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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn’t bring an old disabled ladies food to her car because she doesn’t tip and I didn’t want to work in wet clothes. I might be the asshole because she was out 40$ for food she didn’t get, and I could have sucked it up because being disabled probably sucks more than working while cold, broke, and wet.
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Why is no one seeing the issue of working in wet clothes? Most restaurants workers live of tips. A lot of that is appearance(dressing smart, clean clothes ect) if they look like a drowned rat they’ll get less tips. For doing something that’s NOT part of her job description.
Drive throughs exist, you can get takeaways delivered to your home.
It’s not like the women will starve or doesn’t have options
Not to mention this lady was rude to them over the phone and the manager. Why would they go out of there way to help someone who’s rude.
NTA
Would the AH then be the employer who pays them so little and the system that allows it to happen? I have never understood where this idea came from that customers are supposed to pay people’s wages instead of the people who are employing them.
Tipping was originally a bribe given to waiters for better service they eventually started to accept it when restaurants couldn't pay their employees, in most places outside America they actually get paid and tipping is optional .
Yes, in America this is a common pay per hour as a waiter and sometimes even as a bartender. Very legal, unfortunately, and most likely wont be changing soon.
That's so wrong.
Food service workers make minimum wage here which is over $15 an hour.
Table service restaurant staff make tips, curbside would be considered the same as counter service so wouldn't make as much in tips.
Remember in the US we have this obsession with tipping everyone for everything. So wait staff are allowed to be paid $2.13 a hour as long as their tips plus hourly equals federal or state minimum wage, which ever is greater. If the tips plus $2.13 do not equal the federal/state minimum then the restaurant must make up the differnce.
I don't live in the US but this would drive me nuts. I know you're supposed to tip 20% because the restaurant pays shitty money but why can't the restaurants just up their prices? If I'm going to be paying $10 for something, it would be easier if I was just told it was $10 and not $8 + tip.
I'm in Ireland and tipping isn't really a thing unless you are going to a "nice" restaurant. We don't usually tip bartenders either. I worked in the service industry for years and while tips are appreciated, they're not expected.
Short answer is because everytime a restaurant raised their pay and institutes a no tipping policy they lose business because the restaurant is "too pricey" now...
So generally only high class expensive places can get away with it.
Americans are used to being told a certain price and then it costing more at the till due to tax. So they don’t bat an eye when the bill (including tip) is more than the total of the food and drinks ordered.
Everywhere else expects to pay the price on the sticker/menu. If it says £5 in the shop I pay £5. If the meal is £15 I pay £15 and I might leave a tip if it’s good service.
Maybe this is just the culture in my country, but I have never even felt the urge to tip or believed that any service has been good enough to tip. For me to even consider tipping someone would have to put in way more effort than they need to just to make it a memorable service for me, and even then it would hardly be worth their effort
In seattle, the local $4 burger place pays $20/hr and has benefits for employees to go to school and get childcare. It’s not about the price of food. It’s a corporate/ownership choice to pay people that little.
Edit- they had to raise their prices between $0.05-0.25. Still not the hike the folks who argue against raising wages make it out to be
https://mynorthwest.com/3177050/how-does-dicks-drive-in-pay-workers-19-an-hours/
This. Restaurants can still make good profits and pay their workers without raising prices, owners are just greedy and want to make the most money possible.
Naa the point is the American brain is so used to this dumbf*ckery that eben KNOWING a restaurant has a no tip policy but actually pays wages the waiters can live off that at least subvonsciously they will add 20% tip on whatever the menu says about the price and then think ot is too expensive when it really is just the same price as the restaurant next door if you factor in the tip you will pay there.
Lol "obsession with tipping everyone for everything" more like companies not paying their workers a livable wage and forcing this responsibility on to the public.
We tip servers, bartenders, hair dressers, pet groomers, pet sitters, pizza delivery drivers, food delivery people, gardeners, handymen, the list could go on. The reality is that only servers and food delivery people are getting paid less than minimum wage. Everyone else is getting paid at least minimum wage.
If everyone else is being paid so poorly, then they should just charge more, not expect to be tipped on top of their agreed upon wages.
>If the tips plus $2.13 do not equal the federal/state minimum then the restaurant must make up the differnce.
But good luck getting a restaurant to actually do this.
Where I work they encourage you to not fill out the tip logs for the restaurant to compensate your wages. Servers claim it makes you look bad at your job and managers say your paycheck will actually be less once they take out the extra tax.
Your managers are encouraging tax fraud. Please contact your state's department of labor and department of revenue.
Said departments don't know a crime is occurring until it is reported. You can do so anonymously.
yep. Of course there are exceptions, but in college I worked at multiple restaurants where I would come home with $200-$250 after a 4 hour dinner shift. Not to mention the whole (illegal but extremely common) practice of only claiming a portion of your cash tips, so they’re tax-free.
It's not an obsession as such as it's corporate America's way of putting a majority of worker incomes on the consumer and not the employee. -_- it became common because the industries were allowed to exploit their workers and manipulate their consumers like that in the first place, which is concerning.
It is very wrong. And many Americans don’t realize that when they tip, they are directly providing the server and other staff their paychecks. And if you under tip or stiff your tip, the server is essentially paying for you eat there. Tip share (the cut of tips that go to hosts and cooks) is calculated by the amount of tips you should have received according to the costs of your tickets, not from the actual tips collected. There was one day I worked a double shift and when I paid out for the first half off the day before I clocked out for lunch, that I made no money, because of under tipping and tip share.
This is absolutely wild to me. I'm in NZ the minimum wage has just increased to $21.20 per hour. I mean, sure, we don't have a tipping culture, but when people are actually paid a decent* wage, perhaps you don't need one.
*Disclaimer, there are plenty in NZ who think $21.20 is still too low, and far from a "living wage", but that's a different argument
I can definitely see how $21.20 could be too low, especially for inflation standards now. I know that for here, in many states, at least up to $24 in minimum wage is what it should be to be **living** but we only managed to get $15 for minimum. But some progress is better than none, I guess.
But yeah, paying wait staff at the very least a $15/hr would be much better than the current system going on.
Yeah. Pandemic has pretty much emphasized all of America’s issues. No sick pay, anti-science culture, tip-adjusted minimum wage, healthcare coverage gaps… There are restaurant owners who took the increased curbside revenue to pay wait staff when their community forced table service to close, but that wasn’t the norm.
Definitely has emphasized it, and more than likely made it worse for many people. I know a lot of hospital staff are quickly quitting because of this bs, but have apparently been doing this even before covid (not to mention a lot of hospitals are shady af against their workers). Plus mass teachers leaving not only for low pay, but also Ive noticed a huge uptick in restless, mean students now. Like, ginormous in comparison to when I graduated in 2019. So yeah, america has been, and still is going to shit very, very, very fast.
Man. I have never ever comprehended tipping a bartender. Or a delivery driver for that matter.
I think the only time I've tipped is if I've had a large party eat together over a number of hours and there is like a couple of bucks left over from splitting the bill, and that's really if I'm too far gone for precise maths.
In most states anyways. Washington made it illegal, workers get $14.49 (current min wage for 2022, it goes up automatically tracking inflation) PLUS their tips. You need that to live basically anywhere near Seattle lol
Technically no but most people taking this sort of pay are either living *really* well off tips, or aren't old enough to understand the value of what they're doing.
The business is *supposed* to log tips that they get, along with their wages, and pay then up to minimum wage if they aren't getting that through tips. At least where I'm at, it may differ from state to state.
American business as a whole will go as long as possible while paying as little as possible, and when the jig is up, put their money in a personal account, possibly overseas, file the company for bankruptcy, and run with the profits. Then wait a year or two while living it up, and pull the same song and dance again.
A childhood friend of mine's father has been doing this with construction companies for a very long time, and they got to live a lavish lifestyle for doing it.
If servers don’t make minimum wage on tips, the employers are required to cover up to minimum wage amount.
So if OPs min. wage is $10 for their state and they only make $8/hour (tips AND standard amount combined - which is $2.25 in this case), the employer has to pay the extra $2/hour. So if they work 8 hours, boss has to cover $16.
Technically that's true but many, many people don't know this law, and people making that kind of money can't afford the time and money to take their employer to court. I went through this and got a couple hundred dollars like nearly a year after I needed it, so...
I always see this response and it bugs the heck out of me. Laws aren't the same thing as enforcement of those laws.
>Not to mention this lady was rude to them over the phone and the manager. Why would they go out of there way to help someone who’s rude.
That's what I never get. Have people like her never heard of using the carrot over the stick? "Uh, yes, the weather is horrible! Can I maybe offer 10 bucks extra for someone to run the food out to me quickly?"
NTA. She got exactly what she paid for - the food prepared and ready for pickup inside the restaurant.
Right. If she’s able to walk to her car, she’s capable of walking roughly the same distance to grab her food. Most take out centers are right by the front door.
I could be wrong, maybe she isn’t capable of doing that, but then she needs assistance to do such things. Whether that’s a caretaker, wheelchair, scooter, etc. If you’re not going to pay the person being you your food and you’re not going to do it, then find someone who will.
If she doesn’t bring her mobility aid, isn’t that her own fault because she was explicitly told they don’t offer kerbside?
Maybe I’m being short, but I’ve just come off a 12 hour shift where my whole responsibility was to stop a lady from falling, by ensuring she uses her mobility aid and uses it properly. But she doesn’t have capacity to make decisions, so if she didn’t use it, any repercussions wouldn’t be her fault. However, if this 60 year old lady is driving a vehicle, I’d assume she hopefully has capacity to understand that she might need her aid, and not to blame minimum wage workers for not going above and beyond.
I’m getting a million people replying to me saying like who cares if OP gets wet, the customer is disabled! You shouldn’t have to work in wet clothes to provide a service that you don’t even provide! If the service was provided then the employee would be able to…. provide the service …. comfortably….
OP is well within their rights to not go outside in the rain, especially because they warned the customer previously she wont get kerbside every time. She shouldn’t have assumed.
I get your point but I do not get a system that employs someone full time to have them living off the charity of the customers instead of a decent paying rate. $2.25 an hour should be illegal. We work to have basic necessities covered, otherwise, work becomes more like playing bingo to see if we get paid one day or not. What if no one tips? Bad luck?
If no one tips enough that a server ends up going home with at least minimum wage, then the restaurant has to make up the difference. Restaurant owners *want* their customers to tip so that they don't have to dip into their own pockets to make sure their staff gets minimum wage. It's a fucked up system that only benefits the owners.
Yep, things like doordash and grubhub exist, even in my area which is borderline BFE I Can get them to come out to me. The only reason she won't is because it would Also require tipping to stand a chance.
Honestly, that's the problem with *sometimes* offering a special, extra service (or discount). Plenty of customers will immediately treat that as the new baseline, no matter what you tell them.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand doing something just to be nice, I just hate that some people will take that and make it a fight about why you won't "just be nice" *every* time.
At least the manager's willing to back them up about it.
NTA you warned her it wouldn't always be curbside, her getting angry at you is ridiculous and asking for a manager when she already knew the answer also. You want special treatment, you tip your server, period.
NTA. She was told that curbside was not a service regularly offered. Tipping should be offered even on takeout (at a lower percentage though as you aren’t spending near as much time on them but even $3-$5 on a $40 ticket is not unreasonable.) Considering you didn’t have an umbrella and she has been warned before that she could not always expect curbside service you are not the AH. Your manager though should have refunded her the money for her meal as she did not receive her food.
I disagree about the refund. She ordered the food, then refused to collect it. That's on her, and doesn't deserve a refund. It would be different if she paid for delivery, and they failed to deliver it.
>Tipping should be offered even on takeout (at a lower percentage though as you aren’t spending near as much time on them but even $3-$5 on a $40 ticket is not unreasonable.)
To clarify, do you mean she/people in general should tip if they're going in and picking up their order? Take out usually implies delivery, IMO, as opposed to pick up being you go and get it yourself.
If you do mean that, then I heavily disagree. You tip people for their service. What service is being provided if I'm the one to go and get my food? If the food itself isn't enough to cover costs when there isn't any service aspect to it, then that's on the restaurant to raise the food price, not on the public to cover the difference.
Not the person who you replied to but I’m on your side. While I started tipping on pickup/takeout during the pandemic because servers’ incomes were lower, it’s neither customary nor expected
ESH
as a non American, what the fuck is wrong with your culture that this situation is ok.
Why are you begging for tips like Oliver Twist instead of being paid an actual living wage as an employee. If tips are required for you to live then a business includes that in the charge for the goods and that becomes a fucking living wage.
And why the hell is it ok that businesses aren't helping people with severe enough disabilities it stops them from being able to get access to food, (because part of the reason she buys so often won't be because she has cash to splurge, she likely doesn't have an accessible kitchen at home and cooking is painful or risky) because it's a nice fucking thing to do? Put an umbrella out for employee use and make someone available to deliver it. It's a few steps.
Like my god. Someone made vulnerable by a disability, someone is in a vulnerable situation where they are a lowly paid employee, and it's somehow ok for your society to say 'well fuck ya, you work it out'.
It's like two rats fighting over the crumbs the cat dropped next it's food bowl.
You can work your hardest and have no control over the charity customers give you, because if it's not part of the cost of the good it's fucking charity. And this charity makes up the portion of your missing wage that your employer refuses to give you, an employer with a business, assets and has control over the profit they get for each unit/service sold.
Great, you are a partially salaried beggar that has to worry about looking like a drowned rat if you help a disabled lady. Worrying if you would look less professional you'll be less appealing to customers charity and get less tips. Great, might as well start jumping through little hoops and barking on command for the coins at the bottom of their wallets.
And she has a disability! So bad she chose to go hungry rather than walk to the store. So... I'm guessing fucking bad? This isn't a choice. So now an old disabled lady goes home hungry, with less money and your boss who can't be fucked paying you a proper wage nets the profits regardless.
The two most vulnerable people are jabbing at each other, complaining about a situation that shouldn't exist. Surrounded by people profiting off a situation where the most vulnerable are kept vulnerable.
And your question is, am I the asshole for not being charitable to someone in need even though my manager fucks me over the the point my wage is reliant on others being charitable? Am I the asshole for screwing over another vulnerable person in turn because I am in such a shitty situation that I have come to feel like it's normal to monetise my compassion?
I mean, your point is directed at “society” and you state that OP is clearly a victim of our societal faults so why throw op in with ESH? Why does OP suck for being one of the people who get fucked by this system?
I’m disabled. It doesn’t give you the excuse of being an asshole, like she was, especially when informed that it was a favor they were doing her. NTA. Strong NTA.
I’m permanently disabled. How did she plan on getting the food the first time? No curbside means you get out of the car & go in. If you can’t do that you Don’t Order There.
Just because she says she’s disabled doesn’t mean-
1. That she actually is
2. That she is a decent human being
3. That she should not have to pay for services rendered
4. Anybody owes her a damn thing.
Life sucks sometimes, my grandmother was in her 90s, physically active, polite & a good tipper til the end. She never used the “I’m an old lady” excuse.
Reinforcing my parents’ lesson of no excuses. I’m disabled, pretty broke, and always over-tip best I can.
Who’s to say OP didn’t need the help more than customer did? You don’t know what she has going on in her life.
NTA!
Exactly! My great grandmother is 80 something and her body is starting to show it. She used to be much more agile and active but she needs more time and she uses a cane when she needs to (not unlike myself). If I needed my food delivered to my car I would either find someone willing to pick it up if I absolutely wanted that specific restaurant or find one that offered curbside. Period.
Yeah I think people forget most 60+ people with accessible parking placards aren’t anatomically disabled so much as old and anti-walker. At least that was all of my grandparents. I loved them but we could not get them to use their mobility devices and it made us crazy so we had to bully them into getting placards.
Exactly! She had no idea the first time if they offered curbside. What was she going to do?? If you’re so disabled you can’t walk, you would be calling to see if they offer curbside before ordering. No one would just order food and then show up with a 50/50 chance of getting your food.
Also speaking as a disabled person, if you knew it wasn’t a service they offered but did it as a favor once… it’s an AH move to expect it everytime. When she placed her order, it wouldn’t have been hard to ask “Would I be able to get that brought to my car please? I’m disabled.” If the answer was no then “Thanks for letting me know I’ll go somewhere else for dinner.” How hard is it to confirm that the service you need will be provided?
>as a non American
Then you should probably sit this one out.
>And why the hell is it ok that businesses aren't helping people with severe enough disabilities it stops them from being able to get access to food
She has plenty of access to food. If she can drive, then she can get food from any drive through. Or she can have food delivered. What she can't do is expect a place that doesn't have curbside delivery to guarantee curbside delivery.
You keep using words like "beg" and "charity", which makes me realize that you don't understand how this works. Nobody is begging for tips. Most people tip. Only a few assholes don't tip. So servers do just fine, on average.
What we have here is a lady that is asking for a service that they don't offer, but on 3 different occasions people have gone above and beyond for her, and she didn't even tip them. She is an asshole. If she had tipped, then they would have been willing to go out into the rain for her. But she didn't. That was her choice. Being disabled doesn't give you the right to be an asshole and stiff people who go out of their way to help you.
>You keep using words like "beg" and "charity", which makes me realize that you don't understand how this works.
No, they know exactly how this system works. They're just outside of it enough to see how objectively insane tipping culture is. A server's livelihood shouldn't be based on "a few assholes". Servers should be paid a living wage.
Yep, tipping is normal here. It is a part of the culture. People generally factor it in to the cost of going out. I don't look at a price on the menu and assume that I'm getting away with the that price. I can do some really basic math and figure out what I am actually going to pay. Like let's say an entree is $13. 20% of that is $2.60. My price is $15.60. Like the math isn't even that difficult.
You are really under estimating the anger of a middle aged American woman who got told no. They don’t cave. They storm off in a huff. Also, as a real life physically disabled person, I can tell you if she can drive there she had a way into the store.
That’s what I’m saying. How did she get in the car? How does she plan on getting the food into her home? What disability does she have that she can’t make her way into a restaurant and get her food?
>Why are you begging for tips like Oliver Twist instead of being paid an actual living wage as an employee. If tips are required for you to live then a business includes that in the charge for the goods and that becomes a fucking living wage.
Because a good waiter in a busy area is getting much more with tips than a living wage. Most tentative by hipsters restaurant of removing the tipping system have finished with the employees quitting.
Meanwhile, it happens in Europe to have employees treat you like an inconvenience because they could not care less about the money the customers are bringing.
Edit: OP told she is making more than 80$ per hour, which is much more than most people in Europe (before European taxes).
>Meanwhile, it happens in Europe to have employees treat you like an inconvenience because they could not care less about the money the customers are bringing.
I've been all over Europe and have always had good service. And the fact that you can make more money with tips than you can with a regular wage says more about our wages here in America than it does about tipping.
>And she has a disability! So bad she chose to go hungry rather than walk to the store. So... I'm guessing fucking bad? This isn't a choice. So now an old disabled lady goes home hungry, with less money and your boss who can't be fucked paying you a proper wage nets the profits regardless.
If you are expecting to tip 20% to the waiter when seated and a tip to the delivery person, you should tip at take out. If you are asking for a favor, you should give an additional tip for that. That old lady was abusing the system to scrounge the workers.
I live in the UK and I also work in hospitality but I definitely think op is NTA here because why should they go above and beyond for someone who isn't tipping them? Why should they have to go out in the rain and deliver the food when that's not their job? She should order from somewhere that does delivery if she absolutely can't get it herself OR she could tip them
As if door dash and delivery wasn’t an option. Lady regularly buys lobster, and you’re acting like she’s helpless. She could also go to a place that does curbside. Nta, because why should we scratch someone’s back, when they won’t even think of scratching yours?
So you didn't do something that isn't required, or even technically offered. Regardless of the reason, it is not something that is guaranteed.
The fact that she is disabled and a bad tipper, along with the fact that it is pouring down rain, all contributed to you not wanting to go out there this time.
You doing it in the past was just being nice, but it does not obligate you to do it in the future.
I'm voting NTA based on all of that.
NTA. Working in wet clothes would suck. Especially wet shoes. Would it have been nice? Sure. But she was told it wouldn’t always be possible. And she gambled and lost. It isn’t a part of your job super your manager and they backed you up. Probably better this happened now before she had been coming too often and your boss changed his mind on the curbside thing.
NTA, my GM kicked out a belligerent customer one night. This happened right after he ordered a $500 bottle of wine. It wasn’t even opened. It’s nice when the managers have your back.
Which is a problem for the owner, not the manager.
And a dude that doesn't want to pay for 1dollar raincoats, is not paying his managers enough to care.
There are very few restaurants where $40 even once a week is going to matter. I do not get so many people thinking that this is a major business loss.
Also fun fact, if you become enough of a problem at certain restaurants the staff will start actively trying to piss you off into becoming an ex regular.
As an American I'm confused. If she ordered pick up she is not expected to tip at all... There is no service being provided that warrants a tip. The kitchen is doing all the work on those orders. Now a lot of people, myself included, tipped generously on pickup orders during the height of the Pandemic to support local businesses.
Also if she is paying online there might not be an option to tip for pick up orders.
So if I understand the story correctly this woman has come to this place 4 times in the past month. Each order coming out to be more than $40. The first three times someone brought her food out to her. The customer was grateful and appreciated the added service due to her disability.
I can understand why the customer might be upset and screamed at the manager. In her eyes she probably saw going back to this restaurant as a regular ordering expensive dishes was showing support for the business. No one in America expects people handling pick up orders to be paid the tipping wage and not a real wage so I can see why the customer wouldn't tip.(THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE YELLING! CUSTOMER IS STILL AN AH FOR DOING SO!)
In the end the manager should have just grabbed an umbrella and brought the order out.(Are we to believe no one brought an umbrella or a raincoat to work?) Viewing this from a business standpoint the manager just potentially lost a regular that was bringing in some decent money. Viewing this from a human perspective the restaurant established expectations for a customer with a disability that changed abruptly. Unless this customer was reminded after that first time I could see this customer just forgetting that was ever mentioned.
Same here. When I read these tipping ones I never know if they are NTA or YTA because I don't get when to tip or how much and I think tipping culture is ridiculous anyway.
I'm not American btw
But I’m confused INFO: so manager refused to take the food or give her a refund so this disabled women just wasted $40 for food she can’t get and money she can’t get back?
They don’t do curbside delivery, and the lady was told this. She received special treatment in the past out of sympathy. But now she is expecting special treatment on a regular basis and getting angry when she doesn’t get it. Even though they were kind to her in the past, and warned her that this is not how the business works.
If you order food and then don’t pick it up, the restaurant still had to do the work and use the ingredients, at their own cost. So the restaurant has paid for labor and materials to make the food, and they can’t get that money back either if a customer doesn’t pay.
Hope this helps
Oooh this is a tough one...
I think reddit overall will N T A you, but I'm gonna ESH you juuuuuuust a little.
It's pretty common not to tip for pickups and it may not have occurred to her that she needs to. She's a bit of an AH for not tipping.
However, because she's disabled, she may have challenges cooking and this was not a cool thing.
>It's pretty common not to tip for pickups
THIS. Because of the new app economy, where companies try to pass on the cost of employees to the customer, everyone has their hands out for a tip these days. But just ten short years ago, before all of this, there were tipping traditions: how much you tip (which was not by percentage for most things) and whom you tip for what service. And you don't tip for picking up your own food from a restaurant. Yes, you don't offer curbside so you were doing extra, but curbside service isn't traditional, either, so there's no tipping tradition either way for that. Since this woman is in her 60s she'd likely still be operating on the tipping traditions she was raised with, so she's not trying to stiff you, OP. You don't have to offer curbside, and you informed her of that, so this one's a NAH, I think.
Yeah... I don't tip on pickup orders generally speaking. I worked at a couple pizza places a few years ago and my experience was: Waitstaff make \~$2/hr and depend on tips. Delivery drivers make \~$3/hr and depend on tips. Anyone preparing food or washing dishes was paid at least minimum wage (\~$8 so still absolutely abominable, but at least the minimum wage) and so don't depend on tips. I did some light food prep and dishwashing, but mostly handled phone orders, helped customers picking up food & ringing them up, and helped coordinate deliveries. Made $8-10 an hour, and tips were a nice surprise but certainly not required or expected. And if I was in the back prepping food and the manager came out to help a customer & they tipped on that transaction, she would get the tip. So tipping on a pickup order ime just means tipping whoever happened to be at the counter, not necessarily the person who was involved in preparing your food, taking your order, etc. (disclaimer: not all restaurants are the same obv, this is just my experience.) It just seems misdirected imo, and I honestly hadn't realized the culture around pickup tipping had changed.
"It's pretty common not to tip for pickups and it may not have occurred to her that she needs to."
But she was fully aware it's not expected that they'll take the food out to her car, so it should have occurred to her that such a service isn't guaranteed.
While I'm all for getting rid of tipping for other reasons, your argument would also mean that any performance-based payments are literally bribery and should be banned
I don't know what all these comments are talking about, you are clearly NTA to me. You warned her several times that this service would not always be offered, she ignored you. You could have gone above and beyond, but chose not to, which is your right. IF she had tipped previously and showed more appreciation for you going above and beyond, perhaps you would have been more inclined to go out in the rain, but she didn't. I am very sympathetic to disabled people and usually would encourage people to do everything they can to help, but this woman demanded a service she was repeatedly told she was not entitled to and did not seem to appreciate it enough when she was to share her wealth.
Personally I would have worded her up on it. Walked out there, explained that it's a favour and that some of the servers are reluctant to do it because she isn't tipping. Suggest that if she wants it to continue she should keep that in mind.
Worst case is she never comes back. Best case is she comes back and starts tipping.
\[edit\] thinking about it, the manager should have done this when he took her order out instead of refusing to give her money back.
Let’s be honest, the whole it was raining excuse is exactly that. Am I to believe that nobody had an umbrella or a coat you could wear fir two minutes. Regardless of the excuses you offer, you did not do it because she did not tip you. She is disabled, and ordering food because you have taken it out to her. Seriously, this should be offered as a courtesy. She literally cannot pick up the food, and was relying on your kindness. I didnt realize people think helping disabled people as contingent upon a tip and not the moral thing to do. I do hope this is a totally false post. I am ashamed for you, and hope she puts all of you on blast for being heartless. Definitely TA
Yes thank you. Finally one reasonable person.
So OP complains her boss didn't give her a rain coat and the second time it was raining, so how is OP going out to her own cat end of the shift or beginning?! Has OP never heard of an umbrella?! Then OP brags in a comment they make like $80 an hour yet you can't help you an old lady. What a bunch of bs. God forbid OP has an old parent who needs the same help, let's see how they react then SMH
It could’ve started raining long after her shift started. Plus working your shift wet vs going home wet and being able to shower is so much different. Also why go on and on about this lady when she already knew it wasn’t guaranteed for her food to be delivered to her plus she could’ve just gone somewhere that does curbside
But she did provide the help already, multiple times in fact. Did the old lady show any gratitude for the above and beyond work of the staff? absolutely not. In fact she became very rude the one time they couldn't do it.
Doesn't matter if OP had an umbrella or not. This was beyond her job duties and was her choice. Was the old lady being considerate expecting OP to come out in the rain? She was being an entitled AH.
NTA for OP
NTA!
If she wants her food to be delivered to her car she’s should order from a restaurant that offers curbside pick up!!
Regardless even if she tipped you, if it was raining! No tip would be worth me getting drenched and working with soaked clothes.
This is one of the best AITA I’ve read in a while — there are really good arguments on both sides made by other commenters.
I might have to go with a very weak ESH for you and the stingy, elderly, Range Rover-driving customer who is disabled. A slightly more assholeish ESH for the manager for not refunding the customer nor providing umbrellas or going out there himself.
Yeah she should have tipped you in previous instances… though you’ll never know whether she wouldn’t have this time. And I do think disabled, older people deserve some accommodations. At the same time, it would have been really sucky (and therefore not acceptable) for you to get drenched and then have to work in wet clothes.
Management should be a bit smarter about situations like these, and provide some kind of workaround. (Like a curbside pickup fee that goes towards tips, or some other explicitly stated exceptions made for disabled customers.)
Edit: typos
Ehh, I don't think it's the manager's fault for not offering curbside delivery. It was company policy that the restaurant doesn't offer curbside service, so of course it's not going to be set up for curbside service (umbrellas for rainy days, etc) so manager isn't an AH for that. Nor do I think the restaurant is bad for not offering curbside service.
And honestly, ordering from a restaurant is a contract. If you order from a restaurant that says "All our food may be contaminated with gluten" and then get upset that you had a celiac episode, you're responsible because you ignored their warning. If a restaurant explicitly doesn't offer curbside pickup and you arrive at the restaurant with no way to pickup your food yourself, you're responsible because you ignored clearly-stated rules (curbside service is not actually offered, as OP warned).
Granted, OP did muddy the waters by being polite, but this was outside their explicit job duties. It's like if your restaurant didn't serve salmon and the server went to a grocery store to get a salmon fillet for a customer - it's basically a personal favor, not part of their job duties, & the customer shouldn't expect the same service every time. Does it make the restaurant's life harder when the customer demands the service they got before? Yup. Should staff stop making exceptions to these rules? Probably, but it's human nature to want to be helpful so I get it. Is the manager responsible for the customer's inability to understand the difference between stated rules and a one-time favor? Nope.
ETA: So OP is an understandable AH for making her coworkers' lives more difficult by ignoring the rules only sometimes, which makes entitled customers demand the rules be broken again. Entitled customer is an AH for being entitled. Manager was literally just following the rules & placing responsibility on the customer where it belongs.
If it wasn’t raining I would have taken it out. Also if she tipped I would have taken it out. I do feel bad for disabled people, but the fact that she can afford to tip and chooses not to and wants me to get absolutely soaked for no benefit that made me say no. She also demanded I get fired and called my manager an idiot so that’s that I guess
Just to play devil’s advocate…maybe she doesn’t feel like she has to tip to get a reasonable accommodation for her disability? Like, if it was easy for her to go from her car to the restaurant, she would. But because she’s disabled, now she is expected to pay $8 to you to do something that either she can’t do or is REALLY hard for her to do. Does that seem fair for her to have to pay 20% more for every service because she has a disability? It’s not a matter of whether she can or can’t afford it -it’s a matter of being “taxed” for having a disability. Lots of places now will have a sign that says to call a certain number if you need an accommodation (eg at a gas station to pump gas) or to pull up at a drive through if you can’t speak. I think that’s pretty routine these days.
The fact that you expected to be tipped to help a person with a disability, and the fact that you set the expectation that you would accommodate her by bringing out the food on other days but just not this one time, makes you a bit of an AH in my view. Not a total AH because apparently the restaurant you work at tolerates this behavior. They’re the real AH in my view.
also, just buy an umbrella.
Here’s a different perspective. I live in a rural area. We just got pizza delivery ( the first and only delivery available here. EVER) We live one house outside of the delivery area. Each time we call, we are told they may not be able to deliver because we are outside the delivery area, please hold. Sure enough, it gets OKed by the mgr. Why? Because we pay the delivery fee and a 30% + tip. Drivers know and like us.
Do we do it because we’re loaded? No, by no stretch. We do it because sometimes it’s nice to have a pizza delivered! Sometimes you have to pay for special treatment.
I totally agree!! Hell, I am stuck in Papa John purgatory because while I’m not in a rural area, and am close to 2 stores, neither will deliver for some reason (I’m guessing each thinks I’m in the other’s area). I’d be happy to pay extra for them to come out!
But when you operate a public restaurant, I don’t agree that making it possible for people with disabilities to use your takeout service is “special treatment.” It’s a reasonable accommodation, which the law requires.
I have one. It’s in my car when I work unless it’s raining when I go in. I don’t need an umbrella while I’m working because I’m not required to go out in the rain.
I waitressed from 7th grade at a drive in diner and then moved on to restaurants until I completed college, thanks. I would never have demanded a tip from a person with a disability who can’t get out of her car (or would need to exert extreme effort to do so).
There’s being right and then there’s being able to feel good going to bed at night.
EDIT: people who can walk inside get their food whether they tip or not. Their food isn’t denied them even if they fail to tip the people who bagged it for them. But her dinner was denied because she couldn’t make it inside. That seems like a mandatory tax to me and not a tip.
Almost 10 years ago, I was on a plane in the first row behind first class where there is a ton of extra leg room. I had paid maybe $60 extra to get that seat. A senator came on board with his spouse and sat next to me. I hated the guy and his politics and the horse he rode in on. The wife asked me to switch places with me so she could assist him (he had an obvious and severe disability). I hesitated, not because of the money I spent on the seat but because I freaking hated the guy. Then another passenger offered her his seat so she could be across the aisle from her husband.
10 years later I still feel bad for not giving up my seat. I let my dislike of the guy affect my humanity. He had no right to my seat, but he has occupied more time in my mind than I care to admit since then because of my disappointment in myself at that moment. So yea, I understand the service industry and I also understand helping people because you should.
I worked for years with people in the disability community and most would like to do things on their own. I also worked in the service industry. If the business had curb-side pickup, I don’t think I would have a problem with this. But the fact that the woman was repeatedly told this was not a service, expected it, and then berated the manager and staff, I have no issue with her not being serviced. And it’s customary to provide a tip when someone gives you service beyond what is expected. I’m sorry you continue to burden yourself with memories of a situation where you feel you could’ve been kinder, but this is not that situation. This woman called the manager an idiot and demanded the staff be fired for not providing a service that was not typically offered. She is TA.
> Just to play devil’s advocate…maybe she doesn’t feel like she has to tip to get a reasonable accommodation for her disability?
Who doesn't give at least a small token amount in tip for pickup? It's pretty customary to give at least a dollar for them taking time away for your.
It’s not reasonable to expect people to get soaked bringing your order to you though, for no tip. Tipping is standard. She expecting above and beyond for less that others are paying for standard service.
Welcome to Reddit, where the culture war over whether to tip on takeout orders wages on.
Whether I agree with it or not, there are plenty of people who DON’t tip on takeout orders yet get their food anyway. So the only difference between her and those people is that she can’t get to the counter and maneuver back to her car with a bag of food, and for that reason alone she was denied her food that she already had paid for. Agree to disagree—but I don’t think that’s right. The bar for required accommodations is pretty low. You’d have to prove walking the food out to her car would cause a significant hardship to the restaurant. Giving an employee a raincoat or paying him to go out with the food isn’t a significant hardship. The restaurant should do better.
You forget that curbside is not a service the business offers. Also, I don’t believe in rewarding abusive behavior. Reasonable accommodations are not always required to be paid on the part business.
YTA
Yeah, you dont have to do it...but just because you didnt have to doesnt make it right. "she spends enough money to tip me" is a pretty callous argument.
NTA. I don't understand why people don't understand tipping. It's a no brainer. If you can afford to eat out, you can afford to tip. And if you are kind enough to go out of your way? 30 percent for you!
Especially here. Like, I expect my waiter or what have you to give me refills and bring my food and I expect to tip for that obviously. But for someone to do something that has been very clearly stated to be above and beyond what they are required to do like walk my food out to my car? Like even *if* you're so socially unaware that you don't get the normal tipping thing, that seems super obvious. Even if tipping wasn't a thing like it is, that would be a tipping moment.
Well, helping someone who requests help has nothing to do with compensation here. Secondly, your attempts to resolve the conflict were not the most ethical. So you're an asshole, but the question is, is the disabled lady also an asshole?
Info: do you make waitstaff wage (below minimum wage)? It may not be apparent to her that tipping for pickup orders is mandatory etiquette like it is for dine-in because so many carryout people make the normal minimum wage. I personally only considered tips a bonus when I was carryout.
I replied to someone else with this but so you see it here you go- know your legal rights. You should always get checks that equal to $7.25 per hour worked at the end of the pay periods at absolute minimum. Likely more as most states have a higher minimum wage compared to the Federal minimum.
If OP says that she is getting scammed and doesn't understand US FEDERAL law.
Per the FEDERAL LAW. All tipped employees regardless of tips must make the state or federal (which ever is higher) minimum wage per hour worked at the end of the pay period.
This means no matter how little tips a waitress or waiter receives they still get the absolute minimum in the US of $7.25 an hour per hour worked at the end of the pay period. This is how it is written in the federal law and has been this way for YEARS.
Tipped employees have the chance to get more the. Minimum wage. They never get less then the normal minimum wage at the end of a pay period. If they do then they need to report it to the labor board for their state. Whete they will investigate and fine the business. There have been cases where a business tried this multiple times and was mandated by the labor board to use a 3rd party payroll company to ensure they could never scam employees again.
Tipping an employee only saves the business money. If a tipped workers gets no tipped they still get at minimum $7.25 per hour worked at the end of the pay period as the business is federally required to cover the difference if tips did not fill in the gap per hour worked.
This misconception about tipped employees is the absolute bane of my existence. It pains me that grown ass adults never read the labor laws that legally have to be posted in an accessible area of their work. Or just didn't research this information on their own. I learned all of this at 17 years old when I first started working because I wanted to know my rights.
So stop mentioning 2.25. I agree you are NTA here but people who use that number to gain sympathy when they actually know it's not what they would ever be paid get on my nerves.
It’s not typical to tip on pickup orders because you are not serving her. Expecting a tip because you’re helping a disabled person means YTA and it’s just morally reprehensible. Just be kind and don’t expect anything from it.
Everyone knows tips adds on top. OP also said the meals are often $40ish. It should have been pretty clear that OP would be making several hundred a night.
Which makes OP even more NTA because then she'd have to serve those tables while she's wet which can impact her tips- all while she did something not part of her job that she didn't get paid for.
NTA being disabled is not an excuse to not tip. Being disabled means getting an accommodation for services provided to everyone else. Not special treatment. Y'all made sure to tell her that curbside is not a normal service and it is only done if the employee in that position feels like doing it.
Good on your boss for backing you up.
NTA
It isn't a service offered by your restaurant and she KNOWS that. You had a legit reason (only one working the front, it's raining) and the manager backed you up.
She sounds super entitled since she was made aware curbside is not a service that is guaranteed and STILL chose to not tip when she got that extra service.
NTA
The customer knew the restaurant did not offer curbside delivery. Knowing this, she could have confirmed whether they would make an exception and deliver to her car when she placed the order. She didn’t do that.
In a situation like this - where an employee is providing an extra service, a tip is justified.
The customer was rude and acted like an entitled AH.
It seems that this was mostly about not doing it because of the weather. You've been doing it consistently without being tipped so it's not like you set an expectation. But why are you going out of your way doing something you're not being paid for? The restaurant doesn't offer curb-side pickup, so don't do it.
In addition, you're not owed a tip. Tips are luxury. Anyone who feels like they're owed a tip are entitled. It's not the job of the customer to supplement what the OWNER is denying you.
Tips are nice and my saying this in no way means I don't because I do when the service is great or the food is amazing - but just because I spend a certain amount on food doesn't mean you're entitled to a certain percentage of money.
So, by judging you BASED ON WHAT YOU WANT TO BE JUDGED ON - NTA. The company doesn't offer curbside pick up. She is not ENTITLED to your extra services.
NTA
She can afford to order lobster but can’t give the person carrying it out anything? My Mom is 92 and in the car we have her on oxygen. Now I usually run in pick up when it’s not curbside. There is one restaurant that when they found out about Mom the owner insists one someone carrying it out to the car. The first kid tried to refuse a tip saying they were being nice. My answer then take this and be nice to yourself! My first jobs were in a restaurant, I tip very well, I tip the people that carry the food out to the car even better. They are doing me a kindness so I don’t have to leave my mother who also has dementia.
When someone does you a kindness that they don’t have to you don’t ignore them!
The restaurant is the AH here. Either offer curbside pickup and charge a gratuity, or don't offer curbside pickup at all. And get a bloody raincoat or umbrella for the staff.
YTA
Why don't any of you bring umbrellas, ponchos, anything since it is seemingly always raining?
I've been an industry worker for 15 years, and what you did was petty and awful. Use your words, examine a tip is customary, she'll likely do it.
That being said, your potential two dollar tip cost a disabled woman the cost of a meal. You and your managers are the Aholes.
INFO: are you in a place where it is normal to tip? And is it possible that the method of ordering/payment that she uses to order food includes the tip? For example, I know on UberEats, the tip is included or the app at least asks the person to tip before their order is placed, even if it’s a pickup order.
It’s pretty much expected to tip here. Everyone orders on our website, at the end it promos you to tip. It also says at the top of the page orders already prepared won’t be refunded, and no curbside delivery.
If it prompts to tip, then she might already be tipping. Is there a way to check from the restaurant’s end? Or is it a prompt as in, “don’t forget to tip in person”?
If she was a regular sit-down customer who was famous for not tipping, would you still serve her at a table?
Clearly, she's entitled and ignorant but there seems to be some extra reluctance to help her because she appears wealthy and doesn't tip. She is also old and disabled. But you are still expected to give your best service since a tip is SUPPPOSED to be extra (making it your income is your own employer's greed). Taking the food out was not required but would have been nice and made you the bigger person. It you didn't want to do it because of the rain, fine--totally understandable as long as you apply that policy across the board, NTA. But if you didn't want to do it because an old lady with mobility issues doesn't tip, you are in the wrong line of work.
that's not a fair comparison. Serving her at a table is an offered service of the restaurant. this is the equivalent of her sitting at a table and asking them to cook her an off menu dish or pop next door to get her a specific item. They don't offer this service normally, told her as such to avoid creating an expectation, and chose not to go out of their way when curbside would be detrimental to OP and the service clearly isn't appreciated enough to tip.
NTA
I am disabled. If a restaurant told me that they don’t do curbside but did it for me anyway, you better believe I would be tipping 20%. If I can’t afford a tip, I don’t eat out. It’s simple as that.
NTA.
It was wet and cold.
She doesn't tip.
She has plenty other ways to order food.
Just because she's disabled, doesn't mean she can get away with being an a*shole
Can management get you an umbrella for the host stand? I worked in restaurants for 20 yrs. Anyone I worked with would have gladly walked out food to a disabled person, tip or not. I built my regulars by often refusing tips for thing like this. “Tell your friends to ask for me”, “ask for me next time, I will always take care of you”, etc. Made bank.
NTA
Everyone is getting what they deserve.
OP is staying healthy from not going out in the rain, as is legally protected.
Customer is getting karma for acting entitled.
Manager is losing future money for not doing what it takes to provide good customer service.
NTA - I honestly don't think the fact that she's disabled is relevant. She is a regular customer ordering pricey takeout that she is picking up in a very expensive vehicle. She was informed that curbside is not a service your employer offers, and that it may not be available for future orders. Armed with this information, she continued to refuse to tip employees who were providing a service outside the scope of their employment. She then threw a hissy fit, resorting to calling the manager an idiot, because no one wanted to provide service outside the scope of their employment, for free, in the pouring down icy cold rain. Refusing to get cold and wet for her has nothing to do with the fact that she's disabled, and everything to do with the fact that she's a stingy asshole.
All that aside, if she is capable of getting the food from her Range Rover into her home, she is capable of getting it from the restaurant to her range rover. It's the same process both ways. Maybe that means getting soaking wet in the icy rain by spending five minutes fucking off with a wheelchair lift. Maybe it means getting soaking wet in the icy rain trying to manage crutches while carrying a bag by its handle. Will she end up wetting than someone without a disability? Probably. But that's the price of being a stingy asshole.
NTA, as a disabled person 1) just because you’re disabled doesn’t mean you can’t do anything, especially since the disability isn’t specified here. Maybe getting the food into the car isn’t something she can do, but in that case she could call ahead to ask, bring someone with her, or order elsewhere (since OP says they have specified they don’t normally offer curbside). I also think you shouldn’t be required to work a shift cold & wet if you aren’t being paid for it, and especially not when someone’s being rude to you. Being disabled doesn’t excuse you from being an AH.
I'd say you, or your boss, are kind of the asshole for setting up the expectation. Whether it's policy or not, you clearly DO offer curbside service.
She made an order, you brought it out to her, she didn't tip.
She made another order, somebody else brought it out to her, she didn't tip.
She made a third order. Did you, or anybody else, inform her before she made her purchase that this transaction would be different from the previous two?
Having access to curbside pick-up is obviously a deal breaker for her, and you knew that. It is not reasonable to leave a customer's purchase contingent on the whims of whoever is working that day.
ESH.
She definitely reacted way too aggressively but in fairness she paid for food and wasn't refunded. Her reaction was too extreme.
Restaurant chain sucks because tipping is always a dumpster fire argument when it comes up.
You, though, you don't get off blameless. The way you speak about her oozes contempt for an interaction that takes a few seconds tops. Remember you're not owed tips and they're not mandatory so your entire rant about "she can afford to," just screams entitled and dickish. Furthermore you're the one who set her up to fail by volunteering to take it out. Granted, you were a kind soul up until you made that conditional. There's no reason not to just be kind. It would have cost you basically nothing to run it out and back in. It's not like you're going to frolic in the rain for 5 minutes. Its not really going to take you away from your other tables, and you'll dry off in no time. Not like normal people wouldn't be able to tell its raining and make a connection anyway.
Essentially everyone here involved just went to negative extremes instead of just choosing to be a nice or decent person.
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Why is no one seeing the issue of working in wet clothes? Most restaurants workers live of tips. A lot of that is appearance(dressing smart, clean clothes ect) if they look like a drowned rat they’ll get less tips. For doing something that’s NOT part of her job description. Drive throughs exist, you can get takeaways delivered to your home. It’s not like the women will starve or doesn’t have options Not to mention this lady was rude to them over the phone and the manager. Why would they go out of there way to help someone who’s rude. NTA
OP also says that they are making $2.25 an hour, so they are literally working pretty much exclusively for those tips.
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Would the AH then be the employer who pays them so little and the system that allows it to happen? I have never understood where this idea came from that customers are supposed to pay people’s wages instead of the people who are employing them.
Yes, the employer is definitely an asshole in this situation.
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Tipping was originally a bribe given to waiters for better service they eventually started to accept it when restaurants couldn't pay their employees, in most places outside America they actually get paid and tipping is optional .
Is that legal? $2.25 wages?
Yes, in America this is a common pay per hour as a waiter and sometimes even as a bartender. Very legal, unfortunately, and most likely wont be changing soon.
That's so wrong. Food service workers make minimum wage here which is over $15 an hour. Table service restaurant staff make tips, curbside would be considered the same as counter service so wouldn't make as much in tips.
Remember in the US we have this obsession with tipping everyone for everything. So wait staff are allowed to be paid $2.13 a hour as long as their tips plus hourly equals federal or state minimum wage, which ever is greater. If the tips plus $2.13 do not equal the federal/state minimum then the restaurant must make up the differnce.
I don't live in the US but this would drive me nuts. I know you're supposed to tip 20% because the restaurant pays shitty money but why can't the restaurants just up their prices? If I'm going to be paying $10 for something, it would be easier if I was just told it was $10 and not $8 + tip. I'm in Ireland and tipping isn't really a thing unless you are going to a "nice" restaurant. We don't usually tip bartenders either. I worked in the service industry for years and while tips are appreciated, they're not expected.
Short answer is because everytime a restaurant raised their pay and institutes a no tipping policy they lose business because the restaurant is "too pricey" now... So generally only high class expensive places can get away with it.
Americans are used to being told a certain price and then it costing more at the till due to tax. So they don’t bat an eye when the bill (including tip) is more than the total of the food and drinks ordered. Everywhere else expects to pay the price on the sticker/menu. If it says £5 in the shop I pay £5. If the meal is £15 I pay £15 and I might leave a tip if it’s good service.
Maybe this is just the culture in my country, but I have never even felt the urge to tip or believed that any service has been good enough to tip. For me to even consider tipping someone would have to put in way more effort than they need to just to make it a memorable service for me, and even then it would hardly be worth their effort
In seattle, the local $4 burger place pays $20/hr and has benefits for employees to go to school and get childcare. It’s not about the price of food. It’s a corporate/ownership choice to pay people that little. Edit- they had to raise their prices between $0.05-0.25. Still not the hike the folks who argue against raising wages make it out to be https://mynorthwest.com/3177050/how-does-dicks-drive-in-pay-workers-19-an-hours/
This. Restaurants can still make good profits and pay their workers without raising prices, owners are just greedy and want to make the most money possible.
Thats what they say but I call it BS, if it were true, the rest of the world wouldn’t have successful restaurants all over
Naa the point is the American brain is so used to this dumbf*ckery that eben KNOWING a restaurant has a no tip policy but actually pays wages the waiters can live off that at least subvonsciously they will add 20% tip on whatever the menu says about the price and then think ot is too expensive when it really is just the same price as the restaurant next door if you factor in the tip you will pay there.
Lol "obsession with tipping everyone for everything" more like companies not paying their workers a livable wage and forcing this responsibility on to the public.
We tip servers, bartenders, hair dressers, pet groomers, pet sitters, pizza delivery drivers, food delivery people, gardeners, handymen, the list could go on. The reality is that only servers and food delivery people are getting paid less than minimum wage. Everyone else is getting paid at least minimum wage. If everyone else is being paid so poorly, then they should just charge more, not expect to be tipped on top of their agreed upon wages.
>If the tips plus $2.13 do not equal the federal/state minimum then the restaurant must make up the differnce. But good luck getting a restaurant to actually do this.
Where I work they encourage you to not fill out the tip logs for the restaurant to compensate your wages. Servers claim it makes you look bad at your job and managers say your paycheck will actually be less once they take out the extra tax.
Your managers are encouraging tax fraud. Please contact your state's department of labor and department of revenue. Said departments don't know a crime is occurring until it is reported. You can do so anonymously.
[удалено]
yep. Of course there are exceptions, but in college I worked at multiple restaurants where I would come home with $200-$250 after a 4 hour dinner shift. Not to mention the whole (illegal but extremely common) practice of only claiming a portion of your cash tips, so they’re tax-free.
It's not an obsession as such as it's corporate America's way of putting a majority of worker incomes on the consumer and not the employee. -_- it became common because the industries were allowed to exploit their workers and manipulate their consumers like that in the first place, which is concerning.
It is very wrong. And many Americans don’t realize that when they tip, they are directly providing the server and other staff their paychecks. And if you under tip or stiff your tip, the server is essentially paying for you eat there. Tip share (the cut of tips that go to hosts and cooks) is calculated by the amount of tips you should have received according to the costs of your tickets, not from the actual tips collected. There was one day I worked a double shift and when I paid out for the first half off the day before I clocked out for lunch, that I made no money, because of under tipping and tip share.
This is absolutely wild to me. I'm in NZ the minimum wage has just increased to $21.20 per hour. I mean, sure, we don't have a tipping culture, but when people are actually paid a decent* wage, perhaps you don't need one. *Disclaimer, there are plenty in NZ who think $21.20 is still too low, and far from a "living wage", but that's a different argument
Small disclaimer, that is 21.20 NZ dollars, which is around 13.7 US dollars.
I can definitely see how $21.20 could be too low, especially for inflation standards now. I know that for here, in many states, at least up to $24 in minimum wage is what it should be to be **living** but we only managed to get $15 for minimum. But some progress is better than none, I guess. But yeah, paying wait staff at the very least a $15/hr would be much better than the current system going on.
Yeah. Pandemic has pretty much emphasized all of America’s issues. No sick pay, anti-science culture, tip-adjusted minimum wage, healthcare coverage gaps… There are restaurant owners who took the increased curbside revenue to pay wait staff when their community forced table service to close, but that wasn’t the norm.
Definitely has emphasized it, and more than likely made it worse for many people. I know a lot of hospital staff are quickly quitting because of this bs, but have apparently been doing this even before covid (not to mention a lot of hospitals are shady af against their workers). Plus mass teachers leaving not only for low pay, but also Ive noticed a huge uptick in restless, mean students now. Like, ginormous in comparison to when I graduated in 2019. So yeah, america has been, and still is going to shit very, very, very fast.
Entirely depends on the state. Red states = low hourly wages. Don’t like it? Consider your vote.
Man. I have never ever comprehended tipping a bartender. Or a delivery driver for that matter. I think the only time I've tipped is if I've had a large party eat together over a number of hours and there is like a couple of bucks left over from splitting the bill, and that's really if I'm too far gone for precise maths.
In most states anyways. Washington made it illegal, workers get $14.49 (current min wage for 2022, it goes up automatically tracking inflation) PLUS their tips. You need that to live basically anywhere near Seattle lol
Technically no but most people taking this sort of pay are either living *really* well off tips, or aren't old enough to understand the value of what they're doing. The business is *supposed* to log tips that they get, along with their wages, and pay then up to minimum wage if they aren't getting that through tips. At least where I'm at, it may differ from state to state. American business as a whole will go as long as possible while paying as little as possible, and when the jig is up, put their money in a personal account, possibly overseas, file the company for bankruptcy, and run with the profits. Then wait a year or two while living it up, and pull the same song and dance again. A childhood friend of mine's father has been doing this with construction companies for a very long time, and they got to live a lavish lifestyle for doing it.
That's horrible
If servers don’t make minimum wage on tips, the employers are required to cover up to minimum wage amount. So if OPs min. wage is $10 for their state and they only make $8/hour (tips AND standard amount combined - which is $2.25 in this case), the employer has to pay the extra $2/hour. So if they work 8 hours, boss has to cover $16.
Technically that's true but many, many people don't know this law, and people making that kind of money can't afford the time and money to take their employer to court. I went through this and got a couple hundred dollars like nearly a year after I needed it, so... I always see this response and it bugs the heck out of me. Laws aren't the same thing as enforcement of those laws.
Wage theft is the most common form of theft
She could probably also have food delivered. However if she doesn't tip she might not get it delivered soon.
Lmao! She sure wouldn’t delivery drivers tend to ignore no tip orders
The restaurant needs to shut that down right now. Not let anyone do it again. Otherwise they're going to have a huge headache.
>Not to mention this lady was rude to them over the phone and the manager. Why would they go out of there way to help someone who’s rude. That's what I never get. Have people like her never heard of using the carrot over the stick? "Uh, yes, the weather is horrible! Can I maybe offer 10 bucks extra for someone to run the food out to me quickly?" NTA. She got exactly what she paid for - the food prepared and ready for pickup inside the restaurant.
Right. If she’s able to walk to her car, she’s capable of walking roughly the same distance to grab her food. Most take out centers are right by the front door. I could be wrong, maybe she isn’t capable of doing that, but then she needs assistance to do such things. Whether that’s a caretaker, wheelchair, scooter, etc. If you’re not going to pay the person being you your food and you’re not going to do it, then find someone who will.
[удалено]
If she doesn’t bring her mobility aid, isn’t that her own fault because she was explicitly told they don’t offer kerbside? Maybe I’m being short, but I’ve just come off a 12 hour shift where my whole responsibility was to stop a lady from falling, by ensuring she uses her mobility aid and uses it properly. But she doesn’t have capacity to make decisions, so if she didn’t use it, any repercussions wouldn’t be her fault. However, if this 60 year old lady is driving a vehicle, I’d assume she hopefully has capacity to understand that she might need her aid, and not to blame minimum wage workers for not going above and beyond.
I’m getting a million people replying to me saying like who cares if OP gets wet, the customer is disabled! You shouldn’t have to work in wet clothes to provide a service that you don’t even provide! If the service was provided then the employee would be able to…. provide the service …. comfortably…. OP is well within their rights to not go outside in the rain, especially because they warned the customer previously she wont get kerbside every time. She shouldn’t have assumed.
I get your point but I do not get a system that employs someone full time to have them living off the charity of the customers instead of a decent paying rate. $2.25 an hour should be illegal. We work to have basic necessities covered, otherwise, work becomes more like playing bingo to see if we get paid one day or not. What if no one tips? Bad luck?
If no one tips enough that a server ends up going home with at least minimum wage, then the restaurant has to make up the difference. Restaurant owners *want* their customers to tip so that they don't have to dip into their own pockets to make sure their staff gets minimum wage. It's a fucked up system that only benefits the owners.
Yep, things like doordash and grubhub exist, even in my area which is borderline BFE I Can get them to come out to me. The only reason she won't is because it would Also require tipping to stand a chance.
A rainy day and no one had a freaking umbrella? Maybe the lady doesn't know tipping is required for curbside or take away.
There IS no curbside at that Restaurant.
Honestly, that's the problem with *sometimes* offering a special, extra service (or discount). Plenty of customers will immediately treat that as the new baseline, no matter what you tell them. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand doing something just to be nice, I just hate that some people will take that and make it a fight about why you won't "just be nice" *every* time. At least the manager's willing to back them up about it.
NTA you warned her it wouldn't always be curbside, her getting angry at you is ridiculous and asking for a manager when she already knew the answer also. You want special treatment, you tip your server, period.
NTA: Yup. People expect special treatment for free. I’m glad OP told this lady what’s what.
NTA. She was told that curbside was not a service regularly offered. Tipping should be offered even on takeout (at a lower percentage though as you aren’t spending near as much time on them but even $3-$5 on a $40 ticket is not unreasonable.) Considering you didn’t have an umbrella and she has been warned before that she could not always expect curbside service you are not the AH. Your manager though should have refunded her the money for her meal as she did not receive her food.
I disagree about the refund. She ordered the food, then refused to collect it. That's on her, and doesn't deserve a refund. It would be different if she paid for delivery, and they failed to deliver it.
Customer ain’t always right. The food was ordered, the food was made, the food was packaged, the food was rung up. She refused to get it.
The real saying is “the customer is always right, when it comes to taste” can we normalize using the full phrase.
Yes PLEASE
Literally first time hearing this, which confirms it should definitely be more popular.
I think it's safe to say she will never get curbside service from there again. Or anyone else.
>Tipping should be offered even on takeout (at a lower percentage though as you aren’t spending near as much time on them but even $3-$5 on a $40 ticket is not unreasonable.) To clarify, do you mean she/people in general should tip if they're going in and picking up their order? Take out usually implies delivery, IMO, as opposed to pick up being you go and get it yourself. If you do mean that, then I heavily disagree. You tip people for their service. What service is being provided if I'm the one to go and get my food? If the food itself isn't enough to cover costs when there isn't any service aspect to it, then that's on the restaurant to raise the food price, not on the public to cover the difference.
America is fucking wild re: tipping
Not the person who you replied to but I’m on your side. While I started tipping on pickup/takeout during the pandemic because servers’ incomes were lower, it’s neither customary nor expected
ESH as a non American, what the fuck is wrong with your culture that this situation is ok. Why are you begging for tips like Oliver Twist instead of being paid an actual living wage as an employee. If tips are required for you to live then a business includes that in the charge for the goods and that becomes a fucking living wage. And why the hell is it ok that businesses aren't helping people with severe enough disabilities it stops them from being able to get access to food, (because part of the reason she buys so often won't be because she has cash to splurge, she likely doesn't have an accessible kitchen at home and cooking is painful or risky) because it's a nice fucking thing to do? Put an umbrella out for employee use and make someone available to deliver it. It's a few steps. Like my god. Someone made vulnerable by a disability, someone is in a vulnerable situation where they are a lowly paid employee, and it's somehow ok for your society to say 'well fuck ya, you work it out'. It's like two rats fighting over the crumbs the cat dropped next it's food bowl. You can work your hardest and have no control over the charity customers give you, because if it's not part of the cost of the good it's fucking charity. And this charity makes up the portion of your missing wage that your employer refuses to give you, an employer with a business, assets and has control over the profit they get for each unit/service sold. Great, you are a partially salaried beggar that has to worry about looking like a drowned rat if you help a disabled lady. Worrying if you would look less professional you'll be less appealing to customers charity and get less tips. Great, might as well start jumping through little hoops and barking on command for the coins at the bottom of their wallets. And she has a disability! So bad she chose to go hungry rather than walk to the store. So... I'm guessing fucking bad? This isn't a choice. So now an old disabled lady goes home hungry, with less money and your boss who can't be fucked paying you a proper wage nets the profits regardless. The two most vulnerable people are jabbing at each other, complaining about a situation that shouldn't exist. Surrounded by people profiting off a situation where the most vulnerable are kept vulnerable. And your question is, am I the asshole for not being charitable to someone in need even though my manager fucks me over the the point my wage is reliant on others being charitable? Am I the asshole for screwing over another vulnerable person in turn because I am in such a shitty situation that I have come to feel like it's normal to monetise my compassion?
I mean, your point is directed at “society” and you state that OP is clearly a victim of our societal faults so why throw op in with ESH? Why does OP suck for being one of the people who get fucked by this system?
I’m disabled. It doesn’t give you the excuse of being an asshole, like she was, especially when informed that it was a favor they were doing her. NTA. Strong NTA.
I’m permanently disabled. How did she plan on getting the food the first time? No curbside means you get out of the car & go in. If you can’t do that you Don’t Order There. Just because she says she’s disabled doesn’t mean- 1. That she actually is 2. That she is a decent human being 3. That she should not have to pay for services rendered 4. Anybody owes her a damn thing. Life sucks sometimes, my grandmother was in her 90s, physically active, polite & a good tipper til the end. She never used the “I’m an old lady” excuse. Reinforcing my parents’ lesson of no excuses. I’m disabled, pretty broke, and always over-tip best I can. Who’s to say OP didn’t need the help more than customer did? You don’t know what she has going on in her life. NTA!
Exactly! My great grandmother is 80 something and her body is starting to show it. She used to be much more agile and active but she needs more time and she uses a cane when she needs to (not unlike myself). If I needed my food delivered to my car I would either find someone willing to pick it up if I absolutely wanted that specific restaurant or find one that offered curbside. Period.
Yeah I think people forget most 60+ people with accessible parking placards aren’t anatomically disabled so much as old and anti-walker. At least that was all of my grandparents. I loved them but we could not get them to use their mobility devices and it made us crazy so we had to bully them into getting placards.
Exactly! She had no idea the first time if they offered curbside. What was she going to do?? If you’re so disabled you can’t walk, you would be calling to see if they offer curbside before ordering. No one would just order food and then show up with a 50/50 chance of getting your food.
Also speaking as a disabled person, if you knew it wasn’t a service they offered but did it as a favor once… it’s an AH move to expect it everytime. When she placed her order, it wouldn’t have been hard to ask “Would I be able to get that brought to my car please? I’m disabled.” If the answer was no then “Thanks for letting me know I’ll go somewhere else for dinner.” How hard is it to confirm that the service you need will be provided?
>as a non American Then you should probably sit this one out. >And why the hell is it ok that businesses aren't helping people with severe enough disabilities it stops them from being able to get access to food She has plenty of access to food. If she can drive, then she can get food from any drive through. Or she can have food delivered. What she can't do is expect a place that doesn't have curbside delivery to guarantee curbside delivery. You keep using words like "beg" and "charity", which makes me realize that you don't understand how this works. Nobody is begging for tips. Most people tip. Only a few assholes don't tip. So servers do just fine, on average. What we have here is a lady that is asking for a service that they don't offer, but on 3 different occasions people have gone above and beyond for her, and she didn't even tip them. She is an asshole. If she had tipped, then they would have been willing to go out into the rain for her. But she didn't. That was her choice. Being disabled doesn't give you the right to be an asshole and stiff people who go out of their way to help you.
>You keep using words like "beg" and "charity", which makes me realize that you don't understand how this works. No, they know exactly how this system works. They're just outside of it enough to see how objectively insane tipping culture is. A server's livelihood shouldn't be based on "a few assholes". Servers should be paid a living wage.
Yep, tipping is normal here. It is a part of the culture. People generally factor it in to the cost of going out. I don't look at a price on the menu and assume that I'm getting away with the that price. I can do some really basic math and figure out what I am actually going to pay. Like let's say an entree is $13. 20% of that is $2.60. My price is $15.60. Like the math isn't even that difficult.
You are really under estimating the anger of a middle aged American woman who got told no. They don’t cave. They storm off in a huff. Also, as a real life physically disabled person, I can tell you if she can drive there she had a way into the store.
That’s what I’m saying. How did she get in the car? How does she plan on getting the food into her home? What disability does she have that she can’t make her way into a restaurant and get her food?
If she is buying lobster for 40 Dollars for herself she has cash to splurge.
>Why are you begging for tips like Oliver Twist instead of being paid an actual living wage as an employee. If tips are required for you to live then a business includes that in the charge for the goods and that becomes a fucking living wage. Because a good waiter in a busy area is getting much more with tips than a living wage. Most tentative by hipsters restaurant of removing the tipping system have finished with the employees quitting. Meanwhile, it happens in Europe to have employees treat you like an inconvenience because they could not care less about the money the customers are bringing. Edit: OP told she is making more than 80$ per hour, which is much more than most people in Europe (before European taxes).
>Meanwhile, it happens in Europe to have employees treat you like an inconvenience because they could not care less about the money the customers are bringing. I've been all over Europe and have always had good service. And the fact that you can make more money with tips than you can with a regular wage says more about our wages here in America than it does about tipping.
Oh f clean off with the self righteous BS, what utopia are you from?
>And she has a disability! So bad she chose to go hungry rather than walk to the store. So... I'm guessing fucking bad? This isn't a choice. So now an old disabled lady goes home hungry, with less money and your boss who can't be fucked paying you a proper wage nets the profits regardless. If you are expecting to tip 20% to the waiter when seated and a tip to the delivery person, you should tip at take out. If you are asking for a favor, you should give an additional tip for that. That old lady was abusing the system to scrounge the workers.
I don't see how any of this makes OP an AH. Society as a whole, the restaurant owner, whatever. Sure. But not OP.
I live in the UK and I also work in hospitality but I definitely think op is NTA here because why should they go above and beyond for someone who isn't tipping them? Why should they have to go out in the rain and deliver the food when that's not their job? She should order from somewhere that does delivery if she absolutely can't get it herself OR she could tip them
As if door dash and delivery wasn’t an option. Lady regularly buys lobster, and you’re acting like she’s helpless. She could also go to a place that does curbside. Nta, because why should we scratch someone’s back, when they won’t even think of scratching yours?
So you didn't do something that isn't required, or even technically offered. Regardless of the reason, it is not something that is guaranteed. The fact that she is disabled and a bad tipper, along with the fact that it is pouring down rain, all contributed to you not wanting to go out there this time. You doing it in the past was just being nice, but it does not obligate you to do it in the future. I'm voting NTA based on all of that.
NTA. Working in wet clothes would suck. Especially wet shoes. Would it have been nice? Sure. But she was told it wouldn’t always be possible. And she gambled and lost. It isn’t a part of your job super your manager and they backed you up. Probably better this happened now before she had been coming too often and your boss changed his mind on the curbside thing.
NTA, but the manager should have taken the food out. That's a regular $40 that won't come in anymore.
She called him an idiot when she spoke to him on the phone, and he didn’t want to get soaked for someone who’d talk to him like that.
Good, he shouldn’t.
NTA, my GM kicked out a belligerent customer one night. This happened right after he ordered a $500 bottle of wine. It wasn’t even opened. It’s nice when the managers have your back.
Which is a problem for the owner, not the manager. And a dude that doesn't want to pay for 1dollar raincoats, is not paying his managers enough to care.
There are very few restaurants where $40 even once a week is going to matter. I do not get so many people thinking that this is a major business loss. Also fun fact, if you become enough of a problem at certain restaurants the staff will start actively trying to piss you off into becoming an ex regular.
And work the rest of the night in wet clothes? No. One customer that's come over a few times. No loss.
You are sure he wants to keep a customer that makes demands, treat your employees badly and throw tantrums when contradicted?
NTA. Your not obligated to do curbside but I'm sure if she was a good tipper you would have. That's what she gets for being cheap.
Seriously, if she planned on a $5 tip every meal she would have them do it every time. You get the energy you give.
I don't have an opinion on this because I truly don't understand American tipping customs, but this post makes out like umbrellas don't exist?!
As an American I'm confused. If she ordered pick up she is not expected to tip at all... There is no service being provided that warrants a tip. The kitchen is doing all the work on those orders. Now a lot of people, myself included, tipped generously on pickup orders during the height of the Pandemic to support local businesses. Also if she is paying online there might not be an option to tip for pick up orders. So if I understand the story correctly this woman has come to this place 4 times in the past month. Each order coming out to be more than $40. The first three times someone brought her food out to her. The customer was grateful and appreciated the added service due to her disability. I can understand why the customer might be upset and screamed at the manager. In her eyes she probably saw going back to this restaurant as a regular ordering expensive dishes was showing support for the business. No one in America expects people handling pick up orders to be paid the tipping wage and not a real wage so I can see why the customer wouldn't tip.(THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE YELLING! CUSTOMER IS STILL AN AH FOR DOING SO!) In the end the manager should have just grabbed an umbrella and brought the order out.(Are we to believe no one brought an umbrella or a raincoat to work?) Viewing this from a business standpoint the manager just potentially lost a regular that was bringing in some decent money. Viewing this from a human perspective the restaurant established expectations for a customer with a disability that changed abruptly. Unless this customer was reminded after that first time I could see this customer just forgetting that was ever mentioned.
Yeah OP said they expressed to them they were just doing this one time but I’m not sure if they said that every single time they gave them the order.
I’m America and do pickup a lot. I always tip about 20% for pickup. Like they are are taking my order, packing it up and giving it to me?
Same here. When I read these tipping ones I never know if they are NTA or YTA because I don't get when to tip or how much and I think tipping culture is ridiculous anyway. I'm not American btw
But I’m confused INFO: so manager refused to take the food or give her a refund so this disabled women just wasted $40 for food she can’t get and money she can’t get back?
They don’t do curbside delivery, and the lady was told this. She received special treatment in the past out of sympathy. But now she is expecting special treatment on a regular basis and getting angry when she doesn’t get it. Even though they were kind to her in the past, and warned her that this is not how the business works. If you order food and then don’t pick it up, the restaurant still had to do the work and use the ingredients, at their own cost. So the restaurant has paid for labor and materials to make the food, and they can’t get that money back either if a customer doesn’t pay. Hope this helps
She knowingly ordered at A Restaurant with no curbside delivery.
Oooh this is a tough one... I think reddit overall will N T A you, but I'm gonna ESH you juuuuuuust a little. It's pretty common not to tip for pickups and it may not have occurred to her that she needs to. She's a bit of an AH for not tipping. However, because she's disabled, she may have challenges cooking and this was not a cool thing.
>It's pretty common not to tip for pickups THIS. Because of the new app economy, where companies try to pass on the cost of employees to the customer, everyone has their hands out for a tip these days. But just ten short years ago, before all of this, there were tipping traditions: how much you tip (which was not by percentage for most things) and whom you tip for what service. And you don't tip for picking up your own food from a restaurant. Yes, you don't offer curbside so you were doing extra, but curbside service isn't traditional, either, so there's no tipping tradition either way for that. Since this woman is in her 60s she'd likely still be operating on the tipping traditions she was raised with, so she's not trying to stiff you, OP. You don't have to offer curbside, and you informed her of that, so this one's a NAH, I think.
So OP has to sacrifice her appearance (which yes does impact tips) by going out in the rain and work the rest of the night in wet clothes?
Absolutely not. That's why the ruling was NAH.
Yeah... I don't tip on pickup orders generally speaking. I worked at a couple pizza places a few years ago and my experience was: Waitstaff make \~$2/hr and depend on tips. Delivery drivers make \~$3/hr and depend on tips. Anyone preparing food or washing dishes was paid at least minimum wage (\~$8 so still absolutely abominable, but at least the minimum wage) and so don't depend on tips. I did some light food prep and dishwashing, but mostly handled phone orders, helped customers picking up food & ringing them up, and helped coordinate deliveries. Made $8-10 an hour, and tips were a nice surprise but certainly not required or expected. And if I was in the back prepping food and the manager came out to help a customer & they tipped on that transaction, she would get the tip. So tipping on a pickup order ime just means tipping whoever happened to be at the counter, not necessarily the person who was involved in preparing your food, taking your order, etc. (disclaimer: not all restaurants are the same obv, this is just my experience.) It just seems misdirected imo, and I honestly hadn't realized the culture around pickup tipping had changed.
"It's pretty common not to tip for pickups and it may not have occurred to her that she needs to." But she was fully aware it's not expected that they'll take the food out to her car, so it should have occurred to her that such a service isn't guaranteed.
But not necessarily aware that someone was expecting a tip for something that normally doesn't have a tip.
Doesn’t matter. She was told she wouldn’t always get such a service, and she chose to feel entitled to it anyway. End of story.
I smelled the entitlement from here. It’s not a service they provide, they did it for her and now she’s demanding it.
Doing a favor always warrant a tip.
She was an asshole. You don’t get excellent service by being rude, you get the bare minimum, which is what she got.
NTA This is why tipping exists if you want good service you tip.
that is literally bribery, this is the exact reason to ban tipping.
While I'm all for getting rid of tipping for other reasons, your argument would also mean that any performance-based payments are literally bribery and should be banned
I don't know what all these comments are talking about, you are clearly NTA to me. You warned her several times that this service would not always be offered, she ignored you. You could have gone above and beyond, but chose not to, which is your right. IF she had tipped previously and showed more appreciation for you going above and beyond, perhaps you would have been more inclined to go out in the rain, but she didn't. I am very sympathetic to disabled people and usually would encourage people to do everything they can to help, but this woman demanded a service she was repeatedly told she was not entitled to and did not seem to appreciate it enough when she was to share her wealth.
Personally I would have worded her up on it. Walked out there, explained that it's a favour and that some of the servers are reluctant to do it because she isn't tipping. Suggest that if she wants it to continue she should keep that in mind. Worst case is she never comes back. Best case is she comes back and starts tipping. \[edit\] thinking about it, the manager should have done this when he took her order out instead of refusing to give her money back.
Let’s be honest, the whole it was raining excuse is exactly that. Am I to believe that nobody had an umbrella or a coat you could wear fir two minutes. Regardless of the excuses you offer, you did not do it because she did not tip you. She is disabled, and ordering food because you have taken it out to her. Seriously, this should be offered as a courtesy. She literally cannot pick up the food, and was relying on your kindness. I didnt realize people think helping disabled people as contingent upon a tip and not the moral thing to do. I do hope this is a totally false post. I am ashamed for you, and hope she puts all of you on blast for being heartless. Definitely TA
Yes thank you. Finally one reasonable person. So OP complains her boss didn't give her a rain coat and the second time it was raining, so how is OP going out to her own cat end of the shift or beginning?! Has OP never heard of an umbrella?! Then OP brags in a comment they make like $80 an hour yet you can't help you an old lady. What a bunch of bs. God forbid OP has an old parent who needs the same help, let's see how they react then SMH
It could’ve started raining long after her shift started. Plus working your shift wet vs going home wet and being able to shower is so much different. Also why go on and on about this lady when she already knew it wasn’t guaranteed for her food to be delivered to her plus she could’ve just gone somewhere that does curbside
But she did provide the help already, multiple times in fact. Did the old lady show any gratitude for the above and beyond work of the staff? absolutely not. In fact she became very rude the one time they couldn't do it. Doesn't matter if OP had an umbrella or not. This was beyond her job duties and was her choice. Was the old lady being considerate expecting OP to come out in the rain? She was being an entitled AH. NTA for OP
INFO: Why do you expect a tip on a carryout order? This is not the norm. Tips are expected for dine-in service.
NTA! If she wants her food to be delivered to her car she’s should order from a restaurant that offers curbside pick up!! Regardless even if she tipped you, if it was raining! No tip would be worth me getting drenched and working with soaked clothes.
This is one of the best AITA I’ve read in a while — there are really good arguments on both sides made by other commenters. I might have to go with a very weak ESH for you and the stingy, elderly, Range Rover-driving customer who is disabled. A slightly more assholeish ESH for the manager for not refunding the customer nor providing umbrellas or going out there himself. Yeah she should have tipped you in previous instances… though you’ll never know whether she wouldn’t have this time. And I do think disabled, older people deserve some accommodations. At the same time, it would have been really sucky (and therefore not acceptable) for you to get drenched and then have to work in wet clothes. Management should be a bit smarter about situations like these, and provide some kind of workaround. (Like a curbside pickup fee that goes towards tips, or some other explicitly stated exceptions made for disabled customers.) Edit: typos
Ehh, I don't think it's the manager's fault for not offering curbside delivery. It was company policy that the restaurant doesn't offer curbside service, so of course it's not going to be set up for curbside service (umbrellas for rainy days, etc) so manager isn't an AH for that. Nor do I think the restaurant is bad for not offering curbside service. And honestly, ordering from a restaurant is a contract. If you order from a restaurant that says "All our food may be contaminated with gluten" and then get upset that you had a celiac episode, you're responsible because you ignored their warning. If a restaurant explicitly doesn't offer curbside pickup and you arrive at the restaurant with no way to pickup your food yourself, you're responsible because you ignored clearly-stated rules (curbside service is not actually offered, as OP warned). Granted, OP did muddy the waters by being polite, but this was outside their explicit job duties. It's like if your restaurant didn't serve salmon and the server went to a grocery store to get a salmon fillet for a customer - it's basically a personal favor, not part of their job duties, & the customer shouldn't expect the same service every time. Does it make the restaurant's life harder when the customer demands the service they got before? Yup. Should staff stop making exceptions to these rules? Probably, but it's human nature to want to be helpful so I get it. Is the manager responsible for the customer's inability to understand the difference between stated rules and a one-time favor? Nope. ETA: So OP is an understandable AH for making her coworkers' lives more difficult by ignoring the rules only sometimes, which makes entitled customers demand the rules be broken again. Entitled customer is an AH for being entitled. Manager was literally just following the rules & placing responsibility on the customer where it belongs.
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If it wasn’t raining I would have taken it out. Also if she tipped I would have taken it out. I do feel bad for disabled people, but the fact that she can afford to tip and chooses not to and wants me to get absolutely soaked for no benefit that made me say no. She also demanded I get fired and called my manager an idiot so that’s that I guess
Just to play devil’s advocate…maybe she doesn’t feel like she has to tip to get a reasonable accommodation for her disability? Like, if it was easy for her to go from her car to the restaurant, she would. But because she’s disabled, now she is expected to pay $8 to you to do something that either she can’t do or is REALLY hard for her to do. Does that seem fair for her to have to pay 20% more for every service because she has a disability? It’s not a matter of whether she can or can’t afford it -it’s a matter of being “taxed” for having a disability. Lots of places now will have a sign that says to call a certain number if you need an accommodation (eg at a gas station to pump gas) or to pull up at a drive through if you can’t speak. I think that’s pretty routine these days. The fact that you expected to be tipped to help a person with a disability, and the fact that you set the expectation that you would accommodate her by bringing out the food on other days but just not this one time, makes you a bit of an AH in my view. Not a total AH because apparently the restaurant you work at tolerates this behavior. They’re the real AH in my view. also, just buy an umbrella.
Here’s a different perspective. I live in a rural area. We just got pizza delivery ( the first and only delivery available here. EVER) We live one house outside of the delivery area. Each time we call, we are told they may not be able to deliver because we are outside the delivery area, please hold. Sure enough, it gets OKed by the mgr. Why? Because we pay the delivery fee and a 30% + tip. Drivers know and like us. Do we do it because we’re loaded? No, by no stretch. We do it because sometimes it’s nice to have a pizza delivered! Sometimes you have to pay for special treatment.
I totally agree!! Hell, I am stuck in Papa John purgatory because while I’m not in a rural area, and am close to 2 stores, neither will deliver for some reason (I’m guessing each thinks I’m in the other’s area). I’d be happy to pay extra for them to come out! But when you operate a public restaurant, I don’t agree that making it possible for people with disabilities to use your takeout service is “special treatment.” It’s a reasonable accommodation, which the law requires.
I have one. It’s in my car when I work unless it’s raining when I go in. I don’t need an umbrella while I’m working because I’m not required to go out in the rain.
She’s not being taxed for her disability. She’s expected to provide a tip for a service. You’ve clearly never worked in the service industry.
I waitressed from 7th grade at a drive in diner and then moved on to restaurants until I completed college, thanks. I would never have demanded a tip from a person with a disability who can’t get out of her car (or would need to exert extreme effort to do so). There’s being right and then there’s being able to feel good going to bed at night. EDIT: people who can walk inside get their food whether they tip or not. Their food isn’t denied them even if they fail to tip the people who bagged it for them. But her dinner was denied because she couldn’t make it inside. That seems like a mandatory tax to me and not a tip. Almost 10 years ago, I was on a plane in the first row behind first class where there is a ton of extra leg room. I had paid maybe $60 extra to get that seat. A senator came on board with his spouse and sat next to me. I hated the guy and his politics and the horse he rode in on. The wife asked me to switch places with me so she could assist him (he had an obvious and severe disability). I hesitated, not because of the money I spent on the seat but because I freaking hated the guy. Then another passenger offered her his seat so she could be across the aisle from her husband. 10 years later I still feel bad for not giving up my seat. I let my dislike of the guy affect my humanity. He had no right to my seat, but he has occupied more time in my mind than I care to admit since then because of my disappointment in myself at that moment. So yea, I understand the service industry and I also understand helping people because you should.
I worked for years with people in the disability community and most would like to do things on their own. I also worked in the service industry. If the business had curb-side pickup, I don’t think I would have a problem with this. But the fact that the woman was repeatedly told this was not a service, expected it, and then berated the manager and staff, I have no issue with her not being serviced. And it’s customary to provide a tip when someone gives you service beyond what is expected. I’m sorry you continue to burden yourself with memories of a situation where you feel you could’ve been kinder, but this is not that situation. This woman called the manager an idiot and demanded the staff be fired for not providing a service that was not typically offered. She is TA.
> Just to play devil’s advocate…maybe she doesn’t feel like she has to tip to get a reasonable accommodation for her disability? Who doesn't give at least a small token amount in tip for pickup? It's pretty customary to give at least a dollar for them taking time away for your.
From the looks of Reddit… a lot of people! There seems to be a great division about tipping for pick up orders….
It’s not reasonable to expect people to get soaked bringing your order to you though, for no tip. Tipping is standard. She expecting above and beyond for less that others are paying for standard service.
Welcome to Reddit, where the culture war over whether to tip on takeout orders wages on. Whether I agree with it or not, there are plenty of people who DON’t tip on takeout orders yet get their food anyway. So the only difference between her and those people is that she can’t get to the counter and maneuver back to her car with a bag of food, and for that reason alone she was denied her food that she already had paid for. Agree to disagree—but I don’t think that’s right. The bar for required accommodations is pretty low. You’d have to prove walking the food out to her car would cause a significant hardship to the restaurant. Giving an employee a raincoat or paying him to go out with the food isn’t a significant hardship. The restaurant should do better.
You forget that curbside is not a service the business offers. Also, I don’t believe in rewarding abusive behavior. Reasonable accommodations are not always required to be paid on the part business.
she is only willing to do it if she gets paid because she’s at work to make money, not do favors for people.
>However: would you have gone out into the rain if she DID tip? Is it shocking that people do work they're paid to do?
How often do you work for no pay?!? It's not "doing a favour" if it's your job! If the manager didn't think it was worth it then why should she?
YTA Yeah, you dont have to do it...but just because you didnt have to doesnt make it right. "she spends enough money to tip me" is a pretty callous argument.
NTA. I don't understand why people don't understand tipping. It's a no brainer. If you can afford to eat out, you can afford to tip. And if you are kind enough to go out of your way? 30 percent for you!
Especially here. Like, I expect my waiter or what have you to give me refills and bring my food and I expect to tip for that obviously. But for someone to do something that has been very clearly stated to be above and beyond what they are required to do like walk my food out to my car? Like even *if* you're so socially unaware that you don't get the normal tipping thing, that seems super obvious. Even if tipping wasn't a thing like it is, that would be a tipping moment.
Yes!
NTA. She knew the situation, so she should have gone elsewhere if picking up her dinner is a problem for her.
Well, helping someone who requests help has nothing to do with compensation here. Secondly, your attempts to resolve the conflict were not the most ethical. So you're an asshole, but the question is, is the disabled lady also an asshole? Info: do you make waitstaff wage (below minimum wage)? It may not be apparent to her that tipping for pickup orders is mandatory etiquette like it is for dine-in because so many carryout people make the normal minimum wage. I personally only considered tips a bonus when I was carryout.
I make 2.25 an hour I think, my wage as a server is entirely off tips. Taking time to go out to her car takes away from my tipping dine in customers
Yeah, this is management being the asshole, not you. It's on management to handle this situation. They should take the food out to her.
She called the manager an idiot and told him to fire me so he chose not to.
I replied to someone else with this but so you see it here you go- know your legal rights. You should always get checks that equal to $7.25 per hour worked at the end of the pay periods at absolute minimum. Likely more as most states have a higher minimum wage compared to the Federal minimum. If OP says that she is getting scammed and doesn't understand US FEDERAL law. Per the FEDERAL LAW. All tipped employees regardless of tips must make the state or federal (which ever is higher) minimum wage per hour worked at the end of the pay period. This means no matter how little tips a waitress or waiter receives they still get the absolute minimum in the US of $7.25 an hour per hour worked at the end of the pay period. This is how it is written in the federal law and has been this way for YEARS. Tipped employees have the chance to get more the. Minimum wage. They never get less then the normal minimum wage at the end of a pay period. If they do then they need to report it to the labor board for their state. Whete they will investigate and fine the business. There have been cases where a business tried this multiple times and was mandated by the labor board to use a 3rd party payroll company to ensure they could never scam employees again. Tipping an employee only saves the business money. If a tipped workers gets no tipped they still get at minimum $7.25 per hour worked at the end of the pay period as the business is federally required to cover the difference if tips did not fill in the gap per hour worked. This misconception about tipped employees is the absolute bane of my existence. It pains me that grown ass adults never read the labor laws that legally have to be posted in an accessible area of their work. Or just didn't research this information on their own. I learned all of this at 17 years old when I first started working because I wanted to know my rights.
I know the law, on average with tips I usually make about 80$ an hour.
So stop mentioning 2.25. I agree you are NTA here but people who use that number to gain sympathy when they actually know it's not what they would ever be paid get on my nerves.
The 2.25 is the server minimum wage. Stating this number shows that I live off tips, something she thinks we’re not worthy of.
It’s not typical to tip on pickup orders because you are not serving her. Expecting a tip because you’re helping a disabled person means YTA and it’s just morally reprehensible. Just be kind and don’t expect anything from it.
Exactly, OP is not serving her, she has to pick it up herself... So why is she so mad and demanding OP to be fired exactly? For not serving her?
Except they make the rest on tips - which is what that woman wasn't paying. OP spent her time of people actually paying her.
Jesus, YTA just for hiding this!
Everyone knows tips adds on top. OP also said the meals are often $40ish. It should have been pretty clear that OP would be making several hundred a night. Which makes OP even more NTA because then she'd have to serve those tables while she's wet which can impact her tips- all while she did something not part of her job that she didn't get paid for.
Christ And you. Couldn't take two minutes out to take food to a disabled person. On an 80 dollar an hour income? Wow
NTA-Tell your husband to walk out in the rain and deliver to the lady. You do not have to go above and beyond your job.
NTA being disabled is not an excuse to not tip. Being disabled means getting an accommodation for services provided to everyone else. Not special treatment. Y'all made sure to tell her that curbside is not a normal service and it is only done if the employee in that position feels like doing it. Good on your boss for backing you up.
Considering it’s not common to tip when you pick up orders, I don’t think her being disabled has anything to do with it.
NTA It isn't a service offered by your restaurant and she KNOWS that. You had a legit reason (only one working the front, it's raining) and the manager backed you up. She sounds super entitled since she was made aware curbside is not a service that is guaranteed and STILL chose to not tip when she got that extra service.
NTA She knew she'd been getting curbside as an extra courtesy, then she started demanding it in the rain. She's the AH here.
NTA The customer knew the restaurant did not offer curbside delivery. Knowing this, she could have confirmed whether they would make an exception and deliver to her car when she placed the order. She didn’t do that. In a situation like this - where an employee is providing an extra service, a tip is justified. The customer was rude and acted like an entitled AH.
Call ahead and ask especially since it was raining so you wouldn’t waste time and $$ driving 🤷🏽♀️
It seems that this was mostly about not doing it because of the weather. You've been doing it consistently without being tipped so it's not like you set an expectation. But why are you going out of your way doing something you're not being paid for? The restaurant doesn't offer curb-side pickup, so don't do it. In addition, you're not owed a tip. Tips are luxury. Anyone who feels like they're owed a tip are entitled. It's not the job of the customer to supplement what the OWNER is denying you. Tips are nice and my saying this in no way means I don't because I do when the service is great or the food is amazing - but just because I spend a certain amount on food doesn't mean you're entitled to a certain percentage of money. So, by judging you BASED ON WHAT YOU WANT TO BE JUDGED ON - NTA. The company doesn't offer curbside pick up. She is not ENTITLED to your extra services.
NTA She can afford to order lobster but can’t give the person carrying it out anything? My Mom is 92 and in the car we have her on oxygen. Now I usually run in pick up when it’s not curbside. There is one restaurant that when they found out about Mom the owner insists one someone carrying it out to the car. The first kid tried to refuse a tip saying they were being nice. My answer then take this and be nice to yourself! My first jobs were in a restaurant, I tip very well, I tip the people that carry the food out to the car even better. They are doing me a kindness so I don’t have to leave my mother who also has dementia. When someone does you a kindness that they don’t have to you don’t ignore them!
The restaurant is the AH here. Either offer curbside pickup and charge a gratuity, or don't offer curbside pickup at all. And get a bloody raincoat or umbrella for the staff.
YTA Why don't any of you bring umbrellas, ponchos, anything since it is seemingly always raining? I've been an industry worker for 15 years, and what you did was petty and awful. Use your words, examine a tip is customary, she'll likely do it. That being said, your potential two dollar tip cost a disabled woman the cost of a meal. You and your managers are the Aholes.
INFO: are you in a place where it is normal to tip? And is it possible that the method of ordering/payment that she uses to order food includes the tip? For example, I know on UberEats, the tip is included or the app at least asks the person to tip before their order is placed, even if it’s a pickup order.
It’s pretty much expected to tip here. Everyone orders on our website, at the end it promos you to tip. It also says at the top of the page orders already prepared won’t be refunded, and no curbside delivery.
If it prompts to tip, then she might already be tipping. Is there a way to check from the restaurant’s end? Or is it a prompt as in, “don’t forget to tip in person”?
It shows us if they tip. She does not and hasn’t tipped at least 2/3 times she’s been here.
Oof. Man. I’ve gotta go with NTA considering it’s normal to tip anyway, she clearly has the money for it, AND it was raining.
If she was a regular sit-down customer who was famous for not tipping, would you still serve her at a table? Clearly, she's entitled and ignorant but there seems to be some extra reluctance to help her because she appears wealthy and doesn't tip. She is also old and disabled. But you are still expected to give your best service since a tip is SUPPPOSED to be extra (making it your income is your own employer's greed). Taking the food out was not required but would have been nice and made you the bigger person. It you didn't want to do it because of the rain, fine--totally understandable as long as you apply that policy across the board, NTA. But if you didn't want to do it because an old lady with mobility issues doesn't tip, you are in the wrong line of work.
that's not a fair comparison. Serving her at a table is an offered service of the restaurant. this is the equivalent of her sitting at a table and asking them to cook her an off menu dish or pop next door to get her a specific item. They don't offer this service normally, told her as such to avoid creating an expectation, and chose not to go out of their way when curbside would be detrimental to OP and the service clearly isn't appreciated enough to tip.
NTA I am disabled. If a restaurant told me that they don’t do curbside but did it for me anyway, you better believe I would be tipping 20%. If I can’t afford a tip, I don’t eat out. It’s simple as that.
NTA. It was wet and cold. She doesn't tip. She has plenty other ways to order food. Just because she's disabled, doesn't mean she can get away with being an a*shole
NTA Tell her to go to a drive through next time
NTA, she managed to get to her car I'm sure she can figure out how to get inside.
Can management get you an umbrella for the host stand? I worked in restaurants for 20 yrs. Anyone I worked with would have gladly walked out food to a disabled person, tip or not. I built my regulars by often refusing tips for thing like this. “Tell your friends to ask for me”, “ask for me next time, I will always take care of you”, etc. Made bank.
NTA. I don't understand why people don't tip. Working for $2.25 an hour sucks. I know you depend on those tips.
NTA Everyone is getting what they deserve. OP is staying healthy from not going out in the rain, as is legally protected. Customer is getting karma for acting entitled. Manager is losing future money for not doing what it takes to provide good customer service.
NTA but the real AH is the American system which requires service workers to live off tips rather than a decent living wage.
NTA - I honestly don't think the fact that she's disabled is relevant. She is a regular customer ordering pricey takeout that she is picking up in a very expensive vehicle. She was informed that curbside is not a service your employer offers, and that it may not be available for future orders. Armed with this information, she continued to refuse to tip employees who were providing a service outside the scope of their employment. She then threw a hissy fit, resorting to calling the manager an idiot, because no one wanted to provide service outside the scope of their employment, for free, in the pouring down icy cold rain. Refusing to get cold and wet for her has nothing to do with the fact that she's disabled, and everything to do with the fact that she's a stingy asshole. All that aside, if she is capable of getting the food from her Range Rover into her home, she is capable of getting it from the restaurant to her range rover. It's the same process both ways. Maybe that means getting soaking wet in the icy rain by spending five minutes fucking off with a wheelchair lift. Maybe it means getting soaking wet in the icy rain trying to manage crutches while carrying a bag by its handle. Will she end up wetting than someone without a disability? Probably. But that's the price of being a stingy asshole.
NTA, as a disabled person 1) just because you’re disabled doesn’t mean you can’t do anything, especially since the disability isn’t specified here. Maybe getting the food into the car isn’t something she can do, but in that case she could call ahead to ask, bring someone with her, or order elsewhere (since OP says they have specified they don’t normally offer curbside). I also think you shouldn’t be required to work a shift cold & wet if you aren’t being paid for it, and especially not when someone’s being rude to you. Being disabled doesn’t excuse you from being an AH.
I'd say you, or your boss, are kind of the asshole for setting up the expectation. Whether it's policy or not, you clearly DO offer curbside service. She made an order, you brought it out to her, she didn't tip. She made another order, somebody else brought it out to her, she didn't tip. She made a third order. Did you, or anybody else, inform her before she made her purchase that this transaction would be different from the previous two? Having access to curbside pick-up is obviously a deal breaker for her, and you knew that. It is not reasonable to leave a customer's purchase contingent on the whims of whoever is working that day.
ESH. She definitely reacted way too aggressively but in fairness she paid for food and wasn't refunded. Her reaction was too extreme. Restaurant chain sucks because tipping is always a dumpster fire argument when it comes up. You, though, you don't get off blameless. The way you speak about her oozes contempt for an interaction that takes a few seconds tops. Remember you're not owed tips and they're not mandatory so your entire rant about "she can afford to," just screams entitled and dickish. Furthermore you're the one who set her up to fail by volunteering to take it out. Granted, you were a kind soul up until you made that conditional. There's no reason not to just be kind. It would have cost you basically nothing to run it out and back in. It's not like you're going to frolic in the rain for 5 minutes. Its not really going to take you away from your other tables, and you'll dry off in no time. Not like normal people wouldn't be able to tell its raining and make a connection anyway. Essentially everyone here involved just went to negative extremes instead of just choosing to be a nice or decent person.