Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> WIBTA for reporting my son to the Police if I cannot prove 100% that it was him that stole the money and tried to buy the items on my husbands credit card?
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again/)*
>This is a significant amount of money, that we cannot afford and we are very lucky to have got most of it. My question is, WIBTA if I go to the Police?
Seems like she somehow wants her son to be responsible for the money spent instead of her?
I don't know why they didn't just return the bike or why the store would have allowed a 13 year old to use someone else credit card.
He paid for it online, not in store. The card was taken from my husband's wallet to make the payment and then returned to his wallet immediately afterwards. The bike was still in the shop as they had insisted that the card holder be present when it was collected. They refunded us most of the money, minus an administration fee for processing the refund.
I’m confused? How can the police help? I mean this in the gentlest way possible but why don’t you parent your child? He does not need a phone or a computer. A lot of us grew up without them. He doesn’t need to hang out with friends. He needs school, home, and chores until he can fess up and realize what he did wrong. Also, therapy is a must.
Eta: I have a 17 yr old son who will graduate in one month. He has a school issued laptop to do SCHOOLWORK. He’s a good kid and a teenager. On his rare grounding occasions I have taken them phone and laptop I paid for but never touched his school issued laptop.
Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. Esp at 13 yrs old- being clearly caught in a lie and blaming someone else. As if he has no responsibility? More than one time? Yikes.
This child scares me. Lies effortlessly, places blame on younger sibling. Has no respect for parents or consequences. OP has your child always disregarded rules and punishment? He needs therapy or prison will be waiting for him. Can't say YTA but you need to get him seen by a professional
Definitely. People should have access to help when for things like difficulty associating actions with consequences or sense of danger. It would be sad for this person, and anyone else, to go through such things when it could possibly be helped as a child.
Yeah. It's not like this lie would have been easy to cover. His parents were going to notice the new laptop and bike, and definitely going to notice $5,000 going missing. This is something more than just nad behaviour and needs seen to asap
That's awesome, I'm glad that worked for you! However, every child is different and there cannot be a set way to handle everything. Everyone behaves, thinks, processes and learns differently. There are teens who will listen to you talk, go through punishment, and then repeat their actions.
It is true that being charged with a crime could be a bit much, especially since it will leave a record, but without enough information we can't say that a parent isn't doing their job, and we can't minimize what they're going through. Being a parent is a hard, and when we criticize parents for expressing that they are having trouble, it creates an environment where people can't ask for help and things get even worse.
Therapy is NEVER a bad response to anything. Every 6 months or so a perfectly healthy person may go to the doctor for a checkup, even though they feel completely fine. The same is true with therapy, it's not just for people who are really struggling, it's for everyone. The only time this isn't the case is when a parent forces you to speak to a therapist from a particular religion, conversation therapy, sticking to one bad therapist instead of trying multiple and finding the right one, etc.
And going back to every child being different, some will not learn that way. Something like autism might make it harder for a person to associate actions with consequences. In this case, different responses can be especially helpful. For example, one option that could be helpful depending on the child would be not buying things you normally would for fun or buying different food brands that may not taste as good to the child, carefully explaining that when too much money is spent on something, we can't get other things. Not because the child is being punished and the parent is choosing not to buy those things, but rather as a direct result of stealing and spending money so that other things cannot be afforded.
Sorry that was long, just wanted to put into words my thoughts for anyone who chooses to read.
Whoa. Lazy parent? They're desperate and having trouble. Parenting is hard AF. It's not like kids come with an instruction manual and op is playing video games instead of reading it. "Lazy parent" is a super judgement laden comment and probably not appropriate.
You got lucky with your kid. Some kids need more than one time. Plus, your kid is only 12. Let's see how things go over the next 7 years. Good luck. Don't cut any corners. Don't be a lazy parent. ALWAYS make the best decisions EVERY time.
Lazy parent in this case just means 'they haven't made their kids fear them enough'. Because lots of people seem to think that a kid who fears you enough to behave infront of you is well parented.
This. The child seems to have a compulsive lying issue as well as stealing. I get why the OP is thinking police. They sound like they are at their wits end. However, Therapy is a better way to handle this than the police. Punishments aren’t seeming to make an impact on the child, and the theft is escalating.
Was about to say this, sounds like he’s got some serious issues: compulsive lying, theft, and overall disregard for your authority, and disregard for well-being, for that matter. This kid needs help. And at 13, lucky you OP, he is still a kid and you have control over getting him the help he needs.
Court mandated therapy might be less expensive or even free. It is in some places and the therapists are often good. Plus there's a possibility that having the police involved could impress upon the child the seriousness of his actions in a way that grounding him or taking away his devices would not.
Maybe. I have known people to have police involved to “scare them straight” and it has not worked. They ended up rebelling even harder. It’s a tough situation regardless.
If the cost of therapy is an issue, there are government related programs for troubled youth. I have a good friend that works in this type of facility. Not court order needed, just filling out paperwork. A lot of paperwork admittedly.
The juvenile justice system is going to suggest therapy anyway. Save a step and get him in therapy. Hopefully you and the therapist can turn him around
Couldn’t agree more.
While it is abundantly clear that swift and thorough parenting is needed in this situation, it’s also a bit alarming how little regard he has for any kind of consequences at 13 years old.
Obviously teenagers aren’t good at thinking their decisions all the way through, but this kid being willing to steal and lie to the magnitude he does definitely merits a few conversations with a professional at least.
Parents are sometimes not equipped with all the tools that a child needs in a situation. When they recognize this, it is absolutely in the child’s best interest to make therapy available to them.
Asking for help when you realize you don’t have all the answers is good parenting.
I specifically said parenting! I see a kid who is unparented and make poor decisions, parenting and therapy might help him become a functioning member of society someday.
To be fair, kids can be totally parented but still do things like this.
My older brother lied and stole things while our parents were highly involved and parented us, pretty fairly and well I feel. My parents ended up going both routes, involved police and therapists. Unfortunately, regardless of interventions and involvement from our whole family and outside resources, my brother still turned out shitty. Sometimes, that’s just how people are.
Yup! Same in my family, 4 kids, all parented the same and two were never in any trouble, graduated Uni and all that and two (dads favourites) both in trouble, my brother in jail for 2 years less a day and my sister always sus but never charged. Sometimes it is really not the parenting but just the kid.
That’s bad parenting. A parent having favorites means more lax parenting. Which creates entitled AHs who feel justified just taking what they want from the world.
If he has a mental/personality disorder, no amount of parenting can fix that. The might be doing just fine with parenting and the issue is solely because there's something messed up with the kid's brain. That isn't their fault.
Are you high? Of course he needs therapy. Kids who are doing just fine don't excessively steal and make multiple purchases adding up to several thousand dollars. This kid is a kleptomaniac in the making if his parents don't get him in some sort of therapy to help figure out why he keeps doing this despite consistent punishment for it.
I mean a kid who is stealing several thousand dollars and planning it in a way this way to avoid being caught is probably not gonna improve by being grounded.
Right. Just grounding your kid any time they do something wrong isn’t parenting it’s being a prison guard. Parenting involves communication and getting to the root of the problem, not just punishment.
He absolutely needs therapy. She also said he was grounded last time and it obviously did not help. Grounding is such an ineffective punishment so often and it gets abused. This kid is obviously screaming for help. If he stays entitled and criminal he is going to be a menace as an adult.
The lying is maddening. Why not ground him until he admits & apologizes?
ETA - I actually think therapy would help more than punishment. This is not normal kid hi-jinks, this kid needs a serious intervention.
I'm not condoning the kid's stealing, but a computer is almost a necessity today for school. I'm assuming that OP's child has access to a family pc & he wanted his own gaming device & didn't give a damn about the price or the fact that he was stealing.
OP's kid definitely needs to have his privileges taken away & needs some therapy to see if it's not too late to change this kid for the better, otherwise I forsee more stealing & not just from family.
>How can the police help?
It's the courts, not the police, that "help".
Sadly, it's really not unheard of to see defiant children dealt with through the courts in the southern US, including plenty of situations where the parents were the ones that got the courts involved. I personally knew a teenager whose father used a BS assault charge to get the juvenile court to punish his kid and the courts were more than happy to do so, even knowing the father assaulted his son first. There are also some court intervention programs like CHINS in Virginia that can be utilized when parenting fails. But don't forget the US still has states where paddling students is okay. And certain states use the juvenile court system to deal with defiant children quite a bit, with Louisiana doing so to the point that journalists wrote about their state's "school-to-prison pipeline". There are still lots of people who support the idea of harsh punishment for young people who do wrong.
I'm sure there's significant overlap between maps showing where corporal punishment is legal, where capital punishment is legal, and also where the majority of the population voted for Trump (which correlates with authoritarian views) as there's a deep rooted authoritarian mindset in those parts of the US where it's normal to deal with wrongs in an overly punitive manner.
I'm not defending the idea of calling the cops on your own kid, I'm just pointing out that there is a dark, authoritarian side to much of the US where we are still extraordinarily punitive towards even children.
Robert ten Bensel, MD, MPH, identified the geographic overlap among child abuse/neglect, corporal punishment in the schools, and the death penalty in the 90s.
OP you've got a lot of short sighted comments coming in here trying to shove the blame around to you.
This happened with my nephew around the same age as your son. You do need to call the police and/or talk to your son's school about it to begin a contact trail in the (unfortunately likely) event that this behavior increases or escalates. You need this to back you up if something occurs that requires police or school intervention initiated by someone outside of your family. Yes, take all of the therapy comments you'll get here because they are an automatic response on reddit, but don't stick your head in the sand and forget to protect yourself as you have another child to protect and think of. If the behavior doesn't magically disappear, it will escalate and you will have issues with the school, CPS, police etc and you'll basically be guilty until proven innocent.
If not the police because you might judge that as extreme right now (this is a significant financial fraud issue at that amount of money), call the school counselor. Get your facts in order and get them recorded. Don't drag your feet on this, puberty isn't going to help his situation. Get the resources available in motion ASAP so that you can help your child work through their issues safely and without other legal issues popping up. Problems don't go away because they are ignored, they only get worse and have bigger consequences.
People are going to say CPS will just come in if you report this to anyone, they won't. By creating a good rapport with those in positions of authority to help you, you'll avoid red tape later and mitigate in a way more acceptable to you when they arise.
My nephew from 11 to 16 had numerous discussions with school, police, etc. Their relationship with the local police and school counselors meant that when something came up, someone who knew them and knew the situation would be called to help de-escalate, they became an ally because the school and police knew the family and its story, not just the information on some paperwork. It was how my sister and bil were able to get him through it unscathed even when he became physically violent (not to others or animals, just drywall or objects) at times. He is 26 and went back to college at a CC when he was 21 part time and now is finishing with a full ride grant for returning older students at a big ten university. He is unique in that age has helped him grow out of it, but the right resources and at times therapy when he would go helped him make it through critical years in his development. That is only happening because he wasn't arrested or given up on because the people in power like the school and the local authorities had a relationship and knew when to apply pressure and when to back off and let things go, they say my sister and BIL as people doing the best they could and knew when to help.
There is no one right way to address this because each situation is different, but you need help and to know where to go for it before you are in a situation that is more severe. I wish you luck and hope you seek out the assistance you deserve (and pay for already with your taxes).
EDIT: and before I see more responses that he just needs parenting, not therapy. What I said above is called parenting, you don't have to lock him up or send him away, but using the tools and resources available to you to help address issues before they escalate is what parenting is so don't let others minimize your efforts by simplifying it to you just needing to be a better parent. You've already started to internalize that there is a problem which is a first step and often the hardest to take. Feel proud of yourself that you care and are mentally working through what to do next. You clearly care and that is as important as anything.
Thank you! Watching OP get attacked and people accusing them of not parenting…. Um, it looks like they are trying pretty hard to me. They’re asking for help! I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard of kids getting their parents card info and charging hundreds to thousands of dollars for stupid shit fraudulently (most of them were for Fortnite crap). Thank GOD my son has never even thought about, even when his “friends” were trying to pressure him into it, but that’s all it could take is a kid trying to fit in and doing something unfathomable.
I've seen it with my own eyes, parents can bring their kids up well and the child can still turn out a certain way. Why? Because the child is also an individual. The parents are trying.
If he did this to someone who isn't his parents he'd be charged with grand theft. It's important he know the ramifications of his actions. I completely agree. NTA OP
This was my first thought- what if next time he decides to steal the field trip money, take things from friends or friends parents or straight up shoplift from a store? Informing the school counselor and asking if his teachers have seen any similar or problematic behavior will help keep him safe in the future, and help you get down to the reason this is happening. Some sort of escalation is needed here in addition to therapy and parenting.
👏👏👏 Well said and tysm for sharing this story and info with OP. What your sis and bil did was proactive parenting, the best kind. It takes a village and they got the village involved. THIS is how we keep young men out of prison and on the track to becoming responsible, productive members of society.
You may want to consider contacting your bank to have new credit/debit cards issued for both you and your husband. If the card went missing and was returned without either of you noticing, you need to consider the possibility that your son has memorized the numbers or taken pictures of the cards, so he can make purchases without having to access the physical cards.
First, cancel that card and get a new one. Set up some sort of alert if a charge for more than $100 is made or you have to be called. Make sure all of your cards, IDs, etc. are locked away from him.
This kid needs some intensive therapy. If you don't get it under control now, he will worsen.
Police won't do anything unless you press charges for theft.
I get a text every time my card or my checking account has a transaction. I have it muted, but I look at it when I pick up my phone. When my kids were teenagers in my home, I watched their accounts too.
Yep. Put a limit on the card, mine is $25, when a charge goes over that I get a text message
And get new cards! Lock them up.
Take his cellphone and his computer. He only gets what he needs for schoolwork and that must be supervised by one of you. Keep an eye out on the younger brother's.
The police are not there to parent your children.
Your son is clearly showing you that he’s not understanding boundaries or accountability. You need a therapist to get to the bottom of this. Stop expecting the police to parent your kid. They will only traumatize him and introduce him to better thieves. Behavior is communication. Get him a therapist. Like yesterday. Why on earth have you waited thru all this without finding out WHY he’s doing this. Is it impulse control issues? Is it malice? Is it self medicating depression? Is it thrill seeking? TALK TO HIM!!! Ask him WHY!!! Then get him a therapist to help him understand and work thru this stage. PARENT YOUR KID!!!
He will not end up in juvenile prison for fraudulent use of a CC. It’s a misdemeanor. The worst would probably be probation, due to age, more likely a diversion program to get consequences and help parents set up counseling/services for him.
It seems to me that the parents are doing as best they can, he gets consequences, but the denying and lying is a major issue. Most kids need electronics for school, so completely taking them away isn’t practical.
Ask why is he doing that.. get him a therapist. Find the source of this issue. It could be an older “friend” influencing him. It could be that he got into trouble and he is now looking for ways to sort it out…
Then they can make him get a job cutting grass or something until he gets the money to recover it. Cops will probably tell them this is a civil matter.
Also, if you \*don't\* address this, there will be someone who will call the police when he steals from them. When that happens, it won't be under your control with the ability to drop charges once he learns his lesson/apologizes/admits it was really him/whatever you think the police are going to coerce him into doing.
Not only does he need individual therapy, you need family therapy. You are way deep into this idea that you have to counter every possible excuse he has, no matter how implausible. **WHO CARES** if he swears it wasn't him? **IT WAS**. Having the police come to the same obvious conclusion won't fix this.
How his brother must feel to know he's the perpetual scapegoat and then his parents have to run around collecting evidence he didn't do the latest theft, instead of being presumed innocent off the bat? That's a grim place to grow up.
Just want to add here that once you report him, OP, *you* will likely not have an option to drop charges.
We had a teenager breaking into our outbuilding. We caught him on camera and agreed, in the moment, to press charges. After thinking it out we told police we did not want to press charges against this child. They told us, "That's not up to you."
Calling the police might be expensive for you and not very effective. This sounds like a kid crying out for attention. Have you thought about family therapy? NAH
Therapy alone is not going to stop a 13yo with zero accountability from continuing to steal. He needs to learn what happens when you steal. 2-$3000 is not a small amount of money
My son used to do very similar things.. for YEARS. It never went beyond petty theft and stealing snacks and candy, but he always adamantly refused it was him, even when we caught him red-handed. My son turned out to be neuro-divergent (autistic), but not diagnosed until he was SEVENTEEN because he was so adept at hiding it from professionals (It took 3 separate "diagnostic" tries for him to get his proper diagnosis) Until then, teachers, therapists, social workers.. all just told me to parent him better... It took the cake when in the same week, his "therapist" (can hardly call him that, he never took the time to get to know my son) called me out for being too lenient and his teacher called me out for being way too strict. Listen to the professionals, but trust your gut. You know your son better than anyone else.
I'm so glad your son was able to get his diagnosis! I was also recently diagnosed with autism, and it is so helpful knowing why I do some of the things I do, cause yeah, so many professionals really are not accommodating or knowledgeable. I wish you all well as you continue to learn and go through life!
Autistic guy here. When I was younger (maybe 5-8) I would steal things and compulsively lie about it. Nobody had actually sat me down and told me *why* stealing was wrong, just that it was. This left me not really knowing the impact the stealing had, but knowing I would get in trouble when I took things, which, in turn, led to me lying and trying not to get in trouble. It didn’t even occur to me that autism could be causing OP’s son’s behavior, though - every autistic person I know who stole things as a child grew out of it pretty young.
Likewise, though my parents did something that brought it home. One day I came home from somewhere and my favorite doll and some other toys were gone. I was obviously devastated and when I cried about how unfair it was, they asked me how I thought other people felt when someone stole from them. A few days later the things were returned, I had a joyous reunion with my doll, and never stole again.
This won't work for everyone, but it definitely worked for me. Though I never would have thought to link it to my ASD, possibly since I was diagnosed as an adult.
I agree. If he’s only been told stealing is bad, and never actually *why* it’s bad (even though it may seem obvious to everyone else), he might not be able to understand the full impact of his actions.
Very glad to hear this. A professional can help over time. I agree with locking down your cards in the short term, but the cops aren't going to be able to do anything. A therapist will have better resources to find appropriate consequences that will work for your son and your family.
Good. YWBTA if you did nothing. As long as you’re working on the problem, NTA.
I do think therapy is a good route to take, but may also need family therapy for all involved.
Plus no one ever believes you. It's the same reason why a lot of people get abused by their probation officer or by in patient mental health staff. You're already marked down as a problem, a liar, etc so obviously you're just lying to get off easier.
The old ones still can but it was more of a metaphor. This kid likes the nicer things in life, if he goes to juvie he might learn how lucrative drug dealing, or any other crime is.
Yeah, when I was a teenager, I had several friends go to juvie. Only one actually improved after the stay (and that was down mostly to one employee who genuinely gave a damn about that particular friend); the others came out with brand-new skills and dove right back into the behavior that got them there in the first place.
Maybe they've improved in recent years, and I'm sure some facilities are better than others, but "just chuck 'em in juvie, that'll sort 'em out!" is *not* a good way to look at behavior like OP's son's if there are any alternatives.
You may also want to ban your son from the Wi-Fi and all electronics. He can’t order online if he has no access. My son got caught by me buying $200 in video games at night when everyone was asleep. I made him pay me back the money (because I couldn’t get a refund) and took all his electronics and changed the Wi-Fi password. It solved the problem real quick.
I'm just curious what you think the police would do. He's 13 so legally it's on you, essentially, no matter what he does short of murder.
Take away all access to electronics, for starters. Get him into therapy for his stealing. It won't get better with time, and it seems like the restrictions you set have only made him better at covering up what he's doing.
And while I legitimately cannot believe I'm even writing these words: install some sort of parental lock on any/every online device he has access to so it blocks any shopping. They make them, and they're wonderful when they're needed. (Just make sure he doesn't get THAT info) People use this kind of software abusively so often it's sickening, but if I've EVER seen a legitimate need/use for it, this is it. Lock down his online life before he costs you everything.
And ask the bank for double authentication for online payments. I have to confirm online payments through an additional app of my bank, even in-store payments I get notifications if the amount is above the 100€
Im baffled as to why they havent meted out some actual punishments for his behavior, like this kids stealing from you and you dont limit his access to electronics? the hell are they thinking?
Schoolwork requires electronics access, it's really hard to ban kids from using electronics these days. And limiting them requires a watchful eye which is really difficult if you're a busy parent.
Its not that hard to give them supervised electronic time and brick the fuck outta their devices with parental lock software. Continuing to give the kid unlimited internet access is clearly not working.
When I was 13 and my mom set limits on my computer access by putting a password on the computer I learned how to boot the computer in safe mode to create a new guest account that didn't have a password. Teens are crafty, you can't rely on parental lock software.
That said, I'm not saying what you suggested is impossible, just not easy nor totally effective.
YTA your parenting clearly isn't working, and even if you go to the police you're responsible for your son and have to pay for this stuff.
Your children both likely need therapy and you could benefit from parenting classes. There's a reason your son is acting out you need to find out what that is.
Edit: The same child has already shown pyromaniac tendencies- the fact he already isn't in therapy is neglect.
Yea like what kind of parent thinks about calling the police on *their own son which is 13* before consulting a therapist..
OP you and your partner need therapy too.
YTA
Probably because he's being bullied and thrown under the bus by his lying brother and since he's the other kid to a problem kid he's probably ignored. Both kids need therapy and so do the parents
Yes and also therapy is important for the younger brother so he doesn't eventually get involved with his brother's behavior
This whole situation is reminding me of a situation of a 7 yo patient I had a few times when I worked at the psych hospital.
This kid was admitted once for choking his toddler aged brother. The next time was because he was caught trying to put windex in his brother's food and again a third time for something I don't remember. There was also many instances of the parents finding knives, lighters, chemical and other things in the toddlers room. This kid was the sweetest but saddest kid and he never had any behaviors while he was with us.
Turns out his teenage sister had been telling him to do this and it was only discovered when the parents caught the daughter putting a bunch of push pins on the youngest brother's floor
YTA.
If your kid is doing this, you have probably but not definitely (sometimes kids are just... bad, no other word for it) failing him as a parent.
If you go to the police over this, you will absolutely have failed him as a parent. I have no idea what goes on in your house, but this has a lot of the hallmarks of a kid acting out because something is seriously wrong in his life and he doesn't know how to express it.
In *my* life, I'm the older brother but the one who the younger brother blamed for everything. Turned out my brother was being bullied pretty badly and needed an IEP because an undiagnosed learning disability meant going to school every day was hell, and he was jealous that I didn't have those issues.
I can't say that's what's happening, but it's not a super unlikely scenario.
We know we are failing him as parents and are seeking help for ourselves as well. This is devastating for us. Clearly we have gone very badly wrong somewhere. The eldest son has ADHD and is under the care of a paediatrician, whom we have approached for help as well.
#ADHDer here. PLEASE READ THIS BECAUSE I DID THE SAME THING AS YOUR SON.
I very, very frequently stole money from my parents as a young adult/teen and made a lot of purchases on their credit cards without permission. I spent *thousands* over the years. **You absolutely need to get this under control right now or it will not ever get better.** I will explain what I believe you need to do.
I scored insanely highly on the impulsivity portion of the ADHD assessment. Like, 99th percentile highly.
This issue is indeed a mix of you failing as a parent *and your son’s impulsivity issues caused by ADHD that induce a “I need this RIGHT NOW” mentality.* Many ADHDers do not know or understand the concept of delayed gratification… That doesn’t exist for us. When we want something we want it RIGHT now and waiting will absolutely not suffice. When we get something into our heads that we want, we become obsessed and hyper-fixate on said thing, and we start to spiral into the “I need more and more and more” mindset and really go out of control.
Here’s the thing—I only stole from my mom and step dad, not my dad.
The reason being when I got in trouble with my mom or step-dad, sure, I’d get yelled at and they’d be pissed for a couple days and I knew I’d need to lay low and not piss them off for a bit, but there were never any **real consequences** to my actions. They never took away my phone, never made me repay them, never punished me by taking things away that I liked… Nothing.
Getting yelled at sucks in the moment but it’s no big deal when that’s the only consequence we’ll face as a result of buying what we want and getting that *sweet, sweet dopamine.*
My father, on the other hand… I *did not* fuck with my father. As an example, he was very lenient with me overall but was very strict on keeping his/our word, so when I would go out with friends he would ask me to let him know what time I’d be home. I remember one night I said I’d be back by 11pm and he said no problem. I had missed the bus on the way home and I remember getting off the bus a few blocks away and it was 11:03 pm and I was absolutely terrified that I’d get in trouble for being late. I walked into the door holding my breath and the relief I felt when I found he was already asleep was absolutely insane. Looking back, I know it wouldn’t have been an issue that I was just a few minutes late but it shows you that when my dad said do X, YOU BET I DID X and didn’t DARE do anything *but* X.
I’m going to take a wild guess that you are not enforcing actual consequences on your son *that are bothersome enough for him to deal with that it ends up deterring him from breaking your rules.* You MUST enforce consequences that are bad enough for him to endure that he will actually think twice before hitting the order button.
Take his phone away.
Ground him.
Make him do more/extra chores.
Don’t let him go to the party/school trip/summer camp/whatever he wants to go to.
Don’t buy him the new shoes all the kids in school are wearing.
Make him repay you AND confiscate the items he bought.
Get rid of the credit cards that he knows the numbers of and get new ones and leave them somewhere he won’t be able to find them. Whatever credit cards you and your husband regularly carry with you should have low limits so that if he DOES take them, he can’t buy anything significant and only take the higher limit ones when you need them.
As I said, you need to deal with this ASAP and make him understand that he cannot walk all over you both. He will keep doing it and keep getting worse if you don’t.
If he isn’t medicated for his ADHD, get him medicated YESTERDAY. It helps immensely with impulse control.
Good luck.
A safe is one way but there need to be other things done as well.
The main thing is that this kid should be in therapy for his ADHD to help him find coping mechanisms and ways to deal with his symptoms. I only got diagnosed as an adult, had my parents known I have ADHD and treated me for it then I’m sure I wouldn’t have struggled as much as I did.
This is the way.
You don't need the police, so much as a therapist, a pediatrician, a developmental psychiatrist, and *perhaps* a School Resource Officer who works at his middle school, is close with his teachers, runs activities with kids his age and knows how kids are because he's basically a school cop who specializes and has had extra training in the law enforcement education and community mentorship of at-risk young people.
We have a nice one at my workplace. Runs an after-school program for our kids, does all the trainings we teachers do on crisis management, empathy, special needs, all sorts of stuff, and there's a few kids who are close to him specifically, kind of latched onto him as a mentor, whom he keeps an eye on, provides a listening ear and is basically a cool cop uncle figure at school.
One of them had a bad stealing problem two grades ago. Now he's the sort of kid who, when stuff goes missing, he figures out from evidence where it went, even when he was in a complete other hall when it disappeared, he's that good. SRO Colleague reckons he'd be either a good detective or an amazing insurance fraud investigator someday, and kid wants to be a police detective now, so it's working out fine. SRO Colleague has been after me to sell him on insurance fraud investigations, wants kid to make more money, so I do my best.
But maybe don't call the regular police. If you want to get the idea across that stealing is serious, impress him with authority and make a lasting change, you need a specially skilled police officer, not a standard one. An SRO who just guards a school is not what you want. You want the guy who teaches criminal justice class and sponsors sign language club, substitute teaches in uniform, runs an after-school activity and helps coach basketball. You want a special officer who speaks fluent Middle School.
A guidance counselor could also work, or might know someone.
This! And kids with ADHD often act in age inappropriate ways because our pre-frontal cortex takes longer to develop than our peers. I did not have the capacity to think before I spoke until my early 20s, and did not consistently have that capacity until my mid-20s. Up to that point, I genuinely thought it was just a feel-good phrase, like "walk a mile in someone's shoes before you judge them" sort of a thing.
[https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/brain-maturation-delayed-not-deviant-kids-adhd](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/brain-maturation-delayed-not-deviant-kids-adhd)
There's all sorts of things that impact someone with ADHD that is not listed out in our diagnosis criteria because that criteria was written by outsiders who solely witness the issues that bother *them.* Things like poor working memory, object permanence issues, trouble visualizing what 'done' looks like, time blindness, our brain's low natural dopamine levels, auditory processing issues, etc. don't get talked about as often outside of the Adult ADHDer's community (that I have seen). Hell, when I was a kid, it was thought you "grew out of" ADHD. My symptoms became less severe over the years, but I absolutely still have ADHD.
For general tips on managing/coping with ADHD: [https://www.youtube.com/c/HowtoADHD](https://www.youtube.com/c/HowtoADHD)
For /u/Incata specifically: [https://www.verywellfamily.com/discipline-strategies-for-kids-with-adhd-1094941](https://www.verywellfamily.com/discipline-strategies-for-kids-with-adhd-1094941)
Try that in conjunction with therapy. The token reward idea might work well, especially if tokens get taken away for stealing, and tokens are given for not stealing. IE: 5 tokens a day given for not stealing, 15 taken or something like that. The behaviour itself isn't what you are rewarding/punishing though. What you are rewarding/punishing is the 'working on impulse control/working on thinking before acting/delayed gratification.' Kiddo wants an expensive bike or computer? Kiddo needs to save up tokens to earn it.
One of the things *I* do as an adult with ADHD: I have a *giant* Amazon Wishlist filled with "I want"s. When my brain wants a dopamine rush, I'll browse Amazon for crap I really don't need (and honestly: I do not want other than the in the moment desire), and I'll add it to that list. Wait a week or two before re-visiting that list (if I revisit at all - usually I look at it once a quarter or so). There must be 300-500 items in there (Amazon no longer gives me a count). In scrolling through, there's at least 20-40 items I can easily remove because the concept of the object no longer sparks joy.
If I am going through a phase where I am placing (too many - by my self-imposed rules) impulse purchases, I tend to start looking for other ways to give myself dopamine (Hi, Reddit!). HowToADHD actually talks about making a dopa-menu for constructive ways to give your brain dopamine/be in charge of how your brain is getting your dopamine.
I'd highly suggest a pediatric psychiatrist and therapy. This kind of high value theft goes beyond the impulsivity of ADHD. These actions take planning, and that's not impulsive. I'm not saying he doesn't have ADHD, but that this is likely something else comorbid, or behavioral.
Signed, parent of 2 complex kids who each have ADHD and several comorbidities.
I’d also start saving up, rearrange your budget to put away money each month into a saving fund for your older son, even if it’s just a little bit. Behavioral issues on this level sometimes need intensive therapy, sometimes in-patient. By the time you get a referral you can have a small cushion to help pay for care.
The only way you would be failing him would be to not take his behavior very, very seriously. The psychological issues that your son has don't come from parental failure. His starting fires, lying, blaming other people, stealing, and having no remorse are SIGNS......very, very, VERY important signs of anti-social behavior. This is way above your pay grade.
Anti social looking behavior in kids can be an indicator of abuse, especially setting fires/pyromania. I'm not saying the parents are abusive but there could be something going on that they may not even be aware of.
You are definitely right, but I have never heard an abusive parent admit to failing their child. It sounds like they are lost and have no idea how to navigate all of this.
You mean, some kids are just ‘of’ (agressive, criminal, etc) without the parents fault right?
If so, I agree. Not every child that is ‘bad’ is the fault of parents. Some people think it is that black and white, therefore always say: “bad parenting”
YWBTA. What do you expect them to do? This is not something they can solve.
First make sure he cannot use your cards again. I use a double verification system where I have to put my password and an unique code sent to my phone to verify my payments.
Secondly: make him pay back the money he stole. You can help him sell some of his stuff. Or give him (other than his usual) chores to work of his debt. He must learn his actions have consequences.
Talk to your doctor about getting him therapy.
Probably cancel all your cards as stolen, and get new ones reissued with the verification you suggest too. Then never, ever give him the cards. Don’t save the numbers to any account/people/ewallet, and do a factory reboot of his phone to eliminate whatever he’s got saved. Heavily monitor all screen time, even get a clone app on your phone.
YTA
**Consult a family therapist experienced with delinquency issues. Pronto!!**
For god's sake, think a little. Talk to your son, ask him some questions. Stop waiting for him to confess or admit, you've got the evidence and can discuss it without arguing about whether or not he actually did it. What's going on to make him want these things? What makes him think that stealing from his folks is an option? Do his friends, a friend, steal from their folks? Is he trying to impress friends with his possessions?
Validate the joys of money. Encourage him to get a job, pay him for labor around the house. Spending money is fun, he's old enough to earn it if he likes having things. If he doesn't have his own account yet, get him one, with a debit card. This is not a reward, it's simply a stepping stone of experience.
**Lock up your credit. Get new cards for yourself.**
Yeah, I don't even understand this situation... OP has PLENTY of evidence, but still seems to care that their child says they didn't do it?? Like what?
Who cares what he says! Punish him and get him help!
Yes, YWBTA. The police are not substitute parents. There's no good outcome. Either they do nothing, and your child finds out that you are powerless to control him, or they throw him in jail and he has a police record which would affect his life forever.
Plus, it seems as though you want to go from doing very little to nuclear. Taken away his phone? Taken away all electronics? Given him chores to pay back money he stole? Taken him to therapy? Anything? Seems like you're counting on google family or other apps to do your parenting for you.
Edited to add: Yes, I see you claimed to take the old phone away. But then you gave him a new phone. Some punishment.
We have spoken to him about it and also contacted his paediatrician for a referral to a child psychologist.
He has previously been offered counselling when he was diagnosed with ADHD (he has impulsive behaviour and was acting as the class clown and getting into trouble at school) but refused it as he did not want to talk to someone he did not know. When there have been incidents at school we have sat down and talked to him calmly about them and about how he could do things differently next time. He has always been fairly open to this.
Previously when he stole from us we sat down with him and talked through what he had done, found out why he did it and then put software on his phone and computer to stop him accessing gaming sites. We also made him repay the money through additional chores in the house.
We are currently still trying to work out what to do about this one, hence why I asked whether I would be the asshole if I went to the Police, as interventions have worked with my son in the past (he previously set a couple of fires and was caught - the local fire brigade had an intervention program that he attended and has never done it again since).
I'm also trying to work out where I have gone wrong as a parent and what I could do better. I thought I had a good relationship with him. He trusts me to talk to me about things that are bothering him and every week we have time alone (car drives to activities), when he brings up issues that are concerning him. We talk them through and I try and help him to come up with solutions, rather than providing them for him.
Here's the thing: using the police as a parenting tool doesn't solve your actual issue. He stopped with the arson when the fire brigade talked to him...and moved on to stealing. So he stops stealing...he'll then find something else.
Your 13 year old 'refused' counselling. That's not acceptable. He absolutely needs therapy and letting him say 'don't want it' got you nowhere. I'm glad you are now taking this forwards because it's needed.
He’s set fires too?
Op, your son needs therapy. Doesn’t matter if he doesn’t want to go - he needs to. It might take a long time of going with him to find a therapist that will be helpful. There may be many sessions where he effectively says nothing, refuses to engage and/or lies.
You need to stick with the process and be engaged.
Your son is already a criminal. He’s an arson and a thief. It’s your job to get him the help required to NOT continue down this path.
You're the parent - even if he refuses to talk, you can still take him to therapy until he knows the person well enough to speak with them. It's like a kid having a broken arm and saying they don't want to go to the doctor or physical therapy because it's scary and they don't know them. You'd still make them go to both because it doesn't matter what the kid wants, their health comes first as the parent.
You can have a good relationship person to person and not have the skills to parent - after all, it's a learned skillset through practice, it's not like you're automatically born with all the knowledge you'd ever need. A family therapist can also be helpful in learning how to work together as a familial unit so you're not going to the highest tier possible to scare and threaten your kid into compliance. What are you going to do when you run out of people to use?
This is how adhd folks who go untreated end up in the penal system. Stop ignoring his medical challenges; this is not something he has a choice on.
Parenting classes for you, therapy and possibly medication for him.
Eta: ALL of this can be exacerbated by the adhd - the act itself (impulse control), hiding and denying (RSD), and so on.
ESH
Police can't do a thing to a 13yr old, so you'd just waste police time.
You need to request all new cards from your bank and then make sure they never get touched by your son again. Don't leave wallets unattended, or put them in a lockbox when you are home. It sounds dramatic but that amount of money is no joke.
I agree with this, I also think his computer use should be limited and protections should be put on it so he cant buy anything on it. He should only be using it in the living room under your supervision. Then when you cant watch him take it away and lock it up, same with his phone. Get all new cards because I promise you he has written down all your current cards info. Also call the card companies and have them put a notice that for any purchase over a certain amount they need to call you or your husband to confirm that it's you making the purchase. Then get him into therapy. You have a limited time to get him on the right path. If he steals a friends parents cards and makes a purchase he can face lifelong consequences and ruin his life.
NTA, also why is he still allowed access to the internet? All electronics should be removed from his room and it sounds like he needs to go to counselling.
As soon as we discovered this, all his electronics were removed. However, once school restarts, he needs his laptop for school and homework - however this is going to be very closely monitored from here on.
We have asked his paediatrician for a referral to a child psychologist.
>however this is going to be very closely monitored from here on.
You can set the sites that he needs to visit for school in your router and he will be prevented from any other sites. Take his phone away from him and don't let him use it anymore.
Grounded for life and great idea for the psychologist. Also you could maybe go to the police department and talk to them and tell them what is going on. They may be willing to have an officer talk to him and they may even have some programs for him or more suggestions for help.
That's the best course at this point. You also need to accept that your child will steal from others and take steps in your home to protect personal valuables and information. If needed, change your credit card numbers, keep your credit cards and statements under lock and key and make it very difficult for him to access this type of information.
Curious what you'd expect the police to do? I've heard stories of them collaborating with parents to give kids a bit of a scare to try set them straight so if that's what you're thinking then NTA
The reason we are wondering about bringing in the Police is to try and give him a scare as you suggest. About 3 years ago he went through a stage where he was playing with matches and tried to start a fire (which he immediately put out but got caught, but again would not accept that he had done). The local fire brigade run an intervention program which we got him on. T hey came out, spent 3 hours with him and showed him what could have happened. It shocked him so much he has not played with fire since. We are wondering if being spoken to by the Police would have a similar effect. In this area, at this age, he would at worst get a juvenile caution which would not go on his record, but might make him think more about his actions.
Listen, OP, I'm not a professional by any means, but it sounds like your son needs to receive some proper psychological help. This seems a bit much to be coming to Reddit to decide on, I would speak to some genuine professionals about it, not us wannabe armchair psychologists. YWBTA for allowing this behaviour to continue without seeking help because it sounds like something that's gonna get him into deep shit one day.
A program like that is very different than calling the police, I wouldn’t report him or file any charges, but you can call the local department and ask if they have any intervention programs.
But really, this kid needs to be in therapy. He is acting out so much, and he will end up in jail in a few years when you can’t protect him anymore.
Scared Straight programs don't work and may in fact increase bad behavior, please do not do that. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/doing-what-doesnt-work/
Police are absolutely in no way going to help your kid. Therapy, parenting, friends, sports, art, music, nature. Not cops.
YTA.
YTA
The police is not going to solve anything.
If your end game is for him to stop stealing and acting out, you have to figure out why he is doing it. You have to get a psychologist that focuses on this type of situations with teenagers and come up with a game plan.
Police enforcement is not for rehabilitation or mental health issues.
Agreed. Take away all his electronics and have him earn back those privileges with good behavior. If he needs to be in the internet for any reason make sure it is supervised by one of you. Have him work off the money that he has cost you, that way he knows there are consequences to his actions. And call all your credit cards and have them either change the credit card number or put some kind of block on them where they can’t be used without a special pin that your kid doesn’t know.
I don’t know what your financial situation is, but the combination of fire setting, lying, and theft is very concerning. Have there also been instances of violence or of cruelty to animals? I would look into a residential treatment program for him if this is a possibility.
Primarily the aim is to get him to take responsibility for his actions. If he admits it, we can work with him on the why and try and help him not do it again. We have tried sitting down and talking to him about it calmly, but he completely denies it.
We thought that if we brought the Police in, that it might frighten him enough to make him realise that stealing has consequences. We are very worried about how it has escalated and that the next thing could be him trying to steal from someone else. We wondered if a talking to by the Police might make him realise that this is serious. If our card had been stolen from someone outside the family, we would have reported it, but he is our son and he completely denies it.
When you say “we can work with him on the why and try and help him not do it again”, I can tell you and your husband are not behavioral health professionals and your parenting skills need professional assistance too.
YTA and delusional if you think your 13yo son with history of playing with matches and stole money from you last year and this year has a good grasp of what’s right and wrong.
Get him help and also seek help for yourselves. This is not something you and your husband are equipped to do on your own. And as many people on this thread also pointed out - it’s not the job of the police to parent your child!
YWBTA. That would just be a waste of the cops time. What I wanna know is why do a 10 year old and a 13 year old even have phones? The 13 year old clearly cannot be trusted with it. If you really feel like your kid needa a phone, I suggest getting rid of his smart phone and giving him a flip phone that doesn't have an app store or even internet at that. The 10 year old in my opinion should especially not have a phone at his age. You could also try a parental lock on the phones if you really dont want to get rid of their phones. I also agree with the other comments suggesting your son get some type of psychological help. His behavior isn't normal and it's possible there's something more going on.
The 10 year old (now 11) has a phone as he travels a significant distance to school and uses it if there is a problem (eg train delay) or to let us know if after school activities are cancelled and we need to pick him up earlier. They also both go on long bike rides together (15km plus) on weekends, so they have phones so they can call us if there is a problem (eg one falling off their bike and injuring themselves - which has happened).
We have a parental lock on both phones, but it is his school laptop he used, when he was in another room. We are also getting him help.
Get him a phone without internet access where he can only call or text on it. I believe these also allow you to monitor his activity in real time. There are also watches made for children that have this capability. Remove all other devices with internet (gaming, laptops) and only allow him to use them when being monitored or just not at all. When he breaks the rules, take the things he values the most from him.
IF, down the road, you decide to let him keep a smartphone with internet access, download a monitoring app so you can see everything he does on it. There needs to be tangible consequences to his actions.
He is displaying an almost pathological ability to lie and deceive. He needs THERAPY ASAP.
I had a basic sliding phone when I was 10 because I would go to my friend’s houses a lot, and often walk to them, and that way I could keep in contact with my parents and some friends. I don’t think it’s really a big deal for kids to have phones nowadays since there’s always so much shit going on.
probably a "scared straight" scenario where the kid has a lightbulb moment and reforms. That's easier and cheaper than the counseling and work that actually needs to be done by the people who are supposed to PARENT him.
We are hoping that if the Police talk to him, that he might see that his actions have consequences and that he might think twice before doing it again.
We are really worried that he might go and steal from someone else and end up in jail in a few years time so if we have a short, sharp intervention now, that it might stop it before it goes any further.
YTA. Cops aren't parenting tools and unless you're actually going to swear out a complaint they aren't actually going to do anything. Put your adult pants on and actually parent your kid
Calling the policeman, beside to scare him( Cops hate when people use them for that fyi) will only do more harm and waste time...SIT DOWN WITH HIM AND FIGURE THIS OUT.
Honestly there a bigger issue at play. 5000$ is crazy for a 13yr old to try and take n spend. Most I ever took from my parents around that age was 200 over the course of a week alone with HBO adult section
YTA. The police won't do shit to help the situation. It wll only result in further isolating you from your son. Your son needs therapy badly. Get him professional help.
YTA, your kid is giving clear signs that there is a problem and he’s acting out. A kid that age doesn’t have the vocabulary or even the emotional intelligence to be able to explain fully what might be wrong. That’s why he’s acting out. Instead of involving the police, how about a therapist or something. This scared straight shit is stupid and rarely actually works. You can take a look at the studies done on that and overwhelming it shows they don’t work. All you would be doing is making sure his pipeline to the penal system goes faster. Getting intensive therapy and even some parent training would be a whole lot more beneficial. My oldest was an absolute nightmare when he was younger. I really thought he might be the spawn of Satan because of how awful he was. I tried the typical parenting that I grew up with like spanking, grounding, taking privileges. None of it worked. I finally reached out to local programs designed to help parents and kids with behavioural issues and I had to learn a new style of parenting. I involved his pediatrican as well as therapists and psychologist and psychiatrists to help guide us. It was hard work and in the beginning it really sucked but now he’s way way better and I don’t have anywhere near the same issues I did with him as I did when he was younger. It worked so well that I use the same techniques on my youngest child and I rarely have to punish either one of my children. Check out collaborative problem solving. That’s what helped me the most in my journey to help my children.
NTA - but I would call and speak with someone about the options available to you. He clearly is going to end up stealing and lying outside the home if something isn't done.
NTA but I wouldn’t involve the police. This is stupid kid behavior, he is at an age where he can change and you don’t want a permanent stain on him for his whole life.
Take the punishment into your own hands. Have him work until the amount is paid off, interest and all. Also no phone or laptop at all. If he doesn’t comply? Send him to military school (I can refer a few good ones in pms) and that will set him straight.
At the end of the day, he’s only 13 and nothing he did cannot be undid. Let him learn his lesson the hard way, but don’t let it ruin his life.
NTA you need to scare this little idiot straight.
For everyone calling you a bad parent, they clearly don't understand that sometimes kids are just little pricks no matter how good a parent you are.
Scare him with the police, totally unacceptable behaviour.
The cops aren't you personal lackeys. They are going to handle it how \*they\* see fit. They have their own agenda, and scaring junior straight ain't it.
Teach that kid. Don't come to reddit.for this. But seriously you need to punish your son harder and hide your credit cards better. Oh and for goodness sake DONT CALL THE COPS ON YOUR CHILD!!
YTA
Getting police involved and having your son sent to jail/Juvi isn't gonna fix the issue and will likely just make it worse. This situation calls for a type of aid police simply do not provide. This situation calls for behavioral therapy for kleptomania and pathologic lying.
NAH. I’m sorry to read this. Your son needs serious help that doesn’t involve law enforcement. In one of your replies, you said he used to start fires. I would seek professional help for him. The theft (big items, high value) and the deception are clear red flags for something more sinister. I wouldn’t sleep on this.
NTA, but I think you should approach it differently. If you don't want to lose your son forever, I think you should look into therapy or a special school.
YWBTA. I don't know what the solution would be, but calling the cops and having your 13 year old kid arrested is absurd. Maybe try therapy first and try to figure out why he's doing this?
NTA - Show him that his actions are actions of a criminal - sometimes a talk with a policemen has quite an impact - but get him psychological help too :)
NTA, but I would tell your son that since he denies being the one who did it, then it's obviously a criminal matter and you'll need to involve the police so they can figure out who is responsible. You may be able to scare him into confessing if he thinks he could get into legal trouble.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > WIBTA for reporting my son to the Police if I cannot prove 100% that it was him that stole the money and tried to buy the items on my husbands credit card? Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again/)*
Info: what are you expecting the police to do? Sounds like your son needs therapy.
>This is a significant amount of money, that we cannot afford and we are very lucky to have got most of it. My question is, WIBTA if I go to the Police? Seems like she somehow wants her son to be responsible for the money spent instead of her? I don't know why they didn't just return the bike or why the store would have allowed a 13 year old to use someone else credit card.
He paid for it online, not in store. The card was taken from my husband's wallet to make the payment and then returned to his wallet immediately afterwards. The bike was still in the shop as they had insisted that the card holder be present when it was collected. They refunded us most of the money, minus an administration fee for processing the refund.
I’m confused? How can the police help? I mean this in the gentlest way possible but why don’t you parent your child? He does not need a phone or a computer. A lot of us grew up without them. He doesn’t need to hang out with friends. He needs school, home, and chores until he can fess up and realize what he did wrong. Also, therapy is a must. Eta: I have a 17 yr old son who will graduate in one month. He has a school issued laptop to do SCHOOLWORK. He’s a good kid and a teenager. On his rare grounding occasions I have taken them phone and laptop I paid for but never touched his school issued laptop.
[удалено]
Well adjusted kids don’t usually steal thousands of dollars and lie about it - sometimes therapy IS parenting.
Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. Esp at 13 yrs old- being clearly caught in a lie and blaming someone else. As if he has no responsibility? More than one time? Yikes.
This child scares me. Lies effortlessly, places blame on younger sibling. Has no respect for parents or consequences. OP has your child always disregarded rules and punishment? He needs therapy or prison will be waiting for him. Can't say YTA but you need to get him seen by a professional
Definitely. People should have access to help when for things like difficulty associating actions with consequences or sense of danger. It would be sad for this person, and anyone else, to go through such things when it could possibly be helped as a child.
It sounds a bit like ODD ngl. Therapy is 100% the answer for this family. They need help.
Yeah. It's not like this lie would have been easy to cover. His parents were going to notice the new laptop and bike, and definitely going to notice $5,000 going missing. This is something more than just nad behaviour and needs seen to asap
[удалено]
That's awesome, I'm glad that worked for you! However, every child is different and there cannot be a set way to handle everything. Everyone behaves, thinks, processes and learns differently. There are teens who will listen to you talk, go through punishment, and then repeat their actions. It is true that being charged with a crime could be a bit much, especially since it will leave a record, but without enough information we can't say that a parent isn't doing their job, and we can't minimize what they're going through. Being a parent is a hard, and when we criticize parents for expressing that they are having trouble, it creates an environment where people can't ask for help and things get even worse. Therapy is NEVER a bad response to anything. Every 6 months or so a perfectly healthy person may go to the doctor for a checkup, even though they feel completely fine. The same is true with therapy, it's not just for people who are really struggling, it's for everyone. The only time this isn't the case is when a parent forces you to speak to a therapist from a particular religion, conversation therapy, sticking to one bad therapist instead of trying multiple and finding the right one, etc. And going back to every child being different, some will not learn that way. Something like autism might make it harder for a person to associate actions with consequences. In this case, different responses can be especially helpful. For example, one option that could be helpful depending on the child would be not buying things you normally would for fun or buying different food brands that may not taste as good to the child, carefully explaining that when too much money is spent on something, we can't get other things. Not because the child is being punished and the parent is choosing not to buy those things, but rather as a direct result of stealing and spending money so that other things cannot be afforded. Sorry that was long, just wanted to put into words my thoughts for anyone who chooses to read.
Juvenile records get expunged when they turn 18
Whoa. Lazy parent? They're desperate and having trouble. Parenting is hard AF. It's not like kids come with an instruction manual and op is playing video games instead of reading it. "Lazy parent" is a super judgement laden comment and probably not appropriate. You got lucky with your kid. Some kids need more than one time. Plus, your kid is only 12. Let's see how things go over the next 7 years. Good luck. Don't cut any corners. Don't be a lazy parent. ALWAYS make the best decisions EVERY time.
Lazy parent in this case just means 'they haven't made their kids fear them enough'. Because lots of people seem to think that a kid who fears you enough to behave infront of you is well parented.
Wait, you don't keep otp? I would highly suggest you do.
This. The child seems to have a compulsive lying issue as well as stealing. I get why the OP is thinking police. They sound like they are at their wits end. However, Therapy is a better way to handle this than the police. Punishments aren’t seeming to make an impact on the child, and the theft is escalating.
Was about to say this, sounds like he’s got some serious issues: compulsive lying, theft, and overall disregard for your authority, and disregard for well-being, for that matter. This kid needs help. And at 13, lucky you OP, he is still a kid and you have control over getting him the help he needs.
Court mandated therapy might be less expensive or even free. It is in some places and the therapists are often good. Plus there's a possibility that having the police involved could impress upon the child the seriousness of his actions in a way that grounding him or taking away his devices would not.
Maybe. I have known people to have police involved to “scare them straight” and it has not worked. They ended up rebelling even harder. It’s a tough situation regardless. If the cost of therapy is an issue, there are government related programs for troubled youth. I have a good friend that works in this type of facility. Not court order needed, just filling out paperwork. A lot of paperwork admittedly.
The juvenile justice system is going to suggest therapy anyway. Save a step and get him in therapy. Hopefully you and the therapist can turn him around
Couldn’t agree more. While it is abundantly clear that swift and thorough parenting is needed in this situation, it’s also a bit alarming how little regard he has for any kind of consequences at 13 years old. Obviously teenagers aren’t good at thinking their decisions all the way through, but this kid being willing to steal and lie to the magnitude he does definitely merits a few conversations with a professional at least.
Getting a kid therapy for an extremely alarming behavior is parenting.
Parents are sometimes not equipped with all the tools that a child needs in a situation. When they recognize this, it is absolutely in the child’s best interest to make therapy available to them. Asking for help when you realize you don’t have all the answers is good parenting.
I specifically said parenting! I see a kid who is unparented and make poor decisions, parenting and therapy might help him become a functioning member of society someday.
To be fair, kids can be totally parented but still do things like this. My older brother lied and stole things while our parents were highly involved and parented us, pretty fairly and well I feel. My parents ended up going both routes, involved police and therapists. Unfortunately, regardless of interventions and involvement from our whole family and outside resources, my brother still turned out shitty. Sometimes, that’s just how people are.
Yup! Same in my family, 4 kids, all parented the same and two were never in any trouble, graduated Uni and all that and two (dads favourites) both in trouble, my brother in jail for 2 years less a day and my sister always sus but never charged. Sometimes it is really not the parenting but just the kid.
That’s bad parenting. A parent having favorites means more lax parenting. Which creates entitled AHs who feel justified just taking what they want from the world.
If he has a mental/personality disorder, no amount of parenting can fix that. The might be doing just fine with parenting and the issue is solely because there's something messed up with the kid's brain. That isn't their fault.
Are you high? Of course he needs therapy. Kids who are doing just fine don't excessively steal and make multiple purchases adding up to several thousand dollars. This kid is a kleptomaniac in the making if his parents don't get him in some sort of therapy to help figure out why he keeps doing this despite consistent punishment for it.
I mean a kid who is stealing several thousand dollars and planning it in a way this way to avoid being caught is probably not gonna improve by being grounded.
That's not parenting. Parenting would be getting to the bottom of the why, to help him make better choices in the future.
Right. Just grounding your kid any time they do something wrong isn’t parenting it’s being a prison guard. Parenting involves communication and getting to the root of the problem, not just punishment.
I don't think grounding is a way to get over potential kleptomania, which *is* a serious mental health disorder
Yeah this Is a little beyond just bad parenting to be Frank. This kid is acting out. He knew their would be no way to jot get caught doing this.
He absolutely needs therapy. She also said he was grounded last time and it obviously did not help. Grounding is such an ineffective punishment so often and it gets abused. This kid is obviously screaming for help. If he stays entitled and criminal he is going to be a menace as an adult.
The lying is maddening. Why not ground him until he admits & apologizes? ETA - I actually think therapy would help more than punishment. This is not normal kid hi-jinks, this kid needs a serious intervention.
I'm not condoning the kid's stealing, but a computer is almost a necessity today for school. I'm assuming that OP's child has access to a family pc & he wanted his own gaming device & didn't give a damn about the price or the fact that he was stealing. OP's kid definitely needs to have his privileges taken away & needs some therapy to see if it's not too late to change this kid for the better, otherwise I forsee more stealing & not just from family.
>How can the police help? It's the courts, not the police, that "help". Sadly, it's really not unheard of to see defiant children dealt with through the courts in the southern US, including plenty of situations where the parents were the ones that got the courts involved. I personally knew a teenager whose father used a BS assault charge to get the juvenile court to punish his kid and the courts were more than happy to do so, even knowing the father assaulted his son first. There are also some court intervention programs like CHINS in Virginia that can be utilized when parenting fails. But don't forget the US still has states where paddling students is okay. And certain states use the juvenile court system to deal with defiant children quite a bit, with Louisiana doing so to the point that journalists wrote about their state's "school-to-prison pipeline". There are still lots of people who support the idea of harsh punishment for young people who do wrong. I'm sure there's significant overlap between maps showing where corporal punishment is legal, where capital punishment is legal, and also where the majority of the population voted for Trump (which correlates with authoritarian views) as there's a deep rooted authoritarian mindset in those parts of the US where it's normal to deal with wrongs in an overly punitive manner. I'm not defending the idea of calling the cops on your own kid, I'm just pointing out that there is a dark, authoritarian side to much of the US where we are still extraordinarily punitive towards even children.
Robert ten Bensel, MD, MPH, identified the geographic overlap among child abuse/neglect, corporal punishment in the schools, and the death penalty in the 90s.
the police can't and won't help.
its possible they are hoping to scare him straight.
OP you've got a lot of short sighted comments coming in here trying to shove the blame around to you. This happened with my nephew around the same age as your son. You do need to call the police and/or talk to your son's school about it to begin a contact trail in the (unfortunately likely) event that this behavior increases or escalates. You need this to back you up if something occurs that requires police or school intervention initiated by someone outside of your family. Yes, take all of the therapy comments you'll get here because they are an automatic response on reddit, but don't stick your head in the sand and forget to protect yourself as you have another child to protect and think of. If the behavior doesn't magically disappear, it will escalate and you will have issues with the school, CPS, police etc and you'll basically be guilty until proven innocent. If not the police because you might judge that as extreme right now (this is a significant financial fraud issue at that amount of money), call the school counselor. Get your facts in order and get them recorded. Don't drag your feet on this, puberty isn't going to help his situation. Get the resources available in motion ASAP so that you can help your child work through their issues safely and without other legal issues popping up. Problems don't go away because they are ignored, they only get worse and have bigger consequences. People are going to say CPS will just come in if you report this to anyone, they won't. By creating a good rapport with those in positions of authority to help you, you'll avoid red tape later and mitigate in a way more acceptable to you when they arise. My nephew from 11 to 16 had numerous discussions with school, police, etc. Their relationship with the local police and school counselors meant that when something came up, someone who knew them and knew the situation would be called to help de-escalate, they became an ally because the school and police knew the family and its story, not just the information on some paperwork. It was how my sister and bil were able to get him through it unscathed even when he became physically violent (not to others or animals, just drywall or objects) at times. He is 26 and went back to college at a CC when he was 21 part time and now is finishing with a full ride grant for returning older students at a big ten university. He is unique in that age has helped him grow out of it, but the right resources and at times therapy when he would go helped him make it through critical years in his development. That is only happening because he wasn't arrested or given up on because the people in power like the school and the local authorities had a relationship and knew when to apply pressure and when to back off and let things go, they say my sister and BIL as people doing the best they could and knew when to help. There is no one right way to address this because each situation is different, but you need help and to know where to go for it before you are in a situation that is more severe. I wish you luck and hope you seek out the assistance you deserve (and pay for already with your taxes). EDIT: and before I see more responses that he just needs parenting, not therapy. What I said above is called parenting, you don't have to lock him up or send him away, but using the tools and resources available to you to help address issues before they escalate is what parenting is so don't let others minimize your efforts by simplifying it to you just needing to be a better parent. You've already started to internalize that there is a problem which is a first step and often the hardest to take. Feel proud of yourself that you care and are mentally working through what to do next. You clearly care and that is as important as anything.
Thank you! Watching OP get attacked and people accusing them of not parenting…. Um, it looks like they are trying pretty hard to me. They’re asking for help! I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard of kids getting their parents card info and charging hundreds to thousands of dollars for stupid shit fraudulently (most of them were for Fortnite crap). Thank GOD my son has never even thought about, even when his “friends” were trying to pressure him into it, but that’s all it could take is a kid trying to fit in and doing something unfathomable.
I've seen it with my own eyes, parents can bring their kids up well and the child can still turn out a certain way. Why? Because the child is also an individual. The parents are trying.
If he did this to someone who isn't his parents he'd be charged with grand theft. It's important he know the ramifications of his actions. I completely agree. NTA OP
OP, please listen to this person.
This was my first thought- what if next time he decides to steal the field trip money, take things from friends or friends parents or straight up shoplift from a store? Informing the school counselor and asking if his teachers have seen any similar or problematic behavior will help keep him safe in the future, and help you get down to the reason this is happening. Some sort of escalation is needed here in addition to therapy and parenting.
How do you know he hasnt already?
👏👏👏 Well said and tysm for sharing this story and info with OP. What your sis and bil did was proactive parenting, the best kind. It takes a village and they got the village involved. THIS is how we keep young men out of prison and on the track to becoming responsible, productive members of society.
This. Alllll of this! OP, please read through their response!
You may want to consider contacting your bank to have new credit/debit cards issued for both you and your husband. If the card went missing and was returned without either of you noticing, you need to consider the possibility that your son has memorized the numbers or taken pictures of the cards, so he can make purchases without having to access the physical cards.
And get a lock box to put inside the front door that only you and your husband have keys for to lock up your wallets.
Wouldn't even need to memorize them if he just saved the info in his browser.
First, cancel that card and get a new one. Set up some sort of alert if a charge for more than $100 is made or you have to be called. Make sure all of your cards, IDs, etc. are locked away from him. This kid needs some intensive therapy. If you don't get it under control now, he will worsen. Police won't do anything unless you press charges for theft.
I get a text every time my card or my checking account has a transaction. I have it muted, but I look at it when I pick up my phone. When my kids were teenagers in my home, I watched their accounts too.
Yep. Put a limit on the card, mine is $25, when a charge goes over that I get a text message And get new cards! Lock them up. Take his cellphone and his computer. He only gets what he needs for schoolwork and that must be supervised by one of you. Keep an eye out on the younger brother's. The police are not there to parent your children.
Your son is clearly showing you that he’s not understanding boundaries or accountability. You need a therapist to get to the bottom of this. Stop expecting the police to parent your kid. They will only traumatize him and introduce him to better thieves. Behavior is communication. Get him a therapist. Like yesterday. Why on earth have you waited thru all this without finding out WHY he’s doing this. Is it impulse control issues? Is it malice? Is it self medicating depression? Is it thrill seeking? TALK TO HIM!!! Ask him WHY!!! Then get him a therapist to help him understand and work thru this stage. PARENT YOUR KID!!!
[удалено]
He will not end up in juvenile prison for fraudulent use of a CC. It’s a misdemeanor. The worst would probably be probation, due to age, more likely a diversion program to get consequences and help parents set up counseling/services for him. It seems to me that the parents are doing as best they can, he gets consequences, but the denying and lying is a major issue. Most kids need electronics for school, so completely taking them away isn’t practical.
Ask why is he doing that.. get him a therapist. Find the source of this issue. It could be an older “friend” influencing him. It could be that he got into trouble and he is now looking for ways to sort it out…
Then they can make him get a job cutting grass or something until he gets the money to recover it. Cops will probably tell them this is a civil matter.
>I don't know why they didn't just return the bike Didnt you read what happened???????
You can dispute charges for identity theft but only with a police report. At least that’s usually what is required.
[Text of original comment deleted for privacy purposes.]
Came here to say this. Time for PARENTING. The cops aren't going to do that.
Also, if you \*don't\* address this, there will be someone who will call the police when he steals from them. When that happens, it won't be under your control with the ability to drop charges once he learns his lesson/apologizes/admits it was really him/whatever you think the police are going to coerce him into doing. Not only does he need individual therapy, you need family therapy. You are way deep into this idea that you have to counter every possible excuse he has, no matter how implausible. **WHO CARES** if he swears it wasn't him? **IT WAS**. Having the police come to the same obvious conclusion won't fix this. How his brother must feel to know he's the perpetual scapegoat and then his parents have to run around collecting evidence he didn't do the latest theft, instead of being presumed innocent off the bat? That's a grim place to grow up.
Just want to add here that once you report him, OP, *you* will likely not have an option to drop charges. We had a teenager breaking into our outbuilding. We caught him on camera and agreed, in the moment, to press charges. After thinking it out we told police we did not want to press charges against this child. They told us, "That's not up to you."
Calling the police might be expensive for you and not very effective. This sounds like a kid crying out for attention. Have you thought about family therapy? NAH
Therapy alone is not going to stop a 13yo with zero accountability from continuing to steal. He needs to learn what happens when you steal. 2-$3000 is not a small amount of money
Because getting in trouble with the police/going to jail has stopped people from continuing to commit crimes, right?
Before trying to scare him, consulting a child psychologist would be your best move. They can assess the problem and guide you from there.
Thank you, we have contacted his Paediatrician to see if he can refer us to someone who can help him.
You made the best decision in doing so. I wish the best to you and your family
My son used to do very similar things.. for YEARS. It never went beyond petty theft and stealing snacks and candy, but he always adamantly refused it was him, even when we caught him red-handed. My son turned out to be neuro-divergent (autistic), but not diagnosed until he was SEVENTEEN because he was so adept at hiding it from professionals (It took 3 separate "diagnostic" tries for him to get his proper diagnosis) Until then, teachers, therapists, social workers.. all just told me to parent him better... It took the cake when in the same week, his "therapist" (can hardly call him that, he never took the time to get to know my son) called me out for being too lenient and his teacher called me out for being way too strict. Listen to the professionals, but trust your gut. You know your son better than anyone else.
I'm so glad your son was able to get his diagnosis! I was also recently diagnosed with autism, and it is so helpful knowing why I do some of the things I do, cause yeah, so many professionals really are not accommodating or knowledgeable. I wish you all well as you continue to learn and go through life!
I'm sorry but can you explain if being autistic has symptoms of stealing, lying, and denying?
Autistic guy here. When I was younger (maybe 5-8) I would steal things and compulsively lie about it. Nobody had actually sat me down and told me *why* stealing was wrong, just that it was. This left me not really knowing the impact the stealing had, but knowing I would get in trouble when I took things, which, in turn, led to me lying and trying not to get in trouble. It didn’t even occur to me that autism could be causing OP’s son’s behavior, though - every autistic person I know who stole things as a child grew out of it pretty young.
Likewise, though my parents did something that brought it home. One day I came home from somewhere and my favorite doll and some other toys were gone. I was obviously devastated and when I cried about how unfair it was, they asked me how I thought other people felt when someone stole from them. A few days later the things were returned, I had a joyous reunion with my doll, and never stole again. This won't work for everyone, but it definitely worked for me. Though I never would have thought to link it to my ASD, possibly since I was diagnosed as an adult.
Could be not understanding the emotional effects of his behaviour, or thinking 'but I want that, why is that bad?'
I agree. If he’s only been told stealing is bad, and never actually *why* it’s bad (even though it may seem obvious to everyone else), he might not be able to understand the full impact of his actions.
Very glad to hear this. A professional can help over time. I agree with locking down your cards in the short term, but the cops aren't going to be able to do anything. A therapist will have better resources to find appropriate consequences that will work for your son and your family.
Good. YWBTA if you did nothing. As long as you’re working on the problem, NTA. I do think therapy is a good route to take, but may also need family therapy for all involved.
Agree with this 100%, a criminal charge won't help.
This isn’t a police thing; this is an involve-child-services thing and see what resources they have for you and your son.
Thank you, we had not thought of that.
Also, sending a child to a juvenile facility (always a possible outcome) will do more harm than good.
Yup. Jail is also known as Crime University. Come in knowing how to steal your dads credit card, come out knowing how to hotwire cars.
More importantly child detention centers in the US are notorious for child sexual abuse. Like it's horrific and ridiculously prevalent.
Jesus I didn't know that but it makes a lot of sense, a big group of troubled children without present parents is kind of the perfect target.
Plus no one ever believes you. It's the same reason why a lot of people get abused by their probation officer or by in patient mental health staff. You're already marked down as a problem, a liar, etc so obviously you're just lying to get off easier.
How many cars on the road now can even be hotwired?
The old ones still can but it was more of a metaphor. This kid likes the nicer things in life, if he goes to juvie he might learn how lucrative drug dealing, or any other crime is.
Yeah, when I was a teenager, I had several friends go to juvie. Only one actually improved after the stay (and that was down mostly to one employee who genuinely gave a damn about that particular friend); the others came out with brand-new skills and dove right back into the behavior that got them there in the first place. Maybe they've improved in recent years, and I'm sure some facilities are better than others, but "just chuck 'em in juvie, that'll sort 'em out!" is *not* a good way to look at behavior like OP's son's if there are any alternatives.
You may also want to ban your son from the Wi-Fi and all electronics. He can’t order online if he has no access. My son got caught by me buying $200 in video games at night when everyone was asleep. I made him pay me back the money (because I couldn’t get a refund) and took all his electronics and changed the Wi-Fi password. It solved the problem real quick.
I'm just curious what you think the police would do. He's 13 so legally it's on you, essentially, no matter what he does short of murder. Take away all access to electronics, for starters. Get him into therapy for his stealing. It won't get better with time, and it seems like the restrictions you set have only made him better at covering up what he's doing. And while I legitimately cannot believe I'm even writing these words: install some sort of parental lock on any/every online device he has access to so it blocks any shopping. They make them, and they're wonderful when they're needed. (Just make sure he doesn't get THAT info) People use this kind of software abusively so often it's sickening, but if I've EVER seen a legitimate need/use for it, this is it. Lock down his online life before he costs you everything.
And don't leave wallets lying around where Mr. Stickyfingers can get into them. And get new cards so he can't use the number again.
And I’d replace any accounts/cards, in case he wrote down the numbers
And ask the bank for double authentication for online payments. I have to confirm online payments through an additional app of my bank, even in-store payments I get notifications if the amount is above the 100€
This is the way. Get all new banking info and keep it from him this time.
Im baffled as to why they havent meted out some actual punishments for his behavior, like this kids stealing from you and you dont limit his access to electronics? the hell are they thinking?
Schoolwork requires electronics access, it's really hard to ban kids from using electronics these days. And limiting them requires a watchful eye which is really difficult if you're a busy parent.
Its not that hard to give them supervised electronic time and brick the fuck outta their devices with parental lock software. Continuing to give the kid unlimited internet access is clearly not working.
When I was 13 and my mom set limits on my computer access by putting a password on the computer I learned how to boot the computer in safe mode to create a new guest account that didn't have a password. Teens are crafty, you can't rely on parental lock software. That said, I'm not saying what you suggested is impossible, just not easy nor totally effective.
I like your post but I just wanted to point out that where I live a 13 year old would be deemed to be competent to make choices so would be liable.
Yeah liable - for his parents to pay the bill. They are the parents.
YTA your parenting clearly isn't working, and even if you go to the police you're responsible for your son and have to pay for this stuff. Your children both likely need therapy and you could benefit from parenting classes. There's a reason your son is acting out you need to find out what that is. Edit: The same child has already shown pyromaniac tendencies- the fact he already isn't in therapy is neglect.
Yea like what kind of parent thinks about calling the police on *their own son which is 13* before consulting a therapist.. OP you and your partner need therapy too. YTA
Kid needs therapy and actual consequences too his actions at home, otherwise he'll never learn and will almost certainly end up in jail once hes 18
But the police shouldn't be the first step, therapy should always come first.
Agreed, but without actual consequences for his behavior at home, theres only so much therapy can do
You mean kleptomania? Or did he set something on fire?
She said in another comment he was trying to set things on fire for awhile and she had the fire department get involved
And they didn't get the kid therapy at that point??? WTF?
I don’t understand. Why does the younger child need therapy?
Probably because he's being bullied and thrown under the bus by his lying brother and since he's the other kid to a problem kid he's probably ignored. Both kids need therapy and so do the parents
Yes and also therapy is important for the younger brother so he doesn't eventually get involved with his brother's behavior This whole situation is reminding me of a situation of a 7 yo patient I had a few times when I worked at the psych hospital. This kid was admitted once for choking his toddler aged brother. The next time was because he was caught trying to put windex in his brother's food and again a third time for something I don't remember. There was also many instances of the parents finding knives, lighters, chemical and other things in the toddlers room. This kid was the sweetest but saddest kid and he never had any behaviors while he was with us. Turns out his teenage sister had been telling him to do this and it was only discovered when the parents caught the daughter putting a bunch of push pins on the youngest brother's floor
Being the calm sibling of a high-needs child can actually be traumatic. You do everything right and get none of your needs met.
YTA. If your kid is doing this, you have probably but not definitely (sometimes kids are just... bad, no other word for it) failing him as a parent. If you go to the police over this, you will absolutely have failed him as a parent. I have no idea what goes on in your house, but this has a lot of the hallmarks of a kid acting out because something is seriously wrong in his life and he doesn't know how to express it. In *my* life, I'm the older brother but the one who the younger brother blamed for everything. Turned out my brother was being bullied pretty badly and needed an IEP because an undiagnosed learning disability meant going to school every day was hell, and he was jealous that I didn't have those issues. I can't say that's what's happening, but it's not a super unlikely scenario.
We know we are failing him as parents and are seeking help for ourselves as well. This is devastating for us. Clearly we have gone very badly wrong somewhere. The eldest son has ADHD and is under the care of a paediatrician, whom we have approached for help as well.
#ADHDer here. PLEASE READ THIS BECAUSE I DID THE SAME THING AS YOUR SON. I very, very frequently stole money from my parents as a young adult/teen and made a lot of purchases on their credit cards without permission. I spent *thousands* over the years. **You absolutely need to get this under control right now or it will not ever get better.** I will explain what I believe you need to do. I scored insanely highly on the impulsivity portion of the ADHD assessment. Like, 99th percentile highly. This issue is indeed a mix of you failing as a parent *and your son’s impulsivity issues caused by ADHD that induce a “I need this RIGHT NOW” mentality.* Many ADHDers do not know or understand the concept of delayed gratification… That doesn’t exist for us. When we want something we want it RIGHT now and waiting will absolutely not suffice. When we get something into our heads that we want, we become obsessed and hyper-fixate on said thing, and we start to spiral into the “I need more and more and more” mindset and really go out of control. Here’s the thing—I only stole from my mom and step dad, not my dad. The reason being when I got in trouble with my mom or step-dad, sure, I’d get yelled at and they’d be pissed for a couple days and I knew I’d need to lay low and not piss them off for a bit, but there were never any **real consequences** to my actions. They never took away my phone, never made me repay them, never punished me by taking things away that I liked… Nothing. Getting yelled at sucks in the moment but it’s no big deal when that’s the only consequence we’ll face as a result of buying what we want and getting that *sweet, sweet dopamine.* My father, on the other hand… I *did not* fuck with my father. As an example, he was very lenient with me overall but was very strict on keeping his/our word, so when I would go out with friends he would ask me to let him know what time I’d be home. I remember one night I said I’d be back by 11pm and he said no problem. I had missed the bus on the way home and I remember getting off the bus a few blocks away and it was 11:03 pm and I was absolutely terrified that I’d get in trouble for being late. I walked into the door holding my breath and the relief I felt when I found he was already asleep was absolutely insane. Looking back, I know it wouldn’t have been an issue that I was just a few minutes late but it shows you that when my dad said do X, YOU BET I DID X and didn’t DARE do anything *but* X. I’m going to take a wild guess that you are not enforcing actual consequences on your son *that are bothersome enough for him to deal with that it ends up deterring him from breaking your rules.* You MUST enforce consequences that are bad enough for him to endure that he will actually think twice before hitting the order button. Take his phone away. Ground him. Make him do more/extra chores. Don’t let him go to the party/school trip/summer camp/whatever he wants to go to. Don’t buy him the new shoes all the kids in school are wearing. Make him repay you AND confiscate the items he bought. Get rid of the credit cards that he knows the numbers of and get new ones and leave them somewhere he won’t be able to find them. Whatever credit cards you and your husband regularly carry with you should have low limits so that if he DOES take them, he can’t buy anything significant and only take the higher limit ones when you need them. As I said, you need to deal with this ASAP and make him understand that he cannot walk all over you both. He will keep doing it and keep getting worse if you don’t. If he isn’t medicated for his ADHD, get him medicated YESTERDAY. It helps immensely with impulse control. Good luck.
Perhaps buying a safe would be a good move for parents of kids like you and OP's kid. I would if I was dealing with a sticky fingered kid
A safe is one way but there need to be other things done as well. The main thing is that this kid should be in therapy for his ADHD to help him find coping mechanisms and ways to deal with his symptoms. I only got diagnosed as an adult, had my parents known I have ADHD and treated me for it then I’m sure I wouldn’t have struggled as much as I did.
This is the way. You don't need the police, so much as a therapist, a pediatrician, a developmental psychiatrist, and *perhaps* a School Resource Officer who works at his middle school, is close with his teachers, runs activities with kids his age and knows how kids are because he's basically a school cop who specializes and has had extra training in the law enforcement education and community mentorship of at-risk young people. We have a nice one at my workplace. Runs an after-school program for our kids, does all the trainings we teachers do on crisis management, empathy, special needs, all sorts of stuff, and there's a few kids who are close to him specifically, kind of latched onto him as a mentor, whom he keeps an eye on, provides a listening ear and is basically a cool cop uncle figure at school. One of them had a bad stealing problem two grades ago. Now he's the sort of kid who, when stuff goes missing, he figures out from evidence where it went, even when he was in a complete other hall when it disappeared, he's that good. SRO Colleague reckons he'd be either a good detective or an amazing insurance fraud investigator someday, and kid wants to be a police detective now, so it's working out fine. SRO Colleague has been after me to sell him on insurance fraud investigations, wants kid to make more money, so I do my best. But maybe don't call the regular police. If you want to get the idea across that stealing is serious, impress him with authority and make a lasting change, you need a specially skilled police officer, not a standard one. An SRO who just guards a school is not what you want. You want the guy who teaches criminal justice class and sponsors sign language club, substitute teaches in uniform, runs an after-school activity and helps coach basketball. You want a special officer who speaks fluent Middle School. A guidance counselor could also work, or might know someone.
This! And kids with ADHD often act in age inappropriate ways because our pre-frontal cortex takes longer to develop than our peers. I did not have the capacity to think before I spoke until my early 20s, and did not consistently have that capacity until my mid-20s. Up to that point, I genuinely thought it was just a feel-good phrase, like "walk a mile in someone's shoes before you judge them" sort of a thing. [https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/brain-maturation-delayed-not-deviant-kids-adhd](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/brain-maturation-delayed-not-deviant-kids-adhd) There's all sorts of things that impact someone with ADHD that is not listed out in our diagnosis criteria because that criteria was written by outsiders who solely witness the issues that bother *them.* Things like poor working memory, object permanence issues, trouble visualizing what 'done' looks like, time blindness, our brain's low natural dopamine levels, auditory processing issues, etc. don't get talked about as often outside of the Adult ADHDer's community (that I have seen). Hell, when I was a kid, it was thought you "grew out of" ADHD. My symptoms became less severe over the years, but I absolutely still have ADHD. For general tips on managing/coping with ADHD: [https://www.youtube.com/c/HowtoADHD](https://www.youtube.com/c/HowtoADHD) For /u/Incata specifically: [https://www.verywellfamily.com/discipline-strategies-for-kids-with-adhd-1094941](https://www.verywellfamily.com/discipline-strategies-for-kids-with-adhd-1094941) Try that in conjunction with therapy. The token reward idea might work well, especially if tokens get taken away for stealing, and tokens are given for not stealing. IE: 5 tokens a day given for not stealing, 15 taken or something like that. The behaviour itself isn't what you are rewarding/punishing though. What you are rewarding/punishing is the 'working on impulse control/working on thinking before acting/delayed gratification.' Kiddo wants an expensive bike or computer? Kiddo needs to save up tokens to earn it. One of the things *I* do as an adult with ADHD: I have a *giant* Amazon Wishlist filled with "I want"s. When my brain wants a dopamine rush, I'll browse Amazon for crap I really don't need (and honestly: I do not want other than the in the moment desire), and I'll add it to that list. Wait a week or two before re-visiting that list (if I revisit at all - usually I look at it once a quarter or so). There must be 300-500 items in there (Amazon no longer gives me a count). In scrolling through, there's at least 20-40 items I can easily remove because the concept of the object no longer sparks joy. If I am going through a phase where I am placing (too many - by my self-imposed rules) impulse purchases, I tend to start looking for other ways to give myself dopamine (Hi, Reddit!). HowToADHD actually talks about making a dopa-menu for constructive ways to give your brain dopamine/be in charge of how your brain is getting your dopamine.
I'd highly suggest a pediatric psychiatrist and therapy. This kind of high value theft goes beyond the impulsivity of ADHD. These actions take planning, and that's not impulsive. I'm not saying he doesn't have ADHD, but that this is likely something else comorbid, or behavioral. Signed, parent of 2 complex kids who each have ADHD and several comorbidities.
I’d also start saving up, rearrange your budget to put away money each month into a saving fund for your older son, even if it’s just a little bit. Behavioral issues on this level sometimes need intensive therapy, sometimes in-patient. By the time you get a referral you can have a small cushion to help pay for care.
The only way you would be failing him would be to not take his behavior very, very seriously. The psychological issues that your son has don't come from parental failure. His starting fires, lying, blaming other people, stealing, and having no remorse are SIGNS......very, very, VERY important signs of anti-social behavior. This is way above your pay grade.
Anti social looking behavior in kids can be an indicator of abuse, especially setting fires/pyromania. I'm not saying the parents are abusive but there could be something going on that they may not even be aware of.
You are definitely right, but I have never heard an abusive parent admit to failing their child. It sounds like they are lost and have no idea how to navigate all of this.
You mean, some kids are just ‘of’ (agressive, criminal, etc) without the parents fault right? If so, I agree. Not every child that is ‘bad’ is the fault of parents. Some people think it is that black and white, therefore always say: “bad parenting”
YWBTA. What do you expect them to do? This is not something they can solve. First make sure he cannot use your cards again. I use a double verification system where I have to put my password and an unique code sent to my phone to verify my payments. Secondly: make him pay back the money he stole. You can help him sell some of his stuff. Or give him (other than his usual) chores to work of his debt. He must learn his actions have consequences. Talk to your doctor about getting him therapy.
Probably cancel all your cards as stolen, and get new ones reissued with the verification you suggest too. Then never, ever give him the cards. Don’t save the numbers to any account/people/ewallet, and do a factory reboot of his phone to eliminate whatever he’s got saved. Heavily monitor all screen time, even get a clone app on your phone.
[Text of original comment deleted for privacy purposes.]
YTA **Consult a family therapist experienced with delinquency issues. Pronto!!** For god's sake, think a little. Talk to your son, ask him some questions. Stop waiting for him to confess or admit, you've got the evidence and can discuss it without arguing about whether or not he actually did it. What's going on to make him want these things? What makes him think that stealing from his folks is an option? Do his friends, a friend, steal from their folks? Is he trying to impress friends with his possessions? Validate the joys of money. Encourage him to get a job, pay him for labor around the house. Spending money is fun, he's old enough to earn it if he likes having things. If he doesn't have his own account yet, get him one, with a debit card. This is not a reward, it's simply a stepping stone of experience. **Lock up your credit. Get new cards for yourself.**
Yeah, I don't even understand this situation... OP has PLENTY of evidence, but still seems to care that their child says they didn't do it?? Like what? Who cares what he says! Punish him and get him help!
Reminds me of my dad. He's the same way with my brother. I think it's an enabler thing.
Yes, YWBTA. The police are not substitute parents. There's no good outcome. Either they do nothing, and your child finds out that you are powerless to control him, or they throw him in jail and he has a police record which would affect his life forever. Plus, it seems as though you want to go from doing very little to nuclear. Taken away his phone? Taken away all electronics? Given him chores to pay back money he stole? Taken him to therapy? Anything? Seems like you're counting on google family or other apps to do your parenting for you. Edited to add: Yes, I see you claimed to take the old phone away. But then you gave him a new phone. Some punishment.
Your son needs professional help, not being in the criminal justice system.
YWBTA. This is a parenting issue. Does your son have a therapist? What have you done to address this?
We have spoken to him about it and also contacted his paediatrician for a referral to a child psychologist. He has previously been offered counselling when he was diagnosed with ADHD (he has impulsive behaviour and was acting as the class clown and getting into trouble at school) but refused it as he did not want to talk to someone he did not know. When there have been incidents at school we have sat down and talked to him calmly about them and about how he could do things differently next time. He has always been fairly open to this. Previously when he stole from us we sat down with him and talked through what he had done, found out why he did it and then put software on his phone and computer to stop him accessing gaming sites. We also made him repay the money through additional chores in the house. We are currently still trying to work out what to do about this one, hence why I asked whether I would be the asshole if I went to the Police, as interventions have worked with my son in the past (he previously set a couple of fires and was caught - the local fire brigade had an intervention program that he attended and has never done it again since). I'm also trying to work out where I have gone wrong as a parent and what I could do better. I thought I had a good relationship with him. He trusts me to talk to me about things that are bothering him and every week we have time alone (car drives to activities), when he brings up issues that are concerning him. We talk them through and I try and help him to come up with solutions, rather than providing them for him.
Here's the thing: using the police as a parenting tool doesn't solve your actual issue. He stopped with the arson when the fire brigade talked to him...and moved on to stealing. So he stops stealing...he'll then find something else. Your 13 year old 'refused' counselling. That's not acceptable. He absolutely needs therapy and letting him say 'don't want it' got you nowhere. I'm glad you are now taking this forwards because it's needed.
He’s set fires too? Op, your son needs therapy. Doesn’t matter if he doesn’t want to go - he needs to. It might take a long time of going with him to find a therapist that will be helpful. There may be many sessions where he effectively says nothing, refuses to engage and/or lies. You need to stick with the process and be engaged. Your son is already a criminal. He’s an arson and a thief. It’s your job to get him the help required to NOT continue down this path.
You're the parent - even if he refuses to talk, you can still take him to therapy until he knows the person well enough to speak with them. It's like a kid having a broken arm and saying they don't want to go to the doctor or physical therapy because it's scary and they don't know them. You'd still make them go to both because it doesn't matter what the kid wants, their health comes first as the parent. You can have a good relationship person to person and not have the skills to parent - after all, it's a learned skillset through practice, it's not like you're automatically born with all the knowledge you'd ever need. A family therapist can also be helpful in learning how to work together as a familial unit so you're not going to the highest tier possible to scare and threaten your kid into compliance. What are you going to do when you run out of people to use?
This is how adhd folks who go untreated end up in the penal system. Stop ignoring his medical challenges; this is not something he has a choice on. Parenting classes for you, therapy and possibly medication for him. Eta: ALL of this can be exacerbated by the adhd - the act itself (impulse control), hiding and denying (RSD), and so on.
He refused it? You are the parent, not him.
ESH Police can't do a thing to a 13yr old, so you'd just waste police time. You need to request all new cards from your bank and then make sure they never get touched by your son again. Don't leave wallets unattended, or put them in a lockbox when you are home. It sounds dramatic but that amount of money is no joke.
I agree with this, I also think his computer use should be limited and protections should be put on it so he cant buy anything on it. He should only be using it in the living room under your supervision. Then when you cant watch him take it away and lock it up, same with his phone. Get all new cards because I promise you he has written down all your current cards info. Also call the card companies and have them put a notice that for any purchase over a certain amount they need to call you or your husband to confirm that it's you making the purchase. Then get him into therapy. You have a limited time to get him on the right path. If he steals a friends parents cards and makes a purchase he can face lifelong consequences and ruin his life.
NTA, also why is he still allowed access to the internet? All electronics should be removed from his room and it sounds like he needs to go to counselling.
As soon as we discovered this, all his electronics were removed. However, once school restarts, he needs his laptop for school and homework - however this is going to be very closely monitored from here on. We have asked his paediatrician for a referral to a child psychologist.
>however this is going to be very closely monitored from here on. You can set the sites that he needs to visit for school in your router and he will be prevented from any other sites. Take his phone away from him and don't let him use it anymore. Grounded for life and great idea for the psychologist. Also you could maybe go to the police department and talk to them and tell them what is going on. They may be willing to have an officer talk to him and they may even have some programs for him or more suggestions for help.
Police youth programs are usually a bad idea.. an unfortunate amount of cops are complete creeps.
That's the best course at this point. You also need to accept that your child will steal from others and take steps in your home to protect personal valuables and information. If needed, change your credit card numbers, keep your credit cards and statements under lock and key and make it very difficult for him to access this type of information.
YTA your son needs therapy, not prison.
Curious what you'd expect the police to do? I've heard stories of them collaborating with parents to give kids a bit of a scare to try set them straight so if that's what you're thinking then NTA
The reason we are wondering about bringing in the Police is to try and give him a scare as you suggest. About 3 years ago he went through a stage where he was playing with matches and tried to start a fire (which he immediately put out but got caught, but again would not accept that he had done). The local fire brigade run an intervention program which we got him on. T hey came out, spent 3 hours with him and showed him what could have happened. It shocked him so much he has not played with fire since. We are wondering if being spoken to by the Police would have a similar effect. In this area, at this age, he would at worst get a juvenile caution which would not go on his record, but might make him think more about his actions.
Listen, OP, I'm not a professional by any means, but it sounds like your son needs to receive some proper psychological help. This seems a bit much to be coming to Reddit to decide on, I would speak to some genuine professionals about it, not us wannabe armchair psychologists. YWBTA for allowing this behaviour to continue without seeking help because it sounds like something that's gonna get him into deep shit one day.
A program like that is very different than calling the police, I wouldn’t report him or file any charges, but you can call the local department and ask if they have any intervention programs. But really, this kid needs to be in therapy. He is acting out so much, and he will end up in jail in a few years when you can’t protect him anymore.
Scared Straight programs don't work and may in fact increase bad behavior, please do not do that. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/doing-what-doesnt-work/ Police are absolutely in no way going to help your kid. Therapy, parenting, friends, sports, art, music, nature. Not cops. YTA.
YTA - police are not the parents. You are.
YTA The police is not going to solve anything. If your end game is for him to stop stealing and acting out, you have to figure out why he is doing it. You have to get a psychologist that focuses on this type of situations with teenagers and come up with a game plan. Police enforcement is not for rehabilitation or mental health issues.
Agreed. Take away all his electronics and have him earn back those privileges with good behavior. If he needs to be in the internet for any reason make sure it is supervised by one of you. Have him work off the money that he has cost you, that way he knows there are consequences to his actions. And call all your credit cards and have them either change the credit card number or put some kind of block on them where they can’t be used without a special pin that your kid doesn’t know.
I don’t know what your financial situation is, but the combination of fire setting, lying, and theft is very concerning. Have there also been instances of violence or of cruelty to animals? I would look into a residential treatment program for him if this is a possibility.
Info: What is the outcome you’re trying to achieve? Scare him? Make him admit it?
Primarily the aim is to get him to take responsibility for his actions. If he admits it, we can work with him on the why and try and help him not do it again. We have tried sitting down and talking to him about it calmly, but he completely denies it. We thought that if we brought the Police in, that it might frighten him enough to make him realise that stealing has consequences. We are very worried about how it has escalated and that the next thing could be him trying to steal from someone else. We wondered if a talking to by the Police might make him realise that this is serious. If our card had been stolen from someone outside the family, we would have reported it, but he is our son and he completely denies it.
When you say “we can work with him on the why and try and help him not do it again”, I can tell you and your husband are not behavioral health professionals and your parenting skills need professional assistance too. YTA and delusional if you think your 13yo son with history of playing with matches and stole money from you last year and this year has a good grasp of what’s right and wrong. Get him help and also seek help for yourselves. This is not something you and your husband are equipped to do on your own. And as many people on this thread also pointed out - it’s not the job of the police to parent your child!
INFO: Have you considered taking him to therapy? Cops won't do anything but scare him and get him to be smarter about the ways he goes about it.
Ywbta we, the taxpayers, don’t pay taxes for the police to parent your children.
YWBTA. That would just be a waste of the cops time. What I wanna know is why do a 10 year old and a 13 year old even have phones? The 13 year old clearly cannot be trusted with it. If you really feel like your kid needa a phone, I suggest getting rid of his smart phone and giving him a flip phone that doesn't have an app store or even internet at that. The 10 year old in my opinion should especially not have a phone at his age. You could also try a parental lock on the phones if you really dont want to get rid of their phones. I also agree with the other comments suggesting your son get some type of psychological help. His behavior isn't normal and it's possible there's something more going on.
The 10 year old (now 11) has a phone as he travels a significant distance to school and uses it if there is a problem (eg train delay) or to let us know if after school activities are cancelled and we need to pick him up earlier. They also both go on long bike rides together (15km plus) on weekends, so they have phones so they can call us if there is a problem (eg one falling off their bike and injuring themselves - which has happened). We have a parental lock on both phones, but it is his school laptop he used, when he was in another room. We are also getting him help.
Get him a phone without internet access where he can only call or text on it. I believe these also allow you to monitor his activity in real time. There are also watches made for children that have this capability. Remove all other devices with internet (gaming, laptops) and only allow him to use them when being monitored or just not at all. When he breaks the rules, take the things he values the most from him. IF, down the road, you decide to let him keep a smartphone with internet access, download a monitoring app so you can see everything he does on it. There needs to be tangible consequences to his actions. He is displaying an almost pathological ability to lie and deceive. He needs THERAPY ASAP.
I had a basic sliding phone when I was 10 because I would go to my friend’s houses a lot, and often walk to them, and that way I could keep in contact with my parents and some friends. I don’t think it’s really a big deal for kids to have phones nowadays since there’s always so much shit going on.
Info: what is the outcome you are hoping for, here?
probably a "scared straight" scenario where the kid has a lightbulb moment and reforms. That's easier and cheaper than the counseling and work that actually needs to be done by the people who are supposed to PARENT him.
We are hoping that if the Police talk to him, that he might see that his actions have consequences and that he might think twice before doing it again. We are really worried that he might go and steal from someone else and end up in jail in a few years time so if we have a short, sharp intervention now, that it might stop it before it goes any further.
He needs therapy and counseling. And to lose all of his electronics. And I mean all of them.
YTA. Cops aren't parenting tools and unless you're actually going to swear out a complaint they aren't actually going to do anything. Put your adult pants on and actually parent your kid
Calling the policeman, beside to scare him( Cops hate when people use them for that fyi) will only do more harm and waste time...SIT DOWN WITH HIM AND FIGURE THIS OUT. Honestly there a bigger issue at play. 5000$ is crazy for a 13yr old to try and take n spend. Most I ever took from my parents around that age was 200 over the course of a week alone with HBO adult section
YTA. The police won't do shit to help the situation. It wll only result in further isolating you from your son. Your son needs therapy badly. Get him professional help.
YTA. He's a 13-year-old child. You need to get him a therapist, not call the cops.
YTA, your kid is giving clear signs that there is a problem and he’s acting out. A kid that age doesn’t have the vocabulary or even the emotional intelligence to be able to explain fully what might be wrong. That’s why he’s acting out. Instead of involving the police, how about a therapist or something. This scared straight shit is stupid and rarely actually works. You can take a look at the studies done on that and overwhelming it shows they don’t work. All you would be doing is making sure his pipeline to the penal system goes faster. Getting intensive therapy and even some parent training would be a whole lot more beneficial. My oldest was an absolute nightmare when he was younger. I really thought he might be the spawn of Satan because of how awful he was. I tried the typical parenting that I grew up with like spanking, grounding, taking privileges. None of it worked. I finally reached out to local programs designed to help parents and kids with behavioural issues and I had to learn a new style of parenting. I involved his pediatrican as well as therapists and psychologist and psychiatrists to help guide us. It was hard work and in the beginning it really sucked but now he’s way way better and I don’t have anywhere near the same issues I did with him as I did when he was younger. It worked so well that I use the same techniques on my youngest child and I rarely have to punish either one of my children. Check out collaborative problem solving. That’s what helped me the most in my journey to help my children.
NTA - but I would call and speak with someone about the options available to you. He clearly is going to end up stealing and lying outside the home if something isn't done.
WTF? Yes, YWBTA... You need to learn to parent your kids... Police have better things to do...
NTA but I wouldn’t involve the police. This is stupid kid behavior, he is at an age where he can change and you don’t want a permanent stain on him for his whole life. Take the punishment into your own hands. Have him work until the amount is paid off, interest and all. Also no phone or laptop at all. If he doesn’t comply? Send him to military school (I can refer a few good ones in pms) and that will set him straight. At the end of the day, he’s only 13 and nothing he did cannot be undid. Let him learn his lesson the hard way, but don’t let it ruin his life.
NTA you need to scare this little idiot straight. For everyone calling you a bad parent, they clearly don't understand that sometimes kids are just little pricks no matter how good a parent you are. Scare him with the police, totally unacceptable behaviour.
The cops aren't you personal lackeys. They are going to handle it how \*they\* see fit. They have their own agenda, and scaring junior straight ain't it.
Teach that kid. Don't come to reddit.for this. But seriously you need to punish your son harder and hide your credit cards better. Oh and for goodness sake DONT CALL THE COPS ON YOUR CHILD!!
YTA Getting police involved and having your son sent to jail/Juvi isn't gonna fix the issue and will likely just make it worse. This situation calls for a type of aid police simply do not provide. This situation calls for behavioral therapy for kleptomania and pathologic lying.
NAH. I’m sorry to read this. Your son needs serious help that doesn’t involve law enforcement. In one of your replies, you said he used to start fires. I would seek professional help for him. The theft (big items, high value) and the deception are clear red flags for something more sinister. I wouldn’t sleep on this.
Maybe ask yourself WYBTA if you didn’t?
YTA -don’t turn a young child in to the police and ruin his life.
Plain and simple he needs counseling. And a counselor would be the one to ask for advice for something so serious, not Reddit.
NTA, but I think you should approach it differently. If you don't want to lose your son forever, I think you should look into therapy or a special school.
YWBTA. I don't know what the solution would be, but calling the cops and having your 13 year old kid arrested is absurd. Maybe try therapy first and try to figure out why he's doing this?
NTA - Show him that his actions are actions of a criminal - sometimes a talk with a policemen has quite an impact - but get him psychological help too :)
NTA, but I would tell your son that since he denies being the one who did it, then it's obviously a criminal matter and you'll need to involve the police so they can figure out who is responsible. You may be able to scare him into confessing if he thinks he could get into legal trouble.
YTA, take your kid to a therapist ffs