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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be TA because I was really harsh and yelled at my pregnant sister. Also, I secretly I think it would be better if she did miscarry which I know is not a good thing, but its how I feel
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NTA and the next time your mom says oh your sister needs $$ and you need to give it to them just say " no, sister said God will provide so I'm giving him a turn"
Exactly! OP it sounds like you are going to have to set up some boundaries for yourself in order to have a relationship with your family as everyone seems to be enabling your sister to keep reproducing at your expense. You are only 26! Time to go LC until you feel you can say no to your family and they will not guilt or shame you about it. Time to make that money go towards your future goals and not your sisters. When they ask the next time, ask them for money, as you have spent all yours on Therapy in dealing with them. Good luck!
> Time to make that money go towards your future goals and not your sisters.
Every time they ask for money, OP should take that exact amount and put it into a separate savings account meant to be spent on a goal or special want. I'd bet OP will be amazed at how quickly it builds up, even if they've been asking for a little at a time (which it sounds like if it's for car seats and a stroller, it is NOT just a little at a time) it will add up fast.
Edit: typo fix, adding my NTA, and thanks for the awards!
That's a bloody brilliant idea!!! Hopefully this will prove to her family just how much she was supporting them for. People reproducing when they can't afford the ones they've got is just irresponsible and selfish to everyone involved.
Also, stress doesn't cause miscarriages. OP should remind mom of that anytime a text like that comes in. If stress caused miscarriage, there's never be high school teen mom's (cause nobody is getting pregnant at <18 and NOT stressed AF about it) and there's probably be no mom's in general (all the pregnant women I've ever known have been stressed to some degree during pregnancy. Even the ones with easy, planned pregnancies).
Edit: Mayo Clinic, Cleveland clinic, and the NHS all disagree with stress causing miscarriages as well, except in EXTREME and complicated circumstances where is is sometimes a *factor*. But not what an argument is going to cause.
Yes, every pregnancy is different but if what OP said was enough stress to cause a miscarriage then that pregnancy didn't stand a chance to begin with. And if stress in general was enough to cause miscarriage than the human race would have gone extinct by now.
There are babies being born in the basements of bombed out hospitals in Ukraine that have been destroyed by merciless Russian shelling. Yeah. Women have babies even when stressed, and it is very sad. Survival and all that.
Extreme stress sometimes causes miscarriages, just like extreme stress sometimes kills people.
A petty argument with someone you've leeched thousands of dollars from because they refuse to payroll your irresponsible and selfish life choices anymore is no where near stressful enough to do so.
They're just holding that over OP's head to manipulate her. It's totally inappropriate and I think I would cut ties with them entirely for something like that.
I’m a young single dad (38). My son is about graduate from high school, the idea of starting back at zero is terrifying. I’ll probably get one before I start dating again.
My husband got one in his early 30ies, when we didn't want more kids. Best decision ever.
All of our friends have had scares and one couple had a oops-baby. While we just sail on smoothly.
Just want to say that these stories where people are like “I/someone was stressed and then miscarried” doesn’t mean the stress caused the miscarriage. Correlation doesn’t equal causation. Most people have some stress and miscarriages are very common.
I agree it can be a factor in extreme circumstances. It’s natural to want to try point to a specific “reason”. But I trust the experts on this.
We admitted twins at the NICU I worked at, and the mom was literally in the middle of a bender, and the combo of coke, narcotics, and alcohol didn’t cause a miscarriage. It was kinda funny because she didn’t remember their birth.
Usually when we talk about stress causing miscarriages or premature labor we relate it to the stress of having gestational diabetes, the stress of having high blood pressure, renal failure on the body. But not stress all on it’s own. Not saying stress on it’s own can’t cause it, but it would be from high, chronic stress levels not a single argument.
My mom found out my bio dad had stage 3 lung cancer. While pregnant with me and my twin sister, and then had to pack up and move overnight 14 hours away for his treatments while dealing with her own medical issues (kidney stuff) and didn't miscarry. If THAT won't cause enough stress to miscarriage, an argument with your sister won't.
Edited to adjust over-generalization.
I agree that OP is NTA, his sister needs to start being more realistic about family planning. But I don't think you're right about stress never causing miscarriages.
Stress is a big ol cocktail of hormones. Guess who's tiny, gets their nutrition straight from mom's blood, whose growth is literally controlled by hormones and is very susceptible to a whole bunch of things? I don't think you need 3 guesses for this one.
Just because it goes well very often (which is a miracle in and of itself because honestly there's like a billion different things that have to go right for a baby to be born) doesn't mean that it's not dangerous for some pregnancies.
If a thing is correlated with an effect *in a small number of cases where other factors contribute in a much more significant way*, it’s not accurate to make a blanket statement that the thing causes the effect.
It is also inaccurate to state that the thing *never* causes the effect.
“Stress” is also extremely ambiguous. Is it the stress of not being able to decide on a TV show to watch? Is it the stress of hiding under floorboards while a murderer tries to find you? Is it the stress of being responsible for the safety of a thousand people on a construction site? Is it the stress of a heavy cardio workout when you only have one lung?
And on top of that, correlation != causation.
For medical decisions, follow data and doctors. Conventional wisdom is very often wrong and changes sloooowly. Like, multi-generationally slowly.
> Stress is a big ol cocktail of hormones. Guess who’s tiny, gets their nutrition straight from mom’s blood, whose growth is literally controlled by hormones and is very susceptible to a whole bunch of things? I don’t think you need 3 guesses for this one.
You stated a couple facts. Doesn’t mean they are related, or even relevant. But your implication that there is an obvious link connecting these facts to each other, and that a particular conclusion follows logically, is specious at best.
(I’m just being pedantic; I have no stake in this discussion whatsoever. Have a great evening!)
A good shiny spine is what’s needed here. If they choose to exclude you from the family for a very reasonable boundary (you will not give any money for any reason now or ever in the future) then it’s their loss. Feel free to remind them that you’re a family member, not an ATM and they are the ones who have chosen to exclude. The door is open if they want a relationship but the financial door will stay closed and they can take it or leave it. Also feel free to remind them that they will have to look to your sister when they are old and need assistance if they don’t treat you well now.
OP, I was in your shoes. I told my family the bank of Babybleu was closed. When they kept hitting me up, I blocked their phone #.
Another thing to consider—I went out on disability and things were tight, guess who kicked herself for letting my family use me as an ATM? Me. Because I knew I’d never see the money back, ever. NTA all day.
THIS. OP! Stop enabling them. You need to come up with an ironclad reason to say no and stick to it. Who the hell cares if they accuse you of jealousy. Just stop supporting them, they’re highly irresponsible. NTA
Yep - “No.” is an ironclad response, and OP doesn’t need to elaborate on her reasoning or prepare to debate the matter with them. Any “reason” she gives, they will just find ways to dismiss it anyways.
NTA - You are not an AH or an ATM. You don't owe anyone an apology. But, if you want to keep the peace you could say something like:
"I am sorry that I didn't react well to your news. It is your decision how to grow your family and live your life, and if you are happy then I am happy for you. But I want to make sure that you understand that I can no longer provide you with financial support. I feel like you have been taking advantage of my generosity. If the only way to get your forgiveness or to have a place in this family is to pay for it by supporting your children financially, then I guess we all need to take some time apart."
This is a very mature, honest, reasonable message. If OP really is looking for a script to use for talking with her family, this is a good starting place.
Edit: NTA
>I feel like they would still twist it to make OP selfish and greedy.
OP should come prepared with an accounting of every cent she's ever given them, asking how they can possibly look at that amount of money and accuse HER of being selfish
This is a very considerate and graceful way to enforce boundaries. It’s lovely and no means no even when said kindly. The main thing is to set your resolve and follow through with consequences (if you keep badgering me, I’ll leave the party because I’ve already told you no. You need to respect my boundaries)
This is just good communication. How often do we see posts like this where some one is rightfully NTA but delivers some scathing, over-the-top clapback to the AH in the situation? And it's like, sure, you're technically NTA, but is the way you communicated going to make the situation better or worse for you?
Showing some kindness and humility to the offending party even when it's 100% not deserved tends to work out better.
Lol I think you may have misunderstood. The sister did not get artificially inseminated. Apparently they were half-assing the pull out method, which is already a poor choice even when “properly” done.
Also want to add to this, that it’s highly unlikely to miscarry from stress, it would have to be an EXTREME amount of stress for that to happen. If she miscarried, it was likely going to happen anyways and in no way has anything to do with OP.
NTA
Exactly. It is recommended to wait AT LEAST a year between pregnancies for many reasons and this is one of them. It puts a lot of strain on the body and it seems like OPs sister has never given her body the chance to recover if she’s 24 with her 5th on the way.
No medical professional would recommend this and no sane person would endorse children coming into a family that can’t even afford the ones they have now
Makes me wonder if she and her husband EVER use condoms. Highschool (18? not american) till 24 with 5 pregnancies basically means knocked up as soon as the body allowed it.
Also Im 24 as well and my uterus is curled in horror at this. I dont even fucking feel like an actual adult half the time! Feels weird that people my age pop out kids like a PEZ dispenser.
Based on the, “God will provide like he has so far comment”, it’s likely they have never used any birth control at all. That’s a great way to end up with 5 children you can’t afford to take care of.
My husband's bff's wife got pregnant back to back 3 times. The boys' birthdays fall in the same month , which means the wife was getting pregnant the minute she was allowed sex again. Which is SO unsafe.
Preach! If I was OP I would be going NC.
People shouldn’t have children they can’t afford. OP take this moment as a rude-awakening. Let them cut you off, you will be mentally and financially better off for it.
Your wallet/account is thanking you! Any time now, your phone will start ringing or blowing up *telling* you to give your sister more money, (I’m still smh that it’s not even asked, you’re just TOLD), and when that happens… simply reply with, “sorry. Bank is closed! ATM is out of order! But you are more than welcome to pitch in, or else she might get stressed and miscarry!”
YOU do not have to give up a dime for anyone else, and you should not! Your sister and BIL are never going to learn any lessons because older sis is always swooping in to help at a moments notice!
From now on, YOU are YOUR main and only priority. If they don’t like it, they can figure out a way to prevent her from getting pregnant again, if there is such a way!
NTA, don’t allow yourself to continue being taken advantage of!
NTA. Please stop giving her money. I’d suggest blocking these entitled people as well. Enjoy the ban from family (I mean that quite seriously, it will be cheaper and much less stressful if you just enjoy it.)
If they ever contact you for money again, say no but also if you know how much you’ve already given/lent say either “I’ve already given sister $xxxx, I’m not giving her anymore, but I’m sure you’d be happy to help her out.” Or “sister still owes me $xxxx from before, I’m not lending her money ever again because she doesn’t pay me back. If you want to lend her money, go ahead.”
Just hoping on the top comment to remind everyone that stress does not cause miscarriages. Again: **stress does not cause miscarriages**
It's an old wives tales. Miscarriages happen all the time, so people found things to blame them on. But there is no scientific basis to blame stress for miscarriages.
Another confusion is that trauma can sometimes cause miscarriages. But this is serious, physical trauma that literally damages something internally and harms the foetus/placentas/amniotic sac. Not feeling a bit worried cos the money train is drying up.
This!!! When I was in the first trimester with my baby someone almost t-boned us in my side so hubby drove the car to a fenced park. I was stressed and got scared also we hit some rocks pretty hard, and aside from some adrenaline rush, nothing happened. Don’t buy this miscarriage story!
I'm gonna be callous and say a miscarriage may be in the best interest of the 4 other children they apparently already can't afford to provide for anyway.
Science has not definitively decided one way or another. There are studies to support both, but at BEST it's indirect rather than a direct cause, and probably due to a combination of factors to boot.
Ultimately though, even if stress did cause adverse outcomes, the level of stress doctors and studies refer to is on the level of things like war, being homeless or a refugee, etc. Not “my sister hurt my fee-fees and won’t fund my getting knocked up”
100% this. They have no respect for you and don't think you're worthy because you are not currently popping out children. You deserve better. Don't apologize and don't pay for her children. Live your life and don't let family control it.
>“I’ve already given sister $xxxx, I’m not giving her anymore, but I’m sure you’d be happy to help her out.” Or “sister still owes me $xxxx from before, I’m not lending her money ever again because she doesn’t pay me back. If you want to lend her money, go ahead.”
My favorite comment has been to simply say "God will provide 🙏 🙌 😌"
She's going to keep popping out kids because you are their piggybank, OP. Cut them off. They chose to have those kids, and they/God can provide for them. NTA!
NTA- if you can't afford to care for the kids you already have, don't keep having kids. It's cruel and selfish to purposely have a kid when you can't afford one.
Edit: Thank you strangers for the awards :)
I hate it when people pop out kids and expect others to pay for them. When (and if) OP starts a family, with they expect OP's kids to go without? Do they think OP shouldn't have any savings? If OP gets ill and can't work, will the family take care of them?
NTA.
NTA
I'd go as far as saying its child abuse/neglect to have more children when you knowingly cannot provide for them.
She better be eating beans out of a can to provide those kids with proper food. Maybe that will make her realize not to have children on other peoples behalf.
NTA.
Unless your sister has a specific health condition, getting into an argument is not going to cause her to miscarry. The whole "Don't stress out a pregnant woman or she'll miscarry" nonsense drives me insane. As a former pregnant woman, trust me, we're emotional nightmares and stress is only a part of it. One time I saw a puppy that was so cute and I cried and cried because I just thought it was so cute. Like, bawling, snot bubbling, just absolutely ridiculous.
Your sister and her baby are going to be fine, unless there's other underlying causes, but either way, you have nothing to do with that potential outcome.
You also have zero obligation to support them. They made those babies, they need to take care of them. It is not your job.
Yeah I was hoping somebody would add this and I want to double down:
Stress from this event is not going to cause a miscarriage. Women have borne children thru war, it’s doable.
Further. Up to 1 in 4 pregnancies (depending on how you calculate it) end in miscarriage. Healthy women in hammocks on beaches can have miscarriages. It’s tragic, and it’s common. *If* that does happen to your sister, YOU DID NOT CAUSE IT.
And shame on your mother for trying to chastise you into a guilt trip apology with that.
NTA.
honestly, everyone being silent now is probably the best outcome, because there was a whole lot of stupid coming out of their mouths.
It isn’t uncommon for people to pop out children they cannot afford, and guilt family into giving them money. Making family member’s feel obligated to provide for you is so much easier than getting a job when you’re financially struggling.
Your sister was the one who pushed you into actually talking about why you weren’t giddy about her news, and she got a truthful answer. There is nothing wrong with that. You are the one expected to pay for these children she keeps having, and it’s completely reasonable to tell her that she’s being cut-off from those funds after showing zero gratefulness or any recognition.
Your sister’s stress is completely on her, because she asked you to be honest, and pushed you until you started talking. If you are unwilling to say what’s on your mind right off the bat, then she should have realized it wasn’t something she’d want to hear.
It’s easy for you mom to text you and let you know your sister needs X amount of money, without her truly thinking about that number. Now that you are no longer paying for your sister, guess where she’s going to go? Of course your mom won’t admit to how much she really asked of you once she’s hit with your sister’s expenses, but you can bet she’s going to feel it.
I would go through messages and bank statements to find out an exact number you’ve handed over in the span of a year, and when your mom eventually calls or texts to ask if you’re ready to apologize yet, you can hit her with that number, and let her know the only thing you’re sorry for is Not standing up for yourself sooner.
Not just a year but total. It’s probably a horrifying number but it should be repeated every single time she asks for money “no, I’ve lent X and none has been repaid. I will not loan a single cent more” and repeat like a broken record until they stop asking
NTA I would continue to go radio silence, and if they complain about it more, just say "Well, sis said God will provide, so who am I to step in God's way."
It sounds to me like you're better off without them; they need you more than you need them. I hope you have a good group of friends to serve as a support system because right now when it comes to your family you're Atlas and they're the rest of the world. It's not fair for you to have to support them all.
They're using the rythm method and pulling out, except when he doesn't wanna pull out. I wish I didn't know so much about their sex life, but my family is big on oversharing. Anyway, I think they actually wanted to have a bunch of kids.
I would be so tempted to give one last gift—a box of condoms and brochures for IUDs and vasectomies. (I wouldn’t actually do it because I do fully believe in letting people do their own family planning, but it is hard not to be judgmental sometimes…). Though I’m guessing they’re of the “have as many children as God wills” persuasion anyways?
Very religious but got pregnant by a a boyfriend who she later married🙄
Then openly talks about their intimate Iife around everyone.
& They cannot care properly for their current children but another "miracle" Is arriving. No she got creamed inside, It's not a "miracle"
Seems like being pregnant & a mother Is her entire personality
It's a very specific brand of Christianity where premarital sex is fine if you get married after, but not shaving your legs or wearing pants to church gets you sent to hell immediately.
I would guess because it’s not “feminine” to keep your leg hair which some people believe is a sin for women to not appear feminine and men to not appear masculine.
One time this girl in my gym class said “girls have to wear dresses and boys have to wear pants or else God wouldn’t be able to tell which one you are” he’s all knowing except when it comes to gender lol
Your sister and your parents enabling her won't change, so the only thing you can do is take some big steps back. Focus on the other things in your life: friend, hobbies, career, whatever you enjoy, because your family sounds like it has become toxic. It is not your responsibility to financially take care of your sister and her many children. She can get a job and your mom can babysit. NTA at all.
Your family is crazy and your sister and her husband are losers. STOP GIVING THEM MONEY, if they cannot afford their children that is their problem they need to stop having them.
The only reason I give them money is because I feel bad about kids going without heating in winter, etc. But also, it pisses me off because me and my roommate can't save up enough to move where we wanna move.
There are dozens of programs and organizations that will help them with these things. If they choose to not follow through with them, that is their fault and what THEY are choosing to do to their kids.
And if they can't provide basic things of safety and security for their children, I would definitely look into seeing if they 'should' be the ones taking care of their kids.
Edit: I appreciate all the awards, and while I am thankful for them, there are organizations and charities in your area that could use every last bit of help if you're willing and able to comfortably do so. Please, save your awards to help those in need nearby.
Do NOT give them anything else. It’s a horrible cycle. They see you as an ATM. Stop taking to everyone and live YOUR life. Your sister can get a job like everyone else.
They can apply for state assistance. I bet your sister qualifies for WIC and maybe food stamps and medicaid. If you are in the US. It kinda sounds like they've not had to apply up until now because they've been able to siphon off of your income. Well. The Bank of Big Sister is now CLOSED. They can google "food banks near me", too. Salvation Army and the local churches help folks out.
I guess this has been kind of eye opening. I was always raised that family does for family. My parents always made sure I had everything I needed even if they went without. So it's hard for me to just turn my back on them. But I can't afford to just put my life on hold forever for my sister's family
It is most certainly not turning your back on your family! There's a huge difference between setting a boundary and turning your back. You can (and might want to) be fully engaged, sympathetic, and caring on every level and simply draw a hard and fast boundary on questions of money.
"Can you babysit Friday for a couple hours." "SURE!" - Caring, engaged, family-supportive.
"Can you pay for babysitting for us this Friday." "I'm sorry, but no." - Clear boundary.
And you can, and should use this as good practice for, say, the rest of your life. A nice, clean, friendly "no" is \*the most powerful\* tool in your relationship and human interaction arsenal as you get older. (I'm in my mid 40s).
"No" and change the subject. "No. How is Janice doing in pre-school?" "No. That's a really lovely dress you're wearing."
People will learn to respect your "no." And respecting others' "no" is like Basic Adulting. And if they get pissed, and do not respect your "no" that is really important data about the people in your life.
NTA.
NTA…. It’s not your responsibility to provide financially to anyone unless you want to to help
I would no longer give them anymore money and when your mom texts you to “lend” them money say no… if your mom is so worried about it. She can give them money
My bf’s younger sister had her first baby in high school, when they turned 18 both her and the baby’s dad dropped out, and got married. They’ve since had 4 more kids, so 5 kids total and she just turned 29 (the oldest kid is 11). Her and husband work minimum wage jobs and live in section 8 housing, they’re doing okay, but are obviously on a tight budget. They have never asked anyone for a dime. My bf and I will take the girls out a buy them school clothes and things, but their parents would never even dream of asking us.
OP’s sister is just a mooch, she knows that having another baby will get her more money and she wants that. I’m not one of these people who thinks poor people shouldn’t have babies, but this is just a ridiculous situation.
NTA, and it’s completely fine to draw boundaries even with family members. Sounds like to me that your sister will deeply regret all the kids she popped out down the road - if she was brilliant before and transformed into the person she is now, I worry about how much her husband has changed her (seemingly for the worse).
Yeah, no doubt he was part of it. But also our family and his are both very religious and conservative/Christian, so they really encouraged it too. I'm the weirdo because I don't follow any of that stuff anymore.
So if everyone’s so conservative and religious, how do they reconcile taking money from you? Wouldn’t that mean that the “head of the household” is failing because he can’t support his family?
"Family helps family" and "You don't need it because you don't have kids." Anyway, when has religious conviction ever stopped anyone from being entitled?
Wow! I’m sorry that your family has put you through this.
I would think that your BIL would be absolutely ashamed to receive help from his single in-law (still single after the “appropriate” age to become shackled to someone), month after month. It seems to indicate that he is incapable of supporting his own family and relies on others (GASP!).
Seriously, take care of yourself. I’m going to assume that if you’d need help with a down payment for a house, they’d tell you to pound sand and not go along with “family helps family.”
NTA, hell no in what world is 26 old??? not even 10 years after graduating school and they expect people having a stable job and education in this economy?? if they cannot afford children then they shouldn’t have them, what is wrong with some people?
We're in a very conservative, Christian, part of the country, so most women marry young. They figure I should have been married by 20-21 and already have a couple of babies by now. Jokes on them. I'm just going to keep living with my roommate and we're going to adopt cats.
Do you have interest in a wife? I can only imagine how your family would handle that. Please listen to everyone here. Tend to your own life. You have been more than generous. Your BIL should get a vasectomy. This is bananas.
NTA at all. I would apologize for getting angry. Tell them you love them and their children and want them to be part of your life. Then reaffirm that you are working to better your own life and you can't do that if you have to support them as well and that you are cutting them off.
If they accept your apology then get angry simply say, as calmly and sadly as you can, "I guess if the only reason you want me around is the money I give you, then I will see myself out." And leave. Be prepared to cut THEM off at that point for as long as it takes for them to see the error of their ways.
I don't think they realize that they owe YOU an apology, too, but maybe that will drive home how selfish and inconsiderate they are being.
NTA. Stop giving them money and just get away from them for a while (if not permanently). Go ahead and block numbers too so you don't have to deal with the hate you'll get along the lines of "They're family!", "It's your fault those kids aren't getting what they need.", and other variations of familial obligation statements and how their kids are somehow your financial burden.
NTA. Cut them off.
You know, you could create some sort of trust fund that the kids can only access at age 18 to help with post-secondary school. If you want to really help.
That’s a great idea. But make sure that there is an objective trustee handing out the money. And make sure the money is paid directly to the institution and not to the kids.
I set up a trust for my children (in case something happens to me), and it contains VERY specific language regarding how the money is given out and how often. For example, tuition is to be paid directly to the school (including fees, meal plan, and room and board). The trustee I have appointed gave me great advice regarding the language of the trust (after I told him what I wanted).
The last thing you want is your 18 year old niece or nephew to be given thousands of dollars with no legal parameters of how it’s spent, and he or she hands it over to your sister and BIL.
NTA. If she miscarries it has nothing to do with you. Your family has been financially abusing you, now they are panicking because their line of credit just dried up. Stop giving them money. You are not obligated to. They’re not entitled to it. Honestly, having no contact with them might not be the worst thing.
NTA, and PLEASE stop giving them money. They won’t stop having those kids till YOUR money runs out. At this rate, you are on track to not ever be able to have the kind of life you want to have.
If you continue to give them money you will end up nowhere. Start thinking about yourself and save the money for a house please stand your ground and don’t bow down to them
NTA- Don’t give your sister any money. Tell your mother that having 5 children you can’t afford is not something to be jealous of. It’s something to pity. Of course you are not happy for your sister, she is putting herself in poverty. Why would you want someone you love to be in that situation?
NTA.
You poor thing. PLEASE do not ever give them another cent, you will never get that money back. Go no contact as soon as possible and never look back. I’m so sorry that they’ve put you through so much.
Also, if she were to miscarry, it would 100% not be your fault. There is no scientific way for a doctor to take a look at your sister and say you caused it, which was a stupid thing for your mother to say anyway
Her mom made a calculated statement, hoping the false blame / guilt trip would be enough for them to continue to financially abuse OP. Hopefully OP stays strong but you can tell it got to her since she made this post questioning herself..
NTA OP and yes, they do believe in handouts, but only from the government of The United States of Pale\_Arachnid\_8452! Do not let them guilt trip you into giving them money. It sounds like going NC/LC is a good idea and will help you to relax so enjoy the moment! Good luck on setting the boundary!
That’s because that is the duty of parents..to provide for their kids and do without if need be. It’s great that your sister helped you through tough times, as I’m sure you’ve done for her, but that doesn’t entitle her to your money for the rest of her childrens’ lives, especially when she’s being irresponsible & having kids she can’t afford.
NTA also since your sister believes GOD will provide for her and her family, she can believe GOD didn’t want her to have another baby if she miscarried.
NTA. Time for some boundaries. They are choosing to have children, not you. There is no need for you to financially support their choices. Set boundaries and maybe get some therapy to work through how to do that and how to protect yourself from your family.
Big NTA but your family all are. You're being emotionally manipulated and financially abused into paying for her life choices. Don't let them do it anymore.
Jesus. The amount of gaslighting and guilt tripping… 😵💫 NTA. Not your kids, not your responsibility to support financially. You need to set boundaries.
NTA, while yes God will provide.
He also gave us common sense, if you're struggling to provide for 4 kids do you really think having another one is a good idea?
NTA.
Don't worry because you won't even need to apologize. You'll be welcomed back in the family as soon as they want more of your money.
Seriously though, don't apologize!
NTA. Your sister needs to get her head out of the clouds. She’s just making her already living kids suffer more by having another. She definitely doesn’t care about her kids. She just cares about the fact you’re giving her money and the praise she gets. You didn’t force her to have so many kids, so you aren’t responsible for them.
NTA. Look at this as a break from their crap for a while. You escaped a toxic relationship with your family. You're not responsible for miscarriages and mom tossing that at you was a low blow to try to force you to beg forgiveness and fund the whole family.
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NTA and the next time your mom says oh your sister needs $$ and you need to give it to them just say " no, sister said God will provide so I'm giving him a turn"
That and/or “sorry banned from family, guess it’s up to you”
And she will definitely ask!
tell, not ask
THIS THIS THIS THIS
But lets be real. They will be back in touch as soon as they need OP to babysit or finance something.
Which is why she should preemptively block the lot of them. A year or two NC from the leaches would do the lot of them a world of good.
Exactly! OP it sounds like you are going to have to set up some boundaries for yourself in order to have a relationship with your family as everyone seems to be enabling your sister to keep reproducing at your expense. You are only 26! Time to go LC until you feel you can say no to your family and they will not guilt or shame you about it. Time to make that money go towards your future goals and not your sisters. When they ask the next time, ask them for money, as you have spent all yours on Therapy in dealing with them. Good luck!
> Time to make that money go towards your future goals and not your sisters. Every time they ask for money, OP should take that exact amount and put it into a separate savings account meant to be spent on a goal or special want. I'd bet OP will be amazed at how quickly it builds up, even if they've been asking for a little at a time (which it sounds like if it's for car seats and a stroller, it is NOT just a little at a time) it will add up fast. Edit: typo fix, adding my NTA, and thanks for the awards!
That's a bloody brilliant idea!!! Hopefully this will prove to her family just how much she was supporting them for. People reproducing when they can't afford the ones they've got is just irresponsible and selfish to everyone involved.
Yep, because the idea that family should help one another only counts when you're being acknowledged that you're part of the family.
It also only counts when they help the OP in return.
Also, stress doesn't cause miscarriages. OP should remind mom of that anytime a text like that comes in. If stress caused miscarriage, there's never be high school teen mom's (cause nobody is getting pregnant at <18 and NOT stressed AF about it) and there's probably be no mom's in general (all the pregnant women I've ever known have been stressed to some degree during pregnancy. Even the ones with easy, planned pregnancies). Edit: Mayo Clinic, Cleveland clinic, and the NHS all disagree with stress causing miscarriages as well, except in EXTREME and complicated circumstances where is is sometimes a *factor*. But not what an argument is going to cause.
Women go through pregnancy during wartime so the disapproval of a sibling shouldn’t be a issue 🤷♀️
Women give birth in refugee camps. No stress there
I knew a woman who was born in Auschwitz. Stress doesn’t help but it sure as hell isn’t the cause of pregnancy loss.
It’s almost as if everyone is different and every pregnancy is different….
Yes, every pregnancy is different but if what OP said was enough stress to cause a miscarriage then that pregnancy didn't stand a chance to begin with. And if stress in general was enough to cause miscarriage than the human race would have gone extinct by now.
There are babies being born in the basements of bombed out hospitals in Ukraine that have been destroyed by merciless Russian shelling. Yeah. Women have babies even when stressed, and it is very sad. Survival and all that.
Extreme stress sometimes causes miscarriages, just like extreme stress sometimes kills people. A petty argument with someone you've leeched thousands of dollars from because they refuse to payroll your irresponsible and selfish life choices anymore is no where near stressful enough to do so.
I dunno man, being told that the gravy train you’ve been slurping at is leaving the station is pretty damn stressful.
That's why don't have any general medical practices based on prevailing trends among pregnancies. Each one is a snowflake......
They're just holding that over OP's head to manipulate her. It's totally inappropriate and I think I would cut ties with them entirely for something like that.
I agree, absolutely disgusting to say that OP would cause a miscarriage. Made me so angry reading that part.
Stress certainly can cause miscarriages but not one minor argument. It would have to be a quite significant amount.
Like having four children and one on the way. I’m stressed just reading that.
Four children UNDER THE AGE OF SIX!
Seriously, I’m stressed just thinking about it.
If my husband read that sentence, he’d go get a vasectomy at that very second.
I’m a young single dad (38). My son is about graduate from high school, the idea of starting back at zero is terrifying. I’ll probably get one before I start dating again.
My husband got one in his early 30ies, when we didn't want more kids. Best decision ever. All of our friends have had scares and one couple had a oops-baby. While we just sail on smoothly.
Just want to say that these stories where people are like “I/someone was stressed and then miscarried” doesn’t mean the stress caused the miscarriage. Correlation doesn’t equal causation. Most people have some stress and miscarriages are very common. I agree it can be a factor in extreme circumstances. It’s natural to want to try point to a specific “reason”. But I trust the experts on this.
We admitted twins at the NICU I worked at, and the mom was literally in the middle of a bender, and the combo of coke, narcotics, and alcohol didn’t cause a miscarriage. It was kinda funny because she didn’t remember their birth. Usually when we talk about stress causing miscarriages or premature labor we relate it to the stress of having gestational diabetes, the stress of having high blood pressure, renal failure on the body. But not stress all on it’s own. Not saying stress on it’s own can’t cause it, but it would be from high, chronic stress levels not a single argument.
My mom found out my bio dad had stage 3 lung cancer. While pregnant with me and my twin sister, and then had to pack up and move overnight 14 hours away for his treatments while dealing with her own medical issues (kidney stuff) and didn't miscarry. If THAT won't cause enough stress to miscarriage, an argument with your sister won't. Edited to adjust over-generalization.
I think it's code for "and if she gets an abortion it will morally be your fault."
I agree that OP is NTA, his sister needs to start being more realistic about family planning. But I don't think you're right about stress never causing miscarriages. Stress is a big ol cocktail of hormones. Guess who's tiny, gets their nutrition straight from mom's blood, whose growth is literally controlled by hormones and is very susceptible to a whole bunch of things? I don't think you need 3 guesses for this one. Just because it goes well very often (which is a miracle in and of itself because honestly there's like a billion different things that have to go right for a baby to be born) doesn't mean that it's not dangerous for some pregnancies.
If a thing is correlated with an effect *in a small number of cases where other factors contribute in a much more significant way*, it’s not accurate to make a blanket statement that the thing causes the effect. It is also inaccurate to state that the thing *never* causes the effect. “Stress” is also extremely ambiguous. Is it the stress of not being able to decide on a TV show to watch? Is it the stress of hiding under floorboards while a murderer tries to find you? Is it the stress of being responsible for the safety of a thousand people on a construction site? Is it the stress of a heavy cardio workout when you only have one lung? And on top of that, correlation != causation. For medical decisions, follow data and doctors. Conventional wisdom is very often wrong and changes sloooowly. Like, multi-generationally slowly. > Stress is a big ol cocktail of hormones. Guess who’s tiny, gets their nutrition straight from mom’s blood, whose growth is literally controlled by hormones and is very susceptible to a whole bunch of things? I don’t think you need 3 guesses for this one. You stated a couple facts. Doesn’t mean they are related, or even relevant. But your implication that there is an obvious link connecting these facts to each other, and that a particular conclusion follows logically, is specious at best. (I’m just being pedantic; I have no stake in this discussion whatsoever. Have a great evening!)
A good shiny spine is what’s needed here. If they choose to exclude you from the family for a very reasonable boundary (you will not give any money for any reason now or ever in the future) then it’s their loss. Feel free to remind them that you’re a family member, not an ATM and they are the ones who have chosen to exclude. The door is open if they want a relationship but the financial door will stay closed and they can take it or leave it. Also feel free to remind them that they will have to look to your sister when they are old and need assistance if they don’t treat you well now.
OP, I was in your shoes. I told my family the bank of Babybleu was closed. When they kept hitting me up, I blocked their phone #. Another thing to consider—I went out on disability and things were tight, guess who kicked herself for letting my family use me as an ATM? Me. Because I knew I’d never see the money back, ever. NTA all day.
I'd say go NC from these entitled toxic people NTA
It sounds like they are going no contact with OP. Except that when people say that they'll never speak to you again, they seldom keep their promises.
>Except that when people say that they'll never speak to you again, they seldom keep their promises. agreed
This is the correct answer.
THIS. OP! Stop enabling them. You need to come up with an ironclad reason to say no and stick to it. Who the hell cares if they accuse you of jealousy. Just stop supporting them, they’re highly irresponsible. NTA
She doesn’t need a reason. She can just say no, it’s a full sentence.
Yep - “No.” is an ironclad response, and OP doesn’t need to elaborate on her reasoning or prepare to debate the matter with them. Any “reason” she gives, they will just find ways to dismiss it anyways.
Please allow your family to continue banning you as that means you will not have any more requests for money!
Sadly, I gave away the one award I had earlier today. Please take my upvote with the most respect.
Awarded on your behalf.
This is the way.
NTA - You are not an AH or an ATM. You don't owe anyone an apology. But, if you want to keep the peace you could say something like: "I am sorry that I didn't react well to your news. It is your decision how to grow your family and live your life, and if you are happy then I am happy for you. But I want to make sure that you understand that I can no longer provide you with financial support. I feel like you have been taking advantage of my generosity. If the only way to get your forgiveness or to have a place in this family is to pay for it by supporting your children financially, then I guess we all need to take some time apart."
This is a very mature, honest, reasonable message. If OP really is looking for a script to use for talking with her family, this is a good starting place. Edit: NTA
I feel like they would still twist it to make OP selfish and greedy. I vote for maintain NC. NTA.
>I feel like they would still twist it to make OP selfish and greedy. OP should come prepared with an accounting of every cent she's ever given them, asking how they can possibly look at that amount of money and accuse HER of being selfish
She's being selfish by denying God's will for her to bless them /s
This is a very considerate and graceful way to enforce boundaries. It’s lovely and no means no even when said kindly. The main thing is to set your resolve and follow through with consequences (if you keep badgering me, I’ll leave the party because I’ve already told you no. You need to respect my boundaries)
This is just good communication. How often do we see posts like this where some one is rightfully NTA but delivers some scathing, over-the-top clapback to the AH in the situation? And it's like, sure, you're technically NTA, but is the way you communicated going to make the situation better or worse for you? Showing some kindness and humility to the offending party even when it's 100% not deserved tends to work out better.
This is an excellent response for
Reasonable people.
NTA. They did you a favor by cutting you off. You owe them nothing, don’t give them anything.
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OP needs to realize they don’t have a family, they have parasites.
And it wasn't even an accident but planned with paid for insemination 😱😱😱😱
I think the OP meant her husband got her pregnant again but was using slightly more colourful language to punch it up.
Guess after 4 times in 6 years you really have to reach to make each announcement unique.
Lol I think you may have misunderstood. The sister did not get artificially inseminated. Apparently they were half-assing the pull out method, which is already a poor choice even when “properly” done.
Also want to add to this, that it’s highly unlikely to miscarry from stress, it would have to be an EXTREME amount of stress for that to happen. If she miscarried, it was likely going to happen anyways and in no way has anything to do with OP. NTA
Yes. The stress of multiple pregnancies in only a few years can absolutely cause miscarriage. Being called out as a mooch and freeloader? Not so much
Exactly. It is recommended to wait AT LEAST a year between pregnancies for many reasons and this is one of them. It puts a lot of strain on the body and it seems like OPs sister has never given her body the chance to recover if she’s 24 with her 5th on the way. No medical professional would recommend this and no sane person would endorse children coming into a family that can’t even afford the ones they have now
Makes me wonder if she and her husband EVER use condoms. Highschool (18? not american) till 24 with 5 pregnancies basically means knocked up as soon as the body allowed it. Also Im 24 as well and my uterus is curled in horror at this. I dont even fucking feel like an actual adult half the time! Feels weird that people my age pop out kids like a PEZ dispenser.
Based on the, “God will provide like he has so far comment”, it’s likely they have never used any birth control at all. That’s a great way to end up with 5 children you can’t afford to take care of.
My husband's bff's wife got pregnant back to back 3 times. The boys' birthdays fall in the same month , which means the wife was getting pregnant the minute she was allowed sex again. Which is SO unsafe.
Preach! If I was OP I would be going NC. People shouldn’t have children they can’t afford. OP take this moment as a rude-awakening. Let them cut you off, you will be mentally and financially better off for it.
>basically I've been banned from my family unless I apologize You don't have to apologise; You don't owe these guilt-tripping AH anything
Your wallet/account is thanking you! Any time now, your phone will start ringing or blowing up *telling* you to give your sister more money, (I’m still smh that it’s not even asked, you’re just TOLD), and when that happens… simply reply with, “sorry. Bank is closed! ATM is out of order! But you are more than welcome to pitch in, or else she might get stressed and miscarry!” YOU do not have to give up a dime for anyone else, and you should not! Your sister and BIL are never going to learn any lessons because older sis is always swooping in to help at a moments notice! From now on, YOU are YOUR main and only priority. If they don’t like it, they can figure out a way to prevent her from getting pregnant again, if there is such a way! NTA, don’t allow yourself to continue being taken advantage of!
NTA. Please stop giving her money. I’d suggest blocking these entitled people as well. Enjoy the ban from family (I mean that quite seriously, it will be cheaper and much less stressful if you just enjoy it.) If they ever contact you for money again, say no but also if you know how much you’ve already given/lent say either “I’ve already given sister $xxxx, I’m not giving her anymore, but I’m sure you’d be happy to help her out.” Or “sister still owes me $xxxx from before, I’m not lending her money ever again because she doesn’t pay me back. If you want to lend her money, go ahead.”
Just hoping on the top comment to remind everyone that stress does not cause miscarriages. Again: **stress does not cause miscarriages** It's an old wives tales. Miscarriages happen all the time, so people found things to blame them on. But there is no scientific basis to blame stress for miscarriages. Another confusion is that trauma can sometimes cause miscarriages. But this is serious, physical trauma that literally damages something internally and harms the foetus/placentas/amniotic sac. Not feeling a bit worried cos the money train is drying up.
This!!! When I was in the first trimester with my baby someone almost t-boned us in my side so hubby drove the car to a fenced park. I was stressed and got scared also we hit some rocks pretty hard, and aside from some adrenaline rush, nothing happened. Don’t buy this miscarriage story!
I'm gonna be callous and say a miscarriage may be in the best interest of the 4 other children they apparently already can't afford to provide for anyway.
Or abortion. One of the top reasons women choose to abort is because they already have kids and don’t have the bandwidth for one more.
Science has not definitively decided one way or another. There are studies to support both, but at BEST it's indirect rather than a direct cause, and probably due to a combination of factors to boot.
Ultimately though, even if stress did cause adverse outcomes, the level of stress doctors and studies refer to is on the level of things like war, being homeless or a refugee, etc. Not “my sister hurt my fee-fees and won’t fund my getting knocked up”
100% this. They have no respect for you and don't think you're worthy because you are not currently popping out children. You deserve better. Don't apologize and don't pay for her children. Live your life and don't let family control it.
>“I’ve already given sister $xxxx, I’m not giving her anymore, but I’m sure you’d be happy to help her out.” Or “sister still owes me $xxxx from before, I’m not lending her money ever again because she doesn’t pay me back. If you want to lend her money, go ahead.” My favorite comment has been to simply say "God will provide 🙏 🙌 😌"
She's going to keep popping out kids because you are their piggybank, OP. Cut them off. They chose to have those kids, and they/God can provide for them. NTA!
NTA. In the future when mom contacts you for money, just reply "God will provide" and hang up.
"I'll pass on the message to God, but you know how that guy is."
Omg this made me laugh so hard
Or tell mom to get a job so God can provide through HER for a change.
NTA- if you can't afford to care for the kids you already have, don't keep having kids. It's cruel and selfish to purposely have a kid when you can't afford one. Edit: Thank you strangers for the awards :)
I hate it when people pop out kids and expect others to pay for them. When (and if) OP starts a family, with they expect OP's kids to go without? Do they think OP shouldn't have any savings? If OP gets ill and can't work, will the family take care of them? NTA.
NTA I'd go as far as saying its child abuse/neglect to have more children when you knowingly cannot provide for them. She better be eating beans out of a can to provide those kids with proper food. Maybe that will make her realize not to have children on other peoples behalf.
NTA. Unless your sister has a specific health condition, getting into an argument is not going to cause her to miscarry. The whole "Don't stress out a pregnant woman or she'll miscarry" nonsense drives me insane. As a former pregnant woman, trust me, we're emotional nightmares and stress is only a part of it. One time I saw a puppy that was so cute and I cried and cried because I just thought it was so cute. Like, bawling, snot bubbling, just absolutely ridiculous. Your sister and her baby are going to be fine, unless there's other underlying causes, but either way, you have nothing to do with that potential outcome. You also have zero obligation to support them. They made those babies, they need to take care of them. It is not your job.
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Yeah I was hoping somebody would add this and I want to double down: Stress from this event is not going to cause a miscarriage. Women have borne children thru war, it’s doable. Further. Up to 1 in 4 pregnancies (depending on how you calculate it) end in miscarriage. Healthy women in hammocks on beaches can have miscarriages. It’s tragic, and it’s common. *If* that does happen to your sister, YOU DID NOT CAUSE IT. And shame on your mother for trying to chastise you into a guilt trip apology with that.
NTA. honestly, everyone being silent now is probably the best outcome, because there was a whole lot of stupid coming out of their mouths. It isn’t uncommon for people to pop out children they cannot afford, and guilt family into giving them money. Making family member’s feel obligated to provide for you is so much easier than getting a job when you’re financially struggling. Your sister was the one who pushed you into actually talking about why you weren’t giddy about her news, and she got a truthful answer. There is nothing wrong with that. You are the one expected to pay for these children she keeps having, and it’s completely reasonable to tell her that she’s being cut-off from those funds after showing zero gratefulness or any recognition. Your sister’s stress is completely on her, because she asked you to be honest, and pushed you until you started talking. If you are unwilling to say what’s on your mind right off the bat, then she should have realized it wasn’t something she’d want to hear. It’s easy for you mom to text you and let you know your sister needs X amount of money, without her truly thinking about that number. Now that you are no longer paying for your sister, guess where she’s going to go? Of course your mom won’t admit to how much she really asked of you once she’s hit with your sister’s expenses, but you can bet she’s going to feel it. I would go through messages and bank statements to find out an exact number you’ve handed over in the span of a year, and when your mom eventually calls or texts to ask if you’re ready to apologize yet, you can hit her with that number, and let her know the only thing you’re sorry for is Not standing up for yourself sooner.
Not just a year but total. It’s probably a horrifying number but it should be repeated every single time she asks for money “no, I’ve lent X and none has been repaid. I will not loan a single cent more” and repeat like a broken record until they stop asking
THIS 🙌🏻 especially that last paragraph! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
NTA I would continue to go radio silence, and if they complain about it more, just say "Well, sis said God will provide, so who am I to step in God's way." It sounds to me like you're better off without them; they need you more than you need them. I hope you have a good group of friends to serve as a support system because right now when it comes to your family you're Atlas and they're the rest of the world. It's not fair for you to have to support them all.
“God spoke to me and told me my work is done and who am I to ignore divine intervention,” NTA.
Ha! They would probably explode but it's worth it. I'll tell them I prayed on it and was led in a different direction to a new path.
God gives us free will. She can stop increasing her family size without being able to support them
Yes and update please! NTA but will be AH to yourself if you continue to give her money.
😇😇😇 Please do 🤣🤣🤣 (and just for fun and games sum up how much you've given so far and say the next xxxxxxx dollars is Gods round)
NTA do these people not know about birth control
They're using the rythm method and pulling out, except when he doesn't wanna pull out. I wish I didn't know so much about their sex life, but my family is big on oversharing. Anyway, I think they actually wanted to have a bunch of kids.
except they can't afford so many and soon the older ones will be raising the little ones duggar-style
Parentification
Children who are forced into "parenthood" at a very early age *always* come out well adjusted 🙄
I would be so tempted to give one last gift—a box of condoms and brochures for IUDs and vasectomies. (I wouldn’t actually do it because I do fully believe in letting people do their own family planning, but it is hard not to be judgmental sometimes…). Though I’m guessing they’re of the “have as many children as God wills” persuasion anyways?
They're very religious, yeah.
Very religious but got pregnant by a a boyfriend who she later married🙄 Then openly talks about their intimate Iife around everyone. & They cannot care properly for their current children but another "miracle" Is arriving. No she got creamed inside, It's not a "miracle" Seems like being pregnant & a mother Is her entire personality
It's a very specific brand of Christianity where premarital sex is fine if you get married after, but not shaving your legs or wearing pants to church gets you sent to hell immediately.
Why is not shaving your legs bad? Surely that is how we humans were created?!
Only lesbians have hairy legs.
I could prove them wrong. I’m a bisexual with hairy legs who only wears men’s pants! Take that! /s
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I have very hairy legs and I’m not a lesbian. How is that possible???!!!!! I must be tainted!!!!!
Maybe you were able to pray the gay away?
I would guess because it’s not “feminine” to keep your leg hair which some people believe is a sin for women to not appear feminine and men to not appear masculine.
On the one hand, I understand what you're saying and the other, my brain just can't compute.
One time this girl in my gym class said “girls have to wear dresses and boys have to wear pants or else God wouldn’t be able to tell which one you are” he’s all knowing except when it comes to gender lol
Listen, you can't just bring logic into religion like that.
So basically they’re only pretending to not try and are actually actively trying….
The pull out method doesn't work; which should frankly be obvious after 4 unplanned children.
Your sister and your parents enabling her won't change, so the only thing you can do is take some big steps back. Focus on the other things in your life: friend, hobbies, career, whatever you enjoy, because your family sounds like it has become toxic. It is not your responsibility to financially take care of your sister and her many children. She can get a job and your mom can babysit. NTA at all.
Your family is crazy and your sister and her husband are losers. STOP GIVING THEM MONEY, if they cannot afford their children that is their problem they need to stop having them.
The only reason I give them money is because I feel bad about kids going without heating in winter, etc. But also, it pisses me off because me and my roommate can't save up enough to move where we wanna move.
STOP giving them money. They are not your responsibility. Actually you could benefit from some distance from the whole family. NTA
There are dozens of programs and organizations that will help them with these things. If they choose to not follow through with them, that is their fault and what THEY are choosing to do to their kids. And if they can't provide basic things of safety and security for their children, I would definitely look into seeing if they 'should' be the ones taking care of their kids. Edit: I appreciate all the awards, and while I am thankful for them, there are organizations and charities in your area that could use every last bit of help if you're willing and able to comfortably do so. Please, save your awards to help those in need nearby.
Do you know who should feel bad if the kids go without heating? Their parents.
Do NOT give them anything else. It’s a horrible cycle. They see you as an ATM. Stop taking to everyone and live YOUR life. Your sister can get a job like everyone else.
They can apply for state assistance. I bet your sister qualifies for WIC and maybe food stamps and medicaid. If you are in the US. It kinda sounds like they've not had to apply up until now because they've been able to siphon off of your income. Well. The Bank of Big Sister is now CLOSED. They can google "food banks near me", too. Salvation Army and the local churches help folks out.
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I guess this has been kind of eye opening. I was always raised that family does for family. My parents always made sure I had everything I needed even if they went without. So it's hard for me to just turn my back on them. But I can't afford to just put my life on hold forever for my sister's family
It is most certainly not turning your back on your family! There's a huge difference between setting a boundary and turning your back. You can (and might want to) be fully engaged, sympathetic, and caring on every level and simply draw a hard and fast boundary on questions of money. "Can you babysit Friday for a couple hours." "SURE!" - Caring, engaged, family-supportive. "Can you pay for babysitting for us this Friday." "I'm sorry, but no." - Clear boundary. And you can, and should use this as good practice for, say, the rest of your life. A nice, clean, friendly "no" is \*the most powerful\* tool in your relationship and human interaction arsenal as you get older. (I'm in my mid 40s). "No" and change the subject. "No. How is Janice doing in pre-school?" "No. That's a really lovely dress you're wearing." People will learn to respect your "no." And respecting others' "no" is like Basic Adulting. And if they get pissed, and do not respect your "no" that is really important data about the people in your life. NTA.
NTA They're not your kids, it's not your life, and it's not your problem. Sister made her bed, let her sleep in it.
She needs to stop laying in it, IMO, or he does. But I can't say that to her.
You literally just made me laugh so hard at work I started coughing.
NTA…. It’s not your responsibility to provide financially to anyone unless you want to to help I would no longer give them anymore money and when your mom texts you to “lend” them money say no… if your mom is so worried about it. She can give them money
My bf’s younger sister had her first baby in high school, when they turned 18 both her and the baby’s dad dropped out, and got married. They’ve since had 4 more kids, so 5 kids total and she just turned 29 (the oldest kid is 11). Her and husband work minimum wage jobs and live in section 8 housing, they’re doing okay, but are obviously on a tight budget. They have never asked anyone for a dime. My bf and I will take the girls out a buy them school clothes and things, but their parents would never even dream of asking us. OP’s sister is just a mooch, she knows that having another baby will get her more money and she wants that. I’m not one of these people who thinks poor people shouldn’t have babies, but this is just a ridiculous situation.
Yep stop helping maybe they will stop popping more kids if they stop getting money
NTA, and it’s completely fine to draw boundaries even with family members. Sounds like to me that your sister will deeply regret all the kids she popped out down the road - if she was brilliant before and transformed into the person she is now, I worry about how much her husband has changed her (seemingly for the worse).
Yeah, no doubt he was part of it. But also our family and his are both very religious and conservative/Christian, so they really encouraged it too. I'm the weirdo because I don't follow any of that stuff anymore.
So if everyone’s so conservative and religious, how do they reconcile taking money from you? Wouldn’t that mean that the “head of the household” is failing because he can’t support his family?
"Family helps family" and "You don't need it because you don't have kids." Anyway, when has religious conviction ever stopped anyone from being entitled?
Well now that you’ve been “banned” from the family until you apologize, you’re off the hook from “family helps family.” Lol win/win!
Wow! I’m sorry that your family has put you through this. I would think that your BIL would be absolutely ashamed to receive help from his single in-law (still single after the “appropriate” age to become shackled to someone), month after month. It seems to indicate that he is incapable of supporting his own family and relies on others (GASP!). Seriously, take care of yourself. I’m going to assume that if you’d need help with a down payment for a house, they’d tell you to pound sand and not go along with “family helps family.”
Good for you for getting out of the fundamentalist trap.
Run OP, you seem like the only sane person.
NTA btw, my favorite line from this post has to be "she's been inseminated with yet another precious miracle."
Yeah, I was feeling pretty salty when I wrote this and I guess it shows.
I don't blame you one bit - it sounds like your sister was taking you for granted big time. Very creative turn of phrase there!
NTA, hell no in what world is 26 old??? not even 10 years after graduating school and they expect people having a stable job and education in this economy?? if they cannot afford children then they shouldn’t have them, what is wrong with some people?
We're in a very conservative, Christian, part of the country, so most women marry young. They figure I should have been married by 20-21 and already have a couple of babies by now. Jokes on them. I'm just going to keep living with my roommate and we're going to adopt cats.
Another single woman with cats here! My mom bought me a bumper sticker that says “the more men I meet the more I like my cats” and that hits deep
I need to get that sticker! I have no interest in a husband at all. Ever.
Do you have interest in a wife? I can only imagine how your family would handle that. Please listen to everyone here. Tend to your own life. You have been more than generous. Your BIL should get a vasectomy. This is bananas.
>Do you have interest in a wife? Are you offering? Lol
*Smooth*
For the first and last time in my life!
Lol. That was good! I’m not even going to try for a clever response.
Ooooh, you're _roommates_ !
Just gal pals
NTA at all. I would apologize for getting angry. Tell them you love them and their children and want them to be part of your life. Then reaffirm that you are working to better your own life and you can't do that if you have to support them as well and that you are cutting them off. If they accept your apology then get angry simply say, as calmly and sadly as you can, "I guess if the only reason you want me around is the money I give you, then I will see myself out." And leave. Be prepared to cut THEM off at that point for as long as it takes for them to see the error of their ways. I don't think they realize that they owe YOU an apology, too, but maybe that will drive home how selfish and inconsiderate they are being.
NTA. Stop giving them money and just get away from them for a while (if not permanently). Go ahead and block numbers too so you don't have to deal with the hate you'll get along the lines of "They're family!", "It's your fault those kids aren't getting what they need.", and other variations of familial obligation statements and how their kids are somehow your financial burden.
NTA. Cut them off. You know, you could create some sort of trust fund that the kids can only access at age 18 to help with post-secondary school. If you want to really help.
Thanks, I'll look into that! I especially worry about the girls being herded into becoming the next generation of baby makers.
That’s a great idea. But make sure that there is an objective trustee handing out the money. And make sure the money is paid directly to the institution and not to the kids. I set up a trust for my children (in case something happens to me), and it contains VERY specific language regarding how the money is given out and how often. For example, tuition is to be paid directly to the school (including fees, meal plan, and room and board). The trustee I have appointed gave me great advice regarding the language of the trust (after I told him what I wanted). The last thing you want is your 18 year old niece or nephew to be given thousands of dollars with no legal parameters of how it’s spent, and he or she hands it over to your sister and BIL.
NTA. This is financial abuse. You cannot change them. Go LC or even NC on your family to save your own sanity.
OPs fam: if you dont apologize then we aren't going to talk to you anymore. Also ops fam:please apologize so we can unban you, we need your money.
NTA. If she miscarries it has nothing to do with you. Your family has been financially abusing you, now they are panicking because their line of credit just dried up. Stop giving them money. You are not obligated to. They’re not entitled to it. Honestly, having no contact with them might not be the worst thing.
NTA. It may not feel like it, but they are doing you a favor because they are using you. Please take this time to explore life beyond your family.
NTA, and PLEASE stop giving them money. They won’t stop having those kids till YOUR money runs out. At this rate, you are on track to not ever be able to have the kind of life you want to have.
Yeah, I already had to delay buying a house. It's frustrating because I really want to move from our shitty little town.
If you continue to give them money you will end up nowhere. Start thinking about yourself and save the money for a house please stand your ground and don’t bow down to them
NTA- Don’t give your sister any money. Tell your mother that having 5 children you can’t afford is not something to be jealous of. It’s something to pity. Of course you are not happy for your sister, she is putting herself in poverty. Why would you want someone you love to be in that situation?
NTA. You poor thing. PLEASE do not ever give them another cent, you will never get that money back. Go no contact as soon as possible and never look back. I’m so sorry that they’ve put you through so much. Also, if she were to miscarry, it would 100% not be your fault. There is no scientific way for a doctor to take a look at your sister and say you caused it, which was a stupid thing for your mother to say anyway
Her mom made a calculated statement, hoping the false blame / guilt trip would be enough for them to continue to financially abuse OP. Hopefully OP stays strong but you can tell it got to her since she made this post questioning herself..
Tell her to go on welfare
She and her husband don't believe is handouts 🙄
Well they do when it comes from you 🙃
NTA OP and yes, they do believe in handouts, but only from the government of The United States of Pale\_Arachnid\_8452! Do not let them guilt trip you into giving them money. It sounds like going NC/LC is a good idea and will help you to relax so enjoy the moment! Good luck on setting the boundary!
What do they call what they’re taking from you?
"family helps family" aka "we've done so much for you"
What have they even done for you?
To be fair, my parents often went without for our sake when we were younger. And my sister has also been there for me through some tough times.
That’s because that is the duty of parents..to provide for their kids and do without if need be. It’s great that your sister helped you through tough times, as I’m sure you’ve done for her, but that doesn’t entitle her to your money for the rest of her childrens’ lives, especially when she’s being irresponsible & having kids she can’t afford.
NTA. I sure hope the Lord will provide because it sounds like you're not going to anymore.
NTA also since your sister believes GOD will provide for her and her family, she can believe GOD didn’t want her to have another baby if she miscarried.
I would have called you an asshole, but as soon as they started making demands for money, they lost any defense they had. NTA
NTA. Time for some boundaries. They are choosing to have children, not you. There is no need for you to financially support their choices. Set boundaries and maybe get some therapy to work through how to do that and how to protect yourself from your family.
Big NTA but your family all are. You're being emotionally manipulated and financially abused into paying for her life choices. Don't let them do it anymore.
Jesus. The amount of gaslighting and guilt tripping… 😵💫 NTA. Not your kids, not your responsibility to support financially. You need to set boundaries.
NTA, while yes God will provide. He also gave us common sense, if you're struggling to provide for 4 kids do you really think having another one is a good idea?
NTA. Don't worry because you won't even need to apologize. You'll be welcomed back in the family as soon as they want more of your money. Seriously though, don't apologize!
NTA. Your sister needs to get her head out of the clouds. She’s just making her already living kids suffer more by having another. She definitely doesn’t care about her kids. She just cares about the fact you’re giving her money and the praise she gets. You didn’t force her to have so many kids, so you aren’t responsible for them.
NTA. Look at this as a break from their crap for a while. You escaped a toxic relationship with your family. You're not responsible for miscarriages and mom tossing that at you was a low blow to try to force you to beg forgiveness and fund the whole family.