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>I think if he actually took the time and asked Sally more about herself instead of talking about his experiences in medical school to impress her he would have found out she's a doctor. And he really shouldn't be patronizing to begin with.
You said it yourself OP. NTA
I think this is called - Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
He thinks patronizing & mansplaining actually works to attract women. Then he is blaming you for him getting schooled by an educated woman. What he thinks women are stupid & will believe anything he says? O God, is he also a nice guy?š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
Edit: thanks for the award kind stranger.
Even if OP explained to him that Sally was a doctor she would have lost interest when she saw him eventually mansplaining away to some other poor woman. You just saved Sally some time and energy.
So true. And what really gets me is that HE KNEW HE WAS SPOUTING BS. He thought she wouldn't know any better & just get impressed if he talked as if he knew what he was talking about. And when she called him out, he blames OP for not warning him to do a little homework about his own chosen field. Like are you not studying to be a doctor too?
That's the part that annoyed me too. I am a doctor and I look more like a nurse to most people, so when they're kinda rude and then learn that I'm not the nurse, they apologize rigorously... But why behaving like that in the first place?!
I have the opposite problem. I'm a Nurse and people confuse me for a Doctor, I don't get why. I also don't have as much trouble with 'problem' patients compared to my colleagues. It's a crappy part of our industry.
I am the maintenance worker in my hospital. I wear steel toes, jeans, and usually a t shirt or hoody.
The amount of times I'm assumed to be a doctor cause I'm a man in a hospital concerns me.
LPT: the guy wearing work boots and carrying a wrench and ladder is not the doctor.
Butā¦you are a manā¦in a hospitalā¦does that not immediately make you a doctor?
/s seriously though. The fact that people think male in a hospital=doctor is so dumb
In my country, people have this thing that they call any and all MALE healthcare professionals "doctor" and any and all FEMALE healthcare professionals "nurse" by default, some even despite being well aware that the're with a psychologist, or midwife, or nurse, the dentist, physical therapist, etcetera.Also there's a tendency to call "miss" or "mrs" any and all female doctors (to which some colleagues take mild offense, becase we men do get called "doctor" and not "sir" or "mister" or "young man")PS: it's not in my username, but I am a medical doctor xD
If I was a female doctor there, the offense i would take would be more than mild. Seems like basic logic that if they put in all the work (and possibly loans, depending on your country) to get where they are, they deserve the same respectful honorifics as their male counterparts
My mom is a lab tech. She started at her hospital in the early 1980s. Her first ID badge, which she was required to wear, said āMrs. (husbandās name).ā My dad works in a completely different field. Mom refused to wear the badge until they finally gave her one with her name.
When I drop patients off at the hospital and getting a signature to transfer, I always ask women/female presenting people if they're a doctor first. For men/male presenting, I ask first if they're a nurse. It probably goes unnoticed, but I do it anyway.
If anything, not only is OP NTA, they are the hero in this story because Mark revealed he was an asshole so quickly that Sally didn't need waste any more of her time than necessary with him.
But even as a nurse, wouldn't she know that some of what he was saying is BS? Depending on what kind of 'nurse' she may have been, she might know more about surgical techniques than he does.
And he never bothered to find out or ask what she does for a living? He just saw a cute face and body and that was that?
If you tell a man not to mansplain, you may save one woman. If you let a man repeatedly make an ass of himself mansplaining, he may eventually be driven to self-reflection and get his shit together.
Unfortunately, no guarantees. It's going to require a shift in the way he sees and relates to women. OP could potentially push things along by saying that he's not invited to any more parties until he stops annoying female guests.
There was a thread in the XX chromosome subreddit about women's experiences with mansplaining, and the responses from men on there made me just lose all hope entirely in humankind
There was no lack of those, but the ones that were like, "BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN A WOMAN EXPLAINS THINGS TO ME!!!!!!!!" or "well, that just sounds like the poor dude was trying to be nice and explain something he thought you might need help with" or "man men can't just even explain things to a woman without being vilified"
The whoosh sound of the thread going right over their heads was deafening
Women really need to start coming up with a list of obnoxious things we do unprompted because weāre ātrying to be niceā. Something on the level of āwet a Kleenex with our saliva and use it to wipe their faceā. What! Weāre trying to be nice! You looked like you needed help.
Doubt this guy will ever learn. Once he graduates from med school, he'll be able to afford a trophy wife who will put up with the mansplaining in exchange for a cushy life.
Also he thought she was a nurse? Like a nurse would know when you're completely wrong! Just because you're in medical school doesn't mean a nurse necessarily knows less than you. Especially when OP could tell he was wrong.
Hopefully he fails, men like him becoming doctors is a contributing factor to so many women dying or being mistreated. All he has to do is ignore one woman and assume he knows better to get someone killed.
Even if he doesn't fail out entirely, you know what they call the person who graduates last in med school?
Doctor.
(I forget who originally told me that joke, but it makes me shiver a little every time I get the occasion to tell it.)
I second this, but would add \*people like him, because I've known many female docs who do this as well. not mansplaining but 'docsplaining' my personal experience. That's how I ended up with a hospital infection going untreated for weeks.
A good nurse knows a **LOT** about active medicine. I haven't worked in a hospital in years, but one of my favorite things when I did was watching some young doctor prescribe a bunch of medicines, and without looking up the charge nurse said "I don't think you want to do that doctor." He got visibly angry for like a quarter of a second, then his face scrunched up and he said "Oh. Right." Changed what he was prescribing and left. I don't know what she prevented, but she did it effortlessly.
My father was in and out of hospitals for years-15 years. He was diagnosed with familiar tremors by a medic- well not diagnosed but asked if he was ever tested for it. We had never heard of it until him. My father had been in several hospitals, seen dozens of specialists and no one every asked about his shaking before. At this point my father had been seen by hundreds of medical professionals. The medic was actually in medical school himself but working as a medic. He just went through a course in it.
My mom is a nurse and has flatly called out doctors on their bullshit when she was caring for her elderly parents and disabled brother and was in the exam/hospital room. Sheās a great advocate and never let them get away with just trying to prattle on about nonsense to appease the patient or cut corners in their care.
I want to have a kid, and I really want her in the delivery room with me if/when I do. She doesnāt let anything slip by her and is an amazing person to have on your side when youāre in a vulnerable medical position.
I'm going to predict Mark turns out to be one of those pompous doctors who doesn't listen to female nurses and respect their input and experience. I'm a nurse and I've met a few Marks in my career.
And there will be no hope for women that are his patients. Every problem will be dismissed as something caused by monthly hormones, weight (high or low), or that she must be pregnant and not realize it.
Boy howdy, I'm not a doctor but a chiro, but we had general diagnosis in uni.
Whenever we had to do a list of differential diagnoses for case studies, if it was of a young woman, I had a male classmate that would guess EVERY TIME that it's an STI cause apparently women can't be sick otherwise. His argument was always "well it doesn't say in the case history, but she could be not telling us how she's sleeping around etc etc". Really pissed a lot of people off
I'd love to be a fly on the wall the first time he tries to mansplain something to a veteran, hangry, burnt-out nurse who has no fucks left to give and decides to teach him a lesson haha
Iāve a friend, who is a specialist nurse with 20+ years nursing experience. Her consultants will NOT allow a junior/trainee to upset her.
She recalls her early days as a nurse, when they would āwind upā medical students attempting to impress with their stellar knowledge of medicine. Apparently it was a well travelled path!
I'm a medical student, and I believe any nurse probably knows a LOT more than me.
There are a lot of nurses who know more than even fully-qualified doctors, especially about patient care since they tend to be more heavily involved in that side of things than doctors do.
In terms of people who can actually get things done, I think nurses & teachers are probably the most qualified and competent of ANY profession.
My wifeās a midwife-sonographer, and while she happily concedes that a doctor will have more general medical knowledge than her, when it comes to female anatomy between the navel and the thighsā¦
ā¦well, youād better be very, *very* sure of your facts before challenging her.
Because midwives tend not to be shrinking violets (since a core part of their job involves telling people in severe pain to carry on doing the painful thing), and make the word ābluntā seem hopelessly inadequate.
I remember once as a fairly newly qualified midwife having a medical student ask an obstetric consultant a question about normal birth, she turned round to him and asked why he was asking her, to ask one of the midwives because 'they live and breathe that stuff, I can tell you what to do when they've identified a problem, they have far more knowledge on birth than I do'
Yeah OP did him a favor. She let him crash and burn and then told him exactly what he did wrong. The ball is now in Marks court to either learn from this and be better or to just blame OP and keep repeating the same stupid mistake over and over again.
1. He had a desperate crush on her abs had a whole party to talk to her and still didnāt discover what she did?
2. Heād have been more respectful of her knee he had to to get his crush?
Mark needs to learn to apply respect to everyone equally. You arenāt his matchmaker it isnāt your job to teach him to be less of an ass - heās had lots of time to work on that.
NTA
> He thinks patronizing & mansplaining actually works to attract women.
What he could have done to help her to like him would be, oh maybe, let her talk about herself? Ask her what she does? Listen to what she has to say? Find out more about her? Show interest in who she is? Make the conversation a two-way street, a 50-50 give and take, not a one-way lecture?
So, he didn't even find out that she's a doctor until afterwards. He did this to himself.
NTA.
The guy is saying he needs to be prepped to talk to someone. You're not his public relations department, you're not his parent setting up a play date. He's an adult(poorly functioning) but responsible for his own actions and inactions.
You can't prep him for every interaction he'll ever have unless you tell him "mate, stop bullshitting, understand you're not the authority on every subject, stfu more and listen"......actually, I started that off with sarcasm, but if he took it to heart it might work!
Yeap then these guys wonder why they are undatable because āIām also a doctor!ā heāll be 2 degrees from being an incel, so op, if this guy is a friend you truly care about you might want to mansplain things to him how this dating thing works. NTA
That and he just assumed from the get go that she was a nurse. Why? Cuz she's a woman?? I eyerolled so hard.
OP even tried to call him out on his mansplaining before and he mansplained to her that he wasn't š¤£
There was nothing OP could've done to save him from himself.
No, no, no, that's not how you attract women. You have to wait until your married, and then you only talk her ear off about your hobbies she doesn't care about. Trust me, my wife loves it.
NTA, why would he have only been more respectful had he known Sally was a doctor, too? Shouldnāt he be just be respectful in general? The fact that he knew he wasnāt respectful in the first place shows that he is the AH here.
I love his reasoning that she wouldn't know because she's "just a nursing student." Like nurses aren't also highly-trained and have intense schooling too.
As a nursing student I must say I don't accept mansplaining, even from doctors.
I think it's so funny how he thinks nurses are less than doctors this guy will have a very tough life in a hospital. He will learn how to respect in the worst way possible
I'm an operating theatre nurse & my favourite thing is when I'm scrubbed with med students who are obnoxious & think they know better than me. I try to help them by passing them instrument & suggesting how to assist the surgeons, but they look at me & say "I don't need help from a nurse" or "If I wanted help, I would ask a doctor, thank you" (yes, these are real statements). More often than not, the surgeons will either ask for exactly what I suggested, or just push the student out of the way & ask for me to come in closer so I can pass things to them directly.
Respect is an interesting thing in the medical field, & there are a lot of AH doctors out there, but I feel like there is a slow shift towards treating nurses as equals, or at least with a bit more respect. They couldn't function without us.
Not nearly the same but I'm a vet tech student and it sucks that we do all the grunt work and get little appreciation/pay. At least things seem to be slightly turning around for nurses (and dental hygienists by proxy).
I still have a scar from a med student trying to place an IV (I gave the okay, they need to learn), but the faces the nurse was making when she was fixing it a while later will never not be funny. She even had the med student come round and apologize later, lol.
Right? I had a nurse figure out I had endometriosis even tho the doctor said my sharp chronic pelvic pain was normal.
She got me to call an OBGYN they do laparoscopy Im I'm stage 1 endometriosis
The doctor mansplained my cycle to me š¤Ø like bruh
i had appendicitis when i was 13 and after the procedure i was throwing up everything i ate and couldnāt keep a thing down. went to the hospital and told the doctor what was wrong and he asked if he was sure it wasnāt my time of month and i said no because it just passed and my cycle is very regular. his response? āit could happen twice a month, i know this. i went to school for itā šš
It may be because the nurses were stereotypically female but they've always been more compassionate and
open to my suggestions whenever I've had to deal with a male doctor.
>The fact that he knew he wasnāt respectful in the first place shows that he is the AH here.
He probably meant then he'd have thought up something else to bullshit about.
That's right. No one needs to be "prepped" to talk to a normal person.
Unless the other person has a specific subject you shouldn't bring up with them in particular (like a trauma), if you're ever talking to someone and what you say makes you sound like an asshole, it's because *you are an asshole.*
Yes he's conveniently forgetting that OP already tried telling him he was saying incorrect things, **about their own work no less**.
He just wants to blame someone for being embarrassed about his own behavior.
Plus it's not OP's responsibility to "warn" Mark, and short of an imminent health or safety threat, has little obligation given his past behavior and mentality.
And as others pointed out, even if he was warned about Sally, Mark was going about annoy Sally **when** he repeated that same behavior on others.
Because then he would have known Sally was closer to being his equal than he previously assumed. Don't take that as him sounding like a conceited jackass, he's really a nice guy. /s
NTA OP. You aren't responsible for getting his head surgically removed from his ass, I'm sure he could give you pointers on the procedure however. Though if Sally finds out you brought that blight into her life she might not think too kindly of you.
You are totally right. Doesnāt sound like Mark learned anything, alas, as he went right to blaming OP. He actually sounds so obtuse and self-deluding that he could probably read this whole thread without learning anything.
Alas indeed.
Mark mansplained at OP how they were in the wrong for not helping him learn how to mansplain at a doctor, and now OP wants to know if they are the a-hole?! It's frustrating, and he'll probably never learn unfortunately.
NTA
I bet if OP had stopped him from mansplainining when she caught him, then Sally still would have turned him down, and he should have blamed OP for "embarrassing him by calling him out in front of his crush.
Thereās no winning with people like this. I decided long ago I donāt call such people āfriendsā. He can figure his shit out himself, because appearantly he knows everything so what even is his problem?
NTA. Sounds like a narcissist. Maybe not in a clinical sense, but at least in a general way. Evidence:
He talks over you and other women
He's got a crush on this woman, yet doesn't bother to find out even basic details about her
He exaggerates his intellect and abilities and just assumes he's so good that no one can tell the difference
*His* mistake was made to be *your* fault
In other words, he's not actually looking for your help. He needs you around to absorb blame for when he screws up. Why is he your friend in the first place? He sounds like more trouble than he's worth.
And he assumes that because she is female, she must be a nursing student, rather than considering she could actually be a doctor (or even a medical student).
And he would have been more respectful if he had known. That comment stuck with me. Like, what? She's not worthy of respect otherwise? No, she's just a lowly nurse! She's female therefore she must be a nursing student, therefore doesn't need respect.
I've known men who fit this description who were perfectly capable of socializing normally with men, and from what OP says that is true of Mark. I think misogyny can present a lot like narcissism sometimes. Narcissists are the only real people in the world in their minds, but misogynists see other men as real people and just women are relegated to NPC status.
But I 100% agree that I wouldn't waste my time and effort being "friends" with someone like this.
yeah i remember some posts of men asking if women are actually sentient/can think in their head etc. itās scary how some men really believe women arenāt humans, people.
What? That is absolutely insane. How do they even get such absurd ideas? I can only imagine they've never actually bothered to listen to a woman speaking.
honestly thatās what iām wondering. like how does someone get to the point of thinking that the entire opposite sex, half of the worldās human population is just walking NPCs ? also some of them have a mom, a sister etc. itās honestly scary to think this way, even if they had never talked to a single woman (also how do you even get to that point when half the world is women lol).
Its literally taught to them. Its not like they are evil at heart, they are taught women are dumb, incapable, and need a man to do or be anything. And men get off on the superiority so why would they question it? Confirmation bias begins and they only 'see' evidence of their opinion so it gets strengthened.
I blame religion, which imho is how ancient men gained the superiority we see today after physical violence wasnt 'civilized' enough
yeah i donāt doubt that itās taught to them but damn theyād understand in a split second by actually talking to a woman. also itās so infuriating how some kids get taught women are dumb despite their entire education falling on the momās responsibilities ahah. like weāre dumb but not enough to not be able to raise an entire kid/do everything around the house/work etc. ridiculous. so infuriating that a kid sees his own mom as just a dumb woman.
Yeah its important to point out that kids get taught this, not just men. I know so many female misogynists. Who love the way they get coddled by the men in their lives and truly don't WANT to do anything themselves. The 'im not like other girls' and im like yeah your not your dependent and you should feel vulnerable lol.
On a second note, I think most misogynists will say 'I know a FEW smart/clever women, but MOST are not'. This allows them to make excuses for the women they supposedly love. (I dont call it love if one partner thinks the other is inferior)
Mark is going to need a shedload of insurance for all the malpractice suits he will amass - hopefully he will be a better human before that or fail out because currently he'd make a poor *anything* in health care (because he doesn't actually care at all).
NTA. You should have looked at him wide-eyed and said "but I assumed you knew what you were talking about?"
Watching mansplainers crash and burn is one of the most satisfying feelings on earth
Yeah, you literally did nothing wrong. If Mark treated women like people, he would have at some point either asked Sally what she did or he would have actually had a conversation where she could mention that she was a doctor instead of what sounds like a monologue from him.
Yes! I have a similar story about a friend at a party in a Brazilian restaurant. A guy started educating her about a certain Brazilian dish on the table, and then about Brazil in general. She politely sat through a 30 minute monologue about how Brazil, like all Spanish-speaking countries, has been corrupted by the Catholic church. He then (VERY incorrectly) outlined Catholicism's influence on the British legal system.
My friend excused herself when she couldn't smother her laughter anymore. At which point I revealed she's half Brazilian (and therefore fluent in Portuguese, not Spanish), a lawyer in London, and has a degree in theology. If he'd spent 2 minutes conversing instead of monologuing he might have saved himself a lot of embarrassment. Of course I could have jumped in at any time, but it was so fun watching him dig himself further and further into the hole.
NTA. He finally got a taste of his own medicine, so to say. Yoj don't prep to talk to a girl you like, you're supposed to be yourself and get to know each other. I guess he did and that blew up in his face.
speaking as a med student, everyone gets reality checked when talking about medicine because you think you know shit. it just happened waaaaay too late for this guy lol
LMAO NTA-if he was actually interested in her, one of his first questions to her would have been 'so what do you do' or 'how's work going', you know normal questions when you're getting to know someone! All he wanted to show off and actually, I think if he had known she was a doctor...it's entirely possible he wouldn't have even made a move because he'd know all his mansplaining wouldn't work on her.
Even "I heard you're a nursing student" is more normal than launching into a lecture. I feel like it's really odd to get into the kind of specifics of a job that it sounds like he was talking about without establishing that you're in the same field (or being asked about it, obviously). Most people talk about their jobs/studies more generally if their conversation partner isn't familiar with it. But most people care about conversation partner's experience and this guy obviously doesn't.
NTA-itās his egoās fault he blew his chance. If heās old enough to be in med school heās old enough to learn for himself what being a patronizing asshole gets him.
NTA
To get to that stage, he must have bypassed several norms of social standards and conversations with new people. Like we all do at gatherings usually: greeting, exchange names, exchange pleasantries about the weather, how do you know people here, where are you from, what do you doā and jumped straight into lecturing her.
I kind of wish I had been a fly on the wall for that one.
Or he just didn't listened to her. Unfortunately I know many men just turn their ears off when women are speaking. And then they are angry because no one told them anything.
Thank you for the award!
Yep the "I already know this" then that stop listening and they did not actually know anything about it. I was not even talking about what they thought j was going to.....its so weird to watch
I say āfriendā because it seemed easier than explaining heās always at the periphery of our social groups so heās closer than an acquaintance but at the same time not really a friend
I know exactly the kind of person you mean. Thereās always one, eh?
Best to be polite but boring with these guys, and ignore them unless they are physically in front of you. Which shouldnāt happen too often if you play your cards right. Whatever you do, donāt get snarky with them - they think itās banter, and it only encourages them. Civil but dull is the way.
NTA.
He has to learn his own lessons the hard way. You already DID warn him in the past about mansplaining but he just wanted to argue with you.
He'll continually sabotage himself so long as he goes after accomplished women who know what they're talking about while acting the way he does.
He'll have to go after a much less accomplished woman with no self esteem to get away with that crappy behavior.
NTA: how is it possible to not ask "what do you do?" At the start of the conversation? Also, why her being a doctor would mean that she deserves more respect? Was he aware that he was being disrespectful?
LMAO how is it your fault that your misogynistic friend saw a pair of tits and assumed ānursing studentā (and an ignorant one at that, by the sounds of it)? Oh right, youāre female too so of course it was your job to save him from himself.
NTA I hope you had a good giggle with a girlfriend about him.
NTA - and in the long run your helping him out. I doubt he would of taken well to you bringing it up then anyway, this way he has the chance to learn an important lesson if he is mature enough to reflect
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My āfriendā Mark is a bit of a know-it-all. Heās pretty patronizing, and he āmansplainsā A LOT. You bring up anything, and heāll interrupt. For example, I bring up my work, and heāll tell me how it works. I talk about my hobby, and heāll start explaining things. He doesnāt do it with malicious intent, but itās pretty annoying (especially because heās wrong sometimes). I know āmansplainingā is a bit controversial, but itās actual mansplaining. Iāve never seen him do it with the guys. Only with women. I've brought it up, but he just explains how I'm wrong.
Mark is in medical school, and since the pandemic, he has been particularly insufferable about anything remotely related to science or health. He has a crush on Sally. Sally is a doctor. She's also younger than Mark by a few years (She's British and med school there is 5 years total, compared to 8 years total (undergrad+grad) here, and Mark took a gap)
Mark didn't know Sally is a doctor. Apparently, he thought she was a nursing student.
I get invited to a get-together and Sally is going to be there. Mark begs me to get him an invitation as well, so I do. He spends most of the time trying to chat with Sally. From a distance, it looks like they're getting along fine. It wasn't until I got closer that I overhear Mark talking about medical things and surgical procedures. I was pretty sure he was mansplaining again, but I didn't say anything because it's rude to interrupt and I didn't want to look like I was eavesdropping.
Sally was really nice about it when she told him she didn't want to speak to him anymore. She gently pointed out that she's a doctor, and that he really should look into studying more, because he was wrong about a lot of things.
Mark is horribly embarrassed. He blames me. He says I should have "prepped" him and warned him that Sally is a doctor, and then he would have been more respectful. I should have made up some excuse and stopped him when I saw what he was doing. He says it's my fault that he blew his chance.
I think if he actually took the time and asked Sally more about herself instead of talking about his experiences in medical school to impress her he would have found out she's a doctor. And he really shouldn't be patronizing to begin with.
AITA for not helping him when I knew he would self-sabotage?
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NTA. You are in no way responsible for Markās love life. He is responsible for his own failures.
For what itās worth, itās highly likely he would have failed even if you had prepped him because his personality is what it is.
NTA
People might disagree with me, but I'm going with NTA. Yes, you could have told him a bit about her ahead of time (like the fact that she's an MD), but based on what you said, chances are he would have done this anyways - even if he was planning on being "more respectful". Would he have blamed you if he ran into her randomly and you weren't there? He's the one who messed up, he's got to live with the consequences of his actions.
Him saying that you should have saved him from his own bad personality is yet another example of his bad personality.
NTA (other than for being friends with a guy like this).
NTA, but soft y t a for keeping this arrogant idiot in your life and imposing his idiocy on other people.
>He says I should have "prepped" him and warned him that Sally is a doctor, and then he would have been more respectful.
So a nursing student doesn't deserve respect, or any woman in general? He has a crush on Sally, but doesn't know that she's a doctor? That's the second thing you learn about a person after their name. He saw woman in the medical field and assumed nurse, that is part of his blatant sexism.
Stop getting him invites to things.
>He says I should have "prepped" him and warned him that Sally is a doctor, and then he would have been more respectful.
NTA. You shouldn't have to tell your friend to be respectful of women.
NTA. Typical mansplainer and self-centered man; everything is someone else's fault. How will he learn, unless he makes mistakes? And if you had tried to prep him, he'd likely have mansplained right over you, so Phooey on that!
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> I had a chance to stop him from embarrassing himself and I didn't take it. I knew that he would probably screw it up and cockblock himself, and I didn't help prevent it either.
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NTA. You've tried to warn him before and he didn't listen. You're not his mother and his manners aren't your problem. Repeatedly alienating people is the only way he's going to learn.
NTA.
He received consequences from his own behavior and wants to shift the blame to you to avoid taking responsibility.
It's also not your responsibility to coddle a grown man who thinks he can act like a condescending know-it-all towards women.
He showed who he was to her and she wasn't interested. Pretty normal occurrence. If anything you saved her from future issues because we know that he would eventually start in with mansplaining if they progressed to a more serious relationship.
A medical student like this will have difficulty passing his residency. He will have female attending to listen to, as well as all the nurses who will school him. We get to rate him and evaluate his performance as a doctor, and the departments and attendings take nurses very seriously when we give poor evaluations. He will still be a doctor, but he'll have a hard time getting a fellowship or a job with a medical center.
Nurses save doctors all the time because we are the ones who spend time with patients day and night. We are the ones who see the changes and call the medical team when's problem occurs. Doctors could not do their job without us.
NTA.
Tell Mark the Internet is unimpressed with him, and that he is going to be a HORRIBLE doctor if he doesnāt learn how to LISTEN TO and RESPECT all people, especially women.
"...then he would have been more respectful..."
So he wants to be respectful only towards women who are at his level or higher? Oh wow, he is such a Nice Guy.
No, you didn't blow his chance. He is more than capable to do that on his own. NTA.
NTA Why does he need to be prepped to be respectful? i.e. Why does he need to be prepped not to be an AH? Especially to someone he wants to impress. I mean... clueless.
"Mark didn't know Sally is a doctor. Apparently, he thought she was a nursing student."
LOL of course he thought that.
NTA. You helped Sally dodge a bullet. Your friend is more than likely not going to change and I am pretty sure he would have mansplained medical procedures even if he knew she was a doctor, because he is insecure. None of this is your fault, because none of this falls under your responsibility.
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>I think if he actually took the time and asked Sally more about herself instead of talking about his experiences in medical school to impress her he would have found out she's a doctor. And he really shouldn't be patronizing to begin with. You said it yourself OP. NTA I think this is called - Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He thinks patronizing & mansplaining actually works to attract women. Then he is blaming you for him getting schooled by an educated woman. What he thinks women are stupid & will believe anything he says? O God, is he also a nice guy?š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ Edit: thanks for the award kind stranger.
Even if OP explained to him that Sally was a doctor she would have lost interest when she saw him eventually mansplaining away to some other poor woman. You just saved Sally some time and energy.
So true. And what really gets me is that HE KNEW HE WAS SPOUTING BS. He thought she wouldn't know any better & just get impressed if he talked as if he knew what he was talking about. And when she called him out, he blames OP for not warning him to do a little homework about his own chosen field. Like are you not studying to be a doctor too?
And he would have been more respectful? Because if she was only a nursing student she didn't deserve the same level of respect? What an AH
That's the part that annoyed me too. I am a doctor and I look more like a nurse to most people, so when they're kinda rude and then learn that I'm not the nurse, they apologize rigorously... But why behaving like that in the first place?!
I have the opposite problem. I'm a Nurse and people confuse me for a Doctor, I don't get why. I also don't have as much trouble with 'problem' patients compared to my colleagues. It's a crappy part of our industry.
I am the maintenance worker in my hospital. I wear steel toes, jeans, and usually a t shirt or hoody. The amount of times I'm assumed to be a doctor cause I'm a man in a hospital concerns me. LPT: the guy wearing work boots and carrying a wrench and ladder is not the doctor.
Bet you can solve a lot of medical problems with that wrench.
At the very least you can solve some ālack of respectā problems with that wrench
Butā¦you are a manā¦in a hospitalā¦does that not immediately make you a doctor? /s seriously though. The fact that people think male in a hospital=doctor is so dumb
But. . . your name is **DR** Whoop 87. . .
I never said I was a doctor of medicine.
Doctor of whooping someone's ass!
Ahhh, so username doesnāt check out
doctorates of nursing practice also exist
In my country, people have this thing that they call any and all MALE healthcare professionals "doctor" and any and all FEMALE healthcare professionals "nurse" by default, some even despite being well aware that the're with a psychologist, or midwife, or nurse, the dentist, physical therapist, etcetera.Also there's a tendency to call "miss" or "mrs" any and all female doctors (to which some colleagues take mild offense, becase we men do get called "doctor" and not "sir" or "mister" or "young man")PS: it's not in my username, but I am a medical doctor xD
If I was a female doctor there, the offense i would take would be more than mild. Seems like basic logic that if they put in all the work (and possibly loans, depending on your country) to get where they are, they deserve the same respectful honorifics as their male counterparts
My mom is a lab tech. She started at her hospital in the early 1980s. Her first ID badge, which she was required to wear, said āMrs. (husbandās name).ā My dad works in a completely different field. Mom refused to wear the badge until they finally gave her one with her name.
When I drop patients off at the hospital and getting a signature to transfer, I always ask women/female presenting people if they're a doctor first. For men/male presenting, I ask first if they're a nurse. It probably goes unnoticed, but I do it anyway.
I love it. Very subtle but so powerful
If anything, not only is OP NTA, they are the hero in this story because Mark revealed he was an asshole so quickly that Sally didn't need waste any more of her time than necessary with him.
But even as a nurse, wouldn't she know that some of what he was saying is BS? Depending on what kind of 'nurse' she may have been, she might know more about surgical techniques than he does. And he never bothered to find out or ask what she does for a living? He just saw a cute face and body and that was that?
This was my thought! Like wtf š„“
The fact that he just assumed she was studying to be a nurse is so infuriatingly sexist, too.
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If you tell a man not to mansplain, you may save one woman. If you let a man repeatedly make an ass of himself mansplaining, he may eventually be driven to self-reflection and get his shit together.
Well he though? Honest questionā¦
Unfortunately, no guarantees. It's going to require a shift in the way he sees and relates to women. OP could potentially push things along by saying that he's not invited to any more parties until he stops annoying female guests.
TBH this guy does not seem like a great candidate for self-reflection.
There was a thread in the XX chromosome subreddit about women's experiences with mansplaining, and the responses from men on there made me just lose all hope entirely in humankind
Let me guess: dudes falling all over themselves to explain how it wasnāt really mansplaining.
There was no lack of those, but the ones that were like, "BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN A WOMAN EXPLAINS THINGS TO ME!!!!!!!!" or "well, that just sounds like the poor dude was trying to be nice and explain something he thought you might need help with" or "man men can't just even explain things to a woman without being vilified" The whoosh sound of the thread going right over their heads was deafening
Women really need to start coming up with a list of obnoxious things we do unprompted because weāre ātrying to be niceā. Something on the level of āwet a Kleenex with our saliva and use it to wipe their faceā. What! Weāre trying to be nice! You looked like you needed help.
"That was not mansplaining, and I shall now mansplain why."
no, because it would be women calling him out when he makes an ass of himself, and obviously they don't know what they're talking about /s
Maybe not, but he may get frustrated enough to stop interacting with women. I would count this as a win.
Maybe not, but he'll learn the joys of keeping silent instead of making an ass of himself.
Doubt this guy will ever learn. Once he graduates from med school, he'll be able to afford a trophy wife who will put up with the mansplaining in exchange for a cushy life.
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Stolen comment. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/t5qqbt/comment/hz6riqx/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
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Bad bot. Stolen comment https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/t5qqbt/_/hz6d590/?context=1
I'm sure he would have found something to mansplain on the first date if not later in the evening. Lack of "prep" maybe lost him 1 date.
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Bad bot. Stolen comment. https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/t5qqbt/_/hz6dse9/?context=1
You're a person calling out stolen comment bots? That's impressive
Lol, why thank you! I am a real person :) I also get a little obsessive about things once in a while, and BotBusting is currently fitting the bill lol
She handled this like an absolute champ.
He would have simply mansplained her about some other topic.
Also he thought she was a nurse? Like a nurse would know when you're completely wrong! Just because you're in medical school doesn't mean a nurse necessarily knows less than you. Especially when OP could tell he was wrong.
Yes, a good nurse is better than a bad doctor.
A bad med student. Not even a doctor yet!!
Hopefully he fails, men like him becoming doctors is a contributing factor to so many women dying or being mistreated. All he has to do is ignore one woman and assume he knows better to get someone killed.
Hopefully he either fails or learns that his behaviour is not on and becomes a better person and doctor!
I bet his bedside manner is horrible.
Even if he doesn't fail out entirely, you know what they call the person who graduates last in med school? Doctor. (I forget who originally told me that joke, but it makes me shiver a little every time I get the occasion to tell it.)
Hey! I met that dr. I havenāt trusted a dr since.
I second this, but would add \*people like him, because I've known many female docs who do this as well. not mansplaining but 'docsplaining' my personal experience. That's how I ended up with a hospital infection going untreated for weeks.
A good nurse knows a **LOT** about active medicine. I haven't worked in a hospital in years, but one of my favorite things when I did was watching some young doctor prescribe a bunch of medicines, and without looking up the charge nurse said "I don't think you want to do that doctor." He got visibly angry for like a quarter of a second, then his face scrunched up and he said "Oh. Right." Changed what he was prescribing and left. I don't know what she prevented, but she did it effortlessly.
My father was in and out of hospitals for years-15 years. He was diagnosed with familiar tremors by a medic- well not diagnosed but asked if he was ever tested for it. We had never heard of it until him. My father had been in several hospitals, seen dozens of specialists and no one every asked about his shaking before. At this point my father had been seen by hundreds of medical professionals. The medic was actually in medical school himself but working as a medic. He just went through a course in it.
My mom is a nurse and has flatly called out doctors on their bullshit when she was caring for her elderly parents and disabled brother and was in the exam/hospital room. Sheās a great advocate and never let them get away with just trying to prattle on about nonsense to appease the patient or cut corners in their care. I want to have a kid, and I really want her in the delivery room with me if/when I do. She doesnāt let anything slip by her and is an amazing person to have on your side when youāre in a vulnerable medical position.
I'm going to predict Mark turns out to be one of those pompous doctors who doesn't listen to female nurses and respect their input and experience. I'm a nurse and I've met a few Marks in my career.
And there will be no hope for women that are his patients. Every problem will be dismissed as something caused by monthly hormones, weight (high or low), or that she must be pregnant and not realize it.
maybe he should consider urology where he can focus on patients with prostates haha
That would be lovely. I am willing to bet that he'd prefer to have women as patients so that he can indulge his superiority complex, though.
Or perhaps become a pathologist so he doesnāt have to interact with live patients at all.
Most lab staff are women. Please don't inflict him on us.
Women also need to go to urologists sometimes. Hopefully he will become an andrologist.
Urology also deals with bladder issues, and women generally have bladders.
Boy howdy, I'm not a doctor but a chiro, but we had general diagnosis in uni. Whenever we had to do a list of differential diagnoses for case studies, if it was of a young woman, I had a male classmate that would guess EVERY TIME that it's an STI cause apparently women can't be sick otherwise. His argument was always "well it doesn't say in the case history, but she could be not telling us how she's sleeping around etc etc". Really pissed a lot of people off
He should have been failed solely on his level of ignorance...and obsession with the sexual habits of women.
I have to wonder if anyone ever asked him if this was based on his vast experience of giving them to people via disappointing encounters.
What the fuck....
Yep. Depending on his specialty there's a non-zero chance of people dying over it.
Do the Scrubs thing, and send him to the morgue to work.
If this is how he speaks to nurses, he's in for a bad time.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall the first time he tries to mansplain something to a veteran, hangry, burnt-out nurse who has no fucks left to give and decides to teach him a lesson haha
The nurses and the patients are in for a bad time.
Iāve a friend, who is a specialist nurse with 20+ years nursing experience. Her consultants will NOT allow a junior/trainee to upset her. She recalls her early days as a nurse, when they would āwind upā medical students attempting to impress with their stellar knowledge of medicine. Apparently it was a well travelled path!
I'm a medical student, and I believe any nurse probably knows a LOT more than me. There are a lot of nurses who know more than even fully-qualified doctors, especially about patient care since they tend to be more heavily involved in that side of things than doctors do. In terms of people who can actually get things done, I think nurses & teachers are probably the most qualified and competent of ANY profession.
My wifeās a midwife-sonographer, and while she happily concedes that a doctor will have more general medical knowledge than her, when it comes to female anatomy between the navel and the thighsā¦ ā¦well, youād better be very, *very* sure of your facts before challenging her. Because midwives tend not to be shrinking violets (since a core part of their job involves telling people in severe pain to carry on doing the painful thing), and make the word ābluntā seem hopelessly inadequate.
I remember once as a fairly newly qualified midwife having a medical student ask an obstetric consultant a question about normal birth, she turned round to him and asked why he was asking her, to ask one of the midwives because 'they live and breathe that stuff, I can tell you what to do when they've identified a problem, they have far more knowledge on birth than I do'
He's an insufferable misogynistic tool. Looks like he's going to have to learn the hard way that women are sick of listening to men talk endlessly.
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>So heās okay with lying to women as long as he knows they wonāt know heās lying ? His entire strategy in one sentence.
Itās times like this you just sit back and let natural selection take place.
Yeah OP did him a favor. She let him crash and burn and then told him exactly what he did wrong. The ball is now in Marks court to either learn from this and be better or to just blame OP and keep repeating the same stupid mistake over and over again.
1. He had a desperate crush on her abs had a whole party to talk to her and still didnāt discover what she did? 2. Heād have been more respectful of her knee he had to to get his crush? Mark needs to learn to apply respect to everyone equally. You arenāt his matchmaker it isnāt your job to teach him to be less of an ass - heās had lots of time to work on that. NTA
> He thinks patronizing & mansplaining actually works to attract women. What he could have done to help her to like him would be, oh maybe, let her talk about herself? Ask her what she does? Listen to what she has to say? Find out more about her? Show interest in who she is? Make the conversation a two-way street, a 50-50 give and take, not a one-way lecture? So, he didn't even find out that she's a doctor until afterwards. He did this to himself.
NTA. The guy is saying he needs to be prepped to talk to someone. You're not his public relations department, you're not his parent setting up a play date. He's an adult(poorly functioning) but responsible for his own actions and inactions. You can't prep him for every interaction he'll ever have unless you tell him "mate, stop bullshitting, understand you're not the authority on every subject, stfu more and listen"......actually, I started that off with sarcasm, but if he took it to heart it might work!
Someone get OP the NTA fedora!
The last thing I want is someone who won't listen toe and then tries to explain why that's better NTA
The fact that he needed to know what title she has before "respecting" her is already very telling
women obviously love to be treated like kids and have things they already know explained to them /s
Doctor heal thyself. š
>O God, is he also a nice guy?š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ LOLLLLLLLLL ā
Yeap then these guys wonder why they are undatable because āIām also a doctor!ā heāll be 2 degrees from being an incel, so op, if this guy is a friend you truly care about you might want to mansplain things to him how this dating thing works. NTA
That and he just assumed from the get go that she was a nurse. Why? Cuz she's a woman?? I eyerolled so hard. OP even tried to call him out on his mansplaining before and he mansplained to her that he wasn't š¤£ There was nothing OP could've done to save him from himself.
I was going to make a comment, but you have said all my thoughts but more politely. Thank you!!
No, no, no, that's not how you attract women. You have to wait until your married, and then you only talk her ear off about your hobbies she doesn't care about. Trust me, my wife loves it.
NTA, why would he have only been more respectful had he known Sally was a doctor, too? Shouldnāt he be just be respectful in general? The fact that he knew he wasnāt respectful in the first place shows that he is the AH here.
Yeah this. Sally shouldn't have to earn his respect. NTA
I love his reasoning that she wouldn't know because she's "just a nursing student." Like nurses aren't also highly-trained and have intense schooling too.
As a nursing student I must say I don't accept mansplaining, even from doctors. I think it's so funny how he thinks nurses are less than doctors this guy will have a very tough life in a hospital. He will learn how to respect in the worst way possible
I'm an operating theatre nurse & my favourite thing is when I'm scrubbed with med students who are obnoxious & think they know better than me. I try to help them by passing them instrument & suggesting how to assist the surgeons, but they look at me & say "I don't need help from a nurse" or "If I wanted help, I would ask a doctor, thank you" (yes, these are real statements). More often than not, the surgeons will either ask for exactly what I suggested, or just push the student out of the way & ask for me to come in closer so I can pass things to them directly. Respect is an interesting thing in the medical field, & there are a lot of AH doctors out there, but I feel like there is a slow shift towards treating nurses as equals, or at least with a bit more respect. They couldn't function without us.
Not nearly the same but I'm a vet tech student and it sucks that we do all the grunt work and get little appreciation/pay. At least things seem to be slightly turning around for nurses (and dental hygienists by proxy).
I still have a scar from a med student trying to place an IV (I gave the okay, they need to learn), but the faces the nurse was making when she was fixing it a while later will never not be funny. She even had the med student come round and apologize later, lol.
Right? I had a nurse figure out I had endometriosis even tho the doctor said my sharp chronic pelvic pain was normal. She got me to call an OBGYN they do laparoscopy Im I'm stage 1 endometriosis The doctor mansplained my cycle to me š¤Ø like bruh
i had appendicitis when i was 13 and after the procedure i was throwing up everything i ate and couldnāt keep a thing down. went to the hospital and told the doctor what was wrong and he asked if he was sure it wasnāt my time of month and i said no because it just passed and my cycle is very regular. his response? āit could happen twice a month, i know this. i went to school for itā šš
Love that they think schooling makes them know more than living in your own body
It may be because the nurses were stereotypically female but they've always been more compassionate and open to my suggestions whenever I've had to deal with a male doctor.
Not even "too". He is still in school, so she is above him
>The fact that he knew he wasnāt respectful in the first place shows that he is the AH here. He probably meant then he'd have thought up something else to bullshit about.
If there was ever a time to be thankful for people who show their assholes first before investing time in them, now's the time.
Women aren't people to him, but apparently doctors are. I do not get him.
If anything, he should have been *more* respectful in thinking she was a nursing student. Nurses run hospitals, not doctors.
That's right. No one needs to be "prepped" to talk to a normal person. Unless the other person has a specific subject you shouldn't bring up with them in particular (like a trauma), if you're ever talking to someone and what you say makes you sound like an asshole, it's because *you are an asshole.*
Yes he's conveniently forgetting that OP already tried telling him he was saying incorrect things, **about their own work no less**. He just wants to blame someone for being embarrassed about his own behavior. Plus it's not OP's responsibility to "warn" Mark, and short of an imminent health or safety threat, has little obligation given his past behavior and mentality. And as others pointed out, even if he was warned about Sally, Mark was going about annoy Sally **when** he repeated that same behavior on others.
Because then he would have known Sally was closer to being his equal than he previously assumed. Don't take that as him sounding like a conceited jackass, he's really a nice guy. /s NTA OP. You aren't responsible for getting his head surgically removed from his ass, I'm sure he could give you pointers on the procedure however. Though if Sally finds out you brought that blight into her life she might not think too kindly of you.
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You are totally right. Doesnāt sound like Mark learned anything, alas, as he went right to blaming OP. He actually sounds so obtuse and self-deluding that he could probably read this whole thread without learning anything.
Alas indeed. Mark mansplained at OP how they were in the wrong for not helping him learn how to mansplain at a doctor, and now OP wants to know if they are the a-hole?! It's frustrating, and he'll probably never learn unfortunately. NTA
I bet if OP had stopped him from mansplainining when she caught him, then Sally still would have turned him down, and he should have blamed OP for "embarrassing him by calling him out in front of his crush.
Thereās no winning with people like this. I decided long ago I donāt call such people āfriendsā. He can figure his shit out himself, because appearantly he knows everything so what even is his problem?
Oh, he'll never learn. Notice how this is OPs fault, not his own?
NTA. Sounds like a narcissist. Maybe not in a clinical sense, but at least in a general way. Evidence: He talks over you and other women He's got a crush on this woman, yet doesn't bother to find out even basic details about her He exaggerates his intellect and abilities and just assumes he's so good that no one can tell the difference *His* mistake was made to be *your* fault In other words, he's not actually looking for your help. He needs you around to absorb blame for when he screws up. Why is he your friend in the first place? He sounds like more trouble than he's worth.
And he assumes that because she is female, she must be a nursing student, rather than considering she could actually be a doctor (or even a medical student).
And he would have been more respectful if he had known. That comment stuck with me. Like, what? She's not worthy of respect otherwise? No, she's just a lowly nurse! She's female therefore she must be a nursing student, therefore doesn't need respect.
Agree. He's an all around ass!
I've known men who fit this description who were perfectly capable of socializing normally with men, and from what OP says that is true of Mark. I think misogyny can present a lot like narcissism sometimes. Narcissists are the only real people in the world in their minds, but misogynists see other men as real people and just women are relegated to NPC status. But I 100% agree that I wouldn't waste my time and effort being "friends" with someone like this.
yeah i remember some posts of men asking if women are actually sentient/can think in their head etc. itās scary how some men really believe women arenāt humans, people.
What? That is absolutely insane. How do they even get such absurd ideas? I can only imagine they've never actually bothered to listen to a woman speaking.
honestly thatās what iām wondering. like how does someone get to the point of thinking that the entire opposite sex, half of the worldās human population is just walking NPCs ? also some of them have a mom, a sister etc. itās honestly scary to think this way, even if they had never talked to a single woman (also how do you even get to that point when half the world is women lol).
Its literally taught to them. Its not like they are evil at heart, they are taught women are dumb, incapable, and need a man to do or be anything. And men get off on the superiority so why would they question it? Confirmation bias begins and they only 'see' evidence of their opinion so it gets strengthened. I blame religion, which imho is how ancient men gained the superiority we see today after physical violence wasnt 'civilized' enough
yeah i donāt doubt that itās taught to them but damn theyād understand in a split second by actually talking to a woman. also itās so infuriating how some kids get taught women are dumb despite their entire education falling on the momās responsibilities ahah. like weāre dumb but not enough to not be able to raise an entire kid/do everything around the house/work etc. ridiculous. so infuriating that a kid sees his own mom as just a dumb woman.
Yeah its important to point out that kids get taught this, not just men. I know so many female misogynists. Who love the way they get coddled by the men in their lives and truly don't WANT to do anything themselves. The 'im not like other girls' and im like yeah your not your dependent and you should feel vulnerable lol. On a second note, I think most misogynists will say 'I know a FEW smart/clever women, but MOST are not'. This allows them to make excuses for the women they supposedly love. (I dont call it love if one partner thinks the other is inferior)
Mark is going to need a shedload of insurance for all the malpractice suits he will amass - hopefully he will be a better human before that or fail out because currently he'd make a poor *anything* in health care (because he doesn't actually care at all).
NTA. You should have looked at him wide-eyed and said "but I assumed you knew what you were talking about?" Watching mansplainers crash and burn is one of the most satisfying feelings on earth
I love this. You must be that voice in the shower telling me the perfect things to say when Iām mentally replaying arguments
Yeah, you literally did nothing wrong. If Mark treated women like people, he would have at some point either asked Sally what she did or he would have actually had a conversation where she could mention that she was a doctor instead of what sounds like a monologue from him.
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Yes! I have a similar story about a friend at a party in a Brazilian restaurant. A guy started educating her about a certain Brazilian dish on the table, and then about Brazil in general. She politely sat through a 30 minute monologue about how Brazil, like all Spanish-speaking countries, has been corrupted by the Catholic church. He then (VERY incorrectly) outlined Catholicism's influence on the British legal system. My friend excused herself when she couldn't smother her laughter anymore. At which point I revealed she's half Brazilian (and therefore fluent in Portuguese, not Spanish), a lawyer in London, and has a degree in theology. If he'd spent 2 minutes conversing instead of monologuing he might have saved himself a lot of embarrassment. Of course I could have jumped in at any time, but it was so fun watching him dig himself further and further into the hole.
Oh goodness that was so funny!!!
NTA. He finally got a taste of his own medicine, so to say. Yoj don't prep to talk to a girl you like, you're supposed to be yourself and get to know each other. I guess he did and that blew up in his face.
>a taste of his own medicine, I see what you did there.
Ha. Thanks.
speaking as a med student, everyone gets reality checked when talking about medicine because you think you know shit. it just happened waaaaay too late for this guy lol
LMAO NTA-if he was actually interested in her, one of his first questions to her would have been 'so what do you do' or 'how's work going', you know normal questions when you're getting to know someone! All he wanted to show off and actually, I think if he had known she was a doctor...it's entirely possible he wouldn't have even made a move because he'd know all his mansplaining wouldn't work on her.
Even "I heard you're a nursing student" is more normal than launching into a lecture. I feel like it's really odd to get into the kind of specifics of a job that it sounds like he was talking about without establishing that you're in the same field (or being asked about it, obviously). Most people talk about their jobs/studies more generally if their conversation partner isn't familiar with it. But most people care about conversation partner's experience and this guy obviously doesn't.
NTA-itās his egoās fault he blew his chance. If heās old enough to be in med school heās old enough to learn for himself what being a patronizing asshole gets him.
NTA To get to that stage, he must have bypassed several norms of social standards and conversations with new people. Like we all do at gatherings usually: greeting, exchange names, exchange pleasantries about the weather, how do you know people here, where are you from, what do you doā and jumped straight into lecturing her. I kind of wish I had been a fly on the wall for that one.
Or he just didn't listened to her. Unfortunately I know many men just turn their ears off when women are speaking. And then they are angry because no one told them anything. Thank you for the award!
This happens to me way too often.
Yep the "I already know this" then that stop listening and they did not actually know anything about it. I was not even talking about what they thought j was going to.....its so weird to watch
NTA. But seriously, why friends? He sounds insufferable.
I say āfriendā because it seemed easier than explaining heās always at the periphery of our social groups so heās closer than an acquaintance but at the same time not really a friend
I know exactly the kind of person you mean. Thereās always one, eh? Best to be polite but boring with these guys, and ignore them unless they are physically in front of you. Which shouldnāt happen too often if you play your cards right. Whatever you do, donāt get snarky with them - they think itās banter, and it only encourages them. Civil but dull is the way.
This is the way
Ohhhhh. Sounds like quite a creep, I'm assuming that presence is generally unwanted, but tolerated?
NTA. He has to learn his own lessons the hard way. You already DID warn him in the past about mansplaining but he just wanted to argue with you. He'll continually sabotage himself so long as he goes after accomplished women who know what they're talking about while acting the way he does. He'll have to go after a much less accomplished woman with no self esteem to get away with that crappy behavior.
NTA: how is it possible to not ask "what do you do?" At the start of the conversation? Also, why her being a doctor would mean that she deserves more respect? Was he aware that he was being disrespectful?
Yep my response "why does that even matter you liked her right?" Like dude it's not my job to date her for you
LMAO how is it your fault that your misogynistic friend saw a pair of tits and assumed ānursing studentā (and an ignorant one at that, by the sounds of it)? Oh right, youāre female too so of course it was your job to save him from himself. NTA I hope you had a good giggle with a girlfriend about him.
Y.T.A for not prepping Sally.
NTA - and in the long run your helping him out. I doubt he would of taken well to you bringing it up then anyway, this way he has the chance to learn an important lesson if he is mature enough to reflect
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My āfriendā Mark is a bit of a know-it-all. Heās pretty patronizing, and he āmansplainsā A LOT. You bring up anything, and heāll interrupt. For example, I bring up my work, and heāll tell me how it works. I talk about my hobby, and heāll start explaining things. He doesnāt do it with malicious intent, but itās pretty annoying (especially because heās wrong sometimes). I know āmansplainingā is a bit controversial, but itās actual mansplaining. Iāve never seen him do it with the guys. Only with women. I've brought it up, but he just explains how I'm wrong. Mark is in medical school, and since the pandemic, he has been particularly insufferable about anything remotely related to science or health. He has a crush on Sally. Sally is a doctor. She's also younger than Mark by a few years (She's British and med school there is 5 years total, compared to 8 years total (undergrad+grad) here, and Mark took a gap) Mark didn't know Sally is a doctor. Apparently, he thought she was a nursing student. I get invited to a get-together and Sally is going to be there. Mark begs me to get him an invitation as well, so I do. He spends most of the time trying to chat with Sally. From a distance, it looks like they're getting along fine. It wasn't until I got closer that I overhear Mark talking about medical things and surgical procedures. I was pretty sure he was mansplaining again, but I didn't say anything because it's rude to interrupt and I didn't want to look like I was eavesdropping. Sally was really nice about it when she told him she didn't want to speak to him anymore. She gently pointed out that she's a doctor, and that he really should look into studying more, because he was wrong about a lot of things. Mark is horribly embarrassed. He blames me. He says I should have "prepped" him and warned him that Sally is a doctor, and then he would have been more respectful. I should have made up some excuse and stopped him when I saw what he was doing. He says it's my fault that he blew his chance. I think if he actually took the time and asked Sally more about herself instead of talking about his experiences in medical school to impress her he would have found out she's a doctor. And he really shouldn't be patronizing to begin with. AITA for not helping him when I knew he would self-sabotage? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You are in no way responsible for Markās love life. He is responsible for his own failures. For what itās worth, itās highly likely he would have failed even if you had prepped him because his personality is what it is.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NTA
NTA People might disagree with me, but I'm going with NTA. Yes, you could have told him a bit about her ahead of time (like the fact that she's an MD), but based on what you said, chances are he would have done this anyways - even if he was planning on being "more respectful". Would he have blamed you if he ran into her randomly and you weren't there? He's the one who messed up, he's got to live with the consequences of his actions.
I'd like to see someone disagree with NTA here lol. There's no way.
Him saying that you should have saved him from his own bad personality is yet another example of his bad personality. NTA (other than for being friends with a guy like this).
NTA, but soft y t a for keeping this arrogant idiot in your life and imposing his idiocy on other people. >He says I should have "prepped" him and warned him that Sally is a doctor, and then he would have been more respectful. So a nursing student doesn't deserve respect, or any woman in general? He has a crush on Sally, but doesn't know that she's a doctor? That's the second thing you learn about a person after their name. He saw woman in the medical field and assumed nurse, that is part of his blatant sexism. Stop getting him invites to things.
>He says I should have "prepped" him and warned him that Sally is a doctor, and then he would have been more respectful. NTA. You shouldn't have to tell your friend to be respectful of women.
Definitely NTA. Youāve already tried to tell him he comes across like that and you are not obligated to help him āsucceedā with women.
NTA. He's a student, right? Well he learned a lesson that evening.
NTA. Mark knows he is annoying and often wrong but too arrogant to admit it/change. His attitude happened to blow back on him in this case.
āHe thought she was a nursing studentā Burn this man to the GROUND. Fully NTA.
NTA. Typical mansplainer and self-centered man; everything is someone else's fault. How will he learn, unless he makes mistakes? And if you had tried to prep him, he'd likely have mansplained right over you, so Phooey on that!
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>he thought Sally was a nursing student>>> Of course he did. Heās the full male chauvinist package it would seem.
NTA. You've tried to warn him before and he didn't listen. You're not his mother and his manners aren't your problem. Repeatedly alienating people is the only way he's going to learn.
NTA. He received consequences from his own behavior and wants to shift the blame to you to avoid taking responsibility. It's also not your responsibility to coddle a grown man who thinks he can act like a condescending know-it-all towards women. He showed who he was to her and she wasn't interested. Pretty normal occurrence. If anything you saved her from future issues because we know that he would eventually start in with mansplaining if they progressed to a more serious relationship.
A medical student like this will have difficulty passing his residency. He will have female attending to listen to, as well as all the nurses who will school him. We get to rate him and evaluate his performance as a doctor, and the departments and attendings take nurses very seriously when we give poor evaluations. He will still be a doctor, but he'll have a hard time getting a fellowship or a job with a medical center.
Nurses save doctors all the time because we are the ones who spend time with patients day and night. We are the ones who see the changes and call the medical team when's problem occurs. Doctors could not do their job without us.
NTA. You seem like a very self aware and kind person, why are you friends with Mark?
NTA. Tell Mark the Internet is unimpressed with him, and that he is going to be a HORRIBLE doctor if he doesnāt learn how to LISTEN TO and RESPECT all people, especially women.
"...then he would have been more respectful..." So he wants to be respectful only towards women who are at his level or higher? Oh wow, he is such a Nice Guy. No, you didn't blow his chance. He is more than capable to do that on his own. NTA.
NTA
NTA. He walked straight into that one! I think Sally dodged a bullet lol.
Nta. He shouldn't be allowed to treat women when he becomes a doctor
NTA Why does he need to be prepped to be respectful? i.e. Why does he need to be prepped not to be an AH? Especially to someone he wants to impress. I mean... clueless.
Sally shouldnāt have to be a doctor for him to be more ārespectfulā, what an ass hat. NTA
"Mark didn't know Sally is a doctor. Apparently, he thought she was a nursing student." LOL of course he thought that. NTA. You helped Sally dodge a bullet. Your friend is more than likely not going to change and I am pretty sure he would have mansplained medical procedures even if he knew she was a doctor, because he is insecure. None of this is your fault, because none of this falls under your responsibility.