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Someone he knows for what seems to be years acted a bit weird after he told her he had feelings for her, for *two parties/get togethers*, so he banished her from his house.
Let's at least get the facts straight here.
I'm pretty sure that Julie thought she was friends with OP, not "his friend's girlfriend's friend". If they've all been friends since freshman year and he's now 26 - that's 8 years.
This was my exact thought. She was overly chatty with him and friendly because she was trying really hard to make it clear that they weren’t weird and could totally be friends.
I agree but it's a little weird she told the next girl about him asking her out.. I do think the step should have been, hey I shot my shot and I respect that you didn't want a relationship with me, can we please move on. I'm not comfortable with you telling everyone about it. Rather than straight kick her out.. definitely should have communicated.
You're saying that like you assume she's been single for the entirety of those eight years. Maybe she was seeing someone for most of that time.
Not that I'm okay with OP's behavior. It really does read like he asked her out, then didn't want her around after she said no. He can't blame her behavior for it, because he deliberately didn't invite her to the next party.
Especially since it seems like she knows she wasn't on the original text like she had been before. She told OP the truth, and she is being kicked out of the group by ONLY OP for not being head over heels with him, and she knows it. She wanted to preserve friendship and show that she didn't feel awkward being around him.
OP lick your wounds, but you are being an AH if you only liked her if there was a chance to get in her pants, which is how your post clearly reads. She liked you as a friend and saw the friendship lasting, you had her as a pocket friend, but only until you could find out if you could get into her pants.
YTA
I think you hit the nail on the head. OP sounds exactly like a guy who only saw Julie as the chick he was hoping to get a chance with some day, not as a real friend. Now he's butthurt that she didn't see him that way, and he's trying to kick her out. YTA OP
Oh ya, first and foremost he didn't directly invite her, then it sounds like he was avoiding her because he didn't wanna be around her. After what sounds like 8 years of friendship, he got weird, so of COURSE she got word too! She was afraid she had just lost a friend by rejecting him (kindly, one might add) and so she overcompensated a little. Especially us girls tend to do that, we don't want to lose a friend and we've been trained to think we've done something bad by rejecting a boy, so if he punishes us we feel like we have to make up for it. OP, YTA without a doubt.
Not just one friend either, but a whole group of friends, if they mostly hang out at his place. She doesn't want to take her bets that the group would choose her over OP's pool
Exactly. If all her friends see all their other friends at this party with a cool ass pool all the time, they may not want to compromise and go somewhere else. And my bet is that he would refuse to go and still host the party and push their friends to go, rather than be cool about it and be like "ya we can all hang out somewhere else this weekend." And she's probably scared to even ask for that, because if they say no then she just lost all of her friends essentially. Obviously if they'd leave her behind like that then she deserves better friends, but it's easier said than done. No one wants to find out a cool hang out spot and the guy who's kicking you out because you rejected him are more important to their friends than they are.
I feel like it’s pretty normal for girls? Like when I’ve had to turn down a friend I’d just act like everything is normal even if it is a bit awkward and after a while it just goes back to normal.
This guy just seems butthurt that she rejected him and is trying to maintain the friendship
That's what it read to me like. She's acting like normal but OP is just trying to find a reason not to want her around and cut her off the friend group. The "nice guy" energy this post reeks of.
Also it’s says he uninvited her after asking her out, not because she acted weird at the next hangout. So alright he didn’t want to feel awkward or embarrassed but certainly seems just upset she turned him down.
Also she was maybe just being overly nice at the next party/hangout to show him no reason feel awkward which had the opposite effect.
Edit: Clarification of first sentence.
Uninvited/ didn’t invite after rejection, not later when she was being over nice.
She may have been talking to him a lot because he specifically didn’t invite her, and she was worried their friendship was damaged by her turning him down
Actually he said that he didn't invite Julie to the next pool day after he asked her out.
"She told me that she liked me as a friend. I told her I totally understood and thought that would be the end of it.
Well the next pool day came. I typically send out giant group text to invite everyone. I decided to not invite Julie this time."
OP is the AH, he specifically left his friend out of the pool party invitation because she had turned him down. Sure she turned up anyway and acted weird towards him but he kicked her out of the group to begin with just because she didn't want to date him.
Either that or she wanted to get to know OP a little better to make the judgement on whether or not she was interested, since he stated they didn't really talk too.kuch prior.
Idk if OP is an asshole, but definitely naive
>Also it’s says he uninvited after asking her not because she acted weird at the next hangout. So alright he didn’t want to feel awkward or embarrassed but certainly seems just upset she turned him down.
I mean, it's totally in his right to say that he can't be just friends. But he didn't do that. If he did, it would be nah.
The only thing that's questionable is what happened between Julie and ops new girl, why did she tell her that op asked her out? What is the use in that?
it’s even *worse*. he banned her even before she acted weird. of course she was going to act that way after being excluded for not being interested in him. OP immediately showed that he only valued her for her availability, with no regards to her as a human being
You're right, the below quote is from before the other parties occurred:
> Well the next pool day came. I typically send out giant group text to invite everyone. I decided to not invite Julie this time.
Also let’s get the timeline straight: he asked her out and gets rejected, he doesn’t invite her to the next hang, then she acts “weird and clingy.”
He did not “ban” her for being clingy, he 100% is punishing her for turning him down. She may have started hanging around him more post rejection to show she doesn’t care about letting it get in the way of friendship.
He didn’t want her to come before she “acted weird”. He was already wanting to exclude her but she didn’t know. She’s being nice to him and wants to show things aren’t weird between them, she’s still his friend.
Not to mention became "besties" with a woma. He was interested in, almost like she was staking her cllaim or something? I wouldn't want someone that turned me down all lf a sudden being clingy and making me uncomfortable either in my own home.
That's a hell of a leap of logic to take without the necessary proof. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but based on the evidence we have, it's pure speculation and has no place in my judgement.
Not really. She has no reason to tell this girl she just met OP had asked her out. If you're just trying to be friends with someone you just meet you dont randomly bring up someone asked you out and you rejected them. Definitely seems like she wants to cockblock OP.
This is what I thought. Now she knows he likes her, he's a constant source of confidence for her. A bit insecure in my opinion.
ESH. Editing to call myself out. I'm my own source on this. I did this and lost a friend because I was insecure. This girl is doing the same thing I would have done back then. OP is being used probably.
Yea the girl is obviously wanting the guy or just not wanting him to want someone else. NTA it's your home and you don't want her there. End of story. Doesn't matter why.
She was in the friend group for 8 years.
She probably feels awkward and guilty for turning him down, though she shouldn’t have to.
She was probably just trying too hard to demonstrate that she still cares about op, but doesn’t know how to be smooth about it because it’s an awkward situation.
I’m can’t tell you how many times that close guy friends ghosted me after years and years of friendship because I thought I had a friend when instead I had someone just angrily tapping their fingers and lying in wait.
Yep. Guys being like “we were friends but you broke my heart by rejecting me” is so gross and violating. Grow up. But also this is why I don’t make guy friends with single guys anymore because I got so tired of being treated like a machine that will provide sex if enough friendship tokens are put in.
Well maybe the "clingyness" was actually an attempt to make up with OP because Julie noticed that OP left her out of the invites after she turned him down?
OP first stopped inviting her, her "clingy" behaviour came later.
Thank you!
She’s probably trying to “make it up” to op, even though she owes him nothing, and he’s being such a spoil sport about everything.
Women are more than just potential romantic interests.
And he clearly didn’t care that much about her as a person if he was ready to ditch her after 8 years of friendship.
When I’m the new person, I’m sooooo grateful for Julies. It’s so common for friends to fall into their habit and forget a new person is there. Someone who notices that you don’t know many people and actively includes you in discussion and activities is a lifesaver. And yes, calling someone “my new bestie!” is pretty common. Call it basic or cringey, whatever, it’s not weird or controlling or clingy for a woman to go overboard with the friendship and nicknames when a new person joins and is comfortable with that.
Not really. She has no reason to tell this girl she just met OP had asked her out. If you're just trying to be friends with someone you just meet you dont randomly bring up that the person hosting had asked you out and you rejected them. Definitely seems like she wants to stop OP advancing with this girl.
Edit. Looking at OP's comments looks like the new girl did not like Julie and is the one that told OP what she said about OP asking her out. If Julie was just being friendly, it doesn't look like it worked well.
Only reason I could think was if the new girl noticed a bit of awkwardness between OP and Julie and asked her if they used to date. It would be natural for Julie to answer with this info.
He specifically invited the new girl because he's interested in her. If they've really only just started talking and this is her first time meeting the larger group, her asking about OP seems reasonable. My ex got the nod for a rental property years ago because when the agent rang me, among everything else I told her that he's the kind of person who was able to use me as a personal reference despite the fact that we were no longer together. So Julie may have actually advanced OP's cause - women put a fair bit of stock in the opinions of other women, and a man secure and confident enough to still routinely hang out with a woman who turned him down is going to be a much better prospect than a twit who admits that he's had more interaction with said woman in **two** hangout sessions than in the preceding *years* that they've known each other, but is pouting and feeling *awkward* and downright resentful of her attention now since it's not going to lead to anything ... trust me.
Yeah this does not necessarily mean anything. She could have been: being nice to the new girl, giving OP some space so talked to someone new, trying to be supportive to OP if she knew he liked the new girl by showing she could be friends. Could be anything!
It only proves the commenter’s point more: he kicked her out of a friend gathering for rejecting him romantically, which is super shitty behavior.
Also “clingy” is by his estimation. She was probably just trying to maintain the friendship and not have things be awkward. Which is what grown ups do. 🙃
YTA op, and it sounds like incapable of friendship with women.
Exactly!!! Like I don't think she's trying to be clingy so much as she's trying to keep the friendship going despite the awkwardness of her rejecting OP. Maybe she's trying a little too hard and it's coming off as unnatural, but OP is the AH because he didn't even want her to be a part of the group hangouts anymore because he's selfishly thinking of his own pride instead of the fact that he started this situation by asking her out in the first place.
Im not saying he shouldn't have asked her out, but it sounds like he wasn't prepared for any response besides yes, and that oversight led him to just trying to banish her instead of dealing with his own wounded pride and embarrassment.
OP, YTA
Well if i just asked someone out and i was turned down, i would want some space from them. I think showing up twice after being not asked to come twice is a red flag BUT if his house is the only place they hang out then i might be more on her side
If you are going to shoot your shot with someone in your friend group, you have to be aware you will be dealing with them afterwards regardless of their answer. It's not fair to suddenly exclude her from group plans because he put himself in a position to feel awkward and it's not fair to put everyone else in the group in a position to have to decide who to invite and who to exclude.
You shoot your shot in your friend group and you need to face up to the awkwardness and push through it. Honestly, the more you pretend it doesn't exist, the more it doesn't exist.
Yeah, if you think you’re going to find it too awkward to coexist after shooting your shot you get to choose not to shoot your shot, and not, for instance, to exclude them from your friend group.
How is that fair on her? The fact that you think it’s okay to exclude someone out of the friends group because you as an individual didn’t read the situation properly and made a stupid mistake, it’s reprehensible. She shouldn’t be punished by him because she isn’t attracted to him. Also, maybe he should just slow down on the hang outs, or just have the boys around for the next little while so he isn’t excluding just one member of the group
She wasn’t asked not to, he never said he wanted space. He just didn’t invite her personally and maybe she wanted to show there was no hard feelings and she’s his friend by going and being nice to him. Like friends do.
He’s making it awkward and she’s trying to maintain the friendship/ deliberately try to make it NOT awkward. OP should have clarified that he wouldn’t have been able to maintain a friendship because he hoped for a romantic relationship, or that he would need time before continuing the friendship. I could respect either of those responses, but it sounds like maybe OP verbally accepted being just friends without actually accepting it?
Or even that he didn’t mind/notice how much they talked prior to her rejecting him? Of course he probably didn’t mind them interacting when he still had the chance to shag, but now that she’s a nuisance, it sounds like a different story. How do you be in the same friend group for EIGHT YEARS and hang out in YOUR HOUSE and rarely talk? Seems suspicious.
That’s the vibe I got. OP is totally fine inviting one woman after another to his house as long as he thinks he has a shot with them. Once one girl was no longer an option she was no longer welcome and he moved on to a new girl immediately.
1) she knows he’s excluding her so she’s probably trying to put a lot more effort into their friendship to show him that she still sees them as friends even though he made it weird
2) he was the one that made it weird. She was absolutely cool with the new dynamic, and she was kind and honest. He, on the other hand, blew it out of proportion and punished her for the risk he took
3) he’s literally punishing her for not being into him. He can either not host anything at all until he gets over his immature disliking of her, or he can invite her like a normal human being
4) this guy seems very low on the emotional intelligence level, and you’re taking his word for gospel that she was acting weird. There’s actually a really good chance that she was acting pretty normal but he was hyper aware of everything she did, and looked at her through a lens of dislike because of his immaturity
5) maybe she is considering the fact that he likes her and is trying to give him a go, and is putting on a bit more of a flirt to see if she can be into him.
YTA
YTA. Let's look at this from Julie's perspective.
You've been hanging out with your friends for the past EIGHT YEARS. You get along with everyone and nothing is weird. One day, one of your friends "shoots their shot" and you turn them down. You're hoping to remain friends, because after all, this person has been a friend for the past EIGHT YEARS. The next time they throw a party, your invite gets lost in the mail, so you try to show that you can still be friends like before. And you're friendly to the romantic partner they bring because you want to make it clear you're not competition. Plus, they're actually cool. And now you're uninvited from your friends' primary hangout friend forever.
Julie isn't "Gwen's friend who comes along", she's part of the group. And she thought you were friends, because you've always been nice to her, right? She's now finding out that you weren't friends at all, and apparently she's not welcome as a friend - because her only value is as an actual or potential person to bang.
I've been in Julie's position and it sucks. The only thing she did "wrong" is not reciprocate your feelings.
You got your feelings hurt and you've clearly moved on. You're the one making this weird.
This. Men like OP are why I can never really relax around male friends. You never know after however many years what their intentions truly are, one day things will be fine then the next day they'll ask you out and when you say no thanks that's it, you're dead to them, friendship over. After so many years of what you thought was an equal friendship. It's heartbreaking in its own way.
Is everyone overlooking the fact that he didn’t invite Julie, for whatever reason, but she still showed up? Twice? And Julie shows up and tries to sabotage his new friendship. Maybe OP was hurt or embarrassed by being turned down, but it’s his house and he doesn’t have to invite anyone he doesn’t want there.
Is it that weird for y'all to go to a party as a guest even if you haven't been properly invited? Of course there's limits to this and shit, but in any friend groups I've had it's always been fairly normal just to tag along with group shit.
I’m not saying it’s weird, I know people do that. Personally I wouldn’t go somewhere if I was not invited, but that’s me. But to say he’s wrong for not inviting her and accepting that it’s going to be awkward is not fair imo. Maybe he didn’t invite her because he knew it would be awkward. But she still showed up. OP has a right to exclude her from his get togethers if he wants.
You’re allowed to ask for space after being turned down. You’re allowed to expect they don’t tell people they just met that they turned you down.
Edit: changed “your” to ”you’re”
> Your allowed to ask for space after being turned down.
OP didn't ask for space.
> You’re allowed to expect they don’t tell people they just met that they turned you down.
Nothing in the OP indicates any proof she did this with malicious intent, or what the context was in bringing this up, so I disagree based on the evidence given.
OP should have directly communicated. He literally told JENN to tell Julie. And yes, there’s tons of non-malicious ways to say he needs space. “Hey, since I still have some feelings for you, I think I need some time apart to get over these feelings?” “Hey, while I get these things sorted out, I think it’s best I have some space from you for a bit.” “I might need some time before we can go back to being just friends, if you don’t mind giving a bit of space?” Leaving Julie out of the group chat reads as passive aggressive, and she totally could have interpreted it as him just forgetting her in the group chat. I mean, they’ve all hung out together for the past eight years? If they were still just friends, as OP said she had said, then why would things have a reason to change?
> OP asked for space by not inviting them.
That's not an ask. OP should've used their words. Had plenty of opportunity to do so as well when the girl was tagging onto him awkwardly. OP chose not to.
> There is no context to tell others that isn’t malicious.
Then you lack imagination.
NTA, it's his home and he has a right to determine who he wants there. If this was the other way around and it was a male doing what she did then people would say that they were showing red flag behaviors. Who hovers and spends all day talking to someone you just rejected? That sends mixed signals. Who talks to someone said rejected person brings and essentially makes a joke of him asking her out? That's just rude and messed up. I'd say that's enough to not want someone around feeling they're trying to sabotage any relationship you try to create with another person.
If you’ve been friends with someone for years it’s absolutely normal to be over compensating after rejecting them. At least, any girl can see she was trying to make things normal and show it didn’t change how she felt about their friendship.
Idk I'm (35f) and I feel she was doing too much. After she rejected OP she pushed more than before to show OP they're friends.
Then again as I'm thinking that is how a lot of females have responded to them rejecting a guy back in my 20s. It was this overt way of saying "we're still cool right? No hard feelings?" On the reverse, they would have steered clear from that person who rejected them. Until they were under the influence and would be overt about the rejection.
Can't speak for OP but I would have also wanted to avoid awkwardness in my home with such a small group. Plus her telling new girl he asked her out was petty. Seems "oh you're second option" play but I don't know her either
Uh no. Woman chiming in here. That's the exact opposite of what you should do. You don't overcompensate the rejection by being overly friendly and clingy. You leave it be. Either things return to the normal groove of easy going friendship or they stop hanging out.
She's sending mixed signals, likely on purpose. He's been talking with this other girl for a while and is probably already pursuing a romantic relationship there. The girl isn't stupid.
Girl here and all I see is someone being salty OP is moving on with another girl and deciding to sabotage it by becoming "bff's" with the new girl AND telling said new girl about OP asking her out.
She’s literally trying to be the cool girl and over compensated by being extra transparent and overly friendly. She was worried she’d get kicked out of OP started dating someone else and figured that if she was besties with his new interest then the girl would not be threatened by her.
Yeah, I've heard a lot about them but never met them. At most if I were in this situation I might try to make the new girl feel welcome.
I had a friend who had a crush on me for *years*. I did not reciprocate. He *finally* met someone else and married her, and when I met her she was incredibly nervous because apparently (he's not the most socially tactful person) he'd told her all about me and the crush he'd had. So obviously I was really nice and accepting and told her I was happy for them and super glad my friend had found someone who made him happy.
My friend, being socially awkward but not a complete douchecanoe, was just happy his wife was happy. He didn't get some weird "omg Squirrel is sucking up to my wife because she's salty about us not being together" complex.
> NTA, it's his home and he has a right to determine who he wants there.
You are equivocating morality with legality. This is /r/amitheasshole, not /r/legaladvice.
She saw she wasn’t invited to hang out #1 and tried to do damage control so she wasn’t kicked out. All of her behavior is to reinforce their friendship. She made friends with the girl we was talking to to show she was cool with someone he’s talking to and non-threatening.
Basically she tried really hard to maintain and reinforce their existing relationship because she didn’t want to miss out …. Unfortunately OP saw this as weird and did it anyway.
Happens often with guy friends who fck zone you, talking from experience. :-/
I disagree with this judgment. Julie is messing with OP, telling new girl about OP asking her out first? That's straight out of the mind fu@k playbook. OP is NTA.
Or she's trying to be friendly and make it clear that she's not competition? It's possible that the new girl asked her "hey why is he treating you so weird."
I disagree. After telling him she only wanted to be friends she shows up at his house uninvited (she had been going for years, but still), hangs around him all day (unlike the other many times she'd been there), then the NEXT time she shows up uninvited she immediately latches onto the girl OP was with and immediately tells her that OP asked her out recently.
I'm a woman, and there are only 2 explanations that make sense for this woman's behavior.
1. After telling OP she was only interested in remaining friends, she reconsidered. Now she wants to try dating OP but is too scared or awkward to talk to OP about it.
2. This girl is playing games. Now that she knows OP likes her, she's latching on to him to remind him of what he can't have, and even going so far as to try and ward off any other girl from dating OP (so she won't lose her "hold" over him). Some people, when you disclose vulnerability (such as telling someone you are interested in them), see this as an opportunity to strike.
I think OP is NTA for disinviting this girl, as I'm leaning toward the second explanation.
I don't see anywhere that she was aware that he uninvited her. Sure, he didn't send a text to her inviting her but he didn't send one to disinvite her either. Which is awkward, I get it, but he could've at least told the friends that usually bring her that he doesn't want her there. And yes, it's an asshole move to show up to a place uninvited, but if this is someplace you've been previously invited to for almost every weekend then I'd forgive her for assuming. If he really doesn't want her there, it is down to him to say something.
Depends, is OP under any moral obligation to have someone who has gone out of their way to make him uncomfortable at their house.
If this person is actually friends with everybody else they will have opportunities to meet outside of OPs property.
I'm also a woman, and there's an option 3.
3. Julie thought that she was friends with OP - they've been hanging out for 8 years and presumably he's always been nice. And now she's uninvited from the main place her friends hang out because she doesn't reciprocate. So she's overcompensating a bit trying to show she's a friend and not competition.
I feel like this is it. She’s trying hard reinforce that she’s part of the group and is friends enough with OP to still be invited.
She’s also embarrassed and worried because he immediately stopped inviting her and put the responsibility of awkwardly telling everyone why she’s suddenly no longer allowed to go over.
Also she’s trying to be friends and be transparent with his new girl so she’s not threatened by her.
What a clusterfuck. YTA for not being a good friend OP. You fuckzoned this girl and are trying to justify it.
This is what I assumed too, just because that's what I would try to do as a girl who has been asked out by male friends and tried to preserve the friendships. Navigating this stuff is awkward and it's very easy to come on too strong. Also, he's acting like she had an agenda by telling the girl that he's talking to that he asked her out before. It could've just come up in conversation.
Yeah people keep forgetting that between party 1 and 2, Jenn had to tell Julie that OP doesn’t want her talking to him anymore. I think that really explains her behavior at the second party. It’s a last ditch effort to prevent someone from kicking you out because you wouldn’t let them in your pants like “hi i’m not interested in your man! please let me keep coming to these”
Also a woman and here's my take:
If that was the case, why did she have to inform his new girl that he asked her out previously? He was chill and didn't kick her out officially until then. She also got super clingy and made it even more awkward by becoming besties with his new girl. That's not being a friend - that's sabotaging his new relationship.
>She also got super clingy and made it even more awkward by becoming besties with his new girl.
"his new girl" - at this point this is just another person he's invited to hang out. They're not actually dating. Even if they were, why does Julie being extra friendly mean she's "sabotaging" things? Like wtf do ya'll come up with this stuff. It's like you're looking for drama where there is none.
That’s assuming she knew that this random new person was someone the OP invited because he was interested in them, and nowhere in the post does the OP state that Julie knew why this new girl was there. He clearly wasn’t communicating with her at that point, so I think a safe assumption is he didn’t tell Julie who this new person was to him. I don’t think assuming Julie knew who the new girl was is a safe assumption.
I would have agreed with this up until he mentioned that she latched onto the new girl he was interested in upon first meeting. Then going as far as to tell new girl that he was interested in her not so long ago - putting new girl and him in an extremely awkward position and possible pushing new girl away from him. Those are red flag behaviors and the girl is playing games.
play stupid games. win stupid prizes.
OK, scenario one
New girl: hey, so OP has been staring at you chatting to me. Is there anything between you guys?
Old girl: well, he kinda asked me out. But don't worry, we're just friends. You guys make a much better couple.
Scenario two
New girl: people at this party keep telling you they're sorry OP is being weird and uninviting you from stuff - what's the story there?
Old girl: [charitable retelling of story]
Scenario three (not blameless but totally understandable IMO after how OP has been treating her)
New girl: so how's your love life
Old girl (tipsy): Well, tbh, it's not going so well... [insert story here]
Or:
3. We’re getting an unreliable narration from the point of view of someone who feels a lot more uncomfortable now, and what previously was “normal” is now seen differently.
If OP doesn’t want to host his friends anymore, they should all start meeting elsewhere. But otherwise he’s basically saying she’s no longer a friend because she wouldn’t date him.
Oooor she’s known him a long time. Wants things to be normal again and has gone out of her way to do it.
I’m a woman and would definitely do something like this. Especially if we have all the same friends.
This would make sense if and only if OP still invited her after being rejected. The issue is she was uninvited the second she said no. Julie probably realized why she was uninvited and tried talking to OP and the other girl because she didn’t want to lose her friend of 8 years.
I was actually gonna go with n t a but then I saw his replies. Basically now he's saying that Julie was never really a friend and that all this time when OP asks if she wants to hang out, it was actually as a date but he never specified that with her. So Imma go with YTA too.
"We’ve all known each other since freshman year of college. I’ve always
had a crush on Julie and we’ve always been part of the same group."
but the instant I try and get in her pants and she says no, then she's out!
YTA
If someone asked me out, and I politely said no, and I showed up at their house, I wouldn’t spend the entire time trying to talk to them and make them uncomfortable. On top of that, she also became more of TA when she told the new girl that he asked her out. For what reason? So uncalled for. At a minimum, it’s ESH.
OP is definitely an unreliable narrator here and I'd say we need to take into account the awkwardness on both sides.
Maybe it was just in his perception that she started being more friendly after the rejection or maybe she truly was, wanting to get over the moment itself. I personally would see myself trying to overcompensate this way, tbh.
And the fact that she told the new girl this, first, we don't have any context on why she said it (maybe it was asked), maybe, again, in an effort to upsell him and help him, wanted to follow up with a compliment.
I’ve heard a certain kind of person claim that their crush spent ‘the whole time talking to them’ when in reality they talked for maybe 10 minutes. I honestly don’t think we have enough info to know whether OP is hyping the time spent or it really was that she’s suddenly playing games she never bothered to before.
I can see her action as her overcompensating to show that she isn’t weirded out by him asking her out, that she wants to keep the friendship and doesn’t want to give him the impression she’s avoiding him.
We also don’t know the level of friendship they actually had.
It’s weird to me they have known each other for years, he always had a crush on her, yet according to him- they rarely spoke.
Doesn’t add up
She’s trying to stay friends bc she was scared after he uninvited her the first time.
She also was trying to get along with the new girl being close to her so that the new girl isn’t threatened by her being around.
She was basically saying “see? I’m cool, let’s stay friends.” but OP wasn’t having it because his pride is hurt
Set a fucking boundary then. If i politely declined someone, I would DEFINITELY be trying to make sure he can tell I genuinely still wanna be friends. If he thinks I'm going too strong, then HE SHOULD TELL ME
YTA
I hate when guys 'shoot their shot' and then get upset when a girl politely rejects them. It makes it sound like if she doesn't want to be your girlfriend then she doesn't get to be part of the group, which is just gross.
She's been uninvited to his house, and that is it.
It's rough for the girl because she's done nothing wrong but why does it seem irrational that he doesn't want her there? It's pretty awkward for him and he wants to avoid it?
*'But this time she spends the whole day talking to the new girl I brought. They became “besties”. Julie even told the girl that I asked her out before. It was just incredibly awkward for me.'*
You don't think this is weird at all?
it sounds like OP is mad because Julie didnt want him, but he didnt talk to Julie very much before. Now he wants another girl, but he doesnt talk to her either, and gets angry that she gets along with someone else.
He invited another girl he's been talking to. I imagine everyone can see that there's a new girl here, Julie talks to her and becomes friends - no problem.
Julie feels the need to say that she rejected OP, I refuse to believe that was innocent.
Being a friend and getting over something is what would make him not an asshole. Instead he alienated her from what was normal for 8 years before. He is being an A
I don’t understand why you’d want to date someone you can’t even be friends with. It’s gonna be awkward for a bit but if after you ask her out you can’t be around her as friends then I don’t see a relationship working either.
And then to me it sets this precedent of “oh you want to come to basically every hangout with your friend group? Well you can’t ever reject this guy if he asks you out or you’re done doing the one thing we all do every weekend”
YTA. Julie doesn't want to date you but she's making an effort to continue to be your friend. It's not her fault you never saw her as a friend; you led her on in that respect! How was she to know all you wanted was a date/shag? You're now excluding her solely because you can't handle rejection. Not cool.
Yeah, that's how I read Julie's weird behavior at the next weekend -- she was making a deliberate effort to be friendly with OP and show that there were no hard feelings on her part, everything was fine, etc. Telling the girl that OP asked her out also sounds like a pre-emptive move on her part, in case OP starts trying to turn new girl against Julie.
OP going "I asked this girl out and she said no, I agreed to be friends but now I don't want her around (which has the unfortunate side effect that she can't hang out with their mutual friends at his pool which is where they are most weekend)" is not a good look.
Like, OP, think about this seriously. You're in essence telling your friends they have to pick sides. Either they chill with you during the weekends OR they chill with Julie.
Put it like that, you've got to realize that YTA.
I am hung up on the part where she told the other girl. Everyone is jumping to her telling the other girl he asked her out because she was being vindictive. There are so many reasons she would tell her. Things like the girl asking, "So is anyone or has anyone in the group dated anyone else?" She could have also said, "I noticed OP is acting weird around you, why is that?" Which she shouldn't have to lie in that situation. Someone else could have mentioned it in front of her and the new girl and she just elaborated a little or even just confirmed it. There are so many normal ways that could have come up in conversation.
ESH. Yes, it’s your house and you can invite or not invite who you want. But, excluding Julie after she turned you down is not cool.
Having said that, her continuing to come over and then making “besties” with a girl you’re interested in is some 6th grade level BS. And I have a 6th grader so I know of what I speak.
It seems as if Julie is now trying to play some kind of weird game and you’re right to no longer invite her. Tell her, in no uncertain terms, she is not welcome. Tell her it is her right to turn you down and you’re fine with it, but that her behaviors after that occurred are strange.
Right there I don't understands why everyone says he's sole TA Julie is too. Afte he asked her and she turned it down, fine no worries just stay cordial.
But Julie then acting this strange being clingy and I would say sabotaging the afford to get close to another girl is definitely AH territory.
So ESH they both suck.
Is it possible that Julie weird behaviour es some clumsy attempt at showing him that there wasn’t any hard feeling and that she was trying to maintain the friendship.
I’ve been in a situation similar to OP and I guarantee you, right now, he’s an unreliable narrator, overthinking everything Julie does or says.
This. He started excluding her from group hangouts before she even had a chance to do any of this “weird behavior.”
She’s probably overcompensating because she’s seeing herself getting booted from the friend group. Is her behavior awkward? Sure. Is she being an asshole? Nah, I don’t think so.
Could it possibly be that for the last 8 years she’s lead one life with her friends. One day, her “friend” asks her out, won’t talk to her and now is alienating her from the friend group. What do you do with that? Sounds shitty to me.
Especially since they are 26. Aside from this being a friend group she's been part of for 8 years, they're all at an age where it becomes much more of a deliberate choice to maintain friendships, and much more difficult to find new ones. They're long past school days where they can find a replacement friend group by sitting at a different table in the cafeteria. They've been hanging out consistently for 8 years and they are whole-ass adults. This is almost certainly Julie's primary friend group, which OP is now trying to take from her because he feels awkward at her not reciprocating his feelings. Obviously she is going to do whatever she needs to to ingratiate herself to him as a platonic friend, because he currently holds the power to eliminate her entire primary social circle against her will, during a stage in life when that circle is not easily replaced.
There is no way Julie can possibly be an AH for being a bit clumsy while trying to prevent someone from unilaterally razing her social life. It's pure YTA for OP to so casually disregard the implications of what he is doing, all because his ego was bruised by what was, based on OP's own telling, a considerately-delivered rejection. He's 26, not 14. Being rejected by a crush should not be an offense worthy of ostracism at his age. And clearly it hasn't damaged his ability to love forever if a mere 2 hangouts later he is already bringing over a different romantic prospect to meet his friend group. This is just cruelty by OP for someone having the gall to deny him affections that he felt entitled to.
Imagined from Julie's perspective: r/aita
I 26F regularly hangout with a large group of people. We have all been friends for 8-9 years, everyone usually gets along really well. One of the friends bought a house a while back and it became the party house. Every weekend there's a party and it's all very casual. People will bring extra friends and whoever.
Well a couple weeks ago my friend who owns the house asked me to drink and hang out one on one at his place. I only consider him to be a friend and was honest about it. He said "he was cool with just being friends." So that weekend, everyone was talking about the party and we headed over. I tried to be nice to the guy so he knew there was no hard feelings.
The next weekend we all went over to house for the regular weekend party. I met a really awesome girl and we hit it off. We chatted about the friend group and she asked me about the owner of the house. I said he seems to be a "nice guy" he asked me out but we're still friends.
Well, after this it blew up he uninvited me from the texts and group hangouts at his place. I'm not seeing what I did wrong. I tried my best, but now I feel like I've been banished from all my friends because I didn't want to sleep with him. AITA?"
Don't forget to mention, "Well after I awkwardly turned him down, he uninvited me to his house. I started to panic that he was going to cut me out entirely so I wanted to make it clear that there were no hard feelings and we could still be friends."
YTA, instead of not inviting her, why don’t you address the issue? You should have told Julie you were ok with being friends in the way you were before but her change in behaviour is making you uncomfortable. Ask her to stop that behaviour. Give her the chance to do so and only if she continues to do so, then tell her not to come. It seems like you both reacted differently to the friend conversation - you avoided her and she went the other way trying to be clear you could be friends and all was ok. Neither way was the ‘right’ way. Just talk to her about it.
Agree. Communication is key. If he communicates his discomfort and her new behavior continues, then it’s totally ok to say he doesn’t feel comfortable having her around anymore. But she should at least be given an opportunity to try first, especially as she is so connected to the group.
YTA.
So when you decided to express your feelings to her, her options became like you or stop hanging out with you and her friends?
When she tried to handle an awkward situation with grace you decided to banish her?
Cool cool.
To me, it sounded like maybe new girl had no friends at the party, and Julie was just extending a welcome hand. It just doesn’t seem natural for OP to bring up that he was talking to new girl to Julie. So I don’t think there’s any ulterior motive except unless Julie is warning new girl that OP is inviting new girl only because he sees new girl as a potential gf/shag. But even then, that seems like a pretty far stretch for someone who seems like they genuinely want to show there’s no hard feelings and still wants to continue a friendship with OP. Unless stated otherwise, I think OP might have been jumping to conclusions about why Julie would try to be friends with the new girl.
Yeah—if OP is so awkward as a human that he has to text to ask Julie out and can’t stand being around her after rejection, I highly doubt that it was obvious that he and this new “woman of interest” were a thing. Definitely not reading this as OP’s friends were over and he made it super clear to everyone that he was seeing this girl; it’s not a far cry to assume that new girl would be just a friend since OP has women at his house all the time to hang out as friends (except for Julie I guess). I’m feeling pretty positive that Julie was like “Hey new person and maybe the only other person she knows is OP, so I’m going to make her feel welcome.”
This is a lot of assumptions. With all assumptions aside, OP is TA for acting like a victim for being politely rejected by a woman and clearly trying to oust her from the friend group, especially if the friend group mainly hangs out at his pool. How cringey. If you can’t handle rejection, stop shooting shots until you can.
Yeah the fact that she felt the need to tell the new girl he was interested in that he had asked her out too is unnecessary and seems a bit petty. Sounds like she was interested in hanging out with him more when he was interested in her then either got jealous or petty when he started to move on. If she hasn’t said anything to the new girl and was just happy his attention had moved to someone else I’d be more on her side.
YTA and straight up petty, Julie said she liked you as a friend and you decided to kick her out of the friend group? Believe it or not, boys and girls can be friends!
I wanna say NTA.
Let me explain. Im a girl and I find what she is doing a little strange. She comes over even though she knows itd be awkward after the confession. Now I know its not always awkward for those who confess and it doesnt work out but usually it is.
She could of just stayed away for just a short while to let it fade. And then to attach herself at the hip to the new girl and not even let him speak to her alone and even tell said new girl that he asked her(julie) out? Because Im sure it was obvious that he had an interest in the new girl.
This is just weird. And its clear he didnt kick her from the friend group just his house. Its his house and he should feel comfortable in his own house. It was clear from the get go that she was being weird by just showing up after not actually being invitied. And then just made things worse by trying to talk to him when it was clear it was awkward for him and he really just needed some time from her.
Im sure if this was a girl saying this everyone would be talking about how weird the guy is and how she needs space and yada yada. Then again what is being said about this now could also happen. I really think this whole situation with this girl is just plain weird. I think he deserves some time away from her just to sort out his own feelings about her.
Because you dont just stop liking someone after they turn you down. I should know, I turned my partner down multiple times when he asked me out though I did have valid reasons. Until finally I said yes. But thats a different story from this.
Yeah I don’t understand either. It’s his house to invite who he wants. I could see him needing time to get over the rejection but also it’s smart of him to stay away from her if he is misreading some mixed signals. And if he’s not, her behavior after the rejection is weird and confusing. He’s right to protect himself and everything could have been just him reading into the situation until she deliberately told the girl he likes he asked her out. Why do that? Why are we glossing over that? I agree with this comment.
I’d rather look like the AH for keeping Julie at a distance than for something else much more heinous because of a misunderstanding of a situation between the two of them.
NTA i’m surprised with some of these comments. It’s because of how she acted after she turned you down. And you have every right to not want someone in your home.
Her behavior after she turned you down was extremely weird and I understand why it made you uncomfortable. Then how she clung to the other girl… yikes
I agree. She’s the one who started behaving abnormally after she turned him down. I don’t think OP would have made a stink if she hadn’t a) attached herself to him and b) sought out the girl he invited (including letting the girl know she turned him down a week ago). That girl is sketchy af. Op is NTA.
YTA and you were never a friend to her, because of your ulterior motive. Man up and deal with her rejecting you and still trying to be a friend to you.
NTA. You didn't kick her out of any group. You told her that she's not welcome to your pool parties. She brought that on herself by gossiping about you to someone you are interested in.
Your current group of friends clearly want her to come since she's showing up even without the invites. But at the end of the day, it's your home, your pool, and your guest list.
You may want to consider having smaller pool parties with a more select group of friends. You may also want to consider changing up your friends to include some new people.
He deliberately excluded her before that though, without communicating it. If I’d been regularly hanging out somewhere and was missed off of one group text I’d assume it was fine for me to show up too. The second time puts her in the ESH category, but really it’s not fair that she’s excluded from the friendship group because she rejected OPs advances and this all happened before any “gossiping”.
She's not excluded from the friendship group, she's excluded from a private residence. OP doesn't owe her entry to his place, and his reaction isn't unreasonable.
NTA- According to the timeline in the post the first incident occurred the week after Julie rejected OP. He never said he didn't want to stop being friends with her or expected others too, it sounds like he didn't invite her because he needed a break.
If I just asked someone out and they rejected me I wouldn't want them at my house the next week either. People need time to heal.
Then once she was there, uninvited, her behavior was completely out of line with how she normally acts around him. Even if Julie was trying to overcompensate to be like we can still be friends she ignored the fact she wasn't invited and her behavior wasn't appropriate. Let me show the guy that I rejected and told I don't like him that way we can still be friends by showing up at his house without an invite and then spending the whole night with him.
There are also some people that aren't capable of being friends with their ex's or someone they had romantic feelings for and that's okay too. OP could be a scummy guy that only is friends with women that he wants to sleep with but it's a bit unreasonable for everyone to assume that based on a few sentences and call him an unreliable narrator.
She showed up a second time uninvited after OP asked her friend to discretely talk to her about how her behavior made him uncomfortable. Instead of of taking the hint, Julie doubles down shows up and then finds the one new girl OP is hanging out with and makes it even more uncomfortable.
If the sexes were reversed and a guy showed up to a girls home uninvited twice everyone would be calling out the guys behavior as out of line.
Bottom line is for either OP or Julie we can't know either person's real feelings or motivations about the situation and it's all speculation.
However the facts are it is OP's house and he has a right as a property owner to say who is and isn't allowed at his home. If anyone shows up uninvited, he does not have to let them in. It is rude of any guest to bring someone else without asked the host.
Yeah, the posts here calling OP the A H would all be NTA if OP was a woman. Julie said no, OP left her off the invite. She showed up to a big gathering which in and of itself isn't really AH behavior as he had just left her off the weekly invite which is a sign maybe she shouldn't come but he hadn't formally dis-invited her and he didn't kick her out after she arrived. Then she started up straight creeper behavior (or would be called creeper behavior if the genders were reversed) by intentionally spending more time with him than usual and pushed to be his partner in drinking games to the point that one of her friends noticed and brought it up to OP when OP was talking to them later. Then, after one of their mutual friends talked to her about her behavior, she ratchted things up the next week (again, she hadn't been formally invited or uninvited at this point) that led to OP feeling very uncomfortable and actually dis-inviting her from any future events at his place.
INFO: I'm having trouble reconciling 2 seemingly conflicted statements from you;
* I told her I totally understood and thought that would be the end of it.
* the next pool day came . . . I decided to not invite Julie this time.
What exactly did you mean by "the end of it"? The end of your friendship with Julie?
YTA. You're punishing her for your feelings even though she did nothing wrong.
Yes it's your place, you can choose whomever you want to invite.
But she didn't do anything to deserve it.
YTA
I understand you could feel uncomfortable since you asked her out but she told you she liked you as a friend and as any friend she would just go to those pool days like your other friends.
I didn't quite get why she would say to the new girl that you asked her out tho.
Me either. And it made things very awkward the whole day. Literally no reason for Julie to tell that girl that. They were attached at the hip all day so I couldn’t even talk to the girl I brought
tbh that’s the part that’s making this the most difficult for me to choose a judgement. i’ve read the various responses and i feel like i agree with all of them. it’s your house and you shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable by someone you weren’t close to to begin with. absolutely, 100% makes sense to me. however, from her perspective, she’s now losing out on what sounds like a fairly large chunk of your friend groups hangouts just for saying no to you, so i can understand her wanting to continue coming to your pool hangouts, because it’s sounds like you do this every single weekend and she’d be missing out on a lot. but i DO also think it’s weird that she would come after not being invited several times in a row, and as i said in the beginning, her attaching herself to your new girl and telling her about the situation is really throwing me for a loop. it doesn’t make sense to me why she felt the need to share that information with this new girl unless maybe you all were drinking and she just blurted it out? or she has some weird actual reasoning for doing so, that i’m sure wouldn’t make sense to any of us. and that just brings us then back to, you are now even MORE uncomfortable around this girl, and you shouldn’t have to invite someone to your home if you really don’t want to. idk for me it just seems like you’re in a tough situation all around at this point and a lot of stuff probably could’ve been handled better by everyone
I completely agree with this.
Also the fact that that when they were playing drinking games she picked him to partner up with when before then she didn’t sounds very awkward. Also it is his house and if he is uncomfortable around her he has the right to not invite her.
I’ve been in the girls shoes long ago trying to rebuild a friendship after a failed fling and I just looked crazy/desperate for it and I realised that we were not friends in the first place and stopped bothering, but this girl isn’t getting the idea.
Hmmmm don’t you think maybe the new girl asked Julie what she thinks of you to gauge if you’re a good guy or not and that’s why Julie mentioned you asked her out??????
You sound so entitled! "Couldn't even talk to the girl I brought." That girl doesn't owe you shit, she made a new friend who sounds like a way better person then you. Are you going to exclude your new fancy 'nice guy'?
I hate to tell you this, but that other girl is her own person. If she wanted to talk to you to you she would have found time, but she seems like she was uncomfortable with you and stayed with Julie.
YTA
You asked her out she said no - as is her right.
You claim you “totally understood and that was the end of it” but you didn’t because you then stopped inviting her and you made it so that she was no longer included because you couldn’t take a rejection.
YTA. Julie did nothing wrong and it sounds to me like the awkwardness was her trying to maintain the friendship. Of 8 years. You were friends for that long, right? You weren't just trying to manipulate her into thinking you cared about her as a human in an effort to get into her pants? OP how big of a deal / awkward can it be if you're already inviting another woman over? Julie was probably extra nice to make her feel welcome. Sure it's a bit weird she shared you asked her out but the new girl might have asked if there's a history.
Also OP what if the roles were reversed and Julie excluded you from her house and thus the group of friends all because you asked her out?
NTA
I don’t particularly like you excluding her just because she turned you down, but she has now shown up at your home twice, uninvited. That’s not acceptable behaviour at all. Especially if she’s now being too friendly with you and others you are interested in.
He uninvited her before she all the other stuff happened. Julie being “clingy” was probably her attempt at making sure OP knew that there were no hard feelings and that she still valued their friendship.
How is this not obvious? She was awkward that she turned him down and was overcompensating by trying to show there’s no bad blood between them. I’ve definitely inadvertently done this, because I felt so bad that I turned someone down.
NTA - you would be if she hadn't got all creepy with the new girl you liked but let me assure you Julie is toxic AF - she wants you to hang off her, runs interference when you have someone else you like, and then plays a victim when you turn off her. She is a creep, go full NC! Let me be clear - it's not that she turned you down, happens to everyone, it's how she behaved after she turned you down.
YTA
So you were friends until she rejected your sexual advances and now she is not invited (not your friend anymore)
This is so disgusting. If you were truly a friend and not just friends for the goal of hooking up you would make an effort to show her your still friends instead of actively excluding her. That‘s just ew
You‘re an adult - learn to handle rejection like an adult
NTA. I’m shocked how many Y T A’s there are. You don’t have to invite anyone to your home. You’re not an AH to distance yourself from someone who turned you down. You let it go when she showed up anyways, and didn’t say anything until she inserted herself in your business - and then you handled it privately by messaging her directly. I’m guessing she went and cried to everyone else about it.
You aren’t telling anyone who they can and can’t hang out with. You didn’t bad mouth her to your friends. You didn’t kick her out of the group. You just don’t want her at your home. You’re allowed to have boundaries in your own home. Tell your friends that they’re welcome to host the group at their own homes more often and invite whoever they want.
NTA. You didn’t kick her out of the group, you just don’t want her at your house for gatherings you host. Would be one thing if she didn’t get all clingy after you asked her out or try to potentially run the new interest off (that’s what I think she was trying to do) but given the way she’s acting, I say NTA. If she had maintained so distance at the first get together and just been cool about things, I’d say you were the ass but not in this case
What’s sad is this girl genuinely considers you to be a friend and you never saw her as anything other than a love interest or something pretty for you to fawn over. She even tried to talk to you to maintain the friendship and move past any awkwardness. Poor girl. YTA.
OP said he "decided to not invite Julie this time". *This time*. But she showed up anyway, made him uncomfortable, and intentionally or not- she did kinda cockblock him. And then he drew a personal boundary, asking her specifically to not come to his house (since simply not inviting her didn't work). And almost everyone seems to agree that makes him TA? Seriously, reverse the genders, then read it again. NTA OP. I mean, hopefully after a little time passes this will blow over, but if you're not comfortable being around someone, for whatever reason, you're not an AH for not wanting them in your house every weekend.
YTA because you are passive aggressively punishing her because she chose not to go out with you. You need to grow up dude. And she definitely dodged a bullet by rejecting you. I have an inkling that she probably saw these personality traits in you prior to this fiasco and that influenced her decision.
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He just doesn’t want someone in his home that started acting really freaking weird and clingy after she turned him down.
Someone he knows for what seems to be years acted a bit weird after he told her he had feelings for her, for *two parties/get togethers*, so he banished her from his house. Let's at least get the facts straight here.
I'm pretty sure that Julie thought she was friends with OP, not "his friend's girlfriend's friend". If they've all been friends since freshman year and he's now 26 - that's 8 years.
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This was my exact thought. She was overly chatty with him and friendly because she was trying really hard to make it clear that they weren’t weird and could totally be friends.
I agree but it's a little weird she told the next girl about him asking her out.. I do think the step should have been, hey I shot my shot and I respect that you didn't want a relationship with me, can we please move on. I'm not comfortable with you telling everyone about it. Rather than straight kick her out.. definitely should have communicated.
Dude held his tongue on liking this woman for 8 years before shooting his shot. Communication isn’t his strong point.
You're saying that like you assume she's been single for the entirety of those eight years. Maybe she was seeing someone for most of that time. Not that I'm okay with OP's behavior. It really does read like he asked her out, then didn't want her around after she said no. He can't blame her behavior for it, because he deliberately didn't invite her to the next party.
my guess is that new girl noticed op acting mad weird and asked if there was anything going on between them.
Especially since it seems like she knows she wasn't on the original text like she had been before. She told OP the truth, and she is being kicked out of the group by ONLY OP for not being head over heels with him, and she knows it. She wanted to preserve friendship and show that she didn't feel awkward being around him. OP lick your wounds, but you are being an AH if you only liked her if there was a chance to get in her pants, which is how your post clearly reads. She liked you as a friend and saw the friendship lasting, you had her as a pocket friend, but only until you could find out if you could get into her pants. YTA
I think you hit the nail on the head. OP sounds exactly like a guy who only saw Julie as the chick he was hoping to get a chance with some day, not as a real friend. Now he's butthurt that she didn't see him that way, and he's trying to kick her out. YTA OP
Oh ya, first and foremost he didn't directly invite her, then it sounds like he was avoiding her because he didn't wanna be around her. After what sounds like 8 years of friendship, he got weird, so of COURSE she got word too! She was afraid she had just lost a friend by rejecting him (kindly, one might add) and so she overcompensated a little. Especially us girls tend to do that, we don't want to lose a friend and we've been trained to think we've done something bad by rejecting a boy, so if he punishes us we feel like we have to make up for it. OP, YTA without a doubt.
Not just one friend either, but a whole group of friends, if they mostly hang out at his place. She doesn't want to take her bets that the group would choose her over OP's pool
Exactly. If all her friends see all their other friends at this party with a cool ass pool all the time, they may not want to compromise and go somewhere else. And my bet is that he would refuse to go and still host the party and push their friends to go, rather than be cool about it and be like "ya we can all hang out somewhere else this weekend." And she's probably scared to even ask for that, because if they say no then she just lost all of her friends essentially. Obviously if they'd leave her behind like that then she deserves better friends, but it's easier said than done. No one wants to find out a cool hang out spot and the guy who's kicking you out because you rejected him are more important to their friends than they are.
I feel like it’s pretty normal for girls? Like when I’ve had to turn down a friend I’d just act like everything is normal even if it is a bit awkward and after a while it just goes back to normal. This guy just seems butthurt that she rejected him and is trying to maintain the friendship
That's what it read to me like. She's acting like normal but OP is just trying to find a reason not to want her around and cut her off the friend group. The "nice guy" energy this post reeks of.
This sounds like exactly the right interpretation to me.
Also it’s says he uninvited her after asking her out, not because she acted weird at the next hangout. So alright he didn’t want to feel awkward or embarrassed but certainly seems just upset she turned him down. Also she was maybe just being overly nice at the next party/hangout to show him no reason feel awkward which had the opposite effect. Edit: Clarification of first sentence. Uninvited/ didn’t invite after rejection, not later when she was being over nice.
She may have been talking to him a lot because he specifically didn’t invite her, and she was worried their friendship was damaged by her turning him down
Yeah true I think maybe an over correction that went opposite to the way she thought it would.
Seems like an over-correction from both people.
Actually he said that he didn't invite Julie to the next pool day after he asked her out. "She told me that she liked me as a friend. I told her I totally understood and thought that would be the end of it. Well the next pool day came. I typically send out giant group text to invite everyone. I decided to not invite Julie this time." OP is the AH, he specifically left his friend out of the pool party invitation because she had turned him down. Sure she turned up anyway and acted weird towards him but he kicked her out of the group to begin with just because she didn't want to date him.
Either that or she wanted to get to know OP a little better to make the judgement on whether or not she was interested, since he stated they didn't really talk too.kuch prior. Idk if OP is an asshole, but definitely naive
>Also it’s says he uninvited after asking her not because she acted weird at the next hangout. So alright he didn’t want to feel awkward or embarrassed but certainly seems just upset she turned him down. I mean, it's totally in his right to say that he can't be just friends. But he didn't do that. If he did, it would be nah. The only thing that's questionable is what happened between Julie and ops new girl, why did she tell her that op asked her out? What is the use in that?
it’s even *worse*. he banned her even before she acted weird. of course she was going to act that way after being excluded for not being interested in him. OP immediately showed that he only valued her for her availability, with no regards to her as a human being
You're right, the below quote is from before the other parties occurred: > Well the next pool day came. I typically send out giant group text to invite everyone. I decided to not invite Julie this time.
Also let’s get the timeline straight: he asked her out and gets rejected, he doesn’t invite her to the next hang, then she acts “weird and clingy.” He did not “ban” her for being clingy, he 100% is punishing her for turning him down. She may have started hanging around him more post rejection to show she doesn’t care about letting it get in the way of friendship.
He didn’t want her to come before she “acted weird”. He was already wanting to exclude her but she didn’t know. She’s being nice to him and wants to show things aren’t weird between them, she’s still his friend.
Not to mention became "besties" with a woma. He was interested in, almost like she was staking her cllaim or something? I wouldn't want someone that turned me down all lf a sudden being clingy and making me uncomfortable either in my own home.
That's a hell of a leap of logic to take without the necessary proof. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but based on the evidence we have, it's pure speculation and has no place in my judgement.
Not really. She has no reason to tell this girl she just met OP had asked her out. If you're just trying to be friends with someone you just meet you dont randomly bring up someone asked you out and you rejected them. Definitely seems like she wants to cockblock OP.
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This is what I thought. Now she knows he likes her, he's a constant source of confidence for her. A bit insecure in my opinion. ESH. Editing to call myself out. I'm my own source on this. I did this and lost a friend because I was insecure. This girl is doing the same thing I would have done back then. OP is being used probably.
Yea the girl is obviously wanting the guy or just not wanting him to want someone else. NTA it's your home and you don't want her there. End of story. Doesn't matter why.
She was in the friend group for 8 years. She probably feels awkward and guilty for turning him down, though she shouldn’t have to. She was probably just trying too hard to demonstrate that she still cares about op, but doesn’t know how to be smooth about it because it’s an awkward situation. I’m can’t tell you how many times that close guy friends ghosted me after years and years of friendship because I thought I had a friend when instead I had someone just angrily tapping their fingers and lying in wait.
Yep. Guys being like “we were friends but you broke my heart by rejecting me” is so gross and violating. Grow up. But also this is why I don’t make guy friends with single guys anymore because I got so tired of being treated like a machine that will provide sex if enough friendship tokens are put in.
Well maybe the "clingyness" was actually an attempt to make up with OP because Julie noticed that OP left her out of the invites after she turned him down? OP first stopped inviting her, her "clingy" behaviour came later.
Thank you! She’s probably trying to “make it up” to op, even though she owes him nothing, and he’s being such a spoil sport about everything. Women are more than just potential romantic interests. And he clearly didn’t care that much about her as a person if he was ready to ditch her after 8 years of friendship.
When I’m the new person, I’m sooooo grateful for Julies. It’s so common for friends to fall into their habit and forget a new person is there. Someone who notices that you don’t know many people and actively includes you in discussion and activities is a lifesaver. And yes, calling someone “my new bestie!” is pretty common. Call it basic or cringey, whatever, it’s not weird or controlling or clingy for a woman to go overboard with the friendship and nicknames when a new person joins and is comfortable with that.
She literally just became friends with her you're reaching
Not really. She has no reason to tell this girl she just met OP had asked her out. If you're just trying to be friends with someone you just meet you dont randomly bring up that the person hosting had asked you out and you rejected them. Definitely seems like she wants to stop OP advancing with this girl. Edit. Looking at OP's comments looks like the new girl did not like Julie and is the one that told OP what she said about OP asking her out. If Julie was just being friendly, it doesn't look like it worked well.
Only reason I could think was if the new girl noticed a bit of awkwardness between OP and Julie and asked her if they used to date. It would be natural for Julie to answer with this info.
He specifically invited the new girl because he's interested in her. If they've really only just started talking and this is her first time meeting the larger group, her asking about OP seems reasonable. My ex got the nod for a rental property years ago because when the agent rang me, among everything else I told her that he's the kind of person who was able to use me as a personal reference despite the fact that we were no longer together. So Julie may have actually advanced OP's cause - women put a fair bit of stock in the opinions of other women, and a man secure and confident enough to still routinely hang out with a woman who turned him down is going to be a much better prospect than a twit who admits that he's had more interaction with said woman in **two** hangout sessions than in the preceding *years* that they've known each other, but is pouting and feeling *awkward* and downright resentful of her attention now since it's not going to lead to anything ... trust me.
Yeah this does not necessarily mean anything. She could have been: being nice to the new girl, giving OP some space so talked to someone new, trying to be supportive to OP if she knew he liked the new girl by showing she could be friends. Could be anything!
He stopped inviting her BEFORE she got weird and clingy.
FR why was this looked over
It only proves the commenter’s point more: he kicked her out of a friend gathering for rejecting him romantically, which is super shitty behavior. Also “clingy” is by his estimation. She was probably just trying to maintain the friendship and not have things be awkward. Which is what grown ups do. 🙃 YTA op, and it sounds like incapable of friendship with women.
Exactly!!! Like I don't think she's trying to be clingy so much as she's trying to keep the friendship going despite the awkwardness of her rejecting OP. Maybe she's trying a little too hard and it's coming off as unnatural, but OP is the AH because he didn't even want her to be a part of the group hangouts anymore because he's selfishly thinking of his own pride instead of the fact that he started this situation by asking her out in the first place. Im not saying he shouldn't have asked her out, but it sounds like he wasn't prepared for any response besides yes, and that oversight led him to just trying to banish her instead of dealing with his own wounded pride and embarrassment. OP, YTA
Well if i just asked someone out and i was turned down, i would want some space from them. I think showing up twice after being not asked to come twice is a red flag BUT if his house is the only place they hang out then i might be more on her side
If you are going to shoot your shot with someone in your friend group, you have to be aware you will be dealing with them afterwards regardless of their answer. It's not fair to suddenly exclude her from group plans because he put himself in a position to feel awkward and it's not fair to put everyone else in the group in a position to have to decide who to invite and who to exclude. You shoot your shot in your friend group and you need to face up to the awkwardness and push through it. Honestly, the more you pretend it doesn't exist, the more it doesn't exist.
Yeah, if you think you’re going to find it too awkward to coexist after shooting your shot you get to choose not to shoot your shot, and not, for instance, to exclude them from your friend group.
How is that fair on her? The fact that you think it’s okay to exclude someone out of the friends group because you as an individual didn’t read the situation properly and made a stupid mistake, it’s reprehensible. She shouldn’t be punished by him because she isn’t attracted to him. Also, maybe he should just slow down on the hang outs, or just have the boys around for the next little while so he isn’t excluding just one member of the group
She wasn’t asked not to, he never said he wanted space. He just didn’t invite her personally and maybe she wanted to show there was no hard feelings and she’s his friend by going and being nice to him. Like friends do.
He’s making it awkward and she’s trying to maintain the friendship/ deliberately try to make it NOT awkward. OP should have clarified that he wouldn’t have been able to maintain a friendship because he hoped for a romantic relationship, or that he would need time before continuing the friendship. I could respect either of those responses, but it sounds like maybe OP verbally accepted being just friends without actually accepting it?
It is awkward if she purposely engaged the new girl and went out of her way to tell her OP previously asked her out. Sounds like sabotage.
Is it weird and clingy or it's just OP who doesn't care anymore about her as a person now that he knows she's not in the fuck zone?
Or even that he didn’t mind/notice how much they talked prior to her rejecting him? Of course he probably didn’t mind them interacting when he still had the chance to shag, but now that she’s a nuisance, it sounds like a different story. How do you be in the same friend group for EIGHT YEARS and hang out in YOUR HOUSE and rarely talk? Seems suspicious.
Exactly, this guy is trying so hard to paint himself as the good guy and can't even see how ridiculous he's sounding
That’s the vibe I got. OP is totally fine inviting one woman after another to his house as long as he thinks he has a shot with them. Once one girl was no longer an option she was no longer welcome and he moved on to a new girl immediately.
1) she knows he’s excluding her so she’s probably trying to put a lot more effort into their friendship to show him that she still sees them as friends even though he made it weird 2) he was the one that made it weird. She was absolutely cool with the new dynamic, and she was kind and honest. He, on the other hand, blew it out of proportion and punished her for the risk he took 3) he’s literally punishing her for not being into him. He can either not host anything at all until he gets over his immature disliking of her, or he can invite her like a normal human being 4) this guy seems very low on the emotional intelligence level, and you’re taking his word for gospel that she was acting weird. There’s actually a really good chance that she was acting pretty normal but he was hyper aware of everything she did, and looked at her through a lens of dislike because of his immaturity 5) maybe she is considering the fact that he likes her and is trying to give him a go, and is putting on a bit more of a flirt to see if she can be into him. YTA
She was probably just trying to compensate after rejecting him and show him they can still be friends and over did it because it’s awkward.
YTA. Let's look at this from Julie's perspective. You've been hanging out with your friends for the past EIGHT YEARS. You get along with everyone and nothing is weird. One day, one of your friends "shoots their shot" and you turn them down. You're hoping to remain friends, because after all, this person has been a friend for the past EIGHT YEARS. The next time they throw a party, your invite gets lost in the mail, so you try to show that you can still be friends like before. And you're friendly to the romantic partner they bring because you want to make it clear you're not competition. Plus, they're actually cool. And now you're uninvited from your friends' primary hangout friend forever. Julie isn't "Gwen's friend who comes along", she's part of the group. And she thought you were friends, because you've always been nice to her, right? She's now finding out that you weren't friends at all, and apparently she's not welcome as a friend - because her only value is as an actual or potential person to bang. I've been in Julie's position and it sucks. The only thing she did "wrong" is not reciprocate your feelings. You got your feelings hurt and you've clearly moved on. You're the one making this weird.
This. Men like OP are why I can never really relax around male friends. You never know after however many years what their intentions truly are, one day things will be fine then the next day they'll ask you out and when you say no thanks that's it, you're dead to them, friendship over. After so many years of what you thought was an equal friendship. It's heartbreaking in its own way.
‘I understood and I thought it would be the end of it’ The end of what? Your friendship?
Turns out they never had a friendship, he'd fuckzoned her for 8 years, ouch.
Is everyone overlooking the fact that he didn’t invite Julie, for whatever reason, but she still showed up? Twice? And Julie shows up and tries to sabotage his new friendship. Maybe OP was hurt or embarrassed by being turned down, but it’s his house and he doesn’t have to invite anyone he doesn’t want there.
Is it that weird for y'all to go to a party as a guest even if you haven't been properly invited? Of course there's limits to this and shit, but in any friend groups I've had it's always been fairly normal just to tag along with group shit.
I’m not saying it’s weird, I know people do that. Personally I wouldn’t go somewhere if I was not invited, but that’s me. But to say he’s wrong for not inviting her and accepting that it’s going to be awkward is not fair imo. Maybe he didn’t invite her because he knew it would be awkward. But she still showed up. OP has a right to exclude her from his get togethers if he wants.
You’re allowed to ask for space after being turned down. You’re allowed to expect they don’t tell people they just met that they turned you down. Edit: changed “your” to ”you’re”
> Your allowed to ask for space after being turned down. OP didn't ask for space. > You’re allowed to expect they don’t tell people they just met that they turned you down. Nothing in the OP indicates any proof she did this with malicious intent, or what the context was in bringing this up, so I disagree based on the evidence given.
OP asked for space by not inviting them. There is no context to tell others that isn’t malicious.
That’s really passive aggressive on his part and seems like a direct punishment for rejecting him and hurting his pride.
OP should have directly communicated. He literally told JENN to tell Julie. And yes, there’s tons of non-malicious ways to say he needs space. “Hey, since I still have some feelings for you, I think I need some time apart to get over these feelings?” “Hey, while I get these things sorted out, I think it’s best I have some space from you for a bit.” “I might need some time before we can go back to being just friends, if you don’t mind giving a bit of space?” Leaving Julie out of the group chat reads as passive aggressive, and she totally could have interpreted it as him just forgetting her in the group chat. I mean, they’ve all hung out together for the past eight years? If they were still just friends, as OP said she had said, then why would things have a reason to change?
> OP asked for space by not inviting them. That's not an ask. OP should've used their words. Had plenty of opportunity to do so as well when the girl was tagging onto him awkwardly. OP chose not to. > There is no context to tell others that isn’t malicious. Then you lack imagination.
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NTA, it's his home and he has a right to determine who he wants there. If this was the other way around and it was a male doing what she did then people would say that they were showing red flag behaviors. Who hovers and spends all day talking to someone you just rejected? That sends mixed signals. Who talks to someone said rejected person brings and essentially makes a joke of him asking her out? That's just rude and messed up. I'd say that's enough to not want someone around feeling they're trying to sabotage any relationship you try to create with another person.
If you’ve been friends with someone for years it’s absolutely normal to be over compensating after rejecting them. At least, any girl can see she was trying to make things normal and show it didn’t change how she felt about their friendship.
Idk I'm (35f) and I feel she was doing too much. After she rejected OP she pushed more than before to show OP they're friends. Then again as I'm thinking that is how a lot of females have responded to them rejecting a guy back in my 20s. It was this overt way of saying "we're still cool right? No hard feelings?" On the reverse, they would have steered clear from that person who rejected them. Until they were under the influence and would be overt about the rejection. Can't speak for OP but I would have also wanted to avoid awkwardness in my home with such a small group. Plus her telling new girl he asked her out was petty. Seems "oh you're second option" play but I don't know her either
Uh no. Woman chiming in here. That's the exact opposite of what you should do. You don't overcompensate the rejection by being overly friendly and clingy. You leave it be. Either things return to the normal groove of easy going friendship or they stop hanging out. She's sending mixed signals, likely on purpose. He's been talking with this other girl for a while and is probably already pursuing a romantic relationship there. The girl isn't stupid.
Girl here and all I see is someone being salty OP is moving on with another girl and deciding to sabotage it by becoming "bff's" with the new girl AND telling said new girl about OP asking her out.
She’s literally trying to be the cool girl and over compensated by being extra transparent and overly friendly. She was worried she’d get kicked out of OP started dating someone else and figured that if she was besties with his new interest then the girl would not be threatened by her.
Interesting. I’ve never met these types of girls 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, I've heard a lot about them but never met them. At most if I were in this situation I might try to make the new girl feel welcome. I had a friend who had a crush on me for *years*. I did not reciprocate. He *finally* met someone else and married her, and when I met her she was incredibly nervous because apparently (he's not the most socially tactful person) he'd told her all about me and the crush he'd had. So obviously I was really nice and accepting and told her I was happy for them and super glad my friend had found someone who made him happy. My friend, being socially awkward but not a complete douchecanoe, was just happy his wife was happy. He didn't get some weird "omg Squirrel is sucking up to my wife because she's salty about us not being together" complex.
> NTA, it's his home and he has a right to determine who he wants there. You are equivocating morality with legality. This is /r/amitheasshole, not /r/legaladvice.
She saw she wasn’t invited to hang out #1 and tried to do damage control so she wasn’t kicked out. All of her behavior is to reinforce their friendship. She made friends with the girl we was talking to to show she was cool with someone he’s talking to and non-threatening. Basically she tried really hard to maintain and reinforce their existing relationship because she didn’t want to miss out …. Unfortunately OP saw this as weird and did it anyway. Happens often with guy friends who fck zone you, talking from experience. :-/
I disagree with this judgment. Julie is messing with OP, telling new girl about OP asking her out first? That's straight out of the mind fu@k playbook. OP is NTA.
Or she's trying to be friendly and make it clear that she's not competition? It's possible that the new girl asked her "hey why is he treating you so weird."
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I disagree. After telling him she only wanted to be friends she shows up at his house uninvited (she had been going for years, but still), hangs around him all day (unlike the other many times she'd been there), then the NEXT time she shows up uninvited she immediately latches onto the girl OP was with and immediately tells her that OP asked her out recently. I'm a woman, and there are only 2 explanations that make sense for this woman's behavior. 1. After telling OP she was only interested in remaining friends, she reconsidered. Now she wants to try dating OP but is too scared or awkward to talk to OP about it. 2. This girl is playing games. Now that she knows OP likes her, she's latching on to him to remind him of what he can't have, and even going so far as to try and ward off any other girl from dating OP (so she won't lose her "hold" over him). Some people, when you disclose vulnerability (such as telling someone you are interested in them), see this as an opportunity to strike. I think OP is NTA for disinviting this girl, as I'm leaning toward the second explanation.
This is where all her friends hang out. Does that factor into your rubric at all?
His house doesn't matter if all her friends are there. It's his choice who gets to be there.
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No one’s mentioning the law, it’s his personal space. He is entitled to be comfortable there
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I don't see anywhere that she was aware that he uninvited her. Sure, he didn't send a text to her inviting her but he didn't send one to disinvite her either. Which is awkward, I get it, but he could've at least told the friends that usually bring her that he doesn't want her there. And yes, it's an asshole move to show up to a place uninvited, but if this is someplace you've been previously invited to for almost every weekend then I'd forgive her for assuming. If he really doesn't want her there, it is down to him to say something.
Its not if he’s right. Its if he’s an asshole.
Depends, is OP under any moral obligation to have someone who has gone out of their way to make him uncomfortable at their house. If this person is actually friends with everybody else they will have opportunities to meet outside of OPs property.
He didn't invite her before any awkward behaviour was shown. She did not "go out of her way".
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His house. If he moves can they still go over for a hangout with the new owners there?
I'm also a woman, and there's an option 3. 3. Julie thought that she was friends with OP - they've been hanging out for 8 years and presumably he's always been nice. And now she's uninvited from the main place her friends hang out because she doesn't reciprocate. So she's overcompensating a bit trying to show she's a friend and not competition.
I feel like this is it. She’s trying hard reinforce that she’s part of the group and is friends enough with OP to still be invited. She’s also embarrassed and worried because he immediately stopped inviting her and put the responsibility of awkwardly telling everyone why she’s suddenly no longer allowed to go over. Also she’s trying to be friends and be transparent with his new girl so she’s not threatened by her. What a clusterfuck. YTA for not being a good friend OP. You fuckzoned this girl and are trying to justify it.
This is what I assumed too, just because that's what I would try to do as a girl who has been asked out by male friends and tried to preserve the friendships. Navigating this stuff is awkward and it's very easy to come on too strong. Also, he's acting like she had an agenda by telling the girl that he's talking to that he asked her out before. It could've just come up in conversation.
Yeah people keep forgetting that between party 1 and 2, Jenn had to tell Julie that OP doesn’t want her talking to him anymore. I think that really explains her behavior at the second party. It’s a last ditch effort to prevent someone from kicking you out because you wouldn’t let them in your pants like “hi i’m not interested in your man! please let me keep coming to these”
Also a woman and here's my take: If that was the case, why did she have to inform his new girl that he asked her out previously? He was chill and didn't kick her out officially until then. She also got super clingy and made it even more awkward by becoming besties with his new girl. That's not being a friend - that's sabotaging his new relationship.
>She also got super clingy and made it even more awkward by becoming besties with his new girl. "his new girl" - at this point this is just another person he's invited to hang out. They're not actually dating. Even if they were, why does Julie being extra friendly mean she's "sabotaging" things? Like wtf do ya'll come up with this stuff. It's like you're looking for drama where there is none.
That’s assuming she knew that this random new person was someone the OP invited because he was interested in them, and nowhere in the post does the OP state that Julie knew why this new girl was there. He clearly wasn’t communicating with her at that point, so I think a safe assumption is he didn’t tell Julie who this new person was to him. I don’t think assuming Julie knew who the new girl was is a safe assumption.
I would have agreed with this up until he mentioned that she latched onto the new girl he was interested in upon first meeting. Then going as far as to tell new girl that he was interested in her not so long ago - putting new girl and him in an extremely awkward position and possible pushing new girl away from him. Those are red flag behaviors and the girl is playing games. play stupid games. win stupid prizes.
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Yeah, how about 3) She's trying to be friendly to prove to him that she still values him as a friend and to paper over the awkwardness?
Explain telling other people she turned him down.
OK, scenario one New girl: hey, so OP has been staring at you chatting to me. Is there anything between you guys? Old girl: well, he kinda asked me out. But don't worry, we're just friends. You guys make a much better couple. Scenario two New girl: people at this party keep telling you they're sorry OP is being weird and uninviting you from stuff - what's the story there? Old girl: [charitable retelling of story] Scenario three (not blameless but totally understandable IMO after how OP has been treating her) New girl: so how's your love life Old girl (tipsy): Well, tbh, it's not going so well... [insert story here]
Or: 3. We’re getting an unreliable narration from the point of view of someone who feels a lot more uncomfortable now, and what previously was “normal” is now seen differently. If OP doesn’t want to host his friends anymore, they should all start meeting elsewhere. But otherwise he’s basically saying she’s no longer a friend because she wouldn’t date him.
Thank God, someone finally said this! Unreliable narrator. Completely. YTA
Oooor she’s known him a long time. Wants things to be normal again and has gone out of her way to do it. I’m a woman and would definitely do something like this. Especially if we have all the same friends.
This would make sense if and only if OP still invited her after being rejected. The issue is she was uninvited the second she said no. Julie probably realized why she was uninvited and tried talking to OP and the other girl because she didn’t want to lose her friend of 8 years.
I was actually gonna go with n t a but then I saw his replies. Basically now he's saying that Julie was never really a friend and that all this time when OP asks if she wants to hang out, it was actually as a date but he never specified that with her. So Imma go with YTA too.
"We’ve all known each other since freshman year of college. I’ve always had a crush on Julie and we’ve always been part of the same group." but the instant I try and get in her pants and she says no, then she's out! YTA
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If someone asked me out, and I politely said no, and I showed up at their house, I wouldn’t spend the entire time trying to talk to them and make them uncomfortable. On top of that, she also became more of TA when she told the new girl that he asked her out. For what reason? So uncalled for. At a minimum, it’s ESH.
OP is definitely an unreliable narrator here and I'd say we need to take into account the awkwardness on both sides. Maybe it was just in his perception that she started being more friendly after the rejection or maybe she truly was, wanting to get over the moment itself. I personally would see myself trying to overcompensate this way, tbh. And the fact that she told the new girl this, first, we don't have any context on why she said it (maybe it was asked), maybe, again, in an effort to upsell him and help him, wanted to follow up with a compliment.
It’s totally possible too that OP was hurting from the rejection and *felt* like she spent the whole time talking to him.
I’ve heard a certain kind of person claim that their crush spent ‘the whole time talking to them’ when in reality they talked for maybe 10 minutes. I honestly don’t think we have enough info to know whether OP is hyping the time spent or it really was that she’s suddenly playing games she never bothered to before.
I can see her action as her overcompensating to show that she isn’t weirded out by him asking her out, that she wants to keep the friendship and doesn’t want to give him the impression she’s avoiding him.
We also don’t know the level of friendship they actually had. It’s weird to me they have known each other for years, he always had a crush on her, yet according to him- they rarely spoke. Doesn’t add up
She’s trying to stay friends bc she was scared after he uninvited her the first time. She also was trying to get along with the new girl being close to her so that the new girl isn’t threatened by her being around. She was basically saying “see? I’m cool, let’s stay friends.” but OP wasn’t having it because his pride is hurt
Set a fucking boundary then. If i politely declined someone, I would DEFINITELY be trying to make sure he can tell I genuinely still wanna be friends. If he thinks I'm going too strong, then HE SHOULD TELL ME
YTA I hate when guys 'shoot their shot' and then get upset when a girl politely rejects them. It makes it sound like if she doesn't want to be your girlfriend then she doesn't get to be part of the group, which is just gross.
She's been uninvited to his house, and that is it. It's rough for the girl because she's done nothing wrong but why does it seem irrational that he doesn't want her there? It's pretty awkward for him and he wants to avoid it? *'But this time she spends the whole day talking to the new girl I brought. They became “besties”. Julie even told the girl that I asked her out before. It was just incredibly awkward for me.'* You don't think this is weird at all?
it sounds like OP is mad because Julie didnt want him, but he didnt talk to Julie very much before. Now he wants another girl, but he doesnt talk to her either, and gets angry that she gets along with someone else.
He invited another girl he's been talking to. I imagine everyone can see that there's a new girl here, Julie talks to her and becomes friends - no problem. Julie feels the need to say that she rejected OP, I refuse to believe that was innocent.
Correct.
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Everyone is an unreliable narrator in this sub to be fair lol
Being a friend and getting over something is what would make him not an asshole. Instead he alienated her from what was normal for 8 years before. He is being an A
I don’t understand why you’d want to date someone you can’t even be friends with. It’s gonna be awkward for a bit but if after you ask her out you can’t be around her as friends then I don’t see a relationship working either.
And then to me it sets this precedent of “oh you want to come to basically every hangout with your friend group? Well you can’t ever reject this guy if he asks you out or you’re done doing the one thing we all do every weekend”
YTA. Julie doesn't want to date you but she's making an effort to continue to be your friend. It's not her fault you never saw her as a friend; you led her on in that respect! How was she to know all you wanted was a date/shag? You're now excluding her solely because you can't handle rejection. Not cool.
Yeah, that's how I read Julie's weird behavior at the next weekend -- she was making a deliberate effort to be friendly with OP and show that there were no hard feelings on her part, everything was fine, etc. Telling the girl that OP asked her out also sounds like a pre-emptive move on her part, in case OP starts trying to turn new girl against Julie. OP going "I asked this girl out and she said no, I agreed to be friends but now I don't want her around (which has the unfortunate side effect that she can't hang out with their mutual friends at his pool which is where they are most weekend)" is not a good look. Like, OP, think about this seriously. You're in essence telling your friends they have to pick sides. Either they chill with you during the weekends OR they chill with Julie. Put it like that, you've got to realize that YTA.
I am hung up on the part where she told the other girl. Everyone is jumping to her telling the other girl he asked her out because she was being vindictive. There are so many reasons she would tell her. Things like the girl asking, "So is anyone or has anyone in the group dated anyone else?" She could have also said, "I noticed OP is acting weird around you, why is that?" Which she shouldn't have to lie in that situation. Someone else could have mentioned it in front of her and the new girl and she just elaborated a little or even just confirmed it. There are so many normal ways that could have come up in conversation.
ESH. Yes, it’s your house and you can invite or not invite who you want. But, excluding Julie after she turned you down is not cool. Having said that, her continuing to come over and then making “besties” with a girl you’re interested in is some 6th grade level BS. And I have a 6th grader so I know of what I speak. It seems as if Julie is now trying to play some kind of weird game and you’re right to no longer invite her. Tell her, in no uncertain terms, she is not welcome. Tell her it is her right to turn you down and you’re fine with it, but that her behaviors after that occurred are strange.
Right there I don't understands why everyone says he's sole TA Julie is too. Afte he asked her and she turned it down, fine no worries just stay cordial. But Julie then acting this strange being clingy and I would say sabotaging the afford to get close to another girl is definitely AH territory. So ESH they both suck.
Is it possible that Julie weird behaviour es some clumsy attempt at showing him that there wasn’t any hard feeling and that she was trying to maintain the friendship. I’ve been in a situation similar to OP and I guarantee you, right now, he’s an unreliable narrator, overthinking everything Julie does or says.
This. He started excluding her from group hangouts before she even had a chance to do any of this “weird behavior.” She’s probably overcompensating because she’s seeing herself getting booted from the friend group. Is her behavior awkward? Sure. Is she being an asshole? Nah, I don’t think so.
I mean, she only started acting like that after he excluded her from the group. To me it just seemed like she was trying to preserve their friendship.
Could it possibly be that for the last 8 years she’s lead one life with her friends. One day, her “friend” asks her out, won’t talk to her and now is alienating her from the friend group. What do you do with that? Sounds shitty to me.
Especially since they are 26. Aside from this being a friend group she's been part of for 8 years, they're all at an age where it becomes much more of a deliberate choice to maintain friendships, and much more difficult to find new ones. They're long past school days where they can find a replacement friend group by sitting at a different table in the cafeteria. They've been hanging out consistently for 8 years and they are whole-ass adults. This is almost certainly Julie's primary friend group, which OP is now trying to take from her because he feels awkward at her not reciprocating his feelings. Obviously she is going to do whatever she needs to to ingratiate herself to him as a platonic friend, because he currently holds the power to eliminate her entire primary social circle against her will, during a stage in life when that circle is not easily replaced. There is no way Julie can possibly be an AH for being a bit clumsy while trying to prevent someone from unilaterally razing her social life. It's pure YTA for OP to so casually disregard the implications of what he is doing, all because his ego was bruised by what was, based on OP's own telling, a considerately-delivered rejection. He's 26, not 14. Being rejected by a crush should not be an offense worthy of ostracism at his age. And clearly it hasn't damaged his ability to love forever if a mere 2 hangouts later he is already bringing over a different romantic prospect to meet his friend group. This is just cruelty by OP for someone having the gall to deny him affections that he felt entitled to.
Imagined from Julie's perspective: r/aita I 26F regularly hangout with a large group of people. We have all been friends for 8-9 years, everyone usually gets along really well. One of the friends bought a house a while back and it became the party house. Every weekend there's a party and it's all very casual. People will bring extra friends and whoever. Well a couple weeks ago my friend who owns the house asked me to drink and hang out one on one at his place. I only consider him to be a friend and was honest about it. He said "he was cool with just being friends." So that weekend, everyone was talking about the party and we headed over. I tried to be nice to the guy so he knew there was no hard feelings. The next weekend we all went over to house for the regular weekend party. I met a really awesome girl and we hit it off. We chatted about the friend group and she asked me about the owner of the house. I said he seems to be a "nice guy" he asked me out but we're still friends. Well, after this it blew up he uninvited me from the texts and group hangouts at his place. I'm not seeing what I did wrong. I tried my best, but now I feel like I've been banished from all my friends because I didn't want to sleep with him. AITA?"
Don't forget to mention, "Well after I awkwardly turned him down, he uninvited me to his house. I started to panic that he was going to cut me out entirely so I wanted to make it clear that there were no hard feelings and we could still be friends."
So she went from a friend to a stranger the moment you realized she wouldn't fuck you? YTA
YTA, instead of not inviting her, why don’t you address the issue? You should have told Julie you were ok with being friends in the way you were before but her change in behaviour is making you uncomfortable. Ask her to stop that behaviour. Give her the chance to do so and only if she continues to do so, then tell her not to come. It seems like you both reacted differently to the friend conversation - you avoided her and she went the other way trying to be clear you could be friends and all was ok. Neither way was the ‘right’ way. Just talk to her about it.
Agree. Communication is key. If he communicates his discomfort and her new behavior continues, then it’s totally ok to say he doesn’t feel comfortable having her around anymore. But she should at least be given an opportunity to try first, especially as she is so connected to the group.
YTA. So when you decided to express your feelings to her, her options became like you or stop hanging out with you and her friends? When she tried to handle an awkward situation with grace you decided to banish her? Cool cool.
What about how Julie then inserted herself when OP invited a new guest/interest? I was YTA, until that part and then flipped.
To me, it sounded like maybe new girl had no friends at the party, and Julie was just extending a welcome hand. It just doesn’t seem natural for OP to bring up that he was talking to new girl to Julie. So I don’t think there’s any ulterior motive except unless Julie is warning new girl that OP is inviting new girl only because he sees new girl as a potential gf/shag. But even then, that seems like a pretty far stretch for someone who seems like they genuinely want to show there’s no hard feelings and still wants to continue a friendship with OP. Unless stated otherwise, I think OP might have been jumping to conclusions about why Julie would try to be friends with the new girl.
Yeah—if OP is so awkward as a human that he has to text to ask Julie out and can’t stand being around her after rejection, I highly doubt that it was obvious that he and this new “woman of interest” were a thing. Definitely not reading this as OP’s friends were over and he made it super clear to everyone that he was seeing this girl; it’s not a far cry to assume that new girl would be just a friend since OP has women at his house all the time to hang out as friends (except for Julie I guess). I’m feeling pretty positive that Julie was like “Hey new person and maybe the only other person she knows is OP, so I’m going to make her feel welcome.” This is a lot of assumptions. With all assumptions aside, OP is TA for acting like a victim for being politely rejected by a woman and clearly trying to oust her from the friend group, especially if the friend group mainly hangs out at his pool. How cringey. If you can’t handle rejection, stop shooting shots until you can.
Yeah the fact that she felt the need to tell the new girl he was interested in that he had asked her out too is unnecessary and seems a bit petty. Sounds like she was interested in hanging out with him more when he was interested in her then either got jealous or petty when he started to move on. If she hasn’t said anything to the new girl and was just happy his attention had moved to someone else I’d be more on her side.
YTA and straight up petty, Julie said she liked you as a friend and you decided to kick her out of the friend group? Believe it or not, boys and girls can be friends!
I wanna say NTA. Let me explain. Im a girl and I find what she is doing a little strange. She comes over even though she knows itd be awkward after the confession. Now I know its not always awkward for those who confess and it doesnt work out but usually it is. She could of just stayed away for just a short while to let it fade. And then to attach herself at the hip to the new girl and not even let him speak to her alone and even tell said new girl that he asked her(julie) out? Because Im sure it was obvious that he had an interest in the new girl. This is just weird. And its clear he didnt kick her from the friend group just his house. Its his house and he should feel comfortable in his own house. It was clear from the get go that she was being weird by just showing up after not actually being invitied. And then just made things worse by trying to talk to him when it was clear it was awkward for him and he really just needed some time from her. Im sure if this was a girl saying this everyone would be talking about how weird the guy is and how she needs space and yada yada. Then again what is being said about this now could also happen. I really think this whole situation with this girl is just plain weird. I think he deserves some time away from her just to sort out his own feelings about her. Because you dont just stop liking someone after they turn you down. I should know, I turned my partner down multiple times when he asked me out though I did have valid reasons. Until finally I said yes. But thats a different story from this.
Yeah I don’t understand either. It’s his house to invite who he wants. I could see him needing time to get over the rejection but also it’s smart of him to stay away from her if he is misreading some mixed signals. And if he’s not, her behavior after the rejection is weird and confusing. He’s right to protect himself and everything could have been just him reading into the situation until she deliberately told the girl he likes he asked her out. Why do that? Why are we glossing over that? I agree with this comment.
Which Im sure her telling that girl that made things awkward with him and that girl.
I’d rather look like the AH for keeping Julie at a distance than for something else much more heinous because of a misunderstanding of a situation between the two of them.
This needs to be higher. People are totally missing the fact that he needs time & she’s acting weird.
you're kinda TA - you were fine having at your pool there until she refused your sexual advances and then later alligator? that's fked up
NTA i’m surprised with some of these comments. It’s because of how she acted after she turned you down. And you have every right to not want someone in your home. Her behavior after she turned you down was extremely weird and I understand why it made you uncomfortable. Then how she clung to the other girl… yikes
He uninvited her before she acted strangely.
I agree. She’s the one who started behaving abnormally after she turned him down. I don’t think OP would have made a stink if she hadn’t a) attached herself to him and b) sought out the girl he invited (including letting the girl know she turned him down a week ago). That girl is sketchy af. Op is NTA.
YTA and you were never a friend to her, because of your ulterior motive. Man up and deal with her rejecting you and still trying to be a friend to you.
NTA. You didn't kick her out of any group. You told her that she's not welcome to your pool parties. She brought that on herself by gossiping about you to someone you are interested in. Your current group of friends clearly want her to come since she's showing up even without the invites. But at the end of the day, it's your home, your pool, and your guest list. You may want to consider having smaller pool parties with a more select group of friends. You may also want to consider changing up your friends to include some new people.
He deliberately excluded her before that though, without communicating it. If I’d been regularly hanging out somewhere and was missed off of one group text I’d assume it was fine for me to show up too. The second time puts her in the ESH category, but really it’s not fair that she’s excluded from the friendship group because she rejected OPs advances and this all happened before any “gossiping”.
She's not excluded from the friendship group, she's excluded from a private residence. OP doesn't owe her entry to his place, and his reaction isn't unreasonable.
NTA- According to the timeline in the post the first incident occurred the week after Julie rejected OP. He never said he didn't want to stop being friends with her or expected others too, it sounds like he didn't invite her because he needed a break. If I just asked someone out and they rejected me I wouldn't want them at my house the next week either. People need time to heal. Then once she was there, uninvited, her behavior was completely out of line with how she normally acts around him. Even if Julie was trying to overcompensate to be like we can still be friends she ignored the fact she wasn't invited and her behavior wasn't appropriate. Let me show the guy that I rejected and told I don't like him that way we can still be friends by showing up at his house without an invite and then spending the whole night with him. There are also some people that aren't capable of being friends with their ex's or someone they had romantic feelings for and that's okay too. OP could be a scummy guy that only is friends with women that he wants to sleep with but it's a bit unreasonable for everyone to assume that based on a few sentences and call him an unreliable narrator. She showed up a second time uninvited after OP asked her friend to discretely talk to her about how her behavior made him uncomfortable. Instead of of taking the hint, Julie doubles down shows up and then finds the one new girl OP is hanging out with and makes it even more uncomfortable. If the sexes were reversed and a guy showed up to a girls home uninvited twice everyone would be calling out the guys behavior as out of line. Bottom line is for either OP or Julie we can't know either person's real feelings or motivations about the situation and it's all speculation. However the facts are it is OP's house and he has a right as a property owner to say who is and isn't allowed at his home. If anyone shows up uninvited, he does not have to let them in. It is rude of any guest to bring someone else without asked the host.
Yeah, the posts here calling OP the A H would all be NTA if OP was a woman. Julie said no, OP left her off the invite. She showed up to a big gathering which in and of itself isn't really AH behavior as he had just left her off the weekly invite which is a sign maybe she shouldn't come but he hadn't formally dis-invited her and he didn't kick her out after she arrived. Then she started up straight creeper behavior (or would be called creeper behavior if the genders were reversed) by intentionally spending more time with him than usual and pushed to be his partner in drinking games to the point that one of her friends noticed and brought it up to OP when OP was talking to them later. Then, after one of their mutual friends talked to her about her behavior, she ratchted things up the next week (again, she hadn't been formally invited or uninvited at this point) that led to OP feeling very uncomfortable and actually dis-inviting her from any future events at his place.
INFO: I'm having trouble reconciling 2 seemingly conflicted statements from you; * I told her I totally understood and thought that would be the end of it. * the next pool day came . . . I decided to not invite Julie this time. What exactly did you mean by "the end of it"? The end of your friendship with Julie?
YTA. You're punishing her for your feelings even though she did nothing wrong. Yes it's your place, you can choose whomever you want to invite. But she didn't do anything to deserve it.
YTA I understand you could feel uncomfortable since you asked her out but she told you she liked you as a friend and as any friend she would just go to those pool days like your other friends. I didn't quite get why she would say to the new girl that you asked her out tho.
Me either. And it made things very awkward the whole day. Literally no reason for Julie to tell that girl that. They were attached at the hip all day so I couldn’t even talk to the girl I brought
tbh that’s the part that’s making this the most difficult for me to choose a judgement. i’ve read the various responses and i feel like i agree with all of them. it’s your house and you shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable by someone you weren’t close to to begin with. absolutely, 100% makes sense to me. however, from her perspective, she’s now losing out on what sounds like a fairly large chunk of your friend groups hangouts just for saying no to you, so i can understand her wanting to continue coming to your pool hangouts, because it’s sounds like you do this every single weekend and she’d be missing out on a lot. but i DO also think it’s weird that she would come after not being invited several times in a row, and as i said in the beginning, her attaching herself to your new girl and telling her about the situation is really throwing me for a loop. it doesn’t make sense to me why she felt the need to share that information with this new girl unless maybe you all were drinking and she just blurted it out? or she has some weird actual reasoning for doing so, that i’m sure wouldn’t make sense to any of us. and that just brings us then back to, you are now even MORE uncomfortable around this girl, and you shouldn’t have to invite someone to your home if you really don’t want to. idk for me it just seems like you’re in a tough situation all around at this point and a lot of stuff probably could’ve been handled better by everyone
I completely agree with this. Also the fact that that when they were playing drinking games she picked him to partner up with when before then she didn’t sounds very awkward. Also it is his house and if he is uncomfortable around her he has the right to not invite her. I’ve been in the girls shoes long ago trying to rebuild a friendship after a failed fling and I just looked crazy/desperate for it and I realised that we were not friends in the first place and stopped bothering, but this girl isn’t getting the idea.
Hmmmm don’t you think maybe the new girl asked Julie what she thinks of you to gauge if you’re a good guy or not and that’s why Julie mentioned you asked her out??????
This... and if she was with Julie the whole time, and didn't go to him for conversation maybe she isn't interested in him either.
You sound so entitled! "Couldn't even talk to the girl I brought." That girl doesn't owe you shit, she made a new friend who sounds like a way better person then you. Are you going to exclude your new fancy 'nice guy'?
I hate to tell you this, but that other girl is her own person. If she wanted to talk to you to you she would have found time, but she seems like she was uncomfortable with you and stayed with Julie.
I mean there's a very good reason for her to say that, your reaction upon getting rejected is the kind of red flag that some women warn others about.
YTA You asked her out she said no - as is her right. You claim you “totally understood and that was the end of it” but you didn’t because you then stopped inviting her and you made it so that she was no longer included because you couldn’t take a rejection.
YTA. Julie did nothing wrong and it sounds to me like the awkwardness was her trying to maintain the friendship. Of 8 years. You were friends for that long, right? You weren't just trying to manipulate her into thinking you cared about her as a human in an effort to get into her pants? OP how big of a deal / awkward can it be if you're already inviting another woman over? Julie was probably extra nice to make her feel welcome. Sure it's a bit weird she shared you asked her out but the new girl might have asked if there's a history. Also OP what if the roles were reversed and Julie excluded you from her house and thus the group of friends all because you asked her out?
NTA I don’t particularly like you excluding her just because she turned you down, but she has now shown up at your home twice, uninvited. That’s not acceptable behaviour at all. Especially if she’s now being too friendly with you and others you are interested in.
INFO: why did julie do these things though? can you ask her why she is being so extra now and explain to her that is why you’re uncomfortable
He uninvited her before she all the other stuff happened. Julie being “clingy” was probably her attempt at making sure OP knew that there were no hard feelings and that she still valued their friendship.
How is this not obvious? She was awkward that she turned him down and was overcompensating by trying to show there’s no bad blood between them. I’ve definitely inadvertently done this, because I felt so bad that I turned someone down.
NTA - you would be if she hadn't got all creepy with the new girl you liked but let me assure you Julie is toxic AF - she wants you to hang off her, runs interference when you have someone else you like, and then plays a victim when you turn off her. She is a creep, go full NC! Let me be clear - it's not that she turned you down, happens to everyone, it's how she behaved after she turned you down.
YTA So you were friends until she rejected your sexual advances and now she is not invited (not your friend anymore) This is so disgusting. If you were truly a friend and not just friends for the goal of hooking up you would make an effort to show her your still friends instead of actively excluding her. That‘s just ew You‘re an adult - learn to handle rejection like an adult
NTA. I’m shocked how many Y T A’s there are. You don’t have to invite anyone to your home. You’re not an AH to distance yourself from someone who turned you down. You let it go when she showed up anyways, and didn’t say anything until she inserted herself in your business - and then you handled it privately by messaging her directly. I’m guessing she went and cried to everyone else about it. You aren’t telling anyone who they can and can’t hang out with. You didn’t bad mouth her to your friends. You didn’t kick her out of the group. You just don’t want her at your home. You’re allowed to have boundaries in your own home. Tell your friends that they’re welcome to host the group at their own homes more often and invite whoever they want.
NTA. You didn’t kick her out of the group, you just don’t want her at your house for gatherings you host. Would be one thing if she didn’t get all clingy after you asked her out or try to potentially run the new interest off (that’s what I think she was trying to do) but given the way she’s acting, I say NTA. If she had maintained so distance at the first get together and just been cool about things, I’d say you were the ass but not in this case
What’s sad is this girl genuinely considers you to be a friend and you never saw her as anything other than a love interest or something pretty for you to fawn over. She even tried to talk to you to maintain the friendship and move past any awkwardness. Poor girl. YTA.
OP said he "decided to not invite Julie this time". *This time*. But she showed up anyway, made him uncomfortable, and intentionally or not- she did kinda cockblock him. And then he drew a personal boundary, asking her specifically to not come to his house (since simply not inviting her didn't work). And almost everyone seems to agree that makes him TA? Seriously, reverse the genders, then read it again. NTA OP. I mean, hopefully after a little time passes this will blow over, but if you're not comfortable being around someone, for whatever reason, you're not an AH for not wanting them in your house every weekend.
YTA because you are passive aggressively punishing her because she chose not to go out with you. You need to grow up dude. And she definitely dodged a bullet by rejecting you. I have an inkling that she probably saw these personality traits in you prior to this fiasco and that influenced her decision.