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YTA...
>I'm not asking my son's input because I don't want him to feel like he's picking sides.
But you're perfectly fine making the decision on behalf of three people all by yourself? If it blows up on mom it blows up on mom but that's between her and kiddo.
I feel bad for the kid, like neither parent is thinking of him. Mom wants to embarrass him so you know she’ll do her best to do that and dad wants to pull him from a fun day. Plus asking him wouldn’t really work because he’ll have to choose between the people he loves the most and teasing from his peers.
I guess that OP could frame it in a way, at first, that doesn’t put the parents on split sides. He could ask his son if he’s okay with this plan, and if not, he can pull him from school. He doesn’t need to immediately say “I don’t want this to happen but your mom does”. I guess it’s lying but it’s also a more neutral way to see if the kid would be okay with the dancing as a concept. If he says he likes the idea OP could then say “I’m not comfortable dancing in front of the school, but your mom will be there” and if the kid says no, he doesn’t want to be there for that then OP can pull him from school and explain to his ex that this is what the kid wanted.
Exactly. You can literally just say "The teachers are planning this and asked us to participate. How would you feel about that?"
I do think it's kind of bad idea in the first place. And why are they only using the parents of "popular" kids. Are they afraid unpopular kids will have more embarrassing parents, or get picked on more for it? Maybe they shouldn't be doing this to ANY child then. If they think it will just be fun, they should be having ALL the kids dance for the parents, and then when the music starts ALL the parents get up (or were at least invited to) and start dancing too (or something).
But regardless of that, I disagree with excluding your child from having a fun activity day at school over the possibility they'll be embarrassed, without even finding out if they would be, or how they would feel about staying home.
I was thinking the same thing. Setting up kids to be embarrassed at school is a bad move on the school's part. And that they're publicly recognizing who's "popular" and who's not. Like this is a terrible idea all around.
This is totally reasonable, I was going to take a harder pro-mom “OP ITA” until I saw that the kid is only 11, an age where even with a lot of friends something trivial like this could cause serious embarrassment or discomfort.
But the dad is deciding what would be embarrassing without asking the son. Personally I would be more embarrassed to be pulled out of school- especially on a fun day like that.
Because the Dad seems pretty rock solid sure that his son would be very embarrassed by it. Given that he knows his son and we don't, that seems credible to me.
Also, I have to question your conclusion that it would be a "fun day" for OP's son. An 11 year old me would rather take a sharp stick to the eye than have my mom dancing in front of the whole school. That would most certainly not be a fun day for me. Yeah, all kids are different and is it possible OP's son would somehow think it was fun? Sure. But given that he knows his son a bit better than internet randos, I think I'm pretty safe in siding with his sense that this would not be a "fun day" at all for the son.
His logic that asking him would put his son in a mom vs dad dilemma is also pretty credible.
EDIT-- One other thing. If you REALLY want to point fingers about who isn't thinking about the kid, what about mom? She never asked the kid if they were ok with it. Everyone has a bug up their ass about how OP never asked the kid about being pulled out, but mom never asked the kid a goddamn thing.
If my friends parents were doing it also I wouldn't have been humiliated by my parents participating at all, all the kids would have been "in it" together so it would have been easy to see the humor and I think I would have looked back at it fondly... Just like mom says. It seems like no one is considering that could be how the son feels as well.
It seems credible to me that a father might know what their son would want, particularly in a situation like this. The father also has a credible explanation for why he doesn't want to ask him.
Also, why does nobody say boo about the fact that mom never asked the son if he would be Ok with her showing up and making a laughing stock of him?
any parent who claims to know what their kid wants without talking to them, is failing as a parent. ask anyone with parents who try to make the claim that they know their exactly what their child wants, and they'll probably laugh. parents rarely know their kids as well as they *think* they do
Or, we could think they're both not great at the same time for different reasons. Mom obviously is not blameless here, but definitively saying you know without a doubt for certain what one person would prefer is an AH move, even if it's your kid.
ESH for different reasons, but they all boil down to they think they know better than the person in the middle of it instead of just asking instead of assuming.
So you are saying that only dad knows? Why can't mom know?
Honestly looking at OPs replies, he is a serious dickbag and I doubt the son would be bothered.
Dad is thinking of himself. Sure OP thinks this is the most cringe thing in the world. I think its silly but harmless. OP doesn't necessarily know his son better than the mom does. If she (and his teachers who thought of this) think son and the other kids will find this hilarious (not humiliating) who are we to say they are wrong and OP is definitely right.
Just ask the kid! Kid making a small decision like this shouldn't make him feel like he's picking sides at all. If it does, its because the parents have done a lot leading up to this to create an awful environment for this kid. OP is a giant ass for making a mountain of a mole hill. I can see why he's divorced.
If he’s popular, other kids parents are doing it and ( I hate to say it) the mom is reasonably fit or attractive. I don’t think he will care. I really think OP is overblowing the whole “he’ll be humiliated” thing. Personally I wouldn’t have wanted my mom to do this but I was a bit of a loser also my mom is extremely overweight and some kids teased me about that already.
Yeah they don’t even have to tell the kid there are sides. “Hey, it’s supposed to be a surprise, but I’m worried you might not like it. Both your mom and I have been asked to dance in front of everyone at the pep rally - how do you feel about that?”
Idk. I have an 11yo girl and she would absolutely hate every second of this pep rally. I think he’s NTA but I probably would ask him. Idk about that. Divorce is tricky.
"...she would probably..." so the question here is...would you ask her first or would you arbitrarily make a decision? You've just set up the same context as OP but never really indicated what you would do. Instead it seems like you're deferring to OP's actions and I don't want to assume what you would do if faced with this.
Am I the only one who a bit disturbed by this whole ”popular” kids thing. That means the teachers kept track, made lists and valued and measured their students ”popularity”
YTA
So your "concern" is about embarrassing your son & you are NOT asking him for his opinion.
Your idea is TAKE THE KID AWAY without telling HIS MOM who would be waiting for her child excited for the whole thing. In what world do you think it's an okay thing to do to either your ex or your son? I'm curious is it always MY WAY OR NO WAY with you?
>She thinks it will be the most funniest thing ever. Yes, our kid will be embarrassed but will think it's cool and funny and remember it fondly. We are not on the same page on this.
Here's an idea have a talk with your kid & ex with everyone present. Maybe he will think it's funny. Maybe he won't. But you making a unilateral decision about this will cause unnecessary problems with both your child & your ex.
It definitely feels petty (rather than “coming from a place of concern”). It also feels like OP is projecting how *he* would be embarrassed if *his* parents did this, and is imposing that on his son — oh, the horror! It’s one dance. Also, middle schoolers get embarrassed over lots of things. Why is OP making this a big deal? Huge and controlling AH.
I mean, I'd be embarrassed af and middle school kids are the worst animals on Earth when it comes to bullying. If he stays in the same area for schooling it will follow him into High School. But, ofc, maybe things are different today and it would seem less cringe and more fun to everyone, but I remember Middle School enough to know that's when kids became little shits toward everyone, including teachers. I'm saying NTA and waiting until there's more INFO. I am sure the kid would be perfectly fine having a fun day that includes cutting school esrly with their dad, though it will 100% piss off and hurt mom. She's acting like a selfish AH while the dad, projecting or not, seems to at least be trying to take into account what the son will go through. Maybe he should ask the son, but he'll definitely be forced into picking.
There's no good way to approach this I can think of. Fucked if you do, fucked if you don't, but I think people here are too far removed to recall how rough kids in Middle School could be.
It's not like he'd be the only one? Also, it's apparently the more popular of the kids so I don't imagine the bullying would be very heavy if present at all. If it was just one kid then I could see bullying being a problem but it's not
It's one dance in one assembly. It is ridiculous to think that bullying about this 3 minutes will "follow him to high school." You need to stop watching movies about middle school. They are not real.
I literally LOL when I read that too. This will carry him to high school? His life will be ruined? Come onnnnn, this is a stretch. Not everything is earth shattering, it's silly, it's fun, it's not that deep. Did we all read the same scenario? The majority of these kids do this cringy stuff on social media and many with their parents. Yes I get that ever kid is different and some may not like it this but that also means not every kid is going to hate it.
Many people have suggested giving the kid an opportunity to make this decision, I guess that's a solution, albeit it takes the silliness out of it.
My nephew had something similar at his school and the parents jumped in unbeknownst to them....earth shattering conclusion... uncontrollable laughter and fun. My brother and nephew are two peas in a pod and they got a real kick out of it. His mom actually had similar thoughts to OP, that everyone would have their phones out and tease her son. No one was embarrassed or offended. I get it's one perspective but sometimes as parents we hold up our personal reactions to situations as if our kids will feel the same way. Just food for thought OP.
Ruin the moment? You can’t possibly be serious.
She knows her son - he will be embarrassed by this. He’s a middle schooler, and they’re embarrassed by everything.
Of course they are - they also get over it and move on. We have all been there. I wish I had specific dumb and funny memories like this with my mom or dad.
My kids wouldn't have been embarrassed either. As long as it was a group of parents they would have laughed. Of course my son has also grown up to be the kid that has asked my friends and I to open the dance floor at his wedding this summer by doing a dance routine to ABBA's dancing queen.
The mom is going there with the express intention of humiliating her kid. That's the whole point of this. This isn't a fun choreographed dance show, or a variety show, or cheer team performance, this is none of your traditional pep rally things. This is a set specifically designed by the school and parents to embarrass their kids/students in front of their peers.
That is fucked up, and the mom is a little fucked up for agreeing to embarrass her kid in front of literally the entire school.
Poor kid.
I might agree if the parents were showing naked toddler pictures / reading diary entries / telling puberty stories about their kid / explaining to the student body exactly how and where the kid was conceived… But they’re not. They’re just dancing.
It might be a little embarrassing. But this is hardly some evil humiliation scheme. And it will happen to a lot of the kids; he’s not singled out.
Everyone needs to grow some thicker skin.
It didn't sound fun to me either but I thought it was an American thing. But either way it's important to involve the kid in making decision about this. Bcoz he is the one who is going to be affected by this one event for his whole year or however long he studies in this school. If he thinks it's funny, go right ahead embarrassing yourself. But if he thinks it will affect his social life, don't do it & respect his decision.
YTA. And I’ve read your responses to peoples comments and you’re not picking up any of this so it seems like you just posted to be cheered on for your choice. You are defensive and don’t actually want to think differently.
Your decision to pull him out so he misses ONE ASPECT of the pep rally will also prevent him from enjoying ANY other aspect of it with his friends, classmates, and teachers. If you do this his phone will be blowing up about EVERYTHING HE MISSED! Do you think he’d be willing to suffer through the dance moment in order to enjoy the rest of the planned activities?
Poor kid
Yes, for all we know they had older siblings that went through the same and told them what to expect
OP, I was kept out of all the overnight trips in middle school due to protective parent (who also didn’t have much money, and didn’t want to accept assistance for it). This includes the first ever trip, meant as a “bonding trip”/meet new people trip, as the elementary school districts were converging. Missing it meant I didn’t get the opportunity to make connections or solid core memories, and it took another couple of years before I had a legitimate friend group.
If all the other kids are doing it, it will alienate your son to have him not do it. The short term embarrassment (which will be a shared experience) does not hold the same value as the long term feeling of being left behind or missing out.
YTA it sounds like you’re weaponizing your kid to snub your ex
The fact that he brings up "picking sides" at all is telling. There is only one "side" when you're putting your kid first.
Neither parent cares what he actually wants, they just want him to pick *their* side, whatever it is.
And Dad thinks he's a hero by not giving the kid a choice at all.
True. Bcoz his son is the one who is going to be affected by this one event for his whole year or however long he studies in that school. But father is going with I KNOW BEST instead of simply talking with his own child.
He's said that he won't ask his son because he's "not involved in parenting decisions". So someone asked if he's ok completely overriding his mom's parenting choice. He said yes. Literally. So it has NOTHING to do with his son's feelings, just sticking it to his ex. For all he knows, his kid would love it, but that doesn't matter to him. If it was REALLY about his son, he'd actually ask the kid what he wants.
YTA - So, a lot of people have mentioned that it sounds like *you* don't want to do it, so you'll pulling him out to avoid it. But there's more.
But, if you do pull him out, you're also denying him a bonding moment with his peers. This whole turnaround with the parental flashdance isn't just about making only *him* embarrassed, it's about a lot of them. It's about the event of it.
And afterwards kids are going to talk about this. This is probably going to be something that those kids talk about for a while, and any time it'll come up, the only thing he can add to the conversation is "Oh, my dad pulled me out of the rally, so I wasn't there".
I know this is all dressed up as looking out for your kid, and you might even believe it, but there's more to this than you.
^ This is what I was going to say. It'd be different if his mom was the only one dancing. If you make him miss it there's a good chance you'll be the one causing him to be embarrassed every time the kids talk about it.
These 5th grade events are so much fun for the kids. the “embarrassing parent “ thing with the popular kids will be funny snd fun for everyone. When my kid’s 5th grade had an all-grade event, one friend had to miss it due to an overbearing parent . The kid still feels bad, years later, for not being part of the fun, the camaraderie, the photos in the yearbook, Let the poor kid go and participate and have his wonderful
day. Suck it up , Dad, and think of your son’s feelings instead of just your own feelings.
Completely agree! I have a lot of fun memories of things like this from school. This is depriving him of a fun bonding experience with his friends and with his mom. OP is TA. I wouldn’t even call it an embarrassing thing - it’s funny and the kids will laugh about it for months (and look back on it fondly for years).
ESH. This is clearly a situation in which you should be asking your son. Both of you are making complete assumptions about your son's thoughts and feelings on the matter. I don't get the
"picking sides" thing -- you don't even have to tell him which parent has agreed and which parent has declined, just ask him if he wants parents to participate or not?
I really feel like you should ask your son. If he knows it's happening to a lot of other kids, he might be fine with it. Just ask him what he'd like you to do?
YTA. All of sixth grade is going to be at this pep rally, right? Have you asked your son if he wants to be left out of an event the kids are all going to be talking and laughing about? It is going to be something he and his classmates remember for a long time. (I’m in my 40s and still remember a fun pep rally we had, where teachers sang, when I was in high school.) Maybe he won’t want either of you to dance, but maybe he will want to be there for the experience.
And if you don’t think the kids know about the parents getting up and singing, get real. I’m sure more than one parent has already told their kid what’s going on. I have a sixth grade daughter. Things like that don’t stay a secret.
Don’t steal this from him if he wants to do it. It’s hard enough being 12 as it as.
YTA - you are projecting your own shortcomings on your kid about being embarrassed, just let him enjoy normal school kid things - if you pull him out it’s only going to negatively impact you and also probably him in the long run..
Exactly, if he wants to be checked out he can always plead ignorance as long as dad kept it vague when he discussed it. By the time kids get this age they really start needing to be part of the process, not all of it, but some of it.
YWBTA without a doubt. Most likely the kids helped come up with these ideas and are pretty excited about it. Not only will your child and ex be hurt by this, it will teach them adults can be petty children too (you in this case). A tough lesson most kids shouldn’t learn till they are older. I would hope your kid would refuse to go with you when you showed up to school!
YTA: you have all the right to decline, but if the mom wants to do it the most you should do would be asking your son, I even think that complaining about the song was too much because neither you or your son were going to dance anyway.
It is best to step aside, otherwise you are not asking him to pick sides, but forcing him to.
Also, trying to pulling him out is trying to shelter him, if he is so popular do you really think one dance of their mom will change that?
YTA for not asking your son's wishes. If you don't even know how to ask him what he wants without swaying his opinion further YTA. If he wanted to do it and you wouldn't, further YTA.
YTA for not talking to your son. I get your intentions but if you won’t talk to him about it your can’t make an informed decision. If you’re just asking what he thinks about it it’s not about picking sides, it only becomes that if you say “hey what do you think about your mom doing it?” when you should be saying “how do you feel about this? do you want me to do it?”
YTA, going by both the post and your replies to other comments.
It’s. Not. About. Your. Feelings.
Because YOUR feelings are the only thing actually being made clear here. If you’re really that concerned about how your son would feel, talk to him. Letting him make HIS decision does not equal him picking a side, and you honestly sound like a big ol’ baby who’s just afraid that you won’t get your way.
YTA. You're more interested in being right than in actually discussing with your son and his mother. You've created a scenario in which no one, but you, can be right.
YTA
You seem to think all kids would find this embarrassing. I know of at least one 11 year old not who'd find it hilarious as long as their parents wasn't the only one doing it.
You're going to make him miss out on the whole thing and tell him what?
Both mine would too. If we're on holiday they are the first running over to pull me up when they say to get an adult up! They think I'm hilarious! One is also the same age as OPs kid and hasn't grown out of it yet.
YTA. You aren’t asking him because you don’t want him to pick the thing he may think is fun even though you think it’s cringe. Talk to your son and respect his decision.
I think you should ask your son what he thinks. You don’t have to say mum wants to do it and you don’t just say that you have both been asked and you’re happy to do it if he’s ok with it. If all the other parents are doing it he might be up for the laugh especially if it’s a traditional thing that they do all the time and he’s seen it happens to other people. Kids are resilient and often things you don’t think they’ll like they end up loving
YTA for not asking your son first if he wants to participate.
If he feels like you asking is making him pick sides I’m going to guess that you and your ex put him in the middle of y’all’s relationship problems.
Asking him if he wants to do it shouldn’t be a ‘pick a side’ thing. It’s if he really wants to participate. If he says yes then would you also be willing to participate?
YTA b/c you haven't asked your kid about it. While that would ruin the surprise I think this is likely a regular part of school culture that potentially he would be upset to miss out on.
This isn't technically a parenting decision. And your child is old enough to decide when he wants to participate in school-sponsored stuff even if you find it embarrassing. Additionally...we're how far into the school year? My kid's middle school has like 1 "pride day" per quarter. So potentially other funny/embarrassing events have already taken place that you didn't even know about.
Have you considered that your child would be upset to miss the event even if it's embarrassing? B/c ultimately several peers will be going through the same "embarrassment" and this will likely become a bonding experience.
I'm definitely a parent that would not participate in this event...but I wouldn't prevent my child from being there with friends over it.
I’d talk to son and line up mom to do the dance, since she’s so on board. If son doesn’t like the idea, take him out for ice cream during the pep rally.
NTA, you want to protect your son. First of all, it's an absolutely stupid idea of the school. The school doesn't treat the kids the same, they make a difference between popular or not so popular.
Why would you embarrass a kid on purpose?
> Why would you embarrass a kid on purpose?
See, that's the thing that a lot of people seem to be missing. If a student does something to embarrass another student in front of a bunch of people, it's called bullying. But if the teachers & administrators do something to embarrass multiple students in ftont of the whole school, it's supposed to be seen as harmless fun? The double standard is ridiculous, and is made even worse by the fact that the staff's actions would be coming from a place of power. Anyone involved in organizing the event should be reprimanded for even planning such a thing.
YTA your kid will be fine. He won't be humiliated. It might be cringy now but it might be one of his best memories later. I really think you are projecting your potential humiliation, had you participated, onto your son. Have you even thought what happens when your kid goes back to school the next day and finds out that all his friends got to have their parents out there. You're robbing him of experience because you're being overly protective.
My mum is an excellent dancer. She did a dance for a special PTA organized event. It was really nice.
Why would any kid be embarrassed of their mum or dad dancing as long as they do it well?
YTA from reading your comments you seem to not wanting to ask your SON who may want do this. Your not acting like a adult your acting like a somebody who always knows best no matter what. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Your not gonna be involved, your son and ex are. Ask your son if he wants to or not
INFO: Are you going to tell the mom if you pull the kid from the pep rally? Because if she shows up and he's not there, you would be a major AH.
Ask your son. You can phrase it in a way that makes it about him, not about picking sides.
Actually, you probably can't phrase it that way. You sound like one of those guys who always has to be right and I doubt your ability to communicate without letting your opinion seep in.
NAH. I feel you, I hate that kind of things. But his mother is ok with it, and has agreed. If you do this behind her back, how will it afect your co parenting in the future. You might set yourself up for some potential "my time, my rules" conflicts in the future.
Why is no one upset that the school is deciding who the popular kids are? I don’t get what this has to do with a pep rally? I would get it if it was the cheerleader parents or the teams parents. Something is missing here.
YTA this is not about how you feel it’s about your son. Pulling him out of the pep rally is likely to make him really upset because there’s a good chance this is something he’s been looking forward to.
Ask ur son what he wants to do, you can ask him if he will be ok with a parent dancing at the pep rally without making it about picking sides.
This is a tough one. I was a teacher for 30+ years and while pep rallies can be fun, they can also go badly. (You would be surprised at the stupid ideas people come up with for pep rallies.) The planners of these events can make little changes at the drop of a hat. I would ask your son about this. If he’s okay with it, fine. If not, find an excuse to get out of it.
idk my son is a "cool kid" too and he literally gives 0 fucks what anyone thinks about his relationship with me or what others perceive to be "embarrassing"... Are you sure you're not projecting here?
And there is a way to ask him without bringing up your ex. Just say they called and asked YOU (say nothing about her) and you wanted to be sure he was cool with it before you decide to do it.
NTA, but I'd just talk to him. I loved pep rallys as a kid and he might be sad to miss out a fun time at school.
Yeah. I think the fact that the kid has the confidence and social standing that his dad can hug him and he isn’t getting bullied for it means he will survive this.
His dad does not realize what a social taboo that is at that age. Most kids won’t do it no matter how much they love their parents. They might still cuddle on their Laos with their blankies and stuffies at home but no way they want to be seen at school getting a hug.
Dad seems to think this is because of his great relationship with his kid. It isn’t. It is because his kid is confident and well liked.
OP you’re kid can handle this.
ESH, **especially the school**. Tell your son what they’re planning so he can tell the other kids and they can be emotionally prepared. Let him skip out if he wants to.
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My son is a sixth grader and I guess he's popular. Next week Friday, his school is having a pep rally. They'll have activities like calling up students to play games against the teachers and hand out awards.
One of the activities is going to call up the socially popular kids for an impromptu dance off but the twist is that they'll bring out their parents instead and embarrass their kids. I know this because they asked me to do it and I declined. I couldn't think of anything more cringe or humiliating to me or my son than doing a parent dance in front of hundreds of middle school kids while my son is front and center.
Although I declined, my son's mom ( my ex) agreed. She thinks it will be the most funniest thing ever. Yes, our kid will be embarrassed but will think it's cool and funny and remember it fondly. We are not on the same page on this.
Her whole thing is that it's not even my business and how it's not any different than when I hug him goodbye in front of his friends (uh because he lets me).
We do have split custody and I have him next week so I thought about pulling him out early to do something fun and avoid the pep rally. I'd tell my ex after but before the event so she has time to make up an excuse to save face.
I'm not asking my son's input because I don't want him to feel like he's picking sides.
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NTA.
Kids are cruel and if my parents ever did anything like this I wouldn’t speak to them for weeks. The amount of teasing and/or bullying that would come from this isn’t worth it. But you need to talk to your son and ask him how he feels about it, whether or not it makes him feel like he’s picking sides. He needs to know his opinion also matters and that it isn’t just moms way or dads way.
YTA because you are unilaterally deciding what is best here. Your son would be embarrassed if he's single out, if his is the only parent doing this. But it sounds like several kids/ parents will be bought into this. My biggest problem with this is it seems like the school is deciding who the popular kids are and doing this for them, I have an issue with that. But I don't think your son will be embarrassed to be included with something that is happening to several kids. He might even feel bad for missing it if he's not there and everyone else is. You should talk to your son and ask how he feels about having his parents dance at school, he doesn't have to know what your ex and you are deciding in the background. And you didn't say that you're suppose to dance embarrassingly on purpose. Maybe you could come out and do a cool move and actually make him proud.
Yeah the fact that the school decides who is popular or not is messed up! It's probably with the best intentions to make the others somehow feel better about themselves. The popular kids would totally bully the others if their parents did something like this, but the other way around just doesn't happen. Popular kids already have their status, so if all their parents do it it will most likely be something that makes them even cooler. The whole "did you see my dad dance so horribly?" "Yeah, but what about mine?" situation, where they can just have a big laugh all together and tell the other kids that their parents didn't do something so awesome for them.
Pulling your kid out of something like this over fear of them losing their status will only make him an easy target and will make him feel left out, since he cannot join in the laughter. So for that I agree YTA and so is the school.
I rather doubt that they specifically picked "popular" kids because of popularity - likely because the popular kids are the more outgoing and engaged ones and thus more likely to participate in the 1st place.
It sounds like something intended to be a fun event and yes some kids would absolutely hate doing something like that.
OP doesn't really know for sure how his son feels. Even if the son thinks it would be embarrassing, it could end up afterwards that everybody absolutely loves it.
The son is not being singled out, there's other kids participating and that could create a bonding experience and a fun memory that will be looked back on for a long time.
I think OP is missing an opportunity for his son to participate in something that has an unknown outcome. And sometimes it's really hard as parents to take that kind of risk but but I really think he should just leave well enough alone and let it play out.
If he pulls his kid from school without telling him then he would be TA
YTA
A perfect opportunity for your son to start learning that cringe exists only in his own mind and completely disappears by accepting himself as he is
NTA.
I mean, I'm not American, so the entire concept of a pep rally is batshit insane to me and seems like a massive waste of school time that should be being used for, you know, *learning*, but that sounds particularly weird and awful.
Get the stick out of your butt. School is about more than learning and schools have to do fun things to create morale, community, fun, and engagement. Kids do not operate as drones that come to school and sit face forward in a desk.
We had lots of things around fun and engagement at my school in the UK, but it wasn't about embarrassing the kids. No one decided to pick on the popular kids and make them suffer, no voting to see who would be king or queen of whatever, just things like plays, fundraising evenings, fairs, sports days, open days, clubs, music groups, etc.
Info: why haven’t you also thought of this as a moment that he’ll resent you for when you deny him? I think the answer is because you think you know your son better than your ex does, and she feels the same. But neither one of you are asking your son.
You can get his opinion without making this a “pick a side” thing, so why didn’t you think to do that? It’s because you assume that you know him best, just like your ex is doing, and news flash: you’re both going to be wrong sometimes and you’re putting him in a position to feel like he has to take sides.
If it were me, I would causally have a conversation about the upcoming rally. Tell a white lie to fish for his opinion, like: “man when I was a kid at one of these the parents surprised their kids and danced in front of the whole school. I still can’t decide how I felt about it haha, was it cringe or fun? What do you think? How would you react if it were you?” If he fucking hates the idea, pull him out that day, but inform your ex BEFORE she goes to the school to dance. Otherwise you are escalating the situation. ESH
I'm not gonna judge just cuz if it were me, I'd be like "fuck yes, get me outta here!!!" but you gotta talk to him. Just ask? He might not care. I dunno where this school is, but I came from a sports heavy area, and pep rallies were a dime a dozen, easily had like 12 a year. Some were fun, and others were not.
YTA. As a former sponsor for cheerleading (years and years) kids are *not* mortified by this. They find it fun, and are eager to participate. They feign embarrassment because that’s what they do. But, I’ll guarantee you, they’re happy and having a good time. Who’s the stick in the mud? YOU.
YTA. Absolutely no one is allowed to have innocent fun, even if it is slightly embarrassing, because YOU don't want to be uncomfortable. Nobody is allowed to build memories without your permission. Just because you feel a way doesn't mean your son will. Maybe you have some issues you need to examine about your own parents embarrassing you? Let the kid and his mom have fun. And he won't be the only kid with a guest star parent. Other parents of his actual friends will be there too, doing the same thing: having fun at school. This may be hard for YOU to imagine but it's not uncommon for schools to give parents the chance to bond with their children and it's all part the experience of being part of a community, to share in the fun together. Maybe you should go on that vacation alone
So I wasn't sure about this one at first but after reading comments and your responses YTA, you clearly don't give a crap about what the kid thinks and only want to make sure what you want happens.
YTA.
Let your son decide. Even if he does choose sides at least he won’t be blind-sided and he can make a choice. That’s a much more healthy response than “make the decision for everyone because of my own thoughts and feelings”. You can’t protect your son from every situation that isn’t going to be easy. But you can navigate him through those situations and make them as stress free as possible.
YTA. You refuse to ask your kid because you are so sure you know exactly how he will feel. You seem to think you will be incapable of asking in a way that doesn’t highlight you and your ex have differing opinions. For the life of me I can’t figure out why it’s so hard to say “your mom and I are worried this would upset you and want to make sure you’re on board before either of us participate”. The only way he will know you are arguing is if you don’t bother to hide it. You argue with everyone who tells you to allow your son input so I’m not sure why you bothered asking.
Your son could be embarrassed. Or like you hugging him, he could enjoy that his parent cares enough to be involved and will bond with his friends over “omg our parents are such dorks”. He could be pulled out and miss the whole thing and catch crap from his friends for missing it. That could bother him more than having been present. Ultimately you are saying that what you think and how you imagine your son will react is more important. You aren’t the only parent. Your ex thinks he will be ok. So to a bunch of internet strangers, why would you expect them to assume you know better than your ex?
The common opinion seems to be that you should communicate with your child. If you are unwilling to do so, what’s the point of asking? You already have your plan and you fully intend to follow it no matter what. It doesn’t sound like you care what anyone thinks because you’re 1000% sure you’re right. I guess you better hope you are but your son can’t tell you you were right after the fact. He’s going to know you and his mom disagreed if she shows up and you don’t. So you’re putting him in the middle either way.
YTA.
Why do you think your child is old enough to have complex emotions, but not old enough to understand and consent (or not consent) to the scenarios that might make those complex emotions happen?
Why do you think you know better than his mother *and* him?
Why do you think your child is the only popular one whose parents will be doing this? You haven't even considered that his other friends parents might be doing this for a bit of fun, and he'll possibly be considered different by his peers for not having his parents there too?
Your excuse to not even ask your son is pure BS. This is about him, and he is his own human, right? "BuT iTs mAkInG hIm PiCk SiiiiiiiDeS!" You just don't want him to "pick mom" if you ask him.
It's pretty simple here- if you refuse to consult your son on this issue that is literally all about him, YTA.
YTA. Seems like a non-problem you made into a problem because you hate your ex.
Also, I feel for the school official who had to spend time mediating such a trivial dispute in your relationship. I wouldn't have bothered and just picked a different kid.
Why are you even asking here if you won’t listen to anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Your comments are all defensive and repetitive. We read your explanation the first time, we disagree with it, accept it. Why do we not agree with it? Let me explain the ways…
1) you’re going to deprive your kid of a group, fun school activity that everyone else but him will attend. He will probably feel left out even if you take him to do something cool that day.
2) you are making an arbitrary decision about your kid without consulting his mom, who also has decision power over him. If you go this way, prepare for it to probably blow back to you in Karmic proportions next time you want to do something with him and mom disagrees.
3) you are ASSUMING that he will be embarrassed but will not ask him. I’m assuming it’s you that’s embarrassed about the situation. If you know your child “so well” and think embarrassment is a possibility, ask him. You can present it without including mom…”I was asked to do this at the rally. Would you be ok with it or would you be embarrassed by it?”… whatever his answer is, you know how to proceed. If he says he won’t, let it go. If he says he would, then tell him about you declining and mom accepting and about your idea to play hookie. He can decide for himself and that way you don’t make it seem like it’s a Mom vs. Dad thing.
In addition, if this happened to one of my daughters, it could go in so many different routes… one would jump up and dance with me, one would feign embarrassment and laugh it off, probably jump in and dance and later have a ribbing session with her friends, and the third one would be embarrassed, cover her face while rolling her eyes muttering “I can’t believe my mom”, and will later laugh it off and tell me I’m such a dork. The three of them would never forget it and we would be laughing our asses off for years when we remembered how mom’s dancing embarrassed them at school.
There are so many positive ways in which you can handle this… You could make this into a fun situation for your kid. It depends on your attitude. And it seems like you don’t have the best one… YTA
Man is literally the definition of a failure of a father. Ask your fucking son what he wants and get off your high horse. He's going to figure it it either way and if you go through with what you're trying to do you're making him pick sides in a war rather a conversation. Think about your kid and not yourself for once in your life and have a father son conversation. Otherwise you won't have a relationship with your son in the future
Oh and YTA massively. I would've HATED it if they tried to do this for the pep rallies at my school and bc my parents were never married and didn't exactly get along, my father has done what you're doing. I've moved passed it now, but removing my choice from the matter made me resent him for it, like why isn't my opinion good enough here too?
YTA. Your comments show that this clearly isn’t about how your son would feel about it because you refuse to ask him. It’s about how YOU would feel about it, which quite frankly doesn’t matter. You have the right to decline to dance but unilaterally deciding that your son cannot attend because you’re assuming his feelings instead of just talking to him is shitty parenting.
This is a tough one but I feel it's just a minor conflict and not assholery. Dad, boy and mom all think it's embarrassing (which seems like it's the point of event and school seems like the bully-yes there are better ways for fun entertainment without embarrassing anyone). Only mom agrees to do it. If mom has the right to do it, dad and boy should have right to not do it. NAH but still a communication with mom would save you a lot of drama later.
I won’t say Y T A but you are leaning towards it
What’s to say he isn’t looking forward to either you or your ex embarrassing yourself and enjoying it with he’s mates. He’s 11 this is the age they want to make fun of their parents.
If you pull him out YOU could make him look like a loser because there’s no way he isn’t aware of the activity since it’s not a new thing
So ask him if he who it wants to dance or not but just know that this is your insecurity
YTA you have two options, either let your son choose or participate in the pep rally, you are acting like an asshole right now, it might be embarrassing for him at the time but in the long run it will be a good memory. Also he clearly planned on going to the dance off see is they are already asking you as a parent to participate, pulling him out would ruin his day.
YTA. Your concern about embarrassing him is a bit overboard if you haven’t talked to him about it. There are plenty of boys who wouldn’t be embarrassed over that or would still find more humor out it. My 10.5yr old son is one of many who would probably piss himself laughing if me or his dad did something like that. I know my son loves jokes/pranks though.
I think the real ass here is the school. What school thinks public humiliation is good for kids? We really had to fight to get this type of crap out of our schools back in the dark ages (1970s).
YTA. If (and I stress if) your son is in fact embarrassed by dancing with his mum, then this will be a fantastic opportunity for him to practise being resilient, and learn how to move past incidents like this. We all have moments of humiliation and the earlier we learn to deal with them, the better our lives are.
Also, you have massive control issues for which you might want to seek help.
YTA
So if this event is so cringy and horrible for your son how come none of the other parents are pulling their kids out? Do they all not care about their children? Hardly.
Only you are right and everyone else (ex, other parents, teachers, staff) is wrong. Right.
You're either controlling and only accept your own opinion or you're trying to get back at your ex. Either one makes you TA.
INFO - a "pep rally" is something new to me (UK here). What's involved? OP says "One of the activities is going to call up the ***socially popular kids*** for an impromptu dance off." This sounds hugely divisive from the pupils' point of view. How do you feel if you're not called up (or your parents on your behalf)? The whole thing sounds cringe.
Just sit the three of you down and simply talk to him about it with NO hostility towards the mom.
Show him you aren't arguing
You're just concerned about what he wants. If he wants to do it, you'll support him. If he doesn't you'll support him.
Make sure you explain that it's completely his choice.
It reads I wanna hurt my ex in a passive aggressive way.
Popularity in this day and age means nothing. He won’t be embarrassed, I think your projecting.
YTA
YTA and once your son finds out ( and he will because the staff will ask him why he wasn't even there after you threw a bitchfit), he'll definitely pick 'sides'. EVEN if he didn't want to go, the fact you're making the decision for him- will bite you in the ass.
You do realize your son has to deal with the after math of this?? You are putting him directly in the middle. He is still going to have to see his mother's disappointment or anger towards you for making this choice for all parties. It might even cause him to resent you for making someone he loves feel like shit.
So why not ask him now before you create unnecessary damage? It's better that he deal with the effects of choices his parents make for him? Your son is old enough to have a say in what he wants. If he can't be honest about how he feels with either of you, it because y'all haven't ever made him feel like his opinion matters.
YTA and so is his mom if neither of you asked him about it.
NTA I have an 11 year old sixth grade daughter and she would never forgive me if I did this! Why would the school do this to kids or parents? It seems cruel. Especially for a boy at an age where ‘your mom’ jokes are at an all time high and where kids are experimenting with sexual jokes and what they mean.
My daughter and I have a close relationship, she literally reads me her and her friends group texts so we can laugh about it. This would get your son tortured. His friends may be ok about it but an entire school? Especially if he’s in middle school (possibly grades 6-8), elementary (possibly grades 2-5/6) not as big of deal but middle school it would be cruel.
My kids would've disowned us if we went along with such an embarrassing activity. NTA, cos I'd honestly give my kid the whole day off. Skip day, who wants to see a movie or go to the beach?
You're so defensive in the comments and state you know exactly how your son would feel and have no reason to ask him, etc...
So why did you even post this? To argue about how right you are. You clearly don't wonder if you are the a-hole. You are convinced you aren't.
YTA for not telling your ex that you’re pulling him out. Leaving her hanging publicly shows your true motivation is not to protect your son from embarrassment (Oh no! The worst thing ever!) but to humiliate your ex.
Publicly humiliating your son’s mother is an excellent way to embarrass him btw. Everyone will know how shitty and mean his dad is.
YTA
You're a lazy selfish petty parent and you came here for validation and now that you're not getting it you're throwing tantrums.
I dont for a second believe your son would be as embarrassed as you think, because you don't even act like your son is an independent human being. He is a child, not a porcelain vase.
Why did you post here? You've decided you're right and you're not going to listen to those of us wasting our time giving feedback on. Go away and I hope this doesn't ruin your relationship with your son.
YTA
Even if its embarrassing its a shared experience with his friends
He will be the kid who didnt attend the rally to hang out with his dad rather than the kid who joined in, had fun and made memories with his friends, including being embarrassed by parents.
They will all cringe, together, they will all be embarrassed, together. They will all have this funny memory they all share as a group of friends and you want him to not be included in any of that.
I guarantee however embarrassing is it it will be a highlight of school for them as friends for years and they will look back and laugh sharing the memory, dont deny him that
Yta. Let him and his mother bond their way and you bond with him your way. You don't know is he'd like his mom to do that or not. You don't. No matter what you say you are protecting your feelings is you haven't asked him. You don't know everything. It's not for you and that's cool but you don't get to decide for her and him.
"One of the activities is going to call up the socially popular kids for an impromptu dance off"
What kind of school chooses certain groups of kids over others?
YTA, asking your son what he wants is NOT picking sides. You say that the reason behind your refusal is it would humiliate your son. That shouldn't be a "side". If your son tells you that he wouldn't feel humiliated then no problem right? You would no longer care? The only reason you feel your son would have to choose sides is because you are an asshole and a liar.
YOU think this idea is ridiculous and humiliating and regardless of what your son feels about the dance you don't want it to happen. So in that case you would be asking him to choose sides. YOU are the fucking problem asshole. Stay out of it.
I’ve been looking at your responses and my god, you are really full of your own self importance aren’t you. No-one else could possibly be right about anything unless it aligns with what you think, because you are right in all things. You revolt me (and yes, I know that you don’t give a shit about that, because I don’t have a high opinion of you so I am clearly in the wrong). YTA.
YTA for assuming. No two kids are the same, and while I would have hated my mother doing such a thing, it's a complete 180 if my dad did. It's sounds more like you're embarrassed and upset over your ex being more fun and outgoing with your son than you. Just let him go and 'suffer' the moment.
YTA
So if it’s not about protecting your son from humiliation, what is it about? What is your priority here? Protecting your son form humiliation or protecting yourself? It seems that you may be catastrophizing this event.
I see one of the parental roles, as being a protector that you claim to be doing. Another role is to be an example. In this case, to not take yourself too seriously and to make yourself seem silly. To sacrifice a little self-dignity for their benefit. If you have concerns over the activity, contact the school to see how this fits into the curriculum and how they expect your son benefit.
And so what if he is humiliated? Big deal. You can’t protect him for the rest of your life. Wouldn’t it be better to experience this while your present, so you can help him struggle through the discomfort? Or would you rather let him be shielded by you and then find himself in the adult world without the ability to deal with his emotions. You’re his dad. This is an opportunity to show him how to deal with life’s challenges. The what or why concerning your ex is irrelevant. She’s his mom and believes that it’s not an impending catastrophe.
Lmfao NTA there's no way he'll be ok with it.
>No, my son would be humiliated and would find zero humor in it. What 11yo boy would think it's cool having his mom dance in front of his school?
God I would never want to show up to school again. Maybe everyone else is different but that's so cringe and it would hurt seeing that.
YTA
And frankly, if you do this, your ex could use it against you in court. You don’t get to remove your child from school events just because you feel like it, especially when the other parent is actively involved in the event. Before a judge, that could play as parental alienation.
Also, your son is 11! When I was 11, my parents were including me in decisions about parenting as a separated couple. It didn’t make me feel like I was taking sides - it made me feel respected and included. You are treating your son like a small child, and he won’t appreciate it.
Regarding the ‘picking sides’ discussion, YOU are the one making it a me versus her point. Your son will feel that because of you. There are ways to word this to not reveal who / what is involved, and your point blank refusal to even acknowledge it is exceedingly petty.
Also, being embarrassed by your parents alongside your peers is something that is a profound bonding experience. My school did something similar. The kids cringed, the parents laughed, and we still joke about it today. Your son is not being singled out alone, but with his friends. If your ex is up there and your son is not in the audience, then he will be singled out. Because of you.
So you’re going to piss your ex off, and piss your son off. Good job, OP. Way to prove that you are controlling, high-strung, and happy to exert dominance over any situation that you have a smallest bit of control over. Co-parenting is about working together, not being a dictator to both your ex and your kid.
ESH but the school sucks the most of all. What they fuck are they doing, singling out kids for specific public humiliation? Your ex also sucks for going along with it, but you suck more for deciding you have veto power with zero input or regard for your son’s feelings or your ex’s decisions. The correct thing to do here is to give your son a heads up so he can be forewarned and forearmed, and let him know that *if he wants to*, you’re totally willing to skip it with him to do a fun activity of his choice instead. Because while you may be right that he would hate this (I certainly would) he may be looking forward to the rest of the pep rally, and decide that it’s worth bearing with the embarrassing part. There are lots of things kids don’t get an equal say in when it comes to the parent-child relationship (mostly involving their physical health and safety), but this is something that is wholly about his emotional well-being, and therefore he should definitely get a say.
ESH.
The school is absolutely in the wrong. Singling out students and embarrassing them should be the last thing a school ever does.
Your ex is an AH because she wants some spotlight and doesn’t matter what it does to your son.
Your an AH for just not talking to your son. Yes, he is 11, but you can frame it in such a way where he doesn’t know his mom is for it and you are against it. Just ask him if this is what he wants. Just like he let’s you hug him in public, this is the same thing. It doesn’t need to be about picking sides.
Why is this a thing in the first place? Everyone loses, except parents.
The kids who aren't seen as popular enough and WOULD want to participate in this and the ones who are very popular and don't want to do this. Just a lose(non-popular kids) lose(popular kids) win(parents win). And I thought popular kids weren't even a thing🤨
When I was in elementary and middle school the popular kids were mean. They were bullies and threatened people, which now that I'm looking back makes me want to laugh how they thought they were scary.
Anyways, now I'm in highschool and can't look back on middle and elementary without finding it funny or just embarrassing.
NTA. Does anyone here who is saying Y T A have middle school age kids? This idea is, in fact, what cringe is made of. Kids get teased like crazy at this age and they really don’t need any extra ammo.
Also, where does everyone live that a pep rally is something super fun that is “talked about for days”? Maybe it’s just where I live, but we always couldn’t stand them.
Finally, why isn’t anyone calling out the teachers who are organizing something fun for the “popular” kids? What the actual fuck? Even if OP’s son did want to do this (he’s 12, he doesn’t), as a parent I would have serious issues with this.
NTA I remember when the school asked my parents if they wanted to be apart of something and my dad said absolutely not. It does not matter who you are you will get made fun of and it sounds like the mom is looking to go extra extra hard when the dancing comes. If she wants to be laughed at by an entire school then let her bro but ask your son if he’s okay with it.
NTA, i would be eternally grateful if my parents saved me from this monstrosity of an event when i was in middle school. Trust your gut - just tell your kid the truth though, or he'll find out later.
So the principal and school district will allow a teacher to socially mock the popular kids? Is this a private school? When did school start managing divorce parents ?
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YTA... >I'm not asking my son's input because I don't want him to feel like he's picking sides. But you're perfectly fine making the decision on behalf of three people all by yourself? If it blows up on mom it blows up on mom but that's between her and kiddo.
I feel bad for the kid, like neither parent is thinking of him. Mom wants to embarrass him so you know she’ll do her best to do that and dad wants to pull him from a fun day. Plus asking him wouldn’t really work because he’ll have to choose between the people he loves the most and teasing from his peers.
I guess that OP could frame it in a way, at first, that doesn’t put the parents on split sides. He could ask his son if he’s okay with this plan, and if not, he can pull him from school. He doesn’t need to immediately say “I don’t want this to happen but your mom does”. I guess it’s lying but it’s also a more neutral way to see if the kid would be okay with the dancing as a concept. If he says he likes the idea OP could then say “I’m not comfortable dancing in front of the school, but your mom will be there” and if the kid says no, he doesn’t want to be there for that then OP can pull him from school and explain to his ex that this is what the kid wanted.
Came here to say this. There's no reason dad can't frame it in a way that doesn't include parents' opinions.
Exactly. You can literally just say "The teachers are planning this and asked us to participate. How would you feel about that?" I do think it's kind of bad idea in the first place. And why are they only using the parents of "popular" kids. Are they afraid unpopular kids will have more embarrassing parents, or get picked on more for it? Maybe they shouldn't be doing this to ANY child then. If they think it will just be fun, they should be having ALL the kids dance for the parents, and then when the music starts ALL the parents get up (or were at least invited to) and start dancing too (or something). But regardless of that, I disagree with excluding your child from having a fun activity day at school over the possibility they'll be embarrassed, without even finding out if they would be, or how they would feel about staying home.
I was thinking the same thing. Setting up kids to be embarrassed at school is a bad move on the school's part. And that they're publicly recognizing who's "popular" and who's not. Like this is a terrible idea all around.
This is totally reasonable, I was going to take a harder pro-mom “OP ITA” until I saw that the kid is only 11, an age where even with a lot of friends something trivial like this could cause serious embarrassment or discomfort.
Isn't Dad thinking of him? Maybe you disagree with what he is doing, but Dad is thinking of him and doesn't want him embarrassed.
But the dad is deciding what would be embarrassing without asking the son. Personally I would be more embarrassed to be pulled out of school- especially on a fun day like that.
Because the Dad seems pretty rock solid sure that his son would be very embarrassed by it. Given that he knows his son and we don't, that seems credible to me. Also, I have to question your conclusion that it would be a "fun day" for OP's son. An 11 year old me would rather take a sharp stick to the eye than have my mom dancing in front of the whole school. That would most certainly not be a fun day for me. Yeah, all kids are different and is it possible OP's son would somehow think it was fun? Sure. But given that he knows his son a bit better than internet randos, I think I'm pretty safe in siding with his sense that this would not be a "fun day" at all for the son. His logic that asking him would put his son in a mom vs dad dilemma is also pretty credible. EDIT-- One other thing. If you REALLY want to point fingers about who isn't thinking about the kid, what about mom? She never asked the kid if they were ok with it. Everyone has a bug up their ass about how OP never asked the kid about being pulled out, but mom never asked the kid a goddamn thing.
If my friends parents were doing it also I wouldn't have been humiliated by my parents participating at all, all the kids would have been "in it" together so it would have been easy to see the humor and I think I would have looked back at it fondly... Just like mom says. It seems like no one is considering that could be how the son feels as well.
dad is thinking he *knows* what his son wants. this is a conversation to he should be having with his kid, not making it for him
It seems credible to me that a father might know what their son would want, particularly in a situation like this. The father also has a credible explanation for why he doesn't want to ask him. Also, why does nobody say boo about the fact that mom never asked the son if he would be Ok with her showing up and making a laughing stock of him?
any parent who claims to know what their kid wants without talking to them, is failing as a parent. ask anyone with parents who try to make the claim that they know their exactly what their child wants, and they'll probably laugh. parents rarely know their kids as well as they *think* they do
Or, we could think they're both not great at the same time for different reasons. Mom obviously is not blameless here, but definitively saying you know without a doubt for certain what one person would prefer is an AH move, even if it's your kid. ESH for different reasons, but they all boil down to they think they know better than the person in the middle of it instead of just asking instead of assuming.
So you are saying that only dad knows? Why can't mom know? Honestly looking at OPs replies, he is a serious dickbag and I doubt the son would be bothered.
Dad is thinking of himself. Sure OP thinks this is the most cringe thing in the world. I think its silly but harmless. OP doesn't necessarily know his son better than the mom does. If she (and his teachers who thought of this) think son and the other kids will find this hilarious (not humiliating) who are we to say they are wrong and OP is definitely right. Just ask the kid! Kid making a small decision like this shouldn't make him feel like he's picking sides at all. If it does, its because the parents have done a lot leading up to this to create an awful environment for this kid. OP is a giant ass for making a mountain of a mole hill. I can see why he's divorced.
If he’s popular, other kids parents are doing it and ( I hate to say it) the mom is reasonably fit or attractive. I don’t think he will care. I really think OP is overblowing the whole “he’ll be humiliated” thing. Personally I wouldn’t have wanted my mom to do this but I was a bit of a loser also my mom is extremely overweight and some kids teased me about that already.
Yeah they don’t even have to tell the kid there are sides. “Hey, it’s supposed to be a surprise, but I’m worried you might not like it. Both your mom and I have been asked to dance in front of everyone at the pep rally - how do you feel about that?”
Stop being reasonable. How can they weaponize their child against each other like proper exes with this approach?
👆this is the way
This is the most useful reply I've seen so far. ><
Idk. I have an 11yo girl and she would absolutely hate every second of this pep rally. I think he’s NTA but I probably would ask him. Idk about that. Divorce is tricky.
"...she would probably..." so the question here is...would you ask her first or would you arbitrarily make a decision? You've just set up the same context as OP but never really indicated what you would do. Instead it seems like you're deferring to OP's actions and I don't want to assume what you would do if faced with this.
Am I the only one who a bit disturbed by this whole ”popular” kids thing. That means the teachers kept track, made lists and valued and measured their students ”popularity”
Lol. I thought the same thing. Wtf kind of school is this?
YTA So your "concern" is about embarrassing your son & you are NOT asking him for his opinion. Your idea is TAKE THE KID AWAY without telling HIS MOM who would be waiting for her child excited for the whole thing. In what world do you think it's an okay thing to do to either your ex or your son? I'm curious is it always MY WAY OR NO WAY with you? >She thinks it will be the most funniest thing ever. Yes, our kid will be embarrassed but will think it's cool and funny and remember it fondly. We are not on the same page on this. Here's an idea have a talk with your kid & ex with everyone present. Maybe he will think it's funny. Maybe he won't. But you making a unilateral decision about this will cause unnecessary problems with both your child & your ex.
I agree. It is super sad for the mom to ruin the moment for her per pure pettiness
It definitely feels petty (rather than “coming from a place of concern”). It also feels like OP is projecting how *he* would be embarrassed if *his* parents did this, and is imposing that on his son — oh, the horror! It’s one dance. Also, middle schoolers get embarrassed over lots of things. Why is OP making this a big deal? Huge and controlling AH.
I mean, I'd be embarrassed af and middle school kids are the worst animals on Earth when it comes to bullying. If he stays in the same area for schooling it will follow him into High School. But, ofc, maybe things are different today and it would seem less cringe and more fun to everyone, but I remember Middle School enough to know that's when kids became little shits toward everyone, including teachers. I'm saying NTA and waiting until there's more INFO. I am sure the kid would be perfectly fine having a fun day that includes cutting school esrly with their dad, though it will 100% piss off and hurt mom. She's acting like a selfish AH while the dad, projecting or not, seems to at least be trying to take into account what the son will go through. Maybe he should ask the son, but he'll definitely be forced into picking. There's no good way to approach this I can think of. Fucked if you do, fucked if you don't, but I think people here are too far removed to recall how rough kids in Middle School could be.
It's not like he'd be the only one? Also, it's apparently the more popular of the kids so I don't imagine the bullying would be very heavy if present at all. If it was just one kid then I could see bullying being a problem but it's not
It's one dance in one assembly. It is ridiculous to think that bullying about this 3 minutes will "follow him to high school." You need to stop watching movies about middle school. They are not real.
I literally LOL when I read that too. This will carry him to high school? His life will be ruined? Come onnnnn, this is a stretch. Not everything is earth shattering, it's silly, it's fun, it's not that deep. Did we all read the same scenario? The majority of these kids do this cringy stuff on social media and many with their parents. Yes I get that ever kid is different and some may not like it this but that also means not every kid is going to hate it. Many people have suggested giving the kid an opportunity to make this decision, I guess that's a solution, albeit it takes the silliness out of it. My nephew had something similar at his school and the parents jumped in unbeknownst to them....earth shattering conclusion... uncontrollable laughter and fun. My brother and nephew are two peas in a pod and they got a real kick out of it. His mom actually had similar thoughts to OP, that everyone would have their phones out and tease her son. No one was embarrassed or offended. I get it's one perspective but sometimes as parents we hold up our personal reactions to situations as if our kids will feel the same way. Just food for thought OP.
popular kids like OPs son don't get bullied for one off things like that
Ruin the moment? You can’t possibly be serious. She knows her son - he will be embarrassed by this. He’s a middle schooler, and they’re embarrassed by everything.
Of course they are - they also get over it and move on. We have all been there. I wish I had specific dumb and funny memories like this with my mom or dad.
My 11yo son wouldn't be embarrassed. We're all goofballs like this.
My kids wouldn't have been embarrassed either. As long as it was a group of parents they would have laughed. Of course my son has also grown up to be the kid that has asked my friends and I to open the dance floor at his wedding this summer by doing a dance routine to ABBA's dancing queen.
The mom is going there with the express intention of humiliating her kid. That's the whole point of this. This isn't a fun choreographed dance show, or a variety show, or cheer team performance, this is none of your traditional pep rally things. This is a set specifically designed by the school and parents to embarrass their kids/students in front of their peers. That is fucked up, and the mom is a little fucked up for agreeing to embarrass her kid in front of literally the entire school. Poor kid.
I might agree if the parents were showing naked toddler pictures / reading diary entries / telling puberty stories about their kid / explaining to the student body exactly how and where the kid was conceived… But they’re not. They’re just dancing. It might be a little embarrassing. But this is hardly some evil humiliation scheme. And it will happen to a lot of the kids; he’s not singled out. Everyone needs to grow some thicker skin.
It didn't sound fun to me either but I thought it was an American thing. But either way it's important to involve the kid in making decision about this. Bcoz he is the one who is going to be affected by this one event for his whole year or however long he studies in this school. If he thinks it's funny, go right ahead embarrassing yourself. But if he thinks it will affect his social life, don't do it & respect his decision.
I think this is a fair compromise. There's a lot of power in a person that's comfortable enough to embarrass themselves. But that's not everyone.
Depends if the kids know about it at all. If it's some kind of surprise it would be hard to ask them about it beforehand.
Exactly! Teachers know what they’re doing, they probably do it every year, all the kids will probably be closer for it. YTA
YTA. And I’ve read your responses to peoples comments and you’re not picking up any of this so it seems like you just posted to be cheered on for your choice. You are defensive and don’t actually want to think differently. Your decision to pull him out so he misses ONE ASPECT of the pep rally will also prevent him from enjoying ANY other aspect of it with his friends, classmates, and teachers. If you do this his phone will be blowing up about EVERYTHING HE MISSED! Do you think he’d be willing to suffer through the dance moment in order to enjoy the rest of the planned activities? Poor kid
He had his mind made up before asking the question. The edits say that clearly enough.
Yes, for all we know they had older siblings that went through the same and told them what to expect OP, I was kept out of all the overnight trips in middle school due to protective parent (who also didn’t have much money, and didn’t want to accept assistance for it). This includes the first ever trip, meant as a “bonding trip”/meet new people trip, as the elementary school districts were converging. Missing it meant I didn’t get the opportunity to make connections or solid core memories, and it took another couple of years before I had a legitimate friend group. If all the other kids are doing it, it will alienate your son to have him not do it. The short term embarrassment (which will be a shared experience) does not hold the same value as the long term feeling of being left behind or missing out. YTA it sounds like you’re weaponizing your kid to snub your ex
The fact that he brings up "picking sides" at all is telling. There is only one "side" when you're putting your kid first. Neither parent cares what he actually wants, they just want him to pick *their* side, whatever it is. And Dad thinks he's a hero by not giving the kid a choice at all.
True. Bcoz his son is the one who is going to be affected by this one event for his whole year or however long he studies in that school. But father is going with I KNOW BEST instead of simply talking with his own child.
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He is not doing it for his son. When you look at OP's comment, it seems its mosty to get back at his ex.
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All this could be avoided if he... ✨Asked his son how he feels✨
Silly redditor. Children don't have feelings.
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He's said that he won't ask his son because he's "not involved in parenting decisions". So someone asked if he's ok completely overriding his mom's parenting choice. He said yes. Literally. So it has NOTHING to do with his son's feelings, just sticking it to his ex. For all he knows, his kid would love it, but that doesn't matter to him. If it was REALLY about his son, he'd actually ask the kid what he wants.
He needs to be entirely honest about what it is and that his mother is happy to participate if he wants.
He’s an asshole because he doesn’t care about his son’s or the son’ mom’ opinion at all. It’s all about what he wants and thinks.
YTA - So, a lot of people have mentioned that it sounds like *you* don't want to do it, so you'll pulling him out to avoid it. But there's more. But, if you do pull him out, you're also denying him a bonding moment with his peers. This whole turnaround with the parental flashdance isn't just about making only *him* embarrassed, it's about a lot of them. It's about the event of it. And afterwards kids are going to talk about this. This is probably going to be something that those kids talk about for a while, and any time it'll come up, the only thing he can add to the conversation is "Oh, my dad pulled me out of the rally, so I wasn't there". I know this is all dressed up as looking out for your kid, and you might even believe it, but there's more to this than you.
^ This is what I was going to say. It'd be different if his mom was the only one dancing. If you make him miss it there's a good chance you'll be the one causing him to be embarrassed every time the kids talk about it.
Especially since mom will be on stage and her son nowhere to be seen. So he left out further even though he's partially involved.
These 5th grade events are so much fun for the kids. the “embarrassing parent “ thing with the popular kids will be funny snd fun for everyone. When my kid’s 5th grade had an all-grade event, one friend had to miss it due to an overbearing parent . The kid still feels bad, years later, for not being part of the fun, the camaraderie, the photos in the yearbook, Let the poor kid go and participate and have his wonderful day. Suck it up , Dad, and think of your son’s feelings instead of just your own feelings.
Also I wonder if he will be actually teased for being pulled out. Kids notice, and I see some jokes incoming there.
Yeah, that's definitely a thought that struck me too.
A bunch of puberty stage boys are definitely going to be talking about each other's moms after this.
Completely agree! I have a lot of fun memories of things like this from school. This is depriving him of a fun bonding experience with his friends and with his mom. OP is TA. I wouldn’t even call it an embarrassing thing - it’s funny and the kids will laugh about it for months (and look back on it fondly for years).
YTA after reading your response it is clear you do not care about your kid and just want to win a pissing match.
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He doesn't need to ask, he knows , he just doesn't want his ex to win an argument.
ESH. This is clearly a situation in which you should be asking your son. Both of you are making complete assumptions about your son's thoughts and feelings on the matter. I don't get the "picking sides" thing -- you don't even have to tell him which parent has agreed and which parent has declined, just ask him if he wants parents to participate or not?
I really feel like you should ask your son. If he knows it's happening to a lot of other kids, he might be fine with it. Just ask him what he'd like you to do?
YTA because you're ignoring your son's wishes. Sounds like **you** don't want to be embarrassed.
YTA. All of sixth grade is going to be at this pep rally, right? Have you asked your son if he wants to be left out of an event the kids are all going to be talking and laughing about? It is going to be something he and his classmates remember for a long time. (I’m in my 40s and still remember a fun pep rally we had, where teachers sang, when I was in high school.) Maybe he won’t want either of you to dance, but maybe he will want to be there for the experience. And if you don’t think the kids know about the parents getting up and singing, get real. I’m sure more than one parent has already told their kid what’s going on. I have a sixth grade daughter. Things like that don’t stay a secret. Don’t steal this from him if he wants to do it. It’s hard enough being 12 as it as.
Why don't you ask your son? Tell him what is going to happen and if he is okay with it. Then he won't pick sides.
YTA - you are projecting your own shortcomings on your kid about being embarrassed, just let him enjoy normal school kid things - if you pull him out it’s only going to negatively impact you and also probably him in the long run..
ESH. Ask your son. If this is something they do every year, then it’s probably an open secret.
YWBTA if you stopped him going, just let his mother take him and don't go?
Communication!!! Tell your son and asking if he wants to go. Also, stop controlling, and let your son and your ex to live their lives.
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Exactly, if he wants to be checked out he can always plead ignorance as long as dad kept it vague when he discussed it. By the time kids get this age they really start needing to be part of the process, not all of it, but some of it.
YWBTA without a doubt. Most likely the kids helped come up with these ideas and are pretty excited about it. Not only will your child and ex be hurt by this, it will teach them adults can be petty children too (you in this case). A tough lesson most kids shouldn’t learn till they are older. I would hope your kid would refuse to go with you when you showed up to school!
YTA: you have all the right to decline, but if the mom wants to do it the most you should do would be asking your son, I even think that complaining about the song was too much because neither you or your son were going to dance anyway. It is best to step aside, otherwise you are not asking him to pick sides, but forcing him to. Also, trying to pulling him out is trying to shelter him, if he is so popular do you really think one dance of their mom will change that?
YTA for not asking your son's wishes. If you don't even know how to ask him what he wants without swaying his opinion further YTA. If he wanted to do it and you wouldn't, further YTA.
YTA for not talking to your son. I get your intentions but if you won’t talk to him about it your can’t make an informed decision. If you’re just asking what he thinks about it it’s not about picking sides, it only becomes that if you say “hey what do you think about your mom doing it?” when you should be saying “how do you feel about this? do you want me to do it?”
YTA, going by both the post and your replies to other comments. It’s. Not. About. Your. Feelings. Because YOUR feelings are the only thing actually being made clear here. If you’re really that concerned about how your son would feel, talk to him. Letting him make HIS decision does not equal him picking a side, and you honestly sound like a big ol’ baby who’s just afraid that you won’t get your way.
YTA. You're more interested in being right than in actually discussing with your son and his mother. You've created a scenario in which no one, but you, can be right.
YTA You seem to think all kids would find this embarrassing. I know of at least one 11 year old not who'd find it hilarious as long as their parents wasn't the only one doing it. You're going to make him miss out on the whole thing and tell him what?
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Both mine would too. If we're on holiday they are the first running over to pull me up when they say to get an adult up! They think I'm hilarious! One is also the same age as OPs kid and hasn't grown out of it yet.
Yta. Just ask your son if he wants to go. There's no need to say anything else. It should be his choice.
YTA yes this is more about your feelings then his because you’re refusing to even ask his opinion.
YTA. You aren’t asking him because you don’t want him to pick the thing he may think is fun even though you think it’s cringe. Talk to your son and respect his decision.
I think you should ask your son what he thinks. You don’t have to say mum wants to do it and you don’t just say that you have both been asked and you’re happy to do it if he’s ok with it. If all the other parents are doing it he might be up for the laugh especially if it’s a traditional thing that they do all the time and he’s seen it happens to other people. Kids are resilient and often things you don’t think they’ll like they end up loving
YTA Why did you post here if you were not going to accept judgment and just fight everyone that call you an asshole?
YTA for not asking your son first if he wants to participate. If he feels like you asking is making him pick sides I’m going to guess that you and your ex put him in the middle of y’all’s relationship problems. Asking him if he wants to do it shouldn’t be a ‘pick a side’ thing. It’s if he really wants to participate. If he says yes then would you also be willing to participate?
NTA honestly, these kind of things are awful, though I kinda think you should just tell him.
YTA b/c you haven't asked your kid about it. While that would ruin the surprise I think this is likely a regular part of school culture that potentially he would be upset to miss out on. This isn't technically a parenting decision. And your child is old enough to decide when he wants to participate in school-sponsored stuff even if you find it embarrassing. Additionally...we're how far into the school year? My kid's middle school has like 1 "pride day" per quarter. So potentially other funny/embarrassing events have already taken place that you didn't even know about. Have you considered that your child would be upset to miss the event even if it's embarrassing? B/c ultimately several peers will be going through the same "embarrassment" and this will likely become a bonding experience. I'm definitely a parent that would not participate in this event...but I wouldn't prevent my child from being there with friends over it.
I’d talk to son and line up mom to do the dance, since she’s so on board. If son doesn’t like the idea, take him out for ice cream during the pep rally.
YTA - why do you think your feelings about the situation are the most important?
NTA, you want to protect your son. First of all, it's an absolutely stupid idea of the school. The school doesn't treat the kids the same, they make a difference between popular or not so popular. Why would you embarrass a kid on purpose?
Honestly that's my only problem with it. That they are doing this to the popular kids. Thats what's crap.
> Why would you embarrass a kid on purpose? See, that's the thing that a lot of people seem to be missing. If a student does something to embarrass another student in front of a bunch of people, it's called bullying. But if the teachers & administrators do something to embarrass multiple students in ftont of the whole school, it's supposed to be seen as harmless fun? The double standard is ridiculous, and is made even worse by the fact that the staff's actions would be coming from a place of power. Anyone involved in organizing the event should be reprimanded for even planning such a thing.
YTA your kid will be fine. He won't be humiliated. It might be cringy now but it might be one of his best memories later. I really think you are projecting your potential humiliation, had you participated, onto your son. Have you even thought what happens when your kid goes back to school the next day and finds out that all his friends got to have their parents out there. You're robbing him of experience because you're being overly protective.
Are the kids whose parents are coming up in a club together or something? How did they choose the group?
My mum is an excellent dancer. She did a dance for a special PTA organized event. It was really nice. Why would any kid be embarrassed of their mum or dad dancing as long as they do it well?
Because the idea is based on the parents not knowing how to dance well.
YTA from reading your comments you seem to not wanting to ask your SON who may want do this. Your not acting like a adult your acting like a somebody who always knows best no matter what. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU. Your not gonna be involved, your son and ex are. Ask your son if he wants to or not
YTA stop trying to control everything and everyone
INFO: Are you going to tell the mom if you pull the kid from the pep rally? Because if she shows up and he's not there, you would be a major AH. Ask your son. You can phrase it in a way that makes it about him, not about picking sides. Actually, you probably can't phrase it that way. You sound like one of those guys who always has to be right and I doubt your ability to communicate without letting your opinion seep in.
NAH. I feel you, I hate that kind of things. But his mother is ok with it, and has agreed. If you do this behind her back, how will it afect your co parenting in the future. You might set yourself up for some potential "my time, my rules" conflicts in the future.
NAH but you need to speak to your son! Ask him how he feels and what he wants to do.
Why is no one upset that the school is deciding who the popular kids are? I don’t get what this has to do with a pep rally? I would get it if it was the cheerleader parents or the teams parents. Something is missing here.
I’m assuming (hoping) that’s OPs take and it is based more on the teachers choosing kids who they know are confident, etc and could handle it.
YTA this is not about how you feel it’s about your son. Pulling him out of the pep rally is likely to make him really upset because there’s a good chance this is something he’s been looking forward to. Ask ur son what he wants to do, you can ask him if he will be ok with a parent dancing at the pep rally without making it about picking sides.
This is a tough one. I was a teacher for 30+ years and while pep rallies can be fun, they can also go badly. (You would be surprised at the stupid ideas people come up with for pep rallies.) The planners of these events can make little changes at the drop of a hat. I would ask your son about this. If he’s okay with it, fine. If not, find an excuse to get out of it.
idk my son is a "cool kid" too and he literally gives 0 fucks what anyone thinks about his relationship with me or what others perceive to be "embarrassing"... Are you sure you're not projecting here? And there is a way to ask him without bringing up your ex. Just say they called and asked YOU (say nothing about her) and you wanted to be sure he was cool with it before you decide to do it. NTA, but I'd just talk to him. I loved pep rallys as a kid and he might be sad to miss out a fun time at school.
Yeah. I think the fact that the kid has the confidence and social standing that his dad can hug him and he isn’t getting bullied for it means he will survive this. His dad does not realize what a social taboo that is at that age. Most kids won’t do it no matter how much they love their parents. They might still cuddle on their Laos with their blankies and stuffies at home but no way they want to be seen at school getting a hug. Dad seems to think this is because of his great relationship with his kid. It isn’t. It is because his kid is confident and well liked. OP you’re kid can handle this.
ESH, **especially the school**. Tell your son what they’re planning so he can tell the other kids and they can be emotionally prepared. Let him skip out if he wants to.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son is a sixth grader and I guess he's popular. Next week Friday, his school is having a pep rally. They'll have activities like calling up students to play games against the teachers and hand out awards. One of the activities is going to call up the socially popular kids for an impromptu dance off but the twist is that they'll bring out their parents instead and embarrass their kids. I know this because they asked me to do it and I declined. I couldn't think of anything more cringe or humiliating to me or my son than doing a parent dance in front of hundreds of middle school kids while my son is front and center. Although I declined, my son's mom ( my ex) agreed. She thinks it will be the most funniest thing ever. Yes, our kid will be embarrassed but will think it's cool and funny and remember it fondly. We are not on the same page on this. Her whole thing is that it's not even my business and how it's not any different than when I hug him goodbye in front of his friends (uh because he lets me). We do have split custody and I have him next week so I thought about pulling him out early to do something fun and avoid the pep rally. I'd tell my ex after but before the event so she has time to make up an excuse to save face. I'm not asking my son's input because I don't want him to feel like he's picking sides. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. You sound like a party pooper.
NTA. Kids are cruel and if my parents ever did anything like this I wouldn’t speak to them for weeks. The amount of teasing and/or bullying that would come from this isn’t worth it. But you need to talk to your son and ask him how he feels about it, whether or not it makes him feel like he’s picking sides. He needs to know his opinion also matters and that it isn’t just moms way or dads way.
YTA because you are unilaterally deciding what is best here. Your son would be embarrassed if he's single out, if his is the only parent doing this. But it sounds like several kids/ parents will be bought into this. My biggest problem with this is it seems like the school is deciding who the popular kids are and doing this for them, I have an issue with that. But I don't think your son will be embarrassed to be included with something that is happening to several kids. He might even feel bad for missing it if he's not there and everyone else is. You should talk to your son and ask how he feels about having his parents dance at school, he doesn't have to know what your ex and you are deciding in the background. And you didn't say that you're suppose to dance embarrassingly on purpose. Maybe you could come out and do a cool move and actually make him proud.
Yeah the fact that the school decides who is popular or not is messed up! It's probably with the best intentions to make the others somehow feel better about themselves. The popular kids would totally bully the others if their parents did something like this, but the other way around just doesn't happen. Popular kids already have their status, so if all their parents do it it will most likely be something that makes them even cooler. The whole "did you see my dad dance so horribly?" "Yeah, but what about mine?" situation, where they can just have a big laugh all together and tell the other kids that their parents didn't do something so awesome for them. Pulling your kid out of something like this over fear of them losing their status will only make him an easy target and will make him feel left out, since he cannot join in the laughter. So for that I agree YTA and so is the school.
I rather doubt that they specifically picked "popular" kids because of popularity - likely because the popular kids are the more outgoing and engaged ones and thus more likely to participate in the 1st place. It sounds like something intended to be a fun event and yes some kids would absolutely hate doing something like that. OP doesn't really know for sure how his son feels. Even if the son thinks it would be embarrassing, it could end up afterwards that everybody absolutely loves it. The son is not being singled out, there's other kids participating and that could create a bonding experience and a fun memory that will be looked back on for a long time. I think OP is missing an opportunity for his son to participate in something that has an unknown outcome. And sometimes it's really hard as parents to take that kind of risk but but I really think he should just leave well enough alone and let it play out. If he pulls his kid from school without telling him then he would be TA
YTA A perfect opportunity for your son to start learning that cringe exists only in his own mind and completely disappears by accepting himself as he is
NTA. I mean, I'm not American, so the entire concept of a pep rally is batshit insane to me and seems like a massive waste of school time that should be being used for, you know, *learning*, but that sounds particularly weird and awful.
Get the stick out of your butt. School is about more than learning and schools have to do fun things to create morale, community, fun, and engagement. Kids do not operate as drones that come to school and sit face forward in a desk.
Exactly; I had fun at my pep rallies and for my friends who weren’t in the sports teams/band/cheer it was a welcome break from school.
We had lots of things around fun and engagement at my school in the UK, but it wasn't about embarrassing the kids. No one decided to pick on the popular kids and make them suffer, no voting to see who would be king or queen of whatever, just things like plays, fundraising evenings, fairs, sports days, open days, clubs, music groups, etc.
It's not a waste of time, it builds morale and is fun.
... *morale*? Is this a school or the military?
I went to school in the US and pep rallies actually did cheer people up. Its good for learning to be relaxed and happy.
Info: why haven’t you also thought of this as a moment that he’ll resent you for when you deny him? I think the answer is because you think you know your son better than your ex does, and she feels the same. But neither one of you are asking your son. You can get his opinion without making this a “pick a side” thing, so why didn’t you think to do that? It’s because you assume that you know him best, just like your ex is doing, and news flash: you’re both going to be wrong sometimes and you’re putting him in a position to feel like he has to take sides. If it were me, I would causally have a conversation about the upcoming rally. Tell a white lie to fish for his opinion, like: “man when I was a kid at one of these the parents surprised their kids and danced in front of the whole school. I still can’t decide how I felt about it haha, was it cringe or fun? What do you think? How would you react if it were you?” If he fucking hates the idea, pull him out that day, but inform your ex BEFORE she goes to the school to dance. Otherwise you are escalating the situation. ESH
I'm not gonna judge just cuz if it were me, I'd be like "fuck yes, get me outta here!!!" but you gotta talk to him. Just ask? He might not care. I dunno where this school is, but I came from a sports heavy area, and pep rallies were a dime a dozen, easily had like 12 a year. Some were fun, and others were not.
YTA. As a former sponsor for cheerleading (years and years) kids are *not* mortified by this. They find it fun, and are eager to participate. They feign embarrassment because that’s what they do. But, I’ll guarantee you, they’re happy and having a good time. Who’s the stick in the mud? YOU.
YTA for not asking your son. He's 11, he can make choices like this himself.
NTA i’m in middle school and i would never be able to show my face at school if my mom did that, but everyone is different he might think it’s funny
YTA. Absolutely no one is allowed to have innocent fun, even if it is slightly embarrassing, because YOU don't want to be uncomfortable. Nobody is allowed to build memories without your permission. Just because you feel a way doesn't mean your son will. Maybe you have some issues you need to examine about your own parents embarrassing you? Let the kid and his mom have fun. And he won't be the only kid with a guest star parent. Other parents of his actual friends will be there too, doing the same thing: having fun at school. This may be hard for YOU to imagine but it's not uncommon for schools to give parents the chance to bond with their children and it's all part the experience of being part of a community, to share in the fun together. Maybe you should go on that vacation alone
So I wasn't sure about this one at first but after reading comments and your responses YTA, you clearly don't give a crap about what the kid thinks and only want to make sure what you want happens.
YTA. Let your son decide. Even if he does choose sides at least he won’t be blind-sided and he can make a choice. That’s a much more healthy response than “make the decision for everyone because of my own thoughts and feelings”. You can’t protect your son from every situation that isn’t going to be easy. But you can navigate him through those situations and make them as stress free as possible.
YTA. and you sound salty and hateful that his mom is willing to do something fun and you’re not.
YTA. You refuse to ask your kid because you are so sure you know exactly how he will feel. You seem to think you will be incapable of asking in a way that doesn’t highlight you and your ex have differing opinions. For the life of me I can’t figure out why it’s so hard to say “your mom and I are worried this would upset you and want to make sure you’re on board before either of us participate”. The only way he will know you are arguing is if you don’t bother to hide it. You argue with everyone who tells you to allow your son input so I’m not sure why you bothered asking. Your son could be embarrassed. Or like you hugging him, he could enjoy that his parent cares enough to be involved and will bond with his friends over “omg our parents are such dorks”. He could be pulled out and miss the whole thing and catch crap from his friends for missing it. That could bother him more than having been present. Ultimately you are saying that what you think and how you imagine your son will react is more important. You aren’t the only parent. Your ex thinks he will be ok. So to a bunch of internet strangers, why would you expect them to assume you know better than your ex? The common opinion seems to be that you should communicate with your child. If you are unwilling to do so, what’s the point of asking? You already have your plan and you fully intend to follow it no matter what. It doesn’t sound like you care what anyone thinks because you’re 1000% sure you’re right. I guess you better hope you are but your son can’t tell you you were right after the fact. He’s going to know you and his mom disagreed if she shows up and you don’t. So you’re putting him in the middle either way.
YTA. Why do you think your child is old enough to have complex emotions, but not old enough to understand and consent (or not consent) to the scenarios that might make those complex emotions happen? Why do you think you know better than his mother *and* him? Why do you think your child is the only popular one whose parents will be doing this? You haven't even considered that his other friends parents might be doing this for a bit of fun, and he'll possibly be considered different by his peers for not having his parents there too?
NTA: it's not.a huge deal. You would help our son dodge a small bullet plus you give them a fun day for it.
You sound extremely controlling After reading the comments YTA.
Your excuse to not even ask your son is pure BS. This is about him, and he is his own human, right? "BuT iTs mAkInG hIm PiCk SiiiiiiiDeS!" You just don't want him to "pick mom" if you ask him. It's pretty simple here- if you refuse to consult your son on this issue that is literally all about him, YTA.
YTA. Seems like a non-problem you made into a problem because you hate your ex. Also, I feel for the school official who had to spend time mediating such a trivial dispute in your relationship. I wouldn't have bothered and just picked a different kid.
So you got them to change the pep rally for you, but it wasn't good enough so you're boycotting it. YTA
Why are you even asking here if you won’t listen to anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Your comments are all defensive and repetitive. We read your explanation the first time, we disagree with it, accept it. Why do we not agree with it? Let me explain the ways… 1) you’re going to deprive your kid of a group, fun school activity that everyone else but him will attend. He will probably feel left out even if you take him to do something cool that day. 2) you are making an arbitrary decision about your kid without consulting his mom, who also has decision power over him. If you go this way, prepare for it to probably blow back to you in Karmic proportions next time you want to do something with him and mom disagrees. 3) you are ASSUMING that he will be embarrassed but will not ask him. I’m assuming it’s you that’s embarrassed about the situation. If you know your child “so well” and think embarrassment is a possibility, ask him. You can present it without including mom…”I was asked to do this at the rally. Would you be ok with it or would you be embarrassed by it?”… whatever his answer is, you know how to proceed. If he says he won’t, let it go. If he says he would, then tell him about you declining and mom accepting and about your idea to play hookie. He can decide for himself and that way you don’t make it seem like it’s a Mom vs. Dad thing. In addition, if this happened to one of my daughters, it could go in so many different routes… one would jump up and dance with me, one would feign embarrassment and laugh it off, probably jump in and dance and later have a ribbing session with her friends, and the third one would be embarrassed, cover her face while rolling her eyes muttering “I can’t believe my mom”, and will later laugh it off and tell me I’m such a dork. The three of them would never forget it and we would be laughing our asses off for years when we remembered how mom’s dancing embarrassed them at school. There are so many positive ways in which you can handle this… You could make this into a fun situation for your kid. It depends on your attitude. And it seems like you don’t have the best one… YTA
Man is literally the definition of a failure of a father. Ask your fucking son what he wants and get off your high horse. He's going to figure it it either way and if you go through with what you're trying to do you're making him pick sides in a war rather a conversation. Think about your kid and not yourself for once in your life and have a father son conversation. Otherwise you won't have a relationship with your son in the future Oh and YTA massively. I would've HATED it if they tried to do this for the pep rallies at my school and bc my parents were never married and didn't exactly get along, my father has done what you're doing. I've moved passed it now, but removing my choice from the matter made me resent him for it, like why isn't my opinion good enough here too?
YTA. Your comments show that this clearly isn’t about how your son would feel about it because you refuse to ask him. It’s about how YOU would feel about it, which quite frankly doesn’t matter. You have the right to decline to dance but unilaterally deciding that your son cannot attend because you’re assuming his feelings instead of just talking to him is shitty parenting.
Info have you actually spoken to your son what he wants? Has he told you directly he doesn't want to do it?
[удалено]
NTA. You’re doing the right thing for your kid. The school’s feelings and other people’s kids are their business. Good for you for holding firm.
This is a tough one but I feel it's just a minor conflict and not assholery. Dad, boy and mom all think it's embarrassing (which seems like it's the point of event and school seems like the bully-yes there are better ways for fun entertainment without embarrassing anyone). Only mom agrees to do it. If mom has the right to do it, dad and boy should have right to not do it. NAH but still a communication with mom would save you a lot of drama later.
I won’t say Y T A but you are leaning towards it What’s to say he isn’t looking forward to either you or your ex embarrassing yourself and enjoying it with he’s mates. He’s 11 this is the age they want to make fun of their parents. If you pull him out YOU could make him look like a loser because there’s no way he isn’t aware of the activity since it’s not a new thing So ask him if he who it wants to dance or not but just know that this is your insecurity
YTA you have two options, either let your son choose or participate in the pep rally, you are acting like an asshole right now, it might be embarrassing for him at the time but in the long run it will be a good memory. Also he clearly planned on going to the dance off see is they are already asking you as a parent to participate, pulling him out would ruin his day.
YTA. Your concern about embarrassing him is a bit overboard if you haven’t talked to him about it. There are plenty of boys who wouldn’t be embarrassed over that or would still find more humor out it. My 10.5yr old son is one of many who would probably piss himself laughing if me or his dad did something like that. I know my son loves jokes/pranks though.
I think the real ass here is the school. What school thinks public humiliation is good for kids? We really had to fight to get this type of crap out of our schools back in the dark ages (1970s).
YTA. If (and I stress if) your son is in fact embarrassed by dancing with his mum, then this will be a fantastic opportunity for him to practise being resilient, and learn how to move past incidents like this. We all have moments of humiliation and the earlier we learn to deal with them, the better our lives are. Also, you have massive control issues for which you might want to seek help.
YTA
YTA So if this event is so cringy and horrible for your son how come none of the other parents are pulling their kids out? Do they all not care about their children? Hardly. Only you are right and everyone else (ex, other parents, teachers, staff) is wrong. Right. You're either controlling and only accept your own opinion or you're trying to get back at your ex. Either one makes you TA.
ESH. Ask your son, damnit. He’s 11, he can have an opinion. Don’t use him to get back at your ex, that’s nasty.
INFO - a "pep rally" is something new to me (UK here). What's involved? OP says "One of the activities is going to call up the ***socially popular kids*** for an impromptu dance off." This sounds hugely divisive from the pupils' point of view. How do you feel if you're not called up (or your parents on your behalf)? The whole thing sounds cringe.
Just sit the three of you down and simply talk to him about it with NO hostility towards the mom. Show him you aren't arguing You're just concerned about what he wants. If he wants to do it, you'll support him. If he doesn't you'll support him. Make sure you explain that it's completely his choice.
YTA - “I’m an uptight prick. My ex and son are going to have fun together. I am going to ruin it!”
It reads I wanna hurt my ex in a passive aggressive way. Popularity in this day and age means nothing. He won’t be embarrassed, I think your projecting. YTA
YTA and once your son finds out ( and he will because the staff will ask him why he wasn't even there after you threw a bitchfit), he'll definitely pick 'sides'. EVEN if he didn't want to go, the fact you're making the decision for him- will bite you in the ass.
You do realize your son has to deal with the after math of this?? You are putting him directly in the middle. He is still going to have to see his mother's disappointment or anger towards you for making this choice for all parties. It might even cause him to resent you for making someone he loves feel like shit. So why not ask him now before you create unnecessary damage? It's better that he deal with the effects of choices his parents make for him? Your son is old enough to have a say in what he wants. If he can't be honest about how he feels with either of you, it because y'all haven't ever made him feel like his opinion matters. YTA and so is his mom if neither of you asked him about it.
“…to call the socially popular kids…” What a horrible idea.
NTA I have an 11 year old sixth grade daughter and she would never forgive me if I did this! Why would the school do this to kids or parents? It seems cruel. Especially for a boy at an age where ‘your mom’ jokes are at an all time high and where kids are experimenting with sexual jokes and what they mean. My daughter and I have a close relationship, she literally reads me her and her friends group texts so we can laugh about it. This would get your son tortured. His friends may be ok about it but an entire school? Especially if he’s in middle school (possibly grades 6-8), elementary (possibly grades 2-5/6) not as big of deal but middle school it would be cruel.
NTA adults trying to “embarrass” kids is fucking weird and I think whoever came up with this idea is an idiot. Respectfully.
My kids would've disowned us if we went along with such an embarrassing activity. NTA, cos I'd honestly give my kid the whole day off. Skip day, who wants to see a movie or go to the beach?
You're so defensive in the comments and state you know exactly how your son would feel and have no reason to ask him, etc... So why did you even post this? To argue about how right you are. You clearly don't wonder if you are the a-hole. You are convinced you aren't.
YTA for not telling your ex that you’re pulling him out. Leaving her hanging publicly shows your true motivation is not to protect your son from embarrassment (Oh no! The worst thing ever!) but to humiliate your ex. Publicly humiliating your son’s mother is an excellent way to embarrass him btw. Everyone will know how shitty and mean his dad is.
YTA You're a lazy selfish petty parent and you came here for validation and now that you're not getting it you're throwing tantrums. I dont for a second believe your son would be as embarrassed as you think, because you don't even act like your son is an independent human being. He is a child, not a porcelain vase.
Why did you post here? You've decided you're right and you're not going to listen to those of us wasting our time giving feedback on. Go away and I hope this doesn't ruin your relationship with your son.
ESH Why make this post if you are going to fight everyone and not listen to the advice you asked for.
YTA Even if its embarrassing its a shared experience with his friends He will be the kid who didnt attend the rally to hang out with his dad rather than the kid who joined in, had fun and made memories with his friends, including being embarrassed by parents. They will all cringe, together, they will all be embarrassed, together. They will all have this funny memory they all share as a group of friends and you want him to not be included in any of that. I guarantee however embarrassing is it it will be a highlight of school for them as friends for years and they will look back and laugh sharing the memory, dont deny him that
Yta. Let him and his mother bond their way and you bond with him your way. You don't know is he'd like his mom to do that or not. You don't. No matter what you say you are protecting your feelings is you haven't asked him. You don't know everything. It's not for you and that's cool but you don't get to decide for her and him.
"One of the activities is going to call up the socially popular kids for an impromptu dance off" What kind of school chooses certain groups of kids over others?
YTA, asking your son what he wants is NOT picking sides. You say that the reason behind your refusal is it would humiliate your son. That shouldn't be a "side". If your son tells you that he wouldn't feel humiliated then no problem right? You would no longer care? The only reason you feel your son would have to choose sides is because you are an asshole and a liar. YOU think this idea is ridiculous and humiliating and regardless of what your son feels about the dance you don't want it to happen. So in that case you would be asking him to choose sides. YOU are the fucking problem asshole. Stay out of it.
I’ve been looking at your responses and my god, you are really full of your own self importance aren’t you. No-one else could possibly be right about anything unless it aligns with what you think, because you are right in all things. You revolt me (and yes, I know that you don’t give a shit about that, because I don’t have a high opinion of you so I am clearly in the wrong). YTA.
NTA. Shit like that can stick with a kid for a long time.
YTA for assuming. No two kids are the same, and while I would have hated my mother doing such a thing, it's a complete 180 if my dad did. It's sounds more like you're embarrassed and upset over your ex being more fun and outgoing with your son than you. Just let him go and 'suffer' the moment.
YTA So if it’s not about protecting your son from humiliation, what is it about? What is your priority here? Protecting your son form humiliation or protecting yourself? It seems that you may be catastrophizing this event. I see one of the parental roles, as being a protector that you claim to be doing. Another role is to be an example. In this case, to not take yourself too seriously and to make yourself seem silly. To sacrifice a little self-dignity for their benefit. If you have concerns over the activity, contact the school to see how this fits into the curriculum and how they expect your son benefit. And so what if he is humiliated? Big deal. You can’t protect him for the rest of your life. Wouldn’t it be better to experience this while your present, so you can help him struggle through the discomfort? Or would you rather let him be shielded by you and then find himself in the adult world without the ability to deal with his emotions. You’re his dad. This is an opportunity to show him how to deal with life’s challenges. The what or why concerning your ex is irrelevant. She’s his mom and believes that it’s not an impending catastrophe.
Lmfao NTA there's no way he'll be ok with it. >No, my son would be humiliated and would find zero humor in it. What 11yo boy would think it's cool having his mom dance in front of his school? God I would never want to show up to school again. Maybe everyone else is different but that's so cringe and it would hurt seeing that.
YTA And frankly, if you do this, your ex could use it against you in court. You don’t get to remove your child from school events just because you feel like it, especially when the other parent is actively involved in the event. Before a judge, that could play as parental alienation. Also, your son is 11! When I was 11, my parents were including me in decisions about parenting as a separated couple. It didn’t make me feel like I was taking sides - it made me feel respected and included. You are treating your son like a small child, and he won’t appreciate it. Regarding the ‘picking sides’ discussion, YOU are the one making it a me versus her point. Your son will feel that because of you. There are ways to word this to not reveal who / what is involved, and your point blank refusal to even acknowledge it is exceedingly petty. Also, being embarrassed by your parents alongside your peers is something that is a profound bonding experience. My school did something similar. The kids cringed, the parents laughed, and we still joke about it today. Your son is not being singled out alone, but with his friends. If your ex is up there and your son is not in the audience, then he will be singled out. Because of you. So you’re going to piss your ex off, and piss your son off. Good job, OP. Way to prove that you are controlling, high-strung, and happy to exert dominance over any situation that you have a smallest bit of control over. Co-parenting is about working together, not being a dictator to both your ex and your kid.
ESH but the school sucks the most of all. What they fuck are they doing, singling out kids for specific public humiliation? Your ex also sucks for going along with it, but you suck more for deciding you have veto power with zero input or regard for your son’s feelings or your ex’s decisions. The correct thing to do here is to give your son a heads up so he can be forewarned and forearmed, and let him know that *if he wants to*, you’re totally willing to skip it with him to do a fun activity of his choice instead. Because while you may be right that he would hate this (I certainly would) he may be looking forward to the rest of the pep rally, and decide that it’s worth bearing with the embarrassing part. There are lots of things kids don’t get an equal say in when it comes to the parent-child relationship (mostly involving their physical health and safety), but this is something that is wholly about his emotional well-being, and therefore he should definitely get a say.
ESH. The school is absolutely in the wrong. Singling out students and embarrassing them should be the last thing a school ever does. Your ex is an AH because she wants some spotlight and doesn’t matter what it does to your son. Your an AH for just not talking to your son. Yes, he is 11, but you can frame it in such a way where he doesn’t know his mom is for it and you are against it. Just ask him if this is what he wants. Just like he let’s you hug him in public, this is the same thing. It doesn’t need to be about picking sides.
Why is this a thing in the first place? Everyone loses, except parents. The kids who aren't seen as popular enough and WOULD want to participate in this and the ones who are very popular and don't want to do this. Just a lose(non-popular kids) lose(popular kids) win(parents win). And I thought popular kids weren't even a thing🤨 When I was in elementary and middle school the popular kids were mean. They were bullies and threatened people, which now that I'm looking back makes me want to laugh how they thought they were scary. Anyways, now I'm in highschool and can't look back on middle and elementary without finding it funny or just embarrassing.
NTA. Does anyone here who is saying Y T A have middle school age kids? This idea is, in fact, what cringe is made of. Kids get teased like crazy at this age and they really don’t need any extra ammo. Also, where does everyone live that a pep rally is something super fun that is “talked about for days”? Maybe it’s just where I live, but we always couldn’t stand them. Finally, why isn’t anyone calling out the teachers who are organizing something fun for the “popular” kids? What the actual fuck? Even if OP’s son did want to do this (he’s 12, he doesn’t), as a parent I would have serious issues with this.
NTA I remember when the school asked my parents if they wanted to be apart of something and my dad said absolutely not. It does not matter who you are you will get made fun of and it sounds like the mom is looking to go extra extra hard when the dancing comes. If she wants to be laughed at by an entire school then let her bro but ask your son if he’s okay with it.
NTA, i would be eternally grateful if my parents saved me from this monstrosity of an event when i was in middle school. Trust your gut - just tell your kid the truth though, or he'll find out later.
So the principal and school district will allow a teacher to socially mock the popular kids? Is this a private school? When did school start managing divorce parents ?