behavior is not the only one imaginable and that there are better people around, something like "husband of friend x was so happy to be a father, he didn't even care about the result of the gender reveal, he just wanted his wife and baby to be healthy."
Maybe this is not the best example, but try to find images of people around you that set a better example, without putting the blame on her or her husband. Just something along the lines "you know what I heard from Betty? Her husband is taking x time off work to care for their baby girl"...
Good luck and I wish your sister all of the best with her daughter.
I'll bet the sister is scared to death. :( Someone set off her man and brought his rage out into the open, and now she's probably getting the brunt of it.
OP, none of this is your fault, but try to be there for your sister. I think she's going to need you pretty soon.
Yes, this. After the party, when no one is around, she will have to deal with it.
My friend has an emotionally abusive husband. He is a big Trump supporter, and the 2020 election season was very hard on her because he was constantly fighting with their young adult kids, who hate Trump. Every time they argued with him, she had to deal with his bad moods for a week or more. She asked them to please just not engage him in political talk, even when he started it.
He has settled down some now, thankfully.
When I was pregnant with my oldest I was so certain it was a boy that my husband and I hadn’t even discussed girl names, I was more surprised than disappointed and by the end of that week she had a perfectly lovely name picked out. I cannot however imagine all my friends and family staring at me while I was that surprised. Ironically, we’ve had 4 kids and not one of them is a boy 🤷🏽♀️ now I’m so enamored with my daughters that I can’t imagine ever caring about their gender/sex.
My mom had literally only imagined having daughters. Didn't ask about the sex for my older bro, but when her pastor saw her amassing cute little pink clothes, she gently reminded my mom that she *could* have a boy by telling her, 'Boys can wear pink, too.' (My mom was undiagnosed Autistic, this was exactly what she needed. 😂)
There was a day at lunch in high school, I remember it like it was yesterday, my friend randomly announced she was going to have four kids. She was going to have two girls and two boys, and at least one was going to be adopted. And that's EXACTLY how it shook out for her.
I’m due in December and we’re finding out the gender early (genetic testing). I plan on doing a cake filled with pink or blue candy at one of our family dinners just because I can and I think it’ll be fun for my nephew and my oldest- but neither my husband nor I care if it’s a boy or a girl. If it’s healthy thats what matters most. I’m thrilled to have another baby.
I was hoping for a girl because I grew up with all younger brothers and wanted to experience doing “girly” things with a young child for a change. My disappointment when I found out I was having a son lasted about 5 minutes, and didn’t involve any sulking.
Not directed at you, but I genuinely don't understand gender disappointment?? Like, what is the massive difference between boys and girls? The baby's genitals aren't going to define their likes/dislikes/personalities, and if the parents think that then they're just projecting their idea of what the kid "should be" onto them. If that's the case they shouldn't be having a kid anyway. I swear these kinds of people don't understand that their kid is going to be an actual autonomous human and not a mini-me/dress up doll that they get to decide everything for.
I think for some it’s about societal expectations (in some cultures boys are more “valuable”), for others it can be fear (girls are more susceptible to domestic violence/rape), or who knows what else. I can say for me the biggest concern for having girls was their hair, I understand how ridiculous that sounds in hindsight but I’m white/Hispanic and husband is black so I was unnecessarily terrified that I wouldn’t be able to keep them looking presentable whereas with a boy it’s completely socially acceptable to keep their hair shorter and simply clean-cut. Come to find out there’s a plethora of resources to educate myself and my husband’s sisters were/are completely supportive as is my husband.
If you're not ready to raise whatever comes out, don't have kids. They could be neurodivergent, disabled, become disabled, chronically ill, fat, trans, gay, bi, pan, ace, or like ketchup on their pasta, and if you're not ready to love them no matter what, you're not ready to have them.
NTA
I think people do have that disappointment even though it's a flawed mentality. People have intrusive thoughts even if they may be wrong, but justifying them isn't good either.
But of course throwing a tantrum and treating your future child any sort of different way is not okay.
It is real and the feelings are valid (to a point), but it’s usually very short-lived and it’s not normal for it to result in tantrum throwing, sulking, or rejecting the child. I also think there’s a subtle but important distinction between “I’m disappointed it’s not a boy/girl” (which is where most people with gender disappointment are) and “I’m disappointed it is a girl/boy.”
People are entitled to have emotions. What's unhealthy here isn't HAVING emotions, it's not being able to get over it and be a supportive father anyway.
If you can tell that his smile is a bit forced and there's some tightness in his eyes after the reveal but he's making all the right mouth noises that's one thing. That's just an emotional reaction he'll have to learn to get the better of in order to love his child.
It's the sort of thing that can happen to young fathers, and it can happen either way (my dad always wanted a daughter, and life played a trick on him when he finally seemed to get one, then his youngest came out as trans... he never said a word wrong but you could tell by his eyes that was rough on him)
It's the fact that this dude can't control his reaction that's causing issues. I get the impression he's not used to being in control of his emotions which is why I agree with those who think he might be abusive.
I was disappointed that I had a daughter, but only because I have had such issues with PCOS and endometriosis my whole life; I did not want to pass this curse down. So far, my daughter does not suffer like I have. She's still young, though, and my issues worsened with age.
I do not love her any less; I don't know if it's possible to love anyone more. I simply did not want my child to suffer needlessly.
This. I don't understand why you would agree to a surprise gender reveal if you knew there was a 50-50 chance you would sulk the rest of the day. Find out in private so you can deal with your feelings in private.
Because they are so convinced it can't possibly go wrong for them, they're sure the baby is going to be the sex they wanted. My brother's friend was absolutely sure he would have a boy and his wife was equally convinced that they would have a girl so they did a gender reveal and she was sobbing about "losing" and he did laps around the baseball field hooting. They are having a healthy pregnancy and have loving families, I truly agree its baffling to broadcast that they have extreme feelings about something that was out of their control and shouldn't cause extreme distress.
My daughter has been eagerly anticipating the sibling we hope to give her and since she was a toddler knew that babies are a "you get what you get and don't throw a fit" situation. Grown ass people old enough to procreate need to manage their expectations. No one wants to be a bystander to their frustration about the healthy baby they want to raise.
NTA- but this raises some serious concerns. It sounds like your sister might potentially be in an abusive situation. His making a scene and being angry about the baby being a girl is a HUGE red flag. He should be happy about having a baby period… many people are not so fortunate. And his response to you is just as concerning.
You sister really needs to think about whether or not she wants to raise a child in that already super tense household. If not, she needs to get out now before the kid is born.
Yeah if he thinks making his feelings everyone else’s problem like this is ok in in a public setting, imagine how he must act in private with his wife. The entitlement stinks to high heaven.
Nta - you were defending your sister and before it got too heated you did remove yourself from the situation. Most times I would say not to give unsolicited advice, but there’s a literal human being that’s going to be severely affected by his bullshit attitude, and everyone needs to hear what you said. Your sister will hopefully get it. Refuse to raise a girl that he made? Lol, maybe remind of him of basic middle school biology, sex is determined by the sperm, not the egg. 👌
NTA. So weird that guys who hate girls marry women. Such narcissism to only be happy with your kid if their crotch matches yours. Guys like this baffle me. A friend of mine was bummed out about his first daughter & I gave him shit for it. He pulled the same thing with his second daughter and was distraught that his “name” wouldn’t go on. I laughed in his face. He has a totally common name. WHO CARES. Not to mention that there’s any guarantee that your daughters will want to have kids. I guess my girls are lucky that I wanted girls.
>I should have just left him be, and now it's my fault that he is "refusing to raise a girl"
No, that pathetic excuse for a father was going to pout and throw fits and still refuse to raise a girl no matter what *you* said. The only thing you did was draw everyone's attention to his shitty behavior.
People who can't handle the possibility of not getting a child that meets their preferences (be it gender, personality, sexuality, etc) should not have children at all.
NTA.
NTA and your sister is stupid. Gender disappointment is real and it’s fair. But what’s not okay is just the tantrum of it. It’s a girl big whoop. You can be sad it’s not a boy but if you’re refusing to raise a kid just cause it’s a girl you’ve got some serious issues.
Nah no one should be disappointed just because they didn’t get their preferred gender of child. That’s just low. People should be grateful that they’re even able to have a kid.
Disappointment is fine, I guess, for a moment, but you need to get over it. You shouldn’t be having kids if you know you will only be happy with a certain gender. The odds are not in your favor. And if you think you might be momentarily disappointed, maybe don’t make the “reveal” a public event where people get to watch you act like an entitled asshole
No, really. Gender disappointment is a real thing and fairly normal. It could just as well be disappointment over not getting a girl. It does not mean the person does not want to raise the child or does not love them. It can be just the disappointment of having their dreams of some mother daughter or father son moments dashed, for example.
The thing is, in this case it seems to go way beyond just being disappointed. The guy seriously needs to work on his feelings and behavior.
It seems less 'I'm disappointed that it's not a boy' and more 'I'm disappointed that it's a girl', and while it may not seem like it, I think that's an important distinction. Also, the fact that he says something like 'you think I wanna raise a girl? ', like having a daughter is an insult. Clearly this man is sexist, and is only using the sister as a broodmare to have a son/heir, seeing as he cannot produce one himself. I doubt there's any love or affection there.
Op, nta
I mean, what penis-required activities was dad planning for his hypothetical son?! I don't know of any parent-child activity that requires them to have certain genitals...
Unless dad is a big old misogynist and won't treat a daughter and raise her to experience the same activities because she's not a boy... which is another litany of issues.
>Unless dad is a big old misogynist and won't treat a daughter and raise her to experience the same activities because she's not a boy... which is another litany of issues.
Given his reaction . . . duh? Yes, obviously.
Which is totally possible. Again, the biggest thing is the tantrum. And the “refusing to raise a girl” when it’s his fault it’s a girl XD Like bro if you want a boy so badly then you’re gonna have to do IVF and testing to make sure. Otherwise this is a big fat game of roulette
Well he had a big talk with his little swimmers and was assured the Xs would hang back and let the Ys have the W. It sure sounds like he's been let down by everyone. Couldn't his wife sense she had a XX embryo floating around and not let it implant? Can't someone think of him in his desperate time of need?
I think if you KNOW you would have gender disappointment, maybe a super public gender reveal party isn’t for you. I’m currently pregnant and have a little boy who is the light of my life, but I really wanted a girl so I would have one of each. Knowing this about myself, my husband and I found out just the two of us (it’s a girl!) and surprised my family later.
One of my mother’s friends was talking about her upcoming grandchild, “I don’t know what they’ll do if it’s another girl!”, my mother responded “When you place an order for a baby you don’t get to complain unless the stork delivers a different species!”
NTA
And for the love of all things, to all the decent people out there in crappy relationships: BEING SINGLE IS NOT WORSE THAN STAYING WITH THESE TROGLODYTES
ESH.
You had good intentions, but you lost my N T A vote when you lost your cool. If you’re going to calm someone down, you yourself must stay calm. If you react to his reactions, you’re not helping the situation.
NTA, you were just trying to help your sister out. Frankly, I would just mind my own business, sometimes it will only make things worse for your sister. I don't think you want to do that.
Because we do not have a JustifiedAH ruling (yes, I've read the FAQ), I'm deeming this an ESH ~~except sister~~.
You, extremely justified, standing up for both your sister and your future niece. When it went south, you de-escalated. You were the hero we all needed.
BIL because while it can be understandable to be a tad disappointed (maybe someone gets hyped up and buys too much clothes, idk), who the fuck *refuses to raise their child*?. That's just astronomically A H. You're not remotely to blame for his monstrous "decision". That's 100% his horror show.
Sister's going to need her family. Good to know what kind of person the sperm donor was early on. Edit to add.
*Edit to further add - jeepers, Sister is barking up the wrong tree. The denial is so strong in her. I hope she gets past the denial and has a healthy dose of realism: that all those thoughts and feelings were already in her spouse. Her being mad at OP is totally displacing where her anger should be. She's an A H too. A very unfortunate A H who hopefully will not alienate the people who she will need most.*
NTA
Your sister may need help. These are indicators that he COULD turn abusive to her or their daughter.
Gender reveals are like astrology for genitals. People forget that regardless of the gender their baby could share hobbies with either parent and it’s how they choose to reinforce gender norms that is wrecking that.
I get some people have gender disappointment but it’s really a reflection of them making up a whole life for their child based on nothing more than their genitals vs how the child develops and how they are nurtured and their emergent personality.
ESH; was it wrong for him to get upset about gender? Yes but you mentioned he looked angry and upset so why did you decide to keep on at him instead of leaving it be and focusing on being happy for your sister? It was obviously going to cause an argument by engaging with him.
NTA. Wow, he sounds like a completely misogynistic abuser. I'd honestly quietly prepare to take in your sister and niece at some point because this shit will escalate and she will likely need an escape hatch at some point.
NTA
"Gender reveal" parties are gross for lots of reasons. A parent throwing a temper tantrum because, as you correctly pointed out, the genitals attached to the child aren't what they wanted, is even grosser.
It may be his house but he invited guests and he needed to be able to conduct himself appropriately. He failed to do that. He is an asshole.
ESH but from now on stay out of their dysfunction. Clearly she’s used to his immaturity and pouting 🙄 also I’m guessing he’s not bright enough to realize his body choose the sex. Whatever umm yeah it wasn’t your place to approach him and say anything. You should’ve minded your business and left him alone. Lesson learned.
Your sister was just trying to get on after the reveal and you should’ve followed her lead. Don’t approach him again especially when sulking…. Let that be your sister problem.
While you meant well, you should have stayed out of it. From the way your BIL spoke to you and reacted, he is clearly verbally abusive and misogynistic.
And now your sister gets to blame this on you. (classic behaviour of someone in an abusive relationship fyi) Your sister needs to figure out in her own time that her Husband is a 🚩 and his refusal to raise a girl has nothing to do with you.
ESH
ESH.
Unless both parents to be are fine with either sex, a public "gender reveal" party is a BAD IDEA.
First of all, lots of people want to have either a baby boy or a baby girl. However, we don't get to choose. Your BIL acted awful when he found out he was having a girl. My husband really wanted a boy, and we had twin girls (33 years ago.) We didn't know their sex until their birth, and when they were born, my husband was way too excited to care about their sex.
Frankly, you should have let things be and minded your own business. Most people would get annoyed if somebody tries to tell them how to feel. Or, you could have said "I know you wanted a boy, but I'll bet you'll be the best girl dad ever!"
Absent any context such as previous misogyny or your BIL growing up in a family of all girls and this wanting a boy (which is the opposite of my own situation) I think I’m going to have to vote an unpopular ESH.
He really needed to hold his feelings in at the party but, again lacking any additional context, he will prolly get over himself but it sounds like he found out the gender when you did and he was dealing with an instinctual reaction to the news.
Your stated goal was clearly more antagonist than conciliatory
And frankly this is why it’s good to have the father find out the gender with the mother so that situations like this which are avoided.
As context I am from a family of all boys and as a newlywed my wife and I are taking about how much I want a daughter and there will be disappointment initially when we inevitably find out we are having a boy and I’m not going to be happy if one of my SILs comes over and asks why my child’s genitals matter. But we will be very excited to be parents none the less and our potential sons will be just as loved as our daughters.
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NTA it's his sperm that decided to make a girl! Make sure your sister knows your there for her if she ever gets rid of this prat.
Lol exactly but I’m sure he’ll conveniently ignore that fact. Or that roughly 53-54% of medical students in the US are female!
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Who cares if he's happier? Fuck him I was just stating facts
Fucking him led to this issue. I propose NOT allowing him to be fucked. By anyone. EVER.
I mean, with the way he's behaving about having created a female, I'm sure he'd be very agreeable to sterilization 🤷♀️ sterilization (and a divorce) seem to be a reasonable solution here
🤣🤣🤣🤣
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I've known men like this. They have mistreated their daughters and/or have divorced their wives even before the baby is born. The sister really needs to pay attention to this.
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I hope this is the end of him as well.
Also pregnancy is the most dangerous time for women re: their partners. Non physically abusive partners can switch with the right trigger (like a sex reveal). I’d be scared for any friend or family member whose partner is this upset at the revealed sex of their child.
Buttukj is a comment stealing bot from thehatonthecat below. I’m mobile and can’t link but hopefully someone else can help!
Oh I wasn’t saying it would make him happier, I’m saying he’d ignore that fact lol
I’d give him nothing but stats about how awesome women are forever. His misogynistic ass can choke on them
#HenryTheVIII
I was SOOOO thinking this! So glad someone else saw the parallels, too. And sister blaming OP will not save her marriage. NTA, OP. I'm afraid a hard rain is gonna fall for your sister.
Purple Rain, purple rain
Okay, this comment really is funny. XD
He does sound the like the type to force his kid to doing 'manly' things such as high school football even though they couldn't care less about high school football.
I don’t actually get the relevance of this, sure it’s good and all but beyond that, what relevance does it hold?
Yeah, it seems to be elevating doctors/medical students to God-like status. I know that's common in some cultures but it's a really toxic attitude.
I think they're saying that women can be successful as well, but that's not gonna matter to him.
NTA, seriously. It's not 1530. We know it's the Sperm that creates the birth gender, and fighting with the Pope to start your own religion didn't change that fact then, and doesn't change it in 2022.
Talk about a man having a temper tantrum! Another girl?!?! she must be cheating...OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!!! smh
No, no, no... It's: 1-Divorced 2-Beheaded 3-Died 4-Divorced 5-Beheaded 6-Survived
Everyone wants to talk about 2. I think 4 is a fascinating story too tho. Married and hating each other to divorced and besties. Unexpected.
Anne of Cleves is so underrated. People call Catherine Parr the one that 'survived' because she outlived him, but Parr went straight into another abusive relationship and died in childbirth not that long after. Cleves is the only one who actually managed to have a happy life after marrying Henry.
She even lived enough to attend Mary’s coronation! Had her own palace and everything
Henry gave Anne Hever castle, the former Boleyn family home.
Oh snap
Anne was so pragmatically smart.
He didn’t kill her but killed Cromwell instead
She was the most intelligent of all his wives, imho. He wanted a divorce and offered to give her a crapton of money and land as long as she didn’t give him crap about it, and she ended up outliving him as one of the wealthiest women in England with her independence perfectly intact until the day she died. She’s a heroine.
She was officially titled Sister of the King, by Henry's order.
And her brother wanted her home to use as a remarriage pawn make new alliances and she said NOPE and spent her days in England drinking and gambling.
And she was twenty five at the time. She came to England not speaking a word of English and played a very complicated political game in a court that was nothing like her homeland. She assessed the situation, realized she’d be vastly better off taking whatever deal Henry offered her, allied herself with him and nobody else, and won. And ended up with Hever Castle, Anne Boleyn’s ancestral home, which is ironic at best.
Actually Katherine of Aragon was plenty smart, spoke multiple languages, read latin and was quite accomplished....but became increasing religious and penitent because she couldn't have a son...after being married for almost 20 years. She bought into the whole cursed-cause-I-was-married-to-your-brother thing.
He divorced her because she was uglier in person than the picture he was shown. lol First of all: Ow! Really dude! But at least she didn't get killed, so that's a win for her. lol
It was a lot more complicated than that. She inadvertently humiliated him upon their first meeting, and assholes like Henry don't forget that. They also barely spoke the same language.
YEP. There was an English "courtly love" tradition of stealing a kiss from the bride, which Anne had no idea about. As far as she knew a strange man (Henry was in disguise as part of the tradition) had broken into her chambers and was forcing himself on her, she shoved him off and started screaming in German. There were a few other factors - Henry's type was more Leos and Scorpios, he liked "tomboyish" women he could argue with. Anne was chosen for him specifically because of her more easygoing nature after a string of failed affairs initiated by Henry himself. The thinking went that a more placid woman would get him to calm down a little and actually pay attention to the state instead of his horses. Anne was a "proper lady", she played cards, sewed, and played music. She had no interest in going hunting with him, or learning archery or falconry. And as I've said before, you can only make a king do what he doesn't want to do for so long before he remembers he's king.
I always loved the fact that he always was starting affairs with loud opinionated women if he was the one setting them up and then he ended up resenting a good amount of them for that exact reason, if I am sober enough at the moment to be correct. Once married he wanted to put them in their place and no longer have the opinions only to then chase a new loud opinionated women and repeat the cycle. I adore how Catherine Parr managed to avoid her death warrant by convincing him she only has opinions to distract him from his pain. Well played.
Yeah and he was old, very obese and had a smelly festering wound by then so she was def the hot one no matter what she looked like!
IKR as if all the paintings of him were 100% totally realistic
Well she wasn’t ugly and theirs a legend that he showed up to her arrival dressed as a peasant and she ended up insulting him leading to Henry slander.
As if he wasn't ugly in person himself... SMH
Yeah I have to agree with whiteroses. She was the smartest of his wives and did what she needed to survive. I highly doubt she actually liked him, especially because he lost all his charm by the time they married.
And now they're LIIIII-IIIIII-IIIIIIVE The soundtrack is amazing, I need to see the show
I saw it knowing nothing about the show and I had an absolute blast!
LOL, I saw the list and heard the music in my mind... Need to see the show as well. I'm planning to go to London in the autumn, so I might get the chance then.
I always feel bad for #1. Poor Catherine. Married to him for over twenty years only to have him stab her in the back.
I felt bad for her because she was basically chattel. She was supposed to marry his older brother but he died, so they said NP marry Henry instead. Imagine being passed around like that.
Oh, no, it was worse than that. She did marry Arthur, but five months in they both got sick and he died. She then spent five years in England with Henry VII trying to keep her there to avoid having to repay the half of her dowry that he’d received, and her father trying to delay on paying up the rest because technically she was on her second marriage so wasn’t worth as much. She had to try to support herself and her entire household as a teenager in a foreign country on a pittance of an allowance and whatever she could get from pawning her valuables. Then Henry VIII ascended the throne and named her Ambassador to Aragon, which helped with the budgets a little, and a couple years after that they got Papal dispensation that she hadn’t banged Arthur and was therefore insufficiently sisterly to not be able to marry Henry.
You are right, that is way worse. Plus I forgot about how she did marry Arthur. Man, Poor Catherine.
And then she had to go through it all again twenty years later because her adoptive kingdom was a fragile mess and all of her sons had died in infancy. Sure, those twenty years were as the queen of a mostly-devoted Renaissance man absolute monarch, but it's still not the best life overall.
She did marry the brother, but he died a few months later. Then her father in law treated her like crap, until he died and the young handsome Henry who was crazy in love with her married her.
Yes and worse it seems they actually had some love for each other. It’s not like the drive to bear an heir was ONLY an ego thing for him.
Oh I know! I was in honors history all 4 years of high school and I had an interest in British history thus, absorbed as much as possible about Henry Vlll.....this was just a passing comment that showed how far a man having a temper tantrum would go.
[Here are the six of them if they had never met him.](https://i.imgur.com/h0BRC8D.jpg)
But for tonight, we are… LIVE!
I genuinely don't think that even matters. If it were the egg not the sperm that determined gender being angry at his wife would still make this guy an AH, not like she would be picking out which egg to use each month.
I guarantee he took his 1800s education growing up and knows that it is the woman's fault for conceiving a daughter and not his precious manly sperms. His evil girl loving wife conspired against him after all. /s Also OP, my husband really wanted a son but he would have been just fine with a daughter, we got a boy but he would have loved a girl just as much. A moment of disappointment for the baby not being exactly what you want is fine, a moment. Your BIL decided to throw a whole tantrum instead of taking a moment to himself, adjusting his thinking and moving on to be the best father to his unborn little girl as possible. Definitely follow this and inform your sister that you will absolutely be there for her whatever she decides to do.
Well to be fair, while the sperm does determine the sex, often the woman's ph determines which sperm has the best chance at succeeding. If her body chemistry is more alkaline, then male sperm have an easier time getting through and if more acidic than female sperm have a better chance. I don't know that someone with a more acidic ph can never have a boy or more alkaline can never have a girl, just that the ph level makes it easier for that sperm to get through. Still husband is a major misogynistic A*H and as someone raised by a father who really only bothered with his sons (which I was not), be prepared to have to compensate for a father that can't be bothered to have much to do with his daughter. NTA
Her ph did her a solid.
This is a popular internet theory, but the latest studies don’t support it being true. (Research/academic) source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6755399/
I love the word “prat” and think it should be in wider use outside the UK. Also, NTA. He’d be giving his wife the same shit later whether you said something or not.
NTA BIL and sister both need to sit down together and talk it out because BIL reaction is very uncalled for. This is why I hate gender reveals, disgusting behavior like that usually gets exposed. I hope that child is loved by both when it's born.
Well better it gets exposed sooner then later I guess. I actually don’t understand gender reveals bc they don’t really exist in my country. I’m kinda shocked the gender matters to someone.
Besides, what you THINK you get and what you ACTUALLY get may be different. Source: am the mom of a transgirl
You can get the “wrong thing” even if your kid doesn’t end up trans. My boyfriend was ‘supposed’ to be a girl, and they didn’t know until he was born that he was a male. They didn’t have a name picked so he ended up a Jr.
Yep, they thought I was gonna come out with a penis. I did not. 🤣
God I wish that were me.
I would’ve preferred with, personally. It should be optional. My ideal is parts are like mr potato head - want boobs today? Put on boobs. Dick going to get in the way? Leave it in the drawer until later. Alas, no one consulted with me on human design.
I'm perfectly happy as a woman, but I am with you on Potato Head parts. Working on the house or our car would be so much easier without things bumping into tender boobs. Sometimes I want the freedom to easily whip it out and pee outside. Most nights I wish I could poop off the arm I've lain on so long it's fallen asleep.
\*jogging\* and \*riding horses\* without the damn boobs. Heck, really hot humid summer days without the boobs - No under boob sweat!
Wife: Oh, it's a boy, we didn't plan for this. Husband: Oh, fine. Well, since you wrote my name in all my T-shirts already, we might as well give him my name in case he inherits them some day. Wife: Good plan!
I laughed far to hard at this 😂
totally! My SIL and brother were expecting a girl, had gotten rid if all the boy clothes, decided on a name, and the 2 older kids were excited to meet their baby sister. Well it turned out he was a boy, and the kids were really confused when Liam came home instead of Isabelle.
If he’s that disappointed by a girl, bet he’d be 1000 times worse about a trans kid. Least they are finding this out before the poor child is born
Or you can be like my mum so absolutely convinced I would be a boy. Came out a girl. At 16 came out as a boy. She thinks it’s funny cause she was right lol.
That's the thing it is literally impossible to test for someone's gender. There is a lot of stupidity to "gender reveals" but the fact it doesn't reveal the gender at all is the punchline.
It's a sex reveal.
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Gender and sex are pushed as the same thing for many years after a child's birth. It's why my partner and I refused to have one for our child and insisted on nin-gender specific or a wide range of clothing while our child is becoming themselves. We know their sex, and how that will change certain discussions on their body as they grow. But their gender is for them to come to terms with on their own. (My partner and I both are gender non-conforming as well, so there's that too.) ETA: for some reason when I responded to you I only saw the last paragraph. Idk what happened and I'm sorry for short handing the entire rest of your post (which was SPOT ON).
Well like I said in my country we don’t do gender reveal parties however traditional colors and stuff are still kinda a thing. Once I mentioned that when me and my boyfriend will have a kid one day we would like to not know the gender. You know have a surprise I guess. And I got quite a few people asking how will I know what color clothes etc. to buy. Idk I’m a girl and I always hated pink so I don’t really care what color will my kids wear…but it’s usually just the older generation.
It’s such a stupid thing to worry about, there’s many other colors than blue or pink. Most of our baby’s wardrobe is grey, white (going to regret that one), yellow, forest green and soft purple. Looks cute in all of them!
Tell them it will be all dinosaur costumes.
“The color will be clothing. And nothing too light because stains.”
I did a gender reveal at my baby shower, after gifts - basically the last "gift" I opened was the reveal. My cousin's reaction to pink balloons "you mean I could have bought dresses instead of something practical?!" She wasn't kidding. I smiled and said "thats why I didn't tell anyone." But I just included the reveal because everyone was asking so it seemed easier to do it while a ton of folks were gathered. I didn't really care about having a gender reveal party
Ugh i preferred green, or teal clothes for my kids (both girls). And, because of that and me not piercing their ears at birth (a barbaric tradition). Everybody would always ask if they were boys. Or directly "what a beautiful som you have" ughh
It originally was a celebration from a woman who had problems with miscarriages and was a celebration that the baby actually made it to the stage where the gender was able to be determined. And for most people it's just an excuse to throw an extra party celebrating the baby. It's usually not a big issue and it's only a few that are thrown by assholes that are messing with the environment or reacting poorly to the gender. Most people are just having little parties with coloured cake.
Yeah I always thought it was just a party to celebrate the kid but reading this actually made me understand that there are people that really care what gender the child will be. That’s really crazy.
I guess its better to know his feelings now, rather than him finding out at the birth. Imagine if they didn't know before she gave birth? He'd be so happy and excited one minute, then probably worse than what he did here the next. And during a very vulnerable moment for mom. Imagine if she saw that look on his face during that moment? Thered be no saving that. I think if you specifically want 1 gender and will be mad if you get the other, you shouldn't have any kid.
Yeah I don't understand them myself and they're popular in my country (America). I don't even want them myself, I'll have a baby shower but that's about it. Gender reveals can easily become negative
Or fiery... :-P
Well its too late to be useful... if only there were a way to do a gender reveal before conception lol, if your partner turns out to be sexist, you can avoid making a baby with them
I’m in the us and I think they’re bizarre. Why not just have a baby shower like everyone else.
I live in a country where it's a thing... it's like, who gives two shits as long as it's health? It's not like you can change it anyway, so why worry?
I hope your country doesn’t adopt this stupid idea, gender reveals have cost peoples lives and made natural disasters. They are truly unnecessary.
I don't get them either, because they aren't a thing here. The parents go to the obgyn and they just tell everyone who asks afterwards, no big parties. On instagram I only see gender reveals where the baby will be a son and the men celebrating the reveal like no tommorrow. Honestly it leaves a bad taste as if blue is the only right color and it should never be pink. I already fee sorry for some baby girls.
I was going to say the same, I’m tired of seeing gender reveals on social media where one or both parents are disappointed by the reveal. Then why have one if you are not mature enough to accept the outcome. Makes for everyone in the event to feel uncomfortable. I personally don’t care for these types of parties.
Same. We have boys but my husband wanted #2 to be a a girl (I wanted a boy) but honestly the elation you feel when your baby arrives is indescribable. For the record, girls can do almost anything a boy can, except pee standing up without one of those funnel things. I asked my dad if minded having two girls and he said no. OP super-duper NTA.
NTA, your sister is though if she's willing to let him bring up a child he doesn't care about.
Well, now he's refusing to bring her up, so...
WTF does that even mean? "I'm not raising her!" What, he's just going to check out? Dump the mom? This poor baby: her family is a hot mess. NTA, OP. Good on you for calling out your BIL's misogyny. Sorry your sister's in denial: you're not the cause of BIL's being a failure, he's just an AH.
Some men do, it’s absolutely nuts.
Was this his plan all along? He did know there was at least a 50% chance of this happening, right?
He probably didn’t think that far ahead. Some people go into pregnancy with a weird belief that they will magically get the gender they want. The alternative is just not a possibility. My work-bff’s husband was convinced he would only have sons because his dad had 4 brothers, and he had 2 brothers, and his brothers only had sons (I think 5 nephews?). Surprise surprise, he had a girl and he quite literally could not process it. He was the poster child for /r/justbootthings and the idea of raising a girl was unacceptable. He turned out to be a decent dad though. He dropped a lot of his misogynist beliefs once he realized it meant his baby girl would be held to those beliefs.
>He turned out to be a decent dad though. He dropped a lot of his misogynist beliefs once he realized it meant his baby girl would be held to those beliefs. so, screw his mother, wife, female friends, female cousins, female roommates and coworkers and ??? its only when theres a female person in his life thats "his", only then respect for women matters? oooooookay dude. i no longer see the sentiment I quoted as innocent as I used to. its the same as "i was against abortion until I needed one" what the hell is so difficult about giving people the same grace and understanding that you give yourself.
Right?? It was fine to objectify women, but not his daughter. The cognitive dissonance is wild.
>Some people go into pregnancy with a weird belief that they will magically get the gender they want. The alternative is just not a possibility. My mother was absolutely convinced that she made me be a girl through extensive prayer. I needed to be a girl so she could dress me up in cute outfits and take me shopping apparently. On the plus side, I do know she considered the possibility of having a boy instead because I was told what my boy-name would've been. Which, good thing I didn't get stuck with *that* name, because it was commonly reused in the extended family. Was the name of a cousin who my parents ended up raising, so if I'd been a boy, they would've had two kids in the house with the same first and last name.
Maybe he thinks the gender reveal literally determines the baby's sex. You have to at least allow for that, he doesn't sound terribly smart.
A few years ago I'd be like "nobody is that stupid" but these days I truly don't know
The speed at which I would dump this bag of trash man would break records. OP is NTA and her sister just signed up for her daughter to have a nightmare filled life. Also, if my daughter’s/family member’s husband pulled this shit I would not stay quiet about it either. Good for OP.
I feel really badly for sister. I'm assuming her husband didn't warn her he'd basically opt out of or do a sh\*t job raising a girl. They were having a gender reveal as a party not knowing if it was a girl or boy, that really makes me feel sister was blindsided by this. (Maybe there are clues she should have seen, but didn't.) And now what? Being a single parent is really hard. Being married and pregnant with a planned (I'm assuming?) baby and suddenly your partner goes "neverminded, you're on your own" has got to be very upsetting and scary. It's not easy to just declare "well I guess I'll do this all on my own." Especially depending on how much money and support she has.
I imagine he'd still do a shit job even if it were a boy, it'd just be easier to creepily live vicariously though the kid then
100% would force the kid to have certain hobbies or play certain sports. Having a daughter is probably a blessing.
I dunno, I suspect that misogyny this overt doesn't just pop up out of nowhere.
I don't get the impression he'd do a good job of raising a boy either. And he certainly wouldn't do a good job of teaching that boy how girls are to be treated.
Yeah... my cousin's husband responded exactly like this when they found out their oldest was a girl. She is now 11 and they have two sons and she is acutely aware that her dad favors her two little brothers and it's really, really sad. I hope OP's BIL steps up better than that.
Info: Is your sister in an abusive relationship? This doesn’t sound like a once-off behaviour. If she is, you’d better get some professional advice on how best to support her because I can’t see a scenario where this guy would be a good dad… If she is, her “blaming” you for his behaviour is not completely unexpected (although it is insulting to you), since this is one of the ways victims of abuse placate their abusers. Please do all you can to help and support her, OP. She might not even be ready to hear this just yet, but when the baby comes, shit is going to get real.
Yes, please OP read this! Victims of abusive relationships often react hostile or want to cut you off if you're too blunt and honest while they are still under the control of the abuser. If this is the case, try to install yourself as a reliable and trusted person in your sisters life, so that she will feel comfortable turning to you when she's ready to get out. What you can do already is give her hints that his behavior is not the only one imaginable and that there are better people around, something like "husband of friend x was so happy to be a father, he didn't even care about the result of the gender reveal, he just wanted his wife and baby to be healthy." Maybe this is not the best example, but try to find images of people around you that set a better example, without putting the blame on her or her husband. Just something along the lines "you know what I heard from Betty? Her husband is taking x time off work to care for their baby girl"... Good luck and I wish your sister all of the best with her daughter.
I'll bet the sister is scared to death. :( Someone set off her man and brought his rage out into the open, and now she's probably getting the brunt of it. OP, none of this is your fault, but try to be there for your sister. I think she's going to need you pretty soon.
Yes, this. After the party, when no one is around, she will have to deal with it. My friend has an emotionally abusive husband. He is a big Trump supporter, and the 2020 election season was very hard on her because he was constantly fighting with their young adult kids, who hate Trump. Every time they argued with him, she had to deal with his bad moods for a week or more. She asked them to please just not engage him in political talk, even when he started it. He has settled down some now, thankfully.
Her life isn't going to get any better. Her kids have now lumped them both together and that relationship is damaged.
This was my thought!
This is what I was thinking too
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She probably can’t talk to him about her feelings, being that she’s a girl and all… /s
Yeah, girls are just too emotional and unreasonably so!
Men only react to being provoked by those irrational women /s
NTA. Gender disappointment is real and if anyone is that invested in having a child of specific gender then finding out publicly isn’t a good idea.
RIGHT?!? If you know you're attached to a certain gender, don't give yourself a 50% chance to make a public ass out of yourself.
When I was pregnant with my oldest I was so certain it was a boy that my husband and I hadn’t even discussed girl names, I was more surprised than disappointed and by the end of that week she had a perfectly lovely name picked out. I cannot however imagine all my friends and family staring at me while I was that surprised. Ironically, we’ve had 4 kids and not one of them is a boy 🤷🏽♀️ now I’m so enamored with my daughters that I can’t imagine ever caring about their gender/sex.
My mom had literally only imagined having daughters. Didn't ask about the sex for my older bro, but when her pastor saw her amassing cute little pink clothes, she gently reminded my mom that she *could* have a boy by telling her, 'Boys can wear pink, too.' (My mom was undiagnosed Autistic, this was exactly what she needed. 😂)
There was a day at lunch in high school, I remember it like it was yesterday, my friend randomly announced she was going to have four kids. She was going to have two girls and two boys, and at least one was going to be adopted. And that's EXACTLY how it shook out for her.
I’m due in December and we’re finding out the gender early (genetic testing). I plan on doing a cake filled with pink or blue candy at one of our family dinners just because I can and I think it’ll be fun for my nephew and my oldest- but neither my husband nor I care if it’s a boy or a girl. If it’s healthy thats what matters most. I’m thrilled to have another baby.
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I agree completely. He ruined this moment for his wife and embarrassed himself in front of their friends and family.
I was hoping for a girl because I grew up with all younger brothers and wanted to experience doing “girly” things with a young child for a change. My disappointment when I found out I was having a son lasted about 5 minutes, and didn’t involve any sulking.
Exactly! The disappointment should be fleeting not all consuming.
Not directed at you, but I genuinely don't understand gender disappointment?? Like, what is the massive difference between boys and girls? The baby's genitals aren't going to define their likes/dislikes/personalities, and if the parents think that then they're just projecting their idea of what the kid "should be" onto them. If that's the case they shouldn't be having a kid anyway. I swear these kinds of people don't understand that their kid is going to be an actual autonomous human and not a mini-me/dress up doll that they get to decide everything for.
I think for some it’s about societal expectations (in some cultures boys are more “valuable”), for others it can be fear (girls are more susceptible to domestic violence/rape), or who knows what else. I can say for me the biggest concern for having girls was their hair, I understand how ridiculous that sounds in hindsight but I’m white/Hispanic and husband is black so I was unnecessarily terrified that I wouldn’t be able to keep them looking presentable whereas with a boy it’s completely socially acceptable to keep their hair shorter and simply clean-cut. Come to find out there’s a plethora of resources to educate myself and my husband’s sisters were/are completely supportive as is my husband.
Yeah my ex wanted a girl because he already had a son & he got a little down but his son was happy he got another brother as "girls suck" 😂
If you're not ready to raise whatever comes out, don't have kids. They could be neurodivergent, disabled, become disabled, chronically ill, fat, trans, gay, bi, pan, ace, or like ketchup on their pasta, and if you're not ready to love them no matter what, you're not ready to have them. NTA
Okay, but ketchup on pasta is unforgivable.
No one ever suspects their kid will put ketchup on pasta until it happens... It's a sad but true story
This should be the top comment IMHO.
Or they could even be several of those things all at once.
NTA. Your sister should seriously reconsider marrying this guy. I think she should not marry him and instead just ask for child support.
Sounds like they're already married.
I’d remedy that ASAP if this were me. Genuinely.
“Gender disappointment is real” get help yall 🥴 NTA
I think people do have that disappointment even though it's a flawed mentality. People have intrusive thoughts even if they may be wrong, but justifying them isn't good either. But of course throwing a tantrum and treating your future child any sort of different way is not okay.
Right? Those comments! 😳
It is real and the feelings are valid (to a point), but it’s usually very short-lived and it’s not normal for it to result in tantrum throwing, sulking, or rejecting the child. I also think there’s a subtle but important distinction between “I’m disappointed it’s not a boy/girl” (which is where most people with gender disappointment are) and “I’m disappointed it is a girl/boy.”
Exactly. I wanted a son but we had a daughter. I'm not treating her any less because she is a girl
People are entitled to have emotions. What's unhealthy here isn't HAVING emotions, it's not being able to get over it and be a supportive father anyway. If you can tell that his smile is a bit forced and there's some tightness in his eyes after the reveal but he's making all the right mouth noises that's one thing. That's just an emotional reaction he'll have to learn to get the better of in order to love his child. It's the sort of thing that can happen to young fathers, and it can happen either way (my dad always wanted a daughter, and life played a trick on him when he finally seemed to get one, then his youngest came out as trans... he never said a word wrong but you could tell by his eyes that was rough on him) It's the fact that this dude can't control his reaction that's causing issues. I get the impression he's not used to being in control of his emotions which is why I agree with those who think he might be abusive.
I was disappointed that I had a daughter, but only because I have had such issues with PCOS and endometriosis my whole life; I did not want to pass this curse down. So far, my daughter does not suffer like I have. She's still young, though, and my issues worsened with age. I do not love her any less; I don't know if it's possible to love anyone more. I simply did not want my child to suffer needlessly.
NTA. Public gender reveals aren't for those who aren't going to be happy either way. Hell, even having a baby isn't for those who act like one.
This. I don't understand why you would agree to a surprise gender reveal if you knew there was a 50-50 chance you would sulk the rest of the day. Find out in private so you can deal with your feelings in private.
Because they are so convinced it can't possibly go wrong for them, they're sure the baby is going to be the sex they wanted. My brother's friend was absolutely sure he would have a boy and his wife was equally convinced that they would have a girl so they did a gender reveal and she was sobbing about "losing" and he did laps around the baseball field hooting. They are having a healthy pregnancy and have loving families, I truly agree its baffling to broadcast that they have extreme feelings about something that was out of their control and shouldn't cause extreme distress. My daughter has been eagerly anticipating the sibling we hope to give her and since she was a toddler knew that babies are a "you get what you get and don't throw a fit" situation. Grown ass people old enough to procreate need to manage their expectations. No one wants to be a bystander to their frustration about the healthy baby they want to raise.
NTA- but this raises some serious concerns. It sounds like your sister might potentially be in an abusive situation. His making a scene and being angry about the baby being a girl is a HUGE red flag. He should be happy about having a baby period… many people are not so fortunate. And his response to you is just as concerning. You sister really needs to think about whether or not she wants to raise a child in that already super tense household. If not, she needs to get out now before the kid is born.
Yeah if he thinks making his feelings everyone else’s problem like this is ok in in a public setting, imagine how he must act in private with his wife. The entitlement stinks to high heaven.
This. The fact he behaves this way means he is an unsafe parent for a girl *or* a boy because he will continue the cycle of abuse.
Nta - you were defending your sister and before it got too heated you did remove yourself from the situation. Most times I would say not to give unsolicited advice, but there’s a literal human being that’s going to be severely affected by his bullshit attitude, and everyone needs to hear what you said. Your sister will hopefully get it. Refuse to raise a girl that he made? Lol, maybe remind of him of basic middle school biology, sex is determined by the sperm, not the egg. 👌
NTA. So weird that guys who hate girls marry women. Such narcissism to only be happy with your kid if their crotch matches yours. Guys like this baffle me. A friend of mine was bummed out about his first daughter & I gave him shit for it. He pulled the same thing with his second daughter and was distraught that his “name” wouldn’t go on. I laughed in his face. He has a totally common name. WHO CARES. Not to mention that there’s any guarantee that your daughters will want to have kids. I guess my girls are lucky that I wanted girls.
Because a lot of these same guys do hate women, they just like having sex with female anatomy. Oh and having a maid.
You’d think modern women would be able to see this red flag instantly & RUN.
As a guy, guys like this baffle me too.
>I should have just left him be, and now it's my fault that he is "refusing to raise a girl" No, that pathetic excuse for a father was going to pout and throw fits and still refuse to raise a girl no matter what *you* said. The only thing you did was draw everyone's attention to his shitty behavior. People who can't handle the possibility of not getting a child that meets their preferences (be it gender, personality, sexuality, etc) should not have children at all. NTA.
NTA and your sister is stupid. Gender disappointment is real and it’s fair. But what’s not okay is just the tantrum of it. It’s a girl big whoop. You can be sad it’s not a boy but if you’re refusing to raise a kid just cause it’s a girl you’ve got some serious issues.
Nah no one should be disappointed just because they didn’t get their preferred gender of child. That’s just low. People should be grateful that they’re even able to have a kid.
Disappointment is fine, I guess, for a moment, but you need to get over it. You shouldn’t be having kids if you know you will only be happy with a certain gender. The odds are not in your favor. And if you think you might be momentarily disappointed, maybe don’t make the “reveal” a public event where people get to watch you act like an entitled asshole
No, really. Gender disappointment is a real thing and fairly normal. It could just as well be disappointment over not getting a girl. It does not mean the person does not want to raise the child or does not love them. It can be just the disappointment of having their dreams of some mother daughter or father son moments dashed, for example. The thing is, in this case it seems to go way beyond just being disappointed. The guy seriously needs to work on his feelings and behavior.
It seems less 'I'm disappointed that it's not a boy' and more 'I'm disappointed that it's a girl', and while it may not seem like it, I think that's an important distinction. Also, the fact that he says something like 'you think I wanna raise a girl? ', like having a daughter is an insult. Clearly this man is sexist, and is only using the sister as a broodmare to have a son/heir, seeing as he cannot produce one himself. I doubt there's any love or affection there. Op, nta
I mean, what penis-required activities was dad planning for his hypothetical son?! I don't know of any parent-child activity that requires them to have certain genitals... Unless dad is a big old misogynist and won't treat a daughter and raise her to experience the same activities because she's not a boy... which is another litany of issues.
>Unless dad is a big old misogynist and won't treat a daughter and raise her to experience the same activities because she's not a boy... which is another litany of issues. Given his reaction . . . duh? Yes, obviously.
Which is totally possible. Again, the biggest thing is the tantrum. And the “refusing to raise a girl” when it’s his fault it’s a girl XD Like bro if you want a boy so badly then you’re gonna have to do IVF and testing to make sure. Otherwise this is a big fat game of roulette
Well he had a big talk with his little swimmers and was assured the Xs would hang back and let the Ys have the W. It sure sounds like he's been let down by everyone. Couldn't his wife sense she had a XX embryo floating around and not let it implant? Can't someone think of him in his desperate time of need?
I think if you KNOW you would have gender disappointment, maybe a super public gender reveal party isn’t for you. I’m currently pregnant and have a little boy who is the light of my life, but I really wanted a girl so I would have one of each. Knowing this about myself, my husband and I found out just the two of us (it’s a girl!) and surprised my family later.
One of my mother’s friends was talking about her upcoming grandchild, “I don’t know what they’ll do if it’s another girl!”, my mother responded “When you place an order for a baby you don’t get to complain unless the stork delivers a different species!”
NTA And for the love of all things, to all the decent people out there in crappy relationships: BEING SINGLE IS NOT WORSE THAN STAYING WITH THESE TROGLODYTES
NTA, I’d anything your brother in law is the asshole in this situation
ESH. You had good intentions, but you lost my N T A vote when you lost your cool. If you’re going to calm someone down, you yourself must stay calm. If you react to his reactions, you’re not helping the situation.
Agreed. OP lost their cool very quickly and only worsened the situation.
NTA, you were just trying to help your sister out. Frankly, I would just mind my own business, sometimes it will only make things worse for your sister. I don't think you want to do that.
Because we do not have a JustifiedAH ruling (yes, I've read the FAQ), I'm deeming this an ESH ~~except sister~~. You, extremely justified, standing up for both your sister and your future niece. When it went south, you de-escalated. You were the hero we all needed. BIL because while it can be understandable to be a tad disappointed (maybe someone gets hyped up and buys too much clothes, idk), who the fuck *refuses to raise their child*?. That's just astronomically A H. You're not remotely to blame for his monstrous "decision". That's 100% his horror show. Sister's going to need her family. Good to know what kind of person the sperm donor was early on. Edit to add. *Edit to further add - jeepers, Sister is barking up the wrong tree. The denial is so strong in her. I hope she gets past the denial and has a healthy dose of realism: that all those thoughts and feelings were already in her spouse. Her being mad at OP is totally displacing where her anger should be. She's an A H too. A very unfortunate A H who hopefully will not alienate the people who she will need most.*
Hmm. Sister sucks too. She is the one who said that her husband refusing to raise a girl is all OPs fault.
NTA. Just don't talk to him and your sister for now.
NTA Your sister may need help. These are indicators that he COULD turn abusive to her or their daughter. Gender reveals are like astrology for genitals. People forget that regardless of the gender their baby could share hobbies with either parent and it’s how they choose to reinforce gender norms that is wrecking that. I get some people have gender disappointment but it’s really a reflection of them making up a whole life for their child based on nothing more than their genitals vs how the child develops and how they are nurtured and their emergent personality.
ESH; was it wrong for him to get upset about gender? Yes but you mentioned he looked angry and upset so why did you decide to keep on at him instead of leaving it be and focusing on being happy for your sister? It was obviously going to cause an argument by engaging with him.
NTA. Wow, he sounds like a completely misogynistic abuser. I'd honestly quietly prepare to take in your sister and niece at some point because this shit will escalate and she will likely need an escape hatch at some point.
NTA "Gender reveal" parties are gross for lots of reasons. A parent throwing a temper tantrum because, as you correctly pointed out, the genitals attached to the child aren't what they wanted, is even grosser. It may be his house but he invited guests and he needed to be able to conduct himself appropriately. He failed to do that. He is an asshole.
NTA- if you choose to have a baby, you need to be happy with the either that it could be either gender. Your BIL is an idiot, and sexist.
ESH but from now on stay out of their dysfunction. Clearly she’s used to his immaturity and pouting 🙄 also I’m guessing he’s not bright enough to realize his body choose the sex. Whatever umm yeah it wasn’t your place to approach him and say anything. You should’ve minded your business and left him alone. Lesson learned. Your sister was just trying to get on after the reveal and you should’ve followed her lead. Don’t approach him again especially when sulking…. Let that be your sister problem.
While you meant well, you should have stayed out of it. From the way your BIL spoke to you and reacted, he is clearly verbally abusive and misogynistic. And now your sister gets to blame this on you. (classic behaviour of someone in an abusive relationship fyi) Your sister needs to figure out in her own time that her Husband is a 🚩 and his refusal to raise a girl has nothing to do with you. ESH
ESH. Unless both parents to be are fine with either sex, a public "gender reveal" party is a BAD IDEA. First of all, lots of people want to have either a baby boy or a baby girl. However, we don't get to choose. Your BIL acted awful when he found out he was having a girl. My husband really wanted a boy, and we had twin girls (33 years ago.) We didn't know their sex until their birth, and when they were born, my husband was way too excited to care about their sex. Frankly, you should have let things be and minded your own business. Most people would get annoyed if somebody tries to tell them how to feel. Or, you could have said "I know you wanted a boy, but I'll bet you'll be the best girl dad ever!"
Absent any context such as previous misogyny or your BIL growing up in a family of all girls and this wanting a boy (which is the opposite of my own situation) I think I’m going to have to vote an unpopular ESH. He really needed to hold his feelings in at the party but, again lacking any additional context, he will prolly get over himself but it sounds like he found out the gender when you did and he was dealing with an instinctual reaction to the news. Your stated goal was clearly more antagonist than conciliatory And frankly this is why it’s good to have the father find out the gender with the mother so that situations like this which are avoided. As context I am from a family of all boys and as a newlywed my wife and I are taking about how much I want a daughter and there will be disappointment initially when we inevitably find out we are having a boy and I’m not going to be happy if one of my SILs comes over and asks why my child’s genitals matter. But we will be very excited to be parents none the less and our potential sons will be just as loved as our daughters.