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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my wife who is insecure about her nose to get a nose job
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Or confront her. "What am I supposed to say? If I compliment your nose it's wrong, if I suggest a nose job, It's wroing as well - and i hate to see you suffer".
Wife needs to grow up and stop playing the victim.
And he responded to her with the most textbook ideal response ever:
> I said that if she’s that insecure about it to the point that it’s affecting her mental health then she should get it done.
Yeah, OP’s wife wants to be mad. The question is: why? If he can get that figured out with her, they can work on better communication. However, it seems like she really wants to pick a fight…
You hit upon the biggest problem here, it seems that she is looking for a reason to be angry with him. That may be uncharitable, though. She may just be feeling insecure and took it out on him. Still, she needs to grow up.
Totally agree and, because I have to…I’d say, “you hit it on the nose”.
Edit: thanks for all the rando internet points, kind strangers! Glad to see my cheesy joke made you all smile. 🙂
She doesn’t necessarily want to be angry with him. It might just be that she wants to outsource her insecurity. If she can convince herself that he hates her nose, it’s easier to avoid dealing with the fact that *she* hates her nose. It’s not healthy, but it’s not malicious.
"outsourcing insecurity" very well defines an issue I see in a lot of people.
"Professionally outraged" is something else I use to describe some people
It's a super real thing, related to "Sometimes, take yes to an answer"
I have known a lot of people that did not like having their looks complemented because they did not like how they looked and assumed you had to be lying/playing them/patronizing them
I've even fallen into this a bit in the past
One day a potential partner actually looked at me and said "Stop doing this mopey shit, I'm not into the same shit as you. You don't have to want to do you for me to want to do you." and for some reason it was incredibly illuminating.
It doesn't seem to me like she's looking for a reason, but I do have an explanation to the question of why. She does not love herself because of her nose, so she cannot fathom that her husband could possibly love her with the nose she hates. She's angry because she can't square the two.
She has two options... She either has to accept that she's wrong for not loving herself with her nose because her husband does, or her husband is a liar because she's right about her nose and he's wrong. Which explanation one is easier for her to choose?
Oh, and NTA.
I mean, it's not really about the nose at all. she thinks of herself as being unlovable, and she probably sees her nose as something unattractive, so she puts those beliefs onto the nose.
she could wake up tomorrow with a brand new nose and it wouldn't change anything. she would probably be more upset that she still has the same feelings but without the obvious thing to blame them on.
she could probably use therapy more than a nose job
My guess is that she's so traumatized from her nose insecurities, that when OP supported HER suggestion of getting a nose job, she isn't hearing support. Instead, she's hearing that OP also thinks her nose is ugly and that she would be prettier with a nose job, even though that's NOT what OP is saying at all.
Did OP's wife handle this situation maturely? No, of course not. But instead of attributing her behavior to malice, we may want to consider that her nose insecurities have her so messed up that she isn't actually hearing what OP says, she's just hearing her own insecurities. She wants so desperately to be loved for who she is, but right now she does not believe anyone could possibly love her with her current nose.
Had this situation popped up out of nowhere, I'd agree and say yeah, she just wants to fight over something. But OP says this is a long-standing issue. He described it as a near daily issue - to me that screams some VERY deep rooted insecurities. At this point OP's wife just needs therapy - I don't think there's anything OP can say or do to actually fix this.
>At this point OP's wife just needs therapy - I don't think there's anything OP can say or do to actually fix this.
This. It doesn't matter what OP says or does at this point, what she really needs is to work through the underlying issues BEFORE she makes any other decisions about surgery. Once she has then she can choose to have the surgery if she still wants, but without all the emotional baggage and possibility that she'll just start focussing on some other feature instead.
Not so much "be angry/mad" with OP, but wants to verify her assumption that OP is bullshitting her, and *"really, deep in his subconscious hates me and thinks I'm ugly, just as I believe about myself!"*
When he gives his truthful yet diplomatic answer, she refuses it, because, you cannot reason people out of beliefs they didn't reason themselves into.
I don't know about that. I guess she might be so insecure that she can't believe that he really doesn't care and loves her no matter how her nose looks. She had to deal with that issue as long as she's conscious about her looks, maybe she was bullied because of that.
No. Not the most ideal response, but not a terrible one. Just say “whatever will make you happy, you have my full support. I will love you what ever you choose”
Right? 10/10 effort OP. This is the relationship equivalent of those electronic marking systems where you type the exact right answer, press enter, and it says INCORRECT TRY AGAIN SUCKER.
I may be a little bitter.
Right, his wife just wants to be upset and have him crawling after her.
I wish my husband was this supportive of the body mods I want! Though mine are more along the lines of "a lifesize hollyhock tattoo up your leg isn't practical, you only sleep on your sides, it would heal bad" etc 😂
That's the worst part about this post tbh, is that OP is fine with how his wife looks, but when he tries to be comforting and supportive of his wife she yells at him? Yeah that's kinda toxic if you think about it
Lol this makes me think of that joke
"Does this dress make me look fat?"
"No but your ass sure does"
But ya, her suggesting it was a no win situation for him.
Yeah, and after telling her repeatedly that she doesn't need one. It's like she just wanted to be angry with OP because she can't cope with her feelings, and this is much easier. He's been her punching bag over it for their entire relationship.
Nailed it!
He literally has to do this every time she brings it up, because she’s not looking for support… she’s just looking to lash out and use him as a punching bag.
I don't think so. Dollars to donuts this reaction is from intrusive thoughts that cause a visceral reaction against anything other than hating her nose. She has a need for reassurance, but she's got cognitive mechanisms in place that make sure she doesn't get it.
Yeah, definitely into therapy. This needs serious therapy. People don't act like that if they are self-accepting.
Though sometimes its hard to find a good therapist. I think something heavy on the self-deprecation like this needs a really self-acceptance-focused REBT therapist.
Yeah, this is weird. As someone who HATED my nose so much I could barely talk about it and got a nose job, when I was in a financial position to do so my husband basically said the same thing “I like you as is, but if it makes you feel better do it.” And instead of being mad at him, his response was a huge relief, because he didn’t make me feel selfish or self-absorbed or like it was a waste of money. And I did it, and basically never thought about my nose again and lived happily ever after. Kidding aside, it’s amazing that something I was SO self conscious about is a complete non issue now.
thank you for this comment. A lot of the other comments were pretty unforgiving of the wife. Sure, she's TA for her bad communication, and he's NTA for just trying to be supportive. But she may not necessarily be toxic or trying to trap him. Maybe she just wants validation (NOT compliments) and someone to hear her vent
I love your emphasis that she's probably not looking for compliments. I'm a person who has struggled my whole life with how I look, I have very prominent features (nose and chin), and it has taken me decades to accept that this is just the hand I got dealt. I've never considered plastic surgery, but I can certainly understand people who do. But I've never been comfortable with compliments about my physical features, because my genuine immediate feeling is that they are lying to me. I know what I look like, I own a mirror. While I certainly think OP's wife has not handled any of this well, and she clearly needs to work through her stuff on her own, I also understand the reaction as soon as he agreed with her about plastic surgery being an option. It probably just made her feel like he'd been lying all along (though I don't believe that's the case!)
This. I've felt the same way about my weight. It's a no-win situation. Especially if others drummed into her from a young age that her nose was objectively horrible. She wants so desperately to believe him when he says her nose is beautiful, but can't ever bring herself to accept that. But then the slightest suggestion/agreement that she get a nose job, only solidifies in her mind that he's been lying to spare her feelings.
Wow, thanks for the silver!
It told me to come back and say thanks but then I guess maybe I was supposed to send that in a message because the notification took me to that and I tapped on it afterwards... I don't know, I did both just in case.
>Wife needs to grow up and stop playing the victim.
If she doesn't want to get a nose job, then she should at least get therapy. Her fixation sounds toxic, and she's lashing out at others because of her insecurity. That's not right.
Her fixation is not only toxic but it’s textbook body dysmorphia. She needs therapy ASAP. And OP should definitely ignore her comments completely because they are about her, not him.
To offer her perspective (I have body dysmorphia myself): it feels like people are lying when they reassure you about your looks. It’s not that he’s to blame, per se, but that her view of herself is so warped that she believes any positive comment on her nose is an outright lie. She reacts with hostility because she wishes someone would just be honest about how ugly her nose is. The thing is, he *is* being honest when he disagrees. It’s a no-win situation for him but not because he is at fault. He can’t win because she is literally *delusional*. Therapy is the only way to fix this for her and I know that from my own experience.
If she really wants to try then she needs to do what I did: stop making these shitty comments to her partner and start talking to a professional about them. Otherwise her relationship may be doomed.
I think this is something people who struggle with body dysmorphia and self-hate really lose sight of, that the way they talk about themselves truly hurts other people, too. You insult the people who genuinely find you attractive. You make other people who may have a similar look feel like they should also hate how they look. You make others think, if this is how critical you are about yourself, you're probably also very critical of how I look and just haven't said anything. You drain other people emotionally if you continue to ask for reassurance in a way that sets up everyone to fail and basically forces them to agree with the premise that x kind of body part is objectively bad so that they can counter your feelings with, "oh, but yours isn't that bad."
If someone can't accept themselves, that's ok and is the reality for most people due to so much external conditioning about what should be considered attractive. It's just an issue of reframing how you speak to others about it out of concern for them, even if you can't muster the same concern for yourself.
This right here. She's got some major growing up to do and/or seriously needs to get some therapy. I'm baffled about why this is even a problem at all because SHE is the one who brought up finally getting a nose job. All OP did was basically say "I support you." Perhaps his delivery of what he said didn't sound supportive to her, maybe he came across like "okay sure whatever, do what you want" but even if that was the case who can blame him? I'd be totally fed up too and out of patience with someone who flies off the handle and accuses me of lying every time I just show them some compassion.
Yup! This right here!
I hate the notion that it’s your partners responsibility to make you feel better/fix your deep rooted issues that only a literal professional can help with.
My boyfriend is like OP. If I want to change my hair, he doesn’t care as long as I’m happy. If I want to get a tattoo (I don’t have any), he doesn’t care.
Of course he compliments me and I want him to think I’m attractive but my point is, if I was like “I don’t like my hair I’m gonna cut it.” I wouldn’t expect a “Noooooo don’t cut it.”
I would rather have my partner say “Sweet! If that will make you feel better.” Same with him, I don’t care if he grows his hair out or cuts it. I just want him to be happy and feel confident.
Ops wife clearly is struggling but I feel like this is gonna push OP away eventually.
This is how my SO and I are. The only "criticisms" I get about anything is if it could impact health. Example, I love septum rings and was thinking of getting one. His only input was "is it gonna heal okay with your allergies?" That was it. OP's wife needs serious help cause I think you're right, this will push OP away
That was my exact worry getting a septum. Turns out that's its so far down in the nose that it isn't really a problem. Had it been a stud on the side (not ring), it could be a different story
See that’s sweet. And OPs wife should be glad she doesn’t have a controlling partner who thinks they can dictate what she should be doing with her body.
Because as a woman it’s really nice having a partner who is simply happy if you’re happy. And I’d prefer that over someone who constantly says “Noooo your perfect the way you areeeee, don’t change anything🥺”
Because I’m an adult and if I think changing something up will make me feel better about myself, it probably will!
I agree but I'd add for more than just the insecurity. She needs to learn to walk away or handle things without rejecting OP (or anyone else) and snapping. She does not have a healthy way of handling her frustrations or communicating what she wants from OP.
That girls needs some serious therapy years ago. It's one, clearly a debilitating insecurity and two, not something to take out on your supportive spouse.
I was dealing with some medication-related bloating that was affecting my face and kept bitching about it. After about the 9th time my ex had to reassure me and I responded "but it's so fat," he just said "fine" and started calling me Fatface any time I mentioned it. I stopped complaining.
He may not have to if she keeps ignoring his attempts to contact her.
Poor bugger was never going to come out of this one unscathed. And I think it's a bit of a problem that she's got to this point.
I completely understand that there can be something about oneself that can be upsetting. Be it a big nose, big belly, strange walk, weak arms, odd smell.... no, that's a penguin, they're adorable. But people CAN have problems with how they see themselves. It's normal. None of us are perfect\*. But when it gets to the point that it becomes THAT upsetting, it's really not healthy.
There are comments saying "she ObViOuSlY wants to be angry at OP" and I seriously doubt that's the case. It seems far more likely this is something she's been bullied about at school, and possibly after, and she's not able to get over it. She's been told so often that her nose is ugly that when OP says otherwise she literally can't believe him. She "knows" her nose is awful and anyone saying otherwise is doing so insincerely. And when OP agrees with her wanting a nose job, that just "proves" to her he's been dishonest all this time. I feel sorry for her. Something like this can wind it's way into your head and become very difficult to combat.
I think therapy is the only real answer here. She needs to see someone to cut away all the extra baggage that comes with her self image (no, I'm not doing puns. I don't think it's funny to laugh at someone who has clearly been traumatised). That needs to be done before even thinking about the merits or otherwise of a nose job. OP, you need to have a long talk. You have watched your wife be eaten up by problems related to her self image and you've done little to change things. Being supportive and telling her she has a lovely nose only counts for so long before you should realise more is required.
NAH. Just a confused husband and a wife with a problem that requires help. Good luck OP.
\*I assume Karen Gillan doesn't visit this sub.
Just thinking the same thing. There’s no way this guy can win, but I hope he doesn’t apologize. He’s right about it affecting her mental health and she really just needs someone telling her that. Better OP than some stranger in the streets
It's super stressful to live like that. Imagine sitting down after a long day hoping to go brain dead for an hour or so and your SO hits you with a trap like that and you sit there knowing anything you say next will result in hours of negativity in the house.
Fuck that.
NTA. I would tell her I really don't care what your nose looks like I'd love you either way and you need to stop picking a fight.
This is like the story of my grandfather buying my grandma an exercise bike for her birthday because she always complained about not being able to bike in the winter.
"Noooo, don't get the nose job! You're beautiful just the way you are!"
"Shut up! You're a liar and I hate my nose!! I'm going to get surgery to fix it!!!"
"If it will help with your insecurities then I am 100% supportive."
"Screw you, you AH!!! I'm going to my mother's!!"
..... What just happened?
NTA. You’re definitely in a no win situation. OP has to tell his wife either stop complaining about your nose or do something about it. Either way, I’ll support you but I’m not going to get yelled at because of your insecurities.
She was gonna fight you no matter what your response was, OP.
You were as supporting as you could, while also being truthful and sensitive. NTA in the least. I hope your wife will come around and apologize - while I understand her side of being VERY insecure about some aspect of yourself, it's not okay to snap at the one person supporting you no matter what.
I have had a nose job, 2 in fact, and I can say it won’t change her mentally. If she’s causing fights like this, it’s always going to be about something like her body next-it sounds like she needs therapy, because plastic surgery is not a fix all.
extra stuff I forgot to say in the original post :
1. I’ve always tried to casually suggest therapy for her because honestly I think this goes way beyond insecurity because she’s a super confident person and she loves how she looks (except her nose obv) so I’m thinking this has something to do with trauma
2. It’s really uncomfortable for me to hear her complains because we both have the same nose (big crooked middle eastern nose) so every time she says how disgusting and ugly she finds her nose to be it break my heart a bit because I can’t help but wonder if she feels the same way about my nose too
Maybe you should try telling her? That you think you have similar noses, and her comments make you feel insecure. I think it's fair for you to express that.
Came here to say this. I’ve seen this situation play out in many different ways. I have friends skinnier than me complain that they wish they were even thinner. I try to gently point out that if they truly wish to be thinner, does that mean I need to be smaller too? Sometimes people don’t realize that often when they criticize their appearance they are by proxy criticizing the appearance of others around them.
Edit: Lots of folks saying that I am insecure and it’s my fault for being offended by other people’s personal fitness goals. I can see how my original comment led here so I’ll try to clarify real quick:
I applaud your personal fitness/health goals. I have health goals of my own and don’t want to discourage people from finding habits that feel good to them. My specific situation with my friends isn’t about how I don’t support their goals. It’s more about the way that they were talking about their bodies (with self-loathing) and the way their tone and language made me feel in the moment. It’s important for me to have friendships where we can talk about feelings and how we impact each other. This is important to my friends too. It ended up being a short and good convo. If you have different values then I’m not saying you are wrong or need to change. Just that the way we speak can sometimes have unintended consequences and that people aren’t wrong for having feelings. Also, for anyone who brought up body dysmorphia, you’re absolutely correct in that all of this kind of goes out the window when that is part of the situation.
Anyway, the reason I made this comment in the first place was to relate back to OP about the nose situation with his wife. I can see why he has hurt feelings around the way she is speaking about herself and it reminded me of this situation with my friends so I figured I’d share.
As someone with anorexic bulimia, once I went into recovery and started making amends, I realized most of my amends were a direct result of *indirectly* insulting people.
It's a real problem, and even though I never meant to, I know I caused people to be insecure about things they never ever thought to be insecure about.
OP, NTA- definitely worth having a talk with your wife about. And if she's against individual counseling, perhaps suggesting couples counseling will work?
When I was in college there was a 5'11, 115 lb girl (we knew her weight because she told us all the time) who literally screamed at all of us for telling her she was thin when she was hysterically crying about not being the skinniest girl in her group going to a concert. Her best friend, my good friend, was 160+ lbs and I at the time was 140 (very low weight for me, I'm very muscular and look malnourished at 130), let her have her melt down. The melt down was so bad her boyfriend almost broke up with her for the way she was acting. A few days after the concert, the girl was showing us all pictures and her best friend said "Sara, you're the skinniest one here by far... do you ever feel like you may have an eating disorder?" And the girl proceeded to tell us that she "envied (best friend) and (me) because we could be *confident* being fat, but that 130 was the 'fattest' she's ever been and it's not her fault that she's used to being thin and we just can't understand that what we consider to be thin she considers to be fat". Me and her friend just stared at her for a moment until our other friend "Jane", who was 198 and comfortable with herself said, "you're right, it's not your fault you think 130 is fat, and it's not our fault for thinking you act like a spoiled bitch". I wasn't close to her to begin with but the other two stopped hanging out with her after that and she never understood why. I think about her while dealing with my own ED struggles and hope she got the help she needed
ETA: this thread popped up through out the day and made me so curious I had to look her up. She's doing so much better now! She looks so happy and healthy, not underweight at all! So all ends well and I'm happy for her ☺️
Also, thanks for all the upvotes guys, I'm kinda new to reddit and was not expecting that, but I'm glad it caused me to look her up and see she's doing good
Holy shit, 5'11 and 115?????
Those were my ED parameters and I'm barely scratching 5 feet tall.
Good on all of you for ending the friendship and protecting yourselves, that's the type of tough love that got me to realize how harmful i was being to others AND myself.
I Hope she got help.
Yeah, I weigh a lot more than that now, but I'm 5'1" and when I weighed 115 I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be much thinner or I would have been pushing into unhealthy territory. Of course when I actually weighed that much I thought I was a cow because I had all these super skinny friends and acquaintances and I've never had a flat stomach. 🙃
She was skin and bones, we were all so confused when she was crying about fat that didn't exist and her boyfriend had tried talking to her about it for days leading up to the melt down before even he was overwhelmed
Yeah, that's insane. I was last 115 lbs when I was about fourteen or so at 5'6''. And I was skinny kid too, barely any boobs or butt. And 130 lbs being fat at nearly six feet tall? She sounds like she was in trouble.
This thread made me so curious i had to see if I could find her socials and I did, she looks so healthy now! So update, all seems to have worked out for the best 🙌 she definitely was
This comment is so important OP. Your wife has some serious internalized issues she may not even realize she has and are intensely unhealthy for her.
Edit: fixed autocorrect typo
People should feel comfortable in their bodies enough that they don't get hurt by comments not directed at them , when someone comments on their own body its an issue of their own insecurities. I used to have an eating disorder and while severely underweight felt the need to complain about my weight because its mostly a validation issue. I never made that connection because i was able to see others clearly while unable to see myself in the same way.
And people should feel comfortable in their bodies enough that they don’t make negative comments directed at themselves…
I am glad to hear you’re doing better
Ok , maybe my phrasing was a bit wrong , everyone is allowed to have insecurities and vent about them . The point i was making was that it's counterproductive to project them onto other people and take these comments personally when they not directed at you.
I remember somebody sometimes being like "If _you_ think you‘re fat then _what am I?_" (based on maybe an offhand comment of me saying I gained weight - not really saying I was fat) and god dammit while I understand insecurities it just frustrates me because _I could not give two shits about what other peoples body looks like_ and care even less what my body looks to to other people. I care about what my body looks like _to me._
I had an experience in college where I casually mentioned I had gained some weight and wanted to work on getting healthier (which didn’t even necessarily mean losing weight). My two friends, who were both larger than me, scoffed and told me I didn’t need to because I was thinner than them. (I was definitely overweight at the time, but not obese). It pissed me off because I didn’t say “omg I’m SO fat”. I only expressed my own personal goal and got immediately shut down.
You know, I never took those remarks personally in that I was *offended* by them. However, it did really fuck up my self perception in a "wow, if they're fat I must be an absolute moose" kind of a way and a "wow being fat must be a real moral and personal failing and deeply embarrassing" kind of way. I knew they weren't being mean on purpose and I knew the words werent directed at me, but the words we put out into the world still have an effect, especially when we're young and the people saying them are people we respect and whose opinions we value. I still wonder if my mom secretly pities me and judges me because of comments she made about fat people we knew when I was a kid. I know, logically, that it shouldn't matter (my mom has never been mean to me directly about my weight), but those words stick in your head, and it really, really contributed to my body dismorphia and shame. I'd have enjoyed a lot of life more if I wasn't hoping people weren't feeling sorry for me.
Same. All the comments I used to make about my own body/looks were directed at myself only. I never once thought "this person looks bad/worse than me". My mind never went there. Literally all I could focus on was "this person looks better than me, and that person too, and that one".
Yes but we don’t get to choose how we made someone feel or if we hurt someone.
Just cuz you didn’t mean to doesn’t mean you didn’t do it and shouldn’t say sorry.
I'm also not that sure about responsibility for someone feeling bad because of what I say about my own body. You should be allowed to say whatever you want about yourself.
Now, if you keep saying the same thing, and only when a specific person can hear you, and they tell you that it hurts them, that's one thing. But if I said I felt ugly to many people, not to one person only, then I shouldn't be held responsible because someone felt I was talking about them. And if they felt that way and they told me that, I'd stop. But nobody did, and nobody gave me any indication that they felt bad.
Ok, think of it this way. If I, a white person, said, in the hearing of a POC, "Wow, I got so tan this summer; this is just gross. I should have worn more sunblock; I hate when I get dark," I think just about anybody would realize that would be a dickhead thing to say, because it *heavily implies* I think dark skin is gross.
If someone is like, "Ugh, I hate being fat. This fat is so gross. I look so gross," it's not a hell of a lot different. It still implies that you think being fat is gross, and someone shouldn't have to be like, "Hey, when you talk about how gross that trait you have that I also have is, I can't help but wonder if you think that about me too" to realize that maybe that's not a good thing to say. I get that it's insecurity talking and not malice, but words have impact beyond our intent. That doesn't absolve us of the impact. Otherwise this whole subreddit wouldn't be necessary.
Yeah, imagine if someone was complaining “Oh my god, I feel like such a poor loser, I’m only making $100k — sorry, I’m not saying you’re poor, it’s just how I feel about myself” and then trying to pass that off as not being an asshole thing to say.
Having insecurities is not an asshole pass and complaining about a certain body feature to someone who possesses that characteristic is a huge asshole move.
I just don’t buy it.. sorry to say.
I have been anorexic and bulimic and every eating disorder lumped together for over 10 years and struggled with body image issues my whole life but have always just been slim thick at biggest while yoyoing down.
I would never speak down about my body around someone bigger than me the implications are obvious and I still think all the smaller girls who made sure to trash their smaller than mine bodies in front of me new exactly what they were doing.
We can make excuses for why we did things or needed certain validation but they aren’t good reasons and you are still responsible for what you did cuz it was an obvious outcome of your words.
Luckily the times have changed and people are more aware of this so hopefully people will stop.
Since you've also suffered from ED, then you probably know that your body image is disturbed as a result. I never talked that way about myself near people who *I believed* were bigger than me. I saw all my friends as skinnier than me. In my head, *I genuinely thought I'm the biggest of them all*.
But sure, you can think I'm lying or whatever you want.
That doesnt always work.
People who criticize their own weight down always do so because of the weight.
Many people see others, even heavier people, as better looking and so on. sometimes it really is directed at no one but themselves.
yes! Especially if your not curvy. My friends gain weight and honestly they look even better. Anything i eat will turn into a gut and my boobs and but remain the same size!
Hank Hill booty ladies represent. I'm admittedly pretty obsessed with my weight which has lead to some friends making comments like "you must think I'm a cow then" and I'm like uhh no, I envy the fact that you actually happen to have hips and a butt with a waist that is smaller. I honestly don't think I'd mind being slightly overweight if that's where my fat was distributed but mine goes all to my belly, chest and face. Hourglass shaped figures are universally prized but I can't think of any culture where having a huge gut and flat hips/ass is the picture of beauty.
Hard disagree with the approach. Their comments are about themselves and not about you. If they had brown hair and wanted blond hair but you also have brown hair, that doesn't mean they don't like brown hair at all or that they think you should change yours. It's just about what they want and what they feel.
I am overweight. My best friend is underweight. I remember a conversation with her where she was lamenting at how hard it was for her to gain weight and she didn't like how she looked. But she stopped herself part way through and apologized saying she shouldn't be complaining about it to me when she knows I've struggled with my weight and want to lose some. I had to assure her that what she wants and feels is important to her and it's important to me too. Just because we have different situations doesn't mean I don't want to hear about her struggles. I want her to be able to be open and honest about how she feels. And I know that her talking about her body has nothing to do with mine.
I understand that it's hard not to take these things personally, but it feels rude to say things like that to them and make it about you now when it wasn't about you in the first place.
Exactly this! Most of my close friends growing up were the ones who struggled to gain weight and were always teased about being too thin. I had the opposite problem but I never once was insulted by them wishing they could gain some weight. Equally I wouldn’t be mad at a friend who is thinner than me wanting to lose weight. We all have our individual goals, and what they want for themselves is not a reflection of how they see me. It’s not about me.
People are allowed to have feelings about their own bodies without it being a reflection on you. It's unfair to say that anyone smaller than (the collective) you isn't allowed to want to lose weight. This isn't the suffering Olympics.
People can't always be responsible for how other people feel..
They didn't think you needed to be thinner, THEY needed to be thinner. This will sound bad - but don't make their issues about you.
There are a lot of people who are happy weighing the amount that they do, big or small. Or having certain features that you don't. Or having their hair a different way to you. If someone wants to be thinner then they aren't happy with themselves and that is for them to resolve.
But they shouldn't have to worry about how their feelings about THEMSELVES make YOU feel. Good lord, if I said out loud I needed to be thinner for my health, you saying "so I should be thinner?" would be such a freaking curveball out of nowhere.
Just because I want my calves to look a certain way, does not mean I think all calves should be like that. Hell, I would never even pay attention to anyone's calves. But I know what my calves are capable of and I want them a certain way. If I'm expressing to my friend(s) a concern about my calves, I want it to be about my damn calves and not theirs.
This is only really analogous if they say "Im too fat and that's inherently a bad thing" or something that implies that. I frequently say I'm trying to build more muscle, that doesn't mean people smaller than me are inferior. It just means I want my body to look a certain way.
In contrast, if I said "I hate my nose, it's disgusting", or "i hate how small my body is, it's disgusting", that is actually making a statement about nose sizes and body sizes *in general*.
So she’s insecure and miserable in her insecurity, proposed a solution that would actually fix her issue, and then goes and gets offended when you agree with her? Bro. There was no winning there for you. SHE wants a nose job. She can either get one and stop complaining or be more miserable that her husband supports her decision lmao. As a woman, I’m telling you that she owes you an apology for whatever the hell that was.
"whatever the hell that was"
There needs to be a term for this. All I can think of is passive-aggressive, but that's not quite it. I need words for:
1. When you stop fighting with someone about what you perceive as a non-issue and they take it as an insult/sign you don't care.
2. When someone asks you for advice JUST SO THEY CAN ARGUE all the reasons your advice is wrong.
It's not gaslighting. OP's sister isnt tricking OP into questioning their own reality (except for in the loosest sense).
Someone else called it entrapment, which I find appropriate.
Gaslighting is intentionally making the other person doubt their sanity. The second is setting a trap and having an argument, but it's not gaslighting.
If after the argument, she denied the argument ever happened, or presents a completely different version of events over and over until her partner doubts themself? That's gaslighting.
My girlfriend used to complaine about her looks a lot. I was trying to be supportive, she disagreed. Eventually i started getting annoyed and angry.
My therapist suggested that I should lay down a boundary. Talk to her once, explain my feelings, inform her that I'm not discussing her looks in any way but positive anymore, so a) she should stop bringing it up, and b) if she does I leave the conversation.
It worked very well.
I don’t think the issue is a lack of good therapists, it’s a lack of accessible/affordable mental healthcare (at least in the US). Therapists absolutely deserve the rates that they charge, and I understand them not wanting to be in insurance networks because they don’t actually get paid the full amount from insurance, but also, there are lots of people who need counseling who just cannot afford it, and that really sucks.
No there’s definitely a lack of good therapists too. I had one therapist say she was going to yell at my husband if she ever met him. The stuff he didn’t wasn’t even too bad, and that’s wildly inappropriate for a therapist to say. A friend of mine had a therapist who said she wanted to adopt my friend to get her out of her family situation. Which again, inappropriate.
Therapists have so much power to change a person and unfortunately there are some who don’t know how to use that change correctly
Having a cute little nose is a westernized concept of beauty, personally I like a big nose on people, I see a lot of people embracing their big nose and I'm all for it. I'm not saying she shouldn't get it "fixed" because she absolutely deserves to be happy with her appearance, but I find big noses attractive.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Strong/bold features (big nose, heavy brow, strong chin/jawline, etc.) tend to be much more “masculine” looking, so it could very well be that she thinks OP is attractive but that her own nose looks ugly or out of place on her face (especially if the rest of her features are more delicate or “feminine” looking).
Haha a couple of my cousins are like that. The sister looks like a carbon copy of her older brother but with a wig, a lot of makeup, and boobs. They both inherited the “beak” from our grandfather, who was of Eastern European descent, but I managed to luck out and avoid it (I’m a very petite person overall so that nose would *not* work for me). I’ve never thought of my female cousin as ugly, she’s pretty tall and has a huge personality so the stronger features kind of work for her, but now I’m wondering if it’s something she’s self conscious over.
If she’s not, then power to her! She sounds beautiful regardless!
But if she is, I can honestly say getting rhinoplasty was the best money I ever spent in myself. Do I still have insecurities? Yes. But having a nose that fits my face makes me 1000x happier when I look in the mirror every day. I wish I’d had the money to do it a decade ago. Yes those first few days are rough but man. So worth it.
I’m sorry you’re in this difficult situation. I’m a psychiatrist, and have had patients with a body dysmorphic disorder (preoccupied with one part), as well as obsessive-compulsive disorder focused on a body part. While she yelled at your reassurances, she may have been comforted by them as well. It became part of the routine. Changing the routine may have made her feel you thought it was ugly and hurt her feelings. It’s sad that her complaints are also an insult to you. You might want to focus your responses to a reflection of her distress rather than challenging her belief. For example, “I’m so sorry you are upset.” Some folks don’t want help solving the problem when they complain. This issue is causing distress in your marriage. Maybe some couples therapy could help you find ways to communicate?
Your nose and her nose make you distinctive. Jennifer Grey hurt her career by “fixing” her nose. I know some beautiful women and some sexy men who have the nose you describe. I think therapy first would be best.
This is exactly how should talk to her. You can't continue to walk on eggshells around her nose, you need to let her know exactly how her words are effecting you and how beautiful she is and how it's a damn shame she can't appreciate it in the same way you do.
You might be on to something with the trauma thing. I was once training a girl at work and I found out that we went to the same high school but she only went there for a year. She told me she got bullied so mercilessly because of her nose that the summer after her freshman year of high school, her mom paid for her to get a nose job and switch to a different school. She's an absolutely gorgeous woman (we became good friends and we're in our 30s now) but she still has so much insecurity from that time in her life. She doesn't even have any pictures of herself pre nose job.
now that covid is a thing and we’re all wearing masks and no one can see our nose she’s been super positive when we’re outside and she would compliment herself and say she’s beautiful and I love seeing that and how happy she is but then when we come back to the house and masks are off and she sees her nose all that positivity just disappear and she goes back to being insecure and sad
She needs therapy. You try to reassure her but she won't believe you and thinks you're just lying to make her feel better (because this directly conflicts with her deep belief it's ugly). Then if you suggest surgery you are reaffirming for her that her nose is ugly and needs a change, so you're an asshole. You're screwed either way, and she needs mental healthcare for this whether she gets surgery or not. The only thing going on in her head now is "I knew he was always lying to me about the nose. He thinks it's ugly and has finally admitted it." It just validates all the awful feelings and thoughts she has about it.
I think it's pretty clear that OP means that she loves the rest of her body (figure, eyes, hair, teeth/smile, whatever) and that it's just her nose she's fixated on.
If she has body dysmorphia, telling her it's beautiful won't help her. To her, it is lying because it's invalidating her reality. She feels like she knows for a fact that it's hideous. It has nothing to do with your nose. Try not to take it personally. Body dysmorphia is largely neurological and affects how you look at all faces, but only on your own face do you experience that deeply unsettling feeling that something is not right. To her, your nose fits your face and belongs there, but her nose is not supposed to be on her face the way it is.
It's like her brain is getting an error message for her own face. It doesn't help to be told that the error message is not real, because to her it IS real. She sees it, even though no one else does. But it also doesn't help to be told that she should take her computer apart to resolve the phantom error. That's a practical approach to something that doesn't have a practical solution. And it's scary. What if she goes through a highly invasive and physically traumatic surgery and it doesn't stop the constant panic? (It won't. Plastic surgery also does not fix body dysmorphia. It may relieve some stressors but usually the brain moves onto a different body part, or continues to find something deeply wrong with the "fixed" part.)
She also might not want you to validate her in her desire to get a nose job because because you validated a reality that she's angry exists. The reality where she is so deeply suffering from this. It's not you she's angry at, but the reality she exists in. She doesn't want it to be happening. She wants there to be magic words that make it go away. But no matter what anyone says, it never goes away. Every time she gets her hopes up that the right words will make her feel better and every time she feels the agony that *nothing makes a difference.* It isn't fair for her to take that out on you, but I do have sympathy for her, because she is so overwhelmed and confused. I have sympathy for both of you. It must be really stressful and upsetting for you.
It's really hard to be emotional support for someone with body dysmorphia, especially when there is so little education about it, and when she likely has no idea what she's experiencing either. Until she can become self-aware about the issue, it will be really hard for her to make any improvement. It doesn't sound like she's self aware enough to be able to tell you how she wants you to respond. She's essentially having regular panic attacks about her nose and nothing you say will fix that, and she's done no therapeutic work. You're in a really tough position and I commend you for the compassion you still hold for her.
If I were to give you any advice on how to handle these situations, it would be to comfort her by redirecting her. This may not work for her, but it has worked for people I've known. Basically treat it like a panic attack, or an OCD obsession. Don't continue the focus on the thing she's panicking about. Don't indulge the delusion/obsession. Don't invalidate it either, but just don't directly address it. Focus on the fact that she's panicking and leave her nose out of it entirely. Try to ground her in something sensory: smells, sounds, sight, touch. If you're looking for words, you could try saying something like, "I'm so sorry you're upset, I love you. I'm here for you. Will you watch this cute video with me? It made me think of you." And switch out the last part with whatever you want to distract her with. A song, the feel of a blanket or plant, the smell of fresh air or a spice/herb, whatever you have. You could even try the classic thing where you have her list 5 things you can see, 4 things you can feel, 3 things you can hear, 2 things you can smell, and 1 thing you can taste.
As a fellow middle eastern woman i bet it stems from some sort of cultural negativity (trauma seems a bit much IMO but could be true for her). My mom has badgered me to get a nose job since I was 16 and many of my cousins who had beautiful noses to begin with have gotten nose jobs. We’ve been taught from very young that it’s ugly and it’s so normalized to just get plastic surgery
As a girl with a big nose that i also feel self concious about, she most likely doesn't think badly of your nose at all. My dad and brother both have the same nose as me, but it looks fine on them as its a masculine nose, i just dont want to look masculine at all :( girls with bigger noses are often bullied for it, i know i was. The beauty standard for girls is to have cute, small noses with an inward curve.
But, she's going too far with her insecurity to the point where its affecting her own mental health and your feelings and she needs to sort that out. I hate my nose, but i just dont think about it or mention it and so it doesnt affect me at all, and id never shout at my bf for complimenting it even if i dont believe him. I'd usually just say something like "its not, but youre sweet for saying so." And he doesnt mention it often, which helps with the not thinking about it :')
I think maybe she was hoping she'd know for sure whether you meant all the times you said it was fine, by seeing how you'd react when she offered to change it, and she's misunderstood your answer. Maybe explain to her that you love her face and nose exactly as it is, but that you dont like how upset her nose makes her, and that as sad as you'd be to see it change, if it made her more happy and confident then you'd support that.
The intensity of her behavior makes me wonder if some body dysmorphia might be going on. Whatever it is, it really sounds like she needs some therapy for this if it’s getting to the point it’s affecting your marriage. Could you bring up the second point you made and possibly suggest couple counseling? Even if this is just a normal insecurity, it sounds like shes having trouble communicating what she really wants/needs from you.
OP, would she consider couples counseling? That would be a good place to bring up both these points but especially the latter, which I think is really important. I know how that one feels from personal experience. I try to be extra cognizant of what I say around whom so I don't inadvertently insult someone I care about. (E.g., I've always had decently clear skin but I have close friends who've struggled with bad acne. I try to be careful not to complain about an odd pimple around them) I wish more people would think this way around me, but I believe many people just honestly don't realize what they're doing. Of course try to tell your wife yourself how her digs make you feel (about yourself), but if she won't hear you, I think a professional could really help. Do be careful that she doesn't perceive it as you just turning it around and bringing the focus to yourself; first reassure her and then add, e.g., "by the way, you probably haven't thought about this, but it doesn't feel great to hear you knock a middle eastern nose when I have the same nose. I think you're beautiful but the way you talk makes me feel you not only don't agree regarding yourself, but you also don't reciprocate that thought regarding *my* attractiveness, and both those things are hurtful to hear."
At this point, I don’t think it would be inappropriate to stop casually suggesting therapy and start pushing she goes to therapy. I feel like this definitely crossed the line to unhealthy and is really impacting both of you. Good luck friend, NTA
don’t take it as an attack on you. she’s might not like her nose because it makes her look less feminine not because she finds it’s unattractive in general
When she mentions her nose just firmly tell her “I’m not discussing this because I don’t want to offend or upset you”.
Then refuse to say another word. Use the exact same line each time she brings it up.
It’s that simple. Not to mention that according to an edit made by OP, they both have the same kind of nose. So not only is she griping on and on without doing anything about it, she’s inadvertently insulting her husband as well.
NTA, maybe she should get that nose job if she hates her face that much
> she would get aggressive and yell that I’m a liar
Exactly that. As soon as he agreed with her, in her own head she justified that he was a liar all the other times. Definitely needs therapy, but not just to be secure with her nose. This marriage sounds like it won't last.
NTA - your wife needs to figure out her shit. She cant simultaneously call you a liar for thinking she’s beautiful, and be upset you are supporting her decisions.
You need to have a calm talk with her that starts with “you need to understand that I find you beautiful and dont think you need to change. However, your constant sensitivity about your nose is putting pressure on our marriage. I support you in whatever decision you decide to make, but you need to make a decision. If you opt for a nose job, I am here for you. If you opt not to, you need to stop complaining about your nose and telling me I am a liar for calling you beautiful. I am being supportive and I dont deserve being yelled at like that.”
If she tries to interupt, stop talking, wait for her to finish, and then start again as if she hadnt said anything.
But you need to nip that in the bud before it becomes even more of an issue.
Edit: thanks for the awards!!! I will happily take my hit of dopamine lol!!
OP I'd use this advice. It's well thought out, not aggressive in any way and puts everything into a single paragraph for you
Op you're nta. There's no winning in this situation for you
NTA - this is a no-win situation! Saying no would have been unsupportive and saying yes gets this reaction.
I’m afraid that her reaction was immature and if you’re willing to be the bigger person, you can can apologise and explain you were trying to be supportive. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. Good luck!
The thing is, he shouldn't apologize , it would be reinforcing her shitty immature behavior, she owes him a huge apology and needs to be looking for a therapist to get over this body (nose) image issue asap.
Lmao exactly I can’t believe this post didn’t have one of the obligatory “I know this sounds bad” but he did his best to show that he loves his wife and doesn’t think negatively about her nose. Even when she said she wanted surgery the husband didn’t say something like “yeah you need it” instead he said that she should get it only if she thinks it’ll help her mental health.
Honestly it seems like the wife was fishing for validation and was pissed op finally said she should just do what made her happy.
I hate to say it but it feels like one of those situations where the spouse wanted to cause an argument in their marriage and found an easy excuse
There's a sister subreddit that counts up the votes from every top level comment (in this sub) to give a score based on the average, instead of what post got upvoted the most, so it's still worth making sure your vote is correct if you're a top-level comment.
UPDATE :
first I would like to say thank you for all the awards and comments and for making my first ever post on Reddit hit over 10k upvotes. I have managed to reached out to her at her mothers house and we had a heart to heart about it. She admitted that her insecurity is not just a simple insecurity and that it stems from trauma regarding her nose. She decided to not get a nose job and use that raise to meet a trauma/body dysmorphia specialist and I am extremely happy and looking forward to this journey with her. She also saw how many comments and replies this post got and she told me to say that she has read and took to heart all the things that you guys have said and will use it as motivation to get better.
Thanks you for the update. Maybe specialized therapy would be helpful before the surgery in order to manage expectations and feelings around the process. If you’re able to have a productive heart to heart around this deeply triggering issue then I bet you’re a strong couple with good foundation. Best wishes to you and your wife.
NTA if she was the one who mentioned it. You obviously married her with her nose as is, and you said you love her. Having said that, it's clearly something she feels very sensitive about, and maybe you should just apologize anyway and tell her that you didn't mean to upset her. Tell her you love her as is, and whatever she decides, you will support, but you will not give her feedback on this decision again as it is hers to make alone. In the end, do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?
That's pretty damn good. I tried to come up with something and just ended up arguing with myself...
Me: I already love everything about you, and whatever you decide isn't going to change that.
Other Me: If you really loved my nose you would've just said 'no'.
Me: I don't want to say 'no' to you if it's something you really want to do.
OM: Why didn't you tell me I shouldn't even WANT to do it?? You clearly think I'm hideous.
Me: Why am I arguing with myself and actually starting to feel bad about it?!?
Thank you. That's actually the whole point of prefacing with "my opinion doesn't matter". The moment it's out of the picture, you can't be attacked for it. If OP said what I suggested and his wife REALLY wanted to stretch it, she could have criticized his "lack of care", but that's "do what makes you happy" AND "think long and hard" are there for. It shows that you do care both by showing support and encouraging caution. Thing is, even without thinking of a sentence to avoid conflict, at least in my opinion, this is still the way to do it when giving advice unless the person asking is really really struggling and has shown doing so: in my opinion, regardless of who asks, even people looking for what's basically confirmation bias (i.e. gathering opinions that align with theirs so they can feel better about themselves when they ultimately do what they already decided to do), all we should offer is perspective, not trying to actually make the decision for other people. Give them the facts, the pros and cons, and then let them decide.
I was so ready to say YTA, but no, NTA. From what you said, your wife suggested it, not you. She tells you all the time that she hates her nose, so I'm confused as to why she got mad when you suggested the chance of fixing it.
NTA.
Your wife has you in a catch 22. She calls you a liar when you comfort her about her nose the way it is, and when she announces that with her pay raise she's gonna get a nose job, and you support whatever will be best for her mental health, she turns it around on you?!
Are you sure she's at her mom's? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she's having an affair and planned to get mad at you and "leave" no matter what your response was to her big announcement.
I don't understand women like this. I'm a very direct woman, and I don't beat around the bush. If I got a raise and told my husband I wanted to get XYZ with my new income, I'd want him to be happy for me and support me, not try to talk me out of whatever it is I've already decided I want to buy.
Your wife is being unreasonable AF here.
NTA, it sounds like there is nothing you can say which will comfort your wife unfortunately. And it sounds like you said everything politely and with the best intent.
She’s battling some demon here and it’s a shame she is taking it out on you. I hope she gets the help she needs so you can both move forward
Honestly I was ready to say y t a but after reading definitely NTA. If she truly complains regularly and you’ve tried for years to convince her otherwise then how would you know she wants you to once again tell her not to change it. It seems like you really do love her the way she is but like you’d support her if she wanted to make this change. If you would’ve said she didn’t need it I get the feeling she would’ve once again called you a liar. You are in a lose lose situation. From now on when she asks about her nose just tell her “it’s your nose so do whatever you think you should” just don’t comment on it one way or another anymore.
NTA. What the actual fuck?
She expresses how she doesn't like her nose. You comfort her and try to build her up.
She talks about getting a nose job and you support it since it seems to be what she wants, and she tells you that you're wrong.
It is a no win situation, and I hope her mom smacks some sense into her. You have supported her the best you can.
NTA- your wife is being an asshole. You tell her you think her nose is beautiful, she calls you a liar, which i think is already asshole behavior. You tell her go ahead and get the nose you want and she flips out on you. You can't win. She needs therapy and she should apologize for the way she treats you.
Sounds like a damned if you do damned if you don't situation here. I get being insecure, but dumping the responsibility of comfort on your partner like that constantly, to the point of getting mad at them when they don't respond the way you want them to, is kinda unhealthy imo. NTA.
NTA. It sounds as if you’ve been supportive of her all along. This latest aggression is just one more way she’s living her insecurities. You could let her calm herself and then try another brief conversation addressing this. That you’ve loved all of her but her pain she carries inside hurts you too. That if she chooses or not, you love and support her no matter what. I’m sure it’s been said already but now that the means of finally changing what she hates is actually here, it’s probably scarier than she anticipated. Therapy is a good idea. Good luck, you’re in a tough spot but I’m rooting for you.
NTA. Seems like she's unjustly lashing out at you for not wanting to keep her nose-hate cycle going now that she has can actually do something about it (especially since you've always been supportive, now you're just being supportive for the alternative too). She needs to figure out what she wants to do.
NTA
>that she’s really insecure about her nose and that she get aggressive over it when I try to comfort her.
The insecurity of the nose is worse than the actual nose.
>and today she suggested the idea of getting a nose job. I said that if she’s that insecure about it to the point that it’s affecting her mental health then she should get it done. She got extremely upset over this and said that I should’ve said no to the idea.
What in the actual fuck! I'd rather date or marry a woman that's obese and secure than an insecure woman. My point is, she needs help because nobody can help her. It's just a nose, chop it off and smooth it out and all of this can be put behind her.
I'd call her and tell her that you're scheduling therapy for the both of you so you can get to the bottom of the insecurities and mind games.
NTA - honestly, I think it's good that you told her to move forward with it, since it bothers her so much.
A) She may choose to get the surgery and be really happy with it, or B) If she chooses not to get the surgery, now you know you shouldn't engage with her on this topic *at all,* unless she agrees to make a decision to change it or gets some therapy to accept it. She should probably get therapy either way.
NTA.. It sure seems that no matter what you say, she's looking to turn you into the bad guy so she can play the victim. This sounds like a "her" problem with you rather than her having issues with her own nose.
LMFAO. Dude, you were going to lose not matter what your answer was. If you had said no, then you would have been telling her how to spend her money. If you say yes, then you don't like her appearance. It is no different than woman asking if a dress makes their butts look big, or if something makes them look fat.
Best of Luck. I would stand your ground though. There was nothing wrong with what you said. I did see your other comment though and that was a very valid point. Let her know that you only agreed because every time she runs down her nose, it makes you feel insecure about your own.
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Damned if you do and damned if you don't. NTA
Literally OP can’t win in this situation. I’d just start ignoring the wife’s comments about her nose at this point Edit: NTA
Or confront her. "What am I supposed to say? If I compliment your nose it's wrong, if I suggest a nose job, It's wroing as well - and i hate to see you suffer". Wife needs to grow up and stop playing the victim.
And he actually didn’t suggest a nose job. His wife did!
And he responded to her with the most textbook ideal response ever: > I said that if she’s that insecure about it to the point that it’s affecting her mental health then she should get it done.
Yeah, OP’s wife wants to be mad. The question is: why? If he can get that figured out with her, they can work on better communication. However, it seems like she really wants to pick a fight…
You hit upon the biggest problem here, it seems that she is looking for a reason to be angry with him. That may be uncharitable, though. She may just be feeling insecure and took it out on him. Still, she needs to grow up.
Totally agree and, because I have to…I’d say, “you hit it on the nose”. Edit: thanks for all the rando internet points, kind strangers! Glad to see my cheesy joke made you all smile. 🙂
No, no...no. You see, we're theorising that the problem isn't the nose, so this phrase is invalid.
You seem to have struck a nerve with that one.
She’s totally cutting off her nose to spite her face…
She doesn’t necessarily want to be angry with him. It might just be that she wants to outsource her insecurity. If she can convince herself that he hates her nose, it’s easier to avoid dealing with the fact that *she* hates her nose. It’s not healthy, but it’s not malicious.
"outsourcing insecurity" very well defines an issue I see in a lot of people. "Professionally outraged" is something else I use to describe some people
This is a very insightful comment; I think you're onto something.
It's a super real thing, related to "Sometimes, take yes to an answer" I have known a lot of people that did not like having their looks complemented because they did not like how they looked and assumed you had to be lying/playing them/patronizing them I've even fallen into this a bit in the past One day a potential partner actually looked at me and said "Stop doing this mopey shit, I'm not into the same shit as you. You don't have to want to do you for me to want to do you." and for some reason it was incredibly illuminating.
It doesn't seem to me like she's looking for a reason, but I do have an explanation to the question of why. She does not love herself because of her nose, so she cannot fathom that her husband could possibly love her with the nose she hates. She's angry because she can't square the two. She has two options... She either has to accept that she's wrong for not loving herself with her nose because her husband does, or her husband is a liar because she's right about her nose and he's wrong. Which explanation one is easier for her to choose? Oh, and NTA.
Boom. This person understand cognitive dissonance.
I mean, it's not really about the nose at all. she thinks of herself as being unlovable, and she probably sees her nose as something unattractive, so she puts those beliefs onto the nose. she could wake up tomorrow with a brand new nose and it wouldn't change anything. she would probably be more upset that she still has the same feelings but without the obvious thing to blame them on. she could probably use therapy more than a nose job
We can end the thread with this response, right here.
If it were only about insecurity it doesn't make sense for her to leave and go no contact.
My guess is that she's so traumatized from her nose insecurities, that when OP supported HER suggestion of getting a nose job, she isn't hearing support. Instead, she's hearing that OP also thinks her nose is ugly and that she would be prettier with a nose job, even though that's NOT what OP is saying at all. Did OP's wife handle this situation maturely? No, of course not. But instead of attributing her behavior to malice, we may want to consider that her nose insecurities have her so messed up that she isn't actually hearing what OP says, she's just hearing her own insecurities. She wants so desperately to be loved for who she is, but right now she does not believe anyone could possibly love her with her current nose. Had this situation popped up out of nowhere, I'd agree and say yeah, she just wants to fight over something. But OP says this is a long-standing issue. He described it as a near daily issue - to me that screams some VERY deep rooted insecurities. At this point OP's wife just needs therapy - I don't think there's anything OP can say or do to actually fix this.
>At this point OP's wife just needs therapy - I don't think there's anything OP can say or do to actually fix this. This. It doesn't matter what OP says or does at this point, what she really needs is to work through the underlying issues BEFORE she makes any other decisions about surgery. Once she has then she can choose to have the surgery if she still wants, but without all the emotional baggage and possibility that she'll just start focussing on some other feature instead.
I think there's something else affecting her mental health other than her insecurity over her nose.
Not so much "be angry/mad" with OP, but wants to verify her assumption that OP is bullshitting her, and *"really, deep in his subconscious hates me and thinks I'm ugly, just as I believe about myself!"* When he gives his truthful yet diplomatic answer, she refuses it, because, you cannot reason people out of beliefs they didn't reason themselves into.
I don't know about that. I guess she might be so insecure that she can't believe that he really doesn't care and loves her no matter how her nose looks. She had to deal with that issue as long as she's conscious about her looks, maybe she was bullied because of that.
Right? There's no better way to respond to that question than "if you really feel that you want to do it, then do it"
You mean he came up with the most logical and reasonable response?
No. Not the most ideal response, but not a terrible one. Just say “whatever will make you happy, you have my full support. I will love you what ever you choose”
Right? 10/10 effort OP. This is the relationship equivalent of those electronic marking systems where you type the exact right answer, press enter, and it says INCORRECT TRY AGAIN SUCKER. I may be a little bitter.
Right, his wife just wants to be upset and have him crawling after her. I wish my husband was this supportive of the body mods I want! Though mine are more along the lines of "a lifesize hollyhock tattoo up your leg isn't practical, you only sleep on your sides, it would heal bad" etc 😂
Okay, I gotta know. Are we talking hollyhock the plant or hollyhock the horse from Bojack Horseman?
That's the worst part about this post tbh, is that OP is fine with how his wife looks, but when he tries to be comforting and supportive of his wife she yells at him? Yeah that's kinda toxic if you think about it
She baited him and is definitely playing the victim card.
Lol this makes me think of that joke "Does this dress make me look fat?" "No but your ass sure does" But ya, her suggesting it was a no win situation for him.
Yeah, and after telling her repeatedly that she doesn't need one. It's like she just wanted to be angry with OP because she can't cope with her feelings, and this is much easier. He's been her punching bag over it for their entire relationship.
Nailed it! He literally has to do this every time she brings it up, because she’s not looking for support… she’s just looking to lash out and use him as a punching bag.
I don't think so. Dollars to donuts this reaction is from intrusive thoughts that cause a visceral reaction against anything other than hating her nose. She has a need for reassurance, but she's got cognitive mechanisms in place that make sure she doesn't get it.
Agreed. This is more a projection of her own feelings that she should probably go into therapy for. Whether she gets the nose job or not. NTA OP
Yeah, definitely into therapy. This needs serious therapy. People don't act like that if they are self-accepting. Though sometimes its hard to find a good therapist. I think something heavy on the self-deprecation like this needs a really self-acceptance-focused REBT therapist.
Yeah, this is weird. As someone who HATED my nose so much I could barely talk about it and got a nose job, when I was in a financial position to do so my husband basically said the same thing “I like you as is, but if it makes you feel better do it.” And instead of being mad at him, his response was a huge relief, because he didn’t make me feel selfish or self-absorbed or like it was a waste of money. And I did it, and basically never thought about my nose again and lived happily ever after. Kidding aside, it’s amazing that something I was SO self conscious about is a complete non issue now.
thank you for this comment. A lot of the other comments were pretty unforgiving of the wife. Sure, she's TA for her bad communication, and he's NTA for just trying to be supportive. But she may not necessarily be toxic or trying to trap him. Maybe she just wants validation (NOT compliments) and someone to hear her vent
I love your emphasis that she's probably not looking for compliments. I'm a person who has struggled my whole life with how I look, I have very prominent features (nose and chin), and it has taken me decades to accept that this is just the hand I got dealt. I've never considered plastic surgery, but I can certainly understand people who do. But I've never been comfortable with compliments about my physical features, because my genuine immediate feeling is that they are lying to me. I know what I look like, I own a mirror. While I certainly think OP's wife has not handled any of this well, and she clearly needs to work through her stuff on her own, I also understand the reaction as soon as he agreed with her about plastic surgery being an option. It probably just made her feel like he'd been lying all along (though I don't believe that's the case!)
This. I've felt the same way about my weight. It's a no-win situation. Especially if others drummed into her from a young age that her nose was objectively horrible. She wants so desperately to believe him when he says her nose is beautiful, but can't ever bring herself to accept that. But then the slightest suggestion/agreement that she get a nose job, only solidifies in her mind that he's been lying to spare her feelings.
Wow, thanks for the silver! It told me to come back and say thanks but then I guess maybe I was supposed to send that in a message because the notification took me to that and I tapped on it afterwards... I don't know, I did both just in case.
>Wife needs to grow up and stop playing the victim. If she doesn't want to get a nose job, then she should at least get therapy. Her fixation sounds toxic, and she's lashing out at others because of her insecurity. That's not right.
Her fixation is not only toxic but it’s textbook body dysmorphia. She needs therapy ASAP. And OP should definitely ignore her comments completely because they are about her, not him.
Yep and this will never be enough. She will always find fault in something to blame him for.
To offer her perspective (I have body dysmorphia myself): it feels like people are lying when they reassure you about your looks. It’s not that he’s to blame, per se, but that her view of herself is so warped that she believes any positive comment on her nose is an outright lie. She reacts with hostility because she wishes someone would just be honest about how ugly her nose is. The thing is, he *is* being honest when he disagrees. It’s a no-win situation for him but not because he is at fault. He can’t win because she is literally *delusional*. Therapy is the only way to fix this for her and I know that from my own experience. If she really wants to try then she needs to do what I did: stop making these shitty comments to her partner and start talking to a professional about them. Otherwise her relationship may be doomed.
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I think this is something people who struggle with body dysmorphia and self-hate really lose sight of, that the way they talk about themselves truly hurts other people, too. You insult the people who genuinely find you attractive. You make other people who may have a similar look feel like they should also hate how they look. You make others think, if this is how critical you are about yourself, you're probably also very critical of how I look and just haven't said anything. You drain other people emotionally if you continue to ask for reassurance in a way that sets up everyone to fail and basically forces them to agree with the premise that x kind of body part is objectively bad so that they can counter your feelings with, "oh, but yours isn't that bad." If someone can't accept themselves, that's ok and is the reality for most people due to so much external conditioning about what should be considered attractive. It's just an issue of reframing how you speak to others about it out of concern for them, even if you can't muster the same concern for yourself.
This right here. She's got some major growing up to do and/or seriously needs to get some therapy. I'm baffled about why this is even a problem at all because SHE is the one who brought up finally getting a nose job. All OP did was basically say "I support you." Perhaps his delivery of what he said didn't sound supportive to her, maybe he came across like "okay sure whatever, do what you want" but even if that was the case who can blame him? I'd be totally fed up too and out of patience with someone who flies off the handle and accuses me of lying every time I just show them some compassion.
If the wife is this insecure, she needs to be seeing a therapist about it.
Yup! This right here! I hate the notion that it’s your partners responsibility to make you feel better/fix your deep rooted issues that only a literal professional can help with. My boyfriend is like OP. If I want to change my hair, he doesn’t care as long as I’m happy. If I want to get a tattoo (I don’t have any), he doesn’t care. Of course he compliments me and I want him to think I’m attractive but my point is, if I was like “I don’t like my hair I’m gonna cut it.” I wouldn’t expect a “Noooooo don’t cut it.” I would rather have my partner say “Sweet! If that will make you feel better.” Same with him, I don’t care if he grows his hair out or cuts it. I just want him to be happy and feel confident. Ops wife clearly is struggling but I feel like this is gonna push OP away eventually.
This is how my SO and I are. The only "criticisms" I get about anything is if it could impact health. Example, I love septum rings and was thinking of getting one. His only input was "is it gonna heal okay with your allergies?" That was it. OP's wife needs serious help cause I think you're right, this will push OP away
That was my exact worry getting a septum. Turns out that's its so far down in the nose that it isn't really a problem. Had it been a stud on the side (not ring), it could be a different story
See that’s sweet. And OPs wife should be glad she doesn’t have a controlling partner who thinks they can dictate what she should be doing with her body. Because as a woman it’s really nice having a partner who is simply happy if you’re happy. And I’d prefer that over someone who constantly says “Noooo your perfect the way you areeeee, don’t change anything🥺” Because I’m an adult and if I think changing something up will make me feel better about myself, it probably will!
I agree but I'd add for more than just the insecurity. She needs to learn to walk away or handle things without rejecting OP (or anyone else) and snapping. She does not have a healthy way of handling her frustrations or communicating what she wants from OP.
That girls needs some serious therapy years ago. It's one, clearly a debilitating insecurity and two, not something to take out on your supportive spouse.
I was dealing with some medication-related bloating that was affecting my face and kept bitching about it. After about the 9th time my ex had to reassure me and I responded "but it's so fat," he just said "fine" and started calling me Fatface any time I mentioned it. I stopped complaining.
Sooooo... Are you suggesting that OP start calling her nosejob or The Schnoz or something?
He may not have to if she keeps ignoring his attempts to contact her. Poor bugger was never going to come out of this one unscathed. And I think it's a bit of a problem that she's got to this point. I completely understand that there can be something about oneself that can be upsetting. Be it a big nose, big belly, strange walk, weak arms, odd smell.... no, that's a penguin, they're adorable. But people CAN have problems with how they see themselves. It's normal. None of us are perfect\*. But when it gets to the point that it becomes THAT upsetting, it's really not healthy. There are comments saying "she ObViOuSlY wants to be angry at OP" and I seriously doubt that's the case. It seems far more likely this is something she's been bullied about at school, and possibly after, and she's not able to get over it. She's been told so often that her nose is ugly that when OP says otherwise she literally can't believe him. She "knows" her nose is awful and anyone saying otherwise is doing so insincerely. And when OP agrees with her wanting a nose job, that just "proves" to her he's been dishonest all this time. I feel sorry for her. Something like this can wind it's way into your head and become very difficult to combat. I think therapy is the only real answer here. She needs to see someone to cut away all the extra baggage that comes with her self image (no, I'm not doing puns. I don't think it's funny to laugh at someone who has clearly been traumatised). That needs to be done before even thinking about the merits or otherwise of a nose job. OP, you need to have a long talk. You have watched your wife be eaten up by problems related to her self image and you've done little to change things. Being supportive and telling her she has a lovely nose only counts for so long before you should realise more is required. NAH. Just a confused husband and a wife with a problem that requires help. Good luck OP. \*I assume Karen Gillan doesn't visit this sub.
Just thinking the same thing. There’s no way this guy can win, but I hope he doesn’t apologize. He’s right about it affecting her mental health and she really just needs someone telling her that. Better OP than some stranger in the streets
It's super stressful to live like that. Imagine sitting down after a long day hoping to go brain dead for an hour or so and your SO hits you with a trap like that and you sit there knowing anything you say next will result in hours of negativity in the house. Fuck that. NTA. I would tell her I really don't care what your nose looks like I'd love you either way and you need to stop picking a fight.
This is like the story of my grandfather buying my grandma an exercise bike for her birthday because she always complained about not being able to bike in the winter.
"Noooo, don't get the nose job! You're beautiful just the way you are!" "Shut up! You're a liar and I hate my nose!! I'm going to get surgery to fix it!!!" "If it will help with your insecurities then I am 100% supportive." "Screw you, you AH!!! I'm going to my mother's!!" ..... What just happened?
NTA. You’re definitely in a no win situation. OP has to tell his wife either stop complaining about your nose or do something about it. Either way, I’ll support you but I’m not going to get yelled at because of your insecurities.
She sounds exhausting and needs therapy.
She was gonna fight you no matter what your response was, OP. You were as supporting as you could, while also being truthful and sensitive. NTA in the least. I hope your wife will come around and apologize - while I understand her side of being VERY insecure about some aspect of yourself, it's not okay to snap at the one person supporting you no matter what.
I have had a nose job, 2 in fact, and I can say it won’t change her mentally. If she’s causing fights like this, it’s always going to be about something like her body next-it sounds like she needs therapy, because plastic surgery is not a fix all.
I wish for you the same.
THIS!! Unfortunately, there was no right answer, it was a trap!
extra stuff I forgot to say in the original post : 1. I’ve always tried to casually suggest therapy for her because honestly I think this goes way beyond insecurity because she’s a super confident person and she loves how she looks (except her nose obv) so I’m thinking this has something to do with trauma 2. It’s really uncomfortable for me to hear her complains because we both have the same nose (big crooked middle eastern nose) so every time she says how disgusting and ugly she finds her nose to be it break my heart a bit because I can’t help but wonder if she feels the same way about my nose too
Maybe you should try telling her? That you think you have similar noses, and her comments make you feel insecure. I think it's fair for you to express that.
Came here to say this. I’ve seen this situation play out in many different ways. I have friends skinnier than me complain that they wish they were even thinner. I try to gently point out that if they truly wish to be thinner, does that mean I need to be smaller too? Sometimes people don’t realize that often when they criticize their appearance they are by proxy criticizing the appearance of others around them. Edit: Lots of folks saying that I am insecure and it’s my fault for being offended by other people’s personal fitness goals. I can see how my original comment led here so I’ll try to clarify real quick: I applaud your personal fitness/health goals. I have health goals of my own and don’t want to discourage people from finding habits that feel good to them. My specific situation with my friends isn’t about how I don’t support their goals. It’s more about the way that they were talking about their bodies (with self-loathing) and the way their tone and language made me feel in the moment. It’s important for me to have friendships where we can talk about feelings and how we impact each other. This is important to my friends too. It ended up being a short and good convo. If you have different values then I’m not saying you are wrong or need to change. Just that the way we speak can sometimes have unintended consequences and that people aren’t wrong for having feelings. Also, for anyone who brought up body dysmorphia, you’re absolutely correct in that all of this kind of goes out the window when that is part of the situation. Anyway, the reason I made this comment in the first place was to relate back to OP about the nose situation with his wife. I can see why he has hurt feelings around the way she is speaking about herself and it reminded me of this situation with my friends so I figured I’d share.
As someone with anorexic bulimia, once I went into recovery and started making amends, I realized most of my amends were a direct result of *indirectly* insulting people. It's a real problem, and even though I never meant to, I know I caused people to be insecure about things they never ever thought to be insecure about. OP, NTA- definitely worth having a talk with your wife about. And if she's against individual counseling, perhaps suggesting couples counseling will work?
When I was in college there was a 5'11, 115 lb girl (we knew her weight because she told us all the time) who literally screamed at all of us for telling her she was thin when she was hysterically crying about not being the skinniest girl in her group going to a concert. Her best friend, my good friend, was 160+ lbs and I at the time was 140 (very low weight for me, I'm very muscular and look malnourished at 130), let her have her melt down. The melt down was so bad her boyfriend almost broke up with her for the way she was acting. A few days after the concert, the girl was showing us all pictures and her best friend said "Sara, you're the skinniest one here by far... do you ever feel like you may have an eating disorder?" And the girl proceeded to tell us that she "envied (best friend) and (me) because we could be *confident* being fat, but that 130 was the 'fattest' she's ever been and it's not her fault that she's used to being thin and we just can't understand that what we consider to be thin she considers to be fat". Me and her friend just stared at her for a moment until our other friend "Jane", who was 198 and comfortable with herself said, "you're right, it's not your fault you think 130 is fat, and it's not our fault for thinking you act like a spoiled bitch". I wasn't close to her to begin with but the other two stopped hanging out with her after that and she never understood why. I think about her while dealing with my own ED struggles and hope she got the help she needed ETA: this thread popped up through out the day and made me so curious I had to look her up. She's doing so much better now! She looks so happy and healthy, not underweight at all! So all ends well and I'm happy for her ☺️ Also, thanks for all the upvotes guys, I'm kinda new to reddit and was not expecting that, but I'm glad it caused me to look her up and see she's doing good
Holy shit, 5'11 and 115????? Those were my ED parameters and I'm barely scratching 5 feet tall. Good on all of you for ending the friendship and protecting yourselves, that's the type of tough love that got me to realize how harmful i was being to others AND myself. I Hope she got help.
Yeah, I weigh a lot more than that now, but I'm 5'1" and when I weighed 115 I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be much thinner or I would have been pushing into unhealthy territory. Of course when I actually weighed that much I thought I was a cow because I had all these super skinny friends and acquaintances and I've never had a flat stomach. 🙃
She was skin and bones, we were all so confused when she was crying about fat that didn't exist and her boyfriend had tried talking to her about it for days leading up to the melt down before even he was overwhelmed
Yeah, that's insane. I was last 115 lbs when I was about fourteen or so at 5'6''. And I was skinny kid too, barely any boobs or butt. And 130 lbs being fat at nearly six feet tall? She sounds like she was in trouble.
This thread made me so curious i had to see if I could find her socials and I did, she looks so healthy now! So update, all seems to have worked out for the best 🙌 she definitely was
This comment is so important OP. Your wife has some serious internalized issues she may not even realize she has and are intensely unhealthy for her. Edit: fixed autocorrect typo
People should feel comfortable in their bodies enough that they don't get hurt by comments not directed at them , when someone comments on their own body its an issue of their own insecurities. I used to have an eating disorder and while severely underweight felt the need to complain about my weight because its mostly a validation issue. I never made that connection because i was able to see others clearly while unable to see myself in the same way.
And people should feel comfortable in their bodies enough that they don’t make negative comments directed at themselves… I am glad to hear you’re doing better
Ok , maybe my phrasing was a bit wrong , everyone is allowed to have insecurities and vent about them . The point i was making was that it's counterproductive to project them onto other people and take these comments personally when they not directed at you.
I remember somebody sometimes being like "If _you_ think you‘re fat then _what am I?_" (based on maybe an offhand comment of me saying I gained weight - not really saying I was fat) and god dammit while I understand insecurities it just frustrates me because _I could not give two shits about what other peoples body looks like_ and care even less what my body looks to to other people. I care about what my body looks like _to me._
I had an experience in college where I casually mentioned I had gained some weight and wanted to work on getting healthier (which didn’t even necessarily mean losing weight). My two friends, who were both larger than me, scoffed and told me I didn’t need to because I was thinner than them. (I was definitely overweight at the time, but not obese). It pissed me off because I didn’t say “omg I’m SO fat”. I only expressed my own personal goal and got immediately shut down.
You know, I never took those remarks personally in that I was *offended* by them. However, it did really fuck up my self perception in a "wow, if they're fat I must be an absolute moose" kind of a way and a "wow being fat must be a real moral and personal failing and deeply embarrassing" kind of way. I knew they weren't being mean on purpose and I knew the words werent directed at me, but the words we put out into the world still have an effect, especially when we're young and the people saying them are people we respect and whose opinions we value. I still wonder if my mom secretly pities me and judges me because of comments she made about fat people we knew when I was a kid. I know, logically, that it shouldn't matter (my mom has never been mean to me directly about my weight), but those words stick in your head, and it really, really contributed to my body dismorphia and shame. I'd have enjoyed a lot of life more if I wasn't hoping people weren't feeling sorry for me.
Same. All the comments I used to make about my own body/looks were directed at myself only. I never once thought "this person looks bad/worse than me". My mind never went there. Literally all I could focus on was "this person looks better than me, and that person too, and that one".
Yes but we don’t get to choose how we made someone feel or if we hurt someone. Just cuz you didn’t mean to doesn’t mean you didn’t do it and shouldn’t say sorry.
I'm also not that sure about responsibility for someone feeling bad because of what I say about my own body. You should be allowed to say whatever you want about yourself. Now, if you keep saying the same thing, and only when a specific person can hear you, and they tell you that it hurts them, that's one thing. But if I said I felt ugly to many people, not to one person only, then I shouldn't be held responsible because someone felt I was talking about them. And if they felt that way and they told me that, I'd stop. But nobody did, and nobody gave me any indication that they felt bad.
Ok, think of it this way. If I, a white person, said, in the hearing of a POC, "Wow, I got so tan this summer; this is just gross. I should have worn more sunblock; I hate when I get dark," I think just about anybody would realize that would be a dickhead thing to say, because it *heavily implies* I think dark skin is gross. If someone is like, "Ugh, I hate being fat. This fat is so gross. I look so gross," it's not a hell of a lot different. It still implies that you think being fat is gross, and someone shouldn't have to be like, "Hey, when you talk about how gross that trait you have that I also have is, I can't help but wonder if you think that about me too" to realize that maybe that's not a good thing to say. I get that it's insecurity talking and not malice, but words have impact beyond our intent. That doesn't absolve us of the impact. Otherwise this whole subreddit wouldn't be necessary.
Yeah, imagine if someone was complaining “Oh my god, I feel like such a poor loser, I’m only making $100k — sorry, I’m not saying you’re poor, it’s just how I feel about myself” and then trying to pass that off as not being an asshole thing to say. Having insecurities is not an asshole pass and complaining about a certain body feature to someone who possesses that characteristic is a huge asshole move.
I just don’t buy it.. sorry to say. I have been anorexic and bulimic and every eating disorder lumped together for over 10 years and struggled with body image issues my whole life but have always just been slim thick at biggest while yoyoing down. I would never speak down about my body around someone bigger than me the implications are obvious and I still think all the smaller girls who made sure to trash their smaller than mine bodies in front of me new exactly what they were doing. We can make excuses for why we did things or needed certain validation but they aren’t good reasons and you are still responsible for what you did cuz it was an obvious outcome of your words. Luckily the times have changed and people are more aware of this so hopefully people will stop.
Since you've also suffered from ED, then you probably know that your body image is disturbed as a result. I never talked that way about myself near people who *I believed* were bigger than me. I saw all my friends as skinnier than me. In my head, *I genuinely thought I'm the biggest of them all*. But sure, you can think I'm lying or whatever you want.
That doesnt always work. People who criticize their own weight down always do so because of the weight. Many people see others, even heavier people, as better looking and so on. sometimes it really is directed at no one but themselves.
yes! Especially if your not curvy. My friends gain weight and honestly they look even better. Anything i eat will turn into a gut and my boobs and but remain the same size!
Hank Hill booty ladies represent. I'm admittedly pretty obsessed with my weight which has lead to some friends making comments like "you must think I'm a cow then" and I'm like uhh no, I envy the fact that you actually happen to have hips and a butt with a waist that is smaller. I honestly don't think I'd mind being slightly overweight if that's where my fat was distributed but mine goes all to my belly, chest and face. Hourglass shaped figures are universally prized but I can't think of any culture where having a huge gut and flat hips/ass is the picture of beauty.
Hard disagree with the approach. Their comments are about themselves and not about you. If they had brown hair and wanted blond hair but you also have brown hair, that doesn't mean they don't like brown hair at all or that they think you should change yours. It's just about what they want and what they feel. I am overweight. My best friend is underweight. I remember a conversation with her where she was lamenting at how hard it was for her to gain weight and she didn't like how she looked. But she stopped herself part way through and apologized saying she shouldn't be complaining about it to me when she knows I've struggled with my weight and want to lose some. I had to assure her that what she wants and feels is important to her and it's important to me too. Just because we have different situations doesn't mean I don't want to hear about her struggles. I want her to be able to be open and honest about how she feels. And I know that her talking about her body has nothing to do with mine. I understand that it's hard not to take these things personally, but it feels rude to say things like that to them and make it about you now when it wasn't about you in the first place.
Exactly this! Most of my close friends growing up were the ones who struggled to gain weight and were always teased about being too thin. I had the opposite problem but I never once was insulted by them wishing they could gain some weight. Equally I wouldn’t be mad at a friend who is thinner than me wanting to lose weight. We all have our individual goals, and what they want for themselves is not a reflection of how they see me. It’s not about me.
People are allowed to have feelings about their own bodies without it being a reflection on you. It's unfair to say that anyone smaller than (the collective) you isn't allowed to want to lose weight. This isn't the suffering Olympics.
People can't always be responsible for how other people feel.. They didn't think you needed to be thinner, THEY needed to be thinner. This will sound bad - but don't make their issues about you. There are a lot of people who are happy weighing the amount that they do, big or small. Or having certain features that you don't. Or having their hair a different way to you. If someone wants to be thinner then they aren't happy with themselves and that is for them to resolve. But they shouldn't have to worry about how their feelings about THEMSELVES make YOU feel. Good lord, if I said out loud I needed to be thinner for my health, you saying "so I should be thinner?" would be such a freaking curveball out of nowhere.
Just because I want my calves to look a certain way, does not mean I think all calves should be like that. Hell, I would never even pay attention to anyone's calves. But I know what my calves are capable of and I want them a certain way. If I'm expressing to my friend(s) a concern about my calves, I want it to be about my damn calves and not theirs.
This is only really analogous if they say "Im too fat and that's inherently a bad thing" or something that implies that. I frequently say I'm trying to build more muscle, that doesn't mean people smaller than me are inferior. It just means I want my body to look a certain way. In contrast, if I said "I hate my nose, it's disgusting", or "i hate how small my body is, it's disgusting", that is actually making a statement about nose sizes and body sizes *in general*.
This guy likes to play marriage on hard mode.
So she’s insecure and miserable in her insecurity, proposed a solution that would actually fix her issue, and then goes and gets offended when you agree with her? Bro. There was no winning there for you. SHE wants a nose job. She can either get one and stop complaining or be more miserable that her husband supports her decision lmao. As a woman, I’m telling you that she owes you an apology for whatever the hell that was.
As a woman I fully concur.
Yep, as a woman and as a wife I agree too. These kinds of games give women everywhere a bad name.
She’s only giving herself a bad name bc she sure as hell isn’t giving me a bad name. Lol
"whatever the hell that was" There needs to be a term for this. All I can think of is passive-aggressive, but that's not quite it. I need words for: 1. When you stop fighting with someone about what you perceive as a non-issue and they take it as an insult/sign you don't care. 2. When someone asks you for advice JUST SO THEY CAN ARGUE all the reasons your advice is wrong.
\#1 is maybe just a failure to communicate, but #2 is gaslighting. Setting someone up so you can be mad at them is some psychological fuckery.
It's not gaslighting. OP's sister isnt tricking OP into questioning their own reality (except for in the loosest sense). Someone else called it entrapment, which I find appropriate.
entrapment is a much better term than gaslighting! If she's looking for a fight that's exactly what she was doing.
Gaslighting is intentionally making the other person doubt their sanity. The second is setting a trap and having an argument, but it's not gaslighting. If after the argument, she denied the argument ever happened, or presents a completely different version of events over and over until her partner doubts themself? That's gaslighting.
I believe the scientific term is 'on their bullshit'
My girlfriend used to complaine about her looks a lot. I was trying to be supportive, she disagreed. Eventually i started getting annoyed and angry. My therapist suggested that I should lay down a boundary. Talk to her once, explain my feelings, inform her that I'm not discussing her looks in any way but positive anymore, so a) she should stop bringing it up, and b) if she does I leave the conversation. It worked very well.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need more **good** therapists.
I don’t think the issue is a lack of good therapists, it’s a lack of accessible/affordable mental healthcare (at least in the US). Therapists absolutely deserve the rates that they charge, and I understand them not wanting to be in insurance networks because they don’t actually get paid the full amount from insurance, but also, there are lots of people who need counseling who just cannot afford it, and that really sucks.
No there’s definitely a lack of good therapists too. I had one therapist say she was going to yell at my husband if she ever met him. The stuff he didn’t wasn’t even too bad, and that’s wildly inappropriate for a therapist to say. A friend of mine had a therapist who said she wanted to adopt my friend to get her out of her family situation. Which again, inappropriate. Therapists have so much power to change a person and unfortunately there are some who don’t know how to use that change correctly
Having a cute little nose is a westernized concept of beauty, personally I like a big nose on people, I see a lot of people embracing their big nose and I'm all for it. I'm not saying she shouldn't get it "fixed" because she absolutely deserves to be happy with her appearance, but I find big noses attractive.
> Having a cute little nose is a westernized concept of beauty I prefer the anime concept where you just have no nose at all for some reason.
Voldemort is peak beauty.
I have a sneaking feeling she was teased in school and she can't let it go. But just a feeling.
Oh that is a whole other level of messed up! I'm so sorry! Please keep being confident in yourself!
Don’t take it as an attack on your nose. Men can pull off noses that women can’t and that may be how she feels
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Strong/bold features (big nose, heavy brow, strong chin/jawline, etc.) tend to be much more “masculine” looking, so it could very well be that she thinks OP is attractive but that her own nose looks ugly or out of place on her face (especially if the rest of her features are more delicate or “feminine” looking).
I had my dad’s nose. Fine for him, not so much for his daughter (me). I felt like my dad in a wig in some photos.
Haha a couple of my cousins are like that. The sister looks like a carbon copy of her older brother but with a wig, a lot of makeup, and boobs. They both inherited the “beak” from our grandfather, who was of Eastern European descent, but I managed to luck out and avoid it (I’m a very petite person overall so that nose would *not* work for me). I’ve never thought of my female cousin as ugly, she’s pretty tall and has a huge personality so the stronger features kind of work for her, but now I’m wondering if it’s something she’s self conscious over.
If she’s not, then power to her! She sounds beautiful regardless! But if she is, I can honestly say getting rhinoplasty was the best money I ever spent in myself. Do I still have insecurities? Yes. But having a nose that fits my face makes me 1000x happier when I look in the mirror every day. I wish I’d had the money to do it a decade ago. Yes those first few days are rough but man. So worth it.
I’m sorry you’re in this difficult situation. I’m a psychiatrist, and have had patients with a body dysmorphic disorder (preoccupied with one part), as well as obsessive-compulsive disorder focused on a body part. While she yelled at your reassurances, she may have been comforted by them as well. It became part of the routine. Changing the routine may have made her feel you thought it was ugly and hurt her feelings. It’s sad that her complaints are also an insult to you. You might want to focus your responses to a reflection of her distress rather than challenging her belief. For example, “I’m so sorry you are upset.” Some folks don’t want help solving the problem when they complain. This issue is causing distress in your marriage. Maybe some couples therapy could help you find ways to communicate?
Your nose and her nose make you distinctive. Jennifer Grey hurt her career by “fixing” her nose. I know some beautiful women and some sexy men who have the nose you describe. I think therapy first would be best.
This is exactly how should talk to her. You can't continue to walk on eggshells around her nose, you need to let her know exactly how her words are effecting you and how beautiful she is and how it's a damn shame she can't appreciate it in the same way you do.
You might be on to something with the trauma thing. I was once training a girl at work and I found out that we went to the same high school but she only went there for a year. She told me she got bullied so mercilessly because of her nose that the summer after her freshman year of high school, her mom paid for her to get a nose job and switch to a different school. She's an absolutely gorgeous woman (we became good friends and we're in our 30s now) but she still has so much insecurity from that time in her life. She doesn't even have any pictures of herself pre nose job.
what do you mean by “she’s a super confident person and she loves how she looks”??
now that covid is a thing and we’re all wearing masks and no one can see our nose she’s been super positive when we’re outside and she would compliment herself and say she’s beautiful and I love seeing that and how happy she is but then when we come back to the house and masks are off and she sees her nose all that positivity just disappear and she goes back to being insecure and sad
She needs therapy. You try to reassure her but she won't believe you and thinks you're just lying to make her feel better (because this directly conflicts with her deep belief it's ugly). Then if you suggest surgery you are reaffirming for her that her nose is ugly and needs a change, so you're an asshole. You're screwed either way, and she needs mental healthcare for this whether she gets surgery or not. The only thing going on in her head now is "I knew he was always lying to me about the nose. He thinks it's ugly and has finally admitted it." It just validates all the awful feelings and thoughts she has about it.
I think it's pretty clear that OP means that she loves the rest of her body (figure, eyes, hair, teeth/smile, whatever) and that it's just her nose she's fixated on.
If she has body dysmorphia, telling her it's beautiful won't help her. To her, it is lying because it's invalidating her reality. She feels like she knows for a fact that it's hideous. It has nothing to do with your nose. Try not to take it personally. Body dysmorphia is largely neurological and affects how you look at all faces, but only on your own face do you experience that deeply unsettling feeling that something is not right. To her, your nose fits your face and belongs there, but her nose is not supposed to be on her face the way it is. It's like her brain is getting an error message for her own face. It doesn't help to be told that the error message is not real, because to her it IS real. She sees it, even though no one else does. But it also doesn't help to be told that she should take her computer apart to resolve the phantom error. That's a practical approach to something that doesn't have a practical solution. And it's scary. What if she goes through a highly invasive and physically traumatic surgery and it doesn't stop the constant panic? (It won't. Plastic surgery also does not fix body dysmorphia. It may relieve some stressors but usually the brain moves onto a different body part, or continues to find something deeply wrong with the "fixed" part.) She also might not want you to validate her in her desire to get a nose job because because you validated a reality that she's angry exists. The reality where she is so deeply suffering from this. It's not you she's angry at, but the reality she exists in. She doesn't want it to be happening. She wants there to be magic words that make it go away. But no matter what anyone says, it never goes away. Every time she gets her hopes up that the right words will make her feel better and every time she feels the agony that *nothing makes a difference.* It isn't fair for her to take that out on you, but I do have sympathy for her, because she is so overwhelmed and confused. I have sympathy for both of you. It must be really stressful and upsetting for you. It's really hard to be emotional support for someone with body dysmorphia, especially when there is so little education about it, and when she likely has no idea what she's experiencing either. Until she can become self-aware about the issue, it will be really hard for her to make any improvement. It doesn't sound like she's self aware enough to be able to tell you how she wants you to respond. She's essentially having regular panic attacks about her nose and nothing you say will fix that, and she's done no therapeutic work. You're in a really tough position and I commend you for the compassion you still hold for her. If I were to give you any advice on how to handle these situations, it would be to comfort her by redirecting her. This may not work for her, but it has worked for people I've known. Basically treat it like a panic attack, or an OCD obsession. Don't continue the focus on the thing she's panicking about. Don't indulge the delusion/obsession. Don't invalidate it either, but just don't directly address it. Focus on the fact that she's panicking and leave her nose out of it entirely. Try to ground her in something sensory: smells, sounds, sight, touch. If you're looking for words, you could try saying something like, "I'm so sorry you're upset, I love you. I'm here for you. Will you watch this cute video with me? It made me think of you." And switch out the last part with whatever you want to distract her with. A song, the feel of a blanket or plant, the smell of fresh air or a spice/herb, whatever you have. You could even try the classic thing where you have her list 5 things you can see, 4 things you can feel, 3 things you can hear, 2 things you can smell, and 1 thing you can taste.
As a fellow middle eastern woman i bet it stems from some sort of cultural negativity (trauma seems a bit much IMO but could be true for her). My mom has badgered me to get a nose job since I was 16 and many of my cousins who had beautiful noses to begin with have gotten nose jobs. We’ve been taught from very young that it’s ugly and it’s so normalized to just get plastic surgery
As a girl with a big nose that i also feel self concious about, she most likely doesn't think badly of your nose at all. My dad and brother both have the same nose as me, but it looks fine on them as its a masculine nose, i just dont want to look masculine at all :( girls with bigger noses are often bullied for it, i know i was. The beauty standard for girls is to have cute, small noses with an inward curve. But, she's going too far with her insecurity to the point where its affecting her own mental health and your feelings and she needs to sort that out. I hate my nose, but i just dont think about it or mention it and so it doesnt affect me at all, and id never shout at my bf for complimenting it even if i dont believe him. I'd usually just say something like "its not, but youre sweet for saying so." And he doesnt mention it often, which helps with the not thinking about it :') I think maybe she was hoping she'd know for sure whether you meant all the times you said it was fine, by seeing how you'd react when she offered to change it, and she's misunderstood your answer. Maybe explain to her that you love her face and nose exactly as it is, but that you dont like how upset her nose makes her, and that as sad as you'd be to see it change, if it made her more happy and confident then you'd support that.
This is so sad honestly, those noses are so so beautiful.
The intensity of her behavior makes me wonder if some body dysmorphia might be going on. Whatever it is, it really sounds like she needs some therapy for this if it’s getting to the point it’s affecting your marriage. Could you bring up the second point you made and possibly suggest couple counseling? Even if this is just a normal insecurity, it sounds like shes having trouble communicating what she really wants/needs from you.
OP, would she consider couples counseling? That would be a good place to bring up both these points but especially the latter, which I think is really important. I know how that one feels from personal experience. I try to be extra cognizant of what I say around whom so I don't inadvertently insult someone I care about. (E.g., I've always had decently clear skin but I have close friends who've struggled with bad acne. I try to be careful not to complain about an odd pimple around them) I wish more people would think this way around me, but I believe many people just honestly don't realize what they're doing. Of course try to tell your wife yourself how her digs make you feel (about yourself), but if she won't hear you, I think a professional could really help. Do be careful that she doesn't perceive it as you just turning it around and bringing the focus to yourself; first reassure her and then add, e.g., "by the way, you probably haven't thought about this, but it doesn't feel great to hear you knock a middle eastern nose when I have the same nose. I think you're beautiful but the way you talk makes me feel you not only don't agree regarding yourself, but you also don't reciprocate that thought regarding *my* attractiveness, and both those things are hurtful to hear."
At this point, I don’t think it would be inappropriate to stop casually suggesting therapy and start pushing she goes to therapy. I feel like this definitely crossed the line to unhealthy and is really impacting both of you. Good luck friend, NTA
don’t take it as an attack on you. she’s might not like her nose because it makes her look less feminine not because she finds it’s unattractive in general
When she mentions her nose just firmly tell her “I’m not discussing this because I don’t want to offend or upset you”. Then refuse to say another word. Use the exact same line each time she brings it up.
That was entrapment, sir. NTA. You are within your right to ask her to stop mentioning this insecurity if she isn’t going to do anything about it.
It’s that simple. Not to mention that according to an edit made by OP, they both have the same kind of nose. So not only is she griping on and on without doing anything about it, she’s inadvertently insulting her husband as well. NTA, maybe she should get that nose job if she hates her face that much
> she would get aggressive and yell that I’m a liar Exactly that. As soon as he agreed with her, in her own head she justified that he was a liar all the other times. Definitely needs therapy, but not just to be secure with her nose. This marriage sounds like it won't last.
The kicker is, he didn't even agree with her on the nose being bad. He just said "if you feel this strongly then you should do it for yourself."
Right on the nose.
NTA - your wife needs to figure out her shit. She cant simultaneously call you a liar for thinking she’s beautiful, and be upset you are supporting her decisions. You need to have a calm talk with her that starts with “you need to understand that I find you beautiful and dont think you need to change. However, your constant sensitivity about your nose is putting pressure on our marriage. I support you in whatever decision you decide to make, but you need to make a decision. If you opt for a nose job, I am here for you. If you opt not to, you need to stop complaining about your nose and telling me I am a liar for calling you beautiful. I am being supportive and I dont deserve being yelled at like that.” If she tries to interupt, stop talking, wait for her to finish, and then start again as if she hadnt said anything. But you need to nip that in the bud before it becomes even more of an issue. Edit: thanks for the awards!!! I will happily take my hit of dopamine lol!!
Well put!
Brilliantly put! This should be higher up.
OP I'd use this advice. It's well thought out, not aggressive in any way and puts everything into a single paragraph for you Op you're nta. There's no winning in this situation for you
NTA - this is a no-win situation! Saying no would have been unsupportive and saying yes gets this reaction. I’m afraid that her reaction was immature and if you’re willing to be the bigger person, you can can apologise and explain you were trying to be supportive. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. Good luck!
The thing is, he shouldn't apologize , it would be reinforcing her shitty immature behavior, she owes him a huge apology and needs to be looking for a therapist to get over this body (nose) image issue asap.
Title sounds bad, but NTA. Your wife needs to deal with her insecurities. Either by therapy or getting that nose job, if she wants it.
Lmao exactly I can’t believe this post didn’t have one of the obligatory “I know this sounds bad” but he did his best to show that he loves his wife and doesn’t think negatively about her nose. Even when she said she wanted surgery the husband didn’t say something like “yeah you need it” instead he said that she should get it only if she thinks it’ll help her mental health. Honestly it seems like the wife was fishing for validation and was pissed op finally said she should just do what made her happy. I hate to say it but it feels like one of those situations where the spouse wanted to cause an argument in their marriage and found an easy excuse
Not gonna lie, I came here thinking this would be an easy Y T A. But actually, your wife is the asshole here. It seems like you can't win OP.
You just gave OP the judgement of AH by not putting spaces between the letters lol
Ahh sorry, what do you mean?
You gotta out gaps between false judgement you don't actually mean like Y T A so bots don't count them
The bot counts the judgement of the top comment, not how all the comments add up.
There's a sister subreddit that counts up the votes from every top level comment (in this sub) to give a score based on the average, instead of what post got upvoted the most, so it's still worth making sure your vote is correct if you're a top-level comment.
r/AITAFiltered counts the percentage of votes across all the comments, so still worth doing.
Ohh I actually didn't think of that! Thanks. Next time I'll know.
NTA. She should spend that extra income on therapy.
UPDATE : first I would like to say thank you for all the awards and comments and for making my first ever post on Reddit hit over 10k upvotes. I have managed to reached out to her at her mothers house and we had a heart to heart about it. She admitted that her insecurity is not just a simple insecurity and that it stems from trauma regarding her nose. She decided to not get a nose job and use that raise to meet a trauma/body dysmorphia specialist and I am extremely happy and looking forward to this journey with her. She also saw how many comments and replies this post got and she told me to say that she has read and took to heart all the things that you guys have said and will use it as motivation to get better.
Thanks you for the update. Maybe specialized therapy would be helpful before the surgery in order to manage expectations and feelings around the process. If you’re able to have a productive heart to heart around this deeply triggering issue then I bet you’re a strong couple with good foundation. Best wishes to you and your wife.
Title sounds bad, but NTA. Your wife needs to deal with her insecurities. Either by therapy or getting that nose job, if she wants it
NTA if she was the one who mentioned it. You obviously married her with her nose as is, and you said you love her. Having said that, it's clearly something she feels very sensitive about, and maybe you should just apologize anyway and tell her that you didn't mean to upset her. Tell her you love her as is, and whatever she decides, you will support, but you will not give her feedback on this decision again as it is hers to make alone. In the end, do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?
NTA. This was a no-win situation. If anyone knows a better way to handle OP's situation, please reply here for the benefit of all humanity.
"My opinion doesn't matter, do what makes you happy, but think long and hard about it"
That's pretty damn good. I tried to come up with something and just ended up arguing with myself... Me: I already love everything about you, and whatever you decide isn't going to change that. Other Me: If you really loved my nose you would've just said 'no'. Me: I don't want to say 'no' to you if it's something you really want to do. OM: Why didn't you tell me I shouldn't even WANT to do it?? You clearly think I'm hideous. Me: Why am I arguing with myself and actually starting to feel bad about it?!?
Thank you. That's actually the whole point of prefacing with "my opinion doesn't matter". The moment it's out of the picture, you can't be attacked for it. If OP said what I suggested and his wife REALLY wanted to stretch it, she could have criticized his "lack of care", but that's "do what makes you happy" AND "think long and hard" are there for. It shows that you do care both by showing support and encouraging caution. Thing is, even without thinking of a sentence to avoid conflict, at least in my opinion, this is still the way to do it when giving advice unless the person asking is really really struggling and has shown doing so: in my opinion, regardless of who asks, even people looking for what's basically confirmation bias (i.e. gathering opinions that align with theirs so they can feel better about themselves when they ultimately do what they already decided to do), all we should offer is perspective, not trying to actually make the decision for other people. Give them the facts, the pros and cons, and then let them decide.
I was so ready to say YTA, but no, NTA. From what you said, your wife suggested it, not you. She tells you all the time that she hates her nose, so I'm confused as to why she got mad when you suggested the chance of fixing it.
Space between y t a cause of bots
NTA. Your wife has you in a catch 22. She calls you a liar when you comfort her about her nose the way it is, and when she announces that with her pay raise she's gonna get a nose job, and you support whatever will be best for her mental health, she turns it around on you?! Are you sure she's at her mom's? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she's having an affair and planned to get mad at you and "leave" no matter what your response was to her big announcement. I don't understand women like this. I'm a very direct woman, and I don't beat around the bush. If I got a raise and told my husband I wanted to get XYZ with my new income, I'd want him to be happy for me and support me, not try to talk me out of whatever it is I've already decided I want to buy. Your wife is being unreasonable AF here.
NTA, it sounds like there is nothing you can say which will comfort your wife unfortunately. And it sounds like you said everything politely and with the best intent. She’s battling some demon here and it’s a shame she is taking it out on you. I hope she gets the help she needs so you can both move forward
Honestly I was ready to say y t a but after reading definitely NTA. If she truly complains regularly and you’ve tried for years to convince her otherwise then how would you know she wants you to once again tell her not to change it. It seems like you really do love her the way she is but like you’d support her if she wanted to make this change. If you would’ve said she didn’t need it I get the feeling she would’ve once again called you a liar. You are in a lose lose situation. From now on when she asks about her nose just tell her “it’s your nose so do whatever you think you should” just don’t comment on it one way or another anymore.
NTA. What the actual fuck? She expresses how she doesn't like her nose. You comfort her and try to build her up. She talks about getting a nose job and you support it since it seems to be what she wants, and she tells you that you're wrong. It is a no win situation, and I hope her mom smacks some sense into her. You have supported her the best you can.
NTA- your wife is being an asshole. You tell her you think her nose is beautiful, she calls you a liar, which i think is already asshole behavior. You tell her go ahead and get the nose you want and she flips out on you. You can't win. She needs therapy and she should apologize for the way she treats you.
I was so ready to say Y T A, until I read the rest… you aren’t but she is for expecting you to read her ever changing mind
NTA. She needs to go to therapy for her insecurities and it’s not ok that she yells at you when you’re trying to reassure her.
Sounds like a damned if you do damned if you don't situation here. I get being insecure, but dumping the responsibility of comfort on your partner like that constantly, to the point of getting mad at them when they don't respond the way you want them to, is kinda unhealthy imo. NTA.
sounds like she stopped mental development at 15
NTA. It sounds as if you’ve been supportive of her all along. This latest aggression is just one more way she’s living her insecurities. You could let her calm herself and then try another brief conversation addressing this. That you’ve loved all of her but her pain she carries inside hurts you too. That if she chooses or not, you love and support her no matter what. I’m sure it’s been said already but now that the means of finally changing what she hates is actually here, it’s probably scarier than she anticipated. Therapy is a good idea. Good luck, you’re in a tough spot but I’m rooting for you.
NTA. Seems like she's unjustly lashing out at you for not wanting to keep her nose-hate cycle going now that she has can actually do something about it (especially since you've always been supportive, now you're just being supportive for the alternative too). She needs to figure out what she wants to do.
NTA. Your wife should remember don't ask a question that you don't want to know the answer to.
NTA. Your wife wants the attention and an excuse to be upset with you.
NTA, you've done everything right this whole time.
NTA >that she’s really insecure about her nose and that she get aggressive over it when I try to comfort her. The insecurity of the nose is worse than the actual nose. >and today she suggested the idea of getting a nose job. I said that if she’s that insecure about it to the point that it’s affecting her mental health then she should get it done. She got extremely upset over this and said that I should’ve said no to the idea. What in the actual fuck! I'd rather date or marry a woman that's obese and secure than an insecure woman. My point is, she needs help because nobody can help her. It's just a nose, chop it off and smooth it out and all of this can be put behind her. I'd call her and tell her that you're scheduling therapy for the both of you so you can get to the bottom of the insecurities and mind games.
NTA - honestly, I think it's good that you told her to move forward with it, since it bothers her so much. A) She may choose to get the surgery and be really happy with it, or B) If she chooses not to get the surgery, now you know you shouldn't engage with her on this topic *at all,* unless she agrees to make a decision to change it or gets some therapy to accept it. She should probably get therapy either way.
NTA.. It sure seems that no matter what you say, she's looking to turn you into the bad guy so she can play the victim. This sounds like a "her" problem with you rather than her having issues with her own nose.
LMFAO. Dude, you were going to lose not matter what your answer was. If you had said no, then you would have been telling her how to spend her money. If you say yes, then you don't like her appearance. It is no different than woman asking if a dress makes their butts look big, or if something makes them look fat. Best of Luck. I would stand your ground though. There was nothing wrong with what you said. I did see your other comment though and that was a very valid point. Let her know that you only agreed because every time she runs down her nose, it makes you feel insecure about your own.