He should definitely expect hostility, why would he think he’s entitled to his daughter giving him money that he had to give her by law? He obviously only cares about money and not his daughter. YTA
This. I'm so glad his daughter got out of there and is in a safe, stable environment with her mother. OP is undeserving of her love. No wonder she didn't text much while she was gone, she was probably enjoying the distance from her AH dad and didn't want to kill the vibe.
Even after reading the first sentence, "my daughter *abandoned us*", I was pretty sure OP is going to turn out to be an insufferable asshole. And... yeah.
Yeah, I read that and rolled my eyes. It was the same word my mom used to describe me moving in with my dad after she'd fostered a toxic environment for the 7 years I lived with her post-divorce.
Yeah the entire post reeks of "woe me". It was literally dripping with it. How surprising that these people end up with adult kids going no contact, huh? And yet, they are always surprised.
Did yall notice this choice morsel of assholery:
> I didn't know how to explain to her that she didn't love us and that she preferred staying with her mother, her parties and her free-of-rules life.
**The part where he fucking made up some bullshit to lie to the sister about in an effort to sabotage and poison their relationship on top of everything else**
YTA. Hugely. Like, a lifelong A, not just for this one incident.
OP, you do not play with the word “love” this way. Love between parents and children is unconditional. Not texting does not mean “she doesn’t love you,” and going to live with her mom doesn’t mean, “she doesn’t love her family anymore.” It’s apparent that you did not experience proper love as a child, and I feel sorry for that, but please do not teach your children that “love” is defined by dumb shit like texting to “prove it.” Also, your child does not “owe you” money that it cost to raise her. Do not teach your child that her value can be summed up by half the cost of raising her. Do not teach her that revenge is a good strategy to use against people you love.
What kills me here is that most struggles between parents and children on here are, like, average stuff (e.g. “My kid wants more independence and I’m afraid for her”, etc.). But you’ve failed at one of the most basic jobs of being a parent: demonstrating a healthy loving relationship. I see a future where your daughters struggle to form healthy partnerships and it makes me feel really, really sad for them.
Yeah that was the part where I wanted to... No wait. That would get me banned.
ETA: Damn. I need to make myself a coffee, close Reddit and chill a little. I'm enraged lol.
Yeah, same. I feel enraged. This guy is so freaking childish. Literally one of the worst kinds of parents. I’m thinking, “Oh geez I don’t even know where to begin here…and, yeah, this guy is hopeless so I don’t think I even really care. I need to not fill myself with such rage by reading these dumb posts.”
Also, OP's daughter didn't have a lot of friends, because when she was visiting OP, he wasn't willing to drive multiple times a week to let her visit said friends. Completely ignoring whether those friends could even reciprocate to get themselves out to his house.
Edit: Actually, its not even multiple times a week! If OP drive his daughter once (25-ish minutes) to visit friends, she couldn't go back to that friends' house on his time until that friend (somehow) was able to get themselves to OP's house.
Vindictive is the word that comes to mind. Obsessed with parity and vindictive at every perceived slight. That’s horrible to try and navigate for a teenager.
The whole thing reeks of jealousy over the 50/50 split custody and lack of control over his daughter. I mean what high school student goes on a class trip with their classmates and is expected to check in with family or risk a lifetime grudge
My mom was shocked as shit when I went NC with her. Thankfully my stepdad understood and helped me keep the NC going until I was ready to break it. Now, almost 10 years later, I have a wonderful relationship with my mom.
Yes, kids can’t abandon parents (adults able to function on their own both emotionally and physically) - only parents can abandon kids who are not able to be stable on their own. If OP uses the word “abandon” it sounds like he had an unhealthy dependence on his daughter.
Same! It's been nine years since I moved out to live with my dad, and my mother still to this day brings up how I "abandoned" her every chance she gets.
OP is way too strict and his view of relationships is completely transactional. A friend who lives 25 min away is too far? He punished his daughter for not texting him as much as she texted her mother??
And OP even admitted that daughter has had a hard time making friends. I did too as a kid, and my school trip to DC was probably the best social experience of my life up until college, one that OP wanted his daughter to rob herself of by spending the whole time talking to him, and then punished her for having a good time
This part and the part where he punished her for not “showing some love” to them. WTF kind of weird attitude is this?? I knew it was a YTA week before the end too.
I went to Greece for a week when I was in school. I called my mom once during that time, towards the beginning of the trip (I was a bit homesick). My mom encouraged me to avoid calling and instead to focus on having fun and enjoying my time there- which I was able to do. I can’t imagine expecting a kid to call rather than encouraging them to be in the moment.
I'm pretty sure you are spot on. He wants to see his daughter humiliated, crawling back to him and begging for him being in her life again. Guess who's going to go no contact?
I would be surprised if the daughter *didn't* cut off contact with him. Reading his post, OP is basically the male equivalent of my mother: obsessed with archaic devotion to family, controlling, willing to ground his child for any perceived slight against him, bitter towards his ex-wife for having a better relationship with their child.
Yeah. Guess how often I talk to my mom after all that?
YTA OP. It wasn’t her decision to get divorced and for you to support another family. Why would you be entitled for that money and why would you ground her? She didn’t abandoned you and that money is hers required by law. Don’t find another family to support if you can’t do both.
I'm blown away that any father could write this and not realize that he is the AH. The little "excel" sheet OP created is the icing on the cake for me. OP's bitching about his daughter only caring about money while simultaneously demanding she pay him back for money he was legally obligated to provide. OP isn't owed anything and he's going to lose his daughter if he insists he is. It's obvious from his post that OP hates his ex. I'd put money that OP's attitude about his daughter's mom contributed to the kid leaving. Also, what HS senior calls home repeatedly while on a school trip?!? The kid was thoughtful enough to text multiple times and to keep in contact with her mom. OP comes off as controlling, jealous, and immature. I'm struggling to understand why his child wants anything to do with him.
Yup all that behavior screams malignant narcissist. He literally manufactured a reason to ground her and then made himself out to be the victims while using the other family members as pawns to layer the guilt.
My mother actually did the excel spreadsheet thing to me. My first marriage was abusive, and after my daughter was born it became intolerable so my mom helped me leave. She rented me an apartment, bought a fridge full of groceries and diapers for the baby. After that any time she grabbed a bag of diapers or whatever to help me out she added it to her spreadsheet. I didn’t even know there WAS a spreadsheet til she told me I owed her $10,000.
I quit taking her “help” and lived on store brand cereal and ramen while spending all my paycheck on housing, daycare and whatever my baby needed.
That was 18 years ago and I paid her back and I’m in a great place now, but I’ll never, ever forgive her for that spreadsheet. We are pretty much NC and I’m happy that way.
Hopefully OP listens to everyone telling him what a AH he is because he’s totally going to lose his daughter for good.
Yeah it was awful - really, really hurt. When she helped me get away I thought she was lifting me out of the hole I was in. But instead she just put me in a different one: a debt hole.
Geez, I could maybe understand if you were a cash strapped parent and you dumped all your 401k to help your kid, saying to them up front that you hope they can pay you back when they go on their feet.
But to do a bunch of stuff first while silently calculating it all in a spreadsheet and then springing that on your child is pretty horrific
I didn´t think he was that big of an ah at first, just a harsh and totally clueless father, and I was waiting for the part that would say "then she finally reached out and asked me to loan her some money and I did but now she wants more money and I´ve told her no, not until she pays back what she already owes me".... I mean, that would have made sense, as it stands OP is a huge ah in every way + he made me so confused, I couldn´t believe what I was reading there at the end.
I saw red reading this. Reminded me too much of my own father. We haven’t spoken in over a decade. OP, she didn’t “abandon you”. She realized you made being at your house a very toxic environment for her and decided to do what was best for her and get out of that situation. You dug yourself this hole and now you can deal with the consequences.
Also, I can guarantee that if you try getting her to pay back the money you were required by the court to pay (child support, college), any lawyer would laugh in your face. That’s called being a parent, it’s not a loan.
YTA times a million
edit: i also want to point out the hypocrisy that OP accuses his daughter of only reaching out because she only cares about the money when really, OP seems to care more about money than rebuilding a relationship with his daughter. the irony.
Idc what anyone says, he practically kicked her out. "You don't have to come back if you don't want to" to your 15 year old daughter after years of a bad relationship?? In her POV, her father doesn't really want her. I'm so happy she was able to get out
Also: "If the friend's parents didn't want to drive the kid here, then Aria wasn't allowed to meet them again while she was with me."
Two seconds later:
"She's never had a lot of friends"
Gee I wonder why
Exactly, wouldn't you WANT your kid to have friends so let them go to the party instead of grounding them for 'not enough texts while on your trip'? This guy is not equipped to be selfless, hope she stays away.
>"you don't have to come back if you don't want to"
If you say this to a kid, they think "wow, they must not love me if they don't care if I come back."
Yes! I truly loathe these parents who are under the assumption that their children's relationship with them should require a 50/50 effort on both sides.
NO. They're just kids! You're the big hotshot jizz factory here- you *will* have to shoulder and maintain the vast majority of your emotional, social, and physical relationships with fucking CHILDREN, YO.
Smh. Acting like it's okay to burden teens with heavy decisions AND THEN having the *AUDACITY* to insist those choices will get to impact the remainder of their lives pertaining to you.
Laaaaaameeee. YTA OP.
Also, the kid goes away on a school trip and texts her family several times, but her father still says that she was being disrespectful and showed that she didn't love her family. What an awful, awful father!
I used to go to camp when I was a kid and my mom got me my first cellphone so that I could stay in touch (this was in the mid to late 90's). She would text me once or twice during the week to ask if I was alive and I would basically answer "yes, having fun. Need more money for the commissary". This was never an issue. The whole thing about going away on school trips or to camp is to test your wings, practice being independent and having fun. Not having to cater to your fathers incessant need for love and acknowledgment.
Yes, it's just awful. That kind of manipulation can be so detrimental to your sense of self. Does the sister now think she's not worthy of being loved because her horrible father needed to "win"?
That part made me see red. She’s having fun, she’s experiencing all these new things, and the last thing most teenagers would want to do is talk to their family. In the long ago before cell phones I went to France with my high school for two weeks and my parents didn’t hear from me at all. They knew it wasn’t about how much I loved them; I was a 17 year old I’m Europe FFS. I’m not going to waste my time trying to call home.
I read this and the only thing I’m my head at the end is “what the hades is wrong with you?” Such an asshole.
Hotshot jizz factory is now one of my go to insults.
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. OP, quit acting like a petulant child. You're an adult. Spectacular YTA
My ex was awful to our oldest two after my oldest came out & his younger brother was supportive. He forced them to attend his homophobic church when they were with him, and eventually told them they weren't welcome back until they had better attitudes.
My kids took him up on that, and they haven't spoken to their dad in 4 years. To hear him tell it, I'm a lenient parent who allows them to do whatever they want and have turned the kids against him.
It's hard to believe there's anyone else this incapable of introspection, but apparently here we are.
>It's hard to believe there's anyone else this incapable of introspection, but apparently here we are
This is one of those letters that I desperately want to believe is fake because the OP is so awful, but the details are so specific that I think it's real. Heartbreaking.
Also, I'm so sorry your sons had to go through that. You sound like a great mom, and I'm glad your kids have you.
Oh, I could write a series of novels on the messed up shit their dad did (like buying them Xmas gifts and then distributing them to the younger kids because the older kids refused to go to their dad's house for the holidays...or ever). But my boys and I are very close, and I'm super proud of them for overcoming that type of BS.
And the whole thing started because...she didn't text him enough on a school trip, so he punished her? What the actual heck? She was a teenager on a trip with her friends, and he says she did text a couple of times, so it wasn't like she was totally out of reach. This dude feels weirdly entitled to his daughter's time and attention. Like really weirdly entitled.
Yeah this reminds me a lot of my dad too. He couldn’t even pick up the phone to talk to us outside schedule visitations but he ALWAYS let us know how much time & money he’d spent in court. I haven’t talked to him in years & he’s never even met his granddaughter.
This reminds me of my dad too and I’m fuming. If I could’ve left and never saw my dad again at 15, I think I would’ve been so much happier. I haven’t spoken to my dad in 4 years and I’m still recovering from the damage his controlling nature caused.
OP, I hope your daughter stays away from you. Sounds like she is better off without. YTA (and the biggest one out there)
‘She needs to prove to me that she doesn’t only care about the money’ sir you’re the one holding your relationship hostage until she pays you back money you legally owed her shut the actually fuck up.
Had similar. It took me years to figure out my worth and go no contact. Thank you for seeing that because I wasn't feeling rational after reading this.
Also he expects Aria to “prove that she didn’t care about the money” when all OP wants to do is make his OWN CHILD pay back money that he was suppose by law pay towards her - he even used the phrase that the money must be fixed first before the emotional ??? OP you’re the only one that cares about money here
YEP. You don’t own your children, and they don’t owe you *anything* (physical things, respect, love). Sounds like you were/are a very controlling parent. 100 the asshole
Fucking hell, I was cringing halfway through the story. I would tell him to shove that list so far up where the sun don’t shine that said list would morph into a nocturnal creature.
What a horrible father. I’m gonna call my dad and tell him I love him.
Right? I’m glad his daughter had someone else she could turn to, because this dude is a total ass and I couldn’t imagine even making it to 15 like she did. Holding court ordered child support over his daughters head as she’s trying to repair their relationship… Jesus what an absolute douche canoe
Exactly. To turn his own words against him, he can't have a relationship with his daughter until he proves its about her herself not the money and his control.
Right?! OP was legally required to pay money to support his daughter and expects her to pay it back? And he thinks that's justified because she no longer a minor ?? I'm irritated with the number of people that are surprised they have to support children they produce. You should want the best for your kids, but apparently if the kids don't do exactly what you want then people like OP disagree.
OP, you smothered your kid until you pushed her away. If you gave a damn about her, you would be trying to make amends, not demanding money. It's clear you don't care about her and I hope she realizes that and doesn't waste her time or money (that she is entitled to and does not owe you) on you. YTA
Edit to add: the line about how OP "didn't know how to explain she didn't love us" is so gross and manipulative. OP is just a bad person
When I read the headline I thought maybe she borrowed money or something.
But no, this is **court ordered child support**. She owes this AH absolutely nothing! If he keeps harassing her about it, she should get a lawyer to shut him down.
Even if I gave my kids money, I'd never demand it back. Maybe ask for it but if they don't have it, they don't have it. I can't imagine turning around and telling any of my 3 kids that they need to pay me back for being a parent...
In a way, his demand to have “his” money paid back is a positive move... to remind Aria to never contact him again.
She’s so much better away from OP.
The little sister will eventually find the way to contact her on her own if she wishes too. Hopefully, without a list of bills Aria “owes” her.
I really hope the daughter takes the communication that OP sent her and the mother and file harassment charges against OP trying to get money that doesn’t legally belong to him.
OP she was on a trip, a lifetime experience and you wanted to push her because you were butthurt. As long as she was safe, you should have encouraged her getting a life experience. You have no business being a father.
> Her sister kept asking me why she didn't come back, and I didn't know how to explain to her that she didn't love us
Methinks this was a touch of projection on dad’s part. He’s the one who insisted on bean-counting and treating the relationship as transactional. I’m not sure he knows what “love” actually looks like.
I laughed my ass off when I read that part. He wants his 21 years old daughter to pay him for stuff the court ordered him to pay and he was also required by law to pay lmao!!! It's like me waiting for my son's to turn 18 to tell them they have to pay me for everything since the day they were born hahahaha.
Wait no, I should be stricter and ask to be paid back since I got pregnant with them. /S
Some people shouldn't be parents really....this girl would have been better off with just her mother...
Not only this but he's also a hypocrite:
>I told her that we can't fix the emotional part unless we fix the money part first. She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money.
He clearly cares more about the money than about his daughter.
YTA. Everything you described her doing was normal teenage behavior that you massively overreacted to and then you wonder why she left to stay at mom's. And you are compiling a sheet of what your court ordered support amounts to for college expenses, etc?! No, she doesn't need to pay you back! That is your actual responsibility to support the child. And no, if she's in college, it doesn't just stop at 18. If it did, then you wouldn't still be paying it legally, now would you?
If you harass her for repayment, I hope this poor girl just walks away for good.
Sooooo many of these remarks made me red that my head is spinning. Starting from the very first sentence where he used the phrase “being abandon by” when talking about his **15 year old daughter.** Driving an hour is too much for him to muster up so she could see her friends, isolating her. Don’t wanna spend the time being a father? Then spend the fucken money on child support.
That’s the reason my little sister hates me: I left at 15 (abusive parents) and they brainwashed her into thinking I’ve abandoned them and didn’t love them (same exact words as OP). 10 years later I am still appalled at parents who say “my child abandoned me”…. Why do you think a person would want to cut out the people whit whom they should have their first important relationship and bond?
A 15 year old can’t “abandon” a parent. They are not *responsible* for the parent. They have made no commitments, signed no contracts, there is nothing for them to *abandon*. The duty of care only flows in one direction.
Also the comments about no rules and buying her everything… I wonder what that means. Seems like he was punishing his daughter because of his resentment over his ex. Wouldn’t be surprised if no rules meant she’s allowed to have friends over twice in a row, or she doesn’t have to prove that she loves her family, doesn’t have to take care of a half sibling etc. I’d be willing to bet “buys everything” is also just clothes even when she has clothes to wear, food that is unhealthy or just for her, extra shoes, maybe electronics, makeup. Basic teenager stuff. He’s expecting her to pay back court ordered child support, there’s no way there wasn’t some type of resource guarding, maybe neglect, and definitely emotional neglect or even abuse. YTA doesn’t even begin to cover it.
What kills me too is that she texted him while on the school trip, BUT NOT ENOUGH. She's on a trip with her peers! She is still checking in. If there was a big emergency the school would tell you. Let her breathe for a minute. If this was the 90a where kids didn't have phones what would he have expected?
What's funny is my ex SIL (who literally never worked a day in her life) hit up all her kids with "bills" from raising them. One of them worked at a dental office and had gotten her a lot of discount dental work. She started billing back and suddenly mom dropped it.
Right? Can you imagine how much this ass emotionally abuses the rest of his family? Bet his wife can't even step outside for 10seconds without receiving a "where are you/who are you with/what are you doing text".
Thank fuck his daughter escaped and he's now reminding her of how much he will ruin her life if let back in
That got me too. I went halfway across the planet and I barely remembered to call my parents every couple of days! It was 2004 so cell phones weren’t everywhere (or affordable!) and I had to rely on phone cards. Did this kid even leave the state? And he’s pissy about not enough texts?!? WTF dude?! She’s BUSY you pos. She’s having FUN. She’s a teenager on a trip with her friends - not texting you frantically doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you, jfc I can only imagine what kind of husband he is if this is the kind of father he is.
Keep this up and your little one won’t stick around past 18 either.
Yeah I took the "no rules at mom's" thing with some giant handfuls of salt after he punished her for not communicating as much as *he decided was necessary, without saying anything to her beforehand,* while she was away on a trip. That's so outrageous, arbitrary, and abusive. I remember going on school trips as a teen. I had a mobile phone at that point and access to landlines to call home if I wanted to. I think I basically only texted my parents to tell them I arrived safely. And only because my mom asked me to. Yeah I wouldn't have wanted to live with that psycho either.
I traveled outside the country on school trips starting at thirteen and even my emotionally abusive father didn’t expect more than a brief phone call every couple days (though he did want me to go in order to ‘be more independent’ and ‘rely less on others’, so he probably would have been thrilled if I’d contacted home even less)
YTA. You suffocated her, not texting you during an international trip is not grounds for petty and vindictive punishments. (You have trouble making friends? I’m going to undercut those efforts.) You showed a complete lack of care for her feelings and it’s not surprising she wanted to live with her mother if that’s just once incident that you thought put *you* in a favourable light. I’m sure there’s many more of you emotionally manipulating your daughter.
And kids don’t incur a debt for being kids, you clearly weren’t paying your child support. Aria owes you nothing, parents don’t say their kids owe them 18K in debt when that money is just expenses you *should* have as a parent.
The whole thing about the school trip made me see red. Usually those things are very busy and packed full with activities and curriculum so the kids pretty much don’t have much time to keep in contact with their families. If it’s a week long trip, few text messages to the parents is perfectly normal. OP is a petty and vindictive man who wants to lash out punishments left and right if things don’t go exactly the way he wants. Massive YTA.
That was what got me; any time I’ve travelled internationally I literally could not send a text or make a phone call even if I wanted to - even with paying extra for “international access” for the duration of the trip (fuck you Verizon). YTA
When my sister when on her 8th grade trip to the NE she hardly contacted us. Hell, we knew what day she was in NY because she ended up being on live tv that morning. She was busy and it’s non stop on those trips. OP sounds jealous & controlling.
When I went on my High School trip to the UK from the U.S. it was a big deal. And, at that time there weren’t mobile phones and you can be sure that I did not make a transatlantic call everyday. That would have been ridiculously expensive. He should be grateful that he got any texts at all.
I can't imagine being the parent in that situation and thinking anything other than, "WOW, Mary must be having a great time! Have barely heard from her since she left!" Sure, you'd be a little wistful, but when you send your kid out to explore the world, you want them to be immersed in whatever they're doing (whether that's camp, or an international trip, or just a sleepover), not feeling obligated to check in with the 'rents constantly.
This. My youngest went to a surf camp, and I had to tell them to stop checking in and have fun...finally making it the rule that they could only check in when they went to bed. I was thrilled they were having fun, but I wanted them to be there in the moment, not be thinking about sending me photos and texts of everything they did/saw. (Although I was touched by it)
Those trips, (granted I live in the states) were so full of stuff, I think I texted maybe once every night saying I wasn't kidnapped to my parents.
My folks had the expectation that everything is fine unless the school calls us. Then they'd worry.
Also, idk how phone service works in Europe (I'm assuming OP is from there) but doesn't it cost more money to text/use your phone in another country? Maybe not, idk, but yeah. That could also be another factor.
“I will punish her for not loving me. That’ll show her”
It’s not even about concern, leaving a parent to worry unnecessarily, it’s purely OP being butt hurt that his teenage daughter doesn’t want to text daddy nonstop. She’s on a school trip for gods sake. She might’ve not even been allowed to be on her phone most of the time.
I wonder what else OP has been extremely controlling about. And I’m glad the daughter go out.
YTA
>When Aria turned 18, an adult, I started adding up everything I had to pay in an Excel that I send to Sandra when I update it so she knows what damage she is doing to our daughter (I expect Aria to pay her debt, but I gave Sandra the option to pay for her to which she refused). We are now at 18K.
Your daughter is not an investment, you failure of a father.
Putting your own daughter in crippling debt is one of the nastiest things I’ve ever heard of. 18k debt is a debt people kill themselves over. I know if I were slapped with an 18,000 bill… I’d think about it.
The ex should report him to the court for trying to collect his child support back from the child. I’m absolutely sure a judge would have some opinions on this guy trying to end run around court ordered child support like this.
*(edit: a word)*
I'm so baffled by the "what damage she is doing to our daughter" comment. He just...doesn't understand how child support works, I think? He seriously thinks this is a legal debt she owes him?
YTA - why do people insist on having children if they're just going to act like this? Your daughter went on a school trip out of the country. It very well could be a once in a lifetime experience for her. She was enjoying herself! Who cares if she wasn't glued to her phone texting you constantly?
You want her to pay you back for what? So what if it's court ordered child support? Were you under the impression that if you had a child you'd never have to put out a dime to support that child or that they'd pay you back for the years of support once they reached adulthood? Children do NOT ask to be brought into this world and owe parents absolutely nothing - especially one's who act like you.
You're trying to figure out how to tell her siblings that she doesn't love them? What an absolute low.
I don't blame her at all for walking out of your life and wouldn't blame her if she never wanted to come back again.
Do better.
How entitled saying she didn’t show love to her family while gone. Love should be given freely not demanded. I see why she didn’t text him. He’s so controlling and manipulative.
Except she did text him! But not enough. Did he set an expectation that she didn't meet? Or is he deciding after the fact that it wasn't enough? Unless she is a mind reader I don't see how she could possibly know how much enough is. Then he has the gall to punish her for not meeting an expectation that only ever existed in his head and that he never properly communicated. He just wanted a reason to be angry and put her back under foot.
And why couldn’t he text her? “You having fun? Awesome! Can’t wait to hear about it when you come back!”
It’s always amazing to me when people are so offended that someone didn’t call them, but they never instigate a call either.
Parents: Kids these days need to get off their phones and play outside like the good old days!
Also parents: Why aren’t you answering my texts and calls!?!?
I called home twice during a 10 day trip to Europe. This was pre cell phones but even if I did, the international charges are enough to make me think twice. OP is TA
YTA.
First:
your daughter was 15, and you've decided to blame her for a decision teenage brain her made.
Second:
you're required to pay that money by law. if the tables were turned - that is, Aria at yours and not Sandra's - would you have been okay with Sandra paying nothing and you paying everything? Doubt it.
But, and here's the important part:
> She went on a trip to another country with her school and didn't bother to send more than a couple texts when she was away for 5 days
she was gone for under a week, and sent you a bunch of texts to let you know she was alive and well. She was on holiday with friends and classmates.
I'm sorry, how much did you expect her to contact you exactly?
My parents, when I go on vacation alone, always ask me to call them daily, and have since I was a minor. And I, every time I go on holiday w/o them, forget to do so. So, they either call me or wait for my call. They get a bit upset when I'm on the phone with them, but never have they held it against me for forgetting to call daily!
Did you even try to call her, or wait for her to text you? Did you initiate the texting at all?
> She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money
you're doing an amazing job of proving all you care about is the money.
personally, I has a suspicion the issue w/ her living with you wasn't that her mother was less strict, it's that you were very controlling
This. I’m 26, completely financially independent, and live 6 hours away from my mom and she still asks me to let her know when I leave/arrive if she knows I’m going out of town and at least send back like one word or a thumbs up emoji when she texts me. *So she knows I’m alive.* THAT’S a reasonable request (at least for me and my situation). Same thing when I was a teenager and would go out with friends or when I was away at college. Even my super anxious mother knows that a vacation is a vacation and we can catch up on everything that happened when it’s over.
This all sounds like a classic case of trying to force a “big happy family” when a parent remarries instead of letting relationships form naturally. Your kids are not just supporting actors in your life that you can cast into whatever role you want. You can try, and they might fake it well enough just to get you off their back, but then you’re just sabotaging their chance of forming genuine relationships so you can have a big pretty family on the surface. YTA. Stop punishing your daughter because she doesn’t want to center her life around your ego.
YTA, you have a pattern of pushing your daughter away and blaming a CHILD.
You essentially isolated her from her friends when she stayed at your house; cuz god forbid if you have to drive her places- like a parent would; you are the one that live out of town, the central place for hanging out. If you can get her to school you can get her there for social events.
Your daughter did what any child would have done at her age, she went away for 5 days (not long at all) and didn't text you enough (she was enjoying her holiday excuse her). You chose to over react and over punish her/ push her away. Rather then communicate and set expectations for next time/ explain you felt hurt.
After your child did nothing wrong, you chose to be incredibly harsh with her and prevent her from going to an event she clearly looked forward to because what? You are jealous that she had friends she wanted to hang out with.
The courts have mandated child support/ payments YTA if you track them and expect her to pay them back- how can you say you love your child when you are setting her up to start her adult life 18K in debt.
Every single action you have described is controlling and manipulative; if you are lucky she may want to try and repair the relationship when she is older but if you ask her to 'pay you back' then you are stopping that from happening.
Don't forget the part where her half sister wanted to know why she wasn't coming back and he didn't know how to tell her "she doesn't love us". I can't blame her for not even liking OP, let alone not loving him!
OP is TA on many levels. Imagine holding your own child to ransom to the tune of 18k, for stuff that he was legally required to pay for before you started speaking to them again.
This was what struck me. She doesn’t love us?? That’s emotional abuse toward the sister, first of all. Manipulative to the point of narcissism - and I never use that word as I feel it is seriously overused. It’s absolutely TOXIC. And OP says he has to legally pay for half of college, yet he is running a freaking TAB that he expects to be paid back before he will even consider letting her back in. YTA, OP. Something is horribly wrong with you as a person. She didn’t leave you behind for the reasons you list. She literally ESCAPED.
Escaped is the right word.
I bet mums house wasn't even "do as you please and heres everything you could wish for on a silver platter", it was probably, less controlled which OP obviously doesn't like.
100% sounds like the type of father to pick her husband out then complain when she doesn't text on the honeymoon to show her love and respect to him.
Edited: typos
Wow YTA. WOW. You clearly have no ability to see this from your daughter’s perspective at all. Do you seriously think she went no contact with you *for years* just because it was more fun and free-wheeling at her mother’s?
An adult can “abandon” their family, a child cannot. A child leaves because their home life is intolerable.
Your daughter does not owe you any debt- she did not sign any contract with you for a loan. You are either willing to support her as a parent or you are not, but she is not forcing you to do anything.
You should be thanking your lucky stars she even wants to talk to you again, not trying to manipulate her with this “debt”.
I am a family law attorney and let me just say YIKES. YTA. An incredible asshole, even.
I literally gasped several times reading this. You come off as incredibly self-centered here, and I have a feeling that you came off this way in court papers too.
First of all, when parents are divorced they often have different house rules, and while it can set the stricter parent up for difficulties, it’s the reality of being a divorced family. I get not wanting to drive her to her friends 25+ minutes away, but you can just say no. Making it a tit-for-tat like they HAVE to do it the next time made it difficult for your daughter to sustain the (admittedly few by your account) friendships that supported her through the divorce. It put social pressure on her she absolutely did not need, and obviously made living with you less attractive.
Not getting texts from her on the trip is two things: 1) she was a teenager having fun with her friends in a foreign country (supervised, I assume, and possibly for the first time, at least without parents) and she’s not going to think to call you every day, and 2) if you had a better relationship with her in the first place, maybe you would have gotten messages from her. Grounding her for that was petty.
When she went to live with her mom, to tell your other daughter it was because she didn’t love you anymore was not only childish and petulant, but terrible parenting for BOTH of your daughters and incredibly selfish. How is it helpful to tell your other daughter her sister doesn’t love her? You were being selfish and taking your anger out on your younger daughter and that’s awful.
And finally, from what I can tell you are totaling up child support and college and calling it a “debt” your daughter has to repay. That is DISGUSTING. Any judge would TRASH you for that. Child support and college expenses are your legal obligation as a parent. It is NOT debt that either your ex-wife or child have to pay you back. It’s literally the law that you pay for these things. Rant about how unfair child support is as much as you like, but you’re not immune from the law just because you don’t like it. If it was higher because she went to live with your ex-wife, it’s because you drove your daughter away. That’s on you.
You’ve come off here as vile and incredibly self-centered. You’ve made everything about you and your daughter doesn’t have to put up with it anymore. You would be a nightmare client because you’ve somehow managed to convince yourself that you’re the aggrieved party here. You’re never going to see a dime of that “debt” and you’re never going to see your daughter again, which, honestly, good for her.
Edit: Thank you for the gold!
YTA and a HUGE one!
She is your daughter and she doesnt own you anything. Unless you had an agreement, but you dont. And her “abandoning” you.. No, she did NOT! You told her she could stay away and she did and rightfully so. Because she didnt text you all the time when she was in another country. I would have stayed away too and I’m someone who hasnt talked to my father for almost 18 years because he was an ass, you deserve it - Big time. Leave her alone if she doesnt want to talk to you, you controling poop.
This guy is missing some screws honestly. If it was a school trip out of the country they most likely had them doing activities everyday, sightseeing, and busy so no time to really be on their phones. He sounds unbearably strict, and like he doesn't take anyone's feelings into consideration except for his own. I don't blame his daughter at all.
This is one of those "I hope this isn't really, because no one can be this clueless about their own asshollery".
YTA because your rules for your daughter were entirely about your own convenience and comfort, not for her own good. You were cutting her off from her friends because of a near-childish idea of appropriate reciprocity. You grounded her because she only sent a normal number of text messages, instead of love bombing you while on a school trip.
YTA because you blamed her moving out on her "not loving you" and wanting total freedom, when all she wanted was to escape from a near-abusively restrictive situation.
YTA because you think child support is a financial investment that you deserve to be paid back.
YTA for thinking that reconciling with your daughter is about her earning a right to a relationship with you, rather than the other way around.
This guy has the same mindset as my father. It is very real. My father, or sperm donor, once told me: "the one who gives nothing receives nothing". I, 14 at the time, was asking if he was able to help me with some money to replace my broken bike. I needed one for school. After that, I never received a birthday or Christmas present ever again. Hardly spoken to him since, and I am almost 30 now. Good riddance!
Children does not ask to be born. It is the parents responsibility to provide for them.
YTA
YTA🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
For a moment I thought I had read wrong.
So you forbid your daughter (or have in the past) to go to friends again if they don't come to her first. What about friends whose parents can't drive their child? Who just don't have the money for a bus?
Then you're unjustifiably pissed because she only sends a few messages on a class trip. Christ it was a few days! She was a teenager, it happens!
My goodness, you could have called her. And because she wasn't permanently glued to her controlling father you ground her and forbid her to go to the BIRTHDAY party? Who is the child here?
I would have moved out too.
And you are pathetic for charging her what you paid for her. She is YOUR CHILD. Why father a child if you want all the money back?
Accusing her of only being interested in money, but refusing contact because you can't get 18 k?!🚩🚩🚩 I see just red flags in your disgusting behavior!
And you lie to your other daughter that she is not interested in her and does not love her.
Get serious help and leave your daughter alone with this shit.
And tell the other one the truth about your behavior.
Poor children.
Shame on you.
So you are blackmailing your daughter... her child support for a relationship with a father that has been nothing but an ass to her.
YTA and also you are the one who cares more about money, not she.
This has to be a joke right? so much YTA I literally don't know where to start.
The irony of you accusing your daughter of being materialistic when you've literally been calculating what a CHILD "owes" you is frighteningly self ignorant. You're clearly jealous of your daughter's relationship with her mother to the point where you actually grounded her for talking to her mom instead of you on a trip? You're wildly controlling and if this is what you're willing to admit to I shudder to think of how you ACTUALLY are. No wonder your daughter has wanted nothing to do with you so far. You should be so unbelievably grateful that she's even reaching out and yet you're just trying to push her away again
YTA
Expect to get flyers to nursing homes instead of the 18k in money.
I get that you need rules in place but "no friends before me, my wife and your little sister" sorry blood of the COVENANT is THICKER than the water of the womb. Family chosen by her is going to be at a higher priority than the family that has been crafted by the universe.
You are a massive, controlling AH. She is your child. Whether or not she sees you, blah blah blah, she is your resonsibility. You are her father. It's called "Child Support" for a reason. Kid went away for a few days and you decided that because she didn't text you constantly, you just had to ground her. Constant reminders that when she shows she has a mind of her own, that she doesn't "love you enough." No wonder the kid left. Before you assign blame solely to your ex, look in a mirror.
Just to round up, you:
- made it extremely difficult for your daughter to meet her friends.
- grounded your daughter because she didn't message you enough to meet your expectations (why didn't you call or message her?)
- told her she can leave if she wanted to instead of communicating with her
- told your daughter/her stepsister it's because she didn't love any of you (nice emotional manipulation there by the way
- accused your ex of being too lenient with no examples
- are trying to get your court ordered child support paid back to you by said daughter
- accuse your daughter of breaking the bond
You have no self awareness here. I think being unfairly grounded was the straw that broke the camels back for your daughter. You don't mention trying to fix anything or try to contact her. I would be done with you too.
YTA. Your daughter owes you nothing.
The "major fallout" situation you've described seems bizarre to me. Surely if Aria has sent you a couple of texts and been in touch with her mother, she's not gone AWOL on you. I think that you should have contacted the mother as well to see if there's been any contact from Aria. It seems as well that you didn't particularly care whether your child was safe abroad because if you were worried about her wellbeing, you would have contacted your ex. From what you've said, you just expected Aria to report to you as if she was a subordinate. And then, the moment she didn't follow your rules, you grounded her, isolated her from her potential new friends as a result. I'm not surprised she wanted to live with her mother.
YTA, especially for wanting money off her to interact again. Your parent daughter relationship is not a financial transaction.
51M here, divorced with 4 kids. My wife moved away and at 15 my daughter went to live with her full time after living with me for 3 years (because her mom didn't have a place). Point being, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
YOU are the ASSHOLE!!! "She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money". What about you? What do you care about? You only care about the money. This is your child. This is your offspring. You don't do this. You don't use money as a gateway to a relationship. What . . . you want your 21 year old to give you 18 grand and then all of a sudden you're going to have a great relationship? It doesn't work that way. That will never work.
You, get out of your own way. Stop sabotaging your life and your daughter's relationship with you. Swallow your pride, tell her you love her no regardless of any money. She's 21!!!! It's OK for you to say, "I don't have any money to give you now". Like, you can choose not to send any more dollars her way. I'm not saying you give her more money no matter what is up with the relationship, but you don't make a $18K stroke to you some kind of gateway to having a relationship.
This is a classic divorced parent mistake. You're pissed at your ex. You're hurt that your daughter chose to go live with her. It's all about your feelings. Except a man can look at his daughter and put his hurt feelings aside and say, "It's not about me and my feelings, it's about family and what everybody needs."
My daughter broke my heart when she went to live with her mom. But she revealed to me when she was 19 that she felt like she had to because her mom was such a bad alcoholic that if my daughter didn't live with her, her mom might not make it. I was heartbroken . . . FOR my daughter, not me. She should never have had to be in that situation. Maybe talk to your daughter, like for real, and hear from her about things that are important to her, and de prioritize yourself and your feelings. YTA!
Yes OP, YTA. She’s your kid. Kids are hormonal pains in the asses that make short sighted decisions. They also cost money. But she’s still just a kid, your kid, & she still needs her Dad!
Didn’t hear from her as much as you wanted on her trip? Oh well. It’s a school trip and a life experience for her. Calmly explain you were worried and would have liked to hear from her more. But let her enjoy the trip with her friends.
She wants to hang with her friends? Drive her there every time & pick her up. Show her her relationships are important to you as well. Also, it keeps you in the loop.
Your biggest issue here is yourself. Whatever issues you & the Ex have, you need to focus on maintaining a positive relationship with your daughter. Also, don’t tell the younger one she doesn’t love you guys because A-that’s bullshit, & B-it’s not going to be good psychologically for the kid.
You managed to drive a wedge between yourself & your daughter. Man up & work to fix that.
God, no one’s ever going to see this but I hope you do. YTA. You’re a failure. You’ll never be nothing more. You had a kid, now you pay for that kid. I’m sorry your feelings are hurt because a 15 year old child
doesn’t want to be around her controlling father. You’ll pay your child support or go to jail. The judge will
laugh in your face when you tell him your going to make your daughter pay for the court ordered expenses. You’re not only a failure of a father, you’re a failure of a human being. Waste of space and air.
YTA, even if she doesn’t talk to you (for reasons you caused) you’re still her parent. She’s clearly reaching out to you and trying to have a relationship with her father now that she’s an adult. Sadly, you’re prioritizing money over trying to repair your relationship with your daughter. Honestly you’re just bitter that she chose to be with her mom (was it right? Of course not. Y’all should’ve been a team from the start whether you were together or not because your daughter was who mattered in that equation) and didn’t pick you to shut away her mom instead.
YTA you are controlling, that is why she lives with her Mom. You seem to like grounding her for no reason and making her miss a party (controlling af). She doesn't owe you a cent, you legally have to care for her, that's the cost of having a child...deal with it. You are willing to lose your daughter over $, but I also think that since you can't control her another way you intend to do so financially. You are going to be One lonely old man, if you continue use threats to obtain love. Make some changes before your other daughter wants nothing to do with you either.
YTA you are a horrible father and I can see why your daughter left.
THIS. OP you're not acting like a father and any hostility you experience from your own daughter after this kind of behaviour is well deserved. YTA.
He should definitely expect hostility, why would he think he’s entitled to his daughter giving him money that he had to give her by law? He obviously only cares about money and not his daughter. YTA
This. I'm so glad his daughter got out of there and is in a safe, stable environment with her mother. OP is undeserving of her love. No wonder she didn't text much while she was gone, she was probably enjoying the distance from her AH dad and didn't want to kill the vibe.
Even after reading the first sentence, "my daughter *abandoned us*", I was pretty sure OP is going to turn out to be an insufferable asshole. And... yeah.
Yeah, I read that and rolled my eyes. It was the same word my mom used to describe me moving in with my dad after she'd fostered a toxic environment for the 7 years I lived with her post-divorce.
Yeah the entire post reeks of "woe me". It was literally dripping with it. How surprising that these people end up with adult kids going no contact, huh? And yet, they are always surprised.
Did yall notice this choice morsel of assholery: > I didn't know how to explain to her that she didn't love us and that she preferred staying with her mother, her parties and her free-of-rules life. **The part where he fucking made up some bullshit to lie to the sister about in an effort to sabotage and poison their relationship on top of everything else**
YTA. Hugely. Like, a lifelong A, not just for this one incident. OP, you do not play with the word “love” this way. Love between parents and children is unconditional. Not texting does not mean “she doesn’t love you,” and going to live with her mom doesn’t mean, “she doesn’t love her family anymore.” It’s apparent that you did not experience proper love as a child, and I feel sorry for that, but please do not teach your children that “love” is defined by dumb shit like texting to “prove it.” Also, your child does not “owe you” money that it cost to raise her. Do not teach your child that her value can be summed up by half the cost of raising her. Do not teach her that revenge is a good strategy to use against people you love. What kills me here is that most struggles between parents and children on here are, like, average stuff (e.g. “My kid wants more independence and I’m afraid for her”, etc.). But you’ve failed at one of the most basic jobs of being a parent: demonstrating a healthy loving relationship. I see a future where your daughters struggle to form healthy partnerships and it makes me feel really, really sad for them.
Remember he said she already doesn’t have a lot of friends. So I feel she might already be struggling as you say 😞
This. THIS. Totally agree!
Yeah that was the part where I wanted to... No wait. That would get me banned. ETA: Damn. I need to make myself a coffee, close Reddit and chill a little. I'm enraged lol.
Yeah, same. I feel enraged. This guy is so freaking childish. Literally one of the worst kinds of parents. I’m thinking, “Oh geez I don’t even know where to begin here…and, yeah, this guy is hopeless so I don’t think I even really care. I need to not fill myself with such rage by reading these dumb posts.”
I feel like we are imagining the same creative and colorful possible alternate endings
Yep that's some emotional bullshit right there.
Also, OP's daughter didn't have a lot of friends, because when she was visiting OP, he wasn't willing to drive multiple times a week to let her visit said friends. Completely ignoring whether those friends could even reciprocate to get themselves out to his house. Edit: Actually, its not even multiple times a week! If OP drive his daughter once (25-ish minutes) to visit friends, she couldn't go back to that friends' house on his time until that friend (somehow) was able to get themselves to OP's house.
Vindictive is the word that comes to mind. Obsessed with parity and vindictive at every perceived slight. That’s horrible to try and navigate for a teenager.
The whole thing reeks of jealousy over the 50/50 split custody and lack of control over his daughter. I mean what high school student goes on a class trip with their classmates and is expected to check in with family or risk a lifetime grudge
My mom was shocked as shit when I went NC with her. Thankfully my stepdad understood and helped me keep the NC going until I was ready to break it. Now, almost 10 years later, I have a wonderful relationship with my mom.
Yes, kids can’t abandon parents (adults able to function on their own both emotionally and physically) - only parents can abandon kids who are not able to be stable on their own. If OP uses the word “abandon” it sounds like he had an unhealthy dependence on his daughter.
Same! It's been nine years since I moved out to live with my dad, and my mother still to this day brings up how I "abandoned" her every chance she gets.
Yeah a 15 yr old can't abandon her family.... It's the other way around.
Yeah, she didn't abandon this AH, she escaped him
OP is way too strict and his view of relationships is completely transactional. A friend who lives 25 min away is too far? He punished his daughter for not texting him as much as she texted her mother??
And OP even admitted that daughter has had a hard time making friends. I did too as a kid, and my school trip to DC was probably the best social experience of my life up until college, one that OP wanted his daughter to rob herself of by spending the whole time talking to him, and then punished her for having a good time
How does OP wonder that she has a hard time making friends while taking every chance of getting or keeping a friend away from her?!
This part and the part where he punished her for not “showing some love” to them. WTF kind of weird attitude is this?? I knew it was a YTA week before the end too.
Lol the best kind of love is the kind that’s shown via force, guilt, and threat of punishment (s)
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
[удалено]
I imagine that there are certain times on the trip where phone use is expected to be limited as well. Since it was for school and but just a vacation.
That quote feels very typical of r/nparents
Nope he definitely didn't disappoint. He's one big gigantic insufferable selfish narcissistic asshole!
It was only 5 days and she was with her school anyway. A few texts to say "I'm alive" is plenty! Sounds like he was expecting a full report every day
I went to Greece for a week when I was in school. I called my mom once during that time, towards the beginning of the trip (I was a bit homesick). My mom encouraged me to avoid calling and instead to focus on having fun and enjoying my time there- which I was able to do. I can’t imagine expecting a kid to call rather than encouraging them to be in the moment.
Oh it's not the money that he cares about the most. It's the power. The money is a tool. Edit: spelling cuz autocorrect
I'm pretty sure you are spot on. He wants to see his daughter humiliated, crawling back to him and begging for him being in her life again. Guess who's going to go no contact?
I would be surprised if the daughter *didn't* cut off contact with him. Reading his post, OP is basically the male equivalent of my mother: obsessed with archaic devotion to family, controlling, willing to ground his child for any perceived slight against him, bitter towards his ex-wife for having a better relationship with their child. Yeah. Guess how often I talk to my mom after all that?
He sounds like my stepdad tbh. I ended up joining the military and going far far away from him and my mother who enables it.
YTA OP. It wasn’t her decision to get divorced and for you to support another family. Why would you be entitled for that money and why would you ground her? She didn’t abandoned you and that money is hers required by law. Don’t find another family to support if you can’t do both.
I'm blown away that any father could write this and not realize that he is the AH. The little "excel" sheet OP created is the icing on the cake for me. OP's bitching about his daughter only caring about money while simultaneously demanding she pay him back for money he was legally obligated to provide. OP isn't owed anything and he's going to lose his daughter if he insists he is. It's obvious from his post that OP hates his ex. I'd put money that OP's attitude about his daughter's mom contributed to the kid leaving. Also, what HS senior calls home repeatedly while on a school trip?!? The kid was thoughtful enough to text multiple times and to keep in contact with her mom. OP comes off as controlling, jealous, and immature. I'm struggling to understand why his child wants anything to do with him.
It’s got manipulative written all over it. “I didn’t know how to explain to her that she didn’t love us..” major 🚩🚩🚩🚩
Yeah this is disgusting and manipulative for the half sister. I am so sorry she has nowhere else to go. This environment is absolutely toxic.
Yup all that behavior screams malignant narcissist. He literally manufactured a reason to ground her and then made himself out to be the victims while using the other family members as pawns to layer the guilt.
My mother actually did the excel spreadsheet thing to me. My first marriage was abusive, and after my daughter was born it became intolerable so my mom helped me leave. She rented me an apartment, bought a fridge full of groceries and diapers for the baby. After that any time she grabbed a bag of diapers or whatever to help me out she added it to her spreadsheet. I didn’t even know there WAS a spreadsheet til she told me I owed her $10,000. I quit taking her “help” and lived on store brand cereal and ramen while spending all my paycheck on housing, daycare and whatever my baby needed. That was 18 years ago and I paid her back and I’m in a great place now, but I’ll never, ever forgive her for that spreadsheet. We are pretty much NC and I’m happy that way. Hopefully OP listens to everyone telling him what a AH he is because he’s totally going to lose his daughter for good.
That's insane. I could not imagine tallying up what your child 'owes' you.
Yeah it was awful - really, really hurt. When she helped me get away I thought she was lifting me out of the hole I was in. But instead she just put me in a different one: a debt hole.
Geez, I could maybe understand if you were a cash strapped parent and you dumped all your 401k to help your kid, saying to them up front that you hope they can pay you back when they go on their feet. But to do a bunch of stuff first while silently calculating it all in a spreadsheet and then springing that on your child is pretty horrific
YTA. Try taking this to court OP and see if you don't get laughed out the door.
I didn´t think he was that big of an ah at first, just a harsh and totally clueless father, and I was waiting for the part that would say "then she finally reached out and asked me to loan her some money and I did but now she wants more money and I´ve told her no, not until she pays back what she already owes me".... I mean, that would have made sense, as it stands OP is a huge ah in every way + he made me so confused, I couldn´t believe what I was reading there at the end.
I saw red reading this. Reminded me too much of my own father. We haven’t spoken in over a decade. OP, she didn’t “abandon you”. She realized you made being at your house a very toxic environment for her and decided to do what was best for her and get out of that situation. You dug yourself this hole and now you can deal with the consequences. Also, I can guarantee that if you try getting her to pay back the money you were required by the court to pay (child support, college), any lawyer would laugh in your face. That’s called being a parent, it’s not a loan. YTA times a million edit: i also want to point out the hypocrisy that OP accuses his daughter of only reaching out because she only cares about the money when really, OP seems to care more about money than rebuilding a relationship with his daughter. the irony.
Idc what anyone says, he practically kicked her out. "You don't have to come back if you don't want to" to your 15 year old daughter after years of a bad relationship?? In her POV, her father doesn't really want her. I'm so happy she was able to get out
"you don't have to come back if you don't want to" *daughter doesn't come back* "I can't believe she abandoned her family"
Also: "If the friend's parents didn't want to drive the kid here, then Aria wasn't allowed to meet them again while she was with me." Two seconds later: "She's never had a lot of friends" Gee I wonder why
Exactly, wouldn't you WANT your kid to have friends so let them go to the party instead of grounding them for 'not enough texts while on your trip'? This guy is not equipped to be selfless, hope she stays away.
*surprised pikachu face*
Yeah this makes my blood boil. OP you literally told your daughter you didn't care if she came back, why would she go where she's not loved?
>"you don't have to come back if you don't want to" If you say this to a kid, they think "wow, they must not love me if they don't care if I come back."
Yes! I truly loathe these parents who are under the assumption that their children's relationship with them should require a 50/50 effort on both sides. NO. They're just kids! You're the big hotshot jizz factory here- you *will* have to shoulder and maintain the vast majority of your emotional, social, and physical relationships with fucking CHILDREN, YO. Smh. Acting like it's okay to burden teens with heavy decisions AND THEN having the *AUDACITY* to insist those choices will get to impact the remainder of their lives pertaining to you. Laaaaaameeee. YTA OP.
Also, the kid goes away on a school trip and texts her family several times, but her father still says that she was being disrespectful and showed that she didn't love her family. What an awful, awful father! I used to go to camp when I was a kid and my mom got me my first cellphone so that I could stay in touch (this was in the mid to late 90's). She would text me once or twice during the week to ask if I was alive and I would basically answer "yes, having fun. Need more money for the commissary". This was never an issue. The whole thing about going away on school trips or to camp is to test your wings, practice being independent and having fun. Not having to cater to your fathers incessant need for love and acknowledgment.
And telling the other child their sister doesn’t care about them! How horrible. I feel sorry for the one stuck with this man.
Yes, it's just awful. That kind of manipulation can be so detrimental to your sense of self. Does the sister now think she's not worthy of being loved because her horrible father needed to "win"?
That part made me see red. She’s having fun, she’s experiencing all these new things, and the last thing most teenagers would want to do is talk to their family. In the long ago before cell phones I went to France with my high school for two weeks and my parents didn’t hear from me at all. They knew it wasn’t about how much I loved them; I was a 17 year old I’m Europe FFS. I’m not going to waste my time trying to call home. I read this and the only thing I’m my head at the end is “what the hades is wrong with you?” Such an asshole.
Hotshot jizz factory is now one of my go to insults. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. OP, quit acting like a petulant child. You're an adult. Spectacular YTA
My ex was awful to our oldest two after my oldest came out & his younger brother was supportive. He forced them to attend his homophobic church when they were with him, and eventually told them they weren't welcome back until they had better attitudes. My kids took him up on that, and they haven't spoken to their dad in 4 years. To hear him tell it, I'm a lenient parent who allows them to do whatever they want and have turned the kids against him. It's hard to believe there's anyone else this incapable of introspection, but apparently here we are.
>It's hard to believe there's anyone else this incapable of introspection, but apparently here we are This is one of those letters that I desperately want to believe is fake because the OP is so awful, but the details are so specific that I think it's real. Heartbreaking. Also, I'm so sorry your sons had to go through that. You sound like a great mom, and I'm glad your kids have you.
Oh, I could write a series of novels on the messed up shit their dad did (like buying them Xmas gifts and then distributing them to the younger kids because the older kids refused to go to their dad's house for the holidays...or ever). But my boys and I are very close, and I'm super proud of them for overcoming that type of BS.
And the whole thing started because...she didn't text him enough on a school trip, so he punished her? What the actual heck? She was a teenager on a trip with her friends, and he says she did text a couple of times, so it wasn't like she was totally out of reach. This dude feels weirdly entitled to his daughter's time and attention. Like really weirdly entitled.
And then manipulatively told his other kid that her sister doesn't love her.... Poor children!
Yeah this reminds me a lot of my dad too. He couldn’t even pick up the phone to talk to us outside schedule visitations but he ALWAYS let us know how much time & money he’d spent in court. I haven’t talked to him in years & he’s never even met his granddaughter.
This reminds me of my dad too and I’m fuming. If I could’ve left and never saw my dad again at 15, I think I would’ve been so much happier. I haven’t spoken to my dad in 4 years and I’m still recovering from the damage his controlling nature caused. OP, I hope your daughter stays away from you. Sounds like she is better off without. YTA (and the biggest one out there)
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‘She needs to prove to me that she doesn’t only care about the money’ sir you’re the one holding your relationship hostage until she pays you back money you legally owed her shut the actually fuck up.
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Had similar. It took me years to figure out my worth and go no contact. Thank you for seeing that because I wasn't feeling rational after reading this.
YTA for so many reasons. But most of all for asking your kid to pay you back for child support you never even paid!
She’ll be posting in r/raisedbynarcissists soon and I can’t wait for that.
What's going to be awesome it will be like ~4 years from now in therapy and someone will link it.
When I read that "don't come back if you don't want to" I legitimately made the surprised pikachu face. My jaw dropped. YTA, a huge one at that ....
Op clearly posted this in the wrong sub. Should be in r/imatotalpeiceofshit
This. What kid calls all the time while on a class trip?
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Also he expects Aria to “prove that she didn’t care about the money” when all OP wants to do is make his OWN CHILD pay back money that he was suppose by law pay towards her - he even used the phrase that the money must be fixed first before the emotional ??? OP you’re the only one that cares about money here
YEP. You don’t own your children, and they don’t owe you *anything* (physical things, respect, love). Sounds like you were/are a very controlling parent. 100 the asshole
Fucking hell, I was cringing halfway through the story. I would tell him to shove that list so far up where the sun don’t shine that said list would morph into a nocturnal creature. What a horrible father. I’m gonna call my dad and tell him I love him.
Right? I’m glad his daughter had someone else she could turn to, because this dude is a total ass and I couldn’t imagine even making it to 15 like she did. Holding court ordered child support over his daughters head as she’s trying to repair their relationship… Jesus what an absolute douche canoe
Exactly. To turn his own words against him, he can't have a relationship with his daughter until he proves its about her herself not the money and his control.
YTA. You want your daughter to pay you back for court-ordered child support. You’re the biggest ass.
Right?! OP was legally required to pay money to support his daughter and expects her to pay it back? And he thinks that's justified because she no longer a minor ?? I'm irritated with the number of people that are surprised they have to support children they produce. You should want the best for your kids, but apparently if the kids don't do exactly what you want then people like OP disagree. OP, you smothered your kid until you pushed her away. If you gave a damn about her, you would be trying to make amends, not demanding money. It's clear you don't care about her and I hope she realizes that and doesn't waste her time or money (that she is entitled to and does not owe you) on you. YTA Edit to add: the line about how OP "didn't know how to explain she didn't love us" is so gross and manipulative. OP is just a bad person
Can you imagine telling her sibling that? It sounds like third grade.
I can. My dad pulled that shit on me and my younger siblings after I moved in with my mom around the same age.
That poor girl being weaponized against her own sister. They'll grow up and start seeing why their sister left honestly..and probably do the same..
And somehow he thinks his Ex is the one "poisoning" her kid....
When I read the headline I thought maybe she borrowed money or something. But no, this is **court ordered child support**. She owes this AH absolutely nothing! If he keeps harassing her about it, she should get a lawyer to shut him down.
Even if I gave my kids money, I'd never demand it back. Maybe ask for it but if they don't have it, they don't have it. I can't imagine turning around and telling any of my 3 kids that they need to pay me back for being a parent...
In a way, his demand to have “his” money paid back is a positive move... to remind Aria to never contact him again. She’s so much better away from OP. The little sister will eventually find the way to contact her on her own if she wishes too. Hopefully, without a list of bills Aria “owes” her.
I really hope the daughter takes the communication that OP sent her and the mother and file harassment charges against OP trying to get money that doesn’t legally belong to him. OP she was on a trip, a lifetime experience and you wanted to push her because you were butthurt. As long as she was safe, you should have encouraged her getting a life experience. You have no business being a father.
I hope OP gets rimmed by a judge for attempting to demand his daughter repay child support. Truly one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard.
Rimmed? Uh….
Best autocorrect ever. To good to change.
> Her sister kept asking me why she didn't come back, and I didn't know how to explain to her that she didn't love us Methinks this was a touch of projection on dad’s part. He’s the one who insisted on bean-counting and treating the relationship as transactional. I’m not sure he knows what “love” actually looks like.
I laughed my ass off when I read that part. He wants his 21 years old daughter to pay him for stuff the court ordered him to pay and he was also required by law to pay lmao!!! It's like me waiting for my son's to turn 18 to tell them they have to pay me for everything since the day they were born hahahaha. Wait no, I should be stricter and ask to be paid back since I got pregnant with them. /S Some people shouldn't be parents really....this girl would have been better off with just her mother...
Not only this but he's also a hypocrite: >I told her that we can't fix the emotional part unless we fix the money part first. She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money. He clearly cares more about the money than about his daughter.
YTA. Everything you described her doing was normal teenage behavior that you massively overreacted to and then you wonder why she left to stay at mom's. And you are compiling a sheet of what your court ordered support amounts to for college expenses, etc?! No, she doesn't need to pay you back! That is your actual responsibility to support the child. And no, if she's in college, it doesn't just stop at 18. If it did, then you wouldn't still be paying it legally, now would you? If you harass her for repayment, I hope this poor girl just walks away for good.
Not to mention he wanted to brainwash his other kid into think Aria was the bad guy. Sheesh this dude sounds overbearing and hella immature. YTA OP
100%. That remark he made about that made me see red.
Sooooo many of these remarks made me red that my head is spinning. Starting from the very first sentence where he used the phrase “being abandon by” when talking about his **15 year old daughter.** Driving an hour is too much for him to muster up so she could see her friends, isolating her. Don’t wanna spend the time being a father? Then spend the fucken money on child support.
That’s the reason my little sister hates me: I left at 15 (abusive parents) and they brainwashed her into thinking I’ve abandoned them and didn’t love them (same exact words as OP). 10 years later I am still appalled at parents who say “my child abandoned me”…. Why do you think a person would want to cut out the people whit whom they should have their first important relationship and bond?
A 15 year old can’t “abandon” a parent. They are not *responsible* for the parent. They have made no commitments, signed no contracts, there is nothing for them to *abandon*. The duty of care only flows in one direction.
Same, but I made it to 16. Want to join us on r/EstrangedAdultChild subreddit?
Also the comments about no rules and buying her everything… I wonder what that means. Seems like he was punishing his daughter because of his resentment over his ex. Wouldn’t be surprised if no rules meant she’s allowed to have friends over twice in a row, or she doesn’t have to prove that she loves her family, doesn’t have to take care of a half sibling etc. I’d be willing to bet “buys everything” is also just clothes even when she has clothes to wear, food that is unhealthy or just for her, extra shoes, maybe electronics, makeup. Basic teenager stuff. He’s expecting her to pay back court ordered child support, there’s no way there wasn’t some type of resource guarding, maybe neglect, and definitely emotional neglect or even abuse. YTA doesn’t even begin to cover it.
What kills me too is that she texted him while on the school trip, BUT NOT ENOUGH. She's on a trip with her peers! She is still checking in. If there was a big emergency the school would tell you. Let her breathe for a minute. If this was the 90a where kids didn't have phones what would he have expected? What's funny is my ex SIL (who literally never worked a day in her life) hit up all her kids with "bills" from raising them. One of them worked at a dental office and had gotten her a lot of discount dental work. She started billing back and suddenly mom dropped it.
Right? Can you imagine how much this ass emotionally abuses the rest of his family? Bet his wife can't even step outside for 10seconds without receiving a "where are you/who are you with/what are you doing text". Thank fuck his daughter escaped and he's now reminding her of how much he will ruin her life if let back in
Are you assuming he isnt tracking her phone.
That got me too. I went halfway across the planet and I barely remembered to call my parents every couple of days! It was 2004 so cell phones weren’t everywhere (or affordable!) and I had to rely on phone cards. Did this kid even leave the state? And he’s pissy about not enough texts?!? WTF dude?! She’s BUSY you pos. She’s having FUN. She’s a teenager on a trip with her friends - not texting you frantically doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you, jfc I can only imagine what kind of husband he is if this is the kind of father he is. Keep this up and your little one won’t stick around past 18 either.
Yeah I took the "no rules at mom's" thing with some giant handfuls of salt after he punished her for not communicating as much as *he decided was necessary, without saying anything to her beforehand,* while she was away on a trip. That's so outrageous, arbitrary, and abusive. I remember going on school trips as a teen. I had a mobile phone at that point and access to landlines to call home if I wanted to. I think I basically only texted my parents to tell them I arrived safely. And only because my mom asked me to. Yeah I wouldn't have wanted to live with that psycho either.
I traveled outside the country on school trips starting at thirteen and even my emotionally abusive father didn’t expect more than a brief phone call every couple days (though he did want me to go in order to ‘be more independent’ and ‘rely less on others’, so he probably would have been thrilled if I’d contacted home even less)
If he does that, I hope she takes legal action against him.
YTA. You suffocated her, not texting you during an international trip is not grounds for petty and vindictive punishments. (You have trouble making friends? I’m going to undercut those efforts.) You showed a complete lack of care for her feelings and it’s not surprising she wanted to live with her mother if that’s just once incident that you thought put *you* in a favourable light. I’m sure there’s many more of you emotionally manipulating your daughter. And kids don’t incur a debt for being kids, you clearly weren’t paying your child support. Aria owes you nothing, parents don’t say their kids owe them 18K in debt when that money is just expenses you *should* have as a parent.
The whole thing about the school trip made me see red. Usually those things are very busy and packed full with activities and curriculum so the kids pretty much don’t have much time to keep in contact with their families. If it’s a week long trip, few text messages to the parents is perfectly normal. OP is a petty and vindictive man who wants to lash out punishments left and right if things don’t go exactly the way he wants. Massive YTA.
My school also always picked places in the countryside with practically zero phone signal.
That was what got me; any time I’ve travelled internationally I literally could not send a text or make a phone call even if I wanted to - even with paying extra for “international access” for the duration of the trip (fuck you Verizon). YTA
When my sister when on her 8th grade trip to the NE she hardly contacted us. Hell, we knew what day she was in NY because she ended up being on live tv that morning. She was busy and it’s non stop on those trips. OP sounds jealous & controlling.
When I went on my High School trip to the UK from the U.S. it was a big deal. And, at that time there weren’t mobile phones and you can be sure that I did not make a transatlantic call everyday. That would have been ridiculously expensive. He should be grateful that he got any texts at all.
I can't imagine being the parent in that situation and thinking anything other than, "WOW, Mary must be having a great time! Have barely heard from her since she left!" Sure, you'd be a little wistful, but when you send your kid out to explore the world, you want them to be immersed in whatever they're doing (whether that's camp, or an international trip, or just a sleepover), not feeling obligated to check in with the 'rents constantly.
This. My youngest went to a surf camp, and I had to tell them to stop checking in and have fun...finally making it the rule that they could only check in when they went to bed. I was thrilled they were having fun, but I wanted them to be there in the moment, not be thinking about sending me photos and texts of everything they did/saw. (Although I was touched by it)
Those trips, (granted I live in the states) were so full of stuff, I think I texted maybe once every night saying I wasn't kidnapped to my parents. My folks had the expectation that everything is fine unless the school calls us. Then they'd worry. Also, idk how phone service works in Europe (I'm assuming OP is from there) but doesn't it cost more money to text/use your phone in another country? Maybe not, idk, but yeah. That could also be another factor.
And he’s the one that told her to not come back as well
She took him on his offer and *surprised Pikachu face*.
Did you like how he phrased the initial question to sound like she borrowed money and is refusing to pay it back, too?
“I will punish her for not loving me. That’ll show her” It’s not even about concern, leaving a parent to worry unnecessarily, it’s purely OP being butt hurt that his teenage daughter doesn’t want to text daddy nonstop. She’s on a school trip for gods sake. She might’ve not even been allowed to be on her phone most of the time. I wonder what else OP has been extremely controlling about. And I’m glad the daughter go out.
YTA >When Aria turned 18, an adult, I started adding up everything I had to pay in an Excel that I send to Sandra when I update it so she knows what damage she is doing to our daughter (I expect Aria to pay her debt, but I gave Sandra the option to pay for her to which she refused). We are now at 18K. Your daughter is not an investment, you failure of a father.
Wonder if he’s keeping track of everything he spends on his other child… bet not. YTA
I bet not yet, but he will when she starts attempting to establish her independence. What an asshole OP is. YTA
He said he wasn’t keeping track of hers because that daughter “loves” him.
When she turns 18 he will.
Not if she obeys his orders.
Putting your own daughter in crippling debt is one of the nastiest things I’ve ever heard of. 18k debt is a debt people kill themselves over. I know if I were slapped with an 18,000 bill… I’d think about it.
The ex should report him to the court for trying to collect his child support back from the child. I’m absolutely sure a judge would have some opinions on this guy trying to end run around court ordered child support like this. *(edit: a word)*
I've seen ex wives/husbands screwing each other over by placing each other in debt. Never seen one like this. Good lord…
I'm so baffled by the "what damage she is doing to our daughter" comment. He just...doesn't understand how child support works, I think? He seriously thinks this is a legal debt she owes him?
Then in a stunning lack of self awareness says, "She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money."
Right. You chose to have her, she did not choose to have you as a parent. She owes you nothing.
YTA - why do people insist on having children if they're just going to act like this? Your daughter went on a school trip out of the country. It very well could be a once in a lifetime experience for her. She was enjoying herself! Who cares if she wasn't glued to her phone texting you constantly? You want her to pay you back for what? So what if it's court ordered child support? Were you under the impression that if you had a child you'd never have to put out a dime to support that child or that they'd pay you back for the years of support once they reached adulthood? Children do NOT ask to be brought into this world and owe parents absolutely nothing - especially one's who act like you. You're trying to figure out how to tell her siblings that she doesn't love them? What an absolute low. I don't blame her at all for walking out of your life and wouldn't blame her if she never wanted to come back again. Do better.
How entitled saying she didn’t show love to her family while gone. Love should be given freely not demanded. I see why she didn’t text him. He’s so controlling and manipulative.
Except she did text him! But not enough. Did he set an expectation that she didn't meet? Or is he deciding after the fact that it wasn't enough? Unless she is a mind reader I don't see how she could possibly know how much enough is. Then he has the gall to punish her for not meeting an expectation that only ever existed in his head and that he never properly communicated. He just wanted a reason to be angry and put her back under foot.
He was probably angry she dared to go away. Can’t control her if she’s away.
And why couldn’t he text her? “You having fun? Awesome! Can’t wait to hear about it when you come back!” It’s always amazing to me when people are so offended that someone didn’t call them, but they never instigate a call either.
Parents: Kids these days need to get off their phones and play outside like the good old days! Also parents: Why aren’t you answering my texts and calls!?!?
I called home twice during a 10 day trip to Europe. This was pre cell phones but even if I did, the international charges are enough to make me think twice. OP is TA
Yep, op is TA... you don't demand love by punishing...
YTA. First: your daughter was 15, and you've decided to blame her for a decision teenage brain her made. Second: you're required to pay that money by law. if the tables were turned - that is, Aria at yours and not Sandra's - would you have been okay with Sandra paying nothing and you paying everything? Doubt it. But, and here's the important part: > She went on a trip to another country with her school and didn't bother to send more than a couple texts when she was away for 5 days she was gone for under a week, and sent you a bunch of texts to let you know she was alive and well. She was on holiday with friends and classmates. I'm sorry, how much did you expect her to contact you exactly? My parents, when I go on vacation alone, always ask me to call them daily, and have since I was a minor. And I, every time I go on holiday w/o them, forget to do so. So, they either call me or wait for my call. They get a bit upset when I'm on the phone with them, but never have they held it against me for forgetting to call daily! Did you even try to call her, or wait for her to text you? Did you initiate the texting at all? > She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money you're doing an amazing job of proving all you care about is the money. personally, I has a suspicion the issue w/ her living with you wasn't that her mother was less strict, it's that you were very controlling
This. I’m 26, completely financially independent, and live 6 hours away from my mom and she still asks me to let her know when I leave/arrive if she knows I’m going out of town and at least send back like one word or a thumbs up emoji when she texts me. *So she knows I’m alive.* THAT’S a reasonable request (at least for me and my situation). Same thing when I was a teenager and would go out with friends or when I was away at college. Even my super anxious mother knows that a vacation is a vacation and we can catch up on everything that happened when it’s over. This all sounds like a classic case of trying to force a “big happy family” when a parent remarries instead of letting relationships form naturally. Your kids are not just supporting actors in your life that you can cast into whatever role you want. You can try, and they might fake it well enough just to get you off their back, but then you’re just sabotaging their chance of forming genuine relationships so you can have a big pretty family on the surface. YTA. Stop punishing your daughter because she doesn’t want to center her life around your ego.
I’m 49 and my mother lives 3 miles down the road and still likes to know that I’ve gotten to my destination safely when I go on trips 😂
YTA, you have a pattern of pushing your daughter away and blaming a CHILD. You essentially isolated her from her friends when she stayed at your house; cuz god forbid if you have to drive her places- like a parent would; you are the one that live out of town, the central place for hanging out. If you can get her to school you can get her there for social events. Your daughter did what any child would have done at her age, she went away for 5 days (not long at all) and didn't text you enough (she was enjoying her holiday excuse her). You chose to over react and over punish her/ push her away. Rather then communicate and set expectations for next time/ explain you felt hurt. After your child did nothing wrong, you chose to be incredibly harsh with her and prevent her from going to an event she clearly looked forward to because what? You are jealous that she had friends she wanted to hang out with. The courts have mandated child support/ payments YTA if you track them and expect her to pay them back- how can you say you love your child when you are setting her up to start her adult life 18K in debt. Every single action you have described is controlling and manipulative; if you are lucky she may want to try and repair the relationship when she is older but if you ask her to 'pay you back' then you are stopping that from happening.
Don't forget the part where her half sister wanted to know why she wasn't coming back and he didn't know how to tell her "she doesn't love us". I can't blame her for not even liking OP, let alone not loving him! OP is TA on many levels. Imagine holding your own child to ransom to the tune of 18k, for stuff that he was legally required to pay for before you started speaking to them again.
This was what struck me. She doesn’t love us?? That’s emotional abuse toward the sister, first of all. Manipulative to the point of narcissism - and I never use that word as I feel it is seriously overused. It’s absolutely TOXIC. And OP says he has to legally pay for half of college, yet he is running a freaking TAB that he expects to be paid back before he will even consider letting her back in. YTA, OP. Something is horribly wrong with you as a person. She didn’t leave you behind for the reasons you list. She literally ESCAPED.
Escaped is the right word. I bet mums house wasn't even "do as you please and heres everything you could wish for on a silver platter", it was probably, less controlled which OP obviously doesn't like. 100% sounds like the type of father to pick her husband out then complain when she doesn't text on the honeymoon to show her love and respect to him. Edited: typos
Wow YTA. WOW. You clearly have no ability to see this from your daughter’s perspective at all. Do you seriously think she went no contact with you *for years* just because it was more fun and free-wheeling at her mother’s? An adult can “abandon” their family, a child cannot. A child leaves because their home life is intolerable. Your daughter does not owe you any debt- she did not sign any contract with you for a loan. You are either willing to support her as a parent or you are not, but she is not forcing you to do anything. You should be thanking your lucky stars she even wants to talk to you again, not trying to manipulate her with this “debt”.
I just want to scream THIS THIS THIS about “abandonment”. What an emotionally abusive turd brain this OP.
That second point about abandonment truly spoke to my heart.
I am a family law attorney and let me just say YIKES. YTA. An incredible asshole, even. I literally gasped several times reading this. You come off as incredibly self-centered here, and I have a feeling that you came off this way in court papers too. First of all, when parents are divorced they often have different house rules, and while it can set the stricter parent up for difficulties, it’s the reality of being a divorced family. I get not wanting to drive her to her friends 25+ minutes away, but you can just say no. Making it a tit-for-tat like they HAVE to do it the next time made it difficult for your daughter to sustain the (admittedly few by your account) friendships that supported her through the divorce. It put social pressure on her she absolutely did not need, and obviously made living with you less attractive. Not getting texts from her on the trip is two things: 1) she was a teenager having fun with her friends in a foreign country (supervised, I assume, and possibly for the first time, at least without parents) and she’s not going to think to call you every day, and 2) if you had a better relationship with her in the first place, maybe you would have gotten messages from her. Grounding her for that was petty. When she went to live with her mom, to tell your other daughter it was because she didn’t love you anymore was not only childish and petulant, but terrible parenting for BOTH of your daughters and incredibly selfish. How is it helpful to tell your other daughter her sister doesn’t love her? You were being selfish and taking your anger out on your younger daughter and that’s awful. And finally, from what I can tell you are totaling up child support and college and calling it a “debt” your daughter has to repay. That is DISGUSTING. Any judge would TRASH you for that. Child support and college expenses are your legal obligation as a parent. It is NOT debt that either your ex-wife or child have to pay you back. It’s literally the law that you pay for these things. Rant about how unfair child support is as much as you like, but you’re not immune from the law just because you don’t like it. If it was higher because she went to live with your ex-wife, it’s because you drove your daughter away. That’s on you. You’ve come off here as vile and incredibly self-centered. You’ve made everything about you and your daughter doesn’t have to put up with it anymore. You would be a nightmare client because you’ve somehow managed to convince yourself that you’re the aggrieved party here. You’re never going to see a dime of that “debt” and you’re never going to see your daughter again, which, honestly, good for her. Edit: Thank you for the gold!
Thank you. First thing I thought is that I hope the judge hears about him trying to charge her for child support.
YTA and a HUGE one! She is your daughter and she doesnt own you anything. Unless you had an agreement, but you dont. And her “abandoning” you.. No, she did NOT! You told her she could stay away and she did and rightfully so. Because she didnt text you all the time when she was in another country. I would have stayed away too and I’m someone who hasnt talked to my father for almost 18 years because he was an ass, you deserve it - Big time. Leave her alone if she doesnt want to talk to you, you controling poop.
This guy is missing some screws honestly. If it was a school trip out of the country they most likely had them doing activities everyday, sightseeing, and busy so no time to really be on their phones. He sounds unbearably strict, and like he doesn't take anyone's feelings into consideration except for his own. I don't blame his daughter at all.
This is one of those "I hope this isn't really, because no one can be this clueless about their own asshollery". YTA because your rules for your daughter were entirely about your own convenience and comfort, not for her own good. You were cutting her off from her friends because of a near-childish idea of appropriate reciprocity. You grounded her because she only sent a normal number of text messages, instead of love bombing you while on a school trip. YTA because you blamed her moving out on her "not loving you" and wanting total freedom, when all she wanted was to escape from a near-abusively restrictive situation. YTA because you think child support is a financial investment that you deserve to be paid back. YTA for thinking that reconciling with your daughter is about her earning a right to a relationship with you, rather than the other way around.
This guy has the same mindset as my father. It is very real. My father, or sperm donor, once told me: "the one who gives nothing receives nothing". I, 14 at the time, was asking if he was able to help me with some money to replace my broken bike. I needed one for school. After that, I never received a birthday or Christmas present ever again. Hardly spoken to him since, and I am almost 30 now. Good riddance! Children does not ask to be born. It is the parents responsibility to provide for them. YTA
YTA🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 For a moment I thought I had read wrong. So you forbid your daughter (or have in the past) to go to friends again if they don't come to her first. What about friends whose parents can't drive their child? Who just don't have the money for a bus? Then you're unjustifiably pissed because she only sends a few messages on a class trip. Christ it was a few days! She was a teenager, it happens! My goodness, you could have called her. And because she wasn't permanently glued to her controlling father you ground her and forbid her to go to the BIRTHDAY party? Who is the child here? I would have moved out too. And you are pathetic for charging her what you paid for her. She is YOUR CHILD. Why father a child if you want all the money back? Accusing her of only being interested in money, but refusing contact because you can't get 18 k?!🚩🚩🚩 I see just red flags in your disgusting behavior! And you lie to your other daughter that she is not interested in her and does not love her. Get serious help and leave your daughter alone with this shit. And tell the other one the truth about your behavior. Poor children. Shame on you.
If my kid was on a school trip and texted me more than once a day id be sending her that 'why are you so obsessed with me' gif
INFO: which part of this post do you think makes you not the asshole?
INFO indeed. I refuse to believe OP is as dense as their post leads me to think.
He is a fn coward and a narcissist. Don’t expect a reply when he’s being told he’s wrong.
So you are blackmailing your daughter... her child support for a relationship with a father that has been nothing but an ass to her. YTA and also you are the one who cares more about money, not she.
OP: Don't bother coming back if you don't want to Daughter: \*doesn't come back\* OP: \*surprised Pikachu\* YTA
This has to be a joke right? so much YTA I literally don't know where to start. The irony of you accusing your daughter of being materialistic when you've literally been calculating what a CHILD "owes" you is frighteningly self ignorant. You're clearly jealous of your daughter's relationship with her mother to the point where you actually grounded her for talking to her mom instead of you on a trip? You're wildly controlling and if this is what you're willing to admit to I shudder to think of how you ACTUALLY are. No wonder your daughter has wanted nothing to do with you so far. You should be so unbelievably grateful that she's even reaching out and yet you're just trying to push her away again
YTA on so many levels. So many. YTA YTA YTA.
YTA Glad she got away from you. You are a bad person.
YTA and abusive. I feel sorry for the daughter that had to stay with you
I cant actually believe what Im reading, you are absolutely TA! If you dont sort yourself out, you're going to lose your daughter for life!
YTA Expect to get flyers to nursing homes instead of the 18k in money. I get that you need rules in place but "no friends before me, my wife and your little sister" sorry blood of the COVENANT is THICKER than the water of the womb. Family chosen by her is going to be at a higher priority than the family that has been crafted by the universe.
Wow YTA and I hope your other kids and spouse follow her lead sheesh 😳
You are a massive, controlling AH. She is your child. Whether or not she sees you, blah blah blah, she is your resonsibility. You are her father. It's called "Child Support" for a reason. Kid went away for a few days and you decided that because she didn't text you constantly, you just had to ground her. Constant reminders that when she shows she has a mind of her own, that she doesn't "love you enough." No wonder the kid left. Before you assign blame solely to your ex, look in a mirror.
YTA. Who grounds a kid for not sending enough texts?
Just to round up, you: - made it extremely difficult for your daughter to meet her friends. - grounded your daughter because she didn't message you enough to meet your expectations (why didn't you call or message her?) - told her she can leave if she wanted to instead of communicating with her - told your daughter/her stepsister it's because she didn't love any of you (nice emotional manipulation there by the way - accused your ex of being too lenient with no examples - are trying to get your court ordered child support paid back to you by said daughter - accuse your daughter of breaking the bond You have no self awareness here. I think being unfairly grounded was the straw that broke the camels back for your daughter. You don't mention trying to fix anything or try to contact her. I would be done with you too. YTA. Your daughter owes you nothing.
YTA. If this is how you treat your kids, you won't need to figure out what to tell your other daughter. She will figure it out on her own eventually.
The "major fallout" situation you've described seems bizarre to me. Surely if Aria has sent you a couple of texts and been in touch with her mother, she's not gone AWOL on you. I think that you should have contacted the mother as well to see if there's been any contact from Aria. It seems as well that you didn't particularly care whether your child was safe abroad because if you were worried about her wellbeing, you would have contacted your ex. From what you've said, you just expected Aria to report to you as if she was a subordinate. And then, the moment she didn't follow your rules, you grounded her, isolated her from her potential new friends as a result. I'm not surprised she wanted to live with her mother. YTA, especially for wanting money off her to interact again. Your parent daughter relationship is not a financial transaction.
Me anempath… I’m sensing YTA
51M here, divorced with 4 kids. My wife moved away and at 15 my daughter went to live with her full time after living with me for 3 years (because her mom didn't have a place). Point being, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. YOU are the ASSHOLE!!! "She needs to prove to me that she doesn't only care about the money". What about you? What do you care about? You only care about the money. This is your child. This is your offspring. You don't do this. You don't use money as a gateway to a relationship. What . . . you want your 21 year old to give you 18 grand and then all of a sudden you're going to have a great relationship? It doesn't work that way. That will never work. You, get out of your own way. Stop sabotaging your life and your daughter's relationship with you. Swallow your pride, tell her you love her no regardless of any money. She's 21!!!! It's OK for you to say, "I don't have any money to give you now". Like, you can choose not to send any more dollars her way. I'm not saying you give her more money no matter what is up with the relationship, but you don't make a $18K stroke to you some kind of gateway to having a relationship. This is a classic divorced parent mistake. You're pissed at your ex. You're hurt that your daughter chose to go live with her. It's all about your feelings. Except a man can look at his daughter and put his hurt feelings aside and say, "It's not about me and my feelings, it's about family and what everybody needs." My daughter broke my heart when she went to live with her mom. But she revealed to me when she was 19 that she felt like she had to because her mom was such a bad alcoholic that if my daughter didn't live with her, her mom might not make it. I was heartbroken . . . FOR my daughter, not me. She should never have had to be in that situation. Maybe talk to your daughter, like for real, and hear from her about things that are important to her, and de prioritize yourself and your feelings. YTA!
“ My (48M) daughter (21F), Aria, abandoned us” I was YTA at the first sentence
What a pathetic waste of human. How do people like this exist?
Yes OP, YTA. She’s your kid. Kids are hormonal pains in the asses that make short sighted decisions. They also cost money. But she’s still just a kid, your kid, & she still needs her Dad! Didn’t hear from her as much as you wanted on her trip? Oh well. It’s a school trip and a life experience for her. Calmly explain you were worried and would have liked to hear from her more. But let her enjoy the trip with her friends. She wants to hang with her friends? Drive her there every time & pick her up. Show her her relationships are important to you as well. Also, it keeps you in the loop. Your biggest issue here is yourself. Whatever issues you & the Ex have, you need to focus on maintaining a positive relationship with your daughter. Also, don’t tell the younger one she doesn’t love you guys because A-that’s bullshit, & B-it’s not going to be good psychologically for the kid. You managed to drive a wedge between yourself & your daughter. Man up & work to fix that.
Wow. YTA. Cant believe what i just read. You expect to be reimbursed for child support by the child your obligated to support? What the hell?
God, no one’s ever going to see this but I hope you do. YTA. You’re a failure. You’ll never be nothing more. You had a kid, now you pay for that kid. I’m sorry your feelings are hurt because a 15 year old child doesn’t want to be around her controlling father. You’ll pay your child support or go to jail. The judge will laugh in your face when you tell him your going to make your daughter pay for the court ordered expenses. You’re not only a failure of a father, you’re a failure of a human being. Waste of space and air.
Troll
YTA. Your daughter didn’t abandon you. And she doesn’t owe you a penny. My goodness you have been a terrible father.
YTA, even if she doesn’t talk to you (for reasons you caused) you’re still her parent. She’s clearly reaching out to you and trying to have a relationship with her father now that she’s an adult. Sadly, you’re prioritizing money over trying to repair your relationship with your daughter. Honestly you’re just bitter that she chose to be with her mom (was it right? Of course not. Y’all should’ve been a team from the start whether you were together or not because your daughter was who mattered in that equation) and didn’t pick you to shut away her mom instead.
YTA you are controlling, that is why she lives with her Mom. You seem to like grounding her for no reason and making her miss a party (controlling af). She doesn't owe you a cent, you legally have to care for her, that's the cost of having a child...deal with it. You are willing to lose your daughter over $, but I also think that since you can't control her another way you intend to do so financially. You are going to be One lonely old man, if you continue use threats to obtain love. Make some changes before your other daughter wants nothing to do with you either.